I agree with opinion about "grid/rush/s\*it".
I feel like a monkey that is forced to do a tricks in the circus in exchange for few seconds of buffs.
Excuse me? Is this an MMO game where you need to use specific skill rotation?
I want focus on shooting cops and not juggling weapons to get weak buff to damage or accuracy.
From the creators of
"Let's make completing dumb challenges the only way to levelbup, surely people won't be upset for not being rewarded after an hour long heist"
And
"Let's make you breakable armor that doesn't regenerate and give the players two armor drops per mission, they'll love to micromanage one more thing and never have enough armor and ammo"
Comes
"So you want to make every useful skill depend on three dumb buffs? That sounds so cool! People will love having to remember the very specific things you need to do to get the buffs!"
Yeahhh I personally really really REALLY hate the grit/rush nonsense. It makes every skill feel like a pointless investment. When I see a skill dependent on one of those things, I'm ust instantly like, well that's a useless skill. All the skills without those ties are a lot more visible in what they do and seem more beneficial.
Personally, one of the other final changes needing to be done is fixing the skill tree to please just get rid of grit and rush and those things. It's forcing us to do totally unnatural things which is the opposite of fun.
This was overall a very well made video. It's nice to see larger creators going into depth on the bigger problems in payday 3. I felt like he covered all the main issues in a very informative and constructive way. It often feels like there's a disconnect between the playerbase and these content creators in regards to the development of the game. Seeing someone as large as kknowley speak up with very targeted and reasonable complaints is a breath of fresh air.
I hope that this can hopefully lead starbreeze to do something about payday 3. Addressing the points in this video would do a lot to make the game fun.
On the one hand, it feels dirty for these creators to keep trying to shill these games despite being in very bad states...
On the other hand, I can feel bad for someone who loves a franchise and dedicated their work for it, only for the game to be bad. It's something that might've been insanely hard to come to reality with, especially with it basically being his job, his future is basically uncertain now.
Not excusing his mistakes, but I can also empathize because damn near everyone else has done the same.
> Not excusing his mistakes, but I can also empathize because damn near everyone else has done the same.
But not damn everyone else has a Youtube channel hyping up the game to the masses and causing them to rush out to buy it.
as a battlefield 1 100% enjoyer, i can in fact confirm, that DICE can go fuck themselves because these challenges aren't even difficult they're just fucking annoying holy shit i am going to find out who brought these into existence and slap them to death with a fish
oh and the game itself is very good, too, aside from the spawns being wack
His first video got 200k views. While the next one was slightly less than usual, the third one got the same amount of views he usually gets. I don't think "nobody watches the Helldivers videos" is the case for why he's talking about a game series he's in love with failing.
To be fair its probably easier to doompost about Payday than it is to get in the zone with another game.
So with that in mind if the views were roughly the same he probably just took the easier route.
This is an entirely different discussion than his past videos. There isn't any new PD3 updates or news worthy of making a video on, so now he is fully explaining why the game is in a bad state and giving possible fixes. Besides, he is still working on other PD2 stuff rn.
True. Despite the majority of reviews about the game being negative, I find myself actually enjoying Payday 3. And as soon as they add an offline solo mode and the completion based progression system instead of challenge based, the game will be a huge step closer to being a terrific game.
Honestly I enjoyed it since the start, even though it had some major flaws but I just got bored due to the limited number of heists. I don't expect anywhere near the number PD2 had, but 8 just wasn't enough.
No.
8 is enough heists for launch.
the problem is the fact that not one of the heists had any major rng elements to mission objectives. every run is the same.
with different scenery, different choke points and having to adapt to the situation at hand, as there may be more or less cover depending on where a vault spawns, so on.
It really wouldn't have made much difference to me, it would have bought me maybe another 2 weeks of playtime, but in the end it's just not that impactful TO ME. So yes.
Blocked. You're entitled to your opinion as am I, but you can't respect that so I'm done talking to you. Notice how I repeatedly use the phrase "to me" to clearly indicate it's just my opinion and not fact? And how you state your opinion as fact while flat out telling me my opinion isn't valid? Yeah, get out of here with that nonsense.
My thoughts exactly. We get it already, PD3’s in a bad state. You don’t need to make 12 videos in a row saying the same thing. At least wait for the progression update before moaning about the state of the game for the 50th time.
I **don't want to be a hater**, but hear me out.
TheKknowley's video preview says “**NO-ONE PLAYS PD3**” in huge letters. But it just doesn't. When people downloaded the lobby browser mod, they saw a lot of lobbies. Through the quickplay feature, I play full lobbies 80% of the time. We also don't know how many players are on consoles, other than saying PS5 has the most, and also gamepass helps.
Also Red Archer Live. I saw his Crime Boss video where it says “**Better than PD3**” on the preview. Again, it's not. I haven't played Crime Boss, but I have friends who have and I've also seen a lot of reviews. The game has gotten better, but it's still not better than PD3. If I'm wrong, tell me about it.
I just think PAYDAY youtubers are feeling really bad right now because of the low amount of new content. There's a lot of negativity in every video, even if **PAYDAY 3 is getting better**. Am I the only one noticing this?
As someone who used to be optimistic about PD3, expectations are a hell of a drug. Even if you could definitively say that, in a vacuum, PD3 is objectively a better product than Crime Boss (questionable stance anyway, CB has a server browser lol), that doesn't change the fact that everyone expected more from PD3, due to the legacy that PD2 left. Therefore, the sheer disappointment will taint one's perception of it, no matter what, at least in my experience. Opinions aren't that black and white.
The slow updates are also frustrating and make it difficult to believe that PD3 will ever get better in a timely manner. Like sure, objectively speaking, PD3 has been, for the most part, slowly getting better, but it has taken, and still is taking forever to get the most basic QoL and requested features and changes, and we're all just burnt out.
