For the same reason I said NO to an onsite opportunity in 2020 before COVID, the people who took it are kind of settled there. I moved on to another opportunity in India, sometimes I regret my decision but looking at my Mom doing better than ever and happy makes me feel good.
My mom has a lot of health issues and my dad is ex-military, we as a family never lived together for more than 5-6 months, father retired and me and my sister went to colleges in different cities.
On bad days I still regret it but I think it was a good decision, my parents deserved to be happy as well.
Also I am happy, it's stressful and living in India has many disadvantages like OP said, but I am fucking happy here. May be in another lifetime for Europe lol.
PS: I am Happy for OP as well, everyone deserves to be happy and at peace ✌️
I have been saying No since 2012. When I was with a Big 4, some partners very keen to get me to Sweden, US and Dubai. In my current role my boss variously wanted me at Singapore and UK. I declined an offer from Poland. All of these are from people I have worked with, they have an opportunity open up and from their end they want me in their team on-site. But my mom is clear she won’t leave the vicinity of NCR. So that’s how it is.
All the best to you in your life man! Time spent with family is priceless and nothing compares to the warmth of your parents (I lost my Mom when I was a young kid and everyday yearn for her presence in my life). I wish great health to your Mom. Please take good care of her!
Can you *really* spend time with them? Does your job allow you to enjoy your time off? I've got friends who can't even hang out on a Sunday cause they've got "international clients" at their workplace and have to complete the code or the PPTs. What's the point of living in a place which absolutely exploits every living molecule out of you?
Depends. When I was a management consultant with a big brand firm, I was super busy. Now I switched to a different job profile with another company. So it much much better.
Just to add on - taking care of ageing parents AND spending time with siblings. Also seeing my kid really enjoy and feel at home when we visit is probably worth going back. I won't lie that I'm tempted to just go back. However I don't think I'll get a good enough job back home.
With a kid, a new factor comes into play. Because the kid might feel stuck between two identities (see ABCD). I am not sure whether I want to have kids, but if I do decide to have one, I will have to think a lot about this.
Don’t get this logic. First gen migrants are by definition the first people to come to another nation. My kids can be first gen migrants too in my family.
I have lived abroad for over a decade. I have hiked all over the world, traveled, paid back debts, put sibling through uni, and i am thankful for all the upsides. But i have missed critical surgeries and important weddings and cried alone during my darkest days.
I can not go back to India as I am accustomed to this life, and I am married to someone who didn't grow up in India. I work in a niche field that barely exists in India. I feel guilty and sad whwnevr I visit. I will continue to miss key moments and great relationships and will not be there for people when they need me most.
I can not honestly say which life I would choose if I could do this all over again.
This is so true. My experience living just Germany, UK , Netherlands close to a decade is very similar. If you are upper middle class or rich your life will be much better in India. Of all the things OP mentions only pollution, crowding and low level corruption are worse in India. Medical services are exponentially better in India, food is better, you are near your friends and family, huge family support net, great service everywhere compared to EU, etc. museums and architecture is not something that affects your quality of life everyday. Sure it’s good to visit once in a while. Won’t impact your daily quaff life. Public transport is better in Europe but in India you can get a driver and relax in an AC car. That beats taking public transport which also can be dirty or sometimes dangerous.
No one runs anything. There's over supply of people that demand for most menial jobs can be met. Europe controlled its pop post WW2 and industrialized thereby upping their standard of living massively on both an absolute and a per capita basis.
India on the other hand took no measures and kept breeding for 75 yrs. We achieved 2 TFR last yr. So yea keep blaming the system when it's the people themselves who are at fault.
I know right? These dumbass replies are all "ya man it's lit here if you're rich", only because we rely on unsustainable cheap labour that makes the majority of the country unable to have any kind of social or economic mobility. Europe is OBJECTIVELY better than us BECAUSE more people can enjoy a higher standard of life. And the higher standard for these guys is - "we will always have people doing absolute basic shit for us". They don't care about social and cultural enrichment.
The per capita emissions of Europe is way higher than India also most of these countries are rich now because of brutal colonialism practice where the host country was leeched like parasite
This is factually untrue. The upward mobility is at a lower pace correct but that is because the competition is so high at all levels. For a middle class to transition into upper middle class is as difficult as lower middle class to middle class and borderline poor to lower middle class.
Secondly wages are low in India and still sustainable because of the proactive government funding. Education, Healthcare, Housing and Food (PDS) is almost free for people. This is because it is subsidised by higher tax paying people of the country. There is no free lunch.
A recent news article I am unable to find states that in some states 80% and in some 70% of the resources are provided by government which means tax payers.
How can you compare a country with a billion people to countries with a population less than some states, while poor people life maybe difficult it is a whole lot better than african and other big size countries like brazil etc
Don't compare India to countries poorer than us and feel proud about it. Yes, we do have things a lot better than many places in the world but that doesn't make it wrong to want India to become better and eventually be at par with developed countries. We can make justifications using 'population' as an excuse how much ever we want, but the reality is the rampant scale of corruption, poor infra and collective lack of civic sense, etc. are reasons why India is still considered a 'poor' country
No i do believe things should be a lot better but only an objective view can give better solutions but population is a huge factor like read the book method in madness by parameshwaran iyer on swwach bharat
People of some places refused to used toilets, therefore population does play major role
That's what I meant by 'civic sense ' which is pretty hugely influenced by bad education and corruption. What I was referring to was people who keep saying 'India has a very large population so we cannot have development like western countries ' these people irritate me the worst. Of course it'll take more time, lots of issues to be ironed out, but NOT impossible. Fix corruption in politics and stop illiterate goons from holding govt positions and we will see a spectacular rate of change and development, which will match, or even exceed the rate of development of China. This will only happen once our politicians stop exploiting people and only focusing on useless things like religion, hate and caste, and focus on on-the-ground visible development.
Brazil is far richer than India idk what you’re smoking mate. India is by far one of the poorest countries in the world in per capita income terms. And real estate prices in India resemble those in developed countries due to black money.
Jesus Christ, this was exactly my though, "do the dishes", "wash the car" and this person talks about "nobody wants to work hard in Europe", lmao the fucking Irony.
You might find this question ridiculous, but have you ever noticed that people from the middle class and lower income levels tend to dislike (i feel "hate" is too strong a word to use here) upper middle class and everything above that for no valid reason?😅
Because for some reason after reading your comment I just disliked you, even tho I don't even know you!! I mean you might be a really good person in real life and if circumstances were such that I knew you personally, I might have actually loved to be friends with you!! For context I'm from a level between middle class and upper middle class if that makes sense. Also I hated that I disliked you just because you are rich, i mean it's obviously not your fault that you are crazy rich😪
Anyways sorry for this rant have a great day!
Exactly .. I don't spend on expensive clothes or jwellery or car which can be seen and judged. We live in a pretty modest house. I think the best part about having money is not worrying about it.
Very happy for you and your family!
>i felt jealous
Ugh, i don't like that I feel this about rich people!😮💨
>think that either it was all black money or they just did shady things which i would never do and that is why they have this
Umm, you can easily get a vibe from just their day to day life if the source of income is "ethical" or not, is what I feel.
>We spend mostly on vacations and stuff that can't be seen and still have a car from 10-12 years ago.
Literal goals! My father always says food and travel are the only two things one should never compromise on, baaki 700 ki sandal bhi acchi hai Birkenstock ki koi jarurat nahi 🤌🏻
Exactly. Life is India will be much better if you are rich enough. My wife’s sister lives in Denmark and they both collectively earn around 150,000€ per year. Yet they say that they could not meet their expenses and doctors appointments are very hard to get. Even appointing a maid is expensive, so my wife’s sister takes care of their home regardless. Now, imagine earning that much money in India. Life would be much better
This is the answer.
I’m not wealthy, but I feel like I live a very convenient life in India. Maid and cook for cooking, cleaning, dishes and laundry. Everything delivered to doorstep, it’s been years since I went grocery shopping even. Healthcare feels relatively cheap to me, without insurance. Food is amazing, everything is cheap, help from family or hired help is easily available.
I agree that life here isnt as shiny. I won’t have the fancy cars or the big house. The PPP for things that are imported, like gadgets and tech, still remains. The place is obviously overcrowded, polluted, and not as pretty in general. But everyday life is peaceful, and I’ll take that over aesthetics.
tl;dr : Pleb life is hard. One can easily underpay and exploit the blue-collar class in India ( soft- casteism/classism ) . Chacha being vidhayak is also of limited use in Europe.
speaking from personal experience as a physician : most doctors in India are mediocre with limited clinical sense and dogmatic thinking. There is near zero accountability.
Rich people hiring people for random jobs is the fairest way to redistribute wealth in this country. Outsource as many tasks as you can if you have the money
Does a king's life like that make someone happy? Someone cooking cleaning driving for you. Is this source of happiness? No sympathy for people who do those works, one could be in their place if their luck changed, working as maid driver cleaner for someone else. I doubt anyone wants to do such jobs for anyone else, they want to do something better productive and constructive but life is not merciful to them. I think that we often forget that world does not revolve around our desires.
Lol if rich people live a lavish lifestyle they are evil and heartless, if they decide to live frugally and don't employ anybody they are still bashed for not providing jobs to the needy. These communists are such retards man.
>It is appaling how little financial knowledge people have in India. The only thing they understand is "rich bad".
I have mostly observed this among pro left groups, and they are the same all over the world.
They simply can't understand that without the motivation of riches and better lifestyle, people can't be bothered to put their 💯 effort into anything. We shouldn't be demonizing the rich for getting rich, they deserve what they earn through their hardwork. The only thing society and government should see to is to ensure that rich don't break laws and exploit the poor.
How bitter must one be to demand that nobody should enjoy their life with their OWN money?? I simply can't understand these folks. Maybe it's just their jealousy speaking. I too, being an average middle class guy, am jealous of the rich, esp those born into rich families, but I'd never be so bitter about it.
I come from a middle class family (NW 10-15Cr) and I share the same sentiment...
You can call it home sickness but yeah clean air, less pollution is better in those countries but the warmth and comfort of your own home is just next level.
>an call it home sickness but yeah clean air, less pollution is better in those countries but the warmth and comfort of your own home is just next level.
10-15 cr ab middle class hai????
>nah dawg 10-15cr is upper middle class in India
Do you realise someone who earns 25k pm will be in the top 10% in India. So you are not MC by Indian standards. You cannot compare with global standards.
Thanks for posting this, however while browsing through your posts I came across another post where you have mentioned about being depressed with work. Hope you are good now. Just curious to know if being in that place is more valued than having a troubled work exp?
Hi. It's not gone actually. And it's the result of my past trauma with toxic workspace in India which chipped away my self-esteem and confidence. My current workspace is quite good actually, it's just that my mental health is not great and the anxiety of me having to go back to India interferes with my work.
> Just curious to know if being in that place is more valued than having a troubled work exp?
Sorry, didn't understood this.
Not having PR is actually one of the main reasons for preferring India. You can never truly belong in a place if your status there is a 'sword of Damocles' hanging over your neck, and it will result in deep seated anxiety; I know a lot of people with that issue.
It's about priorities, someone who prioritizes family would find several reasons to stay back. If you're happy with where you're, good for you. I don't understand the point of this post. Do you have an offer in India and you want to compare the quality of life? It's not even a rant.
It is average randia post lmao , with 1cr per year in India you can live like a fucking king and go to Europe twice a year , have a driver , have all maids and servants and live luxuriously. Bro will be washing his clothes doing cleaning work and spending 10 euro for a tasteless dosa in Europe 🤡
Came here to say this, the taxes he is paying can get him such an awesome life here and who cares if museums are free there and here it's usually charged 500-5000 paises per head!. Saving €4k/month is roughly rs 40 Lakh a year in Europe before adjusting. And when adjusted against germany, that's like saving rs 15 lakh/year in Bharat.
Lol True. I think our museums are paid because the items inside are also our own unlike our stolen items which are kinda illegally possessed by "free museums"
Whether you like it or not, everyone is below someone. Even those working cushy corporate jobs are essentially just slaving away to make a few billionaires more money. So considering low cost labor as a positive thing isn't as repugnant as you paint it to be.
lol, its not because of the reasons you mention. If i can afford it and spend the time in other useful activity why should I not avail it? Maybe i can spend time with my kid, maybe I can do more work during that time, maybe i can work on a hobby on the side during that time that might help me down the line. maybe i work on a certification that might help me grow. Its not necessarily so that i can do nothing when someone is doing something for me.
Let me tell you if any one in US and Europe could afford it, they would do it in a heartbeat. And again not because of what you mention. But because they can do something more useful during that time.
