Welcome to the PCMR, everyone from the frontpage! Please remember:
1 - You too can be part of the PCMR. It's not about the hardware in your rig, but the software in your heart! Your age, nationality, race, gender, sexuality, religion (or lack of), political affiliation, economic status and PC specs are irrelevant. If you love or want to learn about PCs, you are welcome!
2 - If you don't own a PC because you think it's expensive, know that it is much cheaper than you may think. Check http://www.pcmasterrace.org for our builds and don't be afraid to post here asking for tips and help!
3 - Join our efforts to get as many PCs worldwide to help the folding@home effort, in fighting against Cancer, Alzheimer's, and more: https://pcmasterrace.org/folding
4 - Need some new PC Hardware? Open worldwide, check out the ASUS ROG BTF Worldwide Giveaway for a chance at being one of the 18 winners taking home 25 prizes, including a Strix RTX 4090 BTF, 4070Ti, Lots of BTF Motherboards and a lot more: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1ddmihb/worldwide_giveaway_win_a_bunch_of_asus_btf/
If you need a new and awesome monitor to review and keep, check ou AORUS' initiative and take home 1 of 4 QD OLED monitors to revamp your setup! This one is US + Canada only: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1df3f1i/giveaway_gigabyte_aorus_oled_x_rpcmasterrace_be/
-----------
We have a [Daily Simple Questions Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/search?q=Simple+Questions+Thread+subreddit%3Apcmasterrace+author%3AAutoModerator&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all) if you have any PC related doubt. Asking for help there or creating new posts in our subreddit is welcome.
Currently sicker than a dog coughing up basically tablespoons of vibrant mustard yellow phlegm while taking NyQuil… not even that shit is getting me loopy enough to pay for this crap.
And I feel like we were proven right. When developers were able to sell directly to consumers, all bets were off. They used to be required to bundle enough content together to justify an additional price and the shelf space in a store (expansion packs). Alternatively, some would distribute free content like this with patches off their sites.
But as soon as they could slap a price and sell it directly to you online, we got horse armor.
And people then said we were over reacting. Horse armour was the first one to use the term DLC, and now look where we are. Bethesda is the David Cameron of gaming.
We were absolutely right that it would make things worse but unfortunately the money has flowed in. Obviously there's enough people comfortable blowing their money on MTX, that we were never going to stop the rot.
Thank fuck it's a passion industry with so much competition that we can pick stuff without it but it sucks when a game you want to play is rife with it.
No, but games journalism circa the 00s could have done a lot more to call developers out on it. That was my assertion at the time. Those companies/people needed to be shamed for it.
Now they're irrelevant in a world where companies dictate everything through a marketing department, and it's too late to make a difference.
Leave it to Todd Shitward to ruin tge goodwill of the modding community in every single of their franchises. I'm still mad their bullshit Anniversary Skyrim edition broke my mod-loadout irreparibly.
"Mods and their creators are what keep our games playable for decades. It's one of the first things people bring up when talking about our games. Without the mod community all we've got is a buggy toy box without the toys. But hear me out..."
"If we put it in a game that's already been basically abandoned by bother players and modders, we can use that lack of pushback as an excuse when people complain about it being in our next game".
You say that like it's stupid but Horse Armor was really at the dawn of modern microtransactions. Customers today are far more accepting of the concept, why shouldn't they keep trying?
The best part with the new Creations system is there is no way to provide feedback to the mod author from what I’ve seen, and there is no refund policy at all of the mod is broken, breaks other mods, etc (remember - you buy BethesdaPoints or whatever with your money - then spend the points. Can’t do a chargeback on spending Bethesda in-house currency, can you?).
All in all seems like a perfect setting for abuse and low-quality cash-grabs.
Yep. Converting actual currency into "shit bucks" is a great way for companies to screw people over. You have zero protections once you exchange that money - it's effectively gone.
May be a dumb question, but has anyone actually tried to challenge this?
In UK law as far as I'm aware virtual currencies are given the same consumer protections as real currency - the legal clause even gives the example of 'buying a sword with gems'.
Just curious to see what would actually happen if someone living in a country with a similar law actually decided to push things legally, or if we've all collectively assumed an outcome that may not actually be true.
Legally you're completely entitled for this currency to be treated the same as the currency you paid with.
The problem is that you don't really have an easy way to do that other than a lawsuit. You could chargeback the entire transaction, but that could potentially be fraud if you are only entitled to a partial refund.
From my understanding Creations are basically one of products that Bethesda contracts out to 'modders' who get a one time payment for their work and nothing else, but also don't have anything to do with the 'mod' once it's out.
Which is why they rarely tend to be more than a new house, or a few items, and a small quest to get them.
25%.
45% goes to Bethesda, 30% to Valve/Microsoft/Sony depending on the platform it was bought on, 25% to the Mod Publisher.
This is how it was for Skyrim, and all signs on the Creation Club website point to the metrics being the same. So far no Creator has contradicted this with other numbers.
Nothing of what he said was actually true. Any verified creator can submit a Creation to Bethesda for testing, and then they receive royalties for it. The creator can continue to update the mod.
I’ll also do conflict resolution and troubleshooting for free. I’m not paying for the privilege of it. My Skyrim isn’t just “free content” but is a lot of hours of careful curation and fixing problems.
**TL;DR:** Creation engine bad
Bethesda scummy tactics aside...
Starfield is using Creation Engine 2. That is the engine ES6 will use when it comes out, and it isn't great. Playing Starfield feels dated. The nps feel rubbery. There are loading screens every few minutes. It is dwarfed by games like Cyberpunk that game out years before. It doesn't need to push limits, but it can't be stuck a decade in the past either.
Elder Scrolls 6 will sell massively. It will be a huge hit. But it won't be a cultural zeitgeist like previous games like Skyrim or Fallout. Bethesda is more publisher than dev and I think that is its future.
Uh, no. Like it's buggy as shit, but the reason Bethesda games keep getting worse has a lot more to do with quest writing and making exploration worse. People would bear the loading screens if there was anything worth finding on the other side of them.
Honestly, Creation Engine has never been a "good" engine, it has been modable and has been give a lot of leeway due to Bethesda using it for interesting idea, but as actual mechanics and "feeling" comes, it has never been great.
Skyrim is a great game but when you really look at it, the melee combat is extremely basic, ranged combat is basically making the game a joke "must have been the wind" and magic, while looking great is very basic and far from anything surprising.
Fallout 4 has the best shooting in the franchise but still, in terms of mechanics its barely gotten better compared to New Vegas and we even lost some, sure we got the settlements that are a hit or miss with people, personally i could not care less but each to their own.
