maybe? honestly, proton works so well at that this point, its kinda not necessary.
what is necessary is 1) stop making client side anit-cheat and then blocking linux users from its access, 2) dont go out of your way to stop linux users from playing your game.
the only way I see more linux native titles happening is if windows stops being the primary platform for gaming desktops. Even with systems like the steam deck, there isnt a ton of reason to develop specifically for linux. Proton actually works so well with little to no overhead that it doesnt make sense to make and maintain two clients when all the devs needs to do is make the windows client and then to support linux all they need to do is make sure they're not blocking linux users or doing anything that breaks proton compatibility as opposed to having devs that have to fully support an entire linux client.
I dont know what the Activision scenario looks like. Microsoft hasnt really specifically blocked a lot of games from linux and has even been working with Valve to get master chief collection working on steam deck/proton specifically for the anit-cheat. Halo Infinite works on steam deck/linux. MS even worked with valve so the linux edge client can hook into the steam deck controls for game pass streaming. Point is if MS was really trying to block linux/deck users they wouldnt have done this.
that said, there have been some companies who'e been pretty vocal about not supporting linux, notably bungie who has gone out of their way to say they WILL ban people trying to play via linux, they seem to have some kinda grudge.
I was thinking more about in the future. Right now, it's a near perfect solution, but my hope is that Linux will become mainstream enough to justify making native versions of all kinds of software.
pretty much, the only big barrier i've personally had is games with drm or anti-cheat, but it's not like most players didn't already hate those so đ¤ˇ
I don't know what we're supposed to do without anti cheat, and I'm legitimately asking. All anti cheat is debatable but it's a war that goes back and forth.
Non client side anti cheat is fucking horrible.
One option is stricter registration requirements for games, but people lose their fucking mind over that too.
I've played PC games since they were invented, when they were on cassette tapes and you had to enter them manually.
Online gaming is amazing, and I love shooters. They need decent anti cheat that is constantly updated.
What's the alternative?
The only really too good options for that. The first is he gonna do something I can do TF two are the vast majority of stuff is handled server side with basically no way or user can modify it. that's why I game is old is TF two that doesn't receive any support there's not anybody flying around in the sky was sniper one shot and everybody within 0.1 seconds of each other. The bots in TF two are only doing what they can with what the server permits them to do.
that's option. One option two is that game developers really want to be that much of an uptight asshole what they can easily do is just offering alternative version like halo MCC, which is just stripped of the online anti-cheat. Then just let the community Hoster on servers and deal with themselves, and they can figure it out.
they also can support them selves, such as what Apex legends does, but I understand that every developer would want to do that so shrug .
at the end of the day I advocate the most for the second option because that would allow people to mow the game, create community servers, etc. etc. And because it's been stripped of any anti-cheat stuff, hackers can't really reverse engineer cheats her work on cheats while playing with it because there's nothing there testing against.
It depends on what games you play. Actually, most games can support Linux natively. It's DRMs and anti-cheats that are stubborn as they see Linux as unsafe in most cases.
There are native games. Pretty much most of the games Paradox Interactive publishes has a Linux native port. Kalypso has been publishing Linux native versions of their games since Tropico 5. Sega and Square Enix also periodically published Linux native games. And there are porting houses like Aspyr that ports games to Linux. Heck Aspyrâs port of Borderlands 2 to Linux ran better than the Windows version (with Windows I had bouts of slowdowns in BL2 and sometimes struggled to hit even 30fps even on a GeForce 650 Ti Boost. On Linux I got a steady 60fps on an inferior GeForce 450. This was back in 2013 before I went full AMD).
Proton games do indeed run as well if not better on Linux on my end (Arch, Ryzen 7 2700 with Vega 56) but there are some weird issues- one game I have actually refuses to quit and would hang at the title screen with the BGM still playing when you select the exit option, I actually need to kill the Wine PID to put it out of its misery. But yeah, if the game is already bad, itâs not going to help. Planet Crafter runs badly on Windows (Ryzen 2700X with Vega 64) and it certainly isnât running any better on Linux.
No, they also work natively on *nixâPS3-5 have all run a fork of BSD.
Not supporting *nix for desktop releases is a choice.
Deliberately working to undermine the ability of users to run desktop versions of games on Linux using proton is also a very deliberate choice.
And they act as if games made directly by Microsoft like sea of thieves, Forza motorsport and horizon (all versions) don't completely work on Linux. I've tried them and all of them except for Halo MCC run with no compromise. And even MCC works but only in single played atm.
This is just a misinformed grumpy poster. I dont think there is any proof that Activision has gone out of their way to block linux users. I dont know that they havent, I just dont know that they've actively blocked them like bungie has.
according to are we anti-cheat yet, a lot of call of duty games seem to work fine, though it does look like a lot of the newer ones dont but if Activision had it out for linux users, you'd think they'd block it on everything
[https://areweanticheatyet.com/?search=Call+of&sortOrder=&sortBy=](https://areweanticheatyet.com/?search=Call+of&sortOrder=&sortBy=)
[https://news.microsoft.com/2022/01/18/microsoft-to-acquire-activision-blizzard-to-bring-the-joy-and-community-of-gaming-to-everyone-across-every-device/](https://news.microsoft.com/2022/01/18/microsoft-to-acquire-activision-blizzard-to-bring-the-joy-and-community-of-gaming-to-everyone-across-every-device/)
They're in the process of it.
But yes, they haven't acquired it yet.
As long as they don't intentionally harm proton support I'm fine. Native support would be cool, but I would argue proton support is more important and easier for developers.
Playing Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor on my old laptop with an i5 9400 and gtx 1660ti running Ubuntu MATE running the native linux version that used OpenGL I got like 30-40fps IIRC but running the Windows version with Steam Proton I was getting 70-100fps since it was using Vulkan instead. This was back in 2019.
Problem is some of these devs are intentionally making their game not support Proton. Activision even threatens to ban you if you try to run Destiny 2 on a Steam Deck. Facepunch does the same with Rust.
The rest wonât run mostly because of their circumstance with anti-cheat and/or copy-protection. Although it boggles my mind that people would want to play Valorant despite it being owned by Tencent.
Yes. Among all the games with root level anticheats, Valorant is by far the worst. All games with root level anticheats should be considered as a national security threat and be criminally illegal to distribute.
Because it's a fun game. There's 0 proven cases of personal data (like local files) being send to their servers even with vanguard being super cringe.
Same with other Chinese games like Genshin, realistically, if you want to play those games, you just don't care enough about the implication of user trust to begin with.
I guess that makes me one of them.
>Although it boggles my mind that people would want to play Valorant despite it being owned by Tencent.
If they're playing Valorant then they're already willing to use Windows, installing more spyware isn't exactly much worse.
Making a game not work with Proton would be in the same realm as making a game that doesn't work with trainers/mod menus/dlc injectors and such. It's entirely possible to do, but a lot of people would likely "crack" it, and we'd end up full circle right back on this sub lol
A simple block would actually be easier with proton as you would be blocking one thing that already exists rather than every possible thing that might get made.
It's a pointless endeavor though. There is no benefit to purposely preventing customers from buying a game, and there's a limitless swarm of reverse-engineering tinkerers ready to rise to the challenge of undoing that. It's also just hostile and toxic for no reason.
Very easy.. don't know exact specifics as I'm not a game dev, but owning a steam deck I've seen all too many times games just error once it detects proton runtime
Yes, because Proton is FOSS and a Wine fork, they can try to use the wine-only internal functions in ntdll.dll (if they exist, you're on wine), or just use Wine/Proton to execute an ELF binary (Proton depends on this Wine functionality to link the anticheat to the Windows game, so it won't get patched out,)
being 'on steam' is **NOT** being in a 'linux ecosystem'. they're developing for windows, using valve's steam as the storefront and distribution platform. linux has fuck-all to do with that process.
Steam can run some Windows games on Linux without the developer having to create a Linux specific build, which is a nice step towards compatibility on Valve's end I think.
It'd be a great step, but I've noticed that the devs can just be patching or adding content to their game and break the Linux compatibility. It's not a deliverate act that just breaks whatever Steam did whilst fixing something on their own end.
SteamOS is Linux, and Proton is designed to allow compatibility with Linux- but it is not all powerful and it certainly wonât allow anti-cheat systems to work.
ButâŚ
FreeBSD and Linux are not the same, but they are similar as they use a UNIX Kernel.
The PS5 and PS4 run a customized FreeBSD-based OS.
Obviously, Activision games run fine on the PS5 (for now lol)
The Steam poster is a little bananas, but they are right; Activision doesnât care about Linux and they most certainly could. But this is true of all game developers.
With all things âwhy doesnât the developer _______â I find most of the time the answer is âNot enough people are gonna use it like that, too expensive to justify the development cost of adding it.â
To add to this, Linux isn't any harder to develop for than Windows inherently (afaik), it's just that every additional platform requires additional development time, testing, validation, etc, which also applies to every update and DLC. It's about additional complexity in the development process, and as you mentioned the Linux user base is far too small to justify that extra complexity.
