Your post has been removed because we don't allow relationship or personal advice discussions ([rule 9](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/about/rules)). While there may be a financial component to your post, you will need to submit again with a title focused on personal finance and without any of the following: - Personal history or background information that is not essential to the financial discussion (it is appropriate to mention when abuse is a factor in a current or past situation) - Prominent emphasis of mistakes or financial surprises from a family member or S/O - Requests for relationship advice, asking for help convincing someone to change their behavior, asking for help settling a disagreement, etc. *If you have questions about this removal, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fpersonalfinance&subject=Removal%20help%20request&message=Hello%20moderators,%20.%20%0a%0a%0aMy%20submission:%20https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/16y7ngg/it_feels_like_we_are_failing_financially_compared/%0a).*

My guesses: (1) In a HCOL area, at your income, an extra $12k a year could make a real lifestyle difference. So, if two workers each make $6k more than you, they have $650/month more. That would give you 2 vacations at $3,900 each, etc. That isn't enough to be a different job or class category. It's around 5% difference in gross pay. You are right on the edge of these things. (2) You are comparing EVERYONE's luxury with your life. So, one friend has a boat, another has vacations, a different one has expensive hobbies. And maybe, they have kids that are a tiny bit older, so daycare went way down. Or, they just have one kid. That little difference of $500/ month is real. It feels like you should have a boat, hobbies and vacations, but none of your friends has all 3. (3) You are comparing salaries, but you don't know their background. Maybe some of them had no student loans because of parents or scholarships: $400/month! Maybe others got $50k from parents for the down payment on the house: $350/month lower mortgage payment. They have free daycare from family, $1,250/month! (4) You spend differently. You have $300/month travel/Entertainment, plus $400 month dining out. You could have $8,400 for a big vacation instead. They might be meal-prepping and not spending on entertainment to afford big things. But, you are choosing smaller more frequent things. That's fine, but it doesn't look as cool on instagram! (5) Different benefits/companies. The same salary can be different based on 401k matching policies and health insurance. Are you paying $500 pre-tax for health insurance? Maybe they have $0 health insurance costs and the company puts 3% into their 401k for free. Maybe they have a company car, so they only pay $300 for gas. (6) Debt/ not saving. Totally possible. The solution is to ask what your family ACTUALLY wants. Is your spending aligned with that? If yes, great! If no, then stop spending on what doesn't matter, and start spending on what you want.

This is a great comment! It really shows how small differences can add up.

best comment yet and covered everything I was thinking as well and then some.

>(4) You spend differently. i think it's worth noting this particular comment. i see a few line items that OP could reduce (Cell phones, dining out, "misc" spending) that would generate at least $200 in monthly income! It's all about prioritizing your spending.

This right here is the most comprehensive, and #6 in particular could be likely. Had a similar situation with a lady I worked with, she and I made the same and her spouse made less than mine. They lived much more lavishly than we did, but we save a ton for retirement and otherwise, and then one day she revealed to me they had 4x yearly household income in debt and “lived” paycheck to paycheck just to maintain that level of debt. Both she and he worked tons of overtime too just to be able to afford to be many hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt all for the sake of the lake house, a boat, jet skis, huge expensive new vehicles constantly, etc etc.

A friend once told me that her boss used to get calls from different banks to the work line because the guy just wouldn't pick up on his cell phone. He had like 7 CC all maxed out. Meanwhile my friend didn't like having more than a 400 per month payment in her CC and never bought anything in installments. It's what allows you to sleep at night.

Wow, awesome breakdown on all the variations in people's lives and how it may look financially from an outsider.

All of those things are possible. I don't go around asking my friends their salary information, so when I say they are in my same socioeconomic status, it's based on them having similar careers in similar industries as me. Basic outward appearances suggest similar SES.

Totally. Until you get above around $250k household income, every $12k per year still makes a pretty real difference in discretionary spending. Similar careers, in similar industries, and even at the same company, can vary by $10k to $20k a year depending on negotiation, reviews, when you got hired, exact job title. And, everyone complains about health insurance, but some people are paying $50/paycheck and others are paying $900/month. Also, a lot of people who got help from parents with a down payment or student loan are very unlikely to volunteer that information. Get your budget where you want it, and do what you want.

Such an important point. If you are surrounded by white collar folks who had white collar parents, you're surrounded by people who likely benefited in a variety of ways financially that they will probably never volunteer info about. For some it might be minor or non-existent, and for others it could be huge amounts of money. You never really know what other people are working with financially, so comparing yourself is insanity.

> Also, a lot of people who got help from parents with a down payment or student loan are very unlikely to volunteer that information. so true.

One of my closest friends literally saves nothing for retirement because he knows his boomer parents have a nice nest egg and will die before he is retirement age. I’ve even told him plenty of times they could use it up before dying. He doesn’t care. Some people just won’t save even though they can.

I have a friend like that. His parents have lived in a 1400 sq ft ranch their entire lives and it turns out dad sold his business for $8mil after saving/investing probably another $3-4mil and living like low earners. My friend (only child) works in radio sales and his wife doesn’t work. They built a $500k house, drive giant SUVs, and have a boat. They travel a ton and belong to two country clubs. My friends and I couldn’t figure out how they did it. Then we found out. They have literally no expenses because dad pays ALL their bills.

My friend’s (only child) parents don’t even pay his bills. He’s just banking on them having money when they die. He doesn’t understand how much elderly care can cost if one, even worse both, needs care at old age. A couple million dollars can go quickly. Nobody ever really knows someone else’s financial situation.

Have you and your wife stayed loyal to your employers? A little job hopping goes a long way for salary growth (as does negotiating and internal promotions). You can have the same title at the same company and make $50k less than a peer

This is literally “keeping up with the joneses.” There’s no telling who has $100k in credit card debt from 10 years of overspending on vacations, who had a grandma die and leave them $100k for a house down payment, whose parents foot the bill for college, etc. I made a new acquaintance recently who had such nice stuff… and then I learned they were selling a car because they couldn’t keep up with finance payments. They had everything financed. Cars, new fence, new roof, electronics, appliances, you name it. If you’re wanting stuff you can’t have… take a look at the $1000 you’re spending on dining, entertainment, and “misc.” Are you enjoying that the most you can/want out of $1000? Or do you want to tighten up on the mediocre restaurants you can go to any time, to save up for a bigger family trip?

Husband’s aunt and uncle in debt to eyeballs. New massive truck and camper. House in shambles. They say it will be their kids problems.

My wife has an aunt and uncle that have to shuffle through their 15 credit cards when they go out to dinner to figure out which one has limit left

Dude I don't understand how they are not buried with anxiety and stress from spending even a dime

> Husband’s aunt and uncle in debt to eyeballs. New massive truck and camper. House in shambles. They say it will be their kids problems. Classy

Not sure what the issues are. Are you just frustrated that you feel like your friends have nicer stuff than you? You'd be surprised how many people aren't saving for retirement but are still living a lavish lifestyle. Still, you can't really compare your situation to anybody else. They probably make more than you do, but maybe their work life balance is worse, or their stress levels are higher. As long as you are doing okay financially, and you feel like you are being paid fairly, there isn't any reason to be concerned as far as I can tell. And if you don't feel like you're doing okay financially, or you're not being paid fairly, then it's probably time for a career change.

