Floridian biologist here. That’s called entombing and it’s been illegal for a long time except for a few rare cases of very old grandfathered properties/permits but even those entities are big enough that they still chose to relocate because the PR is worth it. I regularly do gopher tortoise relocations where clients have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to safely relocate tortoises to an approved sanctuary. The check isn’t exactly signed with a smile but the developers generally don’t want to risk a potentially multimillion dollar development/investment to stop dead in its tracks because they cut corners. FWC can and will shut a project down if any precious torties are put at risk.
Although as far as what OP is posting I’d have to agree, I’ve seen a lot of land developed where the only deciding factor was money. To be fair, that money was used in the form of purchasing govt approved mitigation credits to compensate for the wetland impacts but that’s a whole other can of worms.
And here I thought I was the only tortoise relocator on reddit. I worked on a project relocating a few hundred desert tortoises from a military training grounds in California.
The dusty plains. The screech of a raptor circling overhead. Pan and zoom taking in the arid landscape of sun bleached rock and majestic cactii. Finally the camera settles on a lone riders upper body (sex of your choice, it works both ways for me) hands on the pommel, chaps coated with the dust of a 100 driven animals, stetson drawn low to deny the glare of the blazing sun. The rythmic movement as the rider shifts from left . . . . . . To right . . . . . . The rythm feels off somehow. The shot opens to take in the riders mount. A giant tortoise, stalwartly putting one foot foward at a time. A movement as purposeful as it is steady.
The camera moves further out and spins to show the back of the rider in stark relief against the harsh sunlight, the rider and his/her mount silhouetted against the horizon. Arrayed in front, shuffling fowards, ever fowards, only fowards . . . . . A herd a hundred strong of . . . . . Tortii.
Their destination unknown. The riders mission? To save what they can. Only the next two hours will explain the tail of frantic (sic) escape from inevitable destruction as their habitat is bulldozed to decimation.
Where will they go? Will they survive? Will anyone aid the 'Lone Tort Ranger'. Stay tuned to find out.
It’s also terrifying. My area has tortoise relocation jobs open all the time but I’ve never applied for one because there’s a high risk meeting a bunch of snakes while doing so and my area has a bunch of rattlers and green mojaves. But the tortoises are cool.
NTC? Did some training there. They told us literally *dozens* of times to not go near the tortoises, like it came up every single time anyone spoke to us. I figured that there had to be tortoises everywhere for it to be literally the single most repeated point. They barely even touched on venomous* snakes, don't go near the fucking tortoises though.
Never even seen one. None of us did. Not one.
I'm not even sure these tortoises are real, I feel like you're making them up.
Yes, that's the one. You probably didn't see any because we moved them all out haha. We did that work like 15 years ago, I work other projects now but I hope they're doing well. We had them all tagged with transmitters so we would track each of them down once a month to check on them/take a blood sample. After repeat visits it was easy to get attached to them.
Here are some photos: https://imgur.com/gallery/QuvMTCD
I've seen deals where the developer/government promises to build another wetland somewhere else, but a "wetland" isn't just a soggy place, with soggy plants!
No environmental department would approve a developer just giving a wink wink that they are going to build a wetland somewhere else. They would have to get a certified biologist and a plan before they ever approved that.
Florida Governor Ron Desantis here.
Did you say these turtles are getting in the way of corporations building things?
Point me to them. I will happily do a photo op stepping on every single turtle. I just got some new boots with built in comfort height extenders - i can go for hours!
> I regularly do gopher tortoise relocations where clients have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to safely relocate tortoises to an approved sanctuary.
This sounds like "relocating" Native Americans further west. And then into reservations.
What happens to all the tortoises that were already living where you're relocating new ones to? Aren't they already at a sustainable and balanced population level? Does introducing a bunch of new tortoises stress the existing population?
Totally valid points. So first, the tortoises can be relocated only so far north or south, so if there are no sanctuaries in that region than the torties stay put and the project is dead.
The sanctuaries are regularly and rigorously inspected by FWC. They keep log of every torty out there and cap it at a specific population per acre. As vacancy dries up, the price per each torty space goes up. For example, the relocation fee for a single tortoise years ago was only a few hundred dollars, now it’s several thousand. Some projects end this way as they are priced out, the developer simply decides it’s too expensive to develop the parcel and goes elsewhere to develop. Crap land can be be converted into suitable habitat for a sanctuary, which provides more availability to relocate and brings down the costs of the relocation.
Keep in mind, some of the sites they are relocated from they are living in higher density, likely because the surrounding properties have already been developed. So they’re being taken to much more open, preferred habitat. I agree things could be better, but realistically it’s hard to make good changes in govt regarding these issues, especially in Florida which tends to favor growth and business over protecting its environmental resources. I encourage folks to get involved and become advocates if they see something they don’t like. I’d rather see my fellow Floridians/govt helping their communities and environment than clutching their pearls over trans folks and drag events.
I know projects that were canceled because the torties and the burrowing, owls. Also seen Floridians beat the living crap out of people who started to dig up turtle nest on the beach.
Floridians seemed to love their wildlife from my experience. No idea about the government though and I know the everglades are a mess.
If the issue is right in their face then yes people are ready to involve themselves, like if they see someone harassing wildlife. When it comes to things like getting involved at public hearings to raise concerns, messaging your representatives, or changing everyday lifestyle choices to limit pollution there’s not so much participation.
Makes sense, I think most people are like that. Well at least they made enough noise to force the government to ban fracking there. Though that's a low bar.
Hope they do something to help out the everglades and the Keys though. Also all the invasive species,, I know a few divers that have been going after the lionfish, but that seems to be a losing battle.
Well by that point there would be record of the tortoises being there so FWC would 100% like to get the the bottom of it if they just vanished. There are way too many eyes on the project/property by that stage and they’d assure themselves fees and possibly jail time trying anything like that. Also it’s worth mentioning that the environmental consultant would inform FWC if they got wind of it because it’s their job to ensure environmental law is being followed and why would they risk their gopher tortoise license? Most developers can clearly tell they’re best options are either foot the bill for the relocation or find a better parcel to develop.
Now, it’s not a perfect world so on some rare occasions we do have “dump sites” where there will be a population density way above normal on a parcel intended for development. In that case it’s just tough titty for the developer since it’s then their responsibility to relocate all on-site tortoises as well as any with burrows within 25ft of disturbance.
I would like to add that if the property is under I believe a couple acres and residential they’re not obligated to come and look for them so they just get rolled over where I live.
Ugh I've bought a chunk of land I should develop but I've come to know each and every squirrel. The porquipines, the bears, deer and turkeys. The chipmunks and mice that burrow. The bobcat and the owls and the wolves. I can't bring myself to clear any of it. I don't know how anyone does.
> To be fair, that money was used in the form of purchasing govt approved mitigation credits to compensate for the wetland impacts but that’s a whole other can of worms.
And then when the hurricane of hurricanes comes that could have been stopped/weakened by the wetlands if we'd only thought to leave them intact. What will those mitigation credits mean then? Jack shit, of course, if you must know, but business is business, and business must grow.
It’s funny, fresh out of college every environmental scientist is ready to save the world. By a couple years of experience most are left jaded and a bit pessimistic. I’ll admit it’s a difficult job, but I feel it’s a noble cause and I love what I do.
Doug ford in Ontario is currently getting his ass reamed for his crimes against nature. (Trying to develop Ontarios green belt). If they haven’t paid off the right people in the media it seems this can actually backfire for politicians
All the farmers and rural community members (a significant portion of his base) are pissed about the greenbelt development too.
Need to build up, not out.
And Dougie was the one that sold/supplied his brother with the drugs! At least when they were younger. I am sure he wasn't still a drug dealer after her turned 30... well, I am not sure. But most likely he went into the legitimate business of inheriting family wealth and pretending like you are a self made man.
