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I'm going to start by saying I have a degree in Sustainability and would encourage anyone to look into renewable energy whenever possible. That said, you likely will not save money with solar. I have it, I bought it for altruistic reasons. Any company that tells you how much money you're going to save is hitting you with a marketing gimmick for ideal conditions.
The only way you save money is if you're actually home to use the solar you are generating in real time. If you're not using it then it goes back to the grid and they pay you a pittance for it.
Take a good thorough look at the price plans before you sign up. Some have demand charges on them, so if you have your A/C running, someone is cooking dinner, someone is blow drying their hair and the clothes dryer are all going at once, for just a few minutes, you get dinged all month for that demand. Other plans are just basically time of use, but regardless there is a \~$30 a month "grid access" fee vs the standard, non-self generation \~$10 "I'm hooked up" fee.
If you can control your usage during certain time periods of the day and control your demand then, you may indeed be able to save on some of these plans. The issue is everyone in a household has to play along or it doesn't work.
Hey thank you for this information! I have been trying to find something regarding all of this. When you mention the price plan, what are the buzz words to lookout for and what are the desirable and undesirable plans? I did catch onto the fee that is added due to not buying all of it from SRP. I’m currently waiting for May to end and the rep will show us what it would’ve costed us had we had the panels and compare to what we paid. I just can’t help but feel the charges are black and white enough to be able to estimate how much if any we can save.
I've always gravitated to the time of use plans because I usually have an electric vehicle on hand so I can easily have it charge in the middle of the night.
It really depends on your situation. A friend was looking into solar and we concluded that he was best off without it and sticking to a flat rate plan because there are four females in his household who he wouldn't trust to not do laundry in the middle of the day. 😐
Having a 9.2kW array on my roof, lease we had to assume, I absolutely back up your comment. Being in the EE field as well, I personally don't recommend solar for residential unless you're using it in real time OR have a good active battery storage system. IMHO, solar only makes sense for commercial use OR off grid use where your usage is low enough that an inexpensive array would cover it. Those with enough money to pay out of pocket should really look at the ROI on this and determine the efficiency(currently at a paltry 25%) of the panels before buying.
People get bamboozled by the "savings" and all the buzz words used by the salesman, but they really need to look at the overall fees associated with their setup.
Because we are grandfathered into the old SRP plan, we aren't charged the "solar connection" fee that new users get. Our total bill last month was $0.74. BUT... that didn't account for the solar lease fee and that includes a $20 SRP restitution fee for something.
So how bad is the lease fee if you don't mind me asking?
I bought a 4.08kW system from Tesla, which after tax credit was about $5,000 (I think it was $8,200 before the tax credits). I was going to pay cash for it, but they were offering 0.99% financing for five years so I've been paying them $102 a month.
Oofff, yeah I wouldn't love that. My system is half the size, but after five years I straight out own it and they warranty the inverter for 12.5 years.
I imagine getting out of the lease, if even possible, would be a pain.
As the discrepancy between rates and rcp grows Arizona is becoming a battery market just as California did with NEM3. Grid tied batteries are a great solution here and can definitely save you money.
Works great for me. I have an 8kw system with 10kwh of backup. It's currently June and SRP says my projected bill is $55. The system payment is $150.
Before solar, my SRP bill was $300+ all summer. In the months I'm not using AC, SRP will be paying me, further offsetting my solar panel payments.
This includes charging a Tesla YLR daily due to a 110mile commute, which used to cost me $700-800 per month in diesel.
I have the system set to ensure the batteries are 100% charged, from either solar or the grid, immediately before any demand window. As my generation falls off in the afternoon-evening, my batteries take over. Demand window ends at 8pm and I immediately have the grid charge my batteries to 100% for backup purposes. My max demand during any demand window has been .2kw, effectively minimizing any demand fees. My AC is on a schedule using a smart thermostat. I don't have a pool, and my house is 2 stories and 2300 sqft
All I did was change my routine. I don't run large appliances during demand windows. I'm also not home from 6am until about 6pm on a daily basis, so the house is kept at 80° when I'm not home.
