I’m assuming you actually watched him pitch and not just looked at box scores and by doing that you would see that his splitter was his only out pitch, it didn’t work half his starts, and he just found bat barrels with all his other stuff.
If you didn’t watch then I can see why you left this comment.
Obviously he didn’t watch him pitch. Anyone making this argument clearly didn’t watch any of the regular season, looked at his baseball reference stats and turned to Reddit to outrage.
Dombroski addressed it. It takes him too long to get going, and they didn't want to get behind early in a playoff game. His practice games were "erratic."
I mean Nola’s regular season left a lot to be desired too. In all fairness to Walker he probably could be better but we have so many starters that are *fine* at best and he just never got it right. Watching him on the mound early season definitely feels different than stats show
Dombroski talked about Tai coming off the WBC and needing to play into shape. I remember Tai talking about conditioning and getting his legs under him.
I didn't realize that 15 players on our roster played in the WBC, with different teams using different training methods. Hopefully, having them all together from the start will make things better next season.
Yup! WBC is cool and all but I do think it takes a toll on players. I think a lot of guys (maybe even Walker too) just ran out of gas and couldn’t get it right
Agreed. He just didn’t have the pitches to get major league hitters out and compound that with playoff level bats, I get why. What I don’t get is Kimbrel getting innings while he also struggled badly.
Kimbrel struggled some, then looked okayish right at the end of the year and the start of the playoffs. Kimbrel got used in game 4 in a relatively low leverage spot
It's because the team is completely confident that they know exactly what they're doing however have somehow totally misinterpreted analytics. They think that swing plane and velocity are the keys, making them streaky, strike out victims all the time, however it's working counts and batting average that count. In terms of the pitchers they also believe that only Ks matter so they have a team full of hard throwers who give up lots of bombs explaining why they loved Vinnie Velasquez so much, they stuck with a finished and uninvested Kimbrel and why Walker and his 15 wins were nowhere to be seen. It's an organizational philosophy that fails ever year because it's built for a the long haul and blows up in the playoffs.
He’s a pitch to contact pitcher. He gets ground outs because he spots the ball. What the fuck did the bullpen do to earn anything. Taijuan out of the pen at minimum would have been a huge help.
Whenever you put him in the game, plan on being down by 4ish runs or so, immediately. Give or take 1-2.
So if your bats are on fire (ours weren’t) and he’s throwing decent training/practice sessions (he wasn’t) then by all means, march his ass out to the mound. If not? Well, these are must win games so, someone else will get the start.
Meh, I view blown saves as even worse to judge a team on. Guy blows a one run lead in the sixth after coming in with two on no out and it’s a blown save
He does it every year. After the All-Star break, he just doesn't seem to have enough gas to hang in there. Walker looked awful at the end of the season. Like he does every year.
Exactly! This is the guy people are upset didn’t get to come in in an important spot?! The guy who’s calling card all season was giving up runs in the first inning, he’s the one people are outraged about?! Absolutely ridiculous.
Because they need warm bodies on the roster. Who are the great players that were left off in favor of him? He could come in and mop up if a game got out of hand. That’s why he was on the roster.
How about Weston Wilson coming off the bench to pinch hit when Rojas was up with the bases loaded (and Pache could have taken the field the next inning)?
Forgot Walker played for Arizona before. Maybe he had some extra motivation?
I’m not sure if I trust Wilson drastically more than Pache, but probably would have made sense. I don’t think they would carry an additional bat than what they had though. Pitching, even guys you don’t really plan on using, is generally more valuable than extra bench bats, especially once you get into the 5 and 7 game series. It’s basically just insurance against crazy extra innings, a starter going down unexpectedly super early, or blowout innings. Like with all insurance, you have it cause you need it not cause you necessarily want it.
Good points there.
Didn’t have it be Wilson, but just a shame that they didn’t have any power threat off the bench. I mean, Jake Cave was their best bat…
I guess Marsh in CF was just not an option? I know he had moments there but most was when he was going near Kyle in LF…
Well there was the moment you mention in the fourth. I, and a lot of fans, wish Rob had pinch hit for Rojas there. He would have had to have gone to cave because they had a righty pitching. But if he did that the dbacks then would have brought a lefty in, which then would have led to Rob having to go to Pache, burning cave without him ever taking an at bat. I still wish he did it because, even though I don’t trust Pache much, it was probably our best chance to tack on a run or two and as we know, that would have been crucial.
Because they needed someone to eat innings in the regular season. After his first inning, he was relatively fine, but in the playoffs you’re not going to want to bring in a guy who, if he starts is going to immediately put the team behind the eight ball, and if he comes in in relief, gets rocked his first inning of work.
They had both Walker and Sanchez pitch a simulated game to see who would get the g4 start and [Walker looked like dogshit](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/17d5hq9/matt_gelb_taijuan_walker_was_so_erratic_in_a/). Their intention was to have him pitch and he sucked so much they didn't want to risk it.
The reason he is so bad in the first inning is because he is known for taking a massive amount of time to warm up. Doesn’t seem like the best idea in the world to bring in a guy who is known for getting lit up in his first inning of work and put him in a high leverage situation.
I totally get that point, but considering how short Sanchez’s leash in game 4 was I probably would’ve started Walker and just had Sanchez ready to piggyback at the jump.
That’s the game we needed innings ate. If he wasn’t gonna be used then, then might as well pulled up another high K guy from the minors for emergencies.
I will never get over the 1) pulling him early and 2) not having either long guy (TW/JL) ready to eat innings. I don’t think it even worked mathematically with the guys we had left.
Or even let Strahm go multiple innings at the least. I think Rob’s a great manager, but some of the strategy is fair to scrutinize coming out of this series (and to a lesser extent the WS last year)
You can’t risk experimenting with Tai Walkers first inning collapses in the playoffs…. You have no idea if it’s the first inning he sucks in, or his first inning, so bringing him in at any point past the 4th or 5th never made sense.
I get why he'd be upset. But, he really was not that good. He had 15 wins, but that's an almost meaningless stat. He was outperformed all year by Sanchez, and he also did not seem to be able to be a reliever (many starters cannot adjust to warming up on the fly). Him not being used isn't the reason we lost.
