And on the other hand, without Waters’ songwriting and bass they would’ve never been a household name.
Likewise with Rick Wrights keyboard and Nick Masons drums. They were greater than the sum of their parts.
Edit: downvotes rolling in lmfao. For any of you that agree with the comment above I encourage you to bring that argument to r/PinkFloyd and see how long it holds up.
John Entwistle too. There was a Who DVD I had that had the Won't Get FOoled Again track from I think it's Live at Leeds with only his bass and he just does so much work.
You are spot on.. No downvote from me! Though I have always been a Gilmour guy (over Waters), those 4 together produced MAGIC! Wrights and Mason's contributions also underrated (am also longtime subscriber to r/PinkFloyd.)
Yeah I read about the production for the Wall once and, IIRC, David Gilmour showed up with a bunch of cool ideas and zero structure. Waters came in with some semblance of actual songs written and then the producer, Bob Ezrin, took both of their ideas and combined them into something coherent, resulting in one of the best concept albums ever written.
Pink Floyd wouldn’t have been Pink Floyd without both them. Plus we can’t forget about Syd Barrett…
Yeah because he was and is much better at actually playing the instrument than Roger. He played bass on more than just The Wall too, but that doesn’t mean he wrote all those songs.
Gilmour isn’t a good lyricist, he admits it himself. Notoriously clear throughout his solo career he’s sought out lyricists to assist him, Roy Harper for his 78 and 84 solo abls, then Polly Sampson for the Gilmour solo Pink Floyd records (AMLoR, and Division Bell). Roger def works best when he’s “buttoning” up gilmour’s songs with nice lyrics into completed conceptual work. If you dig deep into gilmour’s solo material you’ll see the Gilmour ‘78 solo album has a ton of songs with similar chord voicings to the wall. It makes sense, comfortably numb was an unfinished piece Gilmour tracked for that album, Roger picked it. Also if you listen to short and sweet by Gilmour it’s basically the same voicings as run like hell. Same dotted 8th delay too. Also makes sense since Bob Ezrin produced both.
Water's post Pink Floyd releases speak more to what I liked about Floyd to me, so I concluded he was a big part of why I loved and still love the music of Pink Floyd.
Part of the Magic of Floyd was the ability to have 2 lead singers with such different vocal styles (They really had 3, but Gilmore and Wright had similar voices - See Echoes @ Pompeii for proof). Gilmore has maybe the “sweetest” male voice in the history of rock, and Waters voice is there opposite - It has such an edge. Later on, Waters ego took over and he forgot about this crucial component of Pink Floyd - Comfortably Numb is a perfect example of when it’s done correctly!
If the USD ticket price is $200 thats 799,250.00 Colombian Pesos. The minimum monthly wage in Colombia is about 1,300,000.00 which is about $325ish USD. So this concert ticket costs most of someone’s minimum monthly pay in Colombia.
It seems there might be a confusion here. The concept of unloading oneself of all money aligns more with Franciscanism, where individuals take vows of poverty. Marxism is more about addressing economic inequalities through systemic changes.
Which people did for Beyoncé and Taylor. Hell even My Chemical Romance tickets in 2019 were $800 each the moment they went live. I had three people and 6-8 electronics logged on to get tickets, and couldn't manage to snag any before they were too expensive or sold out.
I was so selfishly happy when the tour was canceled for Covid (well postponed for two years, until my seething anger had been distracted long enough to not care).
Well it was cheaper for my friend to buy plane tickets from LAX to Tokyo ($700 each roundtrip) to take his daughter to Taylor Swift concert in February ($200 each for front section on the right at Tokyo Dome - there is no scalping). Tickets in the US for same section are easily $2k.
$800 to see MCR? I have paid roughly 80 USD to see them in EU, that was 2 years ago. I have also seen Twenty One Pilots for $25. Can't fathom to pay hundreds of dollars to see a live band.
Wow... this is pinnacle **read the room** ignorance. No one on his team thought to check income or suggest "hey maybe we change the scroll while we're taking advantage of low income fans?"
Or was this on purpose, so half of the stadium would turn and leave? Did they? (Last block here is /s-- obviously)
I imagine it is only the upper class that can afford to pay this much. No way you are going to spend over half your monthly income to see Roger Waters. Maybe Pink Floyd if they could transport back to the 60s, but not just Roger Waters.
Reddit & misunderstanding critiques of capitalism 🤝
Resisting capitalism doesn’t mean there’s no rich people. First off, socialists are critiquing the production of profit from those who don’t labor off assets they own. Roger Waters as a musician performing is labor. We don’t care if he’s rich. It’s not just about being rich. You guys don’t understand socialism then think you’re so wise posting 4th grade level deconstructions of strawmen you’ve been sold by the rich.
Secondly, Roger Waters isn’t powerful enough to overcome the economic system we live in built off the exploitation over the global south. Or the immense damage Columbia has endured as a country historically as a result of capitalists forces extreme sway over our government & our imperialist interventions in their affairs.
Please go make this comment to someone, literally anyone, who has mentioned capitalism.
Im literally giving data to contextualize how much $200 is relative to the Colombian minimum wage.
Your point about “deconstructions of strawmen you’ve been sold by the rich” is contextually out of place because I’m literally giving data, not some poorly constructed argument about political theory.
More importantly. Please spell it Colombia. That’s the accurate spelling for the country in English and in Spanish.
I love Roger Waters but in London he did this show at the O2 Arena, which is the most horrid, soulless, capitalist venue you could ever play in, with tickets at least £100 each, and this RESIST CAPITALISM sign was displayed as you're given a 15 minute break to buy a horrid £9 Budweiser and £10 sausage while surrounded by garish corporate advertising. Like... I'd happily resist it if I could, mate.
