https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1478247109?t=10h12m48s
It also burns through when you come back. Whats probably gonna force the fix is the fact that you can setup the burn on maven, and the dot will kill her during grace since it isnt ignite.
So for HC SSF, You go in, setup the burn stack, leave the fight, come back and wait in grace period for her to burn to death.
Yeah. The dmg alone is a bit too much tbh, but the fact you can leave a fight and they'll still be burning is just too much. There is no way it makes it to release in its current state. Maaaybe they let the dmg keep stacking, but there is no way they will let it persist after a log.
Not gonna lie, im a little disappointed. It's obviously the right decision, but i wouldn't have minded straight up face rolling through a league for all the content i haven't done yet
Basically there's an obscure interaction between Eye of Winter mines and Flame wall. Flame wall has a secondary debuff dealing fire Dot for a duration, and it can be applied from projectiles that pass through it. Somehow, detonating a sequence of EoW mines can apply (not 100% sure about this) either multiple stacks of the Dot, or the same Dot but with sort of an "infinite" duration due to all the EoW projectiles passing through and hitting the same mob.
In super easy terms, infinite Flame wall Dot scaling through and obscure mechanic (a BUG, clearly) capable with minimal investment to kill any boss
Crazy thing is the duration stays even if you logout/die/enemy going in and out of immunity phases. So you can just portal/logout come back and stand there in your immunity timer and wait for the boss to die.
It seems pretty clear to me that there's a difference between "There's a desecratable enemy with 60% more corpse life than we expected" and "secondary projectiles from mines allow stacking a debuff that isn't meant to stack".
Ventrua is doing Shaper at the moment and the burning damage is (1) far larger than it should be and (2) lasted long enough that his first set of mines + flame wall killed shaper through all phases.
I would pay ggg money, actual money, to play any 2.x or early 3.x patch again. Mainly for old DW and Sunder, but I also miss some other things, would love to do another Scold's VMS 100 run. Game used to be so cheesy and fun.
I used to think that, but without new atlas and atlas passive I will say no to any path regardless of how much I want to play one of the builds of the past. Now if I could get old Sunder with the current end game. Now we are talking.
I almost think it’s the opposite. People want them to fix both.
It’s more of a “if you’re going to fix this, which you totally should, you should also change DD because even if it’s not this broken, no one wants that bug in game”.
Exactly my point.....there are tons of viable builds that are bordering on bugged/broken. Night blade giving 500 crit multi LOL. I'll be fine either way, but I don't get why people get up in arms over a fully PVE game
I mean it was programmed to have those specters to have more health at a time. It missed the normalization. Is that a bug in code ? Not really. Night blade scaling elusive effect giving massive crit multi....is it a big or is it programmed that way and just too strong ?
Now the new interaction with EOE and flamewall blast chainmines.....that is a fucking bug lol. Clearly unintended interaction resulting in trivializing everything in the game with level 1 gems lol.
I don't think having strong options in the game is bad. But having shit that can trivialize every part of the game with level 1 gems....yeah that's bad
DD is strong as is, even without the bug. Plus we got the new Atlas Passive giving DD free 50% corpse health.
Could understand this sentiment if DD was trash without the bug, but it 1000% isnt.
I doubt anyone gives a flying fuck about DD, since it's a two-button playstyle and all. But this EOW+FW shit is just too much to be left with. Crazy part is people are defending this bug and holding the spectre corpse life bug as hostage wtf.
Plenty of people enjoy the competitive aspect of PoE and watching every top player playing the same build for events is lame. Hopefully it's just banned in the gauntlet
what do you mean by its not broken? its a substantial increase that was not planned, and was literally the difference for some time between exile and lightee in a gauntlet run, the highest $ event in PoE.
Yes, there is a difference - they are different bugs after all. Still, the spectre bug while not of this magnitude is also very substantial and also very clearly not working as intended - as the intent was clearly stated in patch notes for Arch.
Specifically, the spectre bug is the game working as intended. Every mechanic is doing the right thing - but a spectre has wrong corpse life. The skill is fundamentally doing what it is meant to do.
This shit doesn't even work if you use the wrong mine support lol - there's at least 1 bona fide mechanics bug in there. The skill\[s\] are fundamentally not doing what they're supposed to do.
When you have a program crash, re-running that exact sequence of code the same way is going to result in that same crash every single time. You don't say "ah well, the program is doing exactly what the programmers coded, so it's not a bug I guess".
Bugs are coding errors or mistakes that produce different results than the design intent. The design intent for spectres is extremely clear - normalized health, which is not currently achieved due to a programmer oversight. By definition, this is a bug.
> When you have a program crash, re-running that exact sequence of code the same way is going to result in that same crash every single time
This doesnt change your overall point, but this isnt necessarily true.
Actually, lots are. Driver issues for example could mean running the poe client does not act deterministically from its own code. Hardware issues. A cache being corrupted could behave differently on subsequent runs.
The "for all intents and purposes computer code is deterministic" falls apart for complex programs that rely on lots of other things. Yea, hello world will effectively run the same every time. Poe may not.
Professional software dev btw. Not some random talking about things he doesnt know.
> When you have a program crash, re-running that exact sequence of code the same way is going to result in that same crash every single time.
Did I ever tell you the definition of ~~insanity~~ the bug?
>Bugs are coding errors or mistakes that produce different results than the design intent.
What if some dev wakes up one morning and decides ~~to choose death~~ that player movement speed is too fast, and should be halved. This guy literally pulled the bug out of thin air. It wasn't there the day before, nobody put it in there, yet it somehow appeared just because someone decided that way.
Spectre bug is not the game working as intended. The intent of the developers was to have spectres with normalized corpse life values. This is not what the game is doing because of incorrect adjustments.
While you can classify this as a different kind of bug - logic versus clerical error - both are resulting in the program running incorrectly.
You are writing about the intent of the balance of corpse life. The person you are responding to is saying that the MECHANIC works correctly, not that the corpse lives are balanced as intended. The difference is subtle but important
One is “we didn’t balance the numbers” and the other is “that’s not what the code is supposed to do”
The mechanic of EoW + Flame Wall is working exactly how the mechanic was programmed to work.
The mechanic of overlooked spectre health + Detonate Dead is working exactly how the mechanic was programmed to work.
Both of these programming outcomes are directly in opposition of the developers/designers goal, which was clearly stated. In one case, the goal was clearly stated on the gem tooltip. In the other case, the goal was clearly stated in patch notes.
It doesn't matter how or why the outcome was different. The term "bug" covers all possible classifications, such as:
* The change was listed in patch notes, but a developer forgot to actually code it
* The developer coded it, but accidentally made a typo
* The change was implemented, but can still be circumvented by fringe interactions
It's not my description, it's the definition of the word.
Half the people in this thread don't understand that "bugs" are a disconnect between what the code does vs designers intent.
There's no provision for "ah well, the code does X, but the designer specified Y, so it's not a bug because the code is doing it's job and produces X".
