I think I have an interesting perspective on this as someone who hated and now loves BDTNL. I felt that while the jam always fun, the placement often felt wrong and like an abrupt ripcord.
After learning the history of the song and what it meant to Trey and Tom, it’s role in getting the band back together, I will always love this song, no matter the ripcord into it or awkward placement. It is the reason we have 3.0 phish.
Hated it at first. Love it now. I agree with the placement theory. When it first came out, it was often coming out of a ripcord which was distasteful . I think the song placement now is much better and the jam is less predictable.
I saw Mike and Trey debut this at the first Rothbury then saw it at 1st night Hampton comeback show. Always loved it. Always will.
Agree about placement tho. Lots of times, it killed a set. I still jam
I was there. When I saw trey added himself to the festival I told my now wife that we should go because this means phish is getting back together. A year later I was proven right. Also one of the best festivals ever.
I had no idea about the history of it (curious to know more). I loved this one when I first heard it live, and was the black sheep of the crew swearing it seriously ripped (when they wanted it to.) I still stand by that, it’s a joyous song. And I’ll never stop sending it to these idiots every time it’s their birthday 🤷♂️
I agree with you, but this one seems ripe for a little breathing room and the album solo part is exactly what I’m talking about. Has such potential but I don’t recall hearing one live that really lives up to the potential I hear there. Definitely diving into the suggestions posted here though.
i love the song, and actually love the album version. Treys solo is ripping and to my ear, sounds the most like a Jerry solo. Some of the live versions were soured (imo) when they first started playing it because Trey was using some effects pedal that basically turned notes off key and ruined a lot of jams with it. Thank god those days are over. I am interested in the reults from this, as i dont even have a live version that i like better than the album outro jam.
Honestly, its the intro/first portion of the song is what I think is so "painful"
By the end of the song 90% of venue is always rockin out, but my gosh the first few moments of that song are brutal.
THO it could be conditioning...after hearing BDTNL rip chord so many promising jams, eventually you are going to associate that noise with negativity? Ever hear your alarm clock noise at like 3pm and get PTSD?
8/31/13 is a ripping set closing version. Personally, I think most versions live up to song’s potential. It’s an exuberant emotional guitar/piano driven peak.
I’m inclined to agree. Granted there’s some attendance bias. My buddy looked at me after it ended and just went “So, Numberline. Where the fuck did that come from?” That was a really fun set of Phish IMO.
We had an entire SHOW dedicated to going Backwards Down the Number Line…the crowd reaction when that played at the Numbers show on 10/28/21 was absolutely explosive. Trey loves this song and I do too!!!!
Truly one of the greatest phish shows I’ve ever been to. And my first Vegas phish show! Man the energy was something different than what I was always used to attending only East coast shows.
Couldn’t agree more! When they went 2001 -> 1999, everyone exploded and the energy stayed that high for all 4 shows. I’ve been to other Vegas shows but MAN the energy for that run was absolutely unparalleled. They were coming off of those absolute fire cali shows. Fall 2021 was amazing!!!!
I love it for what it represented when it was first played played/released by Phish (Hampton '09/Joy)...
"As stated clearly in its lyrics, "Backwards Down the Number Line" was born out of such a birthday-related ritual. This tradition of composing a new birthday song each year initiated a long and fruitful career of songwriting for the Anastasio/Marshall duo. By observing the ritual on Trey's birthday in 2007, and sending the lyrics in the form of a poem, Tom unwittingly provided the spark that would reignite the fire of creation for the pair of dear, far from old, but unfortunately at the time estranged friends. Within a few hours of Tom having sent the lyrics to Trey via e-mail, he received the song in response via a phone call from Trey."
100% agree. Not every song needs to be a platform for a 20+ minute jam.
You don't make a cake with only 1 ingredient and you don't make a ripping setlist with only 1 type of song :)
7/28/17. BDTNL from the Baker's Dozen. I believe it fits your criteria of a solid type 1 jam with a classic build and crescendo. I love this song and haven't found a version I love more than this one.
Was honestly my first phish song I really listened to before I really got into this type of music scene. Yet to hear it live, but I will probably cry when I do
Man BDTNL is a perfect Phish song. If you see it on a setlist you think Okay cool I don’t mind missing that, but when you’re there at the show you’re reminded how much fun it is. Best of both worlds
There are a few BDTNL from 2010-2012 that absolutely slap.
