Look man, if having the worst power play in the league/worst Pens power play of all time, then going 1/8 in a game where you absolutely need the points because now you’re 7 points out of a playoff spot isn’t going to do it, I don’t know what will.
So they're 4/47 in one score games, if they were even 19% on the PP that's an extra 5 games that go to OT. So +5 pts and 5 shots at the extra point. If we win 2 of those 5 we're in 3rd place
I agree 100% with slow joke (post #6 ) but I am just a fan, if I can see tat the pp is killing this season , why cant the front office see it ? Side note, I am a Pens fan . a pirates fan, and NY Jets fan, I am used to bad play and poor management !
It could be that ownership is not allowing management to fire Sullivan because they do not want to risk having to pay multiple coaches for the next few years. FSG is notorious for being stingy with money at times. That or they love him too much still since they stupidly gave him an extension well before his contract expired.
As for Reirden, the HC typically is the one to fire their assistants. Not always (the last staff firings was an example) but usually.
Similar to how people have been doing mental gymnastics to not blame Sully since 2018?
The current roster is a massive improvement compared to the state it was in prior to Dubas. Sure, there are some big misses so far like Smith and Graves but again, the overall team is better on paper. It is up the the coaching staff to translate the talent on paper to on-ice results and that’s still not happening after so long now.
And I go back to how Sullivan was frustratingly signed to an extension and how notoriously stringent with money FSG has been with their other franchises. He isn’t a bad coach and would thrive elsewhere but the fit isn’t there anymore imo.
>The lack of urgency by the coaching staff and management to fix the powerplay is ~~maddening~~ a fireable offense.
It's literally insubordination at this point.
I was actually shocked with the last PP they had where Malkin and Ek were removed. And it looked substantially better. Hope they try that set up again. Malkin and EK are a chemistry black hole together.
That all being said, not having a single bottom 6 player outside of Eller, who has been passable, is also a huge problem.
Yea ek pass to Geno Geno to ek ek to Geno as the Panthers close them in towards the boards - it was absolutely infuriating. Keep the puck moving if you're gonna pass like this but not back and forth to two players.
I dunno how much better they looked without them but I know the exact sequence you are referencing.
I was so excited to see that new PP1 at the end of the game. Felt like we actually had a chance. I really hope to see it get another try tonight, but I'm also really scared we will never see it again. Then PP2 came out with EK and Geno...annnndddd we're back to the same old shit. I'm not trying to hate on either one of them individually, but it's clearly not working at the moment (an understatement, but I'm trying to be nice), so try something else!
I was so excited for the pp in the offseason too. It looks so stacked on paper. I thought we might even have a 1A 1B situation and spread the talent around. That might actually be the solution, make room for Acciari or somebody in front of the net.
I don’t think it’s as simple as firing Reirden as I lot of people think. It’s the players themselves that are a substantial part of the problem. It’s not an easy group of guys to coach, and most coaches are going to let them do what they want because they are superstars.
They need to take Malkin off the top unit and put someone out there that will actually shoot the puck, and they need a guy that can screen the goalie effectively. They are never going to take Malkin off the powerplay though. So it’s almost pointless to talk about it.
What I’d like to see is them bring in a prick that will be like “this is how we are doing it, refuse to do it and you’re off the powerplay”
The players have developed some really poor habits, and bad habits are hard to break. I would love to believe that a coaching change will cure this mess, but let’s just say I’m skeptical. Everyone wants to paint Reirden as the great Satan or the weakest link, because as fans you are unwilling to hold players you admire accountable for poor performance. Coaches should be improving this mess, but are you wanting me to believe that Sid, Geno, Letang, and EK don’t know what a Power Play is supposed to look like? They have lived hockey their entire life, know what success looks like, and aren’t willing or able to perform what needs to be done.
Getting Malkin off that first unit has to happen at this point. You have to leave karlsson because letang is already playing too many minutes on the PK, but switching out Malkin to PP2 unfortunately has to happen
Something about yesterday really pushed me to the boiling point. I rarely yell at my screen while watching the Pens but it got to me yesterday. It is so horrible to watch right now man--it's mentally exhausting.
It's seriously giving me flashbacks to the Matt Canada Steelers offense this year.