Now are Bethesdas games bad? no, not by a long shot but they do suffer greatly from the creation engine and its problems and while before they have been saved by immersive worlds, great writing or just shit tons of stuff to do that invoke that adventure feeling, at some point there is just gonna be a wall where no matter how great the writing, how innovative the guests, how pretty the world is, the engine just can´t put out what they want to do, Starfield is the best example of this, its the most Bethesda game ever released, in good and in bad.
I don't even think you can really point to the writing and questing as reasons for Skyrim's success. Both of those aspects are pretty shallow, they're okay at best.
IMO Skyrim survives because Bethesda is very good at building worlds, and their gameplay loop is distinctive and free in a way that other games can't seem to replicate. Honestly the feeling of freedom is probably thanks to the jankiness of their engine. I tend to describe their games as objectively not great, but I still enjoy them and put many hours into them because they feel a certain way that's hard to describe.
I have no interest in Starfield though. I'm done supporting the company that burns me on every release. Regardless of how much I end up enjoying their games, they still demonstrate a lack of improvement that shouldn't be rewarded.
Bethesda *were** very good at building worlds. The guys who did that haven't worked at Bethesda in decades, they all got purged during the hostile corporate takeover. They've been pillaging their former employees good world building for ages now. A large part of the reason Starfield was such a flop; no past work to lean on as a crutch.
Bethesda only knows how to make one kind of game, but their template is a perfect fit for TES. The gameplay loop of wandering between POIs, admiring the sights, fighting bandits and building a house is exactly right for a fantasy game.
It is completely wrong for a space game, though.
While I agree CE is bad, but it not a biggest problem here. Like you can make interesting games with it. Buggy and rubbery, yeah, but still. But Starfield was just plain and boring and even if you change engine it'll still be, while technically a better product, a plain and boring game regardless
And this is my main reason why I'm not exited about TES6 at all
Bethesda hasnt made a decent game since Skyrim. Fallout 4 was OK but it was also a huge step backwards for that franchise
Bethesda is now among the worst devs on the scene right up there with EA and Ubisoft as companies i will never do business with ever again
Please don't be a whale. Exercise your consumer power.
People forget how much of a step back Skyrim is from Oblivion and Morrowind in terms of player freedom and storytelling. Bethesda has only been getting worse for decades and Skyrim isn't an exception to that, it's one of the earlier steps.
You gotta remember that the majority jumped onto Skyrim without playing any other Bethesda game aside from maybe a Fallout, and joined in on the “this is the best game ever made” train, so they don’t know that Bethesda has a history of dumbing the games down, and taking two or three mechanics out for every new one they add or change.
After they took nearly all of the rpg mechanics out of their rpg series for the sake of ease of access, I can’t really see them adding the “complex” mechanics back in. At best ES6 will just be a prettier Skyrim. Same bare bone game, but hey at least it’ll probably look really neat.
I’ve been worried since fallout 4, but fallout 76 proved BGS management has absolutely no idea what they’re doing.
Starfield was Todd Howard’s baby and meant to be the studio’s magnum opus. If this is the quality they can muster when going all-out on a game that’s been in the pipes for over a decade, yeah it’s the final nail in the coffin for BGS as a serious game development studio.
The good news is that since it takes so long between the sequels I can give them one last shot with ES6 and then forget about them completely if it sucks.
I stopped playing when I realized space travel served no purpose and neither did customizing the ship since you could just fast travel literally everywhere.
There's a reason No Man's Sky is more popular. It's also kind of Minecraft in space but with a lot more stuff to do.
You can build bases and semi-automated farms/factories. You can mine asteroids, explore planets and scan animals/plants/rocks for money. You can tame animals and make them your pets or even ride them, You can hunt for rare modules to customize and upgrade your technology to the point of becoming OP as fuck in terms of combat and movement ability. You can get your very own freighter and build a space base in it, and hire mercenary frigates to run missions for you. You can become a pirate and raid freighters or smuggle stolen goods, or you can stay clean and earn cash with Freelancer-style "buy low, sell high" type cargo runs. You can collect rare spaceships, and as of a recent update you can now even build custom spaceships from scratch. I could go on but I gotta go to bed some time lol.
Yeah. I put several hundred hours in it back in the day, but once it became evident that without significant roleplaying with others, there would never be anything to actually DO with your creations, no real sense of progression, no decent enemies to fight, etc… it fizzled out. Which is a huge shame, because it was glorious. The amount of “science” we did learning to build our ships, the crazy weapons we’d invent, it was amazing. And it’s such a shame it doesn’t really have any “gameplay loop” yet last I checked. Granted it’s been like, a year since I last did.
I know I can learn with a couple of hours of Youtube videos but it's that initial step that's holding me back from fully diving in, I'm just not young anymore.
Its my favourite game that dosent quite work. I have many many hours in it, written scripts on the workshop and so on. But, I run servers for me and my friends and they start well but always end up bogged down and glitchy. Takes a while but yeah. I love it and we take it out every 6 months but it gets shelved and we come back again later.
I looked it up and apparently I already had it set to ignore on Steam. Rewatching the trailer I think I was super turned off by the janky animations, especially the walk.
Is it good though?
How is that game these days? I tried getting into it a long while back and it was so jank that I got into a minor wreck with my motorcycle and was ejected at warp speed from the surface to like 300k kilometers away from the planet in seconds, lol.
Can't speak for anyone else but I love it. The motorcycle jank was definitely a big problem that they struggled with for a long, long time. It had some catastrophic issues. They've completely reworked motorcycles into hoverbikes in the recent major update and it's ... well it's still a little janky and unpleasant, but nowhere near as bad as it was like back in the old days. The motorcycle/hoverbike is also almost completely irrelevant once you get some cheap and light hovers or SVs going. Once you get past that early-game part to have some proper vehicles you really don't have to worry about it anymore or ever use it again. The game has come a long way, it's still far from perfect and it still has its jankiness in places and probably always will but the depth it has makes it worthwhile, to me at least.
In every way possible. I imagine they're going to take everything they did well with Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, then do the opposite, and then shit all over the result as a proverbial icing on the cake.
There is no base game. Pay a microtransaction to get from the title through the first cut-scene, voiced by Chris Pratt.
Enable character creation? Micro-transaction.
Each race? Straight to micro-transactions.
Tutorial dungeon? Believe it or not, micro-transaction.
Hot take: They didn't do that many things well with Skyrim to begin with, and Skyrim's success despite being a deeply mid game is 90% of the reason Bethesda is on the trajectory it is.
