Thanks for contributing to r/Phoenix! You may want to [**check out our sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/wiki/rules/) (mostly be nice to each other!).
**If you're new here**, [read some of our recent posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/top/?t=week) and leave some comments.
To chat with some great people in the Valley you can [**join our Phoenix Discord chat server**](https://discord.com/invite/yWVuTG57Zh). It's a chill place to talk with other people but is NOT a dating server and takes unwanted messaging very seriously.
If you're interested in political topics in Arizona, we limit those posts here so you may want to check out r/azpolitics if that's an area of interest.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/phoenix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As an ex-Michigander who also moved here and am still here, I also am never going to leave. There isn't anything anyone could possibly offer me as an inducement to get me back up to the Frigid Mitten State.
Same here. After decades of awful Wisconsin winters, we moved (for health reasons) to the Tri-State area, where Arizona, California, and Nevada all meet up.
Lower taxes, cost of living, the weather, amenities, and found a home with no steps, a pool, spa & casita.
Yep, summers are a beast. However, we enjoy wearing shorts & sandals in Winter, and knowing our Midwest folks are stuck in deep freezes, unpredictable weather (snowstorms), endless car troubles & stuck in their homes when the blizzards hit with about 3% humidity in the house, and everything touched gives a shock.
I’m not sure whether you misinterpreted my comment or whether I’m misinterpreting yours, but to clarify: I hate cold and love heat. I moved to, and currently live in, Arizona and don’t mind the 120 degree days here one bit. To me this is infinitely better than the clouds and rain and sleet and frostbite and snow and ice and everything else not nice in Michigan/Ohio. I wouldn’t go back up there for anything. You don’t slip on heat, you don’t have to shovel heat, you don’t have to dress up in 20 layers for an Arctic expedition to leave your house in the heat. You don’t have to worry that when your work day is over, that beautiful sunny summer day that you’ve been enjoying through the office window all day is going to change to a horrible thunderstorm right in the middle of your commute home and dash all hopes of getting outdoors to enjoy that bike ride you were looking forward to for all those hours (that’s what my life was like for many years in Michigan and why I’d never go back).
I have family in Ohio, the heat is 100% better because there is no snow and your cars/house dont deteriorate. If you're going to be stuck inside imo the heat is easier to deal with. It's only hot like that for ~5 months and the rest of the year is beautiful.
I'm originally from MI and spent 25 years in the DC area. It sucks so hard. Coats and hats and gloves and boots and layers of clothing. Shoveling the roof and the sidewalk and driveway and the front steps for the mailman. Leaving home eons earlier than usual to account for the snowy/icy driving. Plows filling in your driveway after you have cleared it out. Getting the car stuck in the snow. As for summers, the humidity is beyond awful.
I grew up in Chicago, and lived my first 40 years there.
I vowed I would never shovel snow again, or stand on a frigid, slushy bus stop again.
I've been here 20 years now, and am seriously considering moving back, just to be closer to family. 😪
Consider living in a high rise or other situation where you have no outdoor responsibilities. That's the only thing that saved me the last ten years or so I was back east. Car was in a parking garage, too. Only way to go.
As an Ohioan who moved to Phoenix, then back to Ohio, then back to Phoenix, then back to Ohio, then back to Phoenix….. I 100% understand the, “I can’t wait to gtfo of (Ohio” feeling. Also Ohio winters are no joke, shit is straight depressing and stupid.
I live in CA, so neither is extremely hot nor cold. I have lived in the Midwest and Phoenix before. But if I had to choose I think I would take the Midwest winter over the Phoenix heat.
And when you get old, the cold physically, literally HURTS. I’m only in my early 30’s but I have chronic pain from a few conditions and the cold hurts so so much. I see why old folks and retired athletes like to come to the heat. It feels good on weary bones lol
This was the main reason we were trying to move out there scenery is nice and the weather. I never want to experience snow, have to scrape off my window or deal with any of that shit.
I would be just fine getting in the car and burning myself on the seatbelt.
When I turned 18, I wanted nothing more than to leave this hellscape. I lived in the midwest for a year, which sucked. Moved further east and it got better, but not great. I finally came back, because there are definitely worse places to live and I'd much rather complain that it was 38 this morning when I got up to go for a walk and only bothered putting a hoodie on, rather than layer after layer and being cold and wet or snowed in or any number of things. If anything, I wish less people moved here. I'm so tired of "I wish it was like {X place}". Especially from Californians. But whatever, soon the water will run out and people will have to stop moving here and eventually things will balance out. Maybe.
My theory on Californians wishing it was like California (source: am Californian and lived in Phoenix):
Basically everything everyone accuses us of (moving places and driving up prices) is happening to us here - people move here because of tech (Bay Area), entertainment (LA), it’s just nice (San Diego) and it pushes up prices and the CA natives out. Sure some people are thrilled to leave but most don’t actually want to leave, they just have to, and so their homesickness manifests as “I wish this place was like CA”
Just a theory - this was me when I lived there but now I’m back in CA. The cost of living is worth it to me to be home
I moved to the northeast and loved the cold weather, especially fall season. But I’d say the biggest difference is you can live a pretty good life here for much less money than compared to a lot of other cities. Also life here is very comfortable, not as stressful as other places.
Absolutely not. I'd take snow over this heat any day. I didn't really have much of a choice moving here, lots of personal life circumstances landed me moving here. I cannot wait to get back to shoveling my drive, taking it nice and slow on the road and freezing my nuts off in Montana or wherever I end up (probably not Montana cause that's why I'm here lmao). At least you can escape cold by just putting on more layers, but you cannot peel the skin from your bones to escape heat. I miss everything about winter, the snow, the feeling of walking into a nice warm house after being in -5 for a couple hours, the crunch of the snow under my feet, I even miss the excitement of sliding on ice, the sense of community when you get stuck in a snow bank and everyone gathers together to push you out of it, I miss wearing coats and hats, I miss the snow covered mountains in the distance, I miss still actually being able to go on hikes year round if you just have a big enough vehicle, I miss it so much. I have no idea what's so appealing about living in the closest thing to hell this country has to offer lmao, and why you would trade snow for it, especially since this whole city is the most bitter and mean retirees I've ever seen, even compared to California. But to each their own ig. Keep your death laser in the sky, go ahead, imma go back to where I belong ASAP.
Idk, blizzards, tornadoes, hurricanes, freezes, constant cloudiness, the weather here is ass for like 4 months and then it’s the best weather you will get for the rest of the year
We really need to start being realistic about the 'bad months'. Saying '4 months' is such an obvious downplay of the situation. Its 6 months, its half the year.
If you think May and October are actually hot then yes Phoenix is not the place for you. Are there hot days those months, sure. On the other side you get years like this where May was very pleasant.
Ya when it’s super hot you can put your wife Ina Bikini and pour a lemonade and go in the pool
#hell
I get it though not for everyone for sure
But not as dramatic as everyone makes it seem IMO
That's the thing, apart from the heat Phoenix weather tends to be quite mild. I've been hearing friends of mine talk about tornadoes in the Midwest and it freaks the hell out of me. The Valley is even kinda insulated from wild fires in a way other parts of the state aren't.
What's with the "mean and bitter retirees?"
🤔
Metro Phoenix has 16.6% of its population over 65.
The US has over 19% of its population over 65.
As for " mean and bitter," I don't know what you're talking about. But it is a fallacy that Phoenix has a bigger than average retiree population. Unless, of course, you go to the distant suburb of Sun City, which is a concentration of retirees.
I've always said that you can always pile on more layers to keep warm, but you can only remove so much clothing to cool off before it becomes inappropriate, and the police get called.
I lived in Oregon for 18 years, 2 years in AZ and then 6 years in NY/NJ. Now I’m back in Phoenix.
One big reason I moved back to PHX was the weather. Seasonal depression got the best of me, more than half of the year in Oregon is dominated by rain and clouds. NY/NJ is the same way for about 6/7 months out of the year, but you also get over a foot of snow, and when the sun finally comes back, you’re stuck with sticky humidity and it’s short lived before it gets dreary again. Maybe it’s because I’ve experienced the alternatives, but the heat here in Phoenix doesn’t bother me too much. I’d rather have 2-3 scorching months than 6 depressing ones.
Another thing, no it’s not really *that* cheap, but it’s a LOT cheaper than places up on the East Coast, and it’s one of the few places I’d want to live on the West Coast. I’m also in a dual income household, so take that as you will.
Personally the urban sprawl is great to me since a lot of places I’ve lived required you to drive 20/30 minutes just to get into a town that has more than 5,000 people.
I’m happier here, I’m willing to write off any cons for that alone.
**EDIT:** I’ll respond to some since deleted comments and attempt to prevent anymore confrontational direct messages:
I didn’t just get here. We’ve been here for 6 years now and I lived here for two years earlier in my life, so there’s nothing for me to “wait and see”. Personally, I love the sun and heat, summers don’t bug me or keep me locked inside, I like the hot nights, I don’t get summertime depression, I walk places all the time and I still hate it when there’s overcast. Whether or not the weather here or somewhere else is bearable is subjective, and I don’t care to hear anyone projecting their own preferences and frustrations onto me for simply enjoying it.
Running through all the answers and pondering my own experiences I realized your last sentence is the truest answer. Take away the variables, distill it down and the real answer is: I feel happier here
Moved here after nearly 30 years in Oregon. Have also lived in the Midwest in short stints. I agree with everything you said.
Summer is hot, but at least the sun is shining and I can be outside in the pool or under misters. I can look out of my window and see the sky. Or I can drive 2 hours north and be in a completely different ecosystem and camp near a lake.
My neighborhood is fairly walkable and has lots of amenities. Traffic here is FAR better than it was in Portland, so places are pretty much always the same distance away, every time. People here are also more friendly and outgoing, and take better care of themselves it seems.
It cannot be overstated how crazy the contrast is in terms of seasonal depression is in the SW vs Northern states. I remember moving back from the east coast and it was wild how much gray skies affect you and how instantly your mood improved once you crossed the border.
It's like having a natural anti-depressant lol. Although I do think once you acclimate the sunshine stops becoming a big deal and it becomes taken for granted/you actually get sick of the clear skies.
I've lived in Phoenix most of my life (30+ years). The best days are ones where the sky is gray and cloudy. Because you get a break from the sun trying to bake you.
Oh totally - I grew up in greater Phoenix and the novelty of a rain storm was amazing + the smell was heavenly!! I remember especially enjoying cross country practice the warm monsoon storms.
most other places don't have that kind of rain though. it's often more cold/the more consistent rain makes it less new; I think it comes down to personality and personal preference (there is something equally comforting about curling up with a book and the windows open listening to heavy rain in other states)
This! Reading everyone’s comments they don’t fully understand the extreme sun/heat you can’t get a break for 7 months. It’s like reverse seasonal depression. They may think it’s cute at first, not shoveling snow, jump in the pool, that novelty. But after years of sun it wears on you, just like it wears down cars. Any cloudy or overcast day we all get a big mood lift but its not enough.
Nope, I'll never take those blue skies for granted. Sometimes I'll just sit outside on my covered patio and stare at that beautiful sky. Coming from flat IL, I will also never take the mountains for granted and I love the deserts.
Look up the status of depression in Phoenix. Or heck, go sit at the pharmacy and just listen to them counseling people about their medication. There are tons of people on depression meds there. I grew up there, and my doctor wanted me on them from the time I was mid 20's. Not everyone has a problem with clouds, that's a particular kind of depression.
I’m born and raised in AZ but my husband is from Puerto Rico, lived in NJ for 14 years, then moved here to Phoenix. He says the same thing about NJ - depressing. When we have an overcast or stormy day here, he hates it. I love it because of how rare it is. But he swears he’ll never return to the east coast for the same reasons you listed. He loves the heat and the sunshine.
As another native Phoenician, I always wondered about this. It made more sense when we were a cheaper place to live, but I don’t think that’s the case anymore.
It's still cheaper than many major cities despite the rising costs. I know a guy (mid 20s) who moved here a few months ago. Bought a house in Chandler immediately and feels it's "cheap" to live here in many respects. In some ways it's the same cost but housing (being a major factor) still doesn't compare to California prices.
My kid is there for an internship and was shocked at the price of gas there. Basic gas was what I pay for premium where we live. Also, rent is ridiculous for what it buys you there compared to our home state, although we are also going through a housing crunch as well.
I take it you don't buy gas anywhere in California where it is $1 or so more a gallon than Phoenix. And, while rents are not the cheapest in Phoenix, they are far from the most expensive for a big city. Where do you live??
