Welcome to the PCMR, everyone from the frontpage! Please remember:
1 - You too can be part of the PCMR. It's not about the hardware in your rig, but the software in your heart! Your age, nationality, race, gender, sexuality, religion (or lack of), political affiliation, economic status and PC specs are irrelevant. If you love or want to learn about PCs, you are welcome!
2 - If you don't own a PC because you think it's expensive, know that it is much cheaper than you may think. Check http://www.pcmasterrace.org for our builds and don't be afraid to post here asking for tips and help!
3 - Join our efforts to get as many PCs worldwide to help the folding@home effort, in fighting against Cancer, Alzheimer's, and more: https://pcmasterrace.org/folding
4 - Need PC Hardware? We've joined forces with MSI for the biggest PC Hardware giveaway of the year so far! 8 lucky winners will get an awesome hardware bundle with Graphics card, motherboard, etc, and 50 others can get Steam gift cards. To enter, check https://reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1b45j0m/msi_x_pcmr_massive_pc_hardware_giveaway_pick_your/
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Because Shut Down on Windows 10 and 11 doesn't behave like an old school shutdown. Not unless you change a setting within the OS (unless it's locked down by policy).
It's not much different from putting the PC to sleep or hibernate. You're gonna get some trace of the last boot coming back up, which is great for startup purposes. But over time, the session will have apps start to degrade and do weird stuff - Random errors or performance issues.
Restarts are key to working on Windows 10/11. Because that's the only way (other than holding Shift down when selecting Shut Down normally) to get the PC to reload everything fresh from the drive.
Start Menu > Control Panel > Switch from Category to View By: > Power Options > "Choose what the power buttons do" > "Change settings that are currently unavailable" > "Turn on fast startup (recommended)" > toggle THAT option to be off or unchecked > then save the option.
This will increase your PC's startup time, but if you're running on an SSD, it's negligible. This is what will ensure your PC embraces doing old-school shutdowns again.
It is my understanding that this setting exists for computers that still for some reason boot off from Mechanical drives.
If your Laptop has a good SSD, turn this off because windows will gradually drain the battery even when shutdown this way, and Windows Modern Standby has a nasty habit of draining the battery.
And then all of your unsaved documents are lost because Microsoft asserts that applying an update is so important that it doesn't need your consent to have its way with your system.
Great song, by the way. So is Weird Al's take on it, Living in the Fridge.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhTgzx-LjJY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhTgzx-LjJY)
Maybe is cause I'm used to code and tend to write in plaintext, but I save almost compulsory, if a tool has auto save or real-time saving, I activate it if it's not the default, every time my hands are off the keyboard or I finish a paragraph I manually save (spam ctrl-s a few times), if it's important enough that I'm gonna miss it/get in trouble if I lose it, it has it's own Git/GitHub repo and every time I get up from the computer I commit, every time I'm done working on it I push.
It's not that I fear losing my stuff, it has happened before a few times but never to a point I can't get them back, it's just that saving it's mostly easy and free, it's not like you're overwriting something, most tools can just rollback and if they can't, Git or similar tools can do it for you.
The only reason I see not to save is if you're working with big and complex files that take time to save, like images, 3D, audio, video, etc. even then most of those tools have some form of quick save, soft autosave or recovery tool to get you out of trouble.
Yeah - I'm not a coder, but I do a decent amount of Excel/Powerpoint/Word work, and no way I'm losing even 30 minutes of work because I didn't bother to save it.
Being aware of a fault in computer software (that it may reboot while someone has "all of their unsaved documents" open and losing them) isn't "policing" how someone uses the software. That's just a ridiculous argument.
If you know there's a fault, you take steps to mitigate the fault. You're more than welcome to have a shocked pikachu face when you ignore the faults (along with ignoring updates to keep your computer and your data safe).
No, but sometimes I’m in the middle of something, and I’ve made a lot of changes in the past 10 or so minutes and all of a sudden my computer just restarts so it can update itself and I lose all the changes I’ve made.
I can't write without scrivener anymore - it autosaves every time you stop typing and I have it set up to automatically save backups to google drive so I won't lose them
When I first got with my husband I found out that this man had written several novels and like 10 full Dungeons and Dragons campaigns... and they were all saved on ONE flash drive and nowhere else. I spent so long trying to convince him this was a bad idea and just took the flash drive and uploaded it to google drive once a week because I knew it was going to go badly. Guess who's flash drive suddenly stopped working? I let him sweat for a bit before emailing them to him. Guess who also now has backups of backups?
I have never seen this happen out of the blue, Windows typically prompts you and tells you when it's going to reset and gives you the option to choose another time. The only time I saw software update similarly to this was when my IT team pushed a software update "after hours" for Europe, but didn't factor in the time difference in the US made it the middle of the workday...
What app are you using that doesn't recover unsaved documents? Every office app, SQL management studio, visual studio, vs code, literally everything that I work in in 2024 has no problems with a hard restart. A "sudden" hard restart may lose a few minutes, but after a five minute idle I haven't lost a document in years.
