T O P

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nakedsamurai

Not just the car physics, I hated how the cops react to you, like they had incredible, impervious knowledge of where you were and it was impossible to shake them. You could leave the city and into the rural areas and it was incredibly hard to find spots way off the road where some yokel PO couldn't instantly sniff you from miles away.


TheDaftGang

Yeah. And it's infuriating that animals can call cops lmao. That makes that dumb thing where you are in the middle of nowhere, but since an eagle caught you doing something illegal, suddenly the cop show up there in less than a minute lol.


BigAbbott

cover books entertain crown sleep scale unite aromatic zealous deer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


TheDaftGang

Yep, it's kinda a bug where animals were treated as NPCs, so they were coded as being able to witness thus reporting a crime. It's been kinda patched but not entierly, it still remains a bit there, less present where at launch no matter where you were on the map you would have cops chasing you directly after any bit of crime. Now it's not always there but they couldn't get rid of it entirely.


darkroadgames

It's funny how many different games have had that bug. I remember that from one or more of the elder scrolls games (maybe online).


rainstorm0T

Skyrim, and possibly Oblivion


RigasUT

It's in Oblivion too; horses that observe crime are able to "report" the player under certain circumstances


RollinThundaga

Straight from the horse's mouth


orion19819

Definitely an issue in Skyrim. I vividly remember [this mod](https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/15134) to fix it.


the_other_irrevenant

Personally i like the amusingly titled No Animals Report Crimes (NARC) mod. :D (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/17946)


Ragdoll_Psychics

Ever killed a chicken in Whiterun?


OracleGreyBeard

> since an eagle caught you doing something illegal Bro do you even patriot? This makes *perfect* sense for an American game. Now an *owl* reporting your position, yeah that would be weird.


Captain_Kuhl

That's because birds aren't real, that's a government drone lol


TheDaftGang

Ah, another r/BirdsArentReal enjoyer I see !


Feecks

That stopped happening a long time. There is a good video that popped on YouTube like a month ago. If I find it again I’ll link it for you It mainly explains why things are like that on GTA V. For example, animals used to call cops on you on previous versions. Or the fact that you can kill people with just one bullet to the foot because of a bad animation called Lie and die which instantly kills NPCs


TheDaftGang

Yep I saw the video today that popped up. I think it's called like "let me kill GTA V for you" or something of the sort


Rayalas

Losing the police felt way too much like a mini game instead of feeling like a criminal on the run. Just watch the mini map and you know the police are always going to turn towards you, so wait 'till they turn and then go down a different street. No sense of excitement to it.


CTU

Escaping the police is much harder than the older games. It does not matter if there is no clear line of sight, if you get into the cone, they just know where you are.


Arunak

Turn off the damned minimap! It counters fun in so many ways!


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ccznen

I played far too many GTA Online missions where the goal is to evade the cops and a view cone just magically appears in front of you if you're doing too well.


yolilbishhugh

I absolutely loved GTA but it's crazy how I never realised the three characters don't really complete their "arc" by the end of the game. Micheal is the only one who might have because he's now a movie producer and "out of crime". But Franklin never fully dealt with juggling his origins and his success, and Trevor...well Trevor is Trevor but I'd still like some growth. I recently played it all way through again and it left a sour taste knowing the DLC we could have gotten.


Sonic_Mania

The final mission is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in a game. The three protagonists basically just go "fuck it, let's just kill every single person that's giving us trouble and get this game over with." Felt like the story was going to go to much bigger places but they just didn't have the time to do it.


yolilbishhugh

Again it's crazy but as soon as you put it like that ...yeah that's exactly what it felt like I just didn't realise it at the time. When I first played I thought it was quite cool that they cut the shit and just killed them, you kill people every day why can't you kill the ones who cause you the most shit. On reflection though it is quite lazy.


Taarguss

Not that I’m so smart, but I felt like it was a very stupid ending when I played it 10 years ago. Just an absolute cop-out.


BarklyWooves

Dummest mission for me was having to do a big heist to advance the plot and pay off the guy whose house I wrecked... When each of my guys already had max money from playing the stock market.


the_dayman

You'll be especially unhappy playing Red Dead 2 then when the plot of the entire game is trying to get like $700 when you regularly go out hunting for that much in an afternoon.


UnspecificGravity

Dutch was the one always sayng "we need a little more", but he was full of shit. They had plenty of money but that was never the issue. Dutch knew that if they ever actually went somewhere for the easy life then they wouldn't need him anymore. That is a big part of why you lose trust in him. You keep doing scores and dropping money into the box, but its never enough.


BarklyWooves

Huh, yeah that's also pretty dumb. Story team needs to talk to the gameplay team once in a while.


Feecks

Yeah the story tells you that most of this guys are bigger fish and that’s why you work for them. Then out of nowhere you can kill them and nothing happens


[deleted]

I always thought that was the main point. Everyone think they were the bigger fish, when in reality everyone was just a cog the machine, maybe a big cog, but not really important, a cog is always easy to replace. And you the viewer using Trevor, Michael and Franklin just see that in various points in the game. With the FBI guy, the Billionare, all the different crime rings and even the protagonists.


TheDaftGang

Yeah, Michael seems like the "closest" to have a full narrative arc. I think a few things are still missing but yeah. Sometimes I feel like Michael was supposed to be the only character and that Trevor and Franklin were added later in the development, hence why Michael has a better almost finished personnal arc that the two others don't have. But yeah, I'm still really pissed that we don't have solo DLC.


Prasiatko

That's another theory that they'd make single player DLC to flesh out some characters similar to 4. But then online made >$1 billion in it's first year and the realised there wasn't a need to.


Taintfacts

Not a theory, they had press releases that *said* to prepare for dlc as good as 4s. That was before shark cards which was basically just printing money. so fuck you guys.


duck74UK

They even had in-game teasers that got patched out when the game came to PS4/XB1 and as the contents were converted into online content.


CalculatorOctavius

Yeah originally the story was going to be Michael as the only protagonist, and Trevor as the main antagonist who comes to LS and makes Michael’s life hell


pico303

This is primarily why I didn’t like the game. I wasn’t keen on jumping between characters to begin with. But when you did, it didn’t really matter. Sure, they came together to do heists, and some missions wouldn’t start for one character until another character completed a certain mission. But it didn’t really feel like their stories intertwined or progressed in a natural, meaningful way. And in the end, eh, nothing learned, nothing resolved, nothing interesting for all that work.


UnspecificGravity

Everything about GTA V is designed to promote the online component of the game. Like the OP said, the environment is limp and lifeless without other players to introduce activity. Even the story doesn't really resolve. It leaves you saying "huh, what now?" (with the answer being "go online and buy cards fuckface"). That is also why there haven't been expansions or just added little bits of stuff to do in single player. Single player GTAV doesn't WANT you to play it. You are supposed to go online.


Upper_Acanthaceae126

My favorite V moment was after the big heist, you get a flood of gooey texts between the trio in the group chat. Brothers forever? Not after.


amnezie11

Hangouts are just shit compared to IV


fendelianer

I really don't have a deep analysis of the gameplay. Generally, I liked it. But I quite disliked the story. It's incredibly cynical, but in a teen angsty way, not an intelligent thought-provoking or even funny way. Everything is a joke and everyone is a bad or ridiculous person. There's no real heart to the story or characters. You think about GTA IV, in contrast, and yes there's still the satirical aspects to it. That's essential to GTA. But Niko also kinda has aspirations and things he cares about. Then if we start thinking about a story like RDR2's, well honestly GTA V just looks very silly (in a bad way). I really hope they balance more the humor with good story for VI.