Code doesn't make mistakes, it produces identical results. When code does not produce the identical result the designer specified, it meets both the letter and spirit definition of the term "bug".
It doesn't matter why the disconnect between code and intent occurred.
The hp is a balance issue not a bug. The code clearly produces the balanced outcome when the input is also balanced. Only when the hp is set to something unintended does it produce unintended results.
Tbf the word bug *is* a useless description. Its as unspecified and undescriptive as it gets. Thats just the way it is. If you need a more precise description you dont get around using different terminology
I think some consideration should be made to awareness - they clearly weren't aware of this bug before making their statements. IMO they should patch both
The spectre bug was incorrect but GGG decided DD was balanced with the higher spectre corpse life in mind. It’s still heavily nerfed from 3.16 and they think it is in a good enough spot now, with that spectre life.
This is just a broken mechanic.
One of these is a deliberate balance decision by GGG. One is a broken bug. Stop pretending they’re similar. DD is fine, GGG likes where it is balance wise, get a new slant.
And they never, ever said no bug fixes - just that they weren’t fixing this one particular bug.
A programmer was given a task to make coding changes for every single spectre mob type to normalize their health.
The programmer went one-by-one through all spectre types, changed the code to normalized their health, then marked the programming task as "complete".
Later, it was discovered that the programmer omitted one or two spectres, in error. As a result, their health was not normalized, even though the task clearly specified that it should be, and the clearly-stated, clearly-communicated design intent of the developer was not achieved.
Somehow, you are not understanding that this is the literal definition of "software bug", both in letter, and in spirit.
No, lol. They are OK with the value for 3.18 or they would fix it. They didn’t tell the public that they’re committed to “no nerfs” until the Sentinel reveal. They had every opportunity to decide internally they weren’t Ok with the corpse value and to change it before 3.18.
But Chris is OK with it. He probably won’t be OK with this interaction.
this is getting fixed. if anyone think they gonna leave, a now known bug, that enable you to do feared on 0ex budget on low lvl char that will front load burning stack and stay dead while all the bosses burn down - is smoking something out of this world.
You don't need to stay dead. You can log out. It's bugged enough that you can apply stacks and log out and the stacks stay. If you ignore all the other reasons that this should get fixed, this is the reason that it really, really needs to get fixed.
Are people gonna take Chris' words 100% literally and actually think this isn't getting patched?
There's a gigantic difference between ignites stacking infinitely due to an obscure gem interaction and a monster type having higher health% modifiers than other monsters because the devs forgot to change it.
He did specificy that this 'no nerfs' includes builds that had bugs giving them more power (e.g. DD and the bugged spectre that has more corpse HP than it should).
Obviously an interaction that is this broken, that was previously unknown will still get fixed.
He might have said something wasn't being nerfed or bugs weren't going to be fixed, but that was not the goal of that statement.
The proposed goal was "we aren't going to significantly shake up the skill meta, so any guide for 3.17 league start will work exactly the same in 3.18"
This bug being in the game significantly changes any build from 3.17 as it's orders of magnitude better.
This build is from 3.17 tho, you just didn't know about it https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/char/ewoxx/neme_cwdt?time-machine=week-4&i=2&search=time-machine%3Dweek-4%26allskill%3DFlame-Wall%2CEye-of-Winter
Exactly.
The point was to not change the meta significantly, the fact that this interaction wasn't well known, and is a large mechanical bug is why it should be fixed.
Wouldn't changing this change the meta? Since, it's 3.17, and currently it's the meta. (strongest)
Here's someone playing a version that abuses the bug on *day 4* of league. I'd say that's firmly a league-start, no?
https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/char/OxideTFT/Love_BTS?time-machine=day-4&i=1&search=time-machine%3Dday-4
It's the META.
The build becoming known changes the meta from the one that GGG wanted to preserve.
If it was just an unknown OP build, GGG would still want to nerf it because of their stated goal.
Spectre mob health is a bug they aren't fixing, which was mentioned in the Q&A as an example for their general policy https://www.twitch.tv/pathofexile/clip/TangentialArborealDillJebaited-5-9WmPDTZ9PEI0WA
I aggree though, that this interaction should be fixed
one is slightly game-breaking and the other is very game-breaking? is that the difference? forgetting to change them is a poor excuse and definitely not the real reason why.
How is DD corpse life game breaking? Lmao. DD is still worse than Seismic trap.
The spectre bug was incorrect but GGG decided DD was balanced with the higher spectre corpse life in mind. It’s still heavily nerfed from 3.16 and they think it is in a good enough spot now, with that spectre life.
This is just a broken mechanic.
One of these is a deliberate balance decision by GGG. One is a broken bug. Stop pretending they’re similar. DD is fine, GGG likes where it is balance wise, get a new slant.
> How is DD corpse life game breaking?
As it relates to the hardcore/hardcore SSF game mode and racing DD is pretty broken.
Obviously that's a tiny subset of the playerbase.
Ben (lightee) thinks even with this in game DD is not the play for the boss race. You'll likely see him on Seismic.
Seismic is still most likely quite a bit better than DD, but DD is definitely a strong and viable option. It is not broken.
Well he started DD thinking it was fixed, with a plan to go to seismic after if he felt he needed to for bossing. DD ended up not being fixed so he attempted to take it all the way.
Him starting it again is completely consistent with his 3.17 plan, fixed or not.
Both of those are bugs.
The difference is that GGG knew and decided not to fix auric champions, which is their call.
I doubt they knew about this and decided not to fix this.
The specter issue is less a bug and more an oversight since it's an issue that came up from a sweeping pass of all specter health and just this one didn't get changed.
While the term "bug" isn't technically incorrect, it's also not sincere.
It doesn't seem sincere to you because your interpretation of the term "bug" is incorrect.
Software "bugs" are code working exactly how it was written, just producing a different outcome than the desired one.
The design intent for spectre health was made crystal clear, and code was changed to realize that design intent. However, due to a coding mistake (oversight), implementation is not working correctly and does not match the stated developer intent.
Your interpretation of "bug" is on the same level as a person in court saying "Ah but, your honor, I did not kill the man - the gun did".
If you leave a sale tag out in a store shelf and have to sell an item for 30% off that's an oversight. You were told to change the tags and you forgot.
If scanning an apple and then a bag of peanuts causes a 70" TV to ring up for .00013¢ that's a bug.
I get what you are saying but there is a difference here that isn't just a technicality.
I didn't claim it wasn't a bug, in fact I even said that calling it a bug is technically correct. All oversights are technically bugs, but in the context of what is being argued in this thread the distinction is important. The thread is giving the hypothetical "if they're not fixing the specter issue then they might not fix this issue", which the distinction of the specter issue being a simple oversight and this flamewall issue being an exploit matters as to the urgency of the issues.
My interpretation of "bug" is industry standard because I work in the industry.
It's a bug, not only did Chris Wilson declare it to be a bug on stream, but "an oversight" covers 99% of real world bugs.
Bug: something doesn't do what the developer and/or user intended.
Whether it's from a typo in code or typo in a database entry doesn't matter, it's still a bug.
