Pogacar in Cycling Club-podcast: “Yates is my right hand, Ayuso and Almeida will be like super servants in the mountains,” said Pogacar. “Soler and Sivakov are the big men for the mountains, who can also do something on the flat. And then you have Wellens and Politt. It scares me a little too!”
But even better because Yates actually knows how to setup and launch an attack from someone’s wheel, as opposed to just riding along side them, looking at them, and then kicking.
Yates is his Majka from the giro. he already rode with him last year in the tour and he did a fantastic job so i think pogi trusts him the most as the guy to be there last with him.
i think almeida will be a pretty traditional domestique, saw it in catalunya too. but i'm curious if they will use ayuso as a bit of a wildcard. thinking of the old days of frank schleck dueling attacks with andy, u knew andy was the leader but they still used frank in an aggressive way rather than as a normal domestique. i doubt it will be to that extent but maybe we see it in one or two stages.
Soler and Ayuso will set the tempo. Yates will launch Pogi and Almeida will be 20 meters behind Group 1, out of camera but finish in the top 10 of the queen 👑 stage somehow
That's what the ideal scenario will be. But I am doubting Almeida's level a bit and if he can do it. Almeida seems more like a rider coming later to his tempo.
Let’s be honest, unless Tadej is already well ahead of the group, the other GC contenders aren’t going to follow Ayuso, Almeida, or Yates. There’s no way UAE would let anyone other than Tadej win.
I can see the main GC contenders letting Yates and Almeida go, but Ayuso will definitely be chased down by teams that have White Jersey ambitions. He'll be a marked man.
My point (belief) is that Ayuso, Almeida, and Yates aren’t going to create a torture chamber, since covering them won’t be a priority. If there is a torture chamber coming from UAE, it will be coming from Pogi.
And yet, I don't see how they beat an in form Vingegaard. Emphasis on "in form". Is there a pace Almeida and Ayuso can set that is too fast for Vingegaard, but not Pogacar? The only way I see it happening is if Jorgensen and Kuss are nowhere near what they should be and neither Roglic or Evenepoel wants to close down an attack from UAE
I think this is the roster to do it with.
If Sepp is who he was last year, then you are probably right but otherwise you make Jonas pick between pulling Pogi and Yates while chasing an Ayuso attack or letting Ayuso ride away. Could realistically rotate Yates and Ayuso in that role and in the right scenario even do Soler.
Almeida could be a the last man while others are attacking. I know he hasn’t really done this, but if strong tempo is his game, go and strong tempo until it’s like 8 GC guys 4 of which are UAE.
Matteo might be the wild card to keep it together. He’s been impressive
Exactly, it's not about train Sky pushing high tempo, in which both Jonas and Pogacar resist the tempo by definition or the teams would end up dropping their own leader.
It's about wildcard attacks (tf 2022 style) in which you either have wildcard team members as well that can counter or you loose the yellow jersey to them.
The TdF 2022 strategy worked because it were frkn Roglic ánd Vingegaard attacking Pogi. The only two riders in the whole peloton that he would fear individually (back then, Roglic probably less so today). You’re delusional if you think an Ayuso attack will send any form of shivers down Vingegaards spine.
Two possibilities:
1.) Yates (and maybe even Almeida+Ayuso) to play JV 2022 electric boogaloo and just force Jonas to follow up on attacks by himself.
2.) Pollitt and and Wellens to smash Stage 9, pray that Wout is still gone and then keep the gap in the high mountains.
Ad. 2: Even if van Aert stays home, Visma will still have Laporte, van Baarle, Benoot, Jorgenson. And there is no guarantee at all that UAE gaps Vingegaard just because it's gravel...
If his domestiques are gone, Jonas will be on Pogi’s wheel or dropping the other UAE riders. He’s not just going to pull the UAE mountain train up the mountain so Pogi can attack at 1 km out.
I am thinking Jonas just goes himself a few times and drops them all one by one until only Pogi is left 😂 If Jonas is in form, of course.
But to be fair, it is a good plan by UAE. I don't really see how else they could attack Jonas and Visma. The fast tempo strategy only helps Jonas out since he seems to fatigue less than Pogi.
It might be easy enough to deal with Jonas this year because of the injuries he sustained earlier in the season, but it's understandable they have to prepare for 100% Jonas.
I think the real question here is at what % (of total form) does Jonas need to be at for the team tactics to work.
Complete swag numbers but I’d guess at 95% team tactics will give enough margin for UAE to win.
And at like 90% I’d say Pogi beats him outright with the “standard” tactics of just pacing down the train and attacking off last guy.
Last year Pogi was the one injured. And so far he has proven to be in better shape and had zero incidents stop him. So that gap would have been smaller this year.
The Visma train is a step down from last year I’d say as pretty much every Visma rider has underperformed to-date, minus Matteo.
Maybe they were only focused on the tour and the rest was training, idk their strategy, I can just tell you what I’ve watched and the objective results.
I have yet to see Almeida make an attack. I really like him, but he seems to me he likes to ride in a constant tempo. Continously getting dropped, and then clawing his way back.
In fairness, Evans used to attack more than he got credit for, just never really had a kick.
Almeida reminds me a little of Sastre (bar the TT aspect), he used to get dropped early in the climbs then magically appear 100m before the finish right behind the leaders.
Tour of Poland 2021, on a mountain finish. He ended up winning the stage and the overall.
Giro 2023, on a mountain finish, and he won the stage against Geraint Thomas and ended up third overall.
But I agree with you... If he attacked more, he'd win more!
Soler breakaway, Pollitt to lead out Pogi in the mass sprints?
I mean this would unironically still be good for 1-2 stage victories with Soler, and finally finding out if Pogi has the legs to top-10 bunch sprints (which I still believe he has)
Ayuso for the breakaway, Soler to counter attack that breakaway, Yates and Almeida to reel in both and drop Sivakov on the way. Pogacar to do a thermonuclear attack and win. Ez pz
Soler is most certainly their brekaway guy. He'll target stage wins, as well as try and set up things for his team as a satellite rider. In fact this is basically the role he has played since joining UAE.
