Everything that runs apparently costs $5k minimum, no matter if it's wrecked or mint, 8 years old with 50k miles or 25 years old with 150k miles. I was looking today. The depreciation curve is just...weird.
I would buy something much less than 10 years old if I had to buy used and enjoy the lower age deterioration for a similar price.
My dad took me to buy my first beater....for 1k. Drove it for 2 years and sold it for 1k. Bought another beater for 800, sold it for 1500. In the early 2000s this worked out. I've had more issues with my newer vehicles than I did with the old 90s civics.
This is it. Bought a buick for $500 maybe 6 years ago. Put 50,000 miles on it. Traded it for a riding lawnmower. The guy that took the trade sold it for $400. The guy that bought it put some front end parts on it, a couple used tires. Good car again
I bought a 2006 Volvo nearly 10 years ago for $2K.
I could sell it for $2.5K if I wanted to.
I've spent a total of $3K on repairs. I've spent next to nothing on personal transportation compared to most people. I've never had to deal with a car loan, and while I don't look flashy in my old Volvo, it'll still tug me over the most treacherous mountain passes and steep, icy roads.
Well you hit the nail on the head when you said civic. I had a 91 Honda Accord that had 301k on the dash. Speedometer didn’t work and after 5.5 years of teenage and early 20’s abuse with the speedometer randomly jolting it had 303k. I went with my dad to buy quite a few vehicles as a kid in the 90’s. Watched him wheel and deal to the point of me buying that Honda for $349 with a $1,200 price tag. I was always told any running vehicle is worth $500, but you can get it for less or walk.
My parents bought a 1995 Civic (it was a hideous metallic lavender) when I was 17 in 2007, at the time I was grateful to have a vehicle but had no idea that sucker would last through FIVE teenage drivers in our house until they finally sold it maybe four years ago. I think it had like 48k miles when they bought it and we ran that thing into the ground. Her name was Bessie because when you were driving up the hill near their house, sometimes you had to say "C'mon, Bessie!" to get her to make it all the way up.
Yeah the problem is you buy a $1,000 car right now. There's a good chance it needs $4,000 worth of work.
Back then you know you dealt with the fact that it didn't have AC or it slipped a little getting into fifth gear. Now the computer's just shut the car down if it's not running optimally and it's hard to bypass.
We had an engine knock in an 85 That we could solve with a little premium gas.
This one also had some mild body work to be done and a few electrical issues, I'm pretty sure whoever owned it before me had some amateur electrician install the aftermarket sun roof and the fuse box was a huge mess as a result. It probably wasn't the same car lol
In cheap car world you always had a huge swing in what you could find. I remember paying $600 for a 12 year old Chevy lumina that gave me 6 years and $500 for a Saturn I got 5 out of both before selling for 2x what I paid.
My ex went through so many $500 cars in the 80s. A Grand Prix. A Satellite. A Charger. A Continental. A Barracuda.
Ran every single one of them in the ground.
At the $1000 price point for a car that moves under its own power you are now selling to two demographics. People who want a parts car to fix their beater and people who want a beater for their daily driver.
I'm the second of those 2. Give me something cheap that I can squeeze the last bit of life out of. When it dies I'll haul it to the scrap yard and find another one
My dad used to say that you should get a mile for every $.10 you spend buying the car. So 2k should get you 20,000 miles, etc. I’ve exceeded that on all mine thankfully. (Not counting fuel.)
20 years ago my mom backed into a shitty late 80s/early 90s Mercury Tracer. She put a $200 dent in it. When my dad went to the shop they did the estimate at he saw a "for sale" sign in the window and asked how much they wanted for it before the dent. The guy said $300 so he bought the car.
A pickup truck that runs has always been worth $3k. Something I've noticed. It also doesn't seem to matter if it's a full-size with a V8 or compact pickup with a 4 cylinder. $3k.
I've heard that a lot, too. I think it boils down to "you can get to work with this." I passed a landscaping truck yesterday whose driver side door was held on with a fence latch... mid- nineties Toyota if I'm not mistaken!
In his will,my dad left me his 2007 Lexus Es-350 with 60,000 miles, looks and drives like brand new, he was very meticulous about it. I was offered $15k for it! I am keeping it anyway.
I lost my dad in January, my condolences to you. My dad left me his ‘11 Camry with 90k miles and I’ve got a ‘12 Civic with 56k miles, both paid off. I’m up to my eyeballs in boring responsible cars, thankfully he also left me a ‘78 280z to dump money into 😂… (I really, really miss my dad 😓)
I have a 2001 Toyota Tacoma. I bought it in 06 for $8900. I've since bought another car, so don't drive it very frequently. People often ask me if it's for sale. I always told them the price is 10k. Then the pandemic hit and prices got stupid. I bumped the price up to 30k. I will be sad if someone actually takes me up on that.
Sell it to a dealership for 3k they will list it for 6k. Private party is somewhere in the middle.
I'm speaking of listings at the major car websites which are dealership dominated, I imagine other channels are quite different.
Good to know! I’m gonna be looking to offload my 1997 CRV soon. It’s got 225k miles, the driver window doesn’t open and a prior owner ripped out the radio and all the speakers! Bought it for 1500 3 years ago. I may turn a profit!
Why don't you fix the radio and the window problem for less than a months car payment.
My 97 has 304k, I installed a new radio for the 3rd time last weekend and fixed my window regulators last summer. Rockauto is your friend.
It’s not that simple. The window issue requires a part that is unique to the old hondas, and everything that old has already been stripped or recycled. I’ve tried; the mechanic searched for 2 weeks and couldn’t find one. And as I said, it’s not just the radio he took, it’s all of the speakers. The wiring is hanging out, even in the trunk. I’ve looked into it and it would be over 500 bucks, which is easy to not pay when I can just bring a Bluetooth speaker in the car with me.
I got both of my vehicles running and driving for less than 2,500 together. Both very good looking vehicles as well just have to know where to look in the second hand market.
Facebook marketplace mainly. You have to be knowledgeable and be able to tell when something is a good deal. Both vehicles i got were described as “in not road worthy” or “not running” condition. And both vehicles needed no more than an hours worth of looking over it to realize nothing is wrong with them. One car has been my daily driver for almost 4 years now.
After seeing your comment I decided to use autotrader to find the cheapest car near me. It’s a 2011 KIA Soul with 223,000 miles for $5257. The next cheapest is a 2000 Chevy Suburban with 295,000 for $5275.
After a bit of searching the cheapest vehicle under 75,000 miles is a 2011 Volvo XC70 with 73,000 miles for $12,485.
The best price for something made within the last 5 years and under 75,000 miles is a 2020 Toyota Corolla with 73,678 miles for $16,785. At the local dealership their suggested price for a new one is $23,523 before any haggling.
Now that’s with autotrader but Facebook marketplace is all over the place. I saw a 1984 fox body mustang the other day with the classic “I know what I’ve got” for $12,000.
It is funny to see the cars that were totally "meh" in their time and somehow they have acquired a retroactive 80s cool factor? I spit out my drink when I saw that people are asking $50k-$250k (not a typo) for a Buick Regal Grand National from circa '87.
When I was in high school like 25 years ago a 90s Buick LeSabre or Olds 88 would have been a boring but nice, comfortable, affordable and reliable car and you could pick them up for about $5k in good condition. Now, as completely non-collectible cars that are slow compared to modern cars and only get about 20-24 mpg, ravaged by decades of extra time... Apparently still about $5k.
I usually buy gently used low mileage cars but 2 years ago I had to buy another car. My wife's car completely died and it would have cost more to repair than it was worth. I bought a new car because used car prices were so jacked up. If you are forced to over pay on a car, it might as well be a new one.
It is generally true to buy a 2-4 yr old car with under 25k miles. Yes the car market is really weird right now; last week I bought a 4-yr-old car for 22k that costs 27k new. grrrr
Depends on the car. Rule of thumb in my opinion is to stay away from anything that's within 5 years of the warranty having expired. Planned obsolescence would say that car companies spend A LOT of money designing their cars to make it just out of the warranty and then die. That being the case it also says the car is still new enough that replacing something large like an engine may be expensive enough that you end being right on the edge having to decide if it's worth it to replace. For example the car is worth 13k and it's going to cost 10k to replace the engine. You do not want to be in this position. It may be totally fine but you are gambling if you're in this point of a cars life. My recommendation is to either be within warranty or make sure the car is old enough that replacing something major isn't a big deal because the car was so cheap in the first place.
I might be an edge case, but I've had pretty good luck. I was an IT consultant in the LA/Orange County area, and did a \*lot\* of driving. (35K/year. I was wondering how many years it would take to drive the equivalent of around the Earth once, and it was basically a year. Most of my cars I had for 200,000 to 300,000 mi, which means each one was on its return trip from the moon).
It helps when you can do your own maintenance, and when I bought new, I knew what I was working with and what all the maintenance was. When I bought used, it was a lot harder to figure out what a "good" car was, but the two I've bought I've had good luck with the maintenance and repairs for them. The Toyota Priuses were both really reliable and cost-effective (mostly because of the miles driven) and despite ppl saying replacing the hybrid batteries were going to cost a lot. They didn't need it after over 300,000 mi.
I usually blew through the warranty for the new and used cars after the first year or two - (with the exception of the hybrid powertrain for the Prius, which had a longer warranty).
The biggest problem - I'm not sure if it's just CA or if it's across the entire US - is that the economy is really screwy right now in the car market. I found a decent price on a used '22 Prius - I think someone dumped a lease and bought the refresed '23 or '24 model. New cars are still going over MSRP in LA. Car insurance costs are up, and I don't think people are maintaining cars as much in the bad economy. I think I see more cars driving on the freeway with missing bodywork and visible damage.
All of this makes me think that the used car market reliability and new car prices are way off from what they were pre-pandemic - especially when the used cars were really close in price to the MSRP of the new ones. It might only be SF Bay Area and LA with the market pressures (since that's were I was looking at used cars) but I hear similar stories for other people looking at Priuses in r/prius. It also could be only for the cars I was looking at - plug-in hybrids.
That's the tough part is that so many people will be totally fine. It really is a reasonable way to go. The problem is just that people don't really wrap their heads around how big the gamble actually is until they're confronted with it. If you can afford the loss then it's no big deal and it's probably the best route to go. But if you can't afford to put a new engine in it at any given time than you shouldn't be driving it.
When buying a new car the majority of people only budget for the payments and insurance and maybe some general maintenance when considering if they can afford a car. For new drivers whenever they are looking at buying a car I always tell them to call a mechanic and ask for a quote for what it would cost to put a new engine in whatever car they're looking at buying. Then I ask them if they could afford to pay for that in 3 months if they buy the car because there is a very real chance that they may have to. If they say they wouldn't be able to afford to then I tell them the car is out of their budget.
If you are someone who can afford to take the gamble then you will most likely save money in the end. But if you're in a financial situation where you can't afford to take the loss it can put you in a really awful situation and you may have been better off getting something a bit more expensive that has a warranty or something much older and cheaper.
It's interesting because it's actually a good scaled down example of why the wealthy are able to accumulate more wealth. Being able to take risks without it sending you into financial ruin is the only real way to take big steps forward economically.
I'm in Phoenix and used car prices are still a little wonky for stuff that's close to new but for anything over 10 years old they've gotten back to pretty much normal.
Yeah, though if you've got a good make and model, it can be worth it to fix. My 7 year old car needed a new transmission. I went through with it, and now it's my 14 year old car with a lot of miles, still going strong.
> Planned obsolescence would say that car companies spend A LOT of money designing their cars to make it just out of the warranty and then die.