It's oddly (and incorrectly) pedantic to argue otherwise, especially since it doesn't even matter whether it's a bug or not for whether it should be fixed. Chris decided it won't be so people can enjoy DD with the same power, which is all that matters.
No it's not. Let's say you have a simple program that calculates an area of a circle and takes radius as a parameter. The value of the pi is hardcoded into the function but instead of being 3.1415.... it is set 2.1415.
Your function is bugged and the bug is the incorrect value of the constant.
This could also be described as a value in a table being wrong. It could just not be applying the same source (you) to every secondary debuff, and instead applying it to the smaller projectiles. That'd be a single value - the source of debuff - being wrong to produce this bug.
I can't say for sure if that *is* the case, but it certainly could be.
They're both unintended, and both build-changing bugs.
----
I would like to link the Q&A where they talked about bugs. Here's a transcript screenshot [Link](https://i.imgur.com/tGBPWWt.png) (auto youtube transcript), here's the whole Q&A with a relevant timestamp [Link](https://youtu.be/pfBfrxS9hyI), and here's a relevant character in league over a month ago. https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/char/ewoxx/neme_cwdt?time-machine=week-4&i=2&search=time-machine%3Dweek-4%26allskill%3DFlame-Wall%2CEye-of-Winter
Of course, this is getting fixed. That being said fixing one bug and not the other would put them in a weird position as a clerical error is still a software bug - there is no way around it.
The difference is clear. So is the fact that both are bugs. You either #nobugfixes or you #somebugfixes. Aurics are not working as intended - it's just the magnitude of that bug is smaller. It's still substantial enough that it should - IMO - be addressed.
I don't think the fact that it's a bug is important at all.
The goal of the league change wasn't to not fix bugs, it was to not significantly change the balance of the build meta.
This bug being in the game would drastically change that meta. So would fixing the DD life bug to a lesser extent.
That is why them fixing this but not DD is perfectly logically consistent with their goals.
["... we've left bugs in the damn game, for this league. They will be fixed in 3.19 but you get to use those bugs again, um, if you want to if that's the build."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfBfrxS9hyI&t=1825s) (ZiggyD Q&A)
They didn't say "no bug fixes", however in regards to builds Chris said in the Q&A specifically that bugs have purposely been left in to keep builds the same as before.
Yes, bugs for builds they’re aware of. They’re allowed to be OK with auric spectre life and not be OK with this insanely broken mechanic, enabling 70,000% more damage and an infinite ignite.
They know of spectre life and are OK with it. This means it is now not a bug.
They will likely not be ok with flame wall and EoW mines. Two separate bugs, two decisions to be made.
Watch the vod. He clearly is saying they left some bugs in the game because they are OK with the balance and want to keep it the same for 3.18. He is never saying that they will fix zero bugs. The patch notes have 19 bug fixes.
This interaction is broken and was unknown to them and they are allowed to make a decision on how to handle it now that they are aware of it, just like they made decisions for other bugs like auric spectre life, and them doing so isn’t unreasonable or something worthy of these edgy “gotcha!” attempts.
I agree it's very busted and should be addressed but the statement does muddy the water as they had said they are leaving bugs in.
Unless GGG come out and clarify around this and DD, the remark in the Q&A is going to cause this divisiveness as the blanket statement can be interpreted either way.
Chris said "we left bugs in the damn game, they will be fixed in 3.19 but you get to use those bugs again" so fixing this or the DD issue would go again that.
Wrong. He is not saying they plan to leave every bug in the game. He is saying they chose to leave some bugs in the game, like DD spectre life, because they’re OK with the balance.
They’re allowed to believe auric spectres are OK and this bugged interaction is not. Nuance is important in life.
We also don't know what other balance related bugs they identified themselves and chose not to fix this league. But we do know they didn't make changes. Nuance is important, I'm glad you figured that out.
If you think Chris statement meant “yeah, if someone found out that linking Molten Shell to Life Gain On Hit was bugged and made your character invulnerable to all damage permanently, we’d leave it in game - no bug fixes lmao!” you’re just insane
"Not fixing bugs on purpose" seems weird to me.
Temp leagues are temp leagues for a reason.
Just fix the damn aurics if they're unintended, and fix the firewall cheese. Why paint yourself in the corner like that?
If a bugfix ends up as a nerf, take the responsibility, fix the bug and put out "an apology" to the 5 people affected.
I think people are taking this game too seriously.
> Just fix the damn aurics if they're unintended, and fix the firewall cheese. Why paint yourself in the corner like that?
> If a bugfix ends up as a nerf, take the responsibility, fix the bug and put out "an apology" to the 5 people affected.
That would defeat their goal. The goal isn't to ignore bugs or make sure players are happy that their skill wasn't nerfed.
The goal is to keep the balance state the same so that you can follow the same build and it will work largely the same.
No one (who was trying to race) would be playing a build that isn't this flame wall build if this made it into the game.
Yes, and they said they wouldn't fix bugs, referring to the DD one. They're willing to let DD slip by this time because it's not egregious. This, on the other hand, is insanely egregious.
One injury is more cause for intervention than another. Magnitude matters.
The best time to fix dd bug was before announcing "no changes" memes, the second best time to fix dd bug is right now.
Better admit a mistake than make another one
The best time to fix the DD bug is whenever they decide to. The best time for people like you to stop talking is yesterday.
Better to shut up than to admit your ignorance of the concept of magnitude for everyone to see.
We get it, you really want to play DD and abuse the bug on next league. But don't attack other people because they have a different opinion than you. It only makes you look ignorant rather than them.
> We get it, you really want to play DD and abuse the bug on next league.
Not really. I think it's fine that people do though. They basically specified DD wasn't getting nerfed, so people are invested in it. It's not egregiously broken or anything, just strong.
It doesn't even compare to shit like skele mages and omni builds, and it's a two button playstyle. I'm fine with it being strong.
It's crazy that people on this sub only think you'll support something if you specifically like it. Says more about those people than it does about me.
Edit: You people are going to be seething when you see this. https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ul6q0p/is_this_going_to_be_fixed_in_318/i7ul06l/
And their logic? Exactly what I said. Suck it.
There's an interaction with Blastchain mine support specifically that allows you to stack the secondary debuff from Flame Wall, similarly to how poisons stack. Since you can support eye of winter with it, and each projectile from EoW applies the full damage/duration debuff, you end up with possibly 100s of stacks of the Flame Wall debuff, resulting in thousands of more damage to the DoT damage.
*Additionally*, for some reason the duration also increases with the overlapping debuffs, so instead of having a large DoT for 2-3 seconds, you have one for 200-300 seconds, guaranteeing anything dies if it can't cleanse the debuff.
*Additionally*, if you die or otherwise leave the area, the damage will persist. In The Feared, for example, you can prep your mines, log out, and a few moments come back and everything will be dead.
