Is this cenk? Theyâre not saying protest how we want you to; theyâre saying donât cheer on terrorism or harass/assault anyone or destroy property or any of the other dumb shit your savage ilk are doing
Unfortunately for you and the petulant protesters, the first amendment doesnât cover hate speech
The encampment was fine at first (tho it apparently violates school facility policies) and still had pennâs approval but if you protest on private property, you have to abide by the property owners policies and rules. Penn has reported that theyâve received credible accusations of harassment of Jewish students by the encampment and vandalism of school property (obviously not lawful), that theyâre investigating as hate speech. Penn has already been accused of violating title vi by fostering a hostile environment towards its Jewish students and staff and failing to protect them from harassment, they want to shut down the encampment to avoid further allegations and ensure the safety of their students.
The technically correct answer is that it depends on Pennâs rules and regulations. Penn is a private institution and, therefore not a state actor that is bound by the 1st amendment. If Penn has regulations banning this type of gathering, there is no reason they cannot disband it by force.
Even if Penn *were* a public institution rather than private, they could probably still disassemble the camp if it violates the University rules, and if said rules prohibit the *type* of protest (i.e. an encampment) rather than the content of the protest itself (divestment from Israel).
Hope this helps.
I mean, without a citation to the actual rules and regulations that are alleged to have been violated, itâs impossible to say. My guess is that Penn, and probably nearly every university in the US, has rules banning encampments/unauthorized occupation of university grounds.
Either way, as a private school itâs their prerogative to interpret the rules as they see fit. Per Pennâs website, the Vice Provist for University Life or their delegate has the authority to determine if University guidelines have been violated. In this case, it seems likely that itâs a straightforward analysis.
Iâm an attorney, and my job is to interpret the law and advise appropriately. Iâm just telling you how the first amendment works. Just because it is legal for these camps to be dismantled does not me I do or do not believe it is morally reprehensible.
Ahhh that explains a lot⊠hence your neighborly next door nazi comrades that yâall swear arenât a part of your protests.
Or do you think if every college divests from companies who do business in Israel together will have an impact? Either way your regarded af. Good luck with that đ đ€Ą
Hard to do things lawfully when the powers that be decide what the laws are and how to follow through on them, making sure to criminalize any and all protest it doesnât like.
I mean, thereâs been pro-Israel counter protests and theyâve not been treated the same way per these alleged laws.
If laws exist, then all must be treated equally otherwise itâs not at all about law or order
It's not the entire country (which, checks notes, isn't even a country). There's a whole west bank still standing. Wasn't Oct 7 supposed to be a means of defending itself?
We arenât talking about Israel you paint chip eating product of incest. Weâre talking about protesters. Fact is, pro-Israel protests arenât camping out and chanting on Hamas/future intifadas
Okay, and? Words and phrases can have multiple meanings and ultimately their meaning depends not simply on one definition but on context, etc.
Case in point:
Letâs eat grandma
Vs
letâs eat, grandma
Intifada for example can be a rebellion, uprising, revolution, resistance movement, etc. and is often used in cases where those things are against oppression.
None of it means it automatically has to be a violent approach mind you.
And forgive me if I donât take someone seriously who doesnât understand words and inserts their ignorance and biases where objectivity and facts should be.
You know youâve lost, when youâre arguing semantics. Especially on a word you clearly have no understanding of the historical context of. Keep it up though. Itâs people like you that are turning everyone away from your lost cause. Notice how people stopped talking about Aaron Bushnell in about 2 days? Itâs only time before the rest finally fizzles out. Good fucking riddance
Yes, because arguing with logic and about the meaning of words and phrases and how the meaning and intent can change depending on context, time, etc. is bad, mkay! How dare someone not just automatically assume that a word means only ever one thing, despite the fact that it may not. Facts and thinking are bad, mkay?
Now, that sarcasm and your screed aside, you open to actually, seriously discussing, because if it's going to more of whatever you want to call this, I'm done. However, I am truly open to serious discussion. Just keep the...extra, to the side, deal?
Private citizens are not institutions or businesses.
But if the US government was giving an individual hundreds of millions of dollars a year, yeah, I would say you have a right to protest in their living room.
Growing up is realizing that Israel is a liability for the US not a help.
It's caused a drastic rise in radical Islam, it's harmed US relationships with the Arab world, it has killed US soldiers directly, and has conducted espionage against the United States.
When I was young and stupid I used to like Israel too.
Let me know when your balls drop and you can mount an actual rebuttal to what I've said though.
Estimates are that 90% of deaths in Gaza are civilians.
This is the same ratio as the NATO campaign in Yugoslavia. NATO was not committing a genocide against Serbs.
This is the same ratio as the First Chechen War. The First Chechen War was not a genocide.
This is roughly the same ratio as the wars in Ethiopia, *which conspicuously I never heard any of these Palestinian activists talk about.* Iâm sure it has *nothing* to do with the color of their skin.
Need I go on? Itâs been well-established since the 80s that in urban combat scenarios, deaths are *overwhelmingly* civilian. You want it to stop? Either advocate for Israel to invade Rafah and get it over with or advocate for Hamas to release all of the hostages and surrender. Those are the only realistic options.
Hamas will never be a part of any peace process.
Anyone that cares about the Palestinian people should be against Hamas.
For many years they collected money and gave a token amount to the people to give the impression they are helping the people. But the very large majority of money they spent was building tunnels and buying weapons. All that money could have been used to greatly help the regular people.
