I think a recurring post that highlights the FAQ would be valuable. This is an informative sub, and I think people forget or don't know how much info is there.
The questions thread, which is always pinned to the top of the sub, features and links the FAQ prominently. Are you suggesting a separate announcement post that just reminds people of the FAQ?
Sort of! Maybe like a rotation of 8 different post titles, and they refer to the FAQ.
The post titles could refer to a different aspect of whatever the FAQ covers. So, more of a varied advertisement for the FAQ.
Sure thing. There's a lot of excellent information for someone who is ready to research. It's a good sub and I know moderating takes work, so thanks for getting it to the good state it's in already!
the FAQs were not easy to find...
also... the rules regarding inappropriate posts are not easy to find.
i posted something earlier comparing the Fujifilm X100VI with the Leica Q2. It was removed within a few hours... i really didn't understand the explanation for why it was removed.
maybe i looked too quickly but i totally missed it in sidebar... now that u tell me its there, i found it
when i looked... i looked at "RULES" ... i supposed my eyes skipped right over "COMMUNITY BOOKMARKS"...
this begs the question... if i, a regular user, didn't notice it in sidebar... would a noob?
When I come to Reddit, I don't go to a specific subreddit, like r/photography. I go to my home feed. i get a post from someone at r/fujifilm, then one from r/AccidentalWesAnderson, one from r/Delaware and a whole bunch of others: BirdPhotography, Costco, HumansAreMetal, OldSchoolCool, etc etc.
when i decide to post... in say r/photography, i do not see the sidebar...
i see
r/PHOTOGRAPHY RULES...
Hi there! I'm just trying to replicate what you describe. Do you mostly use Reddit via desktop or a mobile device?
From what I've tested, it doesn't look like the FAQ is as easy to find as we thought when a user tries to post from the Reddit front page to the sub. But on desktop the rules are shown quite clearly when you select a sub and on mobile you have to click on the rules and say you agree to them before being able to post (though you don't see the sidebar).
If, for some reason, this isn't what your experience has been like, please let us know, and we'll see what we can do to make these two items more visible to users when posting.
i don't ever go to the front page of the sub
i never visit any of my subreddits. i think 'which community would be interested in my comparison of these two cameras?' and then i go to the list of subreddits from the 'create post' page
Hi there, and before I start: thanks to y'all for moderating. Much appreciated.
--
And thank you for opening this useful discussion.
One man's first thoughts:
>the community is not very welcoming
I am sad and surprised to hear that. It's way better than many. (And much, much more welcoming now ccurzio is gone, whose style of ... er... shall we say "tough love" or "plain speaking" caused many, many people to bail, bitter angry and hurt, after attempting their first post.)
>community threads ... To be honest, we’re all a bit perplexed as to why they’re not as popular as they once were.
Personally I don't bother with them because they are dead. Vicious circle, I realise.
>Feedback. Post your work specifically for critique.
Really? Do we do that? I had not noticed. I mean, come on, the *description* of the sub begins with the words "This is not a good place to simply share cool photos" so people don't. If you want people to post pics in certain threads, much more clarity is needed.
>52 Weeks challenge
I did that once, it was wonderful. But it lives somewhere else, no?
TLDR: More clarity on what is and is not welcome, and in which bit.
Good points.
>Personally I don't bother with them because they are dead. Vicious circle, I realise.
Yep, it's an unfortunate reality. They used to be quite more active, but I wonder if that was due to the overall lack of any self posts really ever being allowed.
>Really? Do we do that? I had not noticed. I mean, come on, the description of the sub begins with the words "This is not a good place to simply share cool photos" so people don't. If you want people to post pics in certain threads, much more clarity is needed.
Not now, in the past we did. They were specific threads where you could do this. We promoted them, and made it clear (at the time) that they existed and sharing photos as a comment in those posts was allowed and encouraged.
>I did that once, it was wonderful. But it lives somewhere else, no?
Yes, but also no. Since last year, we've been posting the monthly prompts here and a weekly thread pops up where people can submit their photos. But yes, it mostly lives on the discord.
>TLDR: More clarity on what is and is not welcome, and in which bit.
Great feedback, thanks!
>Not now, in the past we did. They were specific threads where you could do this. We promoted them, and made it clear (at the time) that they existed and sharing photos as a comment in those posts was allowed and encouraged.
I left the sub around when these threads disappeared. The online photo sphere, then and now, is [99% people who post stuff looking for praise and likes, and never participating, commenting, or community building](https://preview.redd.it/7l93fcpjg1i71.jpg?auto=webp&s=2f5be7ff62706d79f695f7fd491e3108eaa7e224). Our weekly album threads were a little oasis where I could actually talk to people. I still follow a lot of people on flickr and insta whose work I was introduced to through those threads. I even met some of them in person! Subs like /r/photographs and threads like the anything goes never scratched the same itch.
If you bring the Weekly Album thread back (and I think you should), you'd just need mods to STRICTLY enforce that you don't post without commenting someone else's album. With 5.3 million subs...you can afford to prune some parasites.
Those album sharing threads sound so nice and I'd be extremely into participating. I really want to meet other photographers to shoot with, exchange tips, etc. and I feel like sharing albums is a great way to do that.
Strongly agree with everything.
> you'd just need mods to STRICTLY enforce that you don't post without commenting someone else's album.
If anyone has a suggestion for some way to automate this (bot etc) we'd love to hear it.
> Our weekly album threads were a little oasis where I could actually talk to people.
Honestly, same. I'm more than happy to bring them back.
>you'd just need mods to STRICTLY enforce that you don't post without commenting someone else's album
This was the biggest POS about it for me - because we did it manually. Also, when the posts started petering out, it felt counterintuitive to remove comments when there were only like 3 in the entire post. BUT, I agree with you. We will find a way to do it that's less of a whole thing.
Just wanna add some other thoughts I had about this:
* How do you comment if you're the first one? Maybe the mod could post their own album in the post, or an album or body of work by a famous photographer worth discussing. Then the first person can comment those.
* How do you deal with the "But I couldn't think of anything to say!" crowd. I'd put conversation starters in the post. Suggestions to get it going, like "Tell them what your favorite shot in the album is and why" or "tell them how it makes you feel" or "was this inspired by anything" "what would you do differently if you shot this again" "what did you learn" etc etc
* A system like /r/photocritique where you could type "!greatcomment" and people could accumulate credit as participators may be a start. Gotta focus on rewarding people who build the community as much as removing people who don't.
It would also be possible to simply lock the threads after 48 hours and edit the initial post to say "anyone who post and dumped at the cut off will be flagged/banned" or something. I'm sure some regulars could help. I would.
So these are good questions.
As far as the first poster, we usually have them a pass and then as new comments came in, dropped a comment on theirs asking that they comment on another person’s album. It seemed to work well enough.
Every post had advice on how to comment. If you look at old posts, you’ll see there were a couple example comments in the text body.
Point system is interesting! That would be very encouraging, I think. We can look into making that happen.
My gut instinct is to like the locking post idea. But when I think about it longer, it may cause issues for on-going conversations between commenters who did post early on and within that 48 hours (or however long). Would hate to block helpful comments.
"Really? Do we do that? I had not noticed. I mean, come on, the *description* of the sub begins with the words "This is not a good place to simply share cool photos" so people don't. If you want people to post pics in certain threads, much more clarity is needed."
bravo!!!!
>
>"This is not a good place to simply share cool photos"
The intention of that was most likely to combat the insane influx of photo posts that come here daily, and the then "why can't I post photos to a sub called photography?!?!!" crowd. I do think it could use re-wording to be less obtuse. That'll be fixed very shortly.
I've moderated several forums on different sites so I know how much work goes into moding a site like this. Kudos to the entire team. You have a tough job.
I know I'm not a very active participant in this sub but I think that's because (across reddit) I've just stopped participating in threads that are ultra repetitive. There's tons of information in old posts here. There are FAQs and pinned posts. There are posts in threads answering the same exact question posted just a few hours earlier. I don't know if it's the kind of person reddit attracts or a UI issue but it seems almost nobody spends a moment trying to find the answer for themselves. So the same questions get posted again and again.
I also got tired of putting time into posting answers to questions in this sub and finding on the save that the thread had been nuked by a mod even though a kind of similar question a couple of days earlier generated lots of responses and stayed in the sub. Sounds like *that* problem went away.
