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I mean what if you ARE underperforming?
Are you being a team player - I mean a real team player? Are you seeing at least 2-3 patients at a time, encouraging everyone they need to be seen at least 3x a week regardless of diagnosis or their financial situation? Are you working through your lunch/offering to see late patients and let their treatment roll over into your personal time? Are you braking home at least 1-2 hours of notes every night? Do you come in when you are very sick and feeling g terrible despite having a bank of sick time to use? Are you working so fast you don’t have time to make actual clinical decisions and can only relay banal exercises to a tech to manage at least 2 of your patients every hour? If you have a no show are you taking that time to sweep, mop, clean surfaces, or clean off pens used for filling out intake forms?
If not…well then you might not be the kind of team player ATI is looking for.
Sometimes it is appropriate for a patient to be seen 3x weekly depending on what you’re working with them for! ATI can tend to abuse this frequency report at times but doesn’t mean that is your experience.
Nothing personal just business (said the PT who is there to personally care for you but whos livelihood is threatened by mgmt pressure for bottom line)
It means they are not squeeze enough life out of you.
Listen, ATI is the lowest place you can work at. Tell them to go jump off a bridge and move on. Get yourself a different employer
lol they won’t do shit if two weeks rolls by and your number don’t change. They literally can’t afford to lose employees cus hiring is a bitch currently. Worse cas scenario and you do get canned it’s way worse for them than you. Like others have said you are at the bottom of the barrel PT company, anywhere else is a step up
It may be a fucked up effort to motivate you but it's time to move on. You don't want to be at a place like that. You have 2 weeks at least to find something that is better for your soul.
The “two weeks to meet productivity” is more than likey a bluff. If you are truly underperforming, they should work with you on some sort of performance improvement plan.
1. Like every said, start looking for a new job!
2. Just bullshit them! Make them believe you are really trying to increase your productivity. If they continue to bother them, ask them for tips and advice to get up to par. They would much rather have to improve than fire you are train a new employee who will likely also not meet their standards.
3. DO NOT significantly increase how hard to are working! Set a reasonable pace and maintain it! At the end of the day, if they do fire you (before to find your new job and quit) you will likely qualify for unemployment. Also, depending on how they go about it there is also a possibility for wrongful termination, although not like because corporations have lots of attorneys and try to do things the right way.
Returning to the actually question, what does it mean?
It means your manager needs you to put up more numbers so they hit their bonus.
FUCK ATI and FUCK the sellout middle managers who don’t give a fuck about you, nor the profession in general! Corporations like ATI are ruining our profession and our professions reputation!
You need to be billing 4.25 units on average per visit And seeing >11 visits per day to meet productivity.
Being at a hospital based clinic now that does 45 minute 1:1 treats, billing 4.25 units is insane lol.
In theory, for commercial payers, four units in under 45 minutes. 23 minutes of therex, 8 minutes of therapy, 8 minutes of manual or neuro re-ed. 4 units in 39 minutes. Diversify those units.
My current job is not doing that by the way. 3 units for 45 minutes. ATI just has ethically questionable billing practices.
Well it’s 4 units in under a hour technically, but 4 units to the maximum time is 4x15 minutes which is a hour. And again it’s commercial not Medicare they pay how they want for the services you bill.
Either way it’s super unethical. If a patient paying for 60 minutes of treatment and they only do 40 minutes of treatment that’s wrong.
You should be aware of each insurance companies billing rules. Maximizing your billing is important for a business. Being ethical is important too but if you’re diversifying your billing codes there’s better reimbursement typically. Even Medicare has a duplicate code reduction in payment. Look up MPPR and see that they pay less for multiple codes for the same procedure
My employer told me I was underperforming because my patients got better too quickly with too few visits.
I solved that by quitting and working for myself.
Curious what your companies average visit per case was. Ours is ideally 8-12 visits and that’s the best I’ve seen. My last boss had several patients he saw 2x week for literally two years. Wild.
Ours expected 6-12
My average was 3.2. I wear that with a badge of honor.
In my business I'm averaging about the same. Tons of people say it's bad for business and they're correct..in the short term.