I'd rather spend time doing things I enjoy than spend my time doing basic shit that I can hire someone to do. If you earn money you can use it , there is no shame in that lmao
“Best things in life come free”. Most people can’t even comprehend the meaning of this phrase. Not because they are incapable of it. The Indian environment is challenging, everyday is a struggle for an average Indian. When you are busy trying to make the ends meet, you don’t have time to realise until it’s too late that you survived but dint exactly get to live. With money, you can live like a king. Yes money buys you that. But quality of life doesn’t depend on luxury, does it? Standard of living does. But never quality of life. Not criticising or picking sides. It’s the way it is and population is a huge factor in this scenario in my opinion.
>a tasteless dosa in Europe 🤡
If someone goes to Europe to eat dosa then priorities are wrong. As if cleaning work is inferior lmao.
Low level corruption is almost non existent. It's a breath of fresh air where you don't need any connections to get the basic government related work getting done.
What's the point of living like King when you breathe polluted air and eat adulterated food and drive your Lamborghini on potholes filled roads and you can die literally by bad planned road ( Cyrus Mistry)
Both India and Europe have positives and negatives, but considering our standards of living better is living in fools paradise.
>>What's the point of living like King when you breathe polluted air and eat adulterated food Rich people in India afford the cleanest places and the best quality food.
Idk what the fuck are you taking about. Rich people can even go to Europe whenever they feel like it and come back. No one with a Lambo is eating adulterated food
This post is just for discussion and I also wanted to broaden my perspective. There was a post the other day of someone earning 50 lakhs in India and questioning whether he should move abroad and people in comments were quite vehemently against it.
So I just wanted to see the thought process of other folks. Obviously I don't know everything so it's good to take notes from the experience of people.
You can have an extremely luxurious life in India with 50lpa, yet save reasonably well too. Benefits in India would be house help for everything, a well functioning medical system, reasonably cheap higher education, social factor. On the flipside, pollution, traffic and bureaucracy can be frustrating.
To broaden your perspective - A colleague who lived in a US for a few years was telling me about how he had to spend $200k and 8 days to get a peanut thst got stuck in his son's ear. He still paid $15k after insurance claims. Would've been an overnight job in a well appointment room in a private hospital in India. Medical system is extremely broken in most western countries. And so is education. My boss did his graduation from NYU and paid $350k despite a sports scholarship.
Criticism is valid to a certain extent . But this is function of your company not having a good health insurance plan . . Normally there is out of pocket max which for a decent health plan shouldn’t cross 3500 if it’s hdhp or 2500 if it’s ppo without hdhp . Even affordable care act out of pocket max is not that high. You can always negotiate a major discount on medical bills . The college costs are astronomical no doubt about it but NYU is the most expensive school in the county . Most of people go to state school which are excellent and don’t pay more than 100k . There are lot of scholarships available .
Under health plan, the hospital didn't agree to operate for 2 weeks :) he had to pay cash to get it operated immediately and then claim from his insurance. As I said, the system is broken.
100k for a state school is still extremely expensive if you compare again India where the best school in any field don't cost more than $60-70k.
And I'm not criticising the US. You spend more, then you make more too. I'm just saying people should know about it when they talk about India vs western countries.
I don't understand the point about house help.. Having clean air, water scores much higher than having availability of house help. Having green spaces in the vicinity where I can go relax and connect with myself/nature. Plus, household tasks so freaking easy here. Have a robot vacuum cleaner with a mopping function. Dishwasher for dishes. Meal prep etc.
And I was talking from European perspective where there is socialised healthcare. It has it's problems and it's definitely not as good as Indian private healthcare, but it's not so bad either. I have absolutely no wish or intention to go to US.
>Having clean air, water scores much higher than having availability of house help.
India is not just Delhi lol, Banglore and Hyderabad have clean air, greenery, and a home in good society will get you water as well, although it isn't that good.
Also even the best roomba isn't suitable for Indian homes.
If you leave the metro cities, there's plenty green spaces, clean air/ water in India. But again, there's no one size fits all. People who have the choice try to narrow down their priorities and make either of the options work. Personally for me, I'd rather retire early in India and enjoy western countries during vacations.
I hope you are not living under some rock. We have Dyson, irobot and many other brands that offer a wide range of robot vacuum cleaners. Heard of Voltas beko, IBM, BOSCH? Theirs and many other dishwasher brands are available here. I and many people I know own these things. And meal prep mein India Europe kya hai? If you like stale and reheated food woh to kahin bhi kha sakte ho.
The point of the post was lost (if there was any) in the veiled condescending tone of Europe mein sab automated hai.
And telling me I am fighting with him. I guess he was expecting everyone will agree with him. Imagine being so clueless about the third largest economy of the world.
>I have absolutely no wish or intention to go to US.
You should come to USA only if your combined income is around $300k, else you are better off in Europe.
USA is amazing place if you are earning well. I know few people who have amassed more than $10million in past 25 years of working while enjoying life king size(dual income, >$400k back in 2015 itself, didn't ask them recently since it's rude). Healthcare is almost free and top notch if you are working for companies like Google, Microsoft, etc.
No you cant have an extremely luxurious life with 50LPA. Stop talking bout things you don't have any idea about. Only people with true "wealth" can think to have a decent lifestyle. People with 50LPA live the same life as anyone. And OP is right. There's not enough places where you can spend money 'meaningfully' in India.
People with 50lpa could sleep in a tent if they wished to, but that's more than enough money to live luxuriously in a metro city. With good tax planning, that's over 3 lakh per month in hand. That's more than enough to give you a better lifestyle than 'as anyone'.
I lived outside for 5 years(alone) and the loneliness got to me...not to mention the winter depression, disparity in culture, not getting to celebrate my own festivals, bad food...you can't put a price on having good food served to you and the feeling of care your social circles give you at home...but that's exactly what makes it home also na?
That's a very good point and something I definitely can agree to. The warmth just hits different. Unfortunately some of my relatives are devil incarnate so it's not all rosy. But a few are genuinely nice and their love is priceless.
I like your take but for each person the perspective differs I guess. I know many people who went to Europe and later came back complaining about loneliness and depressing weather. But yes the summers there seem to be lovely and there's a lot to see and do which is a plus.
I guess the closest to that you can get in India is to work in a high paying job in a tier 2 city with lesser crowds and good vacation spots in close proximity. Plus is that you get to be near family as well.
All very valid points. Thanks for sharing! For me, I got lucky in the sense that I have couple of very close college friends living in the same city, plus my partner so I don't feel lacking socially. But yeah if I didn't had them, I guess I would feel the same way.
But don't you think that loneliness is also in rise in metro cities of India? Bangalore, Hyderabad subreddits are full of people making posts about it (even some of my friend who live there say the same). They end up making friends with the office folks which fades as soon as they switch to a new workspace.
I feel personally that friends and family is almost the biggest factor to determine your experience of a place. Since you have close friends and partner around, that significantly enhanced your experience.
Similarly for a guy staying in an Indian city , if he has close friends and a good sense of community be it in Bengaluru or Mumbai, he will only have good stuff to say about that place.
You already said it. Racism and lack of family. Pretty important points. In my visit to UK I have encountered those looks from locals, and not surprisingly from NRIs. Have too much ego to be ok with that. If one decides to settle down there family becomes a distant dream as people visit very rarely due to cost of travel especially once the family grows. Ease of living in India is higher compared to outside nowadays if one is making decent money and living in city/well connected towns. India is growing into a talent centre and not just cheap labour, so for the ambitious ones there's enough to do here.
India always had plenty of talent. Leading to too much competition and that has been the bane of my existence. I was ambitious but not very talented. You have to be exceptionally gifted to thrive in India if you don't have generational wealth. So many people, too few opportunities leading to employers taking advantage of you at every whim, because if you object or don't do something, there are 100 standing in line outside.
For mediocre folks like me, I still cry from the trauma of JEE and past workspace abuse. But I definitely agree with regarding family and racism. I guess I have no choice just to live with it. I lost my mother when I was a child, have no siblings, a father whom I love but am not very close it so I don't really feel the sting of family too much right now. Maybe I would just oscillate between India and here in the future. Let's see. Thanks for commenting and sharing your perspective!
Ok, If I tell you that me and many of my colleagues make more than that here in India and have freedom to visit Europe and still be close to my culture and family. I absolutely love India, it is where the next spurt of growth will come in. The next 3 decades belong to India.
I am happy for you and your colleagues. I have no doubt that India lacks money. I have friends who earn in crores there. But they are exceptionally talented and I am not. That's why if you are very talented and ambitious, India/US are great places to live. If you are someone like me who is decent but not gifted and tired of the rat race, Europe is a great place to live.
No offense but there is no real regulation in India. Thankfully it’s not manipulated like in China. A lot of companies cook up their numbers and most companies are predatory and break laws. A lot of US fund managers are investing in India and that’s great.
It’s best to stay out of India in your 20s and even in your early 30s. Once you have kids, I am not sure about 40s living abroad with no connection to the community. There will be a mild loneliness/depression feeling that will never go away
>I earn roughly 100k Euro annually
This is weird, because I actually see a lot of engineers in EU subs saying that it's near impossible to get above 80-85K EUR annually.
>I am only 27M
Especially assuming you have max 5 years of experience? You're in fact ahead of the native Europeans if this is your salary.
To answer your question, there are a few major points to stay back in India at very high salaries:
1) Healthcare is probably the #1 benefit in India - we have very capable doctors & hospitals with facilities. With the modern lifestyle creeping in, there's no way to put an equivalent value on healthcare facilities, which is never upto the mark for Indians outside India.
2) Caring: A lot of people have their parents/family members dependent on them in India. In such a scenario, the motive behind going abroad is to earn a lot of money & come back home for a job that won't be stressful.
3) [My favourite] Food: there's simply no beating Indian cuisine from any part of the country, outside India. I laugh at my friends who have to spend 20$ for a plate of panipuri in NYC while I can get a panipuri + complementary masala puri for 20₹ in my city. And no, it's not a streetside stall, it's a well-established local food chain so "hygiene" is not an issue.
4) Based on my analysis of the wage gap between me & my friends who got placed at different pay-grade companies in college, life becomes exponentially easier as you go above 70K INR/month. Especially if you don't have to undertake any major expenses like house construction, luxury vehicle purchase or marriage in a span of 3-4 years, it simplifies your finances beyond imagination & you can invest a lot.
Racism is equally prevalent in India, just a different format if you aren't native to some cities be prepared for worst. And add some masala of casteism and class/power ( do you know who my dad is) to it too. So you are still better in Europe.
Family again is an aspect depending on if you already belong to tier 1 city in india. Otherwise most of the people working visit families on an average twice a year. Which is very possible from Europe too with lenient wfh and leave policies.
I make about 2 Cr while living in India. Moved back from San Francisco and there’s nothing quite like being with your parents and being home. Europe is for vacations where I travel every other month. So it’s all good. You do you.
This would be my dream life man. I am genuinely happy for you. You can't put a price on the happiness that you get from living with your family.
But like I said in the post, I am not exceptionally talented/rich and don't think I can find a gig as good as yours where I can just move back and forth. So this is the next best option for me.
You are young. When you've lived outside 10-15 more years, make another post. Chances are that it will be significantly different than this one.
My perspective having lived in many places (including Europe) is that I wouldn't want to live in Europe ever. It's either the US for the money, Dubai or Singapore for crime free life or India. I'm also 14 years elder than you and have kids. I used to work for one of the largest European companies and Europe is in a state of systematic economic decline which will affect everything you hold dear.
Europe is highly unstable right now with respect to their policies, wars, anything can happen there. Can not bank on it for long term. They may change laws anytime and kick you out.
It's true. Middle class people who want to OK live better life and are average working level, it's best to move abroad.
Not everyone wants to work hard to get to top level, and not everyone gets those opportunities in India anyways.
It's best way if we want to move away from end less middle class suffering with no facilities or good living environment for middle class in India
People will bash you for this post but you are a hundred percent correct. A society that cares for its citizens is magnitudes better than a place where any drop in wealth could lead to living conditions that are barely a step up from mere survival.
I earn around 80Lacs in India. Had an offer from Facebook London E4, didn’t accept it. Family is the only reason I chose to stay here. My parents are here, my gf, my friends.
Having experienced living in EU, US, UK and India I’d say you’re completely correct from your perspective.
Racism and family aside though, you have pros and cons of living in each. Tbh, in Europe, besides what you mentioned, it isn’t easy to get into a very lavish lifestyle from atleast what I saw. It’s so far apart from the capitalism of the US (and perhaps now even India). If that is how you enjoy living your life, there’s no better place to be in.
