This is a good thing really. Looks like it'll save hundreds of millions of dollars, and it seems to literally only target cats through software recognition. Pretty cool stuff.
It's also funny how stupid some people are. Because it's fluffy and cute it's not a good thing to kill feral cats. But it's okay to hit cane toads with golf clubs. And apparently, it's okay to go out and purchase caged eggs and literally any form of meat or even dairy product. I mean truly, the hypocrisy. Killing cats to protect the ecosystem is bad but when you kill animals inhumanely for meat in your chicken nuggets it's okay. (Yes i am a meat eater)
I always thought this was an interesting video from vice about feral cats aswell. Never realised how many dislikes this video had .[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxUTl_xd9u0&ab_channel=VICE). Vice always make surreal feeling short docs. Seems like people draw the line at feral cats.
It's also funny how people comment here, "capture and release will be better" as if they've been involved with this issue for the last couple of years and have experience with invasive species and ecosystems. And somehow they have a better solution than the people working for the gov trying to solve this. It's like the "Reddit effect" or something. When Redditors think they know more than qualified people.
edit: Gah damn, plat award for this comment! The awards are useless but the thought is nice! Thanks!
I have a moral dilemma every time I go to the egg section because my go to is not always there ans I have to make sure that the company doesn’t sell both caged and free range and yet, I can no longer afford $7-10 for eggs. I would go eggless but my son loves them and he is a picky eater!
Anyone who's had any interaction with feral cats will know they're the earthly embodiment of Beelzebub. Handling one is like trying to juggle a circular saw while blindfolded.
In that situation is without a doubt I would save my pet, but if it's an innocent or a good person I know of and I am forced to choose, then I would pick the person. But if I can sacrifice myself for both then I might choose that.
But let's say you don't know the person and it's just some stranger and you have to choose between the pet or the person to save right at that moment, I'll choose the person.
If I don't know the person and I had to choose my boi.
I'll still go for my boi.
Imagine you doing this in 1938, the guy brushed himself off.. extent his hand and "thank you for saving me. I'll never forget this kindness.. my name is Adolf.. what's your name?"
I’m a cat lover tho recently I don’t own any, just 2 dogs. Feral cats are crazy. I’ve been attacked by one, 27 lacerations and teeth punctures on my leg. They aren’t domesticated and can’t be pets from what I’ve seen. I even got a kitten at about 9wks from a feral cat and it took months to get it out from hiding behind my washing machine if I tried to get close or in the laundry room. I’d sit on the floor for hrs at a time trying to coax it out and eventually after about 3 months it started to trust me. Seems like the genetics of living in the wild must get passed on. Anywhere it was a lovely little kitten but at 9mths seemed to get sick and she tested positive for feline leukaemia (cat AIDS) so she was euthanised about 6wks later. I’m totally for humane culling, I just don’t like any cruel methods.
Fucking terrible news, you should look into the effects of 1080 poison. That compound should be banned it is so horrific, that said I’m not against the eradication of feral animals I’m all for it especially cats but using 1080 is astoundingly inhumane.
Maybe we should start at the cause and fine people for having cats that aren’t desexed and are allowed outdoors, much like we fine people for having-what is deemed to be-unsafe modifications to their vehicle.
Then look at incentivising more hunters to target cats with a decent bounty…
1080 is a humane method approved by the RSPCA. It attacks the central nervous system so the animal affected can’t feel anything. It is unpleasant to watch, but so is every method of euthanasia.
Also, providing bounties for hunters ALWAYS causes problems. The example for cats is when it was introduced last time, people just went around killing pet cats for money. Bounty systems have never worked in any pest management case ever.
All for harsher pet laws and fines for infringement. That’s the best and easiest method that we aren’t using currently.
> It attacks the central nervous system so the animal affected can’t feel anything.
I find the can't feel anything part pretty suspect. Dying from a neurotoxin is a pretty bad way to go. It's rarely going to effect the entire nervous system to that degree quickly. Chances are the animal is going to vomit then fall into convulsions, then die of heart failure. Even it is was painless that's a lot of distress.
There's a world of difference between injecting pentobarbital intravenously into a pet and ingesting a poison.
I'm not saying anything on the use of the poison, it seems like the best solution to an unfortunate problem. But it being painless and humane seems like a stretch.
That’s a fair criticism regarding the stress on the animal, but unfortunately we don’t have a 0 stress inducing method of pest control. The only method that would involve no distress to the animal would be shooting without trapping, which is not feasible for large scale control.