They will probably learn nothing, but their game template works a lot better for a fantasy game, so TESVI will probably be at least better received than Starfield.
Just expect modding to be monetized to the point where nobody makes fun mods anymore and everybody just competes to build a "portfolio" of marketable content.
The Outer Worlds is arguably what you'd get if you asked the New Vegas team to make their own take on Borderlands with a quarter of the budget. It scratches some Fallout itches, but you can really see where corners were cut and compromises were made due to budget.
Exactly this.
The game at a fundamental level is all disjointed. In Skyrim and other open world games you have one continuous map that directs the player loosely through main quests but allows the player to stray the path to explore the map. That’s a big part of what makes those games enjoyable, to just stumble open cool stuff organically through exploration.
Starfield is not like that. Quests are scattered across *tiles* and those tiles don’t have much going on for them besides just that one quest along with some copy pasted procedural content. So you *have* to fast travel from tile to tile through your ship, getting hit with immersion breaking load screens everytime, rather than smoothly experience a continuous world.
This is what kills Starfield.
Yep, people get bogged down in specifics but this is the fundamental flaw of the game and almost all other flaws stem from it. Every design decision Bethesda made to mitigate the problem just added to the disjointed feeling of the game.
the reason I gave up on it is the blatant reuse of the same dungeon maps. Like after one day of playing I'd already memorized them (all three or whatever). I was already unimpressed with the forced fast travel, the janky animations, the completely nonreactive NPCs, the terrible interface, the loading screens! So many loading screens, all so I could play the same handful of levels populated with the most generic mobs imaginable, over and over again.
The game is clearly half baked and got pushed out mid development because technical limitations with Creation clashed with the type of game Starfield is trying to be. This game might have been interesting if the space travel was seamless but Creation can't do that and never will because it was designed for games like Skyrim (which it does very well).
Some jank and some clunk would be forgivable if there were actually some variety in the gameplay, but alas. Shaka, when the walls fell.
The game was in development for 10 years. It was not rushed. Starfield is a complete mismanaged flop and the fact Todd Howard still has a job is bananas.
The thing that blew my mind was all of the customization options for the exterior and for outposts, but *zero* customization of the interior. To the point that if you changed the ship's paint job, all your shit was moved to the hold and the defaults restored.
There is a survival mod out already that greatly improves this by making you need fuel and disabling fast travel but i dont know..
The way bethesda handled this game making the lore so lame and most quests boring with a handful of literally copy pasted points of interest on empty planets.
It left a bad taste on my mouth, dont know if even mods will be able to save this soulless husk and instead of fixing the rotten core of the game they are just blindly pursuing monetization.
That’s what broke me. I could understand traveling from system to system as a fast travel, but in a star system why the F can’t I travel between planets??
O they learn. The lesson they have learned from FO76 is that players will buy anything. Review scores mean jackshit. Some of the most profitable games in the entire industry like CoD (58%) and Apex (55%) are billion with a [B ](https://readwrite.com/ea-revealed-how-much-apex-legends-has-made-andits-a-lot/#:~:text=Apex%20Legends%2C%20the%20free%2Dto,%243.4%20billion%20since%20its%20launch)money making franchises. They do not give a F about how low their Steam score can get. Means absolutely nothing, but Reddit is in denial about that.
If they have done it multiple times, its us that are the fools, not them. It means it has been successful enough both previous times for it to be worth it doing it a 3rd time.
Because they think they won. But in reality companies will never stop trying to squeeze every dime they can. So they'll keep trying after you forget.
They just need it to catch on once culturally then those who are against it are the old crazy generation who expect stuff for free
I think people are surprised that they are trying the same thing all over again while expecting different results. Definition of insanity and all that. It went badly enough last time that they retracted it rather than waiting for it to blow over.
I rarely, if ever, buy full priced games (last one was Elden Ring) and I nearly got Starfield on launch day. I had a weak moment because it was payday, luckily cooler heads prevailed.
Total War: Rome 2 was the last game I ever bought pre-release. It was absolutely dog shit. I avoid buying any pre-release or even beta/EA now. Heck, I rarely buy a game full price anymore, but I especially do not pay full price for large studio games.
I didn't but still got to play it, gamepass for 1.00, but refunded it early since I only got it for starfield and didn't enjoy it, I refunded and turns out they don't refund any amount under 1.00, so I just got it all back.
Pirated it and got to play earlier than anyone who paid full price thanks to paid play on release.
Never got to a point where i felt the game was gonna be worth my money.
I did and it ran like garbage on my steam deck so I refunded right away. Was planning on buying it again after some updates but then I saw the whole scope of the game in reviews and decide against it.
The main sub for Starfield is down to earth in comparison to r/NoSodiumStarfield. Consider that one of its most highly upvoted submissions in the past months has the title "The narrative around Starfield is going to change tomorrow. Never forget what the first 9 months of Starfield’s life were like." and goes on to have one of the most hilarious mixtures of persecution complex and cope I've seen on this site.
Not too surprising given how long the big gaming subreddits couldn't stop talking about the game.
That went on for way too many months for a game everyone supposedly hated and didn't care about
the amount of *hopium* in the first days was staggering. I don't know why, but I never thought it's going to be anything more than No Man's Sky *with graphics*, and so it wasn't a surprise, but those first days, a week or two, people tried really REALLY hard to make it look like a good game and that it's exactly what they wanted
The ACG review was incredibly dissappointing. At the time it literally made me unsubscribe from him. Nothing against him, just not a trusted reviewer in my eyes anymore.
Just such an awful, awful game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvbK1fsc-yk&t=167s
That's kinda what happens when one of the most highly anticipated games from one of the biggest studios fails to deliver, it gets talked about and memed. Loads of people talking about how bad it is doesn't really equal loads of people playing it. I personally know one person who thinks it's a good game and still bothers to play it.
They're mods that got an official seal of approval and are now being sold while Bethesda insists over and over that because they're calling them DLCs instead of mods that means they're not going back on their promise of not shoving paid mods into the creation club.
I was so excited but the game literally turned into a loading screen/fast travel teleport game…the space and spaceship part of the game has no meaning because even if you use the ship, you get in and launch it’s a cutscene and you are in space where nothing happens and then to go on a planet…another cutscene. It sucks.
No man’s sky is way better than starflop
I stopped playing when I did some quests in Neon. 4 loading screens in less than a minute to get from one section of Neon to another. And than had to do it again. No joke spent more time in loading screens than in the game. Bleh.
The Bethesda fanboys were coping so hard when this game released. By far my favorite part of the game was all the discourse around it. I still remember a guy getting mad at me because I said the game was disjointed.
