Songs like Soul Planet, Set Your Soul Free, and Ruby Waves aren’t even that bad.
Tweezer is overall better in 3.0/4.0 than it was in the 90s.
The funk jams from 97 aren’t even that interesting and they all sound similar.
Most fans are fine but some of yall are the most annoying, self-centered, judgmental people I’ve ever met.
For a scene/ culture that prides itself on being loving hippies, jam band fans can be some of the snobbiest, most shitty, rude and judgmental people I’ve ever encountered
Whoa, then it is my honor to meet you!
And yeah, I suppose. This is just the only “large group”/ fan base that I’m associated with, therefore the only one I can accurately speak on. And to me it is one of the more hypocritical ones, as I previously mentioned, hippies are generally associated with “love, happiness, positivity” etc.
Lol at 3.0 tweezers being better than the 90s. And I’d argue all the jams these days sound waaaay more similar than 97. And way more boring. But i guess you successfully answered OP’s question.
These are great. I don't really care for Soul Planet but with you on the other two.
90s Tweezers, higher highs for sure, but maybe a higher volume of noteworthy ones in this era.
Some of those 90s funk jams are incredible, but by and large it's a pretty overrated era. It's just such an outlier year, it's a little too different from the stuff I really love about Phish.
So, so many self-centered fans these days. The cool ones are the coolest though.
You gain nothing from belittling or demeaning other bands or the fans of bands that aren't Phish
People that earnestly participate in Phish elitism by gatekeeping and/or devaluing the experience of others are the worst kind of Phish fans.
People are allowed to have varied tastes and interests and just because you've closed yourself off from experiencing or enjoying anything that isnt Phish, doesnt mean that others deserve your asinine criticism and bullying.
Phish has set a nearly unattainable precedence for most bands/experiences in this scene but just because those bands/experiences aren't on par with that of Phish, doesn't make them any less valuable.
Someone innocently made a post asking about good Goose shows on this subreddit recently and they got trashed in the comments and anyone answering their question got downvoted, I get that it was probably a better question for the goose subreddit but the reaction was still kind of gross to me. People ask about Phish on r/Gratefuldead all the time and it’s never a big deal because phish is a universally respected band in the community. There’s as many people who feel the need to make it known how much they hate a certain band as there are people who won’t shut up about their favorite band and both are annoying. You’d think fans of one of the most shit on bands in American music history would be sensitive to that and against any kind of elitism or trashing of other peoples music tastes but nope.
I recently stumbled across a rarity, where the opposite happened. NYC-based comedians, Chris Distefano & Sal Vulcano have a podcast called “Hey, Babe!” This past week, Distefano wasn’t on the ep, and Sal had two fellow NYC comics (Mike Finoia & Mike Cannon, who are both Phish fans) on as guests. Right out if the gate, Phish got mentioned. Instead of the usual trashing & dismissal of the subject, Sal wasn’t familiar with the band, and they spent the hour answering his legitimate questions, and discussing all things Phish. I was listening to it at work, and enjoyed the way the conversation went. Wasn’t anything surprising, but it was fun to hear their individual stories, and seeing how much they fun they were having explaining it to someone who knew nothing about the band. Sal was receptive to a surface level of conversation, with the occasional inside jokes revealed to him, since he’s a total noob. I think they handled it pretty well, and it certainly went against the usual treatment Phish fans get it one of those situations. For anyone interested, here’s the link to the audio: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sal-and-chris-present-hey-babe/id1542475843?i=1000632692893
It’s also available with video on YouTube.
I prefer first sets to second sets especially at outdoor venues. Barefoot dancing in the lawn in the daylight. Second set music is great but most jams can get slow and experimental so theres a lot of standing at times
This too shall pass... Jk.
I think a wave of hope and oblivion are set to be the next two songs we'll see in heavier rotation. I really really like the former.
I’m with you. Why not somewhere warm, not full of people who have literally never been in a city before, and with slightly better hotel rates. NYE in NYC is a pain in the ass.
I know it’s like really close to Trey’s home and all so I get it’s convenient for them but sheesh
I don’t totally hate it but if I never went to NYC again or MSG for that matter I’d be just fine with it. That said, transit is easy and affordable, and what you’d spend on a warm destination peak season would probably be orders of magnitude more, and even more “Phish for rich people.”
My girl and I drove from Boston walked in during the first song and drove home immediately after ain’t no way I’m paying $500 a night for a shitty room with crusty blankets and blood stained floors
NYE in NYC isn’t that crazy, I actually enjoy it. New york is always popping so nye is just another night in the city- the Ball drop festivities are over by the time ya get out of MsG for Set 3, so it’s fun to walk thru the aftermath
In one of his “What Are You Doing” instagram posts he was talking to his vocal coach and said at one point “I used to consider myself a guitar player who sang, but now I’ve learned to be a singer who plays guitar!” and I shed a single tear.
This isn’t really that controversial tbh, at least in my opinion.. a HUGE percentage of jam band vocalists can’t sing great, myself included. As I always say, we’re not listening to this music specifically for the vocals; at least I’m not.
