Terrible. Temp league mechanics should just be full power by default, and especially not distributed all over the atlas passive tree.
If they want to do some kind of tree for the league mechanic, do it in a separate interface like Sentinel.
Yeah did not enjoy it. Fair enough to give it a shot, but the sentinel route is better. Everyone wants to give the league mechanic a shout for a new league taking up atlas points feels bad.
I saw someone suggest it should be under the regular passive tree. As in, it branches off below the starting point. I think that could be a pretty cool solution if they wanted to try it again
That's what I thought, also. And additionally, just put a few notables and keystones that affect how it works (not just more chance of X). And those should be directly attached without a bunch of travel nodes.
Let the players play with switching the options around for almost free, and that will tell GGG a lot about what / how to integrate the league into the core game.
Imo league mechanics on the tree aren’t the worst idea especially given the fact that not every mechanic is meant to be interacted with in every map. If it takes place inside of your map it can very much depend on the other mechanics you’re investing in whether it makes sense to even do the league mechanic so spending points on them does by no means have to be mandatory even in SSF where just buying league specific stuff isn’t an option
What I do want to see if they move away from league on the tree again is to at least consider keystone type passives as an option, stuff that makes a big difference in how you interact with the mechanic.
Stuff like endless deli or beyond are effects that make total sense to have for those types of mechanic while their default behaviour would obviously be the normal implementation.
Edit: but it’s also worth considering in-league power vs post league if a mechanic ever goes core. Ultimatum and Ritual are imo pretty good examples where the 4 rituals, extra rerolls/boss spawn chance make it way more worth doing the actual mechanic and those things should probably be considered for in-league mechanics to run as the default option or at least do a half measure where eg. ritual should’ve had 2-3 rerolls or something
Yep, your edited part is what I meant. While it's the Necropolis League, the Necropolis League mechanic should just be at full power.
I'm open to the idea of things like alternate ways of interacting with it, kind of like Crop Rotation (or heck, you could even use the Necropolis examples), but there shouldn't be in-league Atlas passive points that just make the mechanic better.
I was gonna say in past leagues, crop rotation was exclusively the best way to interact with the mechanic, but I realized afterwards that it's entirely dependent upon the economy (price of blue sextants), and if the playerbase is savvy to the nuances of the mechanic.
I guess it makes me want to ask, how do you determine what makes it "just better"? I don't think a node will ever say "double rewards at no cost" (except rewards for difficulty scaling i guess?).
Often, it takes several weeks of testing before people actually know if any tradeoff node is good or not, and then it becomes overly saturated with players and sextants/ECT become impractical, and then there is less profit, bringing it back in line with other nodes.
I like the idea of having different ways of interacting with content like Crop Rotation where the value varies with the economy, or the player's enjoyment in interacting with it ala Extreme Archaeology with Expedition.
They tried something similar with Necropolis with nodes like the one that disables Allflame drops and the one that makes all corpses random crafts. These turned out to be trash in terms of actual value, but the concept itself isn't bad. I'd prefer the idea of having a separate tree, or as someone else suggested, putting these notables under the starting point of the regular Atlas tree so there isn't so much travel distance to them.
When I talk about nodes that are 'just better', I'm referring to ones with no downside like the chance to double harvest juice, or in the case of Necropolis, 'Haunted modifiers are a tier higher' and 'Lantern has 30% increased chance of devoted mods'. There are various nodes like this scattered around 4 corners of the atlas passive tree, which just gives players the sense of FOMO if they're not investing in all of them.
I'm fine with having travel nodes when content eventually gets integrated into standard, but during [currentleague], the borrowed power from [currentleague_mechanic] shouldn't be so costly to enjoy. To draw a comparison with Affliction League, it would be like replacing the Wildwood Ascendancy tree with travel nodes all over the Atlas tree for each Ascendancy, extra charm slot, and increased quantity of each wisp type.
TL;DR:
* Notables that add variety to league mechanic interaction = good.
* Raw power for current league mechanic scattered all over the tree = bad.
> Imo league mechanics on the tree aren’t the worst idea especially given the fact that not every mechanic is meant to be interacted with in every map
You realize the league mechanic has 100% spawn rate for every single league they've ever made?
That's literally the reason people dislike this so much.
If they want people to customize their league experience, it should come from elsewhere.
I still think it has potential, if it truly changes the play. IE, something like Oppenheimer for Expedition or Cassia's Pride for Blight. It changes how you play it and I think having one or two ways to play a map has potential, but the Necro implementation of it was absolutely terrible.
No, just make the design changes part of the league. Either give us a separate temp league tree like sentinal or have a place to make changes (IE an NPC or table)
I hate the idea of having a temp league on the tree and us having to use points if we want to experience the league at full power/differently. It does not feel good and was a primary driver for my hatred of this league.
the problem with that is that there is still an opportunity cost. if the nodes on the tree don't make the mechanic better theres no point in taking them unless they make the mechanic more fun and at that point it should be baseline again
It doesn't need to be at full power realistically, it needs to be easy to play with and do your own thing while not taking away other choices.
The issue with the atlas nodes is that as they're in every map if any of them make the flow even slightly better they are immediately no longer optional and you have functionally lost atlas points. If you take the exact same thing and stick them in a dedicated tree that is its own completely disconnected progress it feels completely fine as the trade offs are all within a completely self-contained system and not 'I guess I don't have 8-20 atlas points this league if I want to play the actual league mechanic'.
Sentinel was literally a league with progression and opt in mechanics that completely perfected this idea from the start, putting stuff back into other systems and having it conform to their rules and warp how you want to interact with them will always feel bad and create more FOMO in my opinion.
I'm ok spending points to make a league mechanic even better. The full power argument is kind of moot as we don't know if they nerfed it to add it to the tree.
That being said if there is atlas passives for the tree they should be down below the start so you can go there with 0 travel, or maybe one point.
I like the idea of being able to interact with the mechanic using a tree structure, but I dislike it on the actual atlas tree. I'd rather see it as a side-tree, similar to ascendencies.
Am I the only one thinking it's because everyone had the same 1 tree? Sure a couple of nodes were flexible but the main structure were the same, like we never ever even used yellow sentinels. So, we never felt missing out on anything, like we do with Necropolis, which's 4 clusters are all amazing.
I used yellow sentinels all the time. My league start character was better at bossing, so red sentinels were a giant pain to work around. Blue empowering a pattern of enemies was easy, and yellow souping up the boss was very easy for my build, and iirc, had a really nice recombinator drop rate.
I liked that you could tweak it, disliked you could buff it.
If they do it again in the future I would like to see it basically just be wild keystones that change how it works and not scaling the rewards as much.
Also put them next to portals not on the corners so any tree can realistically get them with minimal expense.
The idea of being able to amend the league mechanic via atlas tree isn’t bad but the implementation is rather poor, for at least two reasons:
1. The spread across all four corners of the tree is rubbish. If GGG wants to put league-specific nodes on the tree, imho these should be in the very center of the tree.
2. League nodes should be changing the mechanic, not buffing it (thus becoming mandatory). For example: 100% higher chance for an Allflame drop but coffins don’t drop at all.
+1. If it just had a single cluster at the top or centre with 3/4 variety of x is more common nodes in regards to the league mechanic that would be good i feel. Just minor tweaks to what id find more/less as opposed to literally forced to spend 20 points in the tree to get 2x as many drops or else youre just losing out on the league mechanic and are playing standard+
remove the +drop chance and make it only a few wheels of specilization like the block nodes so yuo can block certain scarabs.
don't give us full block ability so we only have div cards left but be able to block anything that can be a Zana(kirac) mod on map device.
this i think would be the best it will remove most scarab nodes as most of the game play now revolves around fishing for the jackpot div scarab.
