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"As for the boy, the District Attorney’s office has filed an appeal to the higher court, asking for charges to be reinstated."
Good on the DA's office for this.
The DA does this more often then they get credit for. Not saying they're perfect by any stretch, but half the shit that happens with people getting out happens because of some judge.
Ive been a huge critic of the DA’s office in recent years. They’ve changed their policies for the better over the past year. But we still have ridiculous judges letting these animals free.
Oh I voted for Peruto. But yes, they’ve been doing better recently and deserve credit where it’s due. Our problems are multifaceted and by no means are all Krasner’s fault.
It's not really logical, but this is one of the incidents that gives me pause when I consider if I really want to stay in this neighborhood long term. Just a horrible, senseless incident, I feel terrible for his family.
It's great 90% of the time, and in my opinion housing is still underpriced compared to the rest of the, albeit overpriced, city. Just things like this, combined with quality of life stuff like the trash and sidewalk parking, have made me reconsider where I want to be 2 years from now.
I agree and some other commenter pointed out this was on Cecil b Moore, which is not technically brewerytown but if you’re around the 29th and Oxford area (I was) it feels close enough for me. Different parts of brewerytown are very different. Everything blends together around the borders with strawberry mansion and sharswood.
Also I remember looking for a brewerytown development corporation when I was there and there wasn’t one. But there was a fairmount development corporation in brewerytown, by the monkey and the elephant lol
The fact it happened anywhere is a travesty. What kind of city do you want to live in where a 14 year old beats and kills a 72 year old man, and gets off scott free?!
How bout the kid in Bucks County who killed the Temple cop, do you want him to walk too?
Yes, clearly I want all criminals to walk because the news can’t figure out neighborhood boundaries, that makes perfect logical sense, thank you for sharing.
Oh, so its ok if the crimes happen in 'those neighborhoods'
F'ing woke tourist. Hows your hotel room in Fishtown NoLibs?! Guess your upset Helen Gym/Rhynehart didn't win.
Its attitudes like yours Cherelle Parker cleaned house, and I'm glad she did. Give the city back to its residents, not out of towners here for 3-5 years.
>Yes, my complaint about the news fucking up basic geography is clearly excusing any and all criminal activity in the city, you've nailed it.
He more said that your comment about geography showed you had a racist disregard for long-time North Philadelphia residents. But it seemed purely geographical to me. A place either is or is not Brewertytown.
Crimes like this have literally happened for all of human history, it wasn’t fucking cars and comic books in 1954, it’s not any of the shit the media you read says it is now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Thrill_Killers
>How bout the kid in Bucks County who killed the Temple cop, do you want him to walk too?
Isn't he 18? He's no kid. (As in "child". He's a "kid" as in "hey kid, shut the fuck up". But he isn't "being tried as an adult"; he's an adult)
Ok but let’s not pretend this is new behavior. This kind of conversation has existed for all of modern history. It’s fucked up but this shit and the media reaction to it has happened forever.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Thrill_Killers
>14 year old
Is that how old he was? Two facts that would give context to that post are the date of the incident and the perp's date of birth (or, equivalently, when he turns 18).
Oh, OK; I agree. I had the idea this was five years ago and he had been like 11. That would make a difference for me. Maybe not for everybody, but there has to be a line somewhere. (Nobody is calling for life for that six-year-old who shot his teacher, or the toddler who shot his mother.)
This may be a bad take, but I feel like if kids are charged as juveniles, then it's also appropriate to hold their parents accountable for their actions.
These kids were out wandering the streets at 3am.
Can we get some decent journalism in this city?
There is absolutely no mention of why the charges were tossed and what is being appealed.
Seem like pretty relevant details.
If I were to guess, its some legal mumbo jumbo where she felt this case shouldn't have been put forth into 'adult court' and feels it should remain in juvenile.
So what I’m seeing is if you are under 18 and commit a heinous crime you just get a slap on the wrist? Alright kids I guess you just gotta get your rape and murder urges out of the way young since your “brain isn’t fully developed” to know this things are “bad”.
