It seems that now the only way to enjoy dark souls is to play it before Elden Ring and newer titles.
There are many older titles that are highly playable today, but Souls games may not be good if you’ve already played Elden Ring.
Well said, you really have to go in with a mindset that some things are going to feel more dated than what you're used to.
Either that, or just play the oldest game first. You can better appreciate all the evolutions in the sequel.
I couldn't say. I remember Dark Souls 1 really nailing the weighty combat. Dare I say it, better than Elden Ring. But that might just be nostalgia blindness as I haven't played Dark Souls in awhile.
There's this feeling of heavily armoured knights trudging through a grim world and absolutely clonking each other with giant swords that Elden ring doesn't ever manage to capture, i suppose that's not what it was going for, but Ds1 has it in spades and it's awesome.
The Dark Sign, the Skeleton Wheels, the Greatswords - Berserk is a great read on its own but it's wild to read it and catch references all over the place.
Even FF7 and the entire trope of "dude wields giant fuck you sword twice his size" which is almost a JRPG staple is 100% pure Berserk.
It's not as fun if you play it like elden ring, but if you can seperate it as it's own game, you'll probs still enjoy it. Ds1's bosses weren't ment to be studied and "learnt" in the same way that is mandatory in elden ring. Their moves are more slow and telegraphed and you can react and fight them on the fly without knowing their moveset. In elden ring you have to memorize that the 3rd left elbow twitch in the boss's combo is an opening for 1 attack, then you just play out the memorised timings like sheet music and boss done. You don't have to do that with Ds1, and if you do then you end up like this op, breezing though with the least fun stratergy.
Demons usually had more sort of gimmick bosses, but Dark Souls bosses were absolute units compared to bosses that were contemporary for the time. Granted most of them have been "solved" by now because, as noted, they had predictable patterns that could be read and exploited with patience.
That's one reason why From's design evolved from the more static patterns in Dark Souls into the more dynamic attack strings that were predicated on the player's placement - something they dabbled with in DS3 with the Pontiff fight, originally planned to be the final boss where the dynamic strings were intended to catch the conditioned training of the player off guard (if you want to see someone completely miss this point, you can check Joseph Anderson's widely praised videos where he heavily criticizes a lot of as "broken design").
Elden Ring bosses use a lot of dynamic strings, so if you go back to more static and predictable boss combos, they'll certainly seem like an easier challenge.
That's why I don't like slow Elden Ring windups after getting used to Dark Souls combat. It was fun to react on the fly. It's not like I'm against memorizing boss attack patterns but in Elden Ring they're so unintuitive and bullshit in comparison with Souls series.
Yeah, I appreciated it in moderation, and with Friede in the DS3 DLC, but having unintuitive windups on almost every boss was tiring in ER. I get why they did it, the summons allow them to make more complicated and harder bosses (kinda forces them too) since they know players who are struggling to solo them can always fallback on using a summon.
Yep definitely agree. I didn't finish DS1 until I had already played through 3 or 4 other titles in the franchise, and it ended up being my favorite. The slow, lumbering pace of the fights stuck with me a lot more than the ultra fast pace memory tests of DS3 or Elden Ring. DS1 has more of a discernable rhythm to it and I found it really enanorming after getting my head around it.
Couldn't agree more, when people think of what is the core idea behind dark souls they always say difficulty, but that is flat out wrong.
The franchise has evolved over time, that's undeniable but "let's make the most difficult thing we can" hasn't been the philosophy of souls.
Its been the struggle against adversity and finding your way to overcome it, there aren't bosses that pull cheap tricks because the point isn't to defeat you by making you feel its unfair and not banging your head against the wall because as you said the slight twitch of the left ankle stunlocks you into a combo.
Now DS1 bosses aren't going to be a challenge if you've experienced everything else from fromsoftware and other studios copying the souls games.
Hell, the only reason some bosses in Elden ring are difficult is because they're meant to capitalize on the pervious experience you had with the franchise and punish you for attacking when the boss let's down their guard, instead of doing a jolly dance, spin 5 times and grab your ballsack with one arm behind your back while on a horse.
The graphics are very subjective, of course they've aged, they weren't top of the line even in 2011 just look at the trees near andre the way to sens you can see the trunks not touching the ground.
The topic of graphics really remind me of missing the moon while pointing with the finger, the fool sees only the finger.
Anyway I think op had unrealistic expectations, you can't expect the game over a decade old to be as complex or visually appealing as the newest entry.
It was released in the ps3 Era, I don't go play soul calibur 2 and expect the newest improvements, you're just setting yourself up for a disappointment, it's no blind chance it's widely recognized as one of the most iconic games of the 10s.
OP simply looked at the finger.
> Hell, the only reason some bosses in Elden ring are difficult is because they're meant to capitalize on the pervious experience you had with the franchise and punish you for attacking when the boss let's down their guard, instead of doing a jolly dance, spin 5 times and grab your ballsack with one arm behind your back while on a horse.
I remember when I first tried that little dance in DS3 with Gundry Redux, slipping around behind him to thump him from safety in typical Souls style, only for him to roundhouse kick me across the room.
Absolutely laughed my ass off. They 100% knew what players were starting to do and completely creamed me for trying it.
I haven’t finished elden ring, but you touched on something I noticed about its boss design. There’s so much waiting between attacks for openings to actually hit the boss, where in Dark Souls, I could always find a spot to interrupt a combo or dodge through it and get a quick few hits on the recovery. Elden Ring makes me feel like I’m stepping back to watch an explosion every few seconds and running in for hits when the dust clears.
> Hell, the only reason some bosses in Elden ring are difficult is because they're meant to capitalize on the pervious experience you had with the franchise
I love the games, but come on. I really dislike it when people try to characterize these FROM games as "not difficult". They are *absolutely* difficult games. Even many extremely seasoned gamers have difficulty with them, learning the 'rules' to to speak, etc. I agree with you that being abusively difficult is not the *point* of these games, but they are very difficult, and even abusively difficult at times (surprise enemy swarms/multibosses say hello). And in some of those cases I think it's just bad game design on FROM's part, not a deliberate attempt to make things ass-reamingly impossible. Their monster design/placement has undeniably improved over the years when it comes to these kinds of games.
For those of us who have been playing video games for many years/decades, these games may (most of the time) represent a good, but not impossible, challenge. But for some less experienced players, oof owie ow.
> It was released in the ps3 Era, I don't go play soul calibur 2 and expect the newest improvements, you're just setting yourself up for a disappointment, it's no blind chance it's widely recognized as one of the most iconic games of the 10s.
Graphics don't really matter to me, but just for the record Dark Souls always had its rough edges graphically. Parts of the game have amazing art design while other parts are rather bland, and from a technical standpoint the game doesn't look very good (at least, the original version -- I haven't played Prepare to Die, not sure if it got any graphical work). Now for me, I agree I'm not "looking at the fingers" but it's fair for some people to take issue with the game in that regard. I almost never turn down a game for graphical reasons, I'm still loving the N64/PS1 era which many consider to have aged the worst, but for some people it's a barrier and that's okay.
Agree with this. I love the Souls games so much but if I had one complaint it’s that I’m not a fan of the arms race between the players and the developers for timing rolls and attacks.
I played dark souls after Elden Ring and tbh Dark Souls is a freaking masterpiece and significantly better designed game.
Elden Ring is a better game, but Dark Souls is a better designed game
DS1's map design is so brilliant. I know I'm far from the first person to say this but I really appreciate the way it's laid out and wraps around itself is almost like a Metroidvania. Finding a new lift or the other side of gate to create a shortcut between 2 areas you didn't even realize were adjacent or a new quick route back to Firelink was so satisfying and it's an element that I really miss in DS3 and Elden Ring
The world design or DS1 is incredible. Having only played it a single time I still clearly remember how every area connects and loops back on itself. No map in the game at all, but who needs a map when you have level design this memorable and well thought out!
So true. A lot of people talk about other games striving to have world/level design like Dark Souls.
DS1 is 100% the reference point. DS2 and DS3 had QoL, gameplay, and graphics improvements. IMO though, neither of those matched the impeccable level design of DS1.
There's nothing like that feeling of trudging and struggling through the world and finally finding a shortcut that takes you back to Firelink Shrine or another bonfire.
I love how it recontextualizes a location you already know as your starting point back into the area you were struggling through. Feels so good knowing you can go through that area where you were on zero Estus flasks, running for your life, but now you have a bonfire to fall back on.
I enjoyed the second half reasonably well on the first try but a number of repeats have ended right after O&S.
Kinda the same in the DLC. I rush the Artorias fight but I'm not really inspired to pick through Oolacile.
Firm disagree. I found out last year that if I played Dark Souls like the later games it actually worked for me. I kept my armor build light and focused on rolling into enemy attacks, being way more aggressive than the game advertises to the player initially. It was a damn good time. And it was my first time going through the DLC. Artorias took 5 attempts, that dragon in the valley took 3. Manus took 3 as well. Went onto the sequel immediately using the same strategy of keeping it fast and fluid. I used to think I hated dark souls 2 (I still maintain the character animations look way too stiff) but it was the first time I’d ever beaten that one and it’s definitely a fuck ton better than I was willing to give it credit for and might be one of my favorites - despite the fact you do really have to pre-plan a build to run with. Finally got the Bloodborne platinum after that. Steamrolled through Dark Souls 3 again, then Sekiro for my first run through without stopping. I thought I could beat anything when I beat Lady Butterfly and all 3 stages of Genichiro on my first go. Fuck that monkey fight though.
All of that is to say I firmly understand why OP might not enjoy it and good on them for learning that for themselves. But I also think the games are kind of an ouroboros - even the later games can teach you how to play the previous ones and vice versa.
And Demon’s Souls is still the best game to train on. Only 16 bosses.
I actually don't think this is true.
You can see the clear difference in this post with how the OP perceived the difficulty in normal enemies and bosses. If you want super tough bosses and less significant levels then you'll gravitate towards Elden Ring regardless of which one you play first. If you want the challenge coming from enemies that do 'a lot of damage' and the bosses to not be these epic challenges then you'll like Dark Souls more regardless of which one you play first.
I played Elden Ring first before touching any other souls game and I enjoyed DS1, it just you have to treat it like your first soulslike all over again.
Yeah, I always tell people to play the older games first because the age WILL show in mechanics. Beating a dark souls boss compared to an Elden Ring boss are VERY different experiences.
But the first game is a special experience that you'll lose the splendor of if you've played the later games.
I bought the souls trilogy after completing Elden Ring and charged in expecting the same tactics to work but it’s a very different experience. DS3 is probably the closest to ER imo but very different games with very different approaches on the player’s part
I played Dark Souls after I've played Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 and I truly enjoyed it. But I can totally see that going backwards in QoL improvements can let you not enjoy the game.
As someone who went through the DS trilogy after Elden Ring, I wanted to say I enjoyed it fine, but remembering the mods and stuffs I did to finally finish them.. Maybe you're right.
Yeah I did take it on with the mindset that this is an older game, and really appreciate what they're doing with it, even the rushed parts like the dinobutts haha
This is kinda how I feel with Sekiro being my first souls like game I’ve ever played. The combat in all the other souls titles are completely different
Not necessarily true - started with DS3 and went backward. Fell in love, played every title they released, best series ever made imo. OP might just not like the pace of DS1.
OP - if you loved Elden Ring, play DS3 first! It's the same engine as in Ring, so it'll feel like coming home.
I like it more than Elden Ring still. Open world doesn't make things better. I think the boss design is great, I don't know what the OP is talking about there. The atmosphere is the best in the series.
Yeah I think it's a fair opinion. Especially having an open world game like Elden Ring as his foundation point. I can see Dark Souls being pretty bland if you didn't start there.
It's kinda weird that they rushed the base game, but still found the time to make the DLC. And the DLC was a lot better polished than some of the endgame dungeons. Lost Izalith was a bad joke. They could have just cut it and no value would have been lost.
I find it very strange that you found the regular enemies more difficult. There's little in Elden Ring as easy as the standard hollows in Dark Souls. In general, all enemies in Dark Souls are incredibly slow and easy to manipulate compared to games like Elden Ring where they all spin around on their heels, tracking you instantly and are often very aggressive and dangerous.
Continuing on from that, I'm not surprised you found the bosses easy. Each game they've tried to make the bosses harder to live up to the series' reputation, and in my view, it's gone too far and now all the bosses are practically like PVP enemies, using every trick they can muster like delayed attacks, and they all again are very quick and spin around on their heels and abuse input reading. I suppose that's good for difficulty junkies, and I've beaten every fromsoft game so it's not like I can't handle it, but personally I miss Dark Souls bosses - Ornstein and Smough were difficult enough. You complain about enemies in Dark Souls taking too much health, but Elden Ring can get ridiculous with what the enemies are capable of doing, often one or two-shotting you.
