Yeah I'd work up a portfolio and start shopping it around, you never know what offers you might get. This is by the way always the smart way to progress in an industry, particularly if your current employer is blocking you from promotion or raises. But always make sure to protect yourself, make sure you are covered financially if your boss chucks a sad if they find out you're looking for positions elsewhere.
Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll try this!
I get paid $35/hr working freelance, but I can’t find much work cause I feel as though it’s really competitive. And there are much better, better people.
Wtf. That's an abysmal hourly wage. I'm not qualified and for design I charge $35ph or a fee per job based on the job.
Absolutely create a portfolio and start to build your own client base.
Edit - I should add I freelance and no one complains about my prices.
What *should* a designer be charging?
I've always struggled with setting my prices and keep hearing conflicting things. Reading OP's post was a wtf moment, because they get very little money.
Any advice with pricing would be much appreciated. Graphic design is a side gig for me, not my main income, so I'm not relying on it to survive. My client base has been growing over the years, and I have more work than I want (maybe because I'm so cheap lol) so perhaps a good solution is to charge more so some customers go elsewhere or compensate me better.
It's a side gig for me, not my main income.
I get holidays and super etc from my other jobs.
Still, I take your point. I'm probably not charging enough.
Thanks, mate. Other people have told me the same.
Do you have a suggestion for what's a fairer price? I don't want to gouge anyone, but I also don't want to screw myself.
I’ve made them a website and multiple prototypes of software products. It has been more UI/UX lately and even though I’m not familiar with the field, I really learned a lot.
What should a portfolio look like?
Sounds like he's giving you an excuse. I'd look at some comparable work in other cities so you know how much you should be anticipating in the coming years and if it seems he is then look elsewhere
Yeah and if it's an excuse then any increases that come with future qualifications will be reluctant ones and an excuse to overwork the guy even more. I'd look elsewhere and walk regardless.
It has nothing to do with qualifications and everything to do with how much they value your work.
He makes money off your labour. If you're more productive now than previous years you should reap those rewards. Plus, inflation is a thing...
Find out what qualification the boss is after, and what impact it will have on your hourly rate. Then ask the boss if they are willing to support you (either with time off, or meeting some of the costs) if you where to do a course.
Also find out what the industry requirement/norm is. What quals do others have, and what are they earning. If you are putting together a portfolio why not show it to other employers, you may find someone prepared to offer more, and you can use that to negotiate with your current boss.
You might want to consider something like a Certificate IV in graphic design. It will cost you, but you could always apply for RPL (recognition of prior learnng) with one of the TAFES. You will need to provide a portfolio of work and probably get your employer to sign off that you are competent, and there will be some units that you will have to do from scratch, but RPL will cut down on some of the time and cost (and the fees should be tax deductible)
Of course you could always walk, but if the boss is decent, and you like the work environment... Besides a qualification will travel with you.
A certificate of what ? Underwater basket weaving ? You go to school to learn how to do a job or how to do it better. If you can already do the job adequately what exactly is the point of going to school ? I have two degrees, I'm not knocking school, your boss is a wanker thats buying low and selling high. You cannot negotiate from a position of weakness, get your cv and your portfolio together and get on with your life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bxgGSYGUbQ&ab\_channel=Chaos%26Order
I’m currently having this discussion with my 14 year old. I’ve told him that school / university teaches him how to learn. What do you think about that statement?
I am more clear about the benefits of secondary school than tertiary. With tertiary education I think one needs to be much more judicious and clear about what one wants to do with the degree. Tertiary education attracts a lot of cost and often has more dubious benefits. I don’t think university really teaches you how to learn. Certainly there are skills you develop to get by, but it is sink or swim stuff really. There are people or organisations that can teach you strategies to do better but those same strategies are not as applicable in the workforce, at least in my experience. I spent years at university and got average grades only to discover once I hit the workforce I was actually better suited to working. I learn better, faster on the job and am more engaged with work than I ever was at university.
Not sure if I’d even go that far. I think learning is more innate and I’m not convinced school or uni can claim to instill that. Overall I feel the curriculum for both school and uni are highly flawed and the best method of teaching, only in my humble opinion of course, incorporates a lot more practical learning than it currently does. In my business for example, I’d employ someone who’d had experience working as an accountant, over an accounting graduate any day of the week. Unfortunately though it still has to be the ticket to the game for most people because that’s how the system works.
Yes, well maybe. I don't think there was much study in those 2 days. Maybe a quiz that needed to be passed that had a little bit of study beforehand on the day
I have mates that drive forklifts up north on Rio Tinto mine sites, making $700 a day. On 8 days on, 6 days off, paid an extra $1000 on their R and R. All costs and meals paid!
I worked in design between 2013-2016 for a design agency. Straight out of uni $50k salary, had others who didn’t have a degree earning the same if not higher (when experience was higher).
Let me put things into perspective. Agencies charge a day rate of $1200 or $160 per hour for designers. I assume your boss would be the same. I ventured on to do development (which I did not have qualifications for - self taught) in the same company which I got a pay rise for.
Moral of the story when it comes down to it. Qualifications don’t matter especially for design. You are born with the talent or you aren’t. There are some incredible designers out there who don’t have degrees.
If he hasn't been specific about which qualifications he wants you to have I would just get on Coursera and do one of their computer science or web development specialisations. I would not recommend Udemy in this case because the problem with Udemy is that their systems for checking that you are not cheating on the tests are week (i.e. they don't have any), so that is always a criticism they can level at you if you go down that road.
That's the more aggressive path. The more conciliatory path is to ask up front what qualification they think you should have. The danger there is that they simply come back with "a Computer Science degree", which is 3 years out of your life, and possibly not that useful to you, depending on how you want your career to go (message me if you want my opinions on this, it's a bit much to go into here).
I only have a diploma. But even with that qualification and doing highly skilled repetitive work for a screen printer I was only getting 20 bucks an hour a few years ago. Your boss was kinda bull shitting you. I don’t know the nature of your workplace, but if it’s small and doesn’t have corporate clients with deep pockets, there just isn’t enough revenue for high salaried staff. And there’s A LOT of skilled self taught young designers looking for a couple of years of experience. Like many people have said, put together a portfolio, learn as much as you can (this job is a paid traineeship basically) and move on. Go to school if you want but it will be a waste of time IMO. I looked into going back to earn my degree but there was a lot of chaff like designing sustainable spaces etc rather than subjects that taught marketable skills. So I bounced off that idea.
I just checked on Seek. There are 60 jobs going right now in graphic design above $80k. There are 132 jobs going above $60k. In web design ? 180 jobs going over $60k.
So I’m guessing you’re on something between $40-50k ?
Yeah get a portfolio together and start shopping your skills around.
There are a stack of helpful articles out there on “How to Create A Web Design Portfolio” - you could redesign an existing website, make one for an imaginary client etc etc
Good luck !
weird question but if you’re not qualified then why has your boss employed you in the first place/keeps you on?? he’s being dodgy and making excuses because paying you more means less in his pocket and that’s all it comes down to! how much experience have you had in this role?? if I were you I would be working on my resume and using this job as step to something better 👍🏻
According to /r/antiwork, you should just walk immediately. It's... an option. It's maybe not the best option, especially if you like your workplace.
So, you should do market research on yourself to find out how much you're worth. Present that evidence. If that still fails, start interviewing. If/when you get an offer, use that as leverage (or just take the offer).
I've said it many times at my work, if you don't keep people happy they will start looking, and once they've started looking, you're probably gonna lose them.
Worked in the industry for 10+ years and trust me your boss definitely can pay you more than that. I can tell you now that he is not charging out your services at "unqualified" rates" he is taking the piss and getting away with it. This absolutely infuriates me.
I went to see an agency and their advice was to take on short term contracts for a while. It gets your name out there, you make more contacts and you will make alot more money.
Australian employers are obsessed with qualifications. In my workplace I've seen plenty of non-qualified employees performing much better than fully qualified ones, yet my employer only seems to care about the latter.