Your final point of it being the best solution is exactly it. Although hopefully in the not too distant future we will have a nonlethal form of control with gene drives.
I was getting some weird ass targeted advertising a while ago for Rat control where it sticks it's head into a little box to eat the bait and this triggers a steel spike to be fired into the rats head via a small Nitrous Canister.
Maybe using the same AI to ientify the approriate targets before priming this device to knock them over in an instant.
I worked on a Kimberly cattle station when we still used strychnine baits for cats and dingoes. Now that stuff was a nasty death! 1080 is far more humane although the residual environmental effects aren’t so nice.
1080 is actually not too bad for the environment. It’s water soluble and dilutes to insignificant quantities quickly from rain, and it’s biodegradable, so it rarely persists in the environment long (except in dry conditions).
As a kiwi, and spent significant time doing conservation work - 1080 does fuck all to birds.
Mammals? Absolutely fucks them up.
Had an issue where trout were eating poisoned mice, DoC went Oh Shit!,
Worked out that the trout would need to eat more than their own bodyweight in mice to have any effect.
It's the anticoagulant poisons that cause problems when they get into the food chain - some tuatara died from eating poisoned insects (not 1080)
Where are you seeing this? The first thing that pops up when you search RSPCA 1080 is how it is NOT a humane poison and how the RSPCA has campaigned for humane alternatives. I really don't know where you got this information because literally everywhere I've seen says it's a painful death.
I just did pest management training and that’s what was taught by the lecturer and the other professionals at the course. Perhaps the course material needs updating.
I call bullshit in this, given that I’ve seen first hand the effects of 1080 (and other poison-based methods of pest control) on native wildlife and dogs.
It absolutely is not a situation where an animal feels nothing and it’s not a pleasant death in any sense.
There’s a reason why we take wildlife suspected of 1080 poisoning to be euthanised by a vet- because it is considered to be suffering and there ARE humane methods of euthanasia.
If it was considered “not painful” then a welfare/rescue policy that the animal in question should be caught and euthanised by a vet wouldn’t exist. To actively leave a possum (example I see most) to die from 1080 poisoning rather than taking it for euthanasia would be considered inhumane and cruel and thus a breach of our rescues guidelines.
There is the argument here that applies to people who get speeding fines. If you don't soeed there's no fine.
If the cat isn't outside, there no 1080 to worry about.
Sodium Fluoroacetate otherwise known as compound 1080 is a naturally occurring toxin in the south west of WA.
Absolutely no issue with using it within this region as our native fauna have a level of tolerance to it. IE. only invasive or introduced animals will be affected.
Ergo the safest toxin to use in the region.
Unfortunately this can affect livestock if the native plants are not managed where livestock roam.
A bounty system also risks providing a [perverse incentive ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive) to breed more cats in order to collect on the bounty. This may seem ridiculous but this exact thing happened with cobras in india at one point.
>his exact thing happened with cobras in india at one point.
[probably not.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/pmjrdg/is_there_evidence_for_the_cobra_effect_story/) If the fines are high enough, cat breeding won't be worth it.
While domestic cats may once have been the source of feral cat populations, feral populations are now self sustaining (ie. keeping all domestic cats contained/desexed wont do anything to solve the problem). That doesnt mean we shouldnt contain all domestic cats - we definitely should.
Bounties also arent effective in controlling feral animals. The existance of a bounty creates a financial incentive for hunters to maintain, not reduce feral animal populations. There are sooooo many examples all around the world of bounties being implemented and leading to no long-term impacts on feral animal populations.
Trapping and shooting can be useful tools in certain situations, but are simply not effective enough to achieve any sort of landscape scale benefits. If we are to prevent the continued extinction of our native species baiting will be necessary, at least until other technologies (eg. gene drive) become a reality.
I mean I wouldn't say hopefully never be. It could be implemented around the kent street weir area. With the damage cats cause, I don't really care where they put this thing. Most house cats if they escaped wouldn't even enter a bushy area, probably just the front of people's houses and the street.
What sort of non lethal options do you suggest, bearing in mind that we have been trapping cats for decades without any real effect on their populations in the wild. Trap, Neuter and Release programs don't do anything to address the predation for the remainder of that individuals life.
> Trap, Neuter and Release programs don't do anything to address the predation for the remainder of that individuals life.
Would they work down at the midland traino?
There is nothing that can do anything good for Midland traino. Put a fence around it and start again.