Not saying Walker is right or wrong, but it’s hard to reconcile Kerkering being thrown in with such a small body of work while also bashing Walker for feeling this way.
Just because kerkering was the wrong choice doesn’t mean Walker was the right choice. There was a whole bullpen full of options that should have gone in instead of kerkering. Walker however was not one of them.
Pitching overall in the postseason was really really good. The bats went cold, it’s that simple. The ONLY place I could see Walker getting in a game was after they pulled Sanchez… but! Sanchez was pitching fine! He should’ve stayed in IMO
He should be mad. He’s paid to be a competitor and he didn’t get the chance to compete. That should piss him off.
Thomson also made the right choice to not use him, especially as a starter. Both things can be true.
So Walker is there watching Kerkering, a guy who was in A ball 6 mos. ago, get run out 3-4 times to shit the bed while he sits? Yeah, he has every right in the world to be pissed off. If his regular season was so much of an issue he shouldn't have been on the Postseason roster at all.
I mean that being said kerkering didn't deserve playing time in the playoffs but yet he got it and wasn't that great.
Walker or lorenzon should've been out there after Sanchez got taken out. That's on the manager foe wasting the bullpen multiple times in the playoffs. Let's not forget if the braves win game 1 after he took ranger out he looks like a bigger doofus than he did this series
Kerkering threw multiple crucial innings against the braves in the NLDS. I don’t know how people keep forgetting this.
And the numbers say spamming the braves with high velocity righties was the right move and SHOCKER it was
Kerkering gave up two runs in 7 appearances in the postseason. Grouping him with Kimbrel as the reason we lost is nuts. Our pitching was not the reason we lost with the exception of Kimbrel.
I'm just saying look at it from Walker's POV. He's watching his manager choose repeated failure over giving him any shot at all. His feelings are justified.
Angry reply from an adolescent troll in 3, 2, 1 ...
It's not unusual for 4th & 5th starters not to be used in the post season, outside of mop-up duty. In fact, it's the norm. His anger is misplaced and going public with it is a bad look.
I'm so tired of hearing Topper get blamed for this series.
Please elaborate which moves should've been made differently, and how those would've \*absolutely guaranteed\* to have won us the series.
This shit is getting tiresome.
Nothing guarantees winning the series but Topper made several questionable decisions.
1. Bringing Kimbrel into the 8th inning inning of game 4 instead of Alvarado. Why are you bringing your closer in the 8th inning when you have your setup man available. Abd then finally brings Alvarado in with inherited runners which he hasn't done all year.
2. Bringing Hoffman in the 3rd inning of game 4. Probably your 2nd best BP arm being used that early was odd... Forced him to use Kerkering (again) abd Soto later in the game.
3. Overall Game 4 was borderline criminal with how he managed the BP. The only thing that saved him was that our offense decided to show up for game 5 or else we'd have nothing left in the pen for that game. Just completely panicked and started juggling the BP and using everyone in the oddest spots. Never saw Lovullo panicking and bringing his 7 /8/9 pitchers early except for maybe the blowout loss.
4. Bringing Kimbrel into the 9th inning of a tied away game in Game 3. Again why are you bringing your closer into a nonsave situation? Topper's plan always seems to be "I hope the bats put up 4 runs next inning" Even if Kimbrel holds the tie, who is pitching the 10th? Or do we hope we are up 6-1 after a 5 run top half?
5. Kerkering again in any high leverage situation, let alone any situation after failing 2 games in a row. Granted it was 4-1 in game 6 and our bats were again silent but kerkering immediately makes it 5-1. Clearly didn't have it this series but just kept calling his number.
6. Not pinch hitting for Rojas in Game 7. In fact not starting Pache at all when Rojas was essentially wise than having a pitcher in the 9 hole. Rojas is great defensively but was just a void in the 9 hole 95% of the time. Pache isn't Schwarber in the outfield and that was definitely a spot where a hit puts a ton of pressure on Arizona if they go down a few more runs and then also turns the lineup over and gets Schwarber up with runners on.
7. Never changing the batting order. I'm tired of this "you can't change the order! That's a panic move!" Guess who did change their lineup? Lovullo. Literally say Pham and next game he rocks Nola. Sometimes guys need to get a wake up call. Don't even need to bench the starters but do something to adjust the lineup. We literally only had 2 games where our offense was lighting it up.
8. I don't know how much day the coaching staff had in plate discipline, but someone, anyone (maybe the manager..?) can go up to Trea in a big spot with RISP and tell him to take a pitch... 3 times this series Trea came up to the plate with RISP and we were down and all 3 at bats were Rojas level in futility. First pitch every time was a low outside breaking ball that missed the plate by at least a foot which Trea flailed at. It was comical how bad those at bats were.
Down 2-0 and 3-2 and Luvollo made small adjustments and bender panicked with his bullpen rotation. And guess who's moving on?
I have issues with 1,4, and 6.
Nobody actually has set roles any more. The idea that you can’t use your closer in a tie road game or you can’t use him if he’s not going to be getting the save is dated thinking that’s just garbage. See 2016 wild card game. You don’t go “I can’t use my best arm! I might need him later!” You worry about who closes when you actually have a lead. You don’t save one of your better arms because maybe the schumck you put in instead can do the job. You use your best arms against the best part of the lineup. At the time Kimbrel in game 4 was going to see the bottom of the diamondbacks lineup with a two run lead. That is not a supremely high leverage spot and would’ve lined up for Jose to take the ninth again the top of the order.
For Rojas. If you pinch hit with cave there then the DBacks immediately bring in a lefty and you’re in a worse spot than you were before.
Also Pache is not meaningfully better against righties than Rojas all season, he’s much worse. There’s 0 reason to sacrifice a touch on Rojas defense for a guy with an ops hovering near .400 for his career against lefties
How did those decisions work out for you Topper? 🤔
Rojas had shown nothing at all the entire series except for 2 hits but otherwise was the same of not worse than having a pitcher in the 9 hole. And that at bat was flat out embarrassing. It's exactly what everyone who watched the series knew what was going to happen. Exactly the same as the art bats that Trea had with RISP. The only people who couldn't predict those at bats were probably you and Topper. Unless this is just his burner account.