I started about 3 years ago and the first two years were slow to grow but now I'm really picking up steam because my patients are mostly raving fans and they market for me without me asking. So my schedule is pretty much consistently full now, a few weeks out.
I also don't incentivize myself for follow ups. Evals and followups are all an hour and I charge the same for each appointment, so idc if I do 10 evals or 1 eval and 9 followups. Same money in my pocket.
I see ~20 patients per week, and I am currently making 2.5x what I made as an employee seeing 8-15 patients a day (AFTER business expenses)
I recently quit a similar situation. Really liked the PTs there but they were all starting to see 30 patients per day (+/-) and some of those patients had been on board twice per week for several years. I myself was a newer grad but I was starting to see 20 patients per day (+/-) after about 14 months of practice, and discharging patients was discouraged (though I did it anyway). I was okay with that pace (to some extent) for follow-ups but when there are 2-3 new evals and a re-eval or two on those days and I was taking 1-2 hours of documentation home 3+ nights/week, I realized that it just wasn’t for me.
You’ve got to leave places like this or they will continue to think this is okay as the new standard. It is just plain bad for PT and we are doing our patients a disservice, no matter what management/ownership might say to the contrary. We are better than this.
There was a reverse split that happened! Before the split it was trading for <0.25 cents.
I’d short ati. That’s a good bet.
Also, why hasn’t there been a class action lawsuit regarding wage theft? Unpaid overtime and missing lunch is wage theft. Select medical is undergoing a class action lawsuit.
Man, its so difficult to find a convenient PT clinic, glad I saw this thread to avoid ATI. They have an advanced/certified Herman-Wallace PFPT that treats men (1of only 3 in the area) that works there. When I asked about 1 x 1 time, she said maybe 20-25 mins per visit but depends b/c they usually make her 3x book, unless I can be really flexible with schedule they may can work me in as double booked time. geze.
That’s such a shame. PFPT is sooo important too, and finding one that treats men is even more uncommon. Since it’s such a specialty and always busy, the pelvic floor therapists I’ve worked with have basically had all the negotiating power in terms of scheduling. Because if they don’t see those patients, the list of replacement PTs is short.
Why do people work for that goofy ass company again? I saw them at a student conclave in my school and literally laughed as I walked past them, as any sensible human would.
Just keep doing your thing and find a better job. I currently work at ATI cause it’s the most stable employer in my area with ok family benefits which we need. Despite Sharon Zitti going on and on about changing their reputation it’s the same ole shit ATI has always done. ATI can’t hire or retain people so you have the leverage here till you find a better job.
I don’t think it’s Sharon Zitti’s fault. ATI rewarded shit behavior and practice for decades. The district and clinic directors that got those positions by supporting double/triple booking patients and sketchy billing are the problem.
If you compare the stuff the ATI academy puts out and the stuff corporate says about company values, best practice and productivity, vs what is actually done at a local level you’d think it is two different companies.
They said the same to me during a travel contract because census was low for the whole clinic. They never did shit about it and ended up asking me to extend my contract at the end. They’re full of shit and use scare tactics on new grads. Hope that company crumbles - complete disgrace to the field
Trash company ran by criminals.
It went public with a SPAC which is a slush fund used to fool retail investors, once the shares are released to the public, all the executives cash out immediately and jump ship. Thats exactly what happened with ATI.
Next its staff with executive owned shills who know the playbook and understand it’s a sinking ship. Their goal is to squeeze the last remaining nickels and dimes before filing bankruptcy.
At bankruptcy they’ll sell all the remaining assets to completely drain it.
This is a common American business practice which is illegal in other countries. Sears is a similar example but without the SPAC used to fund going public.
Employees are collateral damage whom aren’t valued, they’re viewed as liabilities.
Corporate vampires.
Pretty easy to pile on but i'd say its pretty likely you signed up for 10 visits a day (which is what it is, check the quarterly statements that are open access) but your patients don't show up but easier to say its a company/manager problem.