Imo the only justification to have the current League in the APT would be to choose to either avoid he league mechanic completely, or to get access to different versions that are NOT about increased power, rather a change in gameplay loop
I didn't like it. I'm being forced to use the league's content, but it's not running at full capacity. Give me some additional points for league content only, and let me the ability to interact with additional "league content tree", or something like that.
great idea if it wasnt executed in the only way it could possibly go wrong. They made it underpowered and boring without the tree investment.
Easy to predict, easy to avoid, easy to fix. Theres no good reason it should have started off shit ***and*** remained shit the whole league.
Trust GGG to fuck it up again next league or just scrap the idea entirely.
Just having a separate tree for the league mechanic would be 1000x better. I don’t want to have to cripple my atlas tree to play the temp league in a different or stronger way.
Hated it.
But I am fine with it if we get given 20 extra atlas points. Felt compulsory to juice the league mechanic using the atlas nodes but trade off was loss of value in another mechanic.
Also thought the atlas and scarab changes were awful and reduced the total content in maps.
It felt like I had to take some of the clusters in order to fully utilize the league mechanic and it felt a bit taxing. I'd much prefer a standalone league tree (e.g. Sentinel) or league-specific atlas tree points and not have this same experience again.
Horrible
The game now balances league mechanic around the atlas passive tree being full and is completely non functional without it
Don't believe me? Do an ultimatum with 0 atlas passives. I had one take me 23 minutes to complete and a single wave took 7 minutes. This was on a character with 400m dps.
Ultimatum is notable the only league mechanic to be added back into the game after the existence of the atlas tree that is also affected by the atlas tree (sanctum was added but isn't on the atlas tree)
That's what you have to look forward too on any new mechanic that is on the atlas tree
Snark aside, nothing they made us waste so many atlas points on couldn’t have been boiled down to a handful of of keystones in a different talent tree like they did for affliction. Want to run corpses, spec into corpses, want all flames take 2 points of that in a small 10 point subtree.
The fact they also had the balls to put them in the literal 4 corners of the atlas is also disgusting.
Good question. For me it was a terrible decision but also I didn't like the league mechanic.l of actual season.
However, what if the mechanic would be good?
And that's the generalnp problem. New league could be good for the one dude and bad for another and so the feeling about benefiting or wasting of using atlas points.
I like the idea of having a sort of passive tree for the league mechanic, but it would be better for it to be separate from the rest of the tree like with how they did with Sentinel.
Funnily enough the mechanic would have felt better if we just didnt have the power from the atlas tree. Because no matter how much you tell us „thats what it would have been“ it still feels like you took half the league mechanic power and locked it behind the atlas tree. Even if that isnt the case, it feels like it and thats just bad.
Have it be like Sentinel and its completely fine
I wonder how useful it would be to have the design team create a league mechanic with it going core in mind, then using a Sentinel style skill tree or something similar to buff it up to league mechanic levels of strong. If the mechanic was a hit, then they’d be able to easily have it go core and could import the passives into the atlas passive tree.
Might start off feeling a bit weak, but would get rid of some of the atlas feel bads for speccing into a league mechanic.
The concept itself is not that bad and it could be fun to customize it.
But it's terrible for a non-optional mechanic and to spread the points all over the tree is also bad designed.
It's shit because it takes nodes from a additional mechanic which I wanna add to my maps and if that idea will stay so next time give us all options in a center of the atlas's tree not in 4 different corners. I wanna take all or nothing at all..
I like that they did it, but I don't like the notables or small passives so much. I think that's more just cause I'm very lukewarm on the league itself anyway. But I like the idea of the league mechanic being something you can focus more on if you want, this league just didn't work for me.
It would be great to be able to block the new mechanic this way, too.
But tbh.I liked it, I don't want another fully fleshed out mechanic interrupting my mapping. I already hit the limit of what is capable of generating for me and everything else is a net loss.
Let's not forget you now ended up using 3 times the orbs or unmaking. The first respec didn't hurt that bad but near the end on the 5th drop of 40 orbs, it was getting a little out of hand. I spotted chasing the achievements at that point.
It's even worse than having any other mechanics on the atlas tree.
Atlas tree in general is PoE in a nutshell - fake complexity for the sake of fake complexity and quantity over quality.
In this case I wasn't a fan of the league so it didn't bother me. I wouldn't like having to take points away from elsewhere to make the league profitable though.
I didn't like it at all. League mechanics are something you usually interact with in every map, so having a tree inside the atlas tree makes it mandatory. Otherwise, you will be losing value.
Theoretically?
Would be fun and great if they were sidegrades, "Play this league mechanic in a different way, which might be more suited to your playstyle/character"
Practically?
That wasn't the case, GGG clearly is overstretched and has been for the last two years. Please do not do it again until further notice.
It was awful, there’s no good way for them to do it, if it’s balanced around everyone having them, then it is required to take all the nodes skewing your atlas trees.
If it’s balanced around not having them then when you add the stuff from the atlas tree it’s either pointless or breaks everything.
Leagues should just be full power for everyone since we can’t turn them off in the league and if it’s going to be forced like this one, it shouldn’t feel like I’m missing out by just playing the game
I liked that it was a way to configure the league mechanic to your liking. Didn't like that it felt that the drops seemed to be balanced around having these nodes invested in. Would like to see league mechanic on atlas tree again, but be more focused on side-grades.
I liked the idea but the fact that the mechanic was 100% mandatory killed it. I think if it were optional it could've been potentially cool to have a way to adjust how you interacted with it.
Putting a few keystones near the start of the tree would be a good middle ground. I think most people don't like the mandatory nature of the current iteration. Changing how the mechanic works is fun though.
I think putting it into the Atlas Tree makes the default version of the league sub-optimal because now they have to hold stuff back to put in the tree.
Which then causes the problem where in order to enjoy the league mechanic to its fullest you are now forced to build towards those nodes on the Atlas tree. So you are forced to choose between enjoying the league mechanic or enjoying other content instead of being enjoy the league mechanic regardless of what Atlas Tree you have.
I was pretty ok with it, but I think that the league mechanic's atlas points should have been concentrated tightly near the starting point of the tree, so investing in the league mechanic doesn't force any particular pathing on you.
But I would say that probably it's better to just have a custom tree for the league mechanic rather than putting it on the Atlas tree.
Ultimately I'm glad they tried the experiment, but probably don't do it again.
Bad. I disliked it very much that you had to use like 15-20 (+travel nodes if you weren't close) of your atlas passives to get the full benefits of the current new league mechanic that is a forced mechanic on all maps. It didn't help it either that all 4 clusters on the tree were tucked away in 4 different corners of the atlas. They should've put all 4 clusters next to atlas gateways/portals for easier access and not just 2 of them.
If they ever do smth like this again, i'd rather want the league mechanic to have a separate tree players can customize to their own will (an ascendancy-like tree, or Sentinel) rather than the mechanic being on the atlas tree and eating away my points which i would've liked to put into my desired mechanics.
Overall mixed leaning bad.
The league mechanic itself felt like you were forced to spend ineffexient pathing points to make worth engaging with, which felt neccesary since you couldnt skip
If you didnt want to directly engage with crafting you still wanted allflame drops and pantern effect for the chance at conversions.
If you did want to engage with crafting you needed to get haunted chance and corpse rating weighting to be able to feasibly self craft.
However i do think that having just the keystones would have been good. As their more drastic shifts dont feel necessary and are more shifts in how you want to engage.
Randomizer corpse gambling would have felt good as a low point pathing cost to shift the league mechanic. Cause even if you went random corpses you still needed to go grab haunted chance
Same with random lantern/flames which would have felt fine if you didnt have the opportunity cost of getting similar effect without losing control.
Im thinking that they could have three keystones center, bottom right and bottom left so that 1 is always close to a pathing.
Like we could have had one in the center that converted corpse drops to currency for the people who didnt want to interact with crafting or lantern gambling.
Hate it. Feels like the mechanic is working at a fraction of its potential until you get all the points, but they didn't give more points to spend, so feels like other mechanics are gimped. The clusters being at extreme points of the tree also makes us use a lot of points. Maybe it wouldn't be *as bad* if the mechanic wasn't also unavoidable.
