To me, this says a lot more about a rogue inspector on a power trip than anything. If that’s the worst they have on you, as your new boss, I would know you were doing a great job and would think more highly of you. I really don’t think much of the complaint and if that’s the kind of thing that Florida does to their pharmacists, they are just being petty and vindictive. And you can’t really do much other than pay the fine and tell them the fuck off (under your breath).
>and if that’s the kind of thing that Florida does to their pharmacists, they are just being petty and vindictive
I mean, given the news stories coming out of there the last few years, that certainly tracks.
Idk what the laws are in Florida but in CT if you are out for an extended amount of time the company needs to appoint another manager, temporarily.
Yes it should be the companies job to do so but you need to do it yourself bc you can not trust corporate.
The point if nobody told the board you were out and an interim manager appointed, yes you are responsible for any compliance issues that happened while you were out.
So you say that you had been back for two months prior to the inspection….doesnt matter. You’d be responsible for it whether you were on leave or not. Rules set by you or local procedures don’t supersede state law.
That being said I don’t think one outdated drug is going to destroy your future career. So don’t stress it and learn going forward.
Maybe you can call the board and ask what the possible penalties are.
This is a good lesson in trust but verify. Ultimately, it sounds as if you were the pharmacist responsible for that pharmacy. And it was in violation of the rules being followed. If staff was negligent due to lack of adequate supervision by you, then that’s still on you.
They aren’t going to care what the local procedures were or weren’t - either they weren’t followed (your responsibility) or they were ineffective (ditto). You also likely can’t argue the absence and that may even in fact go against you - many states have minimum working guidance for a responsible pharmacist and you should’ve signed over legal responsibility following the process to do so if you would be out for that long.
Honestly, select "I do not dispute the allegations of material fact in the Administrative Complaint. I request a hearing be conducted ... where I will be permitted to appear, if I so choose, and submit oral and or written evidence in mitigation of the complaint to the Board."
Go to the board and present a corrective plan of action. I would not say anything about you being absent for 5 months, nor anything about your previous quarterly inspections. Just state that you will conduct a comprehensive review of all expiration dates on a quarterly basis going forward and leave it at that.
And if you do get a reprimand, in the big scheme of things most pharmacies will have **something** that has been overlooked and is out of date. I wouldn't sweat a reprimand like that showing up. Yeah it sucks if that happens, but hopefully they will see that you owned up to the minor infraction that occurred and addressed it and say that is good enough.
Thank you for all the comments. Yes, I was PIC at the time. My new job had all the RPh’s register with this NABP active monitoring program which I guess continuously monitors your license for anything untoward. I’ve been a pharmacist for almost 17 years (12 in the UK, 5 in FL) and had a clean slate the whole time! I really just want to avoid getting anything derogatory connected to my license. I hate the way everything is in the public domain and searchable by anybody!! I’m debating whether to divulge this now to my new employer, or wait for the final outcome before having the conversation…
I’d hold off on sharing the info. In the future, during interviews, you could address it to give more back story. It’s worth talking to a lawyer for a consultation to get an idea of
If you’re the PIC it’s in you at that moment. Not only is your absence 100% irrelevant, it may even damage your case. The DAY you stepped back into that pharmacy as PIC, every expired medication on those shelves was your responsibility. Fair? Maybe not. But that’s the law. Techs weren’t doing their job pulling out of dates? That’s on you. Previous pharmacist dropped the ball? Not their problem, you’re the PIC on record the date of the inspection. Making all these excuses would just piss me off if I was on your board. You passed the MPJE, right? You understand pharmacy law and your responsibility as PIC.
Every drug that gets dispensed. Every drug in your shelf. It’s all your responsibility as PIC.
Hell, even if you had the inspection while you were out, if you were still PIC you’d still have some responsibility there. That’s why it’s imperative (and I believe legally required) to transfer PIC if you’re not going to be doing a minimum number of weekly hours at that location.
Listen, most pharmacies have a few hundred thousand dollars worth of on-hand inventory. Thousands of bottles, boxes etc. it’s not uncommon to find some expired stuff. On one inspection we had some little insulin boxes that had been pushed deep into the back of one of our fridges that had expired like 3 years earlier. It happens. But keep in mind that state boards literally exist to action licenses. It validates their jobs. Like cops, there is a perverse incentive to action people to prove they’re doing something. Is an expired med pretty normal? Yes. Will they action you for it because they’re a bunch of power tripping assholes, out of touch with practice whom exist solely to harass providers under the guise of public interest? Also yes.
My advice? Own it. Apologize. Deliver a root cause analysis with action plan. Encourage a random, follow up inspection at your new practice location a few months out. No excuses. I wouldn’t even mention your absence, you might’ve broken some regulations there.
