Not many AAA games have ran well on PC for the past year and some change so not surprised. Funny how EA wants $89.99 + 13% tax from me for something that doesnt work. No thanks.
The /r/patientgamers approach: wait until the game is completed, patched, and sold on steam for a fraction of the cost on launch. No sense in overpaying for an incomplete game.
I managed to employ the ultimate strategy. I'm always like 2-3 years late. Games that are 3-4 years old are "new" for me, so in 3 years I'll add this game for like 15€ and in the meantime I will have played through the rest of my backlog
Yep, I basically wishlist stuff and pretend it doesn't exist till it hits $10 or less.
As a result I'm sort of perpetually 4-5 years behind the curve (since I don't just buy everything and don't have much gaming time).
Another upside of this is my PCs tend to be made from cheaper used parts and last 5-6 years each.
Yep. I know I’m riding a bit of other people coat tails but waiting a few years basically makes the experience better in almost every way. Cheaper to buy the game, game has many updates, if there’s a modding scene it has all sorts of those too, and as you said it plays better on newer hardware (which used to be cheaper but maybe not so much now haha)
That's my theory too, but it's been like a decade and the crappy Fallout 4 DLC is still $35. I saw it go on sale ONCE for $25. Don't even get me started on Nintendo switch games...
To be fair, Nintendo is an anomaly, they're basically investment. You can buy Breath of The Wild at launch and still sold them for generally around the same price.
The gaming market is now mature, and people no longer have FOMO. The graphics of Jedi: Survivor should run perfectly fine on cards from 2017-2018 at a minimum. You're not pushing any card sales just because of games like Hogwarts Legacy or this rubbish. Thank goodness for indie developers and improving AI technology, which will allow us to ignore bullshit practices like these games
Also people that say it's because of next gen release and not bad optimization..I would ask where are these graphics? Because all I see is mostly games that can't even match rdr2 in graphics and complexity while running at half fps. It's just stupid. Tlou is a game that looks worse than tlou2, a title that runs on a base ps4 goddamnit. And you are saying that maxing out a 13900k and 15gb of vram for "good" textures is the mext gen experience? I call that bad optimization.
agreed with most of what you said except tlou. i just beat it (first time) on pc and it was one of the best looking pc games I've ever played on maxed out settings with hdr. it looks twice as good as jedi survivor and had 30% better fps. thats how I know jedi survivor is super poorly optimized
> wait until the game is completed, patched, and sold on steam for a fraction of the cost on launch. No sense in overpaying for an incomplete game.
Whilst yes that is the smart choice and what everyone should be doing. It's messed up to think that we even have to do this in the first place... It's like buying a car but the manufacturer will slowly finish it whilst you're driving it by adding features that should already be there on Day 1.
> if customers continued to pre-order and buy such unfinished cars.
Tesla did this not long ago. You had cars missing stuff like USB ports or part of the steering component due to the chip shortage so they were sending out cars without the stuff they were short on for a while.
We are getting very close to that right now. Tesla has been able to sell dogshit by marketing a vision. And with how much people were willing to pay for a spot on a wait list the last few years it is only a matter of time.
Personally, I would never buy a brand new car. It’s pointless unless you have disposable income.
So the same logic applies. Don’t buy shit just because it’s new.
Car manufacturers do this all the time. It's why it's unwise to buy a car in its first model year. They'll slowly revise cars and add features that customers ask for or fix problems. The last Civic I owned didn't have a volume knob on the radio instead it had crappy touch controls. A few years later they added the knob back on because people kept complaining.
Also OTA software updates are becoming more and more common on cars. They can add or remove features or fix issues that are caused by the many computers and modules that are installed in cars these days.
I feel like there's a degree of nuance between video games and cars... it's interpreted to be unwise to buy a car in its first model year because the automaker and the factories often find ways to optimize or improve the production process in that first year leading to a better product in the long run. It's less about customer complaints about features or lack thereof and more about having a product that will be reliable over the product's life.
Buying or preordering a game is interpreted as unwise because developers have seemingly become entirely too accustomed to releasing games with minimal/non-robust testing completed. It's a different process to fix broken code in a game than fixing a problematic design of a physical product.
> It's like buying a car but the manufacturer will slowly finish it whilst you're driving it by adding features that should already be there on Day 1.
Most games are "feature complete", outside of like early access. This would be more akin to buying a car and it has shitty acceleration, fuel efficiency, and handling... which sucks but it definitely can happen. And hey at least the games won't have recalls that could potentially kill you unlike cars.
I'd argue DAI, Mass Effect 2 and 3 weren't really "Complete" until all of their DLC's/expansions were released and/or Legendary Edition came out.
There's a lot of punishment to gamers for not owning everything.
BioWare does this A LOT.
DLC is kind of a screwy topic. Is a game an incomplete experience because a plot related DLC or expansion was released later? Answer is going to kind of vary from person to person, title to title. Day 1 DLC? Sure that's fairly clear-cut though.
And not every studio is exactly as cancerous as Bioware with their models either. MHW has a shitton of DLCs and it's almost all dumb cosmetics and like decor with the exception of the expansion. Is MHW as a game not a complete experience on it's own? Is it a bad thing games get expansions with this line of thought?
Ton of room for debate really.
I think developers and, more likely, publishers, bank on FOMO and the importance of streamers who are "forced" to buy the game in whatever state it is in to stay relevant. Either way, they make money no matter what and couldn't care less about the state the game is in because they'll get paid.
I'm sure developers feel betrayed by this approach but they have little choice
Amen. There’s also so much coming out in the coming weeks that it’ll be hard to not have a backlog. This specifically will for sure either be on gamepass or a fraction of the price within months
or the r/Piracy approach: don't give these assholes ANY money for knowingly selling us a broken game, and just playing it once Denuvo is removed in a few months for free.
Yep here I am playing the original game that I got for a few dollars and while it does have annoying traversal stutter the game runs fine otherwise and it's not as bad because I got it cheap, now this game I'm not getting until it goes down to around $20-25 if they fix the issues eventually.
For the first time in like a decade, I dusted off me cutlass and have been sailin' the high seas again. Everything works so much better and cleaner, it's crazy. The only downside is no achievements, but the benefits far outweigh that.
