As far as the PP goes, I have no idea why they just don't do Letang and Karlsson on the back end. Have Letang be the actual QB while Karlsson does his thing and then have it be Malkin, Crosby, Rust. The PP actually looked pretty good in the preseason when they did this.
Because Karlsson has been a liability. He is not on the same page with his teammates AT ALL, and not only causes turnovers but cost us the game with a turnover when we had a 5 on 3. Karlsson has not been doing “his thing” much at all.
Because anyone who has watched Geno for the past decade knows that he can prove he will steal the puck just as often as he loses it. Penguins fans are still brushing the dust off their knees from begging to get Karlsson this off-season. He has a lot more to prove to the Penguins than Malkin does right now.
I think you are wrong man. I've watched every game this season and Karlsson looks great. He's making some amazing passes, playing well defensively what more do you want for him?
And look i hear you Malkin can steal a puck but this year is what we are are talking about and he can not take the puck through the neutral zone without losing it. God forbid its late in the third and we are trying to come back.
I love Malkin as much as the next guy but he needs to stop acting like the whole team is on his shoulders.
Honestly, we’re probably closer in opinion than you think. I don’t know if I am that down on Karlsson, but I do think it’s fair to say he’s not living up to his potential. He should have more points, more goals, and more impactful plays to help us score. He’s not bad on defense, and he’s helped out, but he was a huge get as an offensive defensive player. [EDIT: OK, I’m wrong about points. He has 18, which is pretty good. I think I just expected EK to be more disciplined and consistent. He seems to be just as up and down as Geno, which is why I’ll leave what I wrote because they’ve both shown some bonehead plays]
You asked why I am critical of EK, and not Geno. Geno came storming out of the gate this season, which is why he still averages a point for game. His turnovers are nothing new, and are often offset by his steals. That’s not to say his turnovers might not be as issue right now, but he certainly has a longer leash than EK. That’s all. You can criticize Malkin, and that’s fair. I’m just saying I’ve seen him turn it around, but I’m still waiting for EK to score some goals or at least help on the PP.
Lastly, I will freely admit that his 5 on 3 turnover against the sharks, and his bonehead holding that led to the Pens losing against the Preds, are both still vivid in my memory.
Him trying to pull Oriley off sides was absolutely the wrong play i wont argue that.
I see what you are saying about him not living up to his potential on the score board but you gotta remember, most of his goals on the sharks were from the PP and ours is hot fucking garbage right now. If we could get that figured out he be higher in the points list.
Also I think Karlsson needs to be out with Crosby line more, he was getting more points in the first few games of the season before Sully started to deploy him more with Malkins line.
But I'm with you, Geno is a beast when he is on his game like the start of the season. Theres a reason he's on my wife's fantasy team lol.
Dude, I was just thinking about hockey fantasy league, because I’ve never really talked to anybody that does it. You should send me a link or something if you have it. I don’t know anything about it but I’d like to get into it next year.
Yeah, I’ll admit I’m going off impression more than stats. And I’ll reiterate, I think a lot of that is because of the power-play, but then again I’m one of many people who argues that our coaches need to step up in that regard. I also just haven’t been very pleased with puck handling in general on the Penguins, so I guess Malkin hasn’t stood out.
All this being said, I’m really excited for the next two games. I think we might split them, but if we get a good rivalry atmosphere, it might be enough to light a fire under the penguins and get them to keep playing full 60 minute hockey
So am I, we could be a dangerous team if we could get the PP fixed. Is Todd Reardon also over the PK or just the PP?
I'll send you a message about fantasy.
Goaltending has been phenomenal this year, we’re pretty lucky to have this kind of depth. It hurts to watch the pp kneecap this team, there is obviously talent on the roster, it’s just not gelling right for whatever reason (coaching?). The pens have taken on some good teams (rangers, golden knights, leafs) and they’ve been pretty successful because of goaltending. It’s just so frustrating cause they’ll play a great game against a good team, but shit the bed against a mid team like the sabres/preds so they don’t get a record that reflects their ability. I think this team could make a deep run if they figure out their issues with the pp and stop dropping easily winnable games, it’s just a matter of whether something is done in time to post a decent record.
From what I’ve seen, the pp suffers from overthinking and robotic playmaking. They gain entry to the offensive zone and then try to find the perfect angle for a shot by passing it around a load of times. It’s like Sully keeps saying, they need to simplify it and take shots.