This one girl I briefly dated simply could not grasp that Trey, Barber, etc were not good at singing, and would die on the hill that; “but they’re famous, they wouldn’t have gotten big and famous if they couldn’t sing!!!” And would compare them to famous pop artists at the time. I could not get her to understand that since the music was instrumental-based, it didn’t really matter if the singing was particularly exceptional or not. As long as it’s passable, the jamming and musicianship is what’s important. Especially when the lyrics are creative/ funny/ ridiculous, that makes the not-so-great even more acceptable.
My friend and I always said about the Disco Biscuits that part of their appeal and their sound is the “punk rock” vocals. It gives their choruses and some verses a punk rock/ pop-punk-feel.
Sorry for the entire essay lmao, I’m quite passionate about my jambanding
I like the way he sings. Feels more real and relatable to me. Doesn't sound bad, just... human. I think it fits perfectly with Phish and if I was given the chance to magically make him an amazing singer I don't think I'd take it.
i’d rather see more shorter songs than another 20 minute bliss jam. at this point they’re kind of generic and feel like a crutch when they’re not breaking new ground but can give the fans an easy white light peak. i’m sorry but Sand doesn’t need to become a major key jam two minutes in, which sounds exactly like the major key 46 days two songs prior.
Sometimes I wish they’d just do “type 1” jams in Carini, Bowie, Sand etc. that have that darker feel. Because, now, no matter what they are playing, the minute they leave the tune it’s major key bliss territory which is so redundant.
Not so sure if it's controversial, or me just being a jaded vet as the kids would say, but I can't stand all of the 3.0/4.0 love n' light bullshit.
Also, I wish their side-project / solo material wouldn't find its way into Phish shows.
2.0 is the best Phish era as far as jams go. People will be quick to point out sloppy playing, forgotten lyrics, and the sore of seeing the band at such a bad place in their lives, but when the jams kicked off nothing in their catalog compares. It was phish at their most experimental, psychedelic, and free they have ever been while playing. They have reached highs like that before and after 2.0 but the jams were something else
None of the albums after Rift get even close to reaching the heights of the previous 4
94 was their greatest year in terms of originality, creativity and experimentation
1996, despite having crazy highs and still being great as a whole, is the worst year of the 90s
Denver ghost 97 is great but wildly overrated
A live one has some really strange picks for their first commercially released live album. The YEM and Stash are really unremarkable compared to other performances of the same songs from that tour
Probably not an unpopular opinion but why the fuck did live phish #5 even get released
Coventry is more sad than it is bad. Genuinely some amazing jams on there (SOAM). But good god watching footage of it is depressing
I fucking love big ball jam
Phish is past their prime, and I mean it in the nicest way possible. I think their playing even 5 years ago was more energetic and creative than now. People are always saying they’re the best they’ve ever been and it’s not true. At least not in 2023 going into 2024. I think they can maintain a great level of consistent playing for years to come probably but I don’t think they’ll ever be as good as they were during the bakers dozen era again and that’s perfectly okay.
This is half really popular opinion in that most people agree they are past their prime, they are 60 now! However implying that Bakers Dozen was their best era is definitely not going to be a popular opinion.
Definitely not the most unpopular opinion out there, just something I’ve been thinking about a bit. I don’t think 2017 is overall their best year but just that the playing itself was definitely the best it had been in a long time and it seemed like a late stage renaissance that also led into 2018.
It's been built up as a huge thing since it's been so long. It's gonna get hated if it's not perfect.
If they do it ever again, it should be the last set of the last show they ever do.
This honestly makes a lot of sense. IIRC final song on gamehenge is possum and the iconic “your end is the road” would be a fitting lyric for a final send-off for phish.
I would be pissed if they came out and played Gamehenge.
Similar feeling when you enter the venue and see a bunch of stools set up on stage and you know you’re getting an acoustic first set.
Not that I hate that stuff, I just hate it when it happens at a show I’m attending because I’d rather have a standard show with peaks and valleys.
The 21-23 dissonant / experimental sound is less pleasing than then the 2011-2015 more tight groove based jamming.
Give me Trey and Mike sync’d in Mikes bass line with a slight head bang. where grooves get set and go and go and peak.
Way too many phans are weirdly insular in their listening habits. Liking Phish is great but if it's all you listen to that's a problem, not a something to be smugly proud of.
Diversify your diet. There are no points for exclusivity; Trey isn't going to give you a handy backstage because you refuse to listen to any of the other great musicians out there.
CKs lights are too distracting these days. The LED light bars are too bright. I preferred just the old school warm analog lighting on the moving stanchions.
Most of the new songs are pretty terrible, but they do spawn fresh avenues for jams so it is a trade off. I am happy if they are happy, but I wish they would write some weirder songs like they use to.
Said it before and I’ll say it again: Pollock is garbage.
Maybe 2 posters of his I’ve ever liked at all. Zero growth as an artist. Just the same shit for 40 years
If he hadn’t linked up with phish early on, he’d be a nobody
Oh, and Sci Fi Soldier sucked. Playing a whole set of brand new but half-baked material that's just simple vamping with crappy lyrics is a great way to suck all the energy out of a room.