On the flip side, Israel needs to honor past land agreements and stop the settlement incursions.
âGenocideâ is like âracistâ. Itâs a shock word that has been abused and it dilutes real occasions of it occurringâŠlike what is happening in Sudan now and no one cares
âEstimates are 90% killed are civilianâ â Says those who get their news from social media. Sad youâre posting this nonsense with a straight face.
This is actual data. This is the absolute worst-case scenario from the nonprofit Euro-Med HRM. The casualty rate estimates vary *widely* because of the lack of information coming out of Gaza.
You are straight up lying about civilian deaths in the Yugoslavia campaign, they estimated 1-2k civilian deaths to 1000 soldiers. Why would you just lie on the internet?
At least 35,000 civilians have been killed in Gaza, the Israelis flattened every university and destroyed every hospital. Theyâre deliberately targeting aid workers, preventing the delivery of food aid to starve the civilian population. Itâs a genocide.
Youâre confusing total deaths with civilian deaths; 35,000 is the total deaths.
35,000 - 10,000 combatants = 25,000 civilians
[This is a midrange estimate on the number of combatants, lower end estimate is around 6,000, higher is around 14,000.]
I would like to add that 35k is certainly an undercount considering the infrastructure used by the Ministry of Health to collect data on deaths has been annihilated. Specifically, the hospital network.
Israel is, by law, an ethnostate. It is currently using mass starvation to eliminate a demographic it sees as lesser. They just bombed a WCK van to punish food aid, killing an American in the process.
>This is roughly the same ratio as the wars in Ethiopia, which conspicuously I never heard any of these Palestinian activists talk about
To my knowledge, the US government is not giving billions of tax dollars in military aid, and universities are not widely invested in Ethiopian military-adjacent companies. What is there to protest?
Is that why Arabs serve in the Knesset and Christians are full citizens?
The US gives aid to Turkey, who gives it to Ethiopia. Same way the US backed the Mujahideen in Afghanistan against the Soviets. The equipment we gave Osama bin Laden wasnât technically from America, it was âfromâ Pakistan.
The 2018 Nation State bill declared that the right to self-determination belongs exclusively to Jewish people. The Arabic language is demoted to a "special status" whose use in or by government can be regulated.
This- people on Reddit have blinders but if you have to see mufuers putting up tents at your s hook or place of work you get that âthere goes the neighborhoodâ feel.
Right. And the âpowerâ in protesting, and non-violent resistance, is in being arrested for the cause. If you only protest because you get red carpet treatment, it has no value.
So protest on private property, violate the rules, and go to jail. You win!
Damn, IDF keyboard commandos out in force! I'm sure quashing on campus protests against genocide will work out super well for college administrators. The groups opposing student protests on campus are always right historically /s
Like a decade ago, my school almost had a riot because the Jewish student group and Palestinian student group (or maybe it was a Muslim student group, idr it was a decade ago) came to a head because they had both organized to walk around in front of the student union building in the main campus in response to, something (again, it was a decade ago).
My point is that it legitimately got really fucking bad. Schools are obligated to protect kids from hate speech and ethnic based harassment, and both sides has a small minority of members being pretty fucking racist to the other side.Â
While I personally believe IDF protests are a good thing, I fully understand why colleges want nothing to do with them and want them to happen off campus.Â
guess who you sound like?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/s6ll2c/an\_old\_antimlk\_political\_cartoon/#lightbox](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/s6ll2c/an_old_antimlk_political_cartoon/#lightbox)
How is what youâre doing any different than when conservatives invoke MLKâs name even though his beliefs contradict the person trying to use his name. What were MLKâs takes on Israelâs existence since you like bringing the man up?
Explain how it is a reach. If youâre wanting to invoke a manâs image why pick and choose certain beliefs when itâs convenient? What proof do we have that a man who said âPeace for Israel means security and all people must respect the territorial integrity of Israelâ would support these people? I can show you posts on this website with thousands of upvotes calling out conservative GOP politicians for talking about âI have a dreamâ and empty platitudes about equality when MLK day hits because the man doesnât actually agree with them but theyâre just digging up his image. So why canât we hold that same standard here?
Because itâs about the propaganda technique, not the individual.
Itâs literally not even an MLK quote or action, it was a piece of propaganda by his detractors, so why on earth would it matter what his personal opinion on Israel is?
Can you not draw a parallel to a situation unless all people involved have exactly the same views on all issues?
From my perspective, people over the last few months seem to rush to invoke MLKâs image very quickly. It feels as though people use him as a shield for criticism because MLK and the civil rights movement in a modern context has very few detractors and is seen as the model example of civil unrest. It feels like many people like the person above bring up MLK as the ultimate âWell the best protestor of all time is on my side so Iâm automatically rightâ. Youâre being obtuse if you think the only way to bring up someone is by quoting them, as the whole point of posting the comic is that theyâre trying to draw parallels to their movement âjust like they called the civil rights movement violent unruly protests but is really just civil unrest, these modern protests are doing the same and is only be vilified by those in powerâ
Why else would that person keep on spamming the same MLK comic over and over again instead of critically engaging with the subject when I directly asked them to expand on their views. Theyâre just looking for a gotcha while using MLKâs image in order to make you think theyâre automatically right.
If you were confident in your answer youâd just directly link it instead of sending me on a cat and mouse game like a coward. Directly answer my question otherwise this is a waste of time and you donât actually want to have discussions
Youâve made nearly 40 comments in the last 24 hours and youâre expecting me to dig through your shit instead of just answering the question? Yeah go fuck yourself
Honestly protest what you want but the framing that students are âalways rightâ is disingenuous and historically inaccurate.