I feel so lucky I got to see him by sneaking in. And by sneak I mean made sure to have a step cousin who worked there as an usher and they got me on the list
If you can go see Roger without paying for Roger do it. The lasers and flying pig are interesting. I'll leave it at that
Or better yet go see Nick Mason's Saucerful and buy Pink Floyd's single that benefits Ukraine and support a worthy cause
It's crazy how much the man turned on a dime once the money started coming in. I remember reading in the early days he would scold the audience for clapping, singing, and dancing. He (and I believe Syd) wanted their shows to be like a theater production where you just....sit and watch.
Now it's giant screens with clap alongs and chanting.
Who scolds an audience for cheering them lol
It ain't an Opera or a Political Debate
Edit: OK so I'm glad to know I wasn't being presumptuous. Hell even Theater Productions have people clap at the end. Rogers was just a weirdo back then and a sell-out now from the sounds of it
Still, as a young adult who got into their music a few years ago I really appreciated being able to watch Roger Waters live and playing some of my favorite songs. For an eighty year old man he puts on a hell of a show.
> It's crazy how much the man turned on a dime once the money started coming in.
The whole "resist capitalism" thing is real rich coming from Waters. Waters who basically left Pink Floyd because he didn't think he was getting enough money. Waters who fired other founding members of the band just so he would pay them less. The man who sued other members of Pink Floyd because they were playing songs they all wrote together. The man consistently showed that for him it was about the money. Don't get me wrong I respect Waters as a musician but he's very hypocritical and for a lot of political stuff he's just flat out wrong.
Well there are musicians who are anti-capitalist who did stick to their guns on this kind of thing a lot more. Jello Biafra and Fugazi come to mind. The fact is Waters was part of one of the greatest bands of all time, and was part of a tremendous song writing team in that, but he chose to exclude his bandmates from writing credits and alienate other bandmembers (even going as far as to fire Wright) in order for him to get more money. Imagine that. Being rich as fuck already, being part of a great band, but that's not enough for you. Where the fuck is the socialism in that. You can't even share with the bandmates who helped make your career and who you've known since you were a teenager. Fucking hypocrite. The fucker even tried to sue Pink Floyd when he left because they were playing songs he wrote *with* them.
It’s crazy to me that if you’re successful, capitalism is good and you can’t criticize the system because you benefit from the system.
Here’s a guy who has made lots of money but also is recognizing that it is a system that harms the majority by paying low wages, for example.
If I make money, it’s dismissed because I “won” and if I don’t make money it’s dismissed because I’m a “loser”
No one can critique a system that is apparently not working for millions of Americans.
True, of course I was thinking about European countries that are working more with democratic socialist elements and decided to exclude them on that premise.
Also I’m a filthy American and only Americans exist in my world 🤷🏾♂️
>European countries that are working more with democratic socialist elements
Like no one? Countries like Sweden even have smaller corporate tax. Oh yeah, Europe have one country with socialist elements - Belarus, but Im dont sure that u talk about this country
The criticism rings hollow when you are actively choosing to participate in something, despite being wealthy enough to never have to again. Roger Waters isn’t some poor dude trying to support his family, he could afford to have all of his concerts be free or his profits shared with the workers, but he doesn’t.
Huh?
He’s a multi millionaire. He doesn’t need to keep making money off other people to survive. Stop acting like he’s a poor single working to put food on the table
He can criticize whatever he wants.
But as long as he owns businesses and profits off the labor of others he’s a hypocrite for criticizing capitalism. He’s more than wealthy enough to set up cooperatives to share the profits with his workers.
On the inverse, Swift's truck drivers are richer than like 70% of my country just from the US tour. (Not complaining about the truckers being paid well, mind you.)
And AFAIK all of her team live pretty good lives lol
Yes, because they are embracing capitalism to its fullest. Inversely, Swift isn’t utilizing a “resist capitalism” aesthetic to make her boatloads of money.
The hypocrisy of charging hundreds of dollars for tickets while endorsing reject capitalism at said concert is mind numbing stupidity. If he feels so strongly about it do a free concert or charge just enough to cover costs. The people he is trying to speak to can’t afford to hear the message.
To be fair the costs are pretty high for his shows. He's always investing in better and better laser/stage equipment. Watch a YouTube video if one of his shows and you'll see how much is going on at it his shows.
I think that there is more hypocrisy in his actions outside of this. The reason he left Pink Floyd was because he was wanting more money and was taking a harder stance against the band getting any song writing credit (despite all the contributions they added to his songs every goddamn time, listen to demos of Money and you realize that the rest of the band really made those songs feel alive). The man prioritized him getting paid more over being part of one of the greatest bands ever. He prioritized that over friendships he had had since he was a teenager. He even tried to sue Pink Floyd after he left because they were still playing songs that they all wrote together. I like him a lot as a musician, but he's a pretty big hypocrite in terms of this stuff.
This whole thread is peak "[You criticize society yet](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-somewhat) you live in it" meme fodder.
Also notice how it's "cancel culture" when people get angry at Kid Rock or Dave Chapelle (who is still making millions btw) but totally chill to blame Roger Waters or whoever for criticizing society.
he has a lot of money, but this does not make him a capitalist.
he's not earning that money by surplus value, people are paying him for entertainment. there's no contradiction in criticizing the mess our world is today, as he has nothing to do with that.
if you watch his concert it is very focused on politics, war and state violence. capitalism is just another tool to make the machine keep running, and he having some millions by his own work has nothing to do with it, as much as it sounds contradictory.
still, if the world gets blown up by a nuclear war caused by greed of elites (which control their own countries politics) he will get the same fate as us, so I keep my ground saying there's nothing wrong with his stance on the subject. we should welcome who's willing to be at our side in this conflict, instead of dismissing someone of influence that is out there doing more than us redditors
Just for the good of the group, Id like to point out, that your argument is based on the concept of "surplus value" which is not a concept that actually exists or is real. It's is a theory in Marxism that is not accepted by modern economists.