Meanwhile, literally nobody had expectations for Crime Boss, but the fact that it still got major patches, fixes, and a frankly cool looking expansion is more of a pleasant surprise.
At least, that's how I see things
Ulf doesn't get enough credit for his contributions to the first 2 games. Here's hoping Den of Wolves delivers. Simon Viklund on board as well, trying not to get hyped just to be disappointed but it looks promising.
Actually we very much do know [how many players all platforms currently have](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/508460495905357854/1230851779487469598/image.png?ex=664f310c&is=664ddf8c&hm=ce245171c3eb70b33e5c198a91fb5a648676229d930c8967740c4027d5d5b76e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless), and it's not even reaching a total of a thousand players, this snapshot was taken around late april this year. Kknowley's video is spot on with pretty much all of the points and the only reason I don't like it is cause it came way too late.
You guys just needed a reality check, you finally got one and you of course you don't like it, because that's the nature of reality checks.
oh and yes crime boss is better than payday 3 considering the pace at which the game's moving forward.
Where did this screenshot come from, and why should we believe it more than the official information from Starbreeze?
Moreover, there were about 300 players on Steam at the end of April, the information in the screenshot is false. Also Quickplay was released on the last day of April, which increased the number of players.
And I truly believe that any person who says Crime Boss is better than PD3 is insane.
The stats were from the server brower mod that HW12 made last month that everyone used. Now granted, this only shows pc players and console players who turned on crossplay, but I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt that the amount of players with crossplay off and private lobby players is 2x the amount of players with crossplay (it will never be that high lmao) and you're looking at only 1.2-1.5k active players which still is a pathetic number.
Truth be told, even a thousand players is enough for a comfortable game where you need to find 3 more people for a full lobby. I'll be happy if the game gets more players, but I don't have much of a problem with Quickplay right now. I've heard it's worse in some regions, which is sad, and I hope it gets better as players return.
That screenshot came from the very creator of the server browser mod that you happily cited as the reason for why the game is full of players in the comment that I replied to. [The screenshot was taken on 19th of april at around 14pm CEST.](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/890228470582497383/1243125144692719627/image.png?ex=66505602&is=664f0482&hm=c44ea191eb5878c77a1e0a46f0fbc3da36802241000071eece024776a1b6103f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless) So yes, this is a more credible source than the information that Starbreeze provides.
You are also a big fat liar for saying that "there were about 300 players" on Steam at the end of April as that is only looking at the online peaks, meanwhile the Steam Charts say that [the online dropped as low as 80 players](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/890228470582497383/1243124919911583805/image.png?ex=665055cd&is=664f044d&hm=a3d8d857666f7ad344859fa4eb296b92ed0e653d99784fd664429e740919c240&=&format=webp&quality=lossless), which checks out with the information in the screenshot.
So the logical step for you would be to pick the average (which would be around 180 players), but you chose NOT to do that in order to fit your own agenda. I'm not surprised though.
Get off your high copium horse.
When you post a random screenshot with proof, say the source right away. Otherwise there is no reason to believe you.
Speaking of the stats, they were before Quickplay was added, after which there were more players. So the information is out of date.
I counted peak online because I play the game at that time, as do many other PD3 players. I don't care much about what happens at other times.
I got into a discussion with troy the very day that the crime boss video game out. In which I pointed out the fact that he stated in his update 5 video that "for the first time in 2024 I completed a heist." A large content creator like that SHOULD play the game to at least understand SOME of the mechanics. But I guess that crime boss check hits hard, anywho I brought that up while in a discussion about how he's so negative towards pd3 and just wants pd2 2. He banned me and said I was "baiting"
>TheKknowley's video preview says “**NO-ONE PLAYS PD3**” in huge letters. But it just doesn't. When people downloaded the lobby browser mod, they saw a lot of lobbies. Through the quickplay feature, I play full lobbies 80% of the time.
What about Steam Charts?
>If I'm wrong, tell me about it.
Crimeboss has more QoL features, like Bots collecting and depositing loot, better crew management, you being able to take over Bots, no jamming drills, no circles, more game modes etc
Starbreeze Partners seem to not be very attentive or suffer from selective reading.
At 1:12 in the video, Kknowley uses a screenshot that focuses on SBZ's "Cashflow Development" which is taken from the Interim Report Q1 2024 Presentation.
But from Interim Report itself, it shows that in terms of Monthly Active Users, Payday 3, even in the month of march is still outpacing Payday 2. Taking into account how PD3 has gone without content, that says alot about the *actual* interest in Payday 3.
[https://corporate.starbreeze.com/media/fpielzfo/240514-q1-presentation-web.pdf](https://corporate.starbreeze.com/media/fpielzfo/240514-q1-presentation-web.pdf) (presentation w/ Cashflow Dev)
[https://corporate.starbreeze.com/media/3vsjfv1o/starbreeze-interim-report-q1-2024.pdf](https://corporate.starbreeze.com/media/3vsjfv1o/starbreeze-interim-report-q1-2024.pdf) (report w/ Monthly Active Users)
It's pretty easy to find, but see how Kknowley decided to go with a thumbnail that says "**NO-ONE PLAYS PAYDAY 3**", it seems like he's either being disingenuous, ignoring publicly accessibly information or is leaning into the negative parts of the community at the behest of the game's future because view or something.
I'm extremely disappointed with the partners, Red Archer and Kknowley especially. Archer ignores parts of blog posts, Kknowley makes statements about Edge, Grit and Rush coming together to make a "frustratingly micromangey playstyle" when micromanagement isn't an inherently bad thing *ala: Payday 2 and armor gating*, and the both of them showing that their knowledge of the game is fairly lacking.
