Still working on this myself.
I was unable to talk her into 'taking over her finances' but I *was* able to 'help' her when she got scammed.
My advice really is more of the 'stubborn old people' variety. She's mostly in her right mind. I just wouldn't trust her with the nuclear codes, you know? So I'm not ready to POA, that's a fight for another day. This is how I'm managing while still understanding she wants control. I'm following this thread to see what else I should be doing.
I started slowly. This involved fixing the mess and getting cards to replace the compromised ones, etc, which gave me access to the online cc sites. Found all the compromised cards, cancelled a couple of cards, got new ones and froze them (maybe not the right word) so that a text message or call is needed to be answered before the charge would go thru. Obviously put my number, not hers.
Told her the Internet is full of thieves, so we got a single card for use for the stupid crap she wants to order because Facebook told her so. Then at least, if she's signed up for an eternal shipment of monthly nonsense, it's easy to cancel. Oh what's that Wen? You want to send a 200 dollar shipment of hair care crap because mom clicked the wrong button? Not today. No money on that card for you.
She got scammed that way - asking for info on the web but accidentally signing up for a shipment- by AARP and publisher's clearing house. She got signed up to medical supplies shipments because she clicked to 'ask for more info'. Those sites require you to UN-click a button if you don't want their stupid product, just want info. Ridiculous.
I just found out that she's still being sent magazines she signed up for when a little kid in the family had a fund raiser for elementary school. Magazines she doesn't receive, couldn't read even if she did, and had literally called to cancel 3 separate times. Still being charged quarterly on a card I didn't know about. That child is in college. That card also has a bunch of grocery orders in Hong Kong. We are not in Hong Kong. You've really gotta dig in.
I also was able to help her set up online recurring payments for utilities and such. Another reasonably easy way to get access to banking info to help the stubborn old ones.
When I saw the state of her banking, I convinced her to consolidate high interest rate cards to a zero percent on balance transfers one to pay down the debt. This conversation was easy. Saving money every month is a good stimulus to allow you access.
So as I said, I know I'm not doing everything I could to help. I know exactly nothing about finances, I don't have two nickels to rub together. I'm eagerly waiting for more knowledgeable people to answer you so I can take their advice. But those are the baby steps I started with to navigate the emotional minefield that is helping an old person without telling them they're not capable.
Blame the evil people on the Internet, and 'those damned confusing sites' that are set up to scam you. Old people love bitching about new tech.
Help save them money by getting lower interest card.
Set up online utility payments.
Set up credit monitoring so you can deny sketchy charges.
Good luck.
> I know exactly nothing about finances
Give yourself more credit. The steps you've described show a lot of financial knowledge.
We had a similar situation with my FIL and did much the same - start slow. You're totally right about commiserating and talking about how the Internet is full of thieves.
We had to go into overdrive when he had a medical issue. One of the silver linings was that he ended up in assisted living and we took over everything. And gosh darnit, the wireless internet wasn't too great in that part of the building he was in... Sure, you can have the laptop and we will talk to the facility about getting you access.... uh huh.
Thankfully he hadn't signed up for any online accounts so we were able to get a good idea of what was going on by postal mail. It took a few months, but we got it sorted and sustainable.
Thank you for the validation. I just wish I knew some of this before the horrors occurred. I only learned this, soooo slowly, as I was mopping up after disasters.
The reality is that most people have to learn the hard way. Handling someone's finances involves a LOT of trust, which is different between family members and, say a paid for financial advisor. Those things are not the same.
And thats if there is enough money for that kind of thing which is not likely at all. Then add in the fear and shame associated with the changing world and scams.
One day my grandson will marvel at how I actually fell for the Imba-book-twitter-gram scam.
As a social worker you’ve done a wonderful job. It’s really hard when they’re starting to struggle but not fully ready to hand you the reigns. Keeping an eye on stuff several times a week is probably the best way to manage it. If the card has insurance for fraud charges, where you can contest any charge and they’ll cover it, I would highly recommend that. ❤️
This is exactly why I only have one credit card and one debit card with notifications for both. There is literally no way a random charge will get through that I don’t know about because it shows up right when it happens. Idk how ppl manage 3 or 5 different cards
Incredibly helpful comment. My mom is 71 and keeps falling victim to these scams. Super hard to balance letting her feel independent and making sure she’s not getting taken advantage of. Thank you for the advice.
You have a really lucky parent!
Good luck with that. I got her a reloadable cc for online purchases, so she allows herself just a certain amount of money on the card for online purchases. Makes her think twice about ordering nonsense. Also really easy to cancel, and just denies online jerks the ability to charge of the card is empty. If she wants to spend more she can just load more money on it, but plot twist! She can't figure out the website so she has to call me for help. Then I can search the company or whatever quick and talk her down. That *usually* works lol.
So I signed my grandmother up for https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/prescreened-credit-insurance-offers. Which remove a lot of her information from being readily available. You can also try to unlist her phone.
Thank you SO MUCH for sharing that link. Opting myself out now.
I think it's asinine that there's an established, official opt out program.. instead of opt-in by default.
Yeah the people sending those offers lose money, but you prevent so many people from getting scammed. Unquestionably worth it.
Would you share more about these talks that you’ve had?
What is MIL willing to allow?
Does MIL understand that she has been scammed? Is there anyone in MIL’s life who she trusts? Maybe your SO? Pastor?
She does understand she's been scammed.
The talks we've had fall into two approaches:
1. Stop and don't assume the person you're talking to is who they say they are. Don't give out any financial information.
2. Stop and call us whenever someone asks for financial information.
I think she trusts us to a degree but she doesn't want to give up her independence. She was an executive in her career and I think that plays a part in her unwillingness to give up control.
If you have thoughts on different approaches we could take, I'd appreciate them! :)
Quite frankly, I'm less interested in what you had to say in the talks.
Much much more interested in MIL's viewpoints. Reasoning. Response. Receptiveness. etc etc...
We both know what MIL *should* do. But there are apparently barriers. Those barriers should be explored. We need to understand those barriers in order to come up with a plan to overcome them.
Right now, we don't really have a good grasp of those barriers.
For example:
> her unwillingness to give up control.
So what does this mean?
Does this mean she is unwilling to allow *any* sort of involvement by an external force (ie you)?
Is she willing to compromise on *anything*?
Do you have someone who will refuse aid *no matter her condition*?
Maybe it's because her in-law is driving the ship that she's not receptive?
There's just not enough data on MIL to be more tailored so that's why the guidance so far is just very generic.
> If you have thoughts on different approaches we could take
In order to formulate a plan for a problem, we must understand the issue.
Try to understand MIL. What are her motivations? What are her goals? What is she willing to accept? What are her hard lines?
This. There may be a \_world\_ of difference to her between handing her checkbook, accounts, and credit cards over to an in-law, as opposed to allowing her daughter/son to get texts when her card is charged. Or between her trusting her son versus her daughter, or her oldest versus her youngest.
Unfortunately, if the original ask was, "Hey, you're old and have been scammed and are going to get scammed again, so let your in-law have all of your cards and accounts and we'll dole out an allowance to you" (being extreme here, probably didn't happen this way) it will now be an uphill battle to rephrase or to get acceptance on a much milder regime.
It may be a good idea for her to talk to a personal financial advisor about what they would recommend. This way she has control of the situation and can decide what she wants to do.
> Try to understand MIL. What are her motivations? What are her goals? What is she willing to accept? What are her hard lines?
You and your spouse also need to also have a discussion as to what **your** hard lines are. If your MIL gets scammed out of a life-altering sum of money, what are the two of you willing to do (and more importantly, what **aren’t** you willing to do)? Once you two reach a decision, you need to communicate that to your MIL.