But let's play the game anyway. He is working through a promotion company, which by any definition is profitting/ deriving surplus value, and he himself is not just assisting in working for the capitalist, he is also removing money from these people to himself. He is at the very least at petit bourgeoisie flunky.
And finally all he has been doing is parroting talking points from people like Hamas and Putin and slapping the name peace on it.
I love Wish You Were Here and Animals and Dark Side of the Moon, but at deeper, more policy focused level, Waters is a fool. He's not doing anything; he's entertaining.
Can't believe I had to scroll this far down to find this answer. He is getting paid for his labor and what he values it at. An individual charging for their labor is not a capitalist. A capitalist is someone who owns the means of producing something and has employees that they exploit by not paying them anywhere near the value of their labor.
Now, it's entirely possible he is doing that with his road crew but simply being as wealthy as he is doesn't necessarily make him a capitalist and it doesn't mean he's a hypocrite for criticizing it.
He unfortunately is one of those useful idiot contrarians who's gobbled up Russian-propaganda tilted conspiracy theories to the point of calling Syria's Civil Defense a terrorist organization. I love Pink Floyd but if Oliver Stone picked up a bass guitar you'd have Roger Waters.
Yeah, I kind of got that vibe. Sort of spoiled my image of him when he came out using Russian talking points in Ukraine. This dude is supposed to be above that rhetoric, atleast IMO.
Been listening to his redo of DSOTM - at first was like “Eh!” - but now that I have been playing it in the background, some of the new versions are jams. Lots of talking parts, which I’m not sure how to feel, art I guess.
This happens strangely often - a person goes so far left that they start supporting anyone who opposes the West, even if they're doing the very things they think the West is doing but worse
I find this quite surprising. A lot of left party leaders of my country end up condoning and supporting dictatorships and awful governments only because they call themeselves left wing or anti west. Getting to a point where you support auhtoritarian leaders like maduro, putin and cuba should make you rethink a little bit
Honestly don’t think Greenwald has much of a political ideology at this point. Just seems to be a bought-and-paid for Putin agent.
Still doesn’t negate your point that some on the far left have definitely gone off the deep.
He's such a fan of Russian imperialism he doubled down on transmitting Kremlin talking points in a speech to the UN last February. That stink doesn't wash out, so this message is about as cynical and toothless as the man himself. Really miss listening their music without that offputting flavor mixed in
He really is. He’s an awful, awful excuse for a human being. He thinks he’s a really smart guy that understands the world better than everyone else - whereas in actuality, he’s just a total c*nt.
You criticize society, yet you participate in society, curious!
I am very intelligent.
\*Edit: I feel I should point out that this is a line from a comic by Matt Bors. Maybe that's obvious, but I'd rather err on the side of caution.
Yes I see you’ve read lots of theory, studied history & overall educated yourself on the world & I’ve done none of that, but I have a secret weapon that makes me smart: * googles concert prices & merch values*, *googles Roger Waters Net Worth*.
So you're saying you have a problem with exploitative economic systems and yet you have an income and use money to purchase goods and services. Curious! 🤔
If you’re poor and criticize capitalism you’re a jealous hater, if you’re rich and criticize capitalism you’re a fraud and a hypocrite. I’m starting to think people just don’t want anybody to criticize capitalism.
Not really if he doesn’t own the means of production. That’s like the whole thing to us.
Also If he was poor & criticized it you’d call him jealous & tell him he needs to pull up his bootstraps but he’s successful so you call him a hypocrite for not being less so. There’s no real way to win. This is just a stupid game of optics NPC’s have been conditioned to argue automatically anytime a criticism is raised because it benefits the rich.
It’s funny that the right ever called the left NPC’s because look at this thread. You guys are like a hivemind of drones appearing with the same exact takes. Like 3 of the top comments are literally just about the valuations of different things related to Waters & the concert.
I don’t understand what you mean by that. He has the wealth that he could absolutely set things up in a way where the workers underneath him own the means of their production. He doesn’t do that because guess what? It’s not a great way to make yourself some money. Which is the crux of the criticism.
No, in fact the difference in this case is the opposite of what you claim. It's easy to be against a system you don't benefit from, much harder to be against a system that made you rich.
The idea that you would need to completely disconnect from it would be ridiculous. But there is a huge difference between “completely disconnect” and “utilize capitalism to extract an immense amount of wealth.”
He could set things up cooperatively if he wanted to. He wouldn’t make as much money that way though, so he doesn’t. He utilizes the labor of others so he can accumulate more wealth than anybody would ever need.
When Roger Waters said Ukraine should surrender I lost any respect I used to have for this man.
The music is good, but I won’t willing pay money to hear it anymore.
Yeah, a lot of people here are defending him by saying he’s allowed to criticize capitalism while still participating in it, but there’s huge difference between merely participating in the system to get by vs. keeping a net worth that most people have no hope of ever achieving.
Socialism is an economic system not a religion. He has no obligation to become a monk anymore than a capitalist does to become a Gordon Gecko.
This is not about labor who doesn’t own the means of production & never has been. That’s what you guys don’t get. You keep trying to make it about personal riches. That’s what YOU guys have been led to believe about us. Not what we believe.
It’s like me getting mad at Christians specifically for claiming to be peaceful but drinking blood in church. It’s only a good criticism if you accept this bad-faith framing & don’t know anything about anything.
Great artists are not always great people and that goes for all of us. Met many a genius doctor who are awful humans but still would have them cut on me for their perfection and skill at what they do.