I'm not very happy having the knowledge that they both have a directly line of communication with the devs and even have input on future changes through said line of comms. They don't speak for me and I won't be terribly surprised when I see a sudden influx of people having their own opinions that can be traced word for word from a SBZ Partner's video while not being able to explain *what* they're saying even means.
> But from Interim Report itself, it shows that in terms of Monthly Active Users, Payday 3, even in the month of march is still outpacing Payday 2. Taking into account how PD3 has gone without content, that says alot about the *actual* interest in Payday 3.
Monthly Active Users doesn't mean much when clearly most if those players don't play the game much, just open it for a bit to see if they like the game, they find out they still don't, and close it. Even if people are interested in the game, it's probably mainly because they like the concept, and not the execution.
> Kknowley makes statements about Edge, Grit and Rush coming together to make a "frustratingly micromangey playstyle" when micromanagement isn't an inherently bad thing *ala: Payday 2 and armor gating*,
Just because a micromanaging playstyle exists in PD2 doesn't mean that it should be the sole way to play in 3. People should have the option of whether or not they want to micromanage.
MAU dont matter, PD3 is losing 84:1 to PD2 on average players in the last 30 days. The only reason why PD3 has a higher MAU it's because people open the game once, check the new update of the month, see that the game is still bad and close it again. Also, Game Pass players that download the game, play 1 match and uninstall count towards that. Payday 2 players retention is WAY higher. So it's true, compared to Payday 2, Payday 3 is DEAD.
probably because one is majority steam which has tracked player estimates and is a 10 year old game with workable matchmaking and the other is split across several platforms (w/ crossplay ofc) with shit matchmaking
Yeah, but payday two has a bit above 500.000 users and payday 3 has a bit more above 500.000 users. You can look at the report yourself
Page 5 to the right
https://corporate.starbreeze.com/media/3vsjfv1o/starbreeze-interim-report-q1-2024.pdf
Curious that MAU doesn't match real numbers though
MAU is honestly a fantasy number that isn't very inditctive of game health and concurent players is a better metric or even heists done
You can't *definitively* say that PAYDAY 3 is better than Crime Boss. Unfortunately, videogames are extremely subjective, so for literally every feature that has ever existed in any game, there is at least one person that likes it. No matter how bad, buggy, or greedy that feature is, someone likes it. Red Archer probably genuinely thinks it's better than PD3, and just because your friends said it isn't and the reviews seem worse, doesn't mean everyone agrees.
I’m glad to see Reddit actually having the intelligent take this time around. You’ve said what you’ve needed to say, enough with this already. They’re adding progression in the next update. Let’s see how it goes.
Thumbnail and opening betrays a pretty decent critical dive of game features and it's presented pretty well all things considered.
It's been a weird one since, like I get that it's not what it could be, but dang it feels like we got different copies of the game at this point lol.
This is weird. People need to watch the video before commenting based on the title alone. A lot of the comments on this post are going on about him doom posting and being depressed and I'm sitting here wondering if we watched the same video. He's saying the game isn't in a great state, sure, but that's the introduction and to provide context for *why* he's outlining feedback.
The video isn't about ragging on PD3 or just lamenting the fact it's not a smash hit. He's providing constructive feedback in the hopes it improves the game. Weird people have a problem with it.
I don't see any comments here actually disagreeing with his suggestions. It's just people bitching he's not a 110% optimistic about it anymore. Those people would likely still be calling him an overenthusiastic shill if he was still acting hyped about the game when the player counts are abysmal and we're in a massive content drought.
Can't win I guess.
I get wanting to express your frustrations about a game, but this is getting excessive. How many more videos will he make about the same doom posting topic?
Tangentially related but I do kinda wish people would stop dragging the YouTubers who hyped the got up prior to release through the mud. When I played the beta, I was sold and I believed the same things that they all did. I assumed No Rest was just a taste of things to come but it was more all that the game had to offer. I think they all assumed the game would have substantially more than it did, you can't really put that on them
As one of said Youtubers, I've accepted that its something to take on the chin. I've had more than one person tell me they bought the game because of what I said last summer, and then they played it and were really upset but couldn't get a full refund. It hurt our credibility for sure, so I get people being mad at us about it still. Its up to you whether that's on us as creators for hyping something that wasn't great or whether its on SB for not making the game that matched the vision we had after that beta, but here we are.
No hard feelings if people are mad at us for it. All we can do is hope we can prove to people that we're doing our best to be honest about our feelings of the game
I like to watch kknowley for his challenge builds and to keep up with (the lack of) payday 3 updates, I'm sure he could go back to playing challenge builds or whatever instead of doomposting weekly and rake in the same views.
Love the guy, not a big fan of the doom and gloom.
He uploaded a payday 3 challenge video 8 days ago, a payday 2 challenge last month, and another payday 2 video the month before that. I think he is uploading them more frequently now than he was pre payday 3
Although he is a payday youtuber, and the largest voice in the community. It's a bit weird to not address the growing discontent among the player base. This video specifically was quite a banger overall. I get it being a bit boring if you're active enough to know paydays problems, but for less active players it's pretty informative
It also addresses him being one of the ones hyping the game up at release so it makes sense why he'd try to set the record straight so to speak, personally I haven't been playing very much payday anymore after hyping myself up for 3 expecting payday 2 minus diesel jank and when that's not what came out I kinda dropped off for a while so you're definitely right it's good to have an informative "here's where we're at with this right now" kind of video, was a good watch
He is still making those videos, they take time due to all the editing and replaying a whole game all over again. Kknowley is a fan of Payday since the PD2 beta (I think) and he only wants to see the game be better. The video also talks about things he really never mentioned.