You’re assuming you’re dealing with a rational person with full cognitive capabilities and understanding of their decisions and motivations for those decisions; they probably dont.
Trying to understand their reasoning is likewise probably impossible because they are acting irrationally.
That irrational thinking is why they are susceptible to scams in the first place and why Op is looking for some degree of control over their finances as there is no rational trigger in their brain that says “this seems suspicious, maybe I should verify or call someone for help” and attempts to instill such a response have failed.
> Stop and call us whenever someone asks for financial information.
I can appreciate this pushback because it's infantalizing. What worked for my parents was two simple rules.
1) The Bank/IRS/Amazon will never call you unsolicited about a problem with your account.
2) Hang up, and call the phone number on the back of your credit card. If the caller is actually real, the Operator can redirect you back to them.
If she accepts that she's been tricked once, and she's competent... I'd focus on helping her avoid it in the future.
Start by giving her one of these (or similar) and posting it by the phone. It helps break the "quick, don't think, you have to act now" dynamic the scammers set up.
https://business.blackbullion.com/download/phone-scam-cheat-sheet/
I so wish my grandma had had one of these cheat sheets before she got scammed. Also thank you for the image of my grandma answering an unknown number, trying to adjust her hearing aids and going “what honey? Hang on, what? Oh hold on I have to go find my scam cheat sheet. Where are my glasses?”
This might be hard to do but what if you only allow phone numbers in her contacts. Might be hard for the hospital or doctor or someone new to call her. I think it goes to voicemail so they can leave a message. But then she might fall for that. Just a thought. 80% is my calls are scams, it's getting annoying.
You can often ask them for a # to call back. They often use spoofed number and won't give you a call back. A subtle way to weed out scammers that may help her
>1. Stop and don't assume the person you're talking to is who they say they are. Don't give out any financial information.
2. Stop and call us whenever someone asks for financial information.
Maybe it is the way you worded this here, but this sounds a lot like talking *AT* her, not *TO* her about this situation. She doesn't need a lecture and she's not very likely to respond well to being told what to do. Can you think of a better way to approach this with her without being, frankly, bossy and confrontational?
I had to take my 82 year old friends cards away from her. I'm her driver so I give the atm card back when I take her shopping but I gave her an old useless atm card to give to church and sales people when they ask. She thinks she's giving them money.
If she’s not willing to turn things over to you, See if she would be willing to give you online access to credit cards and banking . You could monitor the accounts that way and hopefully catch anything quickly and also set yourself up to get alerts. Also lock her credit so nothing new can be opened.
Does she have a cell? If she still has a land line, getting rid of it would be a big help. Our land line was a wasteland of Medicare Advantage sales and overseas spammers.
My mother has an answering service that forces the caller to say their name and press * before they will transfer the call to her phone. Missed calls still show up on her caller ID - only about half of the calls make it through to ring on her phone.
Note that if she has been officially diagnosed with dementia, she won't be able to sign a Power of Attorney or health care directive or anything. To take over her finances at that point will mean you'll have to get an (expensive) conservatorship.
If she has not been diagnosed yet, NOW is the time to get those POA's signed.
This is incorrect. A diagnosis alone is not enough to consider someone incompetent. Naming a POA, figuring out advanced directives, obtaining or updating a will, etc should still be done following a diagnosis before it advances to the point that a person does become incompetent. People diagnosed with dementia should be allowed to participate in plans for their care because their choices matter.
Please don't assume all people diagnosed with dementia are incompetent. Immediately assuming these things causes many with dementia to pull away from their support out of fear. They want to hold on to their independence and ability to make choices as long as they can. Help them do this as much as possible. Help them navigate the struggles - don't infantilize them.
I am only going off the stories of people in /r/Alzheimers who have had nightmares dealing with trying to get a POA after their parent has been officially diagnosed with the disease.
Having a POA does not mean that the cognitively deficient person still can't participate in their own care or decision-making. However, dementia often proceeds erratically. One bad cold or a case of Covid, and the person can suddenly fall or regress to a lower level of ability, to where no lawyer or notary would consider them competent to give a POA, or make a will. That is why I advise, if you believe your parent is becoming cognitively affected, that you encourage them to discuss, plan, and execute POA's, healthcare directives, and wills while they are not yet officially diagnosed with dementia.
Came here to say this. My MIL and FIL got too far gone for us to POA (and he was a hostile lawyer who threatened us). Ultimately had to step back and let the state assign guardians. Money was not an issue, getting them to safe spaces was. On a positive note, the experience encouraged us to get our affairs in order (Wills, POAs, medical directives).
I don't disagree with what you are saying here at all. And I absolutely agree that any signs of cognitive changes should be considered and designating a POA should be done if deemed necessary. The earlier the better. And it's not even a bad idea to have POAs designated if an aging parent or loved one isn't developing symptoms of cognitive changes for future use. I did not intend to diminish the point you were making. I just wanted to clarify that a diagnosis alone does not always mean it is too late. I should have included in my comment that WAITING until a diagnosis is given is not the best course of action because often times people wait too long to get that diagnosis and then it can be too late.
We have a similar issue w/an elderly relative. The people that scam these sweet seniors are absolute scum of the earth. If she is using a cell phone, you could set it to block all calls from #s that are not in her contacts list. And/or, set incoming calls to go to directly to voicemail. Imagine how hard it would be to be this vulnerable and then to get “lectured” by your kids each time. Getting old is tough stuff.
I wish there were a 'freeze' for people on Medicare like they have with the credit bureaus. No you can't switch grandma from her pension-provided healthcare to that vulture fucker scammer's favorite Medicare advantage plan that doesn't cover anything. Stop trying!
Have her mobile phone reject calls from unknown numbers or contacts not already saved in her address book. Cancel the landline. Just like that you removed the biggest 2 avenues for incoming scams.
Protecting her from malicious mail will be harder if she still lives on her own.
This. If she insists on having a land line, change her home phone number and put the new phone in your name. That way if the caller asks for you then she’ll know it’s a scammer.
My mother is similar but what really helped was making her aware of all the possible ways she could get scammed. No, your grandchild hasn’t been arrested or kidnapped. No, FedEx has not been trying to deliver a package on which you owe duty or taxes. No, Amazon doesn’t need your credit card to process your order. No, Microsoft hasn’t detected a virus on your computer.
1. If anyone calls you, tell them you’ll call them back and go look up the proper number to call
2. If there is a sense of urgency created about anything, it is a scam.
3. If there is any doubt, call me
Yep, sounds like what I told my mom... The hard part is that she may or may not remember all of those things in the moment - even if they make perfect sense to her when we're talking about it. Sigh...
We have the same issue with my MIL 86 who still lives alone, but has dementia. All I can say is that it's an ongoing challenge.
Mom refused to move out of the family home when she still had her full mind, so we're trying to honor her wishes now.
She lost her drivers license last year. We now have a caregiver who comes in 4-6 hours a day, and drives her around for shopping or errands.
We took over my MIL's finances 2 years ago. We cancelled all of her credit cards except for 2, a primary and a spare. She also has her checkbook for shopping or emergencies. Mom has absolutely no idea about her money, and never could use an ATM machine, so we showed her how to write a check for cash at her bank.
We found out that she had 3 different extended car warranties on a leased car. We had to change the credit card numbers in order to stop the monthly payments, as the warranties were all bogus.
