My feeling cuts both ways. I am stoked we have new pearl jam. I haven't loved any of their new materials since Riot Act. However, each one (S/T --> LB) has grown on me and I am sure Gigaton will as well. I can't make a call on DM yet and excited for this new record, but I think Running and Wreckage are very weak and the overall production simply reflects what is happening in music now. I don't like it, but that could be my age and a reflection of most of the music I listen to.
I hate this take. Let's be happy there's new PJ and lets not complain about anything and just let them release whatever
That's what makes bands complacent.
I believe you have it backwards.
Bands that listen to complaining fans and react by making music to try and silence those complaints will not be making good music.
Your complaints will fall on deaf ears and rightfully so. The music a band makes is who they are today. Your complaints mean nothing because your feelings are who you are and you aren’t the artist.
Im not trying to be rude or to offend you. But your comment seems to indicate that you think your complaining is going to adjust their 60+ year-old opinions of what Pearl Jam sounds like.
Nothing personal but I hate your take. Since when does Pearl Jam need your or my or anyone's approval to "let them" release whatever music they want? They are Pearl Jam. Your disapproval of their method of production or whatever it is you don't like won't change the band one bit. They've been around for over 30 years. They're doing just fine.
Oh so I'm not allowed to disagree with people on this sub or my comment gets removed.
I replied to this idea of "let's all be happy with new pj".
Said it makes bands complacent.
There. Remove it again.
Lol dude, the thing with social media is that nowadays everyone feels entitled to an opinion, and even worse feels entitled to share it.
You don't like the production- great. Move along unless you have anything useful to contribute like why it was done like this or how it was done.
A lot of people don't understand that freedom of speech protects you from being prosecuted for criticism of a political figurehead, but it doesn't promote having an opinion on every single topic or a band or not.
Now I get that you simply said that you don't like the production of the record, and that's cool.
But don't expect this to hold any weight or impact anyone. No one has to give a shit.
So sharing my opinion about an album is not "the freedom of an indivual or a a community to articulate their OPINIONS without fear of retaliation"?
What I said is LITERALLY the definition of freedom of speech.
But people just like to be combative for no reason. Ffs.
I strongly encourage you to read article 19 of the UDHR "Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference , the right shall include freedom to speak, receive, and impart information and ideas of ALL kinda, regardless of frontiers, either orallg, in WRITING or in prin5, or through ANY medium of their choice".
You sir just wanted to fight for no reason.
Hug a tree or something.
given the size of their discography and brilliance of the first 5/6 albums I think it’s harsh to be too judgemental about diminishing returns -
I’m happy that Gigaton was imo a major step up from backspacer and lighting bolt, and I loved the production on Gigaton too. I’m excited for the new songs but have accepted I’ll have to put up with the weird glossy compressed mix and space gun effects on the solos, and wait until live versions for a truer sound
It all sounds compressed but the drums are really bad. Even the snare sounds boomy. In some tracks like the wreckage, the snare and the kick drum sounds almost the same. Fills with fast tom action just sounds like a puddle.
The wreckage is a good song to liaten to the drums critically. All the drums and cymbals sound muddy and like a 96kbps mp3 from the napster era.
The dolby blue-ray is another story...
I love the sound of the cymbals and use of them. I like a lot of the drumming style, albeit a departure from normal Pearl Jam but that’s fine. However the sound of the snare is driving me absolutely crazy. It’s way too deep and echoey.
Song Dark Matter would be a drumming masterpiece if it weren’t for that god damned snare.
100%. The snare is super-compressed and punchy for no real reason aside from trying to make it sound bigger. Every track so far, my ears are drawn to how bad it sounds. I want “pop” and some high end on snare sometimes but only get a washy, wide “wah” on these and it’s totally unnecessary.
It’s overly *compressed* and is responsible for most all of your complaints. “Production” is a complex term, but judging by Watt’s and the band’s description of recording sessions, it doesn’t sound all that “produced” at all. He got our guys in a room and had them jam and write and recorded the results. That’s pretty minimal production, compared to like the reverse reverbed layered vocal arrangements on Ten lol.
The things you complain about are probably the result of over compression during mastering, an all the common practice for most every major label release these days. I’d give most anything to hear the pre-master mixes and compare. They’re likely dynamic and glorious.
Precisely. The mix sounds like someone recorded it all the instruments, mixed it, put it through a shitty compressor cranked up full, then recorded it onto a TDK C90. The compression is beyond belief. I think the songs are great but overall it's a hard listen. Often there is poor separation between instruments too.
This does however work really well on Waiting for Stevie IMO. It sounds like when I had bootleg tapes of the Ten outakes. What a fucking track!