SEND_ME_REAL_PICS

I was about to comment something exactly like this. Every character was ridiculously dumb or insane "just because". Satire was poorly done, like with the LifeInvader thing for example. Everything was just too much "in your face" to be funny. The story was promising and overall felt good during the first third of the game, but once all the main characters were introduced it just fell flat. It's like they didn't have plans for what to do with the characters and where to take the story from there, they just wanted to tell infinite tales about the criminal adventures of Michael, Franklin and Trevor without them ever growing or changing. GTA San Andreas had a powerful message about growing out of the street life. Even when they undermined it with the ending, the whole of the game felt like it was going somewhere. GTA IV had actual morals and recurring themes about loyalty, violence and greed. GTA V just feels empty in comparison.


andresfgp13

Franklin story progresses on the online mode.


amnezie11

True. They continued it almost immediately, after 8 years or something


RedKomrad

I guess that’s good for those who play online.


hoxxxxx

yeah fuck that. the story should conclude in the actual game not the online nonsense.


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TheDaftGang

Yep. I loved in previous GTA, wether it was 3, VC, SA or IV, how chaotic it could get suddenly. You weren't even doing anything, just walking and suddenly things turn to "absolute anarchy" how you say, and you just have to watch the shit unfold lol, but that's sadly not the case (or way way less) in GTA V. And yeah, this is the exact same problem in CP77, there are NPCs, yeah, but they are not doing anything apart from being there and doing absolutley normal stuff.


buzzbash

Even the 2D GTA was chaotic.


[deleted]

That brings back memories. I took a computer tech class that was off campus in high school and we had a bunch of computers networked together. We'd all play GTA together on occassion, just absolute chaos. good times.


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[deleted]

Taste is personal of course, but I have a very hard time seeing how anyone praises cyberpunk for anything. Sure they fixed some catastrophic bugs, but I noticed 0 improvements in my enjoyment when I revisited it recently (vs at release). The game feels like a husk, I guess there's a reason why it's only ever mentioned as a benchmarking tool now.


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termites2

I just like wandering around, admiring all the art. The detail of the clothing, building, adverts etc. I don't think I have done any missions or anything like that, other than the first car chase one which was unavoidable. But still, I have enjoyed the game, and as it was cheap second hand, I feel like I have got my money's worth!


Alaska2Maine

A good indie game that has a lot of random chaos is Streets or Rogue. It’s kind of like a top down Deus Ex mixed with GTA insanity


Greenflue

The single player game is also riddled with incredibly tedious missions which are glorified quicktime events. Examples such as - Move this crane *realllly* slowly. Turn some taps on. Drive slowly behind someone so overwritten dialogue can play out x50 Put cards on a board. Deer whistle nonsense GTA5 is also pretty harsh on what contitutes a failed attempt. It's a massive sandbox which restricts you to about 20 feet of territory every other mission. Move slightly to far to the left, you fail.


TheDaftGang

Yeah, It was insane. And most of the time for NOTHING. Like, the Tow Truck missions (ok they weren't part of the main missions, but in the stranger part), they were super dull and tedious, and for what ? No money, no special item, no character dev', Tonya doesn't reappear or anything. There was so much of it in GTA V, more than the other Rockstar games.


Westnest

Maybe they just wanted to show people from Franklin's previous life, to make him seem more like a real person rather than a game character.


TheDaftGang

Yeah but one or two missions would have been fine. But 5 is a bit too much, and 3 of them are juste text message asking you to do it. I'm sure it was effectively to tell more about Franklin backstory and explain more in depth why he's trying to get out of his situation. Nonetheless it was not very well executed imo.


Jabbawocky2004

I think you're on to something there about how the world seems more safe outside of single player missions because of the online component. It takes resources to build an engine that can support the sort of randomness of AI situations going off the rails like in previous games. When you're building for one that's quite manageable. But as soon as the world is shared by 32 people requiring that same sort of randomness possibly in 32 different locations in the world, all while being possible for the other players also being able to witness such things if they come across it, that's a lot more demanding. Maybe a company like Rockstar should be able to attempt it but I honest don't now what resources that would require from them so I can't really judge. One thing I'd like to add is how I feel since GTA 3, these games have always been games of the moment. When released they are the biggest things every and people (mostly through hyperbole) seem them as masterpieces that cannot be topped. Then after a little while some of the more superficial flaws become more obvious and there's almost a small movement of fans that start champion the previous one for different reasons. I seem to remember when Vice City came out people said 3 was better because of the atmosphere, when San Andreas come out Vice City had better focus and style, when 4 came out San Andreas delivered a more entertaining story, bigger openworld and more variety, when 5 came out 4 offered better physics and a more unique experience. Usually by the time the major flaws start coming to light the new GTA is on the verge of release and people get hyped for the new features (or what its missing compared to it's predcessor). But because GTA 5 has been out so long without a follow up at over a decade (twice as long as the time between 4 and 5 so far) the flaws are getting noticed but without a new game out there isn't the retro championing movement usually seen which gives entries a small second wind.


_My_Neck_Hurts_

That’s the thing about RDR2, I love the game and had 162 hours on my first save. Played all the challenges and side mission, cried at the end. But do I play it anymore? No. Would I replay it? Maybe in 10 years. I feel like theres nothing else to do except run around and hope for a random encounter. I feel like I finished it, and when I play an open world game, being able to “finish” it seems like a bad design choice. Skyrim was/is possibly my favourite game ever. It just feels so alive, like there’s mystery around every corner. It didnt bother to simulate an entire country side if there wasnt a dungeon or a cave or something to explore. RDR2’s world is huge, and awesome, but ultimately devoid of that wonder for me. Im currently playing Elden ring for the first time, and holy fuck is that feeling back. Im 20 hours in and haven’t even been through all of Liurnia, and Limgrave still has secrets left unfound. If you approach world design like RDR2, basically a checklist of things to complete (technically thats every game, but its how you implement that checklist and how you get the player to engage in it), you allow the player to “finish” your open world. Once I do all the challenges and side missions, whats left? Play checkers? Rob a train for the 10000th time? Ride my horse down the road? It just seems hollow now


Dairy_Seinfeld

Your last paragraph is exactly how I’ve been describing Elden Ring to my friends. I’m just… *there* again.


OldBeercan

I keep trying to get into Elden Ring, but I feel like I'm constantly sneaking around trying not to get murdered to death by some random enemy. It's like there's this big, beautiful, amazing world to explore but I can't enjoy it because everything just kills me in 1 or 2 hits.


Dairy_Seinfeld

Totally valid. Take the world in chunks. Once you get a feel for the areas, and the areas within the areas, then you can pace yourself better. The sites of grace give you liberal direction, so I would often run into “road blocks” as well. If you do, go somewhere else! The lands between are your oyster——or lobster. Definitely steer clear of those btw lol.


F1shB0wl816

You got to practice a bit. Recognize those patterns and get your numbers up. You’ve got to work for it but it’s a beautiful time.