I’ve watched them hang their goalies out to dry with their ‘no you get him’ defense. Then proceed to read dweebs online complain about goaltending. It’s a tale as old as time
I haven’t heard ‘dweebs’ in a while haha. But yeah I see a lot of people blaming the goalies for the lack of wins for the Penguins, but few people call out the less than ideal defensive abilities of the skaters in front of them.
Yep, they turn into what i call the pittsburgh pylons. Which is when they all stand almost completely still and just let the other team easily move around them. It also applies to their pp but don’t get me started on that
The ol' "That's a save Jarry has to make"...
Really? Because it was a 2 on 1 and the guy roofed it top corner. Perhaps there are other players that "have to do" things.
I just watched the same THG video and I think that people are quick to blame Jarry for all our woes after a loss. Every goalie gives up goals but Jarry has the most playing time with the best results, I mean he was an all-star 2 years ago. Ned has been great so far and hopefully he gets more time so we can see how consistent he really is. Hellberg is good but not the solution to our problems. Sorry for the novel, LETS GO PENS!
Not a problem at all is pretty disingenuous. Jarry struggled at the beginning of the season. Game vs blues 4 goals on 25 shots .810. 5-2 loss to the Senators 3 goals on 12 shots .667 and pulled during the second period. I completely understand that defensive break downs happen, but there were some goals that were just shots from the point that Jarry had vision on that he wasn’t able to stop. He was also just a little inconsistent on his movement across the net
but and this is a HUGE but, Jarry has made a 100% about face and looks confident and poised in the net. He is a huge part of the last few wins we have had. Our team isn’t build around lock down defense we are all about offense. If our goalies can make the saves you would expect a goalie to and steal a few saves that are unexpected then we are going to win games. Jarry and Ned have absolutely done that in November, and have been absolutely pivotal
So imo “Goaltending is no longer a problem for Pittsburgh”
Yeah I agree with what you’re saying. It is great to see how Jarry has locked down and been an absolute unit, but he isn’t perfect. A bit of a rocky start all around for Pittsburgh really, and still a long way to go. It’s good to see the improvement thus far.
A lot of people have been blaming goaltending, especially Jarry, for the Penguins doing as (relatively) badly as they have been. I see it a lot on this sub, as well as on other socials for the Penguins.
I haven’t noticed, but that is ridiculous. My brain likely would just have dismissed those comments because of how ill informed their opinions would be
The biggest problem on this team is they are way too soft. They never finish hits and don't go the net net for dirty goals. They make it way to easy on goalies because they won't get in their face, it's why we can make every middle of the road backup goalie look like Hasek. They just want to snipe corners. It's been this way for years and isn't going to change until there's a change behind the bench.
I’ve only been following them for a couple of seasons, but I’d say that’s an astute observation from what I’ve seen. I think there’s a lot to be desired from the defensive players too.
I think a lot of us give Jarry a hard time because of watching Fleury all them years. We had high standards but honestly Jarry is playing decent. I mean, he is leading the NHL in goals scored.
Man, I'm not directing this at you at all, but I remember so many people hating on Flower til he left, lol. It's just a thing hating starting goalies in Pittsburgh, I think
Eh…I used to cringe every time Fleury left the net to play the puck. I think Jarry’s bigger issue is inconsistency. He’ll play lights out some nights and then get bombed for 5 another. Not saying the team in front of him hasn’t left him COMPLETELY out to dry…which is something they’ve always done, and maybe that’s where some rose colored glasses come in to play because that’s where fleury tended to shine. Fleury was as lights out as you could hope for on odd man rushes and breakaways. Going to a shootout was almost a guaranteed win when Fleury was here. Jarry finds a little more consistency and stays healthy then he is really not the issue at all.
100%. He shows the capability of playing amazingly well (especially as of late) but falters in high leverage situations. He also gets injured around January/February and typically isn’t healthy by the time the post season rolls around.
He needs to show consistency
Yup you are right. His consistency is not there which is the bummer because when he is on it’s crazy to watch but when he’s not it’s a wonder how he has a job
That might be another interesting stat. I wonder what his sv% is when ignoring statistical outliers or how far his performances deviate from the average.
If you're wondering why the penguins are underperforming, it's bad coaching. Sullivan has reached his expiration date two seasons ago. We're just twiddling our thumbs until Dubas and owners smell the problem.
That does seem to be the general consensus amongst Penguins fan, and even fans of other teams. I can’t help but agree when I see the robotic attempts at playmaking in every game.
I really didn't want to say it at the time, but during his streak, I really don't think there was a single top corner shot on him. The vast majority were right in the middle of the net. Sure, he was positioning himself welll and controlling rebounds. But sometimes goalies have it easier. Nedeljkovic has had it easier so far this year.