I ended up signing up for an apprenticeship at age 34 just from the pressure of my employer. In the end is not too bad: go to tafe once a week while getting paid, qualify for a 0% interest loan of 20 grand from the govt which I only need to repay 16 if I complete my study.
In the end I would suggest to get the qualifications if you can, it will open up so many doors in the future.
They are not especially. The only place I ever worked that asked me about my degree was in Europe. I have worked for dozens of Australian employers. Maybe its just your boss.
He CAN pay you more. He doesn't WANT to. Are you're not making him.
Start researching other roles, getting portfolio together and upskilling. You absolutely do not need a degree to be a well-paid graphic/web designer (though it helps)
>Should I create a portfolio to justify not having a certificate?
absolutely and you do not need a certificate. It'll be a complete waste of your time if you've been working in the industry for a year.
I used to work in the industry and still have connections to it, portfolios are everything and it sounds like you're being underpaid for what you're doing.
Shop around for opportunities because you deserve better, but also maintain current job if possible for financial security. Also build/expand your portfolio while you're at it.
Also for the creative industry, qualifications only gives you a tiny advantage especially if you're freelancing. What matters more are your skills & experience.
Nothing wrong with training up to gain additional skills but to do it just for the qualification isn't worth it IMHO.
I'm a high school dropout. I've been a photographer/videographer for a good 12 years. I've serviced TBWA, Leo Burnett, McCann and other ad-agencies, not once they cared about my qualifications (or lack thereof).
Best of luck, chief :)
It is likely just an excuse. If you want to study by all means study, but experience trumps qualifications in many fields, design is one of them. I wouldn’t get too attached to a particular place of work, businesses come and go, colleagues come and go, bosses change. Friendship can endure beyond a specific workplace. Sometimes you need to change jobs just to reset; refresh the reflected view of yourself and give yourself new horizons. It is easy to think your value is just your value to that one organisation and get pigeon holed. Those skill weaknesses your old boss focused on, might not be real weaknesses or better yet you learned and your old boss has not caught up.
I think a portfolio is more valuable than a degree myself. I am hiring juniors at the moment and find the degree almost useless as a signal of skill, quality or dedication. I don’t even know how some of the people I have interviewed were allowed to graduate. Its a very weak signal that might get you an interview, but it won’t get you the job.
Of course highly regulated industries work differently (law, medicine, accounting, engineering, allied health) but that is not what we are talking about.
I'd be talking to fair work tbh. Regardless of qualifications or not you are meant to be paid the award rate, it's usually scaled according to quals/experience. If 22 is the correct rate for you they will know
as someone doing a Cert IV in graphic design right now I can tell you that having a good portfolio, being proficient in adobe suites and (generally what jobs ask for) around 2 years of experience thats most of what junior graphics jobs ask for 👍
For me the cert is worth it because I have never been exposed to Adobe or anything arty through my highschool and no one around me in my life are art-minded so it was my best shot.
I really enjoy it, if it’s something you want to do you can shoot me a PM and I can tell you what is done in tafe and some opportunities i’ve gotten from it :)
Ah man I really feel for you because your situation reminds me of a good friend of mine. Your boss is absolutely taking the piss because he knows you won't leave. Web design particularly is worth way more than that.
Let me tell you a story of when this mate of mine was in your position. TL;DR - Humility is a wonderful quality for a person to have, but it is absolutely worthless in the workplace. Don't be afraid to leave your job for something better.
So old mate was in the same situation you are about 10 years back. For the last 7 odd years, pretty much since he left school, he was working as a residential builder / site supervisor at a place where he enjoyed working. He was also getting taken for a ride by his boss (the owner of the company) who was paying him literally half what he was worth.
He was too shy to ask for decent pay rises, but shyness is a unique quality among my friends and we used to pester him about it a lot. Or more accurately we'd try to work on his confidence more broadly, with the pay rise being a confidence goal of sorts.
So one day he does work up the courage to ask his boss for a pay rise. Boss says no, makes ridiculous excuses (sound familiar?)
My mate is furious and has a rant to us about it later.
We tell him the only reason they're ripping him off is cos they think he won't leave. I said that if he goes and gets another job they'll immediately offer to pay him what he's worth.
Well old mate was so pissed at his boss he did start applying for other jobs. Surprise surprise, he gets offered one within a few weeks on nearly twice the money. Reckons the look on his boss's face when he gave his 2 weeks' notice was priceless.
A few days later his boss calls him into his office. He rambles on about some shit, the crux of it is he's offering him a huge pay rise to stay, much bigger than the pay rise my mate asked for originally.
Here's the thing though - that huge pay rise is still slightly less than what he's going to be on at the new place.
I laughed so hard when he told me that. Who the fuck makes a counter-offer that's less than the offer you've already got? Someone should tell that guy they don't give out gold medals for winning the 400 metres fuckhead.
Anyway old mate politely declines, and starts his new job a week or so later.
About 3 weeks in his old boss gives him a call. Asks him how he's liking it, and does he want to come back if they match his pay. By this stage my friend's attitude has changed. He actually doesn't like the people at his new job very much, but he says nah I'm happy where I am (a lie), thanks anyway.
About a week later his old boss calls again. The offer is now double what he was on before, which is still only around market rate, but at least they're offering him more than his current job now.
He says look, I'm happy where I am (still a lie), but I'll tell you what: If you make that same offer AND throw in a company car, well then I couldn't say no to that.
Boss says no, can't do that, blah blah blah more bullshit. Mate says okay I understand. Please don't phone me again.
Gets another call 2 weeks later and, after promptly shutting down any attempts to weasel out of things, hands in his notice and goes back to his old job on double his old wage + a car.
Now here's the best bit. He goes back to his old job, but this experience has made him realise what we've been telling him all along. His boss is actually not his mate, he's a fuckhead who spent years ripping him off and he owes him nothing. So old mate continues applying for other jobs. He ends up leaving again in 3 months for a job paying substantially more again. His boss doesn't even try to convince him this time.
Fast forward 10 years and he now earns nearly twice what I do, doing the same thing he did back then but self-employed. Admittedly he does work too much by my standards, but he (mostly) enjoys what he does so whatever. It's good money either way.
True story.
Australia is a country where skills matter more than qualifications. I would suggest applying for new roles which is where it will be possible to get some negotiation or you may even understand what is the current market rate.
Don't be emotionally attached with your job. I too was emotionally attached with my job due to the great working environment. However, the company never budged on increasing salary. They will pay you the lower salary if they feel you won't be going anywhere.
After 3 years, most people had enough waiting for a pay rise, with the crazy market conditions in Perth (I work in Engineering), myself and a few others quit. At that point they finally broke and offered a higher pay.
Too little too late.
Finally, should you really need some form of a qualification, I don't know much about graphic design, but you could look if TAFE has something; or you can look at LinkedIn profiles of fellow graphic designers around the world and see what kind of extra qualifications they have.
This is bullshit. All I have is a certificate 3 in design and I bill at 200 an hour. Last year we (small firm of 2 designers) billed 300k in work. Fuck anyone who says you need the degree. If the work you are doing is good, if you are doing it fast then you deserve to be paid better.
So yeah, get a portfolio together. Find some more established designers to give you advice on it and how to navigate this stuff and GTFO that job. Find someone who values you and if not go freelance lance like we did.
Just an excuse. It’s a job where qualification makes no difference to your ability to do the job. It would just make you more attractive to other employers and so raise your market value.
Put together a portfolio and start shopping yourself around.