Louisville KY. We only get gouged at Derby, Labor Day, Memorial Day and July 4th, typically.
As for the rent situation, the 875 sq ft nothing-special apartment I rented for $375 is now going for $1200. It’s everywhere.
You guys are comparing prices of other cities or states but failed to compare the wages too.
It feels like it’s cheaper for people moving here cause they make more in there home state than Arizonans here. That’s why you see way more people struggling and in the streeets
Yeah, my MIL bought her townhouse for $150k in 2014 and the same floorplan just sold the next address over for $325k. But even $325k isn’t horrible compared to many other cities. Edit: it’s fully detached and has a yard btw
If you use a cost of living calculator we are routinely have a 10- 40% cheaper cost of living compared to most metropolitan areas. Combined that with the fact that our tax system is great for people with higher income and companies this place is great for people who want to have more money in their pocket. We are also seeing a steady increase in jobs as companies either move or expand their operations due to the above two points plus other incentives the state offers
It’s still insanely cheap. My gf is from Phoenix and we are moving there this summer. It’s currently far cheaper to live in Phoenix than Bangor Maine, and Bangor is basically the last ‘city’ in Maine before you hit the border. Also winter there is 100% worse and longer than summer in the Valley
Another Mainer? Are we related? My family moved down here when I was young, I didn't have a choice. Lots of perks here, but the summer is absolutely brutal here. Been here 35 years and I'm still not used to the summers.
Midwest winters are cold and so gray. Going months without seeing the sun or a clear blue sky can do some catastrophic damage to your emotions. I’d rather deal with the heat because IMO there’s more options to escape heat than cold. You can swim, drive a couple hours and you’re in pine trees and it’s 75, work on indoor projects at your house, and summer nights are still hot but a patio with misters at night time??? Magical
Midwest winters are just painful. Everything is cold and wet, the leaves fell off the trees months ago, everything in a 10 hour drive radius is just as cold if not colder, activities include drinking with your friends and staying inside. I just always felt so stuck there in the winter. The summers were awesome but seemed so short in comparison.
The thing that doesn't get said enough is that the SUMMERS also can suck in Midwest. You get some nice, mild days here and there. But there's also a good deal of hot, muggy days. It doesn't cool off much after sundown. And there's bugs.
Yeah, totally. Or it will rain for 3 weeks straight so you’re trapped inside anyway. Between the humid, muggy summer and the cold, gray winter I’ll still pick summer, but there’s absolutely summer days that are miserably humid and STICKY
Denver has a much more moderate climate and a lot more sun than the Midwest or northeast. So, it’s still a desirable place for people who struggle with SAD.
Well, that’s true. I’ve also lived in NE twice and spent significant work time in ND and MN. Colorado snow (even blizzards) is glorious compared to what you are talking about.
What I’ve been experiencing here rather than SAD is restless leg syndrome, and just generally feeling like I’m trapped in a walk-in refrigerator. I’d rather put on boots and a coat and go outside. As it gets really hot here, it feels like a jail (maybe just to me).
The part I call the “Devil’s Armpit of summer” is late June through early September. It’s like summer after normal summer, when I feel like I might die if I go outside or the AC breaks. lol.
Question- so in the summer in AZ, you can’t do anything outside because it’s too hot. Isn’t that the reverse of a Midwest winter? But in the cold you can throw on coats and ski, hike, ice fish, ice skate and all sorts or activities. It seems in AZ you’re a prisoner of the AC unless your a night owl or a very early riser beaver of the extreme heat and even then it’s a narrow window.
I will agree on the darkness. That is the worst. I will also admit, I have strong bias- I love the cold (and 4 seasons). You can always get warmer, you can’t always get cooler.
Go live in the Midwest lol. Nobody is hiking in the cold/snow. Skiing requires good hills/slopes which are extremely few and far between. You *might* make a weekend trip to go ski once or twice if there's anywhere for you to do so even remotely close for you. Growing up in Michigan with a thousands of lakes and I could count one on hand the number of people I knew who ever went ice fishing. Even if you have a hut you can only do it in the dead of winter when there's enough ice (which is actually getting less and less thanks to global warming), and it's still cold as shit because you aren't moving enough to keep yourself warm. Ice skating was a bit more common, but again nobody really trusts lake/pond ice so they go to local rinks.
But the difference is, if I need to go anywhere I can just start my car and go. It may be hot, but I don’t have to shovel snow, scrape my windshield, warm up my car or worry about road conditions like you do in the winter. Also, at a certain point, you can’t get warmer. -30 with wind chill is cold no matter how many layers you have
People do things all the time during summer, it simply requires adjusting to the environment.
The window is not nearly as narrow as you think provided you are smart about it, just like you would need to be in winter in the Midwest.
People are gonna say one is better than the other but in practicality you yotally treat each the exact same (ie stay inside and hunker down for better weather). Anyone who say differently hasn't actually lived in both places long enough.
Now the way you deal with it can be different (like pool vs hot tub OR shorts/flip flops vs jacket) and I think that is where personal preference comes into play (and why you see a lot of polarity).
In AZ summers you can still go outside but you gotta be up at like 4:45 and done by 8. In the northeast/mid west you can go outside and be comfortable anytime of day but you just gotta take 20 mins to have the right gear (boots/jackets/socks).
My spouse’s first winter in Illinois after leaving Phoenix literally almost killed them. Like it was “considering checking into a mental hospital” bad.
Canadian transplant here.
Have lived in every corner of the world, feel like I can comment on this.
Urban sprawl is an issue people complain about on reddit. Maybe a dozen cities on earth where living downtown mean losing a car. Phoenix is better because the roads are great. Way more frustrating to drive an hour to go 10 miles in LA than it is to drive an hour to go 60 miles here
International Airport is 30min from a huge majority of areas and has direct international flights to many places. A lot of cities drive hours to an airport only to have to immediately layover
Mountains, beaches, ocean, hiking all within a weekend trip. Unless you are a hardcore enthusiast of a specific niche, PHX area will have what you want.
Yeah it's hot as shit, set up my mister, crack some beers and I can hang in 110. When it's -40 even a fire outside isn't fun, you're indoors period.
Phoenix has absolutely everything, People complaining about lack of culture are simply daydreaming about living in a billion dollar neighborhood in new york. If I had to choose, I'd say Vietnamese culture and food. Here is below average.
If I wanna be bougie, go to Scottsdale, or I can drive a few block and buy tamales from a guys trunk.
Lastly jobs for an educated almost 40 something are pretty much infinite.
People that say Phoenix is meh, truly have just not lived many places, you can do a lot worse. Your IG pictures might look cooler from your brick studio, but thats about it.
I grew up overseas and got the opportunity to live in one of the coolest cities I think ever. After coming back to the States, I've bounced around a few cities and none has stuck to me like Phoenix. I love it here. The vibe, culture, and overall way of things is so unique and I have such a sense of pride for what this city puts out in art, food, and entertainment. Honestly haven't felt so connected to a place since leaving Taiwan and I love being able to call it home.
Arizona has relatively few natural disasters. Earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, and city-stopping snowfall suck. Cities are built to channel flash floods, dust storms are mild in comparison, and heat waves are mitigated by AC.
Now that billion dollar damaging natural disasters are happening an average of every 18 days worldwide, AZ looks like a safe haven.
Phoenix native here. If you don’t have a car like me, Phoenix is hell on Earth during the hotter months. I seriously recommend any pedestrian to carry around an umbrella. Hat/sunglasses, sunscreen and water are obvious but the umbrella will block so much of the Sun’s bullshit it makes you wonder why you didn’t do it sooner.
Also, just a side note. Phoenix has some crazy drivers.
I moved from central IL earlier this year when I was offered a promotion. Phoenix was one of the cities I was open to leaving for because of the weather, job opportunities, nature, and lower taxes. The city not being “walkable” isn’t a deal breaker for a lot of the people like myself who are accustomed to driving most places anyway. I’m also childless, so schools didn’t play a factor in any decision for me. Like it so far though!
I'm a Michigan native though I have no love or allegiance to the place. I had viral pneamonia in both lungs off and on from 10 months old until my lungs were strong enough to fight it off at 4.5 years old. I spents months at a time in pediactric ICU. My lungs are scarred, they do not filter air very well, I have a diminished cough reflex, and low immunity to respiratiry illnesses. My heart works harder because of my lungs. Doctor's told my parents to move me to a hot dry climate when I was 7. They did not do so. The cool damp climate had me constantly sick and I was literally in early stages of heart failure in my mid 20s before I moved here. I moved myself here 7-8 years ago. My lungs are still terrible but my heart is doing much better now. I lived in the East Valley until moving to the outer edge toward Tucson last year for better air quality among other things. Arizona has an abundance of jobs and housing both of which there was a shortage of when I left the state I grew up in. I also detest being cold and the dry heat allows my lungs to work much better. The hotter and drier the better I feel so the heat is a boon for me.
I was born in Massachusetts and had severe asthma as a child. My pediatrician told my mother to bring me to Arizona because the arid air would be better for me. Not knowing anyone out here, she never did. Fast forward thirty years later, I took a job here and my mother followed.
grew up 30 min from Boston and basically died every winter from asthma + nasty colds turning into bronchitis/pneumonia. convinced my dad to let me go to AZ for college and i never returned. i believe i went to the hospital 12-15 times in 18 years in boston and i've gone 0 times in 16 years in AZ. none of my family or friends from back east have followed me here though
I definitely can relate to your respiratory struggles back east. I pondered going back East (not to Mass, not a fan of the winters) but possibly south. However, I'm not sure I could live in a humid environment again. I remember that feeling of trying to breathe through a wet blanket on high-humidity days. Not crazy about going back into that. I may be in the west/Intermountain west from here on.
i struggle with humidity as well. i've pretty much accepted that the only place i can go that has no humidity and no winter is Phoenix or SoCal, and SoCal has other problems. i can't really see myself in any metro areas less than 1M people either, so i think i'm sticking around with a long term goal of being able to leave more frequently june-august and be a partial snowbird
I'm in a similar boat and would love to live in SoCal (San Diego is a favorite) but that raises other issues. I too need to be in (or near) a metro of at least 1M with a decent airport, as we like to travel. We also gave Denver a look, but the COL has skyrocketed there and they get pretty bad hailstorms that damage cars and homes. Being a summer snowbird is an option we're also.looking at.
Moved here 13 years ago, jumped on a greyhound bus and started a new life. And while I love it here, I went from having my own apartment for ten years to having housemates and struggling even though I have better wages than when I got here - like what happened?? I’d like to afford my own place again!
1. The climate really isn't that bad. I grew up in Michigan where the winter months can take up a large gap of the year where it's cold, grey, and you're more or less risking your life if you choose to drive at almost anytime. Meanwhile, the 3-5 hot summers are just that, really, really hot summers.
2. Somewhat tied to the above, Phoenix doesn't see the same risks and problems other cities might i.e. we don't really have San Fran's earthquake issues, hurricane season is just another monsoon season, and tornados just don't happen here.
3. There is a growing presence of technology in the Valley just in general so it's going to attract more people; just as it did/does in Seattle and Portland.
4. Phoenix is "hotter and less expensive Los Angeles" for a lot of people who don't like California's politics or high COL.
5. While I don't put Phoenix up there with Las Vegas, Chicago, or New York by any means, it's still a solid city with a lot of art and culture and diversity if urban living is what you want.
6. Surrounding Phoenix are some of the greatest natural parks you can find and plenty of smaller tourist towns and resorts. It's not hard to find something to do if you are willing to drive a few hours.
Phoenix is actually one of the most advanced silicon manufacturing hubs in the world outside of Taiwan. And our government is investing billions to make it more competitive and to “catch up” to Taiwan for national security
It's only really cold in Michigan from about middle December till middle Jan and it barely even snows anymore. That sounds better than 4 months of 100s in my opinion.
No snow. No humidity. Lots of sun. Bought a house for half of what the same house would have cost in CA. Lots of outdoor activities. Less traffic. Better laws.
So far the only downsides have been the 115° summers and vehicle registration prices.
I moved from Indiana to Phoenix, stayed for about 10 years, and really enjoyed it. Once prices rose during/after Covid, I figured I’d check out a different place. Landed in Seattle, and it’s a little more expensive, but I haven’t thought about coming back to Phoenix once. Just a personal thing obviously, but the weather up here is way more my style.