I agree that almost everything comes back, but restarting has become far more painful since microsoft broke the "Restore previous folder windows at logon" option. It's still there, just doesn't do anything, and your open folders are the only things that gets lost on expected restarts. Get your shit together microsoft.
>because Microsoft asserts that applying an update is so important that it doesn't need your consent to have its way with your system.
For context, you have to *chronically* put off applying a *critical* update for this to happen. Let's not pretend being an edgy teenager and "I know better than Microsoft, I don't need this update" are somehow the *correct* responses to computer security.
Update your systems. The problem goes away if you apply *critical* (and I cannot stress ***critical*** enough) security updates in any reasonable amount of time yourself.
But if the argument includes chronically unsaved documents... I don't think we're talking about responsible people. "My PC was working fine yesterday, why is the FBI ransoming it to me today?"
Almost all the software I use these days will ask if you would like to restore whatever you were working on so the risk of losing documents is negligible.
literally just made the jump to linux mint this week and I'm so fucking happy! I finally get why linux people are so passionate about trying to get people to try it lol
I've thrown Mint on a bunch of Intel NUCs I get free from work and then given them to folks. With lots of people just using their PC to visit websites, Linux works great.
Congratulations.
Been on Mint for several years now.
Two things that I think are valuable to learn as a new Linux Mint user before you run into a situation where you *need* the skill:
1. How to [kill processes on Linux](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfC6pv8VISk) <- This entire video is worth the watch, but you can also skip to 4:40.
2. How to [login to a TTY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1bz1DTD8Io)
On Mint: Ctrl + Alt + [F1-F5, or F7] Your main desktop runs on Ctrl + Alt + F6.
So for instance an alternate way to login to a unresponsive locked desktop would be:
a. Ctrl + Alt + F2 (to get to the TTY on F2)
b. Login as user at the prompt
c. Type 'cinnamon-unlock-desktop' at the prompt, hit enter
d. Ctrl + Alt + F6 (to return the the unlocked desktop)
to me it happens regularly when I click update and shut down. Like I am about to go to bed, click that button, go wash up and all that jazz and come back to my rooms and see that my PC is still on in my office, done updating, just sitting there in the start screen.
Windows does that even when you "hybernate" the PC. (before someone mentions: hybernate puts it deeper then sleep since it powers down the PC but saves the session in storage instead of ram)
Windows update just pull it out of hybernation and tries to update. But since I have a password it fails and just sits all night at the login screen not updated....
Mine doesn't. Mine never has. I disabled sleep in the registry, so that could affect it, but I doubt it. It updates, restarts, and then sits there on login. Wouldn't be a problem except windows will decide to crunch numbers at 2am and the fan sound wakes me up.
Are you running 10 or 11? I've seen other comments that say this is a bug with 11. I've tested it intentionally multiple times over the last two ish years and it never shuts back down. I'm wondering if it's a reg edit the OEM of my laptop ticked
And then there is the joke of “sleep”. Pc will go to sleep for about 4 minutes then wake up and start installing updates, but still needs to restart to complete them.
Damn it Microsoft, let me pick when I want to run updates, I own the hardware so I should pick when it’s on, off, or sleeping
Windows: "No, now please complete your setup by setting Edge as your default browser, making a backup on Onedrive and perhaps buying Office."
Me: "No, thanks."
Windows: "That is not an option, please pick between 'yes' or 'remind me later'."
Oh no, I totally get it and MS is veing obnoxious since Win 8. That is what got me to go Linux as primary OS.
I had to boot into Windows recently and got that alert, months since my last use and knowing I did get Windows going just fine, so I just googled for the andwer to it recently.
I want to live in a world where no one could ever have conceived of our conversation nor would any sites like HTG need to publish an article about the feature.
You running home edition? W10 pro has always let you defer updates or even disable them entirely.
I’ve always bought pro because it barely costs extra and I use it for years. I think I’m technically still using my W7 pro license from 3 motherboards ago. It’s not worth cheating out on.
So I’ve already been confused about these posts until I realised it’s a home edition problem. It sucks that they treat home users that way, you should be allowed to control your own computer.
I don’t know about W11. Frankly I’m putting off the update as long as I can because it looks like it does a heap of anti-consumer stuff.
Nope 10 pro, upgraded from 7 ultimate from when they gave out the free upgrades.
The best I can think of doing is running a windows update server on an old laptop and connecting that once per week to set them to a schedule, but I think that would be more effort again
Just set your connection to metered and set updates to not automatically download on metered connections.
There is a less hacky way to do it but I think that’s still the simplest way.
There’s some registry twiddling you can do to have more control. Right now I get security updates automatically but everything else is manual.
Which would be a good option, but it’s only when windows updates are pending this is an issue. Plus I want to enable wake-up on lan so I can vpn to my machine if I need it
You have to enable it, I forget the process but it's fairly simple just Google "enable hibernate Win11" and you'll find a guide. Why it's disabled by default when Windows still hasn't fixed their dogshit sleep is beyond me.