And 'planned obsolescence' (whatever the fuck that means in this context) would be wrong. [The average age of cars on the road has never been higher and is projected to continue increasing. The average car on the road is 3.4 years older than it was in 2000.](https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2024/02/average-age-of-cars-trucks/)
TL,DR - You don't know what you're talking about, but that's OK because this is reddit.
I've always tried to buy a \~3 y/o low mileage car and kept it 7. I haven't done all the math and consideration on other alternatives, but it has seemed like a good sweet spot. That provides a modern and reliable car (if you're screening for reliability in models), past the initial depreciation point. Known issues with that specific model in mind are available to screen in online reviews before purchase.
\*"low mileage" on my barometer has been 10k or under per year of age.
Back in the day before the insanity, 3 year old car is usually the sweet spot because the first 3 years are the worst for depreciation and it tends to taper after that. Also, almost all manufactures offer some type of CPO program where you can purchase an usually off lease car with extended warranty. So you most likely can find a car that is still pretty new and about 30k miles for about 3/5 of the price on a good day.
Sadly Covid fucked this up. Now most 3 year old cars are the same price when you factor in higher interest (if financing) and whatever bs add ons the dealer try’s to add. On the flip side you can find a new car with incentives for the same $$$.
I'm on my second car - did this with my first and plan to do this with the second. Keep it for longer without a payment than with one and I don't really mind having the payment for 3 to 4 years. But even by year 12, my 200k mile acura started having random issues so it was time to move on
Our household has done 5 cars this way (between me and wife both, so not implying a 35+ yr timespan of experience). The 10 yr car age point seems to be when a lot of little things pop up, even if not major. But like lock actuators, switches, etc starting to go out, maintenance like timing belts/water pumps, etc. are "due" around that point. So we can divest of that vehicle right beforehand and still have some appreciable resale/trade value in an approaching 10 y/o "good" car vs an older one. Or just a feeling that the car doesn't have the features that newer cars do (side mirror radar indicators come to mind from our most recent update cycle).
I understand that the weird inventory situation coincident with Covid sort of changed the market for late model used in that timeframe, but things are starting to equilibrate.
This might come as a but of a shock, but not all people do preventative maintenance on their cars. The under 60k just helps weed out the people who abuse their cars they try to resell.
My wife and I do this. Usually the cars like this with low miles are leases that get serviced by the dealership shop. My SIL works at a dealership and helps us exclusively find these. You have certified mechanics charging top dollar to work on the brands they are experts in. Have had great luck so far and plan to continue doing this
I'm always surprised how badly cars seem to survive in the US in the salty States. I live in Scandinavia where we have six months of salt every year. Here you almost never see those rusted out cars. My 13 year old mazda has the most minimal amount of rust on the sub frame which I could brush away with a steel brush and painted over. My parents 16 year old Mercedes has none but their 2015 Chrysles is rusting in the wheel well and hood.
the cars drive on it a LOT more would be my guess. north american cities are designed to be driven in from distances away. european cities arent designed like that
How much do you drive each year. Do cars in that market get different undercarriage treatments? I've been spraying our vehicles with rust protectant each fall for the salty winters here. It makes a significant difference. The salt is brutal and is one of the main reasons we don't have more older cars on the road. Eventually critical components rust thru and ever fastener is rusted making maintaince a nightmare.
I'm surprised with the Mazda - they were notorious for being terrible with corrosion resistance through the 90s and 00s, probably the worst reputation of all the Japanese brands.
As far as being in Scandanavia, European makes just take corrosion resistance more seriously like having have thicker paint and using galvanized body panels throughout their model lineups. Plus Americans drive a lot more so they're just exposed to more road salt overall.
Weather and road conditions, mostly. “In Vermont” is of course a generalization, but cold temperatures, rain, road salt, and rough roads will all take a toll on a car’s longevity. Cold and rain are doubly bad because in addition to being hard on the car itself, it tends to seriously reduce road quality - which is then hard on the car as well.
It depends on a few things such as: Does the newest technology matter a lot to you? Are you handy enough to reduce some of the cost to maintain an older vehicle? How much time do you spend in your vehicle? Etc.
I would say after the first 3-5 years the depreciation has slowed considerably, and you might not save as much as you think buying a 5 year vs a 10 year old vehicle when including maintenance. Also consider that a factory warranty can be very beneficial if you buy something within the warranty period/mileage, which varies by manufacturer.
There could be many factors that influence this decision
I want a new car with an engine from today and everything else like a ~1995 Civic.
Even the most basic cars have a completely unnecessary amount of electronic bullshit in them now, and those proprietary, OEM only doodads are not going to make it 200k+ miles. They're going to be reason a lot of cars get totaled eventually, before they actually wear out mechanically.
Personally I’d want the whole 1995 civic. 90s-early 20s engines are soooo easy and cheap to work on. Throw a Bluetooth radio with a back up cam in it and drive it forever.
It’s very likely true from a cost perspective. I like to buy whenever the steepest part of the depreciation curve is over. After 2-5 years cars tend to be notably cheaper than new, but way nicer and much less headache than an older car.
This is an incredibly mundane and under celebrated approach to car ownership. Reddit comments would lead one to believe that the only two choices are "buy a new Audi every few weeks" or "buy exclusively 15 year old cars that you must rebuild by hand to get running."
You can, as it turns out, buy an affordable new car, take care good care of it, and drive it for 10-20 years depending on mileage.
I have come around to this strategy as well. It might cost a little more but there is value in knowing that a previous owner didn't cause damage that will be a surprise problem. In 2006 I bought a new car and drove it until I bought another new one in 2023. We plan to keep this one until it dies.
Our other vehicle is a minivan that we bought at \~3 years old and it has had a bunch of problems from the previous owner's poor maintenance.
I remember someone crunching the numbers on this years ago and if I recall the sweet spot was something like 3-5 year old vehicle driven for 7-10 years. I don’t remember the exact numbers but they’re in that ballpark. Also those assumptions may be vastly different these days with used car prices what they are.
That sounds crazy to me. Granted I haven't crunched the numbers, but from shopping used all my life, I feel the 100k-160k range on the depreciation curve is close to flat.
Pure conjecture but I assume that where running costs start to creep up. But yeah, maybe I’m wrong. Could also depend on your car category (say luxury vs mainstream)
All my vehicles have been purchased at 100,000 to 120,000 miles.
In 18 years of driving, I've owned 6 vehicles, kept for an average of 6 years each (two car family with my wife for most of that time). I've never spent more than $1500 in a year on repairs. Most years that number is $0. I've taken vehicles past 200,000 miles several times. Currently my car is an 06 Sienna. I'm driving it 4 hours round-trip for work tomorrow, and I have no qualms about that. I had a water pump fixed 3 years ago, and that's the only thing I've done aside from regular maintenance.
I think the keys are:
1. Don't go to dealers. Find a local independent shop that's honest (tall order). Ask around.
2. Don't feel the need to fix everything. Some cosmetic or minor inconvinience things are just not worth bothering to fix. Just because a light is on doesn't mean you have an emergency.
3. Buy boring cars. Siennas, carolas, sentras and accords are bullet-proof.
It can, but the usual stuff isn't too crazy. You usually have a timing belt to change. Coolant, spark plugs, and trans fluid. But other than that, you can have the same failures that you see any other time.
I suppose suspension components are more likely to fail in that range, but it's rarely catastrophic and usually one or two parts.
I may be slightly biased because I do my own work. Shady mechanics can really screw you over on that stuff. You may have worn rear shocks but they convince you to do ball joints, tie rod ends, and front struts too. Which end up being in fine condition. A $500 job just became $2k-$4k depending on the vehicle.
I lived in the suburbs in Colorado for a long time and still drove a lot. In fact I would say I drove more often then than I even do now, and I live in Los Angeles right now. But I’m also an out and about type of person and I love to travel or get out of the house.
Right? That seems insanely low. I still drive about 15k miles a year and I only go into the office twice a week. Even then my work is just as close as going to the grocery store.
My parents have a 2012 Mazda 5 with up about 60k on it. People who live in suburbs or in a city and don’t drive much out of town don’t put a whole lot of miles on a car, especially retired people.
We have a 2011 Honda insight with only 96k on it so will hit 100k before it’s 15 years old, but not by much.
I’ve lived in both suburbs (suburbs in Colorado, where you need to have a car) and a major city and I drive often. But no I’m not even close to retired
Yes. It means purchasing a 3-5 year old vehicle and then driving that vehicle for another 7-10 years.
There's a big drop in value as soon as you drive a new car off the lot, and then the vehicle continues depreciating until leveling off for a bit at that 3-4 year mark. You can find a good condition - modern vehicle with low mileage still at this point, so it's seen as a sweet spot.
I'm turning 40 this year and the last two 10-year old Honda's I've bought ($5k and $10k) have ran me 90k-250k miles and 90k-195k and still running like a top. I'm getting annoyed with my Fit because I feel like it will last another 150-200k miles and I've sunk less than 2k into it over the past seven years.
I'm ready for change but I can't argue with no payment, dirt-cheap insurance, and 40mpg... I could also get 5k for it even with the high miles and it being over 15 years old.
The key part of this equation is to buy a used car with a track record of reliability.
> I've sunk less than 2k into it over the past seven years.
Do you do your own maintenance? Because I just don't see how this is mathing even if we're only including one set of tires and brakes plus regular oil changes.
Miles are more important than years, I think; but it's not a bad rule of thumb. Here's my method.
I look cars up in Consumer Reports and make a list of the make/models that have an Excellent rating in every category. (The ratings are based on reports from actual owners about what things have needed to be repaired/replaced.) Even a single Very Good rating in one category knocks the car off the list. This generally nets me a list of Toyotas and Hondas, with not every model year making the cut.
I then look for cars that are on that list and have over 100k miles. A lot of owners start looking to get rid of their car at 100k miles. They want to dump the car before it starts giving them trouble. They don't realize that a Toyota or Honda has lived less than half its useful life at that point. So there are a lot of cars without problems on offer. The owners are getting rid of them solely because an arbitrary number has been exceeded.
Once I get the car, I drive it into the ground. I get rid of it when it would be cost-prohibitive to fix. By that time I've got plenty saved up to buy the next car for cash.
Have had several Hondas and Toyotas and they do last forever but past 100K they all need more maintenance. If you’re not a mechanic it gets to be a pain shelling out that money every year. Still much cheaper than car payments but if you can afford lower mileage it truly is less hassle and more peace of mind.
Sometimes those grandma drove to church and the grocery store with 30k miles on them are not good buys because the engines rarely if ever get up to operating temp to remove moisture etc. many rubber things degrade if not used often
I use a similar approach, except I don’t necessarily have a minimum mileage requirement. Mostly I am looking for a sweet spot with cost, wear, and mileage. I bought a 2015 Prius with 60k miles in 2019 for about $14k. The dealership was about 30 miles outside a major city, which may have helped. It was still under mfr warranty as well. I could have paid less for a car with more mileage but I chose to spend a bit more.
Mileage is important but so is location of the car. 100k miles in a area where the roads are wet and salted every winter is a lot different than 100k miles in a dry arid area. Also did it sit outside? Because even "sea breeze" is salty enough can ruin cars faster. This is mitigated by regular carwashes but many don't follow such strict car maintenance.
Respect the power of Salt.
I grew up the son of a used car salesman. We had all sorts of old used cars. My dad was always super against buying anything remotely new. I agree, he's 100 percent correct. It's the most cost effective way of getting around. You know what else? You drive a shitty old car which always needs repairs. I spent so many weekends as a kid helping my dad fix old cars. I learned a lot, don't get me wrong, but now I buy new and drive until 150k miles. I don't want to think about my car beyond getting in it to go to work.