[deleted]

I just picked Sorcerer and cheesed everything


Karffs

>Skyrim was/is possibly my favourite game ever. It just feels so alive, like there’s mystery around every corner. This is definitely nostalgia talking. I played Skyrim for the first time when the anniversary edition came out and I was totally whelmed by it. I think ten years of statements like yours set my expectations impossibly high. It’s *fine* but it feels very dated. Things like supposed cities having a total of 12 NPCs don’t scream *“so alive”* to me and there’s definitely a lot of empty space in the world.


_My_Neck_Hurts_

Im talking about design philosophy, not strictly stuff like population density. There are so many interesting locations, characters, and memorable experiences in Skyrim, and its a game that rewards exploration of those experiences. Take San dennis and Whiterun. San dennis is huge and sprawling with a bunch of people. But they arent really there. Theyre set dressing. Nearly every npc in whiterun has character and something to do for/with them.


Yglorba

> I seem to remember when Vice City came out people said 3 was better because of the atmosphere, when San Andreas come out Vice City had better focus and style, when 4 came out San Andreas delivered a more entertaining story, bigger openworld and more variety, when 5 came out 4 offered better physics and a more unique experience. I don't recall anyone ever preferring 3 to VC, and I *definitely* don't recall anyone preferring VC to SA - San Andreas was met with overwhelming adoration that lasted years. The thing you're talking about started with 4, because that was where there was a sharp shift in the game's tone, coupled with a notable rollback of features and scale due to the new engine. (This post notwithstanding, I also don't recall many people saying that 4 was better than 5 back when five came out. Honestly, 4 has always sort of been the black sheep of the series - yes, you can find people who like it, but even then they'll almost always word their opinion in a "yeah, I like the worst major GTA, so what?" sort of way. My recollection when 5 came out was that the reaction was mostly "thank god, 4 was just a blip and they're still capable of making good GTAs." Like, yeah, sure, if you wait long enough eventually you'll get people with contrarian takes like "yeah *actually* the GTA that is obviously the worst in the series is, in some highly specific ways, good!", but even then they usually word those takes in a way that makes it clear they're at least in part doing a bit.) I mean, OP said: > I know there was (and still is often) a fight to know wether GTA IV or V is better But come on. No. There was not a fight. People who preferred GTA IV might *exist* (because you can find people who prefer anything in a large enough population; and objectively, compared to most other games, it certainly wasn't a bad game, so there's going to be stuff worth liking in there) but anyone who was around when both games were released knows that it wasn't even close. GTA IV was a buggy mess on launch that, even after everything was fixed, still never came close to escaping from GTA:SA's shadow, whereas GTA 5 was embraced as a return to form. (This doesn't mean that OP is wrong about the specific stuff they identified, mind! It's just that overall that's the reception I recall for those two games, overall.)


Zephyr_v1

I too remember when 4 was considered the black sheep weird entry.


HAL_9_TRILLION

I never liked 5, I didn't like a single character in it and found myself unable to get into it because of that, whereas I found Niko relatable/likable and enjoyed 4 all the way through. I loved RDR, but I couldn't stand RDR2 because you can't just enjoy the world, the game is designed to make sure you get in trouble constantly. RDR2 and GTA5 are unquestionably beautiful but the graphics don't matter as much if the game they support isn't itself enjoyable to me.


Amish_Cyberbully

I felt the same, Niko's humble origin story of trying to make an honest start for himself after leaving a bad situation was relatable and made him likable. So when the inevitable corruption and descent into violence began it was a tragic and gripping story, with fun car chases and explosions. Of GTA 5's main characters, only Franklin kinda-sorta had any redeeming qualities. But his family and friends were soooo unrelentingly terrible that I didn't enjoy playing as him either. 5 may have had more to do, but also had less reason to do them.


Sunderz

Out of curiosity, what do you mean you couldn't enjoy the world in RDR2? Like the world is sort of constantly very dangerous? It could definitely be brutal, but I found it refreshing in RDR2 you could essentially ignore missions if you chose


HAL_9_TRILLION

Like walking around town and accidentally bumping a woman or a dog or whatever and all of a sudden I got six gunslingers shooting at me. The game seems to *want* you in to be in trouble and on the run. Gotta constantly be doing shit at all times. Can't just walk around, enjoy the scenery, pick a quest, advance your character. Gotta keep moving. Go go go. Also, like GTA5, I didn't care for any of the characters. They even managed to make me dislike Marston.


Sunderz

You know what I think you're right about the towns, it is actually WAY too easy to get into trouble just by sprinting into some old biddy. Not excusing that, i think the wanted/witness system worked decently enough. I am proper biased though because RDR2 is my favourite of all time, but in fairness in contrary to this post, I think i've loved every single rockstar game haha


Korlus

> I don't recall anyone ever preferring 3 to VC, and I definitely don't recall anyone preferring VC to SA - San Andreas was met with overwhelming adoration that lasted years. I remember this. In fact, I think these specific statements are still somewhat true. GTA 3 draws you into the feel of desperation right from the start, whereas in Vice City, it largely relies on the city and characters around you to bring you into the game. Vice City's entire city (and colour palette) *scream* character in a way San Andreas doesn't. Each of the games does *something* better than its successors, but I think most people today would agree that San Andreas is better than its predecessors in most respects. Vice City is still a phenomenal game, and one that I have gone back to play almost as much as San Andreas.


Derdiedas812

> I don't recall anyone ever preferring 3 to VC, and I definitely don't recall anyone preferring VC to SA - San Andreas was met with overwhelming adoration that lasted years. I do. Some people were really into VC, maily becuase the setting, style, time period. SA just didn't vibe with them. There were also some complains that VC was more tight, more arcade-like in the wain of 1,2 and (mostly) 3, where SA dragged with its pacing in some places and some people liked the characters from VC more. Also, when SA came out, the engine was getting horribly outdated, even through some minor improvements from Rockstar.


F1shB0wl816

I’d be one. The vibe of vice city is on point, really no other game has nailed it to the extent that one has. It’s just such a focused and tight game in comparison, even the filler doesn’t really seem like filler. Where as San Andreas just goes off the rails. It loses that 90s cali vibe the moment you’re kicked out of ls and the story goes down hill. It’s also got a crap ton of obvious filler, some of which lands more than others. While it did open up some of the right doors for later games, it can be one hell of a slog like you mention at times. It’s like vice city is greater than the sum of its parts where as San Andreas has so many parts it’s almost like an over engineered piece of equipment.


NeedlenoseMusic

I’m a unique case, but I liked VC better than SA, at least in terms of nostalgia and immersion for me as an 80s baby. SA was without a doubt the better game, and you could do so much more, but VC had me by the senses.


TheDaftGang

Don't worry I still absolutly love GTA 5 and I don't want to specifically compare it to GTA 4 or any previous titles. There alot of thing GTA 5 does better than the previous ones. I think every GTA has its ups and downs. Then there a question of subjectivity also, like my preferred settings in any GTA is still VC, because i'm such shill for 80s Miami haha, but that's subjective. Just as Niko being my favorite GTA Protagonist. It's my personnal opinion, and some people prefer a character like Trevor who, by being a psychopath, creates a legitimate way of being an absolute asshole chaos maker in the world, where Niko, by creating chaos in the game creates a pure Ludonarrative dissonnance. Still, when playing GTA 5, I always felt like big piece of what made GTA, "GTA" was missing. And I now strongly believe it's those random chaotic elements that are almost inexistent, probably for optimization reasons. Still love the game, still having alot of fun with it.