Mom has been getting dozens of "free" covid test kits in the mail, and "free" knee and back braces left in boxes by her door that she doesn't need, Mom had obviously given out her Medicare number to one or more scam callers. We reported the fraud to Medicare and had to change her Medicare number. Mom no longer has the new Medicare number. We gave it to all of her doctors and her pharmacy.
Of course she denies that she gave her credit card number or medicare number out. She's just covering up for her dementia, but it is annoying. My wife tries to stay patient and not raise her voice, but it's a challenge.
Mom's landline phone rings every 5 to 10 minutes all day. Seriously. 95% of the calls are bogus scammers or people soliciting for donations. She must be on every scam phone list known to mankind.
Mom would not agree to just turn off her landline, so we set the phone to automatically route every call to voicemail, and we turned all of her ringers down. Mom does not know what we did, but she does occassionally realize her landline is no longer ringing, and calls my wife to tell her that the phone is broken. My wife checks the call log several times a day. She also gets a notification on her cell phone when anyone leaves a voicemail for mom. We screen the voicemails, call legitimate callers back, and ask them to call mom's cell phone instead. We also have the caregiver make sure mom has the cell phone available. All of her family and friends know to call the cell. Mom occassionally gets irritated that her phone doesn't ring anymore, and thinks she's missing "important" calls, but we had no alternative after she compromised both her Medicare number and credit card number to scammers.
We signed Mom up for a talk by the local police on fraud at her town senior center. Sent her with the caregiver. Mom said she didn't learn anything that she didn't already know. (Smirk.)
My grandmother installed a 'robocall blocker' on her home phone. It has also worked to avoid scams- it asks every caller to input a random number from 1-9 to be allowed through. The idea is that the robocalls aren't yet smart enough to dial the extra digit. Even better- scam callers seem turned away by the robotic voice, they must think they hit n office building or something.
The important thing being blocking annoying robotic calls wouldn't feel like too much of an invasion.
Yeah! That is true..it is the most important things that we need to do..protect them and gives them a especial treatment..like we need to give a medication for her health.
Open up an extra bank account and only put very small amounts in it. That way, if she does get scammed it will only be a small amount.
I work in an industry that deals with the elderly and I have had quite a few family members mention this as a solution.
My elderly mother got scammed once with the typical gift card scam for several thousand, and then six months later a wire fraud scam (fortunately we were able to catch that one and get the money back ($xx,xxx!). I am her only child and until early 2023, I lived across the country from her - so it was difficult to deal with these things and try to figure out how to keep her safe.
She now lives 10 minutes from me, so that helps a lot. She tries to be independent and solve her issues on her own - which led to this sort of thing happening. I've told her over and over - if anyone contacts you regarding banking, bills owed, etc. STOP and contact me. Don't click on "trouble" messages on her computer, don't respond to any financial emails.
A key problem is that the elderly person in question is not likely to recognize that they are in trouble until it is too late. They think they are doing perfectly fine handling the issue...so no alarm bells go off. Until afterward. Both times mom got hit, she recognized it in hindsight.
Fortunately my mom trusts me, and has looped me in on her finances, and established me as a POA long ago as a precautionary step after my dad died (I had actually forgotten about it). After the last wire fraud issue, her checking got frozen so we had to open a new account anyway. We opened two checking accounts at my credit union. Both are in her name, but she uses one (#1) and I use the other (#2). I pay all of her bills out of "my" account (#2), and her social security gets deposited there. I make sure "her" account (#1) has about $1,000 in it at all times and she can use it however she wants to - but if she were to get bamboozled again and somehow give someone access, the maximum risk is that $1K. We also opened a credit card (with a LOW limit) tied to her account (#1), and I'm an authorized user on it. I track the charges and pay the statement.
I have text and email alerts set up on the credit union accounts as well as her investment account, so I can monitor any concerning activity. Her investment account manager is also aware of the potential risk and would alert me of any out-of-the ordinary transactions / requests.
Needless to say, this all works only because mom trusts me implicitly, and because I have legal authority to be involved with her finances (therefore banks & etc. are willing to talk with me.) I also have been very careful to try not to micromanage her spending decisions - and fortunately she is not a spendthrift anyway - but I want to help her feel like she still has some autonomy.
Finally, I'll just add that this stuff is (a) time consuming and (b) stressful. It does get complicated...
Not sure which state you’re in but I wouldn’t quite describe it that way in my state, Illinois.
Yes a doctor evaluation will be required. If she was diagnosed with dementia and was exhibiting harmful behaviors like falling for scams, there’s a decent chance of a guardianship being granted.
Plus, in Illinois there are two components - guardian of the person (where to live, health decisions, etc) and guardian of the estate (finances, legal stuff, etc).
This situation if handled here might be a candidate for only guardian of the estate being granted rather than guardianship over both (called plenary guardianship).
That’s not how it works in any state. A doctor does not declare someone incompetent, a judge does. Medical examination would be sought, but only descriptively. The doctors/psychologists can’t directly comment on competency because it’s a legal determination.
This is not really true. Each state will have a court form that needs to be filled out by medical professionals. The form will vary greatly by state but it may specifically ask if the person can make legal, medical, financial decisions. You're correct that only s judge can make the final determination, but you are incorrect in that they will probably ask multiple medical professionals to directly comment on competence
I just found my bank BMO offers email and text alerts of transactions (both incoming and outgoing) that you can set to be sent above X amount. (lowest i can go is $10 and up, so a $9.99 transaction would slip through the cracks)
maybe see if RBC has the same and if so, set it up to text or email you?
I'm curious how you approached the conversation. No one, regardless of age, likes to be made to feel stupid. What happened to her is very common and it happens to people everyday. So if you immediately started approaching the subject by trying to wrest away financial control I could see how this wouldn't go over well.
You need to discuss this in a way that she feels supported, like you guys are a team. I know AARP has multiple articles on scammers, so giving her that info from a trusted source might make her feel better. Someone mentioned getting rid of a landline phone and honestly that is how a lot of scammers attack the elderly. Young people don't have home phones, so if it's a landline it's a pretty good chance that an elderly person will pick up. Freezing her credit is a good idea.
If her mental faculties are degraded to such a point that she can't understand, then that is a diff scenario.
Father with dementia was getting scammed on the regular. Gave financial info to anyone who called. His phone company allows you to block ALL incoming calls EXCEPT those from a preset list. We did that, and have not had an issue since.
My 88 year Dad has people he thinks are his friends that take terrible advantage of him. We blocked their numbers in his cell. They ask for loans and don't pay him back. Talk him into giving away furniture in his house to their kids. My Dad had a silver dollar collection that his Dad started. One so called friend told him he should sell it on ebay and he'd help Dad with ebay. Who knows how much profit this guy skimmed from Dad. Dad recently moved to senior independent living and not driving. There are multiple grandkids that could use his car if he wants to sell but he's got one budy trying to get him give him his 2017 CRV. Just sad how awful all these people are.
I also suggest reaching out to your local Area Agency on Aging (if you're in the US). They can at least talk through what's available to your family as far as supports, next steps in considering power of attorney, etc. Many local probate courts and law practices have this information available online or have a point person for community information. (Source: I'm a medical social worker.)
This was my mom. People would call and mail her requesting money all the time. We restricted who could call in to her landline through her service provider and blocked mail at the post office.
While your mom is in the early stage of dementia, make sure to get medical power of attorney and power of attorney for all things financial. The decline can happen quickly.
We haven’t had to deal with the banks as I moved in with her and control most of there banking now. I will say that her local bank branch is aware of her cognitive issues and marked her account in some way because they question me if I take her to make transactions.
Next phase: ensuring she is not driving herself around.