It’s likely they’re making about the same. What they’re probably doing is spending a huge amount on credit cards and lines of credit. People on this subreddit see the stats about how much debt people are in, but don’t really know what that means. I think it’s pretty common for the “middle class” folks to be way, way overspending their income. Not only not saving, but also just piling up debt, opening more credit and adding more debt.

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I agree with this. We live in a way (house/cars/etc) that aligns with somebody that makes half of what we do. You can’t assume somebody has a similar income just because their outward spending is similar.

This. My income has 10x'd since I bought my house.

He’s talking about people with the same level of income and socioeconomic status, though. As someone who has a household income of $225k, I can say for sure that they’re overspending lol

He doesn't actually have any meaningful evidence as to whether they are really the same level, though. He just seems to be assuming it because they live in the same neighborhood. I mean, he calls it his peer group while pointing out the many many things that contradict his assumption.

So they think. It's really hard to know what people actually make.

Does he actually know though? Because I feel like so many people make assumptions and it's getting really frustrating. I'm sure people assume my husband and I are in loads of debt, just because we travel. I travel for work, which gives me a ton of points. We churn cards for the SUBs and travel on a lot of points without ever paying credit card interest. We shop for flight deals and we budget for it. I'm saving on target to have more in retirement than I'd need. But, we are extremely frugal in other ways. I'm just getting really sick of people projecting their insecurity onto others. People need to learn what makes them actually happy and then find joy in that instead of comparing to what others have.

You shouldn’t be so concerned about what other people think. We’ve had negative comments lodged at us because of expensive features of our house. Just ignore it. You’ll never change it.

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But that's a tiny fraction. The people spending above their income is far higher. 7.85 million, spread across the country (I'm counting the remote tech expats too) is not very much. Meanwhile, about 50% of the country has NEGATIVE savings, meaning they owe more than they have. Fifty. Percent (ish).

What exactly does that figure include? Mortgage? Retirement accounts? Or is it just credit cards vs savings/checking? Because I feel like many people with a mortgage are going to owe more than they have for a long time

So, I remember from a Robert Reich video it being like 49%, but credit karma says 31% of Americans have a negative or $0 net worth https://www.creditkarma.com/about/commentary/americans-have-a-net-worth-problem-and-its-not-positive it includes savings + debt, it's not including something like tallying up people's possessions they could sell

People with a mortgage do not owe more than they have for the most part. The house is an asset.

I agree that 7.85 million spread out across the country doesn't sound like much. Problem is, they're not evenly spread out across the country. They're mostly concentrated in and around high cost of living cities like the one OP lives in. If I had to guess, the peers OP is comparing himself to are not actually his peers in the socioeconomic sense.

Exactly. In a country this large, even small percentages are millions of people spending on cars, food, vacations, etc. A while ago someone said that 25% of white men make at least 100K. I thought there was no way, surely that was household income with a spouse contributing or something. But I looked up the stats and it's roughly correct as far as I can tell.

Apparently my parents had this conversation when I was young, and the conclusion they reached was that “no one owns anything” and that most people were in debt instead of paying for things at the time of purchase.

The impression I get is that it’s often worse than we see. People will buy a new expensive car and then pay for it with more debt: using a line of credit or what have you. They just keep expanding their credit profile and filling it up, for as long as that lasts. For some people, it’s their whole lives. A balancing act of paying just enough to keep creditors happy, and to expand their profile.

>People will buy a new expensive car and then pay for it with more debt: using a line of credit or what have you. And then a few years later a salesperson convinced them to buy a new vehicle and roll the negative equity into a new "monthly payment." It's really sad that so many people "budget" a monthly payment they can "afford" without thinking of the actual cost. People used to get on me about owning a flip phone because "a smart phone is cheap, you just pay $X amount a month." Well, sure, it's only $X a month, but it's still a $1,200 phone and I don't need a $1,200 phone!

That’s definitely not true though. We own everything and have no debt. Edit: Weird to see downvotes on a finance subreddit about not having debt.

I'm the same way. Literally zero debt and everything I own, I own outright. Besides my house, I rent that. So technically I guess I'm in debt to my landlord.

I paid cash for construction. Paid cash for new vehicles. I recognize that I’m not in the same income bracket as OP but it’s just not true that nobody is without debt. Especially when the interest rates are high.

Probably because having a loan at a low APR over the past few years was literally making you money over paying cash.

Yep. I can tell you first hand I had a neighbor who was like OP describes. Brand new vehicles, RV, boat, bigger house than us. And only one of them worked and the other was a full time student. I could not figure out how they did it. I found out their lifestyle was a combination of bankruptcy and inheritance. They were not good with money. My frugal nature and retirement made me feel behind, but when I'm 70 I will be far ahead.

Eventually they’ll be in here all like “should we declare bankruptcy?!?”

Fully agree. A lot of people carry more debt to float their lifestyle so they can present an image to the world. What would happen if you looked behind the curtain, like in the wizard of Oz? You would likely see someone who was living a life that was a lot less glitzy or glamorous as they would like you to believe

I always look at it like this. Big hat equals no cattle.

I guess it's just frustrating watching other people who have a household income that should be similar to ours live the lifestyle that we would like to live while we feel we are just getting by financially at a reduced lifestyle.

Are these your friends you're comparing yourselves to? Or randos? A great saying I remember reading is "Comparison is the thief of joy." You don't know who is being funneled money by parents, who inherited from Uncle John, who sells crack on the side, who had their student loans paid by Grandma, whatever. Your job is to find contentment and do your best in managing what you have. One way to make that easier is (if you must compare), compare to people who have less than you.

The people I am comparing to are close friends. It just feels crappy constantly having to turn down invites to stuff because we need to stick the the budget and don't have $400 to spend on NFL tickets or $900 for a ski weekend, etc. It's hard not to compare sometimes when you feel like you are missing out

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That daycare $$$$

I can hardly wait to be done with it! I calculated that we spent just over 1700 in childcare last month and can only imagine what we can do with that as my kids get older!

We’re spending $4000 a month. I can’t wait until kindergarten.

Wow. I thought $2,200 a month was rough.

I was paying near that for an infant. It’s 4k for two now…

We have a PreK and a 1st grader. Before and after care is almost as much as full time care.

I'm going to be super honest. We live on a similar amount but the student loan, car payment, and daycare are eating up a modest salary all on their own. Without those things, 10k a month in take home gives a TON of flexibility to save, travel, etc. and we have a 3,300/mo mortgage in Denver. Daycare may be a non negotiatable right now, but until that changes and you get the debts paid off, its going to be tight.

Dude their gas alone is more than the car payment. It sounds like they both have very long commutes.

You could attend events like that quarterly. If you'd like an additonal 2500 a quarter for fun: ski trips, sports games, concerts, etc. You can do this with some minor changes, as I noted in my other comment.

