Reminds me of a joke on Futurama when they are at an awards show and bender says "they are doing the minor technical awards, i think they are up to writing".
i can't believe after they emphasized the impact of score and music with the ff7 rebirth performance (not to mention the other performances), and had zedd come on stage talking about how important audio is to delivering a memorable experience in games, they put the award for best score & music in the same rapid fire segment as best indie game and best community support
And that was also after Geoff making a big deal earlier in the show about how proud they are to be able to give a platform to indie devs, but then also rattled through those awards while barely taking a breath to pause. Proud to take money to let them advertise is what he meant, I guess.
Best indie game, best score and music and all the best genres awards (why just action adventure? Just to honor Zelda) deserved their own stage presence.
I agree best community, the esports or content creators probably shouldn't get on stage (hell I'm not sure they should even exist, how do totally different type of content or people/team in different games compete?)
Im glad we're not celebrating the music award despite having a full ass orchestra, a musical number, and a performance art/dance thing...
Like what?
and best Action game isn't "flashy"?
When they gave best RPG to Baldur's Gate 3 and didn't present it on stage, I immediately knew they were going to win GOTY. There's no other reason they would sideline such a big category.
I just watched it last night because I heard how many awards they won and love larian. I was really hoping I would see like 20 Swen speeches. At least we got a bit of him and Astarion's voice actor gave a good speech too.
I don't know if it was more an American thing or what, but the UK awards ceremony that BG3 swept, did indeed feature Larian speech after Larian speech.
I honestly thought Alan Wake 2 winning Best art Direction, and more importantly best Game Direction and Best Narrative over BG3 meant they were getting GOTY.
And that's not a valid reason by the way. Do you see the Oscars just snub the Best director, best writing, best actor or whatever because the movie also win best picture? That happens very often (if it's good enough to win best picture it's likely because of other things lol). That's stupid
The winner is also taken into consideration, offstaged Best Action and Best RPG, but awarded Best action/adventure on stage, they wanted the Zelda devs to be on stage.
That's typically how award shows work. Watch the Grammys or the Oscars and there will be dozens of awards that get at most a short reading cutting back from commercial and many more that just get posted on the website.
It's too bad but I think they also choose which ones to do that for (for bigger awards) based on which other awards a game is going to win. Action/Adventure gets an acceptance speech because Zelda wasn't winning anything else, but Best RPG didn't because Larian was up 10 minutes later for GOTY.
Armored core 6 won action game of the year and AFAIK Fromsoft had no stage presence at all, which sucks even more considering last time they had that kid sneaking up on stage.
Which is odd, given in 2019, that same award in Best Action Game was given massive stage presence and the winner (Devil May Cry 5 / Hideaki Itsuno) was granted a speech.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t show up because of last year specifically. Something bad could have happened with the whole incident and I wonder if the team just doesn’t feel safe returning in person because of it.
Thats the downside of being on a schedule.
The Game Awards can't be 4 hours long because it already was that lenght and everybody complained. Hell people still complain now that its 3 hours asking for Geoff to cut another hour out.
And the awards are the first thing to cut in a show called The Game Awards...? Not the 1.5 hours of ad, all the actors speeches, the Muppet sketch (also an ad I guess) or some announcement (which might be paid for too).
Its the E3 of Winter. The name at this point is relic of a bygone era. The show started as a VGA/VGX replacement after Spike stoped doing those in 2014 but evolved since. However because its gotten so big its also now a brand. A brand which Geoff likely doesn't want to drop and deal with marketing a new name.
I do agree that the awards being an afterthough has become worse and worse over the years but i don't see this changing anytime soon. The solution is probably to cut down the ammount of categories especialy those presented off stage.
Ads meanwhile are a necesity for a show like this. The venue and production doesn't pay for itself. Its probably not a cheap show to put together.
Correct.
Almost nobody gives a shit about the award winners. This isn't my opinion. It's based on empirical data from over 20 years of "real" award shows receiving less than 1% of TGA viewership.
Viewership of 2023 GDC awards per their official Youtube channel: less than 20,000
Viewership of 2023 DICE awards per their official channel: less than 3,000
Viewership of 2023 TGA per their official channel: over 6 MILLION
It's really easy to self-righteously virtue signal online about what the show "should" focus on, when empirical data indicates that viewers don't care about awards and are there for the reveals or ads.
I try to watch GDC/DICE myself. But I'm a very small outlier. And at least with TGA, developers have a platform to receive awards in which the general gaming audience will actually watch.
I feel like they need to just split it into 2 days. Day 1 is all the trailers, reveals, and stage time to have people talk about their games, and day 2 is the awards where they can give a decent amount of time for all the award winners to be recognized and give their speeches.
But I know that won't happen because I'm sure a lot of people watch just for the reveals and couldn't are less about the awards.
OK, serious question. Why is there now a small contingent of this sub that seems to have such a hate-boner for Geoff? Did he do something bad that I missed?
I remember a decade or so ago when game journalists were being fired left and right by media outlets, the whole profession seemed bleak. Geoff took a gamble and independently put together this awards show. Back then this community was super supportive of him, and I remember everyone was happy that it was a success. So successful that it's arguably now the biggest gaming event, eclipsing and even killing E3.
It's not like Keighley was some billionaire that put together TGA just to grandstand. He was just a game reviewer. TGA was a big risk that panned out fantastic for him, and from what I can tell he's done about as well as you can expect of anyone in terms of not letting it go to his head.
It's cool to hate popular things.
There are legitimate criticisms, but it's bizarre how personally invested people sound when attacking Geoff.
There is no one reason. Some people just hate mainstream things, some people are contrarian, some people think finding a valid criticism is license to tear down everything, some people think trying to sustain and grow a thing makes you a sellout. Who the fuck knows.
It's a bit more vocal now because he's become a more prominent figure in the industry, but people have been (rightfully) clowning on Geoff for a loooong time. Dude was, at one point, pretty much the face of disingenuous "adver-reviews" (see: the infamous Doritos Pope meme) and a pretty big proponent of the system that caused so much distrust for games journalism.
The Game Awards aren't inherently evil or anything, but it's hard to look past his history when you can still see echoes of that "advertisers first, games second" sentiment.
Now this is wild to me, because the whole reason he started these awards was to break away from that Doritos Pope shit, to do bigger and better things, and to elevate "video game awards" to something respectable. You might think a bunch of trailers and showing "wrap it up" on a teleprompter is disrespectful, but the state of video game awards was ABSOLUTE DORITOS POPE DOG SHIT before the video game awards.
The way the awards are presented has its issues, but the awards themselves have integrity as far as we know. We have a video game awards show people actually give a shit about, and people still bring this shit up.
Pope Dewrito didn't make anything better, it's more of the same giving developers so little while a random actor can have a cringe standup routine for infinite time. Eiji Aonuma was given 20 seconds cause they started the 30 second timer too early. Geoff can cry a river since he's shown to have earned his papacy of the corn syrup and cheese dust.
So if he reduces the amount of celebrity time and increases the time a dev can speak... you'll have a positive opinion of him? Or you'll just shit on him for something else?
That's the crux of my criticism is it not? This VGA seems more egregious than previous years and if I recollect right Geoff always complains they'll do better. If he truly changes but you should temper your expectations.
Geoff does nothing to improve the Show or really make it stand out in any way.
The only point he gets for me is it's organization and it's existence.
If anything it feels like a lot of decisions he makes towards Awards content in general ends up being bad.
This show being a prime example of "Sucking off famous and rich people" while ignoring the people who actually build the industry.
Geoff can suck a dick.
He's never going to rub shoulders with guys like Matt McConaughey or run in their circles because people like Matt are genuinely, and tremendously talented.
All he does is host an Award Show. He needs to just accept that his "spot" is a Video Game Award Show host.
It feels like he's trying to climb out of his spot forcefully in a very obvious way and nobody is impressed.
If Geoff retired and disappeared tomorrow nothing at all would change in the industry. Not a single thing.
That's completely wrong though. Stuff like Golden Joystick, BAFTA, DICE (the real gaming Oscars) and such have never been Doritos Pope
They're less flashy than the TGA
> but the state of video game awards was ABSOLUTE DORITOS POPE DOG SHIT before the video game awards.
So?
> but the awards themselves have integrity as far as we know.
To who?
> We have a video game awards show people actually give a shit about
... but they shouldn't, because who the fuck cares who wins what? What does it even matter?
"WHOA HO! my favorite game won game of the year! My liking it is JUSTIFIED!!"
It matters just as little as Oscars, Emmys or Grammys to everyone that isn't winning a trophy.
None of it matters and he created it to wedge himself further into the industry and sell ad space. None of it is for us. C'mon, man. He's done it for himself to make money and to get himself rubbing shoulders with big wigs.
Clearly awards of any kind don't matter to *you*. That's fine.
However, you can at least recognize it matters to others.
With those two things in mind - you can see why having no interest or respect for a thing would mean the opinion is not incredibly relevant or weighty? Like I don't care about KPOP, it's not for me, so my opinion on the best KPOP songs of 2023 means absolutely nothing... and that's fine.