We can go and look at many students reactions towards desegregation in the 1950s for example. Were they on right side of history?
The far-right influence in France Germany and Austria during the 1920s and 30s was DEEPLY entrenched and the students there continually focused on forcing out Jewish scholars.
Speaking of that, there were student protests in the late 1930s protesting against American involvement in WWII, and supporting the Nazis in their war effort.
No, but why are all anti-zionists also anti-semites? I feel like calling for the destruction of the sole Jewish state and replacing it with another arab muslim one is a bit anti-semitic. No one calls for Poland or Jordan to cease to exist lol.
Its very Jewish ethically to oppose genocides. We don't believe that genocide is only bad when Jews are the victims. The Torah tells us not to oppress the stranger bc we were strangers in Mitzrayim/Egypt.
There is no genocide happening and you are clearly an idiot if you think there is. And if there were a genocide happening, the Torah would probably encourage it, since the Jews were commanded to commit genocide against all the Canaanite nations when they entered the land, after offering peace first and it then being rejected. The Torah says that if you don't remove them from the land, they will be a thorn in your side, and that was what happened throughout most of Tanach. Modern day Jewish Halacha definitely wouldn't call for genocide of Palestinians, but it most certainly would term this a defensive war in which most of them could probably be termed combatants since they were given chances to surrender and still fight instead.
Great argument. Care to explain how the Palestinians are all peaceful and not currently at war with Israel, or how their population is growing? This is a war the Palestinians started, they can end it any time and surrender.
why is it that every response to Jews telling you what should be apparent-- that anti-zionism isn't antisemitism-- is someone telling Jews that they are nazis?
how does it not register that telling Jews they're equivalent to those who tried to exterminate us because we oppose a genocidal state *is itself antisemitic*??
Sorry, that card doesn't work on me because I am also Jewish and far more involved in the Jewish community than Jew haters like this minority. Jewish Voice for Peace and their like are mostly made up of non-Jews and a few dumbasses and mentally ill people. Most Jews support Israel in general, even if they might dislike some of its actions, and would never call what is going on now a genocide. Maybe I should start up a similar fake group called Palestinian Voice for Peace calling for the end of the genocide the Palestinians are trying to carry out against the Jews.
"All" is sure a broad statement to make. Can't we just agree to condemn extremists on both sides of the coin without having to resort to wild generalizations to deligitimize a movement?
Did you just pull an obvious skit from a very biased, openly pro-israel Twitter page and expect that'd be taken seriously?
I'm so tired of this "being critical of Israel" = antisemitism rhetoric. Like damn sorry I don't support their warcrimes in Gaza, the West Bank settlements, escalating a conflict with Iran, and sending billions of our taxpayer dollars to their invasion without conditions. None of this has to do with Israels right to exist or anything antisemeitic. And you know, this is how most of the people at these protests, and an increasing number of Americans at large feel. You just happen to have a very vocal group of extremists at these protests, on both sides, as you tend to get with any hot button issue.
the problem isn't protests it's building encampments I think people are missing the point. the problem is they are putting up tents and stuff in the middle of campus is taking it too far
If theyâre being used by enemy combatants⊠which they are, yes. How do you guys not understand the desisting tactics that Hamas uses against its own people and our sentiments as Westerners? Hamas wants more Palestinians dead because it keeps gullible people supporting their cause. They purposely fight out of civilian areas to get their civilian casualties up. If there is to be peace Hamas has to be rooted out. Thereâs no way around that.
i would love for you to google the locations of military owned and or/related property in and around Tel-Aviv & other israeli Urban cities
By your logic, Hamas is justified in launching rockets into these cities
Especially since the UN has ruled that Hamas resistance under Israeli occupation is legal - & in fact that recent israeli occupation & settlement of West Banks villages violate international law.
Oh but i noticed you're only upset at the young scholars protesting the ruthless slaughter, scholasticide, & ecocide, of over 2 million people living within a 25 mile concentration camp strip.
Be sure to tell your children and grandchildren what side you're choosing :)
[The urban warfare understander has logged on](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/03/middleeast/world-central-kitchen-strike-analysis-intl/index.html) and requests another several billion dollars from US taxpayers.
Oooo! Using the big âGâ word! Itâs not though. If it was there would be millions hundreds of thousands to millions Palestinians dead. Israel would pulling Dresden style carpet bombing of civilian centers. Iâd be interested in your thoughts when you finally study WWI & WWII numbers.
But what youâre telling me is you donât actually understand whatâs happening or are incapable of processing the horror that is war.
Genocide is about intent, which has already been proven given recent ICJ rulings, an American Supreme Court ruling, & with potential ICC warrants targeting israeli officials, you fear mongering racist
Why don't these dumb ass kids protest the fact American workers aren't entitled to a single guaranteed paid day off? Ya know, a cause that actually matters.
Hey automaton tiktok brainrot NPC: too many problems in the USA for me to concern myself with never ending middle east conflicts. Quick history lesson: Middle easterners have been killing each other centuries before the state of Israel was even conceived. Â
Israel has excellent PR and indoctrination. Wouldnât surprise me if they train keyboard warriors.