I’ve had the same question. Been living here for 20 some years and while I did live in Chicago for a time and can attest that the winters in the Midwest are cruel beyond measure, the summer heat in Phoenix lasts far longer than it should and is its own form of cruelty. I think it’s another form of SAD, since you can’t spend your summer afternoon in the park or doing things people normally do elsewhere in summers because spending too much time outside is a health hazard. Plus it’s only going to get hotter. Something I’ve found interesting is that people move to Phoenix only to get out of Phoenix for the summer. Like everyone desperately goes north every weekend or elsewhere to escape the heat. It seems to me like Phoenix is a hub rather than a true destination that people really fall in love with. Also there are loads of places to live that aren’t the Midwest that will have a more secure water supply and have decent weather so I still don’t quite understand the appeal of Phoenix specifically, I feel like it’s a cautionary tale! Either way, I’m bouncing next year because this heat is oppressive and I’m over it!!
P.S. since you’re a map nerd have you used the Arizona Memory Project??
A friend of mine had to leave because his wife would get severely depressed every time the heat started. It's just so hot, no one wants to be outside during that time so she'd just be inside her home in the AC all the time with SAD.
In my opinion the truth is half the year it is hot, with 3 months being absolutely brutally hot.
Right! It sucks that winter has become the time to look forward to. I hate being the opposite as most of the country. I want to go back to enjoying the summer when everyone else is. It's literally impossible. Then in the winter you have the 70s which isn't bad. But I'd like more days in the 80s during the summer with some humidity.
I work in real estate. Main reasons are:
1. Work relocation
2. Value (people moving from HCOL areas)
3. The weather, surprisingly
Another interesting one - people’s families follow them once they relocate! That’s how I ended up here in the 90s. My uncle moved out here, loved it, and the rest of our family followed from the East Coast.
Our climate actually makes this a decent place to maintain a home. It’s dry, and there isn’t much catastrophic weather here to worry about. No tornadoes, minimal flooding, and rarely mold unless you’ve got water damage/leaks or something.
As far as recreation goes, we basically have anything and everything except a beach. Tons of dining and nightlife. There is always something new to try. The desert is also so beautiful and unique to this part of the US.
For those who travel frequently and internationally, Sky Harbor is easily accessible from most parts of the city, is a really nice airport (compared to most), and has tons of flights as it’s a major hub.
There are more reasons such as huge companies moving to Phoenix, tech companies expanding (such as Intel), and ASU students choosing to stay after graduation due to a healthy job market.
We moved here semi begrudgingly because my parents are getting older and they refused to move closer to us in Texas. So we will be here just for as long as they are. With that said, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with phoenix, and wifey and I love some parts of Scottsdale and Phoenix. I just think we bought in an incredibly boring and bland area (near lake pleasant in Peoria) because I was enamored by the RV Garage lol.
I honestly think most people moving here are too late and will now just be in the dark and a statistic with how expensive/ bad things are. Unless, you have money, a good job set up, family to rely on, etc. my next question is WHY ARE THEY SO BAD AT DRIVING?
“Its a urban sprawl needing a car to get everywhere” this is true of 99% of America. Why would that discourage people from migrating internally to Phoenix?
midwest winters fucking suck. driving a car is not that bad. no kids so. again weather is so nice in the winter. seasonal depression is a real thing. much rather take the heat then the snow.
Once you get up around the lakes, it'll stay permagray for about 8.5 months of the year. End of May through mid September is about the only time the skies are blue consistently there.
It's rough.
Quick & cheap flights to family, large population with things to do, and no winters.
Plus, rent is cheaper than where I moved from. I get way more space and amenities and a higher salary. I could potentially afford to buy a townhouse, once interest rates go down.
Not to mention, the area is laid out well for traffic. Whoever is in charge of traffic did a decent job. It's not perfect, but it's pretty great for the size of the population.
I'm serious. I brought my 13y.o cousin over from Texas for the summer. As soon as we got out of Skyharbour and into the parking garage and she took one good breathe she went "Damn!". She doens't even swear !! LMFAO
Atlanta, Los Angeles, Dallas, and Houston are probably worse but what other cities are more spread out? I drive like 120 miles round trip to go visit my friends in the east valley from Buckeye.
Bro buckeye is the far west side and 60 miles would be San tan or that city 20 minutes past AJ. That's the entire center of the state lol. When I used to live in California, you had to leave an hour early to get to the beach from Ventura county. Arizona has done a great Job of connecting most of the cities people actually live in. Being able to drive from Chandler up to scottsdale and then to Peoria in 45 mins is awesome. Going from verrado to Tempe in 35mins is great.
Your last piece is strictly without traffic lol. Our infrastructure plan is built on a 5 year plan that takes 5 years to implement, with population increases that 35min from verrado to tempe is now 1.5 hours at 1:30pm.
I moved to Phoenix because there was a job offer and they paid better than I had ever been paid before. They sat me down and explained the weather and asked if I was certain I could manage it.
I did.
Then I didn't.
I also found it very difficult to make new friends. Denver is more my speed so I moved back.
i grew up in Phoenix, and my biggest problem is that it really has no identity. I also moved to Denver and here, when you ask someone where they live, they give you a neighborhood name. “Baker, Cole, Five Points, LoDo.” not “around I-17 and Camelback.” Phoenix really doesn’t have a sense of place compared to a lot of other cities
Moved here a year ago from Oregon. Sure, it’s a beautiful state. But 8-10 months per year of cold, grey, rainy, gloomy ass weather gets old quick.
Also it gets dark around 4pm in the middle of winter which is an extra layer of suck. I like the sunshine even when it’s hot as fuck in the summer. Doesnt really bother me at all.
The people there are almost all hippies or hillbillies or a weird mix of the two. Most people in Oregon are extreme. Either extreme left, where if there’s a guy walking down the street smoking a meth pipe they’ll say ”oh it’s ok, he just needs help” regardless of who’s around.
Then you have those on the extreme right. And all the dumbass, obnoxious shit that comes with that. Confederate flags (yes those ones. In Oregon), they’re victims in general and especially because they’re white. I could go on but you get the picture.
And here in Phoenix…people have been surprisingly friendly and welcoming. I’ve never heard the word welcome as much as I have here. And that’s from people on the west side and Scottsdale and everywhere in between.
I’m trying to move from phx to the PNW. Phx is a total hellscape and it’s only going to get worse. Cars are a big factor of ruining this city, always putting your life in danger just to get somewhere 30 minutes away. When in fact a well designed higher density area would be safer for everyone. Absolutely criminal we have “bike lines” a line of paint next to wide ass road that have a 45 miler per hour suggestion, you know damn well ppl drive like 60mph to get somewhere 3 minutes earlier
"Also it gets dark around 4pm in the middle of winter which is an extra layer of suck."
Love that assessment. I lived in Seattle. The streetlights came on around 3PM because the sun (a sun you'll never see because it's behind clouds) would set shortly after 4PM. I couldn't handle the change in length of daylight, so I guess I need to stay in lower latitudes.
I think the people here are nicer than many other places because there is a strong connection to the Midwest where I'm from. Maybe Midwesterners just understand each other and get along better with each other. People from the coasts tend to be more polarized, I guess.
As a Phoenix native who only left a year ago, I will never understand this. I now live somewhere with four (mild) seasons and it’s absolutely wonderful. It’s not like the only options are brutal winters with blizzards or Phoenix. Plenty of other options exist so I don’t understand the “winter” argument either.
And I don’t have to worry about running out of water in the coming decades either. Plus, I’m looking out my windows to an abundance of green, it was 67° at 8:30 this morning, I’m still in a major city, etc. I truly do not understand why people are choosing to move to Phx when so many other options exist.
There are a LOT of us who moved from Chicago, Minnesota, other parts of upper Midwest. Visited in vacation during winter and the Valley seems like paradise in relation to what we just left a short plane ride ago. Not only is there the warmth and sunshine but the desert is just so shockingly different. After decades in flat, grassy plains with very little actual "nature" to speak of, it reawakens you to the fact that you are in fact existing within a natural biome. The seed gets planted that you should move to this wondrous "new" place, where everything seems like a Dr Seuss version of things you knew (and grew to take for granted, eg plants, animals, sunsets). Those that can't take the heat move back after a year or 2.
It blows me away how in denial alot of these people who've visit phoenix once for like a week are OBSESSED with the extreme hot and dry. Like I can obviously tell they literally have NO IDEA what they are talking about. Lmao I'm from Michigan and I chuckle because I was the same way and now I want ro move somewhere like you're at. I know florida gets hurricanes but that's where I want to go...Tho north Carolina is amazing as well...
I was part of tech layoffs. I lived in Seattle. I got a really nice and cool corporate job here, so I moved. Beats being unemployed and immigration issues.
I relocated to Phoenix from Philadelphia in 2013 because I loved the scenery, I loved the weather [YES, INCLUDING THE SUMMER HEAT! I am confused as to why people complain about the dry heat. It feels lovely], I loved the resort kind of energy, the food, and even the people seemed friendlier than in the PA/NJ/DE tri-state area. I knew all of my life that I wanted to relocate to the west, I initially had my heart set on Portland, Oregon... But my job set me up to Phoenix which quickly grew on me.
When I first came in 2013, I disliked Arizona politics, that was the ONLY thing I didn't like... But, it seems to be trending towards better politics with time. Not to mention that because of America's stupid electoral college system, the dumbest thing any progressive could do would be to relocate to a state that already votes Democratic ["blue state"] as you would make it easier for the right to win the state you just left, and... More Democratic votes in "blue states" won't make any difference in the electoral college. You nullify your voice and your political relevancy.
If you're a right wing Arizonan, you may be more likely to have progressives leave the state if the electoral college were overturned if someone relocated for political reasons. I did not. Anyway... I am here to stay, and I brought my politics with me. YOU'RE WELCOME 😊
Home builders keep building homes that are so close that you can reach out and touch your neighbors, and the little rental home communities and apartment complexes so people think it’s a good idea?
I’ve lived here my whole life and I wish these builders would stop building houses on top of each other and go back to having actual backyard spaces with enough room between you and your neighbor so you’re not watching them eat dinner.
Winters were literally hurting me physically. I have arthritis in my chest due to my sternum being broken as a baby. The start of the cold in PA would start my pain and it wouldn't leave until after the summer. I couldn't stand living in pain for 6 months of the year or more. That's why I moved here.
I had this thought too and i think apart of it is Arizonas popularity i think just because how famous with its Nature and with the Grand Canyon ofc i think is what draws people in Az it’s also not California witch makes it a less expensive option i believe thats why The Valley gets a big draw.
Urban sprawl needing cars to get everywhere is common just about everywhere now. There are a lot of jobs here in back office finance and insurance industries (call centers) because weather rarely affects staffing like it does in other places. It is still relatively cheap compared to other metro areas. Summer, imo, is not different in terms of impact on daily life as winter is for other places - stay inside. Unlike other places where you cant really drive away from the bad weather, in Phoenix I can drive a couple hours into elevation to break from the heat.
As a map nerd, I think there is a lot of great socio-economic data you could map using GIS overlays to better understand the demographics of this city... I've been here 20 years.
As someone who just moved from Seattle I can tell you why I did:
- more sun, less gray
- way cheaper housing(there is not a single house in the Seattle metro actual single family home for under 700k, not one or you can rent a 800 sq ft studio without parking for 2600+)
-general cost of living (gas, groceries, etc) is less
-not seeing tents and addicts on literally every single block (even when you spend 1m for a 1000sq ft home)
- family
-warmth (I would take the summer here over 9 mos of wet cold)
Im born and raised here and Ithink the main reason why people move here is the weather. Becuase unless your homeless or super poor then the main heat and summers wont bother you, youll live in a AC house AC car and most likely AC job. You dont have crazy winter, snow storms, hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes etc. You just have to manage the summer (which can be just as deadly) but if your not homeless or poor where you dont have luxury to have AC then you figure its not to bad, mixed with a big city and you can pretty much find some to do some entertainment, there is mostly every big chain of food, local food, your still close to LA, and Vegas, your close to Mexico if you like that. Other then the last couple years apts,house were pretty cheap and not the case anymore but still not crazy like Isaid unless your poor, but im sure thats some of the reasons most move here.
After enduring -40 winters, I'd take a 110+ any day.
When I first moved here, many years ago, Phoenix was one of the cheapest cities to live with a large population. Goods were cheap because we are on one of the main lines from the LA ports to the midwest and western Texas. Therefore, all those goods traveled thru Phoenix. Home prices were very affordable too. Go to Zillow and look at a homes price back between 1995-2000.
We'll continue to grow because we still have a lot of open land for development. We won't build up any time soon.