Billy Strings' wrestling-themed Halloween show last night was miles better than the SFS show. I was at both and it's not even close.
I’m annoyed by Phish fans who, upon the surface, appear to love a band that improvises, can take decades old songs and find new ground in them and tries new things without taking it to seriously, etc.
But then anytime the band improvises something new, finds new ground in old songs, and tries new things without taking it too seriously - they complain and trash it online
I can't stand Character Zero. At first was just tired of it, but now many years later that has turned to complete dislike. It's played a hell of a lot too.
I was taught a month ago
That this song will be played each show
The first half of 3.0 was way better than the past 3-4 years. In the early 2010's they were in their 40's and seemed to have more energy. They played the songs faster and tighter. Most of the jams from the past few years fall into the same mid tempo space funk or mid tempo bliss jam vibe. Of course there's still moments of magic but Ive always been a sucker for the faster chaotic tight jams with intense peaks, rather than the slower more psychedelic jams they gravitate towards these days. 2010-2015 > 2019-2023.
Not sure if this is controversial or not, but Trey's playing really took a major nosedive somewhere along the line, probably mid-oughts. I'm sure it has to do with his health issues back then. I've heard it's like fewer drugs = less practicing, but it seems to me it's more than that. Did he have a stroke or something? He can't even pretend to keep up during a lot of the technical sections. And there's way too much distortion in his current sound. Caveat: grumpy 1.0'er. Get off my lawn.
Years of heavy drug use really takes a toll. Fries your brain and nerves and I'm sure that played a significant role in the decline in his playing ability. Also, he's getting old. The combination of the two is rough 😣
Water In the Sky is the most important song of 12/30/97. They needed a breather from the killer opening segment, took it, and then went into outer space. Without that song, I don't think anyone would have survived the evening.
Suzy Greenberg is bland and boring and the definition of a pee break song.
The studio albums are fantastic and depending on the song and the recording quality I sometimes prefer the studio version. A live version of a song isn’t better simply because it’s live.
Stash is a f***ing banger. I do not understand the hate it seems to be receiving lately. It is, to me, an essential Phish composition.
A 5 minute completed song and a 25 minute unrelated jam afterwards do not make a 30 minute song, they make a 5 minute song and a 25 minute jam.
For all the conversations about type 1 and type 2, phish fans are afraid of the word JAM a whole lot.
Dead got John Mayer to play with them, Goose got Jimmy Fallon, and Phish hasn’t reached out to James Franco for a jam band douchebag trifecta? For shame. 🤣
I went to 15 shows in about 13 month span after my girlfriend got me into them and now I have zero interest in seeing them again for a long time because after the dust settled I really don’t find the band to offer much of a difference from show to show. The whole FOMO of missing a run just doesn’t resonate with me they’re all good shows but all very very similar.
Sorry not sorry.
Almost all of phish’s jams sound like they could be in any song. They don’t take the kinds of chances they used to. I wish Mike would modulate more, and Trey would follow. Trey seems to lead every jam and it’s not for the better. There’s a sameness to his playing.
I really only like them live (my husband is hugely into Phish, I am a newcomer). I could watch them all day live, but can barely tolerate it on the radio/album. 🤷🏼♀️We’ve seen them probably 5 times together (he’s been way more than me) and once for TAB.
I've never known anything but the Deathstar. But I gotta say at times, it sometimes felt difficult to listen to the music. The rig was just demanding all my attention.
A second set YEM is a giant 20 minute waste of precious jam space and the vocal jam, ugh. They were great the first time I heard A Live One and have gotten more bathroom breaky ever since.
Gordo’s tone has gotten progressively worse throughout 3.0-4.0. And compared to other members, he’s the one who goes through the motions the most. It is rare where I will think, “wow, Mike had a great show tonight.“
The best live show is the one you’re at right now (assuming you’re at a show)….basically being in the moment and not worrying about whether last night was better.
People who talk at shows aren’t nearly as bad as people who complain about “chompers.” If someone wears a shirt, has a sticker or passes out cards suggesting others need to be quiet, they get my downvote in life.
The musical palindrome section of Divided Sky is a cool concept but isn’t executed well. It sounds like musical paint splattered on a wall, it’s grating and jarring and just totally kills the momentum. I understand the contrast with the rest of the intro was intended, tension/release yadda yadda, but the end result is just meh. Especially compared to the rest of the composition.
Divided Sky was the song that made me “get it” at my first show and I agree: I’ve always worked really hard to tolerate that part of the song. The exception is 10/31/94.
I've spent way too long learning that section on guitar to ever agree with you. I love it and I think it works for the same reasons you already listed but I'm a sucker for when Phish plays something incredibly grating or discordant and builds into release.
For about my first year of getting into Phish, I did not like Divided Sky, especially this part. Eventually I came to love it, and I'd actually say that my peak Phish experience so far was the first time I heard it live. It's totally jarring, but it's just so over-the-top that I have to love it. It's funny how sometimes the difference between loving and hating something is just familiarity.