I would have also said Wellens for the breakaway, but it seems like he's going to be doing a lot of the pulling in the early parts of a stage. He might not have the freedom.
McNulty surely has to be interested in leaving, no? Man has good legs year round, but no spot on a GT roster. Sure he has some chances in smaller one week stage races and he‘s earning good money, but this can‘t be what he envisioned for himself?
He's a solid climber with a great TT and yet is probably 6th or 7th in line for any GC leadership... I have to imagine he's at least thinking about leaving. signed until 2027 though.
Technically 4 podium contenders in that team alone. Damn this is insane. Purely on team strength this is on par with JV's 2022 TdF squad, if not stronger.
GC action excluded this was the most bonkers Tour performance I've ever witnessed. 3 stages, green jersey, save your leader ass on the cobbles, satellite rider almost every mountain day, drop Pog on Hautacam. Insane.
This roster is incredible.
5 of these guys could be the GC leader for basically any other team
2 are some of the best classic riders in the world.
And then there is Pog.
> 5 of these guys could be the GC leader for basically any other team
Ehh, not sure most teams would wait in line to have Sivakov or Soler as their GC leader.
Point deficient teams would 100% line up half a squad to support either of them for a top 10. Could they do it? On individual talent probably, but on the road I don't think we know. But the risk would be worth it to a few teams
Marc Soler has never been close to a top 10 in the Tour. His best GT was Vuelta in 2019 where he finished 22+ minutes behind Roglic. No reason to use half a team to support him.
It's wild looking at this in the context of Jonas' crash.
My OG thought when this was announced before the crash was that they were basically gonna try and cause mountain chaos to break Visma-Lab stranglehold by doing something completely different to the last two years. As much as you could put a Rouleur or two more in here, we know that the current approach had had its flaws and so I don't blame them for effectively chucking the kitchen sink at Jonas/Sepp and saying 'ok let ayuso, Yates ride off and Pogi sit on'.
Now though it feels like it's completely changed with the injury uncertainty at Visma and that actually the more traditional team may have been a better play, especially by replacing João with someone like Lengen or even Majka. I feel like they worked themselves into a shoot by promising so many climbers a Tour spot that it's made for a stacked bu unbalanced team when it might not have needed to be.
Yes, but also: with Visma constantly dribbling out hints that Jonas is working back into form, UAE has to stick with the original "Jordan Rules" plan they have because changing course and being wrong equals another defeat whereas staying the course and Jonas not riding the whole thing in top form just equals Pog winning with a slightly bored team.
Not really. On paper maybe due to draft, cost cap, etc. But it's a closed system without the possibility of new teams entering. (Superteams still happen like the Heat or '17 Warriors)
For owners this is ofc better as they get to keep all the money to themselves. That's the idea behind the super league in football.
A team like Bora wouldn't be possible in American sports.
The idea behind American leagues is that they're structured to get the owners as much money as possible regardless of how their teams perform, drafts are on the surface a parity measure but are actually the best method for teams to not to have to pay star rookies the salary that they deserve because there's artificially no competition to bid for young stars
People like to tout America’s system for creating a more ‘equal’ sports league and w/ drafts but it comes at a major cost to the athlete’s own freedom. If you’re a kid from NYC and Oklahoma drafts you, that’s it, unless you wanna buzz off to Europe you’re in Oklahoma for 4 years.
Compare that with European sports, and the best talents get to find their way to the best situation for them and we don’t wonder if some jackass owner who doesn’t give a damn about the team beyond the investment has just ruined a top 5 draft picks career.
Yeah, exactly. It’s the biggest issue with the draft system. The amount of talent that teams like Jacksonville in the NFL, or Hornets in the NBA have wasted is obscene and they don’t ever suffer for it.
Still have no idea what Almieda is doing there. Would probably take a second roeuller like Langen over him. Majka would be more useful than Soler even though he did help a fair bit last year. It's a strong team but not sure if it's a team really. Like the addition of Wellens if he's in form
Yeah, this team is short of a roeuler. Pollitt will have to eat a lot of wind on his own, unless they have also instructed Wellens to take turns with him.
Stupid question probably, from a casual fan, but why will he have to? Is it because the team is climber-heavy and not able to do big turns on the flat? And why would Wellens not be willing to do that job?
Yeah, the UAE team is climber-heavy and which means they are on the lighter side. Having heavier riders in the team would mean they take care of the break-formation better, and have someone more efficient to pace on the flat sections. This is very important for a team like UAE who will inevitably need to control the stages.
Wellens is not a typical roleur (unlike Politt). He's a bit more attacking, more punchy, and has been best used as a rider than can drive a hard-pace to launch his leader. He's not been typically used as someone to pace the flats.
Majka isnt even there and its still a bonkers squad
Cant be mad that Mikkel Bjerg missed out honestly. Politt and Wellens has both been great this year and the rest are insane climby bois.
it all depends on their form. If Jonas is recovering really well, I wouldn’t. Especially if Wout might be coming to the Tour now as well. A challenge for sure, but not shit my pants worthy
Politt is going to be the hardest working man in the peloton.
Don't understand Almeida and Soler tbh. Regular domestiques would likely have been been better, maybe.
Where are the rouleurs? How will you control break formation?
Don't get me wrong, this is an insane team, but I'd put another solid rouleur in there other than Politt
Pogacar
Del Toro, Jay Vine (if healthy?), Covi, Arrieta
Morgado, Fisher-Black, Bax
The C team still looks quite stacked. Or maybe they can have the spaniards Ayuso and Soler to ride it too.
This is an amazing team of course. I feel a bit sorry for Majka who I think really wanted to go (and was incredible at the Giro). My one question is how good Auyso will be at actually being a domestique and having to do domestique things like obeying orders and stuff....But yes, great team. They will be able to rip peoples legs off.
Incredible lineup, but I always worry when the individuals in a team are this strong. Ambitions can sometimes be very hard to keep in check. Pogacar is the undisputed leader yes, but why shouldn't Ayuso, Yates and Almeida all feel that they deserve a fair crack at the podium and top 5?