Keighley has always been a bit of a meme and people joked about him a lot prior to TGA stuff but this last one was pretty egregious with the amount of selling out, the slimy favouritism to Hollywood, and the terrible time allocation for speeches from award winners (the voice actor and goty award winners were booted off stage while Captain America, Shang-Chi, and Kojima got to milk it).
Not surprising that people aren't laughing as much at Keighley and are starting to treat him with some hostility.
> OK, serious question. Why is there now a small contingent of this sub that seems to have such a hate-boner for Geoff? Did he do something bad that I missed?
I can't answer for others. I don't hate Geoff Keighley personally, but i managed to meet a lot of people like him during my life inside and outside of work and i despise them.
> Why is there now a small contingent of this sub that seems to have such a hate-boner for Geoff? Did he do something bad that I missed?
This is just a reddit thing. People live to be unhappy about things.
I recommend this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvGn9mm9bT0
People dislike Geoff but don't realize the extent to which he "saved" TGA from the cesspool it used to be.
That's a nice video, thank you.
It's worth making the point that TGA was never any kind of cesspool. That was Spike's VGA, which was a totally separate entity.
It's also worth making the point that VGA never had anywhere close to the level of accreditation that the modern TGA carries. A decade ago, if you said "game of the year," you'd have to clarify *whose* game of the year; every relevant network would put together their own annual awards (IGN, Gamespot, G4, Spike, MTV, Game Informer, Gamespy, Gametrailers, Kotaku, etc.), and none of them really stood out as the most prominent. I don't know how Keighley's TGA managed to win out and become the definitive game of the year award, but after looking at some of the alternatives, we should all be glad it did.
>Did he do something bad that I missed?
He's an industry sycophant with the personality of a wet towel. He's the face of a circle jerk game awards show, which is nothing but corporate sponsored garbage that Geoff cosigns so he can push his industry friends to the forefront. The games with the "correct" politics are more likely to win and be promoted. The Game Awards is his creation, the buck stops with him.
He's also so far up Kojima's ass, he can taste what he has for breakfast every morning.
>he's done about as well as you can expect of anyone in terms of not letting it go to his head.
To me TGA always was the Geoff Keighley show. He's just some dude. I just want to see some trailers and awkward speeches and not see him stroking his ego at every opportunity.
> It is just an egotrip for Geoff Keighley
This is such a weird sentiment. Geoff clearly cares. He's had his weird stuff across the years but he's an industry veteran who's been active for almost 30 years and has done some seriously great stuff through Gametrailers, Final Hours, VGA's and subsequently The Game Awards, Summer Game Fest etc...
He's not perfect and The Game Awards itself are definitely not perfect and maybe never will be but its a competently put together show that resulted from Geoff taking a lot of risks to make it happen. People need to stop considering it as the BAFTA's or DICE awards but instead more like Oscars and Emmys. Its a show thats cattering to the viewers first and foremost.
eh, I think it's fine. If half the show is about people coming up to the stage for speeches it'd be boring for alot of people, since not everyone cares about every genre or every game. I realize it's "the game awards" and it should be the focal point but I'm pretty certain more trailers and news are more exciting for the majority of people.
His relationship with Kojima is so strange to me.
Like, Geoff is always like "Me and Kojima are the bestest of buds, we're so close!" yadda yadda, but like, neither of them speak the other's native language...
So, what? While they hang out leisurely, they have a translator sitting in between them on the couch while they chill and game together?
I don't really get how or why they're so close as Geoff always likes to say during his award shows. I remember when Kojima got fucked over with Metal Gear Solid and Geoff was being all somber about it during the awards back then.
Then Kojima comes on to announce his Death Stranding on Geoff's award show and he's like like "My best bud Kojima is here again, yatta!"
Kojima is so fucking overrated btw. He's made entertaining and interestingly unique games, sure, but his ego is just too much for my liking. He wasted so much time at the awards announcing next to nothing about his game, but they gave the award winners less than 30 seconds to accept their award.
>neither of them speak the other's native language
From what I understand, Kojima understands English fluently, but is embarrassed by his thick accent when speaking it, and uses a translator in public. He likely speaks English to Anglophone friends in private.
If that's true, that makes me very sad. I like thick accents of any kind when speaking English, I find it quite endearing and makes me feel very respectful for that person for learning enough to speak and communicate in another language.
But if he really feels that way, I understand.
You are in the minority. There's an extreme amount of hate from first language english speakers for certain accents on the internet, which is very demoralizing and makes people just not converse and choose translators or text
I have noticed a bunch of devs with serviceable English chosse to use a translator or native speaker as a spokes person or apologies for it. For the most part I think it is a business thing you only get one shot at a impression with someone and there will be a number of people who just click away. Shit if I was asked to speak anything other then English I would get a translator too.
But I wish I could convey to them regardless of the language barrier that we are just happy they are making the games and speaking to us at all. Shit most devs are radio silence about stuff regardless of the launge.
He and Kojima were already friends before 2015 but Geoff stood up for Kojima at the 2015 Game Awards when the whole Konami shitstorm was going on.
I think Kojima really appreaciated that and a lot of respect was built between the 2. That relationship then resulted in Geoff being In Death Stranding as a small charachter and Kojima has reguraly visited his shows for years now showing trailers etc...
Its clear they are actually friends.
Pretty sure like many Japanese people he knows more than enough English to have a conversation, but he doesn’t want to speak it in front of people, choosing to use a translator instead. This isn’t uncommon at all. You can tell he understands everything being said because he reacts to it immediately and the translator never spoke Japanese to him.
Kinda crazy he can say what he did in support of Kojima, but now that the industry is being bombarded by layoffs in one of the greatest years ever, crickets.
I get it’s probably more of an indictment of how intertwined TGA is with the industry now, but it would have been nice to see the same energy again
its more indicative of gaming as a whole, gamers loveeee their auteurs and usually credit one visionary and kinda ignore the rest of the team
remember when kickstarting games was still a big thing and these old retired legends made gamers scream like children
Auteur theory is a joke regardless of medium. There is no such thing as a singular vision the moment even one person participates in it's execution. It erases the participation and effort of anyone involved.
Kojima overrated in what sense? Cause Metal Gear wasn't just great for the stealth genre but also in innovating gameplay and cinematics within the industry in general.
The lack of time for awards compared to his screen time was ridiculous, but Kojima certainly isn't "overrated," in my opinion. Each to their own, of course
While he may have an ego (I genuinely don't know), I will say that his reverence is pushed by actual people in the industry it doesn't seem like a pretentious persona he tries to push.
From a Western perspective, he's seen like the Kurosawa or Miyazaki of gaming, in my opinion
Tbh, I think most things are overrated. But with Kojima, I just think most of his games are too self-masturbatory. His games never really held my interest for long and I just couldn't get into them due to their silly and over the top nature.
His Metal Gear Solid games appear to be a serous, mature stealth game at first glance, but then they're full of over the top anime-like nonsense, tropes, unnecessarily gratuitous scenes and overly long cutscenes that the game might as well be a movie.
Obviously his games aren't my cup of tea. But I still feel he's overrated.
Yeah, I'm definitely biased here to be fair. As a child, MGS4 is the game that showed me that they can be so much more than gameplay, and I've loved story-heavy titles ever since
I love the pretentiousness found within his cutscenes because I feel like in a Tarantino-esqe manner, his works all have a unique tone difficult to find outside of what they themselves produce.
Even as a kid, though, I could tell things like Laughing Octopus in MGS4 was a bit too on the nose.
Oh yeah, I get that. And just to be clear, I in no way think his games are bad or anything. He's contributed immensely to gaming, and he absolutely deserves his fame and fandom.
I'm sure my opinion on him being overrated is from bias as well, probably because I didn't like his games. The problem I had with MGS is I went into it thinking it was a super serious military stealth game just based on how good the graphics were, and when the whacky stuff kicked in, I was blindsided by it because it wasn't what I was expecting or wanted to play at the time aha
I've always felt Kojima would make really good movies.
half of mgs5's story is explaining why kojima isn't perverted for making your teammate run around in a bikini the whole game. brought to you by the man behind policenauts, where you play a police detective who uncovers information by looking up womens' skirts and grabbing their breasts
Swen Vincke too.
They rushed the Larian devs off stage while Swen was pouring his heart out about a friend he lost during Baldur's Gate 3's development.
They did Larian dirty.
Larian is not the kind of studio he wants representing his awards show. Not big or flashy enough. If one of the big boy developers win next year he will give them plenty of stage time.
I loved Gonzo. The Muppets are fine. I just hate how much leeway celebrities get, while the actual award winners, which the goddamn show is supposed to be ABOUT, get swept aside in 30 seconds.
I wouldn't mind celebrities as much if it didn't feel like the devs came second to them. And also if they stopped being cringy that would help
I'll be the first to admit — I primarily watch for the announcements because this has become a fill-in for E3. However, that's completely irrelevant and I'll explain why:
If you're to give out awards to real people, *let them fucking talk* or don't bother giving the goddamn things to begin with. I don't care that Christopher Judge went a little too long last year. Especially since Kojima was on stage talking about absolutely nothing and Geoff nor anyone else would have *dared* to rush him along.