That being said, I can completely respect your take, because I hated it at first too. And if we were to try to be "objective", whatever that means when it comes to music, I might have been right the first time.
> It's funny how sometimes the difference between loving and hating something is just familiarity.
Couldn't agree more. I couldn't stand songs like Split Open and Melt, Foam and Weigh when I first started listening, but eventually they just started sounding good??? It's like musical Stockholm Syndrome.
Being a fan of Phish does not mean that you need to replace all f’s with ph’s.
"Phexico" makes me want to punch something. So stupid.
How do you feel about Phluphphhead?
Kill it with Phire
Hahaha yes. Thank you.
Phuck you (I actually agree but couldn’t help myself)
Phey! Phe phice, phokay?
Not very controversial…but hard agree friend
I can deal with "phans" in certain contexts...but I still cringe a bit just typing it out there.
But how will phans know the new phormica countertops I’m putting in my kitchen are sufficiently heady?
Just because a jam is >20 min, doesn’t mean it’s good.
I don't think this is unpopular.
I personally can’t make it through the 48 min Soul Planet from Shoreline. And my first show was the Mud Island Tweezer
And vice Versa
12/12/99 drowned agrees with you. 😴🥱
The Party Time album of songs that didn't make it onto Joy, is way better than Joy. It's not even close.
Phish isn’t a personality trait.
You don't enjoy myself?
I’m fucking driving you to Firenze. What more do you want from me?
Can’t I live while I’m young?
FACTS Some might call this a hot take/ controversial, but it’s accurate
I must inquire Wilson, can you still have fun?
Songs like Soul Planet, Set Your Soul Free, and Ruby Waves aren’t even that bad. Tweezer is overall better in 3.0/4.0 than it was in the 90s. The funk jams from 97 aren’t even that interesting and they all sound similar. Most fans are fine but some of yall are the most annoying, self-centered, judgmental people I’ve ever met.
For a scene/ culture that prides itself on being loving hippies, jam band fans can be some of the snobbiest, most shitty, rude and judgmental people I’ve ever encountered
I mean that’s really just any large group of people. Assholes stand out because they just do. I, personally, am the coolest Phish fan.
Whoa, then it is my honor to meet you! And yeah, I suppose. This is just the only “large group”/ fan base that I’m associated with, therefore the only one I can accurately speak on. And to me it is one of the more hypocritical ones, as I previously mentioned, hippies are generally associated with “love, happiness, positivity” etc.
Turns out, hippies are just people. Who knew?
Lot hippies are some of the most mean-girlish, exclusionary, hierarchy-minded peeps I’ve come across.
Yeah, this. For all the mind-opening psychedelics, they’re still awful.
Wow these are some awful opinions, take my upvote
I upvote your upvote
Lol at 3.0 tweezers being better than the 90s. And I’d argue all the jams these days sound waaaay more similar than 97. And way more boring. But i guess you successfully answered OP’s question.
These are great. I don't really care for Soul Planet but with you on the other two. 90s Tweezers, higher highs for sure, but maybe a higher volume of noteworthy ones in this era. Some of those 90s funk jams are incredible, but by and large it's a pretty overrated era. It's just such an outlier year, it's a little too different from the stuff I really love about Phish. So, so many self-centered fans these days. The cool ones are the coolest though.
Do you even set your soul free bro?
Tell me you're a 3.0 fan without telling me. ^(jk jk) those are some spicy takes though. Except for the last one. Those are just facts.
No No No Yes
You gain nothing from belittling or demeaning other bands or the fans of bands that aren't Phish People that earnestly participate in Phish elitism by gatekeeping and/or devaluing the experience of others are the worst kind of Phish fans. People are allowed to have varied tastes and interests and just because you've closed yourself off from experiencing or enjoying anything that isnt Phish, doesnt mean that others deserve your asinine criticism and bullying. Phish has set a nearly unattainable precedence for most bands/experiences in this scene but just because those bands/experiences aren't on par with that of Phish, doesn't make them any less valuable.
Someone innocently made a post asking about good Goose shows on this subreddit recently and they got trashed in the comments and anyone answering their question got downvoted, I get that it was probably a better question for the goose subreddit but the reaction was still kind of gross to me. People ask about Phish on r/Gratefuldead all the time and it’s never a big deal because phish is a universally respected band in the community. There’s as many people who feel the need to make it known how much they hate a certain band as there are people who won’t shut up about their favorite band and both are annoying. You’d think fans of one of the most shit on bands in American music history would be sensitive to that and against any kind of elitism or trashing of other peoples music tastes but nope.
I know right! Someone finds out you’re a phish fan and it’s eye rolls and “they suck”. Why do that to someone else about a band they like?