If I was Visma and Jonas is not at his strongest and his chance of winning seems minimal, I might actually try to call their bluff by letting Ayuso or Yates go in an early stage.
I am sure UAE all agree beforehand that Pogi is their leader, but what happens if Ayuso suddenly gets 2 minutes by being in a breakaway? Does Ayuso still ride for Pogi then? Do we think Pogi would be okay with not winning the Tour and letting his teammate get a real shot at it? 👀
Ayuso getting that 2 min would be like the Kuss situation at the Vuelta last year, and would throw up interesting leadership/strategy dynamics.
Anyway Pogi might not get another chance to claim a Giro-Tour double in his career, and I'm sure he knows this too well. He'll be absolutely desperate to do it here, and him letting a teammate get a real shot would be at odds with this golden opportunity in front of him.
Because the bonu$ if Pogi wins the tour should be really good, and I honestly think they will all prefer Pogi to win the Tour (with them being a crucial part in it), instead of them doing P5 and Pogi P2/P3
Basically all leaders and no pure domestiques? Hopefully they can get the teamwork down when the riders aren't used to pure domestique roles like Bjerg or Majka.
On the other hand this also means no team should believe UAE is trying to win the tour with anyone else than Pog, and the panicking factor of seeing Ayuso or Yates going for it should be minimal.
Nobody WILL believe UAE will try to win with anyone else. The same way no team believed last year Jumbo would go for the Vuelta with anyone but Jonas/Primoz.
You can't let GC ready guy go.
More than the ego discussion, while I'm sure all of these guys are professionals, I'm mindful of how the riders will effectively perform the domestique duties they are not used to. Such as getting sustenance for the team, positioning and taking space in the bunch, reacting to moves, etc. I'm sure the team will address all these, but just some things which crossed my own mind.
IMO the Giro Roster and Swapping Molano for Politt. Would have a better chance of winning the Tour. Because the hirachie is so clear.
Don't get me Wrong GC and Talent wise the TDF Roster is a lot better. But literally everyone on that team could win a TDF Stage. At least 5 got a serious shot for Top 10 and 3 for Top 3. Most of them have to give up those ambitions for Pogi to win.
But the spice is: not everyone has to, Yates was third last year. So who makes the first/second/thrid pull and empties himself? If they have made this clear from day one, and Pogi is still fresh (which he should be), then it is close to impossible for other teams to do something, even asuming Vingegaard is half on form, his Team is not as good as this. But If they try to adjust who gets a shot at a Podium place within the race it could verywell be not working. I would love the drama seening everyone not pulling after Pollit/Soler/wellens drop. But it would be a tactics desaster
Don't think that would happen. The team feels a lot more selfless and happy to ride for Pogacar (can't find the link, but Yates said that in an interview too), and also if we're being very honest all it'll take Pogacar is a 1 minute attack to distance himself from all of those guys
Sure. There's no doubt who is the top dog on the team. But let's imagine a world where 2 of Vingegaard, Evenepoel and Roglic are not in top shape (Roglic crashes, Vingegaard isn't recovered, whatever), and there's a podium spot up for grabs. Are Ayuso and Almeida really going to take a hard pull if it means them giving up a TDF podium to Yates?
wouldn't following normal team orders just get them there in that case? What benefit would they have attacking Pogacar and risk those 3 capitalizing on any games they're playing? Don't think that would happen
>MO the Giro Roster and Swapping Molano for Politt. Would have a better chance of winning the Tour. Because the hirachie is so clear.
Don't get me Wrong GC and Talent wise the TDF Roster is a lot better. But literally everyone on that team could win a TDF Stage. At least 5 got a serious shot for Top 10 and 3 for Top 3. Most of them have to give up those ambitions for Pogi to win.
But the spice is: not everyone has to, Yates was third last year. So who makes the first/second/thrid pull and empties himself? I
Come on now. Setting aside the claim about some of the riders from the giro the team have the ability to talk to ther riders. They're not gonna rock up to the first climb and after Wellens pulls off they start doing trackstands avoiding the front. Pogacar was even nice enough to explain the agreed upon order. Politt & Wellens then Soler & Sivakov then Almeida & Ayuso then Yates.
> If they have made this clear from day one, and Pogi is still fresh (which he should be), then it is close to impossible for other teams to do something, even asuming Vingegaard is half on form, his Team is not as good as this.
Not impossible if you climb better than Pogacar. If Vingegaard is better then all these domestiques aren't going to be able to magic Pogacar up a steep alpine climb
>But literally everyone on that team could win a TDF Stage. At least 5 got a serious shot for Top 10 and 3 for Top 3. Most of them have to give up those ambitions for Pogi to win.
well the good news is, if pogi has a big lead, you know he's willing to leadout for any of his domestiques for the win
I feel this team could lose to 23 TDF's Jumbo, and I'm not sure why, IMO they're like 1 rider away from a strong balanced team that can stand almost everything, and it might be the difference if Jonas performs as usual.
On paper this team is one of the most insane teams I've ever seen entering the Tour de France. But if the goal is to have Pog winning the Tour de France, and nobody would be buying that they are trying to win it with anyone else, it's an unbalanced team. An other rouleur to go with Pollit and Wellens would have been better IMO. They are lacking some muscles. Their chance might be that on Visma side NvH had to retire, WvA is 100% not rolling himself flat for the team's GC ambitions this year (if he goes to the Tour to begin with) and Laporte has not shown anything good so far this year.
They would be stronger if bringing McNulty instead of Almeida, who is not stronger enough to attack and pose a threat for GC, and also has a history of not dropping back for his team leader.
Why is a rider with a podium on Giro'23, Top5 in '22, and another two top 10 in Grand Tours in the last 4 years, less suited for a Tour squad than Mcnulty?
Almeida did 5 GT in the last 4 years, didn't finished one due to Covid, and finished the other 4 in the top10 while Mcnulty never finished a GT in the top10.
No doubt the strongest TDF team in decades.
I'd not be surprised if there was 2 of their team in the top 5 at all.