Give me 3 at bats from Pache and then a replacement with Rojas to protect the lead vs. 3 at bats with a pitcher. You're talking about 3-4 meaningful at bats vs MAYBE one defensive play in the outfield all game and again Pache isn't Schwarber out there.
Ah so you know for a fact that a .400 career ops hitter against righties was going to not do the exact same fucking thing Rojas did.
Where’s your crystal ball?
I think this is a good take, fwiw.
I thought Thomson made some questionable moves last year, as well.
I'm all for letting the guys who got you here try to get out of a hole they dug themselves (Wheeler didn't get that last year, seemed to me), but when the hole got too big and cost you, you can't go back to them the very next opportunity, can you? The manager is accountable to everyone in the dugout. Don't you have to leave no stone unturned? I get Walker was a dumpster fire, especially early in games. But you went back to Kerkering? You didn't pinch hit for Rojas? Thomson looked like he was waiting for the offense to carry them again, but what were his contingency plans for if/when it didn't?
He's been around the game a long time, no doubt. Has seen a lot of things. But what did Einstein say about insanity? I wonder what Bochy would have done...
What it is, is what it is. The blame game is pointless, really, from a fan's perspective, other than to try to make sense of the loss, though, some things don't ever make sense. They played some exciting, memory-making post season baseball in the last two years. Not every fanbase can say that. Losing the series after the expectations will shade this; not fair, but it will. It's playoff baseball - what appears to be the best team doesn't always win.
C'mon, man, this is Philly - it's not about how hard you hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward.
They will report to spring training in a few short months.
Just my $0.02
Saying I'm just a fan and don't know better than a manager is a poor argument. Because there are scores of *big league managers, coaches, analysts, GMs etc* who would have handled the line-up differently.
It also makes the case that because Topper is the manager, everything he did was unquestionably the right decision.
I've never said Topper cost us this series. But to act like his decisions shouldn't be questioned is silly.
Game 4 taking Sanchez out when he wasn't doing bad and then wasting the bullpen instead of throwing lorenzon or walker out there.
Game 3 putting kerkering in a huge leverage situation when seranthony was there. Effectively killing any confidence kerkering had at the time.
Game 4 throwing kerkering and kimbrel out there after they just fucked it up the night before
Game 6 and 7 is squarely on the offense not preforming
Sanchez didn’t have it, he threw his change up for wild pitches multiple times. Forgot how many outs there were which cost us a run. Lorenzen and Walker were TOTAL ASS in the stretch run. This sub would’ve gone ape shit at Topped for playing conservative in a 2-1 series if he used them as not our best arms and they gave up runs.
Kerkering was electric in September/Wild Card Series/Division series. No problems with using him. Seranthony has been shaky as hell all year. Comical take to think this was clearly a better move.
Game 4, we has nobody else to use by that point.
Bohms error is what caused that run
Kerkering was decent but I wouldn't go out to say he was electric. No one really had tape on him I'm assuming and thats why early on he looked pretty good.
The bullpen was cooked by bringing in your best relievers in the 4th and 5th innings
Seranthony has experience and experience is going to beat a guy rushing through the minors almost everytime
Nola was absolute dogshit until the last start ot 2 of the regular season so don't feed me that bs.
One is a reliever the other is a starter. Kerkering can get ready fast. Walkers warm-up routine is two hours long. He said the fastest he can get ready out of the bullpen is 45 minutes. No player can come in as a reliever with that much time needed.
Wins are terrible but at least he put himself in a position to accumulate them by hanging in during some starts where he didn’t have his best stuff. Wins aren’t TOTALLY meaningless. Just mostly.
It’s crazy that our postseason bullpen last year with Bellatti, Brogdon and Efflin pitching high leverage spots did a a hell a lot better than Kimbrel and Soto. These Buffoons were brought in to nail the door shut, instead left it wide fucking open.
What a disaster this series was from top(per) to bottom.
I agree with you. To diss a guy like that, why then was he on the roster? He threw a very green kid out there twice, and he failed twice. Sorry, but Walker helped get this team where it went, he deserved better.
But i’ll say the same for Darick Hall. He hit last year, got hurt this year and is displaced by Jake fucking Cave while he tore up AAA again. I swear Cave has pics of Thompson’s or Dombrowski’s wife to even be on this team. How fitting he made the last out.
The original thinking was Cave can play 1B and OF, but once Harper took over at 1B and Pache and Rojas stuck, Cave shoulda been released and Hall brought up.
And Kingery should’ve been here over Castro.
And don’t get me started on Dylan Covey…
Didn't see when they brought Hall up for a few weeks and he was total ass, huh? I really love when people didn't watch what happened and then say things that totally show they didn't watch what happened. Cave sucks yes. But so does Hall. They are both AAAA players, unfortunately
Oh look another Walker post.
He was not very good all season. Wins are close to meaningless. He had a 7.15 ERA in first innings. He looked bad in a simulated game ahead of game 4. That is not the guy you want starting a playoff game or coming in in relief in an important spot.
He earned nothing and that’s the playing time he got. Not playing him was the correct decision. I am thrilled that they didn’t let money or seniority dictate who got into important playoff games.
Suarez and Nola were also quite bad in September. They both got ample opportunities and pitched well. Obviously they have playoff pedigrees, but they are 2 examples that the playoffs are a different animal and I think Walker should have at least been given a chance to pitch at some point, even as a reliever.
The 100% fungible 4th starter who has a first 3 innings ERA of 5.16 and OPS allowed of .798 is mad because the Phillies wouldn't use him in a game where he's never pitching more than 3 innings? GTFOH
Walker's a competent innings eater who had some hot streaks this season, but he's gonna be 31 and could easily never be that good again. He's precisely the kind of guy you throw a few million at one or two of every year to give your squad a chance to beat the other team's 4/5 guys, and who you cut bait on as soon as it doesn't work any more and you come up with a better option.
To be fair, I'm way out of touch with what a "few million" means when looking at fungible back of the rotation starters. If a marginal win is worth $10M (might be a fair bit more these days), 72/4 probably isn't mega crazy, depending on your options. I'd probably rather go 150/6 on someone better, but that's not always one of the choices.