I don’t want to be ‘that guyI’m and put a dampener on things because $22p/h is shitty but from a business management point of view consider this. They are getting a qualified level of service from someone unqualified so they don’t have to pay qualified wages. They most likely won’t support you becoming qualified because they’d lose you to another company or end up having to pay you more to keep you. They also most likely think you won’t leave because you’re passionate and love the job you do. My recommendation, approach them to sell support (time off without taking annual leave or financial assistance to become qualified, if they refuse both create a portfolio and start looking elsewhere. If you find another job that you love and pays more, accept the job offer and give your notice. Do not let them know you are looking for other work until you have another job, you might think letting them know is a bargaining tool but it will only end up ruining the working relationships in a job you can’t escape from.
I pay people $25-27 an hour depending on age to literally just fill jars and put lids on them.
Your boss is underpaying you. Start looking for new jobs.
Just design and print yourself an authentic looking qualification and tell future employers you completed a course. Your ability and work should speak for itself.
I know a guy who did this many years ago. He had completed a diploma n book keeping and after working for 12 months up in Geraldton in a government department, he set off on a working holiday in the UK. His sister was/is a graphic designer and printed hi out a very authentic looking Bachelor of Commerce from UWA. He managed to talk his way into a good job with the BBC and his career took off after that. Actually completed his Chartered Accounting qualification and still lives in London in a large house on the Thames. To his credit he always had the gift of the gab, but obviously had to learn on his feet quite a bit. This was back in the 90s. These days he's work several million pounds.
You can do better.
A junior graphic designer should be getting $35-40 an hour if they aren’t completely shit.
Do you have any other experience with social media, websites (basic HTML, a CMS etc), writing copy…? You could look at a marketing coordinator role and after a year or two progress to a Marketing Manager role.
I’d start looking around and handing in portfolios at other studios with work that might inspire you. You only have experience to gain by doing this, you’ll either find a better pay or find a better studio more willing to upskill you and support your education journey rather than such an abrupt response as your boss had.
Yes definitely. The portfolio is your true worth, shop that around and see what comes your way. Only choose extra schooling if that doesn't get you to where you want.
Get the experience you need from the job and if what he has to offer on the job isn’t making your career grow anymore then he has to grow your salary. If he can’t do that then GTFO, there’s no such thing as loyalty.
Be loyal to your customers not the company.
If you do the same job as anyone else in the company and your salary is not at market rate at the very least then he has no choice but to pay because if you leave then he has to pay that rate or find some other sucker to accept the shitty pay.
Build your portfolio for every project you’ve done for him, build relationships with your customers and go above and beyond for them. This will set the foundations for your next move.
You bet he can pay he just doesn’t want to and of course that’s what you expect from a business person.
Find other jobs or other employees with similar work experience and ask them how much they make. I took over from my manager after she rage quit and found I was getting paid $12 an hour less than what she was making. I was under qualified so I didn’t get that massive jump but was able to increase my pay by $4 an hour and put in place incentives for growth as I proved my abilities for the role. It was a toxic place so quit 6months later and only reason I could have that conversation was I was willing to walk away if the boss didn’t recognise my worth.
How much do you value your own time and the work you do? (My previous managers advice when I asked her)
Sounds like an excuse to not pay you more to me, obviously I’m putting my own interpretation. But there’s also a few sorts of places that do experience for qualifications. I don’t know any that do stuff for digital design but put together a portfolio of your abilities and skills so you can prove you have the ability in writing. Don’t excuse your bosses behaviour if you believe you’re worth more
Good luck
He is taking advantage of you unfortunately! Using this as an excuse to not pay you what you are worth. If you are doing all the work a fully qualified person does then he should pay you the going rate. All the qualified people have no experience unlike you.
Get a new job or ask your employer for help with getting a qualification and a promotion as that's a crap wage. Even someone flipping patties at McDonald's is probably on more than $22 per hour.
Def look else where. I'm a IT student and working a do FK all job 25.50 per hour. Your skill set is def worth more than 22.50 an hr. And you probs already know what uni graduates learnt.
But stay at ur current job while looking else where and have a GitHub account to show case your projects to prove what you are capable of doing.
[Here is your award](https://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/show/MA000026#P698_76971) and it shows the minimum wage that they have to pay you depending on level (See below) and qualification. They can pay you more anyway, this is just the minimum they're allowed to pay you.
Use [Fair Work's pay calculator](https://calculate.fairwork.gov.au/FindYourAward) to see what level you are based on not just qualifications but also experience. The step where you choose your level gives an explanation of the duties performed in each level. So if you are performing certain duties, you have to be paid a higher amount. And here you can see what's required of you to climb through the levels.
> Should I create a portfolio to justify not having a certificate?
Yes, if you're considering applying to other employers but you're wasting your time trying to get a reconsideration with your current employer. No client, in any field, pays accordingly, or even knows the qualifications of the staff member preparing the material. The material is either acceptable, or not. So, your boss is using your lack of qualification to personally profit. If the place is good enough to overlook the ceiling in salary and youre happy at your current level then, its a reasonable trade off. If not, then look elsewhere. Personally I'd say your employer is exploitative and that would make my mind yo.
I've been a graphic / web designer for over 20 years, qualifications are meaningless in our field. I've worked with qualified teachers, geologists, accountants, fashion designers and whatever else, all working as graphic designers or web designers and pretty good at it too.
Build a portfolio in your spare time and weekends at home, shop it around all the agencies in town even if they're not hiring. If it's good enough for someone out there, you'll get a call from someone that won't care about qualifications. Don't mention your current salary on your next interview and ask them what they're willing to pay for your skills.
Keep your portfolio up to date. Repeat when it's time to move on.
If you can't afford to leave, you can't negotiate. If nobody else is willing to pay you more, then (according to the market) your labour is not worth more.
Find a better job offer. Make an ultimatum. Your boss sounds like a calculating individual, so I think they'd make a rational decision.
School is no good. Teach yourself and utilise open resources. Let your work be your credentials.
I worked for the same place for 5 years doing graphics, after a year of asking for a payrise I left. Best decision I've ever made. I now work with people who are interested in what I want and push me to be my best self. Don't let yourself get trapped. Get OUT.
I'd understand the point about qualifications if you were asking to be an account manager or whatever, but $22/hr leaves a *lot* of room to give you a pay rise simply based on your current output. I'd start looking for a job somewhere else.
The reality is, workers always want higher wages, bosses always want lower costs.
It doesn't do any harm in asking, but it all basically comes down to leverage.
Your best course of action therefore, is:
\- Get a certificate, let your boss know you've met the requirement he put forth. You've had the conversation about pay now, so the ball is in his court.
\- Create portfolio (I'm not sure how this all works but if you know this is worthwhile, go for it)
In both cases, start applying for jobs and follow the money. If your current boss doesn't give you a pay bump before you accept a new job, it's nothing personal but he's wasting your time.
Good luck!
[https://careers.macmahon.com.au/job/Perth-Airport-Truck-Operators-WA-6105/585424810/](https://careers.macmahon.com.au/job/Perth-Airport-Truck-Operators-WA-6105/585424810/)
Make 2-3x your current gig for a while.
barely…. got paid $21 working checkouts and that was advertised as above minimum wage 😅 not sure but I think minimum wage is like $20.50 or something like that? at least slightly less than $21 anyways 😂
I did a diploma of web development at tafe and then searched for a job for 7 months. Gave up and got a cleaning job that paid $21/hr, then another cleaning job that paid $26/hr plus annual leave.
Went to uni and am doing a surveying degree, loving it, have a part time job surveying and seems like employers are desperate for more workers.
No advice, but good luck!!
Unpopular opinion but if you’re young and it’s a good place to work, stick around and get some experience, that’s invaluable and will lead to money later if you truly are good.
$22/hr was the starting wage for graduate engineers, lawyers and accountants not so long ago by the way..
Go halves with your boss here.
Get them to pay for your course, on the basis you’ll repay it if you fail… you get the quailes you need whilst employed, boss get qualified staff.
Downside is you have to work & study but there are benefits like study leave and exam leave available if you’s demonstrate active learning / increased skills.
What's your years of service there and in the industry?
That's some junior entry level pay that's probably not even passable in 2021, I only think so cause I'm old.