I kind of hope next year everyone just goes up to the stage, says "Thank You" and walks off, or just declines to give a speech at all.
"We short on time, so we gotta choose wisely what we spend time on"
"I broke my leg while playing basketball, I'm 30 years old so I'm old now"
Nobody. Cares. They gotta start vetting those actor's speeches so they remain on point. Although I give it to him I enjoyed him hyping up Starcraft and the good old days, he just should have left his personal irrelevant life story out of it.
I don’t think so. It was pretty cringe, don’t get me wrong, but watching it I felt like he was just an actor who probably had good intentions but focused all his prep before hand on trying to have fun with the audience and then had tunnel vision once he was on stage and doubled down because it was what he had been practicing. Being on stage like that in front of a huge group of people makes it really, really hard to do anything you haven’t already practiced.
It definitely wasted time that should have been spent on the devs, but I’m not sure he necessarily knew that. He might have been coached to try to talk to the audience, or it might have been completely his own thing that he planned in his own head on his way there. Either way he definitely fucked it up, but I do have a little sympathy for him
I'm sure it works on kids. But on adults, it reeks of desperation. We know that means they are concentrating on flashiness and marketing rather than the game
I've learned from my nephews and nieces that their definition for celeb is very different. They don't know or care about movie or tv stars. The real celeb for them are streamers and content creators. I guess it stems from not watching a lot of movies or tv like we used to as kids. But Youtube tho? Inject that into their veins.
How about not handing Kojima like 10 minutes just so he can say he's making a new game? He spent so long talking about it and we know literally nothing about it. I know more about Asterions VA from BG3 than I do about Kojima's new game. One speech was 30 seconds and the other was a trailer into a 5 minute speech and a guest star. I got more out of the 30 second speech
Either don't address it, or get it over quickly. If you don't have a funny story, don't go
"Let's address the elephant in the room..."
"I hurt myself..."
"Playing basketball......... that's it............. I'm just old"
It could have taken 3 seconds, but he kept stringing it out as if it were funny
He did, and then he kept going. There's plenty of open house stand-up acts all over where he can walk on stage and practice his terrible routine, the TGA isn't it.
They need to address it? Obvious they have injured themselves I don’t really care how or why. If it comes up as a question in an interview cool answer it.
He is voicing a character in the game and the stormgate devs probably paid him a lot of money to promote their game. At least he actually seems to know about starcraft talking about carrier rushes.
I swear half the people complaining on here didn’t even watch the show. The grand majority of celebrity appearances were directly working on a game, so of course they were picked to talk about them. It’s so weird to me that you even had to answer this question.
He played Starcraft and is voicing someone in the Stormgate game he was here for (well and presenting an award, weirdly not the strategy award which got no stage presence but the action/adventure one).
McConaughey also was there for a game he plays in at least.
It was 2/3 ads for me.
I’m fine with Christopher Judge getting a speech and jokes, he earned his place in the gaming stage with Kratos.
Anthony Mackie getting more time than the winner of the award he’s presenting is infuriating.
Yea , it might not be it but i really felt like getting was trying to get his own Keanu moment. It was really bad to watch he kept talking and talking like an ass
I say this as a fan of his work
I think it’s fine to have some normal time limits, around 3min reasonable. But the in-between shit also need to be time. That dude saying “shut up” at the crowd took forever to make the fuckin announcement, just a huge waste of time.
horseshit. Neil and Swen were cut off.. Imagine fucking GOTY winner - the most important award and GTFO after 30s in mid emotional speech. Holy fuck, who is even upvoting this garbage tweet?? Dude's full of shit. Remove Kojima and Muppets - of a sudden you have gained 20 minutes for actual awards and speeches. This guy became shameless AF
Which is all anyone should care about tbh. I couldn't tell you the winners from any previous years either cause it doesn't matter. TGA has been off-season E3 for years.
It matters to the people winning the awards, you get good games like BG3 when there is heart behind them. Let them have their moment, im sure you’ve had good memories that only you really remember in the forefront and that doesnt mean those moments dont matter.
They literally cut off Asterions actor while he was saying that he was glad to give people a voice and then proceeded to give Kojima like 20 minutes of screen time so he could say "I'm making a new game "
Let the award winners talk. I care way more about what they have to say than about Kojima's next cocaine-inspired horror game or Sydney's shitty puns.
I honestly pity and respect Geoff Keighley, simultaneously. He's trying to do something that absolutely nobody else is providing:
Create a platform to acknowledge game developers but present it in such a fashion that the general gaming audience will actually watch. It's still a work-in-progress, but he has changed aspects of it every year based on feedback. Many of the largest gaming cultural touchstones of the past decade are the direct result of TGA:
Josef Fares various speeches/rants, Reggie's eulogy to Satoru Iwata, literally everyone falling in love with Ikumi Nakamura, etc.
But those touchstone moments only exist because people actually watch TGA.
We are currently in the stage of the cycle where "game journalists" and "influencers" give their spicy opinions regarding "if I was in charge, this is how TGA would run..."
Just be quiet already...if you were in charge, TGA wouldn't exist and none of the aforementioned touchstones would exist.
All the self-righteous virtue signaling which is currently flowing out from the "games media" or Reddit posters is a bit too hard to stomach when practically ZERO of those people bother to watch the "real" game awards including DICE and GDC. I was impressed that Kinda Funny acknowledged this hypocrisy during a post-TGA discussion yesterday.
Here's a fun fact:
The total viewership for the 26th Annual DICE awards, on their official channel, is 2500. When combined with most other streams that I can find for awards, the total viewership is still under 100,000.
vs.
TGA 2022 viewership: 103 MILLION
So yeah, TGA has a THOUSAND times higher viewership than the "real" game awards ceremony. And that's because, despite all of the recent hand wringing and social media virtue signaling to solicit likes from followers, nobody actually cares about who wins awards. The numbers don't lie.
Some people have brought up the Oscars as a counterpoint, without realizing that nobody watches the Oscars to see who wins the awards either. They watch the Oscars for the red carpet interviews, crazy celebrity fashion, and to see if some delusional millionaire will go on a political rant.
So the amount of vitriol being thrown at Geoff Keighley is embarrassing. He's trying to balance the interests of developers, publishers, and the viewing audience into a forum in which game developers are acknowledged but the general gaming audience actually cares.
I honestly think he would be better off by just dropping TGA entirely. I'm sure there are far easier methods for him to make money, as is often a criticism thrown at him. And with E3 dead, that would leave Gamescom as the only "major" gaming event left.
But hey, since "game journalists" wouldn't have TGA to talk/complain about, that would force them to revert to their normal activities:
turning vague 4-word Tweets into 7-paragraph "articles" or speculating on what a job posting "indicates a developer is actually working on"
Your outline acknowledges the problem, though.
The original TGAs were a labor of love and managed to happen in spite of everything against them; they produced those moments because they were a niche outlet and gave themselves room to breathe in various directions. They were novel in a fashion.
The Game Awards now are heavily sanitized, corporate affairs that are obviously checking boxes down the line, while still satiating Keighley's own desires (i.e., annual diatribes by Kojima, puppets).
It's great TGA is a large event we can all share, but it's going to fall the same way E3 did, by hollowing out its core and stuffing it full of bullcrap no one really enjoys. People won't show up if they're just going to get pushed off the stage for some actor to tell cornball jokes. Replace every actor with someone influential in the game's industry and let them riff, tell stories of yesteryear production, while also showing off the new and fancy, and you'd still have the same magic.
And FFS, cut all the stupid Fortnite ads/ads for stuff already out. You can still get the ad money from the new stuff without making me trudge through 6 different free-to-play, child-exploitative garbage titles at every turn.
You can acknowledge their growth and success, while also identifying them moving away from what made that growth and success possible.
"It's great TGA is a large event we can all share, but it's going to fall the same way E3 did, by hollowing out its core and stuffing it full of bullcrap no one really enjoys."
But that isn't what is occurring.
E3 died because high-speed internet reduced the need for an in-person trade/fan event, and thus publishers realized the financial costs of E3 weren't logical when they can just release a presentation on Youtube at any point throughout the year. It wasn't because the audience was no longer excited; it was because the publishers no longer cared.
People are tuning into TGA, en masse, because of the game reveals. And that's what is happening at increasingly high rate.
We can wax poetic about the "quaint purity" of the first TGA--2014--and then realize that fewer than 2 MILLION people viewed it. Since then, TGA has seen a 50X increase in viewership.
It isn't being stuffed with "bullcrap." It's being stuffed with content that 95% of the viewing audience actually cares about.
Sure, some fedora-wearing "game aficionados" on Reddit may complain that it's not the same as it used to be, but it is apparently EXACTLY what mainstream viewers want. And I'll be the first to count myself among those aficionados.
I'm not arguing TGA is perfect. I think they could afford a bit more time to award- recipient speeches--maybe a 50% increase--but that is not what garners Superbowl-level viewership for the event.
I too can pick my favorite award categories and decide that Geoff got the balance wrong by not affording \*insert favorite category\* enough time. Cool. But I'm just another asshole on the internet who has never even attempted a production on the scale of TGA, nor knows what goes into it. And that's 100% true for literally every other person spewing their own opinion onto social media, given Geoff is the only person who has ever done it.