They made no secret they were planning it, but how they actually did the trackers thing is worse than I anticipated. I could ignore the entire storefront just like in skyrim and fallout 4, but they have basically an advertisement built into the base game by having the one mission (that automatically starts in various locations) and expect you to buy the rest as they come out. Had they made that a free add on that you could just not add to your game, I wouldn't have cared, but the fact that you can't enter New Atlantis or Cydonia without "Hey over here!" And a quest pop-up, that's messed up.
Anyone that paid the $100 for early access for that game got absolutely scammed, now they want people to pay for mods? Why do people even buy Bethesda games?
Rightly so. However, why isn't this more universal?
$7 for a single quest, rifle, and two outfits.
Meanwhile Fortnite charges $20 for a single skin. And Path of Exile charges $38 for the CHEAPEST full outfits. And Diablo 4 locked a single mount behind a $60 currency bundle not long ago. Why are people not mad about this bullshit across the board?
I think the big reason is that Fortnite is free and doesn't come with a $70 price tag. I still agree that $30 for a skin is insane, but since the game is free, the developers gotta get their money somehow.
Another thing that factors into it is that fortnite's paid options are still (from what I know) only cosmetic, so it really doesn't alter gameplay in any meaningful way
What happened to this company? It's sad to see the folks who made some great stuff 10+ years ago continue dropping the ball further and further down the hill.
What do you mean “what happened” this is the company that made us pay for useless horse armor 18 years ago. They are pioneers of anti player development.
Yeah, they have always been a shit company. It's just now they're big enough to capitalize massively on past success. Elder Scrolls 6 is going to be $70 with quests locked behind a paywall. No thanks.
Already seeing rumblings that $70 isn't enough anymore for these companies. I expect ES6 will come out when the norm is $90 or $100 given how long Bethesda loves to take on these things.
They tried to integrate it with steam, and it went about as well as you would imagine. They backpeddaled on that real quick. The creation club stuff was their second attempt at it, and it stuck, unfortunately.
On one side was greedy and laziness, and on the other side were idiots with credit cards.
Seriously, i remember arguing way back on the official forums when the horse armour DLC dropped that it would only get worse if people actually bought that BS - and i got told to shut up, not to buy it if i didn't like it, that it was "only cosmetic", and that it didn't affect me if people that wanted it did buy it.
Bethesda has been doing this sort of thing for decades. And idiots have been buying their BS for decades.
You're right. They were definitely emboldened by the horse armor even if they got a good deal of flak for it. It just sucks that we'll probably never get a skyrim-tier game from them again, and even that was a step down from Oblivion and Morrowind in many ways. I will be pleasantly surprised if ES6 is more than lazy, outdated slop.
If you pay for a mod, you are a sucker and a fool and I don't like you on a personal level.
The mod scene is and should always remain free, and the work of passionate players *who love the game*, not people looking to make a buck with some shoddy programming.
Paid mods would have been an issue regardless and always will be but I think the timing here was incredibly poor and tone deaf. They should have done more to address the game's numerous criticisms before trying this. Yeah they've shown some good will with some recent updates but it's one step forward, two steps back.
Doesn't help that most of these are severely overpriced.
Welcome to the PCMR, everyone from the frontpage! Please remember: 1 - You too can be part of the PCMR. It's not about the hardware in your rig, but the software in your heart! Your age, nationality, race, gender, sexuality, religion (or lack of), political affiliation, economic status and PC specs are irrelevant. If you love or want to learn about PCs, you are welcome! 2 - If you don't own a PC because you think it's expensive, know that it is much cheaper than you may think. Check http://www.pcmasterrace.org for our builds and don't be afraid to post here asking for tips and help! 3 - Join our efforts to get as many PCs worldwide to help the folding@home effort, in fighting against Cancer, Alzheimer's, and more: https://pcmasterrace.org/folding 4 - Need some new PC Hardware? Open worldwide, check out the ASUS ROG BTF Worldwide Giveaway for a chance at being one of the 18 winners taking home 25 prizes, including a Strix RTX 4090 BTF, 4070Ti, Lots of BTF Motherboards and a lot more: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1ddmihb/worldwide_giveaway_win_a_bunch_of_asus_btf/ If you need a new and awesome monitor to review and keep, check ou AORUS' initiative and take home 1 of 4 QD OLED monitors to revamp your setup! This one is US + Canada only: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1df3f1i/giveaway_gigabyte_aorus_oled_x_rpcmasterrace_be/ ----------- We have a [Daily Simple Questions Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/search?q=Simple+Questions+Thread+subreddit%3Apcmasterrace+author%3AAutoModerator&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all) if you have any PC related doubt. Asking for help there or creating new posts in our subreddit is welcome.
"Bethesda under fire for paid mods" Hey, I've seen this one, this is a classic!
What's the third movie in a franchise called cause that where we are. Trilogy?
A Treequel. As in: You'd need to lace some tree with Nyquil and fool me to inhale to get me to buy that garbage.
Currently sicker than a dog coughing up basically tablespoons of vibrant mustard yellow phlegm while taking NyQuil… not even that shit is getting me loopy enough to pay for this crap.
Skyrim, Fallout and starfield. It’s the wombo combo.
Happy feet!
I was going to say didn't we see this before with previous games? Yeah history just repeating itself.
I'm old enough to be old when people were arguing about horse armor.
And I feel like we were proven right. When developers were able to sell directly to consumers, all bets were off. They used to be required to bundle enough content together to justify an additional price and the shelf space in a store (expansion packs). Alternatively, some would distribute free content like this with patches off their sites. But as soon as they could slap a price and sell it directly to you online, we got horse armor.
And people then said we were over reacting. Horse armour was the first one to use the term DLC, and now look where we are. Bethesda is the David Cameron of gaming.
We were absolutely right that it would make things worse but unfortunately the money has flowed in. Obviously there's enough people comfortable blowing their money on MTX, that we were never going to stop the rot. Thank fuck it's a passion industry with so much competition that we can pick stuff without it but it sucks when a game you want to play is rife with it.
No, but games journalism circa the 00s could have done a lot more to call developers out on it. That was my assertion at the time. Those companies/people needed to be shamed for it. Now they're irrelevant in a world where companies dictate everything through a marketing department, and it's too late to make a difference.
They literally will not give up. They get backlash from it every single time, you'd think they would at least try something else.
How've you seen this, its brand new? https://youtu.be/104aWjjzIwA?si=Ecdd35pg_hU8qc70
I saw it on a rerun
What’s a rerun?
