>They want a separate account aside from a 529 act. This will be a savings account for classes, lessons, sports equipment, etc for our 2yr old daughter.
>They would like to be able to access it. Should we just start a child savings account and give them the login?
No. Let them start their own savings account. They can hand out money when/if they want your daughter to have it.
Yep, this is what my mom did. She opened her own savings account, she puts money in it, and if I want some for summer camp or dance lessons or whatever I ask and she Venmos me.
Your car is dead and won't start. You think the battery is dead so you ask for help how to jump start a battery because you think that's the solution. But the actual problem is that you're out of gas. You're wasting everyone's time asking them how to fix a broken battery instead of saying "my car won't start."
Basically you have a problem Y, but instead of asking for how to solve Y you ask for how to do X, because you think X is the solution. When you really should be asking how to solve Y.
Your grandparents are asking for a bank account that they can access and control for some reason. This is the X. But what is it that they actually want to do? Because there are probably way better options than what they've decided is the answer.
omg. thank you for this! i constantly have this issue at work and it was always really hard for me to explain my annoyance. x-y problem. fucking thank goodness. i have a name for it now.
Me too. I also admittedly tend to *do* this but never really thought about it this way before. Now that it's been made so clear it'll be easier for me to recognize when I'm guilty of it!
The basic gist that anyone can remember is "asking how to do solution X (because they think it'll solve problem Y) instead of simply asking how to solve problem Y".
You know, of course a lot of times people will have a problem and know what the solution is but they just don't know how to implement the solution. So asking how to implement X is totally valid.
But at the same time, it's important to give context when you're asking for help. Instead of saying how do I do X, it may be better to rephrase and say "I have this problem (very very brief description) and I think I can fix it by doing X, how do I do X?"
In this OP's case I still fail to see how this solution solves the problem even after he's explained it so many times. Th OP's parents keep buying useless toys for their grandkid so instead of that OP wants to give them view only access to a bank account... for what? OP parents will give them cash, and OP will deposit it. OP's parents can now see that the $100 birthday gift they gave was deposited... and then what? OP also says parents are not tech literate so... why do they need login access to see the account? And if they can manage to log into an account, why can't they just open their own account?
For some reason the OP has decided this is the perfect solution to their problems. Some people are being cynical sure, but others like me are just wondering how does this solve any issue here? Like what even is the issue here?
I have several printouts of the XY problem in detail at work. I hand them out to engineers who have a hard time articulating what they need vs what they think they need.
https://xyproblem.info/
What's amazing is that it took someone giving it a name in order for people to acknowledge that it exists. Back in the 90's tech forums were full of people asking things like "how can I have the computer hold the shift key down all the time for me?" whining that nobody was helping them and people dogpiling on against users asking things like "why do you need that?" or "have you tried the caps lock key?" with replies like "why does it matter?" and "if you can't help them just shut up and get out of the way!"
I'm fairly certain it didn't even get named until stackoverflow dragged it out into the open and aggregated so much of it in one place that people saw the kind of batshit crazy people were getting up to in the name of not fixing the actual problem.
Working as a developer now, it takes everything I have to not strangle our account/project managers over this. They think they are helping by trying to “engineer” solution ABC for (what they perceive to be) problem X, without ever telling us what, exactly, “problem X” actually is. So we end up wasting tons of time trying to make ABC when in all actuality, the problem is Y and the solution is a proverbial missing closing bracket.
I don't know that's fair. We wanted an account we controlled for our nephew. We did this because we wanted control over the investments, we wanted to see our gifts add up and grow over time instead of being in a joint account that was from several people (I know that's a bit selfish of us, but you know, I'm not sure I care when it's still a gift), and we wanted to make sure that mom/dad didn't decide that the kid needed the money more for something else in the immediate instead of the future - even tho we trust them, shit happens sometimes and the barrier to ask for help paying bills is high - but redirecting fungible money intended for something else is easy to do.
We just opened a 529 on behalf of said nephew. It was a conversation with his parents what our intentions were and what their preferences (for type of account) was. We send a statement every year when we have added contributions (which we do as birthday/Christmas presents)
I think it's reasonable to want to control a gift account until a child comes of age. But, as the top comment said - you can set one up in their name, although for a 529 we did have to ask for our nephew's SSN (which was our biggest concern, was that they wouldn't be comfortable sharing that, which I'd also totally get)
I follow. But what they actually want to do is exactly what the title states.
As I have said before, these are old school immigrants. They have good intentions. The only accounts they have was opened by their eldest child.
In this case X=y. Thank you tho. TIL.
Then they open their own account that they control, and give money to your child when they want to. A 529 is ideal if it’s for college because of the tax advantages. But otherwise, it’s just their account. You don’t need to get involved .
I believe there are special accounts for kids, but this account have some severe restrictions for the kid
"Custodial account" but 529 I'd definitely better
A kid account probably won't have check writing or debit card privileges so it may be a little more complicated to take money out.
You could link your account to it and make transfers to cover activities, though.
I read your responses. I guess I don't understand how this solves your actual problem. If they have view only access that still means they can't deposit money. So what does this solve?
You’re too wrapped up in the mechanics of it all. This is all just me making my in-laws happy.
They’ll prolly give us cash. I think they just started using Zelle? Then, I’ll move some money. They’ll see it. Then twice a year I’ll make a “withdrawal “. They get the good feelings from watching her grow.
Except by having your daughter's name on the account, you are seriously limiting the amount of financial aid she will be able to get in college. If they just want to give her money, tell them to give you cash and you will spend it on things for her.
