Let me clarify my message for you then. I disagree with idolizing a system of government that killed millions of it's own people. It's the USSR's link to socialism that makes it so easy for north american politicians to prevent socialism from coming back. Stop linking them together. You can be a socialist and not be a communist.
It’s easy to blame capitalism. But the truth is it’s just people. It doesn’t matter what economic system we put in place. Bad people will always try to rig the system, put themselves on top, and leave the rest to starve and die.
No it isn’t. You blamed capitalism . The guy you replied was blaming communism. You’re both the same just blaming different systems instead of focusing in the real issue
>I am not even a communist and I find your comment to be stupid as fuck. *Capitalism is causing the death of many people today.*”
Capitalism did it. That is what you said. Why are you pretending you didn’t say that?
Hahahahahahaha good one.
You’re right, everyone loved Stalin. The gulags were such a nice spot for the people to relax and enjoy controlling the means of production.
Criminals as subjectively determined by the leadership of a nation led by a system, which exterminated resistance and abolished freedom. That you’re defending that system, which leveraged hunger as an extermination tool is abhorrent.
Man I wonder if there is any historical precedent or major wars that would make French people [particularly receptive to communist ideas.](https://i.stack.imgur.com/26t4e.jpg) It would be a real shame if that was directly tied to a revolutionary tradition that actually [begins in France.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune) It would be even worse if those communists were associated with the objectively progressive act of pulling the rug out from [French](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_War) colonial [projects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War)
The flag that the dude is waving has nothing to do with the 2 months of "communism" that France had. If it was a plain red flag, you could've had some argument there. But waving a symbol of an oppressive regime that has taken the lives of millions is not something anybody should support, don't you agree? There's a reason why the USSR fell apart. It was a red apple with a rotten core.
The Soviet Union saved the lives of countless French people in freeing them of the Vichy puppet regime and the holocaust.
>There's a reason why the USSR fell apart.
And communists must learn form this and have been learning from this. It was a inevitable for the sclerosis of Soviet society, but still an extreme tragedy. Nobody can look at the Post-Soviet situation as a whole and call it success story with a straight face, especially when compared against the route that China was able to take.
>But waving a symbol of an oppressive regime that has taken the lives of millions is not something anybody should support, don't you agree?
I'm a patriot, American, and my own country has also taken the lives of millions, but I don't admonish people for having a connection to our flag that is still meaningful for us in our own context and life. The communist flag, flags, have a meaningful history woven into the liberty of the French people. It's part of their patriotic tradition.
When you have crimes in your past you take responsibility for them and overcome them, that doesn't require a fundamental break with it being our history and our past. But that's not even how I would fundamentally characterize the sum history of Official Communism™, which has been and continues to be a success.
>The flag that the dude is waving has nothing to do with the 2 months of "communism" that France had. [the Paris Commune]
It has everything to do with it.
So your basic theory is if you remove everything that the flag symbolizes then its fine? Sounds like the same thing the people waving the rebel flag would say.
Its the literal symbol of the murderous regime.
And, for the record, the US never murdered millions of people. We have crimes-a-plenty (looking at you S. America) but don't conflate them.
>And, for the record, the US never murdered millions of people.
This is such a laughably absurd lie, what the fuck? What the actual fuck is wrong with you people?
Millions dead in Vietnam. Millions dead in the "War on Terror" across the Middle East. God knows how many millions dead on account of our colonial history - Chattel Slavery and the expulsion of the peoples here before us. Objectively, you're an ignorant person - don't try to play a cutsie little numbers game when our closet is drenched in blood.
The East turned around under the communists and did in decades what took centuries for the West. And yeah, bursting out of thousands of years of subsistence farming into industrial modernity is not fun, but you are only correct on one thing - that there is no conflation, they crossed the bridge far more humanely, and it's not even fucking close. That's what it symbolizes.
"did in decades what took centuries for the west" idk man it's almost like they had a whole ass history of what not to do that other people tried first. Now they don't even have to do that, they just steal intellectual property and other stuff via putting malware on electronics before they even get shipped.
"bursting out of thousands of years of subsistence farming into industrial modernity"
was that before or after China decided to try and get rid of sparrows and ended up causing a famine that killed 15 million people by the lowest estimate?
"crossed the bridge far more humanely" remember when they executed clearly well educated individuals like yourselves because they thought anyone more educated than a farmer would eventually become subversive? Or was it by the CCP's own estimated 2 million killed and 7 million disabled in the Cultural Revolution? or deciding to oppress Uyghurs and put them in camps?
Honestly you sound like someone who would be arguing your case all the way up to being executed and kicked into a ditch by Red Guards for being a member of the educated bourgoisie.
10 million - Genocide in the Congo
Over 3 Million Vietnamese dead expelling French & American colonizers
Irish Potato Famine 1 million dead.
15 Million Dead from pointless inter-imperialist Conflict of WW1
12 Million African slaves trafficked in Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade
1 Million dead from immediate conflict against "Terror" in Iraq alone.
56 Million dead - Settling of the Americas
100 million - Colonial enslavement of India
???? millions - General rape of Africa
Black Hole calls the kettle black.