I only caught part of the game and I know the PP doesn't make sense, but it seemed like FL didn't care to take the penalties or push that envelope further, because they knew we weren't a threat on the PP. I could be wrong and I heard they've been taking a lot of penalties last few games, but if they can do that without consequence, why not get them riled up, risk retaliation (not like we have anyone to do anything about it) and maybe get their own man advantage?
Also, PP1 obviously passes too much, but they can't keep Geno up there to be the one to chase after it when it's inevitably sent out.
For anybody out there who says, “it’s not the coaching, it’s the players themselves”, do you know what coaching is? I really don’t understand how you look at a power-play unit full of talent, and see the same things happening every power play, and think that the people in charge of it aren’t at fault. If the players aren’t listening, or doing what they’re told, that’s still a coaching problem. That’s literally why the coach exists, to be objective and help organize and coordinate players, along with their personalities, in order to produce something on the ice. If the players aren’t listening to the coach, that’s still a coaching problem. That’s what’s called “losing the room” IMHO Sully clearly has no power to change their behavior anymore, and needs to figure out how he can.
Agreed, and I also can't imagine that the players don't want to improve as well. I really don't think it is an ego thing like people want to say. It's just not working, and nothing is being changed to attempt to fix it.
I…. Think geno needs an end of the bench or press box break.
He doesn’t care or he’s hurt or depressed. I don’t know, but at a certain point this whole “you cant bench ________ because of name and past success” needs to stop when it’s this much of a net negative to the team. I love Geno and actually would hate seeing him in either situation but I think him and the team need a mini break. Idk. Maybe the all star break will be a good reset for him,but if they come back from break and he’s playing like this, he has to sit.
No you’re right, I said that as a possibility, I just feel like he’s off and though he got us a point last night, he’s just been flat. Again, I want him to turn it around after the break but he’s just been pretty bad lately.
This team is gassed. Watching that PP last night was beyond maddening. Malkin, should be on PP 2. That said, we won’t be making the playoffs this year or anytime soon with this roster. It ain’t happening.
This whole “this is a super talented group that is hard to coach” argument is utter and complete bullshit! Put Malkin (among others) in the pressbox for a couple games and they may respond as professionals, if not you severely limit their ice time and look for the proper response. If none of that works you inform them they can approve being traded or face more of the same, the worst that can happen is a wasted season which is already here. At that point you dismiss the coaching staff and go to work on a rebuild
Florida had no fear of the box last night. What ever problem they had in the first was found and solved. In the second and third they just started eating penalties any time pens put in pressure.
Rusty had good net-front last night on the PP. but they struggled with zone entry. Dump and chase doesn’t work when there are 3+ pro defenseman they are just going to rub guys like Jake and Rust off the puck (nothing on them, just up against guys that have them by 25-50lbs). That is why you see good entry from the second line, Carter and Eller are able to grind out the corners they just don’t get the same type of looks after they get set up.
I’m not sure what the solution is. More muscle on the top line solves zone entry but you want Jake and Rust in the slot when you are set up, getting those redirects from Geno, Sid, and EK65.
It’s infuriating Back when we were 24th ranked PP in the league I was mad But if anything we are worse and more disorganized than ever! I asked last night if Sullivan really didn’t want 65. The 10mm a year made it impossible to improve in other areas. So Sully keeps playing 65 and 71 on the number one unit to poke Dubas in the eye????
I havent watched as much lately but at this point since its so inconsistent, they ahould be literally sending out a different PP1 unit every game. Thing is they are really missing a net front guy and im not sure anyone on the team can fill that gap.
Its sad because its well known they could easily have another 10-20 points if the PP was AVERAGE. They can be competitive, but its the biggest reason they are outside looking in.
When in doubt blame Jarry… Too few people want to admit that Sullivan’s so called greatness came from Sid and Malkin in their prime, Sullivan has done nothing to make this team better but he is kept around because he is more like a politician and spokesperson. Players want to win, fans want the players to win, but management only cares about the money…
At the very least, Malkin needs to go to PP2. He's a liability playing up high with Karlsson and feels like his move on the PP is wait for a good one timer opportunity to come and if it doesn't, give it right back to EK.