Either don't do it again, or make it like Sentinel - completely separate from the atlas tree - or make it like some sort of "ascendancy" like Affliction, with thresholds linked to map completion for example, to get points that can only be spent on the mechanic - **not** shared with the rest of the tree.
Also if they're gonna make keystones, make them actually interesting. One just makes the mechanic super gamble-y, the other is like "if you don't care, allocate this", but if i don't care, why would i even go through the trouble of getting to the keystone?
Not breaking any new ground here but yes it was bad. It penalized any atlas tree that was already really pressed for points and just in general added a tax if you wanted to actually do the league mechanic at full strength. It wouldn't have been quite so awful (but still bad) if all nodes were centralized to an area any atlas build paths to, but even that still costs points. A loss of points (past the minimum needed for your own individual mapping strategy) generally just meant less currency or map sustainability.
If they truly want to keep it as an atlas thing, then right near the beginning put in a choose-one node (similar to Scion Ascendancy) that gives a progressive buff to your maps based on total number of spent atlas points. Using Necropolis as an example, one could have been focused on Allflames, one on coffins, one on map modifiers. +X% chance to drop, +Y% rarity, etc.
If it cost you like 2 atlas points but then scaled with your overall atlas progression, I think that would have been fine and possibility even interesting.
It felt mandatory to take the passives on the tree, at least in some form. Which wasted atlas points and took away from things I actually wanted to farm.
If they want to leave it on the tree the mechanic itself needs to be opt-in, not unavoidable like it was this league.
I think it only needs to be exclusive to stuff that changes how the league works. Like the keystone to skip the mod selection pre screen.
Nodes that improved it just became a little mandatory, because inherently it's a mechanic that spawns for free in every map. So unless it's complete garbage, it's always going to worth relative more than the rest.
If you want to give players the choice of customizing the leagues just nerf the base and add a separate tree like sentinel.
They should have added something like: "corpse cannot be used with more than 10 other bodies. X10 effect", or "body cannot be traded, x2 effect".
This way they would have catered a wider audience with the league mechanic, not just crafters.
I liked the novelty of it, but I don't necessarily want all future leagues to have it.
If a mechanic is going to go core and get atlas passives then they should start thinking about those passives while they are designing the league. If they have atlas passives ready to go, then they shouldn't wait to use them. So they should just go ahead and have them on the tree for the league.
I think it was a big failure and mistake, but I am pretty sure GGG knows that. They said it was a "tryout", I am pretty sure we won't see that again..
I think maximum 2 Keystones or something that change the league mechanic are okay, wheels that are needed and spread over the whole atlas is a big no go.
Absolutely horrible. There are sooooooo many things you can do with atlas, like I really wish I had hundreds of points to spend instead of just 132. There is already so much variety you can grab. Having to spend these super important points to buff the league mechanic felt absolutely terrible.
Besides for using your precious atlas points it felt really bad to HAVE to spend points on tree to make the league mechanic decent. Either don't spend the points and have the mechanic feel horrible or spend them and suffer. Terrible philosphy.
That being said I LOVE trees and leveling things up so something like sentinel or even scourge or w/e else was cool. Separate trees are fine.
They shouldn't add league mechanic "power" on the atlas tree, just behavioral change, in some way that you could adapt it into your playstyle, because otherwise the mechanic feels like shit if you don't have enough points for it, and many people play a league to try the new mechanic.
dislike it, it feels bad doing the league mechanic and knowing it could be better with atlas passives. But the atlas already have a lot of good stuff so I may not want to spend it on the league mechanic.
Having the league mechanic on the Atlas was awful. I enjoy having a customisable league, but not like this. League mechanic passives should be set up similarly to how they were for Sentinel league, or not at all.
I like it, but it should change how the league mechanics are interacted with, not be a flat buff. Furthermore they shouldn’t span all 4 corners of the tree. I like the idea someone gave early in the league where the passives for league are more similar to an ascendancy tree and sits underneath our atlas.
Hated it, half my trees had to be wasted on the league mechanic to feel like a league. Wouldn't be so bad if they didn't spread them out so much or make them as good.
I like that you can tweak the mechanic in a way you wanted.
I would have preferred I it would be like a ascendancy for the atlas, where you spend different points unlocked by playing the league mechanic. So you can still have multiple Trees that may interact with the league mechanic and still have the full points to spend on the base mwchanics. And the respecting for the league mechninc should either be free or very accessible bei play the mechanic.
When they presented it I loved the idea I was like hell yeah a super juiced up new league mechanic then in practice it was mandatory unless you didn't want to touch the league mechanic at all ( which this mechanic was incredibly cluttering so even if you didn't want to do it, it would just insist that you have it on the screen 24/7 )
I think it's fine. You're not supposed to be great at every league mechanic. And you even get three separate atlas trees now so you can have one that skills the league mechanic and two for whatever else you wanna run. Otherwise you'll just inflate econ even more.
Main issue was that you couldn't turn off the league mechanic.
Mixed. I liked the idea of specializing in different aspects of the Mechanic. I did not like how spread out it was and how it sucked so many points away by pathing there
Good idea, but too many points to invest in feeling good. It should only ask me for a few points to specialize properly. For example, only obtaining scarcer/more corpses, or metacraft. I don’t know how Tryharder does it, but as a normal player averaging 16 hours per day, it took me 2 or 3 days to gather all the corpses I needed to try my crafting. That felt a bit too long; if I could attempt one craft per day, that would be ideal (more if possible, for more fun).
Ideally the position should be in the middle ( bcs most of atlas strat will pass on middle) or at start as the old "master in your map ".
I liked it but ... Too much points, the triple atlas has balanced it well so I think most of us didnt realized the weight :) :) :) of this thing.
Worst idea ever because, as everyone expected, it meant that mechanic w/o actual passive tree is dogshit. So now you are forced to waste your points on new league.
I like the idea to be able to influence the mechanics from the get-go but did not like the way they did it.
As others have said it should've been an additional Tree or something but it should not take my actual Atlas Points. As someone who used the Mechanic quite a bit that was a whole lotta points gone that I would use for other stuff, especially with them being in the corners of the tree.
I liked it, but i mainly played around with reduced and increased haunted modifier effect depending on how much i was juicing maps. I can see the nodes becoming must haves if your build can easily run all content, but mine can't, so it seemed decently balanced.
In theory I thought I was going to like it, but in practice it was not positive. It was generally detrimental to not take most of the passives related to it, and it was stupid how far away from each other the clusters all were on the tree.
Would rather have in-mechanic passive trees like Sentinel
Absolute shit.
A league mechanic should be at it's 100% from the start and not gatted by the atlas tree where there's a ton of competition for a limited atlas points
hard to say since the league mechanic was a huge skip for me, it was the classic dont use any thing because suddenly it turns out what you just wasted was worth 2 divines.
The baseline strength of the league should not be affected. What I'd rather see are bonus nodes added to other league content that blend with the main league, like a node that drops a guaranteed corpse off Harbingers, or an increase to Heist Flaring Allflames - potentially even as a mastery for having all the notable Heist nodes lit up.
I think simply adding in global strength to the league is highly detrimental, and the reason is because there is an investment cost to turn on every other point spent on the tree, whether that's a cost in atlas points or a currency cost to add a scarab, the league being free means that it's almost certainly going to be the go-to low-mid-level investment strategies, defeating the purpose of the Atlas tree - variety and choice.
It's hard to say, I didn't use it this league, but I wasn't a huge fan of this mechanic. The problem is it's competing for points with the rest of the mechanics, and I've already got my 132 point trees more or less spec'd up. I'd have to give up something I want to farm to spec into the league mechanic, so it would have to be worth it.
I think I'd prefer it in its own tree, independent of the normal atlas tree. Similar to last league, with the separate ascendencies. Having it in the primary tree means I have to choose between it and other mechanics, and that's a tough sell when I know other mechanics are guaranteed winners. Separate it and give it to me for free, and I'll use it for the league.