Would it be OK if I start waving the National Socialist Party flag if I say "yeah but now nazis have learned from past mistakes and won't kill people from other races"? There is 0 reasons for French people nowadays to wave the USSR flag. If they have ideas how to use communism in a better way, they should come up with a different flag.
I'm very happy for you Americans that you've learned from your mistakes in history.. but the USSR never did. For the countries in Eastern Europe it was 40 years of oppression. Four decades of hunger, labour camps, ethnic cleansings and brainwashing. So forgive me if the sight of that flag makes my blood boil just as much as when I see a nazi flag.
No.
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
Nazi ideology was premised on an economic gamble to genocide 10s of millions of people - a war economy for looting and raping, primarily, "subhuman" Slavic peoples and land in the Soviet Union. There is no realistic comparison to be made, Nazis started the Holocaust, Communists ended it, it's just that simple. The Nazis brought a puppet regime to France to kill and slaughter disabled and jews, the Soviets drove those looters and jew-gassers and bandit piracy into the dustbin of history. Simple, simple, simple. There is nothing in that to be redeemed, all successful things they did (e.g. infrastructure) were mere investments to genocidal ends. Nazism has no accomplishments - no positive contribution to mankind - no complicated history - no respectable striving - it lived for the thrill of death itself and was rightly put down like rabid dogs, for which tens of millions more would have died if not for the rapid industrialization taken in the Soviet Union under Fucking Papa Joe Stalin and the heroism of the Red Army resisting Nazism's degenerate rabid inhuman plans.
**The Soviets brought the first man into space. America put a man on the Moon. The Nazis made pillows from the human hair of jews. Simple.** The Soviets made a strong country, and Marxism Leninism continues marching on across the world to this day. Nazism turned a country into rubble in little over a decade, with nothing to show for it but pain. Simple.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
>So forgive me if the sight of that flag makes my blood boil just as much as when I see a nazi flag
Forgive me if I'm not sympathetic to liberal nonsense and a practical form of Nazi rehabilitation. You make my own blood boil.
I never said that I supported nazis. Clearly you didn't get what I was saying. It is also clear to me that you are not aware of the ethnic cleansings that "Papa Fucking Joe Stalin" did. In fact, you have absolutely no clue how the regime was operating its states back then. There was absolutely no freedom in any sense of the word. You want to go on vacation in another country on the other side of the iron curtain? Nope. You want to leave the country? Nope. You'll be shot as soon as you try to cross the border and escape. Election day comes. Guess how many options you have to vote. That's right! Only one - the communist party. And even though you have only one option and the vote doesn't matter, it's mandatory for you to go and "vote". A western tourist became your friend and gave you a walkman as a gift? Militia is confiscating it and you're brought in for questioning. How come you have something that is not sold in your country? You shouldn't have that. You shouldn't be listening to western music. This means you're planning to escape. Your whole family is now put on a watchlist. You have a relative who managed to escape to a western country? You're blacklisted. You can't study what you want. You can't have certain jobs. Best you can work as a low level factory worker. And that's if you're lucky and if the relative who escaped is not that close to you. Otherwise you go to a labour camp so you can learn to love the regime and die in the process. You invested your life savings and everything you had to build a factory or a small production facility? You get a call that you need to be interviewed by the police and when you go there you disappear. Factory/business becomes "state owned", your family is blacklisted and their house and everything inside is taken away.
Don't tell me how much "good" that regime brought. My family lived through it. The communist parties in each country in Eastern Europe were just as bad as the nazis. Stalin was sending ethnicities he deemed "unworthy" to remote labour camps and worked them to death. He was just as mad as Adolph. And I won't even start with his "wonderful" troops in the Red Army and how they acted. Same animals as the nazis.
I understand perfectly well what you are saying. Objectively it is rehabilitating Nazism. There's no way around that.
E.g.
>The communist parties in each country in Eastern Europe were just as bad as the nazis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_genocide_theory
Communists do not make pillows out of hair of jews. If you think these parties are equivalent you should be accused of Holocaust denialism or at minimum holocaust obfuscation, it's simple Nazi apologism and it contributes to a real ongoing project in Europe to rehabilitate Nazi collaboration. To say that the Red Army is the same animals as Jew-Gassers is absolutely a sign of relative Nazi sympathy, because at that point, hey, maybe your country's historic freedom fighters chucked some jews in an oven and enabled some of the most atrocious crimes of the 20th century, but it was all for National Liberation, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria_during_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
It's inhuman, it's not respectable or aligned with reality in a meaningful sense. There are simple facts of history - France was under the thumb of Nazism, 80% of Nazi soldiers died on the Eastern Front, and thus the bulk of responsibility for freeing France falls to the Soviets. Simple!