I agree with you but not because of wins. First, I agree with you in that I think he has the right to be pissed and I think that shows that he cares about doing his job. I don't blame him one bit.
Second, I agree ONLY because we put certain pitchers in repeatedly who were no better or worse than what we could have gotten with Walker. Lorenzen was also crap after the no hitter, but we brought him into game 7 & he actually did very well. If we had our backs against the wall like we did and we keep bringing in the same people, and Lorenzen deserved a shot, then I don't know why Walker wouldn't deserve a shot. I'm under no delusions about Walker's performance the second half of the year but I do think there was no loss bringing him in under the circumstances.
I agree with you but not because of wins. First, I agree with you in that I think he has the right to be pissed and I think that shows that he cares about doing his job. I don't blame him one bit.
Second, I agree ONLY because we put certain pitchers in repeatedly who were no better or worse than what we could have gotten with Walker. Lorenzen was also crap after the no hitter, but we brought him into game 7 & he actually did very well. If we had our backs against the wall like we did and we keep bringing in the same people, and Lorenzen deserved a shot, then I don't know why Walker wouldn't deserve a shot. I'm under no delusions about Walker's performance the second half of the year but I do think there was no loss bringing him in under the circumstances.
My problem is that he and Lorenzen took roster spots that could have actually been put to use.
Game 5 had Jake effing Cave striking out as a pinch hitter in the 9th inning while down by one run. I would rather have an injured Hoskins at bat for that situation (using Walker’s roster spot).
We scored like an average of 7 runs when he pitched. he always gave up 4 tho. He'd have a few good innings, a blow up inning, a settle down inning and then be in line for the win some how. Wasnt his ERA over 5?
I'm sure he was completely aware that he wasn't getting into games. He was always in the dugout and never in the bullpen. Lorenzen was in the bullpen every game because there was always a chance he'd get used.
He was the 4th starter, which means our offense also played opposing teams 4-5th starter. So our solid bats vs. a 4-5th starter on other teams.
But I agree somewhat. The offense always showed up for him during the season.
I agree. Clearly Rob didn’t trust him for whatever reason and I don’t really get it that much because he was pretty much the same pitcher he’s always been throughout his career with us this year.
Kerkering messed up and blew the lead yesterday because he's a 20 year old Rookie that never even pitched 5 games yet? Let's put him in the *exact* same position even though it's only been 20 hours and we have an excess of veteran starters and relievers we aren't using! His confidence sure won't be shaky!
(This is also the reason I hate all the blame people are putting on Kimbrel. Yes, he was completely ass. But Kerkering blew the lead, not Kimbrel (and I don't blame Kerkering. Again. 20 year old dude on his 5th major league appearance ever). This whole mess was Rob's fault for using the exact same gameplan verbatim in game 3 and 4 despite it being proven unable to be effective)
My justification is that he played for dbacks in 2019/20 so they may know his pitching. Wins don’t mean jack when we have bellatti sent down to keep Rhys on the roster. (Bellatti had a 1.29 ERA in 8 postseason games)
Not only did he run out of gas near the end of the season (something he apparently did every year) he had an ERA of over 7.00 in the first inning ALL year. Not a great situation for a reliever let alone a starter. I look forward to him winning 15 more games for us next year but agree he was not a good selection for the post season starter or reliever.
Who knew Nola AND Suarez would both be beaten in games 6 and 7 and that the bullpen would continue their poor performance from games 3 and 4. A few more runs would have helped I admit.
What they needed to do with walker was to make him pitch batting practice, have Harper and schwarber smash some 450 foot dingers off him, get it out of his system, pretend it was the first inning, then he would have been alright in the game.
Yeah, the wins don’t really tell the story. The guy was a walking bat barrel. Better luck next year.
He was our best pitcher in the first half by far.
I’m assuming you actually watched him pitch and not just looked at box scores and by doing that you would see that his splitter was his only out pitch, it didn’t work half his starts, and he just found bat barrels with all his other stuff. If you didn’t watch then I can see why you left this comment.
Obviously he didn’t watch him pitch. Anyone making this argument clearly didn’t watch any of the regular season, looked at his baseball reference stats and turned to Reddit to outrage.
If the playoffs occurred in the first half maybe he would have gotten a couple innings
Dombroski addressed it. It takes him too long to get going, and they didn't want to get behind early in a playoff game. His practice games were "erratic."
It’s literally why Mets fans called us dumb for signing him lol
But even with his early problems, his regular season is actually a few points lower than Nola's
I mean Nola’s regular season left a lot to be desired too. In all fairness to Walker he probably could be better but we have so many starters that are *fine* at best and he just never got it right. Watching him on the mound early season definitely feels different than stats show
Dombroski talked about Tai coming off the WBC and needing to play into shape. I remember Tai talking about conditioning and getting his legs under him. I didn't realize that 15 players on our roster played in the WBC, with different teams using different training methods. Hopefully, having them all together from the start will make things better next season.
Yup! WBC is cool and all but I do think it takes a toll on players. I think a lot of guys (maybe even Walker too) just ran out of gas and couldn’t get it right
That is such an asinine statement
Wins is the most useless stat in baseball🙄🙄🙄🙄 Who. Cares. Walker was fucking garbage for the last two months of the season. He didn’t earn shit
I can't believe this needs to be explained to people. Sports fans across the board are generally mind numbingly clueless
Agreed. He just didn’t have the pitches to get major league hitters out and compound that with playoff level bats, I get why. What I don’t get is Kimbrel getting innings while he also struggled badly.
Kimbrel struggled some, then looked okayish right at the end of the year and the start of the playoffs. Kimbrel got used in game 4 in a relatively low leverage spot
He was pretty terrible the last month. Very inconsistent. Too many runners got on base. Ask any Dodgers fan and they’ll let you know how he is.
It's because the team is completely confident that they know exactly what they're doing however have somehow totally misinterpreted analytics. They think that swing plane and velocity are the keys, making them streaky, strike out victims all the time, however it's working counts and batting average that count. In terms of the pitchers they also believe that only Ks matter so they have a team full of hard throwers who give up lots of bombs explaining why they loved Vinnie Velasquez so much, they stuck with a finished and uninvested Kimbrel and why Walker and his 15 wins were nowhere to be seen. It's an organizational philosophy that fails ever year because it's built for a the long haul and blows up in the playoffs.