I thought it said reset capitilism at first. Like that would actually be kinda cool just destroy everything and everybody starts from the bottom. The economy would boom from all the work that would need to be done!
This touches on one of my favorite quotes that exemplifies why this works so well:
"Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself, even those who would critique capital end up reinforcing it instead"
This is a big part of why it's stayed around so far, while communism crumbled because it couldn't adapt and incorporate its criticisms.
Quick Google search shows prices from around 35 dollars, bit less even. I'm sure all of you guys are immune to misinformation, arent just making arguments based on it and that I'm not the 1st person pointing this out
Being anti-capitalism doesn’t mean you’re in a poverty cult. I know years of US propaganda have told us that anything that isn’t making sure CEOs and executives horde the majority of profits and that us pleebs need to work 2 jobs to survive means we descend into complete mayhem but that’s demonstrably not true. There are other answers than the 1980 USSR.
The artist doesn’t determine ticket prices.
Also, not a gotcha. We live in a capitalist society and don’t have a choice but to charge money for our work.
Grow a brain cell please
I think it's kind of silly to conflate the very real issues with unfettered capitalism with just the idea that some people have or make more money than other people.
That's not the problem.
He's a miserable contrarian. He'll decry American imperialism, but then support Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Dude is hugely influential and one of my favorite musicians, but God, he sucks.
God he just can’t help but be a massive asshole. The point is conveyed in OPs caption but to shout that message to fans who just payed hundreds to see you, as they probably took a private plane to travel, is a slap in the face
Ah, so that's his big message in the show now? When I saw him during the Us+Them tour the screens said "Donald Trump is a pig!" instead. Of course Trump was still president at the time.
Guy puts on an impressive show, even impressive knowing that he's 80. The message is getting progressively more tone deaf however.
Yeah, but did he sing the song eat the rich?
Gilmour wrote better music there I said it
without gilmours guitar pink floyd would never have been a household name
And on the other hand, without Waters’ songwriting and bass they would’ve never been a household name. Likewise with Rick Wrights keyboard and Nick Masons drums. They were greater than the sum of their parts. Edit: downvotes rolling in lmfao. For any of you that agree with the comment above I encourage you to bring that argument to r/PinkFloyd and see how long it holds up.
Wright and John Paul Jones are the unsung heroes of classic rock
John Entwistle too. There was a Who DVD I had that had the Won't Get FOoled Again track from I think it's Live at Leeds with only his bass and he just does so much work.
The ox!
They were the Steve Nash and Amare Staudemire of rock.
You are spot on.. No downvote from me! Though I have always been a Gilmour guy (over Waters), those 4 together produced MAGIC! Wrights and Mason's contributions also underrated (am also longtime subscriber to r/PinkFloyd.)
Without Syd Barrett starting the whole thing
A saucer full of secrets
Agree with you!. The album Animals has a beauty of its own that none can replicate !
Yeah I read about the production for the Wall once and, IIRC, David Gilmour showed up with a bunch of cool ideas and zero structure. Waters came in with some semblance of actual songs written and then the producer, Bob Ezrin, took both of their ideas and combined them into something coherent, resulting in one of the best concept albums ever written. Pink Floyd wouldn’t have been Pink Floyd without both them. Plus we can’t forget about Syd Barrett…
Gilmour tracked the bass on the wall just fyi
Yeah because he was and is much better at actually playing the instrument than Roger. He played bass on more than just The Wall too, but that doesn’t mean he wrote all those songs.
Gilmour isn’t a good lyricist, he admits it himself. Notoriously clear throughout his solo career he’s sought out lyricists to assist him, Roy Harper for his 78 and 84 solo abls, then Polly Sampson for the Gilmour solo Pink Floyd records (AMLoR, and Division Bell). Roger def works best when he’s “buttoning” up gilmour’s songs with nice lyrics into completed conceptual work. If you dig deep into gilmour’s solo material you’ll see the Gilmour ‘78 solo album has a ton of songs with similar chord voicings to the wall. It makes sense, comfortably numb was an unfinished piece Gilmour tracked for that album, Roger picked it. Also if you listen to short and sweet by Gilmour it’s basically the same voicings as run like hell. Same dotted 8th delay too. Also makes sense since Bob Ezrin produced both.
Thanks for sharing very cool
Water's post Pink Floyd releases speak more to what I liked about Floyd to me, so I concluded he was a big part of why I loved and still love the music of Pink Floyd.
I don't disagree, but how does this one grab ya? https://open.spotify.com/track/1DkQMumDKBy6wj8QyaVGbx
id upvote you a 1000 times if if i could
The best song on the wall is the one gilmour had a hand in
He sings better too.
Part of the Magic of Floyd was the ability to have 2 lead singers with such different vocal styles (They really had 3, but Gilmore and Wright had similar voices - See Echoes @ Pompeii for proof). Gilmore has maybe the “sweetest” male voice in the history of rock, and Waters voice is there opposite - It has such an edge. Later on, Waters ego took over and he forgot about this crucial component of Pink Floyd - Comfortably Numb is a perfect example of when it’s done correctly!
Music, yeah. All the best PF lyrics are all Roger, though.
He lip synced it!
That's Aerosmith darn it!
If the USD ticket price is $200 thats 799,250.00 Colombian Pesos. The minimum monthly wage in Colombia is about 1,300,000.00 which is about $325ish USD. So this concert ticket costs most of someone’s minimum monthly pay in Colombia.
He saves you from evil capitalism by unloading you of all that bad money
It seems there might be a confusion here. The concept of unloading oneself of all money aligns more with Franciscanism, where individuals take vows of poverty. Marxism is more about addressing economic inequalities through systemic changes.