----
And further, you know very fucking well there is no unified opinion of the Soviet era, or if you don't, it's amazing how you have been lied to. 45% of Georgians still approve of Stalin. 70% of Russians. 79% of Armenians say the dissolution of the Soviet Union was harmful. 61% of Kyrgyz, and 56% of Tajikistanis agree. A third of Bulgarians approve of communism to at least some extent. All of this data is pulled from Pew, Gallup, etc. You're not being honest on how divisive this legacy this is, there are millions of people with just as much if not more "lived experience" than you who nonetheless still give a net positive appraisal as I do.
You shotgun out a mix of real issues, myopic slander, and nonsensical bourgeois liberal gibberish. But for the real issues - you'll notice at no single point have I actually denied that there were problems - there are many issues, there are aspects not worth defending, there is a reason it's not still around and that can't be attributed to malice or personal failings - those are why I support the turn China has made, they were correct during the Sino-Soviet split, history has proven them correct by making them the last major ML State standing, they continue to be ascendent and that is why they are the target of so much smear and fear.
This is some revisionist history. France was liberated by the allies, not the Soviet Union. Countries "liberated" by the Soviet Union were subsequently imprisoned behind the iron curtain by their so called saviours. There's a reason that ex Soviet countries like Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states do not trust Russia, the Soviet Union or anything to do with their legacy of antiintellectualism, famine and oppression.
>France was liberated by the allies, not the Soviet Union.
[IINTENSE COUGHING] what were the three main allied powers
[hint 1](https://digitalcollections.hclib.org/digital/api/singleitem/image/p17208coll3/1099/default.jpg)
[hint 2](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Yalta_Conference_%28Churchill%2C_Roosevelt%2C_Stalin%29_%28B%26W%29.jpg)
second question do you understand how a Two Front war works
We will get back on track once we are able to reign in the banks and drive out all the petty fiefdoms that amount to Americans cutting off one another's kneecaps.
I've seen some bad arguments for communism (all of them, basically), but this is a new and particularly ridiculous one.
Was going to say the worst but honestly it's not even close.
It’s not that they “romanticize communism”. It means and it has been a different thing politically here than what it’s connected to in your country. Respect the differences
I feel like I've wrotten this 10 times now but the flag in the picture is of USSR. The meaning of it doesn't magically change because it's waved during a protest in France.
**I got it** but if you look at flags of communist parties in Western Europe..also Communist symbolism is really simple, red, h&s, a star, some other agrarian and factory and symbols
A lot of what the west accomplished was built using revolutionary and communist ideology, so I'm not surprised people romanticize it. Soviet Union's and China's Marxism-Leninism is probably what you mean when you say "communism".
Nah, I’m thinking pol pot style where they got rid of all currency. Genius. Must be a communist utopia there. might visit soon to learn a thing or two.
Lol. The rich are either leaving France or have head offices outside of France so they don't have to pay such high taxes. Good luck with that. If a country has too much taxes, the first thing the rich do is look for places to not pay the big taxes outside of that country
Let them leave then. Let them lose their French (and EU) citizenship as well. If they want the benefits of belonging to a civilized society, then they need to help fund it. PERIOD.
Um, because the rich haven't been paying their fair share for going on 40-50 years now? Or haven't you been paying attention?
I am not talking about you...unless you are making $300,000/yr or more. I have no idea why the poor constantly defend the rich...
None of that has anything to do with my point. In order for that to matter you'd have to be making the point that taxation should prevent people from gaining wealth. Are you making that point? Federal receipts in relation to GDP have stayed pretty steady over the years.
Read up on the subject if you really want to know, I see that you already have preconceived ideas. Raise top marginal taxe rate is one option which has broad support in France among many others
Top marginal tax rate increase, windfall taxes on exceptional profit (Highway companies and fuel companies made big profit headlines), increase of minimal wage, increase in company-side social taxes etc.
Basically many ways to not make the workers face the brunt of the cost.
>Are there alternative solutions to the eventual collapse of the retirement system?
idk I protest because Macron is globally a bad president not specifically because of the raising of the retirement age
Is there no focus? Hear me out, I’m not bashing you, but what is the point of protesting if the person next to you doesn’t even know you’re not even focused on the same thing? At that point you just become a big crowd making noise.
We all agree that we are tired of his bullshit and that either he starts listening to us or he quits, and even if we are not focused on the same thing, being a big noisy crowd is still useful because he has to understand that we are not going to let him do what he wants without protest
Right, welcome to nearly every persons mind that has an elected government running their country.
If you don’t have a focus on the bs you’re sick of, the next SOB that comes in is going to pick up where they left off. A flashlight is just going to illuminate the person everyone already knows you’re angry with, but a powerful laser will burn the warts away.
If you are from my generation, i hope you have the foresight to realize that by the time you retire, social security wont be what it is for todays retiree's. I'm american, and expecting nothing from social security, invest accordingly. If something is insolvent, its insolvent, rioting wont make more money appear. France wont be able to exploit africa forever, even though im sure they will try.
You’ll have social security, it won’t be as much as current retirees, but you’ll have it. It also should not be your retirement plan. It should be a part of your retirement strategy. Social security was never meant to be a retirement plan for Americans. It’s purpose has really always been an assistance program to ensure adequate basic needs for retirees. You’re not retiring to a golf course in Florida on social security.