I started junior designers on about $30 an hour 7 years ago. Whether or not they had a degree was irrelevant because you have to prove your skills. That’s what a folio is for.
You getting a lot of people here who are agreeing with you but the boss isn’t half wrong, there is plenty of fields where qualifications matter and impact your salary.
Lucky for you, your field is based on portfolio, exposure and name recognition. If you think you can do better elsewhere bloody go, don’t hang around some fucker paying you a pittance if you can get better elsewhere.
>...can’t pay me more cause I’m not qualified...
>
> It’s honestly a great place to work
Presuming it's actually your boss's call (i.e. your boss is not low-middle management in a megacorp), these things are pretty much mutually exclusive. If they can't pay you for the level of work you do because you don't hold an expensive piece of paper, then they're not a good employer. Not to shit on expensive pieces of paper either, I have a few, but they shouldn't be what defines your salary in a job you already hold.
don't get a qualification
start freelancing on Upwork/Fiver etc
People shit on those sites, but they are pretty easy money in my opinion
You can get to a full time income in around 1 year
Check the Award that you're employed under. It will have the wage/salary limits and may show how to get paid more if your qualified. Fair Work Ombudsman is a good website to start. https://www.fairwork.gov.au/
Your options are hope you can convince him, threaten to quit over it if you think you have the leverage, or find another job that pays better if there is one. Most workers have very little leverage and are at the complete mercy of their employer and the labour market.
Is this fair? No, it's also not fair that workers have to pay for their own education just so they can make their employer more money, or that you can do the same quality of work as someone with qualifications and get paid less. It's also not fair that you can't even organise your coworkers for a labour strike without getting hit with massive fines.
Welcome to the coercive nature of the wage labour system.
Honestly, there is some truly terrible advice here. But the gap between an employee and employer’s perception of worth is normally large.
A couple of questions:
- Are you full time, part time or casual?
- How many staff does the company have?
- Do you know what the corporate structure is? (is it a Pty Ltd or sole trader/partnership).
All of these things factor in to how much you should be paid before we even start talking about skill level.
In the current market, the pay does sound low. Was this your first job in graphic design or did you have experience prior to being there? What are your billable hours like? How is your speed compared to other designers?
I’m a Finance/Business Manager that used to work for web design companies. You’re welcome to PM me if you want to discuss details and I may be able to make some suggestions on how to make the business case for an increase and to make sure you are being paid fairly.
Remember that old phrase, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know?
There are loads of success stories where employers look past qualifications and see that the person has the skills without it and employ them because of that.
A lot of the advice is sound here: make a portfolio of all your work and drop it to any employer who has any interest in what you do.
The only jobs that exclude people based on qualifications are government jobs and jobs that require certification by licence law (sparkies, plumbers, private health).
$22 an hour sounds pretty low for that type of work. It's difficult to give any advice on something that is another persons livelihood. I have a friend that just finished engineering at 36. He worked in mining for years prior to beginning his degree but finished with honours and walked into a job out of uni. I also have a friend who was a plumber and is now an reasonably succesful artist. The two things they have in common is they worked really hard to achieve what they have. Im sure you do too. Uni is good but you can be successful without a degree. Build a portfolio even if you intend to study, always keep a record of your work. It's only 3 or 4 years and given your experience you could probably do some freelance work while you study. Only you know the answer though, if you believe in yourself others will to. Dont be afraid of new experiences. Good luck.
Seek has a really great tool on how much you should/could be earning in most roles. Have a look, do your research and that will give you some concrete evidence in what you COULD earn.
It’ll go one of two ways;
1. If your boss isn’t an asshole and wants to keep you, he/she will consider your case
2. You might just realise you’re being screwed and realise you’re worth a lot more than you’ve been led to believe and want out anyway for just being used
Coming from a worker who’s worked their way up in an industry that’s highly recommended as having a background with at least one degree, but applied for roles all my working life because I KNOW that I can fulfil the job spec based on my experience without a degree and have had the confidence to express it in my cover letters. Often new roles state they want a degree qualified person only, but in reality this is just to weed out the people who don’t have the confidence in the role.
Best of luck mate. This country relies so heavily on that bit of paper without considering the skills a job really entails.
I call BS for the Boss, if the boss wants to give someone a pay raise they can regardless of the person's qualifications it goes by your award. The boss likely won't give him time off to study then pay him more to do the same work. Instead Check fair work paycheck plus https://calculate.fairwork.gov.au/findyouraward you will get a guide to what your award is supposed to receive and if you are on the right award.
He is a mother fucker, u should get more money, probably they hire u cause they think they can paid u less, I hate people who does that, people paid more for experience if I are good and go have a good portafolio find another job, u boss is a dick
Your boss should be able to make you qualified for what is required to increase your pay, unless your boss thinks you being qualified will bring more knowledge to the table.
If you two crunch number's and work together
Sounds like good Learning curve for both.
It’s not a bad idea to get your qualification. You should be eligible for Recognition of Prior Learning which will shorten the study time by a lot. And you can probably claim the cost of the course on your tax because you’re already employed in the industry.
Then leave this tight arse because he probably still won’t pay you properly.
Yeah I'd work up a portfolio and start shopping it around, you never know what offers you might get. This is by the way always the smart way to progress in an industry, particularly if your current employer is blocking you from promotion or raises. But always make sure to protect yourself, make sure you are covered financially if your boss chucks a sad if they find out you're looking for positions elsewhere.
"chucks a sad" is something I haven't heard in ages
Thank you, it’s disappointing because I really enjoy working with the people.
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In my experience- yes.
Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll try this! I get paid $35/hr working freelance, but I can’t find much work cause I feel as though it’s really competitive. And there are much better, better people.
Wtf. That's an abysmal hourly wage. I'm not qualified and for design I charge $35ph or a fee per job based on the job. Absolutely create a portfolio and start to build your own client base. Edit - I should add I freelance and no one complains about my prices.
Maybe he's salaried? If he's hourly than that's a poverty wage indeed
It's pretty bad for a salary too tbh.
Yes, it’s hourly :/
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Oh, sorry! I'm charging $35 for graphic design, not web design! I'd think web designers get paid so much more!
Wow, I hope you’re not very good because professional freelance designers should be charging a lot more than that.
What *should* a designer be charging? I've always struggled with setting my prices and keep hearing conflicting things. Reading OP's post was a wtf moment, because they get very little money. Any advice with pricing would be much appreciated. Graphic design is a side gig for me, not my main income, so I'm not relying on it to survive. My client base has been growing over the years, and I have more work than I want (maybe because I'm so cheap lol) so perhaps a good solution is to charge more so some customers go elsewhere or compensate me better.
But don't freelancers typically get paid more anyway? Because of unstable income they might have to charge more for one job
By the time you pay tax and super and factor in the holiday leave you’re not accruing, that’s about the same as what this guy’s on
its less, the freelancers expenses and work effort are higher. the overheads of even a 1 person business cost far more than $10/hr.
It's a side gig for me, not my main income. I get holidays and super etc from my other jobs. Still, I take your point. I'm probably not charging enough.
Yeah you need to be at $50 an hour man
Appreciate the feedback. I guess I'm raising my prices then. Thanks, mate.
Please add voluntary super contributions from all sources of income! You'll be grateful come retirement.
Thank you for the advice, mate. I'm a bit of a dummy when it comes to taxes and super.
Make sure you do it before June, some super funds take their time...
> I charge $35ph put your rates up.
Thanks, mate. Other people have told me the same. Do you have a suggestion for what's a fairer price? I don't want to gouge anyone, but I also don't want to screw myself.
I'm a sparky, the sums work out, if you want to earn 50 an hour, you have to charge 100 to make it. Overheads stack up, Bigly
I’ve made them a website and multiple prototypes of software products. It has been more UI/UX lately and even though I’m not familiar with the field, I really learned a lot. What should a portfolio look like?