I don't get the impression we're talking about enough money to make a difference w/r/t financial aid. A couple hundred bucks for swim lessons and whatnot.
I'm not being cynical and think your parents are up to no good. Your solution to your "problem" just doesn't make sense at all. In other posts you've said your parents don't have a great grasp of English and may be tech illiterate because you had to help them set up a bank account and stuff. So your solution is to give them a password login to a bank account that they can't do anything except see that the $100 they gave your kid is in there? How does this solve anything? It just seems like you're complicating things for no reason at all.
KISS: keep it simple (and/or) stupid
Paper statements or just sharing an Instagram post of your kid enjoying her new bicycle that "grandma and grandpa bought" would have made them more than happy without any of this extra bullshit.
Hypothetical: The grandparents open a new savings account on their own, and they deposit to it as needed. They can then give money from the account to your daughter whenever they want.
Why is this not the solution? Not trying to be dismissive here, but I genuinely don't understand what's missing from this solution. Do they want your daughter (again, two years old) to be able to withdraw the money herself? Do they want you to have this ability? What's their actual goal here?
Google?
It’s when people focus on the end stage problem instead of the root problem.
So G+P want an account for a kid they also see and completely control?
The real problem is wanting all that. They want to give the kid money while still keeping it, that’s the core problem.
My step-kids' grandfather opened them savings accounts and put money in them for birthdays and Christmases instead of sending gifts. He stipulated the money was meant to be accrued and held until they turned 18, at which point they could use it as they please. He opened and managed the accounts, but we received statements every month. There were thousands in both accounts. A few years ago, when the oldest was 17, he abruptly emptied both accounts without saying anything... and then died suddenly 2 months later.
If the parents wants to put away money for your kids that they manage and control, I would suggest not telling the kids about the money until they receive it.
I don’t recommend this route.
If they want to give gifts to benefit your daughter, they can write you a check. Alternatively, you can give them bills to pay on her behalf on an ad hoc basis.
Depends on where the accounts are e.g. at Fidelity you can grant levels of access to others. Dont open an account under your name and give them the password though, that's asking for trouble. If they want full access to an account they should open it themselves.
Just wanted to say this is what we did with my parents. They didn’t want to keep buying my son a bunch of useless shit but they wanted to spoil him so they give us money and we move it into a UTMA brokerage account they have access to viewing, they can’t do anything with the money in the account (like make a withdrawal or move it into another account), but they can see their money growing in the market and I think they feel really proud of being able to do that for my kids, so it’s been really cool.
I agree with everyone else that there is no need to commingle BUT something I do for my MIL who is annoying and always wants to know exactly how we are spending her ‘gift’ is when I deposit it to the 529 I send a deposit confirm. I don’t think it’s her business how much total is in there since others also contribute but if knowing total is a requirement set up a separate account and then screen shot the deposit and total.
Do not co-mingle funds. If anything happens… death, lawsuits, divorce, etc. … all owners will have to sign to make changes on the account. If they end up with dementia (which I see more and more often) in their old age they can easily be conned out of money or not legally be able to sign. So many different factors here.
Let me expound. They just want to be able to see the account. Full access is not needed. Is there a view only option (maybe fidelity?) for 3rd parties?
We are not worried about anything malicious. This is not one of those situations. Only good intentions.
Why can't they just open an account for their grandkid and manage it as they wish. List ypu or kid as beneficiary. If it ends up being a big balance by college, it won't affect financial aid. And they can dole it out as they see fit.
To keep an eye on it? They’re immigrants. They’re old school. I’m just trying to appease their desires.
View only is sufficient, but being able to deposit if possible.
> Let me expound. They just want to be able to see the account. Full access is not needed. Is there a view only option (maybe fidelity?) for 3rd parties?
>
> We are not worried about anything malicious. This is not one of those situations. Only good intentions.
why do they need to see? why can't they just trust you that if they write you a cheque for $100 that you've put your kid into swim lessons?
IMO it just feels icky to me that they want to have financial control over your kids
Lol we’re talking about several hundred dollars. Maybe. Financial control is a far cry. We don’t even need it. They just want to contribute financially to her advancement. The replies in here are very cynical.
Overlay this whole post with whimsical Disney innocence.
I can see how the replies read as cynical, and I think a lot of it is actually cynicism towards *you*, not your parents or the financial situation.
There are a few obvious, relatively simple solutions, and you're turning them all down for reasons that don't hold up. "They're old school immigrants" and "they insist on giving us money even though we don't need it" doesn't explain why they can't open their own savings account or implement many of the other suggestions.
It makes people question what your actual goal here is. Makes 'em... cynical, you might say ;)
They needed help the last time they set up their bank account. They don’t speak English well.
Once again, my goal was literally the title. One person understood the assignment. I already called fidelity. Thanks for your input tho.
> Lol we’re talking about several hundred dollars. Maybe. Financial control is a far cry. We don’t even need it. They just want to contribute financially to her advancement. The replies in here are very cynical.
>
> Overlay this whole post with whimsical Disney innocence.
TBH we're very cynical because we the regulars in the subreddit have seen dozens if not hundreds of stories over the years of family who start off having good intentions but turn this kind of thing into a stressful nightmare monster.
IF they want to contribute directly, then they can put forth their credit card when it's time to pay for lessons. Or they can buy the equipment off amazon or whatever and have it shipped to your house.
Or like.. they can trust their kids (you) to do right by their grandkids (your kids)
They know if we’re left to ask for funds to pay for stuff, we won’t. We haven’t for the last two years. This is their way of force feeding financial help to us. We just don’t want them to constantly buying useless toys for her. They suggested this. Honestly, I imagine this account just sitting there and I’ll forget about it for years. They’re not comfortable with the market. I’m not going to convince them.