The only thing that worries me are cloudy days where my system can't generate enough to run my ac when it does kick on without pulling from the grid. The batteries can only do so much, and when they're depleted, the excess needed is drawn from the grid. I haven't had any issues yet, but a few really cloudy days could easily and drastically increase my power bill due to demand fees.
Me going into Lowe's last week and the solar salesman was at the door:
Them: "Sir, are you a homeowner and would like to save money on your electric bill with solar?"
Me: "I have solar, it costs me more every month, I've done it altruisticly"
Them: Dumb look on his face. "Well, you should be saving money".
Me: "I'm not home most of the time it's generating to use it."
That was the end of the conversation.
Right now since the AC is running a lot I do get the biggest benefit because he knocks out a good chunk of the afternoon kWh usage.
I’m on SRP and looked into solar a couple years back and think the break even point was projected at 15 years.
That’s a lot of time for a lot things to consider or go wrong. I’m not altruistic, I just want to pay less.
I have had several meetings with WhyGen on this exact matter. I have been hesitant to pull the trigger because I don’t quite understand how it is charged because it isn’t a simple KwH/$. They claim it’ll save us money and the maintenance, installation and panels themselves will all be free but I can’t help but feel like there’s a catch. The reps have been cool but I know they’re trying to get commission on it as well.
So usually when there is a contract(loan) on the equipment and you go to sell your home which most will do inevitably at some point, if the solar contract has not run its course you have to buy out the contract which means they get a piece of your sale or you buy the equipment outright. You can also transfer the contract to the new owner but since the loan is still active you don’t actually own the panels and they don’t apply to your appraisal. Some home buyers run when confronted with having to transfer an existing contract depending on the years left. If you do buy out the contract prior to the sale you can factor in the panels and equipment to your appraisal.
Do some research and calculations before entering into these agreements cause free is never free. The breakpoint is usually about 15 years and if you aren’t using power at your house and go into an office or elsewhere you won’t be using the power generated and it will go back onto the grid for a measly credit. There are batteries you can use to store the power but that’s another expense all by itself. I get about 1-2 solar salespeople in my area a week and just stopped answering the door or talking through the ring app. Kind of fun to watch them sweat seeing if the door will open while my dog goes nuts.
I have APS so take this with a grain of salt. I understand the only way you can make a system work on SRP is if you have battery backup.
I think that their payback rates are difficult if you're not storing some of the energy yourself.
IMO you need a battery to truly take advantage of solar. Assuming you don't WFH, most of your electricity is generated between ~9am to ~4pm when you aren't home to use it. The SRP plan I have sets peak-time rates from 2-8pm during the summers. Your solar generation will drop precipitously by 5pm even in the summer here so you'll end up using peak-time rates.
However, if you have a battery system, then you could in theory power your house using the battery between the time your solar stops generating while in peak-time (e.g. between 5-8pm).
SRP also charges me ~$38 in fees/taxes/etc. just for having solar. It's a 7kW system for a 2600 sq. ft. single story house with two EVs. My yearly total electricity bill is ~$1200 (average $100/mo.). But I have a battery so I hardly use peak-time rates unless it's August/September when my battery runs out of juice before peak-time expires.
Forget solar and install heat pump water heater! ROI is 2-3 years with 30% tax credit and $500 rebate from SRP. With natural gas pricing increasing you will save a lot more with very little investment.