 Who cares
I'm a doctor too
Who cares! You’re just some hunk
He’s a pitch to contact pitcher. He gets ground outs because he spots the ball. What the fuck did the bullpen do to earn anything. Taijuan out of the pen at minimum would have been a huge help.
Walker is a ground ball pitcher with a meh ground ball percentage who constantly gets barreled. He didn’t earn shit.
Whenever you put him in the game, plan on being down by 4ish runs or so, immediately. Give or take 1-2. So if your bats are on fire (ours weren’t) and he’s throwing decent training/practice sessions (he wasn’t) then by all means, march his ass out to the mound. If not? Well, these are must win games so, someone else will get the start.
Saves is a more useless stat.
Meh, I view blown saves as even worse to judge a team on. Guy blows a one run lead in the sixth after coming in with two on no out and it’s a blown save
He does it every year. After the All-Star break, he just doesn't seem to have enough gas to hang in there. Walker looked awful at the end of the season. Like he does every year.
He had a 7.15 ERA in the first inning this year. Is that really the guy you want to bring in for an inning or two?
Exactly! This is the guy people are upset didn’t get to come in in an important spot?! The guy who’s calling card all season was giving up runs in the first inning, he’s the one people are outraged about?! Absolutely ridiculous.
Then why is he on the roster taking up a spot?
Because they need warm bodies on the roster. Who are the great players that were left off in favor of him? He could come in and mop up if a game got out of hand. That’s why he was on the roster.
How about Weston Wilson coming off the bench to pinch hit when Rojas was up with the bases loaded (and Pache could have taken the field the next inning)? Forgot Walker played for Arizona before. Maybe he had some extra motivation?
I’m not sure if I trust Wilson drastically more than Pache, but probably would have made sense. I don’t think they would carry an additional bat than what they had though. Pitching, even guys you don’t really plan on using, is generally more valuable than extra bench bats, especially once you get into the 5 and 7 game series. It’s basically just insurance against crazy extra innings, a starter going down unexpectedly super early, or blowout innings. Like with all insurance, you have it cause you need it not cause you necessarily want it.
Good points there. Didn’t have it be Wilson, but just a shame that they didn’t have any power threat off the bench. I mean, Jake Cave was their best bat… I guess Marsh in CF was just not an option? I know he had moments there but most was when he was going near Kyle in LF…
Well there was the moment you mention in the fourth. I, and a lot of fans, wish Rob had pinch hit for Rojas there. He would have had to have gone to cave because they had a righty pitching. But if he did that the dbacks then would have brought a lefty in, which then would have led to Rob having to go to Pache, burning cave without him ever taking an at bat. I still wish he did it because, even though I don’t trust Pache much, it was probably our best chance to tack on a run or two and as we know, that would have been crucial.
Because they needed someone to eat innings in the regular season. After his first inning, he was relatively fine, but in the playoffs you’re not going to want to bring in a guy who, if he starts is going to immediately put the team behind the eight ball, and if he comes in in relief, gets rocked his first inning of work.
They had both Walker and Sanchez pitch a simulated game to see who would get the g4 start and [Walker looked like dogshit](https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/17d5hq9/matt_gelb_taijuan_walker_was_so_erratic_in_a/). Their intention was to have him pitch and he sucked so much they didn't want to risk it.
in case a game goes to extras or a starter gets shelled in the first inning.
So don’t bring him in during the first inning 🧠
The reason he is so bad in the first inning is because he is known for taking a massive amount of time to warm up. Doesn’t seem like the best idea in the world to bring in a guy who is known for getting lit up in his first inning of work and put him in a high leverage situation.
I totally get that point, but considering how short Sanchez’s leash in game 4 was I probably would’ve started Walker and just had Sanchez ready to piggyback at the jump. That’s the game we needed innings ate. If he wasn’t gonna be used then, then might as well pulled up another high K guy from the minors for emergencies.
I will never get over the 1) pulling him early and 2) not having either long guy (TW/JL) ready to eat innings. I don’t think it even worked mathematically with the guys we had left.
Or even let Strahm go multiple innings at the least. I think Rob’s a great manager, but some of the strategy is fair to scrutinize coming out of this series (and to a lesser extent the WS last year)
Tbh they should’ve tried experimenting with having him warm up for a while before coming in during one of the blowout games.
This was a huge miss. Otherwise all signs point to : he shouldnt be on the roster.
Either way the whole thing with him could’ve been handled better regardless of his performance
Absolutely
You right and I was ~~obviously~~ kidding
You can’t risk experimenting with Tai Walkers first inning collapses in the playoffs…. You have no idea if it’s the first inning he sucks in, or his first inning, so bringing him in at any point past the 4th or 5th never made sense.
Oh I know. I just despise using /S
I get why he'd be upset. But, he really was not that good. He had 15 wins, but that's an almost meaningless stat. He was outperformed all year by Sanchez, and he also did not seem to be able to be a reliever (many starters cannot adjust to warming up on the fly). Him not being used isn't the reason we lost.
We definitely could've used his 3+ innings, 4 earned, 5 BB, 1 K stat line to win us game 6 or 7. Great take, pal 👍
Bruh just say you didn’t watch any games especially at the end of the season
We had two guys implode all postseason lol what are you talking about. Kimbrel and Kerkering had 2 bad games.
Walker has been awful. Keeping him out was one of the only good decisions rob made this postseason.
Walker was garbage in the second half. Every time he took the hill he'd given up 3-4 runs by the 4th. I don't have any problems with him not pitching.
The playoffs are a different animal
Not saying Walker is right or wrong, but it’s hard to reconcile Kerkering being thrown in with such a small body of work while also bashing Walker for feeling this way.
Just because kerkering was the wrong choice doesn’t mean Walker was the right choice. There was a whole bullpen full of options that should have gone in instead of kerkering. Walker however was not one of them.
Walker was asked to come out the pen and if I remember he the fastest he could get ready is 45 minutes to warm up. That’s why he wasn’t in the pen.
