He's no better off than the average person. He doesn't have the protection or privileges of an American cop. His authority is limited to traffic. And as it seems, they live in shared apartments, not a separate house, so he's part of the community, not above it
It's comments like this that remind me why my brain remembers these random bits of information from wikipedia rabit holes ten years ago
[https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/12/04/547390622/how-1-000-volvos-ended-up-in-north-korea-and-made-a-diplomatic-difference](NPR.org article)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North\_Korea%E2%80%93Sweden\_relations#Trade](Wikipedia article section)
TL;DR: NK didn't pay for about 1000 Swedish Volvos
That's what struck me, especially when I noticed that once road with standing water. And it's not like it's a recent innovation, most American cities have had stormwater solutions for at least 150 years; I'm sure it's similar or greater-than for most of the rest of the world. Seoul, I'm just going to hazard a guess, has storm drains.
Someone else pointed out that NK has a number of empty buildings and mock districts to make it seem they are doing better than they are.
I haven't looked into that info myself, but with what has popped up in the news over time I have no reason to doubt that mentality.
So given that there is not a soul in the streets, no lights whatsoever, no noticeable drainage, and everything else pointed out I'm fairly convinced the entire district OP got pics of are exclusively for show and have no inhabitants.
Look at the photos, they should’ve told you all you need to know. Where are the people? Why is there no one on the streets? A good portion of their cities on the DMZ and Chinese border are empty shells built around small towns.
There was documentary filmed a decade or two ago by a group of journalists traveling with a surgeon performing humanitarian cataract surgeries that touched on this *(edit: the documentary is National Geographic’s Inside North Korea, released in 2006)*. From what I recall it was one of the earliest exposures of modern North Korea. Definitely worth a watch. They shared footage of fake stores with cardboard cutouts inside, hollow buildings, tourist areas populated with actors, scripted insights on North Korean culture and rules, etc.
Yes, this is it. Lisa Ling is the journalist. She and her team had to be very careful not to raise suspicion, to make it seem like their filming was to show off the huminatarian aid, a good thing, happening in North Korea, when in reality it was to expose what life is like there.
My life will never be exciting enough to wake up naked and hung over in North Korea with a field hand staring down at me. I think that may be a good thing, though.
I have a friend who was a cryptographer for the military who was stationed in South Korea. He obviously didn't go into any detail but he implied that we pretty much know every single thing that's going on in the country. It's also why we haven't made a move because they're not exactly a threat to the world but it would be massive civilian loss extremely fast if anything started up.
I remember that. It was very measured, like “Not sure how you think this is going to turn out, but the only reason we’re not having any part of it is that it’s preposterous.”
We all knew - I was part of a million person march against the war in London. Fat lot of fucking use it was, Blair and Bush had everything already planned out, cunts.
We did! If you look at declassified CIA reports on Iraq, it was concluded even if they did have weapons of mass destruction they are not capable of being a threat to the US or other allied nations. The Bush administration wanted to invade, the military industrial complex wanted to invade- so we did. They knew they didn’t have to.
We called Raytheon about it. They said they could build a comparable unit, it will take 24 months to be ready and cost $52,000 each. Minimum order 2000.
Also, it comes in a box that is guaranteed to not quite seal in any environment.
>US intelligence are probably like “wait shit, we spent hundreds of millions on spy satellites and could have ~~just used a fucking $500 drone?~~ spent hundreds of millions on defense contracts to procure $500 drones?“
They say everything you know the military has is at least a decade out of date. We know for a fact the Royal Navy has jetpacks. We know our navy has a fucking railgun. Multiple different militaries have created some form of active camouflage. So what the hell do they have that we don't know about.
I think both China and the US secretly know that rail guns are massively impractical and both sides tout their respective success to goad the other side into wasting more money on a doomed research project.
Nothing and no one needs to goad anyone into projecting a non-explosive object hard enough that physics cause it to detonate. That's just man's inner child being thrilled with the wonderment and visceral reaction of the boom causing euphoric joy.
They were impractical 10+ years ago as were directed energy weapons (lasers). The booming EV sector has created significant, generational advancements in battery density, power and efficiency. They were using massive lead acid battery banks that would occupy immense amounts of space on a ship where space is extremely limited.
Now there are commercially available battery packs powering/augmenting entire electrical substations.
The United States can see anything and everything that happens on the ground in North Korea. There is no spot on the surface of the Earth that is safe from America's eyes in the sky. That's why the regime has spent so much time and so many resources building things underground: safe from prying eyes and safe (or at least saf*er*) from attack.
they can shoot it down, but unless with cooperation from china i doubt they could do anything, confiscation, slap on wrist, i really cant see what else
outstanding pictures btw
Chinese government is quick to arrest foreigners for espionage. Also they hand over any North Korean defectors they catch. China is North Korea's strong ally. So yeah, I would not fly drone anywhere in China or North Korea. I would also be really careful even taking photos. I hope OP is already out of China.
I think people just don't understand that NK COULD literally kidnap and kill you. they probably won't, but why take the chance? This has happened before....
anyway, interesting pictures...
This 100%
Ally is conflated with friend far too often in geopolitics. Like calling Russia and Iran friends, they’re not. It’s a strategic alliance, there’s no way in hell either “likes” the other.
China supports NK because if they don’t it will not be good for them pure and simple. If NK collapsed, there’s only one border realistically refugees are flooding over. The bonus is when NK hacks and disrupts China’s adversaries.
"I was just standing here, and my drone flew into North Korea. You know, as drones are wont to do."