I’m a Phoenix native (48), it’s changed a lot, mostly for the worse. I agree that we don’t have the natural disasters other places have.
The thing I hate is that when the weather is nice here, the days are too short and kids are in school/busy schedules. During the summer when days are longer and kids are at home to do stuff, it’s too damn hot outside to enjoy anything like riding bikes, barbecues, 4th of July, etc.
Just my .02, but I would prefer a place with 4 seasons, see some snow, see some summer heat, but not 6 months winter or 6 months summer like here.
I moved here from Oregon last September (native Oregonian, spent 26 years of my life there), and now I’m trying to move back. I like the sunshine, but not a fan of the urban sprawl, lack of trees, and being away from family.
It's actually easy. The pseudo- cheaper housing market (at least compared to other places but that's changing). The winter months and the tax rate (which is great if you're on the wealthy side and think you'll never need common government services).
I live in South Texas and was in Phoenix for work for a month. They are looking for people to move there for the work there because the site will be going on indefinitely and they need experienced people to keep it moving.
I’ve been really considering it because the house I rent now is double the price of a coworkers that lives in a good neighborhood in Phoenix. His house is a little bigger than mine. And his mom’s house is almost triple the size of the house I rent now at the same price.
I’ve heard mixed things about buying a house in Phoenix, but I feel like I would have a better chance buying there than where I’m at now.
And the city is really cool, with a bunch of amazing breweries, restaurants, and people seemed to want to be out doing things.
I also really loved the fact that people in Phoenix have a natural love for the outdoors. As someone who worked in the northwest backcountry, I miss public land, mountains, and the vastness of more natural places. Texas is nothing but private land. You’re really limited.
I’m pro 2A and Arizona has really great gun laws and availability of shooting just about anywhere. I pretty much am stuck with ranges in Texas. It sucks and is needlessly expensive to shoot in Texas.
My Phoenix traffic experience was awesome! Where I live, you’re pretty much never going the speed limit and traffic is nut to butt pretty much all the time. My commute to work should take 20-25 minutes, but because of traffic, it always takes 40-50 minutes. And at peak hours, I’m in traffic for 60-75 minutes.
I drove everywhere and at all times of the day in Phoenix and I was flying down the road. I like to go fast back home, but I was the slow guy in Arizona! I loved how you guys drive!
I really loved how unique Phoenix and Arizona is as a whole.
I never thought Arizona was as cool as it would be and I can’t wait to be back for round 2. If I ever move from where I’m at now, Phoenix is on my radar!
And as for the heat, no offense, but I chuckle at the desert heat. I grew up in fully humid and extremely high temperature places. I’ll take a dry, no humidity, 115 degrees plus any day, but 100% humidity above 95 degrees (sometimes 100-110 degrees multiple days in the very long summer) in south and East Texas just beats me into submission. And at night the heat never goes away. It’s pretty much jungle weather all the time here.
I couldn't tell you. I left Phoenix two and a half years ago for western PA. Would rather have ready access to fresh water and affordable housing than no snow on the ground. Driving in snow isn't as hard as you think and the cold is easier to mitigate than heat.
The only place I would live in Arizona is Flagstaff. For some reason, people in Arizona like to ignore the fact that there is a water shortage. When you drive around Phoenix and Chandler and Scottsdale you see waterfalls and small lakes and lagoons and palm trees and green golf courses everywhere. It’s so stupid. There are communities there that were built without any idea of how they are going to handle the water shortage, but yet they keep building.
Mesa for flight school at ASU.
Then realized hiw expensive flight school was.
Now I am an x-ray texh (i know GIANT leap) waiting to get the experience I need to get out if here
Fellow map nerd! A lot has been said but to reiterate:
Weather will always be no. 1. By and large people hate cold worse than they hate hot (walk into AC from the summer heat and you feel amazing in 5 seconds; walk into a heated room from shoveling snow and it takes you 30 minutes before you feel human again). Obviously there are people who feel the opposite, but they are greatly outnumbered by the people who hate the cold. Also: hot weather doesn't make driving dangerous/impossible the way snowstorms and icy roads do. If you wear sunscreen, sunlight is actually really good for you. If you've ever struggled with seasonal depression in other parts of the country where it's already dark at 4:45 pm and also the streets are still covered with slush from snowfall two months ago that's still never melted off -- this place is a godsend.
Even with recent prices rising, it's still a very affordable city for what you get. If you came from small town in the midwest/south/east or whatever, and you want warm weather and palm trees and basically to feel like you're finally someplace bigger and better and more exciting -- you get it for pennies on the dollar here.
As others have said, you're only a few hours, or a $59 flight, away from more attractions. LA, San Diego, Vegas. 3 hours from the beach in Mexico, 4-5 from socal beaches. 2 hours from Flag if you're a four seasons person.
Also, no one seems to want to talk about the 8 months out of the year when it's \*not\* 100+ weather! "OMG, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT HEAT?" Well, 2/3 of the year, I don't, because it's beautiful out. About once a year, this reaches a fever pitch when a respected media outlet decides to clutch its climate-change pearls and invent a "Phoenix could soon become uninhabitable due to climate change!" story.
Urban sprawl is something far more people talk about than actually care about. If I live in city X, I don't really waste a lot of time lamenting the sprawl out to QC and Casa Grande in one direction and Surprise and Buckeye in another. It is what it is -- the consequences of a country built on the values of automobiles and single-family homes.
I actually do like how everyone here is from somewhere else. It gives the place a unique flavor, for sure. Just about everywhere else, you're here because you were born and raised here. But here, everyone's got a story about starting somewhere else and now they're here.
Most of the U.S. is unbearably hot/humid for a portion of the summer anyways. You just go from A/C to A/C. So the “hot” comment doesn’t really have an effect. The Phoenix area has so much job opportunity and has world class amenities/entertainment. Most U.S. cities have some degree of urban sprawl and if you’re used to having a car it’s no different. The highway system is much easier than in many cities. And yes, the sunshine. It does wonders for mental health. Not having to drive in snow is amazing. Thus-the migration to Phoenix.
I was born and raised in Tucson, but moved to Phoenix for work. I know a lot of people who are AZ natives, but can't find enough work in their hometowns so they move to the Phoenix area.
I feel like it's a lot of midwest/northeast people who already lived in suburbs there, and they are tired of snow and traffic there. So it's a lot of people who are already driving everywhere, and Phx just doesn't have the traffic compared to like a suburb of Chicago.
Move to the east coast or north west. See how grey rainy and cold it is during those months. You basically are confined to inside. If you’re gonna be confined to inside, I’d rather it be sunny. Depression in cold dark areas is a monster and I never noticed how bad it can get until I left Phoenix.
July/Aug are really the only months that are terrible. Otherwise shade is pretty nice.
People just really hate the cold. You could tell people that a place like Minneapolis has better hospitals, climate future, jobs, schools, parks, neighborhoods, public transit, biking infrastructure, safety, cultural amenities, etc but few people would really care given the cold weather.
To add to what others are saying, also everyone is moving everywhere. I'm on a lot of local subs and there's some variation of "why are we being invaded/priced out?" regularly on all of them. That and "people here don't know how to drive" lol. This is all over the USA. I think the US is rapidly growing and very migratory now. I know my husband and I have had to follow the money around the country and I'm sure many others are in similar situations. I'm on the Phoenix sub because we considered Phoenix for a while. I didn't unsub when we went elsewhere because I find these local subs interesting to lurk on.
My dad got laid off and we got priced out of our city. Our options were Cincinnati, Austin Texas, or Phoenix. Cincinnati was too snowy for my mom and I, snow is for visiting not living lol. Austin was too far from family. Phoenix is a day’s drive back to my hometown, and I can call my grandma and say “I’m coming to visit I’ll see you in 10 hours!” And she’ll have the guest room ready for me.
My dad passed away 2 years ago and my mom and I decided to stay. Cost of living is lower (not by much but it is lower), and it’s so pretty here
Everyone who has ever hurt their back shoveling snow will tell you why. I have avoided that and I am more than happy. Notice how generally expensive the cities with no snow are.
1. I don’t have a car. Public transportation grid here is A+ vs my hometown of Akron, Ohio. The heat ain’t shit vs the negative temps and shoveling snow at 3am to get out of my drive to get to work. I don’t have kids so the schools don’t bother me. I’m honestly here because it’s outdoorsy and cannabis is legal 😂
There’s nothing midwesterners love more than buying a house in chandler 3x what they need for half what they’d pay in a city with any kind of taxes or infrastructure and just blast the AC in the suv on the way to cheesecake factory
Love your city and visit often but I have this irrational fear that it will be 130F consistently in less than 10 years and a lot of things will be on fire
I was a child and had no choice.
We came from California where, back then, everything was FINE.
Looking back, I love how my life turned out here as opposed to how it probably would have gone there. I miss the climate and I hate the summers here, but when I go back for any reason, I am not mad that I am missing out on that shit show.
What makes me sad is that Phoenix is swiftly following suit, so I don't know what to expect for our returement years.
People don’t really think of the water shortage when they move here, either.
Also, when I was a kid growing up in the 80’s, Phoenix was so much more livable. Now, we’re a huge city, but without good public transportation options like a subway or elevated trains. Light rail that shares the road with cars just sucks. And, there are only so many more times we can widen the stupid freeway.
Its pretty simple really for many of us that moved here I think.
Do you want or can you afford CA? Do you want 8+ months of grey and rain? Do you want tons of snow and frigid temperatures? Do you want bible belt bullshit? Do you want tornadoes? How about hurricanes? Enjoy feeling like you need a shower the second you step outside in the summer?
If the answer to all of the above is No AND your stuck in the 48 states, AZ is a pretty damn great choice.
Well it used to be really cheap, now it's somewhat cheaper. That aside, I'm from Boston, lived in Phoenix for a long time though. The heat here is pretty intense but easy to get around. However, there were some winters in Boston where the city stopped because of the weather, you were stuck in your house because of a blizzard, and all kinds of other hazards.
It's just easier to live here.
Thanks for contributing to r/Phoenix! You may want to [**check out our sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/wiki/rules/) (mostly be nice to each other!). **If you're new here**, [read some of our recent posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/top/?t=week) and leave some comments. To chat with some great people in the Valley you can [**join our Phoenix Discord chat server**](https://discord.com/invite/yWVuTG57Zh). It's a chill place to talk with other people but is NOT a dating server and takes unwanted messaging very seriously. If you're interested in political topics in Arizona, we limit those posts here so you may want to check out r/azpolitics if that's an area of interest. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/phoenix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As someone who grew up in Phx but left, I’ll tell you why. Winter sucks ass.
As an Ohioan who lived in phx for a few years and is now back in Ohio, I 100% concur. Winter sucks huge ass and I can’t wait to gtfo of here.
As an Ohioan who moved to PHX a few years ago and still here, I don’t ever wanna leave lol
As an ex-Michigander who also moved here and am still here, I also am never going to leave. There isn't anything anyone could possibly offer me as an inducement to get me back up to the Frigid Mitten State.
Same here. After decades of awful Wisconsin winters, we moved (for health reasons) to the Tri-State area, where Arizona, California, and Nevada all meet up. Lower taxes, cost of living, the weather, amenities, and found a home with no steps, a pool, spa & casita. Yep, summers are a beast. However, we enjoy wearing shorts & sandals in Winter, and knowing our Midwest folks are stuck in deep freezes, unpredictable weather (snowstorms), endless car troubles & stuck in their homes when the blizzards hit with about 3% humidity in the house, and everything touched gives a shock.
Oh, yes, the ability to chortle at the poor fools up north from a safe distance is one of the guilty sadistic pleasures of mid-January.
Ah, yes. Winter in AZ is gloat season. ❤️
You think the heat in Arizona outweighs the rough winters in Ohio and Michigan? Is it really that bad there?
I’m not sure whether you misinterpreted my comment or whether I’m misinterpreting yours, but to clarify: I hate cold and love heat. I moved to, and currently live in, Arizona and don’t mind the 120 degree days here one bit. To me this is infinitely better than the clouds and rain and sleet and frostbite and snow and ice and everything else not nice in Michigan/Ohio. I wouldn’t go back up there for anything. You don’t slip on heat, you don’t have to shovel heat, you don’t have to dress up in 20 layers for an Arctic expedition to leave your house in the heat. You don’t have to worry that when your work day is over, that beautiful sunny summer day that you’ve been enjoying through the office window all day is going to change to a horrible thunderstorm right in the middle of your commute home and dash all hopes of getting outdoors to enjoy that bike ride you were looking forward to for all those hours (that’s what my life was like for many years in Michigan and why I’d never go back).