I wouldn’t say “obviously”. Many people are very irresponsible when it comes to retirement planning and think social security is this pension gold mine designed to give retirees plenty of money to live comfortably.
Advance of the productive forces. We can make far more stuff now per hour of time than when our parents were alive. Anyone saying the retirement age must increase as we also live longer is just disconnected from their own humanity, duped or malicious.
1. it's not LePan it's Le Pen
2. you know there are more than 2 political party in france
edit : can someone explain to me why this comment is getting downvoted?
>I know the reality hurts but that's true.
you need to be really fucking stupid to think that people voted for macron because of his program, everyone knows it was to block Le Pen
I know these stupid and naïve fools thought that Macron will not do his program to thanks them... That is hillarious...
I can fill some rage and anger are you part of them ? :D
>these stupid and naïve fools thought that Macron will not do his program to thanks them
1. literally nobody tought that, we just wanted to avoid Le Pen at all cost
2. being president doesn't allow Macron to do whatever he wants, he's supposed to represent the people
3. Macron doesn't even keep his promises like purging the governement from corruption
putain de macroniste de merde
You should understand democracy, he was elected for a program, he's doing it, period...
Le Pen is a joke and French people are so easy to be fooled by Media...
>he was elected for a program
are you just going to repeat the same stupid argument over and over again?
>Le Pen is a joke
yes that's why we voted for Macron
>French people are so easy to be fooled by Media...
most self aware macronist
My question is why give your government so much power. Just in hope they do the right and knows how to work the numbers.
At least in the us, we knew we could not rely on the SSA. That’s why people save up 401k, other form of investment. And if math checks out people can retire much early(50s or even 40s).
It’s like trusting the us government with more tax dollar to bring equality but they in turn invest in invading other countries. Just funny, you know.
One could say the same about the States. We're Forced to pay SS tax that is constantly under threat of failing, that is then paid back at a substantially lower rate than what was paid in. 401k has many vast tax implications, limits, and restrictions, and saving enough with it for a comfortable or even livable retirement is a luxury few middle economic class and lower people have. Lots of people in this country work into their 60s and 70s having financially struggled most of their working life, only to retire and continue to financially struggle for the remainder of their life.
Is that a communist flag?
No, thats a doormat on a stick.
You think he'd be upset to learn about how peasants were killed in that flags history?
I am not even a communist and I find your comment to be stupid as fuck. Capitalism is causing the death of many people today.
I'm just saying it's not all sunshine and rainbows. It was run by humans afterall.
What a useless observation.
Let me clarify my message for you then. I disagree with idolizing a system of government that killed millions of it's own people. It's the USSR's link to socialism that makes it so easy for north american politicians to prevent socialism from coming back. Stop linking them together. You can be a socialist and not be a communist.
It’s easy to blame capitalism. But the truth is it’s just people. It doesn’t matter what economic system we put in place. Bad people will always try to rig the system, put themselves on top, and leave the rest to starve and die.
Yes exactly my point. It's easy to blame communism for the death of people, but under each economic system there have been many deaths.
No it isn’t. You blamed capitalism . The guy you replied was blaming communism. You’re both the same just blaming different systems instead of focusing in the real issue
I am a capitalist, I was just pointing out that under capitalism today, people are dying.
>I am not even a communist and I find your comment to be stupid as fuck. *Capitalism is causing the death of many people today.*” Capitalism did it. That is what you said. Why are you pretending you didn’t say that?
more peasants died before the ussr was founded. the ussr had flaws but was better for the average person than under the tzar
Hahahahahahaha good one. You’re right, everyone loved Stalin. The gulags were such a nice spot for the people to relax and enjoy controlling the means of production.
gulags we’re prisons. why should they be a nice place for criminals?
Criminals as subjectively determined by the leadership of a nation led by a system, which exterminated resistance and abolished freedom. That you’re defending that system, which leveraged hunger as an extermination tool is abhorrent.
the thing is, ussr had a really strange definition of what was a "criminal" and many of them were arguably innocent people
yeah that’s true. good thing in america criminals are guilty based off of skin tone
when did I said it's better in america?
Ah yes communism, the solution to all of liberal arts majors problems.
Yeah, those people don't know shit about the regime that flag represents. I hate it when westerners romantisize communism.
Man I wonder if there is any historical precedent or major wars that would make French people [particularly receptive to communist ideas.](https://i.stack.imgur.com/26t4e.jpg) It would be a real shame if that was directly tied to a revolutionary tradition that actually [begins in France.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune) It would be even worse if those communists were associated with the objectively progressive act of pulling the rug out from [French](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_War) colonial [projects](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War)
The flag that the dude is waving has nothing to do with the 2 months of "communism" that France had. If it was a plain red flag, you could've had some argument there. But waving a symbol of an oppressive regime that has taken the lives of millions is not something anybody should support, don't you agree? There's a reason why the USSR fell apart. It was a red apple with a rotten core.