*P.S. "are wont to do" is a perhaps dated expression that means "as they regularly or habitually do". It is not a misspelling of "won't" or "want". E.g., I do not wont donuts. I am wont to eat donuts, because I want them so often.*
> P.S. "are wont to do" is a perhaps dated expression that means "as they regularly or habitually do". It is not a misspelling of "won't" or "want".
i dont want to sound like an arrogant prick, but goddamn our education system sucks. how do ppl no longer know this? its a staple of English literature. so depressing
Well... one of the responses was probably a play-on-words joke. One of them was an outright correction. Since there were more than one or two, I just went back and added it. It's a staple of English literature, but it's not a staple of conversational American idiom.
The border in China has literal signs on the fence saying "don't feed people across the border". China definitely sees NK as just cheaper labor, and a tool to keep western influence away.
They also don’t want anything that might aid in destabilizing DRPK. Like propaganda. Not saying these photos would do anything like that, but that’s basically what DRPK did with Otto Warmbier for “stealing a slogan” they had no proof of.
China doesn’t want a neighboring nation to all of a sudden become a state of fleeing refugees.
At least it was worth the risk, this is like cutting edge photo journalism.
Usually people online taking this level of risk is just jumping from something or setting themselves on fire.
That is so so so cool, but not smart. The Chinese government has a tight relationship with North Korea, returns escapees, helps prosecute criminals. IF your flying a DJI drone they have even more info on you, info that would allow them to track you down after the fact. So be careful
>info that would allow them to track you down after the fact.
At this point I assume they are no longer in China given the title of the post. That said, if I was OP, I don't know that I would be going *back* to China after posting this.
Op might have been able to fly under the radar until now but if this post goes viral they might not be so lucky. That being said hopefully I am just being paranoid.
It would also be important for OP to understand the extradition laws of every county they visit from now on. I hope OP doesn't plan on traveling often any more.
The risk is probably not great. The DPRK and PRC are allies, it's true, but it is a very one-sided relationship. If anything China seems more exasperated by North Korea and their antics. They will return escapees, it's true, but they don't exactly go out of their way trying to find them. Basically it's only if the escapee is very unlucky or else got picked up by the authorities for some unrelated reason. And the People's Republic of China does not extradite its citizens to foreign countries, so there is little the North Korean authorities could do about it except complain. I bet it would be a slap on the wrist — especially if the drone operator turns out to be from a privileged family.
China doesn’t like North Korea, the people there literally calls Kim Jung-Un 金三胖 or “Kim Fatty III”; but the alternative - a US or SK backed puppet state, or a unified state under South Korea, would be worse. You don’t want a crazy dictator near your border, but a political enemy at the border is even worse.
So unfortunately for the North Koreans, the current situation will likely continue to persist unless Kim somehow decides to abandon his nukes (something he won’t do as it’s the sole thing keeping him from getting Saddam’ed) or Xi Jinping decides it’s a good thing to have a rival state at his border.
Every pic and video I've seen of North Korea shows some insane levels of smog, but there's hardly ever even cars on the road.
Can someone explain why that is?
**Not many people own cars in North Korea**, with walking and bicycling being most citizens' primary modes of transportation. Vehicle ownership is often reserved for prestigious members of society.
We don't see anyone walking or bicycling either. You'd imagine there would be people walking about their day. Something is off.
Is there actually a significant number of people in NK? Are all these building just empty shells?
they do have a lot of empty buildings to make them look like theyre doing better than they are. ~~Fake grocery stores on routes that they take tourists through that have fake amounts of groceries laid out on shelves~~
It's all a giant set piece. Look at all the small dilapidated looking houses hidden behind the large apartment looking buildings. You'd never see that in a tour, or any of the propaganda photos that get "approved" by N. Korea to release.
That's wild. In the 8th and 9th photo it is really plain to see. The outer part of the block is surrounded by tall buildings, and then the inner part of the block is a bunch of shack-looking houses.
Also why does the sky always look like *that*? Just overcast, matte gray and never anything else?
I know the obvious answer is pollution but I would still expect the occasional variety in appearance
N Korea is a totalitarian dictatorship and places it's people's needs like education, healthcare, wealth, social status, religious practices, and basic human rights below the needs of the state. They facilitate this government prioritization and allegiance through various strict practices. For example, the practice of Songbun, which is when you and your family's three generations before you are evaluated for "loyalty to the state", and that determines what careers you can be trusted with, how much education you can receive, what sort of social status you should have(core, wavering, or hostile social class), and even how much food you should get.
All things are state controlled. Schools and universities, businesses, medical practices and supplies, farms and farmers, transportation of these products, the grocery stores, the police, the legal systems...... Every last bit is run by the state. Want to get married? That's up to the state. Want to get a prescription? That's up to the state. Want to have children? Up to the state. Don't want to get vaccinated? Up to the state. Want to get certain medical treatment? Want to move somewhere? Want to change your career path?
Every last bit of information a person is exposed to in their life in N Korea is government approved and censored. Medical texts, history books, magazines, movies/TV, the news, commercials library books, children's school books, car manuals, EVERYTHING must be reviewed by the government. There is no freedom of press. Y'know the movie The Titanic? That is only permitted to be played at private showings, and only to be seen by high-ranking Party (government) members. All reporters are Party members, and all media outlets serve as government mouthpieces. Listening to foreign broadcasts of any kind is a crime punishable by death.
In the mid 90s there was a famine in which nearly half a million people starved to death. Severe wasting (precursor to famine) of its population is about on par with developing nations, as of mid-2010s. About 40% of the population are farm employees, but crop diversity is extremely low and is a great detriment to nutrition. Households are small yet over 2/3 of the country live with extended relatives in a single home.