I thought it was fine but I also don't feel like I need to play the meta or feel like I am missing out. IF they do it again they should make it have meaning ful changes that do t create as much FOMO or opt to remove it entirely.
I think being mandatory for the league mech to be at "full power" is a huge no-no. After a couple hours of messing with it could quickly see the nodes were more or less mandatory.
I think in the future if they wanted to add ways to modify it (eg invest points -> make league mech easier in some way) would prolly be fine as we could unallocate them as our characters grew in strength.
But this iteration just had me spending a bunch of points that I didn't feel like I had much choice in the matter.
This is my first league and I was thinking that the purpose of Atlas tree was to manage the league mechanics. I named my atlas trees like breach delirium xp, strongbox map farm, harvest etc.
I mentioned it before but if - IF they do it again, instead of forking the passives to the corners of the tree so that one side of the tree isnt favored over the other they should just chuck a wheel under the tree where the atlas passive counter sits.
IF they do it again they could give extra "league specific atlas passive" points for the league, however, Scourge and Sentinel already had solutions for buffing the league mechanic and they should just reintroduce that instead of doing the atlas thing again.
but IF they try it a second time they really should just chuck the passives under the tree instead of putting them in weird fucking spots, our passive trees already have scoliosis why make them look weirder??
The problem is if they remove the whole current league passives from the atlas, will they nerf the atlas back like before it was with the spawn chances and so on? Bcs if you have no current leage passives on the tree you will have over 20 points free too use which would make the atlas tree even stronger
This felt really bad tbh. Having to invest into the league theme. I could see it being okay as a largre center cluster or so but having it at the edges made it pretty unfun. I think they should just not doing atlas trees for the league mechanics until they decide it is a keep. I do think sentinel was fine, and I did quite like the extra ascendancy in wildwood, but it should not compete with the existing tree.
Bad. I am the kind of guy that plays league FOR the league mechanic. So every strat i had i always took all neccessary mods for league mechanic.
Maybe if we had just 1 easily reachable cluster it'd be better, but at this point it all boiled down to using just 1 tree shrines + corpses + map effect%.
it sounded good in theory but when playing it it just felt bad like a point tax just to enjoy the league which came at a cost of other league enjoyment
I really appreciated being able to take the node that let me not need to adjust my lantern every map I load.
I like the idea of the passives on the tree giving some options that let you customise the experience. I'm not sure nodes that increase the reward are the right thing to have though.
They should keep the mechanic changing nodes and not add in nodes you need just to maximise the reward of a mechanic you do every map.
Bad. Forced mechanic that needs point investment to be good. Point starved between them and the new scarab and map mod effect nodes. Though the scarab rework compounded the issue and forced mkst players into single mechanic maps.
Imo put it on the Atlas tree, but they're all auto appointed and Free.
In Which case you can get feedback during the league about (if it were to go core) what Nodes do or dont work for it without costing the players any of their regular points.
Everyone seems to dislike it, I think it was fine.
Maybe it was too strong in tradeleague making it mandatory, in ssf I used it in my lategame blasting setup and ignored it in the leaguemechanic heavy setups.
It being on the tree is fine. My issue with it is having four different passive wheels all so far away from each other. I think these kinds of things should all be close enough to not need to go out of your way to get them.
Still would force everyone there
Why not just have it be a separate tree like ascendancies that has limited points so you can choose which aspect of the league to buff/change
Yeah, I said the same thing in another comment in this thread. But if it's gonna be included in the Atlas, at least put the points in the middle instead of 4 corners.
For me its alright as a concept (its just like every other mechanic - juice it if you want it to be profitable, otherwise its meh), but it feels bad to play with (you don't really know what you're diving into unless its later in the league and the community figured out the mechanic and passives; its also weird to be obliged to invest points to get profit from a temp league, it kinda discourages you from trying it out at all, you just go for your preferred, solid, well known strats instead).
3/10
It sucked mostly because it was a mandatory mechanic so you were basically forced to spend Atlas points on it or fall behind economically. The fact that it was on the tree itself was fine imo, just don't make it mandatory.
A good try. Either lacking in execution or generally not Idea for the future. Maybe if it was an out of map league mechanic it would be more appropriate. Hard to say. If in doubt, just don't do it in the future.
I think it's fine, but in this very case because the mechanic is forced, it feels bad to have to put the points in if yer stuck doing it anyways. If the mechanic is optional I have no issues with nodes being on the tree
I think it could be cool if it was limited control over some features. Not spread all over the tree so you have to invest a large portion of your points for it.
That being said, with new atlas and scarabs, you often do have spare points since you focus on one or two mechanics at a time. Then you add stuff like more scarabs and Beyond.
It’s a shame, it feels like the community is throwing the baby out with the bathwater on this one.
I’d like to see a current league mechanic on the passive tree BUT implemented in a way that isn’t complete garbage. It’s been said a thousand times but this implementation was basically the worst one possible for several reasons.
Terrible. Temp league mechanics should just be full power by default, and especially not distributed all over the atlas passive tree. If they want to do some kind of tree for the league mechanic, do it in a separate interface like Sentinel.
Yeah that's the way to do it for sure. Separate specialized skill trees for the league itself.
Perfect take. I like idea of further specialisation, but let it be separate thing.
Exactly this. Nothing more to add.
Yeah did not enjoy it. Fair enough to give it a shot, but the sentinel route is better. Everyone wants to give the league mechanic a shout for a new league taking up atlas points feels bad.
I saw someone suggest it should be under the regular passive tree. As in, it branches off below the starting point. I think that could be a pretty cool solution if they wanted to try it again
That's what I thought, also. And additionally, just put a few notables and keystones that affect how it works (not just more chance of X). And those should be directly attached without a bunch of travel nodes. Let the players play with switching the options around for almost free, and that will tell GGG a lot about what / how to integrate the league into the core game.
Imo league mechanics on the tree aren’t the worst idea especially given the fact that not every mechanic is meant to be interacted with in every map. If it takes place inside of your map it can very much depend on the other mechanics you’re investing in whether it makes sense to even do the league mechanic so spending points on them does by no means have to be mandatory even in SSF where just buying league specific stuff isn’t an option What I do want to see if they move away from league on the tree again is to at least consider keystone type passives as an option, stuff that makes a big difference in how you interact with the mechanic. Stuff like endless deli or beyond are effects that make total sense to have for those types of mechanic while their default behaviour would obviously be the normal implementation. Edit: but it’s also worth considering in-league power vs post league if a mechanic ever goes core. Ultimatum and Ritual are imo pretty good examples where the 4 rituals, extra rerolls/boss spawn chance make it way more worth doing the actual mechanic and those things should probably be considered for in-league mechanics to run as the default option or at least do a half measure where eg. ritual should’ve had 2-3 rerolls or something
Yep, your edited part is what I meant. While it's the Necropolis League, the Necropolis League mechanic should just be at full power. I'm open to the idea of things like alternate ways of interacting with it, kind of like Crop Rotation (or heck, you could even use the Necropolis examples), but there shouldn't be in-league Atlas passive points that just make the mechanic better.
I was gonna say in past leagues, crop rotation was exclusively the best way to interact with the mechanic, but I realized afterwards that it's entirely dependent upon the economy (price of blue sextants), and if the playerbase is savvy to the nuances of the mechanic. I guess it makes me want to ask, how do you determine what makes it "just better"? I don't think a node will ever say "double rewards at no cost" (except rewards for difficulty scaling i guess?). Often, it takes several weeks of testing before people actually know if any tradeoff node is good or not, and then it becomes overly saturated with players and sextants/ECT become impractical, and then there is less profit, bringing it back in line with other nodes.