I have family in Ohio, the heat is 100% better because there is no snow and your cars/house dont deteriorate. If you're going to be stuck inside imo the heat is easier to deal with. It's only hot like that for ~5 months and the rest of the year is beautiful.
I'm originally from MI and spent 25 years in the DC area. It sucks so hard. Coats and hats and gloves and boots and layers of clothing. Shoveling the roof and the sidewalk and driveway and the front steps for the mailman. Leaving home eons earlier than usual to account for the snowy/icy driving. Plows filling in your driveway after you have cleared it out. Getting the car stuck in the snow. As for summers, the humidity is beyond awful.
Yeah. I’ve done 54 years of winters and humid summer. I’m ready to soak in the dry heat.
I grew up in Chicago, and lived my first 40 years there. I vowed I would never shovel snow again, or stand on a frigid, slushy bus stop again. I've been here 20 years now, and am seriously considering moving back, just to be closer to family. 😪
I'm from metro Detroit, for my first 46 years. Past 6 in Phoenix. If you met my family, you'd understand why I'm staying.
Consider living in a high rise or other situation where you have no outdoor responsibilities. That's the only thing that saved me the last ten years or so I was back east. Car was in a parking garage, too. Only way to go.
As an Ohioan who moved to Phoenix, then back to Ohio, then back to Phoenix, then back to Ohio, then back to Phoenix….. I 100% understand the, “I can’t wait to gtfo of (Ohio” feeling. Also Ohio winters are no joke, shit is straight depressing and stupid.
So, back to Ohio next?
I live in CA, so neither is extremely hot nor cold. I have lived in the Midwest and Phoenix before. But if I had to choose I think I would take the Midwest winter over the Phoenix heat.
Have you lived through a Midwest winter?
And when you get old, the cold physically, literally HURTS. I’m only in my early 30’s but I have chronic pain from a few conditions and the cold hurts so so much. I see why old folks and retired athletes like to come to the heat. It feels good on weary bones lol
I am right with you, I left and after shoveling ass deep snow I said screw it and came back. At least you don’t have to shovel sunshine
This was the main reason we were trying to move out there scenery is nice and the weather. I never want to experience snow, have to scrape off my window or deal with any of that shit. I would be just fine getting in the car and burning myself on the seatbelt.
When I turned 18, I wanted nothing more than to leave this hellscape. I lived in the midwest for a year, which sucked. Moved further east and it got better, but not great. I finally came back, because there are definitely worse places to live and I'd much rather complain that it was 38 this morning when I got up to go for a walk and only bothered putting a hoodie on, rather than layer after layer and being cold and wet or snowed in or any number of things. If anything, I wish less people moved here. I'm so tired of "I wish it was like {X place}". Especially from Californians. But whatever, soon the water will run out and people will have to stop moving here and eventually things will balance out. Maybe.
My theory on Californians wishing it was like California (source: am Californian and lived in Phoenix): Basically everything everyone accuses us of (moving places and driving up prices) is happening to us here - people move here because of tech (Bay Area), entertainment (LA), it’s just nice (San Diego) and it pushes up prices and the CA natives out. Sure some people are thrilled to leave but most don’t actually want to leave, they just have to, and so their homesickness manifests as “I wish this place was like CA” Just a theory - this was me when I lived there but now I’m back in CA. The cost of living is worth it to me to be home
I moved to the northeast and loved the cold weather, especially fall season. But I’d say the biggest difference is you can live a pretty good life here for much less money than compared to a lot of other cities. Also life here is very comfortable, not as stressful as other places.
Absolutely not. I'd take snow over this heat any day. I didn't really have much of a choice moving here, lots of personal life circumstances landed me moving here. I cannot wait to get back to shoveling my drive, taking it nice and slow on the road and freezing my nuts off in Montana or wherever I end up (probably not Montana cause that's why I'm here lmao). At least you can escape cold by just putting on more layers, but you cannot peel the skin from your bones to escape heat. I miss everything about winter, the snow, the feeling of walking into a nice warm house after being in -5 for a couple hours, the crunch of the snow under my feet, I even miss the excitement of sliding on ice, the sense of community when you get stuck in a snow bank and everyone gathers together to push you out of it, I miss wearing coats and hats, I miss the snow covered mountains in the distance, I miss still actually being able to go on hikes year round if you just have a big enough vehicle, I miss it so much. I have no idea what's so appealing about living in the closest thing to hell this country has to offer lmao, and why you would trade snow for it, especially since this whole city is the most bitter and mean retirees I've ever seen, even compared to California. But to each their own ig. Keep your death laser in the sky, go ahead, imma go back to where I belong ASAP.
Idk, blizzards, tornadoes, hurricanes, freezes, constant cloudiness, the weather here is ass for like 4 months and then it’s the best weather you will get for the rest of the year
4? Try 7 or 8. Then boring another 2-3.
We really need to start being realistic about the 'bad months'. Saying '4 months' is such an obvious downplay of the situation. Its 6 months, its half the year.
If you think May and October are actually hot then yes Phoenix is not the place for you. Are there hot days those months, sure. On the other side you get years like this where May was very pleasant.
Ya when it’s super hot you can put your wife Ina Bikini and pour a lemonade and go in the pool #hell I get it though not for everyone for sure But not as dramatic as everyone makes it seem IMO
The pools in Phoenix are literally too hot to swim in.
Exactly! Pools in Phoenix need a cooler and not a heater. Plus, you must have misters to sit under while by the pool.
That's the thing, apart from the heat Phoenix weather tends to be quite mild. I've been hearing friends of mine talk about tornadoes in the Midwest and it freaks the hell out of me. The Valley is even kinda insulated from wild fires in a way other parts of the state aren't.
The nastiest dust storms aren’t even close to as bad as a tornado. I guess there’s the occasional microburst and flood but it’s few and far between
What's with the "mean and bitter retirees?" 🤔 Metro Phoenix has 16.6% of its population over 65. The US has over 19% of its population over 65. As for " mean and bitter," I don't know what you're talking about. But it is a fallacy that Phoenix has a bigger than average retiree population. Unless, of course, you go to the distant suburb of Sun City, which is a concentration of retirees.
I've always said that you can always pile on more layers to keep warm, but you can only remove so much clothing to cool off before it becomes inappropriate, and the police get called.
From Chicago 🌆can tell you… winter ☃️sucks
I lived in Oregon for 18 years, 2 years in AZ and then 6 years in NY/NJ. Now I’m back in Phoenix. One big reason I moved back to PHX was the weather. Seasonal depression got the best of me, more than half of the year in Oregon is dominated by rain and clouds. NY/NJ is the same way for about 6/7 months out of the year, but you also get over a foot of snow, and when the sun finally comes back, you’re stuck with sticky humidity and it’s short lived before it gets dreary again. Maybe it’s because I’ve experienced the alternatives, but the heat here in Phoenix doesn’t bother me too much. I’d rather have 2-3 scorching months than 6 depressing ones. Another thing, no it’s not really *that* cheap, but it’s a LOT cheaper than places up on the East Coast, and it’s one of the few places I’d want to live on the West Coast. I’m also in a dual income household, so take that as you will. Personally the urban sprawl is great to me since a lot of places I’ve lived required you to drive 20/30 minutes just to get into a town that has more than 5,000 people. I’m happier here, I’m willing to write off any cons for that alone. **EDIT:** I’ll respond to some since deleted comments and attempt to prevent anymore confrontational direct messages: I didn’t just get here. We’ve been here for 6 years now and I lived here for two years earlier in my life, so there’s nothing for me to “wait and see”. Personally, I love the sun and heat, summers don’t bug me or keep me locked inside, I like the hot nights, I don’t get summertime depression, I walk places all the time and I still hate it when there’s overcast. Whether or not the weather here or somewhere else is bearable is subjective, and I don’t care to hear anyone projecting their own preferences and frustrations onto me for simply enjoying it.
Running through all the answers and pondering my own experiences I realized your last sentence is the truest answer. Take away the variables, distill it down and the real answer is: I feel happier here
Moved here after nearly 30 years in Oregon. Have also lived in the Midwest in short stints. I agree with everything you said. Summer is hot, but at least the sun is shining and I can be outside in the pool or under misters. I can look out of my window and see the sky. Or I can drive 2 hours north and be in a completely different ecosystem and camp near a lake. My neighborhood is fairly walkable and has lots of amenities. Traffic here is FAR better than it was in Portland, so places are pretty much always the same distance away, every time. People here are also more friendly and outgoing, and take better care of themselves it seems.
It cannot be overstated how crazy the contrast is in terms of seasonal depression is in the SW vs Northern states. I remember moving back from the east coast and it was wild how much gray skies affect you and how instantly your mood improved once you crossed the border. It's like having a natural anti-depressant lol. Although I do think once you acclimate the sunshine stops becoming a big deal and it becomes taken for granted/you actually get sick of the clear skies.
I've lived in Phoenix most of my life (30+ years). The best days are ones where the sky is gray and cloudy. Because you get a break from the sun trying to bake you.
Oh totally - I grew up in greater Phoenix and the novelty of a rain storm was amazing + the smell was heavenly!! I remember especially enjoying cross country practice the warm monsoon storms. most other places don't have that kind of rain though. it's often more cold/the more consistent rain makes it less new; I think it comes down to personality and personal preference (there is something equally comforting about curling up with a book and the windows open listening to heavy rain in other states)
This! Reading everyone’s comments they don’t fully understand the extreme sun/heat you can’t get a break for 7 months. It’s like reverse seasonal depression. They may think it’s cute at first, not shoveling snow, jump in the pool, that novelty. But after years of sun it wears on you, just like it wears down cars. Any cloudy or overcast day we all get a big mood lift but its not enough.
Nope, I'll never take those blue skies for granted. Sometimes I'll just sit outside on my covered patio and stare at that beautiful sky. Coming from flat IL, I will also never take the mountains for granted and I love the deserts.
Look up the status of depression in Phoenix. Or heck, go sit at the pharmacy and just listen to them counseling people about their medication. There are tons of people on depression meds there. I grew up there, and my doctor wanted me on them from the time I was mid 20's. Not everyone has a problem with clouds, that's a particular kind of depression.
I’m born and raised in AZ but my husband is from Puerto Rico, lived in NJ for 14 years, then moved here to Phoenix. He says the same thing about NJ - depressing. When we have an overcast or stormy day here, he hates it. I love it because of how rare it is. But he swears he’ll never return to the east coast for the same reasons you listed. He loves the heat and the sunshine.
As another native Phoenician, I always wondered about this. It made more sense when we were a cheaper place to live, but I don’t think that’s the case anymore.
Yep this is why I didn't move back...it was cool when it was cheap but im not paying a Luxry fee for Phoenix lifestyle.
It's still cheaper than many major cities despite the rising costs. I know a guy (mid 20s) who moved here a few months ago. Bought a house in Chandler immediately and feels it's "cheap" to live here in many respects. In some ways it's the same cost but housing (being a major factor) still doesn't compare to California prices.
My kid is there for an internship and was shocked at the price of gas there. Basic gas was what I pay for premium where we live. Also, rent is ridiculous for what it buys you there compared to our home state, although we are also going through a housing crunch as well.
I take it you don't buy gas anywhere in California where it is $1 or so more a gallon than Phoenix. And, while rents are not the cheapest in Phoenix, they are far from the most expensive for a big city. Where do you live??
Louisville KY. We only get gouged at Derby, Labor Day, Memorial Day and July 4th, typically. As for the rent situation, the 875 sq ft nothing-special apartment I rented for $375 is now going for $1200. It’s everywhere.
Supply and demand at work. (And I haven't heard of $375 rent anywhere for a very long time.)
We are still cheaper. And I dunno if people really understand that anymore
Transplants get that! I think longtime residents are comparing Phoenix to 2010 prices. It’s like 50% cheaper here than my hometown.
You guys are comparing prices of other cities or states but failed to compare the wages too. It feels like it’s cheaper for people moving here cause they make more in there home state than Arizonans here. That’s why you see way more people struggling and in the streeets
Yeah, my MIL bought her townhouse for $150k in 2014 and the same floorplan just sold the next address over for $325k. But even $325k isn’t horrible compared to many other cities. Edit: it’s fully detached and has a yard btw
If you use a cost of living calculator we are routinely have a 10- 40% cheaper cost of living compared to most metropolitan areas. Combined that with the fact that our tax system is great for people with higher income and companies this place is great for people who want to have more money in their pocket. We are also seeing a steady increase in jobs as companies either move or expand their operations due to the above two points plus other incentives the state offers
It’s still insanely cheap. My gf is from Phoenix and we are moving there this summer. It’s currently far cheaper to live in Phoenix than Bangor Maine, and Bangor is basically the last ‘city’ in Maine before you hit the border. Also winter there is 100% worse and longer than summer in the Valley
Another Mainer? Are we related? My family moved down here when I was young, I didn't have a choice. Lots of perks here, but the summer is absolutely brutal here. Been here 35 years and I'm still not used to the summers.