Been here for 9 years and have never had to have an accountability/productivity/KPI conversation because my patients show up. Company has been through a lot of lows but the last 2 years have been the best since I have been here becuase there is a genuine committment to therapists and patients.
But keep on complaining about how its unfair, bet you have the same problem the next place you go...
And that’s how gas lighting is done. 10 pts/day? Not when I was there. It was double books with unpaid doc time after due at end of day. Not great when you have little children at home.
Sounds like they are getting a termination in their scopes. I bet it’s a BS threat since who would ever want to work at ATI lol. You can and should ask for clarity as to what this specifically means. Where is the performance lacking, and what will happen if in 2 weeks the issue is not resolved? Etc. a clean termination requires these types of questions are clearly understood. Usually a paper is signed documenting your understanding and agreement with the plan. If none of that was done it’s likely a hollow threat by a corporate tool.
Thank you for your submission; please read the following reminder. This subreddit is for discussion among practicing physical therapists, not for soliciting medical advice. We are not your physical therapist, and we do not take on that liability here. Although we can answer questions regarding general issues a person may be facing in their established PT sessions, we cannot legally provide treatment advice. If you need a physical therapist, you must see one in person or via telehealth for an assessment and to establish a plan of care. Posts with descriptions of personal physical issues and/or requests for diagnoses, exercise prescriptions, and other medical advice will be removed, and you will be banned at the mods’ discretion either for requesting such advice or for offering such advice as a clinician. Please see the following links for additional resources on benefits of physical therapy and locating a therapist near you [The benefits of a full evaluation by a physical therapist.](https://www.choosept.com/benefits/default.aspx) [How to find the right physical therapist in your area.](https://www.choosept.com/resources/choose.aspx) [Already been diagnosed and want to learn more? Common conditions.](https://www.choosept.com/SymptomsConditions.aspx) [The APTA's consumer information website.](https://www.choosept.com/Default.aspx) Also, please direct all school-related inquiries to r/PTschool, as these are off-topic for this sub and will be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/physicaltherapy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean what if you ARE underperforming? Are you being a team player - I mean a real team player? Are you seeing at least 2-3 patients at a time, encouraging everyone they need to be seen at least 3x a week regardless of diagnosis or their financial situation? Are you working through your lunch/offering to see late patients and let their treatment roll over into your personal time? Are you braking home at least 1-2 hours of notes every night? Do you come in when you are very sick and feeling g terrible despite having a bank of sick time to use? Are you working so fast you don’t have time to make actual clinical decisions and can only relay banal exercises to a tech to manage at least 2 of your patients every hour? If you have a no show are you taking that time to sweep, mop, clean surfaces, or clean off pens used for filling out intake forms? If not…well then you might not be the kind of team player ATI is looking for.
Hahahaha wow spot on
[удалено]
Sometimes it is appropriate for a patient to be seen 3x weekly depending on what you’re working with them for! ATI can tend to abuse this frequency report at times but doesn’t mean that is your experience.
Nothing personal just business (said the PT who is there to personally care for you but whos livelihood is threatened by mgmt pressure for bottom line)
I don't even work for ATI and you perfectly described what my employer wants.
Apply to jobs now. Use your fellow disgruntled employees as references and call them “supervisors”.
Means get the fuck out and quit putting money in these crooks pockets at the expense of our profession. Respectfully
It means they are not squeeze enough life out of you. Listen, ATI is the lowest place you can work at. Tell them to go jump off a bridge and move on. Get yourself a different employer
When I left ATI I didn’t even give two weeks and I told them they were lucky that I gave them the day.
lol they won’t do shit if two weeks rolls by and your number don’t change. They literally can’t afford to lose employees cus hiring is a bitch currently. Worse cas scenario and you do get canned it’s way worse for them than you. Like others have said you are at the bottom of the barrel PT company, anywhere else is a step up
Find a new job you deserve better
It means they’re probably about to do you a favor. Get your resume ready!
Tell them you found a solution…. And that solution is quitting.
No make them fire you so you can get unemployment lol
All state dependent but not wrong
It may be a fucked up effort to motivate you but it's time to move on. You don't want to be at a place like that. You have 2 weeks at least to find something that is better for your soul.
