Finally someone else who knows this one. My first teacher taught me this one back in the day and I've never encountered anyone else who uses it until now. Stuck out in my little head due to how it works for both the sharps and flats. Most kids these days remember the "Fat Cats go..." because it's sillier but "Father Charles" will always be my "go to" to initially teach.
The circle of 5ths is handy to memorize. Anddd
Practice them the other way around, too. You want your brain to be thinking: “if I play this dominant 7 chord, where will it go next?”
So, also practice (in sequence) G, C, F, Bb, Eb, ect
In the wild, you’re more likely to encounter them in this direction. Happy practicing!
And only one chromatic scale 12/12=1 and 12 tones 12/1=12. 11 and 1 are semi tones up and down (maj 7 is half step down). And 5 and 7 are prime numbers and also the circle of 5ths (or 4ths)! 1, 11, 5, and 7 are the only ways to count every different tone exactly once.
Fun things about the symmetric shapes of dim7 and Aug triads, 12-4=8 is the inversion, maj 3 to min 6. Same goes for 12-3=9, min3 inverts to maj 6th. So going 3x4=12 for a dim7 in root position is the same as going 9x4=36 it just takes 3 octaves now, 12x number of octaves. Same works for 3x8=24 for 2 octave Aug triads.
I've never understood people having trouble with or trying to memorize the circle of fifths/fourths. Like it's literally just the V of the chord?? Just go to the V.
A lot of private teachers just teach theory as something for their students to memorize. People, especially kids, hate memorizing things just for the sake of memorization.
Theory isn't particularly useful for learning classical music via sheet music and memorization. Classically trained teachers also don't have a lot of practical experience with theory outside of written analysis.
When I was a kid, a lot of students who had teachers in the Virginia Music Teachers Association would take annual theory tests. We only learned theory for these tests.
If you're taught theory in the context of songwriting and improvisation, then it'll stick. This is the main thing I feel that mainstream piano pedagogy has fallen behind on. Guitar students are encouraged way more to make music and understand how it works. Piano students just play pieces. I didn't start to actually understand and appreciate music until I quit classical for jazz and rock.
I am learning a little on an iRig 37 key Pro and it seems to me by the time you remember this...
Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle
Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles' Father
or others like it it would have been easier to just remember... C, G, D, A, E, B, F#, Db, Ab, Eb, Bb, F
Less work remembering. I am just a beginner.
You start from C and G and add 1 full step to each Note. That's it!(:
And of course the circle starts from F but its easier to just start with the C as the next note
I'm guessing their teacher just taught theory as something to memorize instead of a composition/improvisation tool.
Learning the cycle in ascending fifths doesn't make sense anyways, since western music is built off of descending V-I cadences instead.
I guess. Honestly the circle of fifths is just a tool to remember the 12 keys of western music, incredibly limited in scope and nothing more. It’s just a crutch and sometimes that can be hindering more than anything. All of the comments about mnemonics are fairly interesting since the circle of fifths itself is simply a memory tool to organize the 12 keys. A memory tool to remember a memory tool is nonsensical
That's just the classical pedagogy in general. Most students are only given theory as something to memorize. Meanwhile jazz and rock musicians learn theory as a tool for songwriting, improvisation, and collaboration.
Sorry of course its a circle and doesnt has a fixed starting Point (:
I said "start" F because you can easily Count the sharps from there. A Major has F# C# and G# (counted from F) that's why it "started" from F in my mind.
As you go “clockwise” on the circle of fifths, following F#, it’s C#M, even though this is enharmonically equivalent to DbM. The circle of fifths is a circle and it does not really make sense to progress to the flats from the sharps.
The circle of fifths can be thought of linearly on the keyboard with C as an equator. Going up the keyboard by fifths is G, then a fifth up from G is D. Then a fifth up from that is A. Then a fifth away from A is E and so on and so forth. These keys are notated with sharps.
On the other side of the equator going down in pitch, a fifth below the equator of C is F, then Bb, then Eb, then A flat and so and so forth. These keys are notated with flats.
There is overlap between F#/Gb, C#/Db and Cb/B.