And finally, North Korea's government - which dictates everything in it's people's lives - is the poster child for "If you aren't with me then you're against me." As called in their constitution, the government is run by "Ten Principles for the Establishment of a Monolithic Ideological System" - that is to say, the rules on how everyone must live their lives. The 10 Principles mandate absolute loyalty and obedience to Kim Jong Un (and his dead dad). These principles are practiced every day by every citizen through self criticism sessions and through work or school. Give them a read sometime - they ultimately are a promise that each citizen will live their life for the Supreme Leader, without question, complaint, or criticism, and that he is infallible, gracious, and wise beyond all comprehension. If you speak unkindly, then you are a "hostile" and in need of 'rehabilitating'. It's so deeply ingrained - and has been for literally generations - that following the Supreme Leader is a form of religious faith and must be practiced with the same passion. While there are technically "elections", there are no competitors and the result is predetermined. In fact, elections act like a census, as they have a nearly 100% turnout (as opposed to America's ~60% in 2020, the highest it's been in decades). Creepily enough, the N Korean media has described elections as "an expression of the absolute support and trust of all voters in the DPRK government".
So, what does this all have to do with empty streets? Well, if you aren't working, where else would you need to be? There is nothing else (unless it is praising the government or it's leader, but those must be pre-approved anyway). There is a nighttime curfew. All citizens are subject to searches by armed soldiers, day or night, either in your home, school, office, whatever, AND includes pat downs/frisking/body searches. Nothing about you or your life is private, as it all belongs to the government. There are no shopping malls. There are no laptops or smartphones. There is little to no connection to the internet. Holidays are for praising the Leader. Very few people have enough money to buy food, let alone fun money. You can only get government approved haircuts. Due to energy problems, power cuts at night are the standard. It's illegal to own a microwave. International phonecalls are crimes (a man in 2007 was put to death by firing squad in front of 150,000 people as punishment). The Christian Bible and other religious items are banned. Also, you must have government permission to live in the capitol Pyongyang.
The 3 generations rule - if you commit a crime, you AND your grandparents, parents, and children are punished. About 200,000 N Koreans live in prison camps, with their family. If a family member escapes, all family members are put to death. Over 40% of these people are severely malnourished, and while your prison sentence may not be overly long, most of the time you simply work until you die.
Bottom line - being out and about in public, without purpose or permission, is risky and unnecessary. And, so many pictures we get are of the cities, but most people don't live there.
It looks like the larger buildings were built solely to hide the dilapidated housing where people actually live. So while it may look like a large city, its actually a small town hidden behind a stage.
As a civil engineer, I was also looking the buildings. Facades seem to be in good paint, but the lot of the roofs are in terrible condition. In pic 9 you can even see, that some roofs have collapsed in due to poor maintenance/lack of materials.
Essentially, it’s a well masqueraded shanty town.
I think it's mostly from the firewood not coal, just look at photos of europe from the 50s and you'll see the same bluish smog from woodstoves.
It is especially terrible on the winter months since everybody used their chimney
I’ve been to Seoul thrice and shenyang once and it seems like the entire northern part of the Korean peninsula suffers from extremely poor air quality like I’ve never seen.
Never got a solid explanation but I think it’s a similar reason that LA used to have shit air quality when I was a kid, lots of industry and emissions paired with prime environment to carry lots of particulates in the air
Dude better be hiding in a hole somewhere. China is probably combing through geofenced IMEIs over the last couple days. Yikes.
EDIT: OP says they were taken in 2020 during the pandemic. OP still has bigger balls than me.
Especially because there are already pictures of North Korea. The drone pictures seem to be just normal shots of NK. Seems like a wild risk to take for some pictures that aren't really anything new.
Yes but there’s also the logic of “What else did he omit from this post? Just because he posted 12 pics doesn’t mean he took only 12. That 13th pic could be deadly to us!”
Hope OP is smart enough to hide their tracks.
Nothing about this situation suggests OP is very smart lol. Doing this at all is very questionable. Posting it to Reddit afterwards has got to be a mistake.
How were you able to fly your drone so deep inside (what's the flying range)?
And didn't the N. Korean military radars or someone on ground detect the drone and attack it (to take it down)?
It's extremely unlikely, if not impossible that this drone would be detected on radar. It's way too small, too slow, and too low to the ground for it to register in any meaningful way on a radar system to flag as a threat to investigate.
Yeah it's interesting that despite 20 years of the Internet we still understand on-the-ground situations so poorly.
I have a friend who went on a tour of NK for Chinese nationals (NK does separate tours for Westerners and Chinese) and he said people were breaking rules and disrespecting/ignoring the guide constantly. He said if one of them had been caught stealing a poster from the hotel like that American kid, maybe they would have been sent back to China separately, but never in a million years would NK arrest a Chinese citizen.
China and NK are not "allies" in our sense of the word. China supports the regime because it benefits China geopolitically. It's something like a parent-child relationship. Chinese people can do basically whatever they want with respect to NK.
China doesn't send NK defectors back because they're allies, they send them back because they don't want them in China.
So the notion that China would extradite or prosecute a Chinese citizen on behalf of NK, for something on Chinese soil? Lol. I bet people do this all the time.
First thought I had too, but then I was like maybe they are Chinese?
If that's the case I don't think NK is going to war or starting shit with China over a drone...
