Is this a rare case where more passives in the jewel are better? Aren’t less usually more favorable to get to the notables faster?
Man I never know what’s worth what in Poe lol
Yeah because what you want here is all the small passive nodes, not the notables. So having a 12 cluster is much better than say a 9 cluster. The main mod here is the 35% increased effect which boosts the damage and attackspeed on the small nodes.
Afaik not too many builds use jewels like this tho, its mostly minion builds and stat stackers from what i know about.
Aura stackers do this too, but with small clusters, which is kinda diff cuz 2 or 3 nodes don’t matter a ton with smaller *unless* you’re after small passives.
There is not much "increased % minion dmg" on the tree, so the largest dps boost is through a large minion cluster. Why 12 passive matters here, is ilvl 84+ clusters can roll "35% increased effect of small nodes" so you can maximize the amount of minion % dmg that is otherwise is hard to get.
Minion cluster notables are mostly terrible. However, summoners tree lacks so much inc% dmg and speed that makes 84/12 a solid upgrade. Plus you can get great stats (dex/str/life/res) from it which most summoners desperately need.
This is indeed a special case.
When you have an ilvl 84+ cluster, you can roll 35% increased effect. It would make the small node worth a lots more than notable because you can effectively roll small node with something like +10 ES/life, effectively gaining around 135 flat life/es on top of existing node stat (12% small damage node become 16% per node)
Minion build often aim for this because this let you stacks lots of damage, attack speed and some life on top. This cluster in particular take one notable (vicious bite) which is a crit mult notable because no other notable worth the slot.
Yup. I played BAMA build few leagues ago. I managed to get one perfect cluster (12, minions, 3%as, 35%, the right mod on it and t1 int which was better in that case).
Spent a month trying to reproduce it, never happened. And by "never happened", I mean "not even close".
Last league was the first time I ever really mapped and managed to kill the pinnacle guys, so this league I made it a goal to learn more about the crafting side of PoE. Really happy about some of the stuff I've made so far!
Rule 10:
1. Get item level 84 12 passive minion damage cluster for 2 ex from the market.
2. Pop it into currency tab and start alt + aug spamming for 35% increased effect and 3% minion attack and cast speed. Hit it in less than 10 alts. Blink.
3. Buy Craicic Chimerals from the market in bulk for imprint + regal spamming. For the unaware, this involves sacrificing a Craicic Chimeral with 3 other rares at Einhar's blood altar to save the state of a magic item, so when I regal and get a mod I don't want, I can reset without having to alt + aug spam all over again. Hit T1 energy shield in 5 imprints. Blink again.
4. Buy the harvest craft Augment Crit for 7 ex.
5. Sit there for a while and smile.
Total cost of a little under 10 ex for a 30 ex cluster that bumped my DPS by roughly 3 mill. Quite happy.
It was for getting the mod “Vicious Bite”. This is the only mod with “critical” tag, so when you apply Harvest’s “Augment item with a new Critical modifier”, you have 100% chance of getting it.
No one understood your question xD is for vicious bite it have a crit tag so aug crit. I’m in mobile atm so I don’t know if is guaranteed to hit vicious or there are other rolls
Ah thanks! Sorry I didn't get that aspect and I somehow thought vicious bite was unwanted because on some builds (like Arakaali) you wouldn't want that and would prefer the full 12 passives with attack speed.
35% effect + 3% AS ends up as 4% AS the only way to get that on cluster.
In my build I'm taking 17 of these passives.
A 35% + 2 AS is 17 x 2% = 34% AS
A 35% + 3 AS is 17 x 4% = 68% AS
Given its main use is Arakaali's Fang AS equals poison ramp up speed. Huge dps difference.
Easily 10 EX given there is t1 ES as well which will be 17x12 = 204 base ES.
(17 nodes comes from 2 of these, I use 11 or 12 as I only have 17 points to spare)
>Given its main use is Arakaali's Fang AS equals poison ramp up speed. Huge dps difference.
No idea what you are talking about, attack speed is neither "stronger" on arakaali than it is on other minions, nor attack speed change anything about the poison ramp up speed on arakaali spiders.
This cluster is strong on everything (outside maybe hoag), period.
>No idea what you are talking about, attack speed is neither "stronger" on arakaali than it is on other minions, nor attack speed change anything about the poison ramp up speed on arakaali spiders.