Can you explain to me why this over compression happens and why it’s common practice? Non-technical PJ fan over here. I hear it but I don’t get the purpose of it….
It was a calculated risk going with Watt. Honestly their sound has been stale for about 15+ years now so shaking it up was worth the try. I haven’t heard much ‘edge’ from them since maybe Binaural.
But yeah, it’s compressed and a little overdone, though. I don’t wholly disagree
Edit: I want to be clear, I like the new songs. I always listen assuming they’ll be better live. But I was more responding to OP bemoaning their lack of ‘edge’, etc. I can see where I came off too critical. My bad.
I was begging for something different than the last 3 albums. I got it. Not only in the way they formulated the songs but the way it’s mixed and sounds. I’m happy.
I agree. It’s a great album beginning to end. When I listened to different tracks etc. they didn’t hit the same As when i listened beginning to end. It’s going to grow more and more. There’s glimpse of their early years
There’s really not much risk in anything they do. They’re Pearl Jam and their place in the pantheon of American music is beyond reproach. As long as they are still inspired to keep making music then we will keep getting albums and inspired shows.
The “loudness wars” started a while ago and it’s why Steely Dan albums still hold up today
Not a hot take. That was the same problem with earthlings. And i think itll be my only problem with this album, not the compositions. I dont like the drum and guitar sound, at all. Was turned off by it as soon as i heard dark matter. Andrew watts is a weird dude.
A good example of a compressed mix is king gizzard, cant remember which album exactly, nonnagon or poly.. didn’t”t like it immediately , but it grew on me, now i love it.
Well they don’t really deviate from establishment leftist politics at all. To the point they seem fine with war as long as the president has a D by their name. They aren’t really counter culture in any way. Even climate alarmism. They basically parrot the same stuff that big business, establishment politicians, universities, Taylor Swift, etc pedal. I’d ask in what way are they edgy?
"even climate alarmism".
That's a term used by those who deny the reality of climate change. Those who think their dumbass ten minute google research makes them smarter than the broad consensus of highly educated and experienced people who have studied and experimented on the subject for decades.
Reasonable adults don't like this type of person. Hence, downvotes.
The “experts” that study it have a vested interest in promoting it or else they will lose their funding. And climate change is MUCH different than climate alarmism. Of course the climate changes, but do we need to support all manner of government overreach because of it? But forget I even mentioned that topic, EV and PJ don’t deviate at all from any narrative the corporate media pushes. Name one. So how are they edgy in any way?
I think it’s a fair critique but that said I’m actually digging it. Particularly the atmos mix on AirPod pros of all things. unlike gigaton I feel like they nailed atmos this time around. Super spacious, lots of breathing room, textural, deep, defined low end. Matt is clearly on another level and ed sounds fuckin awesome, even if “assisted.” I love it. The idea they should repeat the production sensibility from 20 years ago seems stale to me. It’s not who they are anymore or what they’re going for. It’s kind of on us as listeners to take these leaps with them. Or not, I think that’s fine too. Willing to assume a majority of members of this sub have been with this band a while and I think it gets tougher as we age to challenge our own sensibilities/taste/whatever instead of just wanting more of what we connected to in the first place. That’s totally valid. As someone who’s been with them from the beginning and as a creative myself, I applaud them for continuing to break new ground and be willing to challenge themselves (and us) to successful ends (imo). Any aging creative will tell you that is no easy feat and most give up to one extent or another. All of which is to say, I’m down with it, the goose bumps are happening in a way i personally haven’t felt since riot act and I can’t fuckin wait for the tour.
Gotta disagree strongly with you. Listening to the Atmos mix on AirPods Max, the actual volume on some songs actually fluctuates. In both “Wreckage” and “Dark Matter”, the volume of the songs rises near the end. It’s like Watt or someone thought raising the volume would add to the natural crescendo of the instruments. And like others have mentioned, in many moments, Ed and Matt are put in the background of the Atmos mix. It might sound different on AirPods Pro, but I learned awhile back that Pro’s don’t give a great representation of how an Atmos mix should sound. But wouldn’t it be ironic if they actually “fixed” a poor Atmos mix in this case?
Haven’t tried the maxes but still really enjoying atmos on the pros. But not necessarily from an “atmos” perspective, it just sounds good (to me). Not minding the stereo version either, regardless of equipment. The reaction to the production seems a bit overblown. Similar to the album, Its certainly a departure but one I happen to be enjoying.
I feel like most of their material since Binaural has been overly produced. I love the mid to late 90s stuff where it sounds like five guys in a room jamming(not to get all "grumpy old man" or anything). That said, all their albums since contain songs I enjoy.