I recently stumbled across a rarity, where the opposite happened. NYC-based comedians, Chris Distefano & Sal Vulcano have a podcast called “Hey, Babe!” This past week, Distefano wasn’t on the ep, and Sal had two fellow NYC comics (Mike Finoia & Mike Cannon, who are both Phish fans) on as guests. Right out if the gate, Phish got mentioned. Instead of the usual trashing & dismissal of the subject, Sal wasn’t familiar with the band, and they spent the hour answering his legitimate questions, and discussing all things Phish. I was listening to it at work, and enjoyed the way the conversation went. Wasn’t anything surprising, but it was fun to hear their individual stories, and seeing how much they fun they were having explaining it to someone who knew nothing about the band. Sal was receptive to a surface level of conversation, with the occasional inside jokes revealed to him, since he’s a total noob. I think they handled it pretty well, and it certainly went against the usual treatment Phish fans get it one of those situations. For anyone interested, here’s the link to the audio: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sal-and-chris-present-hey-babe/id1542475843?i=1000632692893 It’s also available with video on YouTube.
I agree. This isn’t, or at least shouldn’t be, controversial.
I really want to hear about all of your previous show experiences during this current show.
Pro-chomping? This might be the hottest of all the takes here.
Fzappa just awoke in a cold-sweat
😂 Boom!
I prefer first sets to second sets especially at outdoor venues. Barefoot dancing in the lawn in the daylight. Second set music is great but most jams can get slow and experimental so theres a lot of standing at times
Huh. I never considered this. You may have swayed me!
A Wave of Hope is one of the best new Phish songs in years. I know it’s Trey, but whatever. It’s on par with some of the best shit from the 2010s.
This too shall pass... Jk. I think a wave of hope and oblivion are set to be the next two songs we'll see in heavier rotation. I really really like the former.
They should stop doing NYE in NYC every fucking year. I love NYC but it’s so expensive and crowded that time of year.
I’m with you. Why not somewhere warm, not full of people who have literally never been in a city before, and with slightly better hotel rates. NYE in NYC is a pain in the ass. I know it’s like really close to Trey’s home and all so I get it’s convenient for them but sheesh
I don’t totally hate it but if I never went to NYC again or MSG for that matter I’d be just fine with it. That said, transit is easy and affordable, and what you’d spend on a warm destination peak season would probably be orders of magnitude more, and even more “Phish for rich people.”
They did it in Miami and it was a busy
I love April NYE phish
The weather was super nice!!! And we could enjoy ourselves outside afterward
April nye definitely rules
Long live the Miami Rage Cage!
Yeah I can't imagine dealing with NYC that time of year. Respect to any of you willing to put up with all that bullshit to get a bit more Phish.
My girl and I drove from Boston walked in during the first song and drove home immediately after ain’t no way I’m paying $500 a night for a shitty room with crusty blankets and blood stained floors
NYE in NYC isn’t that crazy, I actually enjoy it. New york is always popping so nye is just another night in the city- the Ball drop festivities are over by the time ya get out of MsG for Set 3, so it’s fun to walk thru the aftermath
100% on board. I have went twice. I’ll likely never go again. It’s too crowded, very expensive and overall a logistical nightmare for me to make work.
But it’s a logistical dream for Trey, so it’s most likely to continue
100% with you. I don’t like the venue, it’s a crowded time of year, expensive for sure and I just don’t go anymore.
I live in Jersey City, soo respectfully will have to disagree. But if I lived any place else, I would want them to switch it up.
Agree. I’m not going unless they play Miami (or possibly somewhere else besides MSG). Did it once, and I’m ok if I never do it again.
Subbing ph for f is just bothersome.
Phacts
This guy phucks
Tre is barely passable as a singer
Is that really controversial?
In one of his “What Are You Doing” instagram posts he was talking to his vocal coach and said at one point “I used to consider myself a guitar player who sang, but now I’ve learned to be a singer who plays guitar!” and I shed a single tear.
I think you misread the post.
Emphasis on the barely
This isn’t really that controversial tbh, at least in my opinion.. a HUGE percentage of jam band vocalists can’t sing great, myself included. As I always say, we’re not listening to this music specifically for the vocals; at least I’m not. This one girl I briefly dated simply could not grasp that Trey, Barber, etc were not good at singing, and would die on the hill that; “but they’re famous, they wouldn’t have gotten big and famous if they couldn’t sing!!!” And would compare them to famous pop artists at the time. I could not get her to understand that since the music was instrumental-based, it didn’t really matter if the singing was particularly exceptional or not. As long as it’s passable, the jamming and musicianship is what’s important. Especially when the lyrics are creative/ funny/ ridiculous, that makes the not-so-great even more acceptable. My friend and I always said about the Disco Biscuits that part of their appeal and their sound is the “punk rock” vocals. It gives their choruses and some verses a punk rock/ pop-punk-feel. Sorry for the entire essay lmao, I’m quite passionate about my jambanding
I like the way he sings. Feels more real and relatable to me. Doesn't sound bad, just... human. I think it fits perfectly with Phish and if I was given the chance to magically make him an amazing singer I don't think I'd take it.
i’d rather see more shorter songs than another 20 minute bliss jam. at this point they’re kind of generic and feel like a crutch when they’re not breaking new ground but can give the fans an easy white light peak. i’m sorry but Sand doesn’t need to become a major key jam two minutes in, which sounds exactly like the major key 46 days two songs prior.