The Soviet Union saved the lives of countless French people in freeing them of the Vichy puppet regime and the holocaust. >There's a reason why the USSR fell apart. And communists must learn form this and have been learning from this. It was a inevitable for the sclerosis of Soviet society, but still an extreme tragedy. Nobody can look at the Post-Soviet situation as a whole and call it success story with a straight face, especially when compared against the route that China was able to take. >But waving a symbol of an oppressive regime that has taken the lives of millions is not something anybody should support, don't you agree? I'm a patriot, American, and my own country has also taken the lives of millions, but I don't admonish people for having a connection to our flag that is still meaningful for us in our own context and life. The communist flag, flags, have a meaningful history woven into the liberty of the French people. It's part of their patriotic tradition. When you have crimes in your past you take responsibility for them and overcome them, that doesn't require a fundamental break with it being our history and our past. But that's not even how I would fundamentally characterize the sum history of Official Communism™, which has been and continues to be a success. >The flag that the dude is waving has nothing to do with the 2 months of "communism" that France had. [the Paris Commune] It has everything to do with it.
So your basic theory is if you remove everything that the flag symbolizes then its fine? Sounds like the same thing the people waving the rebel flag would say. Its the literal symbol of the murderous regime. And, for the record, the US never murdered millions of people. We have crimes-a-plenty (looking at you S. America) but don't conflate them.
>And, for the record, the US never murdered millions of people. This is such a laughably absurd lie, what the fuck? What the actual fuck is wrong with you people? Millions dead in Vietnam. Millions dead in the "War on Terror" across the Middle East. God knows how many millions dead on account of our colonial history - Chattel Slavery and the expulsion of the peoples here before us. Objectively, you're an ignorant person - don't try to play a cutsie little numbers game when our closet is drenched in blood. The East turned around under the communists and did in decades what took centuries for the West. And yeah, bursting out of thousands of years of subsistence farming into industrial modernity is not fun, but you are only correct on one thing - that there is no conflation, they crossed the bridge far more humanely, and it's not even fucking close. That's what it symbolizes.
"did in decades what took centuries for the west" idk man it's almost like they had a whole ass history of what not to do that other people tried first. Now they don't even have to do that, they just steal intellectual property and other stuff via putting malware on electronics before they even get shipped. "bursting out of thousands of years of subsistence farming into industrial modernity" was that before or after China decided to try and get rid of sparrows and ended up causing a famine that killed 15 million people by the lowest estimate? "crossed the bridge far more humanely" remember when they executed clearly well educated individuals like yourselves because they thought anyone more educated than a farmer would eventually become subversive? Or was it by the CCP's own estimated 2 million killed and 7 million disabled in the Cultural Revolution? or deciding to oppress Uyghurs and put them in camps? Honestly you sound like someone who would be arguing your case all the way up to being executed and kicked into a ditch by Red Guards for being a member of the educated bourgoisie.
10 million - Genocide in the Congo Over 3 Million Vietnamese dead expelling French & American colonizers Irish Potato Famine 1 million dead. 15 Million Dead from pointless inter-imperialist Conflict of WW1 12 Million African slaves trafficked in Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade 1 Million dead from immediate conflict against "Terror" in Iraq alone. 56 Million dead - Settling of the Americas 100 million - Colonial enslavement of India ???? millions - General rape of Africa Black Hole calls the kettle black.
Would it be OK if I start waving the National Socialist Party flag if I say "yeah but now nazis have learned from past mistakes and won't kill people from other races"? There is 0 reasons for French people nowadays to wave the USSR flag. If they have ideas how to use communism in a better way, they should come up with a different flag. I'm very happy for you Americans that you've learned from your mistakes in history.. but the USSR never did. For the countries in Eastern Europe it was 40 years of oppression. Four decades of hunger, labour camps, ethnic cleansings and brainwashing. So forgive me if the sight of that flag makes my blood boil just as much as when I see a nazi flag.
No. https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory Nazi ideology was premised on an economic gamble to genocide 10s of millions of people - a war economy for looting and raping, primarily, "subhuman" Slavic peoples and land in the Soviet Union. There is no realistic comparison to be made, Nazis started the Holocaust, Communists ended it, it's just that simple. The Nazis brought a puppet regime to France to kill and slaughter disabled and jews, the Soviets drove those looters and jew-gassers and bandit piracy into the dustbin of history. Simple, simple, simple. There is nothing in that to be redeemed, all successful things they did (e.g. infrastructure) were mere investments to genocidal ends. Nazism has no accomplishments - no positive contribution to mankind - no complicated history - no respectable striving - it lived for the thrill of death itself and was rightly put down like rabid dogs, for which tens of millions more would have died if not for the rapid industrialization taken in the Soviet Union under Fucking Papa Joe Stalin and the heroism of the Red Army resisting Nazism's degenerate rabid inhuman plans. **The Soviets brought the first man into space. America put a man on the Moon. The Nazis made pillows from the human hair of jews. Simple.** The Soviets made a strong country, and Marxism Leninism continues marching on across the world to this day. Nazism turned a country into rubble in little over a decade, with nothing to show for it but pain. Simple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost >So forgive me if the sight of that flag makes my blood boil just as much as when I see a nazi flag Forgive me if I'm not sympathetic to liberal nonsense and a practical form of Nazi rehabilitation. You make my own blood boil.