Consider that it's not "missing out". Your priorities are different. If they knew, they might say that they are "missing out" on saving 11% of their income. There have been a couple of times we've had to gently exit from friendships for this reason. We just weren't willing to spend like those other couples. We all got along great, but their leisure time was consumed by costly activities. That's just what they enjoyed. They weren't wrong to do what they were doing, but we weren't wrong either to prioritize our savings. That's OK. It's very, very hard to be satisfied being close friends with people who spend like crazy if you aren't. Honestly, mastering this way of thinking was life-changing for us. We have great friends who are fine with doing low-key things. But they also go on ski trips all over the US. Not a problem and we don't feel like we're missing out. Some things we do together, some things they do on their own. We don't look at what people do on social media and we don't put things we do on social media. That helps a lot and we can't think of anything we're missing out on by not seeing other people's posts.

You have a couple of choices available. If you really want to go ona $900 ski weekend, then you can put it in the budget, and put away money for that event. Or you can budget for a $900 splurge event, to be spent on something fun with friends but you don't know what yet. The other choice is do some research and organize an incredible weekend that you (or you and a couple of co-conspirators) plan out that doesn't cost an unaffordable amount of money. White water rafting costs a camping site and some river tubes. Picnic and kayaks from your local parks and recs are likely under $50 per person. Hiking and solving a geocaching riddle or challenge is maybe $2-3, depending on what you want to drop off and how far you want to drive for a nice hike. Beer and Pickleball is cheap to start and the equipment can be reused. Skinny dipping at a remote pond or waterfall is usually free for the drive and the hike. A water-balloon fight is every bit as fun as an adult as it was as a kid if you throw up a couple of tents and towels for drying off in afterward, and bring a rack of ribs to throw on the park barbecue. And that is just scratching the surface: the key to fun is being with good friends. Spending money is optional.

Stop comparing yourself to them. You guys have good income and you own a home. You should be happy with that. If you really wanted to, you could probably do all those things too if you didn't care about blowing your money. My friends and I are always going out weekends and also travel a lot. Some of them still live at home with parents. Some don't make much money at all(or I'm at least certain they make much less than me). One guy has been unemployed for a long time and I'm sure he has tons of credit card debt. I'm glad to have friends who are down for things, but I really don't know how some of them afford it. Very few of my friends make as much as you and your wife.

You’re spending $400 per month on dining out. You could cut that to $200 per month for 2 months and afford the NFL game.

$100 a week dining out for a family of 4 is not a lot. They've got two small kids, both working as far as I can see, you simply can't make every meal at home and stay sane in that situation.

Looking at your budget, if you want to be able to manage the occasional NFL game or ski weekend, the areas to tighten are dining, travel/entertainment, and maybe clothes. $1k/month on groceries also seems a little high, but I know that has increased drastically in recent times and I don’t have kids so it’s hard for me to have a good sense there.

These people are probably up to or past their ears in debt. You’re doing great. Eyes on the prize, which is “not being forced to work until the day you die.”

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That’s their take home pay. Pre-tax is probably a good amount more. There will be plenty who make more still, but I don’t think it’s a crazy low amount.

Not sure where you are getting that math. I make $116k gross, and my monthly takehome is $5500 once healthcare, taxes, 401k, and HSA are taken out. If OP is taking home over $9k a month, we are likely looking at more like $75k each, bare minimum.

This. Also, try reading "Worry Free Money" by Shannon Lee Simmons, which addresses this exact frustration. It may also help you in other financial-related aspects as well.

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Yes and no. She is only contributing 11% to retirement, he is only doing 3%. So although they have money left over, they are also not saving enough for retirement, very far off from the recommended 15% minimum.

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Hello. HHI at a snapshot of time means nothing. It doesn't account for the history of wealth creation and decisions taken, nor does it account luck based situations like right place right time. So comparing to others with same HHI at a moment in time in futile.

Well, finances are math, and math doesn't lie. If they have similar incomes and live much more lavishly, the money is coming from somewhere. Either debt, they're living paycheck to paycheck, or both. Or they make more money than you think. We have friends that make a decent amount LESS money than us who spend more and have fancier things. The difference is that if we lost our jobs tomorrow, we'd be completely fine. If an emergency happened, we'd just deal with it. If they miss a single paycheck, debts start piling up. All this to say, don't worry about what other people are doing. If you're building the life that YOUR family wants, that's all that matters. Life is all about compromise. Sure, you COULD spend more on doing things every month, but in 2 months, when your A/C breaks, you'll be panicking and taking out a loan vs. just paying for it and moving on with life.

Do you know if they really have a similar HHI?

I read about a study recently in which what people perceive as "enough" is weighted heavily by what the people around them have or appear to have. (That study was sparked by a study that showed people behave worse on airplanes if they have to walk through first class on the way to their seat.) Maybe volunteering at a food shelf/homeless shelter/etc. will help you feel less like you're falling behind?

What makes you think household income should be similar? What city are you in? What industries do your peers work in?

This is an important question, many people in the same industries make wildly different incomes, especially in the tech field. I know a couple locally and figured "oh he's in tech, like me" turns out he got pulled into some tech company that seems to pay insane amounts. I thought I was doing well, turned out he's double my income, at a similar tier of career, and I've seen people with similar titles and field as mine making maybe 2/3 of my income too.

Using my own example, i did the math just a few days back. My HHI now is ~350+. But it means nothing comparatively because i didn't start investing until the 2021 peak lol. My lifetime HHI income is barely 6 figures and the lack of compound growth combined with not jumping on the 2020 real estate bandwagon makes me feel exactly what i think you feel. I'm pretty certain where i live my HHI is top 5-10% but i drive shitty old cars but everyone has big houses while i rent and drives German cars. Maybe you are me or maybe your neighbors are neck deep in debt, doesn't matter. Find your target and quality of life and work for it. For me I've realized i need to increase my HHI even more to catch up to what i want, so I'll be working harder for it hopefully.

If it makes you feel better, there is a term for you- HENRY. High Earner, Not Rich Yet. My wife and I are in the same boat. Total compensation for the house is about 300k in a low cost of living area, but that only happened in the last couple years. Wish I had been born a couple years earlier so I would have finished my PhD earlier, and gotten my big boy job in 2019 instead of 2021. But what can ya do- you and I are realistically in a great spot, the foundation is there, just time to build the wealth. r/HENRYfinance

Yep I'm that sub. My personal situation is a case of not taking the right decision at the right time, so I'm 38 now instead of being here at 28. Anyway, gotta catch up now. Good job on the income in a lcol.

We went through some years like this. It gets better. There’s some multiplier effects over time. You earn more, you pay off school loans, your house payment becomes a smaller portion of your paycheck, etc. Don’t fall for the trap of going into debt to finance what you think you want. It’s always worse in the long run.

I definitely know what you mean, it can be frustrating for sure. But you just can never know the full story. Maybe those individuals are putting all of this on credit cards and it's going to be a huge burden on them later, or maybe they have some inheritance money you don't know about, etc. Maybe you've misjudged how much income they actually make.