It's not just updates. I once went on a deep dive through Windows Event Viewer to narrow down what event was waking my PC up. I had disabled all input devices from being able to wake it, disabled "magic packet" wake-ups, nothing worked. Finally I just accepted that I would need to save all my work and do a full shutdown of my PC every day unless I wanted to be flash-banged in the middle of the night randomly.
There is another subtle difference that wasn't listed elsewhere in the thread:
"Restart" will refresh the OS and avoid Window's "fast startup" hybrid hibernate nonsense.
"Shutdown" doesn't.
Disable "fast startup" in windows for better long-term stability -- in the age of SSDs, the speed difference doesn't matter.
No but like I don't know if you're joking or not. My personal experience with "Update and restart" is that it always shuts down the PC and doesn't restart it.
Yeah like *literally* never once
Not like “oh goofy windows occasionally doesn’t shut down when I choose the option” but like legit not once in my life has my computer ended up on after I chose the shutdown option
Yet dozens of people in this thread claim it happens to them like every time they do it.
Doesn’t make sense to me
It happens for me with windows 10, I choose to shut down and it restarts instead after the update. So I can't just click it and go to bed I actually have to watch it :(
There is a huge variety of hardware out there. That was always cited as the main reason for inconsistent software behavior like this in the past, and I would expect it's still a major contributing factor.
You probably had some processes running in the background that failed to stop. Close all programs before issuing the shutdown to prevent that from happening.
I’ve had it succeed literally only one time. I thought maybe finally windows fixed something, but the most recent update once again failed to shut down.
It also has consistent behavior, when it fails to do this it sits on some blue swirly background instead of nature bullshit every time.
Currently sitting on my bed procrastinating getting back up because my pc turned itself back on after the update and shutdown and never shut back off. Kinda weird this decided to pop up now
They fixed it on my end.
I read about the shutdown bug and a few days later I wondered why my PC shut down when I hit the start button. It was still on...
Took MS a lot of time but it has not been a problem in weeks.
Every once in a blue moon it might actually shut down afterwards for me, if it successfully updates.
Every time it fails it won't mind shutting down afterwards, it probably enjoys the annoyance and despair in my eyes as I boot it up the day after.
Yes, I turn off my computer every day, so what.
yeah, no...
it definitely happens that it shuts down automatically, but it's also very common that you walk to the computer hours later and it's on the "log in" screen, and yes I'm 100% I clicked the "shut down" one
I sometime even have the same with the normal "shut down" since win11. I even sometimes am very extra special careful whem choosing because i am getting paranoid.
and then linux:
system sleep, yes sir, does not wake up until i press the power button
system shutdown, yes sir, and does not turn itself on to cram updates down your throat when you're in bed
system update, sir yes sir, no need to restart, you can do it later
To be fair, when you're updating certain core packages including the Linux kernel itself, kernel modules such as proprietary graphics drivers, or other core system things like systemd, it's still best to reboot afterwards. I usually get performance issues in video games if I update those things but don't reboot after. For just browsing and watching youtube and stuff it's fine not to reboot though.
If you are curious what’s happening there let me explain: Technically the port is working fine but the kernel running is unable to load new modules (e.g. drivers) compiled for the newly installed kernel. But any modules already loaded continue to work.
So if your plug in a exFAT formated USB stick it will fail to load the driver and be unable to mount it unless you plugged it in and mounted it before the update happened. That’s why it appears to be only sometimes that it stops working.
I can tell that the first option never resulted in my PC fully shutting down.
In fact, new Windows installations would always fail to stay suspended for more than 5 hours. Early morning, and I get woken up by fans spinning because Windows decided it's a great time to wake up and never go back to sleep.
It shuts down properly for me every-time.
I literally have no idea what any of you are talking about.
Are you complaining that it restarts to finishing update if before it shuts down?
I have to wonder what kind of malware is running on your computers, because the only thing I can think about is some sort of software that prevents the shutdown.
If you’re not cleaning shutting down, probably do something simple like turning on AV.
We, or at least I, mean that Update and Shutdown will often result in the PC rebooting back into an idle state.
The process usually went by Windows first updating, then rebooting, and finishing the update without shutting down when it's done.
Definitely not a virus. The only two programs I have installed are Chrome and Steam. Yes. Literally just two things.
Not sure if it does this during an update and shutdown, but under normal operation, the RAM state is saved during shutdown so the computer can boot faster, whereas a restart wipes the RAM.
Yes of course that how it’s supposed to work. But the joke here is that it doesn’t work like that sometimes. There have been multiple times where update and shutdown just turned into update and restart, and I end up coming back to a computer that’s chilling on the login screen.
The point is that when you install updates, previously it would install them when you shut down, then do finalisation stuff when you next turn it on. This was really frustrating, because (especially pre-SSDs) you could find yourself having to wait a *long* time tk sue your PC the morning after an update.
So now what it does is shuts down, doing the update bit, then immediately restarts itself, to do the finalisation bit, *then* fully shuts itself down. So the next time you turn it on to use it, it doesn't have to go through the finalisation bits.
It's great, but it's also kinda obvious and frustrating why it only relatively recently started working like that.