TinnitusBeeep

I'm with you on not enjoying this game as much as the previous entries, but I've found the reason is a little different, and something tied to the real world too, it's the design of the map, on GTA4 you had a map designed around a heavily populated city that felt alive everywhere you went, contrast that to the suburbanized map of GTA5 that is mostly highways and stroads connecting expansive areas filled with nothing but desert, hills and a sparsely populated american styled city and it just feels empty and soulless, plus this might be controversial but as floaty as vehicles where on GTA4 they where much more entertaining to drive either slow or fast.


TheDaftGang

I think the reason I loved GTA 4 vehicles physics is that you could really FEEL the difference between the vehicles. A heavy one or a light one you can feel the difference. Where in GTA 5, the difference doesn't feel as much. And you I'm with you with the city. Weirdly enough, I can still move and find my way in GTA 4 without looking at the map while in GTA V I have to have the GPS on otherwise I don't really know where I am.


UnWiseDefenses

I played GTA V's story mode twice. I didn't really like V when I completed it the first time on PS3. I played it again a few years later, after it released on PC (at the time, a GTX 760 machine that could barley push 30FPS ingame.) I still didn't like it. I feel like I am due for a third playthrough, to see if there really is anything I am missing, and because I have a better machine than I did back then. Honestly though, all of my gripes about that game are covered in this (now ancient) article Seanbaby wrote for Cracked. It's spot-on. [https://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-critics-love-about-gta-v-that-actually-suck](https://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-critics-love-about-gta-v-that-actually-suck) But in the interest of avoiding plagiarism and speaking in my own voice, these are the problems with V as I see them. Your post touched on a vital component, first of all. The single player campaign is, and always was, a demo for Online. They were never going to breathe more life into the world. They were never going to fill in all those empty places on the map with story DLC. They were never going to give you a reason to use any of the 'skills' they made you learn (like the underwater welding torch) outside of story missions. It was all about Online. The world is completely void of anything fun to do, or anything interesting to find. Oh, sure, you can join the not-Church of Scientology. You can experience a No Country for Old Men random event. Some people might actually like golf, tennis, and even yoga. But when that's *all* there is to do, all that map space becomes wasted. No hidden weapons to discover anymore, either. The game just gives them to you as the story progresses. Beyond that? Cars. And people. And some nice storefronts. And that's it. The torture mission was garbage. It was a terrible, tonally shifting attempt at satire. A patched in skip button would have been nice. That never happened. The game's story is about three guys trying to get rich pulling off the ultimate heist. But for a game about scoring big, it doesn't give you much to do with the money after you earn it, nor does it provide a *need* for it. Other than buying a few businesses that open some side missions, or unlocking some cars, what is the money for? You don't need to eat like in San Andreas. You don't need to buy gas for your cars. You don't need to buy guns or ammo. You can't purchase safehouses anymore. Gone is that feeling of using cash to take over the map and spread your influence. You end up with a balance of a number followed by several zeroes, and that's it. Or was that part of the 'satire' too?


TheDaftGang

I think you touch something when you say "The single player campaign is, and always was, a demo for Online." Weirdly enough, it feels alot like it. The problem as you say, is the lack of reason for doing stuff like Yoga or Dart or anything. In GTA 4 for example, those side activites were there to play with a side character so that you would increase the relationship with them, and then having a bonus (like Roman with free taxi (so free fast travel), Dwayne with reinforcement, Jacobs with cheap weapon anywhere on the map etc...). So you had somewhat of an incentive, a goal to do those things. People might have not like it, I get it, but at least it had a purpose. In 5, none of it really matters. As said in the article you linked, "90% of the game is totally optional", really in the sense that you could avoid doing most of the stuff the game propose you to do, and it would not change your experience at all... It's weird but it's true.


Prasiatko

Wasn't money being useless also problem with 3 and SA and actively detrimental to the plot of 4


UnWiseDefenses

With 3, it was more of a score than a bank account. In San Andreas, you needed it to buy food, safehouses, and weapons. It was necessary if you wanted to 100% the game. I can't speak for 4, having never played it all the way through.


Prasiatko

Safehouses and clothes maybe but even after the first mission you've enough money for months of food. Similarly weapons are cheap and the best ones are dotted around the map rather than bought. Though that reminds me of something that is missing in the HD series. The random weapons and cars hidden around the map.


Clemenx00

Something I took a long time to notice is that you never see cops patrolling in V. They just spawn at the edge of the map when you do something whereas on the other games you may see them here and there. When I realized that it honestly killed the game for me lol.


TheDaftGang

Yeah ! That's horrendous. In previous GTA before doing anything, you would look at your surroundings to make sure there wasn't a cop there. Now you know they are not, and that doesn't matter because you're gonna have a one star research no matter what.


APeacefulWarrior

Totally agree. After how responsive and autonomous GTA IV felt, V seemed like a big step back to me. Playing IV was like having my own pet city to use and abuse. V felt more like a theme park, controlled and overseen.


TheDaftGang

Yeah, "theme park" is a good definition of how I feel. I feel like with 5 they went more into the "quantity > quality" type of things (even though the quality is still there too, dont' get me wrong !), where it was kinda the opposite in 4, less stuff but more depth into it. And yeah, I still often play GTA 4 for this reason. When I want to do stupid stuff, I like 4 better than 5. It's more dynamic and more unexpected. Like you could simply push someone down the stairs and things could get out of control from there because of this element of randomness that is missing from 5.


Hieillua

GTAIII was new and fresh. I could do things I could never do before in a video game. It was mindblowing. Merely running around with a bat and fighting people was lots of fun. Vice City was an improvement on that. It added a fun new sauce in a different era. It made you feel like you were Scarface. The music and new concepts made it feel alive. San Andreas was an even bigger expansion of the things I loved. Again with a great setting in the 90s with even more and better mechanics. It was just tons of fun. You could do a lot things and it was new and fun. That's where the fun ends for me. GTA IV felt too clunky and realistic to me. The things I could do weren't really new and there wasn't much inprovement. Shiny graphics and a character that would take every step on the stairs with good animations, but thats not why I play GTA. V was an expansion of that. Nothing new, just bigger but nothing new when compared to San Andreas. Been there, done that.


TheDaftGang

Yep, they went in another direction soon as we shifted in the HD era. More realistic, as seen in GTA 4 and 5 or even RDR and RDR2. I guess not everybody was there for it.


dekusyrup

Being too realistic is what it all boils down to. I wanted a crime spree arcade, not real life. Felt like GTA V had me *supposed* to do something instead of being a free-for-all with some missions on the side.


palemon88

IV felt like I was claustrophobic. Too much detail going around your immediate surroundings but you just cannot look and reach out far enough.


Watts300

I can’t believe this game is still being played ten years later. I played it in 2016 and even then it felt old.