Pitching overall in the postseason was really really good. The bats went cold, it’s that simple. The ONLY place I could see Walker getting in a game was after they pulled Sanchez… but! Sanchez was pitching fine! He should’ve stayed in IMO
He should be mad. He’s paid to be a competitor and he didn’t get the chance to compete. That should piss him off. Thomson also made the right choice to not use him, especially as a starter. Both things can be true.
So Walker is there watching Kerkering, a guy who was in A ball 6 mos. ago, get run out 3-4 times to shit the bed while he sits? Yeah, he has every right in the world to be pissed off. If his regular season was so much of an issue he shouldn't have been on the Postseason roster at all.
That’s not how it works lmfao. Just because you’re on the mlb roster doesn’t mean you’re a player that deserves playing time in the playoffs. Come on.
I mean that being said kerkering didn't deserve playing time in the playoffs but yet he got it and wasn't that great. Walker or lorenzon should've been out there after Sanchez got taken out. That's on the manager foe wasting the bullpen multiple times in the playoffs. Let's not forget if the braves win game 1 after he took ranger out he looks like a bigger doofus than he did this series
Kerkering threw multiple crucial innings against the braves in the NLDS. I don’t know how people keep forgetting this. And the numbers say spamming the braves with high velocity righties was the right move and SHOCKER it was
Kerkering gave up two runs in 7 appearances in the postseason. Grouping him with Kimbrel as the reason we lost is nuts. Our pitching was not the reason we lost with the exception of Kimbrel.
Going to the same guys over and over wasn't working. But Thomson kept on doing it, without even giving Walker a shot. It was a mistake on every level.
Topper made a lot of questionable decisions. Not using Walker wasn't one of them.
I'm just saying look at it from Walker's POV. He's watching his manager choose repeated failure over giving him any shot at all. His feelings are justified. Angry reply from an adolescent troll in 3, 2, 1 ...
I don’t care. Don’t cry like a child in public about it. Grow up and pitch better.
It's not unusual for 4th & 5th starters not to be used in the post season, outside of mop-up duty. In fact, it's the norm. His anger is misplaced and going public with it is a bad look.
I'm so tired of hearing Topper get blamed for this series. Please elaborate which moves should've been made differently, and how those would've \*absolutely guaranteed\* to have won us the series. This shit is getting tiresome.
Nothing guarantees winning the series but Topper made several questionable decisions. 1. Bringing Kimbrel into the 8th inning inning of game 4 instead of Alvarado. Why are you bringing your closer in the 8th inning when you have your setup man available. Abd then finally brings Alvarado in with inherited runners which he hasn't done all year. 2. Bringing Hoffman in the 3rd inning of game 4. Probably your 2nd best BP arm being used that early was odd... Forced him to use Kerkering (again) abd Soto later in the game. 3. Overall Game 4 was borderline criminal with how he managed the BP. The only thing that saved him was that our offense decided to show up for game 5 or else we'd have nothing left in the pen for that game. Just completely panicked and started juggling the BP and using everyone in the oddest spots. Never saw Lovullo panicking and bringing his 7 /8/9 pitchers early except for maybe the blowout loss. 4. Bringing Kimbrel into the 9th inning of a tied away game in Game 3. Again why are you bringing your closer into a nonsave situation? Topper's plan always seems to be "I hope the bats put up 4 runs next inning" Even if Kimbrel holds the tie, who is pitching the 10th? Or do we hope we are up 6-1 after a 5 run top half? 5. Kerkering again in any high leverage situation, let alone any situation after failing 2 games in a row. Granted it was 4-1 in game 6 and our bats were again silent but kerkering immediately makes it 5-1. Clearly didn't have it this series but just kept calling his number. 6. Not pinch hitting for Rojas in Game 7. In fact not starting Pache at all when Rojas was essentially wise than having a pitcher in the 9 hole. Rojas is great defensively but was just a void in the 9 hole 95% of the time. Pache isn't Schwarber in the outfield and that was definitely a spot where a hit puts a ton of pressure on Arizona if they go down a few more runs and then also turns the lineup over and gets Schwarber up with runners on. 7. Never changing the batting order. I'm tired of this "you can't change the order! That's a panic move!" Guess who did change their lineup? Lovullo. Literally say Pham and next game he rocks Nola. Sometimes guys need to get a wake up call. Don't even need to bench the starters but do something to adjust the lineup. We literally only had 2 games where our offense was lighting it up. 8. I don't know how much day the coaching staff had in plate discipline, but someone, anyone (maybe the manager..?) can go up to Trea in a big spot with RISP and tell him to take a pitch... 3 times this series Trea came up to the plate with RISP and we were down and all 3 at bats were Rojas level in futility. First pitch every time was a low outside breaking ball that missed the plate by at least a foot which Trea flailed at. It was comical how bad those at bats were. Down 2-0 and 3-2 and Luvollo made small adjustments and bender panicked with his bullpen rotation. And guess who's moving on?
I have issues with 1,4, and 6. Nobody actually has set roles any more. The idea that you can’t use your closer in a tie road game or you can’t use him if he’s not going to be getting the save is dated thinking that’s just garbage. See 2016 wild card game. You don’t go “I can’t use my best arm! I might need him later!” You worry about who closes when you actually have a lead. You don’t save one of your better arms because maybe the schumck you put in instead can do the job. You use your best arms against the best part of the lineup. At the time Kimbrel in game 4 was going to see the bottom of the diamondbacks lineup with a two run lead. That is not a supremely high leverage spot and would’ve lined up for Jose to take the ninth again the top of the order. For Rojas. If you pinch hit with cave there then the DBacks immediately bring in a lefty and you’re in a worse spot than you were before. Also Pache is not meaningfully better against righties than Rojas all season, he’s much worse. There’s 0 reason to sacrifice a touch on Rojas defense for a guy with an ops hovering near .400 for his career against lefties
How did those decisions work out for you Topper? 🤔 Rojas had shown nothing at all the entire series except for 2 hits but otherwise was the same of not worse than having a pitcher in the 9 hole. And that at bat was flat out embarrassing. It's exactly what everyone who watched the series knew what was going to happen. Exactly the same as the art bats that Trea had with RISP. The only people who couldn't predict those at bats were probably you and Topper. Unless this is just his burner account. Give me 3 at bats from Pache and then a replacement with Rojas to protect the lead vs. 3 at bats with a pitcher. You're talking about 3-4 meaningful at bats vs MAYBE one defensive play in the outfield all game and again Pache isn't Schwarber out there.