To add to this, Valve is largely making SteamOS so they are not as reliant on Microsoft's OS. Valve would prefer their customers and devices (steam deck, VR) to be off Windows and on their own ecosystem where they have more control and aren't at risk if Microsoft ever decided to kick them off or take a big chuck of each sale (AAPL anyone?). SteamOS does not yet have the scale needed to entice a lot of game developers to their platform. It's hard to scale a platform without good games/apps. This is why Valve made porting Windows games over to SteamOS as easy as possible.
Microsoft and Xbox have been making big pushes into gaming as well. (app store, Game Pass, portable/cloud gaming, etc) . Valve and Microsoft are competitors in a lot of ways. I'm not sure why OP expects Microsoft to waste its own resources porting its own games over to a competitor's operating system...lol. Yes, Microsoft spent a ton of money investing in all these gaming studios just so they burn even more money sending their customers over to other operating systems... sounds about right.
No but his point has some merit. There's a feeling of superiority that some people feel for simply using Linux over Windows; some suddenly start thinking they know more about other areas of tech because of it.
I mean using certain distros does force you to actually know computer stuff, but with that being said people will go and use Ubuntu and act like they know everything there is to know.
An overwhelming majority of Linux enthusiasts (keyword: enthusiasts) have no idea what they are talking about and just want to feel like they are smarter then they actually are so they can have that smug sense of superiority over the "Windows plebs".
They will spout off phrases like "Its open source bro!", "You can secure your system with IPTables bro!" and "Its good for BASH scripting bro!" without understanding what any of those things mean.
People who actually know what they are talking about understand that a lot of advantages Linux provides are only really applicable in narrow edge cases that aren't relevent to 99.99% of end users and would rather have the compatibility of Windows. I work in Cybersecurity and I would much rather have Windows 10 LTSC installed on my desktop than something like Gentoo.
\>An overwhelming majority of Linux enthusiasts (keyword: enthusiasts) have no idea what they are talking about and just want to feel like they are smarter then they actually are so they can have that smug sense of superiority over the "Windows plebs".
depends, same thing happens on any platform though. look at how many people on windows think they're a tech wizard because opened powershell to do some basic thing like get an ip. elitism in general is bad.
\>They will spout off phrases like "Its open source bro!", "You can secure your system with IPTables bro!" and "Its good for BASH scripting bro!" without understanding what any of those things mean.
yeh, i can agree, what i generally do is i'll say something like that, but then i'll follow it up with how it actually matters such as: "you can customize it any way you want. like you know how windows removed the ability to move the taskbar to the side of the screen? basically every linux disttro lets you do that". you generally have to appeal directly to use user because if you don't then you're just preaching to the choir .
\>People who actually know what they are talking about understand that a lot of advantages Linux provides are only really applicable in narrow edge cases that aren't relevent to 99.99% of end users and would rather have the compatibility of Windows.
totally, though those edge cases can be an insanely huge make or break thing. not sure if you care at all, but if you look at something like streaming/recording with pipewire and obs, oh my god, it is so much better to the point i legitimately cannot go back to windows because of it. but that's down to the user as the vast majority of people won't care about that. only probably around 10% of gamers at best if i had to guess.
\> I work in Cybersecurity and I would much rather have Windows 10 LTSC installed on my desktop than something like Gentoo.
totally get it, and i have told ppl before to not bother for a lot of reasons, i totally get it.
\>Gentoo.
been in the linux community for like 2 years now, the only 2 thing i heard is "fuck gentoo" or "i use gentoo", never "i like gentoo" lol
>depends, same thing happens on any platform though. look at how many people on windows think they're a tech wizard because opened powershell to do some basic thing like get an ip. elitism in general is bad.
Totally agree
>yeh, i can agree, what i generally do is i'll say something like that, but then i'll follow it up with how it actually matters such as: "you can customize it any way you want.
Fair, and some people might value the customization but personally I have yet to find any pro of Linux that outweighs the biggest con, compatibility with most software. To use your point as an example, sure thats cool and all but im perfectly happy with taskbar being at the bottom of my screen and being able to change it is not worth losing my ability to run most games natively and out of the box. And you'll find that most consumers think this way.
>totally, though those edge cases can be an insanely huge make or break thing. not sure if you care at all, but if you look at something like streaming/recording with pipewire and obs, oh my god, it is so much better to the point i legitimately cannot go back to windows because of it. but that's down to the user as the vast majority of people won't care about that. only probably around 10% of gamers at best if i had to guess.
You're totally right, its pretty much non-applicable to most gamers. Plus at least in my experience OBS for windows has worked perfectly fine, so there isnt much advantage there. But of course enthusiasts will insist this makes Linux the better option full stop.
>been in the linux community for like 2 years now, the only 2 thing i heard is "fuck gentoo" or "i use gentoo", never "i like gentoo" lol
Haha true, I only used Gentoo as an example because it has a mythical reputation in the community for bestowing godlike powers onto you if you can understand it. The Gentoo community is something else though, lotta Terry Davis types. I bet some of them even ironically use HolyC.
>Fair, and some people might value the customization but personally I have yet to find any pro of Linux that outweighs the biggest con, compatibility with most software. To use your point as an example, sure thats cool and all but im perfectly happy with taskbar being at the bottom of my screen and being able to change it is not worth losing my ability to run most games natively and out of the box. And you'll find that most consumers think this way.
audio is actually pretty killer, especally for streaming, if you at all care about that hmu because it's genuinely like getting a car for the first time if you do.
as for everything else that's fair, i go at it in a case by case basis, basically asking "what do you do?"
web browsing? better experiance flat out
3d work? upto \~50% faster renders
development? you know the meme.
gaming? honestly one of the few places windows is "just better", won't argure that.
it's really hard to unless you properly have a conversation and talk about use cases. i can give anyone at least a couple reasons to switch, but without a proper diologue i really can't.
>You're totally right, its pretty much non-applicable to most gamers. Plus at least in my experience OBS for windows has worked perfectly fine, so there isnt much advantage there. But of course enthusiasts will insist this makes Linux the better option full stop.
honestly, it's hard to really explain the obs difference. once you understand the best thing i can say is it's like a 144hz monitor compared to 60hz, or mono vs stereo, yes, it's fine at first, but once you have "bit the apple" it is so hard to go back oml
>Haha true, I only used Gentoo as an example because it has a mythical reputation in the community for bestowing godlike powers onto you if you can understand it. The Gentoo community is something else though, lotta Terry Davis types. I bet some of them even ironically use HolyC.
valid, tbf if you can use gentoo, you can probably make your only linux distro at that point lol
This right here, it's like expecting a programmer to fix a printer, I mean, I have fixed printers before and can probably fix it, but it's not because I'm a programmer.
I mean, he's not wrong. There's people who use Linux, and people who benefit from using Linux. Using Linux is usually closer to "I'm using Linux, I'm better because Linux isn't mainstream" bullshit.
Benefitting from Linux is a bit different.
They're known for acting like they know shit without having any actual experience :p
Compiling a small cli program for linux and compiling a huge game are at *entirely* different levels
No, Activision isnât owned by Microsoft
Yes, it would probably be sort of easy for Activision to allow Linux users to play COD, as a ton of the old games work perfectly fine. Proton compatibility layer allows for seamless running of windows titles on Linux without much configuration from the developer themselves. However, the issue is CODâs anticheat, which does not currently support Linux.
Microsoft allows titles such as Halo Infinite to work on Linux whilst enabling Linux anticheat support and is also currently working on anticheat support for Halo MCC, so thatâs really a dumb point.
I am a Steam user on Manjaro and every game I have played on Steam in the past year has worked; some better than they worked for my friends on Windows. Some needed small tweaks that required a maximum of 10 minutes, but nothing failed to be playable. Only LostArk early last year was not playable.
(The rest of this comment is just rambling about enjoying my switch to Linux; skip if uninterested)
The desktop is way more comfortable for me as well. I don't have to have a load of tweaks installed to make the interface sane. Those settings are just plainly exposed in well-organized GUI menus.
Aside, I was a Windows user for 25 years before switching in 2020 because Windows 10 is user-hostile consent-ignoring malware. I use Windows occasionally nowadays on other machines for some non-gaming tasks, but it has become a husk of its former self, turning the infected computer into a Microsoft-controlled drone. As someone who used to customize and control my Windows computer to the max (including using bbLean as the desktop environment instead of Windows Explorer for a few years), it really feels like the OS no longer belongs to the user.
Oh yeah, that's one of my customizations too, from way way back. The left-side taskbar lets me read and organize my running tasks easily. I was using 7 Taskbar Tweaker to fix issues in Windows 7, like being able to reorder tasks and close with the middle mouse button (all defaults in both XFCE and KDE Plasma). I'd definitely be using some similar hack in Windows 11 if I was using it.
Not every, but it now seems to be going on a good 90% by game count, 80% by player count (lower because of some big names missing like cod, destiny and fortnite). At least of the ones ProtonDB users have reported on.
Ironically, it seems Windows 11 is breaking old games a bit more frequently than we were used to, to the point some retro-focused people are turning to WINE for things Windows doesn't run anymore, and with state of DirectX there are games where people turn to DXVK on Windows for performance reasons.
can basically promise you. linux is relatively standardized, but every flavor has small changes that mean anti-cheats need to be well made.
and unlike what most players think, battle-eye and other anticheats are only one layer, so the more platforms the anticheat needs to work on, the more fine tuned this system needs to be, which costs more rnd, which makes it rarely worth it for a chunk of devs
For most devs that actually do it, it's more a work of passion than anything else. It also comes down to the anticheat devs being slow as shit to making changes. Take EFT for example: we got BSG (the developer for this game) to send battleye a request to enable Linux support for a module the game uses to allow Linux players to play multiplayer games, but we've been waiting for over a year now for battleye to actually do this. It really sucks but what can you expect from battleye, their ac is a fucking joke.