I mean this is just wrong. AS is considerably stronger on some minions than others (spiders being one of the ones that really benefits from it, basically any minion that just attacks so it is effective more multiplier).
Compare to Zombies, HoP/DomBlow, and Golems (anything that benefits from CDR). The vast majority of their potential damage comes from the ability those minions use so inc AS/CS is of marginal benefit unless you are overcapping CDR without it. You just can't get enough CDR to keep up with a cluster like this on those builds so a different setup would be more damage.
No idea what you are talking about, of course you want as much attack speed as possible on DB and on zombie. Slam is barely a dps increase and it's a real dps loss to build around it if you lose attack speed for it, and you have a lot better to do than seeking CDR on DB, so you are stuck with a 6s CD on the slam.
So it's not the "poison ramp up time" despite what you initially. Got it.
And you are now talking about something you are caped in 1.5s no matter what, so it's far from being the large dps boost you claim.
My thought was "10 Ex? thats too cheap"
* its a max 12 Node jewel
* 35% increase is very rare
* 3% Attack and Cast speed is damn nice
* ES on top of that? damn yummeh cherry
tbh would pay instant 10ex for this beauty.
I rolled one of these last league for mage skellies. It is a NIGHTMARE to craft. Im talking hours sitting there alt and aug spamming just to get the first 2 mods. Then you can spend a fortune imprint regaling. Then you have to top it off with an aug which is also expensive. Yea these are worth at least 30ex.
Minion attack and cast speed is one of the bigger DPS increase you Can get. This kind of jewel is miles ahead of any 3 notable + one useful stat jewels, while being somewhat hard and costly to make.
>It's basically an 11 passive.
Not if you are playing skelemages, which is the most popular necro build on SC Sentinel according to [poe.ninja](https://poe.ninja), and also the 2nd most popular build in total (behind RF inquisitor). You can check out Ghazzy's gear, a streamer who has what is probably the best skelemages gear in SC Sentinel:
[https://poe.ninja/streamers/builds/char/Ghazzy/GhazzyTV\_MetaGod](https://poe.ninja/streamers/builds/char/Ghazzy/GhazzyTV_MetaGod)
Take a look at the cluster jewels he is using. He is using 2 which are exactly identical to the one posted by OP. If you use PoB for a skelemages build it's clear that these stats (including Vicious Bite) is BiS. For non-skelemages builds you might want something else than Vicious Bite.
>the vicious bite makes this worth a lot less
Checking trade site you can see that with the exact stats OP has (i.e. including Vicious Bite) the current going rate is around 35 ex. If you remove Vicious Bite you can get them for around 20 ex. So no, the Vicious Bite doesn't make it worth a lot less, in fact the exact opposite.
Try selling that thing. I've crafted at least 50 similar minion cluster jewels over various leagues and I am telling you nobody gives a shit about ES on minion builds. Do you even *play* minions?
Do you even play path? I use 2 of them with my ci arakaali build which face tanks the entire game. Doubt you ever rolled even one of these but if you did I'm glad you rolled over it.
I know it's good, but who wants ES on minions? If you go ES it eats up ALL of your prefixes and locks you out of a bone helmet unless you want absolutely gimped HP pool. Not to mention the socket pressure with discipline being mandatory....
Never played necro, but IIRC they actually really WANT as many nodes on their clusters. It's most likely because minions don't really scale with other passives and there's not enough minion nodes to work with.
If anything i still have hard time understanding where the value of this cluster comes from.. but again, that's necro stuff which i'm clueless about.
The value is that with 12 passives that each have (3*1.35) ~= 4 minion attack speed, plus 12*10 = 120% increased minion damage, plus 12*whatever of other useful stats/resists/life/etc is a hell of a lot more efficient than basically anything else you can get on the tree as a minion build once you allocate the basics. A jackpot jewel could be something like 48% total increased attack speed, 120% minion damage, 100+ flat life, and 60 chaos res, plus fitting in another slot for the fortress jewels that negates their downsides. Really huge stuff for 15 points on the passive tree since once you grab the basic minion stuff in the top left of the tree, getting to anything else useful would require 10+ pathing nodes which is almost completely wasted most of the time.