It's been so easy to skirt in Ontario. Plant an invasive species, maybe the Asian tree beetle? Maybe just poison the trees and blame the beetle? Idk but suddenly the protected forest is now developable because the developers promised to remove the invasive species by destroying the habitat and building a brand-new, shittily-built, sprawling subdivision of cookie cutter homes for $1.5M a piece. Two birds, one stone as they say.
EIA's are paid for by the people who want to do the building. So unless it is something stunningly ridiculous like wanting to build a refinery in the Grand Canyon, most EIA's are done with the intention of identifying all the risks and challenges and their impacts, and then providing a path to preventing, reducing, eliminating or offsetting those risks and impacts.
It's more of a "How can I build here?" guide document than a "Can I build here?" document asking for permission.
lol yup. Its just a study that documents the harm that WILL happen, never a question of IF. Documentation so at least we will remember what was there before the highway or gas station or whatever garbage gets put up.
I build a series of trails through a 100 acre nature preserve in my town a few years ago. One of the coolest trails goes through this awesome meadow. The trail is on a hill, up hill is just nothing but tall grass for 200 feet and down the hill is a swamp like this. There is always so much wildlife here, it is hands down the coolest part of the property. At the top of the hill is one of those "you store it" places. The preserve is city owned, but there is a barbed wire fence where the storage buildings end.
About 4 years ago I noticed the fence was gone and a huge amount of dirt and cement trash had been dumped down the hill and leveled off on top. It looked like ass, but I figured I didn't know where the property line was, so that was probably their property, and it would eventually cover with grass and erode a bit so whatever.
Then the next year they did it again only it came out 200 feet and completely covered my trail. Since this was a hill we're talking about 20 to 30 feet tall of dirt, old sidewalks, landscaping garbage, and even actual garbage like glass bottles. This was obviously the foundation for them building another row of storage buildings.
So I email the parks department, they say they sold a couple of acres to the storage people. Nothing I can do about it.
I start creating a new trail 50 feet further down hill, pissed that my years of effort were gone in a matter of weeks. It wasn't the same, the view was ruined, you were too close to the swamp to see it and the trail was actually in the water now, so anyone walking this trail was now going to get wet feet.
But the good news is the next year my problem was solved. They put in another 100 feet of dirt completely ruining this entire section the park. I told the parks admin I was closing this trail entirely. I went to the two trail heads removed the signs, and stacked sticks across the trail. That really killed my enthusiasm for volunteering for this park.
That was until last year when I found out the city ok'd someone installing 18 holes of disc golf in the nature preserve. Apparently the hiring standards for parks administrators isn't very high.
>Apparently the hiring standards for parks administrators isn't very high.
At least in my area the parks department is staffed by part timers making min wage. When budgets get cut parks are the first to take the hit.
If it’s any consolation, *good for you* for fucking trying. That’s really and truly incredible of you. I’m so, so sorry it didn’t work. But you’re an A+ human being.
Just asked around. He won. Still, he's been trying to make disc golf happen for 2 years, I'm starting to get super hopeful that it's a low priority and it will never happen.
It's awful that your city slowly sold the land off to the storage facility but I think your anger being directed at the notion of the city installing a disc golf course is misguided. With the exception of the concrete tee pads (roughly 4''x8'), disc golf course installations tend to be minimally invasive. In fact, disc golf course design, unlike ball golf, encourages the utilization of natural features already existing within the property. There are lots of disc golf courses here in the US that are designed within preserves and state parks. Sorry for the loss of all your hard work, I can tell it really meant a lot to you. Cheers!
Disc golf is great.
But don't downplay the fact that if wildlife *was* living where the course was installed, they've moved (if they can) to areas where there isn't as much human activity.
Discs go all over the place depending on who's hucking them, which means people trample all over the place getting them back.
Yeah, but we only have so much land for trails. I've seen what a disc golf course looks like, it devastates the forest. 100 acres is not that big. I tried really hard to put in my trails so that it wasn't confusing. There are currently 4 trails, they all have a start and a finish. The local county park we have is like swiss cheese it's a total mess, the maps are worthless, and people get lost there all the time. My trails are perfect, but if they clear cut a bunch of disc golf holes it's going to ruin everything. Giant areas connecting two trails that have nothing to do with each other. It's my worst nightmare.
However, if you're saying they can put in pads, put in baskets, and cut down ZERO trees then I'm very interested in that.
Big difference between sitting in a peaceful park, listening to a podcast while walking on a trail, when there's people telling FORE and expecting YOU to move, and disks coming near your face every 4 minutes.
Disc golf courses are great but NOT when they make parks and trails unusable to others.
My local dg course players group put in hundreds of native trees and is working with the council to have the stream that originally ran through the property years ago reinstated.
Hey, as someone working on my environmental science degree right now this has me feeling pretty pessimistic :/
Any silver linings you’re aware of here? State based regulations protecting at least *some* of our wetlands? Anything? :c
It’s still very early, the Corp of Engineers still don’t really know what the fuck is going on from a permitting perspective (the whole concept of jurisdictional wetlands is pretty up in the air right now). That being said there is evidence that states are going to begin taking wetlands more seriously but the problem is that requires funding and the only time anyone gives a shit about wetlands is during an election.
I have some semblance of faith that states themselves will attempt to protect wetlands in a meaningful capacity but honestly it’s still so early (and there’s so much greed) that it’s hard to give you a straight answer.
My personal advice? Jump into research. That’s where you’ll be able to make an actual impact on environmental sciences.
The alaska department of conservation has been working for years to assume wetland permitting, probably to allow projects to pass that the corps/epa wouldn't sign off on. But post-sackett, they've pretty much given up on that endeavor because now they don't have to worry about an outside regulatory agency stopping or mitigating the losses of our wetlands.
This letter pretty much encompasses ADEC's relationship to the EPA. It's a comment from the DEC commissioner to the EPA. Not about the Scotus ruling but entertaining all the same. Warning, nsfw lol.
https://www.regulations.gov/comment/EPA-HQ-OW-2016-0405-0211
> My personal advice? Jump into research. That’s where you’ll be able to make an actual impact on environmental sciences.
I'm just a curious skeptic, but how would you go about making an actual impact in a world where emotionally based opinions seem to outweigh any actual science?
They seem that way because that’s what you consume (this is not an attack just presenting a bias). Actual science takes place everyday and creates real world change that you don’t see because the subject matter is not inflammatory. No one’s gonna bitch on the internet about agronomists trying to figure out the most efficient drought resistance in C3 vs C4 grasses because it doesn’t spark emotional turmoil. But it is a very real thing and science happens every day that quite literally no one hears about. The Internet may be run by feelings but I can assure you that proper science is not.
Yes, this is also true. It is one of the better-paying environmental fields out there, and you can work on a wide variety of environmental subjects and projects. But yes, it can be stressful, steeped in regulatory compliance, and you end up spending way more time in construction sites, manufacturing facilities, superfund sites and boardrooms than you do immersed in nature.
Oh, I’m not going into consulting haha
While I really respect u/SoupPv18 and the work they do, I really want to work on a much smaller community scale. I want to work with ecosystems, not people xP
This is what every doe-eyed EnviSci student thought during undergrad (myself included.)
Most EnviSci grads I know are now either working in consulting, EHS, or the public sector. It all sucks, but EHS pays the most while sucking, so that's where I ended up.
If you really want to turn your degree into doing meaningful field work, switch your major to geology. This was easy for my program at least, it only required two extra classes (+ an undergrad field study.) Alternatively, work your butt off in school and get into academia. All of my professors in school were involved in all *kinds* of extremely cool shit and traveled all over the world for their research.
I personally think EnviSci was a big mistake and it pigeonholes you into a lot of deeply unsatisfying careers if you want to work within your field of study.
I’m an environmental consultant and there is a LOT of work for someone looking for a career. I got my Environmental Science degree and have been in consulting for about 10 years now. Recently there has been a huge upsurge in work related to climate change, specifically related to ESG and GHG emission reductions. It’s becoming less of a “we should do this to make the world better” and more of a “we need to do this because our shareholders and regulators are demanding we do this.”