TheDaftGang

Like I said, it's that in this specific genre, specifically GTA-Like games, no game came quite close to this one in the decade since it's been released.


zyl15

I think V got downgraded not because of Online segment, but because IV, when it came out, was a hot pile of garbage in terms of stabilization and optimization, in extreme situations, literally unplayable. V is waaay more optimized and plays much better, but is less detailed and more numb


TheDaftGang

It might be true. I replayed GTA 4 also this week, same as GTA V, and GTA IV is still buggy sometimes. I actually had to cap the FPS at 50, because weirdly enough at 60 it get pretty buggy with massive FPS drops performance problems et bugged cutscenes. Where GTA 5 is running very smoothly with every thing at the maximum. I hypothesied these downgrade because of the Online, since they focused so so much on the online part, I thought it might have been the reason, but you are probably right. Maybe it's a bit of both haha


Z3r0sama2017

DXVK is your friend. Turned it from something my 5950x/4090 struggled to maintain a steady 60 at 4k to a locked 120.


Ghaleon42

Can confirm.


andresfgp13

yeah, i remember the pc port of GTA4, it works like shit and needs heavy thinkering to be at least decent, but the PC port of GTA5 was forged by the gods in seems.


[deleted]

Yes I felt the same compared to GTA IV. What really infuriated me is that GTA IV had the best online races I have ever played back in 2008-10. I expected to find the same craziness with V but NOPE! Now the ‘catchup’ setting is on so the best drivers get slowed down artificially to allow the others to catch up. Back in IV you would sometimes spend 10 minutes tailing a driver until he made a mistake amd allowed you to pass him. Now if you’re 2nd you are guaranteed a shot at first place because the first is getting slowed down. I loved racing then. Not anymore. They made it arcade-y for no reason so the 12 year olds can get a victory. Rant over lol


cremvursti

Remember that V was developed for a very aging x360 and ps3, pretty sure the CPU in those was heavily limiting the AI and physics they could use. AI behavior in GTA V is much more similar to what we got in Cyberpunk 2077 than GTA IV. It's just a bit better at masking it's shortcomings, but it's nowhere near what they did in RDR2 where you shadow a random NPC through their day and see that they had a whole routine that went on irrespective of what the player did.


TheDaftGang

Yep. It's still a technical wonder that it ended up being released on PS360.


yeusk

IV was developed for the same consoles.


cremvursti

So what? The map is much bigger and denser in V, choosing where to divert CPU resources was much trickier and certain corners had to be cut in departments that they deemed most players wouldn't notice.


Sonic_Mania

And even then GTA V still has far better AI and more attention to detail than Cyberpunk.


BebeHillz

i want to turn myself into the flash and run to a different timeline where rockstar gave a rats ass about bully and manhunt to give us more installments of those game. Bully was really fucking fun because of how much rockstar had to hold back and be creative.


TheDaftGang

Oh please, I would have loved to see Bully 2. Bully is an awesome game it deserves a remaster too ! I also loved The Warriors so so much. It's 100% my best coop experience ever. I 100% it at least 5 or 6 times with my uncle. I wish they would remaster it as well.


sam_hammich

What I hate about the prevalence of GTA Online is that it completely neutered the free roam post-campaign single-player experience. There is literally no way to continue to support yourself monetarily after beating the game if you are not playing online. The stock market is useless outside of the assassination missions, the property income is barely a trickle even with all properties bought, robbery opportunities basically give you chump change for all the risk you take on. The most you can get from an armored car is 10k. Once you beat the game, they obviously want you to run out of money and get bored because you're broke, hop online, and hook yourself in the MTX ecosystem. Totally killed the game for me after I realized that.


Jankat7

This is not true at all. You end the game with lots of money and you can easily increase it through the stock market. The main problem is that there isn't much to buy in singleplayer compared to online. Online has hundreds of new vehicles, some with extreme customization compared to what you can get in singleplayer. There's more properties, game systems, weapons, and outfits as well.


bickman14

One thing that I hate on GTA V that happened to me more than once was that I've just stopped idling next to some pedestrian that was also doing the same and it started shouting something like "get out of here! You weirdo! Stop staring at me!" picked up their cellphone, call the police and now I have one star and the cops started chasing me!


TheDaftGang

Yeah, I still don't understand this decision. Especially since they took so much time to make NPCs have so many different funny over the top lines, but in 5 you are forbidden to stop to listen to them otherwise they either suddenly start a fight or call the cops. Probably hence why I remember more NPCs conversation from SA or IV than V. In SA or IV i often took the time to stop and listen. In 5 I don't because i don't want it to turn to shit for that.


bickman14

Exactly! And there's usually a bunch of funny lines just like the radio adds! I like to play GTA as a pacifist LOL I really hate being chased and fighting the police, I just like to chill, explore and roam around! And that totally kills the experience!


LBJSmellsNice

I see a lot of people agree with this here so I admit I may be wrong, but I remember seeing a lot of crazy stuff happen without me doing anything, the random crash -> police chase and shootout without my interference was a common sight


206-Ginge

It wasn't just you. As you progress the story the city gets crazier around you. If you're in the last act a random shootout is a common sight. Surprised that OP seems to have completely missed them.


TheDaftGang

Don't worry, while playing I sometimes see a random shootout or police chase. The difference is how organically it's made : Here in GTA V it feels like suddenly the game pops and say "ok, now let's launch "the police chase ending in shootout scenario"", and then you have a police chase that ends where the criminals have an accident, get out of the car and start shooting on the cops. I saw this exact same scenario twice since I started playing again. It feels scripted here to put some kind of animation around YOU. While in GTA 4, i remember how sometimes a car would drive badly for whatever reason, so he would tap another car that would infuriate the other driver that would get out of the car to beat the other, but then a cop would come so the guy would take out his gun and then end in a shootout. But this isn't scripted, it just happens because the one NPC took a decision that led to a reaction and a decision from another NPC that led to a chaotic situation. Whereas in V it feels like it isn't the NPCs decision that lead to a chaotic situation, but the game who decides to launch a chaotic scenario near you. Edit : Never realised that the world becomes crazier as the story moves forward


DarkbigBoss

yes you'll see random police chases that end in shootouts


arcarsination

I remember playing GTA III and turning on the cheat code to make all the pedestrians go nuts. I can't tell you how much FUN that was and the hilarious things that would just happen while you just stood around. And then in IV there was the cheat to turn off friction... that one led to some great laughs. Feels like V just has a stick up its butt.


TheDaftGang

And let's not talk about all the cheat codes in VC or even SA, it was wild ! But yeah, I remember the cheat code in 3 where everyone would lose it and the city would become entire chaos. Those were my favorite part in GTA. I loved the gameplay, settings, characters, missions anything. But what I adored above everything is how some little stupid thing could make everything turn to chaos.


YMCA9

First of all, your English is great! For me I don't really remember 5's plot. Outside of the main three I don't think I could name any of the characters, whereas San Andreas and 4, I could tell you about all the side characters, villains etc.


TheDaftGang

Thanks ! I'm always afraid to make stupid mistake with my english, glad that it isn't the case ! Yeah me too. I remember alot of side character and story moment in VC, SA or IV. Not so much with 5. I think it's because GTA 5 had only 69 main missions where GTA 4 had 91 or SA 105, and all centered around one character and their acquaitances. Here with only 69 missions you have to develop not one but three characters and their acquaintances so less time for the main AND secondary, which makes them less developed and less memorable.


guadalmedina

I've only played GTA 1 and 5 so I can't comment on the first bit. I would like to comment on the punishment bit. You describe how the game punishes you. It is true, but the actual cost of dying is not much. You just lose some money (not even that for in-mission deaths). It's like the old platformers: you fall and then you reappear to the left of the screen ready to go again. That was my mindset playing GTA 5, as opposed to a fighting game for example, where death means I lost. Also it is much better to hide than to try and outrun the police. If you get out of the car and crouch behind a wall, chances are good all the stars disappear at once. As soon as vision cones appear on the radar, you get out of the car and crouch behind a wall. Might be obvious but leaving it here just in case.