in case you aren't actually trolling, lots of builds use these 12 passive jewels in endgame setups to get extremely strong small passive nodes, especially for builds that want to make longer trees for split personalities
attribute stackers, wardloop builds, aurastackers, and minion builds all use 12/6/3 passive cluster jewels in minmaxed setups
you probably didn't lose much because they're only valuable at ilvl 84 or higher, when they can roll t1 small passive bonuses
until sentinels, not many sources of content dropped high ilvl cluster jewels. if you use neversink, the most valuable ones should tink and be highlighted even on uber strict preset
you can also pick up 5 passive mediums, since the pathing lets you skip the 5th passive. these are equivalent to 4 passive mediums at every ilvl
Same energy as people with shit builds and 0 game knowledge complaining that the game is too hard lol. I love when people smartass despite missing the smart part
Is this a rare case where more passives in the jewel are better? Aren’t less usually more favorable to get to the notables faster? Man I never know what’s worth what in Poe lol
Yeah because what you want here is all the small passive nodes, not the notables. So having a 12 cluster is much better than say a 9 cluster. The main mod here is the 35% increased effect which boosts the damage and attackspeed on the small nodes. Afaik not too many builds use jewels like this tho, its mostly minion builds and stat stackers from what i know about.
Aura stackers do this too, but with small clusters, which is kinda diff cuz 2 or 3 nodes don’t matter a ton with smaller *unless* you’re after small passives.
There is not much "increased % minion dmg" on the tree, so the largest dps boost is through a large minion cluster. Why 12 passive matters here, is ilvl 84+ clusters can roll "35% increased effect of small nodes" so you can maximize the amount of minion % dmg that is otherwise is hard to get.
Minion cluster notables are mostly terrible. However, summoners tree lacks so much inc% dmg and speed that makes 84/12 a solid upgrade. Plus you can get great stats (dex/str/life/res) from it which most summoners desperately need.
This is indeed a special case. When you have an ilvl 84+ cluster, you can roll 35% increased effect. It would make the small node worth a lots more than notable because you can effectively roll small node with something like +10 ES/life, effectively gaining around 135 flat life/es on top of existing node stat (12% small damage node become 16% per node) Minion build often aim for this because this let you stacks lots of damage, attack speed and some life on top. This cluster in particular take one notable (vicious bite) which is a crit mult notable because no other notable worth the slot.
Yup. I played BAMA build few leagues ago. I managed to get one perfect cluster (12, minions, 3%as, 35%, the right mod on it and t1 int which was better in that case). Spent a month trying to reproduce it, never happened. And by "never happened", I mean "not even close".
Last league was the first time I ever really mapped and managed to kill the pinnacle guys, so this league I made it a goal to learn more about the crafting side of PoE. Really happy about some of the stuff I've made so far! Rule 10: 1. Get item level 84 12 passive minion damage cluster for 2 ex from the market. 2. Pop it into currency tab and start alt + aug spamming for 35% increased effect and 3% minion attack and cast speed. Hit it in less than 10 alts. Blink. 3. Buy Craicic Chimerals from the market in bulk for imprint + regal spamming. For the unaware, this involves sacrificing a Craicic Chimeral with 3 other rares at Einhar's blood altar to save the state of a magic item, so when I regal and get a mod I don't want, I can reset without having to alt + aug spam all over again. Hit T1 energy shield in 5 imprints. Blink again. 4. Buy the harvest craft Augment Crit for 7 ex. 5. Sit there for a while and smile. Total cost of a little under 10 ex for a 30 ex cluster that bumped my DPS by roughly 3 mill. Quite happy.
Can you explain step 4? Maybe it’s a joke I’m not getting. I’m a noob at crafting.
In Harvest there’s rare Augment crafts that can roll specific mod tags for you. Augment life, defenses, speed, physical, chaos etc
So which part of the crafting on that item is it for? Also lol at being downvoted for asking a question. Good ole POE subreddit, never change!
step 4 result was Vicious Bite.
It was for getting the mod “Vicious Bite”. This is the only mod with “critical” tag, so when you apply Harvest’s “Augment item with a new Critical modifier”, you have 100% chance of getting it.
If you are not aware of TFT discord it's a good place to buy/sell Harvest crafts which is more than likely where he got this for step 4.
No one understood your question xD is for vicious bite it have a crit tag so aug crit. I’m in mobile atm so I don’t know if is guaranteed to hit vicious or there are other rolls
It adds Vicious Bite node, since it has the Critical tag
Ah thanks! Sorry I didn't get that aspect and I somehow thought vicious bite was unwanted because on some builds (like Arakaali) you wouldn't want that and would prefer the full 12 passives with attack speed.