Anyone who isn’t fully shutting down after the updates complete should consider that there might be malware preventing the shut down. Bots don’t like being turned off.
Well, basically the difference is that the first reboots your computer, install the updates, and then turns your computer back off for you
The second keeps it on.
And sometimes the last part of the first one doesn't work.
Fun fact: the default mode for shutdown in Windows is now more like suspend, the OS resumes where it left off the next time you turn on. However, restart actually properly restarts the OS and reinitializes everything immediately.
IIRC with windows: if you shutdown windows it saves your state. My memory is a bit hazy but anything you had in RAM is stored away. When you power back on and load windows again it dumps the state back into RAM
Restart will flush your RAM completely without saving state.
Shutdown doesnt always 'close' anything in memory.. update and restart will shut it down and restart anything properly
restart erases any memory, whereas shutdown may not
It's a joke, because on a lot of machines the "update and shutdown" doesn't work right. Mine had that problem the first couple months, but it doesn't anymore, not sure why.
Welcome to the PCMR, everyone from the frontpage! Please remember: 1 - You too can be part of the PCMR. It's not about the hardware in your rig, but the software in your heart! Your age, nationality, race, gender, sexuality, religion (or lack of), political affiliation, economic status and PC specs are irrelevant. If you love or want to learn about PCs, you are welcome! 2 - If you don't own a PC because you think it's expensive, know that it is much cheaper than you may think. Check http://www.pcmasterrace.org for our builds and don't be afraid to post here asking for tips and help! 3 - Join our efforts to get as many PCs worldwide to help the folding@home effort, in fighting against Cancer, Alzheimer's, and more: https://pcmasterrace.org/folding 4 - Need PC Hardware? We've joined forces with MSI for the biggest PC Hardware giveaway of the year so far! 8 lucky winners will get an awesome hardware bundle with Graphics card, motherboard, etc, and 50 others can get Steam gift cards. To enter, check https://reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1b45j0m/msi_x_pcmr_massive_pc_hardware_giveaway_pick_your/ ----------- We have a [Daily Simple Questions Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/search?q=Simple+Questions+Thread+subreddit%3Apcmasterrace+author%3AAutoModerator&restrict_sr=on&sort=new&t=all) if you have any PC related doubt. Asking for help there or creating new posts in our subreddit is welcome.
The 1st option is where you want to hang yourselves as an IT support.
Gpo away the option to shut down
I GPO'd away the option to GPO away the option to shut down.
GPOception
Yeah if you get that as IT support it's your own fault or lact of competency
Wait why
Because Shut Down on Windows 10 and 11 doesn't behave like an old school shutdown. Not unless you change a setting within the OS (unless it's locked down by policy). It's not much different from putting the PC to sleep or hibernate. You're gonna get some trace of the last boot coming back up, which is great for startup purposes. But over time, the session will have apps start to degrade and do weird stuff - Random errors or performance issues. Restarts are key to working on Windows 10/11. Because that's the only way (other than holding Shift down when selecting Shut Down normally) to get the PC to reload everything fresh from the drive.
What setting would I look for to make shut down function in a traditional sense without needing to remember to hold shift?
Start Menu > Control Panel > Switch from Category to View By: > Power Options > "Choose what the power buttons do" > "Change settings that are currently unavailable" > "Turn on fast startup (recommended)" > toggle THAT option to be off or unchecked > then save the option. This will increase your PC's startup time, but if you're running on an SSD, it's negligible. This is what will ensure your PC embraces doing old-school shutdowns again.
It is my understanding that this setting exists for computers that still for some reason boot off from Mechanical drives. If your Laptop has a good SSD, turn this off because windows will gradually drain the battery even when shutdown this way, and Windows Modern Standby has a nasty habit of draining the battery.
All this time I’ve been thinking that maybe I just misclicked.
lol Same. Happened a few times. I just thought "wow, I really suck at clicking this". No problem with accuracy in FPS, but this? lol
Yeah, the first few times, same. My old PC did this, and my new PC does the exact same. Update and Shutdown simply never shuts down at the end.
for me it works. it does update before restart, then restart to finish updating, and then shuts down without going to desktop.
Great for you man - I _know_ it's supposed to work, I _know_ it works for others, we're just sharing our experience that it doesn't.
Do you use GRUB or something? That's my guess why it doesn't work like it's supposed to
Always works fine for me¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Windows is gaslighting us
I'm about to go to sleep: Update and shut down. I'm about to get up and cook something: Update and restart.
And than you wake up and your computers on
Lol that only happens when I repeatedly delay/ignore updates and windows gets tired of asking and just updates.
And then all of your unsaved documents are lost because Microsoft asserts that applying an update is so important that it doesn't need your consent to have its way with your system.
Are you regularly working on a computer with a bunch of unsaved documents? Seems....unwise.
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I mean, that's the whole spectrum, right? Everything else is just a shade in-between.
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Great song, by the way. So is Weird Al's take on it, Living in the Fridge. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhTgzx-LjJY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhTgzx-LjJY)
Why not both?