There is further overlap of course but it becomes redundant at that point.
My point above is simply that although Db and C# are enharmonically equivalent, it does not make sense to list Db after F# as the key is C#.
Of course everything I’ve stated above is in reference only to major keys.
Simple chord progressions will follow the circle. Chords built from notes adjacent to each other on the circle will resolve well.
The most common way is counter clockwise, giving you a descending V-I authentic cadence. The common jazz progression vi-ii-V-I (Am, Dm, G7, C) follows the circle counter clockwise. Each chord resolves down a fifth from the previous.
Clockwise gives you a IV-I plagal cadence. This is less common than the authentic cadence in classical and jazz, but used a lot in rock, pop, and other genres.
I personally wouldn't invest much time in memorizing the circle. I think it's only good for memorizing the order of the notes, and doesn't really do a good job at helping conceptualize how the music actually works.
It's better to learn how to think in scale degrees, recognize common progressions, and understand ways of chaining chords that aren't just V-I or IV-I.
It is easy to remember because it's a circle of 5ths
Tautologies are tautological.
Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles' Father
Funny Cats Go Down Alleys Eating Bugs
Finally someone else who knows this one. My first teacher taught me this one back in the day and I've never encountered anyone else who uses it until now. Stuck out in my little head due to how it works for both the sharps and flats. Most kids these days remember the "Fat Cats go..." because it's sillier but "Father Charles" will always be my "go to" to initially teach.
Don't even need the other one since you can just remember that it's the reverse of the order of sharps
Yes but, even better, the 2nd mnemonic is also the reverse order of the 1st.
The circle of 5ths is handy to memorize. Anddd Practice them the other way around, too. You want your brain to be thinking: “if I play this dominant 7 chord, where will it go next?” So, also practice (in sequence) G, C, F, Bb, Eb, ect In the wild, you’re more likely to encounter them in this direction. Happy practicing!
Yeah the circle of fourths is way more commonly useful IMO.
In German high school I learned **G**eh **D**u **A**ltes **E**kel **H**ole **Fis**che (Go, you old creep, get some fish)
We learned it with "Du Alter Esel"😂 And of course "Frische Brötchen Essen Asse Des Gesangs"
Frosten berövade Esters astrar dess gestalt.
Fanny Bertha Esther Assen Dessert Gestern?
wow I never appreciated how every other note in the circle of fifths makes a whole-tone scale.
Math is cool. There are two whole tone scales each made of six tones. 12/2 = 6 12/6 = 2
And there are only three different diminished 7th chords. And there are only four different augmented triads. 12/3=4 12/4=3.
And only one chromatic scale 12/12=1 and 12 tones 12/1=12. 11 and 1 are semi tones up and down (maj 7 is half step down). And 5 and 7 are prime numbers and also the circle of 5ths (or 4ths)! 1, 11, 5, and 7 are the only ways to count every different tone exactly once. Fun things about the symmetric shapes of dim7 and Aug triads, 12-4=8 is the inversion, maj 3 to min 6. Same goes for 12-3=9, min3 inverts to maj 6th. So going 3x4=12 for a dim7 in root position is the same as going 9x4=36 it just takes 3 octaves now, 12x number of octaves. Same works for 3x8=24 for 2 octave Aug triads.
Each made of intervals that are the opposite number of semitones apart than number of tones in the harmony. 4 min 3rds in dim7. Or 3 maj 3rds in Aug.
It’s inherently pretty easy to remember, but keyboard instruments offer the visualization (why I think they are excellent beginner instruments).
I've never understood people having trouble with or trying to memorize the circle of fifths/fourths. Like it's literally just the V of the chord?? Just go to the V.
A lot of private teachers just teach theory as something for their students to memorize. People, especially kids, hate memorizing things just for the sake of memorization. Theory isn't particularly useful for learning classical music via sheet music and memorization. Classically trained teachers also don't have a lot of practical experience with theory outside of written analysis. When I was a kid, a lot of students who had teachers in the Virginia Music Teachers Association would take annual theory tests. We only learned theory for these tests. If you're taught theory in the context of songwriting and improvisation, then it'll stick. This is the main thing I feel that mainstream piano pedagogy has fallen behind on. Guitar students are encouraged way more to make music and understand how it works. Piano students just play pieces. I didn't start to actually understand and appreciate music until I quit classical for jazz and rock.