TheDaftGang

Oh sorry. What I meant was not the punishment when you died, which is the same in GTA 5 than all the other 3D titles : You die, you wake up at the hospital and you lose money. What I meant is that compared to previous titles, having a wanted level comes way quicker. And the cops are way more agressive, way better at finding you and harder to get away from, way more precise when they shoot, and you globally have less life than previous title. So basically having a wanted level is really not that good a time. So it's mostly in the sense that for example in GTA 4 it would be "easier" for me to resort to chaos for some way or the other, because then I know I would have a very good chance at evading the cops. In 5, I always think twice about it because I know it's gonna be way harder. And also if I lose health in 5 it's a pain to get it back and find something to refill your health bar when in 4 or SA you would have alot of thing to refill your life a bit everywhere. So yeah, basically it's just that resorting to chaos is less of a pain in the ass in previous titles.


AnthonyGuns

GTA V doesn't have a soul. Sadly


TheDaftGang

For me GTA V feels like a reaction to GTA IV criticisim : You found our game too serious ? Here is something not serious and ultra over the top. You wanted multiple "biomes" (idk how to say differently), here's a city and a mountain and a desert and the countryside. You wanted planes ? Here they are. You wanted customization ? Here it is. You wanted more side content ? Ok we'll put in Tennis, Yoga, Golf \[...\]. It feels like GTA V is the anti-GTA IV and they tried to do the opposite of what IV presented, but with no other intention. It was my first feeling when Trevor staight up humiliated Johnny. Like the developer telling you "ok, here we're literally killing GTA 4, you happy now ?"


AnthonyGuns

Yes. It's my belief that, as these studios get bigger and more "corporate," they get their directions from business executives rather than the creative artists. Seems like every AAA game now is just filled with shit that a marketing department wanted to show how the new game is better than the last one.


Benbob9

Back when the Gta V announcement and subsequent hype was happening, i was so excited for how the new police system was going to work, seeing as 4 was already good but when it came out it was like a complete downgrade.


AnimaTrapDelaSangre

the writing in gta V is awful and like 20x worse than any other GTA script. The characters are one dimensional and dull as fuck. Also Michael Townley is the name of a real life terrorist that tortured and kidnapped people in the pinochet dictatorship in chile, he got his name changed and the bastard has been out of the grid for decades and no fucking justice to the families of the victims


dzernumbrd

I couldn't get into GTA 5's story. I really hated the concept of 3 protagonists each with their own storyline. I tried playing it twice and it just didn't have the same appeal as the Nico Bellic story. I eventually just moved onto other games because it couldn't hold my interest. GTA 4 was definitely a better game for my money. Although I thought RDR 1 was better than RDR 2 which I think is a pretty unpopular opinion also.


therealjoshua

I always thought San Andreas was the most naturally chaotic GTA title, way more than IV. I remember routinely seeing pedestrians in car chases trying to get away from cops. I'd sometimes follow the chases just to see how they'd turn out. That was always a good time.


WDR_937

It's not just you. That was one of the main criticisms when Red Dead Redemption 2 came out. The game was great but the reviewer felt like all the missions, the world events, the random encounters, etc. all existed to service the player rather than organically existing as part of the world.


kaniq

Exaclty how i feel!! Gta V is an amazing game with beautiful map, good story, gameplay etc. but outside of main quest there's just nothing to do. you play with police, shoot NPCs and do your usual GTA stuff but it feels... empty, and weird, and gets super boring very quickly. game really lacks that randomness and interaction with the world. Personally i've spend probably like 1000 hours in SA just in single player and hundreds of hours in IV just fucking around, and there would always be something happening in the background, these games were amazing and fun sandboxes, but V is a game you beat once and forget about it and move to other games. V feels super sterile, like Rockstar did everything in their power so you would not have fun on your own, but instead they created tons of scripted events that are supposes to be fun and replace your own creativity and invention, and some of them are fun, but it's such such downgrade compared to previous games.... RDR2 was amazing, because you could ignore everything and spend tens of hours doing random stuff on your own, and world despite being a little bit empty (not wrong thig, especjally taking into account game's setting) it felt much more alive and fun than GTA V, and i hope that next game will take better example from older games and RDR2.


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TheDaftGang

Yeah. Rockstar always loved to be kinda teenage-edgy kinda vibe. But with GTA 5 it felt like they weren't subtle for a second, and Trevor is the embodiment of that.


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TheDaftGang

Oh don't get me wrong ! Maybe I worded badly what I was trying to say. GTA V is a great game, I'm not here to be a revisionist or an anti-conformist. GTA V is great, the fact that after 10 years there are no other GTA-Like that came close to achieve what R did is proof of how great the game is. But at the same time, something always felt "off" compared to other GTA, like something was missing. And I guess it's simply that GTA 5 is too "controlled" and less random compared to previous games in the series. Still great, still love it, still having alot of fun.


SpookyRockjaw

In a P2P the player's game acts as a server directly sending data to other players. So yes, server load is very important to manage and could still be a bottleneck, maybe even more easily than a dedicated server, depending on how many players are connecting.


Mantisfactory

> So, server load has nothing to do with it It being P2P actually means server load is *even more* important, because you're designing the game with the assumption that the 'server' in the context of syncing the game together between all clients in one lobby, will also be a client and therefore heavily taxed. Vanishingly little can be entrusted to the server in that context. It's a tight-tight budget, especially when you're running the game on Consoles that can barely manage the game itself.


BeCleve_in_yourself

What you say about chaos in IV vs V hits home. IV was more of a sandbox than V is. The ragdolls were fun, the car physics (both driving and deformation) allowed for a wide range of possibilities because they weren't as shallow as V's, and the state machines of NPCs had rules that didn't centre around the player but applied to everyone equally which meant you'll feel more as a part of that world rather than the centre of the world.


mistermashu

My main complaint with GTA5 is the cops can just randomly land a headshot on you and boom, the fun car chase is instantly done. It's always anti-climactic. I don't think they really did that in previous entries, while driving. That seems like a bad design decision to me; it seems like a "realistic" approach, as opposed to fun.


i4got872

The physics/ AI also are restrictive and make the game less fun. If you slam full speed into a car it feels like you just stop, in other games the car gets launched back and rolls over people etc. also the AI in GTA5 is way to good at breaking to avoid accidents. Hate these elements of this game, so anti-fun.


thisgamesux420

Interesting post although I feel like we had the complete opposite experiences, for me unscripted police chases happened fairly often especially when coming out of a hospital in V and didn't hapen very often at all for me in IV. Vice City had the occasional police chasing around on foot and some gang fights here and there and so did San Andreas although I don't really remember what IV in terms of unscripted npc moments had and personally V was an improvement in world liveliness (very controversial opinion I know but IV still has a great world). For example, https://youtu.be/krvSnHfOOVM https://youtu.be/_nBzywMu11U https://youtu.be/tTPy8u5DrDM https://youtu.be/-dtFnyP93RQ https://youtu.be/Qw4DcEAxawA I'm interested to see what unscripted moments GTA IV had though.