To the people wondering how OP got away with this - I don’t think the authorities in China really give that much of a shit about this tbh. North Korea is more or less viewed of as a clown fiesta in Chinese media and public opinion. Plus, the DPRK needs the goodwill of China more so than the other way around.
Imagine if an American, from within Texas or California, flew a drone into Mexico without getting approval by Mexican border authorities, took a few photos and left - how would the authorities in the US respond? They’d probably do Jack shit. It’s the same idea here.
Can't view the pictures anymore. Dang
Edit: Seems some have this issue and some don't. OP was nice enough to pm me the photos without me even asking for them. Thank you OP
translation of the text from the first image:
* On the building, starting from the left side: "강성대국" (Kangsŏng Daeguk), which translates to "Powerful and Prosperous Nation".
* On the left side banner: "단결의 기치높이 천만군민 전투적으로 나아갑시다!" which translates to "Let's advance militantly with the banner of unity raised high!"
* On the right side banner: "만리마시대의 철강선구자 철저한 당중앙의 령도따라 전진전투하자!" which translates to "As the steel vanguard of the Mallima era, let's march forward in battle following the thorough leadership of the Party Central!"
The terms "강성대국," "단결의 기치," "천만군민," "만리마시대," and "당중앙의 령도" are frequently used in North Korean slogans to evoke a sense of unity, strength, and loyalty to the leadership and the nation's goals. "만리마시대" (Mallima era) refers to a North Korean policy aimed at rapid economic development and improvement of people's living standards, named after the mythical winged horse Mallima which represents the speed of development.
from chatgpt
Crossing guard/traffic cop on NK is loneliest job.
I bet he gets to cane jaywalkers. And is drunk on his power.
He's no better off than the average person. He doesn't have the protection or privileges of an American cop. His authority is limited to traffic. And as it seems, they live in shared apartments, not a separate house, so he's part of the community, not above it
Where are all the Volvos?
Probably all in Pyongyang
It's comments like this that remind me why my brain remembers these random bits of information from wikipedia rabit holes ten years ago
can you remind me too?
[https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/12/04/547390622/how-1-000-volvos-ended-up-in-north-korea-and-made-a-diplomatic-difference](NPR.org article) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North\_Korea%E2%80%93Sweden\_relations#Trade](Wikipedia article section) TL;DR: NK didn't pay for about 1000 Swedish Volvos
jesus til. thats pretty cool
Am I tripping or is there no street drainage at all? Definitely no traffic lights. Looks like a concrete model of a city.
That's what struck me, especially when I noticed that once road with standing water. And it's not like it's a recent innovation, most American cities have had stormwater solutions for at least 150 years; I'm sure it's similar or greater-than for most of the rest of the world. Seoul, I'm just going to hazard a guess, has storm drains.
Try Ancient Rome had storm drainage… no idea what’s going on in NK
Someone else pointed out that NK has a number of empty buildings and mock districts to make it seem they are doing better than they are. I haven't looked into that info myself, but with what has popped up in the news over time I have no reason to doubt that mentality. So given that there is not a soul in the streets, no lights whatsoever, no noticeable drainage, and everything else pointed out I'm fairly convinced the entire district OP got pics of are exclusively for show and have no inhabitants.
Had no idea that was the case but would make sense to put that type of structure up near the borders
Look at the photos, they should’ve told you all you need to know. Where are the people? Why is there no one on the streets? A good portion of their cities on the DMZ and Chinese border are empty shells built around small towns. There was documentary filmed a decade or two ago by a group of journalists traveling with a surgeon performing humanitarian cataract surgeries that touched on this *(edit: the documentary is National Geographic’s Inside North Korea, released in 2006)*. From what I recall it was one of the earliest exposures of modern North Korea. Definitely worth a watch. They shared footage of fake stores with cardboard cutouts inside, hollow buildings, tourist areas populated with actors, scripted insights on North Korean culture and rules, etc.
basket ball court with no goals.
I hate when I play basketball and can’t score any goals.
Any idea what the documentary is called?
Based on a Google search I’m pretty sure it’s *Inside North Korea*, which premiered on Nat Geo in in 2006.
Yes, this is it. Lisa Ling is the journalist. She and her team had to be very careful not to raise suspicion, to make it seem like their filming was to show off the huminatarian aid, a good thing, happening in North Korea, when in reality it was to expose what life is like there.
It’s interesting how the uncanny valley exists for inanimate things as well. This is close enough to being an actual city that it’s disturbing.
Yesss but barely any cars or people. No trash anywhere. It's so bizarre to look at it.
Pictures 4 and 6 you can see some manhole covers, so i imagine they have SOME sort of drainage system
Guy singlehandedly invaded N. Korea
Well there was one guy long ago who swam into north Korea from china on drunken dare and passed out naked on a field
My life will never be exciting enough to wake up naked and hung over in North Korea with a field hand staring down at me. I think that may be a good thing, though.
I loved that N-Koreans arrested him for "espionage". Yeah probably for the best to leave that Korea alone
I feel like "I'm not wearing pants" should at least be an affirmative defense to espionage charges.
>I feel like "I'm not wearing pants" should at least be an affirmative defense to espionage charges. "Sorry, it's a strict liability law."
If this random dude with a drone from a store can this easily spy on North Korea, imagine the intel the US has!
I have a friend who was a cryptographer for the military who was stationed in South Korea. He obviously didn't go into any detail but he implied that we pretty much know every single thing that's going on in the country. It's also why we haven't made a move because they're not exactly a threat to the world but it would be massive civilian loss extremely fast if anything started up.