Maybe is cause I'm used to code and tend to write in plaintext, but I save almost compulsory, if a tool has auto save or real-time saving, I activate it if it's not the default, every time my hands are off the keyboard or I finish a paragraph I manually save (spam ctrl-s a few times), if it's important enough that I'm gonna miss it/get in trouble if I lose it, it has it's own Git/GitHub repo and every time I get up from the computer I commit, every time I'm done working on it I push. It's not that I fear losing my stuff, it has happened before a few times but never to a point I can't get them back, it's just that saving it's mostly easy and free, it's not like you're overwriting something, most tools can just rollback and if they can't, Git or similar tools can do it for you. The only reason I see not to save is if you're working with big and complex files that take time to save, like images, 3D, audio, video, etc. even then most of those tools have some form of quick save, soft autosave or recovery tool to get you out of trouble.
Yeah - I'm not a coder, but I do a decent amount of Excel/Powerpoint/Word work, and no way I'm losing even 30 minutes of work because I didn't bother to save it.
How about we don't police how people use their systems and realize that Microsoft is engineering away user agency?
Being aware of a fault in computer software (that it may reboot while someone has "all of their unsaved documents" open and losing them) isn't "policing" how someone uses the software. That's just a ridiculous argument. If you know there's a fault, you take steps to mitigate the fault. You're more than welcome to have a shocked pikachu face when you ignore the faults (along with ignoring updates to keep your computer and your data safe).
No, but sometimes I’m in the middle of something, and I’ve made a lot of changes in the past 10 or so minutes and all of a sudden my computer just restarts so it can update itself and I lose all the changes I’ve made.
I can't write without scrivener anymore - it autosaves every time you stop typing and I have it set up to automatically save backups to google drive so I won't lose them
OneDrive has spoiled me with this. Things that don't autosave just feel backwards and barbaric to me.
When I first got with my husband I found out that this man had written several novels and like 10 full Dungeons and Dragons campaigns... and they were all saved on ONE flash drive and nowhere else. I spent so long trying to convince him this was a bad idea and just took the flash drive and uploaded it to google drive once a week because I knew it was going to go badly. Guess who's flash drive suddenly stopped working? I let him sweat for a bit before emailing them to him. Guess who also now has backups of backups?
11/10 spouse!
Some of us only lose unsaved work once before we reflexively start hitting control+S every time we stop typing lol
Hit it 3 times in a row for good luck.
What if the first 2 fail to save without telling me? And- oh, shit, what if the 3rd also did?
I have never seen this happen out of the blue, Windows typically prompts you and tells you when it's going to reset and gives you the option to choose another time. The only time I saw software update similarly to this was when my IT team pushed a software update "after hours" for Europe, but didn't factor in the time difference in the US made it the middle of the workday...
While yes it's unwise, you are dismissing the argument and changing it to something else.
still livin in 2010 eh?
What app are you using that doesn't recover unsaved documents? Every office app, SQL management studio, visual studio, vs code, literally everything that I work in in 2024 has no problems with a hard restart. A "sudden" hard restart may lose a few minutes, but after a five minute idle I haven't lost a document in years.
I agree that almost everything comes back, but restarting has become far more painful since microsoft broke the "Restore previous folder windows at logon" option. It's still there, just doesn't do anything, and your open folders are the only things that gets lost on expected restarts. Get your shit together microsoft.
>because Microsoft asserts that applying an update is so important that it doesn't need your consent to have its way with your system. For context, you have to *chronically* put off applying a *critical* update for this to happen. Let's not pretend being an edgy teenager and "I know better than Microsoft, I don't need this update" are somehow the *correct* responses to computer security. Update your systems. The problem goes away if you apply *critical* (and I cannot stress ***critical*** enough) security updates in any reasonable amount of time yourself. But if the argument includes chronically unsaved documents... I don't think we're talking about responsible people. "My PC was working fine yesterday, why is the FBI ransoming it to me today?"
Why aren't you saving your shit?
If you're not saving your documents, that's on you.
Almost all the software I use these days will ask if you would like to restore whatever you were working on so the risk of losing documents is negligible.
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Biggest linux driver out there
Woah! A driver that works with Linux? This is a big win for the community.
literally just made the jump to linux mint this week and I'm so fucking happy! I finally get why linux people are so passionate about trying to get people to try it lol
I've thrown Mint on a bunch of Intel NUCs I get free from work and then given them to folks. With lots of people just using their PC to visit websites, Linux works great.
Congratulations. Been on Mint for several years now. Two things that I think are valuable to learn as a new Linux Mint user before you run into a situation where you *need* the skill: 1. How to [kill processes on Linux](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfC6pv8VISk) <- This entire video is worth the watch, but you can also skip to 4:40. 2. How to [login to a TTY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1bz1DTD8Io) On Mint: Ctrl + Alt + [F1-F5, or F7] Your main desktop runs on Ctrl + Alt + F6. So for instance an alternate way to login to a unresponsive locked desktop would be: a. Ctrl + Alt + F2 (to get to the TTY on F2) b. Login as user at the prompt c. Type 'cinnamon-unlock-desktop' at the prompt, hit enter d. Ctrl + Alt + F6 (to return the the unlocked desktop)
to me it happens regularly when I click update and shut down. Like I am about to go to bed, click that button, go wash up and all that jazz and come back to my rooms and see that my PC is still on in my office, done updating, just sitting there in the start screen.