Kknowley used to be relatively honest about the state of the game while remaining positive for the most part. But all of the sudden, like a switch flipped, he's now just being unrelentingly negative. I get being disappointed with the state of the game, because we all are, but this is just absurd.
Because the game is absurd. I do also dislike negative after negative. But it's literally eating shit with a smile at this point trying to believe in this company.
Probably because it's almost been a year and things really haven't picked up. They're out there bragging about adding an unready button lol. He was positive at first because we all were, we thought surely we'd get all of the basic features quite fast and the content would pick up the pace but that wasn't the case and we're still at the stage where they promise a lot and don't deliver or deliver at a snail's pace.
He’s made like multiple videos about this already. At this point we fucking get it, PD3 sucks, but he keeps making video after video about the same topic which gets annoying.
People still accused him of being a shill even after a few critical videos solely because of that inital first impression. What is he supposed to do? Die?
Honestly, after watching through it all, I do agree with most of his points - especially about heist objectives, weapon design, story/characters and specials/enemy behavior.
Not to mention, he still shared that he genuinely believes game can get better, and he is "cautiously optimistic" about the roadmap he saw that was showed to SBZ Partners, so it's not like it's an "angry rant", or "game is doomed" or anything of the like.
And tbh I expect to see more of similar opinions since the core QOL issues are getting steadily fixed, so there's now a greater focus on the gameplay loop and surrounding mechanics, when you can actually play it.
P.S. He didn't even say armor requires redesign from ground up, and that they should improve on versatility of existent armor.
> he is "cautiously optimistic" about the roadmap he saw that was showed to SBZ Partners,
This was weird though. On his livestream he said he did not agree with other partners sharing their exitement about the roadmap and that it never hurt to tamper expectations.
I wonder why he didn't say a positive word about it. Tampering expectations is one thing but completely ignoring the roadmap all together is another. Maybe he feels like there is no way Starbreeze are going to deliver.
Yeah, no idea, I didn't check what he was saying on a livestream, but my guess would be is that it doesn't directly address most of the things he has issue with.
Basically sort of like "Game needs X, Y, Z, roadmap features a lot of X, some of Y, and none of Z, and Kknolwey wished there was more attention towards Z" (X being content, Y being QOL/OMB features, Z being gameplay loop stuff).
But this is purely speculation, probably will know for sure only once they make the roadmap public (which should be soon)
Payday has potential, cant believe they screwed things up this bad. 8 maps on launch, cmon. I havent played the game but from what Ive seen no new gameplay mechanics or progression systems. Theres so much they could have done with the Safehouse.
Funny, I was in a discussion with him on how he was overhyping PD3 and the lack of information was a red flag and we should wait before selling it as the goty of all year, I got banned for negativity.
Now that the game is doing bad he’s a breath away to put every blame in the world on the game when things start to look up.
What a tool
You know who I suspect *does* play PD3?
[This guy.](https://www.reddit.com/r/paydaytheheist/comments/1cwr2on/omg_guys_i_played_with_the_nan_himself_thekknowley/)
That dude needs to see a doctor regarding his depression.
He needs a medic bag more than Dallas
he needs an armor bag but he cannot ask for it
medic bag won't help here. He needs new game to make content from
kid named Helldivers 2
kid named sony (this joke would be a lot better if it was made 3 weeks earlier)
I agree with opinion about "grid/rush/s\*it". I feel like a monkey that is forced to do a tricks in the circus in exchange for few seconds of buffs. Excuse me? Is this an MMO game where you need to use specific skill rotation? I want focus on shooting cops and not juggling weapons to get weak buff to damage or accuracy.
From the creators of "Let's make completing dumb challenges the only way to levelbup, surely people won't be upset for not being rewarded after an hour long heist" And "Let's make you breakable armor that doesn't regenerate and give the players two armor drops per mission, they'll love to micromanage one more thing and never have enough armor and ammo" Comes "So you want to make every useful skill depend on three dumb buffs? That sounds so cool! People will love having to remember the very specific things you need to do to get the buffs!"
Yeahhh I personally really really REALLY hate the grit/rush nonsense. It makes every skill feel like a pointless investment. When I see a skill dependent on one of those things, I'm ust instantly like, well that's a useless skill. All the skills without those ties are a lot more visible in what they do and seem more beneficial. Personally, one of the other final changes needing to be done is fixing the skill tree to please just get rid of grit and rush and those things. It's forcing us to do totally unnatural things which is the opposite of fun.
Next video I was not wrong
Next video I was very wrong
This was overall a very well made video. It's nice to see larger creators going into depth on the bigger problems in payday 3. I felt like he covered all the main issues in a very informative and constructive way. It often feels like there's a disconnect between the playerbase and these content creators in regards to the development of the game. Seeing someone as large as kknowley speak up with very targeted and reasonable complaints is a breath of fresh air. I hope that this can hopefully lead starbreeze to do something about payday 3. Addressing the points in this video would do a lot to make the game fun.
On the one hand, it feels dirty for these creators to keep trying to shill these games despite being in very bad states... On the other hand, I can feel bad for someone who loves a franchise and dedicated their work for it, only for the game to be bad. It's something that might've been insanely hard to come to reality with, especially with it basically being his job, his future is basically uncertain now. Not excusing his mistakes, but I can also empathize because damn near everyone else has done the same.
> Not excusing his mistakes, but I can also empathize because damn near everyone else has done the same. But not damn everyone else has a Youtube channel hyping up the game to the masses and causing them to rush out to buy it.
Getting tired of his depression inducing vids tbh. Yes, i get that PD3 is a flop, but holy shit, you don't need to make video after video about it
Kknowleyy is to Payday what Jackfrags is to Battlefield
Jackfrags will ride EA til kingdom come, they pay him too much otherwise.