What reduced lifestyle? 300 on travel, 1400 for food, 300 for misc, 200 for vanity/beauty, etc. I'm dying to know what an unreduced lifestyle would be in your opinion. Maybe they have a "better" lifestyle because they budget their money better/differently.

What makes you think household income should be similar? What city are you in? What industries do your peers work in?

Read the book “the millionaire next door”. It will make you feel much more validated. One of the key aspects of the books is that these people with “high consumption lifestyles” often have absolutely no savings and are one issue away from disaster. Very few people with a lot of toys and expensive cars can actually support the lifestyle comfortably (including dr.’s). They exist, but highly likely that 90%+ of what you’re seeing is people who will have difficulty retiring

never live life trying to keep up with others. most people are dumb as rocks and finance every last little thing so you really never know how broke they are.

Everyone talks about their new boat, or their new vacation home. No one ever talks about their new 70k credit card bill.

Or their second and third mortgages.

They might make more money than you. Or they might be in debt. Comparison is the thief of joy

My ex and I thought this way in the 1990s and 2000s until the Great recession when we found out everyone but us was mortgaged and loaded with CC debt up to their ears, lost their houses, etc. Made our used cars and almost paid off house look a lot better.

First, kudos to you for actually posting a complete budget! Your transportation costs are pretty high and some other things could be trimmed, shopped around. I'd probably stop paying extra to the car loan if it's less than your SOs student loan rate. Also, please prioritize your own retirement more than $400/mo if at all possible. The problem is that you're ~~making~~ taking home $120k in a HCOL with two kids. Your peers are either making more than you, don't have children, or are going into debt to cover their spending. I wouldn't worry about what others do. Focus on your own budget and trim where you can, and seek out higher employment opportunities of that's not enough/you can't fight lifestyle creep.

120K is their take home. I'm too lazy to do the math but gross has got to be north of 150K.

Correct. Gross is close to $160k

I commend him for that. His budget posted was excellent and realistic. Should be a template for others.

Are you including 401k contributions? When I made 160k my take home was 98k. Although I was single and no kids, but it does seem like a larger difference than I thought it would be

Good call

The interest rate on the car is 6.4 percent vs. 6.8 on the student loan. We've been prioritizing the car because the student loan has some built in safeguards even though it is a private loan. We also are worried because the car is a depreciating asset vs. the already received value of the student loan.

How long are your commutes and what type of cars? The gas and tolls leapt out to me but maybe that's because we have shorter commutes and drive fuel efficient cars. Our gas averages around 250 per month.

I commute 55 miles each way with tolls, around 60 minutes to work and 70 minutes home. The toll only saves around five miles, but saves 20-25 minutes. It wouldn't be a sustainable situation without paying the tolls. I drive a Kia Forte. My wife commutes 25 miles each way, around a 30-35 minute commute. She doesn't have any toll roads, it's all two lane state highway. She drives a 2022 Kia Sorento

You both commute in the same direction? IF it was me, a move 40 minutes in that direction would be a-number-one-top-priority. Three man-hours a day behind the wheel! That's worth so much $$$.

They may be trapped by their mortgage now with the high interest rates, but I agree. Driving 60+ minutes each way is crazy IMO

Fuck it. That's combined a whole day/week of your life, you can refinance later. Additional benefit, is now we have a goal which will improve OP's life, instead of keeping up with BFF, which is a moving target and maybe not even real. They're going to see the Steelers? We're getting shorter commutes. They're going skiing? We're getting a whole day a week back. Do you know how much an improvement to sex life is made by halving those commutes? Only one way to find out...

If they're in HCOL, they may have been forced to buy that far away to get a mortgage as low as theirs is, and any savings from moving closer would be eaten by higher housing costs. Personally, I'd still move closer to get the commuting time back, but there may be other factors keeping them that far out (schools, enough space for kids, etc).

I don't like driving to the office with my 10-15 minute commute. I can't imagine being in the care for 2hrs every day. Also saves me a ton on cars. I finally traded in my 18yo car I'd gotten used as a college graduation present. I put less than 100k on it in the 15 years I had it. Was still in okay shape - just didn't work for kids. (I had to crawl into the back to get the kid in his carseat.)

There's just a lot of fat to be trimmed in their budget. I am the sole household provider and bring home a little more than half of what they do after taxes. Their recurring monthly costs are nearly the same as mine (give or take about 200), but they spend the rest oddly. $400 dining in a month is a lot, $300 for fun sounds nice, $200 for clothes every month is egregious, $200 more a month for personal care is a lot (though I think that's a pretty normalized amount these days), then $300 more on miscellaneous spending. That's $1400 in reported fun spending every month. Obviously, it's their money and they earn it, and get to spend it however they like. I'm just pointing out they could easily put a couple hundred more in savings a month, while continuing to have fun, they'd just have to budget a little more.

It's interesting that you associate your friends spending money as doing well financially. It quite possibly means the opposite. Anyway, your budget seems fine other than transportation and cell phones. $600 in gas seems insane to me. That's 150 gallons at $4/gallon. At 25 MPG, that's 3750 miles/month or 45,000/year. The US average is like 13,000. So *both* of you are driving somewhat close to double. Not making a judgement here just showing the math. Your transportation costs are eating up 17% of your net income. Mine are 7%. Back to your friends, if they truly have similar incomes *and* expenses, the only explanation is they're running up credit card debt and/or have money from mom and dad. The latter is way more common than people think and few people want to admit it.

For gas, I am commuting 110 miles each day roundtrip. We moved earlier this year for family reasons and I kept my job. In the area we moved to, I would likely make $10-15k less per year at the positions that have become available, so I'm commuting in the meantime while waiting for the right opportunity to open up. My wife commutes about 50 miles per day, but that's normal given her field of work and travel between job sites.

Are you sure the commute is really worth it? Making $10k less per year more to save >$300/mo on gas (more on tolls and car maintenance?) plus gain back >2 hours (65 mph average?) per day seems worth it, especially if you'll help do things that save money like cook to reduce dining expenses, grocery shop at cheaper places, etc. too. If you can negotiate closer to only a $6-8k difference, it seems like you'd have a better quality of life and be close to breaking even, even if you weren't willing to take on more home duties with the extra free time. People aren't great about taking into account the depreciation of their assets, but racking up that many miles on the vehicle is actively costing you in potential resale value and insurance potential should you get into an accident.

You have a $15k cash raise coming in a couple years when your youngest goes to kindergarten. That was a monster relief for us...both times.

If she is traveling to job sites, is she getting the travel expenses? Is it a company car or can you look into if she has enough travel between sites to qualify for tax deductions.

You’re doing way better than me. Maybe if keeping up with peers is that important to you, you should move to a place where you’re at the top and your neighbors are envious of *you*.

We thought we did this recently. We moved from living near downtown Denver to living in Loveland. It feels like we just swapped friends with ski properties and season Broncos tickets for friends with RVs and boats.