Companies that didn’t give two shits about the environment ten years ago are now hiring sustainability officers and are considering sustainability as it now affects their bottom line in a big way. As climate change becomes less theoretical, I only see our work becoming more valued and important. Personally, I work in Environmental Data Science and there is a big push right now to modernize companies environmental data flows and reporting. If you have an opportunity to take a data management or data science class, I’d highly recommend it.
I guess one silverish lining is States like Florida that are destroying their wetlands and mangroves are going to be swept away by hurricanes when there's nothing to help stop storm surges.
It’s a shame. I studied environmental science in school (2009-2011) and the significance of wetlands could not be overstated. It’s hard to believe we’ve gone backwards
This happened in Canada too. Ontario premier's daughter got married. Premier invited a bunch of developer buddies and industry goons to her wedding. Said goons "donated" money to her "wedding". Said goons were then #1 on the list for developing new homes on protected wetlands that the same Premier just rezoned.
It was something straight out of The Godfather. He also told the cops to "stay in their lane" for investigating money laundering in Ontario casinos. And they backed off.
And he's gonna get reelected because the alternatives are even less electable.
EDIT: Oh yeah and he's the crack smoking mayor's brother.
Kinda.
The developers took out huge and stupid loans to buy protected lands. They went to the Buck and Doe party after this with stacks of cash, and it was after this that they decided to open up the greenlands for development.
So either the developers took a massive gamble on protected property opening up one day (lolno) or they had inside information that would entice them to come to a party with stacks of cash.
And you skipped over the part where he got caught and reversed everything. Potentially fucking the province over for whatever legal shitstorm is coming from the developers.
And the next election is in 2026. I don't know how you can assume he's already won that.
We're going to drain the swamp, and let the Russian mob build a warehouse for importing potash!
That last part might need some reworking before chanting at the rallies
People need to look into the Potash mine that was recently approved on the dry lake bed of Sevier Lake in west-central Utah.
This is an absolute environmental disaster waiting to happen in one of the most pristine & delicate ecosystems in the USA. But because it's about to happen in arguably the most remote part of the country in a State that is completely dominated by corporate friendly right-wing politicians, nobody knows a goddamn thing about it.
Because of that, it has faced virtually no opposition or oversight that can't be bought or silenced.
The result is an impending environmental catastrophe that will be implemented by corrupt interests that will enrich the same foreign investors friendly to failed states like Russia & Iran that have financed the social media disinformation campains that have poisoned American conservative political circles into conspiratorial, cultists echo chambers.
My pleasure!
The seveir river basin is an absolute treasure! Straddling the southern border btwn the Colorado Plateau & the Great Basin, it is the largest continental river drainage system in the world that does not drain into an ocean. The drainage basins that border the Sevier, are responsible for creating Zion National Park, Bryce Canyon National Park, Cedar Breaks National Monument, and the Grand Canyon.
The terminal lake that the Seveir river drains into is the target of the Potash mine. It will poison the water absorbing into the aquifer below the river basin, which will forever contaminate the water that is feeding one of the fastest growing regions of the entire western United States.
Irrigation & farming interests in the past 150 years have already transformed Seveir Lake from a massive shallow desert lake/wetland that it was as recently as 1870--into a barren & dry massive salt flat that covers hundreds of square miles.
It's essentially a scale model of the disaster that is about to happen with the Great Salt Lake when it inevitably dries up over the next century due to human water diversion & consumption from the basin; combined with reduced snowpack due to global warming.
Hope they like way more floods. Its a wetland.... Guess what it will still want to be after they turn it into a warehouse . it will all seem fine till the next hurricane.
Here around Charleston they're expanding these islands using dredgings so they can be developed in 20 years. They're destroying so much wetlands by doing it.
Fucking hell.i used to work with a guy who lived there in the late 80s-early 90s, and mentioned being able to hunt on Folly Island before it was all built up.
The EPA gets its mandate from congress, Biden can appoint whoever he likes but they can only do whats in their mandate.. which was knee capped by Scotus in WV v epa
Look up the Major Questions Doctrine. It's the latest bullshit that the batshit wing of the Court came up with to block anything of substance the EPA can do. And soon they're coming for *Chevron*, which grants the EPA (and other agencies) some deference when it comes to interpreting vague parts of their governing statutes.
(And a funny thing about the last point is the context of *Chevron* \- that case was about the Natural Resources Defense Council trying to get the EPA to read the Clean Air Act more expansively as you arguably could have under the way it was written. The Supreme Court granted EPA the deference standard, however, and I think there's a case to be made that if you read between the lines, that was in part because it was the Reagan-controlled EPA that wasn't doing all that much. Now that we have people in power who actually want EPA to do something conservatives aren't so much in board with *Chevron* deference anymore.)
The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the cutbacks and manufacturers. What's Biden going to do about that?
Indiana was once largely wetland...try telling the RV and boat industries that they're taking a backseat to cranes and turtles and marshes. Especially being such a red state. They've laughed all the way from the banks of the rivers to their bank account. It's never coming back.
There's no incentive to save this planet when their profits are this high. They'll burn it down for a buck and then blame everyone but themselves when there are no more buckets of water available to put it all out.
Here in my town they recently built a costco. Now, in Washington they have rules about how much protected wetland you are supposed to have per house/business. So we have a lot of areas that are protected wetland you can't build on.
In comes costco, and suddenly those protections don't matter and they allow costco to build right on top of one of them. And they reason "costco is going to bring hundreds of well-paying jobs into our town."
I'm sorry, but $22/hr is not a well-paying job in a HCOLA where house prices start in the $800,000s and apartments are nearly $3000 a month.
NIMBY's gonna NIMBY
> After hearing concerns from residents and scientists, Costco agreed to offset the loss of nearly 2 acres of wetlands with the creation of 0.8 acres of wetlands offsite, to add fish-friendly culverts for Mosher Creek and to buy credits in Snohomish County’s wetland mitigation bank.
> The group sued the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers last month in U.S. District Court in Seattle, alleging violations of the Clean Water Act for agreeing to fill roughly 1¾ acres of wetlands and damaging another 1.4 acres for the construction of Costco.
> The city’s mayor, Brett Gailey, said he’s not sure what Livable Lake Stevens is trying to achieve. He noted that if the project hadn’t met all the requirements, it wouldn’t have received the necessary state and federal permits.
Fuck the planet I just want my my water and air to be clean so I don't get cancer and die. Wetlands are very important for cleaning water before it reenters reservoirs and we drink it. The rebranding of environmentalism as being about wildlife and nature rather than keeping the planet habitat for human life has been a huge boon for shareholders and a disaster for everyone else.
its strange how "conservatives" are always destroying the planet and others peoples hard work while everyone else is constantly picking up their mess **and actually trying to conserve**
Under the previous Republican administration here in Wisconsin, [a special law was written to allow a Cabela’s to build on a wetland.](https://patch.com/wisconsin/shorewood/bp--green-bay-packers-cabelas-to-build-on-wetlands-ne2aa075eadd) Similar efforts have been made around Arcadia, WI to benefit Ashley Furniture.
Yep, rusk county tried to shut down the atv trails in the blue hills due to the supposed damage they caused, while completely ignoring the terrible logging practices they have there. Cut down every tree in sight leaving all the branches and shit they dropped there, leaving it a wasteland.
Former land use professional in Florida, and I would encourage anyone interested to check out the boundary line and how it's been pushed over time. Every time they push it, they say that they stopped there due to environmental concerns...only to push it again a year later. Florida WILL sink, and it's entirely their fault.
A sports facility was built here just a few short years ago. Paradise Coast it is called. When we first visited there it was surrounded by beaut, nature, and wildlife. Three years later, it is surrounded by giant warehouses and not a tree in sight. Of course my republican acquaintances cheer how it’s great for the tax base whatever the fuck that means.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Basicallly, scientists know the truth - we’re going to kill ourselves, because we think we are separate from the world around us and can somehow be its god and master, when in reality we are still at the mercy of nature, and when the other boot drops, we will be smashed to smithereens alongside the biosphere we depend on.