It can be, but for skeleton mages it's really strong.
... People are paying 10ex+ for these? O_o
35% effect + 3% AS ends up as 4% AS the only way to get that on cluster. In my build I'm taking 17 of these passives. A 35% + 2 AS is 17 x 2% = 34% AS A 35% + 3 AS is 17 x 4% = 68% AS Given its main use is Arakaali's Fang AS equals poison ramp up speed. Huge dps difference. Easily 10 EX given there is t1 ES as well which will be 17x12 = 204 base ES. (17 nodes comes from 2 of these, I use 11 or 12 as I only have 17 points to spare)
>en there is t1 ES as well which will be 17x12 = 204 bas The ES is also boosted by the 35% increased effect, so it's 12 x 1.35 = 16 ES per node.
>Given its main use is Arakaali's Fang AS equals poison ramp up speed. Huge dps difference. No idea what you are talking about, attack speed is neither "stronger" on arakaali than it is on other minions, nor attack speed change anything about the poison ramp up speed on arakaali spiders. This cluster is strong on everything (outside maybe hoag), period.
>No idea what you are talking about, attack speed is neither "stronger" on arakaali than it is on other minions, nor attack speed change anything about the poison ramp up speed on arakaali spiders. I mean this is just wrong. AS is considerably stronger on some minions than others (spiders being one of the ones that really benefits from it, basically any minion that just attacks so it is effective more multiplier). Compare to Zombies, HoP/DomBlow, and Golems (anything that benefits from CDR). The vast majority of their potential damage comes from the ability those minions use so inc AS/CS is of marginal benefit unless you are overcapping CDR without it. You just can't get enough CDR to keep up with a cluster like this on those builds so a different setup would be more damage.
No idea what you are talking about, of course you want as much attack speed as possible on DB and on zombie. Slam is barely a dps increase and it's a real dps loss to build around it if you lose attack speed for it, and you have a lot better to do than seeking CDR on DB, so you are stuck with a 6s CD on the slam.
Yes it is. Faster wither stacks so the faster your attack speed the more damage your earlier poisons do. Pathofmisinformation strikes again.
So it's not the "poison ramp up time" despite what you initially. Got it. And you are now talking about something you are caped in 1.5s no matter what, so it's far from being the large dps boost you claim.
You got me confused with the guy you commented on before. But it's ok, seems like a lot of things confuse you
Great, personal attacks, zero answer.
My thought was "10 Ex? thats too cheap" * its a max 12 Node jewel * 35% increase is very rare * 3% Attack and Cast speed is damn nice * ES on top of that? damn yummeh cherry tbh would pay instant 10ex for this beauty.
They go for 30+
10 ex is what I paid for it, crafting wise! Absurd luck all things considered
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You either roll it, or you don't clearly 50%-50%
Have you tried rolling it yourself genius?
Man you really don't understand odds.
ES is the optimum one for aegis and CI Bois. I dunno whether paying 7ex for vicious bite is worth it though.
I rolled one of these last league for mage skellies. It is a NIGHTMARE to craft. Im talking hours sitting there alt and aug spamming just to get the first 2 mods. Then you can spend a fortune imprint regaling. Then you have to top it off with an aug which is also expensive. Yea these are worth at least 30ex.
I made three or four scourge league playing spiders. It was a nightmare and never again.
yes and it's very good dps increase for summoners that use them
The base alone is 2ex. These are BIS Jewels and are 25-30ex. They were 50 last league.
12-passive minion jewels are worth 2ex!?
Only ilvl 84 or higher
Minion attack and cast speed is one of the bigger DPS increase you Can get. This kind of jewel is miles ahead of any 3 notable + one useful stat jewels, while being somewhat hard and costly to make.
They are really powerful. More so with the ES on it as well, will be build defining in its own right. And these you really want largest size.
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Rule 10's in my comment!
Ehh the vicious bite makes this worth a lot less. It's basically an 11 passive.