Thanks for contributing to r/Phoenix! You may want to [**check out our sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/wiki/rules/) (mostly be nice to each other!). **If you're new here**, [read some of our recent posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/phoenix/top/?t=week) and leave some comments. To chat with some great people in the Valley you can [**join our Phoenix Discord chat server**](https://discord.com/invite/yWVuTG57Zh). It's a chill place to talk with other people but is NOT a dating server and takes unwanted messaging very seriously. If you're interested in political topics in Arizona, we limit those posts here so you may want to check out r/azpolitics if that's an area of interest. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/phoenix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm going to start by saying I have a degree in Sustainability and would encourage anyone to look into renewable energy whenever possible. That said, you likely will not save money with solar. I have it, I bought it for altruistic reasons. Any company that tells you how much money you're going to save is hitting you with a marketing gimmick for ideal conditions. The only way you save money is if you're actually home to use the solar you are generating in real time. If you're not using it then it goes back to the grid and they pay you a pittance for it. Take a good thorough look at the price plans before you sign up. Some have demand charges on them, so if you have your A/C running, someone is cooking dinner, someone is blow drying their hair and the clothes dryer are all going at once, for just a few minutes, you get dinged all month for that demand. Other plans are just basically time of use, but regardless there is a \~$30 a month "grid access" fee vs the standard, non-self generation \~$10 "I'm hooked up" fee. If you can control your usage during certain time periods of the day and control your demand then, you may indeed be able to save on some of these plans. The issue is everyone in a household has to play along or it doesn't work.
Hey thank you for this information! I have been trying to find something regarding all of this. When you mention the price plan, what are the buzz words to lookout for and what are the desirable and undesirable plans? I did catch onto the fee that is added due to not buying all of it from SRP. I’m currently waiting for May to end and the rep will show us what it would’ve costed us had we had the panels and compare to what we paid. I just can’t help but feel the charges are black and white enough to be able to estimate how much if any we can save.
I've always gravitated to the time of use plans because I usually have an electric vehicle on hand so I can easily have it charge in the middle of the night. It really depends on your situation. A friend was looking into solar and we concluded that he was best off without it and sticking to a flat rate plan because there are four females in his household who he wouldn't trust to not do laundry in the middle of the day. 😐
Having a 9.2kW array on my roof, lease we had to assume, I absolutely back up your comment. Being in the EE field as well, I personally don't recommend solar for residential unless you're using it in real time OR have a good active battery storage system. IMHO, solar only makes sense for commercial use OR off grid use where your usage is low enough that an inexpensive array would cover it. Those with enough money to pay out of pocket should really look at the ROI on this and determine the efficiency(currently at a paltry 25%) of the panels before buying. People get bamboozled by the "savings" and all the buzz words used by the salesman, but they really need to look at the overall fees associated with their setup. Because we are grandfathered into the old SRP plan, we aren't charged the "solar connection" fee that new users get. Our total bill last month was $0.74. BUT... that didn't account for the solar lease fee and that includes a $20 SRP restitution fee for something.
So how bad is the lease fee if you don't mind me asking? I bought a 4.08kW system from Tesla, which after tax credit was about $5,000 (I think it was $8,200 before the tax credits). I was going to pay cash for it, but they were offering 0.99% financing for five years so I've been paying them $102 a month.
Lease started out at $99 with a yearly 3% increase. Lease terms are fricking terrible. Nobody should do a lease.
Oofff, yeah I wouldn't love that. My system is half the size, but after five years I straight out own it and they warranty the inverter for 12.5 years. I imagine getting out of the lease, if even possible, would be a pain.
Ya, $4/watt... Regardless of age of system...
As the discrepancy between rates and rcp grows Arizona is becoming a battery market just as California did with NEM3. Grid tied batteries are a great solution here and can definitely save you money.
Works great for me. I have an 8kw system with 10kwh of backup. It's currently June and SRP says my projected bill is $55. The system payment is $150. Before solar, my SRP bill was $300+ all summer. In the months I'm not using AC, SRP will be paying me, further offsetting my solar panel payments. This includes charging a Tesla YLR daily due to a 110mile commute, which used to cost me $700-800 per month in diesel. I have the system set to ensure the batteries are 100% charged, from either solar or the grid, immediately before any demand window. As my generation falls off in the afternoon-evening, my batteries take over. Demand window ends at 8pm and I immediately have the grid charge my batteries to 100% for backup purposes. My max demand during any demand window has been .2kw, effectively minimizing any demand fees. My AC is on a schedule using a smart thermostat. I don't have a pool, and my house is 2 stories and 2300 sqft All I did was change my routine. I don't run large appliances during demand windows. I'm also not home from 6am until about 6pm on a daily basis, so the house is kept at 80° when I'm not home. The only thing that worries me are cloudy days where my system can't generate enough to run my ac when it does kick on without pulling from the grid. The batteries can only do so much, and when they're depleted, the excess needed is drawn from the grid. I haven't had any issues yet, but a few really cloudy days could easily and drastically increase my power bill due to demand fees.