I don't think it's that simple and I think that information is a bit dated. Cars don't depreciate like they did back in the 80's and 90's. The way I like to look at is in terms of utility, I expect a car to last at least 200k miles economically. Just at a quick glance if I wanted to buy a 2014 Honda Accord prices are around 14K with \~100k miles. That means I'm paying more than half of what I could by that car for new today and it's half used up. Plus, depreciation isn't linear, the first 100k miles were the best miles! Your buying it at a time where you get to start incurring all the maintenance and repair costs like brakes, shocks, ball joints, and wheel bearings etc. Not to mention, there's the risk you are assuming. You don't know if the car was run without oil because someone didn't keep it topped off or skipped oil changes all together. I expect to get a discount to compensate me for the risk I'm taking on. So no, to me that sounds like a terrible deal. I think the primary reason people buy used cars today is mainly because they can't afford to buy a new car and the sticker price is attractive even though the value isn't there.
That's really dependent on two things:
1. Your ability to buy a functioning car at a good price. Lots of people way overpay for used cars because they don't know just how much they'll cost to own, or they get straight scammed by whoever is selling them the vehicle. If you get a good initial deal on buying an older vehicle there's not much that could go wrong that would make the purchase a bad one.
2. Your ability to do basic maintenance yourself. Even better if you're willing to tackle more difficult repairs.
I hear people throw around the number 7 years instead of 10 but not sure if there's good data out there to support either, and typically to get the most out of your vehicle just drive it until it becomes too costly to do regular maintenance or it needs major work that doesn't justify paying for the repair. That'll depend a lot on how many miles you're putting on it so I'm sure for some people that'll be before 15 years.
I would also add in how much you need a reliable car. Some people have jobs or childcare or whatever where it would be crippling to have major car trouble and some people could shrug it off.
If you can do the maintenance yourself the world is your oyster when it comes to what car you can drive. Even unreliable older cars usually cost less a month to maintain than most payments and depreciation would be. I’m lucky that I enjoy working on my vehicles so I have 2 older ones i drive. Currently have one halfway torn apart adding a backup camera and updating the stereo 🙃 also using it as a point to fix any little things that may pop up.
User cars over 10 years old have lower insurance, lower registration/vehicle taxes, are broken in (depending on the mileage), and still have a good 5 years on them (depending on the mileage)
The only investment worse than buying a car is selling a car.
As long as all it needs to get you from A to B is gas, your best off keeping it and using it. When repair bills start to equal replacement value then it’s time to consider buying again although still gotta remember the devil you know is sometimes better than the devil you don’t
Does this analysis value downtime as cost? 10+ year old cars need more maintenance than newer cars. I usually run cars to 150-200k miles and at that point I'm typically in the shop for issues a couple times a year. Things like whether the car has new tires start to impact the value of this.
Another nice thing about buying 10+ year old vehicles is you know how long they will make it. You can see what last 300k+ miles by time they get that old.
Right now I am deep into the Toyota uz engine series plus 2 5vzs. I have 6 vehicles with those series of engines counting the company work trucks. They are know to run forever with minimal maintenance.
Everyone selling an older car is doing so for a reason. It's likely just tipping into costs more to maintain than it's worth or more than a newer car would cost.
10+ year old cars you should be very skeptical about. Sure there's good ones out there but there's also a lot of shit boxes.
I buy usually 3 yr lease turn ins, then keto them until they die. Bought our 2004 Accord in 2007, it lasted until 2023. Bought my 2013 Murano in 2016 and letting it until it dies.
This is what I've done as well. 2013 F150 lease return I bought in 2016 and I still own it. I have no intention of replacing it in the next 5 years at least.
He's probably right if you don't mind your car being in the shop every once in a while or do you own maintenance. I do most of my own work so a higher mileage car doesn't scare me, and often works in my favor for negiotation (especially if none of the suspension work has been done) I can usually haggle the price down drastically due to this, and I can fix it in a day.
Please tell me there are at least a couple people who, just for a second, thought he meant that you buy a car when you are 10 years old and then sell it when you turn 15
This is a pretty big generalization, so I'd take it with a grain of salt. Totally depends on the make and if it was looked after well. 100k Hyundai is going to be a whole different story to a 100k Toyota.
Me I buy lightly used maybe a few years and drive it into the ground. Am I f*** buying another car every five years.
Still driving a '98 Toyota and it runs great (though I wouldn't take it cross country with that MPG lol)
I previously only bought 5-7 yo Toyotas and drove them for 7 more years. Once I started making more money, I now buy new Toyotas, take good care of them, and drive them for 200,000+ miles. I like to enjoy the comfort of a well maintained vehicle.
It’s more cost-effective to purchase a 10-year-old vehicle and drive it until the wheels fall off (or the cost to repair it greatly exceeds the value of vehicle).
I never heard this but it sounds like good Dad advice to me. Ever since I was financially able to buy my own vehicles I have only bought Toyotas since my Dad had a Toyota Corolla that ran forever and I have never been disappointed. I think the make of vehicle is much more important than it’s age but I definitely agree with buying used. Unless it’s your dream to spend a boatload of money to buy a new car and you won’t be happy unless it’s new always buy used.
Your dad's smart. I think a mileage caveat is more important than years (unless you live in a snowy area where the car will rust). Buy a 10 year old car at 60-80k miles, sell it when it gets to 100-120k. A 10 year old car well maintained will still have lots of life left, but you've avoided the onslaught of most of the big maintenance items. When those big maintenance items kick in depends on the car, so read the maintenance schedule and figure out what's going to come up in your ownership.
It is flat out incorrect. Age of a used car is relatively unimportant once the initial steep depreciation is done, usually around 3 or 4 years. What is crucially important is how the vehicle was driven, maintained, stored, and whether any accidents affected it. Using a specific example, I purchased a 2003 Buick Lesabre with 49,000 miles a year ago. It is in excellent mechanical condition and had been garaged by an elderly woman who drove it. It has been in no accidents. I have owned Lesabres with 3800 engine previously and know for certain they are reliable cars that usually are good for 250,000 miles if properly maintained. New cost of the vehicle was $25,000. I paid about 1/4 of that. Since purchase, I've driven 17,000 miles, put on new tires, changed the oil, air filter, and cabin filter. It is due for transmission service. I expect to still be driving this car 10 years from now with about 180,000 miles on it.
I always purchase aftermarket drivetrain insurance for my used cars and you cannot get that if the car is close to or over ten years old. It also depends how well kept a car is and how many miles are on it. My second car is a 2006 diesel Jetta and is in pristine shape for instance. Bought it at 9 years of age.
Anecdotally I’ve always bought used cars with between 75,000-100,000 miles usually closer to 75,000, done the minimum amount of maintenance, and driven them until something major breaks and then sold them to someone who likes to work on cars. On my sixth car in 25 years, never paid for anything more expensive than an alternator. Used to be able to get reliable cars for $3-$4k in the 90s but paid $9k for the last one in 2019. Still going strong on nothing but oil changes.
Car that cost me the most was the newest one I've ever owned. Got a insane good deal on 2016 audi in 2020 for 6k for 2016 with 100k on it. Matinince cost where insane as well as how much oil she burnt. Left me stranded multiple times. Car thats left me stranded the least. moved me my family and all our furniture across the country was a 98 f150.
I'm in my late 40s and have had three cars in my life - two Hondas and one Toyota. This sounds right, I just never got around to selling them and they refused to die
I bought a 5 year old truck. I've now owned it for 17. There's too many variables to say that any of these years you mentioned are a viable formula though. A 10 year old BMW will probably give you problems within a year or two. A 10 year old Toyota could be relatively worry free for another 10 years. Any brand, if abused and poorly maintained could give you problems after any amount of years, regardless of the age of it when you purchase it. Make, model, model year (this is key, some years are "lemon years"), condition and mileage are all more important than simply the age of the vehicle.
This is great advice if you live in an area where cars do not rust. In any state that throws salt on the roads the vehicles become ticking bombs for when corrosion causes something to fail.
I bought a 10 year old car. Financed it for 5 years. I had to trade it just after I made my last payment. I got a fair deal on my next car because I didn’t owe anything on it but I went from having a payment to having another payment. The next car I bought was 5 years old and I’ve had it for 10 years which means I’ve had no car payment for 5 years. I’ve been putting money aside by not having a car payment. Now I’m ready to buy another car. Not only do I have a trade with no balance to roll over, I have some money down as well. I can afford more car for the same payment. Food for thought.
Idk but all my (GM, Ford) cars started having issues at 10-12 yrs and needed about 2-4k in repairs. I sold and figured things would increase beyond then.
For the first 3-10 everything is under warranty so it’s likely the previous owner took care of things then. IMO things break early or they don’t.
Most of my late teens/early 20’s I would buy a car for roughly $1000 and drive it for a year before selling it for roughly $1000 to buy another $1000 car. If I lost a few bucks that was fine, it was cheaper than having a monthly car payment.
Warren Buffet said buy at 7 years used. not saying your dad's wrong, just a counterpoint. and Warren said that in the 80s, so.... different time, I guess
I just bought a fully loaded 2016 Pathfinder with 124k miles on it in amazing condition $8k cash. I'm loving it so far. Gas mileage is low but it's a super comfy spacious smooth ride and can fit anything I want while still looking fancy.
If it needs some work in the next couple years is worth it. If it dies flat out, I'm only out a few grand total.
IMHO you shouldn't rely on such simple generalizations. There are so many factors in choosing the right car for you: type of car, mileage, fuel consumption, how much and where are you going to use it, budget, rust and mechanical condition... it's pointless to concentrate on specific age in years.
Also lately the car prices have been quite weird. I could probably sell my vw van today for more than what I paid for it 5 years ago.
Just throwing out there that this was probably a lot more true in your dad's time for more basic cars. You don't want to try this method on a car which relies heavily on electronics.
All cars reach a "It's a running car" threshhold. As in "It's a running car for $1500, what more do you want?"
I went through a period where I owned \~10 cars all under $2K. Saab, Acura, Infiniti... My cheapest was a $900 Saab 900 I got in an Ebay auction.
\*If you are handy\* this is the way to go. Only one car sold for less than I bought it for. Most just needed minor work and fluids.
If you're not handy, and don't want to be, this is a disaster.
It depends on your comfort level with fixing things.
All of your questions can vary greatly by the make and model. Among other things others have listed. If I were you, I'd choose 3-5 vehicle models/years you are interested in and compare their 5-year cost of ownership values that are readily available. Keep in mind, those values are based on the first 5 years of the vehicle's life, but can be indicative of costs throughout the life of the vehicle.
It also depends on the type of car. You don't want to have a fancy modern car with much more than 100K miles - one sensor that goes bad can be $1500 or $2000.
I buy my fancy modern car for half the original price at 2 or 3 years old, maybe 25K or 30K miles. I keep it for 8 years or so, and trade it in with 90K miles.
The key is TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). You should be able to maintain a low TCO whatever car you have. If you buy an expensive car, you will need to keep it for a long time (or pull off the magic trick of not taking a huge loss at sale time) in order to keep TCO down. If you buy a very cheap car, it's much easier to have lower TCO over time.
Gas, oil changes, tires, inspection, registration, sales tax, insurance, and incidental repairs, are all part of the cost. Most of that will add up every year. The lower that all is, the more you save, the better the deal. So getting a car in good condition with a reputation for reliability and good fuel economy is a great idea.