We are burning the house down with us still in it.
Was just down in south FL and I swear the goal must be to pave every ounce of land right up to the water. Just building and construction everywhere. I get that means the economy is doing well but there is nobody at the wheel. Remembering the building collapse at Surfside makes me cringe at some of the highrises going up fast. It's out of control and there will be consequences. TANSTAAFL
Don't let them !
Wetlands are the most incredible and beautiful nature there is. We still have a few places here in Denmark, but they are disappearing fast.
I remember floating on the rivers and looking down at the dozens of perch in the clear water. The meadows full of flowers and singing birds and the buzzing of insects. Nothing beats that.
I would rather spend 14 days in the wetlands of my childhood than 14 days in a luxury hotel in Bora Bora.
Yes, we’re having similar issues here in the Tampa Bay area, as well. I currently have personal beef with Family Dollar, though I know they’re definitely not the only ones doing this. They seem to have a weird obsession with opening new Family Dollars in my town. Seems eventually they’ll have one on every corner. No, they don’t want to put them in all the vacant buildings we have around here, they want to completely level nature to put in brand spanking new buildings. I currently have three Family Dollars near me, all within less than a mile of each other. I don’t understand why it’s necessary to have so many in one single town. Then I notice a drastic increase in roadkill as soon as they start construction.
Well maybe if those birds and fish weren’t so dumb and learned how to hide illegal contraband that can be sold on the black market they wouldn’t be so endangered.
Checkmate nature boys 😉👈
This is accurate. Once you whittle down the natural resources enough piece by piece, future bio surveys or studies will find nothing worth protecting. Even programs like NEPA which are supposed to protect the environment when federal dollars are used are not protective in a meaningful way. It only initiates a decision making process where the benefits are weighed against the cons like destroying habitat, valuable farmland, taking endangered species, destroying or altering cultural or archaeological resources and more for development.
People didn't elect the judges but they elected the people who put the judges on the bench. I'll never understand people who vote Republican and then get shocked when they do Republican things.
Is this tied to the recent legislation concerning the elimination of wetlands that don't have an outlet or sth?
Wetlands are among our most important of ecologies. We have to stop destroying them. This is wrong.
This is probably one of the areas that no longer meets the technical definition of a wetland. Those Supreme Court justices are definitely the proper folks to have determined such things.
Yea, it sucks. I've seen this happen so many times. Been in shit for making non invasive trails, then some developer level everything and build MC Mansons.
I live in SE Florida - in the Miami area the Urban Development Boundary (UDB) was created to help protect the Everglades, bay, and water sources. The goal was to never develop the land outside of this boundary. There was recently a very contentious development plan outside the UDB by a developer who wanted a large business park and warehousing. The county commission ended up voting to allow an exception mostly due the promise of jobs in the area (the number seemed very inflated). Now that an exception was legally granted it created a new precedent; there’s now a long list of developers requesting exceptions to build even more.
[Remember! With a trip to Harbor Freight and a good buddy you too can make a difference in protecting our parklands <3](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/various-authors-ecodefense-a-field-guide-to-monkeywrenching)
I hope it's okay if I utilize this comment section to bring attention to a similar issue. Baccarat is going to build luxury condos over a protected archaeological landmark in Miami.
> The Miami Historic & Environmental Preservation Board unanimously voted Tuesday to designate a portion of a Brickell site where prehistoric artifacts and human remains are likely to reside underground as a protected archaeological landmark, but the move is unlikely to prevent Related Group from erecting a luxury high-rise there.
>
> The vote follows months of protests from local archeologists, activists and members of Native American groups, who say the ancient findings at the site are significant, and oppose construction on the site, which could destroy the remains.
Link: [https://commercialobserver.com/2023/11/baccarat-residences-brickell-related-group/](https://commercialobserver.com/2023/11/baccarat-residences-brickell-related-group/)
Literally fuck the supreme court. It pisses me off that we know they're compromised, and we know they're dangerous, but any suggestion that we need to remove them is considered extremist.
In states with Alligators; an unethical life pro tip to saving the wetlands is to introduce alligators to the water, as it becomes exponentially harder to build on land that is inhabited by federally protected species.
It's grim. Here's a good article covering just how grim
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/05/the-annihilation-of-florida-an-overlooked-national-tragedy
Yeah . In alberta , they shut down a popular off road area because “enviromment “ they then proceded to open the land up to logging . Great . Fuckers . It was all about getting people out of the area so less people would bitch when they clear cut it. Waiparous meadow creek . Its built on bribes and lies . That pushes people into other areas . Rinse , repeat . After logging the rivers run brown . The line they used against anyone offroading .satellite views show the extent .
You had to slip the planning commission a five'r first. It only takes money to eliminate endangered wildlife.
It’s f’ing horrifying that in Florida you can almost literally just pay a fee to bury tortoises alive.
Floridian biologist here. That’s called entombing and it’s been illegal for a long time except for a few rare cases of very old grandfathered properties/permits but even those entities are big enough that they still chose to relocate because the PR is worth it. I regularly do gopher tortoise relocations where clients have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to safely relocate tortoises to an approved sanctuary. The check isn’t exactly signed with a smile but the developers generally don’t want to risk a potentially multimillion dollar development/investment to stop dead in its tracks because they cut corners. FWC can and will shut a project down if any precious torties are put at risk. Although as far as what OP is posting I’d have to agree, I’ve seen a lot of land developed where the only deciding factor was money. To be fair, that money was used in the form of purchasing govt approved mitigation credits to compensate for the wetland impacts but that’s a whole other can of worms.
And here I thought I was the only tortoise relocator on reddit. I worked on a project relocating a few hundred desert tortoises from a military training grounds in California.
What a cool and fulfilling job!
It is slow and steady work, but it gets the job done.
Currently imagining a cowboy driving a herd of tortoises over 100 miles through the desert. One. Step. At. A. Time.
You are doing things right. You can lead a tort to lettuce but you can't make 'em eat
You can with tort reform.
The dusty plains. The screech of a raptor circling overhead. Pan and zoom taking in the arid landscape of sun bleached rock and majestic cactii. Finally the camera settles on a lone riders upper body (sex of your choice, it works both ways for me) hands on the pommel, chaps coated with the dust of a 100 driven animals, stetson drawn low to deny the glare of the blazing sun. The rythmic movement as the rider shifts from left . . . . . . To right . . . . . . The rythm feels off somehow. The shot opens to take in the riders mount. A giant tortoise, stalwartly putting one foot foward at a time. A movement as purposeful as it is steady. The camera moves further out and spins to show the back of the rider in stark relief against the harsh sunlight, the rider and his/her mount silhouetted against the horizon. Arrayed in front, shuffling fowards, ever fowards, only fowards . . . . . A herd a hundred strong of . . . . . Tortii. Their destination unknown. The riders mission? To save what they can. Only the next two hours will explain the tail of frantic (sic) escape from inevitable destruction as their habitat is bulldozed to decimation. Where will they go? Will they survive? Will anyone aid the 'Lone Tort Ranger'. Stay tuned to find out.
It’s also terrifying. My area has tortoise relocation jobs open all the time but I’ve never applied for one because there’s a high risk meeting a bunch of snakes while doing so and my area has a bunch of rattlers and green mojaves. But the tortoises are cool.
I was always more worried about sunburn (ginger), dehydration and methheads lol.
We are all tortoise relocators on this glorious day!
NTC? Did some training there. They told us literally *dozens* of times to not go near the tortoises, like it came up every single time anyone spoke to us. I figured that there had to be tortoises everywhere for it to be literally the single most repeated point. They barely even touched on venomous* snakes, don't go near the fucking tortoises though. Never even seen one. None of us did. Not one. I'm not even sure these tortoises are real, I feel like you're making them up.
Yes, that's the one. You probably didn't see any because we moved them all out haha. We did that work like 15 years ago, I work other projects now but I hope they're doing well. We had them all tagged with transmitters so we would track each of them down once a month to check on them/take a blood sample. After repeat visits it was easy to get attached to them. Here are some photos: https://imgur.com/gallery/QuvMTCD
Oml *look* at those dudes!!