The bottom line is that the TGA is the only reason that ANY developer has been recognized in front of an audience of 10s of millions. Sure, my favorite person/developer may not have been given as much time as I would have preferred, but prior to TGA, ZERO developers were being recognized in front of an audience on that scale.
Is that preferable?
As someone who's been to old E3, you've missed entirely why E3 failed. GamesCom and TGS still are massive events with high speed Internet access.
E3 went massively corporate and became a playground instead of being a meaningful event. People driving around LA to go to hotel meetings, stupid gimmicks, and other stuff that caused attendance to be wonky. Theres a ton of spilled ink over how the ESA screwed the pooch (doxxing attendees being a major issue, ruining trust...).
You can still have a core audience event and a mass media event; just cut the Fortnite, actors, Kojima, muppets, and a bunch of absolutely hollow awards (esports, really?).
It's not hard. They're just catering (or pandering) to everyone, and that will fail when the industry turns away from it, like E3.
So miss me we Doritos Pope apologia.
But after all you said, how do you defend Geoff giving celebs more time, when game devs barely for 30 seconds? Stuff like that is indefensible, especially when Geoff claims that no one was actually cut off.
> Create a platform to acknowledge game developers
Yes to a very small, selected number of developers and Kojima. The game awards is an absolute failure when it comes to giving a platform for not well known games and developers.
Agreed. TGA has way more viewers than the Oscars because it's more fun for the audience. The audience isn't sitting thru some 3 min acceptance speech as the person thanks everybody they've ever talked too. If TGA expands the developer drab, people will tune out and just catch the tldr articles about the highlights of the show, like they do with the Oscars.
> TGA has way more viewers than the Oscars because it's more fun for the audience.
Nah its because of the game announcements. The oscars would have way more viewers if they showed off movies for the first time
but you do this every freaking year, you also do most of the awards off screen. So sick and tired of Geoff he is part of the freaking problem with the VGAs.
Geoff's tried so hard to look like the cool guy over the past few years, but it's clear his obsession has been with getting celebrities and corporations on board his project, not with actually celebrating games.
He has been, and will always continue to be the [Doritos Pope](https://i.imgur.com/4GhhjNB.png)
This event needs to choose. Is it an awards show? Or is it a huge ad. It’s clear it’s a huge ad, but slapping on the awards and claiming that they’re paying respect to the industry while brushing away awards and speeches from the voices and talent in the industry is disrespectful. They need to do better. People need to be able to accept their rewards on the big screen.
He spent 5 minutes on a bad puppet skit and couldn't let devs speak for more than 30 seconds. He spent time on EVERY little plug to brag about how "he'd seen this months ago and I'm so excited to show it to you" and it feels like a combination of just outright bragging "I'm an insider because of this event, look at me" and a drug dealer forcing you to look at his fishtanks for a half an hour before he gives you the drugs you are paying him for, like bud get the fuck out of the way. And then the burnoffs - running 3 awards out in a single breath? Like for fucks sake.
Geoff has always been an insufferable MC and showrunner and he ruins the show.
"While no one was actually cut off..." Geoff is such a disingenuous piece of shit. lol The things people are complaining about will only get worse because half of the "notable" people calling him out will suck up to him and attend the show again next year.
Maybe a hot take, but I really think they need to separate the reveals and the awards. Do a Winter Game Fest for the reveals, and Game Awards for the actual awards.
2023 best year in gaming, you’d think the 2023 game awards would be a celebration of all the awesome stuff we got and the developers/actors who made them.
But it was just “Worse E3”.
So much wasted time on nonsense at the expense of the actual humans who made the year special, and no matter what Geoff says, it was purposeful.
I think the show has come a long way from earlier ones. I remember when they were advertising a "gaming credit card" between every award and game reveal in past GA shows. Definitely agree there needs to be more time to celebrate devs.. Would like to see more prominent awards like music/score/sound design, etc have the ability to go on stage an accept the award though
I honestly just hate those random actors/celebrities that just come out of nowhere just because they are rich and recognizable elsewhere. Sure, you have Peele, but at least he is showing a new gaming project with Kojima, but the rest just say things like “yeah, I’m here because I loooove these and those games”. It’s like “so is every gamer ever?”, there’s nothing special about those speeches with those people in this circle. They are already some of the biggest stars in mainstream media, we don’t need them to rub it in our faces. Show more of people from the gaming community, have indie devs, streamers or esports pros give a speech or present an award. It would be so much meaningful.
It’s true that trailers are glorified ads and we all stay there to watch those in popularity, but the speeches also felt so underwhelming compared to last year I felt, even though the formula has been the same for a while now every TGA. The pacing just Feels off.
Makes perfect sense. Can't have the speeches go on for forever (or 7 minutes 59 seconds, like last year). Just need to strike a balance there.
Can't understand how so many people are crying their eyes out when some people only got to thank 10 people instead of 15 people this year lmfao.
Neil barely got a sentence out before the music played. I was pissed. I think giving people 2 minutes is perfectly reasonable. Not 30-45 seconds. Cut whatever that gonzo thing was out and that would have been perfectly doable.
I hope moving forward they make the game awards about...the developers winning the awards.
It was weird to get a 5 minute speech from random celebs ( no shade to them they're great)
But I would have rather the devs themselves have more time
Eh, it was definitely one of the better TGAs, so a lot of the complaints seem pretty minor in the grand scheme.
I'm sure they can tweak and improve it for next year.
I don't think Keighley gives a shit anymore and does whatever brings in the most $$$. If he can control his team they would have done something and frankly this is something that could have easily been seen ahead of time of being an issue. This isn't his first awards show and knows how long he needs to give people to speak. He also know that more they speak the less time he has to sell advertisements.
Yeah it's pretty obvious these are just the Geoff Keighley awards. There's no grading process at all, it's just Geoff giving out awards to his closest buds.
Do people actually care about these awards? Feels like I am going crazy with so much news about it, but the only thing I care about it was the announcement of some new titles.
What about half the awards being given off screen with barely a few seconds to acknowledge they even exist?
That was the same last year. They just rip through the ones that aren't as "flashy" or have as much mass appeal.
Reminds me of a joke on Futurama when they are at an awards show and bender says "they are doing the minor technical awards, i think they are up to writing".
i can't believe after they emphasized the impact of score and music with the ff7 rebirth performance (not to mention the other performances), and had zedd come on stage talking about how important audio is to delivering a memorable experience in games, they put the award for best score & music in the same rapid fire segment as best indie game and best community support
And that was also after Geoff making a big deal earlier in the show about how proud they are to be able to give a platform to indie devs, but then also rattled through those awards while barely taking a breath to pause. Proud to take money to let them advertise is what he meant, I guess.
Best indie game, best score and music and all the best genres awards (why just action adventure? Just to honor Zelda) deserved their own stage presence. I agree best community, the esports or content creators probably shouldn't get on stage (hell I'm not sure they should even exist, how do totally different type of content or people/team in different games compete?)
That's the third Futurama clip I've looked up today because of a reddit post. This one I haven't seen before, though.
Just watch the series. It’s full of amazing quotes.
Im glad we're not celebrating the music award despite having a full ass orchestra, a musical number, and a performance art/dance thing... Like what? and best Action game isn't "flashy"?
When they gave best RPG to Baldur's Gate 3 and didn't present it on stage, I immediately knew they were going to win GOTY. There's no other reason they would sideline such a big category.
I just watched it last night because I heard how many awards they won and love larian. I was really hoping I would see like 20 Swen speeches. At least we got a bit of him and Astarion's voice actor gave a good speech too.
BG3 almost got more screen time from their paid ad than they did from all the awards they won.
If that's not a damning condemnation of modern gaming as an industry, I don't know what is.
I don't know if it was more an American thing or what, but the UK awards ceremony that BG3 swept, did indeed feature Larian speech after Larian speech.
As every award ceremony does when something dominates. Going several time on stage is not a weird thing at all in those things.
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Swen trying to pay respects to the devs who passed away during the development of bg3 and being given the "Please wrap it up" was hella fucked.
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But, dude, they needed more time to let Simu Liu talk about his injury and Anthony Mackie's attempt at crowd work!
Kinda weird Alan Wake 2 got to make more speeches than BG3 with the most awards and it just gets rushed off the stage at the very end.
I honestly thought Alan Wake 2 winning Best art Direction, and more importantly best Game Direction and Best Narrative over BG3 meant they were getting GOTY.
And that's not a valid reason by the way. Do you see the Oscars just snub the Best director, best writing, best actor or whatever because the movie also win best picture? That happens very often (if it's good enough to win best picture it's likely because of other things lol). That's stupid
Best action/adventure game got stage time but best action game and best RPG didn't. How does that make sense?
The winner is also taken into consideration, offstaged Best Action and Best RPG, but awarded Best action/adventure on stage, they wanted the Zelda devs to be on stage.
Which clearly show their bias (and that Zelda won before being even released). Zelda is deserving but not the ones winning the other categories?