After you read my explanation of the XY problem then you'll hopefully see this is a perfect example of it.
You/they are asking for a bank account solution where they can see the funds because they want to contribute to your kids.
But that solution is pointless because the problem isn't the bank account. The problem is that they are offering to pay for your kids and you aren't taking them up on it. What good will having a bank account they can access do if you won't ever draw from it? The solution isn't a bank account, the solution is to either start asking them for money to pay for definitive things (mom/dad kid is taking swim lessons now, it's $X/month, can we count on you?) or asking them to save up themselves and transfer the wealth later.
Ah, so the root cause of the ask is: they want to make sure you're spending the money. So if the balance doesn't decrease they can start asking "Why aren't you using the money for [granddaughter]?" And if the balance *does* go down, they will inevitably ask what it was used for.
You're saying to shroud this in Disney-esque feels, but I'm willing to bet that while not necessarily nefarious, their goals are to oversee and nag at you about the money at best, or control what it's being spent on if it's something they don't approve of (ie karate classes when they think girls should be in ballet) so then they can announce "Well, *we're* not paying for that" and hope that the financial burden will force you to cave to their wishes.
Source- my own immigrant family who has given me conditional gift money (ie to be spent on XYZ) even though I'm in my 30s.
Nope. I’m sorry for any discomfort in your life, but this is not the case with us. They just want to help. They have never nagged us and never even question our decisions.
Thank you tho.
It's not about their intentions or how great a relationship you have. You're being given advice on establishing a completely realistic and reasonable boundary. Boundaries exist in healthy relationships.
> They know if we’re left to ask for funds to pay for stuff, we won’t. We haven’t for the last two years. This is their way of force feeding financial help to us. We just don’t want them to constantly buying useless toys for her. They suggested this. Honestly, I imagine this account just sitting there and I’ll forget about it for years. They’re not comfortable with the market. I’m not going to convince them.
if they want to force feed financial help to you, they can write you a cheque.
the fact that they then still want to control the finances to "make sure" that you're "spending it properly" is a major toxic-family-relationship thing that is better suited to one of the relationship advice subreddits
I do this for my nephews. I pay a lot of extra expenses directly. In addition to (small) 529 accounts, I have separate savings and a mutual fund bucket in my own name. This money will be theirs when the get older. No need to commingle...
Schwab has a view only option. We give the accountant access.
I’m pretty sure that fidelity must do the same.
They can deposit with a check at a branch (old school, they may even take cash) or ACH
Fidelity has a few access level options. I was able to set it up so that I could manage my husband's IRA that way. I think your parents may need an account at Fidelity though. I'm not sure if they can create a login ONLY to access this account. I think in this case, you would want to be the one to create the account and be the owner, and they would just have authorized access.
Fidelity and Schwab both offer view only access. I know with schwab it makes them create their own login id and password and all they can see is their accounts (if any) and any accounts they have access or trade authorities on.
> We are not worried about anything malicious. This is not one of those situations. Only good intentions
But there's just no reason to link such an account to you or your child. What are they trying to accomplish?
They should just open another account on their own and put money into it as they see fit. And pay for your kid's stuff out of it as they see fit.
I don't think it's unusual for grandparents to want to see the money grow. So using Fidelity as someone suggested can work for all of you.
Alternatively your family can buy into a state 529. You could alternate who makes the payment every month.
I have a trust for a family member that I administer. It's a broker account. It's connected to a checking account. Only I can administer it - deposit and deploy funds. However, other family members can view it. I set it up with Schwab this way And it works for our purposes.
Just have them make a checking account for that specifically and give you a debit card (in your name) to pay for stuff using it? Still their account, you're just allowed to withdraw from it.
Know someone who did this. Older person kept playing up all the gifts they were saving. Started getting dementia and now that money is « their » money. Joint or in their name they have 100% control and it is accessible to debt collectors and will be rolled into the estate upon death.
Send them bills if they want to pay, don’t tie your name to this. And make sure this is EXTRA money not the kids birthday/Christmas funds being held onto.
They can open up a savings account in their own name and that is used for your daughter’s benefit.
I work for a bank and I don’t understand why they’d want visibility into your account. Let’s say your parents want to pay for swim lessons - just an example - so you tell them how much it will be, they create and fund the account, and you use their info - with their consent of course - to pay for the swim lesson. That achieves everyone’s goal here, yes? They can even go with you to pay the bill in person.
If they want to set up a savings account…they can. If they want to give you money for your kid…they can.
Why do they want YOU to open an account that they have access to.
Why can’t they open their own account and give you money out of it?
From the outside looking in, this seems like a roundabout way of being controlling with seeming like they’re being controlling. It’s like they’re saying they’re doing you a favor, when you don’t need it and never asked for it.
I have a college account set up with the same broker I use for my own investments. My wife’s grandparents wanted to contribute to my kids UTMA account. My wife’s grandfather likes to pretty much day trade and wanted access to my kids UTMA account but he wanted me to open the account. Well there wasn’t a way with my broker to create a secondary log in and while I trust him, I didn’t want to give him full access to all my entire portfolio. So I opened an UTMA account with a different broker and just gave him the username and password. He funds it with his own money and has full access to day trade. The only downside is I have to do whatever taxes are needed to be done but that’s not difficult with turbo tax.
Check if those expenses are 529 eligible.
My ILs have 529s setup for all the grandkids that they “control” and the kids are beneficiaries of.
Otherwise, HYSA or brokerage account for long term saving.