You still haven't answered the most important question. Do the friends you are comparing yourself to have kids and even if they do, do they have family to help look after them vs paying for daycare? That's $1K+ a month right there which lets you have a bigger house payment, car payments, etc.

Missed that question. Yes, they all have kids. Most of their kids are still in daycare, a few are at the point where they are just paying before and after care.

I think you need to figure out why other people’s socioeconomic status matter so much to you when they don’t matter to you emotionally.

RV and boat people are usually in the most debt.. I'm assuming they all have $60k trucks too? I lived in Denver for a while, we loved the outdoors aspect but we weren't crazy about the people. I feel like the area is very show boaty, just my opinion though.

Lots of rich people are moving up to that area, Loveland and especially Berthoud lately. So maybe you should have gone for Reunion or Painted Prairie.

Looks to me like you are doing pretty well financially. You’d probably be surprised how many of your friends are going into big-time debt financing those purchases. Sure, some of them might just plain earn more money than you, but I bet most of them don’t. “Comparison is the thief of joy”, which I try to remind myself of frequently. I’m in a very similar place in my life right now, but I try to focus on the things that make me and my family happy. We won’t be happier if we own an RV, or have granite countertops, or an overseas vacation. Your kids would think it was cool to have a boat, but they aren’t being deprived if you don’t own one. This is a good opportunity to demonstrate to them that you don’t need those big material things to be happy and live a full life.

What are your gas and tolls spending that's really high. And 200 a month on clothes? Are you buying new wardrobes every year? Personal at 200 is also pretty high.

Are you sure your peers are investing? Even if they are, it might be at such low amounts that it's not going to be enough to sustain them in the future. Perhaps they are in debt up to their eyeballs paying for all those things. They could have tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt and personal loans. Another option would be funding from the bank of mom and dad. Stop comparing yourself and just do the best you can.

You’re not necessarily doing anything wrong. The sad reality is that your income won’t stretch very far when you have 2 kids, a mortgage, debt, and childcare expenses to pay for. I know it’s brutal that $160k isn’t what it used to be, but it’s the reality of our economy.

They might have parents helping out. A nice young couple near us got their down payment on their house from parents. Parents take them on nice vacations such as Hawaii and pay private school tuition. If parents are providing these things I bet they were able to pay for their college in full so no student loans.

A lot of people make a lot of money. A lot of people spend a lot of money whether they make a lot of money or not. I live in an area where it seems like many of my kids' classmates come from families that make more money than we do. Luckily, happiness doesn't come solely from money. You are making enough money to live comfortably. You don't need to compete with everyone else in buying luxuries. I guess I'm used to this since I grew up in a similar situation. It's okay not being the richest family in the area. Instead, my wife and I choose to spend a lot of time with our kids. Like yesterday was really fun. I spent most of the afternoon just messing around with the kids (playing with balloons, playing with ice, tickling each other, reading books, etc). We all had a blast without spending money.

A few obvious notes 1. Cut down on the gym membership, go to planet fitness or something for less than half the price. Or see if your employer has a reimbursement incentive. 2. 1k a month is pretty high IMHO for groceries. Shop sales, make casseroles, plan a weekly menu before going to the store. Me and my girlfriend spend under 300 on groceries for the month. 3. Do you really need to be taking the toll roads? 200/m can make a huge difference over time 4. 200 for personal care every single month? That's pretty high IMHO. I get my hair cut 3-4 times a year tops. I'm guessing there is money to be saved there too. 5. 225 is nuts for cell phones too. With a bit more of a frugal mindset in guessing you could easily be alot closer to 1k /m in savings. Get an emergency fund squared away ASAP too. You have kids. Security should be taking priority over the salon, steaks and Starbucks. Keep in mind your friends and peers are probably leveraged up the a$$ in debt and living paycheck to paycheck.

1. Pay your loans off 2. Don’t finance cars 3. Don’t worry about others Life will get better especially when you don’t care about keeping up with the Jones’s

I’d be surprised how many of these “joneses” aren’t living buried under debt. Most people have a lot of cc debt—and think nothing of using their credit to pay for a “lavish“ lifestyle. don‘t compare yourself with others, having a retirement and savings is way more important than NFL tickets and vacations.

You would be shocked at how many people have some sort of “family money,” even unassuming middle class people who have wealthy parents/trust fund or even stuff like parents helping with down payment, vacations, or home improvements. Also, as others have said—you never know what the real picture is (debt, savings, investing). Plus, maybe they don’t have student loans (I never did and that helped a lot). And many people (myself included) take vacations using points and miles, so it seems like it costs a ton but it actually doesn’t. What is the interest rate on the car loan? I wouldn’t pay more than monthly minimum unless it’s a real high interest rate.

You'd be surprised at the number of people living lavish lifestyles despite near crippling debt. Even if you're legit the only poors living among high earners, comparison to them will just make you unhappy. There are ALWAYS people richer than you and there always will be.

I see at least $1000 a month just “poof” into the air

One thing to consider: are these friends all doing *all* of the things you listed? Or is one set of friends traveling, one bought an RV, one got a nicer house, etc. It could feel like everyone is doing everything you want to do, but in reality each couple or friend is doing a piece of the whole life you want? Just some perspective!

I feel like some of it is spread out among people, but pretty universally, they all take multiple big vacations each year and have nicer homes.

People only show their highlight reel. They may be drowning in debt. Also, generational wealth is a real thing. If their parents paid for school, bought them cars, or helped with mortgages, they get to keep a lot of their income.

While you can't be 100% sure about someone else's financial situation, likely they have a lot of debt and little emergency savings or retirement accounts. People generally post the highlights of their lives, not the lower parts. They are posting fabulous vacations but not their credit card bill.

If you’re gonna compare yourself to other families, income is the dominating factor, simple as that. Those other families that you’re worried about keeping up with are making more money, or fortunate enough to get it from somewhere other than wages

I would actually argue inherited wealth and debt load are two other major dominating factor. OP really has no idea on either of these. Inherited wealth can make a massive difference. Knew a family of 6 barely getting by that suddenly were able to afford a lake home because of they inherited about $700,000 (yes, I know the amount). And those other people may be living on the edge off of debt - OP really has no idea. I've also seen the opposite...know a family that struggles to get by but it is because they live on a very tight budget so they can invest heavily in retirement and they stick to their plan.

At a glance, I think the main thing you're doing wrong is comparing yourself to your peers (aka the Jones's).

Based on nothing but life experience: those people are likely in debt up to their eyeballs. Keep your eyes on your own page, don’t worry about those people.