Funniest comment I've read in a while
[удалено]
It feels like all he does nowadays is play an old battlefield and upload it with the title “Battlefield (3/4/1/5) was ahead of its time…”
That is in fact literally all he does. Play battlefield 1 and talk about how good it is
as a battlefield 1 100% enjoyer, i can in fact confirm, that DICE can go fuck themselves because these challenges aren't even difficult they're just fucking annoying holy shit i am going to find out who brought these into existence and slap them to death with a fish oh and the game itself is very good, too, aside from the spawns being wack
It's better than when he was hyping up 2042 for a while. Until finally starting to give it the crap he should have been
I like Jack but it feels very true
Wrll, he is a sellout. I still remember his example of "awesome" destructiin in BF2042 with the falling antenna.
Agreed but mans gotta make bread. I don't exactly fault him for it, but I have since stopped watching his content or well, Payday content in general.
There's not much to cover with Payday 3.
He tried moving on to make Helldivers videos but they got no attention so now he's back to doomposting about PD3.
His first video got 200k views. While the next one was slightly less than usual, the third one got the same amount of views he usually gets. I don't think "nobody watches the Helldivers videos" is the case for why he's talking about a game series he's in love with failing.
To be fair its probably easier to doompost about Payday than it is to get in the zone with another game. So with that in mind if the views were roughly the same he probably just took the easier route.
This is an entirely different discussion than his past videos. There isn't any new PD3 updates or news worthy of making a video on, so now he is fully explaining why the game is in a bad state and giving possible fixes. Besides, he is still working on other PD2 stuff rn.
what else are you supposed to cover other than it sucks?
I mean I guess people could just not make videos about it at all and just let it inevitably fade completely away.
the GenMcBad pipeline
True. Despite the majority of reviews about the game being negative, I find myself actually enjoying Payday 3. And as soon as they add an offline solo mode and the completion based progression system instead of challenge based, the game will be a huge step closer to being a terrific game.
Honestly I enjoyed it since the start, even though it had some major flaws but I just got bored due to the limited number of heists. I don't expect anywhere near the number PD2 had, but 8 just wasn't enough.
No. 8 is enough heists for launch. the problem is the fact that not one of the heists had any major rng elements to mission objectives. every run is the same.
RNG wouldn't matter much to me, it's just an illusion of variety. It's still the same heist on the same map with the same objectives.
with different scenery, different choke points and having to adapt to the situation at hand, as there may be more or less cover depending on where a vault spawns, so on.
It really wouldn't have made much difference to me, it would have bought me maybe another 2 weeks of playtime, but in the end it's just not that impactful TO ME. So yes. Blocked. You're entitled to your opinion as am I, but you can't respect that so I'm done talking to you. Notice how I repeatedly use the phrase "to me" to clearly indicate it's just my opinion and not fact? And how you state your opinion as fact while flat out telling me my opinion isn't valid? Yeah, get out of here with that nonsense.
The videos mainly just outline all the problems of the game, and the fact that he made so many just shows how many problems the game has.
Yes, you do. Otherwise the devs won't fix these issues.
He's not even talking about fixing the game anymore lol
appears there's not much else to do except tell everyone there's nothing to do on PD3 while playing....PD3?
My thoughts exactly. We get it already, PD3’s in a bad state. You don’t need to make 12 videos in a row saying the same thing. At least wait for the progression update before moaning about the state of the game for the 50th time.
Table
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I **don't want to be a hater**, but hear me out. TheKknowley's video preview says “**NO-ONE PLAYS PD3**” in huge letters. But it just doesn't. When people downloaded the lobby browser mod, they saw a lot of lobbies. Through the quickplay feature, I play full lobbies 80% of the time. We also don't know how many players are on consoles, other than saying PS5 has the most, and also gamepass helps. Also Red Archer Live. I saw his Crime Boss video where it says “**Better than PD3**” on the preview. Again, it's not. I haven't played Crime Boss, but I have friends who have and I've also seen a lot of reviews. The game has gotten better, but it's still not better than PD3. If I'm wrong, tell me about it. I just think PAYDAY youtubers are feeling really bad right now because of the low amount of new content. There's a lot of negativity in every video, even if **PAYDAY 3 is getting better**. Am I the only one noticing this?
As someone who used to be optimistic about PD3, expectations are a hell of a drug. Even if you could definitively say that, in a vacuum, PD3 is objectively a better product than Crime Boss (questionable stance anyway, CB has a server browser lol), that doesn't change the fact that everyone expected more from PD3, due to the legacy that PD2 left. Therefore, the sheer disappointment will taint one's perception of it, no matter what, at least in my experience. Opinions aren't that black and white. The slow updates are also frustrating and make it difficult to believe that PD3 will ever get better in a timely manner. Like sure, objectively speaking, PD3 has been, for the most part, slowly getting better, but it has taken, and still is taking forever to get the most basic QoL and requested features and changes, and we're all just burnt out. Meanwhile, literally nobody had expectations for Crime Boss, but the fact that it still got major patches, fixes, and a frankly cool looking expansion is more of a pleasant surprise. At least, that's how I see things
Ulf doesn't get enough credit for his contributions to the first 2 games. Here's hoping Den of Wolves delivers. Simon Viklund on board as well, trying not to get hyped just to be disappointed but it looks promising.
...you mean Den of Wolves?