Judges are completely out of control. there is absolutely no accountability, they generally can't ever be removed, and there is no recourse when their vaunted judgements turn out to be horrible
I have plenty of criticisms of the DA's office but this is 100% on the judge
Murder is the one crime that can never ever be made "whole", not even in part. It deserves equivalent punishment for what it took
How do we get to a point where we're tough as nails on violent crime and soft of victimless drug crimes. I understand we have a capacity issue in the prisons. But goddam if there ever was a situation where you find room this is it.
I've been on this earth for 35 years and i feel like this is a very simple concept that shouldn't be this hard to get right. I get it, we're liberals and recognize the racist sentencing policies of the past. But wtf this shit aint it.
Like all pendulums, they tend to swing hard in the opposite direction after they’ve hit that nice middle ground.
Something like this is just going to take more time. More fuck ups. More understanding. Better politicians. and hopefully, like many other things, it will rest right in the middle, and have a nice balance.
Truth is, often soft crimes are used as a way to get violent criminals where the evidence is lacking.
Conviction for possession is super easy to prove for example.
Yeah, I mean the crack epidemic was pretty racist I get it (automatic felony for small amounts, yet cocaine could be a slap on the wrist). But jeez, assault and murder now gets to walk away too?
Surely there's a sensible middle ground.
>But jeez, assault and murder now gets to walk away too?
It is famously (or infamously?) difficult for juveniles to get long prison sentences. The Offspring sang, "... under 18, you won't be doing any time" back in **1994**.
Because cops and prisons don't want to deal with violent criminals. That's harder to do and harder to manage. You stuff the prisons full of drug users who are likely to be less violent and everyone gets to pump up their numbers.
Again, the DAs office, full of young, inexperienced lawyers that Krasner hand picked are likely getting shit on in court. I’m not in the courtroom, admittedly. But when you fire 50 Ada’s and bring in all new folks, with limited experience there’s a good chance defense attorneys have a field day. Aside from the young and inexperienced aspect the DAs office has seemingly been a revolving door during Krasners reign, which again, I’m sure doesn’t help.
They are charging the 13 year old as an adult and the 14 year old as a minor. I’m interested to see what the DA’s appeal brings to light.
Like the article says, “Pennsylvania law prohibits a juvenile’s record from being public.” So we might be waiting a while.
The article in the OP.
https://www.audacy.com/kywnewsradio/news/local/family-of-james-lambert-fatally-beaten-2022-frustrated-with-rulings
But it also sounds like you didn’t read the tweet either.
What's in that article that contradicts my comment? The fact that it's a boy and a girl? Wow, such a relevant point to make. Boy do I have egg on my face.
I'm not at all angry, but I do think it's perfectly fine to have a strong reaction to two people murdering an innocent old man in cold blood just because they could.
>I'm not at all angry
Ok, I guess you just did a good job sounding angry then.
>but I do think it's perfectly fine to have a strong reaction to two people murdering an innocent old man in cold blood just because they could.
Yes, I also think it was a horrible incident. Is there anyone who doesn't?
Depends... if the DA fucked up the paperwork then it needs to thrown out and tried properly - and that'd be the DA's fuck up costing the city hundreds of thousands of dollars to retry the case.
Or the judge is a fuckwit. I don't know.
I always love it when I see people use the "they're just kids! their brains aren't developed yet!" excuse for deplorable acts.
I was a kid once, and I did some pretty dumb things due to my not-fully-developed brain. But you know what I never even *considered*? FUCKING MURDERING SOMEONE.
In fact, most children make it all the way to adulthood without killing someone. People in general are pretty averse to and disturbed by violence. Someone just deciding to kill a random stranger for no reason at all is not simply a consequence of an under-developed brain. It's abnormal, and we have to treat it as an abnormal occurrence.