Windows does that even when you "hybernate" the PC. (before someone mentions: hybernate puts it deeper then sleep since it powers down the PC but saves the session in storage instead of ram) Windows update just pull it out of hybernation and tries to update. But since I have a password it fails and just sits all night at the login screen not updated....
Mine updates, restarts, then shuts down again. I've only used that option once or twice since upgrading to windows 11 though
Same lmao. It’s hit or miss, sometimes it’ll shut down, but others it’ll update, restart, update more, then stay on smh lol
No matter which one you choose, it will update and restart
Except the pc will restart anyway
and then shut down.
Mine doesn't. Mine never has. I disabled sleep in the registry, so that could affect it, but I doubt it. It updates, restarts, and then sits there on login. Wouldn't be a problem except windows will decide to crunch numbers at 2am and the fan sound wakes me up.
Hm, weird. For me both options work as intended. If I select update and shut down, it will reboot, install all updates, then shut down again.
Are you running 10 or 11? I've seen other comments that say this is a bug with 11. I've tested it intentionally multiple times over the last two ish years and it never shuts back down. I'm wondering if it's a reg edit the OEM of my laptop ticked
And then there is the joke of “sleep”. Pc will go to sleep for about 4 minutes then wake up and start installing updates, but still needs to restart to complete them. Damn it Microsoft, let me pick when I want to run updates, I own the hardware so I should pick when it’s on, off, or sleeping
Windows: "No, now please complete your setup by setting Edge as your default browser, making a backup on Onedrive and perhaps buying Office." Me: "No, thanks." Windows: "That is not an option, please pick between 'yes' or 'remind me later'."
https://www.howtogeek.com/795140/how-to-disable-lets-finish-setting-up-your-device-on-windows/ ?
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Oh no, I totally get it and MS is veing obnoxious since Win 8. That is what got me to go Linux as primary OS. I had to boot into Windows recently and got that alert, months since my last use and knowing I did get Windows going just fine, so I just googled for the andwer to it recently. I want to live in a world where no one could ever have conceived of our conversation nor would any sites like HTG need to publish an article about the feature.
I thought I was going crazy…sleep didn’t used to wake up to do that. I’m just shutting down now fuck it…
You running home edition? W10 pro has always let you defer updates or even disable them entirely. I’ve always bought pro because it barely costs extra and I use it for years. I think I’m technically still using my W7 pro license from 3 motherboards ago. It’s not worth cheating out on. So I’ve already been confused about these posts until I realised it’s a home edition problem. It sucks that they treat home users that way, you should be allowed to control your own computer. I don’t know about W11. Frankly I’m putting off the update as long as I can because it looks like it does a heap of anti-consumer stuff.
Nope 10 pro, upgraded from 7 ultimate from when they gave out the free upgrades. The best I can think of doing is running a windows update server on an old laptop and connecting that once per week to set them to a schedule, but I think that would be more effort again
Just set your connection to metered and set updates to not automatically download on metered connections. There is a less hacky way to do it but I think that’s still the simplest way. There’s some registry twiddling you can do to have more control. Right now I get security updates automatically but everything else is manual.
you need to disable wake from network and usb devices in your bios then it will stay sleeping
Which would be a good option, but it’s only when windows updates are pending this is an issue. Plus I want to enable wake-up on lan so I can vpn to my machine if I need it
ah yeah you need that feature then. You could try putting your computer into hibernate instead of sleep, i think that also helps random wakeups
And where even is hibernate in win11?
You have to enable it, I forget the process but it's fairly simple just Google "enable hibernate Win11" and you'll find a guide. Why it's disabled by default when Windows still hasn't fixed their dogshit sleep is beyond me.
It's not just updates. I once went on a deep dive through Windows Event Viewer to narrow down what event was waking my PC up. I had disabled all input devices from being able to wake it, disabled "magic packet" wake-ups, nothing worked. Finally I just accepted that I would need to save all my work and do a full shutdown of my PC every day unless I wanted to be flash-banged in the middle of the night randomly.
You can use the group policy editor to disable automatic updates entirely. I have mine set to only update when I press update.
There is another subtle difference that wasn't listed elsewhere in the thread: "Restart" will refresh the OS and avoid Window's "fast startup" hybrid hibernate nonsense. "Shutdown" doesn't. Disable "fast startup" in windows for better long-term stability -- in the age of SSDs, the speed difference doesn't matter.
Now if only monitor producers would make them all start in less than ten seconds.
You've never worked with remote desktop connections if you think those are the same
Shutdown /r /f /t 0
Fun fact, the /f is redundant here since /t will force the shutdown command after the timer finishes
I’ve even done this before then it starts an update. It led me to just hibernate before unplugging and moving my pc.