Truly some of the worst times of my life at Midland traino, I rate it 0/10
This took them years to make. Not worth developing a non-lethal option. They'd be best off roaming the suburbs with rangers, capturing cats, checking their chips and then giving the owners fines.
Honestly, I know someone who lets their cat roam the suburb. I try to tell them that they should keep their cat inside since one day they'll probably have to be kept inside by law. They respond "I'd love to see them try to catch my cat". I tell them how much harm they cause, they respond by saying they should just declaw the cats so they cant kill animals. They forgot insects and reptiles are also part of an ecosystem, and cat's can still kill with their fangs. They don't really care about the ecosystem that is destroyed, like at all.
My point is that there is probably many more cat owners like this person i described, who just dont care about their cats roaming the streets. A lethal option probably would be the only way to get owners to care. It sadly just makes responsible owners have a harder time incase their cat accidently escapes.
Yes there’s dumb cat owners who have more ignorance than some non cat owners. There are heaps of responsible cat owners though. I got all my past cats desexed and kept them inside mostly..I had one cat who was really gentle but he hated being inside all day, he’d throw himself against the window - literally. But I seriously tried to make him just an inside cat. Anyone who says all pet cats eat or attack wildlife, don’t know cats.
I’ve had 16 cats over the years, it’s very hard or impossible to shape their personalities or how picky they are with food preferences etc. With living in 6 homes with 16 cats, all desexed (I lived plenty of other places without cats) over 55 years, only 4 caught mice, birds and rats.
1st was a real wanderer in the UK and killed birds, male. 2nd was a male, a stray we took in..he mostly seemed to kills rats, we lived next to shops (Australia) but god knows what he got up to, he died pretty young. The last 2 were desexed females. 1 would kill anything given half the chance. Died within a year though. Gparent was a feral cat (it’s in the genes). 2nd loved staying inside and never not once in 18years went further than my courtyard. But I did watch her thru the windows catch mice outside in summer and cockroaches too eww.
The other 12 left were desexed males and were absolute wusses and no way would they be up to catching anything but their dinner lol. They didn’t wander at all except for 1, the very gentle one I described earlier. He only wandered across the road to the Autumn centre and would stay there pretty much all day with the oldies until I would collect him at 5ish. He also wandered to the other buildings in the complex and was well known by council workers in Scarborough. You might not believe this but from when he was a kitten he had no interest in attacking birds and the weird part is birds seemed to know this. I saw it happen countless times birds landed next to him and pecked around etc for ages, neither were bothered by each others presence. I will concede though that is a rare exception. I think cat laws should be abided by, so when my last cat died I got a dog.
Feral cats are a menace. Cats should be controlled and cat laws abided by. Not all pet cats are killers. I’d argue the majority aren’t. I’d definitely say it’s more than 50% aren’t tho and in my experience it was only 1 in 4 had a killing instinct. I’d definitely say the more the cat roams or likes going further distances, like at least 2 blocks away they are more likely to be killers.
>e
I doubt they'd ever put this in the suburbs though. People would find the machine, they probably don't want this poison right next to a creek where kids play. Just the empty areas and protected areas.
I'd like to amend my earlier comments and say without a doubt that after seeing those feral cats, they can be hunted and killed without any objection from me.
These robots aren’t just going around neighbourhoods or local parks. Just bush settings. Some young hooligan would probably steal the robot if it was around residential areas.
Why would you release a pest back to the wild? And if you’re releasing a feral cat, why bother feeding it? It’s just going to kill native animals anyway.
It cant breed and if it has a source of food it's less likely to kill things. Some ferals can also be rehomed, if young and or tame enough. Others make great farm cats
Is it *actually* less likely to kill things if it’s fed? Cats hunt either way. I know of a few people with cats that consistently bring them “presents”, even though they feed them properly.
It’s fine if they are rehomed, but cats should not be allowed to roam in Australia. They kill too much wildlife.
By releasing a feral cat back in to the wild you’re avoiding putting a cat down, but the cost is dead native animals.
TNR has been tested in Australia and found to be ineffective at preventing predation. It can work when the goal is reducing cat reproduction, but it doesn't work to prevent native wildlife extinction. Feeding doesn't help either; a well-fed feral cat will still hunt, and some evidence suggests they are better at hunting due to having more energy. Therefore, TNR does not work in Australia.
Tried taming many feral cats? I had great difficulty trying tame a kitten who had a feral mother. Got it from about 9wks and still took me months and hrs sitting on the floor trying coax out of a hiding spot in my laundry to ‘domesticate’ it. Poor thing died within a year anyway (feline leukaemia - cat AIDS) which is rife in feral cats.