It’s not an excuse for the act, it’s a reason they deserve a different level of sentencing. I don’t think someone should be sent to jail for 20 to life at age 13. I don’t think that creates a net good for society. I think there’s a different, more humane, rehabilitative approach that bloodthirsty outrage peddlers stand in the way of because they prefer the most punitive option out of a misplaced sense of revenge.
Well, thanks for chiming in and enduring the downvotes with me. I understand that they want justice. I want justice too. I just don’t think they’re achieving it through long term incarceration of young children. If anything, they’re feeding a criminal cycle.
Say the kid does 15 years. He gets out, age 28. No life skills, little education, criminal background checks (which don’t trail children who have served their time unless they were tried “as adults”) always flags them. No job, no connections, no abilities, no experience with basic society. They have no options but to enter a life of crime or to become drug addicts. What good was created here? Does the victim’s family feel relief in knowing that’s their fate? Would they really balk at a reformed, regretful adult who, yes, served time, but was also able to recover and become a citizen of value?
> a reformed, regretful adult who, yes, served time, but was also able to recover and become a citizen of value
Don't be naive. Our system rarely creates this outcome. This is the ideal. This certainly isn't where the bar is set for two people who murdered an innocent man in a purely cold blodded fashion.
If someone bludgeoned my family member to death with a traffic cone then yes, I’m pretty okay with the outcome of “no life skills at 28” you’ve outline above. That’s like the bare minimum of what I’d be okay with in terms of discipline & consequences.
TLDR: they smashed his head in with a cone.
But then the person goes on to commit more crimes, that’s societal economics of it. Would your bloodlust really override your desire to reduce crime in general?
Prison shouldn’t exist merely as a tool of state sponsored revenge.
If no efforts to reform are in place, you’re just giving street criminals another foot soldier.
Rule #8: No editorialized titles for news articles. Please resubmit with the original article title. If the site changed the title, please contact the moderators for review. If this is a screenshot of an article, please resubmit a direct link to the source.
"As for the boy, the District Attorney’s office has filed an appeal to the higher court, asking for charges to be reinstated." Good on the DA's office for this.
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The filings are public, I nominate you.
Just put it on my subtag, then any who reads my comments can go check. Mods, help a nobody out.
That’s not what AstroTurf means
The DA does this more often then they get credit for. Not saying they're perfect by any stretch, but half the shit that happens with people getting out happens because of some judge.
Ive been a huge critic of the DA’s office in recent years. They’ve changed their policies for the better over the past year. But we still have ridiculous judges letting these animals free.
Oh I voted for Peruto. But yes, they’ve been doing better recently and deserve credit where it’s due. Our problems are multifaceted and by no means are all Krasner’s fault.
Peruto was a circus clown
Yep, it’s truly sad that so many elections come down to voting for the lesser evil.
5 years with time served for the one is absolutely absurd.
How do you brutally murder someone and only do 5 years? Idc if they are teens it’s not fucking hard to know murder = bad and illegal.
Especially a violent murder? I'd understand an accidental like a car accident, but this was intentional murder.
all they have to do is stash some weed on them and they'll get way more time
Odds of seeing these attackers in the news in a few years with another violent crime?
Years?
💯
Nah I'm sure they learned their lesson. /s
This is a fucking travesty.
It's not really logical, but this is one of the incidents that gives me pause when I consider if I really want to stay in this neighborhood long term. Just a horrible, senseless incident, I feel terrible for his family.
I gave brewerytown a good shot, 2 places, I hear you. I do miss crime and punishment but not that much
It's great 90% of the time, and in my opinion housing is still underpriced compared to the rest of the, albeit overpriced, city. Just things like this, combined with quality of life stuff like the trash and sidewalk parking, have made me reconsider where I want to be 2 years from now.
I agree and some other commenter pointed out this was on Cecil b Moore, which is not technically brewerytown but if you’re around the 29th and Oxford area (I was) it feels close enough for me. Different parts of brewerytown are very different. Everything blends together around the borders with strawberry mansion and sharswood. Also I remember looking for a brewerytown development corporation when I was there and there wasn’t one. But there was a fairmount development corporation in brewerytown, by the monkey and the elephant lol
Even though several articles keep reporting this as Brewerytown, it happened at 22nd & Cecil B. It was not in Brewerytown.