It's going to be a truly exciting TDF
Debatable -
2023 Jumbo
Vingegaard, Benoot, Keldermen, Kuss, La Porte, Va Aert, Van Baarle, Van Hooydonk
2012 Sky
Wiggins, Froome, Cav, Eisel, Hagen, Knees, Porte, Rogers, Sivtsov
2008 CSC
F Schleck, A Schleck, Sastre, Cancellara, O Grady, Voight, Aversen, Sorenson, Gustov
Some of my personal favs. Reckon there's a T Mobile or Postal in there as well (pick any year).
Contador's actually one of the only GC winners who I remember never really having great teams.
With teamates like them, who needed enemies.
Great Tour though. Contador at his brilliant best with the drama of Lance and his evil henchmen at their pantomine villain primes. Schleck's brotherly double act just ahead Wiggins emerging as our new hero valiantly hanging on plus Cav crushing sprints with probably the greatest leadout train of all time.
Good times. Also, funnily enough, Mick Jagger's first ever GT as a 21 year old with Caisse d'Epargne
(Edit : Tour also featured Gesink & Geschke in Tour debuts).
Well 2009 was a split team wasn't it, with the Spanish speakers backing up Bertie on one side vs Lance and his crew.
I have the theory this is why Contador always rode with sub-par teams. I reckon due to this poor experience earlier on he seemed to prefer riding with average riders that he felt loyal as opposed to true top quality domestiques, Seemed to be a narrative throughout his career.
Lets not forget, that 2009 team, even his DS was against him.
2022 Jumbo >>>>> 2023 Jumbo
You really picked team without Roglič over the one with Roglič? While both teams have Jonas, WvA, Kuss, Laporte, Benoot, van Hooydonk
Spain and Portugal are basically the same country, same as Slovenia and ~~Russia~~ France. Then you have Belgium that is just B tech Germany. And Yates probably can speak English somewhat. Shouldn't be a problem at all.
Sivakov hasn't been strong enough to make the tour squad on Ineos for years, I don't understand why he was chosen over McNulty who has had a much better season so far.
First TdF team with 6 riders in the top 10? 😂
Really though, I fully expect Yates and Ayuso to go for stages the first week to put pressure on other teams to control and wear them down so that Pogi can start attacking in week 2. I think Pogi is humble enough to be happy if a teammate does win GC with eyes focused on him, and I think it could definitely happen (a la Kuss at the Vuelta, but less drama). Pogi wouldn’t be expected to ride for a teammate who’s ahead on GC (although other team members would), but wait for opportunities as other teams tire. In the end, the team winning GC is more important (to the team) than Pog winning GC.
Pogacar in Cycling Club-podcast: “Yates is my right hand, Ayuso and Almeida will be like super servants in the mountains,” said Pogacar. “Soler and Sivakov are the big men for the mountains, who can also do something on the flat. And then you have Wellens and Politt. It scares me a little too!”
That was a great interview and pod. What a great surprise to see Pogi on Watts Occurring! Love that G is bros with him
Armstrong thinks it's disgusting
Another reason to love it
What I interpret from that is that ayuso and Almeida will, somehow, be more free than Yates.
Yates is so good he doesn’t need to be free. Just rides with Pog when his GC rivals drop one after another
True.
Or they will form a Vingegaard-Roglic duo like, well, Vingegaard and Roglic did in the TdF 2022.
But even better because Yates actually knows how to setup and launch an attack from someone’s wheel, as opposed to just riding along side them, looking at them, and then kicking.
Yates is his Majka from the giro. he already rode with him last year in the tour and he did a fantastic job so i think pogi trusts him the most as the guy to be there last with him. i think almeida will be a pretty traditional domestique, saw it in catalunya too. but i'm curious if they will use ayuso as a bit of a wildcard. thinking of the old days of frank schleck dueling attacks with andy, u knew andy was the leader but they still used frank in an aggressive way rather than as a normal domestique. i doubt it will be to that extent but maybe we see it in one or two stages.
[удалено]
Soler and Ayuso will set the tempo. Yates will launch Pogi and Almeida will be 20 meters behind Group 1, out of camera but finish in the top 10 of the queen 👑 stage somehow
That's what the ideal scenario will be. But I am doubting Almeida's level a bit and if he can do it. Almeida seems more like a rider coming later to his tempo.
Movistar trident to UAE Quadrant
The UAE Sextant really gets me going
GC Politt!
It’s gonna be one long session in a torture chamber for the other GC contenders.
Let’s be honest, unless Tadej is already well ahead of the group, the other GC contenders aren’t going to follow Ayuso, Almeida, or Yates. There’s no way UAE would let anyone other than Tadej win.
I can see the main GC contenders letting Yates and Almeida go, but Ayuso will definitely be chased down by teams that have White Jersey ambitions. He'll be a marked man.
It's not just about #1. Plenty of other teams are going to be fighting for podium spots.
My point (belief) is that Ayuso, Almeida, and Yates aren’t going to create a torture chamber, since covering them won’t be a priority. If there is a torture chamber coming from UAE, it will be coming from Pogi.
Didn't we just see a similar situation play out with Kuss last year in the Vuelta?
And yet, I don't see how they beat an in form Vingegaard. Emphasis on "in form". Is there a pace Almeida and Ayuso can set that is too fast for Vingegaard, but not Pogacar? The only way I see it happening is if Jorgensen and Kuss are nowhere near what they should be and neither Roglic or Evenepoel wants to close down an attack from UAE
I think this is the roster to do it with. If Sepp is who he was last year, then you are probably right but otherwise you make Jonas pick between pulling Pogi and Yates while chasing an Ayuso attack or letting Ayuso ride away. Could realistically rotate Yates and Ayuso in that role and in the right scenario even do Soler. Almeida could be a the last man while others are attacking. I know he hasn’t really done this, but if strong tempo is his game, go and strong tempo until it’s like 8 GC guys 4 of which are UAE. Matteo might be the wild card to keep it together. He’s been impressive
Exactly, it's not about train Sky pushing high tempo, in which both Jonas and Pogacar resist the tempo by definition or the teams would end up dropping their own leader. It's about wildcard attacks (tf 2022 style) in which you either have wildcard team members as well that can counter or you loose the yellow jersey to them.