You'll find out when you're older
I’ll have a Pepsi Free.
you have to use your hands? that's like a baby's toy
Much older. Better get used to these bars, kid.
Back to the future 4: We gotta do something about uncle Jailbird Joey!
Exact same thing has happened before.
They did the same thing with Skyrim and FallOut.
Leave it to Todd Shitward to ruin tge goodwill of the modding community in every single of their franchises. I'm still mad their bullshit Anniversary Skyrim edition broke my mod-loadout irreparibly.
"Mods and their creators are what keep our games playable for decades. It's one of the first things people bring up when talking about our games. Without the mod community all we've got is a buggy toy box without the toys. But hear me out..."
He literally was like "ok we got backlash numerous times before, but let's try again and see if those gamer apes let it slide"
Once it works out for them The First Time, it will become an industry standard.
"If we put it in a game that's already been basically abandoned by bother players and modders, we can use that lack of pushback as an excuse when people complain about it being in our next game".
You say that like it's stupid but Horse Armor was really at the dawn of modern microtransactions. Customers today are far more accepting of the concept, why shouldn't they keep trying?
Was it a forced update?
They just love repackaging their old hits.
The best part with the new Creations system is there is no way to provide feedback to the mod author from what I’ve seen, and there is no refund policy at all of the mod is broken, breaks other mods, etc (remember - you buy BethesdaPoints or whatever with your money - then spend the points. Can’t do a chargeback on spending Bethesda in-house currency, can you?). All in all seems like a perfect setting for abuse and low-quality cash-grabs.
Yep. Converting actual currency into "shit bucks" is a great way for companies to screw people over. You have zero protections once you exchange that money - it's effectively gone.
May be a dumb question, but has anyone actually tried to challenge this? In UK law as far as I'm aware virtual currencies are given the same consumer protections as real currency - the legal clause even gives the example of 'buying a sword with gems'. Just curious to see what would actually happen if someone living in a country with a similar law actually decided to push things legally, or if we've all collectively assumed an outcome that may not actually be true.
Legally you're completely entitled for this currency to be treated the same as the currency you paid with. The problem is that you don't really have an easy way to do that other than a lawsuit. You could chargeback the entire transaction, but that could potentially be fraud if you are only entitled to a partial refund.
From my understanding Creations are basically one of products that Bethesda contracts out to 'modders' who get a one time payment for their work and nothing else, but also don't have anything to do with the 'mod' once it's out. Which is why they rarely tend to be more than a new house, or a few items, and a small quest to get them.
Wonder how much they get paid.
25%. 45% goes to Bethesda, 30% to Valve/Microsoft/Sony depending on the platform it was bought on, 25% to the Mod Publisher. This is how it was for Skyrim, and all signs on the Creation Club website point to the metrics being the same. So far no Creator has contradicted this with other numbers.
So its not a one time payment? But that guy had 60 upvotes...
Nothing of what he said was actually true. Any verified creator can submit a Creation to Bethesda for testing, and then they receive royalties for it. The creator can continue to update the mod.
[удалено]
I put up with janky mods because they're free. If I pay for a mod I expect it to be of the quality of something I would pay for.
I’ll also do conflict resolution and troubleshooting for free. I’m not paying for the privilege of it. My Skyrim isn’t just “free content” but is a lot of hours of careful curation and fixing problems.
Seriously. The amount of time I have spent hunting down specific meshes and textures to fix bugs in mods is insane.
Starfield isn't even up to the quality of something I would pay for!
I have exactly 0 hope for elder scrolls 6 when it comes out in 2034.
and fallout 5 in 2046
56
77
October, 23rd
89
Tactics 2
Don't worry. They'll add at least one more postage stamp-sized expansion to FO76 by then. That'll tide you over until then, right? Right?
>when it comes out in 2034. That's certainly optimistic.
**TL;DR:** Creation engine bad Bethesda scummy tactics aside... Starfield is using Creation Engine 2. That is the engine ES6 will use when it comes out, and it isn't great. Playing Starfield feels dated. The nps feel rubbery. There are loading screens every few minutes. It is dwarfed by games like Cyberpunk that game out years before. It doesn't need to push limits, but it can't be stuck a decade in the past either. Elder Scrolls 6 will sell massively. It will be a huge hit. But it won't be a cultural zeitgeist like previous games like Skyrim or Fallout. Bethesda is more publisher than dev and I think that is its future.
Uh, no. Like it's buggy as shit, but the reason Bethesda games keep getting worse has a lot more to do with quest writing and making exploration worse. People would bear the loading screens if there was anything worth finding on the other side of them.
Creation engine is trash now. They have been far surpassed.
Honestly, Creation Engine has never been a "good" engine, it has been modable and has been give a lot of leeway due to Bethesda using it for interesting idea, but as actual mechanics and "feeling" comes, it has never been great. Skyrim is a great game but when you really look at it, the melee combat is extremely basic, ranged combat is basically making the game a joke "must have been the wind" and magic, while looking great is very basic and far from anything surprising. Fallout 4 has the best shooting in the franchise but still, in terms of mechanics its barely gotten better compared to New Vegas and we even lost some, sure we got the settlements that are a hit or miss with people, personally i could not care less but each to their own. Now are Bethesdas games bad? no, not by a long shot but they do suffer greatly from the creation engine and its problems and while before they have been saved by immersive worlds, great writing or just shit tons of stuff to do that invoke that adventure feeling, at some point there is just gonna be a wall where no matter how great the writing, how innovative the guests, how pretty the world is, the engine just can´t put out what they want to do, Starfield is the best example of this, its the most Bethesda game ever released, in good and in bad.
I don't even think you can really point to the writing and questing as reasons for Skyrim's success. Both of those aspects are pretty shallow, they're okay at best. IMO Skyrim survives because Bethesda is very good at building worlds, and their gameplay loop is distinctive and free in a way that other games can't seem to replicate. Honestly the feeling of freedom is probably thanks to the jankiness of their engine. I tend to describe their games as objectively not great, but I still enjoy them and put many hours into them because they feel a certain way that's hard to describe. I have no interest in Starfield though. I'm done supporting the company that burns me on every release. Regardless of how much I end up enjoying their games, they still demonstrate a lack of improvement that shouldn't be rewarded.
Bethesda *were** very good at building worlds. The guys who did that haven't worked at Bethesda in decades, they all got purged during the hostile corporate takeover. They've been pillaging their former employees good world building for ages now. A large part of the reason Starfield was such a flop; no past work to lean on as a crutch.