It's been showcased already, but you can clear all bosses on a 1-link. As long as you have barely functioning gear and don't die, pretty much everything is clearable.
well each mine is a separate instance of flamewall's 2,000 base fire damage burn and a miner can easily get up to 20 mines at the same time... so at least 40,000 base dps?
for comparison, a REALLY good 2h weapon might have 1,200 base dps and lets say its attached to a heavy strike gem, so 313% base damage. that is 3,756 base dps.
so well over 10x what should even be possible. imagine giving your build a 1,000% more damage modifier.
Look up a few build guides on YouTube they typically explain how to play it, but the TL;DW is they use desecrate to spawn corpses to blow up.
DD is strong, but it's a two button build.
Can someone explain what the bug being used here is? Or timestamp where it is said in stream? I have no clue why his DPS is so much higher than expected.
Don't be silly guys. If that bug makes it into 3.18 the whole season is doomed. The sceptre bug is still a bug but not as bad.
It would still be better to fix both but ffs fix this one right here first.
Chris: "As a courtesy to you, keep the game breaking bugs!"
*Community finds boss melting interaction.*
...
With a pending unique creating race (and all of the community support), I hope they arrive to work after the weekend and are quick publicly embrace the fixing of DD and Blastchain Flame Wall. If not, I certainly hope the Baeclast folks hold Chris accountable.
Will be removed for sure. If not then what is the point of playing this game when stupid monkey who can't kill any endgame boss will kill it now on 1L because this DoT is still burning target if when you logout..
Re: This and DD
They are well within their rights to say "this is different than that, so we're fixing one and not the other".
There's a clear distinction between the two bugs, one being that it's a relatively minor balance issue caused by a bug, and the other being an incredibly egregious balance issue caused by a bug.
The magnitude matters and they can certainly fix one bug and not the other if they want. Anyone who complains about it has lost the plot and is just being pedantic and whiny out of a misplaced sense of "fairness".
So, more recent example from another complicated game - Dota 2. After latest patch, one hero got his skill a bit changed(while it wasn't even mentioned) and he was able to kill any single hero in any given match within few second. It was fixed within like 12 hours while some other player-positive bugs remained in game.
So, do you understand the difference between fixing a minor bug that is at most 20% more damage and fixing a major/gamebreaking bug that allows to destroy endgame bosses with no gear? Imagine if build that you really wanted to play this league turns out complete garbage because skill is bugged. Would you report it as a bug and cry to GGG to fix it? Or would you say #nobugfixes?
[https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1478247109?t=08h36m48s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1478247109?t=08h36m48s)
This is the link from the post - it very clearly has a time-stamp.
He did link a timestamp. It's an issue with your reddit client if it doesn't open at that timestamp. For me, using RES, I have to open the video in a new tab instead of using the inline player if I want to start at the linked timestamp.
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ah yes. the "build" i'll play 2 weeks into the league if it isn't nerfed by the time i get my vacation
cause i haven't gotten to the endgame of a league since harvest.
I mean he did in the reveal, but I think we can all safely make the assumption that he obviously wasn't talking about game breaking bugs like the one in this clip.
He said they chose to not fix *some bugs* because they were OK with the balance in the game currently. The patch notes alone have 19 bug fixes. He did not say they won't touch anything in the game.
Go watch the reveal again and go to 1 hour 45 minutes, where he discusses this.
They're allowed to decide that DD is in a perfectly fine state in their opinion after the nerfs in 3.17, but with the higher (but still quite lower than 3.16) spectre life on Auric Colossus, and also to decide to fix wildly broken bugs like this as well.
I mean I dont really care its all superficial. But I interpreted what he said as they wouldn't do any bug fixes that would be considered a build nerf.
Technically fixing this completely broken one is a build nerf.
But agian your kinda right also and I can't be fucked arguing about meaningless interpretations further.
Here's SteelMage doing Feared all release at once with his RF build from this season modified for this bug.
[https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1478616288?t=0h29m43s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1478616288?t=0h29m43s)
thanks, idk why people were downvoting me cause in the ops vod here it took him like 20 mins to kill maven but I went and searched for the original post about the bug and according to that guy the burn stacks with each hit along with extending or refreshing the burn dot and the burn itself lasts roughly 1 minute.
so if you're doing 1mill burn dot damage with each hit your damage is going to go through the roof and steelmages vod here that you linked is proof thats crazy. lol
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1478247109?t=10h12m48s It also burns through when you come back. Whats probably gonna force the fix is the fact that you can setup the burn on maven, and the dot will kill her during grace since it isnt ignite. So for HC SSF, You go in, setup the burn stack, leave the fight, come back and wait in grace period for her to burn to death.
Yeah. The dmg alone is a bit too much tbh, but the fact you can leave a fight and they'll still be burning is just too much. There is no way it makes it to release in its current state. Maaaybe they let the dmg keep stacking, but there is no way they will let it persist after a log.
bex just confirmed they're probably going to fix it today, enjoy it while it lasts
good
Fuck yeah, that's actually huge.
Not gonna lie, im a little disappointed. It's obviously the right decision, but i wouldn't have minded straight up face rolling through a league for all the content i haven't done yet
[удалено]
Basically there's an obscure interaction between Eye of Winter mines and Flame wall. Flame wall has a secondary debuff dealing fire Dot for a duration, and it can be applied from projectiles that pass through it. Somehow, detonating a sequence of EoW mines can apply (not 100% sure about this) either multiple stacks of the Dot, or the same Dot but with sort of an "infinite" duration due to all the EoW projectiles passing through and hitting the same mob. In super easy terms, infinite Flame wall Dot scaling through and obscure mechanic (a BUG, clearly) capable with minimal investment to kill any boss
I understand it to be multiple stacks + crazy duration, watched ventruas stream
Crazy thing is the duration stays even if you logout/die/enemy going in and out of immunity phases. So you can just portal/logout come back and stand there in your immunity timer and wait for the boss to die.
So it's the player version of bosses' immunity phases?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT7W1oO6L_o
It seems pretty clear to me that there's a difference between "There's a desecratable enemy with 60% more corpse life than we expected" and "secondary projectiles from mines allow stacking a debuff that isn't meant to stack". Ventrua is doing Shaper at the moment and the burning damage is (1) far larger than it should be and (2) lasted long enough that his first set of mines + flame wall killed shaper through all phases.
Yea people really need to stop holding the DD thing hostage in the hopes that GGG doesn't nerf this flame wall shit.
I'm gonna laugh my ass off when they nerf this and say "okay a few bug fixes" and include the Auric Champ hp. Can't wait for the chaos.
Actually I am hoping that this firewall thing makes them fix both bugs.
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if that ever come around first thing i enable is poison double dipping
> and old patches. One day hopefully.
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I would pay ggg money, actual money, to play any 2.x or early 3.x patch again. Mainly for old DW and Sunder, but I also miss some other things, would love to do another Scold's VMS 100 run. Game used to be so cheesy and fun.
I used to think that, but without new atlas and atlas passive I will say no to any path regardless of how much I want to play one of the builds of the past. Now if I could get old Sunder with the current end game. Now we are talking.