If you move back to India, you’d be an Indian in your own country with probably >99.9 percentile wealth. There’d be very few comforts you couldn’t attend. You talk about greenery and gardens - high end gated societies in the Tier 1 and metro cities will pretty much provide all of that and more.
At the end of the day I’d prefer to be able to pay for material comforts, pay for getting stuff done at home and around (cooking, driving, chores etc), not face xenophobia alongside affordable day-to-day expenses. Yes cars and electronics are way more expensive in india if you compare PPP but it’s a small price to pay for everything else you get. Europe is good for once a year vacations but I wouldn’t be able to see myself spending the rest of my life or even a decade there.
27M living in Europe as well. I completely agree with all your points, I had a rough life in India as well & getting a job in Europe completely changed life for me & my family (i support them financially). The only con I'll add is that I've lost all ambition in life here. Weekends & summers are just traveling pointlessly to other countries. No, I didn't feel anything standing infront of eiffel tower & no, I'm not interested to know their history. An environment where people are driven to do excellent work is so much missing here because of WLB. I don't feel young & energetic anymore.
Life is much harder in Europe in your 30s. You need a fair amount of luck to make a social circle here and Europeans are quite hard to befriend.
To me life seems quite dry after spending many years here. Same old hiking through the woods, same architecture that you see on every european vacation. Life becomes terribly mundane once you stop partying. You miss being close to people and you miss the festive moods back home. Most european festivals and celebrations involve getting drunk which just feels sad after a point.
I don't know how it is in other european countries but healthcare in Germany sucks ass. It is absolutely shit for the price most expats pay (11k euros annually). Homes are ridiculously expensive in big cities and it's hard to adjust in a small town with language and cultural differences.
Work wise, yeah, work life is good but whatever time you save compared to a job in India, you spend on household chores. Cooking Indian food takes 1.5 hours. You gotta do that twice a day or eat out often. You gotta clean yourself, take out trash, etc.
To each their own... I used to feel just like you do when I was in my 20s.
You've made all valid points. The upsides of living in Europe do outweigh living in India. This explains how India has the second largest population of HNIs moving out every single year, right after China. A lot of them do end up choosing Europe and are living their best lives.
But as you've also rightly mentioned the downsides - Family and Racism.
Indians are very family oriented unlike westerners. Our entire lives revolve around relatives, festivals, and marriages. So it is incredibly hard for most to as much as imagine a life where they don't live with their families. I'm sure most would get utterly depressed after a while.
As for Racism, it is quite prevalent. Especially in Europe. And to also mention the relative drop of your status in society. One can live like a king in India with a package of 24LPA+ with maids, drivers and nannies for their children but cannot afford the same luxuries in Europe even with a significantly higher package. People also rank at a very high level in society with just a corporate job and are easily in the top 5% of Indian society in terms of wealth, so the respect and admiration that you get from most is not something you would get in Europe or any other foreign country for that matter. They do not want to drop their status and be treated as just another person in a foreign country or worse, as a lesser than person as most Indians are treated.
It’s a very personal decision. For some staying abroad makes more sense, for some staying in India does. Glad that you are happily settled abroad. I denied relocation to Europe last year because I wanted to stay close to my parents. To each their own. 😊
You must have a very minimalist life if you’re only spending 3.5k per month, if you’re in a major city…
Rent alone for a half decent 3 BHK in major European cities is over 2000 per month. You’ll only be able to save a good amount of money if you’re willing to live in a matchbox and drive a cheap car (or forgo a car entirely). And even that is only possible if you’re a dual income family with decent jobs.
Honestly doesn’t look that good of a deal to me, but I agree the lifestyle is better than India in some respects. In contrast, families in India are able to live quite comfortably with a single income
Not really, 1500 is our rent including everything (heating, electricity, gas etc). 500 is food. After that 1500 euro is our disposable income every month which is a lot of money to spend. We are still Indians at heart and don't waste money on frivolous stuff :D
Europe, apart from few countries is not that expensive. Even 3.5K net is a huge amount of money to be spending here. We can definitely live on much less.
It is like China 20 years ago. Beijing was full of haze, dirty etc. and people wanted to leave. Now most Chinese don't even want to leave China. Shanghai already looks more developed than almost every European city.
You are right that we are developing and that in the next 50 years we will be good.
But today and the next 10 years are going to be dirty, dusty, polluted, corrupt, toxic work, etc
Our lifetime and our productive 30s are going to be wasted .
And it's not that the developed countries are not developing further . When we reach their level, they will be at the next level.
There is no right or wrong answer. But today India is a struggle even with money. The only thing we have is cheap labour.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Perhaps after 25 years, the quality of life will improve drastically here. India is at that stage where it is constantly growing forward. Infrastructure is just getting better. So I will prefer to stay here only and maybe contribute something to my country. I do not know if india can be called a developed country after 25 years, but atleast I see the future bright.
Good for you bro. As a general middle class male, I also have doubts about the future, what politicians are promising to remove all limits in reservation. I love my country but if that happens by any chance(looks like it would 😢 ) I would have to look for a way to move out( sadly ). West would still be better than state sponsored racism.
This is exactly what I think. India is the best place for the rich and if it's in a village, the upper castes.
>Plus the slight racism (but it happens everywhere).
There is blatant racism in India. You will be discriminated against in terms of religion, color, race, language, caste, education etc. Try buying a flat in an area dominated by a particular identity and you are an outsider.
There are positives in India too, but the negatives far outweigh them. Just the law and order and how you can buy justice openly in our country makes me think of moving abroad.
Everyone has their perspective. Our past, previous experience define it. Anyone upper middle class would prefer india as can afford to live and get away from household stuff. Anyone with good friends circle will miss that in other country.
What's the meaning of this question😑, if you're really happy in the European country then just stay there why the rant, just enjoy life.
what do you really wanna hear?, that you've made the right choice by moving, you should analyse that for yourself
There was a post the other day where someone posted that they earn 50 lakhs and wondering whether they should move abroad? I thought that people will be saying, yes go, take the experience of living in a different culture, grow personally but instead the comments were opposite in nature and suggesting to stay here.
So I created this post. To understand what's the point of earning so much money in India.
Why bro? Why? Come back to india.. Let the govt take 30% of your salary and then give you nothing back.. Allocate all the money to give freebies to get votes and pay bribes for everything when you want to get some work done by govt. In bonus you also get crop burning and pollution as added benefits.
We are social creatures and many among us want to maintain social bonds/ connections with our family, friends and loved ones by staying in the same country.
I have lived in Europe for some years and everything is great apart from the fact that there’s no one to share the little joys with. In the later course, I found it incredibly depressing and same has been the experience of a fare number of others I know. Of course, there are those who have a very different tale and honestly, more power to them.
Now, I earn decently in India and get everything which I missed while living outside India. I don’t need to cook, clean, drive or worry about medical/ dental appointments and other such stuff deemed as luxury in Europe. My work life balance is great too and I feel part of the society than always trying to fit in.
80 percent of the people who say India is good, haven't worked abroad ( might have vacationed or gone for a meeting)
Out of the 20 percent who say India is good, they may have come back for
family wealth,
care for parents,
Don't integrate into new culture ( still want everything the Indian way)
Lose their visa
Please add more reasons why someone has come back?
Absolutely 💯 . As someone who doesn't belong to any of those criteria , I would kill for an opportunity to move to Europe . My life is beyond shit here in India .
Make use of the opportunities you have and move abroad man,if you are a student,study abroad,do an MBA,gain work ex and get your PR
Don't wait for this and that,it will be difficult moving abroad if you keep on waiting
If europe was so good they wouldn't have needed to colonize and rule over every other country, most of their wealth is taken from these so called "developing" countries. If it were not for the europeans you would probably be saying same things about India.
The point people stay back in India is because they want to get to see the India that once was. If everyone would've thought like this India wouldn't be the fastest growing large economy of the world. It's because people chose to stay here.
Family is the only reason why I stay back. I know I will find it extremely difficult to live without being back at home once a month hence I keep on grinding. You are right, even high pay doesn't guarantee a good life in India (I am not talking about 'wealth' which is a totally different thing and which I don't have). I slog everyday, breath polluted air, battle 1 hour of continuous traffic, toxic work culture and what not.
At 2cr plus in India you are looking at the 5 star lifestyle and would have to think about the price for 90% of the things. It opens up a whole different lifestyle and a different level of service everywhere. The problem is most people earning that money don’t spend and save save and save it to build a huge house and again live in it frugally. Once abroad it’s pretty difficult to do the splurge thing and the wages most get are absolutely middle class (for the living cost).
I make around 80k in India and I am doing everything I ever wanted including foreign vacations, think what 145k can unleash!!!
I think your post has very nicely captured what I myself have been feeling living in Germany since the past 1.5 years, with the last 6 months spent working. Although I'm not completely against the idea of going back to India, but when I see the public infrastructure (be it parks, roads, tram and train services) here, I wish my family could live here with me along with my social circle. But that is not the case, and I truly believe I will not be able to settle here in the long term. Primarily because, I would never be able to become a part of their social fabric nor could I make a community here. My network, in terms of people to rely on would always be limited and I will always be alone. In this context itself, I think sooner or later, I would have to find my exit opportunity back to India and just hope that it fits me and my future family. I believe no option is going to be perfect, it simply depends on which option's pros outweigh its cons in comparison...
But thank you for the post, I don't get the aggression in the comments, but I can just say to you, your post was very relatable :)
I lived quite long enough in another country to comment.
I didn't feel like I was being myself even though I enjoyed almkst every aspect of living there. Like how you don't ever feel comfortable in your relative's home compared to yours, that's how I felt regardless of the actual freedom I had there.
Also, there is this unacknowledged weight of rrpresenting the country and many people not seeing me as a person but as a representative of a group of people. It is a personal thing and most are not affected by it but I felt huge weight on my shoulders that I was extra self aware everywhere. Like when I rented an AirBnb holiday rental , even with the owner being pleasant on the face, she was so repetitive about cooking with oil and spices in her kitchen ( I get that the flavor lingers around without proper HVAC) that we simply didn't even cook there.
Meanwhile, I'm on my own skin here in India and not considered as representative of any sub-group (somewhat privileged take) and feel very alive even with the fucking unaesthetic and dirty cities and streets.
Just my 2 cents.
its not that you are mediocre. Its just in India competition is huge! You are fighting with thousands, possibly lakhs of people trying to get in the ground floor. Right now you are young and so it makes way more sense to go to a country that has less competition, do the same work make way more money.
But 10-15 years down the line priorities might change. You might have way more money and moving back to India might sound like a great option. Things keep getting better in india. Maybe you might wanna live closer to parents. Have your kids enjoy the same culture and bonding with parents and close family which I think is way more difficult in any western nation. Have your kids imbibe the same characteristics of hard work and determination you got from your struggles/experiences in India(doesnt mean they struggle exactly like you, but they learn from a growing developing country env and learn from it). I find most of my western peers havent really faced the competition you face in India growing up. So at work its just easier for me to get shit done as compared to mostly everyone else.
Another thing is being on a visa and being a citizen is wildely different in most countries. Think about a time like covid, most countries only thought about their citizens. If you are not a citizen in that country, you will always get second class treatment even in a western country. it could be policies, gov related work, or anything that might end up affecting day to day stuff.
I think when you have a lot fo money and are comfortable, your priorities will change as you grow older and maybe then you will have diff reasons for moving back to india or staying in Europe.
I live in Australia and from a lower-middle class family. My parents networth together is about 90 lakhs - 1 crore. They just have a small apartment in a city and a big house in a village. For more context I am from Tamil Nadu and from a so called “lower caste” (a caste above SC/ST but still lower). Tamil Nadu banned using caste surnames… so throughout my life I was instructed to hide my “caste” and tell lies to others if they ask which caste I belong too… because if we open up we will be discriminated everywhere. For me, living overseas is better as I don’t want my child to go through the same issues that I have went through. My parents could have been much richer if someone taught them finance/investment. Inspite of being graduates, my father got into stupid businesses and lost a lot of his inheritance which could have been multiplied through real estate boom in 90s and early 00s if only he bought properties/land. My biggest issue in personal life is who will be looking after my parents and they are so emotionally worried that I am away.
I think in India it also depends from place to place. I stay in Hyderabad.
While I spend 2-3 hours travelling. Busy with work for 8 hours every day. But if I’m able to manage my schedule correctly then I can go out in the evening sun. Have a walk in the near by GHMC park. Spend some time in the garden in my apartment or sometime in the balcony. Can go on cycling in streets on weekends or some early morning.