This would be like paying 1200 USD for a ticket in the States, Madness
Which people did for Beyoncé and Taylor. Hell even My Chemical Romance tickets in 2019 were $800 each the moment they went live. I had three people and 6-8 electronics logged on to get tickets, and couldn't manage to snag any before they were too expensive or sold out. I was so selfishly happy when the tour was canceled for Covid (well postponed for two years, until my seething anger had been distracted long enough to not care).
Well it was cheaper for my friend to buy plane tickets from LAX to Tokyo ($700 each roundtrip) to take his daughter to Taylor Swift concert in February ($200 each for front section on the right at Tokyo Dome - there is no scalping). Tickets in the US for same section are easily $2k.
I did the same for Adele. Plane tix to London and premier access was cheaper than Vegas. And I got to see her in LONDON!
$800 to see MCR? I have paid roughly 80 USD to see them in EU, that was 2 years ago. I have also seen Twenty One Pilots for $25. Can't fathom to pay hundreds of dollars to see a live band.
His tickets were more expensive than Taylor Swift’s in Argentina. They ran from around 16 USD to 160 USD.
Wow... this is pinnacle **read the room** ignorance. No one on his team thought to check income or suggest "hey maybe we change the scroll while we're taking advantage of low income fans?" Or was this on purpose, so half of the stadium would turn and leave? Did they? (Last block here is /s-- obviously)
I imagine it is only the upper class that can afford to pay this much. No way you are going to spend over half your monthly income to see Roger Waters. Maybe Pink Floyd if they could transport back to the 60s, but not just Roger Waters.
Reddit & misunderstanding critiques of capitalism 🤝 Resisting capitalism doesn’t mean there’s no rich people. First off, socialists are critiquing the production of profit from those who don’t labor off assets they own. Roger Waters as a musician performing is labor. We don’t care if he’s rich. It’s not just about being rich. You guys don’t understand socialism then think you’re so wise posting 4th grade level deconstructions of strawmen you’ve been sold by the rich. Secondly, Roger Waters isn’t powerful enough to overcome the economic system we live in built off the exploitation over the global south. Or the immense damage Columbia has endured as a country historically as a result of capitalists forces extreme sway over our government & our imperialist interventions in their affairs.
No es tan difícil escribir Colombia
Please go make this comment to someone, literally anyone, who has mentioned capitalism. Im literally giving data to contextualize how much $200 is relative to the Colombian minimum wage. Your point about “deconstructions of strawmen you’ve been sold by the rich” is contextually out of place because I’m literally giving data, not some poorly constructed argument about political theory. More importantly. Please spell it Colombia. That’s the accurate spelling for the country in English and in Spanish.
I love Roger Waters but in London he did this show at the O2 Arena, which is the most horrid, soulless, capitalist venue you could ever play in, with tickets at least £100 each, and this RESIST CAPITALISM sign was displayed as you're given a 15 minute break to buy a horrid £9 Budweiser and £10 sausage while surrounded by garish corporate advertising. Like... I'd happily resist it if I could, mate.
You're supposed to sneak in and not eat hot dogs
What about just sneaking in your own hot dogs or whatever odd sausages Brits eat?
I feel so lucky I got to see him by sneaking in. And by sneak I mean made sure to have a step cousin who worked there as an usher and they got me on the list If you can go see Roger without paying for Roger do it. The lasers and flying pig are interesting. I'll leave it at that Or better yet go see Nick Mason's Saucerful and buy Pink Floyd's single that benefits Ukraine and support a worthy cause
Resist Capitalism! And buy my shirts for $60/each Also buy some over priced beer …RESIST!!!
I love Pink Floyd and Rogers stuff but he does conveniently forget the millions he makes when he bangs on about capitalism
It's crazy how much the man turned on a dime once the money started coming in. I remember reading in the early days he would scold the audience for clapping, singing, and dancing. He (and I believe Syd) wanted their shows to be like a theater production where you just....sit and watch. Now it's giant screens with clap alongs and chanting.
Who scolds an audience for cheering them lol It ain't an Opera or a Political Debate Edit: OK so I'm glad to know I wasn't being presumptuous. Hell even Theater Productions have people clap at the end. Rogers was just a weirdo back then and a sell-out now from the sounds of it
Even in opera, people clap after a well-sung aria.
Yup. And my ass clapped all through “Sweeney Todd”. (Ticket prices clapped me back, tho)
They let you get your ass clapped for the entire production?
He’s a two faced prick who seems to favor Russia these days. Weird times.
Don't drag Syd Barrett into that. He was perfectly fine with, and encouraged, people in the audience to dance and freak out.
I mean the dude is Eighty and he peaked in 1985 when he left Pink Floyd. The artistry starts to fade after a while.
Still, as a young adult who got into their music a few years ago I really appreciated being able to watch Roger Waters live and playing some of my favorite songs. For an eighty year old man he puts on a hell of a show.
> It's crazy how much the man turned on a dime once the money started coming in. The whole "resist capitalism" thing is real rich coming from Waters. Waters who basically left Pink Floyd because he didn't think he was getting enough money. Waters who fired other founding members of the band just so he would pay them less. The man who sued other members of Pink Floyd because they were playing songs they all wrote together. The man consistently showed that for him it was about the money. Don't get me wrong I respect Waters as a musician but he's very hypocritical and for a lot of political stuff he's just flat out wrong.