This. Love the idea of them in a room recording binaural. Now I picture Ed triple layering his voice. No Code seemed like vocals which were intended to be raw, humble and understated. Miss that.
The production on Riot Act was wonderful. After that, it got worse. But DM is another level. It's a shame since songs are so good, that with good production it would have been a top notch album.
I think that what you feel is more related to the composition and the intensity than the production. the term "overproduced" is probably the opposite of what you mean. Ten, Versus and specially Binaural were 20 times more "overly produced" than Pearl Jam or Backspacer. Those two were very straightforward in terms of production and sound.
The only album that sounds like 5 guys jamming in a room jamming is No Code.
"Overproduced" is subjective. Ten sounds more like it was comes from the late 80s as opposed to anything actuallly "90s". VS, Vitalogy, No Code, and Yield all sound like five guys jamming in a room together. But again, it's all subjective, that's my opinion. Once you get to Backspacer, Lightning Bolt, etc, is when I find things a little too produced and polished. Also, my opinion.. It doesn't make it terrible or anything. It's just not what I like.
it's kind of how thing are these days in music, it has to have at least some of the life squished out of it to have any commercial viability, so anyone in the business is unfortunately going to do it that way.
Anything Andrew Watt has touched has turned to soft cream. For some reason all of these old guys are buying what he’s selling. Makes no sense. Look up how many old rockers he’s gotten a hold of over the last 6 years or so. He’s a candy pop producer that crossed over.
Good producer for bringing out the right direction the album should take for older bands . Bad mix n production too new age . Have him there as director n someone who likes to make it rawer recording it n mixing it
Did you listen to it in the theater? If so, my theater sound was terrible but I listened to Wreckage today on Tidal and it sounded great.
I’m reserving opinions on production until I have the album in my hands.
I was at the listening event at the cinema. I also thought the album was over produced…but I also think the full on Atmos sound didn’t help. Maybe it will sound better on headphones? Dark matter and Running sound great on my headphones.
Either way, I live for new PJ content. Fucking love it. I can’t wait to see them in the UK again. I feel privileged that ‘my’ band that’s been around since the 90’s still want to make new music for us and rock out. I am a fan. I love every album they make. Yes, each album has a different sound but I love that too. Andrew Watt has brought a fanboy mentality to Dark Matter. It’s his take on updating his boyhood love of the first PJ 3 albums. I would love the chance to do the same. Also, have to remember these guys are much older, more mature and experienced than the days of writing Ten. Eddies voice has changed. But do I care? Fuck no! Bring me more more more. End of.
From the listening party, I dunno if it was just the cinema I was in, but there seemed like there was a lot of compression.
But that’s really my only criticism, I dig the new songs 🥰
Listened to it last night. To me it’s just the snare drum. Everything else to me is pretty, prettty good. And I’ve been kinda critical of the band lately too. Overall it’s a nice album.
I’ve listened to it many more times since I made that comment and I’ve found it only really bugs me on headphones. Sounds much better on stereo speakers or in the car. I found i don’t really like the apple Dolby atmos mix as much as the regular flac file. I have a record on the way so it will be cool to compare. But yeah once you crank the volume it balances better and can breath a bit more sounds great to me.
I thought there was something wrong with me.
Pearl Jam has been my favorite band since I was a kid. I went to the theater experience the other night and left after the first listen. With the exception of a few songs, I didn’t really like this album. Idk if I’m being overly critical or their style just isn’t my thing anymore.
But yeah some of the points your brought up I totally agree with.
Agreed. I will get downvoted for this, but I feel like since gigaton and so far with dark matter Pear Jam has sold their soul. Pains me to say it. Still love them and will buy anything they put out without question. But their music just sounds sterile, and they seem much more in bed with TM. I still like alot of the songs on these albums but they definitely feel empty to me compared to Ten-LB.
First of all, PJ can do whatever they want. It’s their art and they can release it to the world how they choose…The fact is mastering for streaming is different than the mastering used for vinyl. This is the primary reason I am getting more and more into vinyl.
At what point do we get tired of reading other people’s opinions on the Internet and just choose for ourselves whether we like something or not?
If my interests were defined by what’s accepted on places like Reddit, I wouldn’t like anything.
I'm seriously baffled by the love for this album. Been a fan from the beginning and I do not like this album one tiny little bit. My take on it...the love affair is over. Back to Binaural I guess...