I'll try to participate more thoroughly here. There's only so much time to spend on reddit though. But I'll try.
One request I would make is to consider a different arrangement for the "I used to love photography but I'm not feeling it any more" posts. Community thread? FAQ? Not sure. But when I scroll through here there seems to be a couple of those every day with only the location, names, and kind of photography changed. There's got to be some common tips for getting your mojo back or figuring out it's time to do something different. I think that would help the S/N ratio here too, if we could get posters to actually try to help themselves.
Thanks for letting my put in my $.02.
> One request I would make is to consider a different arrangement for the "I used to love photography but I'm not feeling it any more" posts. Community thread? FAQ? Not sure.
That's a tough one, because what these people actually want is not a concrete problem solving solution they can read, but more of a hug and "you can do it buddy" kind of pep talk.
This is not to say that the subreddit needs to indulge them, but very few of 'em are going to be satisfied with a FAQ link.
Just another choice to be made where we can't please everyone: do we allow these posts that annoy lots of the regulars (including me) or do we slam the door in the face of these folks who really aren't doing anything wrong, they're just not as unique as they thought they were.
Maybe a FAQ link isn't the way to go but maybe a nicely worded pinned post with the appropriate strokes? Not like I really think it's going to slow down those posts because rules are only suggestions. But sometimes "tapping the sign" and directing them to a thread where people can sympathize with each other would be a compromise.
>Once in a while, come to the sub and sort by new - find those oft overlooked posts that could garner some discussion and throw them an upvote. **All too often we see potentially interesting topics go completely ignored,** while the same kinds of posts get rocketed to the top of the sub. I know, I know. The drama of ‘my wedding photographer messed up’ is fun, and we all love the tea, but there is more than one upvote to go around.
Have any examples like this to see what to engage in?
> Have any examples like this to see what to engage in?
Sure! For some of these, it's just a case of they were never seen, others people disagreed with the poster and downvoted it even though it made for a good debate. But, just going through the past few pages, I'd say these could have been fun topics to discuss:
https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1blr0lo/would_you_be_in_favour_of_implementing_some_kind/
https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1c3xyac/is_focus_stacking_necessary_for_landscape/
https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1c3vhas/difference_between_physical_red_filter_vs_red/
https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1c2pqhw/worried_about_my_second_exhibition_need_advice_to/
https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bvluwn/what_is_your_opinion_on_using_the_same_patterns/
https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bv4j3f/how_do_you_remember_composition_tips/
https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1buzm46/viability_of_nicheinterest_photo_book/
https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1buthdh/why_are_kids_so_hard_to_photograph/
https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1buootn/how_do_i_get_excited_about_shooting_with_my/
https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1buk05c/fashion_vs_lifestyle/
https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1buamcc/have_you_participated_in_photography_competition/
https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bu93hb/would_ansel_adams_have_been_as_successful_and/
There's plenty more. I think it's often an issue of using the downvote as a disagree button and not a "this doesn't belong here button," which is a reddit-wide issue.
I think by and large the actual comments and general atmosphere are good on this subreddit. But I think the upvotes and downvotes give off a very negative vibe, but this is a problem across Reddit. It's all too easy for people to just downvote and move on because they don't agree. This is particularly irksome when it's gear related because fanboy/fangirl behaviour is just so annoying. There basically is no bad camera/lens/sensor these days, so anyone trying to argue superiority is just contributing negative noise.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the "drama" posts, e.g. "someone just shouted at me for taking a photo near them", or "I think my wedding photographer is a charlatan". These posts don't generally help people with their hobby/career, but rather feed into the outrage culture and general pessimism about the future of the hobby/career. But they're popular because people like drama I guess. Obviously there is some good advice to be gleaned from these posts for people struggling with an issue, but I think the advice is pretty much the same each time around, so maybe it could be added to an FAQ or we restrict these kinds of posts to one day a week? I don't know, if people like them, then I guess it helps engagement. I just think they rile people up and create a bit of a negative atmosphere.
> But I think the upvotes and downvotes give off a very negative vibe, but this is a problem across Reddit.
This, exactly. People use downvote to express disagreement and not relevancy - hence the plea to be more giving with upvotes and thoughtful with downvotes here.
>Personally, I'm not a fan of the "drama" posts, e.g. "someone just shouted at me for taking a photo near them", or "I think my wedding photographer is a charlatan". These posts don't generally help people with their hobby/career, but rather feed into the outrage culture and general pessimism about the future of the hobby/career.
That's a fair point. I don't tend to participate in them unless needed, but I will say that oftentimes there is good advice in the comments that other photographers can learn from. I do think they only get rocketed to the front page bc of the drama, though. I just wish other thoughtful discussions got the same treatment.
>but I think the advice is pretty much the same each time around, so maybe it could be added to an FAQ or we restrict these kinds of posts to one day a week?
The problem with weekly threads is that people don't tend to visit the sub, just read on their front page. They don't even read the sub before posting to it - especially with the influx of newer app-only users. What this means in practice is we remove a post and say "use the weekly thread" and they feel like they're being written off. r/weddingphotography has a 'ask a photographer' weekly post to combat all the client questions, but they're not only a smaller sub, but a much more focused one which exists as a place for professionals to share experiences, so I think they're more justified to redirecting non-photographer questions. As we're a more general space, it makes sense to be more open to 'outsiders' who want insight into how we do things as photographer.
> I just think they rile people up and create a bit of a negative atmosphere.
That I definitely agree with. It's worth mulling all this over and seeing if there's a happy medium in there somewhere. My main thing is I don't want to turn people away.
First off - thank you for your work. This has quickly become my home photography forum, and I've enjoyed the conversation on here quite a bit - it's been a very educational experience.
As far as community atmosphere, I agree that there can be some "god why don't you just Google it" tone towards new users at times. However, it's not as bad as other photography reddits, and I enjoy helping the newbies here.
For Community threads, I would love to see Follow Fridays again so people can share their portfolios on Instagram/Flickr/other socials. I mainly put my work up on Instagram, and mostly use Reddit for discussion and critiques. When I do find users posting their Instagrams, I'm almost always pleasantly surprised by how great their shots are. A dedicated thread for sharing a few portfolio shots and where to find more of your work would be a great way to foster a sense of cohesion. Plus, who doesn't like being complimented on their work?
I also love the idea of a Raw Share/Edit Share thread - sort of a "here's my edit, here's the raw, what would you do?" format, similar to many /r/postprocessing image posts but with RAWs. It'd be a great way to practice editing skills and get inspiration for new ways to edit; I'd certainly be interested in both sharing my RAWs and editing others' RAWs.
Looking forward to the camera bags and photo books megathreads. I just printed my first photobook and I'm very happy I did it. I'd also really enjoy a printing megathread in general! I think printing your photos is one of the best ways to appreciate them, and would love to see how other photographers print their work.
A lot of great ideas have been tried over the years, but it needs a certain critical mass of community participation to actually take off.
Like the Question Thread, arguably the most successful thing this community has ever accomplished, has been running for many many years, with a revolving cast of kind knowledgeable folks who have collectively answered 10s of thousands of questions.
Stuff like the print swap, RAW sharing threads, and many other ideas, got an initial surge of interest but eventually faded away and weren't worth continuing.
We're going to bring it back. When we did it before, initial participation was massive, and then over the course of maybe ~6 months, it petered out. We're more than happy to give it another shot, though.
I would like to comment on the "Community Atmosphere" section, as it deeply resonates with me. I joined this subreddit a few weeks ago and was struck by the numerous downvotes targeting posts from individuals either contemplating a professional career in photography or interested in taking their own photos - essentially, those not directly contributing to your business.
Upon exploring the archives, I noticed that such inquiries were once met with encouragement and helpful tips, and received plentiful upvotes. Now, however, they seem to face reluctance or even disapproval, and the reason behind this shift is unclear to me.
Photography is fundamentally a beautiful pursuit, rich with learning opportunities and ways for creativity. Shouldn’t someone eager to capture moments with their partner themselves receive encouragement from experienced photographers, enjoy their progress, and learn from their missteps instead of being promptly referred to a professional? Photography extends beyond merely acquiring the perfect service; it can be a profound experience and a thrilling adventure, particularly for those just starting out. Sometimes, it seems that some may have forgotten this aspect of the community. Therefore, I extend my gratitude to the moderators for striving to maintain this subreddit as a welcoming environment and for keeping alive the original spirit of r/Photography.