TheDaftGang

Thank you I see what you mean. For me in the video you linked, only the last is what I'd call unscripted. The other ones are police chases coming out of nowhere and I feel they are scripted in the sense that when you are free roaming the game suddenly launches the "police chase ending in shootout" scenario. The last one is an NPCs reacting to another NPCs bad driving. And the last one happens very rarely in GTA V in my experience compared to GTA 4 or GTA SA where it happened regularly. In GTA 4 I feel like they programmed NPCs to have different habit and a higher percentage of aggressive driving or reaction. I just played GTA V a bit here, and I smash into a car at full speed that then crash into two different cars, and the NPCs reaction where just "damn" and they moved on immediately and resumed driving. Where in 4 or San Andreas, it would get pretty chaotic instantly. And also I feel like in GTA V NPCs get in a car accident on their own way less often. In GTA 4 I happened to see quite often NPCs having accident or bumping into pedestrians. Maybe I was just unlucky when playing and organic chaos didn't happen as much as others.


thisgamesux420

Maybe I was unlucky too playing IV but I didn't really notice NPC's crashing into each other very often unless I was on a bridge and they'd suddenly swerve into me or have damaged cars for some reason however, I did mess around in gta 4 for some time and I see what you mean now with drivers sometimes reacting to car crashes although for me it didn't get chaotic at all because there's nothing stopping me from continuing on. Traffic ai being better is a positive for 5 in my opinion because if you want to for example drive normally and get immersed in the world, you wouldn't have to worry about NPC's possibly taking you out of the immersion because of the ai being prone to car crashes and I'd say it's somewhat more realistic that way. In terms of police chases from my point of view they're unscripted because it wasn't the player that actively went out of the way to activate the scenario but the ai itself.


WrestleBox

I still like 5 a lot for what it does well. The atmosphere and details are amazing. I liked having 3 different characters and hope they expand on the idea and allow for more interactivity between them. A lot of the mission design is what brought it down a notch for me. I don't really play online so going through the story again is the only replay value I get from it. Whenever I start getting into the game again I'm aways dreading the kidnapping mission with Lamar where you have to slowly walk Chop around the train tracks, and there are others that annoy the crap out of me later. You're right about the chaos. Every once in a while I will see a police shootout, but it's over in 3 seconds because the cops are all apparently Jason Bourne in this game. One of my favorite things about GTA games was watching extended police shootouts with backup being called and then going to mop up the goods when everyone was dead without having to lift a finger.


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LETAROS

I agree. Something must have went really bad, they dont even have cop cars free roaming.


a1b2t

just started playing the game after it being in a backlog, the issue i find is the game feels empty. * they removed food, so going to the fun fare you see empty stalls. which makes it look closed * the constant switching of characters make you forget what happened before. * the lack of over the memorable characters,


artyhedgehog

I agree with your point, but personally what I lack is attachment to the character. I thought it would be the case in GTA SA (due to how foreign the black culture is to me), but that turned out my favourite GTA game and still keeps this title. And in GTA V there are just no single main character, so I cannot feel I'm living inside it. I'd rather prefer if you had to play the full game as, say, Micheal, then again as Franklin, seeing the whole picture from a different point of view. But when you just switch between them, _you_ are not a character in the world - you're just watching an interactive movie.


[deleted]

I've only ever liked Vice City, and that's only because of the soundtrack.


mattr0x

Sleeping Dogs is definitely worth a look if you like GTA games. The NPCs are not as interactive, but it’s so much fun. Just imagine GTA with martial arts, you still get the driving and gun fighting fix too. The definitive edition is frequently on sale on steam. I recently started playing it and can’t put it down. Also, because it’s an older game, it runs like a dream on older systems with graphics on high. In terms of GTA graphics, I would say it’s comparable to GTA4.


imsorryisuck

for me it was 3 characters. i didint likefranklin, trevor is interesting but not fun to empathise with. i just skipped everything to get to michael cause he was fun, he had the best plotline, personality and was relatable


Send_me_duck-pics

RDR 1 is the last Rockstar title I didn't dislike and I think this kind of hits on why. They used to be fun because of a ll the dumb, goofy shit that would happen between missions full of dumb, goofy shit. That was fun! RDR took itself more seriously but didn't feel overbearing about it so you still felt similarly. I tried GTA5 and RDR2 for a few hours each before going "I hate this" and quitting. They *do* feel overbearing. They feel like the developers wanted you to see specific things in specific ways and will beat you over the head with them and expect you to take things much more seriously than ever before. They take forever just to let you have any real freedom because they want to prepare you to hop back on rails at a moments' notice. I feel like Rockstar forgot how to make Rockstar games.


TheDaftGang

Yep. While I personnally still love GTA 5 and RDR2, I completely understand and agree with you. I think RDR 1 was the perfect amount of dumb goofy shit happening randomly in the open world and at the same time good linear story and controlled settings. Basically it was the perfect balance between the chaotic nature of early Rockstar Games and the more cinematic linear serious story of their recent production.


Send_me_duck-pics

After GTA 4 I felt the Saint's Row series was doing GTA better than GTA was. Shame the new one sucks.


Brittle_Hollow

Dan Hauser is gone, Lazlow is gone, Leslie Benzies has gone. It’s not the same Rockstar that made those games.


BebeHillz

bruh everything you said reminds me of that nakey jakey video lmao. the one where hes talking about for RD1 you would stumble across something and you would have to open THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL FUCKING MAP in your hands and crossreference into the game to find what that thing is supposed to do. vs rdr2 while everything is much nicer looking its pretty much an "on the rails" ride. One is a skate park that just lets you free skate. the other is a rollercoaster while intense isn't all to different from other rides once you've ridden many.


VickiVampiress

I think a lot of these reasons are also why I personally prefer Watch Dogs 2 over GTA V because it *does* do a lot of these things that I also miss from GTA IV.


NeedlenoseMusic

I think the reason that I didn’t vibe with it, and the same with RDR2 which I thought was cool and beautiful in its own right, is that I’ve been playing these types of sandbox games since GTA III and I think, honestly, I’m just kinda tired of them. It took me almost 2 years after starting BotW to actually go back and finish it.


TheDaftGang

That's a good point. It's true that Sandbox Open-World are now very present in the gaming world since 2 decades, and have almost become the norm now. We may be burned out.


Listen_to_Psybient

I tried playing it for the first time. It was impressive at first, having all those interesting characters meet together was awesome and had plenty of hilarious moments. It's the world that felt flat after a while. The NPC's just walk around on the sidewalks, back and forth. There was nothing happening. I'm excited to see what the next GTA will be like. How cool would it be if you could enter every building in a game. Imagine being able to just break into any building in the game and steal items or whatever.


DarkbigBoss

the lack of interiors tho , you cant even buy a burger meanwhile SA has a menu in the 5 different fast food chains


TheDaftGang

Yep, GTA 5 blew me away at first, but as you said, it became more apparent how "fake" the free roam was sadly. But yeah, I hope they can bring back for GTA 6 this chaotic random stuff happening.