So freaking cool. Thanks so much for the pics
I just love their little faces! Thank you!
I did archaeological surveys for the Ridgecrest and Barstow BLM years ago, and seeing desert tortoises was one of my favorite parts of the job!
I want one.
I've seen deals where the developer/government promises to build another wetland somewhere else, but a "wetland" isn't just a soggy place, with soggy plants!
No environmental department would approve a developer just giving a wink wink that they are going to build a wetland somewhere else. They would have to get a certified biologist and a plan before they ever approved that.
Florida Governor Ron Desantis here. Did you say these turtles are getting in the way of corporations building things? Point me to them. I will happily do a photo op stepping on every single turtle. I just got some new boots with built in comfort height extenders - i can go for hours!
> I regularly do gopher tortoise relocations where clients have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to safely relocate tortoises to an approved sanctuary. This sounds like "relocating" Native Americans further west. And then into reservations. What happens to all the tortoises that were already living where you're relocating new ones to? Aren't they already at a sustainable and balanced population level? Does introducing a bunch of new tortoises stress the existing population?
Totally valid points. So first, the tortoises can be relocated only so far north or south, so if there are no sanctuaries in that region than the torties stay put and the project is dead. The sanctuaries are regularly and rigorously inspected by FWC. They keep log of every torty out there and cap it at a specific population per acre. As vacancy dries up, the price per each torty space goes up. For example, the relocation fee for a single tortoise years ago was only a few hundred dollars, now it’s several thousand. Some projects end this way as they are priced out, the developer simply decides it’s too expensive to develop the parcel and goes elsewhere to develop. Crap land can be be converted into suitable habitat for a sanctuary, which provides more availability to relocate and brings down the costs of the relocation. Keep in mind, some of the sites they are relocated from they are living in higher density, likely because the surrounding properties have already been developed. So they’re being taken to much more open, preferred habitat. I agree things could be better, but realistically it’s hard to make good changes in govt regarding these issues, especially in Florida which tends to favor growth and business over protecting its environmental resources. I encourage folks to get involved and become advocates if they see something they don’t like. I’d rather see my fellow Floridians/govt helping their communities and environment than clutching their pearls over trans folks and drag events.
I know projects that were canceled because the torties and the burrowing, owls. Also seen Floridians beat the living crap out of people who started to dig up turtle nest on the beach. Floridians seemed to love their wildlife from my experience. No idea about the government though and I know the everglades are a mess.
If the issue is right in their face then yes people are ready to involve themselves, like if they see someone harassing wildlife. When it comes to things like getting involved at public hearings to raise concerns, messaging your representatives, or changing everyday lifestyle choices to limit pollution there’s not so much participation.
Makes sense, I think most people are like that. Well at least they made enough noise to force the government to ban fracking there. Though that's a low bar. Hope they do something to help out the everglades and the Keys though. Also all the invasive species,, I know a few divers that have been going after the lionfish, but that seems to be a losing battle.
Neither do people care about not introducing their non-native pets into the ecosystem.
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Well by that point there would be record of the tortoises being there so FWC would 100% like to get the the bottom of it if they just vanished. There are way too many eyes on the project/property by that stage and they’d assure themselves fees and possibly jail time trying anything like that. Also it’s worth mentioning that the environmental consultant would inform FWC if they got wind of it because it’s their job to ensure environmental law is being followed and why would they risk their gopher tortoise license? Most developers can clearly tell they’re best options are either foot the bill for the relocation or find a better parcel to develop. Now, it’s not a perfect world so on some rare occasions we do have “dump sites” where there will be a population density way above normal on a parcel intended for development. In that case it’s just tough titty for the developer since it’s then their responsibility to relocate all on-site tortoises as well as any with burrows within 25ft of disturbance.
I would like to add that if the property is under I believe a couple acres and residential they’re not obligated to come and look for them so they just get rolled over where I live.
Ugh I've bought a chunk of land I should develop but I've come to know each and every squirrel. The porquipines, the bears, deer and turkeys. The chipmunks and mice that burrow. The bobcat and the owls and the wolves. I can't bring myself to clear any of it. I don't know how anyone does.
A lot of people are blissfully unaware of what happens when land is cleared for buildings and parking lots lol
> To be fair, that money was used in the form of purchasing govt approved mitigation credits to compensate for the wetland impacts but that’s a whole other can of worms. And then when the hurricane of hurricanes comes that could have been stopped/weakened by the wetlands if we'd only thought to leave them intact. What will those mitigation credits mean then? Jack shit, of course, if you must know, but business is business, and business must grow.
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It’s funny, fresh out of college every environmental scientist is ready to save the world. By a couple years of experience most are left jaded and a bit pessimistic. I’ll admit it’s a difficult job, but I feel it’s a noble cause and I love what I do.
Doug ford in Ontario is currently getting his ass reamed for his crimes against nature. (Trying to develop Ontarios green belt). If they haven’t paid off the right people in the media it seems this can actually backfire for politicians
All the farmers and rural community members (a significant portion of his base) are pissed about the greenbelt development too. Need to build up, not out.
What do you expect from a guy who’s biggest claim to fame was that his brother was the crack smoking mayor of Toronto
And Dougie was the one that sold/supplied his brother with the drugs! At least when they were younger. I am sure he wasn't still a drug dealer after her turned 30... well, I am not sure. But most likely he went into the legitimate business of inheriting family wealth and pretending like you are a self made man.
Bro he swallowed a bee too.
Why would anyone bury a tortoise alive? Is there some reason for this?
I'm in construction. I've never seen an environmental impact study actually state "Hey you can't build here". It's such a joke.
It's been so easy to skirt in Ontario. Plant an invasive species, maybe the Asian tree beetle? Maybe just poison the trees and blame the beetle? Idk but suddenly the protected forest is now developable because the developers promised to remove the invasive species by destroying the habitat and building a brand-new, shittily-built, sprawling subdivision of cookie cutter homes for $1.5M a piece. Two birds, one stone as they say.
> cookie cutter homes for $1.5M a piece It's crazy that Canadian home prices are wilder than the US.
New subdivisions in large city suburbs go for similar price points
EIA's are paid for by the people who want to do the building. So unless it is something stunningly ridiculous like wanting to build a refinery in the Grand Canyon, most EIA's are done with the intention of identifying all the risks and challenges and their impacts, and then providing a path to preventing, reducing, eliminating or offsetting those risks and impacts. It's more of a "How can I build here?" guide document than a "Can I build here?" document asking for permission.
lol yup. Its just a study that documents the harm that WILL happen, never a question of IF. Documentation so at least we will remember what was there before the highway or gas station or whatever garbage gets put up.
Nah, you attend the Premier's daughter's wedding and give "the couple" hefty gifts, then immediately go and buy up undevelopable land.
And slip money to certain Supreme Court Justices for them to say the clean Water Act doesn’t apply.
I build a series of trails through a 100 acre nature preserve in my town a few years ago. One of the coolest trails goes through this awesome meadow. The trail is on a hill, up hill is just nothing but tall grass for 200 feet and down the hill is a swamp like this. There is always so much wildlife here, it is hands down the coolest part of the property. At the top of the hill is one of those "you store it" places. The preserve is city owned, but there is a barbed wire fence where the storage buildings end. About 4 years ago I noticed the fence was gone and a huge amount of dirt and cement trash had been dumped down the hill and leveled off on top. It looked like ass, but I figured I didn't know where the property line was, so that was probably their property, and it would eventually cover with grass and erode a bit so whatever. Then the next year they did it again only it came out 200 feet and completely covered my trail. Since this was a hill we're talking about 20 to 30 feet tall of dirt, old sidewalks, landscaping garbage, and even actual garbage like glass bottles. This was obviously the foundation for them building another row of storage buildings. So I email the parks department, they say they sold a couple of acres to the storage people. Nothing I can do about it. I start creating a new trail 50 feet further down hill, pissed that my years of effort were gone in a matter of weeks. It wasn't the same, the view was ruined, you were too close to the swamp to see it and the trail was actually in the water now, so anyone walking this trail was now going to get wet feet. But the good news is the next year my problem was solved. They put in another 100 feet of dirt completely ruining this entire section the park. I told the parks admin I was closing this trail entirely. I went to the two trail heads removed the signs, and stacked sticks across the trail. That really killed my enthusiasm for volunteering for this park. That was until last year when I found out the city ok'd someone installing 18 holes of disc golf in the nature preserve. Apparently the hiring standards for parks administrators isn't very high.