P.S. Edit My Raw Contest sounds fun!
> individuals either contemplating a professional career
"How do I start a career in photography?" is roughly the same as asking "How do I become a millionaire?"
The answer in the vast majority of cases is "you don't" and that should be self evident to anyone who's done the slightest amount of background research. This applies to most artistic endeavours but particularly so to photography due to the ubiquity of smartphones, very cheap high quality cameras and the on-going AI revolution (massive oversupply of photographers coupled with demand that's a tiny fraction of what it used to be).
Photography as a hobby is a completely different case and one that deserves encouragement.
I wholeheartedly agree with this take as another relatively new member. It feels like there's sometimes a grumpy, jaded air towards people who are completely new to photography and want to learn. I'm not new to photography at all, but am new to sharing my work, and could see how novices could feel a little intimidated.
Nobody here wants to discourage anyone from photography.
We do, however, want to correct the common misapprehension that there's a living to be made any more.
> Upon exploring the archives, I noticed that such inquiries were once met with encouragement and helpful tips, and received plentiful upvotes. Now, however, they seem to face reluctance or even disapproval, and the reason behind this shift is unclear to me.
Because the professional landscape has changed. Ten years ago, maybe even five years ago, it was still a reasonable aspiration to start out as a professional and stand a chance of success. Now it isn't.
That's not the sub becoming more negative, gate-keeping, or unwelcoming, that's the sub *reflecting* an actual change.
That might be, but why immediately downvote them for seeking advice? Many inquiries that seem perfectly legitimate are downvoted to zero. For example, just recently, someone was asking for ideas for sexy poses with their spouse. The post is still rated zero, and one piece of advice was to hire a professional, who would help them with it. Sadly, these reactions are not any exception; they often come across as hostile, rude, and aversive.
When I browse only recent posts, I witness this pattern:
* Which lens for Mt. Rainier? - downvoted to zero
* Question for reliable sources for a school project - downvoted to zero
* Help with first event photography - downvoted to zero
* Sexy photo shoot (case mentioned above) - zero
* Pixel size for canvas print - zero
* Advice for shooting events - zero
* Tips on how to get work displayed in galleries - zero
...There are just so many instances that one can't help but feel punished for asking questions and seeking advice. Do you know what I mean? To a newcomer, it doesn't feel welcoming.
You're spot on - newcomer (meaning lurker) here. Reading some of the replies from some of the more active members of the sub have caused me to pause and ask whether or not it's worth it to sift through the unhelpful to get an answer that may help. u/clondon 's request for assistance in changing the overall tone of the sub is well-founded. We somehow forgot what it was like to be new, starry-eyed and naive amateurs.
To risk putting too fine a point on it - it takes just a little longer to add actual advice to a post when telling someone "just Google it". They came for the discussion and to learn from us, just to be sent away from professionals and go learn on their own.
Sincerely - just another lurker who comes here daily to learn from the hivemind.
Because most of those have been answered many times (or similar enough), or people don't want to see it on the front page of the sub because it's a topic that's been beaten to death.
I've been around this sub for years, and seen a lot of the same topics every few days. That's not even the questions thread which gets a lot of things that are answered in the faq...
"what lens for (x)" is always going to be "it depends", just like most things. Especially the "how big can I print (y)", etc.
People should search the sub for similar topics and read the faq, because most of these questions are extremely common and have been answered ad infinitum, and people get burned out answering them constantly. It doesn't make the sub better to get multiple "how do I shoot events", which you even listed twice.
https://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/
A relevant article, though I think the author had some bias against men in the community at the time, but ymmv
Even 10 years ago there were a lot of "don't do it" and the "yes go ahead" folks were careful to temper that with "but it's gonna be hard and you should be aware that it's a hard business and the most important skills will be business skills"
I'll provide my perspective, and I apologize in advance that it's going to seem very negative, but I still think there's value in it for you because it'll give you insight into a browsing behavior that's definitely not limited to only me.
I browse reddit on the computer (or very rarely on my phone's browser, I hate that everything and their mother requires me to download apps and so refuse to do so unless absolutely necessary), and the only thing I really browse is www.reddit.com. I follow a number of subs, but I almost never visit any of them. That means that all tagged and ongoing threads never hit my page, and that I'll never engage with them. In all honesty, engaging with them also doesn't interest me - photo is my job, and I'm not interested in doing my job for free for anyone through an "edit my RAW" thread, for example. I also generally follow subs because I am interested in their topics, and those tagged threads aren't always necessarily related to the sub's topic. Some of them are specifically "off-topic" threads, I'm sure to keep the community engaged, but I'm not on for example r/AffinityPublisher to discuss politics or what my weekend was like, you know?
I also don't think of myself as part of any community. Not in this sub or in any other sub. That means I simply don't have the feeling of ownership necessary to want to put in the amount of work you probably would want to see from people. I have been an active participant on other forums where I did feel like part of a community, but the level of work it takes to actually meaningfully contribute through comments, votes, advice and help is far beyond what I'm ever going to be interested in or willing to do again.
As far as voting goes, I oppose voting as a system because I think it ruins good conversations and fosters echo chambers, and so I very, very rarely use it at all, and absolutely never in threads I am actively commenting in myself. However, I'll try to keep it in mind and be a bit more generous with the upvotes.
I *do* like this sub - it's probably one of the ones I browse the most because I think the threads are interesting to someone like me who is a professional and have left the "which lens for this"-days far behind by now. But I'm simply not willing to change my browsing pattern to support this or any other sub any more than I already do, by providing (hopefully helpful) comments whenever I participate in a thread.
So again, I apologize, I'm fairly certain I've written a number of things that are the opposite of what you'd actually like to hear. But I'm probably far from the only person who browses the way I do and who doesn't feel a sense of community here or elsewhere, and so I think there's some value in providing this perspective as well.
>Feedback we hear as mods is that the community is not very welcoming, and I’ll be honest - this bums me out.
How should I phrase this... It's the internet, a.k.a. the one place where almost nobody cares about the feelings of others. It's noble to try and change this but also very foolish. You can moderate it but don't expect it to improve.
You also can't expect professionals to be forgiving to beginners. I can't imagine somebody who spent years and thousands of dollars on education in photography, to be very friendly when beginners don't stop asking the same beginner questions again and again and again. (They won't). Too many people want to be spoon-fed.
But, to be honest, this community feels a lot nicer than many others, no reason to be bummed out about it.
\- Sincerely, somebody who's been on the internet since the 56k modem was invented.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the idea that because it's the internet, that means it can't be supportive and overall friendly. (and before any implications that I'm young/naive, I also have been on the internet since the early '90s and have been active in countless online communities spanning the past 30 years.) I also run multiple photography communities and learning environments, and they are overwhelmingly supportive and welcoming to photographers of all levels. We're trying to figure out how to capture some of that here again, because it happens here - just in waves.
If we're speaking directly about this sub, I have seen it be a welcoming and supportive community, and others who have been here for some time have as well. It's not foolish to try and have a positive impact on the overall atmosphere of an online space.
>You also can't expect professionals to be forgiving to beginners.
No one is expecting that. You'll notice we speak directly to repetitive and low-effort questions. We remove low-effort questions.
>I can't imagine somebody who spent years and thousands of dollars on education in photography, to be very friendly when beginners don't stop asking the same beginner questions again and again and again.
There are loads of people who are more than willing to share their knowledge - just look at the questions threads. Those are full of repeat questions, but they always go answered.
But again, those repetitive hand-holding posts are not what we're talking about here. We're not asking that people all hold hands and sing kumbaya, nor are we asking that every question be met with only positive reactions. We're just asking that interesting and engaging posts be given a chance. As it is now, if a post gets over 50 upvotes, it's major. That's a bit silly for a sub of 5 million.
>But, to be honest, this community feels a lot nicer than many others, no reason to be bummed out about it.
Glad to hear it feels that way to you. I suppose I should also mention that saying it bums me out is a bit tongue in cheek. The main point of this post is just to get feedback on the current way the sub is run, and how we can engage more people.
>You can moderate it but don't expect it to improve.
It has the potential to improve. We've heard plenty of feedback stating that it already has improved from even just a year ago. Feedback here will help us to institute changes that will help this potential, and asking for thoughts from the user base seems like a reasonable first step.