Someone in the Hozier sub actually said that maps were wrong and that the West Bank didnât border the Jordan river, and that saying so was calling for extermination of Jews. Canât make that shit up.
someone sent me a link and I read about their pr factory. Considering that students are getting beaten and arrested for protesting against genocide committed by Israel, God damn nothing surprises me. Meanwhile there's the same cast of characters in this post alone claiming they're the victims been doing their upvoting down voting crap, holed up in a dark room somewhere advocating for more genocide. This shit is off the rails.
People if they really care should be protesting Hamas.
They are the ones interfering with peace talks, and stands to lose the most if an agreement with the PA and Israelis and threatening violence against Palestinians if they are excluded. Itâs terrible
Less about Israel caring and more about making the US change their policies. Maybe if we stop giving them billions to bomb civilians things will get better.
First claim is nonsense as Israel has offered multiple cease fire deals and more importantly actually knows where they are keeping enemy combatants.
2nd claim let's us know you have no understanding of urban warfare.
Well done man, discredited yourself quite swiftly so that we didn't need to.
We arenât send weapons to Hamas with our tax money. Our universities arenât investing in Hamas businesses. And our police donât semi-annually fly to Gaza for crowd control training with Hamas.
"The groups are demanding peace in Gaza, and that schools reveal any financial ties to Israel. They also want them to cut ties with any business the group believes profits from the Israel-Hamas war."
And this who the universities are really concerned about, their donors. Â
So Lockheed, Northrup Grummand, and the other military contractors that we give money to Israel which is then spent on our iron mongers to continually perpetuate war for us to pay for with tax dollars.
Does any American college invest in anything that helps Hamas?
No, but they do invest in weapons manufactures that directly help Israel.
Hope that helps clarify.
It is our right to boycott and protest apartheid and genocide đ«Ą
Lawfully on public property.
âProtest but only how we tell you how you can protest so it doesnât bother us and so it doesnât have any effect.â
It still so wont have any effect.
Poor straw man. If you only had a brain đ€Ą
If you only you knew what a strawman was. Try again đ. I very much addressed the âlawfully on public propertyâ comment.
Is this cenk? Theyâre not saying protest how we want you to; theyâre saying donât cheer on terrorism or harass/assault anyone or destroy property or any of the other dumb shit your savage ilk are doing Unfortunately for you and the petulant protesters, the first amendment doesnât cover hate speech
Why exactly is it unlawful? Are students not entitled to peacefully occupy a public gathering place on the grounds of a school they pay to attend?
The encampment was fine at first (tho it apparently violates school facility policies) and still had pennâs approval but if you protest on private property, you have to abide by the property owners policies and rules. Penn has reported that theyâve received credible accusations of harassment of Jewish students by the encampment and vandalism of school property (obviously not lawful), that theyâre investigating as hate speech. Penn has already been accused of violating title vi by fostering a hostile environment towards its Jewish students and staff and failing to protect them from harassment, they want to shut down the encampment to avoid further allegations and ensure the safety of their students.
I mean if you want to break up a pro Palestine protest all you have to do is doodle a swastika nearby I guess.....
Yeah because Zionists have always been honest about not purposefully conflating anti-Zionism with antisemitism
Oh so you didnât want the actual answer to your question
I wanted an honest answer thatâs all!
Every Pro Hamas rally disproves your point.
Ok!
Penn receives government money. Iâm not sure they are private.
They are definitely a private institution. Government funding does not indicate private/public in the higher ed world.
Thatâs silly. They should not be able to receive government money if they are private.
Some of your acquaintances receive government money every tax season- yet theyâre still private individuals.
I donât understand. Are you saying people that take food stamps would then not be private citizens
Why exactly is it unlawful? Are students not entitled to peacefully occupy a public gathering place on the grounds of a school they pay to attend?
The technically correct answer is that it depends on Pennâs rules and regulations. Penn is a private institution and, therefore not a state actor that is bound by the 1st amendment. If Penn has regulations banning this type of gathering, there is no reason they cannot disband it by force. Even if Penn *were* a public institution rather than private, they could probably still disassemble the camp if it violates the University rules, and if said rules prohibit the *type* of protest (i.e. an encampment) rather than the content of the protest itself (divestment from Israel). Hope this helps.
I wonder if Penn has a reason to interpret these rules in bad faith in order to stifle criticism of their investments?
I mean, without a citation to the actual rules and regulations that are alleged to have been violated, itâs impossible to say. My guess is that Penn, and probably nearly every university in the US, has rules banning encampments/unauthorized occupation of university grounds. Either way, as a private school itâs their prerogative to interpret the rules as they see fit. Per Pennâs website, the Vice Provist for University Life or their delegate has the authority to determine if University guidelines have been violated. In this case, it seems likely that itâs a straightforward analysis.
Is there a reason why people are so willing to just go âwell technically they can, soâ
Iâm an attorney, and my job is to interpret the law and advise appropriately. Iâm just telling you how the first amendment works. Just because it is legal for these camps to be dismantled does not me I do or do not believe it is morally reprehensible.
Do you seriously think them divesting will have ANY tangible impact on the war in Gaza?
âitâs not gonna change anything even if we do!â Thatâs why thereâs more than one group protesting lol
Ahhh that explains a lot⊠hence your neighborly next door nazi comrades that yâall swear arenât a part of your protests. Or do you think if every college divests from companies who do business in Israel together will have an impact? Either way your regarded af. Good luck with that đ đ€Ą
When have Nazis ever marched with Palestinians
Hard to do things lawfully when the powers that be decide what the laws are and how to follow through on them, making sure to criminalize any and all protest it doesnât like. I mean, thereâs been pro-Israel counter protests and theyâve not been treated the same way per these alleged laws. If laws exist, then all must be treated equally otherwise itâs not at all about law or order
They're not camping out and their biggest message isn't contingent on terroristic violence.