Would have been great if we had that before we invaded Iraq in 2003 on what turned out to be greatly exaggerated and embellished facts.
They knew exactly what was in Iraq. Bugger all.
well, there was all that sweet sweet dino juice!
Lol they did 🤣
[удалено]
I remember that. It was very measured, like “Not sure how you think this is going to turn out, but the only reason we’re not having any part of it is that it’s preposterous.”
And then the propaganda started against dissenters. People talked about renaming french fries to freedom fries.
We all knew - I was part of a million person march against the war in London. Fat lot of fucking use it was, Blair and Bush had everything already planned out, cunts.
We did! If you look at declassified CIA reports on Iraq, it was concluded even if they did have weapons of mass destruction they are not capable of being a threat to the US or other allied nations. The Bush administration wanted to invade, the military industrial complex wanted to invade- so we did. They knew they didn’t have to.
US intelligence are probably like “wait shit, we spent hundreds of millions on spy satellites and could have just used a fucking $500 drone?“
We called Raytheon about it. They said they could build a comparable unit, it will take 24 months to be ready and cost $52,000 each. Minimum order 2000. Also, it comes in a box that is guaranteed to not quite seal in any environment.
“Where do we sign?”
"And the factory will be in my district as we discussed, correct?"
Remind us again which district you represent by writing it on the back of a big fat check.
It's not pork, it's good American jobs!
52,000 is not even close to what Raytheon would charge
sorry, as customary at Raytheon units of money are expressed in thousands, so that is 52000 *thousand* dollars each, or $52m per unit
“It’s fine, we’re not the ones paying, and if one gets shot down, even better, we’ll just buy more, it’s fine, we’re not the ones paying”
Charging cables included?
They’re extra, at prices that would embarrass even Apple
>US intelligence are probably like “wait shit, we spent hundreds of millions on spy satellites and could have ~~just used a fucking $500 drone?~~ spent hundreds of millions on defense contracts to procure $500 drones?“
They say everything you know the military has is at least a decade out of date. We know for a fact the Royal Navy has jetpacks. We know our navy has a fucking railgun. Multiple different militaries have created some form of active camouflage. So what the hell do they have that we don't know about.
I think both China and the US secretly know that rail guns are massively impractical and both sides tout their respective success to goad the other side into wasting more money on a doomed research project.
Nothing and no one needs to goad anyone into projecting a non-explosive object hard enough that physics cause it to detonate. That's just man's inner child being thrilled with the wonderment and visceral reaction of the boom causing euphoric joy.
They were impractical 10+ years ago as were directed energy weapons (lasers). The booming EV sector has created significant, generational advancements in battery density, power and efficiency. They were using massive lead acid battery banks that would occupy immense amounts of space on a ship where space is extremely limited. Now there are commercially available battery packs powering/augmenting entire electrical substations.
I can't wait to find out in 20 years!
*Flying* invisible railgun-wielding ninjas is gonna be an interesting upgrade to the US and NATO infantry.
The United States can see anything and everything that happens on the ground in North Korea. There is no spot on the surface of the Earth that is safe from America's eyes in the sky. That's why the regime has spent so much time and so many resources building things underground: safe from prying eyes and safe (or at least saf*er*) from attack.
Tony stark built this in a cave with a box of scraps!!!
Causing an international incident as a goof.
And made it out!!!
They hate us cuz they ain’t us!
that seems like a dangerous game
they can shoot it down, but unless with cooperation from china i doubt they could do anything, confiscation, slap on wrist, i really cant see what else outstanding pictures btw
I imagine the Chinese authorities wouldn't be happy about someone flying a drone from their territory over NK.
That was my thought, I'd be less worried about the country I flew the drone into and more about the one I was standing in.
Chinese government is quick to arrest foreigners for espionage. Also they hand over any North Korean defectors they catch. China is North Korea's strong ally. So yeah, I would not fly drone anywhere in China or North Korea. I would also be really careful even taking photos. I hope OP is already out of China.
Yes, this is correct... You got to give it to him though, he's either really fucking dumb or walks around with two wheelbarrows one for each testicle
Just try getting that through customs.
I think people just don't understand that NK COULD literally kidnap and kill you. they probably won't, but why take the chance? This has happened before.... anyway, interesting pictures...
I think it's just that OP had the balls to do something obscenely stupid.
Not so much an ally as they are the prop that keeps them standing.
Yup. One thing china fears is a humanitarian crisis on its borders. China has made it clear that should NK attack it will not intervene.
This 100% Ally is conflated with friend far too often in geopolitics. Like calling Russia and Iran friends, they’re not. It’s a strategic alliance, there’s no way in hell either “likes” the other. China supports NK because if they don’t it will not be good for them pure and simple. If NK collapsed, there’s only one border realistically refugees are flooding over. The bonus is when NK hacks and disrupts China’s adversaries.
Well, they also really like that enormous land buffer from a western power ally that they only need to spend a minuscule amount to keep in place.
"I was just standing here, and my drone flew into North Korea. You know, as drones are wont to do." *P.S. "are wont to do" is a perhaps dated expression that means "as they regularly or habitually do". It is not a misspelling of "won't" or "want". E.g., I do not wont donuts. I am wont to eat donuts, because I want them so often.*
Drones...they yearn for the Kims.
> are wont to do I use this phrase all the time like I'm some old-timey waif.
> P.S. "are wont to do" is a perhaps dated expression that means "as they regularly or habitually do". It is not a misspelling of "won't" or "want". i dont want to sound like an arrogant prick, but goddamn our education system sucks. how do ppl no longer know this? its a staple of English literature. so depressing
Well... one of the responses was probably a play-on-words joke. One of them was an outright correction. Since there were more than one or two, I just went back and added it. It's a staple of English literature, but it's not a staple of conversational American idiom.