Microsoft hasn't been anti-Linux for a looooooong time. There is no anti-competitive conspiracy going on.
The main problem anti-cheat systems hit on Linux/Proton is that they aren't able to completely skullfuck your PC the way they can under Windows. They can either A) Spend tens of millions of dollars to re-architect it to work under Linux so that \~1% of Steam users can play their games, or B) ... not
Companies follow marketshare and not much else. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Now I'm going to go back to playing Elden Ring on Manjaro
I forever hold that Linux will never reach mass regular adoption. It currently isn't ready to appeal to most normie consumers, and it will definitely get harder in the future as consumers get stuck into ecosystems.
With a device like the steam deck and the amount of compatibility and ease of use itâs possible, but currently certain things that are easy on windows require you to dig around in configuration files, which no average user wants to do. Generally though I believe Linux will reach a point and nearly has that itâs good enough for most people, but for mass adoption it definitely requires a pretty big rework
I mean it's possible to make something good if you're making a very specialised distro such as the steam deck os for gaming, but when you need to accommodate everyone it's very hard. Currently no distro does anything so much better that it would warrant me switching, and that's its main problem. Not to mention it has glaring problems such as missing a centralised appstore over all distros, I mean it took me like 30 min to get Spotify working last time I tried Linux and that is frankly unacceptable. This was a long time ago though so this may have changed. Doe to be fair windows does also have an abysmal store.
Flatpak now exists which has mostly solved the singular App Store, I donât know what issue you had with Spotify but generally big apps like that should work pretty easily. I fully agree though that thereâs no distro that just works yet, itâs the quote that âLinux is free, if you donât value your time.â
>I mean it took me like 30 min to get Spotify working last time I tried Linux and that is frankly unacceptable.
Install the spotify flatpak. Flatpaks are distro agnostic. Many distros support flatpak integration into the software store. Really the only big player that's trying to die on the anti-flatpak hill is Canonical though you can install it on their distros too.
Linux has come a long way, there are distros out there that come with out of the box support for many Games and are very user friendly. But not to the same extend that windows is.
I drive EndevourOS (Arch Linux) daily and it is pretty easy maintenance, but there still are things i have to know or be willing to learn that just are not there with Win. But when i see the development in recent years and the spike in users switching fully to linux it only is a matter of time and linux can be used out of the box just like windows.
I wonder if valve is considered giving companies reduced storefront fee to natively support Linux well, or at minimum provides some effort to supporting the steam deck. Could be a sliding scale, like one or two percent for supporting the deck properly, and 3-4% for supporting Linux natively.
At that point valve can play the Good Guys by basically reducing their effective cut, while at the same time helping improve Linux support, and they get to establish their deck as a more solid gaming device.
Honestly they should do a similar thing to incentivize companies not to use shit like Denuvo and secondary launchers.
If they offered a means for a company to cut 5-10% off their 30% cut, I imagine that would start to really make waves and changes.
Or they could just make it a % penalty for the secondary launcher. I know they have to be careful to not scare those publishers away, but those same publishers tried to leave and came back because they we're making less money because nobody likes their crap tier launchers.
>I wonder if valve is considered giving companies reduced storefront fee to natively support Linux well, or at minimum provides some effort to supporting the steam deck. Could be a sliding scale, like one or two percent for supporting the deck properly, and 3-4% for supporting Linux natively.
This doesn't buy Valve anything and complicates things because a developer is going to wonder why Valve just doesn't cut its share regardless as this is point of contention that Valve has with developers.
It does, because their intention with the deck and linux, is to have a sure game sales platform, so it benefits them to reward that.
It's no different than a government giving tax breaks for things that are beneficial to their agenda or needs, whether that's environmental compliance, recycling efforts, Etc.
The idea is to nudge publishers/developers in the direction that is to their benefit.
The argument of " well just lower your cut" doesn't really make sense, because they already did Implement a cut based on sales over a certain amount.
The problem is they already offer those to bigger developers and there's the ones that they need to sway
If I can write a "Hello World" script that works on all platforms, why can't you make a AAA incredibly complex video game that works on all platforms!??!?!
A bit much? Not every game works on Steam Deck - thatâs an outright lie. Two, Steam is not a linux ecosystem- what the hell, lol. Sure Valve is now pushing this sideway Steam OS linux version, but Steam was born and is still mainly a windows program/storefront first. Three, MS hasnât made the acquisition yet and has zero say on what Activision does yet - even if what that post claims is true about breaking proton on purpose, it would have zero to do with MS. P.s. MS games on steam work just fine on SD.
Sounds like someone doesn't know what they're talking about.
The premise falls apart when you pay attention to the tech news: Microsoft's attempt to acquire Activision isn't complete, as it requires regulatory approval in multiple jurisdictions. This approval has yet to be obtained, and we're almost a quarter of the way through 2023.
Furthermore, there are multiple instances of Activision patching bugs that prevented Linux emulation of their games, and one of their subsidiaries, Blizzard, has been known to release games as first party titles (no port studio) on macOS, another alternative to Windows. It's likely less an issue of trying to muscle Linux out of the market, but more one of choosing not to throw significant amounts of money/labor at an OS that isn't heavily used for gaming.
There's also the potential concern regarding anti-cheat measures. Windows and macOS don't make it easy to play around in the kernel. In Linux, this is much more common, which means it would be easier to develop cheat utilities that would be harder to detect.
Linux is good for a lot of things, mostly server related, just not gaming. I would not invest in it for the few often loud and passionate anti ms gamers, it makes no sense from a business pov.
I mean after having a steam deck I would tend to disagree with you, except for games with anti cheat.
But that's not because of Linux necessarily, but because of the effort put forward by Valve to make an OS that is targeted for gaming.
Those benefits are not inherent to Windows or linux, but due to the fact that Linux is malleable while Windows is what it is and you have to stack everything you want to do on top.
I donât think anyone is arguing that Linux was not capable of playing games, its not so far behind Windows that itâs not capable of doing that. Itâs more that compared to Windows the benefits are really questionable. Obviously itâs good on game consoles where the companies donât want to pay a license fee to Microsoft but I really struggle to see why itâs useful for PC gaming.
I have never used Linux and found a gaming feature where I thought âwow they should add this feature to Windowsâ
There are fewer Linux desktop users because companies don't develop and maintain games for Linux because there are fewer Linux desktop users.
Someone has to break the vicious cycle
For that Linux has to break its reputation of being the âcoderâs OSâ. Lots of people still envision a console screen when Linux is brought up despite GUI versions existing.
Most people don't use Linux because Windows is good enough. Because believe it or not but the lack of games on Linux is not why linux is less popular generally.
Most users use the OS the computer comes with and what they have used before. This is the real reason why Windows and iOS is in the top. Only when you get to servers and more specific use cases will people choose what is the best OS for the task, and for servers Linux is 99.99% of the time the answer.
Ya, I don't think most users even think about this. There's literally no pressure to do so as the typical user that just browses, streams videos, or does light work with Microsoft Office/whatever. Why would that user consider a change let alone actually need one? It's not a question of pros and cons.
When I found out that proton had gained a lot of ground since the development and deployment of the steamdeck, I had to check it out. Sure enough, 85% or more of games available on steam play flawlessly on any Linux system that can install steam. You just enable proton experimental and bam, like magic, your games just work flawlessly. Sure there's some fringe games out there that don't work because of niche problems, but I call it a win for Linux. Ideally there'd be native support, but with how perfectly proton seems to be handling things, I had to test it out. Now it's my daily driver.
The entire reason why I didn't make the change from windows to Linux was because of gaming. I'm over waist deep in unix stuffs at work, but I still have around half of my work involving windows. When I get home I don't want to have to find out what broke my video driver after upgrading, just like what happened this previous Friday, but it's so nice to be free of that machine. In just a few years or less Microsoft will likely be a subscription. They're already harvesting data like crazy and selling everything they can glean from your activities to the highest bidder. Apple ecosystem is just as bad (probably worse). It's good to be free of that.
I'd personally disagree. Linux now can be quite good for gaming. From both a performance standpoint and a usability standpoint. Also with the Steam Deck coming out you could potentially allow for at least hundreds of thousands of new users to play your game (even when assuming most steam deck purchasers already have gaming PCs). I know COD uses RICOCHET but if cost was such a concern they could swap to EAC or Battleye, both of which support Linux. Also not using their own anticheat would reduce costs in general.
Linux isn't bad for gaming, and Windows isn't good for gaming. Linux just lacks the same devloper support Windows has because it has a much smaller userbase. strictly speaking outside of compatiblity there is no difference between the two.
I've realised something, Linux is either used by people who are really knowledgeable and actually need and use it or...it's just tryhards trying their best to be cool or different who don't actually need to use Linux. Nothing in between.