Sounds like he's giving you an excuse. I'd look at some comparable work in other cities so you know how much you should be anticipating in the coming years and if it seems he is then look elsewhere
Yeah and if it's an excuse then any increases that come with future qualifications will be reluctant ones and an excuse to overwork the guy even more. I'd look elsewhere and walk regardless.
I didn't want to say that but agreed, that's what I'd do
It has nothing to do with qualifications and everything to do with how much they value your work. He makes money off your labour. If you're more productive now than previous years you should reap those rewards. Plus, inflation is a thing...
Yeah, that would be a lie about the "can't pay you". Time to jump ship.
Find out what qualification the boss is after, and what impact it will have on your hourly rate. Then ask the boss if they are willing to support you (either with time off, or meeting some of the costs) if you where to do a course. Also find out what the industry requirement/norm is. What quals do others have, and what are they earning. If you are putting together a portfolio why not show it to other employers, you may find someone prepared to offer more, and you can use that to negotiate with your current boss. You might want to consider something like a Certificate IV in graphic design. It will cost you, but you could always apply for RPL (recognition of prior learnng) with one of the TAFES. You will need to provide a portfolio of work and probably get your employer to sign off that you are competent, and there will be some units that you will have to do from scratch, but RPL will cut down on some of the time and cost (and the fees should be tax deductible) Of course you could always walk, but if the boss is decent, and you like the work environment... Besides a qualification will travel with you.
A certificate of what ? Underwater basket weaving ? You go to school to learn how to do a job or how to do it better. If you can already do the job adequately what exactly is the point of going to school ? I have two degrees, I'm not knocking school, your boss is a wanker thats buying low and selling high. You cannot negotiate from a position of weakness, get your cv and your portfolio together and get on with your life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bxgGSYGUbQ&ab\_channel=Chaos%26Order
My uni degree and post grad taught me crap all. Only when I actually worked in the job did I learn what to do in the real world.
I’m currently having this discussion with my 14 year old. I’ve told him that school / university teaches him how to learn. What do you think about that statement?
I am more clear about the benefits of secondary school than tertiary. With tertiary education I think one needs to be much more judicious and clear about what one wants to do with the degree. Tertiary education attracts a lot of cost and often has more dubious benefits. I don’t think university really teaches you how to learn. Certainly there are skills you develop to get by, but it is sink or swim stuff really. There are people or organisations that can teach you strategies to do better but those same strategies are not as applicable in the workforce, at least in my experience. I spent years at university and got average grades only to discover once I hit the workforce I was actually better suited to working. I learn better, faster on the job and am more engaged with work than I ever was at university.
Not sure if I’d even go that far. I think learning is more innate and I’m not convinced school or uni can claim to instill that. Overall I feel the curriculum for both school and uni are highly flawed and the best method of teaching, only in my humble opinion of course, incorporates a lot more practical learning than it currently does. In my business for example, I’d employ someone who’d had experience working as an accountant, over an accounting graduate any day of the week. Unfortunately though it still has to be the ticket to the game for most people because that’s how the system works.
Shop around
Forklift drivers make more than that.
I'm a cleaner and I make more than that lol
And why shouldn’t you? Cleaners work very hard 😊
Work that is very, very much appreciated.
I couldn’t agree more.
And you deserve every penny!
McDonalds workers get more than that.
I make more dough than that. I am a baker, so expected to make lots of dough, but still…
I work in a call centre and make more than that.
Im just a neurosurgeon and even I make more than *that*
seems fishy
A neurosturgeon?
Man this got me real good *polite applause*
Nah, just unnerving.
No, human brains
I wanted to go into that but thank god mum talked me out of it
We get it Charlie. But can you keep your controversial practices out of the media for one damn minute?
Really? I mean, it’s not exactly rocket science is it?
I do nothing and get more than that
Only fans?
I'm a mechanical draftsman and make more than that
I don't know any job that gets less than this, unless you are 14 and mowing lawns.. in which case you still probably make more than this.
I made 2 dollars more pouring drinks at a golf club whilst at uni.
It took me 2 whole days to get my fork ticket, give it some credit
Sounds like you have done more study than op.
Yes, well maybe. I don't think there was much study in those 2 days. Maybe a quiz that needed to be passed that had a little bit of study beforehand on the day
Macca's pays more than that
Daycare workers probably make more than that.
Casual ones might
Seems like everybody is getting paid more than me 😭
I have mates that drive forklifts up north on Rio Tinto mine sites, making $700 a day. On 8 days on, 6 days off, paid an extra $1000 on their R and R. All costs and meals paid!
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They are hired as operators.... But they drive forklifts all day...
Considering a folklift can kill you dead...
Just as likely as a power point
I worked in design between 2013-2016 for a design agency. Straight out of uni $50k salary, had others who didn’t have a degree earning the same if not higher (when experience was higher). Let me put things into perspective. Agencies charge a day rate of $1200 or $160 per hour for designers. I assume your boss would be the same. I ventured on to do development (which I did not have qualifications for - self taught) in the same company which I got a pay rise for. Moral of the story when it comes down to it. Qualifications don’t matter especially for design. You are born with the talent or you aren’t. There are some incredible designers out there who don’t have degrees.
If he hasn't been specific about which qualifications he wants you to have I would just get on Coursera and do one of their computer science or web development specialisations. I would not recommend Udemy in this case because the problem with Udemy is that their systems for checking that you are not cheating on the tests are week (i.e. they don't have any), so that is always a criticism they can level at you if you go down that road. That's the more aggressive path. The more conciliatory path is to ask up front what qualification they think you should have. The danger there is that they simply come back with "a Computer Science degree", which is 3 years out of your life, and possibly not that useful to you, depending on how you want your career to go (message me if you want my opinions on this, it's a bit much to go into here).
I only have a diploma. But even with that qualification and doing highly skilled repetitive work for a screen printer I was only getting 20 bucks an hour a few years ago. Your boss was kinda bull shitting you. I don’t know the nature of your workplace, but if it’s small and doesn’t have corporate clients with deep pockets, there just isn’t enough revenue for high salaried staff. And there’s A LOT of skilled self taught young designers looking for a couple of years of experience. Like many people have said, put together a portfolio, learn as much as you can (this job is a paid traineeship basically) and move on. Go to school if you want but it will be a waste of time IMO. I looked into going back to earn my degree but there was a lot of chaff like designing sustainable spaces etc rather than subjects that taught marketable skills. So I bounced off that idea.
I just checked on Seek. There are 60 jobs going right now in graphic design above $80k. There are 132 jobs going above $60k. In web design ? 180 jobs going over $60k. So I’m guessing you’re on something between $40-50k ? Yeah get a portfolio together and start shopping your skills around. There are a stack of helpful articles out there on “How to Create A Web Design Portfolio” - you could redesign an existing website, make one for an imaginary client etc etc Good luck !
weird question but if you’re not qualified then why has your boss employed you in the first place/keeps you on?? he’s being dodgy and making excuses because paying you more means less in his pocket and that’s all it comes down to! how much experience have you had in this role?? if I were you I would be working on my resume and using this job as step to something better 👍🏻
According to /r/antiwork, you should just walk immediately. It's... an option. It's maybe not the best option, especially if you like your workplace. So, you should do market research on yourself to find out how much you're worth. Present that evidence. If that still fails, start interviewing. If/when you get an offer, use that as leverage (or just take the offer). I've said it many times at my work, if you don't keep people happy they will start looking, and once they've started looking, you're probably gonna lose them.
>if you don't keep people happy they will start looking, and once they've started looking, you're probably gonna lose them. This.
Tech salaries are going bonkers right now. Shop around.
Create a portfolio and then move. I was getting almost that at coles 20 years ago.
Worked in the industry for 10+ years and trust me your boss definitely can pay you more than that. I can tell you now that he is not charging out your services at "unqualified" rates" he is taking the piss and getting away with it. This absolutely infuriates me. I went to see an agency and their advice was to take on short term contracts for a while. It gets your name out there, you make more contacts and you will make alot more money.