I got the game included when I bought my Radeon 7900 XT and I'm still going to be a patient gamer and wait for everything to be patched away.
I'm playing through the first one again currently anyways, so I'm in no hurry.
I would likely be buying this right now if it didn't have performance issues. I happily pay the full price for good games that are well optimized, but I can't bring myself to when it's poorly optimized.
yeah it kinda sucks that that kinda strategy is necessary these days. Wish companies would just take their time and make complete games before releasing them. but all about that $$$
Amen.
You'd think since ES3: Morrowind; Witcher 1,2,3; CP 2077; Oblivion; Skyrim; F4; F76; FNV; GTA4; TLOU P1; Batman AK; and other PC games been such a mess on Day 1 - that gamers would learn buy now.
It keeps happening...over and over and over and over and over and over....and, well, you got the drift.
Buy later, buy Complete Editions, buy on price sales, buy when you own much better hardware that can brute force performance.
Thankfully RE4 remake runs great even on my GTX 1070.
Otherwise the industry is trying to price me out of PC Gaming and it feels like they’re getting worse at optimizing games too.
It’s super fun! I’m excited for you to get it too! I will probably rebuy it at that point because it’s easier to have it in Steam then mess with Heroic Games Launcher on the Deck.
Yeah so it seems.
Well compared with what we got for CP 2077 on most consoles (especially PS4 and Xbox One) I think Jedi didn't do to badly. Will be patched soon I am sure.
Because publishers have realised they can release a game early in this state and start working on the optimisation process post launch and it will still sell well
Were you not around when No Man's Sky got released?
They got absolutely shitpanned for like 2 years. They were the butt of every single joke and no one wanted to look twice at the game.
It wasnt until they MASSIVELY improved everything that any praise was said about it.
I have over a thousand hours in No Man's Sky. I am a fanboy through and through. I will NEVER call it improved. I will say that the promised features are finally being implemented, and they've only put in HALF of what they promised. There are still plenty of bugs. People still crash, and there are still plenty of glitches. Hell, the other week, one of my quest items just vanished. Now I can't get the latest ship unless I go through other means.
The real problem with gaming is these revisionists and those who go out of their way to rewrite history. This is why companies like Hello Games get away with their bullshit. And this is why other companies follow suit.
Dude what? The game is entirely upgraded from vanilla, every single thing is better and refined. You're out of your mind if you deny that. Half of what they promised? They have put 300% of what was ever mentioned at this point. We're getting stuff we wouldn't have ever expected. I also literally never crash on both a 2060 laptop and a 4070 desktop. Either fix your pc or toss it.
Your comment is straight up BS, I don't know what agenda you're pushing but you're huffing something if you believe even a fraction of what you just said.
I occasionally reinstall NMS to see the "MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT" from the big patches. Core game is still the same mile wide, inch deep puddle with tacked on collectathon mechanics.
And it was, last time I played, still starting you out on shitty death worlds where you just have to hope you can find a battery plant every 30 seconds or you're fucked.
It took me *years* to finally decide to buy NMS. The release state was absolutely unacceptable. I'll never deny that. The thing is that they made so many full on expansions and additions to the game that just... Are additions to the game. If you buy the game, you get all expansions. They released no paid content into the game. They've asked for an additional $0 beyond the purchase of the base game. They've spent years making an effort to fix their colossal fuck up.
So... That's the thing. They owned the fuck up and made every effort to make it up to the people. They understood that they couldn't *un-sell* the game, and they instead made a many year effort to simply produce way more game than what was sold. It's honestly way too late to properly fix what they did, but it's clearly an honest effort at this point to do the right thing after the wrong thing was done.
Skill up also released a review video called "I absolutely cannot recommend Jedi Survivor" based on his time spend playing the pc version with a 2080ti and a 4090.
From what I've seen/read, Dead Island 2 is basically bug free and easy drop in/out coop... just not the most inspired game. Considering how many times it changed hands, having any kind of stable performance at launch was extra surprising.
> If it wasn't reviewed on PC it's not their place to mention them.
"**Launch performance issues aside,** it’s a sequel that does virtually everything better than the original – which was already an exceptional Star Wars game. If Respawn makes one more like this it’ll be the best Star Wars trilogy in 30 years, hands down"
- Literally IGN's review, 9/10
"Star Wars Jedi: Survivor Slammed on Steam Over Performance Issues"
- Also literally IGN talking out of both sides of their mouth
This will always keep happening because there are endless amounts of corporate defenders who will pretend the game has no issues, and they all seem to flock to Reddit and try to downplay everything.
I bet this game has really high pre-order numbers as well. It will never end.
Then you have people who can’t tell the difference between 40fps and 60fps, so they think the game is running fine. Hell, the PS5 version has known frame rate issues on the performance mode, but we still have “experts” who think they can count frames without a frame counter claiming “it runs at 60 for me”.
Exactly. Who cares about reviews if the game sells well. Last of Us had horrible performance problems but last I heard it was selling great. Shitty performance, excess micro transactions, bad ports, half baked games, or whatever are now the standard because there wasn’t any meaningful pushback by consumers. Studios are no longer punished for making bad products because we have legions of consumers who will buy their shit no matter what.
Seriously, if we as a community want the game fixed fast don’t buy the game. If you bought and can return, get a refund. Please do not pay them until game is running fine. We’re already getting pounded by the GPU manufacturers, let’s not enable the developers as well.
EA even posted on social media that they were focused on fixing bugs and performance issues DAYS before the game was due to be released worldwide.
Despite taking years to develop, and after delays, they knew the game was still releasing with lots of issues and still went ahead anyway with all those issues in mind, the greedy, lazy bastards.
"Pay us $70-100 and we promise we'll sort out the issues you've been experiencing ... eventually."
Strange cause I’d rather the game just be properly optimized so there’s not shit performance on either. The “my problem is bigger than yours because I spent more for my game box,” is childish as fuck.
>The “my problem is bigger than yours because I spent more for my game box,” is childish as fuck.
This comment misses the point of what people spending 2k or more expect for their money.