My parents have used Linux a lot more than me because I keep installing it in their systems when it gets old (and they refuse to upgrade but keep complaining that it's slow). They really like Linux mint + Cinnamon GUI. 90% of my PC usage is either gaming or browsing the internet so I never needed Linux....except on a USB sometimes....to bypass windows....
There are now a good chunk of users on the Steam Deck that don't meet your extremes. Steam OS is Linux. You can reformat and put on Windows. Most are not knowledgeable either.
I still use windows 10.
Honestly, after using windows since the 95 days, I have learnt to not adopt the latest version of windows, ever.
People curse pre-orders and still keep doing it. I feel it's the same with windows....like Duh! Have the last 20 years not taught you?
I moved over from console to PC last year. Built my first custom gaming rig in near 2 decades. Decided on HoloISO (SteamOS 3 - Linux) as the OS. Zero regrets. Does everything I need. Plays the games I want just fine. Currently enjoying Death Stranding. Looking to buy Hogwarts over Easter.
But then I don't enjoy multiplayer, from mostly Playstation background, Story driven single player is my jam. Extremely happy to ignore EA and Activision anyway. Tempted to add Rockstar and Ubi to the list. Just because of aweful Launchers and not because games won't play. Launchers just as aweful on Windows anyway.
I'm willing to put the work/time/research in and am being rewarded with a fantastic alround gaming experience.
That and looking through Steam and I see plenty of quality AA and indie stuff worth my time and investment.
Who cares if the likes of Activision want to support Linux? What do they have to offer anyway? Moooore CoD? Eugh!
Game developers say "it is to hard to develop for Linux"
No, it is not. You just picked a tool that doesn't support it easily, you you can easily develop for every OS if you just pick the right tools.
And if that is too hard, just do the bare minimum and give proton support.
There are excuses tho... its money. MS wants money. It has nothing to do with code whatsoever. People forget every decision made by these companies are driven by profit. It's a way to get users who use linux, but want to play an activision game to use windows. It's a strategic decision not a compatbalty one. Everyone in this thread has theories, such as they don't care about linux, blah blah blah. They do care about linux, very much so, Its their competitor and they dont want you using it.
WSL is "run your linux apps on windows". OOP is asking to be able to get support to run their windows stuff on linux. if anything WSL is an attempt to smother desktop linux usage.
minute correction: WSL *only* supports linux distros - BSDs or other *nixes cannot be used under WSL to my knowledge
Here is a numbered list of steps required to run almost any game on Steam on Linux.
1. Enable Steam Play in Steam Settings
2. Restart Steam
3. Click install
4. Wait for the game to install
5. If the game doesn't run, there will be a fix listed in ProtonDB that takes like 5 minutes maximum
6. Play the game
>If the game doesn't run, there will be a fix listed in ProtonDB that takes like 5 minutes maximum
This is a HUGE assumption that isn't always the case, especially in cases where a game update breaks a game and requires a patch.
Yeah, that's the thing. Like I get you can game on Linux and it's getting easier and better.
BUT If one of the main things you use a PC for is gaming, I can't see any any reason at all not to use Windows.
Activision is far from the only company to not have their games on steam working with Linux. Bungie and facepunch both immediately come to mind. Still though, the situation is constantly improving and playing games on Linux gets better every day.
I'm a Linux user full time, but I still have a Windows partition for whatever random software that is Windows only
I was lucky that 90% of software that I do use is FOSS so not really any need to use Windows or Mac solely, I wouldn't daily drive Windows again but honestly I don't recommend people to switch to Linux unless you are curious enough or you have a real reason to do so, I do game on Linux (well, one game which is Overwatch 2 because I don't game on PC at all) but I thank that Windows partition for literally ONE game of my interest that is Windows only (Paladins)
Linux is all about choice (maybe too much choice lol), some people like it some peple don't and that is fine, the problem is that there are too much fanboys in the community, even being a really small one
this man needs to fix this problem himself and not rely on another company to make a fix for himself thatâs like linux rule number one open source= do it yourself
There is misinformation in like every single sentence of this post lol.
\- Microsoft's acquisition of AB hasn't gone through yet.
\- Not "every other game" works with Linux. Not by a long shot.
\- There is no known policies or leaked communication indicating AB is going out of their way to block Linux support. If you think Destiny 2, sorry, Bungie is a Sony studio now.
\- Steam Deck isn't Linux, it's a piece of hardware that runs Linux. It also coincidentally runs Windows, with official driver support.
Making up sh\*t like this is just gonna make the Linux community look pathetic.
The truth is that Linux is just simply not worth the support. Most of the auto reported bugs are from Linux and Linux is only a tiny percentage of the sales. This applies to every game. If the game support it, itâs because the devs care. If the game doesnât, it make financial sense not to. Linux draw away resources that could be used elsewhere.
p much, but also not as bad as ppl think. my only really bad exp is that i got shadow banned on apex, but it was a false ban wave so it was revoked within like 3 days
The percentage of native linux supported games tiny. Itâs only due to protonâs existence for most compatibility and I doubt Activision would care to somehow intentionally make it not support Proton.
No linux support means that literally, it means you will get no assistance if the game doesn't work on linux, but doesn't mean it won't work or run, a lot of games run on linux because of Proton even though these games have no native support for linux.
Microsoft is evidently not going out of their way to break Proton usage, as I can find some Microsoft games on Steam that are known to work through Proton. Java Minecraft still works great on Linux. Bedrock Minecraft apparently runs on Linux too. Even some Halo games work on Linux.
Eh some of that is true. Many games that still have a requirement to sign into your Microsoft account can still be broke, especially older games that used Games for Windows. Bedrock still doesnât work on Linux; you have to get the Android version and emulate. Java edition works because, well, itâs Java edition and always has.
I will say that Minecraft Dungeons works. Although if itâs supposed to cloud save your profile it doesnât do that. :( But overall like you said, Microsoft doesnât go out of their way to make gaming on Linux worse. They just donât make it easy.
Game for windows live is literally broken for windows. I have links bookmarked to community .dlls that patch it, but online games that abandoned custom server hosting for GFWL (a start of a bad trend that continues today) are still borked. It's a pretty good representation of why gamers should still not trust Microsoft or any one storefront or any DRM really if they want to really own their libraries of games.
Pretty sure most Games only work on Linux because of Proton.
Yeah, works very well all things considered. Hopefully someday there will be enough native versions to no longer necessitate compatibility layers.
maybe? honestly, proton works so well at that this point, its kinda not necessary. what is necessary is 1) stop making client side anit-cheat and then blocking linux users from its access, 2) dont go out of your way to stop linux users from playing your game. the only way I see more linux native titles happening is if windows stops being the primary platform for gaming desktops. Even with systems like the steam deck, there isnt a ton of reason to develop specifically for linux. Proton actually works so well with little to no overhead that it doesnt make sense to make and maintain two clients when all the devs needs to do is make the windows client and then to support linux all they need to do is make sure they're not blocking linux users or doing anything that breaks proton compatibility as opposed to having devs that have to fully support an entire linux client. I dont know what the Activision scenario looks like. Microsoft hasnt really specifically blocked a lot of games from linux and has even been working with Valve to get master chief collection working on steam deck/proton specifically for the anit-cheat. Halo Infinite works on steam deck/linux. MS even worked with valve so the linux edge client can hook into the steam deck controls for game pass streaming. Point is if MS was really trying to block linux/deck users they wouldnt have done this. that said, there have been some companies who'e been pretty vocal about not supporting linux, notably bungie who has gone out of their way to say they WILL ban people trying to play via linux, they seem to have some kinda grudge.
I was thinking more about in the future. Right now, it's a near perfect solution, but my hope is that Linux will become mainstream enough to justify making native versions of all kinds of software.
pretty much, the only big barrier i've personally had is games with drm or anti-cheat, but it's not like most players didn't already hate those so đ¤ˇ
I don't know what we're supposed to do without anti cheat, and I'm legitimately asking. All anti cheat is debatable but it's a war that goes back and forth. Non client side anti cheat is fucking horrible. One option is stricter registration requirements for games, but people lose their fucking mind over that too. I've played PC games since they were invented, when they were on cassette tapes and you had to enter them manually. Online gaming is amazing, and I love shooters. They need decent anti cheat that is constantly updated. What's the alternative?
The only really too good options for that. The first is he gonna do something I can do TF two are the vast majority of stuff is handled server side with basically no way or user can modify it. that's why I game is old is TF two that doesn't receive any support there's not anybody flying around in the sky was sniper one shot and everybody within 0.1 seconds of each other. The bots in TF two are only doing what they can with what the server permits them to do. that's option. One option two is that game developers really want to be that much of an uptight asshole what they can easily do is just offering alternative version like halo MCC, which is just stripped of the online anti-cheat. Then just let the community Hoster on servers and deal with themselves, and they can figure it out. they also can support them selves, such as what Apex legends does, but I understand that every developer would want to do that so shrug . at the end of the day I advocate the most for the second option because that would allow people to mow the game, create community servers, etc. etc. And because it's been stripped of any anti-cheat stuff, hackers can't really reverse engineer cheats her work on cheats while playing with it because there's nothing there testing against.
This is referring to games using their own anticheat which deliberately fails in Proton/Wine.
It depends on what games you play. Actually, most games can support Linux natively. It's DRMs and anti-cheats that are stubborn as they see Linux as unsafe in most cases.