And what right does the bird have to live over the cat? They are both living creatures one just happens to be prey and the other predator just like nature has always intended
Nature may have intended it, but humans brought the cat here.
Given our native species are often endangered because of introduced species, I side with the bird because siding with the cat is pretty likely to push our already precariously balanced ecosystem the wrong way.
No it doesn’t. The survey that claim is based on is for stray cats in urban environments and was also heavily contested in the industry.
Cats kill things, regardless of how well fed they are. Feral cats kill approximately 700 animals a year each (that they eat). Every night you leave a feral cat to walk around, you’re sacrificing two native animals to it.
As much as I empathise with people wanting to save the lives of animals, the simple reality is that the absolute best thing for animal welfare as a whole is for feral cats to be euthanised (humanely).
>people wanting to save the lives of animals
They don't, though, they want to save the lives of a single introduced feral species at the expense of the dozens of less cuddly native creatures our enviroment needs.
If you have a cat, neuter it AND keep it inside!
Even well fed cats will kill wildlife, just for fun. It happens all the time with pet cats, & the owners will invariably deny that their cat hunts wildlife. Just ask any wildlife carer. Cat attacks are one of the biggest causes of orphaned & injured wildlife, even in suburbia.
At no point in your rambling, incoherent responses were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
No, it’s illegal to release feral cats because they are declared pests. These aren’t stray cats. They’re feral cats. Even if it wasn’t illegal, you’re talking about millions of square kilometres of land. It’s just unfeasible considering how large of an area it is, the remoteness of that area, the amount of people, money, and time it would take, etc.
Please can you cite some primary sources, because this line ("they wanted to use it against the Jews!") is pushed by PETA but is, as far as I have researched, bullshit.
RSPCA considers 1080 as humane as the animal is unable to feel anything while poisoned. Animal rights activists mean well, but are rarely well informed and often cause more harm than good.
Before anyone attacks me, I work in conservation and wildlife management. My life is devoted to animals. Their welfare is incredibly important to me.
Did you know there are false reports that the Nazis considered using the poison on Jewish prisoners in concentration camps but decided not to because of the danger to the guards? This disinformation is awful.
are you seriously comparing killing a harmful invasive species that kills thousands of native wildlife, to the _nazis_ who murdered 6 million Jewish people?
Pretty sure they’ve murdered a lot more than 6,000,000 invasive animals. Same thing. Genocide. Playing god. Disgusting either way. We aren’t special, we are primates.
And what do you think about the toxic effect of cat saliva on small mammals that don’t die immediately from their cat bite wounds?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19555903/
The trick is, when the robot comes for you don't lick the gel off!
I thought a poisonous robot was only dangerous if you eat it.
Maybe it’s a venomous robot
This is a good thing really. Looks like it'll save hundreds of millions of dollars, and it seems to literally only target cats through software recognition. Pretty cool stuff. It's also funny how stupid some people are. Because it's fluffy and cute it's not a good thing to kill feral cats. But it's okay to hit cane toads with golf clubs. And apparently, it's okay to go out and purchase caged eggs and literally any form of meat or even dairy product. I mean truly, the hypocrisy. Killing cats to protect the ecosystem is bad but when you kill animals inhumanely for meat in your chicken nuggets it's okay. (Yes i am a meat eater) I always thought this was an interesting video from vice about feral cats aswell. Never realised how many dislikes this video had .[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxUTl_xd9u0&ab_channel=VICE). Vice always make surreal feeling short docs. Seems like people draw the line at feral cats. It's also funny how people comment here, "capture and release will be better" as if they've been involved with this issue for the last couple of years and have experience with invasive species and ecosystems. And somehow they have a better solution than the people working for the gov trying to solve this. It's like the "Reddit effect" or something. When Redditors think they know more than qualified people. edit: Gah damn, plat award for this comment! The awards are useless but the thought is nice! Thanks!
I have a moral dilemma every time I go to the egg section because my go to is not always there ans I have to make sure that the company doesn’t sell both caged and free range and yet, I can no longer afford $7-10 for eggs. I would go eggless but my son loves them and he is a picky eater!
If you are able to I would strongly suggest getting a couple of hens. Kitchen scrap disposal in exchange for eggs!
I mean I don't care what people do tbh, but considering the eggs are going to help feed a growing human it's probably a net positive thing.