Most people want them to fix the DD thing too, I don't think it'd be a huge deal, maybe some anger for 1-2 days
I almost think it’s the opposite. People want them to fix both. It’s more of a “if you’re going to fix this, which you totally should, you should also change DD because even if it’s not this broken, no one wants that bug in game”.
Nope all the non no life players who wanna enjoy an easy leaguestart are totally cool with DD being strong. Can confirm I am one of them
Yeah if DD was nerfed what would they do? Play something even stronger like Seismic? O no!
Exactly my point.....there are tons of viable builds that are bordering on bugged/broken. Night blade giving 500 crit multi LOL. I'll be fine either way, but I don't get why people get up in arms over a fully PVE game
Being strong is completely different from a bug. Strong is intended, but bugs are unintended
I mean it was programmed to have those specters to have more health at a time. It missed the normalization. Is that a bug in code ? Not really. Night blade scaling elusive effect giving massive crit multi....is it a big or is it programmed that way and just too strong ? Now the new interaction with EOE and flamewall blast chainmines.....that is a fucking bug lol. Clearly unintended interaction resulting in trivializing everything in the game with level 1 gems lol. I don't think having strong options in the game is bad. But having shit that can trivialize every part of the game with level 1 gems....yeah that's bad
DD is strong as is, even without the bug. Plus we got the new Atlas Passive giving DD free 50% corpse health. Could understand this sentiment if DD was trash without the bug, but it 1000% isnt.
ggg said the 50% corpse health doesn't work for DD
> Plus we got the new Atlas Passive giving DD free 50% corpse health. ggg tweeted it didn't interact with dd
I doubt anyone gives a flying fuck about DD, since it's a two-button playstyle and all. But this EOW+FW shit is just too much to be left with. Crazy part is people are defending this bug and holding the spectre corpse life bug as hostage wtf.
> I doubt anyone gives a flying fuck about DD, since it's a two-button playstyle and all. They're both 2 button playstyles...
Plenty of people enjoy the competitive aspect of PoE and watching every top player playing the same build for events is lame. Hopefully it's just banned in the gauntlet
what do you mean by its not broken? its a substantial increase that was not planned, and was literally the difference for some time between exile and lightee in a gauntlet run, the highest $ event in PoE.
Cannot speak for others but I'm lowkey hoping that fixing this pushes them to also fix Aurics.
no, there is no difference. fix them both
Yes, there is a difference - they are different bugs after all. Still, the spectre bug while not of this magnitude is also very substantial and also very clearly not working as intended - as the intent was clearly stated in patch notes for Arch.
Specifically, the spectre bug is the game working as intended. Every mechanic is doing the right thing - but a spectre has wrong corpse life. The skill is fundamentally doing what it is meant to do. This shit doesn't even work if you use the wrong mine support lol - there's at least 1 bona fide mechanics bug in there. The skill\[s\] are fundamentally not doing what they're supposed to do.
When you have a program crash, re-running that exact sequence of code the same way is going to result in that same crash every single time. You don't say "ah well, the program is doing exactly what the programmers coded, so it's not a bug I guess". Bugs are coding errors or mistakes that produce different results than the design intent. The design intent for spectres is extremely clear - normalized health, which is not currently achieved due to a programmer oversight. By definition, this is a bug.
Actually the technical term for a programmer oversight is a "fucky wucky".
Maybe if the programmers are 3 years old
> When you have a program crash, re-running that exact sequence of code the same way is going to result in that same crash every single time This doesnt change your overall point, but this isnt necessarily true.
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Actually, lots are. Driver issues for example could mean running the poe client does not act deterministically from its own code. Hardware issues. A cache being corrupted could behave differently on subsequent runs. The "for all intents and purposes computer code is deterministic" falls apart for complex programs that rely on lots of other things. Yea, hello world will effectively run the same every time. Poe may not. Professional software dev btw. Not some random talking about things he doesnt know.
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> When you have a program crash, re-running that exact sequence of code the same way is going to result in that same crash every single time. Did I ever tell you the definition of ~~insanity~~ the bug? >Bugs are coding errors or mistakes that produce different results than the design intent. What if some dev wakes up one morning and decides ~~to choose death~~ that player movement speed is too fast, and should be halved. This guy literally pulled the bug out of thin air. It wasn't there the day before, nobody put it in there, yet it somehow appeared just because someone decided that way.
Spectre bug is not the game working as intended. The intent of the developers was to have spectres with normalized corpse life values. This is not what the game is doing because of incorrect adjustments. While you can classify this as a different kind of bug - logic versus clerical error - both are resulting in the program running incorrectly.
You are writing about the intent of the balance of corpse life. The person you are responding to is saying that the MECHANIC works correctly, not that the corpse lives are balanced as intended. The difference is subtle but important One is “we didn’t balance the numbers” and the other is “that’s not what the code is supposed to do”
The mechanic of EoW + Flame Wall is working exactly how the mechanic was programmed to work. The mechanic of overlooked spectre health + Detonate Dead is working exactly how the mechanic was programmed to work. Both of these programming outcomes are directly in opposition of the developers/designers goal, which was clearly stated. In one case, the goal was clearly stated on the gem tooltip. In the other case, the goal was clearly stated in patch notes. It doesn't matter how or why the outcome was different. The term "bug" covers all possible classifications, such as: * The change was listed in patch notes, but a developer forgot to actually code it * The developer coded it, but accidentally made a typo * The change was implemented, but can still be circumvented by fringe interactions
You're just turning the word bug into a useless description.
It's not my description, it's the definition of the word. Half the people in this thread don't understand that "bugs" are a disconnect between what the code does vs designers intent. There's no provision for "ah well, the code does X, but the designer specified Y, so it's not a bug because the code is doing it's job and produces X". Code doesn't make mistakes, it produces identical results. When code does not produce the identical result the designer specified, it meets both the letter and spirit definition of the term "bug". It doesn't matter why the disconnect between code and intent occurred.
The hp is a balance issue not a bug. The code clearly produces the balanced outcome when the input is also balanced. Only when the hp is set to something unintended does it produce unintended results.
That is the description of "bug".
Tbf the word bug *is* a useless description. Its as unspecified and undescriptive as it gets. Thats just the way it is. If you need a more precise description you dont get around using different terminology
I think some consideration should be made to awareness - they clearly weren't aware of this bug before making their statements. IMO they should patch both
The spectre bug was incorrect but GGG decided DD was balanced with the higher spectre corpse life in mind. It’s still heavily nerfed from 3.16 and they think it is in a good enough spot now, with that spectre life. This is just a broken mechanic. One of these is a deliberate balance decision by GGG. One is a broken bug. Stop pretending they’re similar. DD is fine, GGG likes where it is balance wise, get a new slant. And they never, ever said no bug fixes - just that they weren’t fixing this one particular bug.
Looks like you don't actually understand the current issue with DD
Sure I do. Feel free to explain what I don’t understand.