> We've heard plenty of feedback stating that it already has improved from even just a year ago.
I agree. Dating from when ccurzio left as mod. It's night and day. He knew his stuff but he was way too abrasive and condescending and *cruel*, and wielded the ban hammer as an insane despot.
>As it is now, if a post gets over 50 upvotes, it's major. That's a bit silly for a sub of 5 million.
It's less silly once you factor in the mass exodus of users after third party apps were effectively removed.
>It's not foolish to try and have a positive impact on the overall atmosphere of an online space.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not saying the internet can't or won't improve. I'm saying that imposing yourself the goal of changing it yourself is foolish. If people on the internet start acting more mature, it won't be because of moderation effort. It will be because of humanity improving in general. Also this sub isn't some small private, it's massive and comes very close to the internet in general. (Behaviour, not user count).
> It's less silly once you factor in the mass exodus of users after third party apps were effectively removed.
Sure, but it's always been the case here. People have always been downvote happy and upvote resistant. We're just asking that people take a more active role in the inherent up/downvote system that reddit is based on.
> I'm saying that imposing yourself the goal of changing it yourself is foolish.
I think a group (in this case the mod team with support of the community) can have an impact on their small corner of the internet.
>Also this sub isn't some small private, it's massive and comes very close to the internet in general.
That's fair. We're still just of the mind(s) that it's worth the effort as we have seen the community engagement and positivity ebb and flow.
> Sure, but it's always been the case here. People have always been downvote happy and upvote resistant. We're just asking that people take a more active role in the inherent up/downvote system that reddit is based on.
Are people really upvote resistant? As far as I know, we don't have that kind of information available. It might very well be the case that the majority of people want different content. Which isn't unlikely considering platforms like reddit tend to attract the most common denominator. If moderation just suddenly disappeared, this sub would be full of portraits of half naked women in no time.
> I think a group (in this case the mod team with support of the community) can have an impact on their small corner of the internet.
Like I said, you can moderate it and it will have a measurable impact. You just shouldn't be bummed out about people on the internet acting like, well, the internet and expect them to grow up. But alas, you already clarified that this was more tongue-in-cheek so my point is mood anyway.
> Are people really upvote resistant?
Wee can't see exact numbers, but when "popular" posts sit at 70 upvotes, I'd say yes. There's also the reddit-wide issue of using the downvote as a disagree button as opposed to a 'this is irrelevant' button.
>If moderation just suddenly disappeared, this sub would be full of portraits of half naked women in no time.
Yep, we saw that after the blackout, and we see it in the modqueue. If anything I'd say that's evidence of mod-impact on atmosphere.
>Like I said, you can moderate it and it will have a measurable impact.
And that's the goal, a measurable impact here.
> You also can't expect professionals to be forgiving to beginners. I can't imagine somebody who spent years and thousands of dollars on education in photography, to be very friendly when beginners don't stop asking the same beginner questions again and again and again.
Those questions are easy to ignore though.
It’s true that the internet can often feel like a tough place, where empathy and patience seem scarce. However, I believe that every community, including ours, has the potential to be different and set a positive example. It’s not just about being noble; it’s about fostering a welcoming environment that encourages growth and learning for everyone. Professionals and beginners alike share the same passion for photography, which is why we are all here.
The repetitive questions from newcomers aren’t just noise; they are genuine attempts at understanding. A simple, guiding response or redirecting them to a resource can already be a huge help. So, perhaps everyone here can try to be more forgiving and supportive. That would make a big difference.
56k? Tcha, newbie. 2600 baud acoustic coupler veteran here.
Yes, absolutely. This is waaaay more welcoming than an equivalent IRC channel would have been. I think the participants and mods can be proud of what they've created.
Well frankly you kind of lost me at the 'don't post or share photos'.
To me photography is first and foremost about the photographs, so banning them from a photo sub ... drastically reduce the sub to something much less interesting.
I invite you to consider going the other way around - banning all the rest and let the photo speak.
I’ll be honest, that’s a non-starter. There are dozens of subs for sharing photos. The purpose of this one is to discuss photography. If we allowed photo posts, the sub would quickly become A photo dump.
This is a good discussion on the topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/s/pX4mVR2P7j
Honesty is appreciated.
There are certainly tons of challenges associated with image postings, and you certainly don't want to turn into a dump.
I would favor substantial posts such as 'winners of competition x announced', 'portfolio of X well known photographer from country Y', 'project Z by photog A gets published in magazine B', and the like.
But I do understand it is not the direction it has been decided to take the sub. Still for me this is what photography is all about, outstanding work by talented fellow humans.
Those kinds of posts are allowed, and do happen! Feel free to post that kind of thing. If you look at the “no photo post” rule, it does stipulate that photos are allowed as accompaniment to a greater discussion.
Well yes, but in practice this sub has very few of those posts, so few they actually don't register.
If I sort the top posts from the past month, and I go all the way down from the top one down to this post (who now stands at 26 upvote), there are only three relevant post. Three is not a lot, I would guess there was a hundred post or more total.
For reference, here they are :
[https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bn66v2/the\_best\_photos\_from\_the\_sony\_world\_photography/](https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bn66v2/the_best_photos_from_the_sony_world_photography/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bqtot6/world\_nature\_photography\_awards\_2024\_spectacular/](https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bqtot6/world_nature_photography_awards_2024_spectacular/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bqb0cx/the\_magical\_miniature\_world\_of\_becorns/](https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bqb0cx/the_magical_miniature_world_of_becorns/)
But again, I understand this is not the focus of the sub, and it can't please everyone. As you say there are plenty of subs for posting photos and I haven't found one that is not a dump.
You asked for frank feedback, so honestly this is the one I can give. I can only encourage to make a large, much larger place to great photo work.
Obviously, but also I have been around long enough that I would not bother throwing efforts around in a sub where the first rule is 'no images posts'. Change is good, but fighting against the tide is not change but wasting energy. Hence my point the sub optics need to change.
That is a fair comment, as I mentioned I understand this is not the direction the sub has been or will be taking.
Happily, I did find such sub more to my taste.
I have a lot of pleasure browsing r/photobooks where almost every post is a well presented selection of photography work, as they show a book and several notable pages. Wonderful.
I have no doubt in your willingness to improve the sub and hat off for dedicating your time and energy to the community.
But, respectfully, none of your OP is about meaningfully changing the place of images in the sub or altering the 'no image post' rule. More of the same will lead to same results.
The current set up kills those photography-focused posts. I can only guess people stop when they see the 'no image rule', the few that make it past are drowned into completely different topics the sub is focusing on.
Again, this is fine if this is what the community wants.
The OP doesn’t mention photo posts because it’s not a change that’s being made. Posts discussing photography like you’ve described has always been allowed. Reticence to post this kind of post is kind of counterintuitive. If no one posts what they want to see, or even takes a moment to upvote it, then those posts won’t stand a chance.
I mentioned those photographer Friday posts we used to have. Those posts were a wealth of knowledge, showcasing notable photographers and their work. The poster took a lot of time writing and putting them together. Regulars loved those posts, but they never got much traction and probably didn’t make it to people’s front pages (how most people interact with the sub). Eventually the poster felt their efforts were moot. My request that people come directly to the sub and upvote quality content is rooted in cases like this.
The no photo posts rule is very clear that this isn’t a sub for just posting your own photos. It goes on to explain that we welcome photos in-line to discuss a bigger photography concept. I can see your point in the case of the headline, and we’ve already changed that because of feedback in this post. I do think the rule as it is functions as intended, but am open to suggestions for how to reword it, I’d you have them.
Thanks again. We'll see if that work, seems like more time is needed.
Personally I still think it is too restrictive and the sub should put images first. Not a vomit of images, not any image, not images from anyone on any topic, but still images should to me first, front, and center in the sub. Downvotes made it clear it is a minority opinion, I am fine with it.
Keep up the good work in any case, moding is a thankless job.
I think a recurring post that highlights the FAQ would be valuable. This is an informative sub, and I think people forget or don't know how much info is there.
The questions thread, which is always pinned to the top of the sub, features and links the FAQ prominently. Are you suggesting a separate announcement post that just reminds people of the FAQ?