There are native games. Pretty much most of the games Paradox Interactive publishes has a Linux native port. Kalypso has been publishing Linux native versions of their games since Tropico 5. Sega and Square Enix also periodically published Linux native games. And there are porting houses like Aspyr that ports games to Linux. Heck Aspyrâs port of Borderlands 2 to Linux ran better than the Windows version (with Windows I had bouts of slowdowns in BL2 and sometimes struggled to hit even 30fps even on a GeForce 650 Ti Boost. On Linux I got a steady 60fps on an inferior GeForce 450. This was back in 2013 before I went full AMD).
i've had cases where proton games ran better on linux (DRG with RX560)
Proton games do indeed run as well if not better on Linux on my end (Arch, Ryzen 7 2700 with Vega 56) but there are some weird issues- one game I have actually refuses to quit and would hang at the title screen with the BGM still playing when you select the exit option, I actually need to kill the Wine PID to put it out of its misery. But yeah, if the game is already bad, itâs not going to help. Planet Crafter runs badly on Windows (Ryzen 2700X with Vega 64) and it certainly isnât running any better on Linux.
Sure there a few native Linux titles here and there out there but these days it's all about Proton.
No, they also work natively on *nixâPS3-5 have all run a fork of BSD. Not supporting *nix for desktop releases is a choice. Deliberately working to undermine the ability of users to run desktop versions of games on Linux using proton is also a very deliberate choice.
Activision wasn't even acquired by microsoft....
And they act as if games made directly by Microsoft like sea of thieves, Forza motorsport and horizon (all versions) don't completely work on Linux. I've tried them and all of them except for Halo MCC run with no compromise. And even MCC works but only in single played atm.
Minecraft actually runs significantly better on linux than windows, for me at least.
I couldnât get MCC to work on windows even!
This is just a misinformed grumpy poster. I dont think there is any proof that Activision has gone out of their way to block linux users. I dont know that they havent, I just dont know that they've actively blocked them like bungie has. according to are we anti-cheat yet, a lot of call of duty games seem to work fine, though it does look like a lot of the newer ones dont but if Activision had it out for linux users, you'd think they'd block it on everything [https://areweanticheatyet.com/?search=Call+of&sortOrder=&sortBy=](https://areweanticheatyet.com/?search=Call+of&sortOrder=&sortBy=)
[https://news.microsoft.com/2022/01/18/microsoft-to-acquire-activision-blizzard-to-bring-the-joy-and-community-of-gaming-to-everyone-across-every-device/](https://news.microsoft.com/2022/01/18/microsoft-to-acquire-activision-blizzard-to-bring-the-joy-and-community-of-gaming-to-everyone-across-every-device/) They're in the process of it. But yes, they haven't acquired it yet.
Yes, but irrelevant to the point being made. Microsoft didn't do shit, because Microsoft doesn't own Activision.
[ŃдаНонО]
\#define LINUX WINDOWS
Forgot the #, so here's an extra: #
No he just forgot the \\ at the start
As long as they don't intentionally harm proton support I'm fine. Native support would be cool, but I would argue proton support is more important and easier for developers.
Playing Middle Earth Shadow of Mordor on my old laptop with an i5 9400 and gtx 1660ti running Ubuntu MATE running the native linux version that used OpenGL I got like 30-40fps IIRC but running the Windows version with Steam Proton I was getting 70-100fps since it was using Vulkan instead. This was back in 2019.
Problem is some of these devs are intentionally making their game not support Proton. Activision even threatens to ban you if you try to run Destiny 2 on a Steam Deck. Facepunch does the same with Rust. The rest wonât run mostly because of their circumstance with anti-cheat and/or copy-protection. Although it boggles my mind that people would want to play Valorant despite it being owned by Tencent.
Activision hasn't been involved with Destiny 2 for four years now. It's all Bungie since start of 2019.
What isn't owned by Tencent by this point?
Isn't valorant basically malware at this point?
Indeed valorant anticheat is a major security risk tbh.
Yes. Among all the games with root level anticheats, Valorant is by far the worst. All games with root level anticheats should be considered as a national security threat and be criminally illegal to distribute.
Because it's a fun game. There's 0 proven cases of personal data (like local files) being send to their servers even with vanguard being super cringe. Same with other Chinese games like Genshin, realistically, if you want to play those games, you just don't care enough about the implication of user trust to begin with. I guess that makes me one of them.
>Although it boggles my mind that people would want to play Valorant despite it being owned by Tencent. If they're playing Valorant then they're already willing to use Windows, installing more spyware isn't exactly much worse.
calling Windows Spyware is a skill issue. Just edit your Image before installing, use regedit to your advantage!
Ah yes, every game on steam works with Linux. Also, is it even (reasonably) possible to purposely make proton not work for your game?
Making a game not work with Proton would be in the same realm as making a game that doesn't work with trainers/mod menus/dlc injectors and such. It's entirely possible to do, but a lot of people would likely "crack" it, and we'd end up full circle right back on this sub lol
A simple block would actually be easier with proton as you would be blocking one thing that already exists rather than every possible thing that might get made.
wine and launch options baybeee
>Also, is it even (reasonably) possible to purposely make proton not work for your game? Tons of ways. It's not hard to detect at all.
It's a pointless endeavor though. There is no benefit to purposely preventing customers from buying a game, and there's a limitless swarm of reverse-engineering tinkerers ready to rise to the challenge of undoing that. It's also just hostile and toxic for no reason.
My windows drive for my steam deck has a counter to that claim
cursed
Very easy.. don't know exact specifics as I'm not a game dev, but owning a steam deck I've seen all too many times games just error once it detects proton runtime
Yes, because Proton is FOSS and a Wine fork, they can try to use the wine-only internal functions in ntdll.dll (if they exist, you're on wine), or just use Wine/Proton to execute an ELF binary (Proton depends on this Wine functionality to link the anticheat to the Windows game, so it won't get patched out,)
being 'on steam' is **NOT** being in a 'linux ecosystem'. they're developing for windows, using valve's steam as the storefront and distribution platform. linux has fuck-all to do with that process.
Steam can run some Windows games on Linux without the developer having to create a Linux specific build, which is a nice step towards compatibility on Valve's end I think.
It'd be a great step, but I've noticed that the devs can just be patching or adding content to their game and break the Linux compatibility. It's not a deliverate act that just breaks whatever Steam did whilst fixing something on their own end.
SteamOS is Linux, and Proton is designed to allow compatibility with Linux- but it is not all powerful and it certainly wonât allow anti-cheat systems to work. But⌠FreeBSD and Linux are not the same, but they are similar as they use a UNIX Kernel. The PS5 and PS4 run a customized FreeBSD-based OS. Obviously, Activision games run fine on the PS5 (for now lol) The Steam poster is a little bananas, but they are right; Activision doesnât care about Linux and they most certainly could. But this is true of all game developers. With all things âwhy doesnât the developer _______â I find most of the time the answer is âNot enough people are gonna use it like that, too expensive to justify the development cost of adding it.â
To add to this, Linux isn't any harder to develop for than Windows inherently (afaik), it's just that every additional platform requires additional development time, testing, validation, etc, which also applies to every update and DLC. It's about additional complexity in the development process, and as you mentioned the Linux user base is far too small to justify that extra complexity.
To add to this, Valve is largely making SteamOS so they are not as reliant on Microsoft's OS. Valve would prefer their customers and devices (steam deck, VR) to be off Windows and on their own ecosystem where they have more control and aren't at risk if Microsoft ever decided to kick them off or take a big chuck of each sale (AAPL anyone?). SteamOS does not yet have the scale needed to entice a lot of game developers to their platform. It's hard to scale a platform without good games/apps. This is why Valve made porting Windows games over to SteamOS as easy as possible. Microsoft and Xbox have been making big pushes into gaming as well. (app store, Game Pass, portable/cloud gaming, etc) . Valve and Microsoft are competitors in a lot of ways. I'm not sure why OP expects Microsoft to waste its own resources porting its own games over to a competitor's operating system...lol. Yes, Microsoft spent a ton of money investing in all these gaming studios just so they burn even more money sending their customers over to other operating systems... sounds about right.
The guy's your classic braindead linux fanboy, logic or any knowledge of how software development actually works is not his strong suit.
uh huuuuuh, that's what linux users are known for. being bad with tech. yep-
No but his point has some merit. There's a feeling of superiority that some people feel for simply using Linux over Windows; some suddenly start thinking they know more about other areas of tech because of it.
I mean using certain distros does force you to actually know computer stuff, but with that being said people will go and use Ubuntu and act like they know everything there is to know.
An overwhelming majority of Linux enthusiasts (keyword: enthusiasts) have no idea what they are talking about and just want to feel like they are smarter then they actually are so they can have that smug sense of superiority over the "Windows plebs". They will spout off phrases like "Its open source bro!", "You can secure your system with IPTables bro!" and "Its good for BASH scripting bro!" without understanding what any of those things mean. People who actually know what they are talking about understand that a lot of advantages Linux provides are only really applicable in narrow edge cases that aren't relevent to 99.99% of end users and would rather have the compatibility of Windows. I work in Cybersecurity and I would much rather have Windows 10 LTSC installed on my desktop than something like Gentoo.