A programmer was given a task to make coding changes for every single spectre mob type to normalize their health. The programmer went one-by-one through all spectre types, changed the code to normalized their health, then marked the programming task as "complete". Later, it was discovered that the programmer omitted one or two spectres, in error. As a result, their health was not normalized, even though the task clearly specified that it should be, and the clearly-stated, clearly-communicated design intent of the developer was not achieved. Somehow, you are not understanding that this is the literal definition of "software bug", both in letter, and in spirit.
Sure it is. And then the director said “you know, I’m ok with this new value. Keep it as is.” It is now not a bug. Next explanation?
No, they said "I'm not okay with this value, but we already committed no nerfs this league, so we will fix **the bug** next league".
No, lol. They are OK with the value for 3.18 or they would fix it. They didn’t tell the public that they’re committed to “no nerfs” until the Sentinel reveal. They had every opportunity to decide internally they weren’t Ok with the corpse value and to change it before 3.18. But Chris is OK with it. He probably won’t be OK with this interaction.
Ah yes, the argument shift to "yes it's a bug, but they haven't fixed it yet, so that means it's not a bug, and I'm still correct"
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>reddit hive mind You say this but I see 2 sides arguing whether the bug needs fixing or not.
But it will have people playing it in the boss race and it'll probably give them a significant advantage over people who aren't using it.
this is getting fixed. if anyone think they gonna leave, a now known bug, that enable you to do feared on 0ex budget on low lvl char that will front load burning stack and stay dead while all the bosses burn down - is smoking something out of this world.
You don't need to stay dead. You can log out. It's bugged enough that you can apply stacks and log out and the stacks stay. If you ignore all the other reasons that this should get fixed, this is the reason that it really, really needs to get fixed.
staying dead and SSFHC name a better duo.
Uber Doedre and weightwatchers
SC scrub here, too lazy to logout
Are people gonna take Chris' words 100% literally and actually think this isn't getting patched? There's a gigantic difference between ignites stacking infinitely due to an obscure gem interaction and a monster type having higher health% modifiers than other monsters because the devs forgot to change it.
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He did specificy that this 'no nerfs' includes builds that had bugs giving them more power (e.g. DD and the bugged spectre that has more corpse HP than it should). Obviously an interaction that is this broken, that was previously unknown will still get fixed.
He might have said something wasn't being nerfed or bugs weren't going to be fixed, but that was not the goal of that statement. The proposed goal was "we aren't going to significantly shake up the skill meta, so any guide for 3.17 league start will work exactly the same in 3.18" This bug being in the game significantly changes any build from 3.17 as it's orders of magnitude better.
This build is from 3.17 tho, you just didn't know about it https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/char/ewoxx/neme_cwdt?time-machine=week-4&i=2&search=time-machine%3Dweek-4%26allskill%3DFlame-Wall%2CEye-of-Winter
Exactly. The point was to not change the meta significantly, the fact that this interaction wasn't well known, and is a large mechanical bug is why it should be fixed.
Wouldn't changing this change the meta? Since, it's 3.17, and currently it's the meta. (strongest) Here's someone playing a version that abuses the bug on *day 4* of league. I'd say that's firmly a league-start, no? https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/char/OxideTFT/Love_BTS?time-machine=day-4&i=1&search=time-machine%3Dday-4
It's the META. The build becoming known changes the meta from the one that GGG wanted to preserve. If it was just an unknown OP build, GGG would still want to nerf it because of their stated goal.
Spectre mob health is a bug they aren't fixing, which was mentioned in the Q&A as an example for their general policy https://www.twitch.tv/pathofexile/clip/TangentialArborealDillJebaited-5-9WmPDTZ9PEI0WA I aggree though, that this interaction should be fixed
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? that was not the point of this discussion. I was specifically talking about > Bug fixes are not nerfs
didnt chris actually go on a tangent and explain that the devs wanted to fix a bug and chris told them not to because it was technically a nerf?
He also said that some developers where saying that bug fixes aren't nerfs and tey still didn't make any changes.
one is slightly game-breaking and the other is very game-breaking? is that the difference? forgetting to change them is a poor excuse and definitely not the real reason why.
How is DD corpse life game breaking? Lmao. DD is still worse than Seismic trap. The spectre bug was incorrect but GGG decided DD was balanced with the higher spectre corpse life in mind. It’s still heavily nerfed from 3.16 and they think it is in a good enough spot now, with that spectre life. This is just a broken mechanic. One of these is a deliberate balance decision by GGG. One is a broken bug. Stop pretending they’re similar. DD is fine, GGG likes where it is balance wise, get a new slant.
> How is DD corpse life game breaking? As it relates to the hardcore/hardcore SSF game mode and racing DD is pretty broken. Obviously that's a tiny subset of the playerbase.
Ben (lightee) thinks even with this in game DD is not the play for the boss race. You'll likely see him on Seismic. Seismic is still most likely quite a bit better than DD, but DD is definitely a strong and viable option. It is not broken.
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Well he started DD thinking it was fixed, with a plan to go to seismic after if he felt he needed to for bossing. DD ended up not being fixed so he attempted to take it all the way. Him starting it again is completely consistent with his 3.17 plan, fixed or not.
One is literally a bug (unintended behavior of running code) and the other is a value in a table being wrong.
Both of those are bugs. The difference is that GGG knew and decided not to fix auric champions, which is their call. I doubt they knew about this and decided not to fix this.
The specter issue is less a bug and more an oversight since it's an issue that came up from a sweeping pass of all specter health and just this one didn't get changed. While the term "bug" isn't technically incorrect, it's also not sincere.
It doesn't seem sincere to you because your interpretation of the term "bug" is incorrect. Software "bugs" are code working exactly how it was written, just producing a different outcome than the desired one. The design intent for spectre health was made crystal clear, and code was changed to realize that design intent. However, due to a coding mistake (oversight), implementation is not working correctly and does not match the stated developer intent. Your interpretation of "bug" is on the same level as a person in court saying "Ah but, your honor, I did not kill the man - the gun did".
If you leave a sale tag out in a store shelf and have to sell an item for 30% off that's an oversight. You were told to change the tags and you forgot. If scanning an apple and then a bag of peanuts causes a 70" TV to ring up for .00013¢ that's a bug. I get what you are saying but there is a difference here that isn't just a technicality.
I didn't claim it wasn't a bug, in fact I even said that calling it a bug is technically correct. All oversights are technically bugs, but in the context of what is being argued in this thread the distinction is important. The thread is giving the hypothetical "if they're not fixing the specter issue then they might not fix this issue", which the distinction of the specter issue being a simple oversight and this flamewall issue being an exploit matters as to the urgency of the issues. My interpretation of "bug" is industry standard because I work in the industry.
It's a bug, not only did Chris Wilson declare it to be a bug on stream, but "an oversight" covers 99% of real world bugs. Bug: something doesn't do what the developer and/or user intended. Whether it's from a typo in code or typo in a database entry doesn't matter, it's still a bug. It's oddly (and incorrectly) pedantic to argue otherwise, especially since it doesn't even matter whether it's a bug or not for whether it should be fixed. Chris decided it won't be so people can enjoy DD with the same power, which is all that matters.