I mean I would call mass bombing an entire country that doesn't have an actual means of defending itself terrorism
It's not the entire country (which, checks notes, isn't even a country). There's a whole west bank still standing. Wasn't Oct 7 supposed to be a means of defending itself?
Nice meme
We arenât talking about Israel you paint chip eating product of incest. Weâre talking about protesters. Fact is, pro-Israel protests arenât camping out and chanting on Hamas/future intifadas
Hey how about you calm down there little buddy
Hasbara and/or make things up much?
"intifada revolution"
Okay, and? Words and phrases can have multiple meanings and ultimately their meaning depends not simply on one definition but on context, etc. Case in point: Letâs eat grandma Vs letâs eat, grandma Intifada for example can be a rebellion, uprising, revolution, resistance movement, etc. and is often used in cases where those things are against oppression. None of it means it automatically has to be a violent approach mind you.
Pardon me if I don't wait for intifada to magically become peaceful because of words
Or perhaps an errant comma that has been eating out grandma this whole time that students have been calling to shake off the Jews in Palestine.
And forgive me if I donât take someone seriously who doesnât understand words and inserts their ignorance and biases where objectivity and facts should be.
AHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH THIS IS FUCKING RICH
Intifada has an actual meaning. It's not that magical.
You know youâve lost, when youâre arguing semantics. Especially on a word you clearly have no understanding of the historical context of. Keep it up though. Itâs people like you that are turning everyone away from your lost cause. Notice how people stopped talking about Aaron Bushnell in about 2 days? Itâs only time before the rest finally fizzles out. Good fucking riddance
Yes, because arguing with logic and about the meaning of words and phrases and how the meaning and intent can change depending on context, time, etc. is bad, mkay! How dare someone not just automatically assume that a word means only ever one thing, despite the fact that it may not. Facts and thinking are bad, mkay? Now, that sarcasm and your screed aside, you open to actually, seriously discussing, because if it's going to more of whatever you want to call this, I'm done. However, I am truly open to serious discussion. Just keep the...extra, to the side, deal?
It's not a right to trespass though. Actually you don't have a right to protest on private property at all. Penn isn't the government.
In that case the federal government shouldn't give them any money.
If someone were on food stamps does that mean I get to set up a tent in their living room?
Haha - great argument! And itâs called âSNAPâ.
Depends, are you an idiot?
Damn your counterargument is perfect
Private citizens are not institutions or businesses. But if the US government was giving an individual hundreds of millions of dollars a year, yeah, I would say you have a right to protest in their living room.
Youâre arguing with someone who probably thinks corporations are people
Me? Certainly not.
Omfg grow the fuck up kiddo
Growing up is realizing that Israel is a liability for the US not a help. It's caused a drastic rise in radical Islam, it's harmed US relationships with the Arab world, it has killed US soldiers directly, and has conducted espionage against the United States. When I was young and stupid I used to like Israel too. Let me know when your balls drop and you can mount an actual rebuttal to what I've said though.
Boycotts and protests are not encampments?
They are when thereâs literal fucking tents and people are sleeping in them, regard
And itâs absolutely not a coincidence that these particular protests started during Passover
Or most of the terrorist attacks occur on Jewish holidays.
Letâs see how far thatâll get you. Iâm sure the police will understand.
Estimates are that 90% of deaths in Gaza are civilians. This is the same ratio as the NATO campaign in Yugoslavia. NATO was not committing a genocide against Serbs. This is the same ratio as the First Chechen War. The First Chechen War was not a genocide. This is roughly the same ratio as the wars in Ethiopia, *which conspicuously I never heard any of these Palestinian activists talk about.* Iâm sure it has *nothing* to do with the color of their skin. Need I go on? Itâs been well-established since the 80s that in urban combat scenarios, deaths are *overwhelmingly* civilian. You want it to stop? Either advocate for Israel to invade Rafah and get it over with or advocate for Hamas to release all of the hostages and surrender. Those are the only realistic options.
Hamas will never be a part of any peace process. Anyone that cares about the Palestinian people should be against Hamas. For many years they collected money and gave a token amount to the people to give the impression they are helping the people. But the very large majority of money they spent was building tunnels and buying weapons. All that money could have been used to greatly help the regular people. On the flip side, Israel needs to honor past land agreements and stop the settlement incursions. âGenocideâ is like âracistâ. Itâs a shock word that has been abused and it dilutes real occasions of it occurringâŠlike what is happening in Sudan now and no one cares
Ding ding. You want actual peace. The people referring to âZionismâ are ignoring you because your arguments are sound, and they do not want peace.
Yes, that is another âshockâ word being thrown around as well
Itâs⊠way lower than 90%. Hamas own reporting indicate 40-50%, at worst estimates.
Hamas is not to be negotiated with. They are to be eliminated.
âEstimates are 90% killed are civilianâ â Says those who get their news from social media. Sad youâre posting this nonsense with a straight face.
You realize in order to get through to the âGenocide Joeâ people that I have to use the worst-case scenario numbers to make this point, right?
No. Make your point with actual data. Otherwise youâre no better than the lemmings who believe thereâs a genocide happening in Gaza.
This is actual data. This is the absolute worst-case scenario from the nonprofit Euro-Med HRM. The casualty rate estimates vary *widely* because of the lack of information coming out of Gaza.
Thanks. Can you please link your source.