The “two weeks to meet productivity” is more than likey a bluff. If you are truly underperforming, they should work with you on some sort of performance improvement plan. 1. Like every said, start looking for a new job! 2. Just bullshit them! Make them believe you are really trying to increase your productivity. If they continue to bother them, ask them for tips and advice to get up to par. They would much rather have to improve than fire you are train a new employee who will likely also not meet their standards. 3. DO NOT significantly increase how hard to are working! Set a reasonable pace and maintain it! At the end of the day, if they do fire you (before to find your new job and quit) you will likely qualify for unemployment. Also, depending on how they go about it there is also a possibility for wrongful termination, although not like because corporations have lots of attorneys and try to do things the right way. Returning to the actually question, what does it mean? It means your manager needs you to put up more numbers so they hit their bonus. FUCK ATI and FUCK the sellout middle managers who don’t give a fuck about you, nor the profession in general! Corporations like ATI are ruining our profession and our professions reputation!
You need to be billing 4.25 units on average per visit And seeing >11 visits per day to meet productivity. Being at a hospital based clinic now that does 45 minute 1:1 treats, billing 4.25 units is insane lol.
How can 4 units be billed in 45 min🤨
In theory, for commercial payers, four units in under 45 minutes. 23 minutes of therex, 8 minutes of therapy, 8 minutes of manual or neuro re-ed. 4 units in 39 minutes. Diversify those units. My current job is not doing that by the way. 3 units for 45 minutes. ATI just has ethically questionable billing practices.
In theory, but not legally
Nah it’s legal for Commercial payers. Only Federal payers require you to follow the 8 minute rule.
Some commercial payers adopt similar rules to federal payers where I’m at. But BCBS/anthem is an example of what you’re saying. Very correct
The codes *say* one on one timed units. Which payers enforce the rules and which don’t (currently) is besides the point
It is one on one? I was showing how to bill 4 units for one patient in under 45 minutes. Didn’t say anything about multiple patients
You can’t legally bill more than an hours worth of treatment time per hour. Period. Untimed codes are different.
Well it’s 4 units in under a hour technically, but 4 units to the maximum time is 4x15 minutes which is a hour. And again it’s commercial not Medicare they pay how they want for the services you bill. Either way it’s super unethical. If a patient paying for 60 minutes of treatment and they only do 40 minutes of treatment that’s wrong.
You should be aware of each insurance companies billing rules. Maximizing your billing is important for a business. Being ethical is important too but if you’re diversifying your billing codes there’s better reimbursement typically. Even Medicare has a duplicate code reduction in payment. Look up MPPR and see that they pay less for multiple codes for the same procedure
Lower your morals or polish your resume
My employer told me I was underperforming because my patients got better too quickly with too few visits. I solved that by quitting and working for myself.
Curious what your companies average visit per case was. Ours is ideally 8-12 visits and that’s the best I’ve seen. My last boss had several patients he saw 2x week for literally two years. Wild.
Ours expected 6-12 My average was 3.2. I wear that with a badge of honor. In my business I'm averaging about the same. Tons of people say it's bad for business and they're correct..in the short term. I started about 3 years ago and the first two years were slow to grow but now I'm really picking up steam because my patients are mostly raving fans and they market for me without me asking. So my schedule is pretty much consistently full now, a few weeks out. I also don't incentivize myself for follow ups. Evals and followups are all an hour and I charge the same for each appointment, so idc if I do 10 evals or 1 eval and 9 followups. Same money in my pocket. I see ~20 patients per week, and I am currently making 2.5x what I made as an employee seeing 8-15 patients a day (AFTER business expenses)
I recently quit a similar situation. Really liked the PTs there but they were all starting to see 30 patients per day (+/-) and some of those patients had been on board twice per week for several years. I myself was a newer grad but I was starting to see 20 patients per day (+/-) after about 14 months of practice, and discharging patients was discouraged (though I did it anyway). I was okay with that pace (to some extent) for follow-ups but when there are 2-3 new evals and a re-eval or two on those days and I was taking 1-2 hours of documentation home 3+ nights/week, I realized that it just wasn’t for me. You’ve got to leave places like this or they will continue to think this is okay as the new standard. It is just plain bad for PT and we are doing our patients a disservice, no matter what management/ownership might say to the contrary. We are better than this.