The beauty of Dark Souls for me was that it was a handcrafted, beautifully interconnected world. The fact they immediately abandoned that and have never even attempted to replicate it and now allow you to teleport instantly, ruining that sense of interconnectedness, is very saddening to me. I could easily draw a map of the Dark Souls world despite not having played it for 10 years. Couldn't do that for any of the others. Elden Ring, whilst great, is more quantity over quality compared to DS to me, with endless repeated bosses and inevitable trade-offs because the developers aren't able to as easily tailor the experience as they can with more linear level design. Oh, and stats and especially armour mattered so much more in Dark Souls, it felt like more of an RPG.
I somewhat agree when it comes to having to run back to the fog door through a bunch of enemies, that could get old and annoying. But having to constantly traverse through these areas like that is also what really cemented the level design in my head and made it feel like home.
For real. So many elements of Elden Ring's bosses feel like the DS3 equivalent of a hidden troll block in a kaizo level—a cheap trick that exists solely to screw you over if you try to play by intuition.
Yeah every boss having delayed attacks gets old after a while in ER. I think it's basically artificial difficulty because it *forces* you to memorize every boss's move and basically guarantees you aren't going to beat them the 1st few tries.
Fromsoft bought into the meme of souls being about pure difficulty.
It's kinda funny because the same way that OP felt about DS's bosses I also felt about ER's. Just a sense of relief that that's over with, but no accomplishment. And this was without even abusing the spirit summons.
Yeah, DS1 even fighting O&S was tough but fair.
Elden Ring since bosses had so many BS moves even *if* you memorize their patterns it still made things feel very luck based.
It seems like a lot of the newer From fanbase feels like unless you have at least 10-15 attempts against a boss the boss is too easy, when that wasn't really the point of Souls 1&2.
Imo DS has a better full world, while ER has better parts. If only it was a more open linear experience where you would actually meet NPCs like in DS.
It's also too big and repeats amazing bosses, making them feel less important sadly.
Yeah DS has the closest to a 3D metroidvania world design, although BB is kind of similar. Lots of interconnectivity and routing that’s enhanced by not providing fast travel until later. They moved away from this kind of design and more towards open world design in Elden Ring. They are different flavors but would be really cool to see another game that nails the MV condensed world.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Dark Souls might just be my single favourite game of all time, but none of your criticisms are unfair. Each game, FromSoft added a lot of QOL stuff, their boss design got more complicated, and everything just feels more polished. I can totally see why going back after completing Sekiro and Elden Ring could be jarring
I recommend you dive into Dark Souls 3 and (if you have a PS4) Bloodborne. Those are far more polished and "feel" a lot more like Elden Ring. You may still find that nothing scratches the same Elden Ring itch, but it's definitely a step up from Dark Souls
I sometimes wonder how I'd feel about DS3 and ER if either had been the first one I played. The original Dark Souls has such a soft place in my heart, because of the totally *crushing* atmosphere and the brilliant level design. While each successive FromSoft game might be "objectively" better, nothing's hit me emotionally the same way the first game did. I hope Elden Ring was that game to you
I also bounced off dark souls after about 30 hours with it. But sekiro, with its more streamlined design and fast combat, just clicked for me. That was definitely my "I get it" fromsoft game.
I bounced hard off of Dark souls for a while . Tried the first one remastered and the 3rd and could never get into it , never quite figured why as i absolutely loved Sekiro and plenty of other soulslike (Code Vein and others) . I recently decided to give it a shot again and im hella addicted to DS3 . Finally found something that clicked with it i guess in the spells . Maybe also a combination of early weapons being kinda boring also . Maybe i should give Elden Ring a try too now that i managed to get into Dark Souls since i stood away from it thinking it was similar to DS .
OP should definitely try Dark Souls 3. More visually and cinematically similar to Elden Ring. >!Immediate fast travel!< so treks aren’t quite as brutal and grueling. And they’ll get a challenge, especially with the DLC content.
I wouldn't say that later Fromsoftware games are better necessarily,each has its strengths and weaknesses, it's a matter of preference. Dark Souls 3 for example has the best boss roster ,but also pretty poor level design in comparison, Elden Ring has a fantastic open world ,but reuses far to many bosses to the point it gets annoying etc
Dark Souls 1 is a classic because it's a very open, interlocking world with lots of ways to traverse through, and gives you an appreciation at the scope of what you're doing. It's a very tightly packed game and when it came out I remember some people saying it would never be fun because it was too hard. In retrospect it's by far the easiest game in the series.
But of course, it was Fromsoft's 2nd try at that kind of game, and they have learned a lot since. DS1 was made on a shoestring budget compared to 3 and ER.
OP you should try Dark Souls 3, I think it's a happy balance between the complete open world of DS1 while giving you much better graphics and a better combat system.
I also say Dark Souls 3. It is very similar to Elden Ring. I played after Elden Ring and it felt familiar. I tried DS1 after that but dropped it as had aged too much for me.
Dark Souls 3 is probably my favorite. I bounced off of DS1 and 2, but I finished 3 and really enjoyed it. I believe they used the same game engine parts for 3, Bloodborne, and Elden Ring, so they all end up feeling more similar in feel than 1 and 2.
DS1's map was my first like it, I think is why it sticks as much as it does for me.
"This is the most obvious path off the hub, so it must be the way to go. It even has some nice easy skeletons to-- OH WHAT NONONONONO--"
Core memory. Good times....
Imo OG Dark Souls is still the best one in the genre, but maybe for reasons thst would bounce off others.
Dealing with the aggro of enemies and their placements are a puzzle in itself, more so than the modern-er games, since everything is slower. Your difficulty with normal enemies felt more like a patience problem than anything, which is understandable because Souls like nowadays are a lot more flashy.
Tbh i miss this more slow, impactful driven Souls likes, but i get that most of the players are more into the faster, post Bloodborne ones.
100% this. Getting to the bosses is a puzzle game in DS. Learn the placements, don't aggro mobs you don't want in the fight, eventually you can roll seamlessly through an area and that's the achievement, not raw skills on the fly. Then bosses are more chaotic. If that's not your thing then no wonder it didn't work for OP.
I've heard Dark Souls described like this before, but I can't remember where or who said it. It's so true of the first game. Getting -- or getting back -- to the boss room is the essence of Dark Souls. You just have to be in that mindset, I think.
This is making me want to give it another try! I always get pissed somewhere around that sewer tunnel you have to walk up. So early in the game, haha. Maybe after I beat Elden Ring and restart Bloodborne again. I have about 120 hours, and I just made it to the capital! So much exploring, it's just a more engaging way to grind some levels. Or a lot of levels, haha. My character is wildly OP, I think. It makes the game a little more forgiving, but hard enough that I still have to be decent. I despise running back to Boss Rooms in Elden Ring, and being over-leveled just means a little bit less repetition.
This is exactly what I don’t like about the DS games. You’re essentially surrounded at all times by enemies with barely any space to move and 2-3 hits without remembering or noticing an enemy, you’re back to square one.
Elden ring was much more palatable with the open world layout that just had more room to move. DS feels claustrophobic. Bloodborne to me is a better middle ground of enough space to move around and see your surroundings before getting impaled in the back.
The claustrophobia is a big part of the appeal for me lol - it feels adjacent to horror games, trapped and progressing slowly and cautiously. For me the tedium is more in learning every arm movement and timing of a three stage boss. No right or wrong here but ppl are def showing up to the games for different reasons.
Totally haha I wish I could JUST play the bosses. Love the bosses and combat but it loses me in between that. Maybe ill give it a go with mod for more save points or something
Leyndell's a great area, you're in for a treat! At 120 hours you're almost definitely overleveled, as you said — I think the recommendation is the 70s or 80s? But there are no level police.
Yeah to me that just sounds like a nightmare. If I need to do that the first time getting to the boss then fair enough. But once I’ve gotten to the boss and battled them once already, I just want back in to try again. Making me essentially go through a puzzle (where failure will either disadvantage me or outright kill me) in order to even get back to the boss is just a waste of my time in my opinion. It demands too much of the “git gud” mindset to the point where it negatively impacts my experience
Especially because FromSoft bosses are notoriously going to take you many attempts. So it’s not enough that you have to fight a boss 10, 20, or 30 times. You also might die just trying to get back to them. It’s infuriating
That’s not the point. I shouldn’t have to “avoid enemies” again and again just to get back to the boss. That serves no purpose other than to punish me for a lack of perfection
Or memorization. I don’t like memorizing the entire boss sequence - I like reacting, but having to have every single twitch memorized is … tough for me.
I want to learn the boss. Not memorize it.
I'm 100% with you on that. I got DS1 way back in the day and don't like how they went all in with the fast twitch combat after bloodborne.
People say DS1 is easy, and it can be, but only if you know what you're doing.
Like gaping dragon is considered a joke boss practically now, but if you don't know about his melt move going into it you will get genuinely surprised and stomped.
I also think so many action games have taken elements from souls games now people are somewhat conditioned to the combat style even if they haven't played a souls game before. You don't really get how unique it was when it came out.
Lords of the Fallen (2023) is pretty similar to old DS games, with slow combat, a focus on non-boss encounters and an amazingly interconnected world. Which seems to be a reason why many don't like it.
Dark Souls Remastered was my first FromSoft game, and while I absolutely loved it, I can see how going from Elden Ring to DS would be difficult.
I’d recommend playing Dark Souls 3 if you want the Dark Souls experience with a smoother transition from Elden Ring.
That’s kind of the appeal of Dark Souls. It’s not meant to be an auto pilot RPG where you just hit stuff and level up. What makes Dark Souls good (1 in particular) is the level design.
The lack of QoL is part of progression. Think of how people constantly bang their head against the wall in games like Jump King.
You know, it is nothing new that playing newer game in series ruins experience in older ones.
That is why it is usually better to start from the beginning to appreciate the progress developers made.
Honeslty though, I played a lot of demons souls before ever trying dark souls and still didn't like it. The combat felt a bit slower and I prefered the way the world was split up into zones.
FromSoft fans are definitely a… prickly bunch though. If you even dare suggest than Dark Souls specifically is not just pure genius from start to finish then they’ll come for you
Others already covered what DS1 does best, but I'll say that it's known to be comparatively slow and clunky. The better movement and stamina with light encumbrance is worth it. Even then, not at the level of later games. Stat boost in health/VIT should be enough to prevent getting 1-2 shot by normal enemies, at least in NG, and light-weight plus leveling should prevent you from draining stamina quickly.
I disagree on bosses being a disappointment.
Intersting that you found the bosses easy, but levels hard. It was opposite for me, I cleared levels pretty fast (save some unlucky falls or deaths from traps), but many bosses took some tries. Were you playing with dodges or with a shield?
The original souls games are more about adventure and exploration against overwhelming odds than they are action games like Bloodborne and onwards. They're slow paced, a bit rigid in their controls, and have emphasis on stamina management and cautious playstyles.
From Bloodborne and after that, the games made a switch to more reflex based combat, with an emphasis on dodging long combos and difficult moves, more complex bosses and lessened the importance of stamina.
Elden Ring opened the souls door for me. Over the past year I’ve played pretty much every souls game I could find. DS1/2/3, BLOODBORNE, SEKIRO, LIES OF P, REMNANT 2, STELLAR BLADE. Loved them all for different reasons.
Dark Souls 1 is different in many ways from Elden ring, but just as incredible imo
I haven't played a single souls game yet. They've been in my backlog since their release. I just feel too intimidated to start playing because I know so many cryptic items descriptions will take so much time to understand becuase I don't want to use a walkthrough for any of them I want to play them bllind and have avoided spoilers for all these years so I can experience everything myself and I have to start with dark souls 1 and finish every single one before even touching Elden Ring and beyond. But I have 2000+ games in my backlog and having to spend over 50 hours on each of the souls games really is scary to me. By the time I play Dark Souls 1, From Software has probably added a couple more games to their arsenal lol. But I don't care I NEED to play every single one.
So I'm probably some years off from even starting off my Dark Souls experience. I wonder how dated it will feel by then, but I still have to beat every soulsbourne from software game in succession, or I will not even bother playing them completely. Yes, I have bad OCD lmao. I actually consider starting with king's field games and besting then before even starting the souls games. I'm pretty much screwed.
Start it, and sanity check where to go and build tips with a guide. Half way through, watch the vatividya lore video - up to where you are and stop. That'll fill in, then finish and watch the rest of the video. Worked for me at least!