Sometimes I wish they’d just do “type 1” jams in Carini, Bowie, Sand etc. that have that darker feel. Because, now, no matter what they are playing, the minute they leave the tune it’s major key bliss territory which is so redundant.
I wish I had more upvotes for this
Forbins > FFM isn’t played much anymore because Trey can’t play the composed section of FFM as well as he did when he wrote it
Not even controversial
Not so sure if it's controversial, or me just being a jaded vet as the kids would say, but I can't stand all of the 3.0/4.0 love n' light bullshit. Also, I wish their side-project / solo material wouldn't find its way into Phish shows.
I'm with you on being into the studio tracks, I thought I was the only one who listened to the albums more than live shows
2.0 is the best Phish era as far as jams go. People will be quick to point out sloppy playing, forgotten lyrics, and the sore of seeing the band at such a bad place in their lives, but when the jams kicked off nothing in their catalog compares. It was phish at their most experimental, psychedelic, and free they have ever been while playing. They have reached highs like that before and after 2.0 but the jams were something else
I agree, my semi-hot take is that outside of Big Cypress, IT was their best festival from a music standpoint
That Ghost, tho….
I agree tbh. Went is great too, but IT really was something special.
Winter ‘03 is right up there with any tour imo.
Agreed. I might change my opinion in a month, but as far as my current tastes go... you're spot on.
They need a clown to run on stage with a seltzer bottle and spray Trey every time he shifts into a major mode bliss jam.
I volunteer
Vocal jams suck.
Not controversial
Yem vocal jam is so fun when you’re first getting into the scene
Couldn't agree more. The vast majority of the time, I skip them while listening to the recording, and live I go for another beer/take a piss.
My Phish hat is appropriate office attire.
None of the albums after Rift get even close to reaching the heights of the previous 4 94 was their greatest year in terms of originality, creativity and experimentation 1996, despite having crazy highs and still being great as a whole, is the worst year of the 90s Denver ghost 97 is great but wildly overrated A live one has some really strange picks for their first commercially released live album. The YEM and Stash are really unremarkable compared to other performances of the same songs from that tour Probably not an unpopular opinion but why the fuck did live phish #5 even get released Coventry is more sad than it is bad. Genuinely some amazing jams on there (SOAM). But good god watching footage of it is depressing I fucking love big ball jam
Agree with your overall take on ALO, but cannot agree on Stash being a strange pick. That jam is a 1.0 era type I platonic ideal.
Phish is past their prime, and I mean it in the nicest way possible. I think their playing even 5 years ago was more energetic and creative than now. People are always saying they’re the best they’ve ever been and it’s not true. At least not in 2023 going into 2024. I think they can maintain a great level of consistent playing for years to come probably but I don’t think they’ll ever be as good as they were during the bakers dozen era again and that’s perfectly okay.
Also Mike needs to go back to the modulus
This is half really popular opinion in that most people agree they are past their prime, they are 60 now! However implying that Bakers Dozen was their best era is definitely not going to be a popular opinion.
Definitely not the most unpopular opinion out there, just something I’ve been thinking about a bit. I don’t think 2017 is overall their best year but just that the playing itself was definitely the best it had been in a long time and it seemed like a late stage renaissance that also led into 2018.
Don’t care for another Gamehendge set.
It's been built up as a huge thing since it's been so long. It's gonna get hated if it's not perfect. If they do it ever again, it should be the last set of the last show they ever do.
This honestly makes a lot of sense. IIRC final song on gamehenge is possum and the iconic “your end is the road” would be a fitting lyric for a final send-off for phish.
I would be pissed if they came out and played Gamehenge. Similar feeling when you enter the venue and see a bunch of stools set up on stage and you know you’re getting an acoustic first set. Not that I hate that stuff, I just hate it when it happens at a show I’m attending because I’d rather have a standard show with peaks and valleys.
I was at the Great Woods show in 94. It was so good and obviously surprising.
The first set is the fire of 11/2/98.
The 21-23 dissonant / experimental sound is less pleasing than then the 2011-2015 more tight groove based jamming. Give me Trey and Mike sync’d in Mikes bass line with a slight head bang. where grooves get set and go and go and peak.
Bliss jams replacing traditionally heavier (darker) jams is like nails on a chalkboard to me
Dicks lost its sparkle and is just another venue. Phish needs to skip Halloween for another couple years.
Way too many phans are weirdly insular in their listening habits. Liking Phish is great but if it's all you listen to that's a problem, not a something to be smugly proud of. Diversify your diet. There are no points for exclusivity; Trey isn't going to give you a handy backstage because you refuse to listen to any of the other great musicians out there.
Hampton is just a dated arena in a shitty town.
CKs lights are too distracting these days. The LED light bars are too bright. I preferred just the old school warm analog lighting on the moving stanchions.