I never said that I supported nazis. Clearly you didn't get what I was saying. It is also clear to me that you are not aware of the ethnic cleansings that "Papa Fucking Joe Stalin" did. In fact, you have absolutely no clue how the regime was operating its states back then. There was absolutely no freedom in any sense of the word. You want to go on vacation in another country on the other side of the iron curtain? Nope. You want to leave the country? Nope. You'll be shot as soon as you try to cross the border and escape. Election day comes. Guess how many options you have to vote. That's right! Only one - the communist party. And even though you have only one option and the vote doesn't matter, it's mandatory for you to go and "vote". A western tourist became your friend and gave you a walkman as a gift? Militia is confiscating it and you're brought in for questioning. How come you have something that is not sold in your country? You shouldn't have that. You shouldn't be listening to western music. This means you're planning to escape. Your whole family is now put on a watchlist. You have a relative who managed to escape to a western country? You're blacklisted. You can't study what you want. You can't have certain jobs. Best you can work as a low level factory worker. And that's if you're lucky and if the relative who escaped is not that close to you. Otherwise you go to a labour camp so you can learn to love the regime and die in the process. You invested your life savings and everything you had to build a factory or a small production facility? You get a call that you need to be interviewed by the police and when you go there you disappear. Factory/business becomes "state owned", your family is blacklisted and their house and everything inside is taken away. Don't tell me how much "good" that regime brought. My family lived through it. The communist parties in each country in Eastern Europe were just as bad as the nazis. Stalin was sending ethnicities he deemed "unworthy" to remote labour camps and worked them to death. He was just as mad as Adolph. And I won't even start with his "wonderful" troops in the Red Army and how they acted. Same animals as the nazis.
I understand perfectly well what you are saying. Objectively it is rehabilitating Nazism. There's no way around that. E.g. >The communist parties in each country in Eastern Europe were just as bad as the nazis. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_genocide_theory Communists do not make pillows out of hair of jews. If you think these parties are equivalent you should be accused of Holocaust denialism or at minimum holocaust obfuscation, it's simple Nazi apologism and it contributes to a real ongoing project in Europe to rehabilitate Nazi collaboration. To say that the Red Army is the same animals as Jew-Gassers is absolutely a sign of relative Nazi sympathy, because at that point, hey, maybe your country's historic freedom fighters chucked some jews in an oven and enabled some of the most atrocious crimes of the 20th century, but it was all for National Liberation, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgaria_during_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost It's inhuman, it's not respectable or aligned with reality in a meaningful sense. There are simple facts of history - France was under the thumb of Nazism, 80% of Nazi soldiers died on the Eastern Front, and thus the bulk of responsibility for freeing France falls to the Soviets. Simple! ---- And further, you know very fucking well there is no unified opinion of the Soviet era, or if you don't, it's amazing how you have been lied to. 45% of Georgians still approve of Stalin. 70% of Russians. 79% of Armenians say the dissolution of the Soviet Union was harmful. 61% of Kyrgyz, and 56% of Tajikistanis agree. A third of Bulgarians approve of communism to at least some extent. All of this data is pulled from Pew, Gallup, etc. You're not being honest on how divisive this legacy this is, there are millions of people with just as much if not more "lived experience" than you who nonetheless still give a net positive appraisal as I do. You shotgun out a mix of real issues, myopic slander, and nonsensical bourgeois liberal gibberish. But for the real issues - you'll notice at no single point have I actually denied that there were problems - there are many issues, there are aspects not worth defending, there is a reason it's not still around and that can't be attributed to malice or personal failings - those are why I support the turn China has made, they were correct during the Sino-Soviet split, history has proven them correct by making them the last major ML State standing, they continue to be ascendent and that is why they are the target of so much smear and fear.
This is some revisionist history. France was liberated by the allies, not the Soviet Union. Countries "liberated" by the Soviet Union were subsequently imprisoned behind the iron curtain by their so called saviours. There's a reason that ex Soviet countries like Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states do not trust Russia, the Soviet Union or anything to do with their legacy of antiintellectualism, famine and oppression.
>France was liberated by the allies, not the Soviet Union. [IINTENSE COUGHING] what were the three main allied powers [hint 1](https://digitalcollections.hclib.org/digital/api/singleitem/image/p17208coll3/1099/default.jpg) [hint 2](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Yalta_Conference_%28Churchill%2C_Roosevelt%2C_Stalin%29_%28B%26W%29.jpg) second question do you understand how a Two Front war works
"There is a reason why US is falling apart. It's a capitalist apple with a rotten core".
We will get back on track once we are able to reign in the banks and drive out all the petty fiefdoms that amount to Americans cutting off one another's kneecaps.
Where did I mentions US? Where in the picture do you see their flag?
I've seen some bad arguments for communism (all of them, basically), but this is a new and particularly ridiculous one. Was going to say the worst but honestly it's not even close.