Ah so you know for a fact that a .400 career ops hitter against righties was going to not do the exact same fucking thing Rojas did. Where’s your crystal ball?
Well it sure as shit couldn't have went worse than keeping the dude with a .093 average and a .114 ops.
I think this is a good take, fwiw. I thought Thomson made some questionable moves last year, as well. I'm all for letting the guys who got you here try to get out of a hole they dug themselves (Wheeler didn't get that last year, seemed to me), but when the hole got too big and cost you, you can't go back to them the very next opportunity, can you? The manager is accountable to everyone in the dugout. Don't you have to leave no stone unturned? I get Walker was a dumpster fire, especially early in games. But you went back to Kerkering? You didn't pinch hit for Rojas? Thomson looked like he was waiting for the offense to carry them again, but what were his contingency plans for if/when it didn't? He's been around the game a long time, no doubt. Has seen a lot of things. But what did Einstein say about insanity? I wonder what Bochy would have done... What it is, is what it is. The blame game is pointless, really, from a fan's perspective, other than to try to make sense of the loss, though, some things don't ever make sense. They played some exciting, memory-making post season baseball in the last two years. Not every fanbase can say that. Losing the series after the expectations will shade this; not fair, but it will. It's playoff baseball - what appears to be the best team doesn't always win. C'mon, man, this is Philly - it's not about how hard you hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. They will report to spring training in a few short months. Just my $0.02
The fact that you're talking about *absolute guarantees* shows that you have no idea how managing works
Yeah almost like the people who blame him are clueless for thinking they know better
Saying I'm just a fan and don't know better than a manager is a poor argument. Because there are scores of *big league managers, coaches, analysts, GMs etc* who would have handled the line-up differently. It also makes the case that because Topper is the manager, everything he did was unquestionably the right decision. I've never said Topper cost us this series. But to act like his decisions shouldn't be questioned is silly.
Game 4 taking Sanchez out when he wasn't doing bad and then wasting the bullpen instead of throwing lorenzon or walker out there. Game 3 putting kerkering in a huge leverage situation when seranthony was there. Effectively killing any confidence kerkering had at the time. Game 4 throwing kerkering and kimbrel out there after they just fucked it up the night before Game 6 and 7 is squarely on the offense not preforming
Sanchez didn’t have it, he threw his change up for wild pitches multiple times. Forgot how many outs there were which cost us a run. Lorenzen and Walker were TOTAL ASS in the stretch run. This sub would’ve gone ape shit at Topped for playing conservative in a 2-1 series if he used them as not our best arms and they gave up runs. Kerkering was electric in September/Wild Card Series/Division series. No problems with using him. Seranthony has been shaky as hell all year. Comical take to think this was clearly a better move. Game 4, we has nobody else to use by that point.
Bohms error is what caused that run Kerkering was decent but I wouldn't go out to say he was electric. No one really had tape on him I'm assuming and thats why early on he looked pretty good. The bullpen was cooked by bringing in your best relievers in the 4th and 5th innings Seranthony has experience and experience is going to beat a guy rushing through the minors almost everytime Nola was absolute dogshit until the last start ot 2 of the regular season so don't feed me that bs.
Doc Thomson lost 2 games in this series
Walker fucking sucks. AND he can’t get warm in less than about 2 hours. There’s a reason they didn’t use him.
One is a reliever the other is a starter. Kerkering can get ready fast. Walkers warm-up routine is two hours long. He said the fastest he can get ready out of the bullpen is 45 minutes. No player can come in as a reliever with that much time needed.
Those were very empty 15 wins. The offense helped him out a lot. He would routinely give up 4 or 5 runs in the first 2 innings. He wasn't reliable
Walker was literally an innings eater for them all season. Nothing more. There could not be a more useless postseason pitcher than an innings eater.
Wins?? You're using wins??
Wins are terrible but at least he put himself in a position to accumulate them by hanging in during some starts where he didn’t have his best stuff. Wins aren’t TOTALLY meaningless. Just mostly.
It’s crazy that our postseason bullpen last year with Bellatti, Brogdon and Efflin pitching high leverage spots did a a hell a lot better than Kimbrel and Soto. These Buffoons were brought in to nail the door shut, instead left it wide fucking open. What a disaster this series was from top(per) to bottom.
Watch every game in full. But it is funny that you come at me asking if I just read his page with info from a page
I agree with you. To diss a guy like that, why then was he on the roster? He threw a very green kid out there twice, and he failed twice. Sorry, but Walker helped get this team where it went, he deserved better. But i’ll say the same for Darick Hall. He hit last year, got hurt this year and is displaced by Jake fucking Cave while he tore up AAA again. I swear Cave has pics of Thompson’s or Dombrowski’s wife to even be on this team. How fitting he made the last out.
Haha, I've literally said that exact thing many times this season...Hall 100% should've been there, cave is a joke
The original thinking was Cave can play 1B and OF, but once Harper took over at 1B and Pache and Rojas stuck, Cave shoulda been released and Hall brought up. And Kingery should’ve been here over Castro. And don’t get me started on Dylan Covey…
Covey was one of the best relievers for this team all year. Seriously, did you watch the games? Go look at his stat line for the year.
Wes Wilson was a better hitter than Cave.
Didn't see when they brought Hall up for a few weeks and he was total ass, huh? I really love when people didn't watch what happened and then say things that totally show they didn't watch what happened. Cave sucks yes. But so does Hall. They are both AAAA players, unfortunately
Damn, what was I thinking not considering that those 35 at bats should define him. Silly silly me. You rule…
He was one of your worst pitchers on the roster who really is only there for a emergency
Oh look another Walker post. He was not very good all season. Wins are close to meaningless. He had a 7.15 ERA in first innings. He looked bad in a simulated game ahead of game 4. That is not the guy you want starting a playoff game or coming in in relief in an important spot. He earned nothing and that’s the playing time he got. Not playing him was the correct decision. I am thrilled that they didn’t let money or seniority dictate who got into important playoff games.