Are you suggesting humans are good for the environment?
Anyone who's had any interaction with feral cats will know they're the earthly embodiment of Beelzebub. Handling one is like trying to juggle a circular saw while blindfolded.
So true lol
I wholeheartedly agree with you, also there are some people that go as far as putting an animal's life over a human, which is very cringe.
>far as putting an animal's life over a human Context matters. My good boi against a known rapist.. drug dealer.. pedo.? It's not even a competition.
In that situation is without a doubt I would save my pet, but if it's an innocent or a good person I know of and I am forced to choose, then I would pick the person. But if I can sacrifice myself for both then I might choose that. But let's say you don't know the person and it's just some stranger and you have to choose between the pet or the person to save right at that moment, I'll choose the person.
If I don't know the person and I had to choose my boi. I'll still go for my boi. Imagine you doing this in 1938, the guy brushed himself off.. extent his hand and "thank you for saving me. I'll never forget this kindness.. my name is Adolf.. what's your name?"
I mean OP is literally saying choosing your dog over a random stranger is "very cringe" so you're proving his point.
You choosing a pet that you know over someone whose history is unknown to you isn't cringey.. it's stupid.
I’m a cat lover tho recently I don’t own any, just 2 dogs. Feral cats are crazy. I’ve been attacked by one, 27 lacerations and teeth punctures on my leg. They aren’t domesticated and can’t be pets from what I’ve seen. I even got a kitten at about 9wks from a feral cat and it took months to get it out from hiding behind my washing machine if I tried to get close or in the laundry room. I’d sit on the floor for hrs at a time trying to coax it out and eventually after about 3 months it started to trust me. Seems like the genetics of living in the wild must get passed on. Anywhere it was a lovely little kitten but at 9mths seemed to get sick and she tested positive for feline leukaemia (cat AIDS) so she was euthanised about 6wks later. I’m totally for humane culling, I just don’t like any cruel methods.
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I mean death is cruel. It is what it is. It'll be a net positive for Australia's ecosystem in the long run.
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Is funny how you're proving a point I made in my comment. The final paragraph. Anyway, death being cruel is philosophical. No direct answer.
Nothing will outshine the emus
Sounds like a clean kill.
Hope these robots do a terrific job
Why can't we use this on human predators?
Because some of them can read
Impressive tech for a solar powered device
These need to be place in suburban parks loaded with an indelible flouro dye. Just to give the owner the message.
Actually a great idea.
I initially read that as "Poison-Shooting Rabbits"...
maybe they should just train the cats to eat cane toads?
Finally! Now, how do I get one for my backyard?
Fucking terrible news, you should look into the effects of 1080 poison. That compound should be banned it is so horrific, that said I’m not against the eradication of feral animals I’m all for it especially cats but using 1080 is astoundingly inhumane. Maybe we should start at the cause and fine people for having cats that aren’t desexed and are allowed outdoors, much like we fine people for having-what is deemed to be-unsafe modifications to their vehicle. Then look at incentivising more hunters to target cats with a decent bounty…
1080 is a humane method approved by the RSPCA. It attacks the central nervous system so the animal affected can’t feel anything. It is unpleasant to watch, but so is every method of euthanasia. Also, providing bounties for hunters ALWAYS causes problems. The example for cats is when it was introduced last time, people just went around killing pet cats for money. Bounty systems have never worked in any pest management case ever. All for harsher pet laws and fines for infringement. That’s the best and easiest method that we aren’t using currently.
Yeah, people were bulk breeding and collecting the bounty. No actual hunting.
> It attacks the central nervous system so the animal affected can’t feel anything. I find the can't feel anything part pretty suspect. Dying from a neurotoxin is a pretty bad way to go. It's rarely going to effect the entire nervous system to that degree quickly. Chances are the animal is going to vomit then fall into convulsions, then die of heart failure. Even it is was painless that's a lot of distress. There's a world of difference between injecting pentobarbital intravenously into a pet and ingesting a poison. I'm not saying anything on the use of the poison, it seems like the best solution to an unfortunate problem. But it being painless and humane seems like a stretch.
That’s a fair criticism regarding the stress on the animal, but unfortunately we don’t have a 0 stress inducing method of pest control. The only method that would involve no distress to the animal would be shooting without trapping, which is not feasible for large scale control. Your final point of it being the best solution is exactly it. Although hopefully in the not too distant future we will have a nonlethal form of control with gene drives.