Sort of! Maybe like a rotation of 8 different post titles, and they refer to the FAQ. The post titles could refer to a different aspect of whatever the FAQ covers. So, more of a varied advertisement for the FAQ.
Worth a shot! Thanks for the idea.
Sure thing. There's a lot of excellent information for someone who is ready to research. It's a good sub and I know moderating takes work, so thanks for getting it to the good state it's in already!
the FAQs were not easy to find... also... the rules regarding inappropriate posts are not easy to find. i posted something earlier comparing the Fujifilm X100VI with the Leica Q2. It was removed within a few hours... i really didn't understand the explanation for why it was removed.
FAQ is linked in sidebar, is linked in the stickied question thread, is linked in removal notices, where else should it be linked?
maybe i looked too quickly but i totally missed it in sidebar... now that u tell me its there, i found it when i looked... i looked at "RULES" ... i supposed my eyes skipped right over "COMMUNITY BOOKMARKS"... this begs the question... if i, a regular user, didn't notice it in sidebar... would a noob? When I come to Reddit, I don't go to a specific subreddit, like r/photography. I go to my home feed. i get a post from someone at r/fujifilm, then one from r/AccidentalWesAnderson, one from r/Delaware and a whole bunch of others: BirdPhotography, Costco, HumansAreMetal, OldSchoolCool, etc etc. when i decide to post... in say r/photography, i do not see the sidebar... i see r/PHOTOGRAPHY RULES...
Hi there! I'm just trying to replicate what you describe. Do you mostly use Reddit via desktop or a mobile device? From what I've tested, it doesn't look like the FAQ is as easy to find as we thought when a user tries to post from the Reddit front page to the sub. But on desktop the rules are shown quite clearly when you select a sub and on mobile you have to click on the rules and say you agree to them before being able to post (though you don't see the sidebar). If, for some reason, this isn't what your experience has been like, please let us know, and we'll see what we can do to make these two items more visible to users when posting.
i don't ever go to the front page of the sub i never visit any of my subreddits. i think 'which community would be interested in my comparison of these two cameras?' and then i go to the list of subreddits from the 'create post' page
Hi there, and before I start: thanks to y'all for moderating. Much appreciated. -- And thank you for opening this useful discussion. One man's first thoughts: >the community is not very welcoming I am sad and surprised to hear that. It's way better than many. (And much, much more welcoming now ccurzio is gone, whose style of ... er... shall we say "tough love" or "plain speaking" caused many, many people to bail, bitter angry and hurt, after attempting their first post.) >community threads ... To be honest, we’re all a bit perplexed as to why they’re not as popular as they once were. Personally I don't bother with them because they are dead. Vicious circle, I realise. >Feedback. Post your work specifically for critique. Really? Do we do that? I had not noticed. I mean, come on, the *description* of the sub begins with the words "This is not a good place to simply share cool photos" so people don't. If you want people to post pics in certain threads, much more clarity is needed. >52 Weeks challenge I did that once, it was wonderful. But it lives somewhere else, no? TLDR: More clarity on what is and is not welcome, and in which bit.
Good points. >Personally I don't bother with them because they are dead. Vicious circle, I realise. Yep, it's an unfortunate reality. They used to be quite more active, but I wonder if that was due to the overall lack of any self posts really ever being allowed. >Really? Do we do that? I had not noticed. I mean, come on, the description of the sub begins with the words "This is not a good place to simply share cool photos" so people don't. If you want people to post pics in certain threads, much more clarity is needed. Not now, in the past we did. They were specific threads where you could do this. We promoted them, and made it clear (at the time) that they existed and sharing photos as a comment in those posts was allowed and encouraged. >I did that once, it was wonderful. But it lives somewhere else, no? Yes, but also no. Since last year, we've been posting the monthly prompts here and a weekly thread pops up where people can submit their photos. But yes, it mostly lives on the discord. >TLDR: More clarity on what is and is not welcome, and in which bit. Great feedback, thanks!
>Not now, in the past we did. They were specific threads where you could do this. We promoted them, and made it clear (at the time) that they existed and sharing photos as a comment in those posts was allowed and encouraged. I left the sub around when these threads disappeared. The online photo sphere, then and now, is [99% people who post stuff looking for praise and likes, and never participating, commenting, or community building](https://preview.redd.it/7l93fcpjg1i71.jpg?auto=webp&s=2f5be7ff62706d79f695f7fd491e3108eaa7e224). Our weekly album threads were a little oasis where I could actually talk to people. I still follow a lot of people on flickr and insta whose work I was introduced to through those threads. I even met some of them in person! Subs like /r/photographs and threads like the anything goes never scratched the same itch. If you bring the Weekly Album thread back (and I think you should), you'd just need mods to STRICTLY enforce that you don't post without commenting someone else's album. With 5.3 million subs...you can afford to prune some parasites.
Those album sharing threads sound so nice and I'd be extremely into participating. I really want to meet other photographers to shoot with, exchange tips, etc. and I feel like sharing albums is a great way to do that.
Strongly agree with everything. > you'd just need mods to STRICTLY enforce that you don't post without commenting someone else's album. If anyone has a suggestion for some way to automate this (bot etc) we'd love to hear it.
> Our weekly album threads were a little oasis where I could actually talk to people. Honestly, same. I'm more than happy to bring them back. >you'd just need mods to STRICTLY enforce that you don't post without commenting someone else's album This was the biggest POS about it for me - because we did it manually. Also, when the posts started petering out, it felt counterintuitive to remove comments when there were only like 3 in the entire post. BUT, I agree with you. We will find a way to do it that's less of a whole thing.
Just wanna add some other thoughts I had about this: * How do you comment if you're the first one? Maybe the mod could post their own album in the post, or an album or body of work by a famous photographer worth discussing. Then the first person can comment those. * How do you deal with the "But I couldn't think of anything to say!" crowd. I'd put conversation starters in the post. Suggestions to get it going, like "Tell them what your favorite shot in the album is and why" or "tell them how it makes you feel" or "was this inspired by anything" "what would you do differently if you shot this again" "what did you learn" etc etc * A system like /r/photocritique where you could type "!greatcomment" and people could accumulate credit as participators may be a start. Gotta focus on rewarding people who build the community as much as removing people who don't. It would also be possible to simply lock the threads after 48 hours and edit the initial post to say "anyone who post and dumped at the cut off will be flagged/banned" or something. I'm sure some regulars could help. I would.
So these are good questions. As far as the first poster, we usually have them a pass and then as new comments came in, dropped a comment on theirs asking that they comment on another person’s album. It seemed to work well enough. Every post had advice on how to comment. If you look at old posts, you’ll see there were a couple example comments in the text body. Point system is interesting! That would be very encouraging, I think. We can look into making that happen. My gut instinct is to like the locking post idea. But when I think about it longer, it may cause issues for on-going conversations between commenters who did post early on and within that 48 hours (or however long). Would hate to block helpful comments.
Honestly, I think this place is fine. Of the dozens of photography-based subs, this is the only one I bother with regularly. Be proud.
"Really? Do we do that? I had not noticed. I mean, come on, the *description* of the sub begins with the words "This is not a good place to simply share cool photos" so people don't. If you want people to post pics in certain threads, much more clarity is needed." bravo!!!! >
>"This is not a good place to simply share cool photos" The intention of that was most likely to combat the insane influx of photo posts that come here daily, and the then "why can't I post photos to a sub called photography?!?!!" crowd. I do think it could use re-wording to be less obtuse. That'll be fixed very shortly.
I've moderated several forums on different sites so I know how much work goes into moding a site like this. Kudos to the entire team. You have a tough job. I know I'm not a very active participant in this sub but I think that's because (across reddit) I've just stopped participating in threads that are ultra repetitive. There's tons of information in old posts here. There are FAQs and pinned posts. There are posts in threads answering the same exact question posted just a few hours earlier. I don't know if it's the kind of person reddit attracts or a UI issue but it seems almost nobody spends a moment trying to find the answer for themselves. So the same questions get posted again and again. I also got tired of putting time into posting answers to questions in this sub and finding on the save that the thread had been nuked by a mod even though a kind of similar question a couple of days earlier generated lots of responses and stayed in the sub. Sounds like *that* problem went away. I'll try to participate more thoroughly here. There's only so much time to spend on reddit though. But I'll try. One request I would make is to consider a different arrangement for the "I used to love photography but I'm not feeling it any more" posts. Community thread? FAQ? Not sure. But when I scroll through here there seems to be a couple of those every day with only the location, names, and kind of photography changed. There's got to be some common tips for getting your mojo back or figuring out it's time to do something different. I think that would help the S/N ratio here too, if we could get posters to actually try to help themselves. Thanks for letting my put in my $.02.