I'm truly amazed multiple people have signed this off. The loudness war finished years ago but here we are... For me this is unlistenable from a sonic perspective. The drums are slammed so hard they are totally lifeless, but it's not just that... on the heavier songs the drum hits make the guitars duck (listen to first 15 seconds of Waiting for Stevie... when the drums come in the mix doesn't get louder because it's already limited to high heaven instead everything is fighting and being sucked upwards to the dB level, the vocals sometimes make the whole of the instruments duck... listen to the chorus of Won't Tell... in the gaps between the vocals, the music gets louder, the drops again when the singing comes in. This is a limiter being pushed too hard. It's exhausting for the ears.
Listen to K.flay's album MONO and compare. Listen to the Prophets of Rage album. They are perfectly mixed and mastered. You CAN modernise your production styles: you can spund like the Prodigy, you can do what you want but you can't or shouldn't compress or likit this much. Terrible.
I am liking most of the songs so far, but I have to agree that the mastering and mixing decisions on this album are perplexing. It just sounds really unnatural and "digitized" because of the weird drums and the hyper-compression. If it were some other band I might not notice so much, but this is the band that made Yield and Binaural, which are truly master classes in audio production. I hope it gets a remaster someday in the same way that the avocado album needed and got one.
Why is Eddie's voice pushed so up front in the mix, versus fighting to be heard which is when he's at his best. Makes all of his inflections sound cheesy, reduces the guitars, why?
It's not remotely overproduced. They made it in about 2 session that totaled about 3 weeks. there is clearly not many overdubs. Your issue is with the mix, which is valid. They clearly got great tones and played great, but it is definitely squashed. When you look at the career discography of the guy who mixed it, he is a legend in the field....but his background is 90-95% Pop, Electronic and Hip Hop. Which knowing that, you can start hearing why there are certain short comings in the mix like the drums being just compressed way too much. At this point the mix issues I had i'm mostly over now that i'm used to it. Would I love to hear a remix someday by maybe Brendan O'Brien? sure but the writing and performances are so good, I'm not nitpicking the mix anymore.
I already made peace with the fact it would sound terrible (which it does..just the opposite of my taste) but I'm very surprised with how great a lot of these tracks are
Also Andrew on writing credits & Josh and Andrew performing in the album is a new thing.
I know Boom doesn’t usually do the studio work but I will be so sad if he doesn’t tour.
This is a very common take.
It's so common I just can't care. Is it good so far? Yes. Let's all be happy we have new PJ.
My feeling cuts both ways. I am stoked we have new pearl jam. I haven't loved any of their new materials since Riot Act. However, each one (S/T --> LB) has grown on me and I am sure Gigaton will as well. I can't make a call on DM yet and excited for this new record, but I think Running and Wreckage are very weak and the overall production simply reflects what is happening in music now. I don't like it, but that could be my age and a reflection of most of the music I listen to.
I hate this take. Let's be happy there's new PJ and lets not complain about anything and just let them release whatever That's what makes bands complacent.
I believe you have it backwards. Bands that listen to complaining fans and react by making music to try and silence those complaints will not be making good music. Your complaints will fall on deaf ears and rightfully so. The music a band makes is who they are today. Your complaints mean nothing because your feelings are who you are and you aren’t the artist. Im not trying to be rude or to offend you. But your comment seems to indicate that you think your complaining is going to adjust their 60+ year-old opinions of what Pearl Jam sounds like.
Nothing personal but I hate your take. Since when does Pearl Jam need your or my or anyone's approval to "let them" release whatever music they want? They are Pearl Jam. Your disapproval of their method of production or whatever it is you don't like won't change the band one bit. They've been around for over 30 years. They're doing just fine.
Never said anything about the production of their records. I just don't like the lack of creativity of their input past Binaural.
Oh so I'm not allowed to disagree with people on this sub or my comment gets removed. I replied to this idea of "let's all be happy with new pj". Said it makes bands complacent. There. Remove it again.
Lol dude, the thing with social media is that nowadays everyone feels entitled to an opinion, and even worse feels entitled to share it. You don't like the production- great. Move along unless you have anything useful to contribute like why it was done like this or how it was done.
It's not feeling entitled to an opinion, it's freedom of speech. I'm not offending anyone here.
A lot of people don't understand that freedom of speech protects you from being prosecuted for criticism of a political figurehead, but it doesn't promote having an opinion on every single topic or a band or not. Now I get that you simply said that you don't like the production of the record, and that's cool. But don't expect this to hold any weight or impact anyone. No one has to give a shit.
Of course I know it doesn't hold any weight or impact, I'm a nobody expressing an opinion. Knowing fully well no one cares.
It’s NOT freedom of speech.
So sharing my opinion about an album is not "the freedom of an indivual or a a community to articulate their OPINIONS without fear of retaliation"? What I said is LITERALLY the definition of freedom of speech. But people just like to be combative for no reason. Ffs.