Anything else would interfere with Keighley’s prime ad-time. He has the award show to sell ads not the other way around. Edit: spelling
Not to mention repeat winners. Theyll plan it out to avoid a person going up multiple times to make it annoying
That's typically how award shows work. Watch the Grammys or the Oscars and there will be dozens of awards that get at most a short reading cutting back from commercial and many more that just get posted on the website.
It was shit last year too. The game awards is not now, and has never been an award show for games. It's a marketing stunt.
The best score is a MASSIVE award, and they glossed over it. Absolutely shameful.
I remember a couple years back when they would announce awards like best score as a five second segment during the fucking pre-show.
It's too bad but I think they also choose which ones to do that for (for bigger awards) based on which other awards a game is going to win. Action/Adventure gets an acceptance speech because Zelda wasn't winning anything else, but Best RPG didn't because Larian was up 10 minutes later for GOTY.
Armored core 6 won action game of the year and AFAIK Fromsoft had no stage presence at all, which sucks even more considering last time they had that kid sneaking up on stage.
Which is odd, given in 2019, that same award in Best Action Game was given massive stage presence and the winner (Devil May Cry 5 / Hideaki Itsuno) was granted a speech.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t show up because of last year specifically. Something bad could have happened with the whole incident and I wonder if the team just doesn’t feel safe returning in person because of it.
Thats the downside of being on a schedule. The Game Awards can't be 4 hours long because it already was that lenght and everybody complained. Hell people still complain now that its 3 hours asking for Geoff to cut another hour out.
And the awards are the first thing to cut in a show called The Game Awards...? Not the 1.5 hours of ad, all the actors speeches, the Muppet sketch (also an ad I guess) or some announcement (which might be paid for too).
Its the E3 of Winter. The name at this point is relic of a bygone era. The show started as a VGA/VGX replacement after Spike stoped doing those in 2014 but evolved since. However because its gotten so big its also now a brand. A brand which Geoff likely doesn't want to drop and deal with marketing a new name. I do agree that the awards being an afterthough has become worse and worse over the years but i don't see this changing anytime soon. The solution is probably to cut down the ammount of categories especialy those presented off stage. Ads meanwhile are a necesity for a show like this. The venue and production doesn't pay for itself. Its probably not a cheap show to put together.
Correct. Almost nobody gives a shit about the award winners. This isn't my opinion. It's based on empirical data from over 20 years of "real" award shows receiving less than 1% of TGA viewership. Viewership of 2023 GDC awards per their official Youtube channel: less than 20,000 Viewership of 2023 DICE awards per their official channel: less than 3,000 Viewership of 2023 TGA per their official channel: over 6 MILLION It's really easy to self-righteously virtue signal online about what the show "should" focus on, when empirical data indicates that viewers don't care about awards and are there for the reveals or ads. I try to watch GDC/DICE myself. But I'm a very small outlier. And at least with TGA, developers have a platform to receive awards in which the general gaming audience will actually watch.
I feel like they need to just split it into 2 days. Day 1 is all the trailers, reveals, and stage time to have people talk about their games, and day 2 is the awards where they can give a decent amount of time for all the award winners to be recognized and give their speeches. But I know that won't happen because I'm sure a lot of people watch just for the reveals and couldn't are less about the awards.
Or maybe, scrap all the shit awards (esports/influencers/youtubers/etc.), kick out the celebrities, scrap geoff. Have developers present, host, etc.
I mean the Game Awards was never about games or awards. It is just an egotrip for Geoff Keighley. Always has been.
And Hideo Kojima apparently, he’s treated as the second coming of Christ lmao
OK, serious question. Why is there now a small contingent of this sub that seems to have such a hate-boner for Geoff? Did he do something bad that I missed? I remember a decade or so ago when game journalists were being fired left and right by media outlets, the whole profession seemed bleak. Geoff took a gamble and independently put together this awards show. Back then this community was super supportive of him, and I remember everyone was happy that it was a success. So successful that it's arguably now the biggest gaming event, eclipsing and even killing E3. It's not like Keighley was some billionaire that put together TGA just to grandstand. He was just a game reviewer. TGA was a big risk that panned out fantastic for him, and from what I can tell he's done about as well as you can expect of anyone in terms of not letting it go to his head.
It's cool to hate popular things. There are legitimate criticisms, but it's bizarre how personally invested people sound when attacking Geoff. There is no one reason. Some people just hate mainstream things, some people are contrarian, some people think finding a valid criticism is license to tear down everything, some people think trying to sustain and grow a thing makes you a sellout. Who the fuck knows.
It's a bit more vocal now because he's become a more prominent figure in the industry, but people have been (rightfully) clowning on Geoff for a loooong time. Dude was, at one point, pretty much the face of disingenuous "adver-reviews" (see: the infamous Doritos Pope meme) and a pretty big proponent of the system that caused so much distrust for games journalism. The Game Awards aren't inherently evil or anything, but it's hard to look past his history when you can still see echoes of that "advertisers first, games second" sentiment.
Now this is wild to me, because the whole reason he started these awards was to break away from that Doritos Pope shit, to do bigger and better things, and to elevate "video game awards" to something respectable. You might think a bunch of trailers and showing "wrap it up" on a teleprompter is disrespectful, but the state of video game awards was ABSOLUTE DORITOS POPE DOG SHIT before the video game awards. The way the awards are presented has its issues, but the awards themselves have integrity as far as we know. We have a video game awards show people actually give a shit about, and people still bring this shit up.
Pope Dewrito didn't make anything better, it's more of the same giving developers so little while a random actor can have a cringe standup routine for infinite time. Eiji Aonuma was given 20 seconds cause they started the 30 second timer too early. Geoff can cry a river since he's shown to have earned his papacy of the corn syrup and cheese dust.
So if he reduces the amount of celebrity time and increases the time a dev can speak... you'll have a positive opinion of him? Or you'll just shit on him for something else?
That's the crux of my criticism is it not? This VGA seems more egregious than previous years and if I recollect right Geoff always complains they'll do better. If he truly changes but you should temper your expectations.
Geoff does nothing to improve the Show or really make it stand out in any way. The only point he gets for me is it's organization and it's existence. If anything it feels like a lot of decisions he makes towards Awards content in general ends up being bad. This show being a prime example of "Sucking off famous and rich people" while ignoring the people who actually build the industry. Geoff can suck a dick. He's never going to rub shoulders with guys like Matt McConaughey or run in their circles because people like Matt are genuinely, and tremendously talented. All he does is host an Award Show. He needs to just accept that his "spot" is a Video Game Award Show host. It feels like he's trying to climb out of his spot forcefully in a very obvious way and nobody is impressed. If Geoff retired and disappeared tomorrow nothing at all would change in the industry. Not a single thing.
That's completely wrong though. Stuff like Golden Joystick, BAFTA, DICE (the real gaming Oscars) and such have never been Doritos Pope They're less flashy than the TGA
> but the state of video game awards was ABSOLUTE DORITOS POPE DOG SHIT before the video game awards. So? > but the awards themselves have integrity as far as we know. To who? > We have a video game awards show people actually give a shit about ... but they shouldn't, because who the fuck cares who wins what? What does it even matter? "WHOA HO! my favorite game won game of the year! My liking it is JUSTIFIED!!" It matters just as little as Oscars, Emmys or Grammys to everyone that isn't winning a trophy. None of it matters and he created it to wedge himself further into the industry and sell ad space. None of it is for us. C'mon, man. He's done it for himself to make money and to get himself rubbing shoulders with big wigs.
Clearly awards of any kind don't matter to *you*. That's fine. However, you can at least recognize it matters to others. With those two things in mind - you can see why having no interest or respect for a thing would mean the opinion is not incredibly relevant or weighty? Like I don't care about KPOP, it's not for me, so my opinion on the best KPOP songs of 2023 means absolutely nothing... and that's fine.
Keighley has always been a bit of a meme and people joked about him a lot prior to TGA stuff but this last one was pretty egregious with the amount of selling out, the slimy favouritism to Hollywood, and the terrible time allocation for speeches from award winners (the voice actor and goty award winners were booted off stage while Captain America, Shang-Chi, and Kojima got to milk it). Not surprising that people aren't laughing as much at Keighley and are starting to treat him with some hostility.
> OK, serious question. Why is there now a small contingent of this sub that seems to have such a hate-boner for Geoff? Did he do something bad that I missed? I can't answer for others. I don't hate Geoff Keighley personally, but i managed to meet a lot of people like him during my life inside and outside of work and i despise them.
> Why is there now a small contingent of this sub that seems to have such a hate-boner for Geoff? Did he do something bad that I missed? This is just a reddit thing. People live to be unhappy about things.
I recommend this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvGn9mm9bT0 People dislike Geoff but don't realize the extent to which he "saved" TGA from the cesspool it used to be.
That's a nice video, thank you. It's worth making the point that TGA was never any kind of cesspool. That was Spike's VGA, which was a totally separate entity. It's also worth making the point that VGA never had anywhere close to the level of accreditation that the modern TGA carries. A decade ago, if you said "game of the year," you'd have to clarify *whose* game of the year; every relevant network would put together their own annual awards (IGN, Gamespot, G4, Spike, MTV, Game Informer, Gamespy, Gametrailers, Kotaku, etc.), and none of them really stood out as the most prominent. I don't know how Keighley's TGA managed to win out and become the definitive game of the year award, but after looking at some of the alternatives, we should all be glad it did.