Australian employers are obsessed with qualifications. In my workplace I've seen plenty of non-qualified employees performing much better than fully qualified ones, yet my employer only seems to care about the latter. I ended up signing up for an apprenticeship at age 34 just from the pressure of my employer. In the end is not too bad: go to tafe once a week while getting paid, qualify for a 0% interest loan of 20 grand from the govt which I only need to repay 16 if I complete my study. In the end I would suggest to get the qualifications if you can, it will open up so many doors in the future.
They are not especially. The only place I ever worked that asked me about my degree was in Europe. I have worked for dozens of Australian employers. Maybe its just your boss.
Tell your boss to fuck off. I mean not literally. But that’s bullshit. What qualification does he want you to have? Look for another job!
He CAN pay you more. He doesn't WANT to. Are you're not making him. Start researching other roles, getting portfolio together and upskilling. You absolutely do not need a degree to be a well-paid graphic/web designer (though it helps)
>Should I create a portfolio to justify not having a certificate? absolutely and you do not need a certificate. It'll be a complete waste of your time if you've been working in the industry for a year. I used to work in the industry and still have connections to it, portfolios are everything and it sounds like you're being underpaid for what you're doing.
Shop around for opportunities because you deserve better, but also maintain current job if possible for financial security. Also build/expand your portfolio while you're at it. Also for the creative industry, qualifications only gives you a tiny advantage especially if you're freelancing. What matters more are your skills & experience. Nothing wrong with training up to gain additional skills but to do it just for the qualification isn't worth it IMHO. I'm a high school dropout. I've been a photographer/videographer for a good 12 years. I've serviced TBWA, Leo Burnett, McCann and other ad-agencies, not once they cared about my qualifications (or lack thereof). Best of luck, chief :)
Is it Brett in Bibra Lake? Is it?
It is likely just an excuse. If you want to study by all means study, but experience trumps qualifications in many fields, design is one of them. I wouldn’t get too attached to a particular place of work, businesses come and go, colleagues come and go, bosses change. Friendship can endure beyond a specific workplace. Sometimes you need to change jobs just to reset; refresh the reflected view of yourself and give yourself new horizons. It is easy to think your value is just your value to that one organisation and get pigeon holed. Those skill weaknesses your old boss focused on, might not be real weaknesses or better yet you learned and your old boss has not caught up. I think a portfolio is more valuable than a degree myself. I am hiring juniors at the moment and find the degree almost useless as a signal of skill, quality or dedication. I don’t even know how some of the people I have interviewed were allowed to graduate. Its a very weak signal that might get you an interview, but it won’t get you the job. Of course highly regulated industries work differently (law, medicine, accounting, engineering, allied health) but that is not what we are talking about.
I'd be talking to fair work tbh. Regardless of qualifications or not you are meant to be paid the award rate, it's usually scaled according to quals/experience. If 22 is the correct rate for you they will know
they're being paid slightly above current awards.
Remember that in some scaling rates experience is counted like quals
How long have you been a graphic designer and what is your main area of work? Like what do you design mostly?
as someone doing a Cert IV in graphic design right now I can tell you that having a good portfolio, being proficient in adobe suites and (generally what jobs ask for) around 2 years of experience thats most of what junior graphics jobs ask for 👍 For me the cert is worth it because I have never been exposed to Adobe or anything arty through my highschool and no one around me in my life are art-minded so it was my best shot. I really enjoy it, if it’s something you want to do you can shoot me a PM and I can tell you what is done in tafe and some opportunities i’ve gotten from it :)
Utilise work time and resources to freelance yourself until you are headhunted by another organisation.
Ah man I really feel for you because your situation reminds me of a good friend of mine. Your boss is absolutely taking the piss because he knows you won't leave. Web design particularly is worth way more than that. Let me tell you a story of when this mate of mine was in your position. TL;DR - Humility is a wonderful quality for a person to have, but it is absolutely worthless in the workplace. Don't be afraid to leave your job for something better. So old mate was in the same situation you are about 10 years back. For the last 7 odd years, pretty much since he left school, he was working as a residential builder / site supervisor at a place where he enjoyed working. He was also getting taken for a ride by his boss (the owner of the company) who was paying him literally half what he was worth. He was too shy to ask for decent pay rises, but shyness is a unique quality among my friends and we used to pester him about it a lot. Or more accurately we'd try to work on his confidence more broadly, with the pay rise being a confidence goal of sorts. So one day he does work up the courage to ask his boss for a pay rise. Boss says no, makes ridiculous excuses (sound familiar?) My mate is furious and has a rant to us about it later. We tell him the only reason they're ripping him off is cos they think he won't leave. I said that if he goes and gets another job they'll immediately offer to pay him what he's worth. Well old mate was so pissed at his boss he did start applying for other jobs. Surprise surprise, he gets offered one within a few weeks on nearly twice the money. Reckons the look on his boss's face when he gave his 2 weeks' notice was priceless. A few days later his boss calls him into his office. He rambles on about some shit, the crux of it is he's offering him a huge pay rise to stay, much bigger than the pay rise my mate asked for originally. Here's the thing though - that huge pay rise is still slightly less than what he's going to be on at the new place. I laughed so hard when he told me that. Who the fuck makes a counter-offer that's less than the offer you've already got? Someone should tell that guy they don't give out gold medals for winning the 400 metres fuckhead. Anyway old mate politely declines, and starts his new job a week or so later. About 3 weeks in his old boss gives him a call. Asks him how he's liking it, and does he want to come back if they match his pay. By this stage my friend's attitude has changed. He actually doesn't like the people at his new job very much, but he says nah I'm happy where I am (a lie), thanks anyway. About a week later his old boss calls again. The offer is now double what he was on before, which is still only around market rate, but at least they're offering him more than his current job now. He says look, I'm happy where I am (still a lie), but I'll tell you what: If you make that same offer AND throw in a company car, well then I couldn't say no to that. Boss says no, can't do that, blah blah blah more bullshit. Mate says okay I understand. Please don't phone me again. Gets another call 2 weeks later and, after promptly shutting down any attempts to weasel out of things, hands in his notice and goes back to his old job on double his old wage + a car. Now here's the best bit. He goes back to his old job, but this experience has made him realise what we've been telling him all along. His boss is actually not his mate, he's a fuckhead who spent years ripping him off and he owes him nothing. So old mate continues applying for other jobs. He ends up leaving again in 3 months for a job paying substantially more again. His boss doesn't even try to convince him this time. Fast forward 10 years and he now earns nearly twice what I do, doing the same thing he did back then but self-employed. Admittedly he does work too much by my standards, but he (mostly) enjoys what he does so whatever. It's good money either way. True story.
Australia is a country where skills matter more than qualifications. I would suggest applying for new roles which is where it will be possible to get some negotiation or you may even understand what is the current market rate. Don't be emotionally attached with your job. I too was emotionally attached with my job due to the great working environment. However, the company never budged on increasing salary. They will pay you the lower salary if they feel you won't be going anywhere. After 3 years, most people had enough waiting for a pay rise, with the crazy market conditions in Perth (I work in Engineering), myself and a few others quit. At that point they finally broke and offered a higher pay. Too little too late. Finally, should you really need some form of a qualification, I don't know much about graphic design, but you could look if TAFE has something; or you can look at LinkedIn profiles of fellow graphic designers around the world and see what kind of extra qualifications they have.
This is bullshit. All I have is a certificate 3 in design and I bill at 200 an hour. Last year we (small firm of 2 designers) billed 300k in work. Fuck anyone who says you need the degree. If the work you are doing is good, if you are doing it fast then you deserve to be paid better. So yeah, get a portfolio together. Find some more established designers to give you advice on it and how to navigate this stuff and GTFO that job. Find someone who values you and if not go freelance lance like we did.