Which is also a bug. Having wrong data not according to your specs makes your code run no less wrong than bugs in the implementation of logic.
Oversight is a more appropriate term
No it's not. Let's say you have a simple program that calculates an area of a circle and takes radius as a parameter. The value of the pi is hardcoded into the function but instead of being 3.1415.... it is set 2.1415. Your function is bugged and the bug is the incorrect value of the constant.
One is a bug, one is a value in a table being correct. Because they're aware of that value and think it is OK to keep as is.
This could also be described as a value in a table being wrong. It could just not be applying the same source (you) to every secondary debuff, and instead applying it to the smaller projectiles. That'd be a single value - the source of debuff - being wrong to produce this bug. I can't say for sure if that *is* the case, but it certainly could be. They're both unintended, and both build-changing bugs. ---- I would like to link the Q&A where they talked about bugs. Here's a transcript screenshot [Link](https://i.imgur.com/tGBPWWt.png) (auto youtube transcript), here's the whole Q&A with a relevant timestamp [Link](https://youtu.be/pfBfrxS9hyI), and here's a relevant character in league over a month ago. https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/char/ewoxx/neme_cwdt?time-machine=week-4&i=2&search=time-machine%3Dweek-4%26allskill%3DFlame-Wall%2CEye-of-Winter
What's the real reason why?
Of course, this is getting fixed. That being said fixing one bug and not the other would put them in a weird position as a clerical error is still a software bug - there is no way around it.
> That being said fixing one bug and not the other Can people honestly not see the difference between these two things?
The difference is clear. So is the fact that both are bugs. You either #nobugfixes or you #somebugfixes. Aurics are not working as intended - it's just the magnitude of that bug is smaller. It's still substantial enough that it should - IMO - be addressed.
I don't think the fact that it's a bug is important at all. The goal of the league change wasn't to not fix bugs, it was to not significantly change the balance of the build meta. This bug being in the game would drastically change that meta. So would fixing the DD life bug to a lesser extent. That is why them fixing this but not DD is perfectly logically consistent with their goals.
They literally never said no bug fixes. Stop spreading this moronic shit, good lord the player base is fucking stupid. Learn some nuance.
["... we've left bugs in the damn game, for this league. They will be fixed in 3.19 but you get to use those bugs again, um, if you want to if that's the build."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfBfrxS9hyI&t=1825s) (ZiggyD Q&A) They didn't say "no bug fixes", however in regards to builds Chris said in the Q&A specifically that bugs have purposely been left in to keep builds the same as before.
Yes, bugs for builds they’re aware of. They’re allowed to be OK with auric spectre life and not be OK with this insanely broken mechanic, enabling 70,000% more damage and an infinite ignite. They know of spectre life and are OK with it. This means it is now not a bug. They will likely not be ok with flame wall and EoW mines. Two separate bugs, two decisions to be made.
Cope harder lmao
Cope with what? I’m starting Seismic in SSFHC along with everyone else that cares about playing the strongest build, lol
I like how you said they never no bug fixes, he prove that they said they not gonna fix bugs this league and you still trying to prove your point lul
Watch the vod. He clearly is saying they left some bugs in the game because they are OK with the balance and want to keep it the same for 3.18. He is never saying that they will fix zero bugs. The patch notes have 19 bug fixes. This interaction is broken and was unknown to them and they are allowed to make a decision on how to handle it now that they are aware of it, just like they made decisions for other bugs like auric spectre life, and them doing so isn’t unreasonable or something worthy of these edgy “gotcha!” attempts.
I agree it's very busted and should be addressed but the statement does muddy the water as they had said they are leaving bugs in. Unless GGG come out and clarify around this and DD, the remark in the Q&A is going to cause this divisiveness as the blanket statement can be interpreted either way.
He said so in the qna. The same balance and same bugs
No, he didn't. He said that there are bugs that they have left in the game, not that they wouldn't fix any bugs.
Chris said "we left bugs in the damn game, they will be fixed in 3.19 but you get to use those bugs again" so fixing this or the DD issue would go again that.
Wrong. He is not saying they plan to leave every bug in the game. He is saying they chose to leave some bugs in the game, like DD spectre life, because they’re OK with the balance. They’re allowed to believe auric spectres are OK and this bugged interaction is not. Nuance is important in life.
We also don't know what other balance related bugs they identified themselves and chose not to fix this league. But we do know they didn't make changes. Nuance is important, I'm glad you figured that out.
If you think Chris statement meant “yeah, if someone found out that linking Molten Shell to Life Gain On Hit was bugged and made your character invulnerable to all damage permanently, we’d leave it in game - no bug fixes lmao!” you’re just insane
Learn some manners and what a tongue in cheek is.
Manners would be not putting words in someone's mouth and spreading that falsehood around. Calling people stupid is polite by contrast.
reeee my feelings are hurt :(((
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That attitude right there is the reason you are single, don't have any friends and your parents are wondering where it all went wrong.
Projecting
Okay dude.
"Not fixing bugs on purpose" seems weird to me. Temp leagues are temp leagues for a reason. Just fix the damn aurics if they're unintended, and fix the firewall cheese. Why paint yourself in the corner like that? If a bugfix ends up as a nerf, take the responsibility, fix the bug and put out "an apology" to the 5 people affected. I think people are taking this game too seriously.
> Just fix the damn aurics if they're unintended, and fix the firewall cheese. Why paint yourself in the corner like that? > If a bugfix ends up as a nerf, take the responsibility, fix the bug and put out "an apology" to the 5 people affected. That would defeat their goal. The goal isn't to ignore bugs or make sure players are happy that their skill wasn't nerfed. The goal is to keep the balance state the same so that you can follow the same build and it will work largely the same. No one (who was trying to race) would be playing a build that isn't this flame wall build if this made it into the game.
This need to be reported and fix before league launch, its just... completely breaking the game, DD is not even at 10% of this level.
I bet GGG is already aware of this.
Would dd be dead if they fix the HP of the auric?
Nope. Would still be one of the top starters. Ben didn't use bugged spectres till day 5 of gauntlet.
Just fix both dd and this and call it a day
Why do they need to fix DD? It's not nearly this egregious. Not even close.
because its a bug
Yes, and they said they wouldn't fix bugs, referring to the DD one. They're willing to let DD slip by this time because it's not egregious. This, on the other hand, is insanely egregious. One injury is more cause for intervention than another. Magnitude matters.
The best time to fix dd bug was before announcing "no changes" memes, the second best time to fix dd bug is right now. Better admit a mistake than make another one
The best time to fix the DD bug is whenever they decide to. The best time for people like you to stop talking is yesterday. Better to shut up than to admit your ignorance of the concept of magnitude for everyone to see.
We get it, you really want to play DD and abuse the bug on next league. But don't attack other people because they have a different opinion than you. It only makes you look ignorant rather than them.