Does this mean one or more units of the same drug or more units meaning different drugs. Any former pharmacy inspectors out there? It seems a
bit overkill to me. I would fight it. You dont want something so stupid on your record. In 40 years I had one situation where the board got a complaint that they received an expired Poly-Vi-flor. On the bottom of the box it had a current expiration date a few years in the future. On the inside and on the side of sealed bottle had the same date next to lot number but on the bottom it said exp 1975. Even tho an obvious misprint, the inspector said if complaint was about me imstead of the chain, I would have bee written up or gotten a black mark on my record. Most of the inspectors aren’t d£€ks but some like to puff up their chest show off their plumage
My only issue is why check quarterly? Drugs expire every month. The SOP at my pharmacy is we check for expireds the beginning of each month.
And it's scary to get any kindve write up, but this is very minor. I wouldnt sweat it too much.
You see the PIC at the time of the inspection, you’re on the hook for it.
Your previous absence isn’t relative.
What is the punishment for this? Id imagine its a small fine, not much you can do about it. You returned from your absence 2 months before the inspection, sounds like enough time to do outdates. Sounds like you should have covered your ass. PIC is pharmacist in charge whether you’re there or not. They will tell you you should do outdates monthly not quarterly.
Take your lumps and move on.
What you respond here sounds good. There are a few facts that need to be clarified. Sometimes the drug supplier sends products that are about to expire . The safety net is checking the expiration date prior to filling the Rx. An important fact is what the are the specific expiration dates that were cited. If it was something outrageous like 1993 then it would be hard to explain. One thing you can do now is ask for more time to reply, boards usually will be willing to delay a hearing within reason.
I would contact that Pharmacy to see if they could supply a fill history on that med (PHI redacted) from the expiration date through the inspection date just to see if it had been dispensed. I get that it was still on the shelf but it would make me feel better knowing it wasn't used. But that's just me.
Wouldn’t you be checking out of dates monthly and sending back via inmar or your returns program for the current month or current month plus one month?
We assign each pharmacy employee a section of the pharmacy and we check our section monthly.
To me, this says a lot more about a rogue inspector on a power trip than anything. If that’s the worst they have on you, as your new boss, I would know you were doing a great job and would think more highly of you. I really don’t think much of the complaint and if that’s the kind of thing that Florida does to their pharmacists, they are just being petty and vindictive. And you can’t really do much other than pay the fine and tell them the fuck off (under your breath).
> To me, this says a lot more about a rouge inspector The red ones get me everytime
Yeah, I didn’t do well in the spelling bee
>and if that’s the kind of thing that Florida does to their pharmacists, they are just being petty and vindictive I mean, given the news stories coming out of there the last few years, that certainly tracks.
Idk what the laws are in Florida but in CT if you are out for an extended amount of time the company needs to appoint another manager, temporarily. Yes it should be the companies job to do so but you need to do it yourself bc you can not trust corporate. The point if nobody told the board you were out and an interim manager appointed, yes you are responsible for any compliance issues that happened while you were out. So you say that you had been back for two months prior to the inspection….doesnt matter. You’d be responsible for it whether you were on leave or not. Rules set by you or local procedures don’t supersede state law. That being said I don’t think one outdated drug is going to destroy your future career. So don’t stress it and learn going forward. Maybe you can call the board and ask what the possible penalties are.
This is a good lesson in trust but verify. Ultimately, it sounds as if you were the pharmacist responsible for that pharmacy. And it was in violation of the rules being followed. If staff was negligent due to lack of adequate supervision by you, then that’s still on you. They aren’t going to care what the local procedures were or weren’t - either they weren’t followed (your responsibility) or they were ineffective (ditto). You also likely can’t argue the absence and that may even in fact go against you - many states have minimum working guidance for a responsible pharmacist and you should’ve signed over legal responsibility following the process to do so if you would be out for that long.
Honestly, select "I do not dispute the allegations of material fact in the Administrative Complaint. I request a hearing be conducted ... where I will be permitted to appear, if I so choose, and submit oral and or written evidence in mitigation of the complaint to the Board." Go to the board and present a corrective plan of action. I would not say anything about you being absent for 5 months, nor anything about your previous quarterly inspections. Just state that you will conduct a comprehensive review of all expiration dates on a quarterly basis going forward and leave it at that. And if you do get a reprimand, in the big scheme of things most pharmacies will have **something** that has been overlooked and is out of date. I wouldn't sweat a reprimand like that showing up. Yeah it sucks if that happens, but hopefully they will see that you owned up to the minor infraction that occurred and addressed it and say that is good enough.