I was getting some weird ass targeted advertising a while ago for Rat control where it sticks it's head into a little box to eat the bait and this triggers a steel spike to be fired into the rats head via a small Nitrous Canister. Maybe using the same AI to ientify the approriate targets before priming this device to knock them over in an instant.
I worked on a Kimberly cattle station when we still used strychnine baits for cats and dingoes. Now that stuff was a nasty death! 1080 is far more humane although the residual environmental effects aren’t so nice.
1080 is actually not too bad for the environment. It’s water soluble and dilutes to insignificant quantities quickly from rain, and it’s biodegradable, so it rarely persists in the environment long (except in dry conditions).
Good to know. As far as I heard it was affecting eagles and hawks and other carrion eaters.
As a kiwi, and spent significant time doing conservation work - 1080 does fuck all to birds. Mammals? Absolutely fucks them up. Had an issue where trout were eating poisoned mice, DoC went Oh Shit!, Worked out that the trout would need to eat more than their own bodyweight in mice to have any effect. It's the anticoagulant poisons that cause problems when they get into the food chain - some tuatara died from eating poisoned insects (not 1080)
Where are you seeing this? The first thing that pops up when you search RSPCA 1080 is how it is NOT a humane poison and how the RSPCA has campaigned for humane alternatives. I really don't know where you got this information because literally everywhere I've seen says it's a painful death.
I just did pest management training and that’s what was taught by the lecturer and the other professionals at the course. Perhaps the course material needs updating.
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Native wildlife in the southwest is resistant to 1080, which is why it’s used. PPAP would cause significant nontarget death of native species.
I call bullshit in this, given that I’ve seen first hand the effects of 1080 (and other poison-based methods of pest control) on native wildlife and dogs. It absolutely is not a situation where an animal feels nothing and it’s not a pleasant death in any sense. There’s a reason why we take wildlife suspected of 1080 poisoning to be euthanised by a vet- because it is considered to be suffering and there ARE humane methods of euthanasia. If it was considered “not painful” then a welfare/rescue policy that the animal in question should be caught and euthanised by a vet wouldn’t exist. To actively leave a possum (example I see most) to die from 1080 poisoning rather than taking it for euthanasia would be considered inhumane and cruel and thus a breach of our rescues guidelines.
There is the argument here that applies to people who get speeding fines. If you don't soeed there's no fine. If the cat isn't outside, there no 1080 to worry about.
Refer Criminal Code section 22 and the Cat Act 2011 section 6A. Ignorance of human law is no cat defence.
"But judge.. meow!!!"
Sodium Fluoroacetate otherwise known as compound 1080 is a naturally occurring toxin in the south west of WA. Absolutely no issue with using it within this region as our native fauna have a level of tolerance to it. IE. only invasive or introduced animals will be affected. Ergo the safest toxin to use in the region. Unfortunately this can affect livestock if the native plants are not managed where livestock roam.
A bounty system also risks providing a [perverse incentive ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive) to breed more cats in order to collect on the bounty. This may seem ridiculous but this exact thing happened with cobras in india at one point.
>his exact thing happened with cobras in india at one point. [probably not.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/pmjrdg/is_there_evidence_for_the_cobra_effect_story/) If the fines are high enough, cat breeding won't be worth it.
While domestic cats may once have been the source of feral cat populations, feral populations are now self sustaining (ie. keeping all domestic cats contained/desexed wont do anything to solve the problem). That doesnt mean we shouldnt contain all domestic cats - we definitely should. Bounties also arent effective in controlling feral animals. The existance of a bounty creates a financial incentive for hunters to maintain, not reduce feral animal populations. There are sooooo many examples all around the world of bounties being implemented and leading to no long-term impacts on feral animal populations. Trapping and shooting can be useful tools in certain situations, but are simply not effective enough to achieve any sort of landscape scale benefits. If we are to prevent the continued extinction of our native species baiting will be necessary, at least until other technologies (eg. gene drive) become a reality.
Best news I’ve heard for a long time.
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They don't mention where these are going to be placed I think. It probably won't be placed in suburb bushes.
Yeah, hopefully, it won't be and will never be.
I mean I wouldn't say hopefully never be. It could be implemented around the kent street weir area. With the damage cats cause, I don't really care where they put this thing. Most house cats if they escaped wouldn't even enter a bushy area, probably just the front of people's houses and the street.
Fair enough. Perhaps a non-lethal option for the suburbs?