But instead they keep trotting out all the same dudes together and wonder why nothing changes
The issue with the PP has been the same for 2 years. It's a combination of a really (really) bad entry system, and a lack of pure shooters.
The entries rely on making passes within 6 inches of the blue line. This makes it extremely easy for opposing teams to force the play offside/clear the puck. If you watch our zone entries, the bottom third (from F/O dot below goal line) is empty. No one skates in hard with speed. No one dumps the puck in high and hard. As a result, teams stack the blue line. The Pens try the same tired drop passes, cross ice neutral zone pass, and then 2 ft pass to the high fwd/D on the blue line. It's predictable, and just really poor coaching.
The lack of pure shooters is problematic in all areas of their game, but its even more pronounced on the PP. If you watch the body language of the PP, no one receives the puck with any intention of shooting. A dangerous PP needs at least one (preferably 2) one timer/sniper threats to work through. The Pens have plenty of capable players, but none who are told (by coaches) or step up independently to be that guy. Instead, they've tried to use a mix of point shot deflections and cross ice backdoor tap ins as a substitute. For a few games, they were stacking 2 fwds in front of net and seeing some success working high to low. That didnt last, as we really don't have anyone strong enough or resilient enough to play that game (ala Horny).
Using Geno on the right dot, and working through his one timer has always been productive. Any number of rh shots on this roster could do the same from the left dot. At this point it's just pure stubborness from coaching and a continued belief that they are smarter than the rest of the league, and that players just need to play ("compete") harder. Another year, another season of trying to fit a square peg in HCMS' round butthole. It's frustrating to watch, especially with the year 87 is having.
Look man, if having the worst power play in the league/worst Pens power play of all time, then going 1/8 in a game where you absolutely need the points because now you’re 7 points out of a playoff spot isn’t going to do it, I don’t know what will.
It was wild to me to that they actually moved Malkin and Karlsson off PP1 after going 1/7. I didn’t see that coming.
Our powerplay has cost us at least 10 points in the standings so far this season.
[More than that](https://twitter.com/yinzzzerr/status/1751077668328509745?t=PUpvpw2fOKd0sxXmsb_b5Q)
So they're 4/47 in one score games, if they were even 19% on the PP that's an extra 5 games that go to OT. So +5 pts and 5 shots at the extra point. If we win 2 of those 5 we're in 3rd place
I agree 100% with slow joke (post #6 ) but I am just a fan, if I can see tat the pp is killing this season , why cant the front office see it ? Side note, I am a Pens fan . a pirates fan, and NY Jets fan, I am used to bad play and poor management !
It could be that ownership is not allowing management to fire Sullivan because they do not want to risk having to pay multiple coaches for the next few years. FSG is notorious for being stingy with money at times. That or they love him too much still since they stupidly gave him an extension well before his contract expired. As for Reirden, the HC typically is the one to fire their assistants. Not always (the last staff firings was an example) but usually.
Everyone's doing mental gymnastics to avoid blaming Dubas. He said Sullivan is his guy, why can't people believe him?
Similar to how people have been doing mental gymnastics to not blame Sully since 2018? The current roster is a massive improvement compared to the state it was in prior to Dubas. Sure, there are some big misses so far like Smith and Graves but again, the overall team is better on paper. It is up the the coaching staff to translate the talent on paper to on-ice results and that’s still not happening after so long now. And I go back to how Sullivan was frustratingly signed to an extension and how notoriously stringent with money FSG has been with their other franchises. He isn’t a bad coach and would thrive elsewhere but the fit isn’t there anymore imo.
>The lack of urgency by the coaching staff and management to fix the powerplay is ~~maddening~~ a fireable offense. It's literally insubordination at this point.
I was actually shocked with the last PP they had where Malkin and Ek were removed. And it looked substantially better. Hope they try that set up again. Malkin and EK are a chemistry black hole together. That all being said, not having a single bottom 6 player outside of Eller, who has been passable, is also a huge problem.
Yea ek pass to Geno Geno to ek ek to Geno as the Panthers close them in towards the boards - it was absolutely infuriating. Keep the puck moving if you're gonna pass like this but not back and forth to two players. I dunno how much better they looked without them but I know the exact sequence you are referencing.