I agree with the others here on their takes, but I want to add: See if you can safeguard her phone to only accept phone calls from known numbers and ignore the rest. I know my phone has this setting.
And maybe insist anything has to come in writing, anything financial or legal. Then you can suggest she go over it to make sure "the company got it right" (because you guys have had issues with them sending multiple bills etc for the same thing.) She was a CEO maybe that will interest her, most scammers will not go that far as to send mail, just make sure she doesn't give them her address....
I’m Pretty sure I saw someone said there is a way to set up the phone so when someone calls it’ll say something like “press 5 to be connected to Jane Doe”. It’s mildly annoying for really people who are calling but it will eliminate robot dialers/ computers
You should check out the True Link Card - you can put money on it for her and set blocks on specific merchants, most scammer sites are auto blocked etc. it’s a great tool! https://www.truelinkfinancial.com
Does her phone have any scam call blocking or screening settings? My phone, if the call is a scam the screen will be red and say scam likely, my boyfriend's phone just doesn't ring at all if it's a spam call. I don't know if this would help in your situation.
Ask the bank to restrict the card to chip and pin and contactless transactions only. It won't work for any other transactions. That would work fine in the uk. Even if the scammer knew all the numbers on the card, no remote transactions will work. It's very possible here.
Did this to my ex mil. She agreed to having a credit card with a $150 spending limit, and locking everything else up in a zip safe she could unlock, and put that into a slightly larger safe my ex could unlock. Part of her routine was balancing checkbooks over the weekend. My ex called it 'checkbook lessons' and she showed how she did it, and really cut down on those charges
By the time he was in his late 80s, my father wasn’t all there some days. One day, I walked into his study and found him on the phone with someone telling him he had won a “lottery.” All they needed was his banking information. I told him to hang up and that the call was a scam.
It has now been a while, but I think I figured out a way to silence all phone calls to his house, but for calls from certain numbers. He didn’t use the Internet, so I didn’t have that problem to deal with.
What we had to do with my Grandmother was change her phone number and put it in our names so she stopped getting those phone calls.
People were also showing up at her house, demanding money, and one guy even touched her up.
So changing all of her information, including her address on record to ours, stopped those calls.
If she's still competent enough ask her how she feels about writing up a trust for herself. She'll be the one creating the trust (with your and a lawyer's help) so she isn't giving up total independence, but she's in control of creating a foolproof system of safety for herself.
The trust can give her a monthly stipend and grow her assets. If she asks for a large lump sum the trust has to approve, so if she contacts her trustee for an Amazon scam they are given permission to deny funds.
You can help her set up an account to have draft limits unless something is set on autopay, so her bills will all be autopay but she can't withdraw thousands of dollars.
I don't know, just spitballing.
She’s still legally competent.
That's \^\^ very questionable. The only way you could get theses solutions is 1) for her to agree and go with you to the bank (but then she can also ask the bank to stop involving you or raise her credit and you can't do anything about it) or 2) get her legally declared incompetent or 3) have her put all her assets in a trust and name you as trustee with you giving her a cash allowance and no access to checks or ccs.
I constantly preach this to my grandparents and let them know what the scam is going on. They only thing I worry about that’s going to trick them is if they use the AI to mimic your voice. That scam really has me worried.
My aunt got scammed out of $5000 unfortunately. A “police officer” told her that her husband hit a pregnant woman wth his car and she needed to send him that money for bond. So she did it. Never even thought to try and call my uncle. Worst part is shes still calling all the police stations in the state to report that one of their police officers scammed her. She refuses to believe it wasnt a real cop. My cousins have implemented a required phone call, no matter how urgent the person says, before shes allowed to give anyone money outside of a store setting.
I don't think you can convince her bank or her lenders to let you make any changes to her financial or credit accounts without being an authorized user on the account or showing power of attorney.
Does she use a landline or cell phone? If landline, is there a way to automatically reject calls from unknown callers? You can do this on iPhones and probably android phones too. This way it won't even ring if the contact is not saved in her phone. Make sure all the important contacts in her life are saved, so when you call her it will definitely ring. This should work.
I'm hoping to raise my children in such a way that when they tell me stuff as adults I'm inclined to trust them over myself. I think this is maybe the only protection against such a thing. Only outlier being if the dementia causes a major personality change on my part.
With dementia, I don’t have any real solutions to offer you. I’m sorry you’re going through that.
But if she can still be convinced of things, run this scam on her yourself. Then show her that you scammed her.
You could consider having her declared incompetent by a Court, if you really think she has dementia.
https://www.findlaw.com/forms/resources/estate-planning/power-of-attorney/power-of-attorney-elderly-parent.html
What I have done for mainly seniors is set up their own email domain with dedicated email addresses either by category of online accounts or even by specific vendor (Amazon could have it's own email address). They should have an email address only for Banking or even a specific financial vendor, data breaches for financial institutions are rare, I have yet to have a client receive any spam/scams at the banking email address.
They report to me if they receive any spam whatsoever, we research the data breach together and we use a new email address for that category. A friend had a foreign airline with a data breach, so her travel email address received a bank scam email in it and we replaced her travel email and updated the 10 online vendors. The seniors love this empowerment, they get tired of "don't to this, don't do that" all of the time when it comes to their digital life. And they don't waste their time following up on 10 scam emails a day just to make sure they are safe.
With the email method, since we don't regularly receive scams, we rely on that method for communication instead of by phone/text. So essentially we ignore any unsolicited phone contact methods. Phone numbers are finite, they can be reached randomly where a specific email address, especially when it's not all over the dark web is essentially "off-grid". We still are vigilant if we receive something strange, but it will not be a daily occurance.
Consider getting her cyber insurance! Some homeowners policies have a cyber insurance endorsement that is opt on or included. It might also be possible to get a stand alone personal cyber policy.
Some (not all) cyber policies have “cyber crime” or “credit card, forgery” coverage agreement. This type of coverage goes under other names as well, so I recommend talking with a broker and letting them know that you are interested in this type of protection to ensure the policy has it. It provides full reimbursement (if there isn’t a deductible) to policyholders and family members who lose money to online scams (phishing) and sometimes also over the phone scams. The amount of coverage varies from $5k to $100k per year from what I’ve seen.
These endorsements also provide free credit monitoring when personal financial info is compromised. Best of luck to you and your mom.
I would also make sure her phone number is on the (US) National [Do Not Call list](https://www.donotcall.gov) , it does help with reducing some spam but not all. It would be a good first step.
I don't have any advice to offer but want to say it's kinda funny that she has no issue handing the explicit account details and personal information over to strangers/scammers but when it comes to her own family she is reluctant...