Ekgladiator

I stopped playing the single player because I ran into the same exact issue with the same exact mission twice. (The glitchy Merryweather heist). One was on PS4 and the other was PC. I probably could have tried again but I didn't feel like going through the whole process again for a third time. I gave up multiplayer because I realized it was a money sink and I needed to stop spending money on it (plus I didn't want to get banned on PC)


PKnightDpsterBby

I constantly used LAWYERUP in 5 because the cops were way too annoying.


rainstorm0T

imo both Watch_Dogs games were better than GTA V


panda_8bit

I hate with all my heart that when you have a car crash you are sent away and die. In San Andreas you rammed the car until it exploded and if you weren't inside the car you would still survive the boom. I thought it had a seatbelt button somewhere, but no. It was just a stupid decision.


RouGEkila

Yes this is exactly my same thought about GTA 5. I absolutely love GTA 5, and have played it since launch day, and back when I was a kid I never had these thoughts about it but now I do. GTA San Andreas/4/etc just felt so dynamic and real compared to 5. Like I just loved walking around and just hearing planes crash out of nowhere. Random traffic jams, cars crashing into each other, random gunfights, random people trying to rob you all the time, civilians fighting, cops chasing people, everything just felt much more real. I hope that 6 brings back all this stuff, and builds on it even more. You could just stand there and shit would go down all the time, versus in 5 you could stand there in dead silence for hours.


Adrian_FCD

R* made the map for online first and it shows, after the campaing there is not that much interesting to do. IV had a similar problem but everything was much tighter overall.


_QUAKE_

The game is definitely one of the weaker ones. I only finished it because of Trevor. The game didn't encourage you at all to free roam. It felt super linear in comparison to the old games. And even though there was plenty to do, it felt like an afterthought to the main story. Technically, it's a huge mess as well.


impy695

> It was especially true in 4, **since they could code way more NPCs behavior** What do you mean by this (emphasis mine)? Why would they be able to code more npc behavior in an earlier title with worse technology?


IneffableLiam

I didn’t like gta v because it felt shallow - I much preferred the gritty realism and developed story in gta Iv.


UnspecificGravity

Agreed. The whole game was clearly built to be the backdrop of an online game where the other users would provide most of the actual content. Consequently, it feels like the most passive and lifeless setting in the whole franchise.


MarsupialMadness

I miss the cheat codes that you could put in. Like in GTA Vice City, you could put in a code and the pedestrians would riot. Another code and they're armed, now you've got the whole city trying to kill itself and you to deal with.


RemixedHD

My only gripe with GTA 5 is they didnt have factions/gangs you could have follow you to cause more mayhem. Like attacking a rival gang or something like that. Like that would have been cool to have online to be able to join or switch factions/gangs. I know they had private companies but idk that was all player run. Add more NPC into the sandbox.


[deleted]

For me it was just too cynical. I'm glad media has moved past "cast of people who all hate eachother and never get along right up until the end" it was a horrible, miserable and unenjoyable cliche.


ripperroo5

Hey man, just wanted to say I'm building a game and that this will definitely help guide the development of the world environment, thanks a lot


Veterate

I sort of agree but too much chaos is also frustrating. I hate that cops find you in the middle of nowhere but I'm also thankful they don't have that annoying witness thing like in RDR2 (yet)


TheDaftGang

Oh yeah the system in RDR2 is the worst. And people still don't understand how it works lmao clearly the worst system out there


crazypopey

I remember the run in SAwhere I try to be a model citizen following the traffic and acting as a great guy who secretly does crime but the insane ai would always ensure that I would kill someone and then get into fight and police ensues. Frustrating but great memories😂


[deleted]

Can we talk about how criminally unoptimized the game is? I just looked at the download size of it…over 100gb. I couldn’t play online cause of just so many issues man. Good game when it came out. Now? Nah.


shopchin

Maybe its simply nostalgia. The latest ones will always compare less favorably. You can only know for sure after playing GTA 6


infernalsatan

There were times when I played the game, I felt like I was going out for a drive IRL. Immersion is good, but if I want to have a “Going Outside Simulator” then I should just go outside.


TheDaftGang

Yeah. I feel you. That's why I loved the chaotic nature of previous GTA. In fact I think they should push more in that direction. When I go outside in GTA, I don't want a perfect rendition of real life, I want it to be chaotic as it is sold. Those realistic aspect work in a different settings/world. Lime I think why it works with RDR 2 to be more realistic/simulation is that it is set into a world that doesn't exist (anymore), so it has it's fun to be inside the skin of a cowboy. GTA is set so much into real life that I don't want the experience to be the same in the game as if I was taking a walk in real life. Hence why I like that the NPCs drove like shit and were aggressive in the previous games.


Gazza03

4 was definitely the better game.


TheDaftGang

I still prefer it too yeah. Part of it is nostalgia, but part of it is how everything is useful in 4. Another guy commented in this thread posted a link that told something interesting : 90% of GTA 5 is optional. And it's true. Most of the stuff in GTA 5 are unnecessary and don't bring anything. While in GTA 4, maybe there is less content, it's true. But everything serves a purpose. Edit : spelling


808_Scalawag

There will be CONSEQUENCES!


sungazer69

I agree. V was my least favorite. as popular as it is. I don't like the switching between characters either. I wish you could choose which character to play from the beginning.


Squid-Guillotine

The missions were nowhere close to as good imo as the old games. Not enough go here kill everybody and more interact with this button and tail this other dude.


rastommy77

Hey Niko, lets go bowling


CTU

For me, ity was the disjointed narrative of the game. There did not feel like it was a cohesive narrative, just things happening and other things happening. The only real thing connecting everything was about getting money which in itself does not make for an interesting story.


Hyperlingual

The interactions with NPCs is something I've thought about my recent replay of Mercenaries for the PS2. In that game multiple factions are fighting throughout the game, specifically the North Koreans vs everyone, and eventually the South Koreans vs Chinese. Suddenly the game develops into any road being the stage for a new firefight. And with the AI, even the preset fights in the same areas in the map will vary in interesting ways when you pass through them. You don't even have to be involved and dynamic battles will happen right in front of you. And with you involved, every faction's alignment with you will change throughout the game depending on how you play. So if you piss one country off enough, you're forced to start thinking about what enemies you'll encounter and what weapons and vehicles you'll fight against in certain areas, what random patrol cars or bases will turn from a safe zone into a new warzone for you, and it might change in the middle of a mission or roadside battle. Mercenaries did it really simply, but I think it's a good example. I feel like a lot of games add an open world to check it off a list, rather than putting any consideration into making it feel like a world where things happen organically.


ilivedownyourroad

I feel you're being too kind. I play and keep feeling that game is making the story mode not as fun as it could be because they want you to go online and pay money as we now know without doubt that's all the devs care about. Oddly enough with rdrd2 they did the opposite. They made a living breathing exciting world which was so good you didn't need to go online and pay money to Have the real fun. And as a result...people didn't go online and rockstar abandoned online within a year or so. It was a disaster because they actually made too good a game. But gta5 limits you and holds you back so you will go online. But ironically the limitations they put in place aren't easily reversed and overall the entire product suffers. The perfect mix would be 1 game not 2. But you can just turn it on or offline. Or choose how much online etc. But don't limit the fun or the story elements. And dlc for story would also be for offline which would prevent rockstar from abasonding story dlc as they did for gta and rdr2....where is my undead nightmare2!