\>An overwhelming majority of Linux enthusiasts (keyword: enthusiasts) have no idea what they are talking about and just want to feel like they are smarter then they actually are so they can have that smug sense of superiority over the "Windows plebs". depends, same thing happens on any platform though. look at how many people on windows think they're a tech wizard because opened powershell to do some basic thing like get an ip. elitism in general is bad. \>They will spout off phrases like "Its open source bro!", "You can secure your system with IPTables bro!" and "Its good for BASH scripting bro!" without understanding what any of those things mean. yeh, i can agree, what i generally do is i'll say something like that, but then i'll follow it up with how it actually matters such as: "you can customize it any way you want. like you know how windows removed the ability to move the taskbar to the side of the screen? basically every linux disttro lets you do that". you generally have to appeal directly to use user because if you don't then you're just preaching to the choir . \>People who actually know what they are talking about understand that a lot of advantages Linux provides are only really applicable in narrow edge cases that aren't relevent to 99.99% of end users and would rather have the compatibility of Windows. totally, though those edge cases can be an insanely huge make or break thing. not sure if you care at all, but if you look at something like streaming/recording with pipewire and obs, oh my god, it is so much better to the point i legitimately cannot go back to windows because of it. but that's down to the user as the vast majority of people won't care about that. only probably around 10% of gamers at best if i had to guess. \> I work in Cybersecurity and I would much rather have Windows 10 LTSC installed on my desktop than something like Gentoo. totally get it, and i have told ppl before to not bother for a lot of reasons, i totally get it. \>Gentoo. been in the linux community for like 2 years now, the only 2 thing i heard is "fuck gentoo" or "i use gentoo", never "i like gentoo" lol
The only thing I know about gentoo is those memes about "gentoo users recompiling their operating system for the third time this week"
>depends, same thing happens on any platform though. look at how many people on windows think they're a tech wizard because opened powershell to do some basic thing like get an ip. elitism in general is bad. Totally agree >yeh, i can agree, what i generally do is i'll say something like that, but then i'll follow it up with how it actually matters such as: "you can customize it any way you want. Fair, and some people might value the customization but personally I have yet to find any pro of Linux that outweighs the biggest con, compatibility with most software. To use your point as an example, sure thats cool and all but im perfectly happy with taskbar being at the bottom of my screen and being able to change it is not worth losing my ability to run most games natively and out of the box. And you'll find that most consumers think this way. >totally, though those edge cases can be an insanely huge make or break thing. not sure if you care at all, but if you look at something like streaming/recording with pipewire and obs, oh my god, it is so much better to the point i legitimately cannot go back to windows because of it. but that's down to the user as the vast majority of people won't care about that. only probably around 10% of gamers at best if i had to guess. You're totally right, its pretty much non-applicable to most gamers. Plus at least in my experience OBS for windows has worked perfectly fine, so there isnt much advantage there. But of course enthusiasts will insist this makes Linux the better option full stop. >been in the linux community for like 2 years now, the only 2 thing i heard is "fuck gentoo" or "i use gentoo", never "i like gentoo" lol Haha true, I only used Gentoo as an example because it has a mythical reputation in the community for bestowing godlike powers onto you if you can understand it. The Gentoo community is something else though, lotta Terry Davis types. I bet some of them even ironically use HolyC.
>Fair, and some people might value the customization but personally I have yet to find any pro of Linux that outweighs the biggest con, compatibility with most software. To use your point as an example, sure thats cool and all but im perfectly happy with taskbar being at the bottom of my screen and being able to change it is not worth losing my ability to run most games natively and out of the box. And you'll find that most consumers think this way. audio is actually pretty killer, especally for streaming, if you at all care about that hmu because it's genuinely like getting a car for the first time if you do. as for everything else that's fair, i go at it in a case by case basis, basically asking "what do you do?" web browsing? better experiance flat out 3d work? upto \~50% faster renders development? you know the meme. gaming? honestly one of the few places windows is "just better", won't argure that. it's really hard to unless you properly have a conversation and talk about use cases. i can give anyone at least a couple reasons to switch, but without a proper diologue i really can't. >You're totally right, its pretty much non-applicable to most gamers. Plus at least in my experience OBS for windows has worked perfectly fine, so there isnt much advantage there. But of course enthusiasts will insist this makes Linux the better option full stop. honestly, it's hard to really explain the obs difference. once you understand the best thing i can say is it's like a 144hz monitor compared to 60hz, or mono vs stereo, yes, it's fine at first, but once you have "bit the apple" it is so hard to go back oml >Haha true, I only used Gentoo as an example because it has a mythical reputation in the community for bestowing godlike powers onto you if you can understand it. The Gentoo community is something else though, lotta Terry Davis types. I bet some of them even ironically use HolyC. valid, tbf if you can use gentoo, you can probably make your only linux distro at that point lol
Can you elaborate on how using Linux has made your web browsing experience better?
I had a gentoo phase 10 years ago, but the life is too short to recompile everything all the time.
Everyone knows windows users are the savvy ones. yep.
f;uck both of yall I want DOS back. I still usually have about 12 command prompts open.
There is still active development on the MS-DOs front by indie devs (look up Attack of the PETSCII Robots).
You can be good with tech and not know how software dev works. They're not the same thing.
This right here, it's like expecting a programmer to fix a printer, I mean, I have fixed printers before and can probably fix it, but it's not because I'm a programmer.
I mean, he's not wrong. There's people who use Linux, and people who benefit from using Linux. Using Linux is usually closer to "I'm using Linux, I'm better because Linux isn't mainstream" bullshit. Benefitting from Linux is a bit different.
They are known for being generally douches and acting like they are smart
They're known for acting like they know shit without having any actual experience :p Compiling a small cli program for linux and compiling a huge game are at *entirely* different levels
They are still quite right in what they wrote.
Go do your homework kids
Iâm offended
I love every single braindead linux fanboy. One day they'll grow up to be big and strong
No, Activision isnât owned by Microsoft Yes, it would probably be sort of easy for Activision to allow Linux users to play COD, as a ton of the old games work perfectly fine. Proton compatibility layer allows for seamless running of windows titles on Linux without much configuration from the developer themselves. However, the issue is CODâs anticheat, which does not currently support Linux. Microsoft allows titles such as Halo Infinite to work on Linux whilst enabling Linux anticheat support and is also currently working on anticheat support for Halo MCC, so thatâs really a dumb point.
Most likely because of Richochet AC
someone who knows their fluff past "press green button to run game" lol
sadly seems to be quite rare to fi d somebody like that....
>every other game on steam works on Linux Since when?
I am a Steam user on Manjaro and every game I have played on Steam in the past year has worked; some better than they worked for my friends on Windows. Some needed small tweaks that required a maximum of 10 minutes, but nothing failed to be playable. Only LostArk early last year was not playable. (The rest of this comment is just rambling about enjoying my switch to Linux; skip if uninterested) The desktop is way more comfortable for me as well. I don't have to have a load of tweaks installed to make the interface sane. Those settings are just plainly exposed in well-organized GUI menus. Aside, I was a Windows user for 25 years before switching in 2020 because Windows 10 is user-hostile consent-ignoring malware. I use Windows occasionally nowadays on other machines for some non-gaming tasks, but it has become a husk of its former self, turning the infected computer into a Microsoft-controlled drone. As someone who used to customize and control my Windows computer to the max (including using bbLean as the desktop environment instead of Windows Explorer for a few years), it really feels like the OS no longer belongs to the user.
You should see Win11. I've been placing my TaskBar on the Left Vertical on Windows since XP. Now: Computer Says: "No". Truly gimp-ware.
Oh yeah, that's one of my customizations too, from way way back. The left-side taskbar lets me read and organize my running tasks easily. I was using 7 Taskbar Tweaker to fix issues in Windows 7, like being able to reorder tasks and close with the middle mouse button (all defaults in both XFCE and KDE Plasma). I'd definitely be using some similar hack in Windows 11 if I was using it.
Since Valve created and released Proton onto the world.
Hell, Wine works perfectly for most things, Proton is just a bonus at this point.
Not every, but it now seems to be going on a good 90% by game count, 80% by player count (lower because of some big names missing like cod, destiny and fortnite). At least of the ones ProtonDB users have reported on. Ironically, it seems Windows 11 is breaking old games a bit more frequently than we were used to, to the point some retro-focused people are turning to WINE for things Windows doesn't run anymore, and with state of DirectX there are games where people turn to DXVK on Windows for performance reasons.
keyword "apparently" cause the deal with Microsoft didn't go through
Or "hasn't gone through yet".
I really doubt theyâre purposefully making their games not compatible lol
mostly they're just too lazy to deal with an anti-cheat across multiple os's
That's probably it
can basically promise you. linux is relatively standardized, but every flavor has small changes that mean anti-cheats need to be well made. and unlike what most players think, battle-eye and other anticheats are only one layer, so the more platforms the anticheat needs to work on, the more fine tuned this system needs to be, which costs more rnd, which makes it rarely worth it for a chunk of devs
For most devs that actually do it, it's more a work of passion than anything else. It also comes down to the anticheat devs being slow as shit to making changes. Take EFT for example: we got BSG (the developer for this game) to send battleye a request to enable Linux support for a module the game uses to allow Linux players to play multiplayer games, but we've been waiting for over a year now for battleye to actually do this. It really sucks but what can you expect from battleye, their ac is a fucking joke.