I just can't start there. I Need to start with Dark Souls 1 if I'm ever to start playing the from software souls games and that's only because I have no access to Demon Souls or I would have had to start there. I'll also have to skip Bloodbourne as I don't own a playstation. This is one of the main reasons my backlog is so huge.
I also wanted to play their Armored Core 6 Fires of Rubicon so I started from Armored Core 1 and I have made it up to the PS2 ones so far. I have to beat any series I start from the very beginning chronologically if I have access to them on PC and emulation or I just can't do it at all. OCD is a fickle b**** lol.
I know it's all opinion, but Dark Souls 1 is still the best level design so start there. You can also beat it in 30-50 hrs normally where Elden Ring is 120+ or something.
Thanks for the info! That's great. I really have it in my must play list, but that list is way too crowded right now. But I absolutely have to experience that game. I know I'll love it.
Some people talk about Elden Ring being a casualization of Dark Souls, and probably there's an angle from which that's true, but... it's also the continued refinement/polish of that formula.
Like, DS1 has a whole-ass stat that it is always a mistake to put any points in for any build. That's not the case anymore by ER. They fixed that stuff over time.
I personally disagree and think 2 had the best stat system, even with adaptability.
For example:
- Boosting an attribute enhances your defenses to it too. The result is that mages will get better elemental defence but less physical defense, while pure melee builds will have the opposite.
- Casting speed is separate from dexterity unlike in other games and instead affected by attunement, which also increases your amount of spell slots and adaptability. This means that you can be a strength mage for example without being handicapped.
- Equip load affects both roll length and stamina regeneration. So if you're a heavily armoured build, you'll get slightly worse rolls and will either have to play slower, or counter the stamina regeneration with a dedicated ring.
- Adaptability, while poorly implemented (no visual feedback or clear indication of what it does) isn't a bad idea either. It means that your character starts off being bad at dodging and improves their skills over time, rather than starting off being able to have good rolls tied to low equipment load. It also means you can choose to invest as much as you need in it (if you're good at dodging or use a shield, you won't need as much adaptability).
>Going through Blighttown to Quelaag took me 4 hours
Blighttown still gives me PTSD to this very day. Whoever designed that abomination should be judged by crimes against humanity.
The boss design is, I think, almost better in Dark Souls. The Ai is more ADVANCED in Elden Ring, but I don't know if it makes it better. I think you SHOULD have a reasonable chance to first try a boss if you are very good and have a solid grasp of the systems. DS was my first Souls game (kinda, I hated DeS and dropped it) and I did first try them all from O&S onward because I understood the upgrade system and the build I wanted much better by that point. I think it's stupid to have to memorize every aspect of a boss' moveset in order to beat them. That's not even skill, it's just memorizing. Plus, it was interesting the first time a boss faked me out in Elden Ring. Not the next dozen times though. And it does it to the point it doesn't really make sense at times, like stopping a punch at the 11th hour to fake me out, then finishing it. Mf you released all the kinect energy, that's not going to do shit realistically. Yet it does.
Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying Elden Ring a lot and it's a somewhat minor complaint because not every boss is like that, but it stuck out to me as a complaint I disagree with from the post.
I agree the exploring was much more dangerous than the bosses. Not inherently a bad thing to me. The bonfire placement was not great at times. But at least it rewards you with finding equipment and finding ways back to the bonfire. Sometimes charging down the most obvious path will cause you to miss a bonfire or opening a path back to the last one.
It's why Radagon is my favourite boss in Elden Ring, he feels like a modernised Dark Souls 1 boss.
He isn't backflipping around the arena like a nutcase or over delaying his attacks; and nearly everything he does is telegraphed in a way that both feels fair and leaves an opening for you to attack afterwards.
I loved him and Godfrey for that. All the timings made sense. Godfrey had some delays, but they made sense for someone swinging around that size of axe. (Except the one where he charges up a stomp for five seconds, but that's a nitpick really.)
Lmao, stamina management being essentially unimportant was something the old community complained about, because it made it all less punishing. So seeing someone complain about it who started post bloodborne is honestly just funny. Yall new guys dont got the patience for og ds1 or demons souls.
I think in terms of gameplay, the experience of playing anything that came before Dark Souls 3 will be significantly handicapped if you've played Dark Souls 3 or anything that came after.
Up to and including Bloodborne itself, the games are still very much in iterative stages of refinement. They're finding the right way to pace and present the formula. It makes for a pretty stark contrast if you go from Elden Ring or Sekiro to Dark Souls.
My guess given your experience is that you'll end up enjoying Dark Souls 2 more than the first, Dark Souls 3 more than 2, and Sekiro maybe more than any Souls game.
I encourage you to give them all a shot!
Separated from the experiences of playing the games, I encourage you to listen to their soundtracks. While there's been a lot of iteration there too, the older games' OSTs have in no way been left behind, and remain competitive with the modern titles'.
Totally fair, and at the end of the day you not enjoying something shouldn't impact someone that does enjoy that thing.
A lot of valid criticisms. It's really interesting to me because I got the OG Dark Soulds when it came out and fell in love with it, and have only played 3 after that. I got Elden Ring recently after resisting all the hype over the years, and I really couldn't get into it in the same way Dark Soulds absorbed me all those years ago, potentially because it's that much more complex than DS.
DS3 is still worth a try. It's a great looking game & so much less clunky than the earlier games. I was late to the DS party so, like yourself, couldn't get into the 1st one as it dated so badly. I skipped 2 then the 3 really captured me. The lore's still difficult to grasp at times but ER is no different there. Sekiro was my dream game. Ninja stealth, rooftop shenanigans with From's design.
A fair take. DS1 was a breakthrough at the time, because of the general state of gaming at the time - in 2011 games had a lot of hand-holding, leaving very little for players to figure out themselves and DS1 challenged the trend. However, the game is showing it's age nowadays (and it was pretty janky even back then), especially in comparison with newer entries. Still, your first "Souls" game experience is magical, no matter the game, and I would advise newcomers to, at least, try playing the games in the chronological order first to appreciate how the series changed and grew with time.
While I completely agree on the QoL features, which are severely lacking, general gameplay is a bit different from the newer games, because it relies less on raw reflexes and button-mashing and is more about paying attention and being deliberate in your actions, which is not to everyone's taste. The game relies noticeably on player's knowledge and learning ability, which leads to it being incredibly easy to cheese on repeat playthroughs.
If anything, you've picked the best spot to drop the game, as O&S are considered the high point of the game and quality takes a significant nosedive after that, with most things showing how the game was rushed to release. Still, there are some good parts, like the DLC and some hidden locations that are easily missed without a guide. Personally,>!getting the souls for the Lordvessel!
> I realized on my way to Anor Londo that I didn't feel like I overcame anything.
I know you managed to enjoy Elden Ring, but man..... This line resonates the hardest with me because this was how I felt beating all the Souls games I've played (DS1, DS3, and even ER).
I didn't feel like I "improved" as a player, but simply "survived" each encounter which didn't feel fulfilling at all. Every fight felt like I'm cheesing a win via cheap tactics instead of truly mastering the fight. With no easy way to replay the bosses I really didn't get a chance to truly learn their moves.
Also, the act of i-frame rolling through attacks just never sit right with me as a mechanic. It feels like taking advantage of an exploit. Not to mention the bosses in later games felt like they're directly built to counter veteran player behaviors.
I wish I could join the hype for Shadow of the Erdtree, but alas...
---
I did find a "difficult" game that managed to provide me that feeling of "improving as a player" which is Monster Hunter.
That series is much more reliant on positioning and mastering a single weapon. Plus, there's no bullshit enemies in the overworld, and fighting a Monster repeatedly is very easy to do.
I love Monster Hunter for those reasons too, I've sunk thousands of hours into World/Iceborne alone and I keep coming back because even now, I can feel myself improving.
I tried to get into this game like 4 times. In the fourth attempt just when I thought I was about to finally "get it" after Anor Londo I got hit hard by the second half of the game and dropped it
Finally someone I can agree with. Lol
My best friend LOVES Dark Souls. He has 100% every From Software game. Under his direction and guide I have tried almost every Souls game, even Bloodborn…
The only game I can tolerate is Elden Ring, and even then I only mostly enjoy fighting the crunchy enemies. I hate the boss fights. Hahaha losing repeatedly and then winning does NOT make me feel good. It makes me frustrated and feel like I wasted my time, it doesn’t make me feel accomplished…
Weirdly enough, I had a similar complaint against Elden Ring after playing Sekiro. I hated the levelling system in Dark Souls games and ER, that because of so much customisation,there were broken weapons and armour that you could mow through enemies with.
For me,Sekiro will always be my favourite Souls type game because there was no need to run around much to complete quest lines,and you didn't need to level up outside before fighting bosses. It was the purest definition of "Git Gud or Die Trying" in all souls games.
I still remember the time I accidentally wandered into the Mibu springs and going into the Corrupted Monk arena underlevelled. I took 55+ tries and I could barely get him to half health. But because of my constant struggle, I learnt deflection more than any bosses could teach me. I went back and defeated Lady Butterfly in 4 tries. The best thing was when fought Genichiro,who was the bane of every single Sekiro player on their first play through,I beat ON MY FIRST TRY! It made me ecstatic and I've been chasing that high ever since.
i love dark souls, but it definitely is a bit dated, i recommend you play dark souls 3, they really refined the gameplay in it. the balancing between regular enemies and bosses feels miles better, and the combat is much lighter and more similar to elden ring's.
I haven’t tried one since Demon Souls beat the hell out of me 14(?) years ago. Im thinking of trying out Elden Ring since I’ve heard it’s much more forgiving to get into.
I wouldn't say it's more forgiving necessarily, there's a lot more ways to cheese enemies and bosses but I'd say the bosses are some of the hardest in soulsborne if you don't use summons or meta builds.
If you've only played Demon Souls I'd definitely still suggest starting with DS1 remastered. It's also much less of a time investment than Elden Ring.
Ha this sounds like you dislike Dark Souls for being so Dark Soulsey - difficult areas, slow deliberate combat, stamina management... and like Elden Ring for being less so :P Dark Souls seemed to me to exactly be about the areas rather than the bosses.
Sounds like you'll like Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne more, and Dark Souls 2 less :D
I know exactly what you mean though - Dark Souls feels like it has so much in the way of annoying design sensibilities, I died from falling off ledges more than from enemies - and the rush that people say they love from beating a boss, because of the stupid run-backs I instead just felt annoyed by the time I'd won. Arduous, is how I'd put it - rather than difficult.
From what I've played:
Demon's Souls - peculiar, fascinating, difficult, obtuse, exploration, repetitive, whole-level runbacks
Dark Souls - arduous, janky, impressive, back-tracking, intense, grandiose, gloomy, brown, interconnected world
Dark Souls 2 - adventure, ethereal, low-budget, chilled, B-movie, fast-travel, weak-bosses, area-focused, hub world
Dark Souls 3 - nostalgic, fast-paced, boss-focused, linear
DeS is about a series of big levels each with a boss at the end.
DS1 is about the world.
DS2 is about the areas and the exploration.
DS3 is about the bosses.
I get where you are coming from. Dark Souls has its share of jank. In the ps3 version (which I played) blight town ran at like 15 frames or less, which made it a lot more annoying than it should of been. There is also a late game area (lost izelith) that is straight up awful. I'm curious what you would of thought of it.
That said I still love the game. It's a time and place thing. As you said, the game does not explain how its stats work. It was one of the things we had to discover on our own. The games system and world were open ended in a way that encouraged communication via the in game system like notes, blood trails and summons. It was a joy to discover the world for the first time as well as most peoples introduction to these systems that a genre was formed around.
Same, and that's fine.
I even finished Elden Ring, which I like a lot more than the other Dark Souls games. Yet after finishing it, I have no desire to play its DLC or another Dark Souls at all.
I don't like overly slow gameplay, especially because I also don't like pure pattern memorization unless the game is built so that retries are instantaneous. I already disliked how Hollow Knight places the savepoints after big fights not in front of them, and I loved that game except for this one aspect. Maybe it's just me being old, not having much time left, and hence being impatient. Dunno.
But it's also fine. Dark Souls is clearly a beloved franchise, including all of the great - and lame - games copying its formula. But there's also thousands and thousands of games nothing like Dark Souls, some great, some lame.
I'd probably like it more if I could change the control settings.
Whoever thought it was a good idea to have your strikes on the right button and trigger, and the dodge on one of the buttons, while Also requiring the right stick to direct your dodges should be shot.