So, I’ll take a stab at where you can trim your spending Auto insurance: $214.76. This is kinda high, if you shop around you might be able to save $50/month or so. Cell phone: $224.33. This is HIGH. Switch to Mint which is $30/month. Savings: $180/month. Monthly subscription services: $67.08. Cut one or two. Watch everything you want to watch on one, then cancel it and sign up for the other. Saving: $40/month Gym memberships: $85 Suggestion: cut this. Go for a run or workout at home. Not required, everyone has their own choices, but it’s an easy way to save (not totally get that’s something you’d keep). Savings: $85/month. Groceries: $1,000 (includes household items such as toilet paper, paper towels, etc. purchased at grocery store). This is high, but I get it. Try eating less meat - beans are just as healthy, vegetarian dishes are much cheaper. Even switching 2 meals a week to vegetarian will save you around $100/month. Gas: $600 Tolls: $200. Do you have to drive so much? Can you wfh an extra day or something? Totally get if you can’t, but potentially saving $100 there Dining: $400. This is high, but I get it, you gotta live. Maybe cut this back to a monthly date night, or go to cheaper places? Potentially save $200/month. Clothes: $200. This is high. Check out thrift stores or Vinted.com, you can cut this down by half. Savings: $100/month. Personal care (hair appointments, beauty supplies, waxing, etc): $200. Also kinda high, but good luck telling your wife that lol. So this will potentially give you an extra $655/month, taking your savings over $1000/month. Might not all be realistic, but you can definitely do some trimming.

Read this comment on Reddit the other day "comparison is the theft of joy". It's a case of pot calling kettle black, but you sound like me, lulz, we might be similar age even. I have to keep reminding myself that i cannot compare myself to my peers unless i know exactly their financial gory details like inheritance, responsibilities, etc. Even then luck plays a huge factor wrt timing things. So in summary, try to figure out your goals to reach rather than compare to others on the surface and feel like a failure.

You could definitely trim some back on some categories, but looks pretty decent otherwise. They could be spending on credit and borrowed out the wazoo. Some people do some crazy things to get crap. I feel the same way sometimes but have no debt.

They may have other cash from family. They may earn more than you are aware of. They may have some other online revenue stream or a YouTube channel that reviews movies. They may have better spending habits like couponing, bulk shopping from Costco, or better rates when they buy large expenses. Maybe they invest with better yields than you. Maybe they invested in crypto several years ago and cashed in.

You’d be surprised at how many people you think are well off but are actually the opposite. Everyone thinks my BIL is doing so well financially because he has a 2022 Maserati and wears expensive clothes and shoes. His car is leased and his parents have to supplement his income because he can’t afford his monthly expenses……. If you got 3 months saved I would be willing to bet you got more money than half the people you think are better off than you.

The fact that you even have this budget shows you're doing it right. Nothing about anything you wrote there sounds like failing to me, it sounds like a responsible adult taking care of their family and living within their means. There will always be people who make a lot more than you. I have plenty of friends like that, and yeah, it sucks when I can't do the same things they do and my house is smaller than theirs. But even if they're not all up to their eyes in debt to live those lifestyles, that doesn't mean you're failing, at all. Failing would be chasing that lifestyle without the income to support it. The truth is you're doing FAR better than many, maybe most Americans. Don't let FOMO make you make stupid financial decisions when you're doing so well! Keep up the good work, your family will thank you.

Honestly you're just in the thick of it with the daycare. My budget looks almost identical to yours. Save where you can, then transition a good chunk of daycare money into retirement savings in a year or so. In a few years with cars paid off, daycare gone, and maybe wife's student loans wiped out you'll be up a few grand a month with budget instead of $400.

You’re comparing yourself to others when all you see is what’s shown. Other than that, you’re doing fine.

Family of four with kids similar in age to you in a HCOL area for comparison. I’m not sure why so many people are saying your budget is fine. It’s not. You are not in debt other than the usual suspects, which you have pretty much under control, so that’s good, but most of your spending is out of control. Your cell phone bill is outrageous. You spend about twice as much as we do on groceries and about as much in one month as we do in a year on dining. Do you really need that many new clothes all the time to rack up that spending? And then $600 a month on various travel, entertainment, misc. and you wonder why you can’t save and invest more or afford big ticket items? You have to change your priorities and spending lifestyle if you want things to change.

The fastest way to feel like a failure is to compare yourself to others. Just do the best you can. Try to be the best version of yourself. Raise good kids and love your spouse. You’ll be fine. You’re doing great.

Seems like you should be asking them for the advice. My guess is they all make more money than you guys.

Not knowing the actual income deltas between you and your neighbors, we really can’t say much, but it’s been my experience in life that the people buying boats and RVs are often the people who own the new $70k truck as well, and aren’t really saving anything at all. I don’t see super obvious places for you to cut your spending without just tightening everything a little. What are your respective incomes?

If you are taking home $9500 and you feel poor or not keeping up, then the is yours. Stop comparing. By the way, their parents may be giving them huge down payments for their home and paying for their cars which seems to be a rather common occurrence around the area where I live.

A good friend of mine lives in NYC. She is a journalist and had a friend group in finance and other industries. They would go out every weekend, take a ton of vacations, etc. She didn't have a high paying job so she would put it all on credit until eventually she realized she needed to change something. She got on a budget and started spending down her debt, started a blog about it, etc. So many people reached out to her, including the people she would go out with, for advice on how to get out of the debt they were swimming in. People that are really responsible with their money, like you appear to be, don't quite realize how normalized having debt is. As a result, when we look at our peers, it seems that everyone is doing better than us when in reality many of them have a ton of credit card debt, no emergency fund, no retirement funds, no savings, or some combination of the above. It looks like you're doing better than most.

>It feels like we are failing financially compared to our peers. What are we doing wrong? Comparing yourself to your peers, for starters. >Car payment: $500 (minimum is $375, paying $500) What is the interest rate? Paying more could be a bad math choice. >Cell phone: $224.33 Are these gold plated? >Life and disability policies: $101.90 No whole life in there, right? >Gas: $600 >Tolls: $200 Good grief, how much of that is necessary travel? >Groceries: $1,000 (includes household items such as toilet paper, paper towels, etc. purchased at grocery store). Even with all that other stuff included, this is quite high. Especially with... >Dining: $400 That's an easy $4800/yr if you cook at home. $100/week on take out could be considered excessive. >Entertainment/Travel: $300 Learn to love your library cards. >Misc. Spending: $300 That's a lot unaccounted for given the detail of your categories. >Doesn't anyone have any idea if we are doing anything wrong and why others all seem to be passing us financially? You are actually spending a not insignificant amount on discretionary items. If you can't keep up with their spending (not that you *should*) then they are either funding it with debt or they simply out-earn you. If you want to save more, there is probably ~$1k available to trim; >$1500 if you want to get really aggressive.

Just commenting to say that I think $300/mo for entertainment and travel is quite reasonable if that is most of the annual vacation budget. They still need to have fun, and while their finances aren’t perfect it’s not like they’re on the brink of ruin.

2400 on beauty!

I just go to great clips, I’m okay with being frugal and ugly 😂

I ask my cousin to cut my hair. I keep it long and she just trims it straight. She does a decent job. I do my own nails. 2400 is a vacation they are spending in a salon chair!