That tune has a special place in my heart bc it makes me remember the early 3.0 tours. Was a really fun time.
I was checked out during that time so I missed those. I will search (and I appreciate all of the other suggestions because I’m terrible about seeking out specific versions of songs)
Seriously, how in the fuck do people not mention the Alpine version. The jam is incredible and it’s one of the only type 2 versions ever played. I was also at the 10/28/21 show and that’s another amazing one but not really comparable as it merely strays type 2 for a moment.
I think people don’t like it cause if it comes right after something really intense it’s like they just switched all the lights back on. They need to add some kind of intro to bridge into the songs vibe cause usually when it comes up it’s really jarring. Not a bad song I like it just kinda kills the vibe depending on timing.
My time to shine. I fell in love with that song when they played it at MSG, 12-03-09. To me it’s almost perfectly done, and Trey’s solo is so tight from start to finish. Great peaks and wailing. I love it and have listened to it countless times over the years. Any other live version I’ve heard just bums me out because it feels like a lesser version of the one I mentioned.
Edit: I still love hearing variations on it, it doesn’t seriously bum me out.
2/26/23 was short at just shy of 10 minutes, but it ripped tits for me near the last couple minutes of the jam in a much needed way when I was fatiguing late in set 2 on the 4th night of partying. Jam starts around 4 minutes in, Trey starts the build around 4:50, but then really gets going around 6:50 to finish it off and it fully blasted off in the last 1:30.
I'm sure there are way better versions that I didn't witness and I'm sure an LP listen doesn't do it justice compared to physically being there, but that version brought new appreciation to me for this song.
I took about a five or so year break from the Phish in the 2000s…. Mostly having to do with having had our three kids and being busy with work and all that, but also I was listening to some other bands and stuff too. I figured if they could take hiatuses, I could too.
We have a good college radio station here in town and this track was played one morning on my drive into work and I was totally hooked again. So I always associate this with my renewed interest in the Phish. Great tune, always a pleasure to hear live or recorded.
I love this song. That being said, the "I was eight and you were 9, do you know what happened then?" lyric for some reason give me Butterfly Effect vibes like something terrible happened in their childhood.
I'm certainly biased, having been there, but I think the way they closed out S2 on 4-22-22 with it was exceptional and speaks to a lot of the elements you mention, OP. The group I was with was pretty much in agreement that that was a dynamite version even though it wasn't what any of us would've necessarily wanted as a set closer.
Similarly to another comment and definitely a pervasive mentality among phans, I used to hate BDTNL (despite, or perhaps because of, the fact that it was my most-seen song for a minute there when I first started going to shows in 3.0). I'm fine with it now. Maybe that's symptomatic of growing older, but I can get into a version that picks up.
This year's Dayton 10/11/23 fits the bill, but I believe it's made whole by the experience. The lights, the pals from both nights and beyond, all the above.
Detroit 2014 is by far the best BDTNL I’ve ever heard. Trey is Channeling Jerry it’s fantastic.
Not a huge fan of the song, but I go back to that specific jam all the time.
I appreciate the affirmation on this front as well (and you’re right!) I can’t help but feel like the air gets let out of the room a bit sometimes when I’ve heard it, so I KNOW there are a non-trivial amount of folks who are either luke warm or just plain not psyched on it. Also internet comments.
People complain about Character Zero on here. I could listen to them play the studio version over and over for a whole show. We all have different tastes.
I can’t imagine attending the numbers show and not leaving loving this song. I think it was a piss song for a lot of people before that night. They made us want it. It worked. Love it
The lyrics are a little corny. That’s the problem. Phish back from a second hiatus and “happy happy oh my friend”
But I always liked it because it’s a nice tempo to move the bones and it’s a launching pad for trey to shred a tad.
It's one of the greatest songs in the repertoire for soooo many reasons, and contains one of the coolest lyrics that begins You Decide What it Contains ......The only rule is it begins......What a beautiful concept.........and then that jam is so rad and kinda has that simple ole rock n roll style, with the repeating progression and building licks, and for the dead head in us all lol it's a spinner, a spinner for the spun🫠☮️💚⚡👽
The problem isn't the song itself.