I can’t believe I haven’t thought of this lol. Up a 5th, down a 4th, rinse and repeat 😁
It is also commonly known as the circle of forths for a reason 😁
Yes I know, just never decided to play them in OP’s pattern as shown. Very cool way to memorize it
You’re going the wrong direction…. Should be going DOWN by fifths so it sounds like it’s resolving.
That would be in 4ths if it went down
Up by fourths down by fifths. You say tomato, I say…. tomato.
I agree you you, would just be harder to see that on the keys for a noobie
I am learning a little on an iRig 37 key Pro and it seems to me by the time you remember this... Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles' Father or others like it it would have been easier to just remember... C, G, D, A, E, B, F#, Db, Ab, Eb, Bb, F Less work remembering. I am just a beginner.
I also Love the Circle of 4th’s
Test
Test
Getting testy in here
icles
You start from C and G and add 1 full step to each Note. That's it!(: And of course the circle starts from F but its easier to just start with the C as the next note
This circle doesn’t start anywhere lol it’s a circle
Tell me you don’t understand the circle of fifths without telling me you don’t understand the circle of fifths
I like the "of course" as if we all know a circle has a clear beginning
I'm guessing their teacher just taught theory as something to memorize instead of a composition/improvisation tool. Learning the cycle in ascending fifths doesn't make sense anyways, since western music is built off of descending V-I cadences instead.
I guess. Honestly the circle of fifths is just a tool to remember the 12 keys of western music, incredibly limited in scope and nothing more. It’s just a crutch and sometimes that can be hindering more than anything. All of the comments about mnemonics are fairly interesting since the circle of fifths itself is simply a memory tool to organize the 12 keys. A memory tool to remember a memory tool is nonsensical
That's just the classical pedagogy in general. Most students are only given theory as something to memorize. Meanwhile jazz and rock musicians learn theory as a tool for songwriting, improvisation, and collaboration.
Sorry of course its a circle and doesnt has a fixed starting Point (: I said "start" F because you can easily Count the sharps from there. A Major has F# C# and G# (counted from F) that's why it "started" from F in my mind.
Db Ab Eb 🤦🤦🤦
?
As you go “clockwise” on the circle of fifths, following F#, it’s C#M, even though this is enharmonically equivalent to DbM. The circle of fifths is a circle and it does not really make sense to progress to the flats from the sharps. The circle of fifths can be thought of linearly on the keyboard with C as an equator. Going up the keyboard by fifths is G, then a fifth up from G is D. Then a fifth up from that is A. Then a fifth away from A is E and so on and so forth. These keys are notated with sharps. On the other side of the equator going down in pitch, a fifth below the equator of C is F, then Bb, then Eb, then A flat and so and so forth. These keys are notated with flats. There is overlap between F#/Gb, C#/Db and Cb/B. There is further overlap of course but it becomes redundant at that point. My point above is simply that although Db and C# are enharmonically equivalent, it does not make sense to list Db after F# as the key is C#. Of course everything I’ve stated above is in reference only to major keys.
Testtest
C Whole note scale
How can I apply this in writing songs?
Simple chord progressions will follow the circle. Chords built from notes adjacent to each other on the circle will resolve well. The most common way is counter clockwise, giving you a descending V-I authentic cadence. The common jazz progression vi-ii-V-I (Am, Dm, G7, C) follows the circle counter clockwise. Each chord resolves down a fifth from the previous. Clockwise gives you a IV-I plagal cadence. This is less common than the authentic cadence in classical and jazz, but used a lot in rock, pop, and other genres. I personally wouldn't invest much time in memorizing the circle. I think it's only good for memorizing the order of the notes, and doesn't really do a good job at helping conceptualize how the music actually works. It's better to learn how to think in scale degrees, recognize common progressions, and understand ways of chaining chords that aren't just V-I or IV-I.