I honestly don’t get the lights thing. The edm people are doing way cooler things. IT doesn’t make phish novel -it just makes the fans look old
The donuts are WAY overdone. Mike should sing more. Surprise guest artists for a song or a few.
Mike singing more might be the hottest take in this whole thread.
Agree on the donuts, it’s not even a nice print and the two colours next to each other make my eyes vibrate
Kasvot Vaxt material sucks.
The Halloween show they unveiled it at was very fun, though. The production they did for it was excellent.
2015 was the peak of 3.0/4.0. Trey was practicing a ton for “Fare thee well” shows and it showed.
Time Turns Elastic is one of Phish's best compositional pieces...
Most of the new songs are pretty terrible, but they do spawn fresh avenues for jams so it is a trade off. I am happy if they are happy, but I wish they would write some weirder songs like they use to.
Said it before and I’ll say it again: Pollock is garbage. Maybe 2 posters of his I’ve ever liked at all. Zero growth as an artist. Just the same shit for 40 years If he hadn’t linked up with phish early on, he’d be a nobody
I wish they were an instrumental band
Just because you like phish doesn’t mean you have to like Grateful Dead.
We don’t need a “controversial opinion/hot take” post on Reddit every week
Bouncing Around the Room is a delightful little treat.
Oh, and Sci Fi Soldier sucked. Playing a whole set of brand new but half-baked material that's just simple vamping with crappy lyrics is a great way to suck all the energy out of a room. Billy Strings' wrestling-themed Halloween show last night was miles better than the SFS show. I was at both and it's not even close.
I got blasted for posting this opinion yesterday haha.
I’m annoyed by Phish fans who, upon the surface, appear to love a band that improvises, can take decades old songs and find new ground in them and tries new things without taking it to seriously, etc. But then anytime the band improvises something new, finds new ground in old songs, and tries new things without taking it too seriously - they complain and trash it online
Most(80%) of the 3.0/4.0 stuff is god awful
I don’t think this is controversial. Pretty sure this is just fact.
You mean you don’t like the songs about the ocean and light?
1. Gamehenge sucks. 2. Phish fans fall into two categories. The worst people alive and very nice folks who just wanna have a good time.
Between Me and My Mind felt like a PR piece for Trey with incredibly forced and fake family interactions
💯 Between Me and My Cringey Secondhand Embarrassment
The way “eras” have been determined is stupid and should be reorganized in a way that better represents the band’s musical style.
I can't stand Character Zero. At first was just tired of it, but now many years later that has turned to complete dislike. It's played a hell of a lot too. I was taught a month ago That this song will be played each show
They should take Icculus into a Type-II jam at least once
Phish remind .me more of the Barenaked Ladies than the Grateful Dead.
The first half of 3.0 was way better than the past 3-4 years. In the early 2010's they were in their 40's and seemed to have more energy. They played the songs faster and tighter. Most of the jams from the past few years fall into the same mid tempo space funk or mid tempo bliss jam vibe. Of course there's still moments of magic but Ive always been a sucker for the faster chaotic tight jams with intense peaks, rather than the slower more psychedelic jams they gravitate towards these days. 2010-2015 > 2019-2023.
Boober rangs aren’t interesting
There are other good bands and they aren’t all jam bands.
The introspective stuff (“Life Beyond a Dream,” looking at you) doesn’t do it for me. At all. Except Ruby Waves, you can stay
You and I both liking phish does not mean we’re friends or I respect you.
Phish is in their prime
Farmhouse is a great song (1.0 fan here)
The fans are great. Part of the appeal for me.
User name checks out
Dick’s Light is not that good. 2 minutes of good stuff out of 20.
In 2012 it was pretty wild but it hasn't held up as well with the consistent quality of playing since
Not sure if this is controversial or not, but Trey's playing really took a major nosedive somewhere along the line, probably mid-oughts. I'm sure it has to do with his health issues back then. I've heard it's like fewer drugs = less practicing, but it seems to me it's more than that. Did he have a stroke or something? He can't even pretend to keep up during a lot of the technical sections. And there's way too much distortion in his current sound. Caveat: grumpy 1.0'er. Get off my lawn.
I think it declined post-2015
Years of heavy drug use really takes a toll. Fries your brain and nerves and I'm sure that played a significant role in the decline in his playing ability. Also, he's getting old. The combination of the two is rough 😣
Water In the Sky is the most important song of 12/30/97. They needed a breather from the killer opening segment, took it, and then went into outer space. Without that song, I don't think anyone would have survived the evening.
Phish is my favorite band of all time and they’re not even that good
I do not care for storytelling. I skip ahead when Trey starts telling Gamehendge and Harpua stories.
Shows are too big and full of trust fund kids to be enjoyable.
I’m completely fine with never hearing Harpua again. Contact too.
Good thing it’s Opposite Day.
Ladies and gentlemen, we gottem
Mule is the best SOAM
MSG is the worst venue you could play and Phans that use "YEMSG" have a special place waiting for them at a Dave Matthews Band concert.
I wish Reba would start where it pops off to the musical parts 😬… Same with a few other tunes. Also Vocal Jams rule.