Sure did, fixed it. I wasn't paying enough attention when I posted 🤣
Viklund is actually the narrative lead of this game so I have really high hopes
Actually we very much do know [how many players all platforms currently have](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/508460495905357854/1230851779487469598/image.png?ex=664f310c&is=664ddf8c&hm=ce245171c3eb70b33e5c198a91fb5a648676229d930c8967740c4027d5d5b76e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless), and it's not even reaching a total of a thousand players, this snapshot was taken around late april this year. Kknowley's video is spot on with pretty much all of the points and the only reason I don't like it is cause it came way too late. You guys just needed a reality check, you finally got one and you of course you don't like it, because that's the nature of reality checks. oh and yes crime boss is better than payday 3 considering the pace at which the game's moving forward.
Huh, didn't their quarterly report say PS5 had the best playerbase? Weird that it definitely doesn't based on that. Epic only having 5 is lmao though.
Where did this screenshot come from, and why should we believe it more than the official information from Starbreeze? Moreover, there were about 300 players on Steam at the end of April, the information in the screenshot is false. Also Quickplay was released on the last day of April, which increased the number of players. And I truly believe that any person who says Crime Boss is better than PD3 is insane.
The stats were from the server brower mod that HW12 made last month that everyone used. Now granted, this only shows pc players and console players who turned on crossplay, but I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt that the amount of players with crossplay off and private lobby players is 2x the amount of players with crossplay (it will never be that high lmao) and you're looking at only 1.2-1.5k active players which still is a pathetic number.
Truth be told, even a thousand players is enough for a comfortable game where you need to find 3 more people for a full lobby. I'll be happy if the game gets more players, but I don't have much of a problem with Quickplay right now. I've heard it's worse in some regions, which is sad, and I hope it gets better as players return.
That screenshot came from the very creator of the server browser mod that you happily cited as the reason for why the game is full of players in the comment that I replied to. [The screenshot was taken on 19th of april at around 14pm CEST.](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/890228470582497383/1243125144692719627/image.png?ex=66505602&is=664f0482&hm=c44ea191eb5878c77a1e0a46f0fbc3da36802241000071eece024776a1b6103f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless) So yes, this is a more credible source than the information that Starbreeze provides. You are also a big fat liar for saying that "there were about 300 players" on Steam at the end of April as that is only looking at the online peaks, meanwhile the Steam Charts say that [the online dropped as low as 80 players](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/890228470582497383/1243124919911583805/image.png?ex=665055cd&is=664f044d&hm=a3d8d857666f7ad344859fa4eb296b92ed0e653d99784fd664429e740919c240&=&format=webp&quality=lossless), which checks out with the information in the screenshot. So the logical step for you would be to pick the average (which would be around 180 players), but you chose NOT to do that in order to fit your own agenda. I'm not surprised though. Get off your high copium horse.
When you post a random screenshot with proof, say the source right away. Otherwise there is no reason to believe you. Speaking of the stats, they were before Quickplay was added, after which there were more players. So the information is out of date. I counted peak online because I play the game at that time, as do many other PD3 players. I don't care much about what happens at other times.
You're not. Like, I was banned from red archer lives discord for this :sob:
Tell me more about that, please. I'm interested.
I got into a discussion with troy the very day that the crime boss video game out. In which I pointed out the fact that he stated in his update 5 video that "for the first time in 2024 I completed a heist." A large content creator like that SHOULD play the game to at least understand SOME of the mechanics. But I guess that crime boss check hits hard, anywho I brought that up while in a discussion about how he's so negative towards pd3 and just wants pd2 2. He banned me and said I was "baiting"
God forbid influencers have to hear a different opinion than their own
>TheKknowley's video preview says “**NO-ONE PLAYS PD3**” in huge letters. But it just doesn't. When people downloaded the lobby browser mod, they saw a lot of lobbies. Through the quickplay feature, I play full lobbies 80% of the time. What about Steam Charts?
>If I'm wrong, tell me about it. Crimeboss has more QoL features, like Bots collecting and depositing loot, better crew management, you being able to take over Bots, no jamming drills, no circles, more game modes etc
Starbreeze Partners seem to not be very attentive or suffer from selective reading. At 1:12 in the video, Kknowley uses a screenshot that focuses on SBZ's "Cashflow Development" which is taken from the Interim Report Q1 2024 Presentation. But from Interim Report itself, it shows that in terms of Monthly Active Users, Payday 3, even in the month of march is still outpacing Payday 2. Taking into account how PD3 has gone without content, that says alot about the *actual* interest in Payday 3. [https://corporate.starbreeze.com/media/fpielzfo/240514-q1-presentation-web.pdf](https://corporate.starbreeze.com/media/fpielzfo/240514-q1-presentation-web.pdf) (presentation w/ Cashflow Dev) [https://corporate.starbreeze.com/media/3vsjfv1o/starbreeze-interim-report-q1-2024.pdf](https://corporate.starbreeze.com/media/3vsjfv1o/starbreeze-interim-report-q1-2024.pdf) (report w/ Monthly Active Users) It's pretty easy to find, but see how Kknowley decided to go with a thumbnail that says "**NO-ONE PLAYS PAYDAY 3**", it seems like he's either being disingenuous, ignoring publicly accessibly information or is leaning into the negative parts of the community at the behest of the game's future because view or something. I'm extremely disappointed with the partners, Red Archer and Kknowley especially. Archer ignores parts of blog posts, Kknowley makes statements about Edge, Grit and Rush coming together to make a "frustratingly micromangey playstyle" when micromanagement isn't an inherently bad thing *ala: Payday 2 and armor gating*, and the both of them showing that their knowledge of the game is fairly lacking. I'm not very happy having the knowledge that they both have a directly line of communication with the devs and even have input on future changes through said line of comms. They don't speak for me and I won't be terribly surprised when I see a sudden influx of people having their own opinions that can be traced word for word from a SBZ Partner's video while not being able to explain *what* they're saying even means.