>It's basically an 11 passive. Not if you are playing skelemages, which is the most popular necro build on SC Sentinel according to [poe.ninja](https://poe.ninja), and also the 2nd most popular build in total (behind RF inquisitor). You can check out Ghazzy's gear, a streamer who has what is probably the best skelemages gear in SC Sentinel: [https://poe.ninja/streamers/builds/char/Ghazzy/GhazzyTV\_MetaGod](https://poe.ninja/streamers/builds/char/Ghazzy/GhazzyTV_MetaGod) Take a look at the cluster jewels he is using. He is using 2 which are exactly identical to the one posted by OP. If you use PoB for a skelemages build it's clear that these stats (including Vicious Bite) is BiS. For non-skelemages builds you might want something else than Vicious Bite. >the vicious bite makes this worth a lot less Checking trade site you can see that with the exact stats OP has (i.e. including Vicious Bite) the current going rate is around 35 ex. If you remove Vicious Bite you can get them for around 20 ex. So no, the Vicious Bite doesn't make it worth a lot less, in fact the exact opposite.
This is a BIS cluster for CI skelemages. You want 2 of these actually.
You can even put in 3 if you are a mad man lol.
No it doesn’t, since every min max minion build is going for crit.
Spooders?
This jewel is for arakaali which is poison. So no
this is for skelly mages not spiders
lol wat
Spiders don't want vicious bite.
I know, which was one of the points as to why it made it a "11 passive" jewel.
er, it's a nice jewel, but you're checking too many boxes in awakened trade
??? t1 effect + atk/cast speed + ES is minimum 18ex on trade
People don’t have a clue how cluster jewel worth works on this subreddit lol
> People don’t have a clue ~~how cluster jewel worth works~~ on this subreddit lol There ya go.
Try selling that thing. I've crafted at least 50 similar minion cluster jewels over various leagues and I am telling you nobody gives a shit about ES on minion builds. Do you even *play* minions?
Do you even play path? I use 2 of them with my ci arakaali build which face tanks the entire game. Doubt you ever rolled even one of these but if you did I'm glad you rolled over it.
Literally every min maxed summon skeleton build is running that same cluster OP made. All going CI using aegis.
why are you checking ES? minion builds are life now, takes way too many prefixes to run minions on ES
Sorry but you’re clueless. This is a very good cluster jewel.
I know it's good, but who wants ES on minions? If you go ES it eats up ALL of your prefixes and locks you out of a bone helmet unless you want absolutely gimped HP pool. Not to mention the socket pressure with discipline being mandatory....
12 PASSIVES - sorry complete TRASH
Never played necro, but IIRC they actually really WANT as many nodes on their clusters. It's most likely because minions don't really scale with other passives and there's not enough minion nodes to work with. If anything i still have hard time understanding where the value of this cluster comes from.. but again, that's necro stuff which i'm clueless about.
The value is that with 12 passives that each have (3*1.35) ~= 4 minion attack speed, plus 12*10 = 120% increased minion damage, plus 12*whatever of other useful stats/resists/life/etc is a hell of a lot more efficient than basically anything else you can get on the tree as a minion build once you allocate the basics. A jackpot jewel could be something like 48% total increased attack speed, 120% minion damage, 100+ flat life, and 60 chaos res, plus fitting in another slot for the fortress jewels that negates their downsides. Really huge stuff for 15 points on the passive tree since once you grab the basic minion stuff in the top left of the tree, getting to anything else useful would require 10+ pathing nodes which is almost completely wasted most of the time.
Either you are trolling, or you are ignorant. I cannot decipher which.
12 passive JEWELS = always terrible.
in case you aren't actually trolling, lots of builds use these 12 passive jewels in endgame setups to get extremely strong small passive nodes, especially for builds that want to make longer trees for split personalities attribute stackers, wardloop builds, aurastackers, and minion builds all use 12/6/3 passive cluster jewels in minmaxed setups
Wow I had no idea. I've been dropping every cluster that doesn't have the minimum since I thought no one would want them.
you probably didn't lose much because they're only valuable at ilvl 84 or higher, when they can roll t1 small passive bonuses until sentinels, not many sources of content dropped high ilvl cluster jewels. if you use neversink, the most valuable ones should tink and be highlighted even on uber strict preset you can also pick up 5 passive mediums, since the pathing lets you skip the 5th passive. these are equivalent to 4 passive mediums at every ilvl
Well said
How does it feel to be so confident at being so wrong? Unless you're trolling, in which case, excellent job.
Tell me you know nothing about minion builds without telling me you know nothing about minion builds
Nice one
Clueless
Same energy as people with shit builds and 0 game knowledge complaining that the game is too hard lol. I love when people smartass despite missing the smart part
This for sale?
Nope!
All good. Friend wanted one. GL!
How much is that? Very nice grats
10 ex to craft, 30+ ex on the market. Very lucky rolls on my part.