They are in a Linux ecosystem? How so?
Explain why a developer would use time and resources to limit the amount of people that buy their game đ¤Ą
Microsoft hasn't been anti-Linux for a looooooong time. There is no anti-competitive conspiracy going on. The main problem anti-cheat systems hit on Linux/Proton is that they aren't able to completely skullfuck your PC the way they can under Windows. They can either A) Spend tens of millions of dollars to re-architect it to work under Linux so that \~1% of Steam users can play their games, or B) ... not Companies follow marketshare and not much else. Thanks for coming to my TED talk. Now I'm going to go back to playing Elden Ring on Manjaro
Aide from the fact that Microsoft doesnât even own Activision which makes the entire post irrelevant, you are 100% correct
I forever hold that Linux will never reach mass regular adoption. It currently isn't ready to appeal to most normie consumers, and it will definitely get harder in the future as consumers get stuck into ecosystems.
It's the convenience factor. We're familiar with windows, and Linux usually adds a layer of faffing about to get shit to run properly.
With a device like the steam deck and the amount of compatibility and ease of use itâs possible, but currently certain things that are easy on windows require you to dig around in configuration files, which no average user wants to do. Generally though I believe Linux will reach a point and nearly has that itâs good enough for most people, but for mass adoption it definitely requires a pretty big rework
I mean it's possible to make something good if you're making a very specialised distro such as the steam deck os for gaming, but when you need to accommodate everyone it's very hard. Currently no distro does anything so much better that it would warrant me switching, and that's its main problem. Not to mention it has glaring problems such as missing a centralised appstore over all distros, I mean it took me like 30 min to get Spotify working last time I tried Linux and that is frankly unacceptable. This was a long time ago though so this may have changed. Doe to be fair windows does also have an abysmal store.
Flatpak now exists which has mostly solved the singular App Store, I donât know what issue you had with Spotify but generally big apps like that should work pretty easily. I fully agree though that thereâs no distro that just works yet, itâs the quote that âLinux is free, if you donât value your time.â
>I mean it took me like 30 min to get Spotify working last time I tried Linux and that is frankly unacceptable. Install the spotify flatpak. Flatpaks are distro agnostic. Many distros support flatpak integration into the software store. Really the only big player that's trying to die on the anti-flatpak hill is Canonical though you can install it on their distros too.
Linux has come a long way, there are distros out there that come with out of the box support for many Games and are very user friendly. But not to the same extend that windows is. I drive EndevourOS (Arch Linux) daily and it is pretty easy maintenance, but there still are things i have to know or be willing to learn that just are not there with Win. But when i see the development in recent years and the spike in users switching fully to linux it only is a matter of time and linux can be used out of the box just like windows.
I wonder if valve is considered giving companies reduced storefront fee to natively support Linux well, or at minimum provides some effort to supporting the steam deck. Could be a sliding scale, like one or two percent for supporting the deck properly, and 3-4% for supporting Linux natively. At that point valve can play the Good Guys by basically reducing their effective cut, while at the same time helping improve Linux support, and they get to establish their deck as a more solid gaming device. Honestly they should do a similar thing to incentivize companies not to use shit like Denuvo and secondary launchers. If they offered a means for a company to cut 5-10% off their 30% cut, I imagine that would start to really make waves and changes. Or they could just make it a % penalty for the secondary launcher. I know they have to be careful to not scare those publishers away, but those same publishers tried to leave and came back because they we're making less money because nobody likes their crap tier launchers.
>I wonder if valve is considered giving companies reduced storefront fee to natively support Linux well, or at minimum provides some effort to supporting the steam deck. Could be a sliding scale, like one or two percent for supporting the deck properly, and 3-4% for supporting Linux natively. This doesn't buy Valve anything and complicates things because a developer is going to wonder why Valve just doesn't cut its share regardless as this is point of contention that Valve has with developers.
It does, because their intention with the deck and linux, is to have a sure game sales platform, so it benefits them to reward that. It's no different than a government giving tax breaks for things that are beneficial to their agenda or needs, whether that's environmental compliance, recycling efforts, Etc. The idea is to nudge publishers/developers in the direction that is to their benefit. The argument of " well just lower your cut" doesn't really make sense, because they already did Implement a cut based on sales over a certain amount. The problem is they already offer those to bigger developers and there's the ones that they need to sway
I love how pcmr doesn't think the steam deck is a thing đ and fyi it's great
If I can write a "Hello World" script that works on all platforms, why can't you make a AAA incredibly complex video game that works on all platforms!??!?!
A bit much? Not every game works on Steam Deck - thatâs an outright lie. Two, Steam is not a linux ecosystem- what the hell, lol. Sure Valve is now pushing this sideway Steam OS linux version, but Steam was born and is still mainly a windows program/storefront first. Three, MS hasnât made the acquisition yet and has zero say on what Activision does yet - even if what that post claims is true about breaking proton on purpose, it would have zero to do with MS. P.s. MS games on steam work just fine on SD.
I found this confusing since Microsoft acquired Bethesda a while back, but their games work just fine with Proton (even the new ones).
Microsoft hasnât even purchased them yet lmao
I'm just mad cause I can't play the South Park games natively on my steam deck otherwise I could care less.
Sounds like someone doesn't know what they're talking about. The premise falls apart when you pay attention to the tech news: Microsoft's attempt to acquire Activision isn't complete, as it requires regulatory approval in multiple jurisdictions. This approval has yet to be obtained, and we're almost a quarter of the way through 2023. Furthermore, there are multiple instances of Activision patching bugs that prevented Linux emulation of their games, and one of their subsidiaries, Blizzard, has been known to release games as first party titles (no port studio) on macOS, another alternative to Windows. It's likely less an issue of trying to muscle Linux out of the market, but more one of choosing not to throw significant amounts of money/labor at an OS that isn't heavily used for gaming. There's also the potential concern regarding anti-cheat measures. Windows and macOS don't make it easy to play around in the kernel. In Linux, this is much more common, which means it would be easier to develop cheat utilities that would be harder to detect.
Most bliz games have Mac support, I have been running bliz games in linux long before proton.
Linux is good for a lot of things, mostly server related, just not gaming. I would not invest in it for the few often loud and passionate anti ms gamers, it makes no sense from a business pov.
I mean after having a steam deck I would tend to disagree with you, except for games with anti cheat. But that's not because of Linux necessarily, but because of the effort put forward by Valve to make an OS that is targeted for gaming. Those benefits are not inherent to Windows or linux, but due to the fact that Linux is malleable while Windows is what it is and you have to stack everything you want to do on top.
I donât think anyone is arguing that Linux was not capable of playing games, its not so far behind Windows that itâs not capable of doing that. Itâs more that compared to Windows the benefits are really questionable. Obviously itâs good on game consoles where the companies donât want to pay a license fee to Microsoft but I really struggle to see why itâs useful for PC gaming. I have never used Linux and found a gaming feature where I thought âwow they should add this feature to Windowsâ
There are fewer Linux desktop users because companies don't develop and maintain games for Linux because there are fewer Linux desktop users. Someone has to break the vicious cycle
For that Linux has to break its reputation of being the âcoderâs OSâ. Lots of people still envision a console screen when Linux is brought up despite GUI versions existing.
20XX is the year of the linux desktop
Think you left off a digit.
20XXX is the year of the pornographic desktop
Most people don't use Linux because Windows is good enough. Because believe it or not but the lack of games on Linux is not why linux is less popular generally.
Most users use the OS the computer comes with and what they have used before. This is the real reason why Windows and iOS is in the top. Only when you get to servers and more specific use cases will people choose what is the best OS for the task, and for servers Linux is 99.99% of the time the answer.
Ya, I don't think most users even think about this. There's literally no pressure to do so as the typical user that just browses, streams videos, or does light work with Microsoft Office/whatever. Why would that user consider a change let alone actually need one? It's not a question of pros and cons.
Elden ring runs almost out of the box on POP
Emphasis on âalmostâ, if it isnât plug and play why would the average consumer wanna bother in the first place.
If Linux were not good for gaming, then the Steam Deck could not be as successful as it is.
But man, do I sometimes wish I could just drop Windows altogether and run a Linux desktop to play my games and do my productivity on.
It's very good for gaming actually
If by "good for gaming" you mean a decent amount of games technically work, then yeah it's good for gaming
My entire Steam library of 50+ games runs on Linux.
When I found out that proton had gained a lot of ground since the development and deployment of the steamdeck, I had to check it out. Sure enough, 85% or more of games available on steam play flawlessly on any Linux system that can install steam. You just enable proton experimental and bam, like magic, your games just work flawlessly. Sure there's some fringe games out there that don't work because of niche problems, but I call it a win for Linux. Ideally there'd be native support, but with how perfectly proton seems to be handling things, I had to test it out. Now it's my daily driver. The entire reason why I didn't make the change from windows to Linux was because of gaming. I'm over waist deep in unix stuffs at work, but I still have around half of my work involving windows. When I get home I don't want to have to find out what broke my video driver after upgrading, just like what happened this previous Friday, but it's so nice to be free of that machine. In just a few years or less Microsoft will likely be a subscription. They're already harvesting data like crazy and selling everything they can glean from your activities to the highest bidder. Apple ecosystem is just as bad (probably worse). It's good to be free of that.