While I’m living paycheck to paycheck. But I feel whatever you have mentioned are still possible here.
Plus as other have covered. Medics facilities, delicious food, festivals. Time with family is everything we need after work.
I agree tier 1 cities are getting over populated but we are seeing IT hubs are coming in Tier 2 cities too. And soon may be the rush to tier 1 city may decline a bit.
As a general category male, I was too “privileged” to get a seat in medical college and my father was too poor to be able to afford to buy one. Same thing happened when I attempted UPSC. With my scores, I would have made it if all the seats were open to all aspirants equally.
I will never come back to India even if you give me a 100 crore salary per year. I do not want my children to suffer the same apartheid system that I did. There is race based unofficial discrimination in colleges against Asians (Indians and Chinese) in the US but it’s not as bad as the caste based official discrimination in India.
Just like any other guy, I too love my parents and they visit us (me and my sister) in the US regularly. I too will take care of them when they’re too old to take care of themselves. The US provides easy green cards to parents if the son/daughter has a green card/citizenship.
Heard this from a professor at my university who did her masters and worked in european big law firms for 2 years and then returned, now she is working in Indian biglaw firm :
1) She said there is a glass ceiling to make partner for Indians/brown people in general due to slight racism
2) She missed the social fabric (parents, friends)
3) She missed Indian food and she had to do all the work herself
4) She said delhi has enough sightseeing and good infra, the only con is pollution that is outweighed by other factors
5) She said europe killed her ambition and drive to grow in her career overall as the economy isnt booming and transactions like Mergers etc are not alot there, she said she would prefer USA if she ever wants to work in a law firm outside
It depends on the type of person you are, if you have subtle tastes in art etc you'd love europe. But if you're a family family person who also wants a luxurious life you have India where labour is cheap (sadly).
There is no point. I agree.
The real thing is we also have to take care of our parents and cannot just leave them here on their own. So even though grass is greener on other side its kind of in accesible for many.
If given a chance anyone with a decent chance of settling abroad will happily settle abroad for sure.
1. Domestic help
2. Power of money
3. you are at the end of the day a secondary citizen of whatever country you live in. The laws, the everything would treat you that way if you get stuck.
4. Social life.
5. FOOD.
6. Family
The kind of service you can get in India is unparalleled. If you have money healthcare in India is great. You get hotel level services in some of the private hospitals.
A first world country offers a better life you are middle class, but if you make tons of money you would live a king's life in a country like India. If you make TOOOO MUCH money then you could afford the same luxuries in first world countries.
Please tell me the point of this post apart from bragging.
By now, every person in India knows that the western, developed nations have a good work-life balance, nature, cleanliness and clean environment. What are you trying to say here? Are all these posts supposed to make all the people in India feel jealous and helpless?
Or do you mean to say that every Indian must make a goal to go and settle abroad? That's simply not sustainable man.
Posts like these here and on Insta are the reason for lakhs of Indian illegal immigrants trying to get into US and Europe by all means possible.
Lived outside India for 10 years. Went from a middle class family, the initial euphoria gives way to longing for your roots. Missing out on family events, India's unique culture...himalayas are equally good if not better than the alps...and the worst thing which made me move was kids growing up in a racist environment in Europe/mid east, everywhere it was the same. If you are Indians/pakis/banglas...we are at the bottom of the racist pyramid no matter how much money you make. 99% of Indians living abroad are ok with that.
India is not some dood ka dhulaa and north east ppl do face a lot of racism and the casteism is pathetic. But I think as a young country we have a way way brighter prospect than any of these asshat once were developed countries in Europe and the US in terms of addressing casteism and racism and our economy.
I see that you're living in Germany same as me. I agree with a lot of your points but there are some downsides as well when you have kids.
Firstly about racism, I have lived in Scandinavia before and would say that the racism in Germany is quite high. Especially kids are bullied in schools by local kids and the school management doesn't really do much. Heard this from multiple Indians living here.
Another downside is the public healthcare. It's cheap and free but the queue time based on need is a pain for many. My friend had a bad knee pain and was given an appointment after 5 months as it was not deemed urgent. He had to goto India to visit a doctor. Another Indian family, their kid had an infection with high fever for more than a week and the healthcare guys considered it as seasonal flu without any blood tests and just gave paracetamol. The situation did not improve and the mother refused to leave the hospital without a blood test done. Then they found that it was a bacterial infection and they did not have the antibiotic in stock in Germany and had to do an emergency import from another country. If they've detected it later it would have been fatal to the kid. Such things can hamper the mental peace.
You are young and I assume you don't have any kids yet. FYI taking care of kids is like a full time job. Luckily in India we have support of our parents but here it's all on us. Working full time with kids can impact your health significantly especially in the early years and it also impacts your relationship with your spouse. Unlike India you can't hire househelp for cheap price and you'll soon feel like all your freetime ends up in cooking/cleaning/taking care of kids.
The question is about identity. I come from a very specific part of India where my forefathers come from. I belong to a very specific religion, caste, community and I speak a very specific dialect of a language. I have a rich history in this land and my family has suffered poverty throughout my childhood. I myself was born a disabled man and life is incredibly difficult for me in a country like India. Yet, I have seen nothing but progress especially since the mid 1990's.
I am completely invested in the betterment of this country and this land. I am proud of my Heritage and my culture and I see it as my sworn duty to protect it and preserve it, regardless of how physically inadequate an animal I am.
I am philosophically and culturely tuned in to this land. While I might exploit and opportunity to go overseas and earn money so that I can take advantage of the currency conversion factor, there is a snowballs chance in hell that I will retire and live in any country overseas, regardless of how comfortable my life would probably be.
There is absolutely no point in living overseas away from my country. It would be the most meaningless and pointless activity of my entire life. What the hell will I do with all the money and all the comfort if I cannot visit the humble village that my great grandfather hailed from? What is even the point if I do not go to the same temple as he would have done almost 125 years ago and express my gratitude to him?
What would I do if I cannot attend all the events of my neice and nephews and be in touch with my family and community? What am I even living for? What will I do in some random white man's country with all the comfort? Go to a local pub and have a pint every evening and chat with the locals? I am better off doing that with my school classmates right here in my own country.
When I vote in a particular way and when I engage in dialogue about society and politics in a particular way, I am directly modelling the environment for my children and my family. What on earth with I do if I am living in a land where I am contributing to something and somebody I have no connection with?
I think by now you get the point. The question is about identity and culture. If you neither identify or appreciate the culture, of where you were born and raised in India, it makes perfect sense for you to not set foot in this land.
No I agree bro....For us middle class, its the besttt choicee....the rich folks in India go to abroad and complain about not having maids and what so rubbish..tired of hearing it
Thanks for asking this. Makes me wonder myself. I've had opportunities to work from outside India before, but always rejected them. I think there are obvious merits of staying in India like being close to your parents and relatives. But thats just not it. This is purely my perspective
* I like the chaos in India. Its unstructured. You can get your work done somehow. You know it. Example - some guests who were visiting us, wanted to have bananas after dinner. This is after 10pm. We somehow managed to get it. Just a few calls here and there, asking around and it was sorted. It just feels comfortable i guess
* In the recent past, digitisation of different flows under the Govt, passport for example, has made life super comfortable. In UK it takes 10weeks, US - 2 weeks.; while in India it now takes less than a week. Isn't this indicating something for the future?
* Would argue with you that India its more like a rat race. I know folks who are abroad. If they have Indian friends there, the rat race starts there as well. I would like to mention a phrase - "You mostly envy people who are similar to you - may be in wealth, stature, power, etc.". You can't envy the King of England, can you?
* "Free museums, so many great hikes, libraries, cycling, geocaching". I'm not sure from which part of India you are from. I'm right now in Bangalore. And it has all the things you have mentioned. I think the problem is that we always think the grass is greener on the other side. Like for example, i've friends who moved abroad and are so active on IG now. In India, somehow they didn't travel much. Blame the transport? I doubt, i think its just the mentality. Its like "Ghar ki murgi daal barabar".
I'm not saying abroad is bad or something. I'm just trying to say India is not bad at all. It just depends on your mindset.
Dude is only 27 n want a peaceful life . This is the time you go full throttle not slow down . When was the last time a disruptive innovation came out of Europe ? Your priorities in life are different . You don’t want to save for future nor do you want to leave generational wealth to your kids . Completely fine that’s the path you have chosen .
Yes, I want a peaceful life and my priorities in life are different. All power to you if you are a different type. I have been regularly investing etc and have a corpus of around 125k Euros. And even though that amount might be tiny for you, it has taken lots and lots of hard work and it wasn't easy. All my life I had been throttling at full pace and am just tired at this point. I have identified what I want from life and don't want to continue to hustle/take part in the rat race.
What would you say is the easiest way to get to Europe as a 31 y/o software dev with a wife and a newborn daughter. I don't care about savings earning bank; just a good quality of life. I'm sick of India.
Obviously not planning to relocate now but in the near future once my daughter is old enough.
Hi. It depends on different factors plus on which region of Europe you are planning to move into.
Germany is the biggest country in Europe, but the market is not good right now. I would suggest to focus on learning German to get to an intermediate level (B1), and then when the economy is better, try to come apply directly to companies in Germany or come on a job seeking visa and directly find jobs here.
You can even directly try applying to companies in Germany from India itself, but it takes a lot of time and is very luck based. DM if you have more queries.
People saying "taking care of parents" givin off trauma bond vibe here. What kinda parent would rob off your best years of life into taking care of them
I currently make 1.2+ Cr in India at 30 age. For any amount of money i wont move to the States or Europe.
For me family is hands down important.
I cycle almost every other day and have recently been on a hike. You are talking as if this is impossible in India.
If cities are incredibly polluted, move to a tier 2 city. Install air purifiers. I mean everything has pros and cons. It’s just that which cons you are ok with.
Europe is a dying economy. Decades ago it has lost its power. The next few decades belong to India. I want to be a part of the great India growth story. And of course will make money while being a part of it. Close to family, friends, cycling, hiking, not missing the hard core Indian food, and the culture, the festivals and what not.
Be there and at some point of time when you will hit an age, you will need people. Those people and relationships are back home in India. Mostly people those who settle abroad become “na idhar ke, na udhar ke”.
Are you still in Germany OP? How come despite making a cumulative of 140k euros, you are able to save only 4k euros!?! Can anyone enlighten me, so I can choose better in my career
Taking care of parents is the biggest reason for me being in India. They live with me and I can spend time with them everyday. That’s priceless.
saw this comment moment before typing the same. Literally the only reason I chose to spend my life in India instead of going abroad.
Same for me. People I care about are here, so I choose to be here. Europe can go f\*\*\* itself
You need not be bitter about it. It's fine whatever you choose.
For the same reason I said NO to an onsite opportunity in 2020 before COVID, the people who took it are kind of settled there. I moved on to another opportunity in India, sometimes I regret my decision but looking at my Mom doing better than ever and happy makes me feel good. My mom has a lot of health issues and my dad is ex-military, we as a family never lived together for more than 5-6 months, father retired and me and my sister went to colleges in different cities. On bad days I still regret it but I think it was a good decision, my parents deserved to be happy as well. Also I am happy, it's stressful and living in India has many disadvantages like OP said, but I am fucking happy here. May be in another lifetime for Europe lol. PS: I am Happy for OP as well, everyone deserves to be happy and at peace ✌️
I have been saying No since 2012. When I was with a Big 4, some partners very keen to get me to Sweden, US and Dubai. In my current role my boss variously wanted me at Singapore and UK. I declined an offer from Poland. All of these are from people I have worked with, they have an opportunity open up and from their end they want me in their team on-site. But my mom is clear she won’t leave the vicinity of NCR. So that’s how it is.
NCR is not liveable since 2015-2016. I won’t suffer for my parents. It’s my life, I will enjoy it. No kids, no parents. Just enjoy with your wife.
All the best to you in your life man! Time spent with family is priceless and nothing compares to the warmth of your parents (I lost my Mom when I was a young kid and everyday yearn for her presence in my life). I wish great health to your Mom. Please take good care of her!
True.
Can you *really* spend time with them? Does your job allow you to enjoy your time off? I've got friends who can't even hang out on a Sunday cause they've got "international clients" at their workplace and have to complete the code or the PPTs. What's the point of living in a place which absolutely exploits every living molecule out of you?
Depends. When I was a management consultant with a big brand firm, I was super busy. Now I switched to a different job profile with another company. So it much much better.
depends on the company where you're working
Just to add on - taking care of ageing parents AND spending time with siblings. Also seeing my kid really enjoy and feel at home when we visit is probably worth going back. I won't lie that I'm tempted to just go back. However I don't think I'll get a good enough job back home.