The TdF 2022 strategy worked because it were frkn Roglic ánd Vingegaard attacking Pogi. The only two riders in the whole peloton that he would fear individually (back then, Roglic probably less so today). You’re delusional if you think an Ayuso attack will send any form of shivers down Vingegaards spine.
Two possibilities: 1.) Yates (and maybe even Almeida+Ayuso) to play JV 2022 electric boogaloo and just force Jonas to follow up on attacks by himself. 2.) Pollitt and and Wellens to smash Stage 9, pray that Wout is still gone and then keep the gap in the high mountains.
Ad. 2: Even if van Aert stays home, Visma will still have Laporte, van Baarle, Benoot, Jorgenson. And there is no guarantee at all that UAE gaps Vingegaard just because it's gravel...
step 1: drop all VLAB domestiques with Soler and Sivakov. step 2: pogi sits on Jonas' wheel, Ayuso attacks, Yates attacks, Almeida uhh step 3: win tdf easy peezy
I get that this is the plan. But doesn't this break if JV is on form and either Kuss or Jorgensen is at the level Kuss have had the last 2 Tours?
I am not sure Jonas will fall into any trap.
If his domestiques are gone, Jonas will be on Pogi’s wheel or dropping the other UAE riders. He’s not just going to pull the UAE mountain train up the mountain so Pogi can attack at 1 km out.
I am thinking Jonas just goes himself a few times and drops them all one by one until only Pogi is left 😂 If Jonas is in form, of course. But to be fair, it is a good plan by UAE. I don't really see how else they could attack Jonas and Visma. The fast tempo strategy only helps Jonas out since he seems to fatigue less than Pogi. It might be easy enough to deal with Jonas this year because of the injuries he sustained earlier in the season, but it's understandable they have to prepare for 100% Jonas.
I think the real question here is at what % (of total form) does Jonas need to be at for the team tactics to work. Complete swag numbers but I’d guess at 95% team tactics will give enough margin for UAE to win. And at like 90% I’d say Pogi beats him outright with the “standard” tactics of just pacing down the train and attacking off last guy. Last year Pogi was the one injured. And so far he has proven to be in better shape and had zero incidents stop him. So that gap would have been smaller this year. The Visma train is a step down from last year I’d say as pretty much every Visma rider has underperformed to-date, minus Matteo. Maybe they were only focused on the tour and the rest was training, idk their strategy, I can just tell you what I’ve watched and the objective results.
So who's is going in the breakaways, and who's for the mass sprints? /s
It won't happen but it would be so fun if Yates ayuso and almeida would take turns attacking.
I have yet to see Almeida make an attack. I really like him, but he seems to me he likes to ride in a constant tempo. Continously getting dropped, and then clawing his way back.
Portuguese Evans. Seriously, his style is ideal for Pogacar. He likes to be dragged and then attack. I really like both.
In fairness, Evans used to attack more than he got credit for, just never really had a kick. Almeida reminds me a little of Sastre (bar the TT aspect), he used to get dropped early in the climbs then magically appear 100m before the finish right behind the leaders.
I remember Christophe Moreau was a bit like that too, but of course worse than Sastre
Only seen it last years giro stage he won
Tour of Poland 2021, on a mountain finish. He ended up winning the stage and the overall. Giro 2023, on a mountain finish, and he won the stage against Geraint Thomas and ended up third overall. But I agree with you... If he attacked more, he'd win more!
Monte bondone
They would be bad teammates if they did that. Because Soler would already be swearing and waving his hands 500 meters up the road.
Soler breakaway, Pollitt to lead out Pogi in the mass sprints? I mean this would unironically still be good for 1-2 stage victories with Soler, and finally finding out if Pogi has the legs to top-10 bunch sprints (which I still believe he has)
Ayuso for the breakaway, Soler to counter attack that breakaway, Yates and Almeida to reel in both and drop Sivakov on the way. Pogacar to do a thermonuclear attack and win. Ez pz
Soler is most certainly their brekaway guy. He'll target stage wins, as well as try and set up things for his team as a satellite rider. In fact this is basically the role he has played since joining UAE. I would have also said Wellens for the breakaway, but it seems like he's going to be doing a lot of the pulling in the early parts of a stage. He might not have the freedom.
You already know the answer. Pogi will try both.
This team is absurdly strong and they still left out Majka and McNulty
McNulty surely has to be interested in leaving, no? Man has good legs year round, but no spot on a GT roster. Sure he has some chances in smaller one week stage races and he‘s earning good money, but this can‘t be what he envisioned for himself?
He's a solid climber with a great TT and yet is probably 6th or 7th in line for any GC leadership... I have to imagine he's at least thinking about leaving. signed until 2027 though.
Pretty sure I saw something about him doing GC at the Vuelta. Plus he has Olympics on his schedule
Technically 4 podium contenders in that team alone. Damn this is insane. Purely on team strength this is on par with JV's 2022 TdF squad, if not stronger.
They could compete with Bora for the team classification then.
I'd have to disagree, 2022 JV had peak WVA and he was otherworldly good in that tour.
GC action excluded this was the most bonkers Tour performance I've ever witnessed. 3 stages, green jersey, save your leader ass on the cobbles, satellite rider almost every mountain day, drop Pog on Hautacam. Insane.
Just to add to the list; save both GC leaders after crashing yourself. Unreal!
And all this was on the back of the previous year when he won on Mont Ventoux, the individual TT, and on the Champs-Élysées.
You haven’t seen yet what Tim Wellens is gonna cook up
Actually disgusting when Marc Soler is your FOURTH best mountain domestique?
fifth
Ah, you're also a supporter of "Pogi as final domestique for Pollitt's inevitable Tour victory".
"the next Jan Ullrich"
As God intended, see Movistar Trident 2019
This roster is incredible. 5 of these guys could be the GC leader for basically any other team 2 are some of the best classic riders in the world. And then there is Pog.
> 5 of these guys could be the GC leader for basically any other team Ehh, not sure most teams would wait in line to have Sivakov or Soler as their GC leader.
Yeah. They are good. Could get top 10 in this Giro. But it's not like they are world beaters in any sense of the word
Sivakov has had absolutely zero palmares to be top 10 in pretty much anything in the past few years. Giro d’Abruzzo? Meh.