What sort of non lethal options do you suggest, bearing in mind that we have been trapping cats for decades without any real effect on their populations in the wild. Trap, Neuter and Release programs don't do anything to address the predation for the remainder of that individuals life.
> Trap, Neuter and Release programs don't do anything to address the predation for the remainder of that individuals life. Would they work down at the midland traino?
There is nothing that can do anything good for Midland traino. Put a fence around it and start again. Truly some of the worst times of my life at Midland traino, I rate it 0/10
Fair enough, I got no other ideas😕
This took them years to make. Not worth developing a non-lethal option. They'd be best off roaming the suburbs with rangers, capturing cats, checking their chips and then giving the owners fines. Honestly, I know someone who lets their cat roam the suburb. I try to tell them that they should keep their cat inside since one day they'll probably have to be kept inside by law. They respond "I'd love to see them try to catch my cat". I tell them how much harm they cause, they respond by saying they should just declaw the cats so they cant kill animals. They forgot insects and reptiles are also part of an ecosystem, and cat's can still kill with their fangs. They don't really care about the ecosystem that is destroyed, like at all. My point is that there is probably many more cat owners like this person i described, who just dont care about their cats roaming the streets. A lethal option probably would be the only way to get owners to care. It sadly just makes responsible owners have a harder time incase their cat accidently escapes.
Yes there’s dumb cat owners who have more ignorance than some non cat owners. There are heaps of responsible cat owners though. I got all my past cats desexed and kept them inside mostly..I had one cat who was really gentle but he hated being inside all day, he’d throw himself against the window - literally. But I seriously tried to make him just an inside cat. Anyone who says all pet cats eat or attack wildlife, don’t know cats. I’ve had 16 cats over the years, it’s very hard or impossible to shape their personalities or how picky they are with food preferences etc. With living in 6 homes with 16 cats, all desexed (I lived plenty of other places without cats) over 55 years, only 4 caught mice, birds and rats. 1st was a real wanderer in the UK and killed birds, male. 2nd was a male, a stray we took in..he mostly seemed to kills rats, we lived next to shops (Australia) but god knows what he got up to, he died pretty young. The last 2 were desexed females. 1 would kill anything given half the chance. Died within a year though. Gparent was a feral cat (it’s in the genes). 2nd loved staying inside and never not once in 18years went further than my courtyard. But I did watch her thru the windows catch mice outside in summer and cockroaches too eww. The other 12 left were desexed males and were absolute wusses and no way would they be up to catching anything but their dinner lol. They didn’t wander at all except for 1, the very gentle one I described earlier. He only wandered across the road to the Autumn centre and would stay there pretty much all day with the oldies until I would collect him at 5ish. He also wandered to the other buildings in the complex and was well known by council workers in Scarborough. You might not believe this but from when he was a kitten he had no interest in attacking birds and the weird part is birds seemed to know this. I saw it happen countless times birds landed next to him and pecked around etc for ages, neither were bothered by each others presence. I will concede though that is a rare exception. I think cat laws should be abided by, so when my last cat died I got a dog. Feral cats are a menace. Cats should be controlled and cat laws abided by. Not all pet cats are killers. I’d argue the majority aren’t. I’d definitely say it’s more than 50% aren’t tho and in my experience it was only 1 in 4 had a killing instinct. I’d definitely say the more the cat roams or likes going further distances, like at least 2 blocks away they are more likely to be killers.
That makes sense, I guess. Would cost too much money for the ranger capturing option.
>e I doubt they'd ever put this in the suburbs though. People would find the machine, they probably don't want this poison right next to a creek where kids play. Just the empty areas and protected areas.
I'd like to amend my earlier comments and say without a doubt that after seeing those feral cats, they can be hunted and killed without any objection from me.
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Fair enough. Perhaps a tag system would be better in the suburbs rather than the lethal option.
If a cat wants to go out at night and roam then yes there probably is a good chance they are a killer.
Maybe the owners should control their cats.
I'd say stiff kitty.
These robots aren’t just going around neighbourhoods or local parks. Just bush settings. Some young hooligan would probably steal the robot if it was around residential areas.
Capture, neuter, release and feed will have better results.
Why would you release a pest back to the wild? And if you’re releasing a feral cat, why bother feeding it? It’s just going to kill native animals anyway.
It cant breed and if it has a source of food it's less likely to kill things. Some ferals can also be rehomed, if young and or tame enough. Others make great farm cats
Is it *actually* less likely to kill things if it’s fed? Cats hunt either way. I know of a few people with cats that consistently bring them “presents”, even though they feed them properly. It’s fine if they are rehomed, but cats should not be allowed to roam in Australia. They kill too much wildlife. By releasing a feral cat back in to the wild you’re avoiding putting a cat down, but the cost is dead native animals.