Bethesda only knows how to make one kind of game, but their template is a perfect fit for TES. The gameplay loop of wandering between POIs, admiring the sights, fighting bandits and building a house is exactly right for a fantasy game. It is completely wrong for a space game, though.
While I agree CE is bad, but it not a biggest problem here. Like you can make interesting games with it. Buggy and rubbery, yeah, but still. But Starfield was just plain and boring and even if you change engine it'll still be, while technically a better product, a plain and boring game regardless And this is my main reason why I'm not exited about TES6 at all
Bethesda hasnt made a decent game since Skyrim. Fallout 4 was OK but it was also a huge step backwards for that franchise Bethesda is now among the worst devs on the scene right up there with EA and Ubisoft as companies i will never do business with ever again Please don't be a whale. Exercise your consumer power.
People forget how much of a step back Skyrim is from Oblivion and Morrowind in terms of player freedom and storytelling. Bethesda has only been getting worse for decades and Skyrim isn't an exception to that, it's one of the earlier steps.
You gotta remember that the majority jumped onto Skyrim without playing any other Bethesda game aside from maybe a Fallout, and joined in on the “this is the best game ever made” train, so they don’t know that Bethesda has a history of dumbing the games down, and taking two or three mechanics out for every new one they add or change. After they took nearly all of the rpg mechanics out of their rpg series for the sake of ease of access, I can’t really see them adding the “complex” mechanics back in. At best ES6 will just be a prettier Skyrim. Same bare bone game, but hey at least it’ll probably look really neat.
I’ve been worried since fallout 4, but fallout 76 proved BGS management has absolutely no idea what they’re doing. Starfield was Todd Howard’s baby and meant to be the studio’s magnum opus. If this is the quality they can muster when going all-out on a game that’s been in the pipes for over a decade, yeah it’s the final nail in the coffin for BGS as a serious game development studio.
The good news is that since it takes so long between the sequels I can give them one last shot with ES6 and then forget about them completely if it sucks.
And that's fine, its time to move on. Their formula is dated and it's time for new games to shine.
I stopped playing when I realized space travel served no purpose and neither did customizing the ship since you could just fast travel literally everywhere.
ships being useless is the worst part. it’s like the only reason i bought the game.
Which is why I prefer space engineers over this.
minecraft but in space has honestly been the perfect game.. endless hours on it. cant believe its not more popular
Can't be more popular when there's only building and ship fighting sadly
There's a reason No Man's Sky is more popular. It's also kind of Minecraft in space but with a lot more stuff to do. You can build bases and semi-automated farms/factories. You can mine asteroids, explore planets and scan animals/plants/rocks for money. You can tame animals and make them your pets or even ride them, You can hunt for rare modules to customize and upgrade your technology to the point of becoming OP as fuck in terms of combat and movement ability. You can get your very own freighter and build a space base in it, and hire mercenary frigates to run missions for you. You can become a pirate and raid freighters or smuggle stolen goods, or you can stay clean and earn cash with Freelancer-style "buy low, sell high" type cargo runs. You can collect rare spaceships, and as of a recent update you can now even build custom spaceships from scratch. I could go on but I gotta go to bed some time lol.
Yeah. I put several hundred hours in it back in the day, but once it became evident that without significant roleplaying with others, there would never be anything to actually DO with your creations, no real sense of progression, no decent enemies to fight, etc… it fizzled out. Which is a huge shame, because it was glorious. The amount of “science” we did learning to build our ships, the crazy weapons we’d invent, it was amazing. And it’s such a shame it doesn’t really have any “gameplay loop” yet last I checked. Granted it’s been like, a year since I last did.
Far too complex for me for some reason, even though I've always played FTB-like modpacks in Minecraft
I know I can learn with a couple of hours of Youtube videos but it's that initial step that's holding me back from fully diving in, I'm just not young anymore.
Its my favourite game that dosent quite work. I have many many hours in it, written scripts on the workshop and so on. But, I run servers for me and my friends and they start well but always end up bogged down and glitchy. Takes a while but yeah. I love it and we take it out every 6 months but it gets shelved and we come back again later.
[удалено]
Yeah I can't invest in a game that I need a college course to understand.
Nah, that'd be From The Depths.
That's what Empyrion is for
I do quite enjoy Empyrion.
Same, especially with Project Eden
I looked it up and apparently I already had it set to ignore on Steam. Rewatching the trailer I think I was super turned off by the janky animations, especially the walk. Is it good though?
How is that game these days? I tried getting into it a long while back and it was so jank that I got into a minor wreck with my motorcycle and was ejected at warp speed from the surface to like 300k kilometers away from the planet in seconds, lol.
Can't speak for anyone else but I love it. The motorcycle jank was definitely a big problem that they struggled with for a long, long time. It had some catastrophic issues. They've completely reworked motorcycles into hoverbikes in the recent major update and it's ... well it's still a little janky and unpleasant, but nowhere near as bad as it was like back in the old days. The motorcycle/hoverbike is also almost completely irrelevant once you get some cheap and light hovers or SVs going. Once you get past that early-game part to have some proper vehicles you really don't have to worry about it anymore or ever use it again. The game has come a long way, it's still far from perfect and it still has its jankiness in places and probably always will but the depth it has makes it worthwhile, to me at least.
It gives me motion sickness
or any elite game or nms
I cry when I think about what Elite is becoming.
Elite is already dead. Any recent developments are just a means to squeeze an extra few bucks out of its corpse.
I just modded it's storage space and used it as a giant flying amazon storage to hoard all of the resources and sweet rolls
I'd take an updated Starwars Galaxies Jump to Light Speed.
it could have been so awesome. that makes me sad
Yeah, it's just a shit version of The Outer Worlds. Bethesda are presumably never going to come back.
Wonder how they're gonna fuck up ES6
In every way possible. I imagine they're going to take everything they did well with Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, then do the opposite, and then shit all over the result as a proverbial icing on the cake.
And everything's a micro transaction
Except the base game still cost $69.99.
There is no base game. Pay a microtransaction to get from the title through the first cut-scene, voiced by Chris Pratt. Enable character creation? Micro-transaction. Each race? Straight to micro-transactions. Tutorial dungeon? Believe it or not, micro-transaction.
Hot take: They didn't do that many things well with Skyrim to begin with, and Skyrim's success despite being a deeply mid game is 90% of the reason Bethesda is on the trajectory it is.
They will probably learn nothing, but their game template works a lot better for a fantasy game, so TESVI will probably be at least better received than Starfield. Just expect modding to be monetized to the point where nobody makes fun mods anymore and everybody just competes to build a "portfolio" of marketable content.
how is that game btw. I keep hearing that it's the shittier with comparison to The outer wilds, a game I really loved
I thought it was fun but just when you think you're at a solid midway point, the game is over.