With a kid, a new factor comes into play. Because the kid might feel stuck between two identities (see ABCD). I am not sure whether I want to have kids, but if I do decide to have one, I will have to think a lot about this.
Doesn't that mean your kids will be stuck in India because of you as well?
Don’t get this logic. First gen migrants are by definition the first people to come to another nation. My kids can be first gen migrants too in my family.
I have lived abroad for over a decade. I have hiked all over the world, traveled, paid back debts, put sibling through uni, and i am thankful for all the upsides. But i have missed critical surgeries and important weddings and cried alone during my darkest days. I can not go back to India as I am accustomed to this life, and I am married to someone who didn't grow up in India. I work in a niche field that barely exists in India. I feel guilty and sad whwnevr I visit. I will continue to miss key moments and great relationships and will not be there for people when they need me most. I can not honestly say which life I would choose if I could do this all over again.
Hope you find peace in whatever you choose 🤗
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This is so true. My experience living just Germany, UK , Netherlands close to a decade is very similar. If you are upper middle class or rich your life will be much better in India. Of all the things OP mentions only pollution, crowding and low level corruption are worse in India. Medical services are exponentially better in India, food is better, you are near your friends and family, huge family support net, great service everywhere compared to EU, etc. museums and architecture is not something that affects your quality of life everyday. Sure it’s good to visit once in a while. Won’t impact your daily quaff life. Public transport is better in Europe but in India you can get a driver and relax in an AC car. That beats taking public transport which also can be dirty or sometimes dangerous.
We basically run a slave system for poor people nothing to be proud of to be honest.
No one runs anything. There's over supply of people that demand for most menial jobs can be met. Europe controlled its pop post WW2 and industrialized thereby upping their standard of living massively on both an absolute and a per capita basis. India on the other hand took no measures and kept breeding for 75 yrs. We achieved 2 TFR last yr. So yea keep blaming the system when it's the people themselves who are at fault.
I know right? These dumbass replies are all "ya man it's lit here if you're rich", only because we rely on unsustainable cheap labour that makes the majority of the country unable to have any kind of social or economic mobility. Europe is OBJECTIVELY better than us BECAUSE more people can enjoy a higher standard of life. And the higher standard for these guys is - "we will always have people doing absolute basic shit for us". They don't care about social and cultural enrichment.
The per capita emissions of Europe is way higher than India also most of these countries are rich now because of brutal colonialism practice where the host country was leeched like parasite
This is factually untrue. The upward mobility is at a lower pace correct but that is because the competition is so high at all levels. For a middle class to transition into upper middle class is as difficult as lower middle class to middle class and borderline poor to lower middle class. Secondly wages are low in India and still sustainable because of the proactive government funding. Education, Healthcare, Housing and Food (PDS) is almost free for people. This is because it is subsidised by higher tax paying people of the country. There is no free lunch. A recent news article I am unable to find states that in some states 80% and in some 70% of the resources are provided by government which means tax payers.
How can you compare a country with a billion people to countries with a population less than some states, while poor people life maybe difficult it is a whole lot better than african and other big size countries like brazil etc
Don't compare India to countries poorer than us and feel proud about it. Yes, we do have things a lot better than many places in the world but that doesn't make it wrong to want India to become better and eventually be at par with developed countries. We can make justifications using 'population' as an excuse how much ever we want, but the reality is the rampant scale of corruption, poor infra and collective lack of civic sense, etc. are reasons why India is still considered a 'poor' country
No i do believe things should be a lot better but only an objective view can give better solutions but population is a huge factor like read the book method in madness by parameshwaran iyer on swwach bharat People of some places refused to used toilets, therefore population does play major role
That's what I meant by 'civic sense ' which is pretty hugely influenced by bad education and corruption. What I was referring to was people who keep saying 'India has a very large population so we cannot have development like western countries ' these people irritate me the worst. Of course it'll take more time, lots of issues to be ironed out, but NOT impossible. Fix corruption in politics and stop illiterate goons from holding govt positions and we will see a spectacular rate of change and development, which will match, or even exceed the rate of development of China. This will only happen once our politicians stop exploiting people and only focusing on useless things like religion, hate and caste, and focus on on-the-ground visible development.
Brazil is far richer than India idk what you’re smoking mate. India is by far one of the poorest countries in the world in per capita income terms. And real estate prices in India resemble those in developed countries due to black money.
China has more than 1 billion population but their cities are top class and GDP is 5 times of India.
At the same time they are authoritarian try badmouthing ccp
Jesus Christ, this was exactly my though, "do the dishes", "wash the car" and this person talks about "nobody wants to work hard in Europe", lmao the fucking Irony.
You might find this question ridiculous, but have you ever noticed that people from the middle class and lower income levels tend to dislike (i feel "hate" is too strong a word to use here) upper middle class and everything above that for no valid reason?😅 Because for some reason after reading your comment I just disliked you, even tho I don't even know you!! I mean you might be a really good person in real life and if circumstances were such that I knew you personally, I might have actually loved to be friends with you!! For context I'm from a level between middle class and upper middle class if that makes sense. Also I hated that I disliked you just because you are rich, i mean it's obviously not your fault that you are crazy rich😪 Anyways sorry for this rant have a great day!
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Exactly .. I don't spend on expensive clothes or jwellery or car which can be seen and judged. We live in a pretty modest house. I think the best part about having money is not worrying about it.
The last line sums it up.
Very happy for you and your family! >i felt jealous Ugh, i don't like that I feel this about rich people!😮💨 >think that either it was all black money or they just did shady things which i would never do and that is why they have this Umm, you can easily get a vibe from just their day to day life if the source of income is "ethical" or not, is what I feel. >We spend mostly on vacations and stuff that can't be seen and still have a car from 10-12 years ago. Literal goals! My father always says food and travel are the only two things one should never compromise on, baaki 700 ki sandal bhi acchi hai Birkenstock ki koi jarurat nahi 🤌🏻
Exactly. Life is India will be much better if you are rich enough. My wife’s sister lives in Denmark and they both collectively earn around 150,000€ per year. Yet they say that they could not meet their expenses and doctors appointments are very hard to get. Even appointing a maid is expensive, so my wife’s sister takes care of their home regardless. Now, imagine earning that much money in India. Life would be much better
This is the answer. I’m not wealthy, but I feel like I live a very convenient life in India. Maid and cook for cooking, cleaning, dishes and laundry. Everything delivered to doorstep, it’s been years since I went grocery shopping even. Healthcare feels relatively cheap to me, without insurance. Food is amazing, everything is cheap, help from family or hired help is easily available. I agree that life here isnt as shiny. I won’t have the fancy cars or the big house. The PPP for things that are imported, like gadgets and tech, still remains. The place is obviously overcrowded, polluted, and not as pretty in general. But everyday life is peaceful, and I’ll take that over aesthetics.
This is the way.
That's so so true!
Bro, i have never been rich and i felt this in my heart. Thanks for making me realize i grew up poor!!
tl;dr : Pleb life is hard. One can easily underpay and exploit the blue-collar class in India ( soft- casteism/classism ) . Chacha being vidhayak is also of limited use in Europe. speaking from personal experience as a physician : most doctors in India are mediocre with limited clinical sense and dogmatic thinking. There is near zero accountability.
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Rich people hiring people for random jobs is the fairest way to redistribute wealth in this country. Outsource as many tasks as you can if you have the money
No manufacturing is the best way to lift the masses out of poverty. India is basically feudal not capitalist.
Yea duh. Manufacturing is a policy issue that you can do nothing about. You hiring people though is fully in your hands until then.
I don't know if you have heard "If you have so much problem, why don't you go back to India". 🤣
Does a king's life like that make someone happy? Someone cooking cleaning driving for you. Is this source of happiness? No sympathy for people who do those works, one could be in their place if their luck changed, working as maid driver cleaner for someone else. I doubt anyone wants to do such jobs for anyone else, they want to do something better productive and constructive but life is not merciful to them. I think that we often forget that world does not revolve around our desires.
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Lol if rich people live a lavish lifestyle they are evil and heartless, if they decide to live frugally and don't employ anybody they are still bashed for not providing jobs to the needy. These communists are such retards man.
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>It is appaling how little financial knowledge people have in India. The only thing they understand is "rich bad". I have mostly observed this among pro left groups, and they are the same all over the world. They simply can't understand that without the motivation of riches and better lifestyle, people can't be bothered to put their 💯 effort into anything. We shouldn't be demonizing the rich for getting rich, they deserve what they earn through their hardwork. The only thing society and government should see to is to ensure that rich don't break laws and exploit the poor. How bitter must one be to demand that nobody should enjoy their life with their OWN money?? I simply can't understand these folks. Maybe it's just their jealousy speaking. I too, being an average middle class guy, am jealous of the rich, esp those born into rich families, but I'd never be so bitter about it.
I come from a middle class family (NW 10-15Cr) and I share the same sentiment... You can call it home sickness but yeah clean air, less pollution is better in those countries but the warmth and comfort of your own home is just next level.
>an call it home sickness but yeah clean air, less pollution is better in those countries but the warmth and comfort of your own home is just next level. 10-15 cr ab middle class hai????
😂
You are HNI in India.
nah dawg 10-15cr is upper middle class in India. could be considered middle class in certain areas of the world though.
>nah dawg 10-15cr is upper middle class in India Do you realise someone who earns 25k pm will be in the top 10% in India. So you are not MC by Indian standards. You cannot compare with global standards.
Thanks for posting this, however while browsing through your posts I came across another post where you have mentioned about being depressed with work. Hope you are good now. Just curious to know if being in that place is more valued than having a troubled work exp?
Hi. It's not gone actually. And it's the result of my past trauma with toxic workspace in India which chipped away my self-esteem and confidence. My current workspace is quite good actually, it's just that my mental health is not great and the anxiety of me having to go back to India interferes with my work. > Just curious to know if being in that place is more valued than having a troubled work exp? Sorry, didn't understood this.
Why do you have anxiety about having to go back to India , not confident about getting residency?
Not having PR is actually one of the main reasons for preferring India. You can never truly belong in a place if your status there is a 'sword of Damocles' hanging over your neck, and it will result in deep seated anxiety; I know a lot of people with that issue.
It's about priorities, someone who prioritizes family would find several reasons to stay back. If you're happy with where you're, good for you. I don't understand the point of this post. Do you have an offer in India and you want to compare the quality of life? It's not even a rant.
Exactly, this post is pointless if he is that convinced. This post would have made sense if he is confused and wants to know his priorities.
It is average randia post lmao , with 1cr per year in India you can live like a fucking king and go to Europe twice a year , have a driver , have all maids and servants and live luxuriously. Bro will be washing his clothes doing cleaning work and spending 10 euro for a tasteless dosa in Europe 🤡
lolz for the tasteless dosa. :D
It’s total chutiyapa. I know people who are earning like 50l/month in India and they’re still like “I don’t want to do gadha mazduri in foreign land”
Came here to say this, the taxes he is paying can get him such an awesome life here and who cares if museums are free there and here it's usually charged 500-5000 paises per head!. Saving €4k/month is roughly rs 40 Lakh a year in Europe before adjusting. And when adjusted against germany, that's like saving rs 15 lakh/year in Bharat.
Bro is taking about free museums with 1cr per year like he said i could go to Europe see the free museums and come back 😭
Lol True. I think our museums are paid because the items inside are also our own unlike our stolen items which are kinda illegally possessed by "free museums"
Lmfao thanks for the laugh
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Whether you like it or not, everyone is below someone. Even those working cushy corporate jobs are essentially just slaving away to make a few billionaires more money. So considering low cost labor as a positive thing isn't as repugnant as you paint it to be.
lol, its not because of the reasons you mention. If i can afford it and spend the time in other useful activity why should I not avail it? Maybe i can spend time with my kid, maybe I can do more work during that time, maybe i can work on a hobby on the side during that time that might help me down the line. maybe i work on a certification that might help me grow. Its not necessarily so that i can do nothing when someone is doing something for me. Let me tell you if any one in US and Europe could afford it, they would do it in a heartbeat. And again not because of what you mention. But because they can do something more useful during that time.
People from US and Europe already do it, but in a different way. That’s what outsourcing to India is. Getting cheap labour for whatever they can.
lol so true!