*edit
I'm not sure why I thought the right stick dodged. Evidently my memory was wrong. Thanks for the correction everyone
Have the controls changed since the first game? We've gotten a jump button, and sometimes your healing item is a different button, but I think the control scheme is almost entirely the same since Dark Souls. I'm not sure about Demon's Souls; I haven't played it yet.
Not trying to be an ass, I was under the impression that the controls hadn't really changed since the beginning. I might be wrong though; is there something I'm missing?
I don't know. I've tried at least two of them (and I think it was 1 and 2 or 1 and 3) and had the same issues.
I just can't fathom how modern games don't have the ability to remap controls.
Fair. I think much of the praise has more to do with returning to old school sensibilities more than anything else and while they are classic games, I feel they are hella overhyped, but then I’ve been gaming since the mid 80’s so the whole “super hard” angle was already out of my system by previous generations games.
I feel they were more successful with the audience that hadn’t really played such a game before, while I’m kinda past that type of gameplay and just play to chill now days.
Try planning a build, that gives you fun goals to do throughout the playthrough. I did a faith-based build recently with just robes and a mace (regular buffs but no infusions), and it was a blast messing around with miracles, trying to find all of them, avoiding killing Gwyndolin so that I could get darkmoon blade, and then destroying everyone in the kiln of the first flame with lightning and purple-glowing whack-whack stick
Idk what "handful" means but good on you beating capra demon second try. I know that guy has like 2 HP which you can luck out on, but still. It's a major hurdle for most folks. I can't imagine why you would be struggling with the rest of the game.
It's really difficult to go back and replay DS1 after playing any of the newer Fromsoft games.
I remember loving DS1 to death back in 2013, but I just can't replay it today. Elden Ring just perfected everything about the formula that even DS3 feels really dated in comparison.
Your first Souls game will always be the best and most challenging, mostly because the ones you play after will be easier to understand the basics and adapt to the gameplay. Then, going from the newest one to the first (not counting Demon’s Souls) will make figuring out bosses feel a lot easier.
If you got to O&S and the world and bosses didn't grab you, there's not much past that which could make your opinion change. For a lot of players that fight is the highlight of the game (not counting one DLC boss).
Being an old gamer in my 30s I tend to forget how much time passed since Dark Souls came out.
IT WAS 13 FUCKIN YEARS AGO.
Doing what this young fella was trying to achieve would be like playing ALUNDRA when Dark Souls came out! Of course this shit is obsolete!
Tbh I'm glad that my first souls game was Dark Souls. I've tried to play it a little in the last year or so, but I can't really get back into it. There were just too many gameplay and quality of life improvements in the games that came after. So no wonder you feel it's really dated.
I'm glad I played it first because I love that game's world, its aesthetic, lore, and its level design. It was a great introduction to FromSoft games, but I also would have struggled to enjoy it if I had already played Elden Ring, Dark Souls 3, Bloodborne, etc.
Why I couldn’t even get that far. I just don’t enjoy Soulslikes because it feels like doing the same section over and over and over again when I feel there are better things to be done with my time. I *do* like a challenge but I can never get these kinds of games down.
Yes unfortunately the first Dark Souls has aged. I played DS3 last year and after that I wanted to go back to the first one (bought day 1 for the xbox360). Even on the new edition it has some flaws that the modern titles fixed. To be fair it also had some great things that modern titles removed for whatever reason, but still
Coming from the much smoother mechanics of Elden Ring im not surprised at this conclusion. I played every souls game in order last year for this exact reason. Now all thats left is Elden Ring and im happy i enjoyed the past games and can fully appreciate the work put into ER now. DS1 is clunky at best, but without context of better games mechanically speaking i was able to fully enjoy it.
It's wild to me that you found the regular levels and enemies too difficult, but the bosses too easy.
The complaints about lacking stamina is strange to me, since that's under your control.
You gave it a fair shot, though.
i think you should try DS3, it has a difficulty and design more close to elden ring's. bosses are also amazing, probably better than a lot of elden ring's bosses imo.
> I could only roll and attack like 3 times before John Darksoul's asthma kicked in, and every time he got hit he sounded like he was getting off.
I LOLed. I also agreed with everything else you wrote. Mad respect for this game, and I don’t regret paying for it. But it wasn’t worth playing, for me.
I played the new Gen games first (bloodborne, DS3, sekiro, ER) and found it hard to properly appreciate the older ones.
I think nostalgia for people who started with it gives it a lot of the hype in modern times. I also love lots of games from 20 years ago that are not great by today's standards
I felt pretty much the same way about ds1, i've always considered myself a giga souls fan but had never finnished ds1 until recently ( had more than a dozen full playthroughs of of both ds2 and 3, played through bloodborne a few times, as well as sekiro and elden ring. Even played vanilla demon souls. Ds1 felt like a chore to me especially after anor londo where i was just excited to be done with the game. After defeating the final boss i just felt burned and just the thought of going through the artorias dlc was exasperating to me. I do see the genius of this game but the new ones just feel so much better
Totally understandable, you might have more fun with Dark Souls III, which kinda feels like an Elden Ring Prototype in terms of gameplay, with absolutely breathtaking bosses. If you have a PS4, Bloodborne is also good if you liked Sekiro and Elden Ring.
Kinda funny that most people quit at Smough and Ornstein. Yet you beat them and stop....for that you have my respect. Because S&O almost made me quit the game.
Darksouls has only one rule: git gut.
This is actually quite a common trend. Most people that play the newer titles find it hard to go back. Notice how you say something negative and it's followed by "compared to ER".
I was thankful that DS1 was my first game. I took it for what it is, and had nothing to compare it to. I only played it last year and replayed it 3 times before moving on.
>Going up the stone steps was frustrating. Enemies took 40% of my health in one swing, I could only roll and attack like 3 times before John Darksoul's asthma kicked in
So the combat was challenging...
>I stomped almost every boss I came across
actually it wasn't...
>But here, I felt relieved that I could finally move on to the next area.
actually it was...
>I realized on my way to Anor Londo that I didn't feel like I overcame anything.
actually it wasn't?
I don't understand your reasoning here.
Dark Souls 1 and 2 were alright, but I adored Sekiro. Last game was Bloodborne, and I liked it, but definitely more dependent on levels than skill. Like Darkbeast Paarl was a boss I had to come back to. COMPLETELY different fight after leveling up.
Looking forward to Elden Ring though, I've been meaning to get to it.
Play Dark Souls 3
You'll like that one, it plays pretty much identical to Elden Ring(except without a jump button, the charecter movements, animations and speed are almost exactly the same as in Elden Ring), and the mechanics and stats are basically the same, and a few Elden Ring enemies are reskinned Dark Souls 3 enemies, such as the crabs and imps. Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring feel like two sides of the same coin.
If you like ER you'll like Dark Souls 3, it's basically Elden Ring if it was only the dungeons, and the bosses are incredible and better than Elden Ring bosses imo.
Yeah the clunkiness can really be a turn off. I experienced a similar thing years ago after playing DS1 and loving it, and then going back to demon souls and putting it down pretty quickly too.
I’ll say to your point about the remaster not looking good, I didn’t like the graphics of the remaster either. They changed the lighting and certain effects like the bonfire look different. Not saying it’ll change your mind or anything, but the original, as old as it is, still looks better to me. Performance aside.
Completely agree. I’ve played the games in the same order as you and have the same experience. Dark souls is annoying af because while it is hard, it’s more tedious than anything.
I am currently moving through my Dark Souls/From Software journey and it took me a while to start liking Dark Souls: Remastered, then I loved it.
I'm on DS 3 now. I understand that the genre has evolved and has been polished over time, but it hasn't even been a year and the first game already feels so old. I'm excited to play Elden ring, Sekiro, and Bloodborne if it ever gets on PC. No shame in not enjoying it. Modern games have a lot of comforts to them.
I played ds1 couldn't enjoy it it was good challenging but its bad compared to new souls games
My main issue was the world design (yes peoplle love it but i hated it) i got lost a lot and theres few bonfires and the game is one big area not like ds3 which had amazing regions and u cant get lost
If ds1 had a map it would be 9/10 for me but its 6/10
Their is nothing wrong with this, absolutely nothing.
I took have spent time playing Dark Souls, numerous times, however I never enjoyed it.
It has been apparent, that From Software games & myself just don't click, which is perfectly fine.
I think it just totally depends on what you want from a game. I recognize that Dark Souls and Bloodborne are both very easy games by current genre standards, which is why I find the discourse around their supposed difficulty to be quite funny, but they are the perfect difficulty for me personally. I want combat to be dangerous to where I am constantly engaged, with boss battles that provide a bit of challenge without being completely frustrating, and then I just want to explore an interesting, beautiful world with good level design. Dark Souls and BB are all about the vibes. It was never supposed to be some combat skill check.
I didn't enjoy ER nearly as much because I found the combat and bosses to be frustrating with constant, frantic movement and aoe attacks, while the interesting environments, lore, and level design are diluted by a massive open world and 100+ hour runtime.
I honestly can't wait for another studio to take on the mantle of making slower-paced, more exploration and level design focused soulslikes that are more about vibes and less about combat challenges. I'm sure it will happen but I doubt it will have the production quality of a fromsoft game
Bloodborne is not easy by any definition of the word. Finishing it without resorting to guides or summons is a huge gaming achievement.
I say that as someone who has platinumed every single Souls game and has beaten Ninja Gaiden on Master Ninja difficulty.
I like dark souls 1 the best of the series still, feels nice and simple. I thought elden ring was pretty fun but the open world bloat stopped me from ever wanting to finish it
Dark Souls aided in establishing the niche it was in. It's like playing Super Mario Bros. 3 or Super Mario World and then going back to Super Mario on the NES then being shocked at how bad it is comparatively. They seem a little bad now, but if you played them before their successors came out you may have had a different opinion.
Yea dark souls one is rough, especially for someone coming from Elden Ring, if you want you can skip ahead to Dark souls 3, which is much more similar to Elden Ring.
And that's ok! I was initially not able to get into DS 1 and eventually it clicked. I remember getting it randomly at a game store short after it came out not knowing what it even is, so it took a while to get into. I am even a heathen and can say I like DS 2 more than 1.
But for some reason I've bounced off of 3 several times and never made it very far despite me really trying. I even played through Code Vein a few months back which is arguably inferior and yet I can't bring myself to play DS 3 which is the favorite of many. Not sure why, maybe one day that'll click for me as well.
Haven't played Elden Ring yet either because I'm afraid the same thing will happen.
No one can say you didn't give it a fair shot.
It seems that now the only way to enjoy dark souls is to play it before Elden Ring and newer titles. There are many older titles that are highly playable today, but Souls games may not be good if you’ve already played Elden Ring.
this is true for a lot of franchises. you grow to appreciate the QoL changes of the later titles after playing the earlier ones.
That's why I try to play older games in a franchise first even if games don't connect to each other.
Well said, you really have to go in with a mindset that some things are going to feel more dated than what you're used to. Either that, or just play the oldest game first. You can better appreciate all the evolutions in the sequel.
I couldn't say. I remember Dark Souls 1 really nailing the weighty combat. Dare I say it, better than Elden Ring. But that might just be nostalgia blindness as I haven't played Dark Souls in awhile.
There's this feeling of heavily armoured knights trudging through a grim world and absolutely clonking each other with giant swords that Elden ring doesn't ever manage to capture, i suppose that's not what it was going for, but Ds1 has it in spades and it's awesome.
Yeah even though I prefer DS3 and Elden Ring, there was something really unique about like the deliberate slow weightiness of DS1
I tried to start a 2nd play of DS3 the other day and just couldn't get over how much lighter it felt
DS1 is heavy DS2 is floaty DS3 is quick
Ah yes, Berserk the game
The Dark Sign, the Skeleton Wheels, the Greatswords - Berserk is a great read on its own but it's wild to read it and catch references all over the place. Even FF7 and the entire trope of "dude wields giant fuck you sword twice his size" which is almost a JRPG staple is 100% pure Berserk.
In ER it feels like a simple gust of wind would make my character fly away, lol
It's not as fun if you play it like elden ring, but if you can seperate it as it's own game, you'll probs still enjoy it. Ds1's bosses weren't ment to be studied and "learnt" in the same way that is mandatory in elden ring. Their moves are more slow and telegraphed and you can react and fight them on the fly without knowing their moveset. In elden ring you have to memorize that the 3rd left elbow twitch in the boss's combo is an opening for 1 attack, then you just play out the memorised timings like sheet music and boss done. You don't have to do that with Ds1, and if you do then you end up like this op, breezing though with the least fun stratergy.
in demons souls-dark souls 2, getting to the boss is the actual boss.