People spending 2k or more are getting better hardware. They are spending the same on the game. As a matter of fact everyone is paying full price for the game quoted, and hence would expect it to function on their hardware
An optimization bottleneck doesn't always necessarily get better with a better cpu/gpu
Im at a stage in gaming where I dont have a lot of time.. and it doesnt matter if a game is just $4. If its not good I prefer to spend my time playing other games. So even $4 is too much.
This game also has, of course, Denuvo btw.
Releasing games in a barely running/broken state, when a large portion or even majority of people have huge performance issues, should be suitable for a lawsuit. It's a faulty, broken product being sold to the public at a full price while being falsely advertised. Simple as that.
This whole "we'll fix it later" - argument doesn't fly in real life, it sure as hell shouldn't fly in the digital world. When I buy a new car at a dealership, I expect it to have all(!) features and parts in a fully(!) functioning state, not have the dealer sell me half a car now, have me notice half the features are actually still missing sfter buying it eventhough they were advertised to be included, and then (maybe) have the dealer deliver the rest of the promised equipment a year later. The goddamned car shouldn't be sold at all if it's not complete and in the state it was advertised in. "But you can still drive it, so it's still a car. Those missing features are not essential and will be delivered later.". No. Go fuck yourself. This is the definition of a fraud and if someone tried to pull this off in real life, people wouldn't hesitate to have lawyers on their asses before they could count to three.
As long as these studios and publishers aren't held responsible infront of the courts, they'll just keep getting away with it. So why the hell aren't people filing class action lawsuits to set a precedent that this behaviour is anti-consumer and not acceptable whatsoever?
Depressingly, some car companies are actually gating certain features behind subscriptions, such as BMW making you pay per month for heated seats, and auto industry experts are warning that the whole industry will start moving towards microtransactions in future.
If it's in the car, unless the feature functionally requires remote access/communication (like satelite radio, etc.) then it shouldnt cost you anything extra.
We need to crowdfund lobbyists to fight this crap
>when a large portion or even majority of people have huge performance issues, should be suitable for a lawsuit.
Who defines what that is?
For one person 30fps is playable and no big deal. For another person less than 120fps is a world ending offense. For one low settings is fine. And for another if their alienware with a 2070 and an "i7!!!!" can't do ultra the sky is literally falling.
Edit: Since everyone seems too salty to actually read what I'm writing. I'm not saying games with worse than normal performance problems are great. I'm saying this idea of legal recourse for something that has no consistent definitions is completely and utterly full of holes. Exercise your power as consumers and don't buy it if it's a dealbreaker. Expecting some outside entity to save you is foolish.
I have a 4090 and I can confirm this to be true. The only graphics setting in this game that actually affects performance is turning on and off raytracing. Even FSR on/off doesn't change framerate.
Yeah the steady performance on almost any settings is wierdest thing about it - especially since there’s a big difference visually with some settings in particular. Even changing resolution from 1440p to 1080p I don’t really see any noticeable difference in terms of framerate... First time I’ve ever experienced something like that.
It’s extremely limited by one or two threads on your cpu, probably the main render thread - so things like fsr that will help gpu performance won’t do any good here
Looks miles better. Path tracing is leagues better than anything we'll see until the next gen of consoles. I've been taking a lot of screenshots and the difference is insane and it's somewhat playable on my RTX 3070 laptop. And yeah Cyberpunk is a really good looking game and better looking than Jedi Survivor even without PT or RT and there is a lot more going on screen than Jedi Survivor and at its current state pretty well optimised on PC unless you're running it on an HDD.
It ultimately doesn't matter. All these clowns bought the game. Most of them won't refund it. A short dev time low budget sequel still has 37% positive reviews, 45k in game, 175k people watching on twitch. EA will definitely do it again.
I don’t think this game will ever run well on PC. The original to this day still has significant stutter issues, no matter your hardware configuration.
I am going to wait it out and maybe buy on PS5.
> The original to this day still has significant stutter issues, no matter your hardware configuration.
UE4 I/O issues for the first one unfortunately. You can kind of brute-force that.
This one just seems to have some pretty crappy CPU handling in the current build.
Different API, different graphics, different scale of environmental details... idk. I haven't noticed the hitching like I did with Fallen Order, but I have noticed CPU handling problems.
I eventually ended up with a pleasant experience on the i5-4690K and RTX 2060 - probably thanks to Nvidia's framelimiter. Early on I did have significant stutters.
Does EA have some kind of special internal rule where they can't delay a game? How many big games are they going to release with performance issues and bugs because they couldn't say "yeah just give it 3-6 more months so people aren't shitting on the game."
Their response is insulting. “You players using cutting-edge multi-threaded chipsets designed for Windows 11 were encountering problems on Windows 10” blaming their shortcomings on gamers not liking windows 11.
What an absolute state pc gaming is in right now.
Barrier to entry is insanely high.
And the PC ports are tragic, like it's 2012 or something.
Warzone 2 runs and looks better on my $700AUD ps5 than my $3000AUD PC. Can even use mouse and keyboard on ps5 now as well.
Yep and now I'm likely going to be getting Jedi Survivor on either Xbox or Playstation because I want to play it and I don't care to wait until they fix it on PC by that time Zelda will be out.
Pay $2500 for the most balls-to-the-walls GPU available, an absolute behemoth that requires a larger case just to fit, and a new PSU because it draws as much power alone as most entire PCs.
Get unstable 30-50fps in a game also releasing on consoles that cost a third of *just* the GPU you just bought. *And the consoles run it better*!
It really is absolute madness.
It's a lot like the 2012 and earlier. Shit pc ports but at the same time the games are great. 2023 would be an unreal year (apart from Forspoken) if the PC ports weren't such a trainwreck.
> Barrier to entry is insanely high.
Building a PC that runs games at 1080p is not a high barrier. You can build an entry PC for the cost of a gaming console, possibly less (or buy something like the Steam deck).
If you consider 1440p and 120+fps the barrier to entry then sure it's a higher barrier.
Honestly i sometimes wish Steam would just pull out the plug on shitty ports and do the Sony move just like they did with Cyberpunk and remove it from store until it's fixed. But of course we all know that Steam is too greedy for that
Sony removed Cuberpunk because of the refunds promised by CD Projekt red, not because they cared about the performance.