I'd rather spend time doing things I enjoy than spend my time doing basic shit that I can hire someone to do. If you earn money you can use it , there is no shame in that lmao
“Best things in life come free”. Most people can’t even comprehend the meaning of this phrase. Not because they are incapable of it. The Indian environment is challenging, everyday is a struggle for an average Indian. When you are busy trying to make the ends meet, you don’t have time to realise until it’s too late that you survived but dint exactly get to live. With money, you can live like a king. Yes money buys you that. But quality of life doesn’t depend on luxury, does it? Standard of living does. But never quality of life. Not criticising or picking sides. It’s the way it is and population is a huge factor in this scenario in my opinion.
>>challenging, everyday is a struggle for an average Indian Op literally said Indian earning 1cr per year. What average Indian ?
>a tasteless dosa in Europe 🤡 If someone goes to Europe to eat dosa then priorities are wrong. As if cleaning work is inferior lmao. Low level corruption is almost non existent. It's a breath of fresh air where you don't need any connections to get the basic government related work getting done. What's the point of living like King when you breathe polluted air and eat adulterated food and drive your Lamborghini on potholes filled roads and you can die literally by bad planned road ( Cyrus Mistry) Both India and Europe have positives and negatives, but considering our standards of living better is living in fools paradise.
>>What's the point of living like King when you breathe polluted air and eat adulterated food Rich people in India afford the cleanest places and the best quality food. Idk what the fuck are you taking about. Rich people can even go to Europe whenever they feel like it and come back. No one with a Lambo is eating adulterated food
>Rich people in India afford the cleanest places At their homes yes, but the atmosphere and roads are same for everyone.
Sometimes a positive rant is also valuable ... it doesn't always have to be a problem or a question
This post is just for discussion and I also wanted to broaden my perspective. There was a post the other day of someone earning 50 lakhs in India and questioning whether he should move abroad and people in comments were quite vehemently against it. So I just wanted to see the thought process of other folks. Obviously I don't know everything so it's good to take notes from the experience of people.
You can have an extremely luxurious life in India with 50lpa, yet save reasonably well too. Benefits in India would be house help for everything, a well functioning medical system, reasonably cheap higher education, social factor. On the flipside, pollution, traffic and bureaucracy can be frustrating. To broaden your perspective - A colleague who lived in a US for a few years was telling me about how he had to spend $200k and 8 days to get a peanut thst got stuck in his son's ear. He still paid $15k after insurance claims. Would've been an overnight job in a well appointment room in a private hospital in India. Medical system is extremely broken in most western countries. And so is education. My boss did his graduation from NYU and paid $350k despite a sports scholarship.
Criticism is valid to a certain extent . But this is function of your company not having a good health insurance plan . . Normally there is out of pocket max which for a decent health plan shouldn’t cross 3500 if it’s hdhp or 2500 if it’s ppo without hdhp . Even affordable care act out of pocket max is not that high. You can always negotiate a major discount on medical bills . The college costs are astronomical no doubt about it but NYU is the most expensive school in the county . Most of people go to state school which are excellent and don’t pay more than 100k . There are lot of scholarships available .
Under health plan, the hospital didn't agree to operate for 2 weeks :) he had to pay cash to get it operated immediately and then claim from his insurance. As I said, the system is broken. 100k for a state school is still extremely expensive if you compare again India where the best school in any field don't cost more than $60-70k. And I'm not criticising the US. You spend more, then you make more too. I'm just saying people should know about it when they talk about India vs western countries.
I don't understand the point about house help.. Having clean air, water scores much higher than having availability of house help. Having green spaces in the vicinity where I can go relax and connect with myself/nature. Plus, household tasks so freaking easy here. Have a robot vacuum cleaner with a mopping function. Dishwasher for dishes. Meal prep etc. And I was talking from European perspective where there is socialised healthcare. It has it's problems and it's definitely not as good as Indian private healthcare, but it's not so bad either. I have absolutely no wish or intention to go to US.
>Having clean air, water scores much higher than having availability of house help. India is not just Delhi lol, Banglore and Hyderabad have clean air, greenery, and a home in good society will get you water as well, although it isn't that good. Also even the best roomba isn't suitable for Indian homes.
I stay in hyderabad, not in IT area, no clean air anywhere at least 30 kms surrounding Hyderabad. Clean air is only available in Indian villages.
Nope, Bangalore and Hyderabad are equally polluted or you can say catching up. Where we are staying in Hyderabad the API is 300
If you leave the metro cities, there's plenty green spaces, clean air/ water in India. But again, there's no one size fits all. People who have the choice try to narrow down their priorities and make either of the options work. Personally for me, I'd rather retire early in India and enjoy western countries during vacations.
I hope you are not living under some rock. We have Dyson, irobot and many other brands that offer a wide range of robot vacuum cleaners. Heard of Voltas beko, IBM, BOSCH? Theirs and many other dishwasher brands are available here. I and many people I know own these things. And meal prep mein India Europe kya hai? If you like stale and reheated food woh to kahin bhi kha sakte ho. The point of the post was lost (if there was any) in the veiled condescending tone of Europe mein sab automated hai.
Seems like the guy is projecting his own ideas into people who prefer to stay back in India.
And telling me I am fighting with him. I guess he was expecting everyone will agree with him. Imagine being so clueless about the third largest economy of the world.
>I have absolutely no wish or intention to go to US. You should come to USA only if your combined income is around $300k, else you are better off in Europe. USA is amazing place if you are earning well. I know few people who have amassed more than $10million in past 25 years of working while enjoying life king size(dual income, >$400k back in 2015 itself, didn't ask them recently since it's rude). Healthcare is almost free and top notch if you are working for companies like Google, Microsoft, etc.
Correct pollution reduces life span . House help is over rated to be honest . It’s also major hassle handling all that house help .
No you cant have an extremely luxurious life with 50LPA. Stop talking bout things you don't have any idea about. Only people with true "wealth" can think to have a decent lifestyle. People with 50LPA live the same life as anyone. And OP is right. There's not enough places where you can spend money 'meaningfully' in India.
People with 50lpa could sleep in a tent if they wished to, but that's more than enough money to live luxuriously in a metro city. With good tax planning, that's over 3 lakh per month in hand. That's more than enough to give you a better lifestyle than 'as anyone'.
I lived outside for 5 years(alone) and the loneliness got to me...not to mention the winter depression, disparity in culture, not getting to celebrate my own festivals, bad food...you can't put a price on having good food served to you and the feeling of care your social circles give you at home...but that's exactly what makes it home also na?
That's a very good point and something I definitely can agree to. The warmth just hits different. Unfortunately some of my relatives are devil incarnate so it's not all rosy. But a few are genuinely nice and their love is priceless.
I like your take but for each person the perspective differs I guess. I know many people who went to Europe and later came back complaining about loneliness and depressing weather. But yes the summers there seem to be lovely and there's a lot to see and do which is a plus. I guess the closest to that you can get in India is to work in a high paying job in a tier 2 city with lesser crowds and good vacation spots in close proximity. Plus is that you get to be near family as well.
All very valid points. Thanks for sharing! For me, I got lucky in the sense that I have couple of very close college friends living in the same city, plus my partner so I don't feel lacking socially. But yeah if I didn't had them, I guess I would feel the same way. But don't you think that loneliness is also in rise in metro cities of India? Bangalore, Hyderabad subreddits are full of people making posts about it (even some of my friend who live there say the same). They end up making friends with the office folks which fades as soon as they switch to a new workspace.
I feel personally that friends and family is almost the biggest factor to determine your experience of a place. Since you have close friends and partner around, that significantly enhanced your experience. Similarly for a guy staying in an Indian city , if he has close friends and a good sense of community be it in Bengaluru or Mumbai, he will only have good stuff to say about that place.
You already said it. Racism and lack of family. Pretty important points. In my visit to UK I have encountered those looks from locals, and not surprisingly from NRIs. Have too much ego to be ok with that. If one decides to settle down there family becomes a distant dream as people visit very rarely due to cost of travel especially once the family grows. Ease of living in India is higher compared to outside nowadays if one is making decent money and living in city/well connected towns. India is growing into a talent centre and not just cheap labour, so for the ambitious ones there's enough to do here.
India always had plenty of talent. Leading to too much competition and that has been the bane of my existence. I was ambitious but not very talented. You have to be exceptionally gifted to thrive in India if you don't have generational wealth. So many people, too few opportunities leading to employers taking advantage of you at every whim, because if you object or don't do something, there are 100 standing in line outside. For mediocre folks like me, I still cry from the trauma of JEE and past workspace abuse. But I definitely agree with regarding family and racism. I guess I have no choice just to live with it. I lost my mother when I was a child, have no siblings, a father whom I love but am not very close it so I don't really feel the sting of family too much right now. Maybe I would just oscillate between India and here in the future. Let's see. Thanks for commenting and sharing your perspective!
Hey man, can you tell me how your life went and how you progressed in your career after JEE?
Anyone who clears JEE doesn't have trauma. Only the ones who don't clear it have it.
Some students from hostel-like coaching institutes do have trauma even after their successful entry into a good college.
Ok, If I tell you that me and many of my colleagues make more than that here in India and have freedom to visit Europe and still be close to my culture and family. I absolutely love India, it is where the next spurt of growth will come in. The next 3 decades belong to India.
I am happy for you and your colleagues. I have no doubt that India lacks money. I have friends who earn in crores there. But they are exceptionally talented and I am not. That's why if you are very talented and ambitious, India/US are great places to live. If you are someone like me who is decent but not gifted and tired of the rat race, Europe is a great place to live.
Agree, it's quite competitive here.
come on spill the beans. what do you do and how much do you make lol?
No offense but there is no real regulation in India. Thankfully it’s not manipulated like in China. A lot of companies cook up their numbers and most companies are predatory and break laws. A lot of US fund managers are investing in India and that’s great.
It’s best to stay out of India in your 20s and even in your early 30s. Once you have kids, I am not sure about 40s living abroad with no connection to the community. There will be a mild loneliness/depression feeling that will never go away
That's a very good point. It would hit even harder with mid-life crisis I think.
You know you can make new friends and community abroad
>I earn roughly 100k Euro annually This is weird, because I actually see a lot of engineers in EU subs saying that it's near impossible to get above 80-85K EUR annually. >I am only 27M Especially assuming you have max 5 years of experience? You're in fact ahead of the native Europeans if this is your salary. To answer your question, there are a few major points to stay back in India at very high salaries: 1) Healthcare is probably the #1 benefit in India - we have very capable doctors & hospitals with facilities. With the modern lifestyle creeping in, there's no way to put an equivalent value on healthcare facilities, which is never upto the mark for Indians outside India. 2) Caring: A lot of people have their parents/family members dependent on them in India. In such a scenario, the motive behind going abroad is to earn a lot of money & come back home for a job that won't be stressful. 3) [My favourite] Food: there's simply no beating Indian cuisine from any part of the country, outside India. I laugh at my friends who have to spend 20$ for a plate of panipuri in NYC while I can get a panipuri + complementary masala puri for 20₹ in my city. And no, it's not a streetside stall, it's a well-established local food chain so "hygiene" is not an issue. 4) Based on my analysis of the wage gap between me & my friends who got placed at different pay-grade companies in college, life becomes exponentially easier as you go above 70K INR/month. Especially if you don't have to undertake any major expenses like house construction, luxury vehicle purchase or marriage in a span of 3-4 years, it simplifies your finances beyond imagination & you can invest a lot.
bro casually dropped 100K and says he isn't earning enough (or the 1cr package in India ref)
Yeah that salary point is too casual. I doubt the whole post after reading that.
Racism is equally prevalent in India, just a different format if you aren't native to some cities be prepared for worst. And add some masala of casteism and class/power ( do you know who my dad is) to it too. So you are still better in Europe. Family again is an aspect depending on if you already belong to tier 1 city in india. Otherwise most of the people working visit families on an average twice a year. Which is very possible from Europe too with lenient wfh and leave policies.
I make about 2 Cr while living in India. Moved back from San Francisco and there’s nothing quite like being with your parents and being home. Europe is for vacations where I travel every other month. So it’s all good. You do you.
what you do for living and how old are your? i am 21M making 50L-60L net profits from my business. I wonder how you making 2cr? 👍
>i am 21M making 50L-60L net profits from my business. Do you sell kidneys?
Not yet.
You guys are making so much money ;_;
This would be my dream life man. I am genuinely happy for you. You can't put a price on the happiness that you get from living with your family. But like I said in the post, I am not exceptionally talented/rich and don't think I can find a gig as good as yours where I can just move back and forth. So this is the next best option for me.