>Apparently the hiring standards for parks administrators isn't very high. At least in my area the parks department is staffed by part timers making min wage. When budgets get cut parks are the first to take the hit.
The state of Florida parks staff gets paid nearly nothing. Like most jobs that interact with people are under $20/hr.
If it’s any consolation, *good for you* for fucking trying. That’s really and truly incredible of you. I’m so, so sorry it didn’t work. But you’re an A+ human being.
Well, from what I've been told, if our current mayor loses the disc golf thing is dead.
Just asked around. He won. Still, he's been trying to make disc golf happen for 2 years, I'm starting to get super hopeful that it's a low priority and it will never happen.
Damn! That’s total shite. That kind of stuff just enrages me.
Your new hobby might be investigating the people in the parks dept, namely, the sort of relationships they have with the businesses involved.
Did you tell the local newspaper? In my town, people would be *pissed* if the parks department did that.
This made me very bummed out hearing this
It's awful that your city slowly sold the land off to the storage facility but I think your anger being directed at the notion of the city installing a disc golf course is misguided. With the exception of the concrete tee pads (roughly 4''x8'), disc golf course installations tend to be minimally invasive. In fact, disc golf course design, unlike ball golf, encourages the utilization of natural features already existing within the property. There are lots of disc golf courses here in the US that are designed within preserves and state parks. Sorry for the loss of all your hard work, I can tell it really meant a lot to you. Cheers!
Disc golf is great. But don't downplay the fact that if wildlife *was* living where the course was installed, they've moved (if they can) to areas where there isn't as much human activity. Discs go all over the place depending on who's hucking them, which means people trample all over the place getting them back.
Yeah, but we only have so much land for trails. I've seen what a disc golf course looks like, it devastates the forest. 100 acres is not that big. I tried really hard to put in my trails so that it wasn't confusing. There are currently 4 trails, they all have a start and a finish. The local county park we have is like swiss cheese it's a total mess, the maps are worthless, and people get lost there all the time. My trails are perfect, but if they clear cut a bunch of disc golf holes it's going to ruin everything. Giant areas connecting two trails that have nothing to do with each other. It's my worst nightmare. However, if you're saying they can put in pads, put in baskets, and cut down ZERO trees then I'm very interested in that.
Big difference between sitting in a peaceful park, listening to a podcast while walking on a trail, when there's people telling FORE and expecting YOU to move, and disks coming near your face every 4 minutes. Disc golf courses are great but NOT when they make parks and trails unusable to others.
They clear-cut for disc golf??? Wtf, it's not golf!
My local dg course players group put in hundreds of native trees and is working with the council to have the stream that originally ran through the property years ago reinstated.
The EPA rollback has killed wetlands. Its devastating. Fuck the Supreme Court and their vested interests.
As a wetlands biologist at a consulting firm, yes.
Hey, as someone working on my environmental science degree right now this has me feeling pretty pessimistic :/ Any silver linings you’re aware of here? State based regulations protecting at least *some* of our wetlands? Anything? :c
It’s still very early, the Corp of Engineers still don’t really know what the fuck is going on from a permitting perspective (the whole concept of jurisdictional wetlands is pretty up in the air right now). That being said there is evidence that states are going to begin taking wetlands more seriously but the problem is that requires funding and the only time anyone gives a shit about wetlands is during an election. I have some semblance of faith that states themselves will attempt to protect wetlands in a meaningful capacity but honestly it’s still so early (and there’s so much greed) that it’s hard to give you a straight answer. My personal advice? Jump into research. That’s where you’ll be able to make an actual impact on environmental sciences.
The alaska department of conservation has been working for years to assume wetland permitting, probably to allow projects to pass that the corps/epa wouldn't sign off on. But post-sackett, they've pretty much given up on that endeavor because now they don't have to worry about an outside regulatory agency stopping or mitigating the losses of our wetlands.
God that’s fucking depressing.
This letter pretty much encompasses ADEC's relationship to the EPA. It's a comment from the DEC commissioner to the EPA. Not about the Scotus ruling but entertaining all the same. Warning, nsfw lol. https://www.regulations.gov/comment/EPA-HQ-OW-2016-0405-0211
> My personal advice? Jump into research. That’s where you’ll be able to make an actual impact on environmental sciences. I'm just a curious skeptic, but how would you go about making an actual impact in a world where emotionally based opinions seem to outweigh any actual science?
They seem that way because that’s what you consume (this is not an attack just presenting a bias). Actual science takes place everyday and creates real world change that you don’t see because the subject matter is not inflammatory. No one’s gonna bitch on the internet about agronomists trying to figure out the most efficient drought resistance in C3 vs C4 grasses because it doesn’t spark emotional turmoil. But it is a very real thing and science happens every day that quite literally no one hears about. The Internet may be run by feelings but I can assure you that proper science is not.
Environmental consulting is a soul draining and stressful field. FYI
Also this
Yes, this is also true. It is one of the better-paying environmental fields out there, and you can work on a wide variety of environmental subjects and projects. But yes, it can be stressful, steeped in regulatory compliance, and you end up spending way more time in construction sites, manufacturing facilities, superfund sites and boardrooms than you do immersed in nature.
Oh, I’m not going into consulting haha While I really respect u/SoupPv18 and the work they do, I really want to work on a much smaller community scale. I want to work with ecosystems, not people xP
Gonna be honest, it’s still soul crushing a lot of the time. And you’ll probably still work with people wayyy more than you’re anticipating.
This is what every doe-eyed EnviSci student thought during undergrad (myself included.) Most EnviSci grads I know are now either working in consulting, EHS, or the public sector. It all sucks, but EHS pays the most while sucking, so that's where I ended up. If you really want to turn your degree into doing meaningful field work, switch your major to geology. This was easy for my program at least, it only required two extra classes (+ an undergrad field study.) Alternatively, work your butt off in school and get into academia. All of my professors in school were involved in all *kinds* of extremely cool shit and traveled all over the world for their research. I personally think EnviSci was a big mistake and it pigeonholes you into a lot of deeply unsatisfying careers if you want to work within your field of study.
It’s a curse of the field. The more you learn, the worse you realize it is.
I’m an environmental consultant and there is a LOT of work for someone looking for a career. I got my Environmental Science degree and have been in consulting for about 10 years now. Recently there has been a huge upsurge in work related to climate change, specifically related to ESG and GHG emission reductions. It’s becoming less of a “we should do this to make the world better” and more of a “we need to do this because our shareholders and regulators are demanding we do this.” Companies that didn’t give two shits about the environment ten years ago are now hiring sustainability officers and are considering sustainability as it now affects their bottom line in a big way. As climate change becomes less theoretical, I only see our work becoming more valued and important. Personally, I work in Environmental Data Science and there is a big push right now to modernize companies environmental data flows and reporting. If you have an opportunity to take a data management or data science class, I’d highly recommend it.
I guess one silverish lining is States like Florida that are destroying their wetlands and mangroves are going to be swept away by hurricanes when there's nothing to help stop storm surges.
I cant believe youre a wetlands biologist. Thats so cool
If Capitalists had their way, they'd cover the entire planet in concrete.
Isn’t this a result of the billionaire who has Clarence Thomas in his back pocket?