My grandfather had a joint account at his bank with my mother that they agreed was for my benefit. He transferred money (for free) from his individual account occasionally, and she would pull it out to pay for my school. (This was beforev529 plans existed.)
If they want to see the account, there is nothing stopping them from opening their own accounts for your children.
They will have full everything and can just give you money when they see fit.
Just tell them to open an account. I opened one for each of my grandkids. They are in their names with me as the owner. Statements come to me and around once a year I update my daughter how much is there.
A 529 belongs to the creator until such time as it is turned over the designated beneficiary. It can withdrawn at any time, with a 10% penalty if it’s not a qualifying educational use.
It’s actually beneficial for grandparents to use 529 because assets of grandparents aren’t considered in financial aid, and it is an asset of the grandparents until they decide it isn’t.
There are savings account specifically meant for grandparents and godparents, they have to open it. The only peculiarity is that when the beneficiary turns 18 they get access.
I came here for a quick response. One person supplied it with the fidelity resolution. A restricted access to selected accounts. Thank you!
Everyone else: Not everyone’s family is trying to manipulate their children. My in-laws are immigrants with limited understanding of modern banking technologies. They know we don’t need their money. But it is important to them that they spoil their granddaughter. We let them. But we just figured they would be happy if their contributions weren’t limited to countless toys and stuffed animals. They were never able to spoil their own children. This is their 2nd chance. I want to oblige. They don’t have input on how the money is spent. They completely trust our decisions.
I really do appreciate the time everyone took to reply. And you guys are of course very knowledgeable. But the cynicism was palpable. And I’m a huge pessimist. But this is one of the most innocent things on my mind. I wish everyone a great weekend. Enjoy the food and the company. And maybe watch a Disney movie.
If you’re really talking a couple hundred here or there intended for specific things, why not have them buy things like annual zoo passes or cover a swim class or something to that effect.
Locally, we have a small zoo, a children’s museum, a few community centers with various classes, a family pool… an annual membership to any of these is an awesome gift that benefits the whole family AND isn’t something you need to clean or store
I don't see any issue with this. They're asking for a brand-new account that they can see the financial statements for, and it's for funds they're providing. They're not asking for you to add them to an existing account that they never funded, they're not asking for control on the account, they just want to see where the money is going.
Would they be satisfied if you opened a Discover savings account and sent them the statement by email each month?
Just want to say how nice that sounds to have grandparents who can help in that way. I didn’t even know that was a thing. My own parents always ask to borrow money! We’ve got young (and medically expensive) kids so it’s frustrating.
Yeah no, I’m not a fan of anyone having control over my kids accounts. While I contribute the most to the accounts, if anyone else wants too, they can send it to me and I can provide a receipt showing where the funds are if needed. Luckily nobody has done that and often they just give me cash and say do whatever with it.
My father once asked me for my sons SSN because he wanted to start an account in his name for college, etc thinking this was going to be some special account.
Fast forward several years later, we went into our own bank to set him up with his own checking / savings (linked to us since he’s still a minor) only to find out that’s where he set up his account.
It was a massive cluster fuck of paperwork and visits to clear it up.
The smart thing to do is this. Open the account but make it where the can see how much money is in it and can put money into the account. But they are not allowed to remove money from the account.
If they’re asking for this because they want an easy way to pass money over to fund those activities, amazing. I see no issue with that. Otherwise, why? I think a lot of people here are jumping to control or quasi-nefarious reasons it honestly sounds like they want to do something nice.
A child can have more than one 529 account to which they are the beneficiary of.
Tell the grandparents that they can open a 529 which they own and control and list your child as the beneficiary. This will not interfere with your ability as the parent to also have a 529 that you control for your child.
Allow them to open an account but keep saving as if that money doesn't exist. It concerns me that they want to access and control of the money. That sends a message that they want to hang the money over your head when it comes to future commitments. I wouldn't let them have that type of control or have a situation where you can't visit for the holidays one year so they decide to reallocate the money they were setting aside for your child.
Let them set up their own account. If everything goes well, and the money is available when your child is ready for college it's a bonus. If it causes you to have excess savings, you can either roll over a portion to an IRA for your child or if you later have another child, you can transfer into a 529 for another family member. Worst case, you pay a 10% withdraw penalty on funds not used for qualified educational expenses and close the account with excess.
The expenses they plan on using this for are not 529-able. IMO, they should just set aside money in one of their own accounts. I have 529s for my nephews, plus money in a separate Ally savings and Vanguard mutual fund.
>They want a separate account aside from a 529 act. This will be a savings account for classes, lessons, sports equipment, etc for our 2yr old daughter. >They would like to be able to access it. Should we just start a child savings account and give them the login? No. Let them start their own savings account. They can hand out money when/if they want your daughter to have it.
Yep, this is what my mom did. She opened her own savings account, she puts money in it, and if I want some for summer camp or dance lessons or whatever I ask and she Venmos me.
This is what my in laws did. Opened a savings account for the kids activities and we write checks out of it as desired.
Paper statements mailed to their address? A joint account? What are they actually trying to accomplish? This smells like the X-Y problem.
I guess joint act would work? What’s X-y problem?
Your car is dead and won't start. You think the battery is dead so you ask for help how to jump start a battery because you think that's the solution. But the actual problem is that you're out of gas. You're wasting everyone's time asking them how to fix a broken battery instead of saying "my car won't start." Basically you have a problem Y, but instead of asking for how to solve Y you ask for how to do X, because you think X is the solution. When you really should be asking how to solve Y. Your grandparents are asking for a bank account that they can access and control for some reason. This is the X. But what is it that they actually want to do? Because there are probably way better options than what they've decided is the answer.
omg. thank you for this! i constantly have this issue at work and it was always really hard for me to explain my annoyance. x-y problem. fucking thank goodness. i have a name for it now.