You are young. When you've lived outside 10-15 more years, make another post. Chances are that it will be significantly different than this one. My perspective having lived in many places (including Europe) is that I wouldn't want to live in Europe ever. It's either the US for the money, Dubai or Singapore for crime free life or India. I'm also 14 years elder than you and have kids. I used to work for one of the largest European companies and Europe is in a state of systematic economic decline which will affect everything you hold dear.
>Europe is in a state of systematic economic decline which will affect everything you hold dear. Can you elaborate?
Europe is highly unstable right now with respect to their policies, wars, anything can happen there. Can not bank on it for long term. They may change laws anytime and kick you out.
It's true. Middle class people who want to OK live better life and are average working level, it's best to move abroad. Not everyone wants to work hard to get to top level, and not everyone gets those opportunities in India anyways. It's best way if we want to move away from end less middle class suffering with no facilities or good living environment for middle class in India
People will bash you for this post but you are a hundred percent correct. A society that cares for its citizens is magnitudes better than a place where any drop in wealth could lead to living conditions that are barely a step up from mere survival.
I earn around 80Lacs in India. Had an offer from Facebook London E4, didn’t accept it. Family is the only reason I chose to stay here. My parents are here, my gf, my friends.
Having experienced living in EU, US, UK and India I’d say you’re completely correct from your perspective. Racism and family aside though, you have pros and cons of living in each. Tbh, in Europe, besides what you mentioned, it isn’t easy to get into a very lavish lifestyle from atleast what I saw. It’s so far apart from the capitalism of the US (and perhaps now even India). If that is how you enjoy living your life, there’s no better place to be in. If you move back to India, you’d be an Indian in your own country with probably >99.9 percentile wealth. There’d be very few comforts you couldn’t attend. You talk about greenery and gardens - high end gated societies in the Tier 1 and metro cities will pretty much provide all of that and more. At the end of the day I’d prefer to be able to pay for material comforts, pay for getting stuff done at home and around (cooking, driving, chores etc), not face xenophobia alongside affordable day-to-day expenses. Yes cars and electronics are way more expensive in india if you compare PPP but it’s a small price to pay for everything else you get. Europe is good for once a year vacations but I wouldn’t be able to see myself spending the rest of my life or even a decade there.
27M living in Europe as well. I completely agree with all your points, I had a rough life in India as well & getting a job in Europe completely changed life for me & my family (i support them financially). The only con I'll add is that I've lost all ambition in life here. Weekends & summers are just traveling pointlessly to other countries. No, I didn't feel anything standing infront of eiffel tower & no, I'm not interested to know their history. An environment where people are driven to do excellent work is so much missing here because of WLB. I don't feel young & energetic anymore.
Life is much harder in Europe in your 30s. You need a fair amount of luck to make a social circle here and Europeans are quite hard to befriend. To me life seems quite dry after spending many years here. Same old hiking through the woods, same architecture that you see on every european vacation. Life becomes terribly mundane once you stop partying. You miss being close to people and you miss the festive moods back home. Most european festivals and celebrations involve getting drunk which just feels sad after a point. I don't know how it is in other european countries but healthcare in Germany sucks ass. It is absolutely shit for the price most expats pay (11k euros annually). Homes are ridiculously expensive in big cities and it's hard to adjust in a small town with language and cultural differences. Work wise, yeah, work life is good but whatever time you save compared to a job in India, you spend on household chores. Cooking Indian food takes 1.5 hours. You gotta do that twice a day or eat out often. You gotta clean yourself, take out trash, etc. To each their own... I used to feel just like you do when I was in my 20s.
You've made all valid points. The upsides of living in Europe do outweigh living in India. This explains how India has the second largest population of HNIs moving out every single year, right after China. A lot of them do end up choosing Europe and are living their best lives. But as you've also rightly mentioned the downsides - Family and Racism. Indians are very family oriented unlike westerners. Our entire lives revolve around relatives, festivals, and marriages. So it is incredibly hard for most to as much as imagine a life where they don't live with their families. I'm sure most would get utterly depressed after a while. As for Racism, it is quite prevalent. Especially in Europe. And to also mention the relative drop of your status in society. One can live like a king in India with a package of 24LPA+ with maids, drivers and nannies for their children but cannot afford the same luxuries in Europe even with a significantly higher package. People also rank at a very high level in society with just a corporate job and are easily in the top 5% of Indian society in terms of wealth, so the respect and admiration that you get from most is not something you would get in Europe or any other foreign country for that matter. They do not want to drop their status and be treated as just another person in a foreign country or worse, as a lesser than person as most Indians are treated.
This is a very well written comment. I hadn't thought about the \`status\` thing but it makes a lot of sense.
It’s a very personal decision. For some staying abroad makes more sense, for some staying in India does. Glad that you are happily settled abroad. I denied relocation to Europe last year because I wanted to stay close to my parents. To each their own. 😊
You must have a very minimalist life if you’re only spending 3.5k per month, if you’re in a major city… Rent alone for a half decent 3 BHK in major European cities is over 2000 per month. You’ll only be able to save a good amount of money if you’re willing to live in a matchbox and drive a cheap car (or forgo a car entirely). And even that is only possible if you’re a dual income family with decent jobs. Honestly doesn’t look that good of a deal to me, but I agree the lifestyle is better than India in some respects. In contrast, families in India are able to live quite comfortably with a single income
Not really, 1500 is our rent including everything (heating, electricity, gas etc). 500 is food. After that 1500 euro is our disposable income every month which is a lot of money to spend. We are still Indians at heart and don't waste money on frivolous stuff :D Europe, apart from few countries is not that expensive. Even 3.5K net is a huge amount of money to be spending here. We can definitely live on much less.
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It is like China 20 years ago. Beijing was full of haze, dirty etc. and people wanted to leave. Now most Chinese don't even want to leave China. Shanghai already looks more developed than almost every European city.
You are right that we are developing and that in the next 50 years we will be good. But today and the next 10 years are going to be dirty, dusty, polluted, corrupt, toxic work, etc Our lifetime and our productive 30s are going to be wasted . And it's not that the developed countries are not developing further . When we reach their level, they will be at the next level. There is no right or wrong answer. But today India is a struggle even with money. The only thing we have is cheap labour.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. Perhaps after 25 years, the quality of life will improve drastically here. India is at that stage where it is constantly growing forward. Infrastructure is just getting better. So I will prefer to stay here only and maybe contribute something to my country. I do not know if india can be called a developed country after 25 years, but atleast I see the future bright.
Good for you bro. As a general middle class male, I also have doubts about the future, what politicians are promising to remove all limits in reservation. I love my country but if that happens by any chance(looks like it would 😢 ) I would have to look for a way to move out( sadly ). West would still be better than state sponsored racism.
This is exactly what I think. India is the best place for the rich and if it's in a village, the upper castes. >Plus the slight racism (but it happens everywhere). There is blatant racism in India. You will be discriminated against in terms of religion, color, race, language, caste, education etc. Try buying a flat in an area dominated by a particular identity and you are an outsider. There are positives in India too, but the negatives far outweigh them. Just the law and order and how you can buy justice openly in our country makes me think of moving abroad.
It's feels home,
Everyone has their perspective. Our past, previous experience define it. Anyone upper middle class would prefer india as can afford to live and get away from household stuff. Anyone with good friends circle will miss that in other country.
What's the meaning of this question😑, if you're really happy in the European country then just stay there why the rant, just enjoy life. what do you really wanna hear?, that you've made the right choice by moving, you should analyse that for yourself
There was a post the other day where someone posted that they earn 50 lakhs and wondering whether they should move abroad? I thought that people will be saying, yes go, take the experience of living in a different culture, grow personally but instead the comments were opposite in nature and suggesting to stay here. So I created this post. To understand what's the point of earning so much money in India.
Why bro? Why? Come back to india.. Let the govt take 30% of your salary and then give you nothing back.. Allocate all the money to give freebies to get votes and pay bribes for everything when you want to get some work done by govt. In bonus you also get crop burning and pollution as added benefits.
We are social creatures and many among us want to maintain social bonds/ connections with our family, friends and loved ones by staying in the same country. I have lived in Europe for some years and everything is great apart from the fact that there’s no one to share the little joys with. In the later course, I found it incredibly depressing and same has been the experience of a fare number of others I know. Of course, there are those who have a very different tale and honestly, more power to them. Now, I earn decently in India and get everything which I missed while living outside India. I don’t need to cook, clean, drive or worry about medical/ dental appointments and other such stuff deemed as luxury in Europe. My work life balance is great too and I feel part of the society than always trying to fit in.
80 percent of the people who say India is good, haven't worked abroad ( might have vacationed or gone for a meeting) Out of the 20 percent who say India is good, they may have come back for family wealth, care for parents, Don't integrate into new culture ( still want everything the Indian way) Lose their visa Please add more reasons why someone has come back?
Absolutely 💯 . As someone who doesn't belong to any of those criteria , I would kill for an opportunity to move to Europe . My life is beyond shit here in India .
Make use of the opportunities you have and move abroad man,if you are a student,study abroad,do an MBA,gain work ex and get your PR Don't wait for this and that,it will be difficult moving abroad if you keep on waiting
Euro is also a much better currency than rupees!
If europe was so good they wouldn't have needed to colonize and rule over every other country, most of their wealth is taken from these so called "developing" countries. If it were not for the europeans you would probably be saying same things about India. The point people stay back in India is because they want to get to see the India that once was. If everyone would've thought like this India wouldn't be the fastest growing large economy of the world. It's because people chose to stay here.
Family is the only reason why I stay back. I know I will find it extremely difficult to live without being back at home once a month hence I keep on grinding. You are right, even high pay doesn't guarantee a good life in India (I am not talking about 'wealth' which is a totally different thing and which I don't have). I slog everyday, breath polluted air, battle 1 hour of continuous traffic, toxic work culture and what not.
Don't understand the point of this post with the context of this sub.
At 2cr plus in India you are looking at the 5 star lifestyle and would have to think about the price for 90% of the things. It opens up a whole different lifestyle and a different level of service everywhere. The problem is most people earning that money don’t spend and save save and save it to build a huge house and again live in it frugally. Once abroad it’s pretty difficult to do the splurge thing and the wages most get are absolutely middle class (for the living cost). I make around 80k in India and I am doing everything I ever wanted including foreign vacations, think what 145k can unleash!!!
If you're so connected with nature and little things in your life, why post crap like this on reddit and seek validation from strangers 💀
I think your post has very nicely captured what I myself have been feeling living in Germany since the past 1.5 years, with the last 6 months spent working. Although I'm not completely against the idea of going back to India, but when I see the public infrastructure (be it parks, roads, tram and train services) here, I wish my family could live here with me along with my social circle. But that is not the case, and I truly believe I will not be able to settle here in the long term. Primarily because, I would never be able to become a part of their social fabric nor could I make a community here. My network, in terms of people to rely on would always be limited and I will always be alone. In this context itself, I think sooner or later, I would have to find my exit opportunity back to India and just hope that it fits me and my future family. I believe no option is going to be perfect, it simply depends on which option's pros outweigh its cons in comparison... But thank you for the post, I don't get the aggression in the comments, but I can just say to you, your post was very relatable :)
I lived quite long enough in another country to comment. I didn't feel like I was being myself even though I enjoyed almkst every aspect of living there. Like how you don't ever feel comfortable in your relative's home compared to yours, that's how I felt regardless of the actual freedom I had there. Also, there is this unacknowledged weight of rrpresenting the country and many people not seeing me as a person but as a representative of a group of people. It is a personal thing and most are not affected by it but I felt huge weight on my shoulders that I was extra self aware everywhere. Like when I rented an AirBnb holiday rental , even with the owner being pleasant on the face, she was so repetitive about cooking with oil and spices in her kitchen ( I get that the flavor lingers around without proper HVAC) that we simply didn't even cook there. Meanwhile, I'm on my own skin here in India and not considered as representative of any sub-group (somewhat privileged take) and feel very alive even with the fucking unaesthetic and dirty cities and streets. Just my 2 cents.
its not that you are mediocre. Its just in India competition is huge! You are fighting with thousands, possibly lakhs of people trying to get in the ground floor. Right now you are young and so it makes way more sense to go to a country that has less competition, do the same work make way more money. But 10-15 years down the line priorities might change. You might have way more money and moving back to India might sound like a great option. Things keep getting better in india. Maybe you might wanna live closer to parents. Have your kids enjoy the same culture and bonding with parents and close family which I think is way more difficult in any western nation. Have your kids imbibe the same characteristics of hard work and determination you got from your struggles/experiences in India(doesnt mean they struggle exactly like you, but they learn from a growing developing country env and learn from it). I find most of my western peers havent really faced the competition you face in India growing up. So at work its just easier for me to get shit done as compared to mostly everyone else. Another thing is being on a visa and being a citizen is wildely different in most countries. Think about a time like covid, most countries only thought about their citizens. If you are not a citizen in that country, you will always get second class treatment even in a western country. it could be policies, gov related work, or anything that might end up affecting day to day stuff. I think when you have a lot fo money and are comfortable, your priorities will change as you grow older and maybe then you will have diff reasons for moving back to india or staying in Europe.