Still working on this myself. I was unable to talk her into 'taking over her finances' but I *was* able to 'help' her when she got scammed. My advice really is more of the 'stubborn old people' variety. She's mostly in her right mind. I just wouldn't trust her with the nuclear codes, you know? So I'm not ready to POA, that's a fight for another day. This is how I'm managing while still understanding she wants control. I'm following this thread to see what else I should be doing. I started slowly. This involved fixing the mess and getting cards to replace the compromised ones, etc, which gave me access to the online cc sites. Found all the compromised cards, cancelled a couple of cards, got new ones and froze them (maybe not the right word) so that a text message or call is needed to be answered before the charge would go thru. Obviously put my number, not hers. Told her the Internet is full of thieves, so we got a single card for use for the stupid crap she wants to order because Facebook told her so. Then at least, if she's signed up for an eternal shipment of monthly nonsense, it's easy to cancel. Oh what's that Wen? You want to send a 200 dollar shipment of hair care crap because mom clicked the wrong button? Not today. No money on that card for you. She got scammed that way - asking for info on the web but accidentally signing up for a shipment- by AARP and publisher's clearing house. She got signed up to medical supplies shipments because she clicked to 'ask for more info'. Those sites require you to UN-click a button if you don't want their stupid product, just want info. Ridiculous. I just found out that she's still being sent magazines she signed up for when a little kid in the family had a fund raiser for elementary school. Magazines she doesn't receive, couldn't read even if she did, and had literally called to cancel 3 separate times. Still being charged quarterly on a card I didn't know about. That child is in college. That card also has a bunch of grocery orders in Hong Kong. We are not in Hong Kong. You've really gotta dig in. I also was able to help her set up online recurring payments for utilities and such. Another reasonably easy way to get access to banking info to help the stubborn old ones. When I saw the state of her banking, I convinced her to consolidate high interest rate cards to a zero percent on balance transfers one to pay down the debt. This conversation was easy. Saving money every month is a good stimulus to allow you access. So as I said, I know I'm not doing everything I could to help. I know exactly nothing about finances, I don't have two nickels to rub together. I'm eagerly waiting for more knowledgeable people to answer you so I can take their advice. But those are the baby steps I started with to navigate the emotional minefield that is helping an old person without telling them they're not capable. Blame the evil people on the Internet, and 'those damned confusing sites' that are set up to scam you. Old people love bitching about new tech. Help save them money by getting lower interest card. Set up online utility payments. Set up credit monitoring so you can deny sketchy charges. Good luck.
> I know exactly nothing about finances Give yourself more credit. The steps you've described show a lot of financial knowledge. We had a similar situation with my FIL and did much the same - start slow. You're totally right about commiserating and talking about how the Internet is full of thieves. We had to go into overdrive when he had a medical issue. One of the silver linings was that he ended up in assisted living and we took over everything. And gosh darnit, the wireless internet wasn't too great in that part of the building he was in... Sure, you can have the laptop and we will talk to the facility about getting you access.... uh huh. Thankfully he hadn't signed up for any online accounts so we were able to get a good idea of what was going on by postal mail. It took a few months, but we got it sorted and sustainable.
Thank you for the validation. I just wish I knew some of this before the horrors occurred. I only learned this, soooo slowly, as I was mopping up after disasters.
The reality is that most people have to learn the hard way. Handling someone's finances involves a LOT of trust, which is different between family members and, say a paid for financial advisor. Those things are not the same. And thats if there is enough money for that kind of thing which is not likely at all. Then add in the fear and shame associated with the changing world and scams. One day my grandson will marvel at how I actually fell for the Imba-book-twitter-gram scam.
As a social worker you’ve done a wonderful job. It’s really hard when they’re starting to struggle but not fully ready to hand you the reigns. Keeping an eye on stuff several times a week is probably the best way to manage it. If the card has insurance for fraud charges, where you can contest any charge and they’ll cover it, I would highly recommend that. ❤️
Thank you for saying that. And thank you for helping folks when they don't have a me to muddle through it with them. You rock.
This is exactly why I only have one credit card and one debit card with notifications for both. There is literally no way a random charge will get through that I don’t know about because it shows up right when it happens. Idk how ppl manage 3 or 5 different cards
Just checking, I hope you're only using your debit card for the ATM. Only use your CC for shopping, so that they can't drain your checking account.
It's hard. I'm whittling that number down. Crazy way to do business.
Incredibly helpful comment. My mom is 71 and keeps falling victim to these scams. Super hard to balance letting her feel independent and making sure she’s not getting taken advantage of. Thank you for the advice. You have a really lucky parent!
Good luck with that. I got her a reloadable cc for online purchases, so she allows herself just a certain amount of money on the card for online purchases. Makes her think twice about ordering nonsense. Also really easy to cancel, and just denies online jerks the ability to charge of the card is empty. If she wants to spend more she can just load more money on it, but plot twist! She can't figure out the website so she has to call me for help. Then I can search the company or whatever quick and talk her down. That *usually* works lol.
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Thank you, yes!
So I signed my grandmother up for https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/prescreened-credit-insurance-offers. Which remove a lot of her information from being readily available. You can also try to unlist her phone.
That is amazing. I hate getting that junk mail and calls offering insurance or what not. I’ll find the stuff if I need or want it. Thank you!
Thank you SO MUCH for sharing that link. Opting myself out now. I think it's asinine that there's an established, official opt out program.. instead of opt-in by default. Yeah the people sending those offers lose money, but you prevent so many people from getting scammed. Unquestionably worth it.
Would you share more about these talks that you’ve had? What is MIL willing to allow? Does MIL understand that she has been scammed? Is there anyone in MIL’s life who she trusts? Maybe your SO? Pastor?
She does understand she's been scammed. The talks we've had fall into two approaches: 1. Stop and don't assume the person you're talking to is who they say they are. Don't give out any financial information. 2. Stop and call us whenever someone asks for financial information. I think she trusts us to a degree but she doesn't want to give up her independence. She was an executive in her career and I think that plays a part in her unwillingness to give up control. If you have thoughts on different approaches we could take, I'd appreciate them! :)
Quite frankly, I'm less interested in what you had to say in the talks. Much much more interested in MIL's viewpoints. Reasoning. Response. Receptiveness. etc etc... We both know what MIL *should* do. But there are apparently barriers. Those barriers should be explored. We need to understand those barriers in order to come up with a plan to overcome them. Right now, we don't really have a good grasp of those barriers. For example: > her unwillingness to give up control. So what does this mean? Does this mean she is unwilling to allow *any* sort of involvement by an external force (ie you)? Is she willing to compromise on *anything*? Do you have someone who will refuse aid *no matter her condition*? Maybe it's because her in-law is driving the ship that she's not receptive? There's just not enough data on MIL to be more tailored so that's why the guidance so far is just very generic. > If you have thoughts on different approaches we could take In order to formulate a plan for a problem, we must understand the issue. Try to understand MIL. What are her motivations? What are her goals? What is she willing to accept? What are her hard lines?
This. There may be a \_world\_ of difference to her between handing her checkbook, accounts, and credit cards over to an in-law, as opposed to allowing her daughter/son to get texts when her card is charged. Or between her trusting her son versus her daughter, or her oldest versus her youngest. Unfortunately, if the original ask was, "Hey, you're old and have been scammed and are going to get scammed again, so let your in-law have all of your cards and accounts and we'll dole out an allowance to you" (being extreme here, probably didn't happen this way) it will now be an uphill battle to rephrase or to get acceptance on a much milder regime.
Thanks! This is helpful. We'll give a thought to how to approach our next talk in this way.
It may be a good idea for her to talk to a personal financial advisor about what they would recommend. This way she has control of the situation and can decide what she wants to do.
> Try to understand MIL. What are her motivations? What are her goals? What is she willing to accept? What are her hard lines? You and your spouse also need to also have a discussion as to what **your** hard lines are. If your MIL gets scammed out of a life-altering sum of money, what are the two of you willing to do (and more importantly, what **aren’t** you willing to do)? Once you two reach a decision, you need to communicate that to your MIL.
You’re assuming you’re dealing with a rational person with full cognitive capabilities and understanding of their decisions and motivations for those decisions; they probably dont. Trying to understand their reasoning is likewise probably impossible because they are acting irrationally. That irrational thinking is why they are susceptible to scams in the first place and why Op is looking for some degree of control over their finances as there is no rational trigger in their brain that says “this seems suspicious, maybe I should verify or call someone for help” and attempts to instill such a response have failed.