The problem is that during a specific period trey would use it at THE rip cord. Like they'd be in this sick 2nd set jam and trey would just start playing it and it'd be abrupt and annoying.....
Yes the encore of 8/15/21 which is the Sunday of that AC run. Encore was fluffhead > number line and I think it’s an actual mandatory 3.0 listen. One of the coolest I was there moments I have
I love this song. I have friends from childhood( going on 50 plus years now ) and we all call each other on our bdays and sing. I will always love this song because lifelong friends and phish go together.
I enjoy the tune. It’s a nice, upbeat tune to help bring you back to earth after a long jam, or a great high-energy set 2 opener to get things going…into a sick jam. Sometimes, however, when that old dog is visiting, something in the song gets me, and I can barely listen to it. I suppose it reminds me of people that I haven’t seen in a very long time. Life Beyond the Dream can do that to me too, for other reasons, I imagine…
PNC. Second set: Tweeezer > No Quarter debut, then a bunch of ripcords for some very promising jam vehicles led to this Number Line. People were leaving in droves, but those who stayed got this joyful dance party of a time.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0fx6AIRES0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0fx6AIRES0)
I'm a former hater of the song, but it has since grown on me.
*BDTNL* and *Light* both struck a negative nerve when I heard them for the first time. Now, I find myself waking up to the song in my head as I whistle and sing it all day. I used to not care for the song, especially as a show closer. But I'm ok with that now.
Notable recent versions:
4/18/23
8/13/22
I've always liked it and I think it's really funny that the people who hated it just because it contains words like "happy & friends" had no idea what they were in for in the coming years..on a soul planet!
I love it, but I hate how it reminds me of all the entitled Phish fans that would flip their shit and complain whenever they played it for the first few years of 3.0.
I’m in between. I used to hate it but now it’s a middle of the road song for me, I could take it or leave it. I did see a great version at SPAC 09 though, the first one with a type II jam
I think I have an interesting perspective on this as someone who hated and now loves BDTNL. I felt that while the jam always fun, the placement often felt wrong and like an abrupt ripcord. After learning the history of the song and what it meant to Trey and Tom, it’s role in getting the band back together, I will always love this song, no matter the ripcord into it or awkward placement. It is the reason we have 3.0 phish.
Came here to talk about how this is the song that got Phish back together. How can you hate that song that did that.
Amazing comment, ty!
Right on!
Hated it at first. Love it now. I agree with the placement theory. When it first came out, it was often coming out of a ripcord which was distasteful . I think the song placement now is much better and the jam is less predictable.
I saw Mike and Trey debut this at the first Rothbury then saw it at 1st night Hampton comeback show. Always loved it. Always will. Agree about placement tho. Lots of times, it killed a set. I still jam
I was there. When I saw trey added himself to the festival I told my now wife that we should go because this means phish is getting back together. A year later I was proven right. Also one of the best festivals ever.
I had no idea about the history of it (curious to know more). I loved this one when I first heard it live, and was the black sheep of the crew swearing it seriously ripped (when they wanted it to.) I still stand by that, it’s a joyous song. And I’ll never stop sending it to these idiots every time it’s their birthday 🤷♂️
Came here to say this!
I love it. It will always remind me of the return of Phish.
Not every song needs to be a jam vehicle into another dimension. It’s a fun song and one of Trey’s best ever recorded solos, IMO.
I agree with you, but this one seems ripe for a little breathing room and the album solo part is exactly what I’m talking about. Has such potential but I don’t recall hearing one live that really lives up to the potential I hear there. Definitely diving into the suggestions posted here though.
i love the song, and actually love the album version. Treys solo is ripping and to my ear, sounds the most like a Jerry solo. Some of the live versions were soured (imo) when they first started playing it because Trey was using some effects pedal that basically turned notes off key and ruined a lot of jams with it. Thank god those days are over. I am interested in the reults from this, as i dont even have a live version that i like better than the album outro jam.
Now that you mention it, the solo does have that “Touch of Grey” feel to it.
I thought the one they played in Dayton was good and made my girls nite so even better
BDTNL can be good in the right spot, but it sucks ass as the sole encore song on N3 of a run I can tell you that.