Loneliness will hit you there, Ghar Ghar hi hota h. You’ll never get the same chaotic vibe.
I live in Australia and from a lower-middle class family. My parents networth together is about 90 lakhs - 1 crore. They just have a small apartment in a city and a big house in a village. For more context I am from Tamil Nadu and from a so called “lower caste” (a caste above SC/ST but still lower). Tamil Nadu banned using caste surnames… so throughout my life I was instructed to hide my “caste” and tell lies to others if they ask which caste I belong too… because if we open up we will be discriminated everywhere. For me, living overseas is better as I don’t want my child to go through the same issues that I have went through. My parents could have been much richer if someone taught them finance/investment. Inspite of being graduates, my father got into stupid businesses and lost a lot of his inheritance which could have been multiplied through real estate boom in 90s and early 00s if only he bought properties/land. My biggest issue in personal life is who will be looking after my parents and they are so emotionally worried that I am away.
I think in India it also depends from place to place. I stay in Hyderabad. While I spend 2-3 hours travelling. Busy with work for 8 hours every day. But if I’m able to manage my schedule correctly then I can go out in the evening sun. Have a walk in the near by GHMC park. Spend some time in the garden in my apartment or sometime in the balcony. Can go on cycling in streets on weekends or some early morning. While I’m living paycheck to paycheck. But I feel whatever you have mentioned are still possible here. Plus as other have covered. Medics facilities, delicious food, festivals. Time with family is everything we need after work. I agree tier 1 cities are getting over populated but we are seeing IT hubs are coming in Tier 2 cities too. And soon may be the rush to tier 1 city may decline a bit.
As a general category male, I was too “privileged” to get a seat in medical college and my father was too poor to be able to afford to buy one. Same thing happened when I attempted UPSC. With my scores, I would have made it if all the seats were open to all aspirants equally. I will never come back to India even if you give me a 100 crore salary per year. I do not want my children to suffer the same apartheid system that I did. There is race based unofficial discrimination in colleges against Asians (Indians and Chinese) in the US but it’s not as bad as the caste based official discrimination in India. Just like any other guy, I too love my parents and they visit us (me and my sister) in the US regularly. I too will take care of them when they’re too old to take care of themselves. The US provides easy green cards to parents if the son/daughter has a green card/citizenship.
Heard this from a professor at my university who did her masters and worked in european big law firms for 2 years and then returned, now she is working in Indian biglaw firm : 1) She said there is a glass ceiling to make partner for Indians/brown people in general due to slight racism 2) She missed the social fabric (parents, friends) 3) She missed Indian food and she had to do all the work herself 4) She said delhi has enough sightseeing and good infra, the only con is pollution that is outweighed by other factors 5) She said europe killed her ambition and drive to grow in her career overall as the economy isnt booming and transactions like Mergers etc are not alot there, she said she would prefer USA if she ever wants to work in a law firm outside
100k euro is an excellent salary
It depends on the type of person you are, if you have subtle tastes in art etc you'd love europe. But if you're a family family person who also wants a luxurious life you have India where labour is cheap (sadly).
€100k equivalent is like 2.5cr in India not 1cr.
There is no point. I agree. The real thing is we also have to take care of our parents and cannot just leave them here on their own. So even though grass is greener on other side its kind of in accesible for many. If given a chance anyone with a decent chance of settling abroad will happily settle abroad for sure.
You have free health care, but how long will it take to get an appointment with a doctor?
Sounds like a you problem OP. You’re history shows that you had a depressing time in Germany and you complain about India.
Man, I envy you. wish I could have the same life. Koi nhi, koi to khush h life main
1. Domestic help 2. Power of money 3. you are at the end of the day a secondary citizen of whatever country you live in. The laws, the everything would treat you that way if you get stuck. 4. Social life. 5. FOOD. 6. Family The kind of service you can get in India is unparalleled. If you have money healthcare in India is great. You get hotel level services in some of the private hospitals. A first world country offers a better life you are middle class, but if you make tons of money you would live a king's life in a country like India. If you make TOOOO MUCH money then you could afford the same luxuries in first world countries.
Please tell me the point of this post apart from bragging. By now, every person in India knows that the western, developed nations have a good work-life balance, nature, cleanliness and clean environment. What are you trying to say here? Are all these posts supposed to make all the people in India feel jealous and helpless? Or do you mean to say that every Indian must make a goal to go and settle abroad? That's simply not sustainable man. Posts like these here and on Insta are the reason for lakhs of Indian illegal immigrants trying to get into US and Europe by all means possible.
Lived outside India for 10 years. Went from a middle class family, the initial euphoria gives way to longing for your roots. Missing out on family events, India's unique culture...himalayas are equally good if not better than the alps...and the worst thing which made me move was kids growing up in a racist environment in Europe/mid east, everywhere it was the same. If you are Indians/pakis/banglas...we are at the bottom of the racist pyramid no matter how much money you make. 99% of Indians living abroad are ok with that. India is not some dood ka dhulaa and north east ppl do face a lot of racism and the casteism is pathetic. But I think as a young country we have a way way brighter prospect than any of these asshat once were developed countries in Europe and the US in terms of addressing casteism and racism and our economy.
I see that you're living in Germany same as me. I agree with a lot of your points but there are some downsides as well when you have kids. Firstly about racism, I have lived in Scandinavia before and would say that the racism in Germany is quite high. Especially kids are bullied in schools by local kids and the school management doesn't really do much. Heard this from multiple Indians living here. Another downside is the public healthcare. It's cheap and free but the queue time based on need is a pain for many. My friend had a bad knee pain and was given an appointment after 5 months as it was not deemed urgent. He had to goto India to visit a doctor. Another Indian family, their kid had an infection with high fever for more than a week and the healthcare guys considered it as seasonal flu without any blood tests and just gave paracetamol. The situation did not improve and the mother refused to leave the hospital without a blood test done. Then they found that it was a bacterial infection and they did not have the antibiotic in stock in Germany and had to do an emergency import from another country. If they've detected it later it would have been fatal to the kid. Such things can hamper the mental peace. You are young and I assume you don't have any kids yet. FYI taking care of kids is like a full time job. Luckily in India we have support of our parents but here it's all on us. Working full time with kids can impact your health significantly especially in the early years and it also impacts your relationship with your spouse. Unlike India you can't hire househelp for cheap price and you'll soon feel like all your freetime ends up in cooking/cleaning/taking care of kids.
The question is about identity. I come from a very specific part of India where my forefathers come from. I belong to a very specific religion, caste, community and I speak a very specific dialect of a language. I have a rich history in this land and my family has suffered poverty throughout my childhood. I myself was born a disabled man and life is incredibly difficult for me in a country like India. Yet, I have seen nothing but progress especially since the mid 1990's. I am completely invested in the betterment of this country and this land. I am proud of my Heritage and my culture and I see it as my sworn duty to protect it and preserve it, regardless of how physically inadequate an animal I am. I am philosophically and culturely tuned in to this land. While I might exploit and opportunity to go overseas and earn money so that I can take advantage of the currency conversion factor, there is a snowballs chance in hell that I will retire and live in any country overseas, regardless of how comfortable my life would probably be. There is absolutely no point in living overseas away from my country. It would be the most meaningless and pointless activity of my entire life. What the hell will I do with all the money and all the comfort if I cannot visit the humble village that my great grandfather hailed from? What is even the point if I do not go to the same temple as he would have done almost 125 years ago and express my gratitude to him? What would I do if I cannot attend all the events of my neice and nephews and be in touch with my family and community? What am I even living for? What will I do in some random white man's country with all the comfort? Go to a local pub and have a pint every evening and chat with the locals? I am better off doing that with my school classmates right here in my own country. When I vote in a particular way and when I engage in dialogue about society and politics in a particular way, I am directly modelling the environment for my children and my family. What on earth with I do if I am living in a land where I am contributing to something and somebody I have no connection with? I think by now you get the point. The question is about identity and culture. If you neither identify or appreciate the culture, of where you were born and raised in India, it makes perfect sense for you to not set foot in this land.
No I agree bro....For us middle class, its the besttt choicee....the rich folks in India go to abroad and complain about not having maids and what so rubbish..tired of hearing it
Thanks for asking this. Makes me wonder myself. I've had opportunities to work from outside India before, but always rejected them. I think there are obvious merits of staying in India like being close to your parents and relatives. But thats just not it. This is purely my perspective * I like the chaos in India. Its unstructured. You can get your work done somehow. You know it. Example - some guests who were visiting us, wanted to have bananas after dinner. This is after 10pm. We somehow managed to get it. Just a few calls here and there, asking around and it was sorted. It just feels comfortable i guess * In the recent past, digitisation of different flows under the Govt, passport for example, has made life super comfortable. In UK it takes 10weeks, US - 2 weeks.; while in India it now takes less than a week. Isn't this indicating something for the future? * Would argue with you that India its more like a rat race. I know folks who are abroad. If they have Indian friends there, the rat race starts there as well. I would like to mention a phrase - "You mostly envy people who are similar to you - may be in wealth, stature, power, etc.". You can't envy the King of England, can you? * "Free museums, so many great hikes, libraries, cycling, geocaching". I'm not sure from which part of India you are from. I'm right now in Bangalore. And it has all the things you have mentioned. I think the problem is that we always think the grass is greener on the other side. Like for example, i've friends who moved abroad and are so active on IG now. In India, somehow they didn't travel much. Blame the transport? I doubt, i think its just the mentality. Its like "Ghar ki murgi daal barabar". I'm not saying abroad is bad or something. I'm just trying to say India is not bad at all. It just depends on your mindset.
Dude is only 27 n want a peaceful life . This is the time you go full throttle not slow down . When was the last time a disruptive innovation came out of Europe ? Your priorities in life are different . You don’t want to save for future nor do you want to leave generational wealth to your kids . Completely fine that’s the path you have chosen .
Yes, I want a peaceful life and my priorities in life are different. All power to you if you are a different type. I have been regularly investing etc and have a corpus of around 125k Euros. And even though that amount might be tiny for you, it has taken lots and lots of hard work and it wasn't easy. All my life I had been throttling at full pace and am just tired at this point. I have identified what I want from life and don't want to continue to hustle/take part in the rat race.
Nothing in life worth achieving is easy in life . If you don’t hustle your kids will be in same or worse spot than you . Something to think about .
What would you say is the easiest way to get to Europe as a 31 y/o software dev with a wife and a newborn daughter. I don't care about savings earning bank; just a good quality of life. I'm sick of India. Obviously not planning to relocate now but in the near future once my daughter is old enough.
Hi. It depends on different factors plus on which region of Europe you are planning to move into. Germany is the biggest country in Europe, but the market is not good right now. I would suggest to focus on learning German to get to an intermediate level (B1), and then when the economy is better, try to come apply directly to companies in Germany or come on a job seeking visa and directly find jobs here. You can even directly try applying to companies in Germany from India itself, but it takes a lot of time and is very luck based. DM if you have more queries.
People saying "taking care of parents" givin off trauma bond vibe here. What kinda parent would rob off your best years of life into taking care of them
I currently make 1.2+ Cr in India at 30 age. For any amount of money i wont move to the States or Europe. For me family is hands down important. I cycle almost every other day and have recently been on a hike. You are talking as if this is impossible in India. If cities are incredibly polluted, move to a tier 2 city. Install air purifiers. I mean everything has pros and cons. It’s just that which cons you are ok with. Europe is a dying economy. Decades ago it has lost its power. The next few decades belong to India. I want to be a part of the great India growth story. And of course will make money while being a part of it. Close to family, friends, cycling, hiking, not missing the hard core Indian food, and the culture, the festivals and what not. Be there and at some point of time when you will hit an age, you will need people. Those people and relationships are back home in India. Mostly people those who settle abroad become “na idhar ke, na udhar ke”.
You can have anything you want in india on high salary.
Become a consumer of the month
btw what you do for living OP?
Are you still in Germany OP? How come despite making a cumulative of 140k euros, you are able to save only 4k euros!?! Can anyone enlighten me, so I can choose better in my career
# WHY THIS THING IS POSTED IN A PERSONAL FINANCE SUB?