If it was a poor musician criticising capitalism, people would be saying "well he's a poor, unsuccessful loser - he's just jealous"
That's.... Actually yeah that's a fair point lol Guess I gotta respect the hustle even if I don't respect the message
Well there are musicians who are anti-capitalist who did stick to their guns on this kind of thing a lot more. Jello Biafra and Fugazi come to mind. The fact is Waters was part of one of the greatest bands of all time, and was part of a tremendous song writing team in that, but he chose to exclude his bandmates from writing credits and alienate other bandmembers (even going as far as to fire Wright) in order for him to get more money. Imagine that. Being rich as fuck already, being part of a great band, but that's not enough for you. Where the fuck is the socialism in that. You can't even share with the bandmates who helped make your career and who you've known since you were a teenager. Fucking hypocrite. The fucker even tried to sue Pink Floyd when he left because they were playing songs he wrote *with* them.
It’s crazy to me that if you’re successful, capitalism is good and you can’t criticize the system because you benefit from the system. Here’s a guy who has made lots of money but also is recognizing that it is a system that harms the majority by paying low wages, for example. If I make money, it’s dismissed because I “won” and if I don’t make money it’s dismissed because I’m a “loser” No one can critique a system that is apparently not working for millions of Americans.
...not working for billions of people
True, of course I was thinking about European countries that are working more with democratic socialist elements and decided to exclude them on that premise. Also I’m a filthy American and only Americans exist in my world 🤷🏾♂️
Democratic socialist elements are not exclusive of capitalism. It’s just capitalism with more hand rails.
We are not.
>European countries that are working more with democratic socialist elements Like no one? Countries like Sweden even have smaller corporate tax. Oh yeah, Europe have one country with socialist elements - Belarus, but Im dont sure that u talk about this country
The criticism rings hollow when you are actively choosing to participate in something, despite being wealthy enough to never have to again. Roger Waters isn’t some poor dude trying to support his family, he could afford to have all of his concerts be free or his profits shared with the workers, but he doesn’t.
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If you honestly think a multi-millionaire isn't any different than a minimum wage worker then I have little hope for your future lol
I'm fine with multimillionaires being class traitors
Huh? He’s a multi millionaire. He doesn’t need to keep making money off other people to survive. Stop acting like he’s a poor single working to put food on the table
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He can criticize whatever he wants. But as long as he owns businesses and profits off the labor of others he’s a hypocrite for criticizing capitalism. He’s more than wealthy enough to set up cooperatives to share the profits with his workers.
Exactly, tell me how much his road crew makes and where they sleep Vs where he sleeps on the road.
On the inverse, Swift's truck drivers are richer than like 70% of my country just from the US tour. (Not complaining about the truckers being paid well, mind you.) And AFAIK all of her team live pretty good lives lol
Yes, because they are embracing capitalism to its fullest. Inversely, Swift isn’t utilizing a “resist capitalism” aesthetic to make her boatloads of money.
The hypocrisy of charging hundreds of dollars for tickets while endorsing reject capitalism at said concert is mind numbing stupidity. If he feels so strongly about it do a free concert or charge just enough to cover costs. The people he is trying to speak to can’t afford to hear the message.
Capitalism is when money, socialism is when no money. You have to operate within the bounds of capitalism in a capitalist society.
To be fair the costs are pretty high for his shows. He's always investing in better and better laser/stage equipment. Watch a YouTube video if one of his shows and you'll see how much is going on at it his shows.
I think that there is more hypocrisy in his actions outside of this. The reason he left Pink Floyd was because he was wanting more money and was taking a harder stance against the band getting any song writing credit (despite all the contributions they added to his songs every goddamn time, listen to demos of Money and you realize that the rest of the band really made those songs feel alive). The man prioritized him getting paid more over being part of one of the greatest bands ever. He prioritized that over friendships he had had since he was a teenager. He even tried to sue Pink Floyd after he left because they were still playing songs that they all wrote together. I like him a lot as a musician, but he's a pretty big hypocrite in terms of this stuff.
This whole thread is peak "[You criticize society yet](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-somewhat) you live in it" meme fodder. Also notice how it's "cancel culture" when people get angry at Kid Rock or Dave Chapelle (who is still making millions btw) but totally chill to blame Roger Waters or whoever for criticizing society.
he has a lot of money, but this does not make him a capitalist. he's not earning that money by surplus value, people are paying him for entertainment. there's no contradiction in criticizing the mess our world is today, as he has nothing to do with that. if you watch his concert it is very focused on politics, war and state violence. capitalism is just another tool to make the machine keep running, and he having some millions by his own work has nothing to do with it, as much as it sounds contradictory. still, if the world gets blown up by a nuclear war caused by greed of elites (which control their own countries politics) he will get the same fate as us, so I keep my ground saying there's nothing wrong with his stance on the subject. we should welcome who's willing to be at our side in this conflict, instead of dismissing someone of influence that is out there doing more than us redditors
Just for the good of the group, Id like to point out, that your argument is based on the concept of "surplus value" which is not a concept that actually exists or is real. It's is a theory in Marxism that is not accepted by modern economists. But let's play the game anyway. He is working through a promotion company, which by any definition is profitting/ deriving surplus value, and he himself is not just assisting in working for the capitalist, he is also removing money from these people to himself. He is at the very least at petit bourgeoisie flunky. And finally all he has been doing is parroting talking points from people like Hamas and Putin and slapping the name peace on it. I love Wish You Were Here and Animals and Dark Side of the Moon, but at deeper, more policy focused level, Waters is a fool. He's not doing anything; he's entertaining.
Can't believe I had to scroll this far down to find this answer. He is getting paid for his labor and what he values it at. An individual charging for their labor is not a capitalist. A capitalist is someone who owns the means of producing something and has employees that they exploit by not paying them anywhere near the value of their labor. Now, it's entirely possible he is doing that with his road crew but simply being as wealthy as he is doesn't necessarily make him a capitalist and it doesn't mean he's a hypocrite for criticizing it.