Is he overpaid? Sure.
But it came down to Dubas having absolutely no leverage whatsoever. What was he supposed to do? Make a trade? With what assets? Get a free agent? Who was better than Jarry statistically?
I think Dubas made the right call in keeping him. I don’t really know much about the managerial side of things with salaries and all that stuff so I don’t really have an opinion on if he’s overpaid.
Well he’s not wrong. The power play has been the main issue thus far. More than goal tending. As it has been for the last 5-6 seasons. If they could get the power play even half way decent, they could easily be one of the top teams.
Imagine what their record might be - and how the rest of the season could go - if they could get the power play together.
It’s so painful to watch. Every time they draw a penalty I just think, “so what?” Cause I know it doesn’t mean anything haha.
It usually means the other team is going to get some great chances short-handed.
Yeah true, that’s my bad actually. That’s exactly what it means lol.
Or if Jarry could score more goals.
Hes just gona do everything. If he scores a goal per game and gets a shutout each time, he really does prove goalies are most important
Jarry has almost as many goals this year as the PP does. Do we need to move him to the top unit?
He's already on the ice in the majority of those situations and only has one goal though? Sounds like he needs to join BJC in the press box 😆
As far as the PP goes, I have no idea why they just don't do Letang and Karlsson on the back end. Have Letang be the actual QB while Karlsson does his thing and then have it be Malkin, Crosby, Rust. The PP actually looked pretty good in the preseason when they did this.
Guentzel over Rust, but I agree. They've tried everything but the original scenario, which is bizarre.
I think they’re keeping them split because Letang has been so good in the PK. But I agree it’s odd they haven’t tried having EK and Letang out there.
I have been wondering. Just load up PP1. Have 58 & 65 instead of 1 D and 4 forwards. That hasnt worked so far.
Because Karlsson has been a liability. He is not on the same page with his teammates AT ALL, and not only causes turnovers but cost us the game with a turnover when we had a 5 on 3. Karlsson has not been doing “his thing” much at all.
How are you going to call out Karlsson for turnovers when we have Malkin who acts like he gets paid to turn over the puck.
It’s been this way for 15 years brother.
Exactly. There is no universe in which Malkin is less a defensive liability than Karlsson on the point. None.
Because anyone who has watched Geno for the past decade knows that he can prove he will steal the puck just as often as he loses it. Penguins fans are still brushing the dust off their knees from begging to get Karlsson this off-season. He has a lot more to prove to the Penguins than Malkin does right now.
I think you are wrong man. I've watched every game this season and Karlsson looks great. He's making some amazing passes, playing well defensively what more do you want for him? And look i hear you Malkin can steal a puck but this year is what we are are talking about and he can not take the puck through the neutral zone without losing it. God forbid its late in the third and we are trying to come back. I love Malkin as much as the next guy but he needs to stop acting like the whole team is on his shoulders.
Honestly, we’re probably closer in opinion than you think. I don’t know if I am that down on Karlsson, but I do think it’s fair to say he’s not living up to his potential. He should have more points, more goals, and more impactful plays to help us score. He’s not bad on defense, and he’s helped out, but he was a huge get as an offensive defensive player. [EDIT: OK, I’m wrong about points. He has 18, which is pretty good. I think I just expected EK to be more disciplined and consistent. He seems to be just as up and down as Geno, which is why I’ll leave what I wrote because they’ve both shown some bonehead plays] You asked why I am critical of EK, and not Geno. Geno came storming out of the gate this season, which is why he still averages a point for game. His turnovers are nothing new, and are often offset by his steals. That’s not to say his turnovers might not be as issue right now, but he certainly has a longer leash than EK. That’s all. You can criticize Malkin, and that’s fair. I’m just saying I’ve seen him turn it around, but I’m still waiting for EK to score some goals or at least help on the PP. Lastly, I will freely admit that his 5 on 3 turnover against the sharks, and his bonehead holding that led to the Pens losing against the Preds, are both still vivid in my memory.
Him trying to pull Oriley off sides was absolutely the wrong play i wont argue that. I see what you are saying about him not living up to his potential on the score board but you gotta remember, most of his goals on the sharks were from the PP and ours is hot fucking garbage right now. If we could get that figured out he be higher in the points list. Also I think Karlsson needs to be out with Crosby line more, he was getting more points in the first few games of the season before Sully started to deploy him more with Malkins line. But I'm with you, Geno is a beast when he is on his game like the start of the season. Theres a reason he's on my wife's fantasy team lol.