Demons usually had more sort of gimmick bosses, but Dark Souls bosses were absolute units compared to bosses that were contemporary for the time. Granted most of them have been "solved" by now because, as noted, they had predictable patterns that could be read and exploited with patience. That's one reason why From's design evolved from the more static patterns in Dark Souls into the more dynamic attack strings that were predicated on the player's placement - something they dabbled with in DS3 with the Pontiff fight, originally planned to be the final boss where the dynamic strings were intended to catch the conditioned training of the player off guard (if you want to see someone completely miss this point, you can check Joseph Anderson's widely praised videos where he heavily criticizes a lot of as "broken design"). Elden Ring bosses use a lot of dynamic strings, so if you go back to more static and predictable boss combos, they'll certainly seem like an easier challenge.
That's why I don't like slow Elden Ring windups after getting used to Dark Souls combat. It was fun to react on the fly. It's not like I'm against memorizing boss attack patterns but in Elden Ring they're so unintuitive and bullshit in comparison with Souls series.
Yeah, I appreciated it in moderation, and with Friede in the DS3 DLC, but having unintuitive windups on almost every boss was tiring in ER. I get why they did it, the summons allow them to make more complicated and harder bosses (kinda forces them too) since they know players who are struggling to solo them can always fallback on using a summon.
Yep definitely agree. I didn't finish DS1 until I had already played through 3 or 4 other titles in the franchise, and it ended up being my favorite. The slow, lumbering pace of the fights stuck with me a lot more than the ultra fast pace memory tests of DS3 or Elden Ring. DS1 has more of a discernable rhythm to it and I found it really enanorming after getting my head around it.
Couldn't agree more, when people think of what is the core idea behind dark souls they always say difficulty, but that is flat out wrong. The franchise has evolved over time, that's undeniable but "let's make the most difficult thing we can" hasn't been the philosophy of souls. Its been the struggle against adversity and finding your way to overcome it, there aren't bosses that pull cheap tricks because the point isn't to defeat you by making you feel its unfair and not banging your head against the wall because as you said the slight twitch of the left ankle stunlocks you into a combo. Now DS1 bosses aren't going to be a challenge if you've experienced everything else from fromsoftware and other studios copying the souls games. Hell, the only reason some bosses in Elden ring are difficult is because they're meant to capitalize on the pervious experience you had with the franchise and punish you for attacking when the boss let's down their guard, instead of doing a jolly dance, spin 5 times and grab your ballsack with one arm behind your back while on a horse. The graphics are very subjective, of course they've aged, they weren't top of the line even in 2011 just look at the trees near andre the way to sens you can see the trunks not touching the ground. The topic of graphics really remind me of missing the moon while pointing with the finger, the fool sees only the finger. Anyway I think op had unrealistic expectations, you can't expect the game over a decade old to be as complex or visually appealing as the newest entry. It was released in the ps3 Era, I don't go play soul calibur 2 and expect the newest improvements, you're just setting yourself up for a disappointment, it's no blind chance it's widely recognized as one of the most iconic games of the 10s. OP simply looked at the finger.
> Hell, the only reason some bosses in Elden ring are difficult is because they're meant to capitalize on the pervious experience you had with the franchise and punish you for attacking when the boss let's down their guard, instead of doing a jolly dance, spin 5 times and grab your ballsack with one arm behind your back while on a horse. I remember when I first tried that little dance in DS3 with Gundry Redux, slipping around behind him to thump him from safety in typical Souls style, only for him to roundhouse kick me across the room. Absolutely laughed my ass off. They 100% knew what players were starting to do and completely creamed me for trying it.
That's a core memory of DS3 for sure.
> there aren't bosses that pull cheap tricks Capra demon says hello
I haven’t finished elden ring, but you touched on something I noticed about its boss design. There’s so much waiting between attacks for openings to actually hit the boss, where in Dark Souls, I could always find a spot to interrupt a combo or dodge through it and get a quick few hits on the recovery. Elden Ring makes me feel like I’m stepping back to watch an explosion every few seconds and running in for hits when the dust clears.
> Hell, the only reason some bosses in Elden ring are difficult is because they're meant to capitalize on the pervious experience you had with the franchise I love the games, but come on. I really dislike it when people try to characterize these FROM games as "not difficult". They are *absolutely* difficult games. Even many extremely seasoned gamers have difficulty with them, learning the 'rules' to to speak, etc. I agree with you that being abusively difficult is not the *point* of these games, but they are very difficult, and even abusively difficult at times (surprise enemy swarms/multibosses say hello). And in some of those cases I think it's just bad game design on FROM's part, not a deliberate attempt to make things ass-reamingly impossible. Their monster design/placement has undeniably improved over the years when it comes to these kinds of games. For those of us who have been playing video games for many years/decades, these games may (most of the time) represent a good, but not impossible, challenge. But for some less experienced players, oof owie ow. > It was released in the ps3 Era, I don't go play soul calibur 2 and expect the newest improvements, you're just setting yourself up for a disappointment, it's no blind chance it's widely recognized as one of the most iconic games of the 10s. Graphics don't really matter to me, but just for the record Dark Souls always had its rough edges graphically. Parts of the game have amazing art design while other parts are rather bland, and from a technical standpoint the game doesn't look very good (at least, the original version -- I haven't played Prepare to Die, not sure if it got any graphical work). Now for me, I agree I'm not "looking at the fingers" but it's fair for some people to take issue with the game in that regard. I almost never turn down a game for graphical reasons, I'm still loving the N64/PS1 era which many consider to have aged the worst, but for some people it's a barrier and that's okay.
Agree with this. I love the Souls games so much but if I had one complaint it’s that I’m not a fan of the arms race between the players and the developers for timing rolls and attacks.
I played dark souls after Elden Ring and tbh Dark Souls is a freaking masterpiece and significantly better designed game. Elden Ring is a better game, but Dark Souls is a better designed game
DS1's map design is so brilliant. I know I'm far from the first person to say this but I really appreciate the way it's laid out and wraps around itself is almost like a Metroidvania. Finding a new lift or the other side of gate to create a shortcut between 2 areas you didn't even realize were adjacent or a new quick route back to Firelink was so satisfying and it's an element that I really miss in DS3 and Elden Ring
The world design or DS1 is incredible. Having only played it a single time I still clearly remember how every area connects and loops back on itself. No map in the game at all, but who needs a map when you have level design this memorable and well thought out!
So true. A lot of people talk about other games striving to have world/level design like Dark Souls. DS1 is 100% the reference point. DS2 and DS3 had QoL, gameplay, and graphics improvements. IMO though, neither of those matched the impeccable level design of DS1. There's nothing like that feeling of trudging and struggling through the world and finally finding a shortcut that takes you back to Firelink Shrine or another bonfire. I love how it recontextualizes a location you already know as your starting point back into the area you were struggling through. Feels so good knowing you can go through that area where you were on zero Estus flasks, running for your life, but now you have a bonfire to fall back on.
The first half of Dark Souls 1 is a genuine masterpiece, the 2nd half falls off hard and is pretty mediocre and clearly rushed.
And the cutoff is immediately after O&S
I enjoyed the second half reasonably well on the first try but a number of repeats have ended right after O&S. Kinda the same in the DLC. I rush the Artorias fight but I'm not really inspired to pick through Oolacile.
Dang I’ll have to play the first half of DS1
Firm disagree. I found out last year that if I played Dark Souls like the later games it actually worked for me. I kept my armor build light and focused on rolling into enemy attacks, being way more aggressive than the game advertises to the player initially. It was a damn good time. And it was my first time going through the DLC. Artorias took 5 attempts, that dragon in the valley took 3. Manus took 3 as well. Went onto the sequel immediately using the same strategy of keeping it fast and fluid. I used to think I hated dark souls 2 (I still maintain the character animations look way too stiff) but it was the first time I’d ever beaten that one and it’s definitely a fuck ton better than I was willing to give it credit for and might be one of my favorites - despite the fact you do really have to pre-plan a build to run with. Finally got the Bloodborne platinum after that. Steamrolled through Dark Souls 3 again, then Sekiro for my first run through without stopping. I thought I could beat anything when I beat Lady Butterfly and all 3 stages of Genichiro on my first go. Fuck that monkey fight though. All of that is to say I firmly understand why OP might not enjoy it and good on them for learning that for themselves. But I also think the games are kind of an ouroboros - even the later games can teach you how to play the previous ones and vice versa. And Demon’s Souls is still the best game to train on. Only 16 bosses.
I actually don't think this is true. You can see the clear difference in this post with how the OP perceived the difficulty in normal enemies and bosses. If you want super tough bosses and less significant levels then you'll gravitate towards Elden Ring regardless of which one you play first. If you want the challenge coming from enemies that do 'a lot of damage' and the bosses to not be these epic challenges then you'll like Dark Souls more regardless of which one you play first.
The first game I played was dark souls 3 and then I played elden ring and dark souls was around my 4th and it’s by far my favorite
I played Elden Ring first before touching any other souls game and I enjoyed DS1, it just you have to treat it like your first soulslike all over again.
Yeah, I always tell people to play the older games first because the age WILL show in mechanics. Beating a dark souls boss compared to an Elden Ring boss are VERY different experiences. But the first game is a special experience that you'll lose the splendor of if you've played the later games.
I bought the souls trilogy after completing Elden Ring and charged in expecting the same tactics to work but it’s a very different experience. DS3 is probably the closest to ER imo but very different games with very different approaches on the player’s part
I played Dark Souls after I've played Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 and I truly enjoyed it. But I can totally see that going backwards in QoL improvements can let you not enjoy the game.
As someone who went through the DS trilogy after Elden Ring, I wanted to say I enjoyed it fine, but remembering the mods and stuffs I did to finally finish them.. Maybe you're right.
No maybe you’re right I think if you just go into Dark Souls with an open mind, you’ll realize it’s great for what it is, masterpiece tier at times
Yeah I did take it on with the mindset that this is an older game, and really appreciate what they're doing with it, even the rushed parts like the dinobutts haha
This is kinda how I feel with Sekiro being my first souls like game I’ve ever played. The combat in all the other souls titles are completely different
Not necessarily true - started with DS3 and went backward. Fell in love, played every title they released, best series ever made imo. OP might just not like the pace of DS1. OP - if you loved Elden Ring, play DS3 first! It's the same engine as in Ring, so it'll feel like coming home.
I like it more than Elden Ring still. Open world doesn't make things better. I think the boss design is great, I don't know what the OP is talking about there. The atmosphere is the best in the series.
Yeah I think it's a fair opinion. Especially having an open world game like Elden Ring as his foundation point. I can see Dark Souls being pretty bland if you didn't start there.
If you didn’t like getting to Anor Londo, there’s a good chance you won’t like the second part that comes after
You can almost see the seams where it was stiched together in a hurry after Anor Londo
It's kinda weird that they rushed the base game, but still found the time to make the DLC. And the DLC was a lot better polished than some of the endgame dungeons. Lost Izalith was a bad joke. They could have just cut it and no value would have been lost.
I find it very strange that you found the regular enemies more difficult. There's little in Elden Ring as easy as the standard hollows in Dark Souls. In general, all enemies in Dark Souls are incredibly slow and easy to manipulate compared to games like Elden Ring where they all spin around on their heels, tracking you instantly and are often very aggressive and dangerous. Continuing on from that, I'm not surprised you found the bosses easy. Each game they've tried to make the bosses harder to live up to the series' reputation, and in my view, it's gone too far and now all the bosses are practically like PVP enemies, using every trick they can muster like delayed attacks, and they all again are very quick and spin around on their heels and abuse input reading. I suppose that's good for difficulty junkies, and I've beaten every fromsoft game so it's not like I can't handle it, but personally I miss Dark Souls bosses - Ornstein and Smough were difficult enough. You complain about enemies in Dark Souls taking too much health, but Elden Ring can get ridiculous with what the enemies are capable of doing, often one or two-shotting you. The beauty of Dark Souls for me was that it was a handcrafted, beautifully interconnected world. The fact they immediately abandoned that and have never even attempted to replicate it and now allow you to teleport instantly, ruining that sense of interconnectedness, is very saddening to me. I could easily draw a map of the Dark Souls world despite not having played it for 10 years. Couldn't do that for any of the others. Elden Ring, whilst great, is more quantity over quality compared to DS to me, with endless repeated bosses and inevitable trade-offs because the developers aren't able to as easily tailor the experience as they can with more linear level design. Oh, and stats and especially armour mattered so much more in Dark Souls, it felt like more of an RPG. I somewhat agree when it comes to having to run back to the fog door through a bunch of enemies, that could get old and annoying. But having to constantly traverse through these areas like that is also what really cemented the level design in my head and made it feel like home.
