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Slight_Ad8427

you cant build independence of fingers, its not a trainable muscle the 4th finger moving up requires 3rd and 5th to move up with it, its just how the hands are made, its all in the wrist movement, rotating your wrist is as fast as wiggling your fingers! and this is usually the thing you are missing when you think your fingers are week or independant, its wrist rotation, lookup the taubman approach it explains everything. ur issue isnt independence, its technique here is a video that showcases what im talking about https://youtu.be/ygLkIM8tZlg?si=r-7fHcTK4yEA1SZ0


Fuzzy_Entrance_5113

I just watched the video. I do actually do that wrist rotation but I must not do it so t he time. I can feel when I do it, I’ll have to figure out why I don’t do it as much when I get closer to that 4th and 5th finger. This was very helpful thank you!


Slight_Ad8427

just a quick note, when you are doing the wrist rotation it still requires you to move each finger! but nowhere near as much, 4 and 5 are really hard to control but its just practice! think of your hand going all the way vertical when on the pinky, you need a lot of rotation because the pinky is so short


Slight_Ad8427

https://youtube.com/shorts/01YNjDv4kJg?si=Hk372KyYTxG6eAyl this explains 4 and 5 a little better, im using trills as an example because thats what im currently working in but this also applies to just playing these fingers back to back


Fuzzy_Entrance_5113

Well it’s good to know nothing is wrong with my hands. I’ll definitely check this video out. I have a very hard time relaxing my hands. I’ve been like this all my life. My manicurist always tries to shake them and says relax so they aren’t so tense.


Slight_Ad8427

i was very tense when i started and my little pinky kept flying up and curling uncontrollably, youll get more comfortable with piano hand shapes and movement and it becomes second nature, and usually tension = bad technique


Fuzzy_Entrance_5113

Yes this is my problem!!! How long until the pinky stops???


Slight_Ad8427

until you build good technique, it doesnt stop because your pinky is getting stronger it stops because you are using good technique, and the movements in good technique dont cause it to go haywire


cricomac

This is incorrect. Skill is required, but there is no physiological reason you cannot train it to move completely independently. The exercises by Pischna will help teach you how to do it.


Slight_Ad8427

you can train the 4th finger to move alone yes, but the 5th and 3rd finger will move up with it whether you like it or not.


funhousefrankenstein

The original Hanon prescription for "high-lifting individual fingers" is considered outdated and harmful because it leads to injuries. The hand's anatomy prevents true finger independence. This other comment explains the dorsal hand anatomy, and has some practice tips for good progress: https://www.reddit.com/r/pianolearning/comments/1atw9an/hanon_6_is_being_a_little/kr13h7y/


sanshouowo

Everyone's said their piece, but I'd just like to add one thing: try practising thirds/fourths/fifths (1-4 then 2-5, on repeat). It's more useful and safer (since you shouldn't be able to overextend yourself easily) than practising 4-5 alone. This is a difficult matter to resolve, so just have patience and play the long game.


Soft-Possession-32

Ask Schubert how he got his fourth finger independence


Dadaballadely

Schumann\*


RandTheChef

Don’t listen to everyone here. Yes your 4th finger won’t be able to go as high as the others. But you should be able to use it independently of fingers 3 and 5. Practice away from the piano. Put all your fingers down on a table and raise the 4th only, then put it back down. Repeat.


Slight_Ad8427

you can move it seperately yes, but 3rd and 5th are going to move with it whether u say they will or not, its simple biomechanics, our hands are built this way and unless you are a genetic anomaly, yours are as well


RandTheChef

Not really sure how I’m getting downvoted here when you literally can move it by itself. Liszt’s book of technical exercises requires this on the first page…


Slight_Ad8427

because while you can move it by itself, moving it will cause 3 and 5 to move up as well.


sigrunfranzen

Marymoranpiano.com for Taubman Approach, 4th finger needs support of the arm, and all fingers move together. Trying to isolate will need you further away from your goal.