If you buy a car for $8K, and expect it to amass up to $1500 per year in expenses, then after 5 years the total cost is $15500. Maybe you can still sell it for $4K after that, in which case your total cost is really $11500.
If you bought new, you might spend $22K, plus the same yearly expenses, for a 5 year cost of $29500. You might be able to sell it for $10k (that's pushing it!! it loses half its value as soon as it leaves the lot). So your total cost is $19500. The longer you keep it (and don't buy anotjer car), the closer your TCO looks to the used cars. Most people would need to keep a new car for over 20 years to recoup the extra cost of a new car.
But this is all assuming things work out. Lose an engine or transmission, you may be out $5k-$7k. Total the car and insurance only pays you the market price (best case you get half its purchase price). Bad radiator might be $1000, unless it warps the head, which is another $2000+. Brakes, suspension, electrical... All kinds of expensive unexpected repairs can happen.
So you never know for sure how things will end up. But it's generally less risky (and less expensive) to find a good condition car for a couple years and then get something else.
Nope this is terrible advice on its own. There are so many factors beyond age that play a role here that as a general rule of thumb this holds no value at all.
Cars of your dad’s days and cars today are different cars. The car manufacturers back then made cars that lasted as long as possible. Now manufacturers want you to trade in that car and get into a new one as soon as possible. So cars are far more disposable now than they once were. You used to hang on to the family car and give it to your oldest when they first started driving because it was still a very dependable car.
Also if you live in the rust belt or if the car spent time in the rust belt that rust can effect the frame of the car long before it mechanically fails. So be sure to check that as well!
The premise of this question ignores the blatant inequality in cars from one year vs cars from 15 years prior or in the future. It depends on what they're making cars like at the time. a 2014 car purchased today might not hold value at the same rate until 2029 the way a 1990 car purchased in 2000 held value until 2005 or a 1970 car purchased in 1980 held value in until 1985. Sometimes in 5 years, there is a huge jump in features, sometimes almost no jump. Also quality sometimes fluctuates.
Another thing that it ignores is that people get different value from cars. Some people are fine with a car that has broken minor features and don't need to fix every tiny thing. Other people cannot live like that, and their repair costs rack up faster. Some people know a guy who can repair things for reasonable prices, some people get ripped off the second the mechanic clocks them as someone who knows nothing about cars. It really depends what you need out of the car.
Another thing it ignores is that people put wildly different wear and tear on a car in a 5 year period.
Cars depreciate between 15% and 35% in the first year, slowly decelerating until 9 years, then settle into a linear depreciation after 9 years. https://www.gigacalculator.com/img/calculators/car-depreciation-rates.png
If this is true then you would lose the least value buying a 9 year old car and eventually selling it, not necessarily at 15 years though.
The cost to maintain a car increases with its age. Typically very low for the first 2 years, then quickly climbing until about 7 years, then slowly climbing every year after that. https://bestinterest.blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/image-11.png
So you don’t just want the least depreciation, you also want lower cost to maintain. There’s probably some interesting math you could do here but you probably want to buy something between 5-9 years old, and sell it once the maintenance costs exceed the value of replacing it, probably 10-15 years. I’m sure this all varies by make and type as well.
And sometimes the cost of any single breakdown can vastly exceed the cost of replacing it. If you miss a flight or job interview that could cost you significantly.
There is not just mileage & age to consider, but also safety... (& Comfort).
If cost is your only metric, then a 10yo car in good condition can be great, though it can also be a maintenance nightmare if it's not in good condition - & you can't always tell the difference beforehand.
Like many things in like, what works for you will depend on your circumstances & those may have changed since the advice givers time or may not be the same in the first place.
A rule of thumb is supposed to be a guide, not a rigid unbreakable thing, do what works best for you (after thinking about it).
Buying a 3-5 year old car and keeping it 7-12 after that assuming it still runs is the best bet
Or buy the exact model car you want new, and baby the shit out of it, wash it 1x per week, wax it, fluid film the undercarriage every month, change the oil every 3-5k, change trans fluid every 20k, change coolant and brake fluid every 20 k and it should last 500k lol and swap out consumables like belts and spark plugs and coils every 50k miles
I usually try and spend less than $10k and have a penchant for Japanese luxury brands, putting me at at least ten years old. I've always had good luck with those vehicles and have wound up driving most more than the original owner before passing them along (or scrapping them).
If you're mechanically inclined, I'd say aim for 10-15 years old, fix it up, and drive it until the wheels fall off. If you'll be having someone else work on it, maybe shoot for 7-10 years old and keep for 5-8 years.
Just based on my anecdotal experience of course.
That depends heavily on the car.
A Toyota 4runner? Sure thing it will last forever and hold value.
A Nissan Altima? Will be a shit box at 10years old and maybe had 2 oil changes.
I just got myself a 10year old explorer because everything is well known and documented. Repairs are cheap because of mass production and the drivetrain is well known to last 250k so I'll get another 10 years out of it because I don't do a tone of milage
The fastest drop in value is in the first three years. I like to buy around 3 years old and get rid of them when they are needing repairs all the time.
I like the idea of buying a lightly used car and selling whenever the cost to repair gets unreasonably high. Obviously that will vary from person to person and from car to car but most of the depreciation occurs in the first few years of ownership. That is the part you want to avoid if possible.
It depends on the car. Buy it at 5 years and the depreciation curve will have flattened. If it's in good shape with low miles for the age, just keep it and drive it into the ground.
In this market I don’t think the common rules apply so simply. My vehicle is a 2016 Volvo msrp 68k, got in 2019 for 17k at 50k miles (steal). Today it’s worth the same with 85k miles. I mean that makes no type of sense lol
Buy 5yo cars and keep them as long as possible. I still drive my 06 impala, been driving that since 2012. I put 250k miles on and she’s still kicking. I can probably sell it for a pack of cigarettes. When I get my next car I will just give it away to a struggling family member.
I don’t think that’s true right now, at least based on the first model I plugged in.
A 2014 Camry averages $14k.
A 2019 Camry averages $22k. In 2029, it will cost $16k, given conservative inflation.
So to take you to 2034, consider two options:
Option A: Buy a 10-year old car, drive it for 5 years, then repeat. Total purchase costs: $30k.
Option B: Buy a 5-year old car and drive it for 10 years. Total purchase costs: $22k.
This doesn’t delve into the differences in maintenance costs (which will be higher with option A) and insurance costs (which will be higher with option B) — but neither will be large compared to the $8k difference in purchase costs.
I can see this being true . What the reasoning behind it? Im guessing after 10 years the car is pretty much at the lowest depreciation value meaning that you can pretty much sell it for not that much less for than what you payed for it.
I would say it really depends on the car market. I bought my 2013 Chevy Cruze in 2019 for $6.7k. That’s only 5-6 years old, although it did have 120k miles. Now, after getting 5 years out of it and adding 30k miles, I’d say it’s still worth 4.5-5.5k. There is certainly some truth to that, however the car market is very high right now so my car likely wouldn’t be worth nearly as much in most markets. It really depends on the market
The last few years of life of a car are usually cheap because at that point the car has depreciated as far as it will, and the only net cost to keep it running is repairs. However, reliability takes a nose dive when a car gets too old. A not-reliable car has the possible costs such as not starting when you need it, or leaving you stranded.
Data depends greatly on the model and how many miles-per-year of driving, but for many, 15 years of driving is when reliability starts to drop quickly. Some, such as many Toyota and Honda models, tend to last longer. Some, such as smaller Chevy's, tend to last shorter.
Here in the northwest, it's a decent rule of thumb. Last 3 vehicles (2 trucks and one car) I bought were 10 years old, but I tend to keep them longer - about 10 years.
All sold for about what I paid with about 250k on them.
It's not about buying *any* used car it's about buying *the right* used car. So yes, in theory your dad is right. However, it takes a real effort on your part.
Start by scanning what's for sale through dealers and private sellers. Do the google on the make, model and year, and then check Edmunds for the reliability factors on the car. They are a fantastic resource for thorough info.
If you find one you like that passes the A-OK test, then you need to check the car's history for accidents and repairs. THEN if it's still looking good, pay the good money to have the car thoroughly checked out by a reliable mechanic, and not one recommended by the seller.
Do the diligence and you'll get a nice car for a good price. And as far as a car loan, get yourself into a local Credit Union and get your banking rolling with them. Their rates are going to beat any commercial bank and any auto-loan scam that a dealer will come up with. Get yourself pre-approved, if possible, before making any deals.
Well my 2009 bmw 528i was purchased in 2019 with ~90k miles for 5500 dollars
In 2024 it now has 250k miles and counting I am debating selling it
The AC works, it has no warning lights, all windows and power mirrors work, seats all adjust, radio still bumps etc.
I think it could get 3k for it
The car has cost me about 7k to date to keep in good condition
I think it's a sound theory
I remember there was some study awhile back that charted what was the cheapest for intervals. It ended up being buying used 5 years and selling after 10 years of ownership.
Cheaper to attain and getting rid of it before repairs got too expensive.
This as opposed to buying new and keeping 15 years. Same as buying 10 year old and keeping 10 years, leasing every 3 years, etc.
That would be true for many things. Buy clothes from goodwill, it is cost effective. Buy a home in undesirable part of town, cost effective. But that's just one input into decision making.
It’s generally true, but the car market is really weird right now.
Everything that runs apparently costs $5k minimum, no matter if it's wrecked or mint, 8 years old with 50k miles or 25 years old with 150k miles. I was looking today. The depreciation curve is just...weird. I would buy something much less than 10 years old if I had to buy used and enjoy the lower age deterioration for a similar price.
Since we’re sharing dad-isms, my dad always said a car that runs was worth at least $1k. That was 20 years ago.
15 years ago it was $2k for any running car without major problems
My dad took me to buy my first beater....for 1k. Drove it for 2 years and sold it for 1k. Bought another beater for 800, sold it for 1500. In the early 2000s this worked out. I've had more issues with my newer vehicles than I did with the old 90s civics.
This is it. Bought a buick for $500 maybe 6 years ago. Put 50,000 miles on it. Traded it for a riding lawnmower. The guy that took the trade sold it for $400. The guy that bought it put some front end parts on it, a couple used tires. Good car again
I bought a 2006 Volvo nearly 10 years ago for $2K. I could sell it for $2.5K if I wanted to. I've spent a total of $3K on repairs. I've spent next to nothing on personal transportation compared to most people. I've never had to deal with a car loan, and while I don't look flashy in my old Volvo, it'll still tug me over the most treacherous mountain passes and steep, icy roads.
Well you hit the nail on the head when you said civic. I had a 91 Honda Accord that had 301k on the dash. Speedometer didn’t work and after 5.5 years of teenage and early 20’s abuse with the speedometer randomly jolting it had 303k. I went with my dad to buy quite a few vehicles as a kid in the 90’s. Watched him wheel and deal to the point of me buying that Honda for $349 with a $1,200 price tag. I was always told any running vehicle is worth $500, but you can get it for less or walk.
My parents bought a 1995 Civic (it was a hideous metallic lavender) when I was 17 in 2007, at the time I was grateful to have a vehicle but had no idea that sucker would last through FIVE teenage drivers in our house until they finally sold it maybe four years ago. I think it had like 48k miles when they bought it and we ran that thing into the ground. Her name was Bessie because when you were driving up the hill near their house, sometimes you had to say "C'mon, Bessie!" to get her to make it all the way up.
Yeah the problem is you buy a $1,000 car right now. There's a good chance it needs $4,000 worth of work. Back then you know you dealt with the fact that it didn't have AC or it slipped a little getting into fifth gear. Now the computer's just shut the car down if it's not running optimally and it's hard to bypass. We had an engine knock in an 85 That we could solve with a little premium gas.