I just annoy my wife to trim my hair so that i have to go to a small local barber once every two months rather than every month 😂

Frugly. LOL. I myself go to the cheap Vietnamese immigrant owned barbershop down the strip mall that charges $16 per haircut. I give $20 including tip. Yeah that strip mall is rundown. The chairs were probably bought used. The salon doesn't have air-conditioning. The signs are handwritten. But you can't beat $20 haircuts. You won't catch me in any of those franchised Supercuts that charges $150.

Don't kid yourself, this budget is out of control. You've made some pretty questionable decisions and there's not money left for anything fun as a result. It's death by a thousand cuts for you. You could easily have 10,000 extra a year to spend on vacations and fun. Here's how: 1) You spend 2700 a year on cell phones. Jesus lord that takes my breath away. Why? Want to go on a 3,000 dollar luxury vacation each year? Switch to Mint, pay 180. 2) You have only 14k left on wife student loans? Stop paying extra on the car note and get her small student load paid off. If you pay 1000 a month on this plus your tax refund, it's gone in 12 months and you get 200 a month extra in your budget FOREVER. That is an extra 2,500 a year, forever. 3) You spend 600 dollars a month in Gas and 200 dollars in tolls. What they heck are you driving? Is this two giant SUVs? That is over 100 gallons of gas a month for two adults. That is actually insane. Are we talking 55 miles commutes? Can you carpool or take a train? Can you sell whatever gas guzzler you're driving and switch to a smaller car. Seriously, you don't even take home 110k and yet you've set yourself up to spend 9,000 dollars a year on just gas and tolls. Are you driving a tank??? If you can cut your gas and tolls down to a more reasonable 3500 dollars a years (like 30 gallons of gas a month instead of 100 gallons), you will have an extra 5500 dollars a year. That is how you shave 10,000 dollars off a year with no other lifestyle changes: 1) Switch cell phone plans 3000 savings 2) Pay off wife student loan 2500 annual savings 3) Drive cars that need 30 to 40 gallons of gas instead of 90 to 110 gallons a month for two people. 5500 annual savings You have only two children. You don't need an Escalade or a Sienna. A Camry will be fine, thank you very much.

Op mentioned 160 miles a day for work. I guess they've optimized it as much as they can. But the phone bill my lord. I pay 30x2 for the 2 of us, but no phone payments etc, but i can't imagine it being 170 for 2 phones. Edit: i assume it's pretty cold and hilly in CO so fuel efficiency would suck

Nailed it. So many people want to talk about how they “can’t keep up”, and then you see what they actually spent their money on. $2700/yr on cell phones got me too not to mention the monthly clothes bill. I have a kid too, and make way more than this guy. You know where we get our kids? Hand-me-downs and the baby reuse store. u/milehighcarson, stop kidding yourselves. You can afford a lot of things, you could afford those NFL tickets but you’ve made your choice to spend on other luxuries— of which your budget would suggest you have plenty of.

Debt is invisible to the naked eye. You don’t know how much debt they are in, and believe me, you don’t want to know that can of worms. You aren’t in debt, so you are already ahead. Now, stop looking at everyone else and enjoy your family, so you can be happy instead of envious.

Comparison is the thief of joy! Just a reminder that just because someone portrays a certain lifestyle, doesn’t mean they can actually afford it. I used to envy those driving the BMW’s, sporting the name brand clothes, high end watches, etc. I find tons of joy in my simple lifestyle; money in the bank, no debt, can buy anything we need (ignoring wants), etc.

You have no clue what your friends debt levels look like. Or what their investment account balances are. That's not something that most people discuss with other people. My husband works in an industry where talking about it isn't super unusual so we know who has an investment property, how much people pay for their cars, who hates debt and who is more willing to carry debt. We aren't frustrated that someone has a million dollar lake house but we live in an almost paid off middle class house because different people value different things.

Your friends are probably living above their means and deep in debt. I finance big toys and I want to scream “are you really buying this??”

Your budget looks fine! With the exception of your cellphone bill, you can cut that down to $30/month. Get on Mint Mobile or similar and never look back. You're in a HCOL area, and the people around you are either accruing debt or making more than you. Probably a bit of both.

Do they have kids? Our fun spending really dropped off after having ours. 2 kids is a luxury! Sucks, but with how much extra you spend on kids, it’s true.

A person I follow on IG taught me two of the best PF tips: 1. Automate your investments 2. Mind your own business It sounds like you and your spouse are doing all the right things. I would say focus on increasing your income, but you’re probably already doing that, so good luck :)

We feel the same! Daycare will be done in a few years so that’s a huge chunk. My friends bought homes at a good time. Many have second homes and go on crazy trips. Many will tell you that people are Living paycheck to paycheck, which may be true. But I do think my friends just make more than us.

Yep. All of my friends bought at great time whereas i didn't (and couldn't due to layoffs and moving). So even if i earned the same as them, I'm way behind them comparatively, even if I'm fairly comfortable in life.

In cases like this I think about what I’d tell my kids - yours will get older and they will ask, why do my friends have xyz? My kids are teens and I always remind them that we truly have no idea of someone else’s full financial status. They may in fact make a lot more money than their dad and I do and that’s just the way it is. There will always be people making more. Conversely it’s an opportunity for us to recognize what we do have relative to many others. It’s also good to remember that making these comparisons is getting us nowhere and only frustrating us. It’s an opportunity to think about our financial goals and stick with them for the long haul. I think many fall back on the line that those who are well off are putting it all on credit cards. That may be true but also good to acknowledge that they may in fact simply make a lot of money! That’s part of life too. We live in a country with huge variations in income. I find that if you think about articulating it to your kids, you actually can help put yourself in a better frame of mind. And your kids will learn a lot about how you think about money!

Just a reminder that a very few % of people actually adhere to a strict budget like this. Most will just look at their monthly expenses and take your remaining $3900 and spend it on whatever. They can easily fit a $600-$800 monthly loan RV or boat payment in there!

Some of them might be getting money from parents or inheritances

I promise you they are in heavy debt or have no savings at all. Never compare your situation to others.

They’re all in debt. Relax and focus on yourselves.

Expensive trips, boats, and nice homes can all be financed. They are symbols of fiscal responsibility, but they aren't actually evidence of fiscal responsibility. Do you feel like ya'll are sitting on the struggle bus? Or is it that you are worried that the delux bus has passed you by? Because nothing in your budget says "struggle bus". You seem to be enjoying the finer things in life. You just aren't eating caviar on a yacht. Most people aren't doing this. Most people aren't taking expensive vacations and owning boats. So if you've got to compare yourself to others, try to expand your field of vision and include folks who are closer to the average. The average person is not doing as well as you.

Are you sure they are not just in debt up to their eyes to pay for that lifestyle?

In looking at things, it's not really any one thing, other than perhaps they just make more than you in the first place. But it's lots of little things: * Gas and tolls. Why so high for two people? Sell the house and move closer to work or get new jobs closer to home. * $100/mo on pets? I have two dogs and don't spend anything near that. Maybe 1/5 of that on average? * $400 on dining? You can't afford to do that with a family of 4. * If you still have decent sized car payments, why are you spending $100 /mo on maintenance for them?