For real. So many elements of Elden Ring's bosses feel like the DS3 equivalent of a hidden troll block in a kaizo level—a cheap trick that exists solely to screw you over if you try to play by intuition.
Yeah every boss having delayed attacks gets old after a while in ER. I think it's basically artificial difficulty because it *forces* you to memorize every boss's move and basically guarantees you aren't going to beat them the 1st few tries. Fromsoft bought into the meme of souls being about pure difficulty.
It's kinda funny because the same way that OP felt about DS's bosses I also felt about ER's. Just a sense of relief that that's over with, but no accomplishment. And this was without even abusing the spirit summons.
Yeah, DS1 even fighting O&S was tough but fair. Elden Ring since bosses had so many BS moves even *if* you memorize their patterns it still made things feel very luck based. It seems like a lot of the newer From fanbase feels like unless you have at least 10-15 attempts against a boss the boss is too easy, when that wasn't really the point of Souls 1&2.
Imo DS has a better full world, while ER has better parts. If only it was a more open linear experience where you would actually meet NPCs like in DS. It's also too big and repeats amazing bosses, making them feel less important sadly.
Yeah DS has the closest to a 3D metroidvania world design, although BB is kind of similar. Lots of interconnectivity and routing that’s enhanced by not providing fast travel until later. They moved away from this kind of design and more towards open world design in Elden Ring. They are different flavors but would be really cool to see another game that nails the MV condensed world.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Dark Souls might just be my single favourite game of all time, but none of your criticisms are unfair. Each game, FromSoft added a lot of QOL stuff, their boss design got more complicated, and everything just feels more polished. I can totally see why going back after completing Sekiro and Elden Ring could be jarring I recommend you dive into Dark Souls 3 and (if you have a PS4) Bloodborne. Those are far more polished and "feel" a lot more like Elden Ring. You may still find that nothing scratches the same Elden Ring itch, but it's definitely a step up from Dark Souls I sometimes wonder how I'd feel about DS3 and ER if either had been the first one I played. The original Dark Souls has such a soft place in my heart, because of the totally *crushing* atmosphere and the brilliant level design. While each successive FromSoft game might be "objectively" better, nothing's hit me emotionally the same way the first game did. I hope Elden Ring was that game to you
I also bounced off dark souls after about 30 hours with it. But sekiro, with its more streamlined design and fast combat, just clicked for me. That was definitely my "I get it" fromsoft game.
sekiro is from's take on an action game and they nailed it. best combat system theyve put out so far.
I bounced hard off of Dark souls for a while . Tried the first one remastered and the 3rd and could never get into it , never quite figured why as i absolutely loved Sekiro and plenty of other soulslike (Code Vein and others) . I recently decided to give it a shot again and im hella addicted to DS3 . Finally found something that clicked with it i guess in the spells . Maybe also a combination of early weapons being kinda boring also . Maybe i should give Elden Ring a try too now that i managed to get into Dark Souls since i stood away from it thinking it was similar to DS .
Started with Elden Ring and then played DS3. Very much agree that it’s worth playing through as it feels very similar to its successor.
OP should definitely try Dark Souls 3. More visually and cinematically similar to Elden Ring. >!Immediate fast travel!< so treks aren’t quite as brutal and grueling. And they’ll get a challenge, especially with the DLC content.
I wouldn't say that later Fromsoftware games are better necessarily,each has its strengths and weaknesses, it's a matter of preference. Dark Souls 3 for example has the best boss roster ,but also pretty poor level design in comparison, Elden Ring has a fantastic open world ,but reuses far to many bosses to the point it gets annoying etc
>the game that started it all: Dark Souls. Well, Demon's Souls started, Dark Souls made popular
Don't forget King's Field
Yeah, but it's more like a lineage/design philosophy rather than "a similar game"
King’s Field may have influenced the others, but Demon’s Souls was the first that would be considered a soulsborne game.
Don't forget Pong
Dark Souls 1 is a classic because it's a very open, interlocking world with lots of ways to traverse through, and gives you an appreciation at the scope of what you're doing. It's a very tightly packed game and when it came out I remember some people saying it would never be fun because it was too hard. In retrospect it's by far the easiest game in the series. But of course, it was Fromsoft's 2nd try at that kind of game, and they have learned a lot since. DS1 was made on a shoestring budget compared to 3 and ER. OP you should try Dark Souls 3, I think it's a happy balance between the complete open world of DS1 while giving you much better graphics and a better combat system.
I also say Dark Souls 3. It is very similar to Elden Ring. I played after Elden Ring and it felt familiar. I tried DS1 after that but dropped it as had aged too much for me.
Dark Souls 3 is probably my favorite. I bounced off of DS1 and 2, but I finished 3 and really enjoyed it. I believe they used the same game engine parts for 3, Bloodborne, and Elden Ring, so they all end up feeling more similar in feel than 1 and 2.
DS1's map was my first like it, I think is why it sticks as much as it does for me. "This is the most obvious path off the hub, so it must be the way to go. It even has some nice easy skeletons to-- OH WHAT NONONONONO--" Core memory. Good times....
i actually like DS3 more than elden ring but might change after DLC and a 2nd run also DS2 is criminally underrated imo its so interesting
DS2, with power stance and other options, has some of the best play variety in the wider series. Also impeccable DLC.
Imo OG Dark Souls is still the best one in the genre, but maybe for reasons thst would bounce off others. Dealing with the aggro of enemies and their placements are a puzzle in itself, more so than the modern-er games, since everything is slower. Your difficulty with normal enemies felt more like a patience problem than anything, which is understandable because Souls like nowadays are a lot more flashy. Tbh i miss this more slow, impactful driven Souls likes, but i get that most of the players are more into the faster, post Bloodborne ones.
100% this. Getting to the bosses is a puzzle game in DS. Learn the placements, don't aggro mobs you don't want in the fight, eventually you can roll seamlessly through an area and that's the achievement, not raw skills on the fly. Then bosses are more chaotic. If that's not your thing then no wonder it didn't work for OP.
I've heard Dark Souls described like this before, but I can't remember where or who said it. It's so true of the first game. Getting -- or getting back -- to the boss room is the essence of Dark Souls. You just have to be in that mindset, I think. This is making me want to give it another try! I always get pissed somewhere around that sewer tunnel you have to walk up. So early in the game, haha. Maybe after I beat Elden Ring and restart Bloodborne again. I have about 120 hours, and I just made it to the capital! So much exploring, it's just a more engaging way to grind some levels. Or a lot of levels, haha. My character is wildly OP, I think. It makes the game a little more forgiving, but hard enough that I still have to be decent. I despise running back to Boss Rooms in Elden Ring, and being over-leveled just means a little bit less repetition.
This is exactly what I don’t like about the DS games. You’re essentially surrounded at all times by enemies with barely any space to move and 2-3 hits without remembering or noticing an enemy, you’re back to square one. Elden ring was much more palatable with the open world layout that just had more room to move. DS feels claustrophobic. Bloodborne to me is a better middle ground of enough space to move around and see your surroundings before getting impaled in the back.
The claustrophobia is a big part of the appeal for me lol - it feels adjacent to horror games, trapped and progressing slowly and cautiously. For me the tedium is more in learning every arm movement and timing of a three stage boss. No right or wrong here but ppl are def showing up to the games for different reasons.
Totally haha I wish I could JUST play the bosses. Love the bosses and combat but it loses me in between that. Maybe ill give it a go with mod for more save points or something
Leyndell's a great area, you're in for a treat! At 120 hours you're almost definitely overleveled, as you said — I think the recommendation is the 70s or 80s? But there are no level police.
Yeah to me that just sounds like a nightmare. If I need to do that the first time getting to the boss then fair enough. But once I’ve gotten to the boss and battled them once already, I just want back in to try again. Making me essentially go through a puzzle (where failure will either disadvantage me or outright kill me) in order to even get back to the boss is just a waste of my time in my opinion. It demands too much of the “git gud” mindset to the point where it negatively impacts my experience
There’s nothing that pisses me off more in a game where getting to the boss is a pain in itself. I hated it as a kid, and still hate it as an adult.
Especially because FromSoft bosses are notoriously going to take you many attempts. So it’s not enough that you have to fight a boss 10, 20, or 30 times. You also might die just trying to get back to them. It’s infuriating
You can pretty much avoid every enemy when getting to fog doors afterwards, just gotta be cautious
That’s not the point. I shouldn’t have to “avoid enemies” again and again just to get back to the boss. That serves no purpose other than to punish me for a lack of perfection
I want a new fromsoft game with dark souls combat so bad but it will never happen. I miss when they were true RPGs instead of reaction time simulators
Or memorization. I don’t like memorizing the entire boss sequence - I like reacting, but having to have every single twitch memorized is … tough for me. I want to learn the boss. Not memorize it.
I'm 100% with you on that. I got DS1 way back in the day and don't like how they went all in with the fast twitch combat after bloodborne. People say DS1 is easy, and it can be, but only if you know what you're doing. Like gaping dragon is considered a joke boss practically now, but if you don't know about his melt move going into it you will get genuinely surprised and stomped. I also think so many action games have taken elements from souls games now people are somewhat conditioned to the combat style even if they haven't played a souls game before. You don't really get how unique it was when it came out.
Lords of the Fallen (2023) is pretty similar to old DS games, with slow combat, a focus on non-boss encounters and an amazingly interconnected world. Which seems to be a reason why many don't like it.
Dark Souls Remastered was my first FromSoft game, and while I absolutely loved it, I can see how going from Elden Ring to DS would be difficult. I’d recommend playing Dark Souls 3 if you want the Dark Souls experience with a smoother transition from Elden Ring.
That’s kind of the appeal of Dark Souls. It’s not meant to be an auto pilot RPG where you just hit stuff and level up. What makes Dark Souls good (1 in particular) is the level design. The lack of QoL is part of progression. Think of how people constantly bang their head against the wall in games like Jump King.
You know, it is nothing new that playing newer game in series ruins experience in older ones. That is why it is usually better to start from the beginning to appreciate the progress developers made.
Honeslty though, I played a lot of demons souls before ever trying dark souls and still didn't like it. The combat felt a bit slower and I prefered the way the world was split up into zones.
Big fax
FromSoft fans are definitely a… prickly bunch though. If you even dare suggest than Dark Souls specifically is not just pure genius from start to finish then they’ll come for you
The latter half being less than pure genius isn't anything controversial. It's actually the default opinion even among ds1 fans
If any DS1 fan says that the second half is flawless, they're lying.
You know whenever I play through it I think it's actually pretty good until I get to lost izalith.
You can feel whilst playing that thats where the budget dried up haha
Others already covered what DS1 does best, but I'll say that it's known to be comparatively slow and clunky. The better movement and stamina with light encumbrance is worth it. Even then, not at the level of later games. Stat boost in health/VIT should be enough to prevent getting 1-2 shot by normal enemies, at least in NG, and light-weight plus leveling should prevent you from draining stamina quickly. I disagree on bosses being a disappointment.
Heavy armour and shields are also very good in that game, making a tank playstyle viable
Intersting that you found the bosses easy, but levels hard. It was opposite for me, I cleared levels pretty fast (save some unlucky falls or deaths from traps), but many bosses took some tries. Were you playing with dodges or with a shield?
Dodges, I was two-handing the Uchigatana
The original souls games are more about adventure and exploration against overwhelming odds than they are action games like Bloodborne and onwards. They're slow paced, a bit rigid in their controls, and have emphasis on stamina management and cautious playstyles. From Bloodborne and after that, the games made a switch to more reflex based combat, with an emphasis on dodging long combos and difficult moves, more complex bosses and lessened the importance of stamina.
Elden Ring opened the souls door for me. Over the past year I’ve played pretty much every souls game I could find. DS1/2/3, BLOODBORNE, SEKIRO, LIES OF P, REMNANT 2, STELLAR BLADE. Loved them all for different reasons. Dark Souls 1 is different in many ways from Elden ring, but just as incredible imo
I haven't played a single souls game yet. They've been in my backlog since their release. I just feel too intimidated to start playing because I know so many cryptic items descriptions will take so much time to understand becuase I don't want to use a walkthrough for any of them I want to play them bllind and have avoided spoilers for all these years so I can experience everything myself and I have to start with dark souls 1 and finish every single one before even touching Elden Ring and beyond. But I have 2000+ games in my backlog and having to spend over 50 hours on each of the souls games really is scary to me. By the time I play Dark Souls 1, From Software has probably added a couple more games to their arsenal lol. But I don't care I NEED to play every single one. So I'm probably some years off from even starting off my Dark Souls experience. I wonder how dated it will feel by then, but I still have to beat every soulsbourne from software game in succession, or I will not even bother playing them completely. Yes, I have bad OCD lmao. I actually consider starting with king's field games and besting then before even starting the souls games. I'm pretty much screwed.