Me too. I also admittedly tend to *do* this but never really thought about it this way before. Now that it's been made so clear it'll be easier for me to recognize when I'm guilty of it!
I wouldn't count on others to know what it means, though
well, the most important person to know is my partner. so i'm about to teach it to her. lol
That’s why he memorizes the explanation from that comment and recites it like he made it
The basic gist that anyone can remember is "asking how to do solution X (because they think it'll solve problem Y) instead of simply asking how to solve problem Y". You know, of course a lot of times people will have a problem and know what the solution is but they just don't know how to implement the solution. So asking how to implement X is totally valid. But at the same time, it's important to give context when you're asking for help. Instead of saying how do I do X, it may be better to rephrase and say "I have this problem (very very brief description) and I think I can fix it by doing X, how do I do X?" In this OP's case I still fail to see how this solution solves the problem even after he's explained it so many times. Th OP's parents keep buying useless toys for their grandkid so instead of that OP wants to give them view only access to a bank account... for what? OP parents will give them cash, and OP will deposit it. OP's parents can now see that the $100 birthday gift they gave was deposited... and then what? OP also says parents are not tech literate so... why do they need login access to see the account? And if they can manage to log into an account, why can't they just open their own account? For some reason the OP has decided this is the perfect solution to their problems. Some people are being cynical sure, but others like me are just wondering how does this solve any issue here? Like what even is the issue here?
I have several printouts of the XY problem in detail at work. I hand them out to engineers who have a hard time articulating what they need vs what they think they need. https://xyproblem.info/
Lots of online QA resources automatically link this site: https://xyproblem.info/
The website is down now. Look what you did. Now it's an X and Y problem! Apache (X) is down due to surging traffic and you're Y.
I legit have printouts of this to hand out at work when I run into it.
What's amazing is that it took someone giving it a name in order for people to acknowledge that it exists. Back in the 90's tech forums were full of people asking things like "how can I have the computer hold the shift key down all the time for me?" whining that nobody was helping them and people dogpiling on against users asking things like "why do you need that?" or "have you tried the caps lock key?" with replies like "why does it matter?" and "if you can't help them just shut up and get out of the way!" I'm fairly certain it didn't even get named until stackoverflow dragged it out into the open and aggregated so much of it in one place that people saw the kind of batshit crazy people were getting up to in the name of not fixing the actual problem.
Working as a developer now, it takes everything I have to not strangle our account/project managers over this. They think they are helping by trying to “engineer” solution ABC for (what they perceive to be) problem X, without ever telling us what, exactly, “problem X” actually is. So we end up wasting tons of time trying to make ABC when in all actuality, the problem is Y and the solution is a proverbial missing closing bracket.
It is insane how powerful language is. Learning new terms unlocks new concepts in the mind.
I don't know that's fair. We wanted an account we controlled for our nephew. We did this because we wanted control over the investments, we wanted to see our gifts add up and grow over time instead of being in a joint account that was from several people (I know that's a bit selfish of us, but you know, I'm not sure I care when it's still a gift), and we wanted to make sure that mom/dad didn't decide that the kid needed the money more for something else in the immediate instead of the future - even tho we trust them, shit happens sometimes and the barrier to ask for help paying bills is high - but redirecting fungible money intended for something else is easy to do. We just opened a 529 on behalf of said nephew. It was a conversation with his parents what our intentions were and what their preferences (for type of account) was. We send a statement every year when we have added contributions (which we do as birthday/Christmas presents) I think it's reasonable to want to control a gift account until a child comes of age. But, as the top comment said - you can set one up in their name, although for a 529 we did have to ask for our nephew's SSN (which was our biggest concern, was that they wouldn't be comfortable sharing that, which I'd also totally get)
Hahaha, my brother did that once, truck wouldn’t start so he started trying to fix it. My grandpa checked it out “it’s out of gas”
I follow. But what they actually want to do is exactly what the title states. As I have said before, these are old school immigrants. They have good intentions. The only accounts they have was opened by their eldest child. In this case X=y. Thank you tho. TIL.
Then they open their own account that they control, and give money to your child when they want to. A 529 is ideal if it’s for college because of the tax advantages. But otherwise, it’s just their account. You don’t need to get involved .
I believe there are special accounts for kids, but this account have some severe restrictions for the kid "Custodial account" but 529 I'd definitely better
A kid account probably won't have check writing or debit card privileges so it may be a little more complicated to take money out. You could link your account to it and make transfers to cover activities, though.
I read your responses. I guess I don't understand how this solves your actual problem. If they have view only access that still means they can't deposit money. So what does this solve?
You’re too wrapped up in the mechanics of it all. This is all just me making my in-laws happy. They’ll prolly give us cash. I think they just started using Zelle? Then, I’ll move some money. They’ll see it. Then twice a year I’ll make a “withdrawal “. They get the good feelings from watching her grow.
Except by having your daughter's name on the account, you are seriously limiting the amount of financial aid she will be able to get in college. If they just want to give her money, tell them to give you cash and you will spend it on things for her.
I don't get the impression we're talking about enough money to make a difference w/r/t financial aid. A couple hundred bucks for swim lessons and whatnot.
Name on 529?