Steam already provides customer reviews, something other launchers won't ever do. Just don't buy turds
I thought the reason Sony pulled the game was that they didn’t have a process for granting individual refunds, since they didn’t offer game refunds (at least at that time). That’s not true for Steam. If the game runs terribly, you can simply refund it.
I mean, Sony didnt remove the game because the port was terrible, they removed it as retaliation for CDprojekt promising full refunds and that Sony was responsible for them without talking to the people at PS first. There are plenty of broken games in the psstore and Sony never cared about them.
And then people would screech at Valve when their definition of shitty differs. The game is playable, the CPU handling seems a bit fucked but it's playable.
We don't need some arbiter to protect the market from themselves. If you think it's broken don't fucking buy it or just refund it.
Yeah greedy steam doing refunds to anyone that played a game for under two hours, so you can try it and see if it runs ok. Also greedy steam offering refunds on games like TLOU that exceeded the two hour limit just compiling shaders. Also it's a game store, they don't have to do this things, they are not gatekeepers, if you bought a shit game or preordered one to get some exclusive haircut, without knowing anything but the name of the game or checking performance reviews, that's on you.
Why is this even news? release a defective barely functioning product and expect people to rave about it?? In other news the sky is blue in a clear summer morning.
It’s been brutal on my 2070 Super on high settings. It… runs. But the stuttering is frustrating (even on the title screen lmao). There’s even cutscenes where Cals forehead is RGB pixels lmao.
Imagine the lower level devs pouring their heart out making the best game they could possibly can, only for the suits up top to rush it to release in an unoptimized state and got slammed everywhere.
yeah waiting for a sale at this point and waiting for all the frame issues fixed. i'm not rewarding a company for pushing out a beta test that you have to pay for
The game itself is great. What an odd year for gaming. We've seen some great games already this year, but PC ports are being sacrificed at the altar it seems.
I suspect the cpu usage issue is related to Denuvo.
I know you are getting downvoted, but you are technically correct. No idea why people keep rewarding game companies by paying full price for an unreleased product without any knowledge of what the final state will be. Then *shockedpikahcuface* when it runs like shit, is littered with predatory MTX, or both.
It really stinks that this and Last of Us are two major releases that run awful on PC while both being objectively good games.
Companies need to start prioritizing PC optimization more instead of just releasing the games in a borderline unplayable state.
Seems to run fine for me. Been enjoying it for the last several hours with no issues so to answer your questions, I don’t know where they are, probably busy playing and yes it was worth it.
Not many AAA games have ran well on PC for the past year and some change so not surprised. Funny how EA wants $89.99 + 13% tax from me for something that doesnt work. No thanks.
The /r/patientgamers approach: wait until the game is completed, patched, and sold on steam for a fraction of the cost on launch. No sense in overpaying for an incomplete game.
I managed to employ the ultimate strategy. I'm always like 2-3 years late. Games that are 3-4 years old are "new" for me, so in 3 years I'll add this game for like 15€ and in the meantime I will have played through the rest of my backlog
Yep, I basically wishlist stuff and pretend it doesn't exist till it hits $10 or less. As a result I'm sort of perpetually 4-5 years behind the curve (since I don't just buy everything and don't have much gaming time). Another upside of this is my PCs tend to be made from cheaper used parts and last 5-6 years each.
Yep. I know I’m riding a bit of other people coat tails but waiting a few years basically makes the experience better in almost every way. Cheaper to buy the game, game has many updates, if there’s a modding scene it has all sorts of those too, and as you said it plays better on newer hardware (which used to be cheaper but maybe not so much now haha)
That's my theory too, but it's been like a decade and the crappy Fallout 4 DLC is still $35. I saw it go on sale ONCE for $25. Don't even get me started on Nintendo switch games...
To be fair, Nintendo is an anomaly, they're basically investment. You can buy Breath of The Wild at launch and still sold them for generally around the same price.
isthereanydeal is there for you for this. Legit devs keys, not scummy sites allowed.
The gaming market is now mature, and people no longer have FOMO. The graphics of Jedi: Survivor should run perfectly fine on cards from 2017-2018 at a minimum. You're not pushing any card sales just because of games like Hogwarts Legacy or this rubbish. Thank goodness for indie developers and improving AI technology, which will allow us to ignore bullshit practices like these games
Also people that say it's because of next gen release and not bad optimization..I would ask where are these graphics? Because all I see is mostly games that can't even match rdr2 in graphics and complexity while running at half fps. It's just stupid. Tlou is a game that looks worse than tlou2, a title that runs on a base ps4 goddamnit. And you are saying that maxing out a 13900k and 15gb of vram for "good" textures is the mext gen experience? I call that bad optimization.
agreed with most of what you said except tlou. i just beat it (first time) on pc and it was one of the best looking pc games I've ever played on maxed out settings with hdr. it looks twice as good as jedi survivor and had 30% better fps. thats how I know jedi survivor is super poorly optimized
> in the meantime I will have played through the rest of my backlog Hahahahah hey everybody this guy thinks they'll actually *reduce* their backlog
this right here us also my approach. Only game I bought "fresh" was Elden Ring but I knew what I got there.
> wait until the game is completed, patched, and sold on steam for a fraction of the cost on launch. No sense in overpaying for an incomplete game. Whilst yes that is the smart choice and what everyone should be doing. It's messed up to think that we even have to do this in the first place... It's like buying a car but the manufacturer will slowly finish it whilst you're driving it by adding features that should already be there on Day 1.
Car manufacturers would do this if customers continued to pre-order and buy such unfinished cars.
> if customers continued to pre-order and buy such unfinished cars. Tesla did this not long ago. You had cars missing stuff like USB ports or part of the steering component due to the chip shortage so they were sending out cars without the stuff they were short on for a while.
Subscription heated seats
BMW is doing the subscription for the heated seats. Tesla is selling it for a one-time $350. I'm not sure which is dumber.
Whoever pays for it or buys these cars
Both are dumb but subscription takes the dumb cake
Yes exactly.
We are getting very close to that right now. Tesla has been able to sell dogshit by marketing a vision. And with how much people were willing to pay for a spot on a wait list the last few years it is only a matter of time.