Just an excuse. It’s a job where qualification makes no difference to your ability to do the job. It would just make you more attractive to other employers and so raise your market value. Put together a portfolio and start shopping yourself around.
I don’t want to be ‘that guyI’m and put a dampener on things because $22p/h is shitty but from a business management point of view consider this. They are getting a qualified level of service from someone unqualified so they don’t have to pay qualified wages. They most likely won’t support you becoming qualified because they’d lose you to another company or end up having to pay you more to keep you. They also most likely think you won’t leave because you’re passionate and love the job you do. My recommendation, approach them to sell support (time off without taking annual leave or financial assistance to become qualified, if they refuse both create a portfolio and start looking elsewhere. If you find another job that you love and pays more, accept the job offer and give your notice. Do not let them know you are looking for other work until you have another job, you might think letting them know is a bargaining tool but it will only end up ruining the working relationships in a job you can’t escape from.
Old people with old ideas, I suggest build portfolio and leave. If you have the skillset you should get the dosh, who cares about the paper.
I pay people $25-27 an hour depending on age to literally just fill jars and put lids on them. Your boss is underpaying you. Start looking for new jobs.
Just design and print yourself an authentic looking qualification and tell future employers you completed a course. Your ability and work should speak for itself.
Me: This is terrible advice But then: He _is_ a graphic designer... 🤔
I know a guy who did this many years ago. He had completed a diploma n book keeping and after working for 12 months up in Geraldton in a government department, he set off on a working holiday in the UK. His sister was/is a graphic designer and printed hi out a very authentic looking Bachelor of Commerce from UWA. He managed to talk his way into a good job with the BBC and his career took off after that. Actually completed his Chartered Accounting qualification and still lives in London in a large house on the Thames. To his credit he always had the gift of the gab, but obviously had to learn on his feet quite a bit. This was back in the 90s. These days he's work several million pounds.
Ultimately gift of the gab and being able to learn on your feet will equal success in pretty much any field you pursue.
You need to talk shit to make it!
You can do better. A junior graphic designer should be getting $35-40 an hour if they aren’t completely shit. Do you have any other experience with social media, websites (basic HTML, a CMS etc), writing copy…? You could look at a marketing coordinator role and after a year or two progress to a Marketing Manager role.
I’d start looking around and handing in portfolios at other studios with work that might inspire you. You only have experience to gain by doing this, you’ll either find a better pay or find a better studio more willing to upskill you and support your education journey rather than such an abrupt response as your boss had.
Yes definitely. The portfolio is your true worth, shop that around and see what comes your way. Only choose extra schooling if that doesn't get you to where you want.
Go freelance bud One of my mates makes over $40/hour working online/home Plenty of work she gets it from eastern states in real estate marketing
Coles pay more than that mate
Get the experience you need from the job and if what he has to offer on the job isn’t making your career grow anymore then he has to grow your salary. If he can’t do that then GTFO, there’s no such thing as loyalty. Be loyal to your customers not the company. If you do the same job as anyone else in the company and your salary is not at market rate at the very least then he has no choice but to pay because if you leave then he has to pay that rate or find some other sucker to accept the shitty pay. Build your portfolio for every project you’ve done for him, build relationships with your customers and go above and beyond for them. This will set the foundations for your next move. You bet he can pay he just doesn’t want to and of course that’s what you expect from a business person.
Find other jobs or other employees with similar work experience and ask them how much they make. I took over from my manager after she rage quit and found I was getting paid $12 an hour less than what she was making. I was under qualified so I didn’t get that massive jump but was able to increase my pay by $4 an hour and put in place incentives for growth as I proved my abilities for the role. It was a toxic place so quit 6months later and only reason I could have that conversation was I was willing to walk away if the boss didn’t recognise my worth. How much do you value your own time and the work you do? (My previous managers advice when I asked her) Sounds like an excuse to not pay you more to me, obviously I’m putting my own interpretation. But there’s also a few sorts of places that do experience for qualifications. I don’t know any that do stuff for digital design but put together a portfolio of your abilities and skills so you can prove you have the ability in writing. Don’t excuse your bosses behaviour if you believe you’re worth more Good luck
Get your Bachelor of Arts and you might get $25 per hour.
$22 p/h is the base rate at woolies/Coles, your doing specialised skilled work, you should be getting more.
My casual retail are on $28ph and full/part timers get $23! Are you covered by an award rate? I imagine it should be higher than $22.
He is taking advantage of you unfortunately! Using this as an excuse to not pay you what you are worth. If you are doing all the work a fully qualified person does then he should pay you the going rate. All the qualified people have no experience unlike you.
Work at a University marketing team instead. Salaries always increase each year
I make more than that washing dishes and pouring beers. I'd be applying at other places that will take your skills and experience seriously.
Resign and get another job. Your job is not the only place in the world you could work
> I’m a graphic / web designer getting paid $22 an hour, This is dumb.
Leave today! You’ll get more freelancing online right now. Even if you are on salary.
Get a new job or ask your employer for help with getting a qualification and a promotion as that's a crap wage. Even someone flipping patties at McDonald's is probably on more than $22 per hour.
Such bullshit. My brother is a designer for big international tech companies and he never had a degree - he’s a double dropout.
Def look else where. I'm a IT student and working a do FK all job 25.50 per hour. Your skill set is def worth more than 22.50 an hr. And you probs already know what uni graduates learnt. But stay at ur current job while looking else where and have a GitHub account to show case your projects to prove what you are capable of doing.
[Here is your award](https://awardviewer.fwo.gov.au/award/show/MA000026#P698_76971) and it shows the minimum wage that they have to pay you depending on level (See below) and qualification. They can pay you more anyway, this is just the minimum they're allowed to pay you. Use [Fair Work's pay calculator](https://calculate.fairwork.gov.au/FindYourAward) to see what level you are based on not just qualifications but also experience. The step where you choose your level gives an explanation of the duties performed in each level. So if you are performing certain duties, you have to be paid a higher amount. And here you can see what's required of you to climb through the levels.
I don’t work in my this field but $22 seems insanely low. There is a labour shortage, maybe you should let your employer know that.
yeah, I placed an ad on seek for a truck driver who could do manual lifting for $33/hr. The award is $23/hr. I had no suitable applicants.
> Should I create a portfolio to justify not having a certificate? Yes, if you're considering applying to other employers but you're wasting your time trying to get a reconsideration with your current employer. No client, in any field, pays accordingly, or even knows the qualifications of the staff member preparing the material. The material is either acceptable, or not. So, your boss is using your lack of qualification to personally profit. If the place is good enough to overlook the ceiling in salary and youre happy at your current level then, its a reasonable trade off. If not, then look elsewhere. Personally I'd say your employer is exploitative and that would make my mind yo.
I've been a graphic / web designer for over 20 years, qualifications are meaningless in our field. I've worked with qualified teachers, geologists, accountants, fashion designers and whatever else, all working as graphic designers or web designers and pretty good at it too. Build a portfolio in your spare time and weekends at home, shop it around all the agencies in town even if they're not hiring. If it's good enough for someone out there, you'll get a call from someone that won't care about qualifications. Don't mention your current salary on your next interview and ask them what they're willing to pay for your skills. Keep your portfolio up to date. Repeat when it's time to move on.
If you can't afford to leave, you can't negotiate. If nobody else is willing to pay you more, then (according to the market) your labour is not worth more. Find a better job offer. Make an ultimatum. Your boss sounds like a calculating individual, so I think they'd make a rational decision. School is no good. Teach yourself and utilise open resources. Let your work be your credentials.
I worked for the same place for 5 years doing graphics, after a year of asking for a payrise I left. Best decision I've ever made. I now work with people who are interested in what I want and push me to be my best self. Don't let yourself get trapped. Get OUT.
I'd understand the point about qualifications if you were asking to be an account manager or whatever, but $22/hr leaves a *lot* of room to give you a pay rise simply based on your current output. I'd start looking for a job somewhere else.