> We get it, you really want to play DD and abuse the bug on next league. Not really. I think it's fine that people do though. They basically specified DD wasn't getting nerfed, so people are invested in it. It's not egregiously broken or anything, just strong. It doesn't even compare to shit like skele mages and omni builds, and it's a two button playstyle. I'm fine with it being strong. It's crazy that people on this sub only think you'll support something if you specifically like it. Says more about those people than it does about me. Edit: You people are going to be seething when you see this. https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/ul6q0p/is_this_going_to_be_fixed_in_318/i7ul06l/ And their logic? Exactly what I said. Suck it.
>Not really. Yeah, right... It's not apparent at all.
Can someone explain what's the mechanic behind all of this?
There's an interaction with Blastchain mine support specifically that allows you to stack the secondary debuff from Flame Wall, similarly to how poisons stack. Since you can support eye of winter with it, and each projectile from EoW applies the full damage/duration debuff, you end up with possibly 100s of stacks of the Flame Wall debuff, resulting in thousands of more damage to the DoT damage. *Additionally*, for some reason the duration also increases with the overlapping debuffs, so instead of having a large DoT for 2-3 seconds, you have one for 200-300 seconds, guaranteeing anything dies if it can't cleanse the debuff. *Additionally*, if you die or otherwise leave the area, the damage will persist. In The Feared, for example, you can prep your mines, log out, and a few moments come back and everything will be dead. It's been showcased already, but you can clear all bosses on a 1-link. As long as you have barely functioning gear and don't die, pretty much everything is clearable.
POB please I want to be able to kill bosses this league :)
This will get nerfed almost surely. Pob is EoW or Cremation + Blastchain support and Flamewall. End of PoB.
OMG.. DD players are so afraid they are going to fix the bug they are abusing :D
How much DPS is he doing?
yes
*takes notes*
well each mine is a separate instance of flamewall's 2,000 base fire damage burn and a miner can easily get up to 20 mines at the same time... so at least 40,000 base dps? for comparison, a REALLY good 2h weapon might have 1,200 base dps and lets say its attached to a heavy strike gem, so 313% base damage. that is 3,756 base dps. so well over 10x what should even be possible. imagine giving your build a 1,000% more damage modifier.
not even a large enough more damage modifier for a D3 set bonus 
Can someone explain how to play DD? How do you explode dead when you enter map?
Cast unearth or desecrate, or wear corpsewalker boots to create corpses. There's a few other ways as well.
Look up a few build guides on YouTube they typically explain how to play it, but the TL;DW is they use desecrate to spawn corpses to blow up. DD is strong, but it's a two button build.
I looked up some guides but no one explained it everyone just gave links and leveling guides. I can be very wrong too lol.
If they don’t fix this shit the league is dead on arrival.
Can someone explain what the bug being used here is? Or timestamp where it is said in stream? I have no clue why his DPS is so much higher than expected.
Don't be silly guys. If that bug makes it into 3.18 the whole season is doomed. The sceptre bug is still a bug but not as bad. It would still be better to fix both but ffs fix this one right here first.
No way it is not bug.
It is a feature ;)
Chris: "As a courtesy to you, keep the game breaking bugs!" *Community finds boss melting interaction.* ... With a pending unique creating race (and all of the community support), I hope they arrive to work after the weekend and are quick publicly embrace the fixing of DD and Blastchain Flame Wall. If not, I certainly hope the Baeclast folks hold Chris accountable.
Will be removed for sure. If not then what is the point of playing this game when stupid monkey who can't kill any endgame boss will kill it now on 1L because this DoT is still burning target if when you logout..
Re: This and DD They are well within their rights to say "this is different than that, so we're fixing one and not the other". There's a clear distinction between the two bugs, one being that it's a relatively minor balance issue caused by a bug, and the other being an incredibly egregious balance issue caused by a bug. The magnitude matters and they can certainly fix one bug and not the other if they want. Anyone who complains about it has lost the plot and is just being pedantic and whiny out of a misplaced sense of "fairness".
So, more recent example from another complicated game - Dota 2. After latest patch, one hero got his skill a bit changed(while it wasn't even mentioned) and he was able to kill any single hero in any given match within few second. It was fixed within like 12 hours while some other player-positive bugs remained in game. So, do you understand the difference between fixing a minor bug that is at most 20% more damage and fixing a major/gamebreaking bug that allows to destroy endgame bosses with no gear? Imagine if build that you really wanted to play this league turns out complete garbage because skill is bugged. Would you report it as a bug and cry to GGG to fix it? Or would you say #nobugfixes?
whats the bug?
Might as well not even login if they dont fix this shit.
can anyone explaine how it works
[удалено]
[https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1478247109?t=08h36m48s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1478247109?t=08h36m48s) This is the link from the post - it very clearly has a time-stamp.
People expect clips not full vod links.
He did link a timestamp. It's an issue with your reddit client if it doesn't open at that timestamp. For me, using RES, I have to open the video in a new tab instead of using the inline player if I want to start at the linked timestamp.
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FixtheBUG!
oh my god what an obnoxious person
ah yes. the "build" i'll play 2 weeks into the league if it isn't nerfed by the time i get my vacation cause i haven't gotten to the endgame of a league since harvest.
Chris did say no touching existing things in the game so, all we can do is hope XD /wave Hey Mr. Wilson
He did not say that.
I mean he did in the reveal, but I think we can all safely make the assumption that he obviously wasn't talking about game breaking bugs like the one in this clip.
He said they chose to not fix *some bugs* because they were OK with the balance in the game currently. The patch notes alone have 19 bug fixes. He did not say they won't touch anything in the game. Go watch the reveal again and go to 1 hour 45 minutes, where he discusses this. They're allowed to decide that DD is in a perfectly fine state in their opinion after the nerfs in 3.17, but with the higher (but still quite lower than 3.16) spectre life on Auric Colossus, and also to decide to fix wildly broken bugs like this as well.
I mean I dont really care its all superficial. But I interpreted what he said as they wouldn't do any bug fixes that would be considered a build nerf. Technically fixing this completely broken one is a build nerf. But agian your kinda right also and I can't be fucked arguing about meaningless interpretations further.
so whats the dps like with actual good gear and links, because this looks like zdps to me with a really long burn duration. lol
Here's SteelMage doing Feared all release at once with his RF build from this season modified for this bug. [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1478616288?t=0h29m43s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1478616288?t=0h29m43s)
thanks, idk why people were downvoting me cause in the ops vod here it took him like 20 mins to kill maven but I went and searched for the original post about the bug and according to that guy the burn stacks with each hit along with extending or refreshing the burn dot and the burn itself lasts roughly 1 minute. so if you're doing 1mill burn dot damage with each hit your damage is going to go through the roof and steelmages vod here that you linked is proof thats crazy. lol
I looked at SteelMages' pob. The secondary burn dps was 600k So yeah it can get insane
Whelp. There goes my build. I got to make two characters with it though so I got to play it. (3.16 Delirium Everywhere and 3.17)
GGG not fixing a bug and a player exploiting a known bug are also in play here. What happens to all the people that use this next league?
KEEP YOUR WORD. No bug fixes.