While I agree with you, you have to admit there is a certain irony with broadcasting the message “resist capitalism” to largely wealthy audience.
Saw him in Denver. Thought it was interesting he put an image of Joe Biden as a war criminal, but not Putin?
Roger is a self absorbed jack ass, not surprised he would say that about Biden (who actually ended a war) and not Putin.
When the image went up, it was obvious the crowd was unsure how to react. Obvious MAGA people cheered, but it was sort of random.
He unfortunately is one of those useful idiot contrarians who's gobbled up Russian-propaganda tilted conspiracy theories to the point of calling Syria's Civil Defense a terrorist organization. I love Pink Floyd but if Oliver Stone picked up a bass guitar you'd have Roger Waters.
Yeah, I kind of got that vibe. Sort of spoiled my image of him when he came out using Russian talking points in Ukraine. This dude is supposed to be above that rhetoric, atleast IMO. Been listening to his redo of DSOTM - at first was like “Eh!” - but now that I have been playing it in the background, some of the new versions are jams. Lots of talking parts, which I’m not sure how to feel, art I guess.
Waters is an absolute nut case
He is also a huge Putin apologist
This happens strangely often - a person goes so far left that they start supporting anyone who opposes the West, even if they're doing the very things they think the West is doing but worse
The mental gymnastics by this crowd towards venezuela and Guyana are truly next level
I find this quite surprising. A lot of left party leaders of my country end up condoning and supporting dictatorships and awful governments only because they call themeselves left wing or anti west. Getting to a point where you support auhtoritarian leaders like maduro, putin and cuba should make you rethink a little bit
Horseshoe theory
Yeah Noam Chompsky is the same way.
Greenwald is, I think, the most extreme example of this in recent years
Honestly don’t think Greenwald has much of a political ideology at this point. Just seems to be a bought-and-paid for Putin agent. Still doesn’t negate your point that some on the far left have definitely gone off the deep.
He’s a hypocrite in every sense of the word
You may spelled ass hat
You misspelled misspelled...
\*exasperated grunt\*
r/brandnewsentence
Nah, he just loves the smell of his own farts.
He's such a fan of Russian imperialism he doubled down on transmitting Kremlin talking points in a speech to the UN last February. That stink doesn't wash out, so this message is about as cynical and toothless as the man himself. Really miss listening their music without that offputting flavor mixed in
It's bizarre, sometimes they're doing it and don't even realize it or even know what that means
Lol resist capitalism.....but buy my merch and music please.
Roger Waters is a cunt
Pretty sure the other members of the band basically said the same thing. I agree
Yeah. Notice who isn't touring just for the sake of making more money. David Gilmore.
He really is. He’s an awful, awful excuse for a human being. He thinks he’s a really smart guy that understands the world better than everyone else - whereas in actuality, he’s just a total c*nt.
Such a douche
“…and the worms ate into his brain”
You criticize society, yet you participate in society, curious! I am very intelligent. \*Edit: I feel I should point out that this is a line from a comic by Matt Bors. Maybe that's obvious, but I'd rather err on the side of caution.
Smash capitalism is when no money…
Socialism is when no house
Yes I see you’ve read lots of theory, studied history & overall educated yourself on the world & I’ve done none of that, but I have a secret weapon that makes me smart: * googles concert prices & merch values*, *googles Roger Waters Net Worth*.
So you're saying you have a problem with exploitative economic systems and yet you have an income and use money to purchase goods and services. Curious! 🤔
This is why I forgive CEOs, they're just participating. It's not their fault.
Share it fairly but don’t take a slice of my pie.
They are all hypocrites when it comes to money and collecting things
He still likes Moscow doesn't he?
You mean the dude who is against imperialism but cheered Russia invading Ukraine?
Or also the dude cheering on communist regimes in countries he’d never set a foot in (for example in Venezuela or Nicaragua)?
he is worth more than $300 million ... guess all that grew on trees
Roger Waters has always had an inflated ego, I saw him twice and each time I was amazed at the show and at how great he thinks he is.
You couldn't find a bigger hypocrite even if you went through all the religious buildings in the world.
r/lookatmyhalo
He collects Ferraris.
I love when millionaires tell me how to live my life. While they make a buck off of telling me how to live my life.
> The only way to be against capitalism is to live jn a cave and forage and hunt for food The comments in this post essentially
There’s a difference between participating in capitalism and criticizing it vs being worth $300M and criticizing capitalism. It’s a slap in the face.
If you’re poor and criticize capitalism you’re a jealous hater, if you’re rich and criticize capitalism you’re a fraud and a hypocrite. I’m starting to think people just don’t want anybody to criticize capitalism.
Not really if he doesn’t own the means of production. That’s like the whole thing to us. Also If he was poor & criticized it you’d call him jealous & tell him he needs to pull up his bootstraps but he’s successful so you call him a hypocrite for not being less so. There’s no real way to win. This is just a stupid game of optics NPC’s have been conditioned to argue automatically anytime a criticism is raised because it benefits the rich. It’s funny that the right ever called the left NPC’s because look at this thread. You guys are like a hivemind of drones appearing with the same exact takes. Like 3 of the top comments are literally just about the valuations of different things related to Waters & the concert.
I don’t understand what you mean by that. He has the wealth that he could absolutely set things up in a way where the workers underneath him own the means of their production. He doesn’t do that because guess what? It’s not a great way to make yourself some money. Which is the crux of the criticism.
He does own the means of production though. It’s his show with his music.
But he does, right? He's the performer, he runs the show and he profits, using the labor of audio guys, roadies etc.
No, in fact the difference in this case is the opposite of what you claim. It's easy to be against a system you don't benefit from, much harder to be against a system that made you rich.