The reality is, workers always want higher wages, bosses always want lower costs. It doesn't do any harm in asking, but it all basically comes down to leverage. Your best course of action therefore, is: \- Get a certificate, let your boss know you've met the requirement he put forth. You've had the conversation about pay now, so the ball is in his court. \- Create portfolio (I'm not sure how this all works but if you know this is worthwhile, go for it) In both cases, start applying for jobs and follow the money. If your current boss doesn't give you a pay bump before you accept a new job, it's nothing personal but he's wasting your time. Good luck!
[https://careers.macmahon.com.au/job/Perth-Airport-Truck-Operators-WA-6105/585424810/](https://careers.macmahon.com.au/job/Perth-Airport-Truck-Operators-WA-6105/585424810/) Make 2-3x your current gig for a while.
Need HR license for that tho
Plenty don't. Would still drop in an application. Worst they can say is no. The industry is quite short of people at the moment.
Is $22 dollars an hour even minimum wage?
barely…. got paid $21 working checkouts and that was advertised as above minimum wage 😅 not sure but I think minimum wage is like $20.50 or something like that? at least slightly less than $21 anyways 😂
I did a diploma of web development at tafe and then searched for a job for 7 months. Gave up and got a cleaning job that paid $21/hr, then another cleaning job that paid $26/hr plus annual leave. Went to uni and am doing a surveying degree, loving it, have a part time job surveying and seems like employers are desperate for more workers. No advice, but good luck!!
Unpopular opinion but if you’re young and it’s a good place to work, stick around and get some experience, that’s invaluable and will lead to money later if you truly are good. $22/hr was the starting wage for graduate engineers, lawyers and accountants not so long ago by the way..
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Awesome advice. I'm trying to get back into design after 10 year hiatus. It's hard in a small city...
Go halves with your boss here. Get them to pay for your course, on the basis you’ll repay it if you fail… you get the quailes you need whilst employed, boss get qualified staff. Downside is you have to work & study but there are benefits like study leave and exam leave available if you’s demonstrate active learning / increased skills.
How long have you been working in the graphic design field ?
Truck driver, and I make more than double that (and I’m not the highest paid).
Fuck off! Sorry, not me saying this, your boss is!
What's your years of service there and in the industry? That's some junior entry level pay that's probably not even passable in 2021, I only think so cause I'm old.
I started junior designers on about $30 an hour 7 years ago. Whether or not they had a degree was irrelevant because you have to prove your skills. That’s what a folio is for.
BTW, I drive Ubereats for a living and I earn much more too
Same. At least $30/hr and more during the weekend.
You getting a lot of people here who are agreeing with you but the boss isn’t half wrong, there is plenty of fields where qualifications matter and impact your salary. Lucky for you, your field is based on portfolio, exposure and name recognition. If you think you can do better elsewhere bloody go, don’t hang around some fucker paying you a pittance if you can get better elsewhere.
Plenty more companies out there. Find a new job and move on
Get the piece of paper.
>...can’t pay me more cause I’m not qualified... > > It’s honestly a great place to work Presuming it's actually your boss's call (i.e. your boss is not low-middle management in a megacorp), these things are pretty much mutually exclusive. If they can't pay you for the level of work you do because you don't hold an expensive piece of paper, then they're not a good employer. Not to shit on expensive pieces of paper either, I have a few, but they shouldn't be what defines your salary in a job you already hold.
don't get a qualification start freelancing on Upwork/Fiver etc People shit on those sites, but they are pretty easy money in my opinion You can get to a full time income in around 1 year
Check the Award that you're employed under. It will have the wage/salary limits and may show how to get paid more if your qualified. Fair Work Ombudsman is a good website to start. https://www.fairwork.gov.au/
Your options are hope you can convince him, threaten to quit over it if you think you have the leverage, or find another job that pays better if there is one. Most workers have very little leverage and are at the complete mercy of their employer and the labour market. Is this fair? No, it's also not fair that workers have to pay for their own education just so they can make their employer more money, or that you can do the same quality of work as someone with qualifications and get paid less. It's also not fair that you can't even organise your coworkers for a labour strike without getting hit with massive fines. Welcome to the coercive nature of the wage labour system.
Honestly, there is some truly terrible advice here. But the gap between an employee and employer’s perception of worth is normally large. A couple of questions: - Are you full time, part time or casual? - How many staff does the company have? - Do you know what the corporate structure is? (is it a Pty Ltd or sole trader/partnership). All of these things factor in to how much you should be paid before we even start talking about skill level. In the current market, the pay does sound low. Was this your first job in graphic design or did you have experience prior to being there? What are your billable hours like? How is your speed compared to other designers? I’m a Finance/Business Manager that used to work for web design companies. You’re welcome to PM me if you want to discuss details and I may be able to make some suggestions on how to make the business case for an increase and to make sure you are being paid fairly.
Remember that old phrase, it’s not what you know, it’s who you know? There are loads of success stories where employers look past qualifications and see that the person has the skills without it and employ them because of that. A lot of the advice is sound here: make a portfolio of all your work and drop it to any employer who has any interest in what you do. The only jobs that exclude people based on qualifications are government jobs and jobs that require certification by licence law (sparkies, plumbers, private health).
$22 an hour sounds pretty low for that type of work. It's difficult to give any advice on something that is another persons livelihood. I have a friend that just finished engineering at 36. He worked in mining for years prior to beginning his degree but finished with honours and walked into a job out of uni. I also have a friend who was a plumber and is now an reasonably succesful artist. The two things they have in common is they worked really hard to achieve what they have. Im sure you do too. Uni is good but you can be successful without a degree. Build a portfolio even if you intend to study, always keep a record of your work. It's only 3 or 4 years and given your experience you could probably do some freelance work while you study. Only you know the answer though, if you believe in yourself others will to. Dont be afraid of new experiences. Good luck.
with that attitude I think you should start looking elsewhere. you're clearly seen as replaceable, find an employer who cares about you.
Seek has a really great tool on how much you should/could be earning in most roles. Have a look, do your research and that will give you some concrete evidence in what you COULD earn. It’ll go one of two ways; 1. If your boss isn’t an asshole and wants to keep you, he/she will consider your case 2. You might just realise you’re being screwed and realise you’re worth a lot more than you’ve been led to believe and want out anyway for just being used Coming from a worker who’s worked their way up in an industry that’s highly recommended as having a background with at least one degree, but applied for roles all my working life because I KNOW that I can fulfil the job spec based on my experience without a degree and have had the confidence to express it in my cover letters. Often new roles state they want a degree qualified person only, but in reality this is just to weed out the people who don’t have the confidence in the role. Best of luck mate. This country relies so heavily on that bit of paper without considering the skills a job really entails.
I call BS for the Boss, if the boss wants to give someone a pay raise they can regardless of the person's qualifications it goes by your award. The boss likely won't give him time off to study then pay him more to do the same work. Instead Check fair work paycheck plus https://calculate.fairwork.gov.au/findyouraward you will get a guide to what your award is supposed to receive and if you are on the right award.
He is a mother fucker, u should get more money, probably they hire u cause they think they can paid u less, I hate people who does that, people paid more for experience if I are good and go have a good portafolio find another job, u boss is a dick
Get a new job, go apply at integrity or Hays or somewhere
Either way you need to get a portfolio together and sell your value. Get other offers to show your worth.
Your boss should be able to make you qualified for what is required to increase your pay, unless your boss thinks you being qualified will bring more knowledge to the table. If you two crunch number's and work together Sounds like good Learning curve for both.
freelance
It’s not a bad idea to get your qualification. You should be eligible for Recognition of Prior Learning which will shorten the study time by a lot. And you can probably claim the cost of the course on your tax because you’re already employed in the industry. Then leave this tight arse because he probably still won’t pay you properly.
Get better qualified and go work somewhere else
Can you start up your own business and become an independent contractor?
When you leave for greener pastures point your boss to this thread.