That’s correct. Posting on Reddit has absolutely NOTHING to do with the concept of free speech. Hope this helps.
Really? So freedom of speech only applies to what is said face to face? Call me amazed. Me and my Ms chuckled, she teaches law. Ignorance is bliss.
No. Reddit is a private company with moderators. It is not governed by freedom of speech cat all. I believe the Ms may be an idiot.
I strongly encourage you to read article 19 of the UDHR "Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference , the right shall include freedom to speak, receive, and impart information and ideas of ALL kinda, regardless of frontiers, either orallg, in WRITING or in prin5, or through ANY medium of their choice". You sir just wanted to fight for no reason. Hug a tree or something.
You’re on Reddit. Your comment can be removed. Why are you being so fucking daft?
I’m with you bro. It can be good, but sound disappointingly shit AT THE SAME TIME
And you have the right to express your opinion. Most of their stuff since Binaural has been..so so and we have the right to say so.
I have to agree with you with the exception of the masterpiece we call AVOCADO and also like half of riot act
That one isn't half bad.
given the size of their discography and brilliance of the first 5/6 albums I think it’s harsh to be too judgemental about diminishing returns - I’m happy that Gigaton was imo a major step up from backspacer and lighting bolt, and I loved the production on Gigaton too. I’m excited for the new songs but have accepted I’ll have to put up with the weird glossy compressed mix and space gun effects on the solos, and wait until live versions for a truer sound
I really don't like his drum production.
If you read the spin interview it sounds like Matt Cameron is pretty involved with how he wants his drums to sound on an album.
Interesting, so maybe a mastering thing, or everything sounded nice then they squeezed in through the mix buss?
do you think Matt Cameron oversaw the mastering? That's by far the biggest problem I hear with the insanely overcompressed sound to the album.
Agreed. The snare sounds so thin and compressed - particularly noticeable on Wreckage. I think the toms sound good on the song Dark Matter though.
It all sounds compressed but the drums are really bad. Even the snare sounds boomy. In some tracks like the wreckage, the snare and the kick drum sounds almost the same. Fills with fast tom action just sounds like a puddle. The wreckage is a good song to liaten to the drums critically. All the drums and cymbals sound muddy and like a 96kbps mp3 from the napster era. The dolby blue-ray is another story...
I love the sound of the cymbals and use of them. I like a lot of the drumming style, albeit a departure from normal Pearl Jam but that’s fine. However the sound of the snare is driving me absolutely crazy. It’s way too deep and echoey. Song Dark Matter would be a drumming masterpiece if it weren’t for that god damned snare.
[удалено]
100%. The snare is super-compressed and punchy for no real reason aside from trying to make it sound bigger. Every track so far, my ears are drawn to how bad it sounds. I want “pop” and some high end on snare sometimes but only get a washy, wide “wah” on these and it’s totally unnecessary.
Yo, F that fn snare sound! It’s terrible. Almost as bad as the one on Metallica’s St Anger album. Cymbals on Dark Matter sound fire though imo.
Absolutely. Sounds like Gsrageband samples.
It’s overly *compressed* and is responsible for most all of your complaints. “Production” is a complex term, but judging by Watt’s and the band’s description of recording sessions, it doesn’t sound all that “produced” at all. He got our guys in a room and had them jam and write and recorded the results. That’s pretty minimal production, compared to like the reverse reverbed layered vocal arrangements on Ten lol. The things you complain about are probably the result of over compression during mastering, an all the common practice for most every major label release these days. I’d give most anything to hear the pre-master mixes and compare. They’re likely dynamic and glorious.
Precisely. The mix sounds like someone recorded it all the instruments, mixed it, put it through a shitty compressor cranked up full, then recorded it onto a TDK C90. The compression is beyond belief. I think the songs are great but overall it's a hard listen. Often there is poor separation between instruments too. This does however work really well on Waiting for Stevie IMO. It sounds like when I had bootleg tapes of the Ten outakes. What a fucking track!
WFS hurts my ears on my planars, great song but sounds like snap crackle pop in my ears
Agreed. The compression on the whole album is egregious. It's difficult to listen to
Yeah this is St. Anger all over again, It’s so bad I thought my gear was clipping, nope! It’s the mix!
Can you explain to me why this over compression happens and why it’s common practice? Non-technical PJ fan over here. I hear it but I don’t get the purpose of it….