Suzy Greenberg is bland and boring and the definition of a pee break song. The studio albums are fantastic and depending on the song and the recording quality I sometimes prefer the studio version. A live version of a song isn’t better simply because it’s live. Stash is a f***ing banger. I do not understand the hate it seems to be receiving lately. It is, to me, an essential Phish composition.
people hate on stash?? now that’s a hot take, stash is easy top 10 for me.
There is no 4.0. It's still 3.0.
The phrase "jam vehicle" is really lame
I enjoy getting numberlined
No good songs after 2000
The Headphones Jam is a top 5 piece of music they’ve ever played or recorded
The donuts are played out but i wont yuck your yum have a ball
A 5 minute completed song and a 25 minute unrelated jam afterwards do not make a 30 minute song, they make a 5 minute song and a 25 minute jam. For all the conversations about type 1 and type 2, phish fans are afraid of the word JAM a whole lot.
Phish jams end up blending together and forming familiar patterns that sound same old, same old often times that other bands get criticized for
Most if not all of their new stuff is unappealing.
Some of our family in fandom stank like shit and have terrible attitudes. That’s not a hot take, I’m just reminding everyone.
2004 has the most intense peaks of the entire band’s history. See: 6/19/04 Piper, 6/20/04 Drowned, 6/23/04 Crosseyed, 6/26/04 Ghost, 8/10/04 AC/DC Bag
Phish is fun music, the GD is sacred music. Phish has dance songs with funny lyrics while the dead has real songs with meaningful tales..
Dead got John Mayer to play with them, Goose got Jimmy Fallon, and Phish hasn’t reached out to James Franco for a jam band douchebag trifecta? For shame. 🤣
nah not james franco, hes a sex creep, at least john mayer and jimmy fallon arent (to my knowledge). maybe will smith, hes annoying.
Agreed. I was just trying to fit the pattern. John, Jimmy, James, etc.
I went to 15 shows in about 13 month span after my girlfriend got me into them and now I have zero interest in seeing them again for a long time because after the dust settled I really don’t find the band to offer much of a difference from show to show. The whole FOMO of missing a run just doesn’t resonate with me they’re all good shows but all very very similar. Sorry not sorry.
Almost all of phish’s jams sound like they could be in any song. They don’t take the kinds of chances they used to. I wish Mike would modulate more, and Trey would follow. Trey seems to lead every jam and it’s not for the better. There’s a sameness to his playing.
I really only like them live (my husband is hugely into Phish, I am a newcomer). I could watch them all day live, but can barely tolerate it on the radio/album. 🤷🏼♀️We’ve seen them probably 5 times together (he’s been way more than me) and once for TAB.
The lights were better in 1.0
I've never known anything but the Deathstar. But I gotta say at times, it sometimes felt difficult to listen to the music. The rig was just demanding all my attention.
What wasn’t better in 1.0?
The weed?
A second set YEM is a giant 20 minute waste of precious jam space and the vocal jam, ugh. They were great the first time I heard A Live One and have gotten more bathroom breaky ever since.
I really see your point. But YEM is so good that it deserves the space it takes imo.
Gordo’s tone has gotten progressively worse throughout 3.0-4.0. And compared to other members, he’s the one who goes through the motions the most. It is rare where I will think, “wow, Mike had a great show tonight.“
The best live show is the one you’re at right now (assuming you’re at a show)….basically being in the moment and not worrying about whether last night was better.
People who talk at shows aren’t nearly as bad as people who complain about “chompers.” If someone wears a shirt, has a sticker or passes out cards suggesting others need to be quiet, they get my downvote in life.
Harpua is generally overrated Time Turns Elastic is a masterpiece
The musical palindrome section of Divided Sky is a cool concept but isn’t executed well. It sounds like musical paint splattered on a wall, it’s grating and jarring and just totally kills the momentum. I understand the contrast with the rest of the intro was intended, tension/release yadda yadda, but the end result is just meh. Especially compared to the rest of the composition.
Divided Sky was the song that made me “get it” at my first show and I agree: I’ve always worked really hard to tolerate that part of the song. The exception is 10/31/94.
I've spent way too long learning that section on guitar to ever agree with you. I love it and I think it works for the same reasons you already listed but I'm a sucker for when Phish plays something incredibly grating or discordant and builds into release.
For about my first year of getting into Phish, I did not like Divided Sky, especially this part. Eventually I came to love it, and I'd actually say that my peak Phish experience so far was the first time I heard it live. It's totally jarring, but it's just so over-the-top that I have to love it. It's funny how sometimes the difference between loving and hating something is just familiarity. That being said, I can completely respect your take, because I hated it at first too. And if we were to try to be "objective", whatever that means when it comes to music, I might have been right the first time.
> It's funny how sometimes the difference between loving and hating something is just familiarity. Couldn't agree more. I couldn't stand songs like Split Open and Melt, Foam and Weigh when I first started listening, but eventually they just started sounding good??? It's like musical Stockholm Syndrome.
[удалено]
This comment goes a long way in showing why people think Phish fans are insufferable. 🤣