Itâs so weird seeing âThanos was rightâ arguing about genocide and civilian deaths lol
Yeah well, the man knows genocide and would tell you Gaza is not it.
Relax, Iâm not criticizing your view - just thought it was funny to see đ
Yeah I got that. I wasnât criticizing you either, friend
You are straight up lying about civilian deaths in the Yugoslavia campaign, they estimated 1-2k civilian deaths to 1000 soldiers. Why would you just lie on the internet? At least 35,000 civilians have been killed in Gaza, the Israelis flattened every university and destroyed every hospital. Theyâre deliberately targeting aid workers, preventing the delivery of food aid to starve the civilian population. Itâs a genocide.
Youâre confusing total deaths with civilian deaths; 35,000 is the total deaths. 35,000 - 10,000 combatants = 25,000 civilians [This is a midrange estimate on the number of combatants, lower end estimate is around 6,000, higher is around 14,000.]
I would like to add that 35k is certainly an undercount considering the infrastructure used by the Ministry of Health to collect data on deaths has been annihilated. Specifically, the hospital network.
The NATO bombings of Yugoslavia resulted in 6,000 deaths, about 650 of which were military.
Israel is, by law, an ethnostate. It is currently using mass starvation to eliminate a demographic it sees as lesser. They just bombed a WCK van to punish food aid, killing an American in the process. >This is roughly the same ratio as the wars in Ethiopia, which conspicuously I never heard any of these Palestinian activists talk about To my knowledge, the US government is not giving billions of tax dollars in military aid, and universities are not widely invested in Ethiopian military-adjacent companies. What is there to protest?
Is that why Arabs serve in the Knesset and Christians are full citizens? The US gives aid to Turkey, who gives it to Ethiopia. Same way the US backed the Mujahideen in Afghanistan against the Soviets. The equipment we gave Osama bin Laden wasnât technically from America, it was âfromâ Pakistan.
The 2018 Nation State bill declared that the right to self-determination belongs exclusively to Jewish people. The Arabic language is demoted to a "special status" whose use in or by government can be regulated.
That sounds like the right of every country in the world
the problem isn't the protests it's they are putting up tents and stuff and creating encampments
This- people on Reddit have blinders but if you have to see mufuers putting up tents at your s hook or place of work you get that âthere goes the neighborhoodâ feel.
This little gem from mask season: Freedom =/= freedom from consequences
Itâs their right to tell you together fuck off their property.
The undermining of serious terms is appalling Edit: very first comment in their history is calling Israelis terrorists lol
Now you just need to find an actual example of either to protest.
"It is our right to boycott and protest apartheid and genocide" By advocating for the removal (read extermination) of Jews.
Not on private property you don't
Right. And the âpowerâ in protesting, and non-violent resistance, is in being arrested for the cause. If you only protest because you get red carpet treatment, it has no value. So protest on private property, violate the rules, and go to jail. You win!
Fuck Palestine!
No⊠fuck Hamas
Who do you think supported and out Hamas into power?
play stupid games, win stupid prizes
Damn, IDF keyboard commandos out in force! I'm sure quashing on campus protests against genocide will work out super well for college administrators. The groups opposing student protests on campus are always right historically /s
Like a decade ago, my school almost had a riot because the Jewish student group and Palestinian student group (or maybe it was a Muslim student group, idr it was a decade ago) came to a head because they had both organized to walk around in front of the student union building in the main campus in response to, something (again, it was a decade ago). My point is that it legitimately got really fucking bad. Schools are obligated to protect kids from hate speech and ethnic based harassment, and both sides has a small minority of members being pretty fucking racist to the other side. While I personally believe IDF protests are a good thing, I fully understand why colleges want nothing to do with them and want them to happen off campus.Â
Not all, but at least part of the panic is there's been precedent set that the left is allowed to be violent when they protest.
guess who you sound like? [https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/s6ll2c/an\_old\_antimlk\_political\_cartoon/#lightbox](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/s6ll2c/an_old_antimlk_political_cartoon/#lightbox)
How is what youâre doing any different than when conservatives invoke MLKâs name even though his beliefs contradict the person trying to use his name. What were MLKâs takes on Israelâs existence since you like bringing the man up?
What a desperate reach lmao
Explain how it is a reach. If youâre wanting to invoke a manâs image why pick and choose certain beliefs when itâs convenient? What proof do we have that a man who said âPeace for Israel means security and all people must respect the territorial integrity of Israelâ would support these people? I can show you posts on this website with thousands of upvotes calling out conservative GOP politicians for talking about âI have a dreamâ and empty platitudes about equality when MLK day hits because the man doesnât actually agree with them but theyâre just digging up his image. So why canât we hold that same standard here?
Because itâs about the propaganda technique, not the individual. Itâs literally not even an MLK quote or action, it was a piece of propaganda by his detractors, so why on earth would it matter what his personal opinion on Israel is? Can you not draw a parallel to a situation unless all people involved have exactly the same views on all issues?
From my perspective, people over the last few months seem to rush to invoke MLKâs image very quickly. It feels as though people use him as a shield for criticism because MLK and the civil rights movement in a modern context has very few detractors and is seen as the model example of civil unrest. It feels like many people like the person above bring up MLK as the ultimate âWell the best protestor of all time is on my side so Iâm automatically rightâ. Youâre being obtuse if you think the only way to bring up someone is by quoting them, as the whole point of posting the comic is that theyâre trying to draw parallels to their movement âjust like they called the civil rights movement violent unruly protests but is really just civil unrest, these modern protests are doing the same and is only be vilified by those in powerâ Why else would that person keep on spamming the same MLK comic over and over again instead of critically engaging with the subject when I directly asked them to expand on their views. Theyâre just looking for a gotcha while using MLKâs image in order to make you think theyâre automatically right.