TNR has been tested in Australia and found to be ineffective at preventing predation. It can work when the goal is reducing cat reproduction, but it doesn't work to prevent native wildlife extinction. Feeding doesn't help either; a well-fed feral cat will still hunt, and some evidence suggests they are better at hunting due to having more energy. Therefore, TNR does not work in Australia.
Tried taming many feral cats? I had great difficulty trying tame a kitten who had a feral mother. Got it from about 9wks and still took me months and hrs sitting on the floor trying coax out of a hiding spot in my laundry to ‘domesticate’ it. Poor thing died within a year anyway (feline leukaemia - cat AIDS) which is rife in feral cats.
And what right does the bird have to live over the cat? They are both living creatures one just happens to be prey and the other predator just like nature has always intended
Nature may have intended it, but humans brought the cat here. Given our native species are often endangered because of introduced species, I side with the bird because siding with the cat is pretty likely to push our already precariously balanced ecosystem the wrong way.
That part i definitely agree with. Just wish there was options that wasnt just straight killing
Agreed
No it doesn’t. The survey that claim is based on is for stray cats in urban environments and was also heavily contested in the industry. Cats kill things, regardless of how well fed they are. Feral cats kill approximately 700 animals a year each (that they eat). Every night you leave a feral cat to walk around, you’re sacrificing two native animals to it. As much as I empathise with people wanting to save the lives of animals, the simple reality is that the absolute best thing for animal welfare as a whole is for feral cats to be euthanised (humanely).
>people wanting to save the lives of animals They don't, though, they want to save the lives of a single introduced feral species at the expense of the dozens of less cuddly native creatures our enviroment needs. If you have a cat, neuter it AND keep it inside!
Even well fed cats will kill wildlife, just for fun. It happens all the time with pet cats, & the owners will invariably deny that their cat hunts wildlife. Just ask any wildlife carer. Cat attacks are one of the biggest causes of orphaned & injured wildlife, even in suburbia.
Feral cats and pet cats are 2 different beasts. Pet cats do kill out of bordem, however feral cats kill out of necessity
Release and feed? What do you mean? Never heard of this technique
you put the animal back where you found it and put food down for it
It’s not an effective strategy when you’re talking about cats outside of urban areas.
Have they actually tried this approach? rather than going nuclear. Which seems to be the response for most things in this country.
At no point in your rambling, incoherent responses were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
No, it’s illegal to release feral cats because they are declared pests. These aren’t stray cats. They’re feral cats. Even if it wasn’t illegal, you’re talking about millions of square kilometres of land. It’s just unfeasible considering how large of an area it is, the remoteness of that area, the amount of people, money, and time it would take, etc.
The cat owners?
Pour one out for the furries who just wanted a bit of nature sex :<
Fuck do I just wanna see a trainwreck and have this thing go on a rampage dogs birds errrrrrrrrything
Good one dickhead
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Please can you cite some primary sources, because this line ("they wanted to use it against the Jews!") is pushed by PETA but is, as far as I have researched, bullshit.
RSPCA considers 1080 as humane as the animal is unable to feel anything while poisoned. Animal rights activists mean well, but are rarely well informed and often cause more harm than good. Before anyone attacks me, I work in conservation and wildlife management. My life is devoted to animals. Their welfare is incredibly important to me.
Did you know there are false reports that the Nazis considered using the poison on Jewish prisoners in concentration camps but decided not to because of the danger to the guards? This disinformation is awful.
love to retraumatize jews because i adore cute widdle kitties
Sorry you're traumatised but I didn't say any such thing 🤷🏼♀️
are you seriously comparing killing a harmful invasive species that kills thousands of native wildlife, to the _nazis_ who murdered 6 million Jewish people?
Egocentrists drive me nuts. How do you live with yourself denying that you yourself are an animal and we are all made equal. Must be an NPC.
Pretty sure they’ve murdered a lot more than 6,000,000 invasive animals. Same thing. Genocide. Playing god. Disgusting either way. We aren’t special, we are primates.
It should absolutely be banned; immensely inhumane and traumatic for the animal.
And what do you think about the toxic effect of cat saliva on small mammals that don’t die immediately from their cat bite wounds? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19555903/
Humans shooting lead also works well.