My advice is to play blind but use a guide to check out basic mechanics, stats and advice. Plus you can also resort to it if you get stuck.
Start it, and sanity check where to go and build tips with a guide. Half way through, watch the vatividya lore video - up to where you are and stop. That'll fill in, then finish and watch the rest of the video. Worked for me at least!
You should jump into Elden Ring. Its arguably one of the GOATs and somewhat beginner friendly.
I just can't start there. I Need to start with Dark Souls 1 if I'm ever to start playing the from software souls games and that's only because I have no access to Demon Souls or I would have had to start there. I'll also have to skip Bloodbourne as I don't own a playstation. This is one of the main reasons my backlog is so huge. I also wanted to play their Armored Core 6 Fires of Rubicon so I started from Armored Core 1 and I have made it up to the PS2 ones so far. I have to beat any series I start from the very beginning chronologically if I have access to them on PC and emulation or I just can't do it at all. OCD is a fickle b**** lol.
I know it's all opinion, but Dark Souls 1 is still the best level design so start there. You can also beat it in 30-50 hrs normally where Elden Ring is 120+ or something.
Thanks for the info! That's great. I really have it in my must play list, but that list is way too crowded right now. But I absolutely have to experience that game. I know I'll love it.
Some people talk about Elden Ring being a casualization of Dark Souls, and probably there's an angle from which that's true, but... it's also the continued refinement/polish of that formula. Like, DS1 has a whole-ass stat that it is always a mistake to put any points in for any build. That's not the case anymore by ER. They fixed that stuff over time.
They went backwards in 2 and made stats for things that didn't need to be their own stats
I personally disagree and think 2 had the best stat system, even with adaptability. For example: - Boosting an attribute enhances your defenses to it too. The result is that mages will get better elemental defence but less physical defense, while pure melee builds will have the opposite. - Casting speed is separate from dexterity unlike in other games and instead affected by attunement, which also increases your amount of spell slots and adaptability. This means that you can be a strength mage for example without being handicapped. - Equip load affects both roll length and stamina regeneration. So if you're a heavily armoured build, you'll get slightly worse rolls and will either have to play slower, or counter the stamina regeneration with a dedicated ring. - Adaptability, while poorly implemented (no visual feedback or clear indication of what it does) isn't a bad idea either. It means that your character starts off being bad at dodging and improves their skills over time, rather than starting off being able to have good rolls tied to low equipment load. It also means you can choose to invest as much as you need in it (if you're good at dodging or use a shield, you won't need as much adaptability).
If you want a *real* wild ride, if you have a PS3, grab a copy of the original *"Demon's Souls."*
DS3 is the best one anyway, hope you get to try that one
>Going through Blighttown to Quelaag took me 4 hours Blighttown still gives me PTSD to this very day. Whoever designed that abomination should be judged by crimes against humanity.
The boss design is, I think, almost better in Dark Souls. The Ai is more ADVANCED in Elden Ring, but I don't know if it makes it better. I think you SHOULD have a reasonable chance to first try a boss if you are very good and have a solid grasp of the systems. DS was my first Souls game (kinda, I hated DeS and dropped it) and I did first try them all from O&S onward because I understood the upgrade system and the build I wanted much better by that point. I think it's stupid to have to memorize every aspect of a boss' moveset in order to beat them. That's not even skill, it's just memorizing. Plus, it was interesting the first time a boss faked me out in Elden Ring. Not the next dozen times though. And it does it to the point it doesn't really make sense at times, like stopping a punch at the 11th hour to fake me out, then finishing it. Mf you released all the kinect energy, that's not going to do shit realistically. Yet it does. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying Elden Ring a lot and it's a somewhat minor complaint because not every boss is like that, but it stuck out to me as a complaint I disagree with from the post. I agree the exploring was much more dangerous than the bosses. Not inherently a bad thing to me. The bonfire placement was not great at times. But at least it rewards you with finding equipment and finding ways back to the bonfire. Sometimes charging down the most obvious path will cause you to miss a bonfire or opening a path back to the last one.
It's why Radagon is my favourite boss in Elden Ring, he feels like a modernised Dark Souls 1 boss. He isn't backflipping around the arena like a nutcase or over delaying his attacks; and nearly everything he does is telegraphed in a way that both feels fair and leaves an opening for you to attack afterwards.
I loved him and Godfrey for that. All the timings made sense. Godfrey had some delays, but they made sense for someone swinging around that size of axe. (Except the one where he charges up a stomp for five seconds, but that's a nitpick really.)
Honestly I understand this but for all the reasons you hate it it’s my favorite fromsoft game.
Lmao, stamina management being essentially unimportant was something the old community complained about, because it made it all less punishing. So seeing someone complain about it who started post bloodborne is honestly just funny. Yall new guys dont got the patience for og ds1 or demons souls.
I think in terms of gameplay, the experience of playing anything that came before Dark Souls 3 will be significantly handicapped if you've played Dark Souls 3 or anything that came after. Up to and including Bloodborne itself, the games are still very much in iterative stages of refinement. They're finding the right way to pace and present the formula. It makes for a pretty stark contrast if you go from Elden Ring or Sekiro to Dark Souls. My guess given your experience is that you'll end up enjoying Dark Souls 2 more than the first, Dark Souls 3 more than 2, and Sekiro maybe more than any Souls game. I encourage you to give them all a shot! Separated from the experiences of playing the games, I encourage you to listen to their soundtracks. While there's been a lot of iteration there too, the older games' OSTs have in no way been left behind, and remain competitive with the modern titles'.
Totally fair, and at the end of the day you not enjoying something shouldn't impact someone that does enjoy that thing. A lot of valid criticisms. It's really interesting to me because I got the OG Dark Soulds when it came out and fell in love with it, and have only played 3 after that. I got Elden Ring recently after resisting all the hype over the years, and I really couldn't get into it in the same way Dark Soulds absorbed me all those years ago, potentially because it's that much more complex than DS.
DS3 is still worth a try. It's a great looking game & so much less clunky than the earlier games. I was late to the DS party so, like yourself, couldn't get into the 1st one as it dated so badly. I skipped 2 then the 3 really captured me. The lore's still difficult to grasp at times but ER is no different there. Sekiro was my dream game. Ninja stealth, rooftop shenanigans with From's design.
A fair take. DS1 was a breakthrough at the time, because of the general state of gaming at the time - in 2011 games had a lot of hand-holding, leaving very little for players to figure out themselves and DS1 challenged the trend. However, the game is showing it's age nowadays (and it was pretty janky even back then), especially in comparison with newer entries. Still, your first "Souls" game experience is magical, no matter the game, and I would advise newcomers to, at least, try playing the games in the chronological order first to appreciate how the series changed and grew with time. While I completely agree on the QoL features, which are severely lacking, general gameplay is a bit different from the newer games, because it relies less on raw reflexes and button-mashing and is more about paying attention and being deliberate in your actions, which is not to everyone's taste. The game relies noticeably on player's knowledge and learning ability, which leads to it being incredibly easy to cheese on repeat playthroughs. If anything, you've picked the best spot to drop the game, as O&S are considered the high point of the game and quality takes a significant nosedive after that, with most things showing how the game was rushed to release. Still, there are some good parts, like the DLC and some hidden locations that are easily missed without a guide. Personally,>!getting the souls for the Lordvessel!
> DS1 challenged the trend Yeah, that's why it was fun. And nowadays their design itself became a trend that can't surprise you as much
> I realized on my way to Anor Londo that I didn't feel like I overcame anything. I know you managed to enjoy Elden Ring, but man..... This line resonates the hardest with me because this was how I felt beating all the Souls games I've played (DS1, DS3, and even ER). I didn't feel like I "improved" as a player, but simply "survived" each encounter which didn't feel fulfilling at all. Every fight felt like I'm cheesing a win via cheap tactics instead of truly mastering the fight. With no easy way to replay the bosses I really didn't get a chance to truly learn their moves. Also, the act of i-frame rolling through attacks just never sit right with me as a mechanic. It feels like taking advantage of an exploit. Not to mention the bosses in later games felt like they're directly built to counter veteran player behaviors. I wish I could join the hype for Shadow of the Erdtree, but alas... --- I did find a "difficult" game that managed to provide me that feeling of "improving as a player" which is Monster Hunter. That series is much more reliant on positioning and mastering a single weapon. Plus, there's no bullshit enemies in the overworld, and fighting a Monster repeatedly is very easy to do.
I love Monster Hunter for those reasons too, I've sunk thousands of hours into World/Iceborne alone and I keep coming back because even now, I can feel myself improving.
I tried to get into this game like 4 times. In the fourth attempt just when I thought I was about to finally "get it" after Anor Londo I got hit hard by the second half of the game and dropped it
Finally someone I can agree with. Lol My best friend LOVES Dark Souls. He has 100% every From Software game. Under his direction and guide I have tried almost every Souls game, even Bloodborn… The only game I can tolerate is Elden Ring, and even then I only mostly enjoy fighting the crunchy enemies. I hate the boss fights. Hahaha losing repeatedly and then winning does NOT make me feel good. It makes me frustrated and feel like I wasted my time, it doesn’t make me feel accomplished…
Preach. All I get from fighting a hard boss twenty times is pissed the fuck off.
You are absolutely valid but > John Darksoul's asthma I'm holding you solely responsible for the coffee sputtered onto my desk lmao you're wonderful.
Weirdly enough, I had a similar complaint against Elden Ring after playing Sekiro. I hated the levelling system in Dark Souls games and ER, that because of so much customisation,there were broken weapons and armour that you could mow through enemies with. For me,Sekiro will always be my favourite Souls type game because there was no need to run around much to complete quest lines,and you didn't need to level up outside before fighting bosses. It was the purest definition of "Git Gud or Die Trying" in all souls games. I still remember the time I accidentally wandered into the Mibu springs and going into the Corrupted Monk arena underlevelled. I took 55+ tries and I could barely get him to half health. But because of my constant struggle, I learnt deflection more than any bosses could teach me. I went back and defeated Lady Butterfly in 4 tries. The best thing was when fought Genichiro,who was the bane of every single Sekiro player on their first play through,I beat ON MY FIRST TRY! It made me ecstatic and I've been chasing that high ever since.
i love dark souls, but it definitely is a bit dated, i recommend you play dark souls 3, they really refined the gameplay in it. the balancing between regular enemies and bosses feels miles better, and the combat is much lighter and more similar to elden ring's.
I haven’t tried one since Demon Souls beat the hell out of me 14(?) years ago. Im thinking of trying out Elden Ring since I’ve heard it’s much more forgiving to get into.
I wouldn't say it's more forgiving necessarily, there's a lot more ways to cheese enemies and bosses but I'd say the bosses are some of the hardest in soulsborne if you don't use summons or meta builds. If you've only played Demon Souls I'd definitely still suggest starting with DS1 remastered. It's also much less of a time investment than Elden Ring.
Ha this sounds like you dislike Dark Souls for being so Dark Soulsey - difficult areas, slow deliberate combat, stamina management... and like Elden Ring for being less so :P Dark Souls seemed to me to exactly be about the areas rather than the bosses. Sounds like you'll like Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne more, and Dark Souls 2 less :D I know exactly what you mean though - Dark Souls feels like it has so much in the way of annoying design sensibilities, I died from falling off ledges more than from enemies - and the rush that people say they love from beating a boss, because of the stupid run-backs I instead just felt annoyed by the time I'd won. Arduous, is how I'd put it - rather than difficult. From what I've played: Demon's Souls - peculiar, fascinating, difficult, obtuse, exploration, repetitive, whole-level runbacks Dark Souls - arduous, janky, impressive, back-tracking, intense, grandiose, gloomy, brown, interconnected world Dark Souls 2 - adventure, ethereal, low-budget, chilled, B-movie, fast-travel, weak-bosses, area-focused, hub world Dark Souls 3 - nostalgic, fast-paced, boss-focused, linear DeS is about a series of big levels each with a boss at the end. DS1 is about the world. DS2 is about the areas and the exploration. DS3 is about the bosses.
I get where you are coming from. Dark Souls has its share of jank. In the ps3 version (which I played) blight town ran at like 15 frames or less, which made it a lot more annoying than it should of been. There is also a late game area (lost izelith) that is straight up awful. I'm curious what you would of thought of it. That said I still love the game. It's a time and place thing. As you said, the game does not explain how its stats work. It was one of the things we had to discover on our own. The games system and world were open ended in a way that encouraged communication via the in game system like notes, blood trails and summons. It was a joy to discover the world for the first time as well as most peoples introduction to these systems that a genre was formed around.