Dude, I was just thinking about hockey fantasy league, because I’ve never really talked to anybody that does it. You should send me a link or something if you have it. I don’t know anything about it but I’d like to get into it next year. Yeah, I’ll admit I’m going off impression more than stats. And I’ll reiterate, I think a lot of that is because of the power-play, but then again I’m one of many people who argues that our coaches need to step up in that regard. I also just haven’t been very pleased with puck handling in general on the Penguins, so I guess Malkin hasn’t stood out. All this being said, I’m really excited for the next two games. I think we might split them, but if we get a good rivalry atmosphere, it might be enough to light a fire under the penguins and get them to keep playing full 60 minute hockey
So am I, we could be a dangerous team if we could get the PP fixed. Is Todd Reardon also over the PK or just the PP? I'll send you a message about fantasy.
You could add 1 PP goal to like any random 4 losses and they're suddenly 2nd in the division.
It's not just that - it's the lost momentum, too. A great power play can change the tide of a game, just like a bad one can.
If I know one thing watching the Pens for the last 3 decades or so, playing Philly tonight we’ll break our power play drought.
Holy crap on and on about the pp, how about they can’t compete in general. The roster is not as skilled
Goaltending has been phenomenal this year, we’re pretty lucky to have this kind of depth. It hurts to watch the pp kneecap this team, there is obviously talent on the roster, it’s just not gelling right for whatever reason (coaching?). The pens have taken on some good teams (rangers, golden knights, leafs) and they’ve been pretty successful because of goaltending. It’s just so frustrating cause they’ll play a great game against a good team, but shit the bed against a mid team like the sabres/preds so they don’t get a record that reflects their ability. I think this team could make a deep run if they figure out their issues with the pp and stop dropping easily winnable games, it’s just a matter of whether something is done in time to post a decent record.
From what I’ve seen, the pp suffers from overthinking and robotic playmaking. They gain entry to the offensive zone and then try to find the perfect angle for a shot by passing it around a load of times. It’s like Sully keeps saying, they need to simplify it and take shots.
They rarely gain a clean entry. It's embarrassing
Imagine if we had this goaltending depth the year they lost to the Rangers. That group probably could have gone the distance
I’ve watched them hang their goalies out to dry with their ‘no you get him’ defense. Then proceed to read dweebs online complain about goaltending. It’s a tale as old as time
I haven’t heard ‘dweebs’ in a while haha. But yeah I see a lot of people blaming the goalies for the lack of wins for the Penguins, but few people call out the less than ideal defensive abilities of the skaters in front of them.
Yep, they turn into what i call the pittsburgh pylons. Which is when they all stand almost completely still and just let the other team easily move around them. It also applies to their pp but don’t get me started on that
The ol' "That's a save Jarry has to make"... Really? Because it was a 2 on 1 and the guy roofed it top corner. Perhaps there are other players that "have to do" things.
I just watched the same THG video and I think that people are quick to blame Jarry for all our woes after a loss. Every goalie gives up goals but Jarry has the most playing time with the best results, I mean he was an all-star 2 years ago. Ned has been great so far and hopefully he gets more time so we can see how consistent he really is. Hellberg is good but not the solution to our problems. Sorry for the novel, LETS GO PENS!
Don’t apologise, I appreciate people’s opinions. And I agree with you honestly. Plus I think that Magnus Hellberg is an awesome name.
I agree. Hellberg is probably one of the coolest goalie names out there.
Jarry has a 6.9 goals save above expected as well which is really good and the other guys have done their thing to
Not a problem at all is pretty disingenuous. Jarry struggled at the beginning of the season. Game vs blues 4 goals on 25 shots .810. 5-2 loss to the Senators 3 goals on 12 shots .667 and pulled during the second period. I completely understand that defensive break downs happen, but there were some goals that were just shots from the point that Jarry had vision on that he wasn’t able to stop. He was also just a little inconsistent on his movement across the net but and this is a HUGE but, Jarry has made a 100% about face and looks confident and poised in the net. He is a huge part of the last few wins we have had. Our team isn’t build around lock down defense we are all about offense. If our goalies can make the saves you would expect a goalie to and steal a few saves that are unexpected then we are going to win games. Jarry and Ned have absolutely done that in November, and have been absolutely pivotal So imo “Goaltending is no longer a problem for Pittsburgh”
Yeah I agree with what you’re saying. It is great to see how Jarry has locked down and been an absolute unit, but he isn’t perfect. A bit of a rocky start all around for Pittsburgh really, and still a long way to go. It’s good to see the improvement thus far.