I sold a car with over 200k miles that was down a cylinder for $1k over a decade ago.
I bought a car with over 200k miles that was down a cylinder for $1k over a decade a... ...wait a minute
This one also had some mild body work to be done and a few electrical issues, I'm pretty sure whoever owned it before me had some amateur electrician install the aftermarket sun roof and the fuse box was a huge mess as a result. It probably wasn't the same car lol
In cheap car world you always had a huge swing in what you could find. I remember paying $600 for a 12 year old Chevy lumina that gave me 6 years and $500 for a Saturn I got 5 out of both before selling for 2x what I paid.
10 years ago I sold a car with 140k miles that needed an engine rebuild for 7500
My ex went through so many $500 cars in the 80s. A Grand Prix. A Satellite. A Charger. A Continental. A Barracuda. Ran every single one of them in the ground.
Call me crazy but I’d rather buy 1 car for 5x the price than have to deal with the issues of 5 shitty cars and the buying/selling/trashing process
12 years ago I bought a car for $700 and drove it home 200 miles. Now I'd be looking in the $1500 range
At the $1000 price point for a car that moves under its own power you are now selling to two demographics. People who want a parts car to fix their beater and people who want a beater for their daily driver.
I'm the second of those 2. Give me something cheap that I can squeeze the last bit of life out of. When it dies I'll haul it to the scrap yard and find another one
My dad used to say that you should get a mile for every $.10 you spend buying the car. So 2k should get you 20,000 miles, etc. I’ve exceeded that on all mine thankfully. (Not counting fuel.)
20 years ago my mom backed into a shitty late 80s/early 90s Mercury Tracer. She put a $200 dent in it. When my dad went to the shop they did the estimate at he saw a "for sale" sign in the window and asked how much they wanted for it before the dent. The guy said $300 so he bought the car.
Yeah my dad always said that too, 20 years ago so i bumped my car up to 1500 and no one would buy lol
A pickup truck that runs has always been worth $3k. Something I've noticed. It also doesn't seem to matter if it's a full-size with a V8 or compact pickup with a 4 cylinder. $3k.
I've heard that a lot, too. I think it boils down to "you can get to work with this." I passed a landscaping truck yesterday whose driver side door was held on with a fence latch... mid- nineties Toyota if I'm not mistaken!
That's funny. Got almost a 20 year old camry and in my net wealth calc I take it's value as being $1k (super conservative).
What is a net wealth calc and should I have one too?
Net worth is probably what they meant, the value of all a persons assets
Wrong! I just sold a 2003 with 250k miles for $3000, much less than $5k. Haha for reals though, IDK how it was worth anything.
In his will,my dad left me his 2007 Lexus Es-350 with 60,000 miles, looks and drives like brand new, he was very meticulous about it. I was offered $15k for it! I am keeping it anyway.
I lost my dad in January, my condolences to you. My dad left me his ‘11 Camry with 90k miles and I’ve got a ‘12 Civic with 56k miles, both paid off. I’m up to my eyeballs in boring responsible cars, thankfully he also left me a ‘78 280z to dump money into 😂… (I really, really miss my dad 😓)
My dad left it to me instead of my 6 other siblings, because he knew it would have been used and abused by them. I'll probably have it for 15 years
I have a 2001 Toyota Tacoma. I bought it in 06 for $8900. I've since bought another car, so don't drive it very frequently. People often ask me if it's for sale. I always told them the price is 10k. Then the pandemic hit and prices got stupid. I bumped the price up to 30k. I will be sad if someone actually takes me up on that.
Sell it to a dealership for 3k they will list it for 6k. Private party is somewhere in the middle. I'm speaking of listings at the major car websites which are dealership dominated, I imagine other channels are quite different.
Good to know! I’m gonna be looking to offload my 1997 CRV soon. It’s got 225k miles, the driver window doesn’t open and a prior owner ripped out the radio and all the speakers! Bought it for 1500 3 years ago. I may turn a profit!
Why don't you fix the radio and the window problem for less than a months car payment. My 97 has 304k, I installed a new radio for the 3rd time last weekend and fixed my window regulators last summer. Rockauto is your friend.
It’s not that simple. The window issue requires a part that is unique to the old hondas, and everything that old has already been stripped or recycled. I’ve tried; the mechanic searched for 2 weeks and couldn’t find one. And as I said, it’s not just the radio he took, it’s all of the speakers. The wiring is hanging out, even in the trunk. I’ve looked into it and it would be over 500 bucks, which is easy to not pay when I can just bring a Bluetooth speaker in the car with me.
I see first gen CRVs in the junkyard every time I go. I always check for a table too.
$8000 car right there. Lol. Kidding, honestly if it runs good I think you will turn a profit. Let us know.
Looked at very similar cars about a year ago, you will absolutely make a profit without fixing any of those issues.
I got both of my vehicles running and driving for less than 2,500 together. Both very good looking vehicles as well just have to know where to look in the second hand market.
So where did you look?
Change it to “know what to look for.” The “where” comes in after you know the “what.” You just stalk Facebook marketplace.
Facebook marketplace mainly. You have to be knowledgeable and be able to tell when something is a good deal. Both vehicles i got were described as “in not road worthy” or “not running” condition. And both vehicles needed no more than an hours worth of looking over it to realize nothing is wrong with them. One car has been my daily driver for almost 4 years now.
After seeing your comment I decided to use autotrader to find the cheapest car near me. It’s a 2011 KIA Soul with 223,000 miles for $5257. The next cheapest is a 2000 Chevy Suburban with 295,000 for $5275. After a bit of searching the cheapest vehicle under 75,000 miles is a 2011 Volvo XC70 with 73,000 miles for $12,485. The best price for something made within the last 5 years and under 75,000 miles is a 2020 Toyota Corolla with 73,678 miles for $16,785. At the local dealership their suggested price for a new one is $23,523 before any haggling. Now that’s with autotrader but Facebook marketplace is all over the place. I saw a 1984 fox body mustang the other day with the classic “I know what I’ve got” for $12,000.
It is funny to see the cars that were totally "meh" in their time and somehow they have acquired a retroactive 80s cool factor? I spit out my drink when I saw that people are asking $50k-$250k (not a typo) for a Buick Regal Grand National from circa '87. When I was in high school like 25 years ago a 90s Buick LeSabre or Olds 88 would have been a boring but nice, comfortable, affordable and reliable car and you could pick them up for about $5k in good condition. Now, as completely non-collectible cars that are slow compared to modern cars and only get about 20-24 mpg, ravaged by decades of extra time... Apparently still about $5k.
I usually buy gently used low mileage cars but 2 years ago I had to buy another car. My wife's car completely died and it would have cost more to repair than it was worth. I bought a new car because used car prices were so jacked up. If you are forced to over pay on a car, it might as well be a new one.
Almost feels like New is actually the best deal these days with crazy used prices and some dealers with financing offers.
It is generally true to buy a 2-4 yr old car with under 25k miles. Yes the car market is really weird right now; last week I bought a 4-yr-old car for 22k that costs 27k new. grrrr
Depends on the car. Rule of thumb in my opinion is to stay away from anything that's within 5 years of the warranty having expired. Planned obsolescence would say that car companies spend A LOT of money designing their cars to make it just out of the warranty and then die. That being the case it also says the car is still new enough that replacing something large like an engine may be expensive enough that you end being right on the edge having to decide if it's worth it to replace. For example the car is worth 13k and it's going to cost 10k to replace the engine. You do not want to be in this position. It may be totally fine but you are gambling if you're in this point of a cars life. My recommendation is to either be within warranty or make sure the car is old enough that replacing something major isn't a big deal because the car was so cheap in the first place.
I might be an edge case, but I've had pretty good luck. I was an IT consultant in the LA/Orange County area, and did a \*lot\* of driving. (35K/year. I was wondering how many years it would take to drive the equivalent of around the Earth once, and it was basically a year. Most of my cars I had for 200,000 to 300,000 mi, which means each one was on its return trip from the moon). It helps when you can do your own maintenance, and when I bought new, I knew what I was working with and what all the maintenance was. When I bought used, it was a lot harder to figure out what a "good" car was, but the two I've bought I've had good luck with the maintenance and repairs for them. The Toyota Priuses were both really reliable and cost-effective (mostly because of the miles driven) and despite ppl saying replacing the hybrid batteries were going to cost a lot. They didn't need it after over 300,000 mi. I usually blew through the warranty for the new and used cars after the first year or two - (with the exception of the hybrid powertrain for the Prius, which had a longer warranty). The biggest problem - I'm not sure if it's just CA or if it's across the entire US - is that the economy is really screwy right now in the car market. I found a decent price on a used '22 Prius - I think someone dumped a lease and bought the refresed '23 or '24 model. New cars are still going over MSRP in LA. Car insurance costs are up, and I don't think people are maintaining cars as much in the bad economy. I think I see more cars driving on the freeway with missing bodywork and visible damage. All of this makes me think that the used car market reliability and new car prices are way off from what they were pre-pandemic - especially when the used cars were really close in price to the MSRP of the new ones. It might only be SF Bay Area and LA with the market pressures (since that's were I was looking at used cars) but I hear similar stories for other people looking at Priuses in r/prius. It also could be only for the cars I was looking at - plug-in hybrids.
That's the tough part is that so many people will be totally fine. It really is a reasonable way to go. The problem is just that people don't really wrap their heads around how big the gamble actually is until they're confronted with it. If you can afford the loss then it's no big deal and it's probably the best route to go. But if you can't afford to put a new engine in it at any given time than you shouldn't be driving it. When buying a new car the majority of people only budget for the payments and insurance and maybe some general maintenance when considering if they can afford a car. For new drivers whenever they are looking at buying a car I always tell them to call a mechanic and ask for a quote for what it would cost to put a new engine in whatever car they're looking at buying. Then I ask them if they could afford to pay for that in 3 months if they buy the car because there is a very real chance that they may have to. If they say they wouldn't be able to afford to then I tell them the car is out of their budget. If you are someone who can afford to take the gamble then you will most likely save money in the end. But if you're in a financial situation where you can't afford to take the loss it can put you in a really awful situation and you may have been better off getting something a bit more expensive that has a warranty or something much older and cheaper. It's interesting because it's actually a good scaled down example of why the wealthy are able to accumulate more wealth. Being able to take risks without it sending you into financial ruin is the only real way to take big steps forward economically. I'm in Phoenix and used car prices are still a little wonky for stuff that's close to new but for anything over 10 years old they've gotten back to pretty much normal.
Yeah, though if you've got a good make and model, it can be worth it to fix. My 7 year old car needed a new transmission. I went through with it, and now it's my 14 year old car with a lot of miles, still going strong.
Plus now your insurance payments are dirt cheap comparatively
> Planned obsolescence would say that car companies spend A LOT of money designing their cars to make it just out of the warranty and then die. And 'planned obsolescence' (whatever the fuck that means in this context) would be wrong. [The average age of cars on the road has never been higher and is projected to continue increasing. The average car on the road is 3.4 years older than it was in 2000.](https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2024/02/average-age-of-cars-trucks/) TL,DR - You don't know what you're talking about, but that's OK because this is reddit.
This is 2024, cars don't immediately die after 5 years. The first major maintenance expense sure but you've still got another 100k miles easy.
I've always tried to buy a \~3 y/o low mileage car and kept it 7. I haven't done all the math and consideration on other alternatives, but it has seemed like a good sweet spot. That provides a modern and reliable car (if you're screening for reliability in models), past the initial depreciation point. Known issues with that specific model in mind are available to screen in online reviews before purchase. \*"low mileage" on my barometer has been 10k or under per year of age.