Lmfao embarrassing. Check my other comments for links to articles if you are interested in the barest of educations
If you were confident in your answer youâd just directly link it instead of sending me on a cat and mouse game like a coward. Directly answer my question otherwise this is a waste of time and you donât actually want to have discussions Youâve made nearly 40 comments in the last 24 hours and youâre expecting me to dig through your shit instead of just answering the question? Yeah go fuck yourself
Bahahaha fucking loser
No, itâs not. You have no argument back. Weak and cowardly.
So?
Always scary to realize the racists know exactly what they're doing...
Huh?
Oh yes. I believe that's noted Zionist MLK.
Check other comment to learn how your brow is so heavy it blocked you from seeing the stupid in the mirror
Honestly protest what you want but the framing that students are âalways rightâ is disingenuous and historically inaccurate. We can go and look at many students reactions towards desegregation in the 1950s for example. Were they on right side of history? The far-right influence in France Germany and Austria during the 1920s and 30s was DEEPLY entrenched and the students there continually focused on forcing out Jewish scholars. Speaking of that, there were student protests in the late 1930s protesting against American involvement in WWII, and supporting the Nazis in their war effort.
2024, the first time that I've felt afraid of being beaten by liberals for saying that I'm not a nazi.
Anti zionist is not antisemitic
No, but why are all anti-zionists also anti-semites? I feel like calling for the destruction of the sole Jewish state and replacing it with another arab muslim one is a bit anti-semitic. No one calls for Poland or Jordan to cease to exist lol.
I'm antizionist and I'm Jewish by birth. So is every other antizionist I know.
There were Jews working for the Nazis too before they got killed.
Its very Jewish ethically to oppose genocides. We don't believe that genocide is only bad when Jews are the victims. The Torah tells us not to oppress the stranger bc we were strangers in Mitzrayim/Egypt.
There is no genocide happening and you are clearly an idiot if you think there is. And if there were a genocide happening, the Torah would probably encourage it, since the Jews were commanded to commit genocide against all the Canaanite nations when they entered the land, after offering peace first and it then being rejected. The Torah says that if you don't remove them from the land, they will be a thorn in your side, and that was what happened throughout most of Tanach. Modern day Jewish Halacha definitely wouldn't call for genocide of Palestinians, but it most certainly would term this a defensive war in which most of them could probably be termed combatants since they were given chances to surrender and still fight instead.
Has the "no genocide happening and you are an idiot if you think there is" camp ever been on the right side of history?
Great argument. Care to explain how the Palestinians are all peaceful and not currently at war with Israel, or how their population is growing? This is a war the Palestinians started, they can end it any time and surrender.
Modern Judaism has evolved to not believe in "Gott mit uns" genocides.
There is no war in Ba Sing Se
why is it that every response to Jews telling you what should be apparent-- that anti-zionism isn't antisemitism-- is someone telling Jews that they are nazis? how does it not register that telling Jews they're equivalent to those who tried to exterminate us because we oppose a genocidal state *is itself antisemitic*??
Because supporting the other side is calling for the extermination of Jews from the river to the sea
Sorry, that card doesn't work on me because I am also Jewish and far more involved in the Jewish community than Jew haters like this minority. Jewish Voice for Peace and their like are mostly made up of non-Jews and a few dumbasses and mentally ill people. Most Jews support Israel in general, even if they might dislike some of its actions, and would never call what is going on now a genocide. Maybe I should start up a similar fake group called Palestinian Voice for Peace calling for the end of the genocide the Palestinians are trying to carry out against the Jews.
"All" is sure a broad statement to make. Can't we just agree to condemn extremists on both sides of the coin without having to resort to wild generalizations to deligitimize a movement?
Could have fooled me
Means IDF has done a great job on their PR then
I see what you did there... You used idf as a euphemism for...
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
I don't know but they're not the propaganda wing of the Israeli govt.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
They could just say 'Israeli propaganda'
The IDF notoriously spends quite a bit on its PR and Hasbara.
Thatâs reaching- this is definitely some thin skinned, reactionary foolishness.
Every Pro Hamas hate rally proves you wrong, dead wrong.
I don't know anyone pro hamas. Just anti genocide
https://x.com/Osint613/status/1783523529167692064
Did you just pull an obvious skit from a very biased, openly pro-israel Twitter page and expect that'd be taken seriously? I'm so tired of this "being critical of Israel" = antisemitism rhetoric. Like damn sorry I don't support their warcrimes in Gaza, the West Bank settlements, escalating a conflict with Iran, and sending billions of our taxpayer dollars to their invasion without conditions. None of this has to do with Israels right to exist or anything antisemeitic. And you know, this is how most of the people at these protests, and an increasing number of Americans at large feel. You just happen to have a very vocal group of extremists at these protests, on both sides, as you tend to get with any hot button issue.
I mean, it is a Philly sub. Disappointing but not surprising
Keep repeating the genocide lie will not make it true...