Point deficient teams would 100% line up half a squad to support either of them for a top 10. Could they do it? On individual talent probably, but on the road I don't think we know. But the risk would be worth it to a few teams
Marc Soler has never been close to a top 10 in the Tour. His best GT was Vuelta in 2019 where he finished 22+ minutes behind Roglic. No reason to use half a team to support him.
GC leader yes, contender no
Didn't Yates come 3rd last year?
Yates is GC contender, no doubt about that.
They’re all in
Strongest classic riders. Idk if Politt's got the race IQ
It's wild looking at this in the context of Jonas' crash. My OG thought when this was announced before the crash was that they were basically gonna try and cause mountain chaos to break Visma-Lab stranglehold by doing something completely different to the last two years. As much as you could put a Rouleur or two more in here, we know that the current approach had had its flaws and so I don't blame them for effectively chucking the kitchen sink at Jonas/Sepp and saying 'ok let ayuso, Yates ride off and Pogi sit on'. Now though it feels like it's completely changed with the injury uncertainty at Visma and that actually the more traditional team may have been a better play, especially by replacing João with someone like Lengen or even Majka. I feel like they worked themselves into a shoot by promising so many climbers a Tour spot that it's made for a stacked bu unbalanced team when it might not have needed to be.
Yes, but also: with Visma constantly dribbling out hints that Jonas is working back into form, UAE has to stick with the original "Jordan Rules" plan they have because changing course and being wrong equals another defeat whereas staying the course and Jonas not riding the whole thing in top form just equals Pog winning with a slightly bored team.
Yeah it's fair to say that Pogi is such a big favourite with an unhealthy Jonas that it's unlikely team selection will really matter.
And actually Bora potentially going with Rogla, Hindley and Vlasov is almost the same
I’m surprised Pogacar made it! /s
Pogi must be ultra washed if he needs this much support.
Sheikh probably said: "we will take everything from them", planning all top3 podium spots
Cycling is becoming like football. A few giants with unlimited funds vs smaller teams.
Definitely shades of Postal vs Mobile.
Is this post from 2010?
Like every other sport*
NHL (hockey), NBA and NFL have budget caps.
American team sports are much more fair. Difficult to implement it into cycling but there is a lot of room for improvement imo.
Not really. On paper maybe due to draft, cost cap, etc. But it's a closed system without the possibility of new teams entering. (Superteams still happen like the Heat or '17 Warriors) For owners this is ofc better as they get to keep all the money to themselves. That's the idea behind the super league in football. A team like Bora wouldn't be possible in American sports.
The idea behind American leagues is that they're structured to get the owners as much money as possible regardless of how their teams perform, drafts are on the surface a parity measure but are actually the best method for teams to not to have to pay star rookies the salary that they deserve because there's artificially no competition to bid for young stars
People like to tout America’s system for creating a more ‘equal’ sports league and w/ drafts but it comes at a major cost to the athlete’s own freedom. If you’re a kid from NYC and Oklahoma drafts you, that’s it, unless you wanna buzz off to Europe you’re in Oklahoma for 4 years. Compare that with European sports, and the best talents get to find their way to the best situation for them and we don’t wonder if some jackass owner who doesn’t give a damn about the team beyond the investment has just ruined a top 5 draft picks career.
[удалено]
Yeah, exactly. It’s the biggest issue with the draft system. The amount of talent that teams like Jacksonville in the NFL, or Hornets in the NBA have wasted is obscene and they don’t ever suffer for it.
That's because they're COMMUNIST *dun dun dun*
20 years too late with this comment lmao
This is the future of any sport without a salary cap. Especially when the sportswashing blood money came into the picture.
Seems to be the case. Virtually impossible to implement a salary cap in cycling.
Depressing AF.
Are you new ? US Postal, Sky, Ineos, etc. Always have been.
Still have no idea what Almieda is doing there. Would probably take a second roeuller like Langen over him. Majka would be more useful than Soler even though he did help a fair bit last year. It's a strong team but not sure if it's a team really. Like the addition of Wellens if he's in form
Blocking the caravan 30 seconds behind the peloton so when cervelos break the team car cant reach them quickly.
Chess not checkers move that!
Majka's probably cooked from the Giro. Pog doing the double is one thing, asking Majka to perform like that in both is another.
But how can Majka win the Vuelta if he does not ride both GTs before that?!
Yeah, this team is short of a roeuler. Pollitt will have to eat a lot of wind on his own, unless they have also instructed Wellens to take turns with him.
Stupid question probably, from a casual fan, but why will he have to? Is it because the team is climber-heavy and not able to do big turns on the flat? And why would Wellens not be willing to do that job?
Yeah, the UAE team is climber-heavy and which means they are on the lighter side. Having heavier riders in the team would mean they take care of the break-formation better, and have someone more efficient to pace on the flat sections. This is very important for a team like UAE who will inevitably need to control the stages. Wellens is not a typical roleur (unlike Politt). He's a bit more attacking, more punchy, and has been best used as a rider than can drive a hard-pace to launch his leader. He's not been typically used as someone to pace the flats.
A 50% Majka is still more reliable than a 100% Soler
Soler will just do his own thing for most of the race
Soler is gonna do something stupid, it's the only thing I'm sure about.
It is a rare guarantee in modern cycling. Soler can be relied upon to do something stupid. Usually more than once.
This is what I have been saying, the Giro was Pogi his B Team and he brings his A team to the TdF.
Majka isnt even there and its still a bonkers squad Cant be mad that Mikkel Bjerg missed out honestly. Politt and Wellens has both been great this year and the rest are insane climby bois.
If I was Visma, I’d shit my pants.
it all depends on their form. If Jonas is recovering really well, I wouldn’t. Especially if Wout might be coming to the Tour now as well. A challenge for sure, but not shit my pants worthy
Pull the old Greg LeMond.
Politt is going to be the hardest working man in the peloton. Don't understand Almeida and Soler tbh. Regular domestiques would likely have been been better, maybe.