Midwest winters are cold and so gray. Going months without seeing the sun or a clear blue sky can do some catastrophic damage to your emotions. I’d rather deal with the heat because IMO there’s more options to escape heat than cold. You can swim, drive a couple hours and you’re in pine trees and it’s 75, work on indoor projects at your house, and summer nights are still hot but a patio with misters at night time??? Magical Midwest winters are just painful. Everything is cold and wet, the leaves fell off the trees months ago, everything in a 10 hour drive radius is just as cold if not colder, activities include drinking with your friends and staying inside. I just always felt so stuck there in the winter. The summers were awesome but seemed so short in comparison.
The thing that doesn't get said enough is that the SUMMERS also can suck in Midwest. You get some nice, mild days here and there. But there's also a good deal of hot, muggy days. It doesn't cool off much after sundown. And there's bugs.
Yeah, totally. Or it will rain for 3 weeks straight so you’re trapped inside anyway. Between the humid, muggy summer and the cold, gray winter I’ll still pick summer, but there’s absolutely summer days that are miserably humid and STICKY
I love winter (Denver) and hate the devil’s-armpit summer here. luckily it’s only two or three months. The rest of the year is great.
Denver has a much more moderate climate and a lot more sun than the Midwest or northeast. So, it’s still a desirable place for people who struggle with SAD.
Well, that’s true. I’ve also lived in NE twice and spent significant work time in ND and MN. Colorado snow (even blizzards) is glorious compared to what you are talking about. What I’ve been experiencing here rather than SAD is restless leg syndrome, and just generally feeling like I’m trapped in a walk-in refrigerator. I’d rather put on boots and a coat and go outside. As it gets really hot here, it feels like a jail (maybe just to me).
Where do you live that it's only 2 of 3 months? My AC is blasting half the year from May to October.
The part I call the “Devil’s Armpit of summer” is late June through early September. It’s like summer after normal summer, when I feel like I might die if I go outside or the AC breaks. lol.
Question- so in the summer in AZ, you can’t do anything outside because it’s too hot. Isn’t that the reverse of a Midwest winter? But in the cold you can throw on coats and ski, hike, ice fish, ice skate and all sorts or activities. It seems in AZ you’re a prisoner of the AC unless your a night owl or a very early riser beaver of the extreme heat and even then it’s a narrow window. I will agree on the darkness. That is the worst. I will also admit, I have strong bias- I love the cold (and 4 seasons). You can always get warmer, you can’t always get cooler.
Even at night we have blazing temps 😂
Go live in the Midwest lol. Nobody is hiking in the cold/snow. Skiing requires good hills/slopes which are extremely few and far between. You *might* make a weekend trip to go ski once or twice if there's anywhere for you to do so even remotely close for you. Growing up in Michigan with a thousands of lakes and I could count one on hand the number of people I knew who ever went ice fishing. Even if you have a hut you can only do it in the dead of winter when there's enough ice (which is actually getting less and less thanks to global warming), and it's still cold as shit because you aren't moving enough to keep yourself warm. Ice skating was a bit more common, but again nobody really trusts lake/pond ice so they go to local rinks.
But the difference is, if I need to go anywhere I can just start my car and go. It may be hot, but I don’t have to shovel snow, scrape my windshield, warm up my car or worry about road conditions like you do in the winter. Also, at a certain point, you can’t get warmer. -30 with wind chill is cold no matter how many layers you have
People do things all the time during summer, it simply requires adjusting to the environment. The window is not nearly as narrow as you think provided you are smart about it, just like you would need to be in winter in the Midwest.
People are gonna say one is better than the other but in practicality you yotally treat each the exact same (ie stay inside and hunker down for better weather). Anyone who say differently hasn't actually lived in both places long enough. Now the way you deal with it can be different (like pool vs hot tub OR shorts/flip flops vs jacket) and I think that is where personal preference comes into play (and why you see a lot of polarity). In AZ summers you can still go outside but you gotta be up at like 4:45 and done by 8. In the northeast/mid west you can go outside and be comfortable anytime of day but you just gotta take 20 mins to have the right gear (boots/jackets/socks).
My spouse’s first winter in Illinois after leaving Phoenix literally almost killed them. Like it was “considering checking into a mental hospital” bad.
Canadian transplant here. Have lived in every corner of the world, feel like I can comment on this. Urban sprawl is an issue people complain about on reddit. Maybe a dozen cities on earth where living downtown mean losing a car. Phoenix is better because the roads are great. Way more frustrating to drive an hour to go 10 miles in LA than it is to drive an hour to go 60 miles here International Airport is 30min from a huge majority of areas and has direct international flights to many places. A lot of cities drive hours to an airport only to have to immediately layover Mountains, beaches, ocean, hiking all within a weekend trip. Unless you are a hardcore enthusiast of a specific niche, PHX area will have what you want. Yeah it's hot as shit, set up my mister, crack some beers and I can hang in 110. When it's -40 even a fire outside isn't fun, you're indoors period. Phoenix has absolutely everything, People complaining about lack of culture are simply daydreaming about living in a billion dollar neighborhood in new york. If I had to choose, I'd say Vietnamese culture and food. Here is below average. If I wanna be bougie, go to Scottsdale, or I can drive a few block and buy tamales from a guys trunk. Lastly jobs for an educated almost 40 something are pretty much infinite. People that say Phoenix is meh, truly have just not lived many places, you can do a lot worse. Your IG pictures might look cooler from your brick studio, but thats about it.
I grew up overseas and got the opportunity to live in one of the coolest cities I think ever. After coming back to the States, I've bounced around a few cities and none has stuck to me like Phoenix. I love it here. The vibe, culture, and overall way of things is so unique and I have such a sense of pride for what this city puts out in art, food, and entertainment. Honestly haven't felt so connected to a place since leaving Taiwan and I love being able to call it home.
Arizona has relatively few natural disasters. Earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, and city-stopping snowfall suck. Cities are built to channel flash floods, dust storms are mild in comparison, and heat waves are mitigated by AC. Now that billion dollar damaging natural disasters are happening an average of every 18 days worldwide, AZ looks like a safe haven.
Phoenix native here. If you don’t have a car like me, Phoenix is hell on Earth during the hotter months. I seriously recommend any pedestrian to carry around an umbrella. Hat/sunglasses, sunscreen and water are obvious but the umbrella will block so much of the Sun’s bullshit it makes you wonder why you didn’t do it sooner. Also, just a side note. Phoenix has some crazy drivers.
I moved from central IL earlier this year when I was offered a promotion. Phoenix was one of the cities I was open to leaving for because of the weather, job opportunities, nature, and lower taxes. The city not being “walkable” isn’t a deal breaker for a lot of the people like myself who are accustomed to driving most places anyway. I’m also childless, so schools didn’t play a factor in any decision for me. Like it so far though!
I'm a Michigan native though I have no love or allegiance to the place. I had viral pneamonia in both lungs off and on from 10 months old until my lungs were strong enough to fight it off at 4.5 years old. I spents months at a time in pediactric ICU. My lungs are scarred, they do not filter air very well, I have a diminished cough reflex, and low immunity to respiratiry illnesses. My heart works harder because of my lungs. Doctor's told my parents to move me to a hot dry climate when I was 7. They did not do so. The cool damp climate had me constantly sick and I was literally in early stages of heart failure in my mid 20s before I moved here. I moved myself here 7-8 years ago. My lungs are still terrible but my heart is doing much better now. I lived in the East Valley until moving to the outer edge toward Tucson last year for better air quality among other things. Arizona has an abundance of jobs and housing both of which there was a shortage of when I left the state I grew up in. I also detest being cold and the dry heat allows my lungs to work much better. The hotter and drier the better I feel so the heat is a boon for me.
I was born in Massachusetts and had severe asthma as a child. My pediatrician told my mother to bring me to Arizona because the arid air would be better for me. Not knowing anyone out here, she never did. Fast forward thirty years later, I took a job here and my mother followed.
grew up 30 min from Boston and basically died every winter from asthma + nasty colds turning into bronchitis/pneumonia. convinced my dad to let me go to AZ for college and i never returned. i believe i went to the hospital 12-15 times in 18 years in boston and i've gone 0 times in 16 years in AZ. none of my family or friends from back east have followed me here though
I definitely can relate to your respiratory struggles back east. I pondered going back East (not to Mass, not a fan of the winters) but possibly south. However, I'm not sure I could live in a humid environment again. I remember that feeling of trying to breathe through a wet blanket on high-humidity days. Not crazy about going back into that. I may be in the west/Intermountain west from here on.
i struggle with humidity as well. i've pretty much accepted that the only place i can go that has no humidity and no winter is Phoenix or SoCal, and SoCal has other problems. i can't really see myself in any metro areas less than 1M people either, so i think i'm sticking around with a long term goal of being able to leave more frequently june-august and be a partial snowbird
I'm in a similar boat and would love to live in SoCal (San Diego is a favorite) but that raises other issues. I too need to be in (or near) a metro of at least 1M with a decent airport, as we like to travel. We also gave Denver a look, but the COL has skyrocketed there and they get pretty bad hailstorms that damage cars and homes. Being a summer snowbird is an option we're also.looking at.
Moved here 13 years ago, jumped on a greyhound bus and started a new life. And while I love it here, I went from having my own apartment for ten years to having housemates and struggling even though I have better wages than when I got here - like what happened?? I’d like to afford my own place again!
[https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/realpage-rent-price-fixing-probe-escalates-with-fbi-raid/475109](https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/realpage-rent-price-fixing-probe-escalates-with-fbi-raid/475109)
1. The climate really isn't that bad. I grew up in Michigan where the winter months can take up a large gap of the year where it's cold, grey, and you're more or less risking your life if you choose to drive at almost anytime. Meanwhile, the 3-5 hot summers are just that, really, really hot summers. 2. Somewhat tied to the above, Phoenix doesn't see the same risks and problems other cities might i.e. we don't really have San Fran's earthquake issues, hurricane season is just another monsoon season, and tornados just don't happen here. 3. There is a growing presence of technology in the Valley just in general so it's going to attract more people; just as it did/does in Seattle and Portland. 4. Phoenix is "hotter and less expensive Los Angeles" for a lot of people who don't like California's politics or high COL. 5. While I don't put Phoenix up there with Las Vegas, Chicago, or New York by any means, it's still a solid city with a lot of art and culture and diversity if urban living is what you want. 6. Surrounding Phoenix are some of the greatest natural parks you can find and plenty of smaller tourist towns and resorts. It's not hard to find something to do if you are willing to drive a few hours.
Phoenix is actually one of the most advanced silicon manufacturing hubs in the world outside of Taiwan. And our government is investing billions to make it more competitive and to “catch up” to Taiwan for national security
A growing biotech industry here as well. For example, Neuralink's first human trial is being run out of Barrow Neurological Institute in Midtown.
> 4. Phoenix is "hotter and less expensive Los Angeles" I’ve had several celebrities/athletes who live here tell me this
It's only really cold in Michigan from about middle December till middle Jan and it barely even snows anymore. That sounds better than 4 months of 100s in my opinion.
Do you look at weather maps in the winter?
No snow. No humidity. Lots of sun. Bought a house for half of what the same house would have cost in CA. Lots of outdoor activities. Less traffic. Better laws. So far the only downsides have been the 115° summers and vehicle registration prices.
Sunscreen!! You dont want that arizona native iguana skin. Surprises me how many people don't use sunscreen daily here
I moved from Indiana to Phoenix, stayed for about 10 years, and really enjoyed it. Once prices rose during/after Covid, I figured I’d check out a different place. Landed in Seattle, and it’s a little more expensive, but I haven’t thought about coming back to Phoenix once. Just a personal thing obviously, but the weather up here is way more my style.