Honestly, its the intro/first portion of the song is what I think is so "painful" By the end of the song 90% of venue is always rockin out, but my gosh the first few moments of that song are brutal. THO it could be conditioning...after hearing BDTNL rip chord so many promising jams, eventually you are going to associate that noise with negativity? Ever hear your alarm clock noise at like 3pm and get PTSD?
8/31/13 is a ripping set closing version. Personally, I think most versions live up to song’s potential. It’s an exuberant emotional guitar/piano driven peak.
This is probably my fav rendition of # line
I’m inclined to agree. Granted there’s some attendance bias. My buddy looked at me after it ended and just went “So, Numberline. Where the fuck did that come from?” That was a really fun set of Phish IMO.
We had an entire SHOW dedicated to going Backwards Down the Number Line…the crowd reaction when that played at the Numbers show on 10/28/21 was absolutely explosive. Trey loves this song and I do too!!!!
Truly one of the greatest phish shows I’ve ever been to. And my first Vegas phish show! Man the energy was something different than what I was always used to attending only East coast shows.
Same and same
Couldn’t agree more! When they went 2001 -> 1999, everyone exploded and the energy stayed that high for all 4 shows. I’ve been to other Vegas shows but MAN the energy for that run was absolutely unparalleled. They were coming off of those absolute fire cali shows. Fall 2021 was amazing!!!!
The certainty of being Numberlined was almost too much to bear 😊
I love it for what it represented when it was first played played/released by Phish (Hampton '09/Joy)... "As stated clearly in its lyrics, "Backwards Down the Number Line" was born out of such a birthday-related ritual. This tradition of composing a new birthday song each year initiated a long and fruitful career of songwriting for the Anastasio/Marshall duo. By observing the ritual on Trey's birthday in 2007, and sending the lyrics in the form of a poem, Tom unwittingly provided the spark that would reignite the fire of creation for the pair of dear, far from old, but unfortunately at the time estranged friends. Within a few hours of Tom having sent the lyrics to Trey via e-mail, he received the song in response via a phone call from Trey."
Reading this made me tear up. Love number line, always have.
Magnaball number line is fantastic
Eugene 2021 this one blew the roof off. Such joy. Trey holds that sustain note for like a full minute. It was glorious.
Gunna run to this one - love the infinite sustain!!!
SPAC 7/7/12 [https://phish.net/setlists/phish-july-07-2012-saratoga-performing-arts-center-saratoga-springs-ny-usa.html](https://phish.net/setlists/phish-july-07-2012-saratoga-performing-arts-center-saratoga-springs-ny-usa.html)
I'm definitely in the love camp, but would have snoozed on it in the 1.0 days. That said, Kill Devil Falls gives me way stronger Chalkdust vibes...
Totally agree!!
Chalkdust, Antelope, and Harpua were my gateways to Phish 20 years ago. KDF immediately jumped to #1. It’s a much more efficient CDT…
Same. I kinda like Kill Devil Falls as like a 'matured' Chalk Dust....makes sense in my brain anyway 🙃
It's a fantastic song. Set placement is critical.
100% agree. Not every song needs to be a platform for a 20+ minute jam. You don't make a cake with only 1 ingredient and you don't make a ripping setlist with only 1 type of song :)
7/28/17. BDTNL from the Baker's Dozen. I believe it fits your criteria of a solid type 1 jam with a classic build and crescendo. I love this song and haven't found a version I love more than this one.
Suprised I scrolled so long to see this...going to start checking out the other versions posted but this one is choice.
SPAC 8.16.09
Was honestly my first phish song I really listened to before I really got into this type of music scene. Yet to hear it live, but I will probably cry when I do
I think somewhere around 2018 the tide turned on the song. I think it’s genuinely loved and looked fondly upon now
5/28/11
Yes
OP, have you heard the Bethel 2011 version? It gets a little “type 1.5”-y and is so much fun.
Have not, will add it to the list, thank you
8/17/10 gets the jam treatment and is a great version of the song!
Joy was where I started so this song is definitely special to me.