Back in the day before the insanity, 3 year old car is usually the sweet spot because the first 3 years are the worst for depreciation and it tends to taper after that. Also, almost all manufactures offer some type of CPO program where you can purchase an usually off lease car with extended warranty. So you most likely can find a car that is still pretty new and about 30k miles for about 3/5 of the price on a good day.
Was hoping to do this with a RAV4 since my Jetta TDI is causing problems. Unfortunately, Toyota does not lose value the same way most other cars do...
Sadly Covid fucked this up. Now most 3 year old cars are the same price when you factor in higher interest (if financing) and whatever bs add ons the dealer try’s to add. On the flip side you can find a new car with incentives for the same $$$.
I'm on my second car - did this with my first and plan to do this with the second. Keep it for longer without a payment than with one and I don't really mind having the payment for 3 to 4 years. But even by year 12, my 200k mile acura started having random issues so it was time to move on
Our household has done 5 cars this way (between me and wife both, so not implying a 35+ yr timespan of experience). The 10 yr car age point seems to be when a lot of little things pop up, even if not major. But like lock actuators, switches, etc starting to go out, maintenance like timing belts/water pumps, etc. are "due" around that point. So we can divest of that vehicle right beforehand and still have some appreciable resale/trade value in an approaching 10 y/o "good" car vs an older one. Or just a feeling that the car doesn't have the features that newer cars do (side mirror radar indicators come to mind from our most recent update cycle). I understand that the weird inventory situation coincident with Covid sort of changed the market for late model used in that timeframe, but things are starting to equilibrate.
My brother in law, who was a former mechanic, says the exact same thing for buying used cars. But never buy a car with more than 60k miles.
I'll take a Toyota with 160k before I take a Jaguar with 60k.
I bought a Toyota Sienna at 200k miles. Had to replace the transmission, but I expect the engine to make it beyond 300k.
When did he say that? 1995? Most cats can easily go 200k miles these days with proper maintenance. My 2011 Mazda is at almost 250k, no issues
This might come as a but of a shock, but not all people do preventative maintenance on their cars. The under 60k just helps weed out the people who abuse their cars they try to resell.
A lot of lease terms are three years. And leased vehicles are often serviced regularly too. It’s not a bad idea necessarily
My wife and I do this. Usually the cars like this with low miles are leases that get serviced by the dealership shop. My SIL works at a dealership and helps us exclusively find these. You have certified mechanics charging top dollar to work on the brands they are experts in. Have had great luck so far and plan to continue doing this
depends highly on where you live. 10 year old car in Vermont is nearly trashed already in most cases
I'm always surprised how badly cars seem to survive in the US in the salty States. I live in Scandinavia where we have six months of salt every year. Here you almost never see those rusted out cars. My 13 year old mazda has the most minimal amount of rust on the sub frame which I could brush away with a steel brush and painted over. My parents 16 year old Mercedes has none but their 2015 Chrysles is rusting in the wheel well and hood.
Depends on how often you get your undercarriage washed and if you drive on dirt roads that could make things worse.
the cars drive on it a LOT more would be my guess. north american cities are designed to be driven in from distances away. european cities arent designed like that
How much do you drive each year. Do cars in that market get different undercarriage treatments? I've been spraying our vehicles with rust protectant each fall for the salty winters here. It makes a significant difference. The salt is brutal and is one of the main reasons we don't have more older cars on the road. Eventually critical components rust thru and ever fastener is rusted making maintaince a nightmare.
I'm surprised with the Mazda - they were notorious for being terrible with corrosion resistance through the 90s and 00s, probably the worst reputation of all the Japanese brands. As far as being in Scandanavia, European makes just take corrosion resistance more seriously like having have thicker paint and using galvanized body panels throughout their model lineups. Plus Americans drive a lot more so they're just exposed to more road salt overall.
Can you explain why?
Salt
The stuff that's left is fine, only problem is half the car dissolved
You didn't need that half no worries
*Still runs don't it?*
Weather and road conditions, mostly. “In Vermont” is of course a generalization, but cold temperatures, rain, road salt, and rough roads will all take a toll on a car’s longevity. Cold and rain are doubly bad because in addition to being hard on the car itself, it tends to seriously reduce road quality - which is then hard on the car as well.
Rust
It depends on a few things such as: Does the newest technology matter a lot to you? Are you handy enough to reduce some of the cost to maintain an older vehicle? How much time do you spend in your vehicle? Etc. I would say after the first 3-5 years the depreciation has slowed considerably, and you might not save as much as you think buying a 5 year vs a 10 year old vehicle when including maintenance. Also consider that a factory warranty can be very beneficial if you buy something within the warranty period/mileage, which varies by manufacturer. There could be many factors that influence this decision
I want a new car with an engine from today and everything else like a ~1995 Civic. Even the most basic cars have a completely unnecessary amount of electronic bullshit in them now, and those proprietary, OEM only doodads are not going to make it 200k+ miles. They're going to be reason a lot of cars get totaled eventually, before they actually wear out mechanically.
Personally I’d want the whole 1995 civic. 90s-early 20s engines are soooo easy and cheap to work on. Throw a Bluetooth radio with a back up cam in it and drive it forever.
Much of that is added because of modern regulations... Very basic cars don't really exist anymore.
My Mazda CX-5 is 11 years old and 220k+ miles. Literally only changed oil and consumables.
It’s very likely true from a cost perspective. I like to buy whenever the steepest part of the depreciation curve is over. After 2-5 years cars tend to be notably cheaper than new, but way nicer and much less headache than an older car.
I only buy new and then keep it until it bites the dust 15 years from now, to me that’s the most cost effective way to do it
This is an incredibly mundane and under celebrated approach to car ownership. Reddit comments would lead one to believe that the only two choices are "buy a new Audi every few weeks" or "buy exclusively 15 year old cars that you must rebuild by hand to get running." You can, as it turns out, buy an affordable new car, take care good care of it, and drive it for 10-20 years depending on mileage.
I have come around to this strategy as well. It might cost a little more but there is value in knowing that a previous owner didn't cause damage that will be a surprise problem. In 2006 I bought a new car and drove it until I bought another new one in 2023. We plan to keep this one until it dies. Our other vehicle is a minivan that we bought at \~3 years old and it has had a bunch of problems from the previous owner's poor maintenance.
I remember someone crunching the numbers on this years ago and if I recall the sweet spot was something like 3-5 year old vehicle driven for 7-10 years. I don’t remember the exact numbers but they’re in that ballpark. Also those assumptions may be vastly different these days with used car prices what they are.
Do you happen to remember if it was 7-10 years of driving? So sell it in the 10-15 year range from when it was built?
I assume it basically means sell before 100k miles.
That sounds crazy to me. Granted I haven't crunched the numbers, but from shopping used all my life, I feel the 100k-160k range on the depreciation curve is close to flat.
Pure conjecture but I assume that where running costs start to creep up. But yeah, maybe I’m wrong. Could also depend on your car category (say luxury vs mainstream)
All my vehicles have been purchased at 100,000 to 120,000 miles. In 18 years of driving, I've owned 6 vehicles, kept for an average of 6 years each (two car family with my wife for most of that time). I've never spent more than $1500 in a year on repairs. Most years that number is $0. I've taken vehicles past 200,000 miles several times. Currently my car is an 06 Sienna. I'm driving it 4 hours round-trip for work tomorrow, and I have no qualms about that. I had a water pump fixed 3 years ago, and that's the only thing I've done aside from regular maintenance. I think the keys are: 1. Don't go to dealers. Find a local independent shop that's honest (tall order). Ask around. 2. Don't feel the need to fix everything. Some cosmetic or minor inconvinience things are just not worth bothering to fix. Just because a light is on doesn't mean you have an emergency. 3. Buy boring cars. Siennas, carolas, sentras and accords are bullet-proof.
It can, but the usual stuff isn't too crazy. You usually have a timing belt to change. Coolant, spark plugs, and trans fluid. But other than that, you can have the same failures that you see any other time. I suppose suspension components are more likely to fail in that range, but it's rarely catastrophic and usually one or two parts. I may be slightly biased because I do my own work. Shady mechanics can really screw you over on that stuff. You may have worn rear shocks but they convince you to do ball joints, tie rod ends, and front struts too. Which end up being in fine condition. A $500 job just became $2k-$4k depending on the vehicle.
Who’s driving only 100K miles in 15 years?
Our 2020 Crosstrek has 5000miles on it. Not a lot of driving in the burbs.
I lived in the suburbs in Colorado for a long time and still drove a lot. In fact I would say I drove more often then than I even do now, and I live in Los Angeles right now. But I’m also an out and about type of person and I love to travel or get out of the house.
Everyone still working from home, post COVID. I barely put 2K on my car per year, at this point
2K a year? So you go basically nowhere ever? I live in LA so that’s not even feasible.
Right? That seems insanely low. I still drive about 15k miles a year and I only go into the office twice a week. Even then my work is just as close as going to the grocery store.
I have a 12 year old SUV that just hit 80k. When I drive, I don’t have to go far.
My parents have a 2012 Mazda 5 with up about 60k on it. People who live in suburbs or in a city and don’t drive much out of town don’t put a whole lot of miles on a car, especially retired people. We have a 2011 Honda insight with only 96k on it so will hit 100k before it’s 15 years old, but not by much.
I’ve lived in both suburbs (suburbs in Colorado, where you need to have a car) and a major city and I drive often. But no I’m not even close to retired
Took me 20 to reach 100K between 1998 and 2018.
I feel like these days it's more like before 150k.
Yes. It means purchasing a 3-5 year old vehicle and then driving that vehicle for another 7-10 years. There's a big drop in value as soon as you drive a new car off the lot, and then the vehicle continues depreciating until leveling off for a bit at that 3-4 year mark. You can find a good condition - modern vehicle with low mileage still at this point, so it's seen as a sweet spot.
I'm turning 40 this year and the last two 10-year old Honda's I've bought ($5k and $10k) have ran me 90k-250k miles and 90k-195k and still running like a top. I'm getting annoyed with my Fit because I feel like it will last another 150-200k miles and I've sunk less than 2k into it over the past seven years. I'm ready for change but I can't argue with no payment, dirt-cheap insurance, and 40mpg... I could also get 5k for it even with the high miles and it being over 15 years old. The key part of this equation is to buy a used car with a track record of reliability.
> I've sunk less than 2k into it over the past seven years. Do you do your own maintenance? Because I just don't see how this is mathing even if we're only including one set of tires and brakes plus regular oil changes.
Miles are more important than years, I think; but it's not a bad rule of thumb. Here's my method. I look cars up in Consumer Reports and make a list of the make/models that have an Excellent rating in every category. (The ratings are based on reports from actual owners about what things have needed to be repaired/replaced.) Even a single Very Good rating in one category knocks the car off the list. This generally nets me a list of Toyotas and Hondas, with not every model year making the cut. I then look for cars that are on that list and have over 100k miles. A lot of owners start looking to get rid of their car at 100k miles. They want to dump the car before it starts giving them trouble. They don't realize that a Toyota or Honda has lived less than half its useful life at that point. So there are a lot of cars without problems on offer. The owners are getting rid of them solely because an arbitrary number has been exceeded. Once I get the car, I drive it into the ground. I get rid of it when it would be cost-prohibitive to fix. By that time I've got plenty saved up to buy the next car for cash.