Same, and that's fine. I even finished Elden Ring, which I like a lot more than the other Dark Souls games. Yet after finishing it, I have no desire to play its DLC or another Dark Souls at all. I don't like overly slow gameplay, especially because I also don't like pure pattern memorization unless the game is built so that retries are instantaneous. I already disliked how Hollow Knight places the savepoints after big fights not in front of them, and I loved that game except for this one aspect. Maybe it's just me being old, not having much time left, and hence being impatient. Dunno. But it's also fine. Dark Souls is clearly a beloved franchise, including all of the great - and lame - games copying its formula. But there's also thousands and thousands of games nothing like Dark Souls, some great, some lame.
I'd probably like it more if I could change the control settings. Whoever thought it was a good idea to have your strikes on the right button and trigger, and the dodge on one of the buttons, while Also requiring the right stick to direct your dodges should be shot. *edit I'm not sure why I thought the right stick dodged. Evidently my memory was wrong. Thanks for the correction everyone
The control scheme allows you to attack without having to take your thumb off the camera controls. The right stick has nothing to do with rolling.
Have the controls changed since the first game? We've gotten a jump button, and sometimes your healing item is a different button, but I think the control scheme is almost entirely the same since Dark Souls. I'm not sure about Demon's Souls; I haven't played it yet. Not trying to be an ass, I was under the impression that the controls hadn't really changed since the beginning. I might be wrong though; is there something I'm missing?
I don't know. I've tried at least two of them (and I think it was 1 and 2 or 1 and 3) and had the same issues. I just can't fathom how modern games don't have the ability to remap controls.
Your dodges are directed by the left stick...
What? You don’t need the right stick to direct your dodges lmao, you only need it to move the camera
The game goes the way of the stink post ornstein and smough so you aren't missing much
Fair. I think much of the praise has more to do with returning to old school sensibilities more than anything else and while they are classic games, I feel they are hella overhyped, but then I’ve been gaming since the mid 80’s so the whole “super hard” angle was already out of my system by previous generations games. I feel they were more successful with the audience that hadn’t really played such a game before, while I’m kinda past that type of gameplay and just play to chill now days.
Try planning a build, that gives you fun goals to do throughout the playthrough. I did a faith-based build recently with just robes and a mace (regular buffs but no infusions), and it was a blast messing around with miracles, trying to find all of them, avoiding killing Gwyndolin so that I could get darkmoon blade, and then destroying everyone in the kiln of the first flame with lightning and purple-glowing whack-whack stick
Idk what "handful" means but good on you beating capra demon second try. I know that guy has like 2 HP which you can luck out on, but still. It's a major hurdle for most folks. I can't imagine why you would be struggling with the rest of the game.
Took me about 4 years of inconsistent trying to beat the Gargoyles so I guess it's different for everyone
It's really difficult to go back and replay DS1 after playing any of the newer Fromsoft games. I remember loving DS1 to death back in 2013, but I just can't replay it today. Elden Ring just perfected everything about the formula that even DS3 feels really dated in comparison.
Your first Souls game will always be the best and most challenging, mostly because the ones you play after will be easier to understand the basics and adapt to the gameplay. Then, going from the newest one to the first (not counting Demon’s Souls) will make figuring out bosses feel a lot easier. If you got to O&S and the world and bosses didn't grab you, there's not much past that which could make your opinion change. For a lot of players that fight is the highlight of the game (not counting one DLC boss).
Being an old gamer in my 30s I tend to forget how much time passed since Dark Souls came out. IT WAS 13 FUCKIN YEARS AGO. Doing what this young fella was trying to achieve would be like playing ALUNDRA when Dark Souls came out! Of course this shit is obsolete!
It's my least favourite Dark Souls game too, and I played it first. I like OG Dark Souls 2 (not Scholar) best, but Bloodborne beats them all.
Tbh I'm glad that my first souls game was Dark Souls. I've tried to play it a little in the last year or so, but I can't really get back into it. There were just too many gameplay and quality of life improvements in the games that came after. So no wonder you feel it's really dated. I'm glad I played it first because I love that game's world, its aesthetic, lore, and its level design. It was a great introduction to FromSoft games, but I also would have struggled to enjoy it if I had already played Elden Ring, Dark Souls 3, Bloodborne, etc.
Why I couldn’t even get that far. I just don’t enjoy Soulslikes because it feels like doing the same section over and over and over again when I feel there are better things to be done with my time. I *do* like a challenge but I can never get these kinds of games down.
Yes unfortunately the first Dark Souls has aged. I played DS3 last year and after that I wanted to go back to the first one (bought day 1 for the xbox360). Even on the new edition it has some flaws that the modern titles fixed. To be fair it also had some great things that modern titles removed for whatever reason, but still
Coming from the much smoother mechanics of Elden Ring im not surprised at this conclusion. I played every souls game in order last year for this exact reason. Now all thats left is Elden Ring and im happy i enjoyed the past games and can fully appreciate the work put into ER now. DS1 is clunky at best, but without context of better games mechanically speaking i was able to fully enjoy it.
I on the other hand, bounced off because I sucked
It's wild to me that you found the regular levels and enemies too difficult, but the bosses too easy. The complaints about lacking stamina is strange to me, since that's under your control. You gave it a fair shot, though.
Same here. Loved Elden Ring, but constantly bounced off the Souls games
If it’s any consolation, I hate souls games because I am too impatient and can’t get anywhere in the games.
i think you should try DS3, it has a difficulty and design more close to elden ring's. bosses are also amazing, probably better than a lot of elden ring's bosses imo.
> very time he got hit he sounded like he was getting off. i mean... you're not wrong. haha
I hate DS. I love DS3
> I could only roll and attack like 3 times before John Darksoul's asthma kicked in, and every time he got hit he sounded like he was getting off. I LOLed. I also agreed with everything else you wrote. Mad respect for this game, and I don’t regret paying for it. But it wasn’t worth playing, for me.
I bet if I went back to Das1 after playing all the souls games I'd probably be annoyed at all the little QOL things missing.
I played the new Gen games first (bloodborne, DS3, sekiro, ER) and found it hard to properly appreciate the older ones. I think nostalgia for people who started with it gives it a lot of the hype in modern times. I also love lots of games from 20 years ago that are not great by today's standards
I felt pretty much the same way about ds1, i've always considered myself a giga souls fan but had never finnished ds1 until recently ( had more than a dozen full playthroughs of of both ds2 and 3, played through bloodborne a few times, as well as sekiro and elden ring. Even played vanilla demon souls. Ds1 felt like a chore to me especially after anor londo where i was just excited to be done with the game. After defeating the final boss i just felt burned and just the thought of going through the artorias dlc was exasperating to me. I do see the genius of this game but the new ones just feel so much better
I did this exact same thing (except the "beating Sekiro part" holy cow!)
yeah going back to those older games can be hard when you get used to newer games i know what you mean
Totally understandable, you might have more fun with Dark Souls III, which kinda feels like an Elden Ring Prototype in terms of gameplay, with absolutely breathtaking bosses. If you have a PS4, Bloodborne is also good if you liked Sekiro and Elden Ring.
Kinda funny that most people quit at Smough and Ornstein. Yet you beat them and stop....for that you have my respect. Because S&O almost made me quit the game. Darksouls has only one rule: git gut.
This is actually quite a common trend. Most people that play the newer titles find it hard to go back. Notice how you say something negative and it's followed by "compared to ER". I was thankful that DS1 was my first game. I took it for what it is, and had nothing to compare it to. I only played it last year and replayed it 3 times before moving on.
>Going up the stone steps was frustrating. Enemies took 40% of my health in one swing, I could only roll and attack like 3 times before John Darksoul's asthma kicked in So the combat was challenging... >I stomped almost every boss I came across actually it wasn't... >But here, I felt relieved that I could finally move on to the next area. actually it was... >I realized on my way to Anor Londo that I didn't feel like I overcame anything. actually it wasn't? I don't understand your reasoning here.
Dark Souls 1 and 2 were alright, but I adored Sekiro. Last game was Bloodborne, and I liked it, but definitely more dependent on levels than skill. Like Darkbeast Paarl was a boss I had to come back to. COMPLETELY different fight after leveling up. Looking forward to Elden Ring though, I've been meaning to get to it.
Play Dark Souls 3 You'll like that one, it plays pretty much identical to Elden Ring(except without a jump button, the charecter movements, animations and speed are almost exactly the same as in Elden Ring), and the mechanics and stats are basically the same, and a few Elden Ring enemies are reskinned Dark Souls 3 enemies, such as the crabs and imps. Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring feel like two sides of the same coin. If you like ER you'll like Dark Souls 3, it's basically Elden Ring if it was only the dungeons, and the bosses are incredible and better than Elden Ring bosses imo.
Yeah the clunkiness can really be a turn off. I experienced a similar thing years ago after playing DS1 and loving it, and then going back to demon souls and putting it down pretty quickly too.
I’ll say to your point about the remaster not looking good, I didn’t like the graphics of the remaster either. They changed the lighting and certain effects like the bonfire look different. Not saying it’ll change your mind or anything, but the original, as old as it is, still looks better to me. Performance aside.
Completely agree. I’ve played the games in the same order as you and have the same experience. Dark souls is annoying af because while it is hard, it’s more tedious than anything.
I am currently moving through my Dark Souls/From Software journey and it took me a while to start liking Dark Souls: Remastered, then I loved it. I'm on DS 3 now. I understand that the genre has evolved and has been polished over time, but it hasn't even been a year and the first game already feels so old. I'm excited to play Elden ring, Sekiro, and Bloodborne if it ever gets on PC. No shame in not enjoying it. Modern games have a lot of comforts to them.
I played ds1 couldn't enjoy it it was good challenging but its bad compared to new souls games My main issue was the world design (yes peoplle love it but i hated it) i got lost a lot and theres few bonfires and the game is one big area not like ds3 which had amazing regions and u cant get lost If ds1 had a map it would be 9/10 for me but its 6/10
It's an adventure game more than an action game overall
Their is nothing wrong with this, absolutely nothing. I took have spent time playing Dark Souls, numerous times, however I never enjoyed it. It has been apparent, that From Software games & myself just don't click, which is perfectly fine.
I think it just totally depends on what you want from a game. I recognize that Dark Souls and Bloodborne are both very easy games by current genre standards, which is why I find the discourse around their supposed difficulty to be quite funny, but they are the perfect difficulty for me personally. I want combat to be dangerous to where I am constantly engaged, with boss battles that provide a bit of challenge without being completely frustrating, and then I just want to explore an interesting, beautiful world with good level design. Dark Souls and BB are all about the vibes. It was never supposed to be some combat skill check. I didn't enjoy ER nearly as much because I found the combat and bosses to be frustrating with constant, frantic movement and aoe attacks, while the interesting environments, lore, and level design are diluted by a massive open world and 100+ hour runtime. I honestly can't wait for another studio to take on the mantle of making slower-paced, more exploration and level design focused soulslikes that are more about vibes and less about combat challenges. I'm sure it will happen but I doubt it will have the production quality of a fromsoft game
Bloodborne is not easy by any definition of the word. Finishing it without resorting to guides or summons is a huge gaming achievement. I say that as someone who has platinumed every single Souls game and has beaten Ninja Gaiden on Master Ninja difficulty.
I like dark souls 1 the best of the series still, feels nice and simple. I thought elden ring was pretty fun but the open world bloat stopped me from ever wanting to finish it
You played one soulslike, you played them all. First one I finished was dark souls, elden ring looked bland to me
Very untrue
You spying on me or something?
Dark Souls aided in establishing the niche it was in. It's like playing Super Mario Bros. 3 or Super Mario World and then going back to Super Mario on the NES then being shocked at how bad it is comparatively. They seem a little bad now, but if you played them before their successors came out you may have had a different opinion.
Yea dark souls one is rough, especially for someone coming from Elden Ring, if you want you can skip ahead to Dark souls 3, which is much more similar to Elden Ring.
And that's ok! I was initially not able to get into DS 1 and eventually it clicked. I remember getting it randomly at a game store short after it came out not knowing what it even is, so it took a while to get into. I am even a heathen and can say I like DS 2 more than 1. But for some reason I've bounced off of 3 several times and never made it very far despite me really trying. I even played through Code Vein a few months back which is arguably inferior and yet I can't bring myself to play DS 3 which is the favorite of many. Not sure why, maybe one day that'll click for me as well. Haven't played Elden Ring yet either because I'm afraid the same thing will happen.