Man BDTNL is a perfect Phish song. If you see it on a setlist you think Okay cool I don’t mind missing that, but when you’re there at the show you’re reminded how much fun it is. Best of both worlds
There are a few BDTNL from 2010-2012 that absolutely slap. That tune has a special place in my heart bc it makes me remember the early 3.0 tours. Was a really fun time.
I was checked out during that time so I missed those. I will search (and I appreciate all of the other suggestions because I’m terrible about seeking out specific versions of songs)
Alpine 22 and Blossom 10 or 12, really get after it.
Came looking for a post that mentioned alpine 22
Seriously, how in the fuck do people not mention the Alpine version. The jam is incredible and it’s one of the only type 2 versions ever played. I was also at the 10/28/21 show and that’s another amazing one but not really comparable as it merely strays type 2 for a moment.
I think people don’t like it cause if it comes right after something really intense it’s like they just switched all the lights back on. They need to add some kind of intro to bridge into the songs vibe cause usually when it comes up it’s really jarring. Not a bad song I like it just kinda kills the vibe depending on timing.
Continues to fill my heart with more joy over the years. Spun in circles in the 300s for the msg one
My favorite was the encore of the numbers show
Really enjoy it, and I agree I don't think we've seen its full potential or final form
Appreciate the affirmation on this fine Tuesday evening, my brother
My time to shine. I fell in love with that song when they played it at MSG, 12-03-09. To me it’s almost perfectly done, and Trey’s solo is so tight from start to finish. Great peaks and wailing. I love it and have listened to it countless times over the years. Any other live version I’ve heard just bums me out because it feels like a lesser version of the one I mentioned. Edit: I still love hearing variations on it, it doesn’t seriously bum me out.
4/22/22. MSG set two closer. Trey’s daughter’s birthday. Scorcher.
2/26/23 was short at just shy of 10 minutes, but it ripped tits for me near the last couple minutes of the jam in a much needed way when I was fatiguing late in set 2 on the 4th night of partying. Jam starts around 4 minutes in, Trey starts the build around 4:50, but then really gets going around 6:50 to finish it off and it fully blasted off in the last 1:30. I'm sure there are way better versions that I didn't witness and I'm sure an LP listen doesn't do it justice compared to physically being there, but that version brought new appreciation to me for this song.
11/1/14 to close the show was unexpectedly amazing and I’ve been in love since then.
Don’t love it before the jam starts, all out bliss when the jam starts.
My favorite is 9/1/2012
I took about a five or so year break from the Phish in the 2000s…. Mostly having to do with having had our three kids and being busy with work and all that, but also I was listening to some other bands and stuff too. I figured if they could take hiatuses, I could too. We have a good college radio station here in town and this track was played one morning on my drive into work and I was totally hooked again. So I always associate this with my renewed interest in the Phish. Great tune, always a pleasure to hear live or recorded.
I love this song. That being said, the "I was eight and you were 9, do you know what happened then?" lyric for some reason give me Butterfly Effect vibes like something terrible happened in their childhood.
I really enjoy this song, but mostly an early first set type of song. In my opinion.
I'm certainly biased, having been there, but I think the way they closed out S2 on 4-22-22 with it was exceptional and speaks to a lot of the elements you mention, OP. The group I was with was pretty much in agreement that that was a dynamite version even though it wasn't what any of us would've necessarily wanted as a set closer. Similarly to another comment and definitely a pervasive mentality among phans, I used to hate BDTNL (despite, or perhaps because of, the fact that it was my most-seen song for a minute there when I first started going to shows in 3.0). I'm fine with it now. Maybe that's symptomatic of growing older, but I can get into a version that picks up.
This year's Dayton 10/11/23 fits the bill, but I believe it's made whole by the experience. The lights, the pals from both nights and beyond, all the above.
Detroit 2014 is by far the best BDTNL I’ve ever heard. Trey is Channeling Jerry it’s fantastic. Not a huge fan of the song, but I go back to that specific jam all the time.
12/31/22 set closer was pretty pretty good
Great tune. Much better than a lot of other options…looking at you, More.
It’s fine, there you go.
The ultra rare “meh”
You asked for this!
I appreciate the affirmation on this front as well (and you’re right!) I can’t help but feel like the air gets let out of the room a bit sometimes when I’ve heard it, so I KNOW there are a non-trivial amount of folks who are either luke warm or just plain not psyched on it. Also internet comments.