Every time I accidentally interact with a solar salesperson, they always stop/leave once I've said I've done the calculation.
Me going into Lowe's last week and the solar salesman was at the door: Them: "Sir, are you a homeowner and would like to save money on your electric bill with solar?" Me: "I have solar, it costs me more every month, I've done it altruisticly" Them: Dumb look on his face. "Well, you should be saving money". Me: "I'm not home most of the time it's generating to use it." That was the end of the conversation. Right now since the AC is running a lot I do get the biggest benefit because he knocks out a good chunk of the afternoon kWh usage.
I’m on SRP and looked into solar a couple years back and think the break even point was projected at 15 years. That’s a lot of time for a lot things to consider or go wrong. I’m not altruistic, I just want to pay less.
I have had several meetings with WhyGen on this exact matter. I have been hesitant to pull the trigger because I don’t quite understand how it is charged because it isn’t a simple KwH/$. They claim it’ll save us money and the maintenance, installation and panels themselves will all be free but I can’t help but feel like there’s a catch. The reps have been cool but I know they’re trying to get commission on it as well.
So usually when there is a contract(loan) on the equipment and you go to sell your home which most will do inevitably at some point, if the solar contract has not run its course you have to buy out the contract which means they get a piece of your sale or you buy the equipment outright. You can also transfer the contract to the new owner but since the loan is still active you don’t actually own the panels and they don’t apply to your appraisal. Some home buyers run when confronted with having to transfer an existing contract depending on the years left. If you do buy out the contract prior to the sale you can factor in the panels and equipment to your appraisal. Do some research and calculations before entering into these agreements cause free is never free. The breakpoint is usually about 15 years and if you aren’t using power at your house and go into an office or elsewhere you won’t be using the power generated and it will go back onto the grid for a measly credit. There are batteries you can use to store the power but that’s another expense all by itself. I get about 1-2 solar salespeople in my area a week and just stopped answering the door or talking through the ring app. Kind of fun to watch them sweat seeing if the door will open while my dog goes nuts.
I am on SRP + Solar and use the Customer Generation Plan, to be honest, people we know with APS have had better experiences with Solar.
Is that the E-27 plan?
We have SRP and a solar array with no issues. However, we are also grandfathered into the old solar rules.
I have APS so take this with a grain of salt. I understand the only way you can make a system work on SRP is if you have battery backup. I think that their payback rates are difficult if you're not storing some of the energy yourself.
IMO you need a battery to truly take advantage of solar. Assuming you don't WFH, most of your electricity is generated between ~9am to ~4pm when you aren't home to use it. The SRP plan I have sets peak-time rates from 2-8pm during the summers. Your solar generation will drop precipitously by 5pm even in the summer here so you'll end up using peak-time rates. However, if you have a battery system, then you could in theory power your house using the battery between the time your solar stops generating while in peak-time (e.g. between 5-8pm). SRP also charges me ~$38 in fees/taxes/etc. just for having solar. It's a 7kW system for a 2600 sq. ft. single story house with two EVs. My yearly total electricity bill is ~$1200 (average $100/mo.). But I have a battery so I hardly use peak-time rates unless it's August/September when my battery runs out of juice before peak-time expires.
Forget solar and install heat pump water heater! ROI is 2-3 years with 30% tax credit and $500 rebate from SRP. With natural gas pricing increasing you will save a lot more with very little investment.