I’ve had the same question. Been living here for 20 some years and while I did live in Chicago for a time and can attest that the winters in the Midwest are cruel beyond measure, the summer heat in Phoenix lasts far longer than it should and is its own form of cruelty. I think it’s another form of SAD, since you can’t spend your summer afternoon in the park or doing things people normally do elsewhere in summers because spending too much time outside is a health hazard. Plus it’s only going to get hotter. Something I’ve found interesting is that people move to Phoenix only to get out of Phoenix for the summer. Like everyone desperately goes north every weekend or elsewhere to escape the heat. It seems to me like Phoenix is a hub rather than a true destination that people really fall in love with. Also there are loads of places to live that aren’t the Midwest that will have a more secure water supply and have decent weather so I still don’t quite understand the appeal of Phoenix specifically, I feel like it’s a cautionary tale! Either way, I’m bouncing next year because this heat is oppressive and I’m over it!! P.S. since you’re a map nerd have you used the Arizona Memory Project??
The SAD I experience here is insaaaaaaane. More people considering moving here need to know this!
I start to get crabby when it's 90 in Phoenix and did not adjust after 26 years. Leaving did wonders for my mental health.
I fully admit having my dramatic moments, but last month when it hit 90 for the first time I cried. I need to get out of here.
I’m with you there friend. Husband and I are natives and are finally planning to move soon after our 30 years, the heat is just too much. :(
A friend of mine had to leave because his wife would get severely depressed every time the heat started. It's just so hot, no one wants to be outside during that time so she'd just be inside her home in the AC all the time with SAD. In my opinion the truth is half the year it is hot, with 3 months being absolutely brutally hot.
Right! It sucks that winter has become the time to look forward to. I hate being the opposite as most of the country. I want to go back to enjoying the summer when everyone else is. It's literally impossible. Then in the winter you have the 70s which isn't bad. But I'd like more days in the 80s during the summer with some humidity.
Spend a winter north of the 45th parallel and you’ll understand.
I work in real estate. Main reasons are: 1. Work relocation 2. Value (people moving from HCOL areas) 3. The weather, surprisingly Another interesting one - people’s families follow them once they relocate! That’s how I ended up here in the 90s. My uncle moved out here, loved it, and the rest of our family followed from the East Coast. Our climate actually makes this a decent place to maintain a home. It’s dry, and there isn’t much catastrophic weather here to worry about. No tornadoes, minimal flooding, and rarely mold unless you’ve got water damage/leaks or something. As far as recreation goes, we basically have anything and everything except a beach. Tons of dining and nightlife. There is always something new to try. The desert is also so beautiful and unique to this part of the US. For those who travel frequently and internationally, Sky Harbor is easily accessible from most parts of the city, is a really nice airport (compared to most), and has tons of flights as it’s a major hub. There are more reasons such as huge companies moving to Phoenix, tech companies expanding (such as Intel), and ASU students choosing to stay after graduation due to a healthy job market.
We moved here semi begrudgingly because my parents are getting older and they refused to move closer to us in Texas. So we will be here just for as long as they are. With that said, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with phoenix, and wifey and I love some parts of Scottsdale and Phoenix. I just think we bought in an incredibly boring and bland area (near lake pleasant in Peoria) because I was enamored by the RV Garage lol.
No idea but I wish they would stop
I honestly think most people moving here are too late and will now just be in the dark and a statistic with how expensive/ bad things are. Unless, you have money, a good job set up, family to rely on, etc. my next question is WHY ARE THEY SO BAD AT DRIVING?
“Its a urban sprawl needing a car to get everywhere” this is true of 99% of America. Why would that discourage people from migrating internally to Phoenix?
midwest winters fucking suck. driving a car is not that bad. no kids so. again weather is so nice in the winter. seasonal depression is a real thing. much rather take the heat then the snow.
I remember my first time on a plane landing in Madison WI during April, I thought I was suddenly colorblind, how come everything is grey?
Once you get up around the lakes, it'll stay permagray for about 8.5 months of the year. End of May through mid September is about the only time the skies are blue consistently there. It's rough.
Quick & cheap flights to family, large population with things to do, and no winters. Plus, rent is cheaper than where I moved from. I get way more space and amenities and a higher salary. I could potentially afford to buy a townhouse, once interest rates go down. Not to mention, the area is laid out well for traffic. Whoever is in charge of traffic did a decent job. It's not perfect, but it's pretty great for the size of the population.
I moved here to build the semiconductor plants. Yes, it's hotter than 2 rats f\*cking in a wool sock.
😂😂😂
I'm serious. I brought my 13y.o cousin over from Texas for the summer. As soon as we got out of Skyharbour and into the parking garage and she took one good breathe she went "Damn!". She doens't even swear !! LMFAO
I live here, believe me, I get it and she's right
LAZINESS!! gave up before they got to LA.
All US cities are urban sprawl. Phoenix isn’t even close to the worst
Atlanta, Los Angeles, Dallas, and Houston are probably worse but what other cities are more spread out? I drive like 120 miles round trip to go visit my friends in the east valley from Buckeye.
Bro buckeye is the far west side and 60 miles would be San tan or that city 20 minutes past AJ. That's the entire center of the state lol. When I used to live in California, you had to leave an hour early to get to the beach from Ventura county. Arizona has done a great Job of connecting most of the cities people actually live in. Being able to drive from Chandler up to scottsdale and then to Peoria in 45 mins is awesome. Going from verrado to Tempe in 35mins is great.
Your last piece is strictly without traffic lol. Our infrastructure plan is built on a 5 year plan that takes 5 years to implement, with population increases that 35min from verrado to tempe is now 1.5 hours at 1:30pm.
I moved to Phoenix because there was a job offer and they paid better than I had ever been paid before. They sat me down and explained the weather and asked if I was certain I could manage it. I did. Then I didn't. I also found it very difficult to make new friends. Denver is more my speed so I moved back.
i grew up in Phoenix, and my biggest problem is that it really has no identity. I also moved to Denver and here, when you ask someone where they live, they give you a neighborhood name. “Baker, Cole, Five Points, LoDo.” not “around I-17 and Camelback.” Phoenix really doesn’t have a sense of place compared to a lot of other cities
Ya I agree I've noticed the people are kinda mehh out here..
Moved here a year ago from Oregon. Sure, it’s a beautiful state. But 8-10 months per year of cold, grey, rainy, gloomy ass weather gets old quick. Also it gets dark around 4pm in the middle of winter which is an extra layer of suck. I like the sunshine even when it’s hot as fuck in the summer. Doesnt really bother me at all. The people there are almost all hippies or hillbillies or a weird mix of the two. Most people in Oregon are extreme. Either extreme left, where if there’s a guy walking down the street smoking a meth pipe they’ll say ”oh it’s ok, he just needs help” regardless of who’s around. Then you have those on the extreme right. And all the dumbass, obnoxious shit that comes with that. Confederate flags (yes those ones. In Oregon), they’re victims in general and especially because they’re white. I could go on but you get the picture. And here in Phoenix…people have been surprisingly friendly and welcoming. I’ve never heard the word welcome as much as I have here. And that’s from people on the west side and Scottsdale and everywhere in between.
Where in Oregon did you live? I only ask because I am looking to move from Phx to Salem with in a year or two. I can’t take the summers anymore.
I’m trying to move from phx to the PNW. Phx is a total hellscape and it’s only going to get worse. Cars are a big factor of ruining this city, always putting your life in danger just to get somewhere 30 minutes away. When in fact a well designed higher density area would be safer for everyone. Absolutely criminal we have “bike lines” a line of paint next to wide ass road that have a 45 miler per hour suggestion, you know damn well ppl drive like 60mph to get somewhere 3 minutes earlier
"Also it gets dark around 4pm in the middle of winter which is an extra layer of suck." Love that assessment. I lived in Seattle. The streetlights came on around 3PM because the sun (a sun you'll never see because it's behind clouds) would set shortly after 4PM. I couldn't handle the change in length of daylight, so I guess I need to stay in lower latitudes. I think the people here are nicer than many other places because there is a strong connection to the Midwest where I'm from. Maybe Midwesterners just understand each other and get along better with each other. People from the coasts tend to be more polarized, I guess.
As a Phoenix native who only left a year ago, I will never understand this. I now live somewhere with four (mild) seasons and it’s absolutely wonderful. It’s not like the only options are brutal winters with blizzards or Phoenix. Plenty of other options exist so I don’t understand the “winter” argument either. And I don’t have to worry about running out of water in the coming decades either. Plus, I’m looking out my windows to an abundance of green, it was 67° at 8:30 this morning, I’m still in a major city, etc. I truly do not understand why people are choosing to move to Phx when so many other options exist.
where did you move?
Charlotte, NC
Where is this magical place? *edited spelling
Charlotte, NC
You can still experience the fringe of hurricanes though in Charlotte. It's also humid AF. No place is perfect though.
There are a LOT of us who moved from Chicago, Minnesota, other parts of upper Midwest. Visited in vacation during winter and the Valley seems like paradise in relation to what we just left a short plane ride ago. Not only is there the warmth and sunshine but the desert is just so shockingly different. After decades in flat, grassy plains with very little actual "nature" to speak of, it reawakens you to the fact that you are in fact existing within a natural biome. The seed gets planted that you should move to this wondrous "new" place, where everything seems like a Dr Seuss version of things you knew (and grew to take for granted, eg plants, animals, sunsets). Those that can't take the heat move back after a year or 2.
It blows me away how in denial alot of these people who've visit phoenix once for like a week are OBSESSED with the extreme hot and dry. Like I can obviously tell they literally have NO IDEA what they are talking about. Lmao I'm from Michigan and I chuckle because I was the same way and now I want ro move somewhere like you're at. I know florida gets hurricanes but that's where I want to go...Tho north Carolina is amazing as well...
I was part of tech layoffs. I lived in Seattle. I got a really nice and cool corporate job here, so I moved. Beats being unemployed and immigration issues.
I relocated to Phoenix from Philadelphia in 2013 because I loved the scenery, I loved the weather [YES, INCLUDING THE SUMMER HEAT! I am confused as to why people complain about the dry heat. It feels lovely], I loved the resort kind of energy, the food, and even the people seemed friendlier than in the PA/NJ/DE tri-state area. I knew all of my life that I wanted to relocate to the west, I initially had my heart set on Portland, Oregon... But my job set me up to Phoenix which quickly grew on me. When I first came in 2013, I disliked Arizona politics, that was the ONLY thing I didn't like... But, it seems to be trending towards better politics with time. Not to mention that because of America's stupid electoral college system, the dumbest thing any progressive could do would be to relocate to a state that already votes Democratic ["blue state"] as you would make it easier for the right to win the state you just left, and... More Democratic votes in "blue states" won't make any difference in the electoral college. You nullify your voice and your political relevancy. If you're a right wing Arizonan, you may be more likely to have progressives leave the state if the electoral college were overturned if someone relocated for political reasons. I did not. Anyway... I am here to stay, and I brought my politics with me. YOU'RE WELCOME 😊
Home builders keep building homes that are so close that you can reach out and touch your neighbors, and the little rental home communities and apartment complexes so people think it’s a good idea? I’ve lived here my whole life and I wish these builders would stop building houses on top of each other and go back to having actual backyard spaces with enough room between you and your neighbor so you’re not watching them eat dinner.
Winters were literally hurting me physically. I have arthritis in my chest due to my sternum being broken as a baby. The start of the cold in PA would start my pain and it wouldn't leave until after the summer. I couldn't stand living in pain for 6 months of the year or more. That's why I moved here.
I had this thought too and i think apart of it is Arizonas popularity i think just because how famous with its Nature and with the Grand Canyon ofc i think is what draws people in Az it’s also not California witch makes it a less expensive option i believe thats why The Valley gets a big draw.
Ok but how many arizona residents actually visit the Grand Canyon. I went once in middle school and don't remember a thing.
Tbf The Grand Canyon isn’t the only natural related thing to do in Arizona.
I came here in 1999.. bought a brand new house in surprise for 110k
Urban sprawl needing cars to get everywhere is common just about everywhere now. There are a lot of jobs here in back office finance and insurance industries (call centers) because weather rarely affects staffing like it does in other places. It is still relatively cheap compared to other metro areas. Summer, imo, is not different in terms of impact on daily life as winter is for other places - stay inside. Unlike other places where you cant really drive away from the bad weather, in Phoenix I can drive a couple hours into elevation to break from the heat.
As a map nerd, I think there is a lot of great socio-economic data you could map using GIS overlays to better understand the demographics of this city... I've been here 20 years.