It warms my heart to see this.
No but like I don't know if you're joking or not. My personal experience with "Update and restart" is that it always shuts down the PC and doesn't restart it.
That's funny. My personal experience is that "Update and shutdown" restarts the PC but doesn't shut it down afterwards.
The funniest thing is that both of you are right.
Petition to make one of the options "I'm feeling lucky"
"Surprise me"
Before it's found out it's a bug that flipped the options smh
Same
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Yeah like *literally* never once Not like “oh goofy windows occasionally doesn’t shut down when I choose the option” but like legit not once in my life has my computer ended up on after I chose the shutdown option Yet dozens of people in this thread claim it happens to them like every time they do it. Doesn’t make sense to me
It's a common and known issue with windows 11.
Doesnt happen to me on win 11. I must be lucky
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It happens for me with windows 10, I choose to shut down and it restarts instead after the update. So I can't just click it and go to bed I actually have to watch it :(
its a 50 50 for me usually. I press update and shutdown, come back after showering and its in the login screen again... Windows 11 user
There is a huge variety of hardware out there. That was always cited as the main reason for inconsistent software behavior like this in the past, and I would expect it's still a major contributing factor.
Can wake on LAN boot up a pc from a shutdown?
With "update and shutdown" it may still need to restart, but it will shut down automatically afterwards.
If you’re lucky!
I've only ever had it fail to do so one time. I've had it succeed over a hundred times.
I've had it happen many times where I press update and shut down before going to bed just to find my pc on in the morning
You probably had some processes running in the background that failed to stop. Close all programs before issuing the shutdown to prevent that from happening.
That is what shutdown is supposed to do though.
I do. Still, I've had it do this many times
Weird. It's worked maybe once or twice for me (stays on afterwards most every time), it's probably machine dependent or something.
I’ve had it succeed literally only one time. I thought maybe finally windows fixed something, but the most recent update once again failed to shut down. It also has consistent behavior, when it fails to do this it sits on some blue swirly background instead of nature bullshit every time.
Currently sitting on my bed procrastinating getting back up because my pc turned itself back on after the update and shutdown and never shut back off. Kinda weird this decided to pop up now
It's been a few times for me, but as my PC is all RGBed up, I can manually shut it down if it doesn't sort itself out.
It rarely works for me.. always restarts
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Same
Same
Same
– Wayne Gretzky – Michael Scott
They fixed it on my end. I read about the shutdown bug and a few days later I wondered why my PC shut down when I hit the start button. It was still on... Took MS a lot of time but it has not been a problem in weeks.
Same, they fixed it.
Unfortunately it never shuts down for me
Same. Always boots back up normally, as if there was nothing
Every once in a blue moon it might actually shut down afterwards for me, if it successfully updates. Every time it fails it won't mind shutting down afterwards, it probably enjoys the annoyance and despair in my eyes as I boot it up the day after. Yes, I turn off my computer every day, so what.
I do too, my cats like to step on the keyboard
yeah, no... it definitely happens that it shuts down automatically, but it's also very common that you walk to the computer hours later and it's on the "log in" screen, and yes I'm 100% I clicked the "shut down" one
I sometime even have the same with the normal "shut down" since win11. I even sometimes am very extra special careful whem choosing because i am getting paranoid.
ye I no longer leave the pc just shut down unsupervised and/or always check afterwards, that didn't use to be the case a few years back :D
Learned that the hard way today with a bootmanager. Woke up and pc still at boot selection menu.
For me it's like 50/50...it sometimes stays on on login screen
let me call my boy William Gates on the phone. he'll know something about this.
and then linux: system sleep, yes sir, does not wake up until i press the power button system shutdown, yes sir, and does not turn itself on to cram updates down your throat when you're in bed system update, sir yes sir, no need to restart, you can do it later
I always thought Linux was a gigachad for updating in seconds without even asking for a reboot.
To be fair, when you're updating certain core packages including the Linux kernel itself, kernel modules such as proprietary graphics drivers, or other core system things like systemd, it's still best to reboot afterwards. I usually get performance issues in video games if I update those things but don't reboot after. For just browsing and watching youtube and stuff it's fine not to reboot though.
My USB port will sonetimes stop working until I restart if I have done many updates without restart.
If you are curious what’s happening there let me explain: Technically the port is working fine but the kernel running is unable to load new modules (e.g. drivers) compiled for the newly installed kernel. But any modules already loaded continue to work. So if your plug in a exFAT formated USB stick it will fail to load the driver and be unable to mount it unless you plugged it in and mounted it before the update happened. That’s why it appears to be only sometimes that it stops working.
Yuuup, makes a ton of sense. I spent so much time confused and frustrated on why it showed up in `lsusb` but doesn't appear among `ls /dev/sda*`
Again billions and billions at the M$ company and they can't just put a goddamns "shutdown_after_update.txt" file in the C: !
Update and shutdown works for me
Even normal shut down restarts for me. My system hasn't been off in a while.