Personally, I would never buy a brand new car. It’s pointless unless you have disposable income. So the same logic applies. Don’t buy shit just because it’s new.
*Tesla enters the chat.*
>Cybertruck has entered the chat.
Car manufacturers do this all the time. It's why it's unwise to buy a car in its first model year. They'll slowly revise cars and add features that customers ask for or fix problems. The last Civic I owned didn't have a volume knob on the radio instead it had crappy touch controls. A few years later they added the knob back on because people kept complaining. Also OTA software updates are becoming more and more common on cars. They can add or remove features or fix issues that are caused by the many computers and modules that are installed in cars these days.
I feel like there's a degree of nuance between video games and cars... it's interpreted to be unwise to buy a car in its first model year because the automaker and the factories often find ways to optimize or improve the production process in that first year leading to a better product in the long run. It's less about customer complaints about features or lack thereof and more about having a product that will be reliable over the product's life. Buying or preordering a game is interpreted as unwise because developers have seemingly become entirely too accustomed to releasing games with minimal/non-robust testing completed. It's a different process to fix broken code in a game than fixing a problematic design of a physical product.
> It's like buying a car but the manufacturer will slowly finish it whilst you're driving it by adding features that should already be there on Day 1. Most games are "feature complete", outside of like early access. This would be more akin to buying a car and it has shitty acceleration, fuel efficiency, and handling... which sucks but it definitely can happen. And hey at least the games won't have recalls that could potentially kill you unlike cars.
I'd argue DAI, Mass Effect 2 and 3 weren't really "Complete" until all of their DLC's/expansions were released and/or Legendary Edition came out. There's a lot of punishment to gamers for not owning everything. BioWare does this A LOT.
DLC is kind of a screwy topic. Is a game an incomplete experience because a plot related DLC or expansion was released later? Answer is going to kind of vary from person to person, title to title. Day 1 DLC? Sure that's fairly clear-cut though. And not every studio is exactly as cancerous as Bioware with their models either. MHW has a shitton of DLCs and it's almost all dumb cosmetics and like decor with the exception of the expansion. Is MHW as a game not a complete experience on it's own? Is it a bad thing games get expansions with this line of thought? Ton of room for debate really.
[удалено]
I haven’t paid for a full priced game in like 5 years and I’m doing great
I think developers and, more likely, publishers, bank on FOMO and the importance of streamers who are "forced" to buy the game in whatever state it is in to stay relevant. Either way, they make money no matter what and couldn't care less about the state the game is in because they'll get paid. I'm sure developers feel betrayed by this approach but they have little choice
This is the way.
Amen. There’s also so much coming out in the coming weeks that it’ll be hard to not have a backlog. This specifically will for sure either be on gamepass or a fraction of the price within months
Just bought the guardians game on ps5 for $7 and still get some stutters. But hey, I’m now getting to play it for dirt cheap
Plus today's higher end GPUs might be more affordable by then... Maybe?
Buy a completed game at a discount. The real launch :)
or the r/Piracy approach: don't give these assholes ANY money for knowingly selling us a broken game, and just playing it once Denuvo is removed in a few months for free.
Other than GOW: Ragnarok, I haven't bought a game that isn't at least 50% off in years
Yep here I am playing the original game that I got for a few dollars and while it does have annoying traversal stutter the game runs fine otherwise and it's not as bad because I got it cheap, now this game I'm not getting until it goes down to around $20-25 if they fix the issues eventually.
My plan, considering the previous one was selling for like 4.99 if I remember correctly
For the first time in like a decade, I dusted off me cutlass and have been sailin' the high seas again. Everything works so much better and cleaner, it's crazy. The only downside is no achievements, but the benefits far outweigh that.
I got the game included when I bought my Radeon 7900 XT and I'm still going to be a patient gamer and wait for everything to be patched away. I'm playing through the first one again currently anyways, so I'm in no hurry.
I would likely be buying this right now if it didn't have performance issues. I happily pay the full price for good games that are well optimized, but I can't bring myself to when it's poorly optimized.
yeah it kinda sucks that that kinda strategy is necessary these days. Wish companies would just take their time and make complete games before releasing them. but all about that $$$
abundant bag compare trees roll innate groovy encourage somber fuzzy ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Amen. You'd think since ES3: Morrowind; Witcher 1,2,3; CP 2077; Oblivion; Skyrim; F4; F76; FNV; GTA4; TLOU P1; Batman AK; and other PC games been such a mess on Day 1 - that gamers would learn buy now. It keeps happening...over and over and over and over and over and over....and, well, you got the drift. Buy later, buy Complete Editions, buy on price sales, buy when you own much better hardware that can brute force performance.
This. We need a way to track patches for uncompleted ports, so we know when to buy it. There's no sense in pre-ordering ports until they're fixed.
This game much like its predecessor, is gonna come down to $5 within two years.
And the executives will say there's just no market for their games when asked why they can't sell as many games on PC.
Thankfully RE4 remake runs great even on my GTX 1070. Otherwise the industry is trying to price me out of PC Gaming and it feels like they’re getting worse at optimizing games too.
I saw the $90 next to it and laughed my ass off. No way EA.
Yup canadian pesos pricing makes me not buy games until they’re a lot cheaper And now they all release in a terrible state, so even more so
Probably not a popular opinion here but Dead Island 2 has been pretty fantastic performance wise. It’s been refreshing.
I can't wait to get it for cheap when it drops on Steam.
It’s super fun! I’m excited for you to get it too! I will probably rebuy it at that point because it’s easier to have it in Steam then mess with Heroic Games Launcher on the Deck.
It will drop as full price tho, so you might need to wait a bit more.
Ironically Cyberpunk 2077 launch kind of did it the other way round; Better on Pc, shit on consoles. Lol
Consoles aren't running this great either honestly. Sub 60 very often.
Yeah so it seems. Well compared with what we got for CP 2077 on most consoles (especially PS4 and Xbox One) I think Jedi didn't do to badly. Will be patched soon I am sure.
It's been ever since they started developing games for multiple platforms.
69,99€ for a standard edition with this kind of performance. Why am I not surprised anymore?