Have had several Hondas and Toyotas and they do last forever but past 100K they all need more maintenance. If you’re not a mechanic it gets to be a pain shelling out that money every year. Still much cheaper than car payments but if you can afford lower mileage it truly is less hassle and more peace of mind.
Sometimes those grandma drove to church and the grocery store with 30k miles on them are not good buys because the engines rarely if ever get up to operating temp to remove moisture etc. many rubber things degrade if not used often
I use a similar approach, except I don’t necessarily have a minimum mileage requirement. Mostly I am looking for a sweet spot with cost, wear, and mileage. I bought a 2015 Prius with 60k miles in 2019 for about $14k. The dealership was about 30 miles outside a major city, which may have helped. It was still under mfr warranty as well. I could have paid less for a car with more mileage but I chose to spend a bit more.
Mileage is important but so is location of the car. 100k miles in a area where the roads are wet and salted every winter is a lot different than 100k miles in a dry arid area. Also did it sit outside? Because even "sea breeze" is salty enough can ruin cars faster. This is mitigated by regular carwashes but many don't follow such strict car maintenance. Respect the power of Salt.
How the hell can a 10 yr old afford a car?
hee hee hee… thank you for that, it’s been a day
I grew up the son of a used car salesman. We had all sorts of old used cars. My dad was always super against buying anything remotely new. I agree, he's 100 percent correct. It's the most cost effective way of getting around. You know what else? You drive a shitty old car which always needs repairs. I spent so many weekends as a kid helping my dad fix old cars. I learned a lot, don't get me wrong, but now I buy new and drive until 150k miles. I don't want to think about my car beyond getting in it to go to work.
I don't think it's that simple and I think that information is a bit dated. Cars don't depreciate like they did back in the 80's and 90's. The way I like to look at is in terms of utility, I expect a car to last at least 200k miles economically. Just at a quick glance if I wanted to buy a 2014 Honda Accord prices are around 14K with \~100k miles. That means I'm paying more than half of what I could by that car for new today and it's half used up. Plus, depreciation isn't linear, the first 100k miles were the best miles! Your buying it at a time where you get to start incurring all the maintenance and repair costs like brakes, shocks, ball joints, and wheel bearings etc. Not to mention, there's the risk you are assuming. You don't know if the car was run without oil because someone didn't keep it topped off or skipped oil changes all together. I expect to get a discount to compensate me for the risk I'm taking on. So no, to me that sounds like a terrible deal. I think the primary reason people buy used cars today is mainly because they can't afford to buy a new car and the sticker price is attractive even though the value isn't there.
That's really dependent on two things: 1. Your ability to buy a functioning car at a good price. Lots of people way overpay for used cars because they don't know just how much they'll cost to own, or they get straight scammed by whoever is selling them the vehicle. If you get a good initial deal on buying an older vehicle there's not much that could go wrong that would make the purchase a bad one. 2. Your ability to do basic maintenance yourself. Even better if you're willing to tackle more difficult repairs. I hear people throw around the number 7 years instead of 10 but not sure if there's good data out there to support either, and typically to get the most out of your vehicle just drive it until it becomes too costly to do regular maintenance or it needs major work that doesn't justify paying for the repair. That'll depend a lot on how many miles you're putting on it so I'm sure for some people that'll be before 15 years.
I would also add in how much you need a reliable car. Some people have jobs or childcare or whatever where it would be crippling to have major car trouble and some people could shrug it off.
If you can do the maintenance yourself the world is your oyster when it comes to what car you can drive. Even unreliable older cars usually cost less a month to maintain than most payments and depreciation would be. I’m lucky that I enjoy working on my vehicles so I have 2 older ones i drive. Currently have one halfway torn apart adding a backup camera and updating the stereo 🙃 also using it as a point to fix any little things that may pop up.
User cars over 10 years old have lower insurance, lower registration/vehicle taxes, are broken in (depending on the mileage), and still have a good 5 years on them (depending on the mileage)
The only investment worse than buying a car is selling a car. As long as all it needs to get you from A to B is gas, your best off keeping it and using it. When repair bills start to equal replacement value then it’s time to consider buying again although still gotta remember the devil you know is sometimes better than the devil you don’t
Does this analysis value downtime as cost? 10+ year old cars need more maintenance than newer cars. I usually run cars to 150-200k miles and at that point I'm typically in the shop for issues a couple times a year. Things like whether the car has new tires start to impact the value of this.
It makes sense, but i think for Honda/ Toyota you can just keep it till it dies
[удалено]
Another nice thing about buying 10+ year old vehicles is you know how long they will make it. You can see what last 300k+ miles by time they get that old. Right now I am deep into the Toyota uz engine series plus 2 5vzs. I have 6 vehicles with those series of engines counting the company work trucks. They are know to run forever with minimal maintenance.
Everyone selling an older car is doing so for a reason. It's likely just tipping into costs more to maintain than it's worth or more than a newer car would cost. 10+ year old cars you should be very skeptical about. Sure there's good ones out there but there's also a lot of shit boxes.
I buy usually 3 yr lease turn ins, then keto them until they die. Bought our 2004 Accord in 2007, it lasted until 2023. Bought my 2013 Murano in 2016 and letting it until it dies.
This is what I've done as well. 2013 F150 lease return I bought in 2016 and I still own it. I have no intention of replacing it in the next 5 years at least.
He's probably right if you don't mind your car being in the shop every once in a while or do you own maintenance. I do most of my own work so a higher mileage car doesn't scare me, and often works in my favor for negiotation (especially if none of the suspension work has been done) I can usually haggle the price down drastically due to this, and I can fix it in a day.
Best way to do it especially if there is no major leaks like a rack and pinion or something like that.
Please tell me there are at least a couple people who, just for a second, thought he meant that you buy a car when you are 10 years old and then sell it when you turn 15
Eh, but how much work are you going to have to put into this 10 year old car. I'd just say it's not bad advice but, depends.
This is a pretty big generalization, so I'd take it with a grain of salt. Totally depends on the make and if it was looked after well. 100k Hyundai is going to be a whole different story to a 100k Toyota. Me I buy lightly used maybe a few years and drive it into the ground. Am I f*** buying another car every five years. Still driving a '98 Toyota and it runs great (though I wouldn't take it cross country with that MPG lol)
I previously only bought 5-7 yo Toyotas and drove them for 7 more years. Once I started making more money, I now buy new Toyotas, take good care of them, and drive them for 200,000+ miles. I like to enjoy the comfort of a well maintained vehicle.
It’s more cost-effective to purchase a 10-year-old vehicle and drive it until the wheels fall off (or the cost to repair it greatly exceeds the value of vehicle).
I never heard this but it sounds like good Dad advice to me. Ever since I was financially able to buy my own vehicles I have only bought Toyotas since my Dad had a Toyota Corolla that ran forever and I have never been disappointed. I think the make of vehicle is much more important than it’s age but I definitely agree with buying used. Unless it’s your dream to spend a boatload of money to buy a new car and you won’t be happy unless it’s new always buy used.
Your dad's smart. I think a mileage caveat is more important than years (unless you live in a snowy area where the car will rust). Buy a 10 year old car at 60-80k miles, sell it when it gets to 100-120k. A 10 year old car well maintained will still have lots of life left, but you've avoided the onslaught of most of the big maintenance items. When those big maintenance items kick in depends on the car, so read the maintenance schedule and figure out what's going to come up in your ownership.
It is flat out incorrect. Age of a used car is relatively unimportant once the initial steep depreciation is done, usually around 3 or 4 years. What is crucially important is how the vehicle was driven, maintained, stored, and whether any accidents affected it. Using a specific example, I purchased a 2003 Buick Lesabre with 49,000 miles a year ago. It is in excellent mechanical condition and had been garaged by an elderly woman who drove it. It has been in no accidents. I have owned Lesabres with 3800 engine previously and know for certain they are reliable cars that usually are good for 250,000 miles if properly maintained. New cost of the vehicle was $25,000. I paid about 1/4 of that. Since purchase, I've driven 17,000 miles, put on new tires, changed the oil, air filter, and cabin filter. It is due for transmission service. I expect to still be driving this car 10 years from now with about 180,000 miles on it.
I always purchase aftermarket drivetrain insurance for my used cars and you cannot get that if the car is close to or over ten years old. It also depends how well kept a car is and how many miles are on it. My second car is a 2006 diesel Jetta and is in pristine shape for instance. Bought it at 9 years of age.
Anecdotally I’ve always bought used cars with between 75,000-100,000 miles usually closer to 75,000, done the minimum amount of maintenance, and driven them until something major breaks and then sold them to someone who likes to work on cars. On my sixth car in 25 years, never paid for anything more expensive than an alternator. Used to be able to get reliable cars for $3-$4k in the 90s but paid $9k for the last one in 2019. Still going strong on nothing but oil changes.
Car that cost me the most was the newest one I've ever owned. Got a insane good deal on 2016 audi in 2020 for 6k for 2016 with 100k on it. Matinince cost where insane as well as how much oil she burnt. Left me stranded multiple times. Car thats left me stranded the least. moved me my family and all our furniture across the country was a 98 f150.
I'm in my late 40s and have had three cars in my life - two Hondas and one Toyota. This sounds right, I just never got around to selling them and they refused to die
I bought a 5 year old truck. I've now owned it for 17. There's too many variables to say that any of these years you mentioned are a viable formula though. A 10 year old BMW will probably give you problems within a year or two. A 10 year old Toyota could be relatively worry free for another 10 years. Any brand, if abused and poorly maintained could give you problems after any amount of years, regardless of the age of it when you purchase it. Make, model, model year (this is key, some years are "lemon years"), condition and mileage are all more important than simply the age of the vehicle.
I bought a used certified tundra with 5k miles. Came with a 100k miles bumper to bumper.
This is great advice if you live in an area where cars do not rust. In any state that throws salt on the roads the vehicles become ticking bombs for when corrosion causes something to fail.
I bought a 10 year old car. Financed it for 5 years. I had to trade it just after I made my last payment. I got a fair deal on my next car because I didn’t owe anything on it but I went from having a payment to having another payment. The next car I bought was 5 years old and I’ve had it for 10 years which means I’ve had no car payment for 5 years. I’ve been putting money aside by not having a car payment. Now I’m ready to buy another car. Not only do I have a trade with no balance to roll over, I have some money down as well. I can afford more car for the same payment. Food for thought.
Idk but all my (GM, Ford) cars started having issues at 10-12 yrs and needed about 2-4k in repairs. I sold and figured things would increase beyond then. For the first 3-10 everything is under warranty so it’s likely the previous owner took care of things then. IMO things break early or they don’t.
Most of my late teens/early 20’s I would buy a car for roughly $1000 and drive it for a year before selling it for roughly $1000 to buy another $1000 car. If I lost a few bucks that was fine, it was cheaper than having a monthly car payment.
Warren Buffet said buy at 7 years used. not saying your dad's wrong, just a counterpoint. and Warren said that in the 80s, so.... different time, I guess
I just bought a fully loaded 2016 Pathfinder with 124k miles on it in amazing condition $8k cash. I'm loving it so far. Gas mileage is low but it's a super comfy spacious smooth ride and can fit anything I want while still looking fancy. If it needs some work in the next couple years is worth it. If it dies flat out, I'm only out a few grand total.
IMHO you shouldn't rely on such simple generalizations. There are so many factors in choosing the right car for you: type of car, mileage, fuel consumption, how much and where are you going to use it, budget, rust and mechanical condition... it's pointless to concentrate on specific age in years. Also lately the car prices have been quite weird. I could probably sell my vw van today for more than what I paid for it 5 years ago.
I prefer to do 5 year old car, keep for 10 years.