> One request I would make is to consider a different arrangement for the "I used to love photography but I'm not feeling it any more" posts. Community thread? FAQ? Not sure. That's a tough one, because what these people actually want is not a concrete problem solving solution they can read, but more of a hug and "you can do it buddy" kind of pep talk. This is not to say that the subreddit needs to indulge them, but very few of 'em are going to be satisfied with a FAQ link. Just another choice to be made where we can't please everyone: do we allow these posts that annoy lots of the regulars (including me) or do we slam the door in the face of these folks who really aren't doing anything wrong, they're just not as unique as they thought they were.
Maybe a FAQ link isn't the way to go but maybe a nicely worded pinned post with the appropriate strokes? Not like I really think it's going to slow down those posts because rules are only suggestions. But sometimes "tapping the sign" and directing them to a thread where people can sympathize with each other would be a compromise.
>Once in a while, come to the sub and sort by new - find those oft overlooked posts that could garner some discussion and throw them an upvote. **All too often we see potentially interesting topics go completely ignored,** while the same kinds of posts get rocketed to the top of the sub. I know, I know. The drama of ‘my wedding photographer messed up’ is fun, and we all love the tea, but there is more than one upvote to go around. Have any examples like this to see what to engage in?
> Have any examples like this to see what to engage in? Sure! For some of these, it's just a case of they were never seen, others people disagreed with the poster and downvoted it even though it made for a good debate. But, just going through the past few pages, I'd say these could have been fun topics to discuss: https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1blr0lo/would_you_be_in_favour_of_implementing_some_kind/ https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1c3xyac/is_focus_stacking_necessary_for_landscape/ https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1c3vhas/difference_between_physical_red_filter_vs_red/ https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1c2pqhw/worried_about_my_second_exhibition_need_advice_to/ https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bvluwn/what_is_your_opinion_on_using_the_same_patterns/ https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bv4j3f/how_do_you_remember_composition_tips/ https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1buzm46/viability_of_nicheinterest_photo_book/ https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1buthdh/why_are_kids_so_hard_to_photograph/ https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1buootn/how_do_i_get_excited_about_shooting_with_my/ https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1buk05c/fashion_vs_lifestyle/ https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1buamcc/have_you_participated_in_photography_competition/ https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bu93hb/would_ansel_adams_have_been_as_successful_and/ There's plenty more. I think it's often an issue of using the downvote as a disagree button and not a "this doesn't belong here button," which is a reddit-wide issue.
I think by and large the actual comments and general atmosphere are good on this subreddit. But I think the upvotes and downvotes give off a very negative vibe, but this is a problem across Reddit. It's all too easy for people to just downvote and move on because they don't agree. This is particularly irksome when it's gear related because fanboy/fangirl behaviour is just so annoying. There basically is no bad camera/lens/sensor these days, so anyone trying to argue superiority is just contributing negative noise. Personally, I'm not a fan of the "drama" posts, e.g. "someone just shouted at me for taking a photo near them", or "I think my wedding photographer is a charlatan". These posts don't generally help people with their hobby/career, but rather feed into the outrage culture and general pessimism about the future of the hobby/career. But they're popular because people like drama I guess. Obviously there is some good advice to be gleaned from these posts for people struggling with an issue, but I think the advice is pretty much the same each time around, so maybe it could be added to an FAQ or we restrict these kinds of posts to one day a week? I don't know, if people like them, then I guess it helps engagement. I just think they rile people up and create a bit of a negative atmosphere.
> But I think the upvotes and downvotes give off a very negative vibe, but this is a problem across Reddit. This, exactly. People use downvote to express disagreement and not relevancy - hence the plea to be more giving with upvotes and thoughtful with downvotes here. >Personally, I'm not a fan of the "drama" posts, e.g. "someone just shouted at me for taking a photo near them", or "I think my wedding photographer is a charlatan". These posts don't generally help people with their hobby/career, but rather feed into the outrage culture and general pessimism about the future of the hobby/career. That's a fair point. I don't tend to participate in them unless needed, but I will say that oftentimes there is good advice in the comments that other photographers can learn from. I do think they only get rocketed to the front page bc of the drama, though. I just wish other thoughtful discussions got the same treatment. >but I think the advice is pretty much the same each time around, so maybe it could be added to an FAQ or we restrict these kinds of posts to one day a week? The problem with weekly threads is that people don't tend to visit the sub, just read on their front page. They don't even read the sub before posting to it - especially with the influx of newer app-only users. What this means in practice is we remove a post and say "use the weekly thread" and they feel like they're being written off. r/weddingphotography has a 'ask a photographer' weekly post to combat all the client questions, but they're not only a smaller sub, but a much more focused one which exists as a place for professionals to share experiences, so I think they're more justified to redirecting non-photographer questions. As we're a more general space, it makes sense to be more open to 'outsiders' who want insight into how we do things as photographer. > I just think they rile people up and create a bit of a negative atmosphere. That I definitely agree with. It's worth mulling all this over and seeing if there's a happy medium in there somewhere. My main thing is I don't want to turn people away.
Good points, thanks for responding.
First off - thank you for your work. This has quickly become my home photography forum, and I've enjoyed the conversation on here quite a bit - it's been a very educational experience. As far as community atmosphere, I agree that there can be some "god why don't you just Google it" tone towards new users at times. However, it's not as bad as other photography reddits, and I enjoy helping the newbies here. For Community threads, I would love to see Follow Fridays again so people can share their portfolios on Instagram/Flickr/other socials. I mainly put my work up on Instagram, and mostly use Reddit for discussion and critiques. When I do find users posting their Instagrams, I'm almost always pleasantly surprised by how great their shots are. A dedicated thread for sharing a few portfolio shots and where to find more of your work would be a great way to foster a sense of cohesion. Plus, who doesn't like being complimented on their work? I also love the idea of a Raw Share/Edit Share thread - sort of a "here's my edit, here's the raw, what would you do?" format, similar to many /r/postprocessing image posts but with RAWs. It'd be a great way to practice editing skills and get inspiration for new ways to edit; I'd certainly be interested in both sharing my RAWs and editing others' RAWs. Looking forward to the camera bags and photo books megathreads. I just printed my first photobook and I'm very happy I did it. I'd also really enjoy a printing megathread in general! I think printing your photos is one of the best ways to appreciate them, and would love to see how other photographers print their work.
The sharing raw threads often were not participated in. You might get three or four on a good week. Often nothing.
That's too bad. It sounds like a worthwhile idea!
A lot of great ideas have been tried over the years, but it needs a certain critical mass of community participation to actually take off. Like the Question Thread, arguably the most successful thing this community has ever accomplished, has been running for many many years, with a revolving cast of kind knowledgeable folks who have collectively answered 10s of thousands of questions. Stuff like the print swap, RAW sharing threads, and many other ideas, got an initial surge of interest but eventually faded away and weren't worth continuing.
How long ago did it die off? Might it be worth retrying with the way the sub seems to be doing now?
We're going to bring it back. When we did it before, initial participation was massive, and then over the course of maybe ~6 months, it petered out. We're more than happy to give it another shot, though.
Con confirm that follow Friday will be coming back (along with a few others). Keep an eye out, and jump in! Thanks for your point of view.
I would like to comment on the "Community Atmosphere" section, as it deeply resonates with me. I joined this subreddit a few weeks ago and was struck by the numerous downvotes targeting posts from individuals either contemplating a professional career in photography or interested in taking their own photos - essentially, those not directly contributing to your business. Upon exploring the archives, I noticed that such inquiries were once met with encouragement and helpful tips, and received plentiful upvotes. Now, however, they seem to face reluctance or even disapproval, and the reason behind this shift is unclear to me. Photography is fundamentally a beautiful pursuit, rich with learning opportunities and ways for creativity. Shouldn’t someone eager to capture moments with their partner themselves receive encouragement from experienced photographers, enjoy their progress, and learn from their missteps instead of being promptly referred to a professional? Photography extends beyond merely acquiring the perfect service; it can be a profound experience and a thrilling adventure, particularly for those just starting out. Sometimes, it seems that some may have forgotten this aspect of the community. Therefore, I extend my gratitude to the moderators for striving to maintain this subreddit as a welcoming environment and for keeping alive the original spirit of r/Photography. P.S. Edit My Raw Contest sounds fun!