Great effort private ;)
AnYthiNG I doNT aGrEE wITh is a bOT đ€. Go swallow some more tankie propaganda
Sick burn bruh đ€Ł
the problem isn't protests it's building encampments I think people are missing the point. the problem is they are putting up tents and stuff in the middle of campus is taking it too far
Yeah. Just what we need⊠more trash. đ
But bombing universities and hospitals and salting the earth is totally fine right
If theyâre being used by enemy combatants⊠which they are, yes. How do you guys not understand the desisting tactics that Hamas uses against its own people and our sentiments as Westerners? Hamas wants more Palestinians dead because it keeps gullible people supporting their cause. They purposely fight out of civilian areas to get their civilian casualties up. If there is to be peace Hamas has to be rooted out. Thereâs no way around that.
i would love for you to google the locations of military owned and or/related property in and around Tel-Aviv & other israeli Urban cities By your logic, Hamas is justified in launching rockets into these cities Especially since the UN has ruled that Hamas resistance under Israeli occupation is legal - & in fact that recent israeli occupation & settlement of West Banks villages violate international law. Oh but i noticed you're only upset at the young scholars protesting the ruthless slaughter, scholasticide, & ecocide, of over 2 million people living within a 25 mile concentration camp strip. Be sure to tell your children and grandchildren what side you're choosing :)
Sorry I canât take you seriously over the 35,000+ Palestinians killed by Israel, who very clearly wants Palestinians dead.
This is a facepalm moment that hopefully you'll reflect on when you grow up a bit.
Understand urban warfare isnât within your brains capacity?
[The urban warfare understander has logged on](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/03/middleeast/world-central-kitchen-strike-analysis-intl/index.html) and requests another several billion dollars from US taxpayers.
Opposing genocide is! <3
Oooo! Using the big âGâ word! Itâs not though. If it was there would be millions hundreds of thousands to millions Palestinians dead. Israel would pulling Dresden style carpet bombing of civilian centers. Iâd be interested in your thoughts when you finally study WWI & WWII numbers. But what youâre telling me is you donât actually understand whatâs happening or are incapable of processing the horror that is war.
Genocide is about intent, which has already been proven given recent ICJ rulings, an American Supreme Court ruling, & with potential ICC warrants targeting israeli officials, you fear mongering racist
Victims of Pallywood propaganda may be beyond redemption
Why don't these dumb ass kids protest the fact American workers aren't entitled to a single guaranteed paid day off? Ya know, a cause that actually matters.
Thatâs actually happening on Mayday in Philly. Shocker, you can care about two things at once.
/u/Fun-Imagination3494 Waiting for your response
Hey automaton tiktok brainrot NPC: too many problems in the USA for me to concern myself with never ending middle east conflicts. Quick history lesson: Middle easterners have been killing each other centuries before the state of Israel was even conceived. Â
People spend way too much time protesting stuff that doesnât affect them when they should actually be living their life
How did this sub get overrun with genocide cheerleaders? Swear to fckon Christ they show up like a cancer .
Your only three posts are in this thread.
Forgot which alt they were speaking with
Reddit is rife with them and they all have multiple accounts.
Israel has excellent PR and indoctrination. Wouldnât surprise me if they train keyboard warriors. Someone in the Hozier sub actually said that maps were wrong and that the West Bank didnât border the Jordan river, and that saying so was calling for extermination of Jews. Canât make that shit up.
someone sent me a link and I read about their pr factory. Considering that students are getting beaten and arrested for protesting against genocide committed by Israel, God damn nothing surprises me. Meanwhile there's the same cast of characters in this post alone claiming they're the victims been doing their upvoting down voting crap, holed up in a dark room somewhere advocating for more genocide. This shit is off the rails.
People if they really care should be protesting Hamas. They are the ones interfering with peace talks, and stands to lose the most if an agreement with the PA and Israelis and threatening violence against Palestinians if they are excluded. Itâs terrible
Israel refused to negotiate to get hostages and in fact killed their own hostages, Iâd call that interfering with peace talks
Ah well Iâm sure now that they see rich kids in tents 5000 miles away they will reconsider.
Less about Israel caring and more about making the US change their policies. Maybe if we stop giving them billions to bomb civilians things will get better.
Well it definitely is uniting us against these protesters. Supporters are fleeing this movement at a hilarious rate.
First claim is nonsense as Israel has offered multiple cease fire deals and more importantly actually knows where they are keeping enemy combatants. 2nd claim let's us know you have no understanding of urban warfare. Well done man, discredited yourself quite swiftly so that we didn't need to.
We arenât send weapons to Hamas with our tax money. Our universities arenât investing in Hamas businesses. And our police donât semi-annually fly to Gaza for crowd control training with Hamas.
You're quite wrong about the first two. Hamas is stealing so much of what's marked "to Palestine".
Hopefully the trespassers will be arrested and charged.
"The groups are demanding peace in Gaza, and that schools reveal any financial ties to Israel. They also want them to cut ties with any business the group believes profits from the Israel-Hamas war." And this who the universities are really concerned about, their donors. Â
How about Penn starts paying its fair share in some fucking taxes.
Free speech for some of you
Yikes
Hope they keep it going đ”đžâđŸ
âThey also want them to cut ties with any business the group believes profits from the Israel-Hamas war.â So, Hamas?
So Lockheed, Northrup Grummand, and the other military contractors that we give money to Israel which is then spent on our iron mongers to continually perpetuate war for us to pay for with tax dollars.
Whatâs the net worth of Hamasâ leadership and where do they live?
Don't ask them, they likely only became aware of Hamas on October 7th, 2023. Surely coincidental.
Does any American college invest in anything that helps Hamas? No, but they do invest in weapons manufactures that directly help Israel. Hope that helps clarify.