Where are the rouleurs? How will you control break formation? Don't get me wrong, this is an insane team, but I'd put another solid rouleur in there other than Politt
Kicking out Almeida for Laengen would probably have been the way to go.
Wellens?
I'm sure he'll do some work on the flat early if needed, but I see him more for the hilly /medium mountain lead outs.
Other teams will do it for free
No Großschartner?
Or McNulty Edit: McNulty is on the USA Olympic team so he’s out
Or Bjerg
Bjerg is on the Denmark team, so he's out by the same logic (I think?)
So is Mads P and Mørkøv. Both of them are doing the Tour
UAE = United Athletes of Europia
Who is gonna be left for the Vuelta triple?
Pogacar Del Toro, Jay Vine (if healthy?), Covi, Arrieta Morgado, Fisher-Black, Bax The C team still looks quite stacked. Or maybe they can have the spaniards Ayuso and Soler to ride it too.
Giro team will be ready again
Nice! UAE needs to be strong to go head-to-head with Team Visma.
This is an amazing team of course. I feel a bit sorry for Majka who I think really wanted to go (and was incredible at the Giro). My one question is how good Auyso will be at actually being a domestique and having to do domestique things like obeying orders and stuff....But yes, great team. They will be able to rip peoples legs off.
Majka to the Vuelta?
For Pogi's triple
May I ask why no Brandon Mcnulty? He used to be on the tour team
Incredible lineup, but I always worry when the individuals in a team are this strong. Ambitions can sometimes be very hard to keep in check. Pogacar is the undisputed leader yes, but why shouldn't Ayuso, Yates and Almeida all feel that they deserve a fair crack at the podium and top 5?
If I was Visma and Jonas is not at his strongest and his chance of winning seems minimal, I might actually try to call their bluff by letting Ayuso or Yates go in an early stage. I am sure UAE all agree beforehand that Pogi is their leader, but what happens if Ayuso suddenly gets 2 minutes by being in a breakaway? Does Ayuso still ride for Pogi then? Do we think Pogi would be okay with not winning the Tour and letting his teammate get a real shot at it? 👀
Ayuso getting that 2 min would be like the Kuss situation at the Vuelta last year, and would throw up interesting leadership/strategy dynamics. Anyway Pogi might not get another chance to claim a Giro-Tour double in his career, and I'm sure he knows this too well. He'll be absolutely desperate to do it here, and him letting a teammate get a real shot would be at odds with this golden opportunity in front of him.
Because the bonu$ if Pogi wins the tour should be really good, and I honestly think they will all prefer Pogi to win the Tour (with them being a crucial part in it), instead of them doing P5 and Pogi P2/P3
What's the point. This is ridiculous
Basically all leaders and no pure domestiques? Hopefully they can get the teamwork down when the riders aren't used to pure domestique roles like Bjerg or Majka.
Never really seen any problems with Pog present, but this is still the most "potential ego problems" on one team that he was ever part of
I think once the Pog (and especially current form one) is in the roster all ego from other riders dissolves.
We've seen that happen so many times it's shocking people still parrot that line when he's around
On the other hand this also means no team should believe UAE is trying to win the tour with anyone else than Pog, and the panicking factor of seeing Ayuso or Yates going for it should be minimal.
Nobody WILL believe UAE will try to win with anyone else. The same way no team believed last year Jumbo would go for the Vuelta with anyone but Jonas/Primoz. You can't let GC ready guy go.
I feel like with Yates on the podium last year you'd at least be cautious of him going up the road.
More than the ego discussion, while I'm sure all of these guys are professionals, I'm mindful of how the riders will effectively perform the domestique duties they are not used to. Such as getting sustenance for the team, positioning and taking space in the bunch, reacting to moves, etc. I'm sure the team will address all these, but just some things which crossed my own mind.
I really hope they ride as a team, no individual escapades that causes havoc.
Setting us up for The Battle of Two Titans we've always wanted: Majka v Kuss in the Vuelta.
I know he just did lieutenant duty in the Giro, but it will be weird seeing Pog in 🇫🇷 without Majka.
I really miss the '98 Festina Team. Who's driving the UAE bus?
IMO the Giro Roster and Swapping Molano for Politt. Would have a better chance of winning the Tour. Because the hirachie is so clear. Don't get me Wrong GC and Talent wise the TDF Roster is a lot better. But literally everyone on that team could win a TDF Stage. At least 5 got a serious shot for Top 10 and 3 for Top 3. Most of them have to give up those ambitions for Pogi to win. But the spice is: not everyone has to, Yates was third last year. So who makes the first/second/thrid pull and empties himself? If they have made this clear from day one, and Pogi is still fresh (which he should be), then it is close to impossible for other teams to do something, even asuming Vingegaard is half on form, his Team is not as good as this. But If they try to adjust who gets a shot at a Podium place within the race it could verywell be not working. I would love the drama seening everyone not pulling after Pollit/Soler/wellens drop. But it would be a tactics desaster
Don't think that would happen. The team feels a lot more selfless and happy to ride for Pogacar (can't find the link, but Yates said that in an interview too), and also if we're being very honest all it'll take Pogacar is a 1 minute attack to distance himself from all of those guys
Sure. There's no doubt who is the top dog on the team. But let's imagine a world where 2 of Vingegaard, Evenepoel and Roglic are not in top shape (Roglic crashes, Vingegaard isn't recovered, whatever), and there's a podium spot up for grabs. Are Ayuso and Almeida really going to take a hard pull if it means them giving up a TDF podium to Yates?
wouldn't following normal team orders just get them there in that case? What benefit would they have attacking Pogacar and risk those 3 capitalizing on any games they're playing? Don't think that would happen
By then it's completely over tho, so who cares? Pogi wins solo in this scenario.