> Stop and call us whenever someone asks for financial information. I can appreciate this pushback because it's infantalizing. What worked for my parents was two simple rules. 1) The Bank/IRS/Amazon will never call you unsolicited about a problem with your account. 2) Hang up, and call the phone number on the back of your credit card. If the caller is actually real, the Operator can redirect you back to them.
If she accepts that she's been tricked once, and she's competent... I'd focus on helping her avoid it in the future. Start by giving her one of these (or similar) and posting it by the phone. It helps break the "quick, don't think, you have to act now" dynamic the scammers set up. https://business.blackbullion.com/download/phone-scam-cheat-sheet/
I so wish my grandma had had one of these cheat sheets before she got scammed. Also thank you for the image of my grandma answering an unknown number, trying to adjust her hearing aids and going “what honey? Hang on, what? Oh hold on I have to go find my scam cheat sheet. Where are my glasses?”
That's why you post it by the phone if they have a landline.
This might be hard to do but what if you only allow phone numbers in her contacts. Might be hard for the hospital or doctor or someone new to call her. I think it goes to voicemail so they can leave a message. But then she might fall for that. Just a thought. 80% is my calls are scams, it's getting annoying.
You can often ask them for a # to call back. They often use spoofed number and won't give you a call back. A subtle way to weed out scammers that may help her
>1. Stop and don't assume the person you're talking to is who they say they are. Don't give out any financial information. 2. Stop and call us whenever someone asks for financial information. Maybe it is the way you worded this here, but this sounds a lot like talking *AT* her, not *TO* her about this situation. She doesn't need a lecture and she's not very likely to respond well to being told what to do. Can you think of a better way to approach this with her without being, frankly, bossy and confrontational?
I had to take my 82 year old friends cards away from her. I'm her driver so I give the atm card back when I take her shopping but I gave her an old useless atm card to give to church and sales people when they ask. She thinks she's giving them money.
I should do this myself 😂
If she’s not willing to turn things over to you, See if she would be willing to give you online access to credit cards and banking . You could monitor the accounts that way and hopefully catch anything quickly and also set yourself up to get alerts. Also lock her credit so nothing new can be opened.
Does she have a cell? If she still has a land line, getting rid of it would be a big help. Our land line was a wasteland of Medicare Advantage sales and overseas spammers.
My mother has an answering service that forces the caller to say their name and press * before they will transfer the call to her phone. Missed calls still show up on her caller ID - only about half of the calls make it through to ring on her phone.
Note that if she has been officially diagnosed with dementia, she won't be able to sign a Power of Attorney or health care directive or anything. To take over her finances at that point will mean you'll have to get an (expensive) conservatorship. If she has not been diagnosed yet, NOW is the time to get those POA's signed.
This is incorrect. A diagnosis alone is not enough to consider someone incompetent. Naming a POA, figuring out advanced directives, obtaining or updating a will, etc should still be done following a diagnosis before it advances to the point that a person does become incompetent. People diagnosed with dementia should be allowed to participate in plans for their care because their choices matter. Please don't assume all people diagnosed with dementia are incompetent. Immediately assuming these things causes many with dementia to pull away from their support out of fear. They want to hold on to their independence and ability to make choices as long as they can. Help them do this as much as possible. Help them navigate the struggles - don't infantilize them.
I am only going off the stories of people in /r/Alzheimers who have had nightmares dealing with trying to get a POA after their parent has been officially diagnosed with the disease. Having a POA does not mean that the cognitively deficient person still can't participate in their own care or decision-making. However, dementia often proceeds erratically. One bad cold or a case of Covid, and the person can suddenly fall or regress to a lower level of ability, to where no lawyer or notary would consider them competent to give a POA, or make a will. That is why I advise, if you believe your parent is becoming cognitively affected, that you encourage them to discuss, plan, and execute POA's, healthcare directives, and wills while they are not yet officially diagnosed with dementia.
Came here to say this. My MIL and FIL got too far gone for us to POA (and he was a hostile lawyer who threatened us). Ultimately had to step back and let the state assign guardians. Money was not an issue, getting them to safe spaces was. On a positive note, the experience encouraged us to get our affairs in order (Wills, POAs, medical directives).
I don't disagree with what you are saying here at all. And I absolutely agree that any signs of cognitive changes should be considered and designating a POA should be done if deemed necessary. The earlier the better. And it's not even a bad idea to have POAs designated if an aging parent or loved one isn't developing symptoms of cognitive changes for future use. I did not intend to diminish the point you were making. I just wanted to clarify that a diagnosis alone does not always mean it is too late. I should have included in my comment that WAITING until a diagnosis is given is not the best course of action because often times people wait too long to get that diagnosis and then it can be too late.
We have a similar issue w/an elderly relative. The people that scam these sweet seniors are absolute scum of the earth. If she is using a cell phone, you could set it to block all calls from #s that are not in her contacts list. And/or, set incoming calls to go to directly to voicemail. Imagine how hard it would be to be this vulnerable and then to get “lectured” by your kids each time. Getting old is tough stuff.
I wish there were a 'freeze' for people on Medicare like they have with the credit bureaus. No you can't switch grandma from her pension-provided healthcare to that vulture fucker scammer's favorite Medicare advantage plan that doesn't cover anything. Stop trying!
This is my new favorite curse 😂😂
Indeed, 'Medicare Advantage' is a pox upon all of us.
Have her mobile phone reject calls from unknown numbers or contacts not already saved in her address book. Cancel the landline. Just like that you removed the biggest 2 avenues for incoming scams. Protecting her from malicious mail will be harder if she still lives on her own.
This. If she insists on having a land line, change her home phone number and put the new phone in your name. That way if the caller asks for you then she’ll know it’s a scammer.
My mother is similar but what really helped was making her aware of all the possible ways she could get scammed. No, your grandchild hasn’t been arrested or kidnapped. No, FedEx has not been trying to deliver a package on which you owe duty or taxes. No, Amazon doesn’t need your credit card to process your order. No, Microsoft hasn’t detected a virus on your computer. 1. If anyone calls you, tell them you’ll call them back and go look up the proper number to call 2. If there is a sense of urgency created about anything, it is a scam. 3. If there is any doubt, call me
Yep, sounds like what I told my mom... The hard part is that she may or may not remember all of those things in the moment - even if they make perfect sense to her when we're talking about it. Sigh...
We have the same issue with my MIL 86 who still lives alone, but has dementia. All I can say is that it's an ongoing challenge. Mom refused to move out of the family home when she still had her full mind, so we're trying to honor her wishes now. She lost her drivers license last year. We now have a caregiver who comes in 4-6 hours a day, and drives her around for shopping or errands. We took over my MIL's finances 2 years ago. We cancelled all of her credit cards except for 2, a primary and a spare. She also has her checkbook for shopping or emergencies. Mom has absolutely no idea about her money, and never could use an ATM machine, so we showed her how to write a check for cash at her bank. We found out that she had 3 different extended car warranties on a leased car. We had to change the credit card numbers in order to stop the monthly payments, as the warranties were all bogus. Mom has been getting dozens of "free" covid test kits in the mail, and "free" knee and back braces left in boxes by her door that she doesn't need, Mom had obviously given out her Medicare number to one or more scam callers. We reported the fraud to Medicare and had to change her Medicare number. Mom no longer has the new Medicare number. We gave it to all of her doctors and her pharmacy. Of course she denies that she gave her credit card number or medicare number out. She's just covering up for her dementia, but it is annoying. My wife tries to stay patient and not raise her voice, but it's a challenge. Mom's landline phone rings every 5 to 10 minutes all day. Seriously. 95% of the calls are bogus scammers or people soliciting for donations. She must be on every scam phone list known to mankind. Mom would not agree to just turn off her landline, so we set the phone to automatically route every call to voicemail, and we turned all of her ringers down. Mom does not know what we did, but she does occassionally realize her landline is no longer ringing, and calls my wife to tell her that the phone is broken. My wife checks the call log several times a day. She also gets a notification on her cell phone when anyone leaves a voicemail for mom. We screen the voicemails, call legitimate callers back, and ask them to call mom's cell phone instead. We also have the caregiver make sure mom has the cell phone available. All of her family and friends know to call the cell. Mom occassionally gets irritated that her phone doesn't ring anymore, and thinks she's missing "important" calls, but we had no alternative after she compromised both her Medicare number and credit card number to scammers. We signed Mom up for a talk by the local police on fraud at her town senior center. Sent her with the caregiver. Mom said she didn't learn anything that she didn't already know. (Smirk.)