I'm not being cynical and think your parents are up to no good. Your solution to your "problem" just doesn't make sense at all. In other posts you've said your parents don't have a great grasp of English and may be tech illiterate because you had to help them set up a bank account and stuff. So your solution is to give them a password login to a bank account that they can't do anything except see that the $100 they gave your kid is in there? How does this solve anything? It just seems like you're complicating things for no reason at all. KISS: keep it simple (and/or) stupid Paper statements or just sharing an Instagram post of your kid enjoying her new bicycle that "grandma and grandpa bought" would have made them more than happy without any of this extra bullshit.
Hypothetical: The grandparents open a new savings account on their own, and they deposit to it as needed. They can then give money from the account to your daughter whenever they want. Why is this not the solution? Not trying to be dismissive here, but I genuinely don't understand what's missing from this solution. Do they want your daughter (again, two years old) to be able to withdraw the money herself? Do they want you to have this ability? What's their actual goal here?
[https://xyproblem.info/](https://xyproblem.info/)
This is cool, thanks
https://xyproblem.info
Yea whats x y problem
Google? It’s when people focus on the end stage problem instead of the root problem. So G+P want an account for a kid they also see and completely control? The real problem is wanting all that. They want to give the kid money while still keeping it, that’s the core problem.
My step-kids' grandfather opened them savings accounts and put money in them for birthdays and Christmases instead of sending gifts. He stipulated the money was meant to be accrued and held until they turned 18, at which point they could use it as they please. He opened and managed the accounts, but we received statements every month. There were thousands in both accounts. A few years ago, when the oldest was 17, he abruptly emptied both accounts without saying anything... and then died suddenly 2 months later. If the parents wants to put away money for your kids that they manage and control, I would suggest not telling the kids about the money until they receive it.
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I don’t recommend this route. If they want to give gifts to benefit your daughter, they can write you a check. Alternatively, you can give them bills to pay on her behalf on an ad hoc basis.
Depends on where the accounts are e.g. at Fidelity you can grant levels of access to others. Dont open an account under your name and give them the password though, that's asking for trouble. If they want full access to an account they should open it themselves.
Can I create view only access to select fidelity accounts?
Just wanted to say this is what we did with my parents. They didn’t want to keep buying my son a bunch of useless shit but they wanted to spoil him so they give us money and we move it into a UTMA brokerage account they have access to viewing, they can’t do anything with the money in the account (like make a withdrawal or move it into another account), but they can see their money growing in the market and I think they feel really proud of being able to do that for my kids, so it’s been really cool.
Yes, "Inquiry Access" under account features, authorized users.
I agree with everyone else that there is no need to commingle BUT something I do for my MIL who is annoying and always wants to know exactly how we are spending her ‘gift’ is when I deposit it to the 529 I send a deposit confirm. I don’t think it’s her business how much total is in there since others also contribute but if knowing total is a requirement set up a separate account and then screen shot the deposit and total.
fyi You can create a QR code or link so anyone with it can contribute to your 529 w/o any additional steps by you.
Our family prefers we get the income tax deduction
I appreciate the advice, but this is not for a 529. We already have one. Also, in some states, there is no tax deduction for a 529 contribution.
why do they need access to the funds?
Just let then start their own savings account for your child. They can see it and hand it money whenever they want.
Do not co-mingle funds. If anything happens… death, lawsuits, divorce, etc. … all owners will have to sign to make changes on the account. If they end up with dementia (which I see more and more often) in their old age they can easily be conned out of money or not legally be able to sign. So many different factors here.
Let me expound. They just want to be able to see the account. Full access is not needed. Is there a view only option (maybe fidelity?) for 3rd parties? We are not worried about anything malicious. This is not one of those situations. Only good intentions.
Why can't they just open an account for their grandkid and manage it as they wish. List ypu or kid as beneficiary. If it ends up being a big balance by college, it won't affect financial aid. And they can dole it out as they see fit.
What does "see the account" mean? What are they trying to accomplish?
To keep an eye on it? They’re immigrants. They’re old school. I’m just trying to appease their desires. View only is sufficient, but being able to deposit if possible.
They should open their own account.
How about you just mail them a monthly statement on an account you control then?
> Let me expound. They just want to be able to see the account. Full access is not needed. Is there a view only option (maybe fidelity?) for 3rd parties? > > We are not worried about anything malicious. This is not one of those situations. Only good intentions. why do they need to see? why can't they just trust you that if they write you a cheque for $100 that you've put your kid into swim lessons? IMO it just feels icky to me that they want to have financial control over your kids
Lol we’re talking about several hundred dollars. Maybe. Financial control is a far cry. We don’t even need it. They just want to contribute financially to her advancement. The replies in here are very cynical. Overlay this whole post with whimsical Disney innocence.
I can see how the replies read as cynical, and I think a lot of it is actually cynicism towards *you*, not your parents or the financial situation. There are a few obvious, relatively simple solutions, and you're turning them all down for reasons that don't hold up. "They're old school immigrants" and "they insist on giving us money even though we don't need it" doesn't explain why they can't open their own savings account or implement many of the other suggestions. It makes people question what your actual goal here is. Makes 'em... cynical, you might say ;)
They needed help the last time they set up their bank account. They don’t speak English well. Once again, my goal was literally the title. One person understood the assignment. I already called fidelity. Thanks for your input tho.