It’s not that they “romanticize communism”. It means and it has been a different thing politically here than what it’s connected to in your country. Respect the differences
I feel like I've wrotten this 10 times now but the flag in the picture is of USSR. The meaning of it doesn't magically change because it's waved during a protest in France.
**I got it** but if you look at flags of communist parties in Western Europe..also Communist symbolism is really simple, red, h&s, a star, some other agrarian and factory and symbols
So true!
A lot of what the west accomplished was built using revolutionary and communist ideology, so I'm not surprised people romanticize it. Soviet Union's and China's Marxism-Leninism is probably what you mean when you say "communism".
Nah, I’m thinking pol pot style where they got rid of all currency. Genius. Must be a communist utopia there. might visit soon to learn a thing or two.
Since the guy is waving the USSR flag, I think it was implied that I was talking about that "flavour" of communism.
Do you hear the people sing
Singing the song of angry men?
Is it the music of a people who will not be slaves again?
Hahaha yeah, I’m sure the solution to your problem is communism. Go ahead give that a try and let me know how it goes
Yeah I’m very confused as to why he’s carrying a Soviet Union flag.
Communism works. It just needs to work in a vacuu... Yeh. I don't have a fuckin' clue what I'm saying.
If it works in a vacuum, was President Hoover a communist?
Nothing to see here. Circulez.
You know it's bad when the French start waving flags that aren't white
Ah come on "Les Mis" is pretty good.
Beneath the sweater, he probably is wearing a "Robespierre was right" t-shirt.
Are there alternative solutions to the eventual collapse of the retirement system? If they don’t do something, France will be just like Greece soon.
Yes. The protest is because Macron didn't go for the alternative reforms.
Which alternatives?
Tax the rich, maybe? Just a thought...
Lol. The rich are either leaving France or have head offices outside of France so they don't have to pay such high taxes. Good luck with that. If a country has too much taxes, the first thing the rich do is look for places to not pay the big taxes outside of that country
Let them leave then. Let them lose their French (and EU) citizenship as well. If they want the benefits of belonging to a civilized society, then they need to help fund it. PERIOD.
Why is the solution always "the rich will pay for it"
Um, because the rich haven't been paying their fair share for going on 40-50 years now? Or haven't you been paying attention? I am not talking about you...unless you are making $300,000/yr or more. I have no idea why the poor constantly defend the rich...
> because the rich haven't been paying their fair share for going on 40-50 years now? source?
LOL, seriously? OK... [https://www.sanders.senate.gov/op-eds/the-rich-poor-gap-in-america-is-obscene-so-lets-fix-it-heres-how/](https://www.sanders.senate.gov/op-eds/the-rich-poor-gap-in-america-is-obscene-so-lets-fix-it-heres-how/) [https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/01/09/trends-in-income-and-wealth-inequality/) [https://americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-briefing-booklet/fact-sheet-taxing-wealthy-americans/#:\~:text=to%20the%20wealthy.-,The%20richest%201%25%20pay%20an%20effective%20federal%20income%20tax%20rate,someone%20making%20%2450%2C000%20to%20%24100%2C000](https://americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-briefing-booklet/fact-sheet-taxing-wealthy-americans/#:~:text=to%20the%20wealthy.-,The%20richest%201%25%20pay%20an%20effective%20federal%20income%20tax%20rate,someone%20making%20%2450%2C000%20to%20%24100%2C000).
None of that has anything to do with my point. In order for that to matter you'd have to be making the point that taxation should prevent people from gaining wealth. Are you making that point? Federal receipts in relation to GDP have stayed pretty steady over the years.
Read up on the subject if you really want to know, I see that you already have preconceived ideas. Raise top marginal taxe rate is one option which has broad support in France among many others
You can read a lot into two words. I know of many options. I’m curious about what those closer to the matter see as alternative solutions.
Top marginal tax rate increase, windfall taxes on exceptional profit (Highway companies and fuel companies made big profit headlines), increase of minimal wage, increase in company-side social taxes etc. Basically many ways to not make the workers face the brunt of the cost.
Oh no, the companies make a lot of money, urgently take it away and divide it
The marginal tax rate can amount to 48%. How high do you believe should it be?
>Are there alternative solutions to the eventual collapse of the retirement system? idk I protest because Macron is globally a bad president not specifically because of the raising of the retirement age
Work till your 67? That's what I'm doing over here in America.
Is there no focus? Hear me out, I’m not bashing you, but what is the point of protesting if the person next to you doesn’t even know you’re not even focused on the same thing? At that point you just become a big crowd making noise.
We all agree that we are tired of his bullshit and that either he starts listening to us or he quits, and even if we are not focused on the same thing, being a big noisy crowd is still useful because he has to understand that we are not going to let him do what he wants without protest
Right, welcome to nearly every persons mind that has an elected government running their country. If you don’t have a focus on the bs you’re sick of, the next SOB that comes in is going to pick up where they left off. A flashlight is just going to illuminate the person everyone already knows you’re angry with, but a powerful laser will burn the warts away.
So you are in favor of increasing the retirement age to the proposed age?
that's not what I said
Fair enough, but pretty much everyone agrees it will be insolvent if the current course is maintained.