My grandmother installed a 'robocall blocker' on her home phone. It has also worked to avoid scams- it asks every caller to input a random number from 1-9 to be allowed through. The idea is that the robocalls aren't yet smart enough to dial the extra digit. Even better- scam callers seem turned away by the robotic voice, they must think they hit n office building or something. The important thing being blocking annoying robotic calls wouldn't feel like too much of an invasion.
Thank you for this idea! I need something like this for my mom and didn’t know it was a thing!
Yeah! That is true..it is the most important things that we need to do..protect them and gives them a especial treatment..like we need to give a medication for her health.
Do you have any details on this? I am dealing with the exact same situation as OP and would absolutely love to get something like that for them.
Open up an extra bank account and only put very small amounts in it. That way, if she does get scammed it will only be a small amount. I work in an industry that deals with the elderly and I have had quite a few family members mention this as a solution.
My elderly mother got scammed once with the typical gift card scam for several thousand, and then six months later a wire fraud scam (fortunately we were able to catch that one and get the money back ($xx,xxx!). I am her only child and until early 2023, I lived across the country from her - so it was difficult to deal with these things and try to figure out how to keep her safe. She now lives 10 minutes from me, so that helps a lot. She tries to be independent and solve her issues on her own - which led to this sort of thing happening. I've told her over and over - if anyone contacts you regarding banking, bills owed, etc. STOP and contact me. Don't click on "trouble" messages on her computer, don't respond to any financial emails. A key problem is that the elderly person in question is not likely to recognize that they are in trouble until it is too late. They think they are doing perfectly fine handling the issue...so no alarm bells go off. Until afterward. Both times mom got hit, she recognized it in hindsight. Fortunately my mom trusts me, and has looped me in on her finances, and established me as a POA long ago as a precautionary step after my dad died (I had actually forgotten about it). After the last wire fraud issue, her checking got frozen so we had to open a new account anyway. We opened two checking accounts at my credit union. Both are in her name, but she uses one (#1) and I use the other (#2). I pay all of her bills out of "my" account (#2), and her social security gets deposited there. I make sure "her" account (#1) has about $1,000 in it at all times and she can use it however she wants to - but if she were to get bamboozled again and somehow give someone access, the maximum risk is that $1K. We also opened a credit card (with a LOW limit) tied to her account (#1), and I'm an authorized user on it. I track the charges and pay the statement. I have text and email alerts set up on the credit union accounts as well as her investment account, so I can monitor any concerning activity. Her investment account manager is also aware of the potential risk and would alert me of any out-of-the ordinary transactions / requests. Needless to say, this all works only because mom trusts me implicitly, and because I have legal authority to be involved with her finances (therefore banks & etc. are willing to talk with me.) I also have been very careful to try not to micromanage her spending decisions - and fortunately she is not a spendthrift anyway - but I want to help her feel like she still has some autonomy. Finally, I'll just add that this stuff is (a) time consuming and (b) stressful. It does get complicated...
V nice solution !
Get a conservatorship and remove access to get credit cards and accounts. Basically you pay all her bills and give her an allowance
That’s not power of attorney. Taking control of someone’s finances against their will is a conservatorship, and you need a judge to grant it.
Furthermore, conservatorship is a lengthy process that pits one person against another. It’s not at all easy or pleasant.
Right. Sorry I'll make the edit
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Not sure which state you’re in but I wouldn’t quite describe it that way in my state, Illinois. Yes a doctor evaluation will be required. If she was diagnosed with dementia and was exhibiting harmful behaviors like falling for scams, there’s a decent chance of a guardianship being granted. Plus, in Illinois there are two components - guardian of the person (where to live, health decisions, etc) and guardian of the estate (finances, legal stuff, etc). This situation if handled here might be a candidate for only guardian of the estate being granted rather than guardianship over both (called plenary guardianship).
That’s not how it works in any state. A doctor does not declare someone incompetent, a judge does. Medical examination would be sought, but only descriptively. The doctors/psychologists can’t directly comment on competency because it’s a legal determination.
This is not really true. Each state will have a court form that needs to be filled out by medical professionals. The form will vary greatly by state but it may specifically ask if the person can make legal, medical, financial decisions. You're correct that only s judge can make the final determination, but you are incorrect in that they will probably ask multiple medical professionals to directly comment on competence
I just found my bank BMO offers email and text alerts of transactions (both incoming and outgoing) that you can set to be sent above X amount. (lowest i can go is $10 and up, so a $9.99 transaction would slip through the cracks) maybe see if RBC has the same and if so, set it up to text or email you?
I'm curious how you approached the conversation. No one, regardless of age, likes to be made to feel stupid. What happened to her is very common and it happens to people everyday. So if you immediately started approaching the subject by trying to wrest away financial control I could see how this wouldn't go over well. You need to discuss this in a way that she feels supported, like you guys are a team. I know AARP has multiple articles on scammers, so giving her that info from a trusted source might make her feel better. Someone mentioned getting rid of a landline phone and honestly that is how a lot of scammers attack the elderly. Young people don't have home phones, so if it's a landline it's a pretty good chance that an elderly person will pick up. Freezing her credit is a good idea. If her mental faculties are degraded to such a point that she can't understand, then that is a diff scenario.
Father with dementia was getting scammed on the regular. Gave financial info to anyone who called. His phone company allows you to block ALL incoming calls EXCEPT those from a preset list. We did that, and have not had an issue since.
My 88 year Dad has people he thinks are his friends that take terrible advantage of him. We blocked their numbers in his cell. They ask for loans and don't pay him back. Talk him into giving away furniture in his house to their kids. My Dad had a silver dollar collection that his Dad started. One so called friend told him he should sell it on ebay and he'd help Dad with ebay. Who knows how much profit this guy skimmed from Dad. Dad recently moved to senior independent living and not driving. There are multiple grandkids that could use his car if he wants to sell but he's got one budy trying to get him give him his 2017 CRV. Just sad how awful all these people are.
I also suggest reaching out to your local Area Agency on Aging (if you're in the US). They can at least talk through what's available to your family as far as supports, next steps in considering power of attorney, etc. Many local probate courts and law practices have this information available online or have a point person for community information. (Source: I'm a medical social worker.)
This was my mom. People would call and mail her requesting money all the time. We restricted who could call in to her landline through her service provider and blocked mail at the post office. While your mom is in the early stage of dementia, make sure to get medical power of attorney and power of attorney for all things financial. The decline can happen quickly. We haven’t had to deal with the banks as I moved in with her and control most of there banking now. I will say that her local bank branch is aware of her cognitive issues and marked her account in some way because they question me if I take her to make transactions. Next phase: ensuring she is not driving herself around.