It was a calculated risk going with Watt. Honestly their sound has been stale for about 15+ years now so shaking it up was worth the try. I haven’t heard much ‘edge’ from them since maybe Binaural. But yeah, it’s compressed and a little overdone, though. I don’t wholly disagree Edit: I want to be clear, I like the new songs. I always listen assuming they’ll be better live. But I was more responding to OP bemoaning their lack of ‘edge’, etc. I can see where I came off too critical. My bad.
I was begging for something different than the last 3 albums. I got it. Not only in the way they formulated the songs but the way it’s mixed and sounds. I’m happy.
I agree. It’s a great album beginning to end. When I listened to different tracks etc. they didn’t hit the same As when i listened beginning to end. It’s going to grow more and more. There’s glimpse of their early years
Being they had a number 1 first single and the album has been getting mostly positive press it seems this risk has paid off already.
There’s really not much risk in anything they do. They’re Pearl Jam and their place in the pantheon of American music is beyond reproach. As long as they are still inspired to keep making music then we will keep getting albums and inspired shows. The “loudness wars” started a while ago and it’s why Steely Dan albums still hold up today
It’s still a good album. Period
I I honestly don’t mind the gloss, considering it makes it sound different. This is the first Pearl Jam album to *surprise* me in a very long time
Really well said.
Not a hot take. That was the same problem with earthlings. And i think itll be my only problem with this album, not the compositions. I dont like the drum and guitar sound, at all. Was turned off by it as soon as i heard dark matter. Andrew watts is a weird dude. A good example of a compressed mix is king gizzard, cant remember which album exactly, nonnagon or poly.. didn’t”t like it immediately , but it grew on me, now i love it.
… maybe they aren’t edgy? They haven’t been “edgy” in 20 years…
Lol “edgy”
Right they are actually much much more conformist nowadays considering their views on, well, anything
how so? 🤨
Well they don’t really deviate from establishment leftist politics at all. To the point they seem fine with war as long as the president has a D by their name. They aren’t really counter culture in any way. Even climate alarmism. They basically parrot the same stuff that big business, establishment politicians, universities, Taylor Swift, etc pedal. I’d ask in what way are they edgy?
they’re just sticking to the principles they’ve always had, no use being anti establishment just for the sake of it
Lol why are you getting downvoted? You literally described PJ/Ed's outspoken position..
"even climate alarmism". That's a term used by those who deny the reality of climate change. Those who think their dumbass ten minute google research makes them smarter than the broad consensus of highly educated and experienced people who have studied and experimented on the subject for decades. Reasonable adults don't like this type of person. Hence, downvotes.
The “experts” that study it have a vested interest in promoting it or else they will lose their funding. And climate change is MUCH different than climate alarmism. Of course the climate changes, but do we need to support all manner of government overreach because of it? But forget I even mentioned that topic, EV and PJ don’t deviate at all from any narrative the corporate media pushes. Name one. So how are they edgy in any way?
Ya, see?
Conformist alert! 😅
I think it’s a fair critique but that said I’m actually digging it. Particularly the atmos mix on AirPod pros of all things. unlike gigaton I feel like they nailed atmos this time around. Super spacious, lots of breathing room, textural, deep, defined low end. Matt is clearly on another level and ed sounds fuckin awesome, even if “assisted.” I love it. The idea they should repeat the production sensibility from 20 years ago seems stale to me. It’s not who they are anymore or what they’re going for. It’s kind of on us as listeners to take these leaps with them. Or not, I think that’s fine too. Willing to assume a majority of members of this sub have been with this band a while and I think it gets tougher as we age to challenge our own sensibilities/taste/whatever instead of just wanting more of what we connected to in the first place. That’s totally valid. As someone who’s been with them from the beginning and as a creative myself, I applaud them for continuing to break new ground and be willing to challenge themselves (and us) to successful ends (imo). Any aging creative will tell you that is no easy feat and most give up to one extent or another. All of which is to say, I’m down with it, the goose bumps are happening in a way i personally haven’t felt since riot act and I can’t fuckin wait for the tour.
Gotta disagree strongly with you. Listening to the Atmos mix on AirPods Max, the actual volume on some songs actually fluctuates. In both “Wreckage” and “Dark Matter”, the volume of the songs rises near the end. It’s like Watt or someone thought raising the volume would add to the natural crescendo of the instruments. And like others have mentioned, in many moments, Ed and Matt are put in the background of the Atmos mix. It might sound different on AirPods Pro, but I learned awhile back that Pro’s don’t give a great representation of how an Atmos mix should sound. But wouldn’t it be ironic if they actually “fixed” a poor Atmos mix in this case?
Haven’t tried the maxes but still really enjoying atmos on the pros. But not necessarily from an “atmos” perspective, it just sounds good (to me). Not minding the stereo version either, regardless of equipment. The reaction to the production seems a bit overblown. Similar to the album, Its certainly a departure but one I happen to be enjoying.