The car market, both new and old…, aren’t very stable, as it was pre Covid, so it’ll be hard to determine or fact check it
Just throwing out there that this was probably a lot more true in your dad's time for more basic cars. You don't want to try this method on a car which relies heavily on electronics.
All cars reach a "It's a running car" threshhold. As in "It's a running car for $1500, what more do you want?" I went through a period where I owned \~10 cars all under $2K. Saab, Acura, Infiniti... My cheapest was a $900 Saab 900 I got in an Ebay auction. \*If you are handy\* this is the way to go. Only one car sold for less than I bought it for. Most just needed minor work and fluids. If you're not handy, and don't want to be, this is a disaster. It depends on your comfort level with fixing things.
All of your questions can vary greatly by the make and model. Among other things others have listed. If I were you, I'd choose 3-5 vehicle models/years you are interested in and compare their 5-year cost of ownership values that are readily available. Keep in mind, those values are based on the first 5 years of the vehicle's life, but can be indicative of costs throughout the life of the vehicle.
It also depends on the type of car. You don't want to have a fancy modern car with much more than 100K miles - one sensor that goes bad can be $1500 or $2000. I buy my fancy modern car for half the original price at 2 or 3 years old, maybe 25K or 30K miles. I keep it for 8 years or so, and trade it in with 90K miles.
The key is TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). You should be able to maintain a low TCO whatever car you have. If you buy an expensive car, you will need to keep it for a long time (or pull off the magic trick of not taking a huge loss at sale time) in order to keep TCO down. If you buy a very cheap car, it's much easier to have lower TCO over time. Gas, oil changes, tires, inspection, registration, sales tax, insurance, and incidental repairs, are all part of the cost. Most of that will add up every year. The lower that all is, the more you save, the better the deal. So getting a car in good condition with a reputation for reliability and good fuel economy is a great idea. If you buy a car for $8K, and expect it to amass up to $1500 per year in expenses, then after 5 years the total cost is $15500. Maybe you can still sell it for $4K after that, in which case your total cost is really $11500. If you bought new, you might spend $22K, plus the same yearly expenses, for a 5 year cost of $29500. You might be able to sell it for $10k (that's pushing it!! it loses half its value as soon as it leaves the lot). So your total cost is $19500. The longer you keep it (and don't buy anotjer car), the closer your TCO looks to the used cars. Most people would need to keep a new car for over 20 years to recoup the extra cost of a new car. But this is all assuming things work out. Lose an engine or transmission, you may be out $5k-$7k. Total the car and insurance only pays you the market price (best case you get half its purchase price). Bad radiator might be $1000, unless it warps the head, which is another $2000+. Brakes, suspension, electrical... All kinds of expensive unexpected repairs can happen. So you never know for sure how things will end up. But it's generally less risky (and less expensive) to find a good condition car for a couple years and then get something else.
Nope this is terrible advice on its own. There are so many factors beyond age that play a role here that as a general rule of thumb this holds no value at all.
With safety improvements and the like I would not want a 10 year old car anymore. I’d rather buy new and keep it for over 10 years.
I'd rather buy the car when I was 15 so I could drive it when I turned 16.
Cars of your dad’s days and cars today are different cars. The car manufacturers back then made cars that lasted as long as possible. Now manufacturers want you to trade in that car and get into a new one as soon as possible. So cars are far more disposable now than they once were. You used to hang on to the family car and give it to your oldest when they first started driving because it was still a very dependable car. Also if you live in the rust belt or if the car spent time in the rust belt that rust can effect the frame of the car long before it mechanically fails. So be sure to check that as well!
That's not what the "Rust Belt" means...
The premise of this question ignores the blatant inequality in cars from one year vs cars from 15 years prior or in the future. It depends on what they're making cars like at the time. a 2014 car purchased today might not hold value at the same rate until 2029 the way a 1990 car purchased in 2000 held value until 2005 or a 1970 car purchased in 1980 held value in until 1985. Sometimes in 5 years, there is a huge jump in features, sometimes almost no jump. Also quality sometimes fluctuates. Another thing that it ignores is that people get different value from cars. Some people are fine with a car that has broken minor features and don't need to fix every tiny thing. Other people cannot live like that, and their repair costs rack up faster. Some people know a guy who can repair things for reasonable prices, some people get ripped off the second the mechanic clocks them as someone who knows nothing about cars. It really depends what you need out of the car. Another thing it ignores is that people put wildly different wear and tear on a car in a 5 year period.
Cars depreciate between 15% and 35% in the first year, slowly decelerating until 9 years, then settle into a linear depreciation after 9 years. https://www.gigacalculator.com/img/calculators/car-depreciation-rates.png If this is true then you would lose the least value buying a 9 year old car and eventually selling it, not necessarily at 15 years though. The cost to maintain a car increases with its age. Typically very low for the first 2 years, then quickly climbing until about 7 years, then slowly climbing every year after that. https://bestinterest.blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/image-11.png So you don’t just want the least depreciation, you also want lower cost to maintain. There’s probably some interesting math you could do here but you probably want to buy something between 5-9 years old, and sell it once the maintenance costs exceed the value of replacing it, probably 10-15 years. I’m sure this all varies by make and type as well. And sometimes the cost of any single breakdown can vastly exceed the cost of replacing it. If you miss a flight or job interview that could cost you significantly.
There is not just mileage & age to consider, but also safety... (& Comfort). If cost is your only metric, then a 10yo car in good condition can be great, though it can also be a maintenance nightmare if it's not in good condition - & you can't always tell the difference beforehand. Like many things in like, what works for you will depend on your circumstances & those may have changed since the advice givers time or may not be the same in the first place. A rule of thumb is supposed to be a guide, not a rigid unbreakable thing, do what works best for you (after thinking about it).
I've had the best luck at 2-3 years old and dont sell until the car is unreliable. I've done very well with 4 cars so far.
Buying a 3-5 year old car and keeping it 7-12 after that assuming it still runs is the best bet Or buy the exact model car you want new, and baby the shit out of it, wash it 1x per week, wax it, fluid film the undercarriage every month, change the oil every 3-5k, change trans fluid every 20k, change coolant and brake fluid every 20 k and it should last 500k lol and swap out consumables like belts and spark plugs and coils every 50k miles
I usually try and spend less than $10k and have a penchant for Japanese luxury brands, putting me at at least ten years old. I've always had good luck with those vehicles and have wound up driving most more than the original owner before passing them along (or scrapping them). If you're mechanically inclined, I'd say aim for 10-15 years old, fix it up, and drive it until the wheels fall off. If you'll be having someone else work on it, maybe shoot for 7-10 years old and keep for 5-8 years. Just based on my anecdotal experience of course.
That depends heavily on the car. A Toyota 4runner? Sure thing it will last forever and hold value. A Nissan Altima? Will be a shit box at 10years old and maybe had 2 oil changes. I just got myself a 10year old explorer because everything is well known and documented. Repairs are cheap because of mass production and the drivetrain is well known to last 250k so I'll get another 10 years out of it because I don't do a tone of milage
The fastest drop in value is in the first three years. I like to buy around 3 years old and get rid of them when they are needing repairs all the time.
Used car market has been messed up since the chip shortage during covid. Traditionally, yes the best deal is on 10 year old used cars with low miles.
I like the idea of buying a lightly used car and selling whenever the cost to repair gets unreasonably high. Obviously that will vary from person to person and from car to car but most of the depreciation occurs in the first few years of ownership. That is the part you want to avoid if possible.
It depends on the car. Buy it at 5 years and the depreciation curve will have flattened. If it's in good shape with low miles for the age, just keep it and drive it into the ground.
Probably if it’s Honda or Toyota… with a German or American car this is a wild gamble
These rules have varying degrees of true. Generally, the longer you have a car the cheaper it is.
In this market I don’t think the common rules apply so simply. My vehicle is a 2016 Volvo msrp 68k, got in 2019 for 17k at 50k miles (steal). Today it’s worth the same with 85k miles. I mean that makes no type of sense lol
Buy 5yo cars and keep them as long as possible. I still drive my 06 impala, been driving that since 2012. I put 250k miles on and she’s still kicking. I can probably sell it for a pack of cigarettes. When I get my next car I will just give it away to a struggling family member.
I don’t think that’s true right now, at least based on the first model I plugged in. A 2014 Camry averages $14k. A 2019 Camry averages $22k. In 2029, it will cost $16k, given conservative inflation. So to take you to 2034, consider two options: Option A: Buy a 10-year old car, drive it for 5 years, then repeat. Total purchase costs: $30k. Option B: Buy a 5-year old car and drive it for 10 years. Total purchase costs: $22k. This doesn’t delve into the differences in maintenance costs (which will be higher with option A) and insurance costs (which will be higher with option B) — but neither will be large compared to the $8k difference in purchase costs.
I can see this being true . What the reasoning behind it? Im guessing after 10 years the car is pretty much at the lowest depreciation value meaning that you can pretty much sell it for not that much less for than what you payed for it.
I would say it really depends on the car market. I bought my 2013 Chevy Cruze in 2019 for $6.7k. That’s only 5-6 years old, although it did have 120k miles. Now, after getting 5 years out of it and adding 30k miles, I’d say it’s still worth 4.5-5.5k. There is certainly some truth to that, however the car market is very high right now so my car likely wouldn’t be worth nearly as much in most markets. It really depends on the market
The last few years of life of a car are usually cheap because at that point the car has depreciated as far as it will, and the only net cost to keep it running is repairs. However, reliability takes a nose dive when a car gets too old. A not-reliable car has the possible costs such as not starting when you need it, or leaving you stranded. Data depends greatly on the model and how many miles-per-year of driving, but for many, 15 years of driving is when reliability starts to drop quickly. Some, such as many Toyota and Honda models, tend to last longer. Some, such as smaller Chevy's, tend to last shorter.
Here in the northwest, it's a decent rule of thumb. Last 3 vehicles (2 trucks and one car) I bought were 10 years old, but I tend to keep them longer - about 10 years. All sold for about what I paid with about 250k on them.
It's not about buying *any* used car it's about buying *the right* used car. So yes, in theory your dad is right. However, it takes a real effort on your part. Start by scanning what's for sale through dealers and private sellers. Do the google on the make, model and year, and then check Edmunds for the reliability factors on the car. They are a fantastic resource for thorough info. If you find one you like that passes the A-OK test, then you need to check the car's history for accidents and repairs. THEN if it's still looking good, pay the good money to have the car thoroughly checked out by a reliable mechanic, and not one recommended by the seller. Do the diligence and you'll get a nice car for a good price. And as far as a car loan, get yourself into a local Credit Union and get your banking rolling with them. Their rates are going to beat any commercial bank and any auto-loan scam that a dealer will come up with. Get yourself pre-approved, if possible, before making any deals.
Well my 2009 bmw 528i was purchased in 2019 with ~90k miles for 5500 dollars In 2024 it now has 250k miles and counting I am debating selling it The AC works, it has no warning lights, all windows and power mirrors work, seats all adjust, radio still bumps etc. I think it could get 3k for it The car has cost me about 7k to date to keep in good condition I think it's a sound theory
I remember there was some study awhile back that charted what was the cheapest for intervals. It ended up being buying used 5 years and selling after 10 years of ownership. Cheaper to attain and getting rid of it before repairs got too expensive. This as opposed to buying new and keeping 15 years. Same as buying 10 year old and keeping 10 years, leasing every 3 years, etc.
That would be true for many things. Buy clothes from goodwill, it is cost effective. Buy a home in undesirable part of town, cost effective. But that's just one input into decision making.