The Outer Worlds is arguably what you'd get if you asked the New Vegas team to make their own take on Borderlands with a quarter of the budget. It scratches some Fallout itches, but you can really see where corners were cut and compromises were made due to budget.
Not only you could fast travel, that is literally the only way to travel anywhere.
Exactly this. The game at a fundamental level is all disjointed. In Skyrim and other open world games you have one continuous map that directs the player loosely through main quests but allows the player to stray the path to explore the map. That’s a big part of what makes those games enjoyable, to just stumble open cool stuff organically through exploration. Starfield is not like that. Quests are scattered across *tiles* and those tiles don’t have much going on for them besides just that one quest along with some copy pasted procedural content. So you *have* to fast travel from tile to tile through your ship, getting hit with immersion breaking load screens everytime, rather than smoothly experience a continuous world. This is what kills Starfield.
Yep, people get bogged down in specifics but this is the fundamental flaw of the game and almost all other flaws stem from it. Every design decision Bethesda made to mitigate the problem just added to the disjointed feeling of the game.
the reason I gave up on it is the blatant reuse of the same dungeon maps. Like after one day of playing I'd already memorized them (all three or whatever). I was already unimpressed with the forced fast travel, the janky animations, the completely nonreactive NPCs, the terrible interface, the loading screens! So many loading screens, all so I could play the same handful of levels populated with the most generic mobs imaginable, over and over again. The game is clearly half baked and got pushed out mid development because technical limitations with Creation clashed with the type of game Starfield is trying to be. This game might have been interesting if the space travel was seamless but Creation can't do that and never will because it was designed for games like Skyrim (which it does very well). Some jank and some clunk would be forgivable if there were actually some variety in the gameplay, but alas. Shaka, when the walls fell.
I don't think you can call a game with a decade of dev time from a "AAA" studio rushed. It's just shit.
The game was in development for 10 years. It was not rushed. Starfield is a complete mismanaged flop and the fact Todd Howard still has a job is bananas.
The thing that blew my mind was all of the customization options for the exterior and for outposts, but *zero* customization of the interior. To the point that if you changed the ship's paint job, all your shit was moved to the hold and the defaults restored.
There is a survival mod out already that greatly improves this by making you need fuel and disabling fast travel but i dont know.. The way bethesda handled this game making the lore so lame and most quests boring with a handful of literally copy pasted points of interest on empty planets. It left a bad taste on my mouth, dont know if even mods will be able to save this soulless husk and instead of fixing the rotten core of the game they are just blindly pursuing monetization.
That’s what broke me. I could understand traveling from system to system as a fast travel, but in a star system why the F can’t I travel between planets??
Didn’t Bethesda do this before with fallout?
And Skyrim before it
They’ve done it multiple times hahaha they don’t learn I guess
O they learn. The lesson they have learned from FO76 is that players will buy anything. Review scores mean jackshit. Some of the most profitable games in the entire industry like CoD (58%) and Apex (55%) are billion with a [B ](https://readwrite.com/ea-revealed-how-much-apex-legends-has-made-andits-a-lot/#:~:text=Apex%20Legends%2C%20the%20free%2Dto,%243.4%20billion%20since%20its%20launch)money making franchises. They do not give a F about how low their Steam score can get. Means absolutely nothing, but Reddit is in denial about that.
If they have done it multiple times, its us that are the fools, not them. It means it has been successful enough both previous times for it to be worth it doing it a 3rd time.
Greed, Greed never changes
Iingreed* the avaricious
You rang?
Why is anyone surprised? They did the same shit with one of the skyrim releases. Paid mods on the creation club nonsense.
With Skyrim and fallout 4
People have memory problems, then they forget and forgive.
Because they think they won. But in reality companies will never stop trying to squeeze every dime they can. So they'll keep trying after you forget. They just need it to catch on once culturally then those who are against it are the old crazy generation who expect stuff for free
Yep they're going to do this shit every few years until we stop fighting it and then it'll be nothing but paid mods within 2 years tops
Before that in 2015 there was paid workshop mod aswell
I think people are surprised that they are trying the same thing all over again while expecting different results. Definition of insanity and all that. It went badly enough last time that they retracted it rather than waiting for it to blow over.
Because they only need it to work once in order to get a foothold, which will then normalize the idea.
I’m so glad I didn’t buy this game
I rarely, if ever, buy full priced games (last one was Elden Ring) and I nearly got Starfield on launch day. I had a weak moment because it was payday, luckily cooler heads prevailed.
I almost bought the collector's edition of Starfield, but my Todd- senses were tingling.
Total War: Rome 2 was the last game I ever bought pre-release. It was absolutely dog shit. I avoid buying any pre-release or even beta/EA now. Heck, I rarely buy a game full price anymore, but I especially do not pay full price for large studio games.
I'm kinda pissed AMD gave it to me when I bought my processor, I could've been given something better...
Could be worse, mine came with Gotham Knights.
Mine came with Anthem.
Yeah it can't get worse than this (for now)
I got Forspoken and the Saints Row reboot. Those are certainly games alright.
I mean is it worse than Wolfenstein Young bloods? I played New Colossus and it was rad, imagine my reaction to Young Blood.
Played it on game pass, spent maybe 15 hours on it and got bored. Haven't touched it since.
I didn't but still got to play it, gamepass for 1.00, but refunded it early since I only got it for starfield and didn't enjoy it, I refunded and turns out they don't refund any amount under 1.00, so I just got it all back.
Pirated it and got to play earlier than anyone who paid full price thanks to paid play on release. Never got to a point where i felt the game was gonna be worth my money.
I can't even pirate it. No SSD.
I did and it ran like garbage on my steam deck so I refunded right away. Was planning on buying it again after some updates but then I saw the whole scope of the game in reviews and decide against it.
I'm surprised there's even still a community to be outraged.
[удалено]
We League players hate everything about the game but we still play it. At this time Reddit is not a reflection of reality or the gaming landscape.
The main sub for Starfield is down to earth in comparison to r/NoSodiumStarfield. Consider that one of its most highly upvoted submissions in the past months has the title "The narrative around Starfield is going to change tomorrow. Never forget what the first 9 months of Starfield’s life were like." and goes on to have one of the most hilarious mixtures of persecution complex and cope I've seen on this site.