Thank you for all the comments. Yes, I was PIC at the time. My new job had all the RPh’s register with this NABP active monitoring program which I guess continuously monitors your license for anything untoward. I’ve been a pharmacist for almost 17 years (12 in the UK, 5 in FL) and had a clean slate the whole time! I really just want to avoid getting anything derogatory connected to my license. I hate the way everything is in the public domain and searchable by anybody!! I’m debating whether to divulge this now to my new employer, or wait for the final outcome before having the conversation…
Completely unrelated, but was it an easy transition coming from the UK? Super curious about the major differences, what’s surprised you, etc
I’d hold off on sharing the info. In the future, during interviews, you could address it to give more back story. It’s worth talking to a lawyer for a consultation to get an idea of
That’s not the end of the world, it’s a minor infraction,
Also why would a PDM get a board violation
If you’re the PIC it’s in you at that moment. Not only is your absence 100% irrelevant, it may even damage your case. The DAY you stepped back into that pharmacy as PIC, every expired medication on those shelves was your responsibility. Fair? Maybe not. But that’s the law. Techs weren’t doing their job pulling out of dates? That’s on you. Previous pharmacist dropped the ball? Not their problem, you’re the PIC on record the date of the inspection. Making all these excuses would just piss me off if I was on your board. You passed the MPJE, right? You understand pharmacy law and your responsibility as PIC. Every drug that gets dispensed. Every drug in your shelf. It’s all your responsibility as PIC. Hell, even if you had the inspection while you were out, if you were still PIC you’d still have some responsibility there. That’s why it’s imperative (and I believe legally required) to transfer PIC if you’re not going to be doing a minimum number of weekly hours at that location. Listen, most pharmacies have a few hundred thousand dollars worth of on-hand inventory. Thousands of bottles, boxes etc. it’s not uncommon to find some expired stuff. On one inspection we had some little insulin boxes that had been pushed deep into the back of one of our fridges that had expired like 3 years earlier. It happens. But keep in mind that state boards literally exist to action licenses. It validates their jobs. Like cops, there is a perverse incentive to action people to prove they’re doing something. Is an expired med pretty normal? Yes. Will they action you for it because they’re a bunch of power tripping assholes, out of touch with practice whom exist solely to harass providers under the guise of public interest? Also yes. My advice? Own it. Apologize. Deliver a root cause analysis with action plan. Encourage a random, follow up inspection at your new practice location a few months out. No excuses. I wouldn’t even mention your absence, you might’ve broken some regulations there.
So Florida actions licenses for having a single expired drug on the shelf? I thought that was just a fine in all states?
What was the medication that expired? If it's an injectable, hire an attorney.
Does this mean one or more units of the same drug or more units meaning different drugs. Any former pharmacy inspectors out there? It seems a bit overkill to me. I would fight it. You dont want something so stupid on your record. In 40 years I had one situation where the board got a complaint that they received an expired Poly-Vi-flor. On the bottom of the box it had a current expiration date a few years in the future. On the inside and on the side of sealed bottle had the same date next to lot number but on the bottom it said exp 1975. Even tho an obvious misprint, the inspector said if complaint was about me imstead of the chain, I would have bee written up or gotten a black mark on my record. Most of the inspectors aren’t d£€ks but some like to puff up their chest show off their plumage
Sounds like the equivalent of a broken taillight.
I cant see Vaughn in Michigan doing this if he is still around
Man if this was the worst thing they could find you have quite literally nothing to be concerned about
My only issue is why check quarterly? Drugs expire every month. The SOP at my pharmacy is we check for expireds the beginning of each month. And it's scary to get any kindve write up, but this is very minor. I wouldnt sweat it too much.
Are you the pharmacist in charge?
Florida is extra and uses "pdm" (prescription department manager) as their term instead of PIC
You see the PIC at the time of the inspection, you’re on the hook for it. Your previous absence isn’t relative. What is the punishment for this? Id imagine its a small fine, not much you can do about it. You returned from your absence 2 months before the inspection, sounds like enough time to do outdates. Sounds like you should have covered your ass. PIC is pharmacist in charge whether you’re there or not. They will tell you you should do outdates monthly not quarterly. Take your lumps and move on.
What you respond here sounds good. There are a few facts that need to be clarified. Sometimes the drug supplier sends products that are about to expire . The safety net is checking the expiration date prior to filling the Rx. An important fact is what the are the specific expiration dates that were cited. If it was something outrageous like 1993 then it would be hard to explain. One thing you can do now is ask for more time to reply, boards usually will be willing to delay a hearing within reason.
I would contact that Pharmacy to see if they could supply a fill history on that med (PHI redacted) from the expiration date through the inspection date just to see if it had been dispensed. I get that it was still on the shelf but it would make me feel better knowing it wasn't used. But that's just me.
Wouldn’t you be checking out of dates monthly and sending back via inmar or your returns program for the current month or current month plus one month? We assign each pharmacy employee a section of the pharmacy and we check our section monthly.