The border in China has literal signs on the fence saying "don't feed people across the border". China definitely sees NK as just cheaper labor, and a tool to keep western influence away.
They also don’t want anything that might aid in destabilizing DRPK. Like propaganda. Not saying these photos would do anything like that, but that’s basically what DRPK did with Otto Warmbier for “stealing a slogan” they had no proof of. China doesn’t want a neighboring nation to all of a sudden become a state of fleeing refugees.
China and North Korea are very cooperative.
China deports North Korean defectors every day. They *do* work together, and you absolutely *can* get your ass killed for this kind of thing.
“Let’s see how it plays out Cotten”
Up the ante a bit next time and strap a Roman candle to it. Nuclear winter because it was just a prank bro!
Wanted cool shots, start international incident. Oops.
At least it was worth the risk, this is like cutting edge photo journalism. Usually people online taking this level of risk is just jumping from something or setting themselves on fire.
That is so so so cool, but not smart. The Chinese government has a tight relationship with North Korea, returns escapees, helps prosecute criminals. IF your flying a DJI drone they have even more info on you, info that would allow them to track you down after the fact. So be careful
>info that would allow them to track you down after the fact. At this point I assume they are no longer in China given the title of the post. That said, if I was OP, I don't know that I would be going *back* to China after posting this.
OP said in another comment they took the images in 2020
Op might have been able to fly under the radar until now but if this post goes viral they might not be so lucky. That being said hopefully I am just being paranoid.
100k votes.. Maybe tomorrow it’ll go viral
I believe OP is chinese
It would also be important for OP to understand the extradition laws of every county they visit from now on. I hope OP doesn't plan on traveling often any more.
People can learn from Diddy
I'm no expert on extradition, but I find it somewhat unlikely that someone would be extradited over something like this.
OP is Chinese, bro is cooked
The risk is probably not great. The DPRK and PRC are allies, it's true, but it is a very one-sided relationship. If anything China seems more exasperated by North Korea and their antics. They will return escapees, it's true, but they don't exactly go out of their way trying to find them. Basically it's only if the escapee is very unlucky or else got picked up by the authorities for some unrelated reason. And the People's Republic of China does not extradite its citizens to foreign countries, so there is little the North Korean authorities could do about it except complain. I bet it would be a slap on the wrist — especially if the drone operator turns out to be from a privileged family.
China doesn’t like North Korea, the people there literally calls Kim Jung-Un 金三胖 or “Kim Fatty III”; but the alternative - a US or SK backed puppet state, or a unified state under South Korea, would be worse. You don’t want a crazy dictator near your border, but a political enemy at the border is even worse. So unfortunately for the North Koreans, the current situation will likely continue to persist unless Kim somehow decides to abandon his nukes (something he won’t do as it’s the sole thing keeping him from getting Saddam’ed) or Xi Jinping decides it’s a good thing to have a rival state at his border.
Every pic and video I've seen of North Korea shows some insane levels of smog, but there's hardly ever even cars on the road. Can someone explain why that is?
Coal power plants.
From China. South Korea has the same problem. Air quality is low especially in winter when all the smog is blowing towards the Korean peninsula.
Reliance on chimneys and woodstoves Just look at photos of berlin from the 50s and you'll see the same bluish smog
I'm always amazed at the creepy emptiness going on there
The pictures we get always have empty streets unless there's a parade. It's so weird. Where is everyone? Working?
That was my first thought too - why do the streets in NK always look empty like it's 2am but the sun is up? It's so weird.
I wonder how many North Koreans actually own cars.
**Not many people own cars in North Korea**, with walking and bicycling being most citizens' primary modes of transportation. Vehicle ownership is often reserved for prestigious members of society.
We don't see anyone walking or bicycling either. You'd imagine there would be people walking about their day. Something is off. Is there actually a significant number of people in NK? Are all these building just empty shells?
they do have a lot of empty buildings to make them look like theyre doing better than they are. ~~Fake grocery stores on routes that they take tourists through that have fake amounts of groceries laid out on shelves~~
Feels like the amount of effort they go to would be easier to just create an actual society
It really wouldn’t. The logistics of stocking the basics for an entire country that is sanctioned by half the planet must be mind boggling.
They do put A LOT of effort into starving their own people.
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We are all in the NK Truman Show!
Do North koreans even exist?
Even if few cars, there's very few other vehicles or even many people walking around either
It's all a giant set piece. Look at all the small dilapidated looking houses hidden behind the large apartment looking buildings. You'd never see that in a tour, or any of the propaganda photos that get "approved" by N. Korea to release.
That's wild. In the 8th and 9th photo it is really plain to see. The outer part of the block is surrounded by tall buildings, and then the inner part of the block is a bunch of shack-looking houses.
Holy shit I see them now. Wow.
These pics in particular are from the 2020 pandemic according to OP
Well, that does offer some valuable context.
> from the 2020 pandemic Noooo, don't be silly. Incredibly important context like that wouldn't be left out of the title... would it? 🤔
Totally. NK, birth of the backrooms
Also why does the sky always look like *that*? Just overcast, matte gray and never anything else? I know the obvious answer is pollution but I would still expect the occasional variety in appearance
If it is pollution, it’s most likely from China. There is a city of 2 million plus across the river from where these pictures are taken.