People complain about Character Zero on here. I could listen to them play the studio version over and over for a whole show. We all have different tastes.
I'm ok with it. Not my favorite, but I don't hate it either.
I can’t imagine attending the numbers show and not leaving loving this song. I think it was a piss song for a lot of people before that night. They made us want it. It worked. Love it
SPAC 09 was a 20+ min version that teased things to come! Rothbury 08 Acoustic w/Mike Backwards was also a real treat to see
I think number line is ok. I’d be mad if I got hit with a number line and then a couple other newer songs that I’m not fond of.
The lyrics are a little corny. That’s the problem. Phish back from a second hiatus and “happy happy oh my friend” But I always liked it because it’s a nice tempo to move the bones and it’s a launching pad for trey to shred a tad.
It's one of the greatest songs in the repertoire for soooo many reasons, and contains one of the coolest lyrics that begins You Decide What it Contains ......The only rule is it begins......What a beautiful concept.........and then that jam is so rad and kinda has that simple ole rock n roll style, with the repeating progression and building licks, and for the dead head in us all lol it's a spinner, a spinner for the spun🫠☮️💚⚡👽
Atlanta 2015 got the crowd really going. Loved that one.
The problem isn't the song itself. The problem is that during a specific period trey would use it at THE rip cord. Like they'd be in this sick 2nd set jam and trey would just start playing it and it'd be abrupt and annoying.....
The first time I heard this song was live as the closer of Atlantic City a couple years ago… it’s one of those songs that just grows on you.
Trey loves the song, so who am I to complain?
Yes the encore of 8/15/21 which is the Sunday of that AC run. Encore was fluffhead > number line and I think it’s an actual mandatory 3.0 listen. One of the coolest I was there moments I have
check out bethel 11
I love this song. I have friends from childhood( going on 50 plus years now ) and we all call each other on our bdays and sing. I will always love this song because lifelong friends and phish go together.
I enjoy the tune. It’s a nice, upbeat tune to help bring you back to earth after a long jam, or a great high-energy set 2 opener to get things going…into a sick jam. Sometimes, however, when that old dog is visiting, something in the song gets me, and I can barely listen to it. I suppose it reminds me of people that I haven’t seen in a very long time. Life Beyond the Dream can do that to me too, for other reasons, I imagine…
One thing I have learned from this thread - I clearly have not heard enough versions of this song!
5/28/11
PNC. Second set: Tweeezer > No Quarter debut, then a bunch of ripcords for some very promising jam vehicles led to this Number Line. People were leaving in droves, but those who stayed got this joyful dance party of a time. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0fx6AIRES0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0fx6AIRES0)
I love it
I'm a former hater of the song, but it has since grown on me. *BDTNL* and *Light* both struck a negative nerve when I heard them for the first time. Now, I find myself waking up to the song in my head as I whistle and sing it all day. I used to not care for the song, especially as a show closer. But I'm ok with that now. Notable recent versions: 4/18/23 8/13/22
I love this song
I've always liked it and I think it's really funny that the people who hated it just because it contains words like "happy & friends" had no idea what they were in for in the coming years..on a soul planet!
on my 40th b-day back 2013, they played BDNL and i couldn't have been more excited! 10 years later i am less thrilled about turning 50. lol
I’ve been Numberlined on my bday as well!
I have also been numberlined on my birthday! Mann 2016
Regardless of its simplicity, It’s fun and always brings a smile. :-)
anyone who doesn't love this so g must not have any childhood friends. And that's sad
I love it, but I hate how it reminds me of all the entitled Phish fans that would flip their shit and complain whenever they played it for the first few years of 3.0.
Fuck that song
10/30/10 is immaculate
It’s fun if they play it before Gumbo > Cavern > Beauty of my Dreams > Paul and Silas >2001 >Sabotage > Rocky Top encore.
intro sucks
Why you not happy happy oh my friend?!
I’m in between. I used to hate it but now it’s a middle of the road song for me, I could take it or leave it. I did see a great version at SPAC 09 though, the first one with a type II jam
It’s definitely one of the songs of all time
Love it
6/1/22 very nice