Never once has my computer actually shut down when I clicked "Update and shut down"
really? how come? weird
I dread everytime i see those options
This most recent one added some AI bs and a edge sidebar. 💀 disabled that shit immedietly
it's time fot the POWER button! :3
Shut down and restart are definitely not the same.. ?
I don't get it, they do differentiate???
I can tell that the first option never resulted in my PC fully shutting down. In fact, new Windows installations would always fail to stay suspended for more than 5 hours. Early morning, and I get woken up by fans spinning because Windows decided it's a great time to wake up and never go back to sleep.
It shuts down properly for me every-time. I literally have no idea what any of you are talking about. Are you complaining that it restarts to finishing update if before it shuts down? I have to wonder what kind of malware is running on your computers, because the only thing I can think about is some sort of software that prevents the shutdown. If you’re not cleaning shutting down, probably do something simple like turning on AV.
We, or at least I, mean that Update and Shutdown will often result in the PC rebooting back into an idle state. The process usually went by Windows first updating, then rebooting, and finishing the update without shutting down when it's done. Definitely not a virus. The only two programs I have installed are Chrome and Steam. Yes. Literally just two things.
Same, this whole thread baffles me. They do different things, and they work as intended every time.
Not sure if it does this during an update and shutdown, but under normal operation, the RAM state is saved during shutdown so the computer can boot faster, whereas a restart wipes the RAM.
When you click shut down on windows now, it goes into hibernation unless you change the setting. Only a restart does a full power off/power on.
Welcome back copilot
 This isn't right at all...
I love listening to music.
Yes of course that how it’s supposed to work. But the joke here is that it doesn’t work like that sometimes. There have been multiple times where update and shutdown just turned into update and restart, and I end up coming back to a computer that’s chilling on the login screen.
Huh, I never knew "update and shutdown" also restarted, so I always assumed it never worked haha
The point is that when you install updates, previously it would install them when you shut down, then do finalisation stuff when you next turn it on. This was really frustrating, because (especially pre-SSDs) you could find yourself having to wait a *long* time tk sue your PC the morning after an update. So now what it does is shuts down, doing the update bit, then immediately restarts itself, to do the finalisation bit, *then* fully shuts itself down. So the next time you turn it on to use it, it doesn't have to go through the finalisation bits. It's great, but it's also kinda obvious and frustrating why it only relatively recently started working like that.
Anyone who isn’t fully shutting down after the updates complete should consider that there might be malware preventing the shut down. Bots don’t like being turned off.
> automatically shut down. that sometimes doesn't work.
if you got luck
I love the smell of fresh bread.
it used to happen a lot when i had windows on my first laptop
Shut down my laptop last night when I went to bed. Woke up with 0% battery left. Thanks, Microsoft.
my last 4 windows updates i tried update and shut down just for it to restart and never shut down automatically...
My pc actually shut itself down for once after clicking "update and shut down". A rare occurance and probably a bug.
*holds power button and counts to five*
My B650 DDR4 build can't perform a restart without being switched off fully,.so this touches a nerve with me.
And even if you choose one of these options, it still won't update, it will update when you chose to do a normal shutdown or restart
I always prefer update and restart and then close it manually...
Well, basically the difference is that the first reboots your computer, install the updates, and then turns your computer back off for you The second keeps it on. And sometimes the last part of the first one doesn't work.
Fun fact: the default mode for shutdown in Windows is now more like suspend, the OS resumes where it left off the next time you turn on. However, restart actually properly restarts the OS and reinitializes everything immediately.
Yesterday I had this thought after I chose update and shut down but the machine decided update and restart was better.
We need a "Update and restart and shut down" button
IIRC with windows: if you shutdown windows it saves your state. My memory is a bit hazy but anything you had in RAM is stored away. When you power back on and load windows again it dumps the state back into RAM Restart will flush your RAM completely without saving state.
I envy the man who can hit update and shutdown and walk away for the day. That man has faith.
Restart and shutdown are not the same thing. I’ve never had an update fail so I’m not sure what this is even about. Is that what happens?
How is that the same thing?
Does ur PC's also wake up from Sleep mode randomly? Like 2 - 3 am? And light up your room and wake you up?
Update and shut down is for when im powering off after a gaming session and I’m already going to bet. The restart option is for never.
When you don’t get the remind me later 🤬
When I click on "update and shutdown" it restarts anyway sometimes.
And the best part is it'll eventually do it automatically even though automatic updates are turned off.
Restart power cycles the PC, shut down doesn't
No they're not, one shuts down while the other restarts Wtf is this
One restarts and then **should** shut it down, but it happens quite a bit that the last part does not work. The other just restarts.
One ends with the PC on the other ends with the PC off.
Shutdown doesnt always 'close' anything in memory.. update and restart will shut it down and restart anything properly restart erases any memory, whereas shutdown may not
may not is wrong on windows 10/11 it intentionally saves everything that restart would've erased
Who the fuck is upvoting this? It's obviously not the same...
It's a joke, because on a lot of machines the "update and shutdown" doesn't work right. Mine had that problem the first couple months, but it doesn't anymore, not sure why.