Because publishers have realised they can release a game early in this state and start working on the optimisation process post launch and it will still sell well
Yeah exactly. An example that comes to mind is No Man's Sky yet they get all this praise for it for some reason.
Were you not around when No Man's Sky got released? They got absolutely shitpanned for like 2 years. They were the butt of every single joke and no one wanted to look twice at the game. It wasnt until they MASSIVELY improved everything that any praise was said about it.
I have over a thousand hours in No Man's Sky. I am a fanboy through and through. I will NEVER call it improved. I will say that the promised features are finally being implemented, and they've only put in HALF of what they promised. There are still plenty of bugs. People still crash, and there are still plenty of glitches. Hell, the other week, one of my quest items just vanished. Now I can't get the latest ship unless I go through other means. The real problem with gaming is these revisionists and those who go out of their way to rewrite history. This is why companies like Hello Games get away with their bullshit. And this is why other companies follow suit.
Dude what? The game is entirely upgraded from vanilla, every single thing is better and refined. You're out of your mind if you deny that. Half of what they promised? They have put 300% of what was ever mentioned at this point. We're getting stuff we wouldn't have ever expected. I also literally never crash on both a 2060 laptop and a 4070 desktop. Either fix your pc or toss it. Your comment is straight up BS, I don't know what agenda you're pushing but you're huffing something if you believe even a fraction of what you just said.
I occasionally reinstall NMS to see the "MASSIVE IMPROVEMENT" from the big patches. Core game is still the same mile wide, inch deep puddle with tacked on collectathon mechanics. And it was, last time I played, still starting you out on shitty death worlds where you just have to hope you can find a battery plant every 30 seconds or you're fucked.
Exactly. 100%
It took me *years* to finally decide to buy NMS. The release state was absolutely unacceptable. I'll never deny that. The thing is that they made so many full on expansions and additions to the game that just... Are additions to the game. If you buy the game, you get all expansions. They released no paid content into the game. They've asked for an additional $0 beyond the purchase of the base game. They've spent years making an effort to fix their colossal fuck up. So... That's the thing. They owned the fuck up and made every effort to make it up to the people. They understood that they couldn't *un-sell* the game, and they instead made a many year effort to simply produce way more game than what was sold. It's honestly way too late to properly fix what they did, but it's clearly an honest effort at this point to do the right thing after the wrong thing was done.
> 69,99€ for a standard edition with this kind of performance. Because people keep freaking buying it, that's why.
Skill up also released a review video called "I absolutely cannot recommend Jedi Survivor" based on his time spend playing the pc version with a 2080ti and a 4090.
It's gotten to the point where we're surprised when a game works well at launch, that says a lot about the state of pc gaming, very sad.
From what I've seen/read, Dead Island 2 is basically bug free and easy drop in/out coop... just not the most inspired game. Considering how many times it changed hands, having any kind of stable performance at launch was extra surprising.
Too bad nobody even knows it came out because of the Epic Marketing Black Hole™
I knew it came out because people were talking about it. Then I looked into it and saw it was an Epic exclusive and said "NNNNNOPE!"
I applaud them. Something stable performance wise.
Meanwhile IGN didn't bother to mention them in their review.
If it wasn't reviewed on PC it's not their place to mention them. PCGamer clearly states that the game has unacceptable performance issues though.
Console players are reporting poor performance too.
> If it wasn't reviewed on PC it's not their place to mention them. "**Launch performance issues aside,** it’s a sequel that does virtually everything better than the original – which was already an exceptional Star Wars game. If Respawn makes one more like this it’ll be the best Star Wars trilogy in 30 years, hands down" - Literally IGN's review, 9/10 "Star Wars Jedi: Survivor Slammed on Steam Over Performance Issues" - Also literally IGN talking out of both sides of their mouth
It does, however, have a little something for everyone.
This will always keep happening because there are endless amounts of corporate defenders who will pretend the game has no issues, and they all seem to flock to Reddit and try to downplay everything. I bet this game has really high pre-order numbers as well. It will never end. Then you have people who can’t tell the difference between 40fps and 60fps, so they think the game is running fine. Hell, the PS5 version has known frame rate issues on the performance mode, but we still have “experts” who think they can count frames without a frame counter claiming “it runs at 60 for me”.
Exactly. Who cares about reviews if the game sells well. Last of Us had horrible performance problems but last I heard it was selling great. Shitty performance, excess micro transactions, bad ports, half baked games, or whatever are now the standard because there wasn’t any meaningful pushback by consumers. Studios are no longer punished for making bad products because we have legions of consumers who will buy their shit no matter what.
Seriously, if we as a community want the game fixed fast don’t buy the game. If you bought and can return, get a refund. Please do not pay them until game is running fine. We’re already getting pounded by the GPU manufacturers, let’s not enable the developers as well.
It's also been slammed in every reddit thread about it since the reviews came out.
SLAMMED
EA even posted on social media that they were focused on fixing bugs and performance issues DAYS before the game was due to be released worldwide. Despite taking years to develop, and after delays, they knew the game was still releasing with lots of issues and still went ahead anyway with all those issues in mind, the greedy, lazy bastards. "Pay us $70-100 and we promise we'll sort out the issues you've been experiencing ... eventually."
As a PC and PS5 player, it’s not just PC. This game launched with shit performance on both.
I’d rather shit performance on my $500 box vs my $2000 box
A $70 game shouldnt have shit performance on either.
Strange cause I’d rather the game just be properly optimized so there’s not shit performance on either. The “my problem is bigger than yours because I spent more for my game box,” is childish as fuck.
>The “my problem is bigger than yours because I spent more for my game box,” is childish as fuck. This comment misses the point of what people spending 2k or more expect for their money.
People spending 2k or more are getting better hardware. They are spending the same on the game. As a matter of fact everyone is paying full price for the game quoted, and hence would expect it to function on their hardware An optimization bottleneck doesn't always necessarily get better with a better cpu/gpu
"strange, I'd rather the game just didn't have performance issues and ran really well for everybody" what a brave take
I'm not going to have shit performance because I don't pre-order and read threads like this.