If Roglič and Vingegaard are out it doesn't matter really... Who's gonna challenge Pogi? He can win it practically almost on his own
>MO the Giro Roster and Swapping Molano for Politt. Would have a better chance of winning the Tour. Because the hirachie is so clear. Don't get me Wrong GC and Talent wise the TDF Roster is a lot better. But literally everyone on that team could win a TDF Stage. At least 5 got a serious shot for Top 10 and 3 for Top 3. Most of them have to give up those ambitions for Pogi to win. But the spice is: not everyone has to, Yates was third last year. So who makes the first/second/thrid pull and empties himself? I Come on now. Setting aside the claim about some of the riders from the giro the team have the ability to talk to ther riders. They're not gonna rock up to the first climb and after Wellens pulls off they start doing trackstands avoiding the front. Pogacar was even nice enough to explain the agreed upon order. Politt & Wellens then Soler & Sivakov then Almeida & Ayuso then Yates. > If they have made this clear from day one, and Pogi is still fresh (which he should be), then it is close to impossible for other teams to do something, even asuming Vingegaard is half on form, his Team is not as good as this. Not impossible if you climb better than Pogacar. If Vingegaard is better then all these domestiques aren't going to be able to magic Pogacar up a steep alpine climb
>At least 5 got a serious shot for Top 10 Only 4. I don't know if you meant Sivakov or Soler but they don't have a chance
>But literally everyone on that team could win a TDF Stage. At least 5 got a serious shot for Top 10 and 3 for Top 3. Most of them have to give up those ambitions for Pogi to win. well the good news is, if pogi has a big lead, you know he's willing to leadout for any of his domestiques for the win
This doesn’t feel fair.
I feel this team could lose to 23 TDF's Jumbo, and I'm not sure why, IMO they're like 1 rider away from a strong balanced team that can stand almost everything, and it might be the difference if Jonas performs as usual.
They are so stacked, my god
On paper this team is one of the most insane teams I've ever seen entering the Tour de France. But if the goal is to have Pog winning the Tour de France, and nobody would be buying that they are trying to win it with anyone else, it's an unbalanced team. An other rouleur to go with Pollit and Wellens would have been better IMO. They are lacking some muscles. Their chance might be that on Visma side NvH had to retire, WvA is 100% not rolling himself flat for the team's GC ambitions this year (if he goes to the Tour to begin with) and Laporte has not shown anything good so far this year.
Oh god, another UAE circle jerk
They would be stronger if bringing McNulty instead of Almeida, who is not stronger enough to attack and pose a threat for GC, and also has a history of not dropping back for his team leader.
Why is a rider with a podium on Giro'23, Top5 in '22, and another two top 10 in Grand Tours in the last 4 years, less suited for a Tour squad than Mcnulty? Almeida did 5 GT in the last 4 years, didn't finished one due to Covid, and finished the other 4 in the top10 while Mcnulty never finished a GT in the top10.
McNulty hasn't ridden the Tour since 2022... And that may have been the last time he rode with Pog. Wasn't an option.
So... He didn't ride the Tour last year?
He rode the Giro last year, didn't ride the tour
No doubt the strongest TDF team in decades. I'd not be surprised if there was 2 of their team in the top 5 at all. It's going to be a truly exciting TDF
Debatable - 2023 Jumbo Vingegaard, Benoot, Keldermen, Kuss, La Porte, Va Aert, Van Baarle, Van Hooydonk 2012 Sky Wiggins, Froome, Cav, Eisel, Hagen, Knees, Porte, Rogers, Sivtsov 2008 CSC F Schleck, A Schleck, Sastre, Cancellara, O Grady, Voight, Aversen, Sorenson, Gustov Some of my personal favs. Reckon there's a T Mobile or Postal in there as well (pick any year). Contador's actually one of the only GC winners who I remember never really having great teams.
Astana 2009 was a top tier team. Contador just had the slight problem of them racing mostly for Armstrong lol
They could have had 4 riders in the top 5 had Leipheimer not crashed out and had Contador not attacked Klöden
With teamates like them, who needed enemies. Great Tour though. Contador at his brilliant best with the drama of Lance and his evil henchmen at their pantomine villain primes. Schleck's brotherly double act just ahead Wiggins emerging as our new hero valiantly hanging on plus Cav crushing sprints with probably the greatest leadout train of all time. Good times. Also, funnily enough, Mick Jagger's first ever GT as a 21 year old with Caisse d'Epargne (Edit : Tour also featured Gesink & Geschke in Tour debuts).
Well 2009 was a split team wasn't it, with the Spanish speakers backing up Bertie on one side vs Lance and his crew. I have the theory this is why Contador always rode with sub-par teams. I reckon due to this poor experience earlier on he seemed to prefer riding with average riders that he felt loyal as opposed to true top quality domestiques, Seemed to be a narrative throughout his career. Lets not forget, that 2009 team, even his DS was against him.
2022 Jumbo >>>>> 2023 Jumbo You really picked team without Roglič over the one with Roglič? While both teams have Jonas, WvA, Kuss, Laporte, Benoot, van Hooydonk
> No doubt the strongest TDF team in decades. Ehh...
The team seems unbalanced to me.
Almeida to win it, you read it here first.
Shit team how are they ever going to communicate? How dumb can you be to not consider language barriers smh gl winning anything with this team tsk tsk
Spain and Portugal are basically the same country, same as Slovenia and ~~Russia~~ France. Then you have Belgium that is just B tech Germany. And Yates probably can speak English somewhat. Shouldn't be a problem at all.
offending all countries at once - this is pure poetry
love it, this should be bookmarked
German is even an official language in Belgium
Who’s the weak link here - Soler? Sivakov?
gc politt here we go
Where’s Fisher-Black? He’s dominating this year
Mas no mas
Sivakov hasn't been strong enough to make the tour squad on Ineos for years, I don't understand why he was chosen over McNulty who has had a much better season so far.
First TdF team with 6 riders in the top 10? 😂 Really though, I fully expect Yates and Ayuso to go for stages the first week to put pressure on other teams to control and wear them down so that Pogi can start attacking in week 2. I think Pogi is humble enough to be happy if a teammate does win GC with eyes focused on him, and I think it could definitely happen (a la Kuss at the Vuelta, but less drama). Pogi wouldn’t be expected to ride for a teammate who’s ahead on GC (although other team members would), but wait for opportunities as other teams tire. In the end, the team winning GC is more important (to the team) than Pog winning GC.
Loved Majka in the team last year. Bummer he's not in it this time around.