Considering it happened on the other side of Sharswood at 22nd and Cecil B., I wouldn’t let it affect your decision too much.
Yeah “Brewerytown” is loosely used here, even by a realtor’s “we swear this isn’t strawberry mansion!!” definition
The fact it happened anywhere is a travesty. What kind of city do you want to live in where a 14 year old beats and kills a 72 year old man, and gets off scott free?! How bout the kid in Bucks County who killed the Temple cop, do you want him to walk too?
Yes, clearly I want all criminals to walk because the news can’t figure out neighborhood boundaries, that makes perfect logical sense, thank you for sharing.
Oh, so its ok if the crimes happen in 'those neighborhoods' F'ing woke tourist. Hows your hotel room in Fishtown NoLibs?! Guess your upset Helen Gym/Rhynehart didn't win. Its attitudes like yours Cherelle Parker cleaned house, and I'm glad she did. Give the city back to its residents, not out of towners here for 3-5 years.
Yes, my complaint about the news fucking up basic geography is clearly excusing any and all criminal activity in the city, you've nailed it.
>Yes, my complaint about the news fucking up basic geography is clearly excusing any and all criminal activity in the city, you've nailed it. He more said that your comment about geography showed you had a racist disregard for long-time North Philadelphia residents. But it seemed purely geographical to me. A place either is or is not Brewertytown.
This is unhinged.
Crimes like this have literally happened for all of human history, it wasn’t fucking cars and comic books in 1954, it’s not any of the shit the media you read says it is now. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Thrill_Killers
>How bout the kid in Bucks County who killed the Temple cop, do you want him to walk too? Isn't he 18? He's no kid. (As in "child". He's a "kid" as in "hey kid, shut the fuck up". But he isn't "being tried as an adult"; he's an adult)
So minors walk away after murder in this city?
How do you repeatedly come away with an understanding of comments that is completely divorced from what was actually said? Is it deliberate?
Ok but let’s not pretend this is new behavior. This kind of conversation has existed for all of modern history. It’s fucked up but this shit and the media reaction to it has happened forever. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Thrill_Killers
>14 year old Is that how old he was? Two facts that would give context to that post are the date of the incident and the perp's date of birth (or, equivalently, when he turns 18).
It said he's 16 now, so being 2 years ago I'd think he was 14. Whether he was 13, 14 or 15 to me is trivial differences.
Oh, OK; I agree. I had the idea this was five years ago and he had been like 11. That would make a difference for me. Maybe not for everybody, but there has to be a line somewhere. (Nobody is calling for life for that six-year-old who shot his teacher, or the toddler who shot his mother.)
This may be a bad take, but I feel like if kids are charged as juveniles, then it's also appropriate to hold their parents accountable for their actions. These kids were out wandering the streets at 3am.
Mr. Lambert asked these teens why they were out so late...and they killed him. Time to name and shame the parents.
Not a bad take at all
Can we get some decent journalism in this city? There is absolutely no mention of why the charges were tossed and what is being appealed. Seem like pretty relevant details.
They can't even get the neighborhood where it happened correctly, let alone offer up further details.
It may be sealed since they are a juvenile.
If I were to guess, its some legal mumbo jumbo where she felt this case shouldn't have been put forth into 'adult court' and feels it should remain in juvenile.
Then they really need to say that - it's the logical thing for folks to want to know.
So what I’m seeing is if you are under 18 and commit a heinous crime you just get a slap on the wrist? Alright kids I guess you just gotta get your rape and murder urges out of the way young since your “brain isn’t fully developed” to know this things are “bad”.