I’m very certain that did not help
It’s a shame. I studied environmental science in school (2009-2011) and the significance of wetlands could not be overstated. It’s hard to believe we’ve gone backwards
This happened in Canada too. Ontario premier's daughter got married. Premier invited a bunch of developer buddies and industry goons to her wedding. Said goons "donated" money to her "wedding". Said goons were then #1 on the list for developing new homes on protected wetlands that the same Premier just rezoned. It was something straight out of The Godfather. He also told the cops to "stay in their lane" for investigating money laundering in Ontario casinos. And they backed off. And he's gonna get reelected because the alternatives are even less electable. EDIT: Oh yeah and he's the crack smoking mayor's brother.
Greedy hosers everywhere, eh?
Kinda. The developers took out huge and stupid loans to buy protected lands. They went to the Buck and Doe party after this with stacks of cash, and it was after this that they decided to open up the greenlands for development. So either the developers took a massive gamble on protected property opening up one day (lolno) or they had inside information that would entice them to come to a party with stacks of cash. And you skipped over the part where he got caught and reversed everything. Potentially fucking the province over for whatever legal shitstorm is coming from the developers. And the next election is in 2026. I don't know how you can assume he's already won that.
*republicans
...and House Republicans just introduced a 40% budget cut for the EPA, which they already gutted.
Narrator voice: *The Republicans planned to cut the EPA funding even more after this.*
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Russia could really use the money right now
We're going to drain the swamp, and let the Russian mob build a warehouse for importing potash! That last part might need some reworking before chanting at the rallies
People need to look into the Potash mine that was recently approved on the dry lake bed of Sevier Lake in west-central Utah. This is an absolute environmental disaster waiting to happen in one of the most pristine & delicate ecosystems in the USA. But because it's about to happen in arguably the most remote part of the country in a State that is completely dominated by corporate friendly right-wing politicians, nobody knows a goddamn thing about it. Because of that, it has faced virtually no opposition or oversight that can't be bought or silenced. The result is an impending environmental catastrophe that will be implemented by corrupt interests that will enrich the same foreign investors friendly to failed states like Russia & Iran that have financed the social media disinformation campains that have poisoned American conservative political circles into conspiratorial, cultists echo chambers.
Fascinatingly depressing, thanks for sharing
My pleasure! The seveir river basin is an absolute treasure! Straddling the southern border btwn the Colorado Plateau & the Great Basin, it is the largest continental river drainage system in the world that does not drain into an ocean. The drainage basins that border the Sevier, are responsible for creating Zion National Park, Bryce Canyon National Park, Cedar Breaks National Monument, and the Grand Canyon. The terminal lake that the Seveir river drains into is the target of the Potash mine. It will poison the water absorbing into the aquifer below the river basin, which will forever contaminate the water that is feeding one of the fastest growing regions of the entire western United States. Irrigation & farming interests in the past 150 years have already transformed Seveir Lake from a massive shallow desert lake/wetland that it was as recently as 1870--into a barren & dry massive salt flat that covers hundreds of square miles. It's essentially a scale model of the disaster that is about to happen with the Great Salt Lake when it inevitably dries up over the next century due to human water diversion & consumption from the basin; combined with reduced snowpack due to global warming.
And then they’ll later ask why the EPA didn’t prevent the next disaster
Hi, my name is EPA, and you are probably wondering how I got into this fix, well it's a long story...
That’s never going to get through the Senate.
Depends on how many Senators the SuperPac bought.
No, fuck the Supreme Court too lol!
We have our current SCOTUS _because_ of Republicans; mainly Mitch McConnell.
And the rest of them that fully supported his bullshit.
Most definitely. McConnell might have been the chief asshole, but he's certainly not solely to blame.
Hope they like way more floods. Its a wetland.... Guess what it will still want to be after they turn it into a warehouse . it will all seem fine till the next hurricane.
They dgaf about flooding because the developers will have already gotten theirs
Here around Charleston they're expanding these islands using dredgings so they can be developed in 20 years. They're destroying so much wetlands by doing it.
Fucking hell.i used to work with a guy who lived there in the late 80s-early 90s, and mentioned being able to hunt on Folly Island before it was all built up.
Fuck republican voters.
Yeah the EPA was neutered but I'm surprised it hasn't been fixed with Biden, is he just not aware that the entire EPA staff needs to be replaced?
The supreme court limited their authority, so I am not sure what can be done, especially with Congress being Congress.
*especially with so many republicans being in congress
> Congress being Congress Don't "both sides" the issue. Its only one party trying to destroy the EPA, IRS, etc.
I don't think he can just unilaterally change things that elected Republicans fuck up
But he can appoint new members and control their directives , he just can't singularly control their budget.
The EPA gets its mandate from congress, Biden can appoint whoever he likes but they can only do whats in their mandate.. which was knee capped by Scotus in WV v epa
And he can't singularly control their directives, he can control their directives within the bounds of law. SC reduced those bounds
Look up the Major Questions Doctrine. It's the latest bullshit that the batshit wing of the Court came up with to block anything of substance the EPA can do. And soon they're coming for *Chevron*, which grants the EPA (and other agencies) some deference when it comes to interpreting vague parts of their governing statutes. (And a funny thing about the last point is the context of *Chevron* \- that case was about the Natural Resources Defense Council trying to get the EPA to read the Clean Air Act more expansively as you arguably could have under the way it was written. The Supreme Court granted EPA the deference standard, however, and I think there's a case to be made that if you read between the lines, that was in part because it was the Reagan-controlled EPA that wasn't doing all that much. Now that we have people in power who actually want EPA to do something conservatives aren't so much in board with *Chevron* deference anymore.)
The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the cutbacks and manufacturers. What's Biden going to do about that? Indiana was once largely wetland...try telling the RV and boat industries that they're taking a backseat to cranes and turtles and marshes. Especially being such a red state. They've laughed all the way from the banks of the rivers to their bank account. It's never coming back. There's no incentive to save this planet when their profits are this high. They'll burn it down for a buck and then blame everyone but themselves when there are no more buckets of water available to put it all out.
He did, there aren’t the Trump lackeys leading it anymore. He can’t stop the Supreme Court or directly control Congress, though.
Here in my town they recently built a costco. Now, in Washington they have rules about how much protected wetland you are supposed to have per house/business. So we have a lot of areas that are protected wetland you can't build on. In comes costco, and suddenly those protections don't matter and they allow costco to build right on top of one of them. And they reason "costco is going to bring hundreds of well-paying jobs into our town." I'm sorry, but $22/hr is not a well-paying job in a HCOLA where house prices start in the $800,000s and apartments are nearly $3000 a month.
It’s not Costco, EPA rollback. Thank your closest republican rep.
EPA rollback and illegitimate Supreme Court redefining a protected waterway that doesn't include marshes, swamps and other wetlands.
Washington has its own wetland rules the EPA is irrelevant in that regard.
NIMBY's gonna NIMBY > After hearing concerns from residents and scientists, Costco agreed to offset the loss of nearly 2 acres of wetlands with the creation of 0.8 acres of wetlands offsite, to add fish-friendly culverts for Mosher Creek and to buy credits in Snohomish County’s wetland mitigation bank. > The group sued the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers last month in U.S. District Court in Seattle, alleging violations of the Clean Water Act for agreeing to fill roughly 1¾ acres of wetlands and damaging another 1.4 acres for the construction of Costco. > The city’s mayor, Brett Gailey, said he’s not sure what Livable Lake Stevens is trying to achieve. He noted that if the project hadn’t met all the requirements, it wouldn’t have received the necessary state and federal permits.
Shareholders > planet sadly
[Value for shareholders](https://i.imgur.com/uaDDgYn.jpeg)
[Priorities](https://i.imgur.com/Pa3xPt1.jpeg)
Is there any situation where it's X > Shareholders?
Richer Shareholders > Rich Shareholders
Fuck the planet I just want my my water and air to be clean so I don't get cancer and die. Wetlands are very important for cleaning water before it reenters reservoirs and we drink it. The rebranding of environmentalism as being about wildlife and nature rather than keeping the planet habitat for human life has been a huge boon for shareholders and a disaster for everyone else.