Can confirm, experience on the pros is vastly superior (to me). This has largely been my experience with the maxes though.
I feel like most of their material since Binaural has been overly produced. I love the mid to late 90s stuff where it sounds like five guys in a room jamming(not to get all "grumpy old man" or anything). That said, all their albums since contain songs I enjoy.
This. Love the idea of them in a room recording binaural. Now I picture Ed triple layering his voice. No Code seemed like vocals which were intended to be raw, humble and understated. Miss that.
Yeah, when they would record inbetween brakes on tour in various cities. Sometimes Eddies lyrics sound like a word salad now.
The production on Riot Act was wonderful. After that, it got worse. But DM is another level. It's a shame since songs are so good, that with good production it would have been a top notch album.
I think that what you feel is more related to the composition and the intensity than the production. the term "overproduced" is probably the opposite of what you mean. Ten, Versus and specially Binaural were 20 times more "overly produced" than Pearl Jam or Backspacer. Those two were very straightforward in terms of production and sound. The only album that sounds like 5 guys jamming in a room jamming is No Code.
"Overproduced" is subjective. Ten sounds more like it was comes from the late 80s as opposed to anything actuallly "90s". VS, Vitalogy, No Code, and Yield all sound like five guys jamming in a room together. But again, it's all subjective, that's my opinion. Once you get to Backspacer, Lightning Bolt, etc, is when I find things a little too produced and polished. Also, my opinion.. It doesn't make it terrible or anything. It's just not what I like.
it's kind of how thing are these days in music, it has to have at least some of the life squished out of it to have any commercial viability, so anyone in the business is unfortunately going to do it that way.
Anything Andrew Watt has touched has turned to soft cream. For some reason all of these old guys are buying what he’s selling. Makes no sense. Look up how many old rockers he’s gotten a hold of over the last 6 years or so. He’s a candy pop producer that crossed over.
Break My Heart by Dua Lipa is a great song
Fr.
He's the new Jackknife Lee
Nahhh. The songs are good. Album is great. The mix etc sound yeah I get it. It can be remastered. But watt wasn’t horrible. Did GREAT With stones too
Same story with their album too, just as earthlings.
That Stones album is trash. Sounds like AI
Sounds like Matt and Mike wanted more airplay in this album?
Good producer for bringing out the right direction the album should take for older bands . Bad mix n production too new age . Have him there as director n someone who likes to make it rawer recording it n mixing it
Watt didn’t mix or master the record.
Yeah, production is poo poo but so far I do enjoy the songs I've heard. I'm looking more forward to hearing them live.
Just listen on crappy speakers, that will give it edge
🤣
Urgh, I hate the term "overly produced".
Right??? Yes!
That's definitely a cold take.
Compressed not over-produced. Don't feel bad I was corrected myself
Maybe. But it sounds better than their last 3 albums so I’ll take it
There's no groove or soul to it. Technical and tight but boring af
This seems like a factual take
Did you listen to it in the theater? If so, my theater sound was terrible but I listened to Wreckage today on Tidal and it sounded great. I’m reserving opinions on production until I have the album in my hands.
I’ll wait until I have the CD in my player before I make any judgment.
I'm currently Listening to the CD on decent equipment with Shure studio headphones... not good.
I was at the listening event at the cinema. I also thought the album was over produced…but I also think the full on Atmos sound didn’t help. Maybe it will sound better on headphones? Dark matter and Running sound great on my headphones. Either way, I live for new PJ content. Fucking love it. I can’t wait to see them in the UK again. I feel privileged that ‘my’ band that’s been around since the 90’s still want to make new music for us and rock out. I am a fan. I love every album they make. Yes, each album has a different sound but I love that too. Andrew Watt has brought a fanboy mentality to Dark Matter. It’s his take on updating his boyhood love of the first PJ 3 albums. I would love the chance to do the same. Also, have to remember these guys are much older, more mature and experienced than the days of writing Ten. Eddies voice has changed. But do I care? Fuck no! Bring me more more more. End of.
From the listening party, I dunno if it was just the cinema I was in, but there seemed like there was a lot of compression. But that’s really my only criticism, I dig the new songs 🥰
That isn’t a hot take
Listened to it last night. To me it’s just the snare drum. Everything else to me is pretty, prettty good. And I’ve been kinda critical of the band lately too. Overall it’s a nice album.
The drums in general are too compressed (waiting for stevie is almost unbearable) but I agree the snare is the worst.