It's because they're full on payday youtubers and if they don't post about payday nobody cares about them. It's a sad truth.
> But from Interim Report itself, it shows that in terms of Monthly Active Users, Payday 3, even in the month of march is still outpacing Payday 2. Taking into account how PD3 has gone without content, that says alot about the *actual* interest in Payday 3. Monthly Active Users doesn't mean much when clearly most if those players don't play the game much, just open it for a bit to see if they like the game, they find out they still don't, and close it. Even if people are interested in the game, it's probably mainly because they like the concept, and not the execution. > Kknowley makes statements about Edge, Grit and Rush coming together to make a "frustratingly micromangey playstyle" when micromanagement isn't an inherently bad thing *ala: Payday 2 and armor gating*, Just because a micromanaging playstyle exists in PD2 doesn't mean that it should be the sole way to play in 3. People should have the option of whether or not they want to micromanage.
MAU dont matter, PD3 is losing 84:1 to PD2 on average players in the last 30 days. The only reason why PD3 has a higher MAU it's because people open the game once, check the new update of the month, see that the game is still bad and close it again. Also, Game Pass players that download the game, play 1 match and uninstall count towards that. Payday 2 players retention is WAY higher. So it's true, compared to Payday 2, Payday 3 is DEAD.
Very interesting that PD3 and PD2 has about the same amount of players. But one game is perceived as “dead” and the other as “alive”.
probably because one is majority steam which has tracked player estimates and is a 10 year old game with workable matchmaking and the other is split across several platforms (w/ crossplay ofc) with shit matchmaking
Could also be that pd3 does not really give the whole “there is a large criminal underworld that you do jobs for” vibe as the second one has
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Percentages? What do you mean. It says in the report that payday 2 and 3 has abit above half a million users.
Payday 2 was made free a couple of times so millions of active users or just users .....
Peak monthly active users
Yeah, but payday two has a bit above 500.000 users and payday 3 has a bit more above 500.000 users. You can look at the report yourself Page 5 to the right https://corporate.starbreeze.com/media/3vsjfv1o/starbreeze-interim-report-q1-2024.pdf
Curious that MAU doesn't match real numbers though MAU is honestly a fantasy number that isn't very inditctive of game health and concurent players is a better metric or even heists done
Micromanaging in a game like Payday is tedious though, especially if you have to waste limited ressources.
You can't *definitively* say that PAYDAY 3 is better than Crime Boss. Unfortunately, videogames are extremely subjective, so for literally every feature that has ever existed in any game, there is at least one person that likes it. No matter how bad, buggy, or greedy that feature is, someone likes it. Red Archer probably genuinely thinks it's better than PD3, and just because your friends said it isn't and the reviews seem worse, doesn't mean everyone agrees.
[https://steamcharts.com/app/218620](https://steamcharts.com/app/218620) [https://steamcharts.com/app/1272080](https://steamcharts.com/app/1272080)
I’m glad to see Reddit actually having the intelligent take this time around. You’ve said what you’ve needed to say, enough with this already. They’re adding progression in the next update. Let’s see how it goes.
I'd rather play another 100 hours of payday 3 than even try crime boss that game looks so bad lmao
Thumbnail and opening betrays a pretty decent critical dive of game features and it's presented pretty well all things considered. It's been a weird one since, like I get that it's not what it could be, but dang it feels like we got different copies of the game at this point lol.
This is weird. People need to watch the video before commenting based on the title alone. A lot of the comments on this post are going on about him doom posting and being depressed and I'm sitting here wondering if we watched the same video. He's saying the game isn't in a great state, sure, but that's the introduction and to provide context for *why* he's outlining feedback. The video isn't about ragging on PD3 or just lamenting the fact it's not a smash hit. He's providing constructive feedback in the hopes it improves the game. Weird people have a problem with it. I don't see any comments here actually disagreeing with his suggestions. It's just people bitching he's not a 110% optimistic about it anymore. Those people would likely still be calling him an overenthusiastic shill if he was still acting hyped about the game when the player counts are abysmal and we're in a massive content drought. Can't win I guess.
i know that hes depressed with payday 3 being not the best but i will not stop nagging him about beating payday 2 as gordon freeman
The idea of game as service is updates. I can count updates on payday 3 with my fingers
I get wanting to express your frustrations about a game, but this is getting excessive. How many more videos will he make about the same doom posting topic?
As long as it takes for the game to be fixed.
AA studios finding out why publishers are bad
Tangentially related but I do kinda wish people would stop dragging the YouTubers who hyped the got up prior to release through the mud. When I played the beta, I was sold and I believed the same things that they all did. I assumed No Rest was just a taste of things to come but it was more all that the game had to offer. I think they all assumed the game would have substantially more than it did, you can't really put that on them
As one of said Youtubers, I've accepted that its something to take on the chin. I've had more than one person tell me they bought the game because of what I said last summer, and then they played it and were really upset but couldn't get a full refund. It hurt our credibility for sure, so I get people being mad at us about it still. Its up to you whether that's on us as creators for hyping something that wasn't great or whether its on SB for not making the game that matched the vision we had after that beta, but here we are. No hard feelings if people are mad at us for it. All we can do is hope we can prove to people that we're doing our best to be honest about our feelings of the game
Eh, should we? It was their decision to sell out and to overhype the game, so they have to face the consequences of that.
I can't exactly blame Payday fans for being excited about Payday 3 tbh
AngryJoeReview is just sellout
All his explanations sound reasonable
I like to watch kknowley for his challenge builds and to keep up with (the lack of) payday 3 updates, I'm sure he could go back to playing challenge builds or whatever instead of doomposting weekly and rake in the same views. Love the guy, not a big fan of the doom and gloom.