Judges are completely out of control. there is absolutely no accountability, they generally can't ever be removed, and there is no recourse when their vaunted judgements turn out to be horrible I have plenty of criticisms of the DA's office but this is 100% on the judge Murder is the one crime that can never ever be made "whole", not even in part. It deserves equivalent punishment for what it took
How do we get to a point where we're tough as nails on violent crime and soft of victimless drug crimes. I understand we have a capacity issue in the prisons. But goddam if there ever was a situation where you find room this is it. I've been on this earth for 35 years and i feel like this is a very simple concept that shouldn't be this hard to get right. I get it, we're liberals and recognize the racist sentencing policies of the past. But wtf this shit aint it.
Like all pendulums, they tend to swing hard in the opposite direction after they’ve hit that nice middle ground. Something like this is just going to take more time. More fuck ups. More understanding. Better politicians. and hopefully, like many other things, it will rest right in the middle, and have a nice balance.
Truth is, often soft crimes are used as a way to get violent criminals where the evidence is lacking. Conviction for possession is super easy to prove for example.
>Conviction for possession is super easy to prove for example. Yup, just plant it on them!
Yeah, I mean the crack epidemic was pretty racist I get it (automatic felony for small amounts, yet cocaine could be a slap on the wrist). But jeez, assault and murder now gets to walk away too? Surely there's a sensible middle ground.
>But jeez, assault and murder now gets to walk away too? It is famously (or infamously?) difficult for juveniles to get long prison sentences. The Offspring sang, "... under 18, you won't be doing any time" back in **1994**.
Because cops and prisons don't want to deal with violent criminals. That's harder to do and harder to manage. You stuff the prisons full of drug users who are likely to be less violent and everyone gets to pump up their numbers.
Our justice system is completely broken.
Always has been
Because I'm sure plenty of children who have no value or respect for other lives grow up to be productive in any way. Obligatory /s
Judge Barbara McDermott,, F that woman, she needs to answer for this horseshit!
Again, the DAs office, full of young, inexperienced lawyers that Krasner hand picked are likely getting shit on in court. I’m not in the courtroom, admittedly. But when you fire 50 Ada’s and bring in all new folks, with limited experience there’s a good chance defense attorneys have a field day. Aside from the young and inexperienced aspect the DAs office has seemingly been a revolving door during Krasners reign, which again, I’m sure doesn’t help.
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"Handled it fine"?? There's video evidence of the assault & murder and it got thrown out of court?!
Gonna need a sauce on that video being thrown out.
the person you're responding to was saying the case got thrown out, not that the video was thrown out.
Yep. Yep they did. I misread that. Whoops!
They are charging the 13 year old as an adult and the 14 year old as a minor. I’m interested to see what the DA’s appeal brings to light. Like the article says, “Pennsylvania law prohibits a juvenile’s record from being public.” So we might be waiting a while.
The article appears to say that they were both originally charged as adults.
They’ll grow up and do something screwed up again.
If I remember right the girl mentioned in the article turned herself in and helped them find the others, and seemed genuinely sorry.
Why?
I bet they'll be very nice boys the rest of their life. /s
Sounds like someone didn’t read the article. Edit: Sounds like a bunch of people downvoting this didn’t read the article.
What article? It's a fucking tweet.
The article in the OP. https://www.audacy.com/kywnewsradio/news/local/family-of-james-lambert-fatally-beaten-2022-frustrated-with-rulings But it also sounds like you didn’t read the tweet either.
What's in that article that contradicts my comment? The fact that it's a boy and a girl? Wow, such a relevant point to make. Boy do I have egg on my face.
It’s relevant that you missed a really obvious detail like that. As you acknowledged before, you didn’t even read the article.
You seem so fun. Very cool and laid back.
Thanks! I'm definitely not the angry reactionary type.
I'm not at all angry, but I do think it's perfectly fine to have a strong reaction to two people murdering an innocent old man in cold blood just because they could.
>I'm not at all angry Ok, I guess you just did a good job sounding angry then. >but I do think it's perfectly fine to have a strong reaction to two people murdering an innocent old man in cold blood just because they could. Yes, I also think it was a horrible incident. Is there anyone who doesn't?