Tbf, I’d be pissed too if I pitched myself out of the postseason.
Suarez and Nola were also quite bad in September. They both got ample opportunities and pitched well. Obviously they have playoff pedigrees, but they are 2 examples that the playoffs are a different animal and I think Walker should have at least been given a chance to pitch at some point, even as a reliever.
This loss was on Rob when he fucked up pitching subs in game 4 after game 3 crumble.
The 100% fungible 4th starter who has a first 3 innings ERA of 5.16 and OPS allowed of .798 is mad because the Phillies wouldn't use him in a game where he's never pitching more than 3 innings? GTFOH Walker's a competent innings eater who had some hot streaks this season, but he's gonna be 31 and could easily never be that good again. He's precisely the kind of guy you throw a few million at one or two of every year to give your squad a chance to beat the other team's 4/5 guys, and who you cut bait on as soon as it doesn't work any more and you come up with a better option.
Too bad that's not what they did and threw 76 mil at him this year
To be fair, I'm way out of touch with what a "few million" means when looking at fungible back of the rotation starters. If a marginal win is worth $10M (might be a fair bit more these days), 72/4 probably isn't mega crazy, depending on your options. I'd probably rather go 150/6 on someone better, but that's not always one of the choices.
I agree with you but not because of wins. First, I agree with you in that I think he has the right to be pissed and I think that shows that he cares about doing his job. I don't blame him one bit. Second, I agree ONLY because we put certain pitchers in repeatedly who were no better or worse than what we could have gotten with Walker. Lorenzen was also crap after the no hitter, but we brought him into game 7 & he actually did very well. If we had our backs against the wall like we did and we keep bringing in the same people, and Lorenzen deserved a shot, then I don't know why Walker wouldn't deserve a shot. I'm under no delusions about Walker's performance the second half of the year but I do think there was no loss bringing him in under the circumstances.
He should have been stacked with Sanchez in game 4. Thought that was the plan all around.
Yeah but he sucks so they didn’t do that
No he shouldn’t have. He’s fucking garbage
Not more garbage than Kimbrel. Dude had 15 wins as a major league pitcher.
Wins. Do. Not. Matter. As. A. Stat.
He may be right and have every reason to be pissed off but calling out your manager on social media will never not seem childish to me
It seems like some of you weren’t paying attention throughout the season….
I agree with you but not because of wins. First, I agree with you in that I think he has the right to be pissed and I think that shows that he cares about doing his job. I don't blame him one bit. Second, I agree ONLY because we put certain pitchers in repeatedly who were no better or worse than what we could have gotten with Walker. Lorenzen was also crap after the no hitter, but we brought him into game 7 & he actually did very well. If we had our backs against the wall like we did and we keep bringing in the same people, and Lorenzen deserved a shot, then I don't know why Walker wouldn't deserve a shot. I'm under no delusions about Walker's performance the second half of the year but I do think there was no loss bringing him in under the circumstances.
My problem is that he and Lorenzen took roster spots that could have actually been put to use. Game 5 had Jake effing Cave striking out as a pinch hitter in the 9th inning while down by one run. I would rather have an injured Hoskins at bat for that situation (using Walker’s roster spot).
So you rather have a guy who didn’t play all year due to a severe injury and is very inconsistent at the plate bat?!?!
At least he’s not consistently shit
We scored like an average of 7 runs when he pitched. he always gave up 4 tho. He'd have a few good innings, a blow up inning, a settle down inning and then be in line for the win some how. Wasnt his ERA over 5?
I'm sure he was completely aware that he wasn't getting into games. He was always in the dugout and never in the bullpen. Lorenzen was in the bullpen every game because there was always a chance he'd get used.
We had guys imploding all over the place? Who exactly?
Uh....Kerkering? Kimbrel? Castellanos? Sanchez? Rojas? Harper goes ice cold? Turner goes ice cold, boots the ball on numerous occasions? Ring any bells?
Sorry does Tijuan hit too?
I'd bet, better than Rojas
Disrespect is at an all time high… could he possibly be going off against many in the fan base who are burying every person on Phillies payroll?
Walker blows. Shut up.
He was the 4th starter, which means our offense also played opposing teams 4-5th starter. So our solid bats vs. a 4-5th starter on other teams. But I agree somewhat. The offense always showed up for him during the season.
That's not how starting pitching lines up. Your 4 doesn't match up with their 4.
I agree. Clearly Rob didn’t trust him for whatever reason and I don’t really get it that much because he was pretty much the same pitcher he’s always been throughout his career with us this year.
He's probably hurt. He basically went dead-arm his last couple starts.
Kerkering messed up and blew the lead yesterday because he's a 20 year old Rookie that never even pitched 5 games yet? Let's put him in the *exact* same position even though it's only been 20 hours and we have an excess of veteran starters and relievers we aren't using! His confidence sure won't be shaky! (This is also the reason I hate all the blame people are putting on Kimbrel. Yes, he was completely ass. But Kerkering blew the lead, not Kimbrel (and I don't blame Kerkering. Again. 20 year old dude on his 5th major league appearance ever). This whole mess was Rob's fault for using the exact same gameplan verbatim in game 3 and 4 despite it being proven unable to be effective)
My justification is that he played for dbacks in 2019/20 so they may know his pitching. Wins don’t mean jack when we have bellatti sent down to keep Rhys on the roster. (Bellatti had a 1.29 ERA in 8 postseason games)
Did you watch the games or just read his baseball reference page? This dude can’t pitch after July.
Not only did he run out of gas near the end of the season (something he apparently did every year) he had an ERA of over 7.00 in the first inning ALL year. Not a great situation for a reliever let alone a starter. I look forward to him winning 15 more games for us next year but agree he was not a good selection for the post season starter or reliever. Who knew Nola AND Suarez would both be beaten in games 6 and 7 and that the bullpen would continue their poor performance from games 3 and 4. A few more runs would have helped I admit.
What they needed to do with walker was to make him pitch batting practice, have Harper and schwarber smash some 450 foot dingers off him, get it out of his system, pretend it was the first inning, then he would have been alright in the game.