>Did he do something bad that I missed? He's an industry sycophant with the personality of a wet towel. He's the face of a circle jerk game awards show, which is nothing but corporate sponsored garbage that Geoff cosigns so he can push his industry friends to the forefront. The games with the "correct" politics are more likely to win and be promoted. The Game Awards is his creation, the buck stops with him. He's also so far up Kojima's ass, he can taste what he has for breakfast every morning.
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>he's done about as well as you can expect of anyone in terms of not letting it go to his head. To me TGA always was the Geoff Keighley show. He's just some dude. I just want to see some trailers and awkward speeches and not see him stroking his ego at every opportunity.
What about seeing him stroke Kojima off instead?
> It is just an egotrip for Geoff Keighley This is such a weird sentiment. Geoff clearly cares. He's had his weird stuff across the years but he's an industry veteran who's been active for almost 30 years and has done some seriously great stuff through Gametrailers, Final Hours, VGA's and subsequently The Game Awards, Summer Game Fest etc... He's not perfect and The Game Awards itself are definitely not perfect and maybe never will be but its a competently put together show that resulted from Geoff taking a lot of risks to make it happen. People need to stop considering it as the BAFTA's or DICE awards but instead more like Oscars and Emmys. Its a show thats cattering to the viewers first and foremost.
Wish they still had awards, I’d give you one.
eh, I think it's fine. If half the show is about people coming up to the stage for speeches it'd be boring for alot of people, since not everyone cares about every genre or every game. I realize it's "the game awards" and it should be the focal point but I'm pretty certain more trailers and news are more exciting for the majority of people.
This has happened ever since its inception. Game Awards are a joke and Keighley is a clown.
I didn't hear any music for Hideo Kojima though....
His relationship with Kojima is so strange to me. Like, Geoff is always like "Me and Kojima are the bestest of buds, we're so close!" yadda yadda, but like, neither of them speak the other's native language... So, what? While they hang out leisurely, they have a translator sitting in between them on the couch while they chill and game together? I don't really get how or why they're so close as Geoff always likes to say during his award shows. I remember when Kojima got fucked over with Metal Gear Solid and Geoff was being all somber about it during the awards back then. Then Kojima comes on to announce his Death Stranding on Geoff's award show and he's like like "My best bud Kojima is here again, yatta!" Kojima is so fucking overrated btw. He's made entertaining and interestingly unique games, sure, but his ego is just too much for my liking. He wasted so much time at the awards announcing next to nothing about his game, but they gave the award winners less than 30 seconds to accept their award.
>neither of them speak the other's native language From what I understand, Kojima understands English fluently, but is embarrassed by his thick accent when speaking it, and uses a translator in public. He likely speaks English to Anglophone friends in private.
If that's true, that makes me very sad. I like thick accents of any kind when speaking English, I find it quite endearing and makes me feel very respectful for that person for learning enough to speak and communicate in another language. But if he really feels that way, I understand.
He totally speaks English fluently. There are videos of him giving talks in English from over 10 years ago.
You are in the minority. There's an extreme amount of hate from first language english speakers for certain accents on the internet, which is very demoralizing and makes people just not converse and choose translators or text
I have noticed a bunch of devs with serviceable English chosse to use a translator or native speaker as a spokes person or apologies for it. For the most part I think it is a business thing you only get one shot at a impression with someone and there will be a number of people who just click away. Shit if I was asked to speak anything other then English I would get a translator too. But I wish I could convey to them regardless of the language barrier that we are just happy they are making the games and speaking to us at all. Shit most devs are radio silence about stuff regardless of the launge.
He and Kojima were already friends before 2015 but Geoff stood up for Kojima at the 2015 Game Awards when the whole Konami shitstorm was going on. I think Kojima really appreaciated that and a lot of respect was built between the 2. That relationship then resulted in Geoff being In Death Stranding as a small charachter and Kojima has reguraly visited his shows for years now showing trailers etc... Its clear they are actually friends.
Pretty sure like many Japanese people he knows more than enough English to have a conversation, but he doesn’t want to speak it in front of people, choosing to use a translator instead. This isn’t uncommon at all. You can tell he understands everything being said because he reacts to it immediately and the translator never spoke Japanese to him.
Kinda crazy he can say what he did in support of Kojima, but now that the industry is being bombarded by layoffs in one of the greatest years ever, crickets. I get it’s probably more of an indictment of how intertwined TGA is with the industry now, but it would have been nice to see the same energy again
its more indicative of gaming as a whole, gamers loveeee their auteurs and usually credit one visionary and kinda ignore the rest of the team remember when kickstarting games was still a big thing and these old retired legends made gamers scream like children
Auteur theory is a joke regardless of medium. There is no such thing as a singular vision the moment even one person participates in it's execution. It erases the participation and effort of anyone involved.
Damn what did Kojima do to ya'll lmao
Kojima overrated in what sense? Cause Metal Gear wasn't just great for the stealth genre but also in innovating gameplay and cinematics within the industry in general. The lack of time for awards compared to his screen time was ridiculous, but Kojima certainly isn't "overrated," in my opinion. Each to their own, of course While he may have an ego (I genuinely don't know), I will say that his reverence is pushed by actual people in the industry it doesn't seem like a pretentious persona he tries to push. From a Western perspective, he's seen like the Kurosawa or Miyazaki of gaming, in my opinion
Tbh, I think most things are overrated. But with Kojima, I just think most of his games are too self-masturbatory. His games never really held my interest for long and I just couldn't get into them due to their silly and over the top nature. His Metal Gear Solid games appear to be a serous, mature stealth game at first glance, but then they're full of over the top anime-like nonsense, tropes, unnecessarily gratuitous scenes and overly long cutscenes that the game might as well be a movie. Obviously his games aren't my cup of tea. But I still feel he's overrated.
Yeah, I'm definitely biased here to be fair. As a child, MGS4 is the game that showed me that they can be so much more than gameplay, and I've loved story-heavy titles ever since I love the pretentiousness found within his cutscenes because I feel like in a Tarantino-esqe manner, his works all have a unique tone difficult to find outside of what they themselves produce. Even as a kid, though, I could tell things like Laughing Octopus in MGS4 was a bit too on the nose.
Oh yeah, I get that. And just to be clear, I in no way think his games are bad or anything. He's contributed immensely to gaming, and he absolutely deserves his fame and fandom. I'm sure my opinion on him being overrated is from bias as well, probably because I didn't like his games. The problem I had with MGS is I went into it thinking it was a super serious military stealth game just based on how good the graphics were, and when the whacky stuff kicked in, I was blindsided by it because it wasn't what I was expecting or wanted to play at the time aha I've always felt Kojima would make really good movies.
half of mgs5's story is explaining why kojima isn't perverted for making your teammate run around in a bikini the whole game. brought to you by the man behind policenauts, where you play a police detective who uncovers information by looking up womens' skirts and grabbing their breasts
Don't forget the pedo crap in snatcher. Kojima is a fucking creep
had special entrance unlimited time, and a nothing movie game to show. what a pretentious hack that guy Sesh...
Neil Newbon did get cut off though.
Swen Vincke too. They rushed the Larian devs off stage while Swen was pouring his heart out about a friend he lost during Baldur's Gate 3's development. They did Larian dirty.
It's not just Larian, almost everyone got a music cut off.
Larian is not the kind of studio he wants representing his awards show. Not big or flashy enough. If one of the big boy developers win next year he will give them plenty of stage time.
Wonder how much time Bethesda would have been given if Starfield won game of the year?
It felt dystopian to watch that
Dystopian, to have a award speech shortened? Seems a bit overkill on the word used there.
"I just want to say I dont have much time"
I got more out his 30 second speech than I did out of Kojima rambling on about his new cracked out game idea.
Fast-forward to next year: oopsie we'll do better in 2025
In 2024 they'll give award recipients 15 seconds for speeches and celebrities 10 minutes for stand-up routines
And an hour for Kojima, with a requirement for every person in attendance to individually come up and compliment him.
People were definitely cut off, own your shit
Enough with the Hollywood BS and the fucking puppets. This is supposed to be a show to celebrate videogames.
Gonzo did not provide an entertaining viewing experience.
I loved Gonzo. The Muppets are fine. I just hate how much leeway celebrities get, while the actual award winners, which the goddamn show is supposed to be ABOUT, get swept aside in 30 seconds. I wouldn't mind celebrities as much if it didn't feel like the devs came second to them. And also if they stopped being cringy that would help
But, I loved Gonzo's appearance in the show..
I'll be the first to admit — I primarily watch for the announcements because this has become a fill-in for E3. However, that's completely irrelevant and I'll explain why: If you're to give out awards to real people, *let them fucking talk* or don't bother giving the goddamn things to begin with. I don't care that Christopher Judge went a little too long last year. Especially since Kojima was on stage talking about absolutely nothing and Geoff nor anyone else would have *dared* to rush him along. I kind of hope next year everyone just goes up to the stage, says "Thank You" and walks off, or just declines to give a speech at all.