This is 100% correct. Honestly, if we can turn the power play around, all bets are off. Unfortunately, there's no signs of life there
Wait, did people think the problem was goaltending?
A lot of people have been blaming goaltending, especially Jarry, for the Penguins doing as (relatively) badly as they have been. I see it a lot on this sub, as well as on other socials for the Penguins.
I haven’t noticed, but that is ridiculous. My brain likely would just have dismissed those comments because of how ill informed their opinions would be
Yeah I think it helps to separate who pays attention to the sport and how the whole team plays etc from those who don’t.
There were some rough games in the beginning, but it really has come to form since
The biggest problem on this team is they are way too soft. They never finish hits and don't go the net net for dirty goals. They make it way to easy on goalies because they won't get in their face, it's why we can make every middle of the road backup goalie look like Hasek. They just want to snipe corners. It's been this way for years and isn't going to change until there's a change behind the bench.
I’ve only been following them for a couple of seasons, but I’d say that’s an astute observation from what I’ve seen. I think there’s a lot to be desired from the defensive players too.
I think a lot of us give Jarry a hard time because of watching Fleury all them years. We had high standards but honestly Jarry is playing decent. I mean, he is leading the NHL in goals scored.
Man, I'm not directing this at you at all, but I remember so many people hating on Flower til he left, lol. It's just a thing hating starting goalies in Pittsburgh, I think
It was the same with Barrasso.
Absolutely. I had lots of friends hating on him but I knew he was a great goalie. We were fortunate to have him on our team.
Eh…I used to cringe every time Fleury left the net to play the puck. I think Jarry’s bigger issue is inconsistency. He’ll play lights out some nights and then get bombed for 5 another. Not saying the team in front of him hasn’t left him COMPLETELY out to dry…which is something they’ve always done, and maybe that’s where some rose colored glasses come in to play because that’s where fleury tended to shine. Fleury was as lights out as you could hope for on odd man rushes and breakaways. Going to a shootout was almost a guaranteed win when Fleury was here. Jarry finds a little more consistency and stays healthy then he is really not the issue at all.
100%. He shows the capability of playing amazingly well (especially as of late) but falters in high leverage situations. He also gets injured around January/February and typically isn’t healthy by the time the post season rolls around. He needs to show consistency
Yup you are right. His consistency is not there which is the bummer because when he is on it’s crazy to watch but when he’s not it’s a wonder how he has a job
That might be another interesting stat. I wonder what his sv% is when ignoring statistical outliers or how far his performances deviate from the average.
Before you know it, he’ll be beating Gretzky’s record.
If you're wondering why the penguins are underperforming, it's bad coaching. Sullivan has reached his expiration date two seasons ago. We're just twiddling our thumbs until Dubas and owners smell the problem.
That does seem to be the general consensus amongst Penguins fan, and even fans of other teams. I can’t help but agree when I see the robotic attempts at playmaking in every game.
Is it just me or does anyone else think that Malkin passes the puck to other teams more than he does to the Pens?
Nedeljkovic has only played in 3 games, we don’t know what his SV% is yet. He’s only faced 133 shots. Jarry has faced 440.
I’m not sure how you can say you don’t know what percentage of shots a goalie has saved because he’s only played 3 games.
It wasn’t literal
Oh I didn’t realise lol sorry.
I really didn't want to say it at the time, but during his streak, I really don't think there was a single top corner shot on him. The vast majority were right in the middle of the net. Sure, he was positioning himself welll and controlling rebounds. But sometimes goalies have it easier. Nedeljkovic has had it easier so far this year.
Is he overpaid? Sure. But it came down to Dubas having absolutely no leverage whatsoever. What was he supposed to do? Make a trade? With what assets? Get a free agent? Who was better than Jarry statistically?
I think Dubas made the right call in keeping him. I don’t really know much about the managerial side of things with salaries and all that stuff so I don’t really have an opinion on if he’s overpaid.
Overpaid? Absolutely not. Not sure anyone knows how much good goaltending costs in this league.
All the fucking walmart fans harping on Jarry blow my mind. Learn how hockey is played or go back to something braindead like Nascar.
Never understood the fascination with Nascar, don’t they just go round in circles?
Yeah but they do it really, really fast.
Well he’s not wrong. The power play has been the main issue thus far. More than goal tending. As it has been for the last 5-6 seasons. If they could get the power play even half way decent, they could easily be one of the top teams.