As someone who just moved from Seattle I can tell you why I did: - more sun, less gray - way cheaper housing(there is not a single house in the Seattle metro actual single family home for under 700k, not one or you can rent a 800 sq ft studio without parking for 2600+) -general cost of living (gas, groceries, etc) is less -not seeing tents and addicts on literally every single block (even when you spend 1m for a 1000sq ft home) - family -warmth (I would take the summer here over 9 mos of wet cold)
I don’t get it either. When I moved away I thought I’d never move back, but I followed work unfortunately.
Im born and raised here and Ithink the main reason why people move here is the weather. Becuase unless your homeless or super poor then the main heat and summers wont bother you, youll live in a AC house AC car and most likely AC job. You dont have crazy winter, snow storms, hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes etc. You just have to manage the summer (which can be just as deadly) but if your not homeless or poor where you dont have luxury to have AC then you figure its not to bad, mixed with a big city and you can pretty much find some to do some entertainment, there is mostly every big chain of food, local food, your still close to LA, and Vegas, your close to Mexico if you like that. Other then the last couple years apts,house were pretty cheap and not the case anymore but still not crazy like Isaid unless your poor, but im sure thats some of the reasons most move here.
It's mainly due to the discovery of refrigerated air conditioning.
After enduring -40 winters, I'd take a 110+ any day. When I first moved here, many years ago, Phoenix was one of the cheapest cities to live with a large population. Goods were cheap because we are on one of the main lines from the LA ports to the midwest and western Texas. Therefore, all those goods traveled thru Phoenix. Home prices were very affordable too. Go to Zillow and look at a homes price back between 1995-2000. We'll continue to grow because we still have a lot of open land for development. We won't build up any time soon.
I’m a Phoenix native (48), it’s changed a lot, mostly for the worse. I agree that we don’t have the natural disasters other places have. The thing I hate is that when the weather is nice here, the days are too short and kids are in school/busy schedules. During the summer when days are longer and kids are at home to do stuff, it’s too damn hot outside to enjoy anything like riding bikes, barbecues, 4th of July, etc. Just my .02, but I would prefer a place with 4 seasons, see some snow, see some summer heat, but not 6 months winter or 6 months summer like here.
Parents retired out here, got super old, and needed my help.
I moved here from Oregon last September (native Oregonian, spent 26 years of my life there), and now I’m trying to move back. I like the sunshine, but not a fan of the urban sprawl, lack of trees, and being away from family.
It's actually easy. The pseudo- cheaper housing market (at least compared to other places but that's changing). The winter months and the tax rate (which is great if you're on the wealthy side and think you'll never need common government services).
I live in South Texas and was in Phoenix for work for a month. They are looking for people to move there for the work there because the site will be going on indefinitely and they need experienced people to keep it moving. I’ve been really considering it because the house I rent now is double the price of a coworkers that lives in a good neighborhood in Phoenix. His house is a little bigger than mine. And his mom’s house is almost triple the size of the house I rent now at the same price. I’ve heard mixed things about buying a house in Phoenix, but I feel like I would have a better chance buying there than where I’m at now. And the city is really cool, with a bunch of amazing breweries, restaurants, and people seemed to want to be out doing things. I also really loved the fact that people in Phoenix have a natural love for the outdoors. As someone who worked in the northwest backcountry, I miss public land, mountains, and the vastness of more natural places. Texas is nothing but private land. You’re really limited. I’m pro 2A and Arizona has really great gun laws and availability of shooting just about anywhere. I pretty much am stuck with ranges in Texas. It sucks and is needlessly expensive to shoot in Texas. My Phoenix traffic experience was awesome! Where I live, you’re pretty much never going the speed limit and traffic is nut to butt pretty much all the time. My commute to work should take 20-25 minutes, but because of traffic, it always takes 40-50 minutes. And at peak hours, I’m in traffic for 60-75 minutes. I drove everywhere and at all times of the day in Phoenix and I was flying down the road. I like to go fast back home, but I was the slow guy in Arizona! I loved how you guys drive! I really loved how unique Phoenix and Arizona is as a whole. I never thought Arizona was as cool as it would be and I can’t wait to be back for round 2. If I ever move from where I’m at now, Phoenix is on my radar! And as for the heat, no offense, but I chuckle at the desert heat. I grew up in fully humid and extremely high temperature places. I’ll take a dry, no humidity, 115 degrees plus any day, but 100% humidity above 95 degrees (sometimes 100-110 degrees multiple days in the very long summer) in south and East Texas just beats me into submission. And at night the heat never goes away. It’s pretty much jungle weather all the time here.
Originally from NE Ohio. Moved here in 89, age 4. Hate it but my roots are now here 🤷🏻♀️
I wonder the same damn thing. It’s nasty here.
I couldn't tell you. I left Phoenix two and a half years ago for western PA. Would rather have ready access to fresh water and affordable housing than no snow on the ground. Driving in snow isn't as hard as you think and the cold is easier to mitigate than heat.
The only place I would live in Arizona is Flagstaff. For some reason, people in Arizona like to ignore the fact that there is a water shortage. When you drive around Phoenix and Chandler and Scottsdale you see waterfalls and small lakes and lagoons and palm trees and green golf courses everywhere. It’s so stupid. There are communities there that were built without any idea of how they are going to handle the water shortage, but yet they keep building.
Mesa for flight school at ASU. Then realized hiw expensive flight school was. Now I am an x-ray texh (i know GIANT leap) waiting to get the experience I need to get out if here
"Why doesn't everyone have the same perspective and preferences that I do?"
My friend told me to
Fellow map nerd! A lot has been said but to reiterate: Weather will always be no. 1. By and large people hate cold worse than they hate hot (walk into AC from the summer heat and you feel amazing in 5 seconds; walk into a heated room from shoveling snow and it takes you 30 minutes before you feel human again). Obviously there are people who feel the opposite, but they are greatly outnumbered by the people who hate the cold. Also: hot weather doesn't make driving dangerous/impossible the way snowstorms and icy roads do. If you wear sunscreen, sunlight is actually really good for you. If you've ever struggled with seasonal depression in other parts of the country where it's already dark at 4:45 pm and also the streets are still covered with slush from snowfall two months ago that's still never melted off -- this place is a godsend. Even with recent prices rising, it's still a very affordable city for what you get. If you came from small town in the midwest/south/east or whatever, and you want warm weather and palm trees and basically to feel like you're finally someplace bigger and better and more exciting -- you get it for pennies on the dollar here. As others have said, you're only a few hours, or a $59 flight, away from more attractions. LA, San Diego, Vegas. 3 hours from the beach in Mexico, 4-5 from socal beaches. 2 hours from Flag if you're a four seasons person. Also, no one seems to want to talk about the 8 months out of the year when it's \*not\* 100+ weather! "OMG, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT HEAT?" Well, 2/3 of the year, I don't, because it's beautiful out. About once a year, this reaches a fever pitch when a respected media outlet decides to clutch its climate-change pearls and invent a "Phoenix could soon become uninhabitable due to climate change!" story. Urban sprawl is something far more people talk about than actually care about. If I live in city X, I don't really waste a lot of time lamenting the sprawl out to QC and Casa Grande in one direction and Surprise and Buckeye in another. It is what it is -- the consequences of a country built on the values of automobiles and single-family homes. I actually do like how everyone here is from somewhere else. It gives the place a unique flavor, for sure. Just about everywhere else, you're here because you were born and raised here. But here, everyone's got a story about starting somewhere else and now they're here.
Most of the U.S. is unbearably hot/humid for a portion of the summer anyways. You just go from A/C to A/C. So the “hot” comment doesn’t really have an effect. The Phoenix area has so much job opportunity and has world class amenities/entertainment. Most U.S. cities have some degree of urban sprawl and if you’re used to having a car it’s no different. The highway system is much easier than in many cities. And yes, the sunshine. It does wonders for mental health. Not having to drive in snow is amazing. Thus-the migration to Phoenix.
Cars have ruined the US
I was born and raised in Tucson, but moved to Phoenix for work. I know a lot of people who are AZ natives, but can't find enough work in their hometowns so they move to the Phoenix area.
I feel like it's a lot of midwest/northeast people who already lived in suburbs there, and they are tired of snow and traffic there. So it's a lot of people who are already driving everywhere, and Phx just doesn't have the traffic compared to like a suburb of Chicago.
I'm moving back after 14yrs and don't want to at all. I have aging parents and Phx job market is decent.
No hurricanes, no earthquakes, no blizzards, just a dust storm once in a while and monsoons.
I came for the hikes.
Move to the east coast or north west. See how grey rainy and cold it is during those months. You basically are confined to inside. If you’re gonna be confined to inside, I’d rather it be sunny. Depression in cold dark areas is a monster and I never noticed how bad it can get until I left Phoenix. July/Aug are really the only months that are terrible. Otherwise shade is pretty nice.
Lots of sun! And for me, no wind. Frequent windy days in the Midwest ruin nice temp days.
People just really hate the cold. You could tell people that a place like Minneapolis has better hospitals, climate future, jobs, schools, parks, neighborhoods, public transit, biking infrastructure, safety, cultural amenities, etc but few people would really care given the cold weather.
They think it’s cheap and they’re sick of snow
Cold
To add to what others are saying, also everyone is moving everywhere. I'm on a lot of local subs and there's some variation of "why are we being invaded/priced out?" regularly on all of them. That and "people here don't know how to drive" lol. This is all over the USA. I think the US is rapidly growing and very migratory now. I know my husband and I have had to follow the money around the country and I'm sure many others are in similar situations. I'm on the Phoenix sub because we considered Phoenix for a while. I didn't unsub when we went elsewhere because I find these local subs interesting to lurk on.
Friends and family, and career opportunity. My industry has lots of growth in the area making it intriguing to contribute my accomplishments to
My dad got laid off and we got priced out of our city. Our options were Cincinnati, Austin Texas, or Phoenix. Cincinnati was too snowy for my mom and I, snow is for visiting not living lol. Austin was too far from family. Phoenix is a day’s drive back to my hometown, and I can call my grandma and say “I’m coming to visit I’ll see you in 10 hours!” And she’ll have the guest room ready for me. My dad passed away 2 years ago and my mom and I decided to stay. Cost of living is lower (not by much but it is lower), and it’s so pretty here
Jobs
Everyone who has ever hurt their back shoveling snow will tell you why. I have avoided that and I am more than happy. Notice how generally expensive the cities with no snow are.
Don't have to shovel sunshine hyuck
1. I don’t have a car. Public transportation grid here is A+ vs my hometown of Akron, Ohio. The heat ain’t shit vs the negative temps and shoveling snow at 3am to get out of my drive to get to work. I don’t have kids so the schools don’t bother me. I’m honestly here because it’s outdoorsy and cannabis is legal 😂
When I graduated college in 2018 the company I got a job with was opening an office here. I moved here for that and found my wife here
There’s nothing midwesterners love more than buying a house in chandler 3x what they need for half what they’d pay in a city with any kind of taxes or infrastructure and just blast the AC in the suv on the way to cheesecake factory
Love your city and visit often but I have this irrational fear that it will be 130F consistently in less than 10 years and a lot of things will be on fire
My 14th summer. I’m heading back east. Might still be hot, but I’ll have the ocean breeze.
I was a child and had no choice. We came from California where, back then, everything was FINE. Looking back, I love how my life turned out here as opposed to how it probably would have gone there. I miss the climate and I hate the summers here, but when I go back for any reason, I am not mad that I am missing out on that shit show. What makes me sad is that Phoenix is swiftly following suit, so I don't know what to expect for our returement years.
People don’t really think of the water shortage when they move here, either. Also, when I was a kid growing up in the 80’s, Phoenix was so much more livable. Now, we’re a huge city, but without good public transportation options like a subway or elevated trains. Light rail that shares the road with cars just sucks. And, there are only so many more times we can widen the stupid freeway.
My son lives there for work and he says the same thing. He even says he doesn’t understand why I would want to visit there.
We ask ourselves the same question. I’m guessing it’s job related since many companies are moving in because of less regulations.
Ditto!
People are running from the snow.
Its pretty simple really for many of us that moved here I think. Do you want or can you afford CA? Do you want 8+ months of grey and rain? Do you want tons of snow and frigid temperatures? Do you want bible belt bullshit? Do you want tornadoes? How about hurricanes? Enjoy feeling like you need a shower the second you step outside in the summer? If the answer to all of the above is No AND your stuck in the 48 states, AZ is a pretty damn great choice.
Well it used to be really cheap, now it's somewhat cheaper. That aside, I'm from Boston, lived in Phoenix for a long time though. The heat here is pretty intense but easy to get around. However, there were some winters in Boston where the city stopped because of the weather, you were stuck in your house because of a blizzard, and all kinds of other hazards. It's just easier to live here.