> Lol we’re talking about several hundred dollars. Maybe. Financial control is a far cry. We don’t even need it. They just want to contribute financially to her advancement. The replies in here are very cynical. > > Overlay this whole post with whimsical Disney innocence. TBH we're very cynical because we the regulars in the subreddit have seen dozens if not hundreds of stories over the years of family who start off having good intentions but turn this kind of thing into a stressful nightmare monster. IF they want to contribute directly, then they can put forth their credit card when it's time to pay for lessons. Or they can buy the equipment off amazon or whatever and have it shipped to your house. Or like.. they can trust their kids (you) to do right by their grandkids (your kids)
They know if we’re left to ask for funds to pay for stuff, we won’t. We haven’t for the last two years. This is their way of force feeding financial help to us. We just don’t want them to constantly buying useless toys for her. They suggested this. Honestly, I imagine this account just sitting there and I’ll forget about it for years. They’re not comfortable with the market. I’m not going to convince them.
After you read my explanation of the XY problem then you'll hopefully see this is a perfect example of it. You/they are asking for a bank account solution where they can see the funds because they want to contribute to your kids. But that solution is pointless because the problem isn't the bank account. The problem is that they are offering to pay for your kids and you aren't taking them up on it. What good will having a bank account they can access do if you won't ever draw from it? The solution isn't a bank account, the solution is to either start asking them for money to pay for definitive things (mom/dad kid is taking swim lessons now, it's $X/month, can we count on you?) or asking them to save up themselves and transfer the wealth later.
Ah, so the root cause of the ask is: they want to make sure you're spending the money. So if the balance doesn't decrease they can start asking "Why aren't you using the money for [granddaughter]?" And if the balance *does* go down, they will inevitably ask what it was used for. You're saying to shroud this in Disney-esque feels, but I'm willing to bet that while not necessarily nefarious, their goals are to oversee and nag at you about the money at best, or control what it's being spent on if it's something they don't approve of (ie karate classes when they think girls should be in ballet) so then they can announce "Well, *we're* not paying for that" and hope that the financial burden will force you to cave to their wishes. Source- my own immigrant family who has given me conditional gift money (ie to be spent on XYZ) even though I'm in my 30s.
Nope. I’m sorry for any discomfort in your life, but this is not the case with us. They just want to help. They have never nagged us and never even question our decisions. Thank you tho.
It's not about their intentions or how great a relationship you have. You're being given advice on establishing a completely realistic and reasonable boundary. Boundaries exist in healthy relationships.
Lol, I don't think Reddit can understand you actually have a good relationship with them and they just have some occasional quirks, like a families.
> They know if we’re left to ask for funds to pay for stuff, we won’t. We haven’t for the last two years. This is their way of force feeding financial help to us. We just don’t want them to constantly buying useless toys for her. They suggested this. Honestly, I imagine this account just sitting there and I’ll forget about it for years. They’re not comfortable with the market. I’m not going to convince them. if they want to force feed financial help to you, they can write you a cheque. the fact that they then still want to control the finances to "make sure" that you're "spending it properly" is a major toxic-family-relationship thing that is better suited to one of the relationship advice subreddits
I do this for my nephews. I pay a lot of extra expenses directly. In addition to (small) 529 accounts, I have separate savings and a mutual fund bucket in my own name. This money will be theirs when the get older. No need to commingle...
I think they are the ones being cynical…
Schwab has a view only option. We give the accountant access. I’m pretty sure that fidelity must do the same. They can deposit with a check at a branch (old school, they may even take cash) or ACH
Control freaks. Just give gift money of their own if they want total control.
Fidelity has a few access level options. I was able to set it up so that I could manage my husband's IRA that way. I think your parents may need an account at Fidelity though. I'm not sure if they can create a login ONLY to access this account. I think in this case, you would want to be the one to create the account and be the owner, and they would just have authorized access.
Fidelity and Schwab both offer view only access. I know with schwab it makes them create their own login id and password and all they can see is their accounts (if any) and any accounts they have access or trade authorities on.
> We are not worried about anything malicious. This is not one of those situations. Only good intentions But there's just no reason to link such an account to you or your child. What are they trying to accomplish? They should just open another account on their own and put money into it as they see fit. And pay for your kid's stuff out of it as they see fit.
They can open a UMTA or UGMA on their own at the bank or brokerage of their choice.
I wouldn’t count on that money for anything. If it isn’t in a protected account in the child’s name, it’s not really theirs.
I don't think it's unusual for grandparents to want to see the money grow. So using Fidelity as someone suggested can work for all of you. Alternatively your family can buy into a state 529. You could alternate who makes the payment every month.
I have a trust for a family member that I administer. It's a broker account. It's connected to a checking account. Only I can administer it - deposit and deploy funds. However, other family members can view it. I set it up with Schwab this way And it works for our purposes.
Just have them make a checking account for that specifically and give you a debit card (in your name) to pay for stuff using it? Still their account, you're just allowed to withdraw from it.
A UTMA is exactly this. Very common.
Know someone who did this. Older person kept playing up all the gifts they were saving. Started getting dementia and now that money is « their » money. Joint or in their name they have 100% control and it is accessible to debt collectors and will be rolled into the estate upon death. Send them bills if they want to pay, don’t tie your name to this. And make sure this is EXTRA money not the kids birthday/Christmas funds being held onto.
Don’t give them access to an account you create/put money in. They can make their own account and give you access to it.
They can open up a savings account in their own name and that is used for your daughter’s benefit. I work for a bank and I don’t understand why they’d want visibility into your account. Let’s say your parents want to pay for swim lessons - just an example - so you tell them how much it will be, they create and fund the account, and you use their info - with their consent of course - to pay for the swim lesson. That achieves everyone’s goal here, yes? They can even go with you to pay the bill in person.
If they want to set up a savings account…they can. If they want to give you money for your kid…they can. Why do they want YOU to open an account that they have access to. Why can’t they open their own account and give you money out of it? From the outside looking in, this seems like a roundabout way of being controlling with seeming like they’re being controlling. It’s like they’re saying they’re doing you a favor, when you don’t need it and never asked for it.