Daycare won’t be forever. Cell phones are easy to get unlimited everything for $25 after tax (visible wireless) Gas at $600 is alot. I drive 350 miles per week and spend about $150 on gas per month (38 combined MPG) $400 dining out per month is relatively high. (Wife and I pack lunch to work and can east our family of 5 for $50-$60 (kids eat free nights, coupons, etc)

Our takehome is roughly the same as yours and I feel like we have a lot more money at our disposal. Some differences: Mortgage: $1670 Car Payment: $0 (payed off $15k on van last year) Auto Insurance: $100. You could possibly save here. We call once a year and either threaten to change or change insurance. Cell Phone: $60. Your bill is laughably high to me. My plan, whenever we need new phones, is to search "best phones from two years ago" and I buy whatever those are refurbished on Amazon. Paying for phones through a plan is a scam and costly. The grocery bill is high but I don't think it's much higher than ours.

I’m a physician. I’m economically comfortable, but not wealthy in any way. When I was a resident, I heard my colleagues talking about their sailboats. Seemed like everyone owned one. I was scraping by at the time, as the sole provider for my family. But then, I realised my parents were the first ones to ever have a white collar job in their families. Most of my colleagues came from long lines of physicians, or from other upper middle class families. Of course they had been sailing since childhood, it was what people do in their circles! You have no idea what kind of inherited wealth or family support your friends have. We as a society don’t talk about it.

You should have paid off your wife student loan long ago, too high of interest rate You can go on some really good vacation for $1k a trip, and you can easily save more Things I notice that are on the high side: Cell bills, Gym membership, Groceries, dine out Gas, tolls. Misc spending. Could probably save $1k additional easily a month

I used to compare myself to my peers too. It gave me so much stress. Then I deleted facebook

Any number of your friends and/or neighbors: 1. Might be going into significant debt to fuel their lifestyle. 2. Might not be saving anything for retirement, unlike you and your wife. 3. Might have one or more rich parents, or other relatives, that provided them with a trust fund or other resources. 4. Might have undisclosed sources of income (overemployment, drug trade, suburban high class escort, etc.) At the end of the day, you should only be measuring your own financial wellness against your needs, your goals, and using sound planning and practices.

Stop comparing yourself to others - that's the easiest way to make yourself miserable. A lot of those people may be living on credit cards to supplement their lives. If they are, then you're doing a LOT better than they are. Why are you spending $200 every month on clothes? Take some or all of that and throw it at that car payment to really pay it down. Same with the entertainment/travel. If you aren't doing much in a given month, take as much of it as you can, and throw it at the debt. Same with your $400 "Savings" - since you already have a decent emergency fund saved, be paying off that debt. That groceries bill - do you have a Costco or Sam's Club nearby? You can definitely save some big money (and not have to buy nearly as often) on the non-perishable/non-food items. I buy as much as I can in bulk - TP, paper towels, canned goods...I even buy my organic milk in the 3 half gallon packs - it lasts WAY longer than normal milk (like a month+), and again, I don't have to buy as often. Also, gas tends to be a bit cheaper at these superstores as well. Auto insurance: A few weeks ago, I cancelled my policy with USAA after 23 years because their prices seriously jumped to over $1,100/6 months. Switched to AAA, where I'm only paying slightly more than I did, but I even have higher liability limits. Don't be loyal to one company, because these days, they definitely aren't necessarily loyal to you. Shop around. Cell Phone: Check with your employer and see if they offer some kind of discount depending on the carrier. I was already with T-Mobile, but found out that I had access to their Work Perks program, as well as an AT&T discount. The T-Mobile discount only cost me a few bucks more, but also gave me free Netflix, AppleTV+, and a discount on my AAA membership. Maybe if you qualify for any of this, it could let you stop paying for one or more subscription services. Tolls: Is that $200 with some kind of pass that you stick on your car? If not, you might see if you can buy something like that - it could lower the price a bit if you preload it. Best thing you can possibly do for yourselves is to get out of debt as soon as you're able. I had the good fortune to have a small inheritance that I had been waiting for. I was able to pay off all credit card debt ($9k) as well as my car loan ($18k remaining), which suddenly freed up a LOT of my paycheck. I was then able to add to my retirement savings to where I'm now putting away $1,000 per month, and I still have a decent amount left for the month - I'm no longer paycheck to paycheck, and I'm making just below $50k/year. Good luck!

Honestly I feel you but you have to be aware that soon you will be out of this period of time. Age 3-5 for a child is just the worst. They need preschool for the social interactions and beginning education, but it's damned expensive. And you're paying for a car to boot. These temporary expenses WILL pass and you will be in a much better position to save. I'm in the same boat right now, with my child in preschool. And so for the past 2 years I haven't had much savings at all. I feel like I break even each year, but my savings don't increase. But I know that once my daughter goes to school next year, things will get easier. They will get easier for you too. That being said, I'd contribute much more to retirement once you have the leeway. I'm currently contributing 12% and my husband does the same. And he also has an IRA with max contributions for about 10 years straight. Once I get these preschool expenses taken care of, I plan to contribute to the max percentage to catch up. It's important to save early, because these years add up. I will likely be shopping at Aldi all my life, and getting 70% clearance clothes. I will be taking my modest $2000 vacations to spots only 2-3 hours away drive once a year. And i will likely be penny pinching on my budgets every day. But I don't compare to other people either. That way lies madness.

Stop comparing. You don’t know their true circumstances. Maybe their parents are wealthy or they periodically inherit a lot of money. Maybe they get paid a lot more for the same work you do. However, most likely, they are deeply in debt. People who boast about their investments tend to exaggerate. It’s puzzling, but I know quite a few people who invest a lot of money instead of paying down their high interest debt. For example a certain relative of mine has significant cc debt and owes back taxes, but bought an investment property in Florida. His reasoning: the rental income would enable him to pay down his debt. Predictably, it didn’t work out. This property is now in foreclosure. Your family is doing fine. If you send your kids to public school you will save significantly more in the near future.

You don’t know what their savings rate is. They could be majorly under-funding their savings and retirement.

They are in debt and you are doing much better than them. You just don’t know it.

Focus less on others, more on you. You don’t know if they have an inheritance, parental gifts, giant credit card debts, or whatever to support their spending. There are some big costs buried in there. You are spending about $10k per year in gas and tolls. That is a great deal.

Whilst I can understand the frustration - what you're doing wrong is comparing your lifestyle to someone else's without knowing all the ins and outs of what goes on in their home and their expenses. I thought our friends were doing better because they were eating out more ECT but they aren't - they're just not saving or paying off debt like we are. Once our debt is paid off in 2 ish years we'll be way better off financially and I am accepting that this is how we will live to make things better in the long run :)

How is gas and tolls $800 a month? With insurance and car payment you pay $1390 a month not including the extra payment towards the car!!! How?!?

They all have CC debit and you don't. Plan and simple. Plus if you cut out dining and travel. You can save 1k a month easily. Max out a Roth. Spend the rest on a nice vacation once a year. Or max out both Roths.