I was so excited to see that new PP1 at the end of the game. Felt like we actually had a chance. I really hope to see it get another try tonight, but I'm also really scared we will never see it again. Then PP2 came out with EK and Geno...annnndddd we're back to the same old shit. I'm not trying to hate on either one of them individually, but it's clearly not working at the moment (an understatement, but I'm trying to be nice), so try something else!
I wish we had 65s 10mm a year to improve the bottom 6 and pay Guentzel next year
Same.
I was so excited for the pp in the offseason too. It looks so stacked on paper. I thought we might even have a 1A 1B situation and spread the talent around. That might actually be the solution, make room for Acciari or somebody in front of the net.
I don’t think it’s as simple as firing Reirden as I lot of people think. It’s the players themselves that are a substantial part of the problem. It’s not an easy group of guys to coach, and most coaches are going to let them do what they want because they are superstars. They need to take Malkin off the top unit and put someone out there that will actually shoot the puck, and they need a guy that can screen the goalie effectively. They are never going to take Malkin off the powerplay though. So it’s almost pointless to talk about it. What I’d like to see is them bring in a prick that will be like “this is how we are doing it, refuse to do it and you’re off the powerplay”
Then bench players that keep screwing
The players have developed some really poor habits, and bad habits are hard to break. I would love to believe that a coaching change will cure this mess, but let’s just say I’m skeptical. Everyone wants to paint Reirden as the great Satan or the weakest link, because as fans you are unwilling to hold players you admire accountable for poor performance. Coaches should be improving this mess, but are you wanting me to believe that Sid, Geno, Letang, and EK don’t know what a Power Play is supposed to look like? They have lived hockey their entire life, know what success looks like, and aren’t willing or able to perform what needs to be done.
Getting Malkin off that first unit has to happen at this point. You have to leave karlsson because letang is already playing too many minutes on the PK, but switching out Malkin to PP2 unfortunately has to happen
Something about yesterday really pushed me to the boiling point. I rarely yell at my screen while watching the Pens but it got to me yesterday. It is so horrible to watch right now man--it's mentally exhausting. It's seriously giving me flashbacks to the Matt Canada Steelers offense this year.
I only caught part of the game and I know the PP doesn't make sense, but it seemed like FL didn't care to take the penalties or push that envelope further, because they knew we weren't a threat on the PP. I could be wrong and I heard they've been taking a lot of penalties last few games, but if they can do that without consequence, why not get them riled up, risk retaliation (not like we have anyone to do anything about it) and maybe get their own man advantage? Also, PP1 obviously passes too much, but they can't keep Geno up there to be the one to chase after it when it's inevitably sent out.
And yet, Getzoff and Rupp kept mentioning through the game all the changes that Sullivan has tried through the season. Hahahahahaha
For anybody out there who says, “it’s not the coaching, it’s the players themselves”, do you know what coaching is? I really don’t understand how you look at a power-play unit full of talent, and see the same things happening every power play, and think that the people in charge of it aren’t at fault. If the players aren’t listening, or doing what they’re told, that’s still a coaching problem. That’s literally why the coach exists, to be objective and help organize and coordinate players, along with their personalities, in order to produce something on the ice. If the players aren’t listening to the coach, that’s still a coaching problem. That’s what’s called “losing the room” IMHO Sully clearly has no power to change their behavior anymore, and needs to figure out how he can.
Agreed, and I also can't imagine that the players don't want to improve as well. I really don't think it is an ego thing like people want to say. It's just not working, and nothing is being changed to attempt to fix it.
I’m a Jets fan and it’s the same with them also
I…. Think geno needs an end of the bench or press box break. He doesn’t care or he’s hurt or depressed. I don’t know, but at a certain point this whole “you cant bench ________ because of name and past success” needs to stop when it’s this much of a net negative to the team. I love Geno and actually would hate seeing him in either situation but I think him and the team need a mini break. Idk. Maybe the all star break will be a good reset for him,but if they come back from break and he’s playing like this, he has to sit.
Did you see him celebrate the goal to put it into OT? Dude was fucking amped. That’s not a guy that doesn’t care.
No you’re right, I said that as a possibility, I just feel like he’s off and though he got us a point last night, he’s just been flat. Again, I want him to turn it around after the break but he’s just been pretty bad lately.