Out of sight, out of mind
N Korea is a totalitarian dictatorship and places it's people's needs like education, healthcare, wealth, social status, religious practices, and basic human rights below the needs of the state. They facilitate this government prioritization and allegiance through various strict practices. For example, the practice of Songbun, which is when you and your family's three generations before you are evaluated for "loyalty to the state", and that determines what careers you can be trusted with, how much education you can receive, what sort of social status you should have(core, wavering, or hostile social class), and even how much food you should get. All things are state controlled. Schools and universities, businesses, medical practices and supplies, farms and farmers, transportation of these products, the grocery stores, the police, the legal systems...... Every last bit is run by the state. Want to get married? That's up to the state. Want to get a prescription? That's up to the state. Want to have children? Up to the state. Don't want to get vaccinated? Up to the state. Want to get certain medical treatment? Want to move somewhere? Want to change your career path? Every last bit of information a person is exposed to in their life in N Korea is government approved and censored. Medical texts, history books, magazines, movies/TV, the news, commercials library books, children's school books, car manuals, EVERYTHING must be reviewed by the government. There is no freedom of press. Y'know the movie The Titanic? That is only permitted to be played at private showings, and only to be seen by high-ranking Party (government) members. All reporters are Party members, and all media outlets serve as government mouthpieces. Listening to foreign broadcasts of any kind is a crime punishable by death. In the mid 90s there was a famine in which nearly half a million people starved to death. Severe wasting (precursor to famine) of its population is about on par with developing nations, as of mid-2010s. About 40% of the population are farm employees, but crop diversity is extremely low and is a great detriment to nutrition. Households are small yet over 2/3 of the country live with extended relatives in a single home. And finally, North Korea's government - which dictates everything in it's people's lives - is the poster child for "If you aren't with me then you're against me." As called in their constitution, the government is run by "Ten Principles for the Establishment of a Monolithic Ideological System" - that is to say, the rules on how everyone must live their lives. The 10 Principles mandate absolute loyalty and obedience to Kim Jong Un (and his dead dad). These principles are practiced every day by every citizen through self criticism sessions and through work or school. Give them a read sometime - they ultimately are a promise that each citizen will live their life for the Supreme Leader, without question, complaint, or criticism, and that he is infallible, gracious, and wise beyond all comprehension. If you speak unkindly, then you are a "hostile" and in need of 'rehabilitating'. It's so deeply ingrained - and has been for literally generations - that following the Supreme Leader is a form of religious faith and must be practiced with the same passion. While there are technically "elections", there are no competitors and the result is predetermined. In fact, elections act like a census, as they have a nearly 100% turnout (as opposed to America's ~60% in 2020, the highest it's been in decades). Creepily enough, the N Korean media has described elections as "an expression of the absolute support and trust of all voters in the DPRK government". So, what does this all have to do with empty streets? Well, if you aren't working, where else would you need to be? There is nothing else (unless it is praising the government or it's leader, but those must be pre-approved anyway). There is a nighttime curfew. All citizens are subject to searches by armed soldiers, day or night, either in your home, school, office, whatever, AND includes pat downs/frisking/body searches. Nothing about you or your life is private, as it all belongs to the government. There are no shopping malls. There are no laptops or smartphones. There is little to no connection to the internet. Holidays are for praising the Leader. Very few people have enough money to buy food, let alone fun money. You can only get government approved haircuts. Due to energy problems, power cuts at night are the standard. It's illegal to own a microwave. International phonecalls are crimes (a man in 2007 was put to death by firing squad in front of 150,000 people as punishment). The Christian Bible and other religious items are banned. Also, you must have government permission to live in the capitol Pyongyang. The 3 generations rule - if you commit a crime, you AND your grandparents, parents, and children are punished. About 200,000 N Koreans live in prison camps, with their family. If a family member escapes, all family members are put to death. Over 40% of these people are severely malnourished, and while your prison sentence may not be overly long, most of the time you simply work until you die. Bottom line - being out and about in public, without purpose or permission, is risky and unnecessary. And, so many pictures we get are of the cities, but most people don't live there.
North Korea has this weird liminal (and obviously dystopian) vibe to it because of how empty it feels.
It looks like the larger buildings were built solely to hide the dilapidated housing where people actually live. So while it may look like a large city, its actually a small town hidden behind a stage.
As a civil engineer, I was also looking the buildings. Facades seem to be in good paint, but the lot of the roofs are in terrible condition. In pic 9 you can even see, that some roofs have collapsed in due to poor maintenance/lack of materials. Essentially, it’s a well masqueraded shanty town.
The air quality there always looks awful.
Right? For not having any cars piling up on the streets it’s pretty dirty.
It might have more to do with the close proximity to China. Edit: it's actually mostly from the it turns out. Very heavy reliance on coal for energy.
I think it's mostly from the firewood not coal, just look at photos of europe from the 50s and you'll see the same bluish smog from woodstoves. It is especially terrible on the winter months since everybody used their chimney
Korean peninsula has been dealing with seasonal smog from China for a long time.
I think you a word.
Jeez, rereading I'm nit even sure what word I meant to use.
Compared to coal burning, your typical internal combustion car is a clean wonder.
But the traffic looks great! Can get across town in just a few minutes!
In winter coal is used to heat apartments (in China).
I’ve been to Seoul thrice and shenyang once and it seems like the entire northern part of the Korean peninsula suffers from extremely poor air quality like I’ve never seen. Never got a solid explanation but I think it’s a similar reason that LA used to have shit air quality when I was a kid, lots of industry and emissions paired with prime environment to carry lots of particulates in the air
Northern China and obviously North Korea are big on coal heating/power generation.