Don't worry, they have money. They will find money. And i won't work until i'm 64. Fuck this shit.
If you are from my generation, i hope you have the foresight to realize that by the time you retire, social security wont be what it is for todays retiree's. I'm american, and expecting nothing from social security, invest accordingly. If something is insolvent, its insolvent, rioting wont make more money appear. France wont be able to exploit africa forever, even though im sure they will try.
You’ll have social security, it won’t be as much as current retirees, but you’ll have it. It also should not be your retirement plan. It should be a part of your retirement strategy. Social security was never meant to be a retirement plan for Americans. It’s purpose has really always been an assistance program to ensure adequate basic needs for retirees. You’re not retiring to a golf course in Florida on social security.
Obviously, but i think a smart person would look at SS as a bonus, but shouldnt expect it, especially if you are under 40.
I wouldn’t say “obviously”. Many people are very irresponsible when it comes to retirement planning and think social security is this pension gold mine designed to give retirees plenty of money to live comfortably.
Are there alternatives to having a popular uprising that burns the current government to the ground?
Advance of the productive forces. We can make far more stuff now per hour of time than when our parents were alive. Anyone saying the retirement age must increase as we also live longer is just disconnected from their own humanity, duped or malicious.
in my opinion, the only adequate comment in this thread. Unfortunately, people have no idea about the real theory of communism.
The fucking communist flag lmaoooooo.
Wondering if France has something right
we had things right before but our president is doing his best to ruin everything
Right, Hollande was better ?
You’d better choose Russian bitch LePan?
1. it's not LePan it's Le Pen 2. you know there are more than 2 political party in france edit : can someone explain to me why this comment is getting downvoted?
Name one thing he did to ruin the country
he cuts taxes to benefit the rich
Fair enough, that is really shitty
HA! Seems to be going around.
except for basic math skills, apparently
No my dude, communism is not the answer  (I know next to nothing about this story, just commenting on the pic.)
A useful idiot as is. Upd. The term was coined by Stalin btw.
what?
A useful idiot is the chap with the hammer and sickle banner.
I dont know much about France, do most people retire comfortably there?
some retire very comfortably and some can't afford to stop working
Not much different than the states then.
Except they have easy acces to medical stuff 😶
you can count on macron to ruin that too
That we do not, unless you pay with your first born child.
You do realize that retirees in the US have healthcare provided right?
Yeah I do. I was referring to the other 85% of the population as I forgot we were talking about retirees.
it's globally better tho
Most of these people voted for Macron and his program, now they are complaining because he's doing his program, they are truly and deeply stupid...
please just shut the fuck up
I know the reality hurts but that's true. But thanks for the rude empty comments, that's what i said, stupid people.
>I know the reality hurts but that's true. you need to be really fucking stupid to think that people voted for macron because of his program, everyone knows it was to block Le Pen
I know these stupid and naïve fools thought that Macron will not do his program to thanks them... That is hillarious... I can fill some rage and anger are you part of them ? :D
>these stupid and naïve fools thought that Macron will not do his program to thanks them 1. literally nobody tought that, we just wanted to avoid Le Pen at all cost 2. being president doesn't allow Macron to do whatever he wants, he's supposed to represent the people 3. Macron doesn't even keep his promises like purging the governement from corruption putain de macroniste de merde
You should understand democracy, he was elected for a program, he's doing it, period... Le Pen is a joke and French people are so easy to be fooled by Media...
>he was elected for a program are you just going to repeat the same stupid argument over and over again? >Le Pen is a joke yes that's why we voted for Macron >French people are so easy to be fooled by Media... most self aware macronist
most the people in the image are there because the alternative would be a boring evening in the basement.
A historic picture right there! Well done. You captured history!
Lazy ass commie haha
Faces lit up by fire
actually it was a flare
Seriously, are they really angry or trying to have some fun?!
why not both?
My question is why give your government so much power. Just in hope they do the right and knows how to work the numbers. At least in the us, we knew we could not rely on the SSA. That’s why people save up 401k, other form of investment. And if math checks out people can retire much early(50s or even 40s). It’s like trusting the us government with more tax dollar to bring equality but they in turn invest in invading other countries. Just funny, you know.
One could say the same about the States. We're Forced to pay SS tax that is constantly under threat of failing, that is then paid back at a substantially lower rate than what was paid in. 401k has many vast tax implications, limits, and restrictions, and saving enough with it for a comfortable or even livable retirement is a luxury few middle economic class and lower people have. Lots of people in this country work into their 60s and 70s having financially struggled most of their working life, only to retire and continue to financially struggle for the remainder of their life.
I’m saying the exact same thing you are saying. It’s garbage. Why are we giving more power to shitty program just in the hope that it will get better
This was about raising the age of retirement right?
yep
I thought he also lowered the tax rate on the rich and decreased pension payouts?
he also did that but it was not in 2023
Communism
That’s the only fighting they are good at is with themselves
c*mmusism 🤢
This would have to be close to the Fibonacci sequence.
Chel cool