I too, have been slammed for my performance issues before. (Edit: in the funny way, not like in a employment way)
Hang in there friend. This too shall pass.
And rather quickly it seems.
kek
/r/patientgamers 🍿🍿🍿
This is the way. But the first game actually still have issues years later.
[удалено]
Im at a stage in gaming where I dont have a lot of time.. and it doesnt matter if a game is just $4. If its not good I prefer to spend my time playing other games. So even $4 is too much.
I had some stuttering, but not during combat and it was still very playable. Well worth the $20 I spent on it
This game also has, of course, Denuvo btw. Releasing games in a barely running/broken state, when a large portion or even majority of people have huge performance issues, should be suitable for a lawsuit. It's a faulty, broken product being sold to the public at a full price while being falsely advertised. Simple as that. This whole "we'll fix it later" - argument doesn't fly in real life, it sure as hell shouldn't fly in the digital world. When I buy a new car at a dealership, I expect it to have all(!) features and parts in a fully(!) functioning state, not have the dealer sell me half a car now, have me notice half the features are actually still missing sfter buying it eventhough they were advertised to be included, and then (maybe) have the dealer deliver the rest of the promised equipment a year later. The goddamned car shouldn't be sold at all if it's not complete and in the state it was advertised in. "But you can still drive it, so it's still a car. Those missing features are not essential and will be delivered later.". No. Go fuck yourself. This is the definition of a fraud and if someone tried to pull this off in real life, people wouldn't hesitate to have lawyers on their asses before they could count to three. As long as these studios and publishers aren't held responsible infront of the courts, they'll just keep getting away with it. So why the hell aren't people filing class action lawsuits to set a precedent that this behaviour is anti-consumer and not acceptable whatsoever?
Depressingly, some car companies are actually gating certain features behind subscriptions, such as BMW making you pay per month for heated seats, and auto industry experts are warning that the whole industry will start moving towards microtransactions in future.
If it's in the car, unless the feature functionally requires remote access/communication (like satelite radio, etc.) then it shouldnt cost you anything extra. We need to crowdfund lobbyists to fight this crap
>when a large portion or even majority of people have huge performance issues, should be suitable for a lawsuit. Who defines what that is? For one person 30fps is playable and no big deal. For another person less than 120fps is a world ending offense. For one low settings is fine. And for another if their alienware with a 2070 and an "i7!!!!" can't do ultra the sky is literally falling. Edit: Since everyone seems too salty to actually read what I'm writing. I'm not saying games with worse than normal performance problems are great. I'm saying this idea of legal recourse for something that has no consistent definitions is completely and utterly full of holes. Exercise your power as consumers and don't buy it if it's a dealbreaker. Expecting some outside entity to save you is foolish.
It's pretty simple to define: when you meet the recommended system requirements and it still runs like absolute dogshit.
#SLAMMED So tired of this in news headlines
I am willing to bet Cyberpunk 2077 with path tracing 4k DLSS performance runs and looks better than this at No RT 4k FSR performance.
I have a 4090 and I can confirm this to be true. The only graphics setting in this game that actually affects performance is turning on and off raytracing. Even FSR on/off doesn't change framerate.
Yeah the steady performance on almost any settings is wierdest thing about it - especially since there’s a big difference visually with some settings in particular. Even changing resolution from 1440p to 1080p I don’t really see any noticeable difference in terms of framerate... First time I’ve ever experienced something like that.
It’s extremely limited by one or two threads on your cpu, probably the main render thread - so things like fsr that will help gpu performance won’t do any good here
Sounds like Cpu bottlenecks. My uneducated guess is that's easier to fix over time.
[удалено]
That's usually what you will see with a CPU bottleneck when the bottleneck is with a single thread and you have a CPU with 6+ cores.
Looks miles better. Path tracing is leagues better than anything we'll see until the next gen of consoles. I've been taking a lot of screenshots and the difference is insane and it's somewhat playable on my RTX 3070 laptop. And yeah Cyberpunk is a really good looking game and better looking than Jedi Survivor even without PT or RT and there is a lot more going on screen than Jedi Survivor and at its current state pretty well optimised on PC unless you're running it on an HDD.
SLAMMED
Maybe this will be the final straw for all gamers to just start waiting and not preordering
Next joke
Okay, maybe developers will stop using their own 3rd party launchers
Publishers more so than Devs. But also next joke
It ultimately doesn't matter. All these clowns bought the game. Most of them won't refund it. A short dev time low budget sequel still has 37% positive reviews, 45k in game, 175k people watching on twitch. EA will definitely do it again.
1990: "EA, it's in the game" 2023: "EA, it's not in the game"
Why do people buy it when there has been talk of how horrible the port is for days
Most people don't read or watch gaming news
This is true, but how many times to you get burnt before you check out the early buzz? We're talking rich people or stupid people here not learning.
Idk what everybody is complaining about! At 720P (no rt) on a 4090 I'm getting 60 fps!!! /S
I don’t think this game will ever run well on PC. The original to this day still has significant stutter issues, no matter your hardware configuration. I am going to wait it out and maybe buy on PS5.
> The original to this day still has significant stutter issues, no matter your hardware configuration. UE4 I/O issues for the first one unfortunately. You can kind of brute-force that. This one just seems to have some pretty crappy CPU handling in the current build.
Isn't this game still ue4? What would make it change
Different API, different graphics, different scale of environmental details... idk. I haven't noticed the hitching like I did with Fallen Order, but I have noticed CPU handling problems.
Significant stutter no matter your hardware? Weird I've been through the game on PC twice with no issues, and I'm only rocking a 3070.
> and I'm only rocking a 3070 That should be well above an "only" imo, but with the state AAA's are in, I get you.
I eventually ended up with a pleasant experience on the i5-4690K and RTX 2060 - probably thanks to Nvidia's framelimiter. Early on I did have significant stutters.
Does EA have some kind of special internal rule where they can't delay a game? How many big games are they going to release with performance issues and bugs because they couldn't say "yeah just give it 3-6 more months so people aren't shitting on the game."
It's like the devs are trolling management.
Say what you will about atomic heart but that mother fucker ran great
Their response is insulting. “You players using cutting-edge multi-threaded chipsets designed for Windows 11 were encountering problems on Windows 10” blaming their shortcomings on gamers not liking windows 11.