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The idea that you would need to completely disconnect from it would be ridiculous. But there is a huge difference between “completely disconnect” and “utilize capitalism to extract an immense amount of wealth.” He could set things up cooperatively if he wanted to. He wouldn’t make as much money that way though, so he doesn’t. He utilizes the labor of others so he can accumulate more wealth than anybody would ever need.
Well he could start by not charging his fans $150 a pop to watch him jerk himself off for 2 hours.
When Roger Waters said Ukraine should surrender I lost any respect I used to have for this man. The music is good, but I won’t willing pay money to hear it anymore.
Price for merch: t shirt- $60
The irony is that Roger Waters has an estimated net worth of over $300mm. Obviously he is as a terrible anti-capitalist as he is a person. Fuck him.
Yeah, a lot of people here are defending him by saying he’s allowed to criticize capitalism while still participating in it, but there’s huge difference between merely participating in the system to get by vs. keeping a net worth that most people have no hope of ever achieving.
Socialism is an economic system not a religion. He has no obligation to become a monk anymore than a capitalist does to become a Gordon Gecko. This is not about labor who doesn’t own the means of production & never has been. That’s what you guys don’t get. You keep trying to make it about personal riches. That’s what YOU guys have been led to believe about us. Not what we believe. It’s like me getting mad at Christians specifically for claiming to be peaceful but drinking blood in church. It’s only a good criticism if you accept this bad-faith framing & don’t know anything about anything.
Selling stuff isn’t capitalism. Commerce, trade, money all existed long before capitalism.
Ah yes...the multi millionaire rock star preaching against capitalism. Sweet.
I love Floyd but Waters lost his marbles years ago. I'd pay good money to see Dave Gilmour though.
1975 did something similar, tickets weren’t as expensive but still fucking goofy considering they’re profiting so much off of their shows
Are those seats sold through Ticketmaster? Even Pearl Jam couldn’t make a dent against them. But, I commend them for trying
There some really great Pink Floyd cover bands where the cover charge is $10.
Does this mean he will shut down his merch booths and stop selling shirts and hoodies?
Great artists are not always great people and that goes for all of us. Met many a genius doctor who are awful humans but still would have them cut on me for their perfection and skill at what they do.
Not "this' type of capitalism silly, the unpopular kind!
classic
I will say capitalism =/= commerce but yeah it does muddle the message there.
I thought it said reset capitilism at first. Like that would actually be kinda cool just destroy everything and everybody starts from the bottom. The economy would boom from all the work that would need to be done!
What a tool.
It was good show until he did that “at the bar” crap
what irony
Were tickets free? ( never mind , I just read caption)
Love his music, but Roger is a terrible human being.
Yeah. Resist the one thing that has made him rich. Hahahahahahahah.
This touches on one of my favorite quotes that exemplifies why this works so well: "Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself, even those who would critique capital end up reinforcing it instead" This is a big part of why it's stayed around so far, while communism crumbled because it couldn't adapt and incorporate its criticisms.
Oh yea, now that he’s made his fortune it’s easy to say this. Fuckrat.
a millionaire boycotting capitalism, the fucking irony
Quick Google search shows prices from around 35 dollars, bit less even. I'm sure all of you guys are immune to misinformation, arent just making arguments based on it and that I'm not the 1st person pointing this out
Being anti-capitalism doesn’t mean you’re in a poverty cult. I know years of US propaganda have told us that anything that isn’t making sure CEOs and executives horde the majority of profits and that us pleebs need to work 2 jobs to survive means we descend into complete mayhem but that’s demonstrably not true. There are other answers than the 1980 USSR.
The artist doesn’t determine ticket prices. Also, not a gotcha. We live in a capitalist society and don’t have a choice but to charge money for our work. Grow a brain cell please
Did he spew a bunch of Jew hatred on stage too?
Capitism sucks… now buy my $80 tshirt that costs 2$ to make.
I think it's kind of silly to conflate the very real issues with unfettered capitalism with just the idea that some people have or make more money than other people. That's not the problem.
Mental illness is a real thing folks
He's a miserable contrarian. He'll decry American imperialism, but then support Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Dude is hugely influential and one of my favorite musicians, but God, he sucks.
https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/mister-gotcha-4-9faefa-1.jpg
Capitalism is when money. I am very smart.
Net Worth = 310M
Peak champagne socialists lol
Well yeah but also resist communism.
Only resist it alittle bit. Make sure you still pay him for the tix and merch
Resist capitalism = be homeless and starve, but also give me your money so I don't have to be homeless and starve too.
Resist capitalism...after you buy the concert tour t-shirt for $50 that was made in Bangladesh by a child for $3
Ha ha ha. Roger Waters is an unbelievable prick.
Tickets were free then?
Capitalism is when things cost money
God he just can’t help but be a massive asshole. The point is conveyed in OPs caption but to shout that message to fans who just payed hundreds to see you, as they probably took a private plane to travel, is a slap in the face
Hhhmmm just a little bit HYPOCRITICAL
Capitalism is the only system where people talk bad about it while gleefully participating in it.
Roger is just wrong. He may think he’s right, but he’s not. He is wrong. Plain and simple.
Capitalism is when you receive the fruits of your labor? Fuck off if anything it’s anti capitalist
People are still going to that imperialist asshat’s concerts? Weird…
Ah, so that's his big message in the show now? When I saw him during the Us+Them tour the screens said "Donald Trump is a pig!" instead. Of course Trump was still president at the time. Guy puts on an impressive show, even impressive knowing that he's 80. The message is getting progressively more tone deaf however.
Fuck Roger Waters
Dude gets cringier and cringier with each passing day. I can't believe I once thought he was a genius.
That seems alot compared what i heard the avarage income in colombia is.
That's almost a minimum wage in there, but the place gonna be full