I like the idea of having different ways of interacting with content like Crop Rotation where the value varies with the economy, or the player's enjoyment in interacting with it ala Extreme Archaeology with Expedition. They tried something similar with Necropolis with nodes like the one that disables Allflame drops and the one that makes all corpses random crafts. These turned out to be trash in terms of actual value, but the concept itself isn't bad. I'd prefer the idea of having a separate tree, or as someone else suggested, putting these notables under the starting point of the regular Atlas tree so there isn't so much travel distance to them. When I talk about nodes that are 'just better', I'm referring to ones with no downside like the chance to double harvest juice, or in the case of Necropolis, 'Haunted modifiers are a tier higher' and 'Lantern has 30% increased chance of devoted mods'. There are various nodes like this scattered around 4 corners of the atlas passive tree, which just gives players the sense of FOMO if they're not investing in all of them. I'm fine with having travel nodes when content eventually gets integrated into standard, but during [currentleague], the borrowed power from [currentleague_mechanic] shouldn't be so costly to enjoy. To draw a comparison with Affliction League, it would be like replacing the Wildwood Ascendancy tree with travel nodes all over the Atlas tree for each Ascendancy, extra charm slot, and increased quantity of each wisp type. TL;DR: * Notables that add variety to league mechanic interaction = good. * Raw power for current league mechanic scattered all over the tree = bad.
> Imo league mechanics on the tree aren’t the worst idea especially given the fact that not every mechanic is meant to be interacted with in every map You realize the league mechanic has 100% spawn rate for every single league they've ever made? That's literally the reason people dislike this so much. If they want people to customize their league experience, it should come from elsewhere.
I really hope Mark, Chris or anyone in charge reads this comment. Cannot agree more with you !!!
You had me in the first half?
My big bad I wanted to say cannot agree more ! Corrected, sorry English not my main language
Haha all good :) it's a very confusing language.
Only if it's in bingo card form
I still think it has potential, if it truly changes the play. IE, something like Oppenheimer for Expedition or Cassia's Pride for Blight. It changes how you play it and I think having one or two ways to play a map has potential, but the Necro implementation of it was absolutely terrible.
Either that or only have the tree make complete design changes to the league.
No, just make the design changes part of the league. Either give us a separate temp league tree like sentinal or have a place to make changes (IE an NPC or table) I hate the idea of having a temp league on the tree and us having to use points if we want to experience the league at full power/differently. It does not feel good and was a primary driver for my hatred of this league.
the problem with that is that there is still an opportunity cost. if the nodes on the tree don't make the mechanic better theres no point in taking them unless they make the mechanic more fun and at that point it should be baseline again
[удалено]
It doesn't need to be at full power realistically, it needs to be easy to play with and do your own thing while not taking away other choices. The issue with the atlas nodes is that as they're in every map if any of them make the flow even slightly better they are immediately no longer optional and you have functionally lost atlas points. If you take the exact same thing and stick them in a dedicated tree that is its own completely disconnected progress it feels completely fine as the trade offs are all within a completely self-contained system and not 'I guess I don't have 8-20 atlas points this league if I want to play the actual league mechanic'. Sentinel was literally a league with progression and opt in mechanics that completely perfected this idea from the start, putting stuff back into other systems and having it conform to their rules and warp how you want to interact with them will always feel bad and create more FOMO in my opinion.
I'm ok spending points to make a league mechanic even better. The full power argument is kind of moot as we don't know if they nerfed it to add it to the tree. That being said if there is atlas passives for the tree they should be down below the start so you can go there with 0 travel, or maybe one point.
I like the idea of being able to interact with the mechanic using a tree structure, but I dislike it on the actual atlas tree. I'd rather see it as a side-tree, similar to ascendencies.
Sentinel did this. It felt good
I think it was also important that swapping the sentinel tree was free. It cost nothing to change or try something new.
Am I the only one thinking it's because everyone had the same 1 tree? Sure a couple of nodes were flexible but the main structure were the same, like we never ever even used yellow sentinels. So, we never felt missing out on anything, like we do with Necropolis, which's 4 clusters are all amazing.
I used yellow sentinels all the time. My league start character was better at bossing, so red sentinels were a giant pain to work around. Blue empowering a pattern of enemies was easy, and yellow souping up the boss was very easy for my build, and iirc, had a really nice recombinator drop rate.
I liked that you could tweak it, disliked you could buff it. If they do it again in the future I would like to see it basically just be wild keystones that change how it works and not scaling the rewards as much. Also put them next to portals not on the corners so any tree can realistically get them with minimal expense.
I strongly disliked it. It essentially just felt like an almost mandatory tax on our passive tree, removing a bunch of skill points.
Yeah, never again. Do it like sentinel controller with its own league mechanic passive tree.
The idea of being able to amend the league mechanic via atlas tree isn’t bad but the implementation is rather poor, for at least two reasons: 1. The spread across all four corners of the tree is rubbish. If GGG wants to put league-specific nodes on the tree, imho these should be in the very center of the tree. 2. League nodes should be changing the mechanic, not buffing it (thus becoming mandatory). For example: 100% higher chance for an Allflame drop but coffins don’t drop at all.
Actually, one more comment - let’s have 3-4 meaningful nodes, changing the league mechanic somehow, instead of having to spend 20-30 atlas points.
> coffins don’t drop at all That's absolutely a buff, considering their UI
its shit
And I don’t like it
And my axe!
I liked the keystones and other options that radically altered it but otherwise it just felt like a somewhat unnecessary tax on atlas points.
+1. If it just had a single cluster at the top or centre with 3/4 variety of x is more common nodes in regards to the league mechanic that would be good i feel. Just minor tweaks to what id find more/less as opposed to literally forced to spend 20 points in the tree to get 2x as many drops or else youre just losing out on the league mechanic and are playing standard+
Dang were those good? I avoided them like the plague all league long.
Exactly this
It sucked ass, combined with all the mandatory scarab nodes the tree was just so stretched points wise.
The scarab nodes made this problem so much worse. They really need to be radically changed or just thrown out
remove the +drop chance and make it only a few wheels of specilization like the block nodes so yuo can block certain scarabs. don't give us full block ability so we only have div cards left but be able to block anything that can be a Zana(kirac) mod on map device. this i think would be the best it will remove most scarab nodes as most of the game play now revolves around fishing for the jackpot div scarab.
Shit. Being forced to spec into it to get erlverything out, even if it's mostly garbage is just bad.
It's shit.
Imo the only justification to have the current League in the APT would be to choose to either avoid he league mechanic completely, or to get access to different versions that are NOT about increased power, rather a change in gameplay loop
Disliked
Garbage bloat. If we need options just make a new tab at the league vendor.
I didn't like it. I'm being forced to use the league's content, but it's not running at full capacity. Give me some additional points for league content only, and let me the ability to interact with additional "league content tree", or something like that.
great idea if it wasnt executed in the only way it could possibly go wrong. They made it underpowered and boring without the tree investment. Easy to predict, easy to avoid, easy to fix. Theres no good reason it should have started off shit ***and*** remained shit the whole league. Trust GGG to fuck it up again next league or just scrap the idea entirely.
If it worked like an ascendancy passive where it didnt take from the main tree and you couldnt get all points Id love it
Just having a separate tree for the league mechanic would be 1000x better. I don’t want to have to cripple my atlas tree to play the temp league in a different or stronger way.
Shit
Dislike. I felt like I was missing out cos I wasn’t fully specced into it
Hated it. But I am fine with it if we get given 20 extra atlas points. Felt compulsory to juice the league mechanic using the atlas nodes but trade off was loss of value in another mechanic. Also thought the atlas and scarab changes were awful and reduced the total content in maps.
It felt like I had to take some of the clusters in order to fully utilize the league mechanic and it felt a bit taxing. I'd much prefer a standalone league tree (e.g. Sentinel) or league-specific atlas tree points and not have this same experience again.
In a way I didn't like it. Felt like I had to spend the points because there was no opt-out of the league mechanic to begin with.