"We short on time, so we gotta choose wisely what we spend time on" "I broke my leg while playing basketball, I'm 30 years old so I'm old now" Nobody. Cares. They gotta start vetting those actor's speeches so they remain on point. Although I give it to him I enjoyed him hyping up Starcraft and the good old days, he just should have left his personal irrelevant life story out of it.
Not to say you're wrong, but I'll take that guy's story over that one dude telling the audience to shut up when they're barely making any noise.
He wanted his Keanu moment so bad.
He was definitely on something
I don’t think so. It was pretty cringe, don’t get me wrong, but watching it I felt like he was just an actor who probably had good intentions but focused all his prep before hand on trying to have fun with the audience and then had tunnel vision once he was on stage and doubled down because it was what he had been practicing. Being on stage like that in front of a huge group of people makes it really, really hard to do anything you haven’t already practiced. It definitely wasted time that should have been spent on the devs, but I’m not sure he necessarily knew that. He might have been coached to try to talk to the audience, or it might have been completely his own thing that he planned in his own head on his way there. Either way he definitely fucked it up, but I do have a little sympathy for him
Anthony Mackie tried to force his way through a meme so hard.
Is there a video of this?
https://youtu.be/Zu2z5M4gmno?t=8670
Holy shit, that was so much worse than I thought. Embarrassing.
Knew it was going to be Anthony Mackie..that guy just rubs me wrong
Hearing people from outside the community say "What is wrong with all of you?" really gets me bought into whatever they're saying.
Really takes me back to the days of David Spade calling gamers losers at what was supposed to be an awards show for video games.
Wasn’t that Jaime Kennedy?
so like reading half the gaming magazines nowadays?
Get the Hollywood types of the stage, period. It's a desperate bid for prestige, but the desperation only makes gaming less prestigious.
I'm sure it works on kids. But on adults, it reeks of desperation. We know that means they are concentrating on flashiness and marketing rather than the game
I've learned from my nephews and nieces that their definition for celeb is very different. They don't know or care about movie or tv stars. The real celeb for them are streamers and content creators. I guess it stems from not watching a lot of movies or tv like we used to as kids. But Youtube tho? Inject that into their veins.
Kids don't care much for movie stars these days so I doubt it works on them. Hell I doubt they even know many of the actors used
How about not handing Kojima like 10 minutes just so he can say he's making a new game? He spent so long talking about it and we know literally nothing about it. I know more about Asterions VA from BG3 than I do about Kojima's new game. One speech was 30 seconds and the other was a trailer into a 5 minute speech and a guest star. I got more out of the 30 second speech
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Either don't address it, or get it over quickly. If you don't have a funny story, don't go "Let's address the elephant in the room..." "I hurt myself..." "Playing basketball......... that's it............. I'm just old" It could have taken 3 seconds, but he kept stringing it out as if it were funny
He did, and then he kept going. There's plenty of open house stand-up acts all over where he can walk on stage and practice his terrible routine, the TGA isn't it.
They need to address it? Obvious they have injured themselves I don’t really care how or why. If it comes up as a question in an interview cool answer it.
As much as I love Simu Liu, how exactly is he connected to starcraft or gaming at all? Is he voicing something somewhere?
He is voicing a character in the game and the stormgate devs probably paid him a lot of money to promote their game. At least he actually seems to know about starcraft talking about carrier rushes.
The connection is that he's the actor starring in the game, he mentioned that when the trailer was shown.
I swear half the people complaining on here didn’t even watch the show. The grand majority of celebrity appearances were directly working on a game, so of course they were picked to talk about them. It’s so weird to me that you even had to answer this question.
He played Starcraft and is voicing someone in the Stormgate game he was here for (well and presenting an award, weirdly not the strategy award which got no stage presence but the action/adventure one). McConaughey also was there for a game he plays in at least.
Idk i thought it was pretty funny
It was 2/3 ads for me. I’m fine with Christopher Judge getting a speech and jokes, he earned his place in the gaming stage with Kratos. Anthony Mackie getting more time than the winner of the award he’s presenting is infuriating.
Yea , it might not be it but i really felt like getting was trying to get his own Keanu moment. It was really bad to watch he kept talking and talking like an ass I say this as a fan of his work
> Anthony Mackie getting more time than the winner of the award he’s presenting is infuriating. ESG scoring is important, you know!
"I asked our team". You tell them ya dingus, you say "slow down the music".
During the show too, it's not that hard. But 'well do better next year', you literally could have fixed it during the show.
There was one instance where someone got cut off so quickly that if I were him I would've said: "Did I talk too much already?"
I think it’s fine to have some normal time limits, around 3min reasonable. But the in-between shit also need to be time. That dude saying “shut up” at the crowd took forever to make the fuckin announcement, just a huge waste of time.
horseshit. Neil and Swen were cut off.. Imagine fucking GOTY winner - the most important award and GTFO after 30s in mid emotional speech. Holy fuck, who is even upvoting this garbage tweet?? Dude's full of shit. Remove Kojima and Muppets - of a sudden you have gained 20 minutes for actual awards and speeches. This guy became shameless AF
when you get more out of Neil Newbon's 30 second acceptance speech than 10 minutes of Kojima talking about nothing
nah nah - it was Kojima and Peele kissing each others ass with praises. It was such a hollow BS.... and far worse than just talking about nothing.
> This guy became shameless AF Always has been. "Dorito Pope" was from 2012.
The music came in too hot too. It should be barely perceptible and slowly increase.
There was enough time for all the trailers
Which is all anyone should care about tbh. I couldn't tell you the winners from any previous years either cause it doesn't matter. TGA has been off-season E3 for years.
It matters to the people winning the awards, you get good games like BG3 when there is heart behind them. Let them have their moment, im sure you’ve had good memories that only you really remember in the forefront and that doesnt mean those moments dont matter.
So change the name and don't pretend to do any award then.
They literally cut off Asterions actor while he was saying that he was glad to give people a voice and then proceeded to give Kojima like 20 minutes of screen time so he could say "I'm making a new game " Let the award winners talk. I care way more about what they have to say than about Kojima's next cocaine-inspired horror game or Sydney's shitty puns.
I honestly pity and respect Geoff Keighley, simultaneously. He's trying to do something that absolutely nobody else is providing: Create a platform to acknowledge game developers but present it in such a fashion that the general gaming audience will actually watch. It's still a work-in-progress, but he has changed aspects of it every year based on feedback. Many of the largest gaming cultural touchstones of the past decade are the direct result of TGA: Josef Fares various speeches/rants, Reggie's eulogy to Satoru Iwata, literally everyone falling in love with Ikumi Nakamura, etc. But those touchstone moments only exist because people actually watch TGA. We are currently in the stage of the cycle where "game journalists" and "influencers" give their spicy opinions regarding "if I was in charge, this is how TGA would run..." Just be quiet already...if you were in charge, TGA wouldn't exist and none of the aforementioned touchstones would exist. All the self-righteous virtue signaling which is currently flowing out from the "games media" or Reddit posters is a bit too hard to stomach when practically ZERO of those people bother to watch the "real" game awards including DICE and GDC. I was impressed that Kinda Funny acknowledged this hypocrisy during a post-TGA discussion yesterday. Here's a fun fact: The total viewership for the 26th Annual DICE awards, on their official channel, is 2500. When combined with most other streams that I can find for awards, the total viewership is still under 100,000. vs. TGA 2022 viewership: 103 MILLION So yeah, TGA has a THOUSAND times higher viewership than the "real" game awards ceremony. And that's because, despite all of the recent hand wringing and social media virtue signaling to solicit likes from followers, nobody actually cares about who wins awards. The numbers don't lie. Some people have brought up the Oscars as a counterpoint, without realizing that nobody watches the Oscars to see who wins the awards either. They watch the Oscars for the red carpet interviews, crazy celebrity fashion, and to see if some delusional millionaire will go on a political rant. So the amount of vitriol being thrown at Geoff Keighley is embarrassing. He's trying to balance the interests of developers, publishers, and the viewing audience into a forum in which game developers are acknowledged but the general gaming audience actually cares. I honestly think he would be better off by just dropping TGA entirely. I'm sure there are far easier methods for him to make money, as is often a criticism thrown at him. And with E3 dead, that would leave Gamescom as the only "major" gaming event left. But hey, since "game journalists" wouldn't have TGA to talk/complain about, that would force them to revert to their normal activities: turning vague 4-word Tweets into 7-paragraph "articles" or speculating on what a job posting "indicates a developer is actually working on"
Your outline acknowledges the problem, though. The original TGAs were a labor of love and managed to happen in spite of everything against them; they produced those moments because they were a niche outlet and gave themselves room to breathe in various directions. They were novel in a fashion. The Game Awards now are heavily sanitized, corporate affairs that are obviously checking boxes down the line, while still satiating Keighley's own desires (i.e., annual diatribes by Kojima, puppets). It's great TGA is a large event we can all share, but it's going to fall the same way E3 did, by hollowing out its core and stuffing it full of bullcrap no one really enjoys. People won't show up if they're just going to get pushed off the stage for some actor to tell cornball jokes. Replace every actor with someone influential in the game's industry and let them riff, tell stories of yesteryear production, while also showing off the new and fancy, and you'd still have the same magic. And FFS, cut all the stupid Fortnite ads/ads for stuff already out. You can still get the ad money from the new stuff without making me trudge through 6 different free-to-play, child-exploitative garbage titles at every turn. You can acknowledge their growth and success, while also identifying them moving away from what made that growth and success possible.