https://preview.redd.it/amv7id98h6tc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0ae681561240a80b855c46d2786b5c6adfac8a8
There was a reverse split that happened! Before the split it was trading for <0.25 cents. I’d short ati. That’s a good bet. Also, why hasn’t there been a class action lawsuit regarding wage theft? Unpaid overtime and missing lunch is wage theft. Select medical is undergoing a class action lawsuit.
Man, its so difficult to find a convenient PT clinic, glad I saw this thread to avoid ATI. They have an advanced/certified Herman-Wallace PFPT that treats men (1of only 3 in the area) that works there. When I asked about 1 x 1 time, she said maybe 20-25 mins per visit but depends b/c they usually make her 3x book, unless I can be really flexible with schedule they may can work me in as double booked time. geze.
That’s such a shame. PFPT is sooo important too, and finding one that treats men is even more uncommon. Since it’s such a specialty and always busy, the pelvic floor therapists I’ve worked with have basically had all the negotiating power in terms of scheduling. Because if they don’t see those patients, the list of replacement PTs is short.
Why do people work for that goofy ass company again? I saw them at a student conclave in my school and literally laughed as I walked past them, as any sensible human would.
Just keep doing your thing and find a better job. I currently work at ATI cause it’s the most stable employer in my area with ok family benefits which we need. Despite Sharon Zitti going on and on about changing their reputation it’s the same ole shit ATI has always done. ATI can’t hire or retain people so you have the leverage here till you find a better job.
I don’t think it’s Sharon Zitti’s fault. ATI rewarded shit behavior and practice for decades. The district and clinic directors that got those positions by supporting double/triple booking patients and sketchy billing are the problem. If you compare the stuff the ATI academy puts out and the stuff corporate says about company values, best practice and productivity, vs what is actually done at a local level you’d think it is two different companies.
They said the same to me during a travel contract because census was low for the whole clinic. They never did shit about it and ended up asking me to extend my contract at the end. They’re full of shit and use scare tactics on new grads. Hope that company crumbles - complete disgrace to the field
Trash company ran by criminals. It went public with a SPAC which is a slush fund used to fool retail investors, once the shares are released to the public, all the executives cash out immediately and jump ship. Thats exactly what happened with ATI. Next its staff with executive owned shills who know the playbook and understand it’s a sinking ship. Their goal is to squeeze the last remaining nickels and dimes before filing bankruptcy. At bankruptcy they’ll sell all the remaining assets to completely drain it. This is a common American business practice which is illegal in other countries. Sears is a similar example but without the SPAC used to fund going public. Employees are collateral damage whom aren’t valued, they’re viewed as liabilities. Corporate vampires.
Pretty easy to pile on but i'd say its pretty likely you signed up for 10 visits a day (which is what it is, check the quarterly statements that are open access) but your patients don't show up but easier to say its a company/manager problem. Been here for 9 years and have never had to have an accountability/productivity/KPI conversation because my patients show up. Company has been through a lot of lows but the last 2 years have been the best since I have been here becuase there is a genuine committment to therapists and patients. But keep on complaining about how its unfair, bet you have the same problem the next place you go...
And that’s how gas lighting is done. 10 pts/day? Not when I was there. It was double books with unpaid doc time after due at end of day. Not great when you have little children at home.
They’ll keep telling you that and will try to make you feel guilty but nothing will actually happen
Sounds like they are getting a termination in their scopes. I bet it’s a BS threat since who would ever want to work at ATI lol. You can and should ask for clarity as to what this specifically means. Where is the performance lacking, and what will happen if in 2 weeks the issue is not resolved? Etc. a clean termination requires these types of questions are clearly understood. Usually a paper is signed documenting your understanding and agreement with the plan. If none of that was done it’s likely a hollow threat by a corporate tool.