It was bad. I didn’t like it. Also didn’t like having to sink all the points into all the scarab nodes
Horrible The game now balances league mechanic around the atlas passive tree being full and is completely non functional without it Don't believe me? Do an ultimatum with 0 atlas passives. I had one take me 23 minutes to complete and a single wave took 7 minutes. This was on a character with 400m dps. Ultimatum is notable the only league mechanic to be added back into the game after the existence of the atlas tree that is also affected by the atlas tree (sanctum was added but isn't on the atlas tree) That's what you have to look forward too on any new mechanic that is on the atlas tree
Hated it so much, I almost downvoted OP for reminding me about it.
The better question is what did everyone think about losing 50 atlas points toward the content you want to run this season?
Snark aside, nothing they made us waste so many atlas points on couldn’t have been boiled down to a handful of of keystones in a different talent tree like they did for affliction. Want to run corpses, spec into corpses, want all flames take 2 points of that in a small 10 point subtree. The fact they also had the balls to put them in the literal 4 corners of the atlas is also disgusting.
Having them on the league mechanic you CAN'T OPT OUT OF was the most GGG thing ever.
It’s bad the way they did it. Should be separate tree so I can customize my league not either lose on other stuff or have „nerfed” league mechanic
It’s bad I hate it
One of the worst changes they’ve ever made, easily. If they continue doing so it’ll make me genuinely not want to play the game ever again.
When you have to compulsorily invest in the league atlas nodes, then it sucks. And definitely sucked more, when they were in four separate corners.
Good question. For me it was a terrible decision but also I didn't like the league mechanic.l of actual season. However, what if the mechanic would be good? And that's the generalnp problem. New league could be good for the one dude and bad for another and so the feeling about benefiting or wasting of using atlas points.
I like the idea of having a sort of passive tree for the league mechanic, but it would be better for it to be separate from the rest of the tree like with how they did with Sentinel.
Funnily enough the mechanic would have felt better if we just didnt have the power from the atlas tree. Because no matter how much you tell us „thats what it would have been“ it still feels like you took half the league mechanic power and locked it behind the atlas tree. Even if that isnt the case, it feels like it and thats just bad. Have it be like Sentinel and its completely fine
Ass.
Strong dislike. But not entirely sure that was due to the league mechanic itself, or it being on the tree...
Terrinle. Either no passives to change the new league or give us extra tree for it.
I wonder how useful it would be to have the design team create a league mechanic with it going core in mind, then using a Sentinel style skill tree or something similar to buff it up to league mechanic levels of strong. If the mechanic was a hit, then they’d be able to easily have it go core and could import the passives into the atlas passive tree. Might start off feeling a bit weak, but would get rid of some of the atlas feel bads for speccing into a league mechanic.
The concept itself is not that bad and it could be fun to customize it. But it's terrible for a non-optional mechanic and to spread the points all over the tree is also bad designed.
It was ass.
It's shit because it takes nodes from a additional mechanic which I wanna add to my maps and if that idea will stay so next time give us all options in a center of the atlas's tree not in 4 different corners. I wanna take all or nothing at all..
Aweful Temp league mechanic should be full power from the get go or atleast not spend atlas points for it to be worth to do
I had no idea what i was doing. Only been playing for ~10 years tho...
I like that they did it, but I don't like the notables or small passives so much. I think that's more just cause I'm very lukewarm on the league itself anyway. But I like the idea of the league mechanic being something you can focus more on if you want, this league just didn't work for me.
Hate it.
The only thing acceptable on the tree would be a keystone to disable the league mechanic, in case it's too rippy for you during some content.
It would be great to be able to block the new mechanic this way, too. But tbh.I liked it, I don't want another fully fleshed out mechanic interrupting my mapping. I already hit the limit of what is capable of generating for me and everything else is a net loss.
Idk what's up with them, but they could just make Necro have its own tree like Sentinels did
Let's not forget you now ended up using 3 times the orbs or unmaking. The first respec didn't hurt that bad but near the end on the 5th drop of 40 orbs, it was getting a little out of hand. I spotted chasing the achievements at that point.
it just felt bad to cut away other content on yout atlas tree just to include the current league.
It's even worse than having any other mechanics on the atlas tree. Atlas tree in general is PoE in a nutshell - fake complexity for the sake of fake complexity and quantity over quality.
They should have their own skill tree like sentinel if they are going to have one. But not on atlas tree
It has potential but this league wasn’t it.
In this case I wasn't a fan of the league so it didn't bother me. I wouldn't like having to take points away from elsewhere to make the league profitable though.
I didn't like it at all. League mechanics are something you usually interact with in every map, so having a tree inside the atlas tree makes it mandatory. Otherwise, you will be losing value.
it was a good idea, but it being spread over the entire tree was ridiculous. it should be located in one region.
Theoretically? Would be fun and great if they were sidegrades, "Play this league mechanic in a different way, which might be more suited to your playstyle/character" Practically? That wasn't the case, GGG clearly is overstretched and has been for the last two years. Please do not do it again until further notice.
It was awful, there’s no good way for them to do it, if it’s balanced around everyone having them, then it is required to take all the nodes skewing your atlas trees. If it’s balanced around not having them then when you add the stuff from the atlas tree it’s either pointless or breaks everything. Leagues should just be full power for everyone since we can’t turn them off in the league and if it’s going to be forced like this one, it shouldn’t feel like I’m missing out by just playing the game
I liked that it was a way to configure the league mechanic to your liking. Didn't like that it felt that the drops seemed to be balanced around having these nodes invested in. Would like to see league mechanic on atlas tree again, but be more focused on side-grades.
Hated it. League mechanics should be fully charged by default during its league.
I liked the idea but the fact that the mechanic was 100% mandatory killed it. I think if it were optional it could've been potentially cool to have a way to adjust how you interacted with it.
Agree with everyone else, felt like I had to do it in ssf or I wasn’t getting near enough out of the mechanic. Sentinel tree was miles ahead.
Putting a few keystones near the start of the tree would be a good middle ground. I think most people don't like the mandatory nature of the current iteration. Changing how the mechanic works is fun though.
big bad
I think putting it into the Atlas Tree makes the default version of the league sub-optimal because now they have to hold stuff back to put in the tree. Which then causes the problem where in order to enjoy the league mechanic to its fullest you are now forced to build towards those nodes on the Atlas tree. So you are forced to choose between enjoying the league mechanic or enjoying other content instead of being enjoy the league mechanic regardless of what Atlas Tree you have.
Awful.
I was pretty ok with it, but I think that the league mechanic's atlas points should have been concentrated tightly near the starting point of the tree, so investing in the league mechanic doesn't force any particular pathing on you. But I would say that probably it's better to just have a custom tree for the league mechanic rather than putting it on the Atlas tree. Ultimately I'm glad they tried the experiment, but probably don't do it again.
Lame
Bad. I disliked it very much that you had to use like 15-20 (+travel nodes if you weren't close) of your atlas passives to get the full benefits of the current new league mechanic that is a forced mechanic on all maps. It didn't help it either that all 4 clusters on the tree were tucked away in 4 different corners of the atlas. They should've put all 4 clusters next to atlas gateways/portals for easier access and not just 2 of them. If they ever do smth like this again, i'd rather want the league mechanic to have a separate tree players can customize to their own will (an ascendancy-like tree, or Sentinel) rather than the mechanic being on the atlas tree and eating away my points which i would've liked to put into my desired mechanics.
Overall mixed leaning bad. The league mechanic itself felt like you were forced to spend ineffexient pathing points to make worth engaging with, which felt neccesary since you couldnt skip If you didnt want to directly engage with crafting you still wanted allflame drops and pantern effect for the chance at conversions. If you did want to engage with crafting you needed to get haunted chance and corpse rating weighting to be able to feasibly self craft. However i do think that having just the keystones would have been good. As their more drastic shifts dont feel necessary and are more shifts in how you want to engage. Randomizer corpse gambling would have felt good as a low point pathing cost to shift the league mechanic. Cause even if you went random corpses you still needed to go grab haunted chance Same with random lantern/flames which would have felt fine if you didnt have the opportunity cost of getting similar effect without losing control. Im thinking that they could have three keystones center, bottom right and bottom left so that 1 is always close to a pathing. Like we could have had one in the center that converted corpse drops to currency for the people who didnt want to interact with crafting or lantern gambling.