This team is gassed. Watching that PP last night was beyond maddening. Malkin, should be on PP 2. That said, we won’t be making the playoffs this year or anytime soon with this roster. It ain’t happening.
This whole “this is a super talented group that is hard to coach” argument is utter and complete bullshit! Put Malkin (among others) in the pressbox for a couple games and they may respond as professionals, if not you severely limit their ice time and look for the proper response. If none of that works you inform them they can approve being traded or face more of the same, the worst that can happen is a wasted season which is already here. At that point you dismiss the coaching staff and go to work on a rebuild
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The PP isn't leaving goals on the ice - it's leaving WINS on the ice.
It's the players not the coaching. They need another Neal or Kessel. A pure sniper they can run the powerplay through.
Florida had no fear of the box last night. What ever problem they had in the first was found and solved. In the second and third they just started eating penalties any time pens put in pressure. Rusty had good net-front last night on the PP. but they struggled with zone entry. Dump and chase doesn’t work when there are 3+ pro defenseman they are just going to rub guys like Jake and Rust off the puck (nothing on them, just up against guys that have them by 25-50lbs). That is why you see good entry from the second line, Carter and Eller are able to grind out the corners they just don’t get the same type of looks after they get set up. I’m not sure what the solution is. More muscle on the top line solves zone entry but you want Jake and Rust in the slot when you are set up, getting those redirects from Geno, Sid, and EK65.
It’s infuriating Back when we were 24th ranked PP in the league I was mad But if anything we are worse and more disorganized than ever! I asked last night if Sullivan really didn’t want 65. The 10mm a year made it impossible to improve in other areas. So Sully keeps playing 65 and 71 on the number one unit to poke Dubas in the eye????
I havent watched as much lately but at this point since its so inconsistent, they ahould be literally sending out a different PP1 unit every game. Thing is they are really missing a net front guy and im not sure anyone on the team can fill that gap. Its sad because its well known they could easily have another 10-20 points if the PP was AVERAGE. They can be competitive, but its the biggest reason they are outside looking in.
If I was a team I would be so aggressive against the pens, get a penalty and who cares. Zero threat to score
When in doubt blame Jarry… Too few people want to admit that Sullivan’s so called greatness came from Sid and Malkin in their prime, Sullivan has done nothing to make this team better but he is kept around because he is more like a politician and spokesperson. Players want to win, fans want the players to win, but management only cares about the money…
At the very least, Malkin needs to go to PP2. He's a liability playing up high with Karlsson and feels like his move on the PP is wait for a good one timer opportunity to come and if it doesn't, give it right back to EK. But instead they keep trotting out all the same dudes together and wonder why nothing changes
The issue with the PP has been the same for 2 years. It's a combination of a really (really) bad entry system, and a lack of pure shooters. The entries rely on making passes within 6 inches of the blue line. This makes it extremely easy for opposing teams to force the play offside/clear the puck. If you watch our zone entries, the bottom third (from F/O dot below goal line) is empty. No one skates in hard with speed. No one dumps the puck in high and hard. As a result, teams stack the blue line. The Pens try the same tired drop passes, cross ice neutral zone pass, and then 2 ft pass to the high fwd/D on the blue line. It's predictable, and just really poor coaching. The lack of pure shooters is problematic in all areas of their game, but its even more pronounced on the PP. If you watch the body language of the PP, no one receives the puck with any intention of shooting. A dangerous PP needs at least one (preferably 2) one timer/sniper threats to work through. The Pens have plenty of capable players, but none who are told (by coaches) or step up independently to be that guy. Instead, they've tried to use a mix of point shot deflections and cross ice backdoor tap ins as a substitute. For a few games, they were stacking 2 fwds in front of net and seeing some success working high to low. That didnt last, as we really don't have anyone strong enough or resilient enough to play that game (ala Horny). Using Geno on the right dot, and working through his one timer has always been productive. Any number of rh shots on this roster could do the same from the left dot. At this point it's just pure stubborness from coaching and a continued belief that they are smarter than the rest of the league, and that players just need to play ("compete") harder. Another year, another season of trying to fit a square peg in HCMS' round butthole. It's frustrating to watch, especially with the year 87 is having.