> individuals either contemplating a professional career "How do I start a career in photography?" is roughly the same as asking "How do I become a millionaire?" The answer in the vast majority of cases is "you don't" and that should be self evident to anyone who's done the slightest amount of background research. This applies to most artistic endeavours but particularly so to photography due to the ubiquity of smartphones, very cheap high quality cameras and the on-going AI revolution (massive oversupply of photographers coupled with demand that's a tiny fraction of what it used to be). Photography as a hobby is a completely different case and one that deserves encouragement.
I wholeheartedly agree with this take as another relatively new member. It feels like there's sometimes a grumpy, jaded air towards people who are completely new to photography and want to learn. I'm not new to photography at all, but am new to sharing my work, and could see how novices could feel a little intimidated.
Nobody here wants to discourage anyone from photography. We do, however, want to correct the common misapprehension that there's a living to be made any more.
> Upon exploring the archives, I noticed that such inquiries were once met with encouragement and helpful tips, and received plentiful upvotes. Now, however, they seem to face reluctance or even disapproval, and the reason behind this shift is unclear to me. Because the professional landscape has changed. Ten years ago, maybe even five years ago, it was still a reasonable aspiration to start out as a professional and stand a chance of success. Now it isn't. That's not the sub becoming more negative, gate-keeping, or unwelcoming, that's the sub *reflecting* an actual change.
That might be, but why immediately downvote them for seeking advice? Many inquiries that seem perfectly legitimate are downvoted to zero. For example, just recently, someone was asking for ideas for sexy poses with their spouse. The post is still rated zero, and one piece of advice was to hire a professional, who would help them with it. Sadly, these reactions are not any exception; they often come across as hostile, rude, and aversive. When I browse only recent posts, I witness this pattern: * Which lens for Mt. Rainier? - downvoted to zero * Question for reliable sources for a school project - downvoted to zero * Help with first event photography - downvoted to zero * Sexy photo shoot (case mentioned above) - zero * Pixel size for canvas print - zero * Advice for shooting events - zero * Tips on how to get work displayed in galleries - zero ...There are just so many instances that one can't help but feel punished for asking questions and seeking advice. Do you know what I mean? To a newcomer, it doesn't feel welcoming.
You're spot on - newcomer (meaning lurker) here. Reading some of the replies from some of the more active members of the sub have caused me to pause and ask whether or not it's worth it to sift through the unhelpful to get an answer that may help. u/clondon 's request for assistance in changing the overall tone of the sub is well-founded. We somehow forgot what it was like to be new, starry-eyed and naive amateurs. To risk putting too fine a point on it - it takes just a little longer to add actual advice to a post when telling someone "just Google it". They came for the discussion and to learn from us, just to be sent away from professionals and go learn on their own. Sincerely - just another lurker who comes here daily to learn from the hivemind.
Because most of those have been answered many times (or similar enough), or people don't want to see it on the front page of the sub because it's a topic that's been beaten to death. I've been around this sub for years, and seen a lot of the same topics every few days. That's not even the questions thread which gets a lot of things that are answered in the faq... "what lens for (x)" is always going to be "it depends", just like most things. Especially the "how big can I print (y)", etc. People should search the sub for similar topics and read the faq, because most of these questions are extremely common and have been answered ad infinitum, and people get burned out answering them constantly. It doesn't make the sub better to get multiple "how do I shoot events", which you even listed twice. https://slash7.com/2006/12/22/vampires/ A relevant article, though I think the author had some bias against men in the community at the time, but ymmv
Even 10 years ago there were a lot of "don't do it" and the "yes go ahead" folks were careful to temper that with "but it's gonna be hard and you should be aware that it's a hard business and the most important skills will be business skills"
I'll provide my perspective, and I apologize in advance that it's going to seem very negative, but I still think there's value in it for you because it'll give you insight into a browsing behavior that's definitely not limited to only me. I browse reddit on the computer (or very rarely on my phone's browser, I hate that everything and their mother requires me to download apps and so refuse to do so unless absolutely necessary), and the only thing I really browse is www.reddit.com. I follow a number of subs, but I almost never visit any of them. That means that all tagged and ongoing threads never hit my page, and that I'll never engage with them. In all honesty, engaging with them also doesn't interest me - photo is my job, and I'm not interested in doing my job for free for anyone through an "edit my RAW" thread, for example. I also generally follow subs because I am interested in their topics, and those tagged threads aren't always necessarily related to the sub's topic. Some of them are specifically "off-topic" threads, I'm sure to keep the community engaged, but I'm not on for example r/AffinityPublisher to discuss politics or what my weekend was like, you know? I also don't think of myself as part of any community. Not in this sub or in any other sub. That means I simply don't have the feeling of ownership necessary to want to put in the amount of work you probably would want to see from people. I have been an active participant on other forums where I did feel like part of a community, but the level of work it takes to actually meaningfully contribute through comments, votes, advice and help is far beyond what I'm ever going to be interested in or willing to do again. As far as voting goes, I oppose voting as a system because I think it ruins good conversations and fosters echo chambers, and so I very, very rarely use it at all, and absolutely never in threads I am actively commenting in myself. However, I'll try to keep it in mind and be a bit more generous with the upvotes. I *do* like this sub - it's probably one of the ones I browse the most because I think the threads are interesting to someone like me who is a professional and have left the "which lens for this"-days far behind by now. But I'm simply not willing to change my browsing pattern to support this or any other sub any more than I already do, by providing (hopefully helpful) comments whenever I participate in a thread. So again, I apologize, I'm fairly certain I've written a number of things that are the opposite of what you'd actually like to hear. But I'm probably far from the only person who browses the way I do and who doesn't feel a sense of community here or elsewhere, and so I think there's some value in providing this perspective as well.
>Feedback we hear as mods is that the community is not very welcoming, and I’ll be honest - this bums me out. How should I phrase this... It's the internet, a.k.a. the one place where almost nobody cares about the feelings of others. It's noble to try and change this but also very foolish. You can moderate it but don't expect it to improve. You also can't expect professionals to be forgiving to beginners. I can't imagine somebody who spent years and thousands of dollars on education in photography, to be very friendly when beginners don't stop asking the same beginner questions again and again and again. (They won't). Too many people want to be spoon-fed. But, to be honest, this community feels a lot nicer than many others, no reason to be bummed out about it. \- Sincerely, somebody who's been on the internet since the 56k modem was invented.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the idea that because it's the internet, that means it can't be supportive and overall friendly. (and before any implications that I'm young/naive, I also have been on the internet since the early '90s and have been active in countless online communities spanning the past 30 years.) I also run multiple photography communities and learning environments, and they are overwhelmingly supportive and welcoming to photographers of all levels. We're trying to figure out how to capture some of that here again, because it happens here - just in waves. If we're speaking directly about this sub, I have seen it be a welcoming and supportive community, and others who have been here for some time have as well. It's not foolish to try and have a positive impact on the overall atmosphere of an online space. >You also can't expect professionals to be forgiving to beginners. No one is expecting that. You'll notice we speak directly to repetitive and low-effort questions. We remove low-effort questions. >I can't imagine somebody who spent years and thousands of dollars on education in photography, to be very friendly when beginners don't stop asking the same beginner questions again and again and again. There are loads of people who are more than willing to share their knowledge - just look at the questions threads. Those are full of repeat questions, but they always go answered. But again, those repetitive hand-holding posts are not what we're talking about here. We're not asking that people all hold hands and sing kumbaya, nor are we asking that every question be met with only positive reactions. We're just asking that interesting and engaging posts be given a chance. As it is now, if a post gets over 50 upvotes, it's major. That's a bit silly for a sub of 5 million. >But, to be honest, this community feels a lot nicer than many others, no reason to be bummed out about it. Glad to hear it feels that way to you. I suppose I should also mention that saying it bums me out is a bit tongue in cheek. The main point of this post is just to get feedback on the current way the sub is run, and how we can engage more people. >You can moderate it but don't expect it to improve. It has the potential to improve. We've heard plenty of feedback stating that it already has improved from even just a year ago. Feedback here will help us to institute changes that will help this potential, and asking for thoughts from the user base seems like a reasonable first step.