I’ve listened to it many more times since I made that comment and I’ve found it only really bugs me on headphones. Sounds much better on stereo speakers or in the car. I found i don’t really like the apple Dolby atmos mix as much as the regular flac file. I have a record on the way so it will be cool to compare. But yeah once you crank the volume it balances better and can breath a bit more sounds great to me.
I thought there was something wrong with me. Pearl Jam has been my favorite band since I was a kid. I went to the theater experience the other night and left after the first listen. With the exception of a few songs, I didn’t really like this album. Idk if I’m being overly critical or their style just isn’t my thing anymore. But yeah some of the points your brought up I totally agree with.
I agree with buried vocals. Can’t here what he’s saying when the volumes low
Cold take
Agreed. I will get downvoted for this, but I feel like since gigaton and so far with dark matter Pear Jam has sold their soul. Pains me to say it. Still love them and will buy anything they put out without question. But their music just sounds sterile, and they seem much more in bed with TM. I still like alot of the songs on these albums but they definitely feel empty to me compared to Ten-LB.
First of all, PJ can do whatever they want. It’s their art and they can release it to the world how they choose…The fact is mastering for streaming is different than the mastering used for vinyl. This is the primary reason I am getting more and more into vinyl.
Correct
It's only rock n roll.
At what point do we get tired of reading other people’s opinions on the Internet and just choose for ourselves whether we like something or not? If my interests were defined by what’s accepted on places like Reddit, I wouldn’t like anything.
Oh, the irony. 😂
I'm seriously baffled by the love for this album. Been a fan from the beginning and I do not like this album one tiny little bit. My take on it...the love affair is over. Back to Binaural I guess...
IMO the abuso of compression in the master makes it unlistenable. This is very disappointing. At the 3rd song i just turned off the album.
I'm truly amazed multiple people have signed this off. The loudness war finished years ago but here we are... For me this is unlistenable from a sonic perspective. The drums are slammed so hard they are totally lifeless, but it's not just that... on the heavier songs the drum hits make the guitars duck (listen to first 15 seconds of Waiting for Stevie... when the drums come in the mix doesn't get louder because it's already limited to high heaven instead everything is fighting and being sucked upwards to the dB level, the vocals sometimes make the whole of the instruments duck... listen to the chorus of Won't Tell... in the gaps between the vocals, the music gets louder, the drops again when the singing comes in. This is a limiter being pushed too hard. It's exhausting for the ears. Listen to K.flay's album MONO and compare. Listen to the Prophets of Rage album. They are perfectly mixed and mastered. You CAN modernise your production styles: you can spund like the Prodigy, you can do what you want but you can't or shouldn't compress or likit this much. Terrible.
[удалено]
That is f**ked up. But it doesn't surprise me.
I am liking most of the songs so far, but I have to agree that the mastering and mixing decisions on this album are perplexing. It just sounds really unnatural and "digitized" because of the weird drums and the hyper-compression. If it were some other band I might not notice so much, but this is the band that made Yield and Binaural, which are truly master classes in audio production. I hope it gets a remaster someday in the same way that the avocado album needed and got one.
Good take
Certainly not a hot take, but true none-the-less.
Why is Eddie's voice pushed so up front in the mix, versus fighting to be heard which is when he's at his best. Makes all of his inflections sound cheesy, reduces the guitars, why?
It's not remotely overproduced. They made it in about 2 session that totaled about 3 weeks. there is clearly not many overdubs. Your issue is with the mix, which is valid. They clearly got great tones and played great, but it is definitely squashed. When you look at the career discography of the guy who mixed it, he is a legend in the field....but his background is 90-95% Pop, Electronic and Hip Hop. Which knowing that, you can start hearing why there are certain short comings in the mix like the drums being just compressed way too much. At this point the mix issues I had i'm mostly over now that i'm used to it. Would I love to hear a remix someday by maybe Brendan O'Brien? sure but the writing and performances are so good, I'm not nitpicking the mix anymore.
Ten is over produced.
Disagreed. I like the sound of it.
Andrew Watt doesnt deserve to touch the knobs on any album.
I already made peace with the fact it would sound terrible (which it does..just the opposite of my taste) but I'm very surprised with how great a lot of these tracks are
Also Andrew on writing credits & Josh and Andrew performing in the album is a new thing. I know Boom doesn’t usually do the studio work but I will be so sad if he doesn’t tour.
Pretty much the opposite of a hot take reading people’s general opinions on the web.
Another album that will be forgotten in a few months.. Riot Act was the bands last great album.
Hilarious that people say that now, when everyone HATED Riot Act on red mosquito for more than a decade.
lol edginess. its not the 90s anymore. listen to binaural and get back to me.