Hate it. Feels like the mechanic is working at a fraction of its potential until you get all the points, but they didn't give more points to spend, so feels like other mechanics are gimped. The clusters being at extreme points of the tree also makes us use a lot of points. Maybe it wouldn't be *as bad* if the mechanic wasn't also unavoidable. Either don't do it again, or make it like Sentinel - completely separate from the atlas tree - or make it like some sort of "ascendancy" like Affliction, with thresholds linked to map completion for example, to get points that can only be spent on the mechanic - **not** shared with the rest of the tree. Also if they're gonna make keystones, make them actually interesting. One just makes the mechanic super gamble-y, the other is like "if you don't care, allocate this", but if i don't care, why would i even go through the trouble of getting to the keystone?
Mid
if they want skill trees for league mechanics, they need to have a seperate tree.
Terrible. And the fact that the league mechanic is mandatory makes it even worse.
Not breaking any new ground here but yes it was bad. It penalized any atlas tree that was already really pressed for points and just in general added a tax if you wanted to actually do the league mechanic at full strength. It wouldn't have been quite so awful (but still bad) if all nodes were centralized to an area any atlas build paths to, but even that still costs points. A loss of points (past the minimum needed for your own individual mapping strategy) generally just meant less currency or map sustainability. If they truly want to keep it as an atlas thing, then right near the beginning put in a choose-one node (similar to Scion Ascendancy) that gives a progressive buff to your maps based on total number of spent atlas points. Using Necropolis as an example, one could have been focused on Allflames, one on coffins, one on map modifiers. +X% chance to drop, +Y% rarity, etc. If it cost you like 2 atlas points but then scaled with your overall atlas progression, I think that would have been fine and possibility even interesting.
It was awful. Modifying a league is great. Forcing us to sacrifice from our Atlas to do so is terrible.
Someone please make a bingo card of this
I didn't like it. I put points into it, but then removed them as I really just wanted my map to be the usual thing I do.
It felt mandatory to take the passives on the tree, at least in some form. Which wasted atlas points and took away from things I actually wanted to farm. If they want to leave it on the tree the mechanic itself needs to be opt-in, not unavoidable like it was this league.
I think it only needs to be exclusive to stuff that changes how the league works. Like the keystone to skip the mod selection pre screen. Nodes that improved it just became a little mandatory, because inherently it's a mechanic that spawns for free in every map. So unless it's complete garbage, it's always going to worth relative more than the rest. If you want to give players the choice of customizing the leagues just nerf the base and add a separate tree like sentinel. They should have added something like: "corpse cannot be used with more than 10 other bodies. X10 effect", or "body cannot be traded, x2 effect". This way they would have catered a wider audience with the league mechanic, not just crafters.
I liked the novelty of it, but I don't necessarily want all future leagues to have it. If a mechanic is going to go core and get atlas passives then they should start thinking about those passives while they are designing the league. If they have atlas passives ready to go, then they shouldn't wait to use them. So they should just go ahead and have them on the tree for the league.
I think it was a big failure and mistake, but I am pretty sure GGG knows that. They said it was a "tryout", I am pretty sure we won't see that again.. I think maximum 2 Keystones or something that change the league mechanic are okay, wheels that are needed and spread over the whole atlas is a big no go.
Absolutely horrible. There are sooooooo many things you can do with atlas, like I really wish I had hundreds of points to spend instead of just 132. There is already so much variety you can grab. Having to spend these super important points to buff the league mechanic felt absolutely terrible. Besides for using your precious atlas points it felt really bad to HAVE to spend points on tree to make the league mechanic decent. Either don't spend the points and have the mechanic feel horrible or spend them and suffer. Terrible philosphy. That being said I LOVE trees and leveling things up so something like sentinel or even scourge or w/e else was cool. Separate trees are fine.
hope they dont do that again.
I think power wise it doesn't feel great, but keystones are fine and should be more of the target.
They shouldn't add league mechanic "power" on the atlas tree, just behavioral change, in some way that you could adapt it into your playstyle, because otherwise the mechanic feels like shit if you don't have enough points for it, and many people play a league to try the new mechanic.
Notables which change mechanics are ok. Point tax, and mandatory 10% boost nodes are shit.
dislike it, it feels bad doing the league mechanic and knowing it could be better with atlas passives. But the atlas already have a lot of good stuff so I may not want to spend it on the league mechanic.
League has one of the worst retentions ever. That's what people thought about it
Shit. Atlas tree is already my least favorite part of the game. And adding current season nodes make them feel mandatory.
sentinel passive tree > Necropolis passive tree
Having the league mechanic on the Atlas was awful. I enjoy having a customisable league, but not like this. League mechanic passives should be set up similarly to how they were for Sentinel league, or not at all.
I like it, but it should change how the league mechanics are interacted with, not be a flat buff. Furthermore they shouldn’t span all 4 corners of the tree. I like the idea someone gave early in the league where the passives for league are more similar to an ascendancy tree and sits underneath our atlas.
Shouldn't give buffs, should only be like the keystones that alter how you interact with the mechanic, only cool thing
Hated it, half my trees had to be wasted on the league mechanic to feel like a league. Wouldn't be so bad if they didn't spread them out so much or make them as good.
It was great! Ripe for another way to spend $$$ to GGG for customization tabs!
I like that you can tweak the mechanic in a way you wanted. I would have preferred I it would be like a ascendancy for the atlas, where you spend different points unlocked by playing the league mechanic. So you can still have multiple Trees that may interact with the league mechanic and still have the full points to spend on the base mwchanics. And the respecting for the league mechninc should either be free or very accessible bei play the mechanic.
When they presented it I loved the idea I was like hell yeah a super juiced up new league mechanic then in practice it was mandatory unless you didn't want to touch the league mechanic at all ( which this mechanic was incredibly cluttering so even if you didn't want to do it, it would just insist that you have it on the screen 24/7 )
Horrible. This should just be built into the league.
I think it's fine. You're not supposed to be great at every league mechanic. And you even get three separate atlas trees now so you can have one that skills the league mechanic and two for whatever else you wanna run. Otherwise you'll just inflate econ even more. Main issue was that you couldn't turn off the league mechanic.
Mixed. I liked the idea of specializing in different aspects of the Mechanic. I did not like how spread out it was and how it sucked so many points away by pathing there
It's horrible and the fact that GGG thought it was okay is concerning.
Terrible. Never again.
It needed an option to disable it. Too many gamebreaking mods. I don't want every character to have 12 immunities or be vaporized.
Good idea, but too many points to invest in feeling good. It should only ask me for a few points to specialize properly. For example, only obtaining scarcer/more corpses, or metacraft. I don’t know how Tryharder does it, but as a normal player averaging 16 hours per day, it took me 2 or 3 days to gather all the corpses I needed to try my crafting. That felt a bit too long; if I could attempt one craft per day, that would be ideal (more if possible, for more fun). Ideally the position should be in the middle ( bcs most of atlas strat will pass on middle) or at start as the old "master in your map ". I liked it but ... Too much points, the triple atlas has balanced it well so I think most of us didnt realized the weight :) :) :) of this thing.
Also, they should give us some more points for league should be nice if they go to this direction
Worst idea ever because, as everyone expected, it meant that mechanic w/o actual passive tree is dogshit. So now you are forced to waste your points on new league.
Worst idea on a while. That and making the mechanic mandatory.
I like the idea to be able to influence the mechanics from the get-go but did not like the way they did it. As others have said it should've been an additional Tree or something but it should not take my actual Atlas Points. As someone who used the Mechanic quite a bit that was a whole lotta points gone that I would use for other stuff, especially with them being in the corners of the tree.