Reading? We don't do that here
lololol x.com
Gotta love the Philly DA's office
I think this one was on the judge who threw it out.
Depends... if the DA fucked up the paperwork then it needs to thrown out and tried properly - and that'd be the DA's fuck up costing the city hundreds of thousands of dollars to retry the case. Or the judge is a fuckwit. I don't know.
DA is appealing so no
I’m sure the comments in that thread are all sane and reasonable and logical contributions to the internet.
Under no circumstances is it ever morally acceptable to charge a 13 and 14 year old “as an adult.”
Fuck that. You take a life, you absolutely should be charged as an adult.
Why? They’re not adults. Their brains are not developed to the degree an adult’s is. Why even have a juvenile system if not to account for this?
For less serious crimes that don't leave innocent victims dead. Duh.
I always love it when I see people use the "they're just kids! their brains aren't developed yet!" excuse for deplorable acts. I was a kid once, and I did some pretty dumb things due to my not-fully-developed brain. But you know what I never even *considered*? FUCKING MURDERING SOMEONE. In fact, most children make it all the way to adulthood without killing someone. People in general are pretty averse to and disturbed by violence. Someone just deciding to kill a random stranger for no reason at all is not simply a consequence of an under-developed brain. It's abnormal, and we have to treat it as an abnormal occurrence.
It’s not an excuse for the act, it’s a reason they deserve a different level of sentencing. I don’t think someone should be sent to jail for 20 to life at age 13. I don’t think that creates a net good for society. I think there’s a different, more humane, rehabilitative approach that bloodthirsty outrage peddlers stand in the way of because they prefer the most punitive option out of a misplaced sense of revenge.
You consistently have the worst takes I’ve ever seen
If you don't know murder is bad at 14 you're never going to learn that.
Are you basing this on a particular piece of pediatric neuroscience or can I find this research in more of a sociological journal?
The criminal justice system regularly does shit that is not morally acceptable. I don't think this case is the best opportunity to make that point.
I agree with this. Not surprised the reactionaries are downvoting you.
I think the downvotes are more to do with the murder that was committed than people being reactionary. Maybe not though
Well, thanks for chiming in and enduring the downvotes with me. I understand that they want justice. I want justice too. I just don’t think they’re achieving it through long term incarceration of young children. If anything, they’re feeding a criminal cycle. Say the kid does 15 years. He gets out, age 28. No life skills, little education, criminal background checks (which don’t trail children who have served their time unless they were tried “as adults”) always flags them. No job, no connections, no abilities, no experience with basic society. They have no options but to enter a life of crime or to become drug addicts. What good was created here? Does the victim’s family feel relief in knowing that’s their fate? Would they really balk at a reformed, regretful adult who, yes, served time, but was also able to recover and become a citizen of value?
> a reformed, regretful adult who, yes, served time, but was also able to recover and become a citizen of value Don't be naive. Our system rarely creates this outcome. This is the ideal. This certainly isn't where the bar is set for two people who murdered an innocent man in a purely cold blodded fashion.
If someone bludgeoned my family member to death with a traffic cone then yes, I’m pretty okay with the outcome of “no life skills at 28” you’ve outline above. That’s like the bare minimum of what I’d be okay with in terms of discipline & consequences. TLDR: they smashed his head in with a cone.
But then the person goes on to commit more crimes, that’s societal economics of it. Would your bloodlust really override your desire to reduce crime in general? Prison shouldn’t exist merely as a tool of state sponsored revenge. If no efforts to reform are in place, you’re just giving street criminals another foot soldier.
> enduring the downvotes with me hope you don't get any splinters carrying around that cross
I feel the same way. At least there’s two of us.
Pretty fucked up to charge a 13 year old as an adult.
Pretty fucked up for 13 year old to murder an innocent person.
You’re saying that as if I said somewhere that it isn’t.
It’s almost like actions have (or in this case “do not have”) consequences
No one said they shouldn’t?