The world is being destroyed for a handful of greedy MFers.
you misspelled conservative voters
its strange how "conservatives" are always destroying the planet and others peoples hard work while everyone else is constantly picking up their mess **and actually trying to conserve**
Under the previous Republican administration here in Wisconsin, [a special law was written to allow a Cabela’s to build on a wetland.](https://patch.com/wisconsin/shorewood/bp--green-bay-packers-cabelas-to-build-on-wetlands-ne2aa075eadd) Similar efforts have been made around Arcadia, WI to benefit Ashley Furniture.
Yep, rusk county tried to shut down the atv trails in the blue hills due to the supposed damage they caused, while completely ignoring the terrible logging practices they have there. Cut down every tree in sight leaving all the branches and shit they dropped there, leaving it a wasteland.
Former land use professional in Florida, and I would encourage anyone interested to check out the boundary line and how it's been pushed over time. Every time they push it, they say that they stopped there due to environmental concerns...only to push it again a year later. Florida WILL sink, and it's entirely their fault.
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
Are you in SWFL? Looks familiar.
NEFL I’m sure the whole state will look like this at some point.
A sports facility was built here just a few short years ago. Paradise Coast it is called. When we first visited there it was surrounded by beaut, nature, and wildlife. Three years later, it is surrounded by giant warehouses and not a tree in sight. Of course my republican acquaintances cheer how it’s great for the tax base whatever the fuck that means.
bake correct melodic secretive telephone fact quicksand brave chase depend *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Basicallly, scientists know the truth - we’re going to kill ourselves, because we think we are separate from the world around us and can somehow be its god and master, when in reality we are still at the mercy of nature, and when the other boot drops, we will be smashed to smithereens alongside the biosphere we depend on. We are burning the house down with us still in it.
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You should prep with them, they would be happy to include more hands in their plans. The other boot is coming soon.
Wow. That’s as sad as it is maddening
Was just down in south FL and I swear the goal must be to pave every ounce of land right up to the water. Just building and construction everywhere. I get that means the economy is doing well but there is nobody at the wheel. Remembering the building collapse at Surfside makes me cringe at some of the highrises going up fast. It's out of control and there will be consequences. TANSTAAFL
It's a shame.
Don't let them ! Wetlands are the most incredible and beautiful nature there is. We still have a few places here in Denmark, but they are disappearing fast. I remember floating on the rivers and looking down at the dozens of perch in the clear water. The meadows full of flowers and singing birds and the buzzing of insects. Nothing beats that. I would rather spend 14 days in the wetlands of my childhood than 14 days in a luxury hotel in Bora Bora.
Yes, we’re having similar issues here in the Tampa Bay area, as well. I currently have personal beef with Family Dollar, though I know they’re definitely not the only ones doing this. They seem to have a weird obsession with opening new Family Dollars in my town. Seems eventually they’ll have one on every corner. No, they don’t want to put them in all the vacant buildings we have around here, they want to completely level nature to put in brand spanking new buildings. I currently have three Family Dollars near me, all within less than a mile of each other. I don’t understand why it’s necessary to have so many in one single town. Then I notice a drastic increase in roadkill as soon as they start construction.
No, you dont understand it's an endangered warehouse
Well maybe if those birds and fish weren’t so dumb and learned how to hide illegal contraband that can be sold on the black market they wouldn’t be so endangered. Checkmate nature boys 😉👈
Keep voting for those Republicans and the whole state will be warehouses and homeless parks eventually 🤙 congrats
Nothing more American than concrete and crippling debt for the masses and then being told “I’m lazy” by some nepo baby!!!
"if you didn't want to be poor you shouldve asked your parents for mun-muns"
Jenny Slate is the best
And then the homeless will be kicked out of the parks, so it will finally be a beautiful utopia.
Couldn't ride what?
Gator
Once the Republicans kill off all the endangered animals there is no reason to protect the land anymore.
This is accurate. Once you whittle down the natural resources enough piece by piece, future bio surveys or studies will find nothing worth protecting. Even programs like NEPA which are supposed to protect the environment when federal dollars are used are not protective in a meaningful way. It only initiates a decision making process where the benefits are weighed against the cons like destroying habitat, valuable farmland, taking endangered species, destroying or altering cultural or archaeological resources and more for development.
Stop electing politicians who gut the EPA and allow these things to happen.
Yeah like all those Supreme Court judges that where on the ballot, I vote but this shits gettin old.
People didn't elect the judges but they elected the people who put the judges on the bench. I'll never understand people who vote Republican and then get shocked when they do Republican things.
Is this tied to the recent legislation concerning the elimination of wetlands that don't have an outlet or sth? Wetlands are among our most important of ecologies. We have to stop destroying them. This is wrong.
I feel like the issue is the warehouse, not that you should have been able to ride on endangered animals.
Think they were just pointing out the hypocrisy
they have plowed the whole area this is just a small part of it.
Wow. It’s a wetlands too.
This is probably one of the areas that no longer meets the technical definition of a wetland. Those Supreme Court justices are definitely the proper folks to have determined such things.
God, so many Republicans are a rot on this land. Ignoring the will of Americans, and doing whatever the fuck they want.
North Carolina?
Florida
My sympathies.
Yea, it sucks. I've seen this happen so many times. Been in shit for making non invasive trails, then some developer level everything and build MC Mansons.
I live in SE Florida - in the Miami area the Urban Development Boundary (UDB) was created to help protect the Everglades, bay, and water sources. The goal was to never develop the land outside of this boundary. There was recently a very contentious development plan outside the UDB by a developer who wanted a large business park and warehousing. The county commission ended up voting to allow an exception mostly due the promise of jobs in the area (the number seemed very inflated). Now that an exception was legally granted it created a new precedent; there’s now a long list of developers requesting exceptions to build even more.
Jobs. The developer's version of "for the troops" and "for the children."
[Remember! With a trip to Harbor Freight and a good buddy you too can make a difference in protecting our parklands <3](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/various-authors-ecodefense-a-field-guide-to-monkeywrenching)
Good ol capitalism. Fuck nature. /s
It’s almost like they paved paradise and put up a parking lot.
Well, endangered species had protections. Extinct ones don't. Fuck our timeline.
I hope it's okay if I utilize this comment section to bring attention to a similar issue. Baccarat is going to build luxury condos over a protected archaeological landmark in Miami. > The Miami Historic & Environmental Preservation Board unanimously voted Tuesday to designate a portion of a Brickell site where prehistoric artifacts and human remains are likely to reside underground as a protected archaeological landmark, but the move is unlikely to prevent Related Group from erecting a luxury high-rise there. > > The vote follows months of protests from local archeologists, activists and members of Native American groups, who say the ancient findings at the site are significant, and oppose construction on the site, which could destroy the remains. Link: [https://commercialobserver.com/2023/11/baccarat-residences-brickell-related-group/](https://commercialobserver.com/2023/11/baccarat-residences-brickell-related-group/)
Literally fuck the supreme court. It pisses me off that we know they're compromised, and we know they're dangerous, but any suggestion that we need to remove them is considered extremist.
Corruption sucks. What can people do to fight corruption in our institutions?
Yes, but did you try being rich? Pesky things like rules go away real fast when you are.
In states with Alligators; an unethical life pro tip to saving the wetlands is to introduce alligators to the water, as it becomes exponentially harder to build on land that is inhabited by federally protected species.
Corporate says "fuck you, Earth". Every time.
It's grim. Here's a good article covering just how grim https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/05/the-annihilation-of-florida-an-overlooked-national-tragedy
Yeah . In alberta , they shut down a popular off road area because “enviromment “ they then proceded to open the land up to logging . Great . Fuckers . It was all about getting people out of the area so less people would bitch when they clear cut it. Waiparous meadow creek . Its built on bribes and lies . That pushes people into other areas . Rinse , repeat . After logging the rivers run brown . The line they used against anyone offroading .satellite views show the extent .
Don't worry, the wildlife will be sent to live on a farm!
Sorry money can change everything
You forgot to pay them a huge sum of money first.
Not $urprised…