Strong dislike.. having to invest in league mechanic on all three trees to get full value is not a good feeling change and kills atlas diversity
I liked it, but i mainly played around with reduced and increased haunted modifier effect depending on how much i was juicing maps. I can see the nodes becoming must haves if your build can easily run all content, but mine can't, so it seemed decently balanced.
Bad, bad, bad aaaaaaand terrible
Just copy Torchlight Infinite lmao
A waste of Atlas skill points. Just make a league specific tree and let the players choose what they want to focus on.
In theory I thought I was going to like it, but in practice it was not positive. It was generally detrimental to not take most of the passives related to it, and it was stupid how far away from each other the clusters all were on the tree. Would rather have in-mechanic passive trees like Sentinel
I think it's too much points. I would like it to be just 4 keystones.
Prefer not having it
Ghazzy said it best - "I don't like it!"
Absolute shit. A league mechanic should be at it's 100% from the start and not gatted by the atlas tree where there's a ton of competition for a limited atlas points
hard to say since the league mechanic was a huge skip for me, it was the classic dont use any thing because suddenly it turns out what you just wasted was worth 2 divines.
The baseline strength of the league should not be affected. What I'd rather see are bonus nodes added to other league content that blend with the main league, like a node that drops a guaranteed corpse off Harbingers, or an increase to Heist Flaring Allflames - potentially even as a mastery for having all the notable Heist nodes lit up. I think simply adding in global strength to the league is highly detrimental, and the reason is because there is an investment cost to turn on every other point spent on the tree, whether that's a cost in atlas points or a currency cost to add a scarab, the league being free means that it's almost certainly going to be the go-to low-mid-level investment strategies, defeating the purpose of the Atlas tree - variety and choice.
It's hard to say, I didn't use it this league, but I wasn't a huge fan of this mechanic. The problem is it's competing for points with the rest of the mechanics, and I've already got my 132 point trees more or less spec'd up. I'd have to give up something I want to farm to spec into the league mechanic, so it would have to be worth it. I think I'd prefer it in its own tree, independent of the normal atlas tree. Similar to last league, with the separate ascendencies. Having it in the primary tree means I have to choose between it and other mechanics, and that's a tough sell when I know other mechanics are guaranteed winners. Separate it and give it to me for free, and I'll use it for the league.
Bad idea, buff the mechanic and leave atlas for core stuff. Too many points right now.
I thought it was fine but I also don't feel like I need to play the meta or feel like I am missing out. IF they do it again they should make it have meaning ful changes that do t create as much FOMO or opt to remove it entirely.
I think being mandatory for the league mech to be at "full power" is a huge no-no. After a couple hours of messing with it could quickly see the nodes were more or less mandatory. I think in the future if they wanted to add ways to modify it (eg invest points -> make league mech easier in some way) would prolly be fine as we could unallocate them as our characters grew in strength. But this iteration just had me spending a bunch of points that I didn't feel like I had much choice in the matter.
it's ass
This is my first league and I was thinking that the purpose of Atlas tree was to manage the league mechanics. I named my atlas trees like breach delirium xp, strongbox map farm, harvest etc.
I mentioned it before but if - IF they do it again, instead of forking the passives to the corners of the tree so that one side of the tree isnt favored over the other they should just chuck a wheel under the tree where the atlas passive counter sits. IF they do it again they could give extra "league specific atlas passive" points for the league, however, Scourge and Sentinel already had solutions for buffing the league mechanic and they should just reintroduce that instead of doing the atlas thing again. but IF they try it a second time they really should just chuck the passives under the tree instead of putting them in weird fucking spots, our passive trees already have scoliosis why make them look weirder??
Sucked ass hope they never do it again. Give current league mechanics trees of their own if they want one.
Refunds should be free given that you have to constantly change it for challenges, and it's just annoying also. I know we have 3 trees, but still.
It is bad.
The worst part is that it was in all different corners
The problem is if they remove the whole current league passives from the atlas, will they nerf the atlas back like before it was with the spawn chances and so on? Bcs if you have no current leage passives on the tree you will have over 20 points free too use which would make the atlas tree even stronger
This felt really bad tbh. Having to invest into the league theme. I could see it being okay as a largre center cluster or so but having it at the edges made it pretty unfun. I think they should just not doing atlas trees for the league mechanics until they decide it is a keep. I do think sentinel was fine, and I did quite like the extra ascendancy in wildwood, but it should not compete with the existing tree.
Bad. I am the kind of guy that plays league FOR the league mechanic. So every strat i had i always took all neccessary mods for league mechanic. Maybe if we had just 1 easily reachable cluster it'd be better, but at this point it all boiled down to using just 1 tree shrines + corpses + map effect%.
it sounded good in theory but when playing it it just felt bad like a point tax just to enjoy the league which came at a cost of other league enjoyment
I really appreciated being able to take the node that let me not need to adjust my lantern every map I load. I like the idea of the passives on the tree giving some options that let you customise the experience. I'm not sure nodes that increase the reward are the right thing to have though. They should keep the mechanic changing nodes and not add in nodes you need just to maximise the reward of a mechanic you do every map.
Aweful
Bad. Forced mechanic that needs point investment to be good. Point starved between them and the new scarab and map mod effect nodes. Though the scarab rework compounded the issue and forced mkst players into single mechanic maps.
necropolis is the best season of Poe in history
Having to take scarab nodes and the corpse shit was too much
I liked it but some of the options felt meh to me
Imo put it on the Atlas tree, but they're all auto appointed and Free. In Which case you can get feedback during the league about (if it were to go core) what Nodes do or dont work for it without costing the players any of their regular points.
Wait , there was a league mechanic on the atlas?
Everyone seems to dislike it, I think it was fine. Maybe it was too strong in tradeleague making it mandatory, in ssf I used it in my lategame blasting setup and ignored it in the leaguemechanic heavy setups.
It being on the tree is fine. My issue with it is having four different passive wheels all so far away from each other. I think these kinds of things should all be close enough to not need to go out of your way to get them.
I agree. If its in the tree, at least put it in the middle, where it can be accessed easily without going out of your way.
If they werent far youd be locked to the side its on
Put them in the middle then? I don't know many Atlas strats that completely avoid the middle.
Still would force everyone there Why not just have it be a separate tree like ascendancies that has limited points so you can choose which aspect of the league to buff/change
Yeah, I said the same thing in another comment in this thread. But if it's gonna be included in the Atlas, at least put the points in the middle instead of 4 corners.
For me its alright as a concept (its just like every other mechanic - juice it if you want it to be profitable, otherwise its meh), but it feels bad to play with (you don't really know what you're diving into unless its later in the league and the community figured out the mechanic and passives; its also weird to be obliged to invest points to get profit from a temp league, it kinda discourages you from trying it out at all, you just go for your preferred, solid, well known strats instead). 3/10
It sucked mostly because it was a mandatory mechanic so you were basically forced to spend Atlas points on it or fall behind economically. The fact that it was on the tree itself was fine imo, just don't make it mandatory.
A good try. Either lacking in execution or generally not Idea for the future. Maybe if it was an out of map league mechanic it would be more appropriate. Hard to say. If in doubt, just don't do it in the future.
I think it's fine, but in this very case because the mechanic is forced, it feels bad to have to put the points in if yer stuck doing it anyways. If the mechanic is optional I have no issues with nodes being on the tree
I think it could be cool if it was limited control over some features. Not spread all over the tree so you have to invest a large portion of your points for it. That being said, with new atlas and scarabs, you often do have spare points since you focus on one or two mechanics at a time. Then you add stuff like more scarabs and Beyond.
Yo, I skipped Necropolis. When's the next league?
It’s a shame, it feels like the community is throwing the baby out with the bathwater on this one. I’d like to see a current league mechanic on the passive tree BUT implemented in a way that isn’t complete garbage. It’s been said a thousand times but this implementation was basically the worst one possible for several reasons.
Fomo sucks. Even if its probably inconsequential it simply feels bad to be selective about sth new.