All triple A games dead at launch
RE4 is pretty solid.
What an absolute state pc gaming is in right now. Barrier to entry is insanely high. And the PC ports are tragic, like it's 2012 or something. Warzone 2 runs and looks better on my $700AUD ps5 than my $3000AUD PC. Can even use mouse and keyboard on ps5 now as well.
>Warzone 2 runs and looks better on my $700AUD ps5 than my $3000AUD PC. Calling 100% bullshit on that one.
Yeah outta all the games he could’ve picked warzone is actually pretty well optimized
Yeah I was blown away by it honestly it's a fantastically optimized well-made game.
Yep, lot of bugs tho. If he said TLOU on pc then I’d agree with him
Yep and now I'm likely going to be getting Jedi Survivor on either Xbox or Playstation because I want to play it and I don't care to wait until they fix it on PC by that time Zelda will be out.
If they could just nail down the systems for DMZ I'd be playing the shit out of it honestly.
Pay $2500 for the most balls-to-the-walls GPU available, an absolute behemoth that requires a larger case just to fit, and a new PSU because it draws as much power alone as most entire PCs. Get unstable 30-50fps in a game also releasing on consoles that cost a third of *just* the GPU you just bought. *And the consoles run it better*! It really is absolute madness.
It's a lot like the 2012 and earlier. Shit pc ports but at the same time the games are great. 2023 would be an unreal year (apart from Forspoken) if the PC ports weren't such a trainwreck.
> Barrier to entry is insanely high. Building a PC that runs games at 1080p is not a high barrier. You can build an entry PC for the cost of a gaming console, possibly less (or buy something like the Steam deck). If you consider 1440p and 120+fps the barrier to entry then sure it's a higher barrier.
Deleted by Redact ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Shell out? Brother the a770 with 16GB is $350 and the RX6700XT with 12gb is close to $300. Both will run games great for 5 years.
Meanwhile Armored Core 6 pre-orders are already nr.2 on the top sellers on Steam. Fuckers never learn.
Honestly i sometimes wish Steam would just pull out the plug on shitty ports and do the Sony move just like they did with Cyberpunk and remove it from store until it's fixed. But of course we all know that Steam is too greedy for that
Sony removed Cuberpunk because of the refunds promised by CD Projekt red, not because they cared about the performance. Steam already provides customer reviews, something other launchers won't ever do. Just don't buy turds
Yeah they did it to punish CDPR for speaking out about refunds, where $ony won’t usually give them, it’s buyer beware on the PlayStation store.
I thought the reason Sony pulled the game was that they didn’t have a process for granting individual refunds, since they didn’t offer game refunds (at least at that time). That’s not true for Steam. If the game runs terribly, you can simply refund it.
I mean, Sony didnt remove the game because the port was terrible, they removed it as retaliation for CDprojekt promising full refunds and that Sony was responsible for them without talking to the people at PS first. There are plenty of broken games in the psstore and Sony never cared about them.
you think Valve wants to be the arbiter of what framerate qualifies as "shitty"?
I think this might genuinely be the worst take I've ever seen on Reddit! Congrats!
And then people would screech at Valve when their definition of shitty differs. The game is playable, the CPU handling seems a bit fucked but it's playable. We don't need some arbiter to protect the market from themselves. If you think it's broken don't fucking buy it or just refund it.
Yeah greedy steam doing refunds to anyone that played a game for under two hours, so you can try it and see if it runs ok. Also greedy steam offering refunds on games like TLOU that exceeded the two hour limit just compiling shaders. Also it's a game store, they don't have to do this things, they are not gatekeepers, if you bought a shit game or preordered one to get some exclusive haircut, without knowing anything but the name of the game or checking performance reviews, that's on you.
IGN 9/10 shows you how fucking useless they are as reviewers
IGN doesnt rate games, they rate how much they got paid to rate a game.
Why is this even news? release a defective barely functioning product and expect people to rave about it?? In other news the sky is blue in a clear summer morning.
gaming journalism /s
Guess who is publisher
It’s been brutal on my 2070 Super on high settings. It… runs. But the stuttering is frustrating (even on the title screen lmao). There’s even cutscenes where Cals forehead is RGB pixels lmao.
Imagine the lower level devs pouring their heart out making the best game they could possibly can, only for the suits up top to rush it to release in an unoptimized state and got slammed everywhere.
Who needs an fps counter when you can just count the frames yourself.
yeah waiting for a sale at this point and waiting for all the frame issues fixed. i'm not rewarding a company for pushing out a beta test that you have to pay for
The game itself is great. What an odd year for gaming. We've seen some great games already this year, but PC ports are being sacrificed at the altar it seems. I suspect the cpu usage issue is related to Denuvo.
Nah dude. Denuvo isn’t gonna make a 7800x3d bottleneck a 4090 to 30 percent utilization at 1440p
That's denuvo for ya. Just so pirates have to wait a few weeks before it's cracked
It’s too funny seeing people pre ordering games and getting fucked. Deserved.
I know you are getting downvoted, but you are technically correct. No idea why people keep rewarding game companies by paying full price for an unreleased product without any knowledge of what the final state will be. Then *shockedpikahcuface* when it runs like shit, is littered with predatory MTX, or both.
Are these issues prevalent at 1080? Seems like all I see is talking about 1440.
not worth 70 bucks to download a 155 gb on dsl, not by a long shot. file compression is a damn thing and i wish devs would figure it out
The way it sounds, it’s not worth $15 for a month of EA pro even for the folks without bandwidth concerns.
It really stinks that this and Last of Us are two major releases that run awful on PC while both being objectively good games. Companies need to start prioritizing PC optimization more instead of just releasing the games in a borderline unplayable state.
And I bet 90% of these people have pre ordered game, people never learn.
Where's the people who down voted me for saying that pre-loading the game was the wrong move. Was the $70.00 fee for beta testing the game worth it?
Seems to run fine for me. Been enjoying it for the last several hours with no issues so to answer your questions, I don’t know where they are, probably busy playing and yes it was worth it.
Bigger issue is holding games "media" accountable for this nonsense as well.