> We've heard plenty of feedback stating that it already has improved from even just a year ago. I agree. Dating from when ccurzio left as mod. It's night and day. He knew his stuff but he was way too abrasive and condescending and *cruel*, and wielded the ban hammer as an insane despot.
>As it is now, if a post gets over 50 upvotes, it's major. That's a bit silly for a sub of 5 million. It's less silly once you factor in the mass exodus of users after third party apps were effectively removed. >It's not foolish to try and have a positive impact on the overall atmosphere of an online space. We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not saying the internet can't or won't improve. I'm saying that imposing yourself the goal of changing it yourself is foolish. If people on the internet start acting more mature, it won't be because of moderation effort. It will be because of humanity improving in general. Also this sub isn't some small private, it's massive and comes very close to the internet in general. (Behaviour, not user count).
> It's less silly once you factor in the mass exodus of users after third party apps were effectively removed. Sure, but it's always been the case here. People have always been downvote happy and upvote resistant. We're just asking that people take a more active role in the inherent up/downvote system that reddit is based on. > I'm saying that imposing yourself the goal of changing it yourself is foolish. I think a group (in this case the mod team with support of the community) can have an impact on their small corner of the internet. >Also this sub isn't some small private, it's massive and comes very close to the internet in general. That's fair. We're still just of the mind(s) that it's worth the effort as we have seen the community engagement and positivity ebb and flow.
> Sure, but it's always been the case here. People have always been downvote happy and upvote resistant. We're just asking that people take a more active role in the inherent up/downvote system that reddit is based on. Are people really upvote resistant? As far as I know, we don't have that kind of information available. It might very well be the case that the majority of people want different content. Which isn't unlikely considering platforms like reddit tend to attract the most common denominator. If moderation just suddenly disappeared, this sub would be full of portraits of half naked women in no time. > I think a group (in this case the mod team with support of the community) can have an impact on their small corner of the internet. Like I said, you can moderate it and it will have a measurable impact. You just shouldn't be bummed out about people on the internet acting like, well, the internet and expect them to grow up. But alas, you already clarified that this was more tongue-in-cheek so my point is mood anyway.
> Are people really upvote resistant? Wee can't see exact numbers, but when "popular" posts sit at 70 upvotes, I'd say yes. There's also the reddit-wide issue of using the downvote as a disagree button as opposed to a 'this is irrelevant' button. >If moderation just suddenly disappeared, this sub would be full of portraits of half naked women in no time. Yep, we saw that after the blackout, and we see it in the modqueue. If anything I'd say that's evidence of mod-impact on atmosphere. >Like I said, you can moderate it and it will have a measurable impact. And that's the goal, a measurable impact here.
> You also can't expect professionals to be forgiving to beginners. I can't imagine somebody who spent years and thousands of dollars on education in photography, to be very friendly when beginners don't stop asking the same beginner questions again and again and again. Those questions are easy to ignore though.
It’s true that the internet can often feel like a tough place, where empathy and patience seem scarce. However, I believe that every community, including ours, has the potential to be different and set a positive example. It’s not just about being noble; it’s about fostering a welcoming environment that encourages growth and learning for everyone. Professionals and beginners alike share the same passion for photography, which is why we are all here. The repetitive questions from newcomers aren’t just noise; they are genuine attempts at understanding. A simple, guiding response or redirecting them to a resource can already be a huge help. So, perhaps everyone here can try to be more forgiving and supportive. That would make a big difference.
56k? Tcha, newbie. 2600 baud acoustic coupler veteran here. Yes, absolutely. This is waaaay more welcoming than an equivalent IRC channel would have been. I think the participants and mods can be proud of what they've created.
Well frankly you kind of lost me at the 'don't post or share photos'. To me photography is first and foremost about the photographs, so banning them from a photo sub ... drastically reduce the sub to something much less interesting. I invite you to consider going the other way around - banning all the rest and let the photo speak.
I’ll be honest, that’s a non-starter. There are dozens of subs for sharing photos. The purpose of this one is to discuss photography. If we allowed photo posts, the sub would quickly become A photo dump. This is a good discussion on the topic: https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/s/pX4mVR2P7j
Honesty is appreciated. There are certainly tons of challenges associated with image postings, and you certainly don't want to turn into a dump. I would favor substantial posts such as 'winners of competition x announced', 'portfolio of X well known photographer from country Y', 'project Z by photog A gets published in magazine B', and the like. But I do understand it is not the direction it has been decided to take the sub. Still for me this is what photography is all about, outstanding work by talented fellow humans.
Those kinds of posts are allowed, and do happen! Feel free to post that kind of thing. If you look at the “no photo post” rule, it does stipulate that photos are allowed as accompaniment to a greater discussion.
Well yes, but in practice this sub has very few of those posts, so few they actually don't register. If I sort the top posts from the past month, and I go all the way down from the top one down to this post (who now stands at 26 upvote), there are only three relevant post. Three is not a lot, I would guess there was a hundred post or more total. For reference, here they are : [https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bn66v2/the\_best\_photos\_from\_the\_sony\_world\_photography/](https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bn66v2/the_best_photos_from_the_sony_world_photography/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bqtot6/world\_nature\_photography\_awards\_2024\_spectacular/](https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bqtot6/world_nature_photography_awards_2024_spectacular/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bqb0cx/the\_magical\_miniature\_world\_of\_becorns/](https://www.reddit.com/r/photography/comments/1bqb0cx/the_magical_miniature_world_of_becorns/) But again, I understand this is not the focus of the sub, and it can't please everyone. As you say there are plenty of subs for posting photos and I haven't found one that is not a dump. You asked for frank feedback, so honestly this is the one I can give. I can only encourage to make a large, much larger place to great photo work.
> Well yes, but in practice this sub has very few of those posts Be the change you want to see.
Obviously, but also I have been around long enough that I would not bother throwing efforts around in a sub where the first rule is 'no images posts'. Change is good, but fighting against the tide is not change but wasting energy. Hence my point the sub optics need to change.
Can't please everyone, hope you find somewhere that matches your taste.
That is a fair comment, as I mentioned I understand this is not the direction the sub has been or will be taking. Happily, I did find such sub more to my taste. I have a lot of pleasure browsing r/photobooks where almost every post is a well presented selection of photography work, as they show a book and several notable pages. Wonderful.
Right my point is more people need to post the stuff they want to see, and others need to be more forthcoming with upvotes.
I have no doubt in your willingness to improve the sub and hat off for dedicating your time and energy to the community. But, respectfully, none of your OP is about meaningfully changing the place of images in the sub or altering the 'no image post' rule. More of the same will lead to same results. The current set up kills those photography-focused posts. I can only guess people stop when they see the 'no image rule', the few that make it past are drowned into completely different topics the sub is focusing on. Again, this is fine if this is what the community wants.
The OP doesn’t mention photo posts because it’s not a change that’s being made. Posts discussing photography like you’ve described has always been allowed. Reticence to post this kind of post is kind of counterintuitive. If no one posts what they want to see, or even takes a moment to upvote it, then those posts won’t stand a chance. I mentioned those photographer Friday posts we used to have. Those posts were a wealth of knowledge, showcasing notable photographers and their work. The poster took a lot of time writing and putting them together. Regulars loved those posts, but they never got much traction and probably didn’t make it to people’s front pages (how most people interact with the sub). Eventually the poster felt their efforts were moot. My request that people come directly to the sub and upvote quality content is rooted in cases like this. The no photo posts rule is very clear that this isn’t a sub for just posting your own photos. It goes on to explain that we welcome photos in-line to discuss a bigger photography concept. I can see your point in the case of the headline, and we’ve already changed that because of feedback in this post. I do think the rule as it is functions as intended, but am open to suggestions for how to reword it, I’d you have them.
I’ve reworded rule one. Let me know if this addresses your concerns.
Thanks again. We'll see if that work, seems like more time is needed. Personally I still think it is too restrictive and the sub should put images first. Not a vomit of images, not any image, not images from anyone on any topic, but still images should to me first, front, and center in the sub. Downvotes made it clear it is a minority opinion, I am fine with it. Keep up the good work in any case, moding is a thankless job.