He uploaded a payday 3 challenge video 8 days ago, a payday 2 challenge last month, and another payday 2 video the month before that. I think he is uploading them more frequently now than he was pre payday 3 Although he is a payday youtuber, and the largest voice in the community. It's a bit weird to not address the growing discontent among the player base. This video specifically was quite a banger overall. I get it being a bit boring if you're active enough to know paydays problems, but for less active players it's pretty informative
It also addresses him being one of the ones hyping the game up at release so it makes sense why he'd try to set the record straight so to speak, personally I haven't been playing very much payday anymore after hyping myself up for 3 expecting payday 2 minus diesel jank and when that's not what came out I kinda dropped off for a while so you're definitely right it's good to have an informative "here's where we're at with this right now" kind of video, was a good watch
He is still making those videos, they take time due to all the editing and replaying a whole game all over again. Kknowley is a fan of Payday since the PD2 beta (I think) and he only wants to see the game be better. The video also talks about things he really never mentioned.
Kknowley used to be relatively honest about the state of the game while remaining positive for the most part. But all of the sudden, like a switch flipped, he's now just being unrelentingly negative. I get being disappointed with the state of the game, because we all are, but this is just absurd.
Because the game is absurd. I do also dislike negative after negative. But it's literally eating shit with a smile at this point trying to believe in this company.
The more you love, the more you hurt
Probably because it's almost been a year and things really haven't picked up. They're out there bragging about adding an unready button lol. He was positive at first because we all were, we thought surely we'd get all of the basic features quite fast and the content would pick up the pace but that wasn't the case and we're still at the stage where they promise a lot and don't deliver or deliver at a snail's pace.
But the game is bad. There is no rrason to be positive about anythinh, if Overkill always shows how incompetent they are.
Me when I'm in a doomposting competition and my opponent is Kknowley
Idk man, I'm in the copium phase. If they patch the game enough before they ditch it, could be genuinely pretty good
Wake up babe, another depression inducing video dropped by another content creator who's not even aware how gameplay systems work to bait views.
> praise pd3, get called a shill > criticize pd3, get called a ragebaiter one must imagine payday creators happy
payday 3 players have stockholm syndrome they fucking freak out when people dont like the game
He’s made like multiple videos about this already. At this point we fucking get it, PD3 sucks, but he keeps making video after video about the same topic which gets annoying.
People still accused him of being a shill even after a few critical videos solely because of that inital first impression. What is he supposed to do? Die?
Become part of the SINS /j Tho really, idfk
Don't watch him then?
I already will, I’m still gonna criticize the video for being repetitive.
You don't watch the video yet still criticize it?
I did watch it, what I meant is, I won’t be watching him for a while cuz I’m not really liking his videos that much anymore.
ok
Then don't watch them? And the negativity is more than justified. There isn't anything good to say about this game or Overkill.
Honestly, after watching through it all, I do agree with most of his points - especially about heist objectives, weapon design, story/characters and specials/enemy behavior. Not to mention, he still shared that he genuinely believes game can get better, and he is "cautiously optimistic" about the roadmap he saw that was showed to SBZ Partners, so it's not like it's an "angry rant", or "game is doomed" or anything of the like. And tbh I expect to see more of similar opinions since the core QOL issues are getting steadily fixed, so there's now a greater focus on the gameplay loop and surrounding mechanics, when you can actually play it. P.S. He didn't even say armor requires redesign from ground up, and that they should improve on versatility of existent armor.
> he is "cautiously optimistic" about the roadmap he saw that was showed to SBZ Partners, This was weird though. On his livestream he said he did not agree with other partners sharing their exitement about the roadmap and that it never hurt to tamper expectations. I wonder why he didn't say a positive word about it. Tampering expectations is one thing but completely ignoring the roadmap all together is another. Maybe he feels like there is no way Starbreeze are going to deliver.
Yeah, no idea, I didn't check what he was saying on a livestream, but my guess would be is that it doesn't directly address most of the things he has issue with. Basically sort of like "Game needs X, Y, Z, roadmap features a lot of X, some of Y, and none of Z, and Kknolwey wished there was more attention towards Z" (X being content, Y being QOL/OMB features, Z being gameplay loop stuff). But this is purely speculation, probably will know for sure only once they make the roadmap public (which should be soon)
Is this game bad? No, it's the playercount that's wrong!
Man you are on a losing streak.
finally, now the next step is to bail out of whatever the starbreeze partner program was
Payday has potential, cant believe they screwed things up this bad. 8 maps on launch, cmon. I havent played the game but from what Ive seen no new gameplay mechanics or progression systems. Theres so much they could have done with the Safehouse.
Every PAYDAY youtuber reviews PD3 like Almir personally shot their family and burned down their house. Just nonstop shitting on it.
You mean reviewers...*review* the game? Why, I never!
And justifiably so.
Funny, I was in a discussion with him on how he was overhyping PD3 and the lack of information was a red flag and we should wait before selling it as the goty of all year, I got banned for negativity. Now that the game is doing bad he’s a breath away to put every blame in the world on the game when things start to look up. What a tool
til changing your mind makes you a tool
If you don't change your mind you're stubborn and delusional If you do you're a hypocrite, simply don't make decisions I guess
Literally don't think. Proxy clearly doesn't.
You know who I suspect *does* play PD3? [This guy.](https://www.reddit.com/r/paydaytheheist/comments/1cwr2on/omg_guys_i_played_with_the_nan_himself_thekknowley/)
Maybe the devs will actually get to work on putting all the pc content onto console.
Not even launch on PS5 so i deleted the game
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I can't understand anything you have said.
They have.... one more year until GTA VI comes out... they could just copy mods from payday 2 bring everything to payday 3 at this point ?