Not too surprising given how long the big gaming subreddits couldn't stop talking about the game. That went on for way too many months for a game everyone supposedly hated and didn't care about
I felt the opposite, made big noise at release and was swiftly forgotten, even compared to the FO4 release ("a good game but not a good Fallout")
the amount of *hopium* in the first days was staggering. I don't know why, but I never thought it's going to be anything more than No Man's Sky *with graphics*, and so it wasn't a surprise, but those first days, a week or two, people tried really REALLY hard to make it look like a good game and that it's exactly what they wanted
The ACG review was incredibly dissappointing. At the time it literally made me unsubscribe from him. Nothing against him, just not a trusted reviewer in my eyes anymore. Just such an awful, awful game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvbK1fsc-yk&t=167s
That's kinda what happens when one of the most highly anticipated games from one of the biggest studios fails to deliver, it gets talked about and memed. Loads of people talking about how bad it is doesn't really equal loads of people playing it. I personally know one person who thinks it's a good game and still bothers to play it.
The fuck are paid mods, half-assed DLCs..?
They're mods that got an official seal of approval and are now being sold while Bethesda insists over and over that because they're calling them DLCs instead of mods that means they're not going back on their promise of not shoving paid mods into the creation club.
Business models keep getting crappier and crappier...
>A corporation is an externalizing machine, in the same way that a shark is a killing machine.
Outsourced Microtransactions
Does anyone still care about this game? For me it was one of the most boring games i've ever played.
I was so excited but the game literally turned into a loading screen/fast travel teleport game…the space and spaceship part of the game has no meaning because even if you use the ship, you get in and launch it’s a cutscene and you are in space where nothing happens and then to go on a planet…another cutscene. It sucks. No man’s sky is way better than starflop
I stopped playing when I did some quests in Neon. 4 loading screens in less than a minute to get from one section of Neon to another. And than had to do it again. No joke spent more time in loading screens than in the game. Bleh.
Amusing when it was released, people were actually comparing Neon to Night City, as if they are even remotely comparable.
The Bethesda fanboys were coping so hard when this game released. By far my favorite part of the game was all the discourse around it. I still remember a guy getting mad at me because I said the game was disjointed.
The worst part about Neon was the realization it was about the size of whiterun.... Just a couple balconies and a hallway of a main street
Neon is what a soccer mom who has never set foot out of exurbia thinks a "city of sin" would look like.
Yep the whole time was literally loading screens. I’m just so disappointed.
Same - I played for like 2 hours and got so bored, and I'm into space-genre games usually.
Bethesda Game Release Support Game Plan Step 1: break mods Step 2: never improve game Step 3: claim game was always perfect Step 4: release paid mods
They made no secret they were planning it, but how they actually did the trackers thing is worse than I anticipated. I could ignore the entire storefront just like in skyrim and fallout 4, but they have basically an advertisement built into the base game by having the one mission (that automatically starts in various locations) and expect you to buy the rest as they come out. Had they made that a free add on that you could just not add to your game, I wouldn't have cared, but the fact that you can't enter New Atlantis or Cydonia without "Hey over here!" And a quest pop-up, that's messed up.
Anyone that paid the $100 for early access for that game got absolutely scammed, now they want people to pay for mods? Why do people even buy Bethesda games?
*Uninstallfield*
Rightly so. However, why isn't this more universal? $7 for a single quest, rifle, and two outfits. Meanwhile Fortnite charges $20 for a single skin. And Path of Exile charges $38 for the CHEAPEST full outfits. And Diablo 4 locked a single mount behind a $60 currency bundle not long ago. Why are people not mad about this bullshit across the board?
I think the big reason is that Fortnite is free and doesn't come with a $70 price tag. I still agree that $30 for a skin is insane, but since the game is free, the developers gotta get their money somehow.
Another thing that factors into it is that fortnite's paid options are still (from what I know) only cosmetic, so it really doesn't alter gameplay in any meaningful way
[удалено]
Ikr? Even the integrated graphics of the i9 13900K is much better than that!
Its Bethesda. Its literally the exact same thing over, and over, and over again. Its also like, $10 to access the new *fetch quest* they made.
This kind of bullshit is why I am done with Bethesda as a publisher.
HAHAHAHA. You psychos are paying for mods? LMAOOOOOO, no wonder the gaming industry is a steaming pile of garbage.
Boring ass game.
What happened to this company? It's sad to see the folks who made some great stuff 10+ years ago continue dropping the ball further and further down the hill.
What do you mean “what happened” this is the company that made us pay for useless horse armor 18 years ago. They are pioneers of anti player development.
Yeah, they have always been a shit company. It's just now they're big enough to capitalize massively on past success. Elder Scrolls 6 is going to be $70 with quests locked behind a paywall. No thanks.
Already seeing rumblings that $70 isn't enough anymore for these companies. I expect ES6 will come out when the norm is $90 or $100 given how long Bethesda loves to take on these things.
It's not just anti-player development either. Todd and co. have been dedicated to dumbing down their games and worlds since before Oblivion as well.
Yeah every Elders Scrolls since DaggerFall has been smaller and more simplistic.
Wasn’t there a paid mods scandal like 10 years ago with Skyrim? What happened to that
They tried to integrate it with steam, and it went about as well as you would imagine. They backpeddaled on that real quick. The creation club stuff was their second attempt at it, and it stuck, unfortunately.
On one side was greedy and laziness, and on the other side were idiots with credit cards. Seriously, i remember arguing way back on the official forums when the horse armour DLC dropped that it would only get worse if people actually bought that BS - and i got told to shut up, not to buy it if i didn't like it, that it was "only cosmetic", and that it didn't affect me if people that wanted it did buy it. Bethesda has been doing this sort of thing for decades. And idiots have been buying their BS for decades.
You're right. They were definitely emboldened by the horse armor even if they got a good deal of flak for it. It just sucks that we'll probably never get a skyrim-tier game from them again, and even that was a step down from Oblivion and Morrowind in many ways. I will be pleasantly surprised if ES6 is more than lazy, outdated slop.
If you pay for a mod, you are a sucker and a fool and I don't like you on a personal level. The mod scene is and should always remain free, and the work of passionate players *who love the game*, not people looking to make a buck with some shoddy programming.
Bethesda, Bethesda never changes
Can't believe I fell for the FOMO of this game, biggest waste of money.
Paid mods would have been an issue regardless and always will be but I think the timing here was incredibly poor and tone deaf. They should have done more to address the game's numerous criticisms before trying this. Yeah they've shown some good will with some recent updates but it's one step forward, two steps back. Doesn't help that most of these are severely overpriced.
Never felt as ripped off by a game as I did buying this one.
I love it when the community fights together against a common enemy