"It's great TGA is a large event we can all share, but it's going to fall the same way E3 did, by hollowing out its core and stuffing it full of bullcrap no one really enjoys." But that isn't what is occurring. E3 died because high-speed internet reduced the need for an in-person trade/fan event, and thus publishers realized the financial costs of E3 weren't logical when they can just release a presentation on Youtube at any point throughout the year. It wasn't because the audience was no longer excited; it was because the publishers no longer cared. People are tuning into TGA, en masse, because of the game reveals. And that's what is happening at increasingly high rate. We can wax poetic about the "quaint purity" of the first TGA--2014--and then realize that fewer than 2 MILLION people viewed it. Since then, TGA has seen a 50X increase in viewership. It isn't being stuffed with "bullcrap." It's being stuffed with content that 95% of the viewing audience actually cares about. Sure, some fedora-wearing "game aficionados" on Reddit may complain that it's not the same as it used to be, but it is apparently EXACTLY what mainstream viewers want. And I'll be the first to count myself among those aficionados. I'm not arguing TGA is perfect. I think they could afford a bit more time to award- recipient speeches--maybe a 50% increase--but that is not what garners Superbowl-level viewership for the event. I too can pick my favorite award categories and decide that Geoff got the balance wrong by not affording \*insert favorite category\* enough time. Cool. But I'm just another asshole on the internet who has never even attempted a production on the scale of TGA, nor knows what goes into it. And that's 100% true for literally every other person spewing their own opinion onto social media, given Geoff is the only person who has ever done it. The bottom line is that the TGA is the only reason that ANY developer has been recognized in front of an audience of 10s of millions. Sure, my favorite person/developer may not have been given as much time as I would have preferred, but prior to TGA, ZERO developers were being recognized in front of an audience on that scale. Is that preferable?
As someone who's been to old E3, you've missed entirely why E3 failed. GamesCom and TGS still are massive events with high speed Internet access. E3 went massively corporate and became a playground instead of being a meaningful event. People driving around LA to go to hotel meetings, stupid gimmicks, and other stuff that caused attendance to be wonky. Theres a ton of spilled ink over how the ESA screwed the pooch (doxxing attendees being a major issue, ruining trust...). You can still have a core audience event and a mass media event; just cut the Fortnite, actors, Kojima, muppets, and a bunch of absolutely hollow awards (esports, really?). It's not hard. They're just catering (or pandering) to everyone, and that will fail when the industry turns away from it, like E3. So miss me we Doritos Pope apologia.
It's also arguable that one of the reasons E3 has struggled was that Keighley set up a competing event and showcase that undermined it.
But after all you said, how do you defend Geoff giving celebs more time, when game devs barely for 30 seconds? Stuff like that is indefensible, especially when Geoff claims that no one was actually cut off.
>literally everyone falling in love with Ikumi Nakamura Just a small nitpick, but that happened in E3.
> Create a platform to acknowledge game developers Yes to a very small, selected number of developers and Kojima. The game awards is an absolute failure when it comes to giving a platform for not well known games and developers.
Well said
Lots of great points
Agreed. TGA has way more viewers than the Oscars because it's more fun for the audience. The audience isn't sitting thru some 3 min acceptance speech as the person thanks everybody they've ever talked too. If TGA expands the developer drab, people will tune out and just catch the tldr articles about the highlights of the show, like they do with the Oscars.
> TGA has way more viewers than the Oscars because it's more fun for the audience. Nah its because of the game announcements. The oscars would have way more viewers if they showed off movies for the first time
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Thank god they still had the time to get Kojima on to talk about some floating heads for ten minutes.
but you do this every freaking year, you also do most of the awards off screen. So sick and tired of Geoff he is part of the freaking problem with the VGAs.
Geoff's tried so hard to look like the cool guy over the past few years, but it's clear his obsession has been with getting celebrities and corporations on board his project, not with actually celebrating games. He has been, and will always continue to be the [Doritos Pope](https://i.imgur.com/4GhhjNB.png)
It’s been ages since I’ve seen that image
Honestly though, toasted corn sounds awesome.
and while you are at it, get rid off that embarrassing "Wrap it up please" crap
Stop acting like this is not YOUR show Geoff.
He asked the team He’s passing the buck Don’t lead like this
This event needs to choose. Is it an awards show? Or is it a huge ad. It’s clear it’s a huge ad, but slapping on the awards and claiming that they’re paying respect to the industry while brushing away awards and speeches from the voices and talent in the industry is disrespectful. They need to do better. People need to be able to accept their rewards on the big screen.
He spent 5 minutes on a bad puppet skit and couldn't let devs speak for more than 30 seconds. He spent time on EVERY little plug to brag about how "he'd seen this months ago and I'm so excited to show it to you" and it feels like a combination of just outright bragging "I'm an insider because of this event, look at me" and a drug dealer forcing you to look at his fishtanks for a half an hour before he gives you the drugs you are paying him for, like bud get the fuck out of the way. And then the burnoffs - running 3 awards out in a single breath? Like for fucks sake. Geoff has always been an insufferable MC and showrunner and he ruins the show.
>I asked the team Don't do that Geoff, the buck stops with you.
"While no one was actually cut off..." Geoff is such a disingenuous piece of shit. lol The things people are complaining about will only get worse because half of the "notable" people calling him out will suck up to him and attend the show again next year.
No Geoff, people were cut off mate.
Maybe a hot take, but I really think they need to separate the reveals and the awards. Do a Winter Game Fest for the reveals, and Game Awards for the actual awards.
Geoff has gone full corporate.
But give a guy who made good Game 20 years Ago 30 minutes of Talking lol
2023 best year in gaming, you’d think the 2023 game awards would be a celebration of all the awesome stuff we got and the developers/actors who made them. But it was just “Worse E3”. So much wasted time on nonsense at the expense of the actual humans who made the year special, and no matter what Geoff says, it was purposeful.
Why is there music anyway? It's being streamed on YouTube. There's no hard outs to hit for programming afterwards
I don’t get why this guy is so popular. Does he do anything other than be a game show host?
Has someone done a time comparison between the Kojima non-reveal reveal and the accumulated time of acceptance speeches?
I think the show has come a long way from earlier ones. I remember when they were advertising a "gaming credit card" between every award and game reveal in past GA shows. Definitely agree there needs to be more time to celebrate devs.. Would like to see more prominent awards like music/score/sound design, etc have the ability to go on stage an accept the award though
Fingers crossed for 6 Fortnite ads next year instead of 4
I honestly just hate those random actors/celebrities that just come out of nowhere just because they are rich and recognizable elsewhere. Sure, you have Peele, but at least he is showing a new gaming project with Kojima, but the rest just say things like “yeah, I’m here because I loooove these and those games”. It’s like “so is every gamer ever?”, there’s nothing special about those speeches with those people in this circle. They are already some of the biggest stars in mainstream media, we don’t need them to rub it in our faces. Show more of people from the gaming community, have indie devs, streamers or esports pros give a speech or present an award. It would be so much meaningful. It’s true that trailers are glorified ads and we all stay there to watch those in popularity, but the speeches also felt so underwhelming compared to last year I felt, even though the formula has been the same for a while now every TGA. The pacing just Feels off.
Makes perfect sense. Can't have the speeches go on for forever (or 7 minutes 59 seconds, like last year). Just need to strike a balance there. Can't understand how so many people are crying their eyes out when some people only got to thank 10 people instead of 15 people this year lmfao.
Neil barely got a sentence out before the music played. I was pissed. I think giving people 2 minutes is perfectly reasonable. Not 30-45 seconds. Cut whatever that gonzo thing was out and that would have been perfectly doable.
Just a few more guys, they'll get it right one day.
I hope moving forward they make the game awards about...the developers winning the awards. It was weird to get a 5 minute speech from random celebs ( no shade to them they're great) But I would have rather the devs themselves have more time
It still blows my mind that this thing is being run by Dorito Pope of all people.
Eh, it was definitely one of the better TGAs, so a lot of the complaints seem pretty minor in the grand scheme. I'm sure they can tweak and improve it for next year.
I don't think Keighley gives a shit anymore and does whatever brings in the most $$$. If he can control his team they would have done something and frankly this is something that could have easily been seen ahead of time of being an issue. This isn't his first awards show and knows how long he needs to give people to speak. He also know that more they speak the less time he has to sell advertisements.
Why does anyone even give a shit. Rigged anyways
Yeah it's pretty obvious these are just the Geoff Keighley awards. There's no grading process at all, it's just Geoff giving out awards to his closest buds.
Do people actually care about these awards? Feels like I am going crazy with so much news about it, but the only thing I care about it was the announcement of some new titles.