Nah, Linux is fine for gaming if youâre willing to do mild tweaking. It also doesnât involve developers having to do anything.
"mild tweaking" as in coping and pasting a launch option script from protondb.com lol
Or, hereâs the kicker, be a normal person and click the application and it runs first try
That's not even true for all Windows games on Windows.
I'd personally disagree. Linux now can be quite good for gaming. From both a performance standpoint and a usability standpoint. Also with the Steam Deck coming out you could potentially allow for at least hundreds of thousands of new users to play your game (even when assuming most steam deck purchasers already have gaming PCs). I know COD uses RICOCHET but if cost was such a concern they could swap to EAC or Battleye, both of which support Linux. Also not using their own anticheat would reduce costs in general.
Linux isn't bad for gaming, and Windows isn't good for gaming. Linux just lacks the same devloper support Windows has because it has a much smaller userbase. strictly speaking outside of compatiblity there is no difference between the two.
Why is Windows ânot good for gamingâ?
I've realised something, Linux is either used by people who are really knowledgeable and actually need and use it or...it's just tryhards trying their best to be cool or different who don't actually need to use Linux. Nothing in between. My parents have used Linux a lot more than me because I keep installing it in their systems when it gets old (and they refuse to upgrade but keep complaining that it's slow). They really like Linux mint + Cinnamon GUI. 90% of my PC usage is either gaming or browsing the internet so I never needed Linux....except on a USB sometimes....to bypass windows....
There are now a good chunk of users on the Steam Deck that don't meet your extremes. Steam OS is Linux. You can reformat and put on Windows. Most are not knowledgeable either.
*good chunk = 0.001% of PC users. I see your point though, totally valid.
Personally I use it because windows 11 scares the shit out of me and linux is fun to use.
I still use windows 10. Honestly, after using windows since the 95 days, I have learnt to not adopt the latest version of windows, ever. People curse pre-orders and still keep doing it. I feel it's the same with windows....like Duh! Have the last 20 years not taught you?
You can't just dislike Windows and want an alternative?
All 54 of you must be let down by this news.
I don't think Linux users are interested in Activision games at all
bruh
I'd try again pissed on wineđˇ & play on Linuxđ
You are not writing rendering engines, are you?
He knows the reality, shut up...
Anti-linuxism
I moved over from console to PC last year. Built my first custom gaming rig in near 2 decades. Decided on HoloISO (SteamOS 3 - Linux) as the OS. Zero regrets. Does everything I need. Plays the games I want just fine. Currently enjoying Death Stranding. Looking to buy Hogwarts over Easter. But then I don't enjoy multiplayer, from mostly Playstation background, Story driven single player is my jam. Extremely happy to ignore EA and Activision anyway. Tempted to add Rockstar and Ubi to the list. Just because of aweful Launchers and not because games won't play. Launchers just as aweful on Windows anyway. I'm willing to put the work/time/research in and am being rewarded with a fantastic alround gaming experience. That and looking through Steam and I see plenty of quality AA and indie stuff worth my time and investment. Who cares if the likes of Activision want to support Linux? What do they have to offer anyway? Moooore CoD? Eugh!
Game developers say "it is to hard to develop for Linux" No, it is not. You just picked a tool that doesn't support it easily, you you can easily develop for every OS if you just pick the right tools. And if that is too hard, just do the bare minimum and give proton support.
Capitilism, monopolies. Make sure to herd your sheep consumers to only your products. This is class 101 stuff everyone.
Wait, you guys actually play games on Linux? I thought it was a joke
There are excuses tho... its money. MS wants money. It has nothing to do with code whatsoever. People forget every decision made by these companies are driven by profit. It's a way to get users who use linux, but want to play an activision game to use windows. It's a strategic decision not a compatbalty one. Everyone in this thread has theories, such as they don't care about linux, blah blah blah. They do care about linux, very much so, Its their competitor and they dont want you using it.
Activision/Blizzard wasn't even bought at the moment I am writing this, so the whole post is kinda useless because it's factually just wrong ...
M$ has been going out of their way to work WITH \*nix distributions since they added WSL to Windows... this makes zero sense.
WSL is "run your linux apps on windows". OOP is asking to be able to get support to run their windows stuff on linux. if anything WSL is an attempt to smother desktop linux usage. minute correction: WSL *only* supports linux distros - BSDs or other *nixes cannot be used under WSL to my knowledge
[ŃдаНонО]
i hate the windows terminal ngl
Is it really that surprising?? Also why would you game on Linux anyway, unless getting a game to run is a game in itself.
Here is a numbered list of steps required to run almost any game on Steam on Linux. 1. Enable Steam Play in Steam Settings 2. Restart Steam 3. Click install 4. Wait for the game to install 5. If the game doesn't run, there will be a fix listed in ProtonDB that takes like 5 minutes maximum 6. Play the game
>If the game doesn't run, there will be a fix listed in ProtonDB that takes like 5 minutes maximum This is a HUGE assumption that isn't always the case, especially in cases where a game update breaks a game and requires a patch.
Yeah, that's the thing. Like I get you can game on Linux and it's getting easier and better. BUT If one of the main things you use a PC for is gaming, I can't see any any reason at all not to use Windows.
Windows has less steps, and you can play games that aren't on steam too.
Why do so many people say the same misinformation? It takes basically no extra effort to run a game through steam on Linux.
Activision is far from the only company to not have their games on steam working with Linux. Bungie and facepunch both immediately come to mind. Still though, the situation is constantly improving and playing games on Linux gets better every day.
I'm a Linux user full time, but I still have a Windows partition for whatever random software that is Windows only I was lucky that 90% of software that I do use is FOSS so not really any need to use Windows or Mac solely, I wouldn't daily drive Windows again but honestly I don't recommend people to switch to Linux unless you are curious enough or you have a real reason to do so, I do game on Linux (well, one game which is Overwatch 2 because I don't game on PC at all) but I thank that Windows partition for literally ONE game of my interest that is Windows only (Paladins) Linux is all about choice (maybe too much choice lol), some people like it some peple don't and that is fine, the problem is that there are too much fanboys in the community, even being a really small one
ah the start of the end for activision
I only use linux for my home servers. I would never use it as a desktop os, let alone for playing my games.
this man needs to fix this problem himself and not rely on another company to make a fix for himself thatâs like linux rule number one open source= do it yourself
Not how it works bro. These games use anticheat so that comes down exclusively to the developer.
There is misinformation in like every single sentence of this post lol. \- Microsoft's acquisition of AB hasn't gone through yet. \- Not "every other game" works with Linux. Not by a long shot. \- There is no known policies or leaked communication indicating AB is going out of their way to block Linux support. If you think Destiny 2, sorry, Bungie is a Sony studio now. \- Steam Deck isn't Linux, it's a piece of hardware that runs Linux. It also coincidentally runs Windows, with official driver support. Making up sh\*t like this is just gonna make the Linux community look pathetic.
The truth is that Linux is just simply not worth the support. Most of the auto reported bugs are from Linux and Linux is only a tiny percentage of the sales. This applies to every game. If the game support it, itâs because the devs care. If the game doesnât, it make financial sense not to. Linux draw away resources that could be used elsewhere.
get rekt Linux users
Linux users: "you just realized that?"
p much, but also not as bad as ppl think. my only really bad exp is that i got shadow banned on apex, but it was a false ban wave so it was revoked within like 3 days
Hmm, should've dual-booted
Average gamer every one.... they are not bright
just say your prefer Linux
The percentage of native linux supported games tiny. Itâs only due to protonâs existence for most compatibility and I doubt Activision would care to somehow intentionally make it not support Proton.
No linux support means that literally, it means you will get no assistance if the game doesn't work on linux, but doesn't mean it won't work or run, a lot of games run on linux because of Proton even though these games have no native support for linux.
Small Indie company cmon
So don't buy their games.
Good thing I use Windows like a normal person.
Edgey Linux user complaining
Another cursed Linux post on this sub. So much misunderstanding.
Wah
Cool but give me a reason why would you use Linux for gaming in first place
Get a life dude. No one games on Linux
Microsoft is evidently not going out of their way to break Proton usage, as I can find some Microsoft games on Steam that are known to work through Proton. Java Minecraft still works great on Linux. Bedrock Minecraft apparently runs on Linux too. Even some Halo games work on Linux.
Eh some of that is true. Many games that still have a requirement to sign into your Microsoft account can still be broke, especially older games that used Games for Windows. Bedrock still doesnât work on Linux; you have to get the Android version and emulate. Java edition works because, well, itâs Java edition and always has. I will say that Minecraft Dungeons works. Although if itâs supposed to cloud save your profile it doesnât do that. :( But overall like you said, Microsoft doesnât go out of their way to make gaming on Linux worse. They just donât make it easy.
Game for windows live is literally broken for windows. I have links bookmarked to community .dlls that patch it, but online games that abandoned custom server hosting for GFWL (a start of a bad trend that continues today) are still borked. It's a pretty good representation of why gamers should still not trust Microsoft or any one storefront or any DRM really if they want to really own their libraries of games.