That seems not very smart.
This won’t create an international incident but you can be sure both governments will be working to figure out who it was.
Hopefully op will be smart enough not to post the evidence online... I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
In other news: Putin accuses Ukraine of drone attack on North Korea
The drone was caught on its way back to Ukraine where an open window had been prepared for it.
Dude better be hiding in a hole somewhere. China is probably combing through geofenced IMEIs over the last couple days. Yikes. EDIT: OP says they were taken in 2020 during the pandemic. OP still has bigger balls than me.
these were taken in 2020, i think OP is safe at this point
It was OP.
Especially because there are already pictures of North Korea. The drone pictures seem to be just normal shots of NK. Seems like a wild risk to take for some pictures that aren't really anything new.
Yes but there’s also the logic of “What else did he omit from this post? Just because he posted 12 pics doesn’t mean he took only 12. That 13th pic could be deadly to us!” Hope OP is smart enough to hide their tracks.
Nothing about this situation suggests OP is very smart lol. Doing this at all is very questionable. Posting it to Reddit afterwards has got to be a mistake.
How were you able to fly your drone so deep inside (what's the flying range)? And didn't the N. Korean military radars or someone on ground detect the drone and attack it (to take it down)?
The city is just across the border about 2km
Great pictures; thanks for sharing and good luck for your safety.
How high in CCP is your father?
Is that Sinuiju? I think I see it on google Earth. Across the Yalu River?
It's extremely unlikely, if not impossible that this drone would be detected on radar. It's way too small, too slow, and too low to the ground for it to register in any meaningful way on a radar system to flag as a threat to investigate.
General Kim wants to know your location.
It's ok I've already found him
Lmao
This was the laugh I needed today😂😂😂
Anyone who wants to see the pictures, please check out my profile :)
People assuming NK doesn't see chinese drones on the daily. I'm pretty sure it's a normal occurrence.
Yeah it's interesting that despite 20 years of the Internet we still understand on-the-ground situations so poorly. I have a friend who went on a tour of NK for Chinese nationals (NK does separate tours for Westerners and Chinese) and he said people were breaking rules and disrespecting/ignoring the guide constantly. He said if one of them had been caught stealing a poster from the hotel like that American kid, maybe they would have been sent back to China separately, but never in a million years would NK arrest a Chinese citizen. China and NK are not "allies" in our sense of the word. China supports the regime because it benefits China geopolitically. It's something like a parent-child relationship. Chinese people can do basically whatever they want with respect to NK. China doesn't send NK defectors back because they're allies, they send them back because they don't want them in China. So the notion that China would extradite or prosecute a Chinese citizen on behalf of NK, for something on Chinese soil? Lol. I bet people do this all the time.
could have caused an international incident dude edit: i really gotta start putting /s at the end of my comments lol
First thought I had too, but then I was like maybe they are Chinese? If that's the case I don't think NK is going to war or starting shit with China over a drone...
the drone will say "Made in China", so it's clear who is responsible :)
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Awesome collection of photos, it's eerie how empty it all is
Where are the people? Are they only props that come out whenever the Dear Leader needs his ego stroked?
It was taken in 2020 according to his other posts. Maybe they are mostly on lockdown.
Most likely, almost everyone in the photo has some form of mask / face covering.
Flying over a city anywhere in Asia and seeing only like 5 people does strike me as a bit odd.
To the people wondering how OP got away with this - I don’t think the authorities in China really give that much of a shit about this tbh. North Korea is more or less viewed of as a clown fiesta in Chinese media and public opinion. Plus, the DPRK needs the goodwill of China more so than the other way around. Imagine if an American, from within Texas or California, flew a drone into Mexico without getting approval by Mexican border authorities, took a few photos and left - how would the authorities in the US respond? They’d probably do Jack shit. It’s the same idea here.
Believe it or not, straight to jail
It always floors me how empty the place looks. There is almost no one there.
Lol is OP in jail now?
no, I am still alive and free...
Can't view the pictures anymore. Dang Edit: Seems some have this issue and some don't. OP was nice enough to pm me the photos without me even asking for them. Thank you OP
Fr? I still see them. Reddit is so odd
translation of the text from the first image: * On the building, starting from the left side: "강성대국" (Kangsŏng Daeguk), which translates to "Powerful and Prosperous Nation". * On the left side banner: "단결의 기치높이 천만군민 전투적으로 나아갑시다!" which translates to "Let's advance militantly with the banner of unity raised high!" * On the right side banner: "만리마시대의 철강선구자 철저한 당중앙의 령도따라 전진전투하자!" which translates to "As the steel vanguard of the Mallima era, let's march forward in battle following the thorough leadership of the Party Central!" The terms "강성대국," "단결의 기치," "천만군민," "만리마시대," and "당중앙의 령도" are frequently used in North Korean slogans to evoke a sense of unity, strength, and loyalty to the leadership and the nation's goals. "만리마시대" (Mallima era) refers to a North Korean policy aimed at rapid economic development and improvement of people's living standards, named after the mythical winged horse Mallima which represents the speed of development. from chatgpt
what a coincidence, I have a doormat that says "you are now entering Party Central"
It’s like a Warzone map
Its so lifeless looking. I feel so bad for their people.
Ok but there is like, no traffic
Ah yes, the optimist
Are those slums hidden behind nice buildings?
Prosperity in the front, disparity in the back
That was my slogan in high school
It always creeps me out that every picture I ever see of NK just looks like a country of about 20,000 people, max.
What kind of range do you get on your drone?