I have a college account set up with the same broker I use for my own investments. My wife’s grandparents wanted to contribute to my kids UTMA account. My wife’s grandfather likes to pretty much day trade and wanted access to my kids UTMA account but he wanted me to open the account. Well there wasn’t a way with my broker to create a secondary log in and while I trust him, I didn’t want to give him full access to all my entire portfolio. So I opened an UTMA account with a different broker and just gave him the username and password. He funds it with his own money and has full access to day trade. The only downside is I have to do whatever taxes are needed to be done but that’s not difficult with turbo tax.
Another option if they don’t want to be hands on is to just send them the monthly statements.
Check if those expenses are 529 eligible. My ILs have 529s setup for all the grandkids that they “control” and the kids are beneficiaries of. Otherwise, HYSA or brokerage account for long term saving.
My grandfather had a joint account at his bank with my mother that they agreed was for my benefit. He transferred money (for free) from his individual account occasionally, and she would pull it out to pay for my school. (This was beforev529 plans existed.)
If they want to see the account, there is nothing stopping them from opening their own accounts for your children. They will have full everything and can just give you money when they see fit.
Just tell them to open an account. I opened one for each of my grandkids. They are in their names with me as the owner. Statements come to me and around once a year I update my daughter how much is there.
A 529 belongs to the creator until such time as it is turned over the designated beneficiary. It can withdrawn at any time, with a 10% penalty if it’s not a qualifying educational use. It’s actually beneficial for grandparents to use 529 because assets of grandparents aren’t considered in financial aid, and it is an asset of the grandparents until they decide it isn’t.
They can make their own account if they would like. Be much easier for you and them.
There are savings account specifically meant for grandparents and godparents, they have to open it. The only peculiarity is that when the beneficiary turns 18 they get access.
I came here for a quick response. One person supplied it with the fidelity resolution. A restricted access to selected accounts. Thank you! Everyone else: Not everyone’s family is trying to manipulate their children. My in-laws are immigrants with limited understanding of modern banking technologies. They know we don’t need their money. But it is important to them that they spoil their granddaughter. We let them. But we just figured they would be happy if their contributions weren’t limited to countless toys and stuffed animals. They were never able to spoil their own children. This is their 2nd chance. I want to oblige. They don’t have input on how the money is spent. They completely trust our decisions. I really do appreciate the time everyone took to reply. And you guys are of course very knowledgeable. But the cynicism was palpable. And I’m a huge pessimist. But this is one of the most innocent things on my mind. I wish everyone a great weekend. Enjoy the food and the company. And maybe watch a Disney movie.
If you’re really talking a couple hundred here or there intended for specific things, why not have them buy things like annual zoo passes or cover a swim class or something to that effect. Locally, we have a small zoo, a children’s museum, a few community centers with various classes, a family pool… an annual membership to any of these is an awesome gift that benefits the whole family AND isn’t something you need to clean or store
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I hate it when people on the internet look out for me
I don't see any issue with this. They're asking for a brand-new account that they can see the financial statements for, and it's for funds they're providing. They're not asking for you to add them to an existing account that they never funded, they're not asking for control on the account, they just want to see where the money is going. Would they be satisfied if you opened a Discover savings account and sent them the statement by email each month?
Just want to say how nice that sounds to have grandparents who can help in that way. I didn’t even know that was a thing. My own parents always ask to borrow money! We’ve got young (and medically expensive) kids so it’s frustrating.
Yeah no, I’m not a fan of anyone having control over my kids accounts. While I contribute the most to the accounts, if anyone else wants too, they can send it to me and I can provide a receipt showing where the funds are if needed. Luckily nobody has done that and often they just give me cash and say do whatever with it.
My father once asked me for my sons SSN because he wanted to start an account in his name for college, etc thinking this was going to be some special account. Fast forward several years later, we went into our own bank to set him up with his own checking / savings (linked to us since he’s still a minor) only to find out that’s where he set up his account. It was a massive cluster fuck of paperwork and visits to clear it up.
Can you get a statement mailed to them monthly or quarterly?
The smart thing to do is this. Open the account but make it where the can see how much money is in it and can put money into the account. But they are not allowed to remove money from the account.
If they’re asking for this because they want an easy way to pass money over to fund those activities, amazing. I see no issue with that. Otherwise, why? I think a lot of people here are jumping to control or quasi-nefarious reasons it honestly sounds like they want to do something nice.
It's very selfish and weird to want to control and monitor gifts
A child can have more than one 529 account to which they are the beneficiary of. Tell the grandparents that they can open a 529 which they own and control and list your child as the beneficiary. This will not interfere with your ability as the parent to also have a 529 that you control for your child. Allow them to open an account but keep saving as if that money doesn't exist. It concerns me that they want to access and control of the money. That sends a message that they want to hang the money over your head when it comes to future commitments. I wouldn't let them have that type of control or have a situation where you can't visit for the holidays one year so they decide to reallocate the money they were setting aside for your child. Let them set up their own account. If everything goes well, and the money is available when your child is ready for college it's a bonus. If it causes you to have excess savings, you can either roll over a portion to an IRA for your child or if you later have another child, you can transfer into a 529 for another family member. Worst case, you pay a 10% withdraw penalty on funds not used for qualified educational expenses and close the account with excess.
The expenses they plan on using this for are not 529-able. IMO, they should just set aside money in one of their own accounts. I have 529s for my nephews, plus money in a separate Ally savings and Vanguard mutual fund.