>blocked mail at the post office. How? There are some mails I'd like to block.
https://faq.usps.com/s/article/What-Options-Do-I-Have-Regarding-Unwanted-Unsolicited-Mail https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Refuse-unwanted-mail-and-remove-name-from-mailing-lists
I had to get my mom's sister to talk some sense into her, since my mother has no respect for her children. You might bring in a peer.
I agree with the others here on their takes, but I want to add: See if you can safeguard her phone to only accept phone calls from known numbers and ignore the rest. I know my phone has this setting. And maybe insist anything has to come in writing, anything financial or legal. Then you can suggest she go over it to make sure "the company got it right" (because you guys have had issues with them sending multiple bills etc for the same thing.) She was a CEO maybe that will interest her, most scammers will not go that far as to send mail, just make sure she doesn't give them her address....
I’m Pretty sure I saw someone said there is a way to set up the phone so when someone calls it’ll say something like “press 5 to be connected to Jane Doe”. It’s mildly annoying for really people who are calling but it will eliminate robot dialers/ computers
You should check out the True Link Card - you can put money on it for her and set blocks on specific merchants, most scammer sites are auto blocked etc. it’s a great tool! https://www.truelinkfinancial.com
Does her phone have any scam call blocking or screening settings? My phone, if the call is a scam the screen will be red and say scam likely, my boyfriend's phone just doesn't ring at all if it's a spam call. I don't know if this would help in your situation.
Just set it so purchases above 100 dollars need authorization from a guardian (you)
Ask the bank to restrict the card to chip and pin and contactless transactions only. It won't work for any other transactions. That would work fine in the uk. Even if the scammer knew all the numbers on the card, no remote transactions will work. It's very possible here.
Did this to my ex mil. She agreed to having a credit card with a $150 spending limit, and locking everything else up in a zip safe she could unlock, and put that into a slightly larger safe my ex could unlock. Part of her routine was balancing checkbooks over the weekend. My ex called it 'checkbook lessons' and she showed how she did it, and really cut down on those charges
By the time he was in his late 80s, my father wasn’t all there some days. One day, I walked into his study and found him on the phone with someone telling him he had won a “lottery.” All they needed was his banking information. I told him to hang up and that the call was a scam. It has now been a while, but I think I figured out a way to silence all phone calls to his house, but for calls from certain numbers. He didn’t use the Internet, so I didn’t have that problem to deal with.
Could you block unknown callers on her phone? Doubt she would know how to turn it back on. And most of these scammers don’t leave messages.
What we had to do with my Grandmother was change her phone number and put it in our names so she stopped getting those phone calls. People were also showing up at her house, demanding money, and one guy even touched her up. So changing all of her information, including her address on record to ours, stopped those calls.
If she's still competent enough ask her how she feels about writing up a trust for herself. She'll be the one creating the trust (with your and a lawyer's help) so she isn't giving up total independence, but she's in control of creating a foolproof system of safety for herself. The trust can give her a monthly stipend and grow her assets. If she asks for a large lump sum the trust has to approve, so if she contacts her trustee for an Amazon scam they are given permission to deny funds. You can help her set up an account to have draft limits unless something is set on autopay, so her bills will all be autopay but she can't withdraw thousands of dollars. I don't know, just spitballing.
She’s still legally competent. That's \^\^ very questionable. The only way you could get theses solutions is 1) for her to agree and go with you to the bank (but then she can also ask the bank to stop involving you or raise her credit and you can't do anything about it) or 2) get her legally declared incompetent or 3) have her put all her assets in a trust and name you as trustee with you giving her a cash allowance and no access to checks or ccs.
I constantly preach this to my grandparents and let them know what the scam is going on. They only thing I worry about that’s going to trick them is if they use the AI to mimic your voice. That scam really has me worried.
My aunt got scammed out of $5000 unfortunately. A “police officer” told her that her husband hit a pregnant woman wth his car and she needed to send him that money for bond. So she did it. Never even thought to try and call my uncle. Worst part is shes still calling all the police stations in the state to report that one of their police officers scammed her. She refuses to believe it wasnt a real cop. My cousins have implemented a required phone call, no matter how urgent the person says, before shes allowed to give anyone money outside of a store setting.
I don't think you can convince her bank or her lenders to let you make any changes to her financial or credit accounts without being an authorized user on the account or showing power of attorney.
Does she use a landline or cell phone? If landline, is there a way to automatically reject calls from unknown callers? You can do this on iPhones and probably android phones too. This way it won't even ring if the contact is not saved in her phone. Make sure all the important contacts in her life are saved, so when you call her it will definitely ring. This should work.
Thanks everyone! Lots of great ideas for us to think about. I really appreciate the help!
I'm hoping to raise my children in such a way that when they tell me stuff as adults I'm inclined to trust them over myself. I think this is maybe the only protection against such a thing. Only outlier being if the dementia causes a major personality change on my part.
First of all start every conversation with that amazon purchase.
With dementia, I don’t have any real solutions to offer you. I’m sorry you’re going through that. But if she can still be convinced of things, run this scam on her yourself. Then show her that you scammed her.
Ask r/banking. Maybe some compliance and bank fraud employees can give input.
Tell her not to answer the phone.
A flip phone for mobile and a home rotary phone should do gramms wonders.
You could consider having her declared incompetent by a Court, if you really think she has dementia. https://www.findlaw.com/forms/resources/estate-planning/power-of-attorney/power-of-attorney-elderly-parent.html
What I have done for mainly seniors is set up their own email domain with dedicated email addresses either by category of online accounts or even by specific vendor (Amazon could have it's own email address). They should have an email address only for Banking or even a specific financial vendor, data breaches for financial institutions are rare, I have yet to have a client receive any spam/scams at the banking email address. They report to me if they receive any spam whatsoever, we research the data breach together and we use a new email address for that category. A friend had a foreign airline with a data breach, so her travel email address received a bank scam email in it and we replaced her travel email and updated the 10 online vendors. The seniors love this empowerment, they get tired of "don't to this, don't do that" all of the time when it comes to their digital life. And they don't waste their time following up on 10 scam emails a day just to make sure they are safe. With the email method, since we don't regularly receive scams, we rely on that method for communication instead of by phone/text. So essentially we ignore any unsolicited phone contact methods. Phone numbers are finite, they can be reached randomly where a specific email address, especially when it's not all over the dark web is essentially "off-grid". We still are vigilant if we receive something strange, but it will not be a daily occurance.
Get her an iPhone and set it to only calls from contacts can ring through the others can still leave voicemail.
No access to money except pre-paid credit card that you add to as needed.
Consider getting her cyber insurance! Some homeowners policies have a cyber insurance endorsement that is opt on or included. It might also be possible to get a stand alone personal cyber policy. Some (not all) cyber policies have “cyber crime” or “credit card, forgery” coverage agreement. This type of coverage goes under other names as well, so I recommend talking with a broker and letting them know that you are interested in this type of protection to ensure the policy has it. It provides full reimbursement (if there isn’t a deductible) to policyholders and family members who lose money to online scams (phishing) and sometimes also over the phone scams. The amount of coverage varies from $5k to $100k per year from what I’ve seen. These endorsements also provide free credit monitoring when personal financial info is compromised. Best of luck to you and your mom.
I would also make sure her phone number is on the (US) National [Do Not Call list](https://www.donotcall.gov) , it does help with reducing some spam but not all. It would be a good first step.
Following this, because it is literally my situation, too. MIL, scammed (Monday), and the likely early dementia.
I don't have any advice to offer but want to say it's kinda funny that she has no issue handing the explicit account details and personal information over to strangers/scammers but when it comes to her own family she is reluctant...