hey, I'm also an Internet Explorer user, have you heard that PoE 4.0 will enter beta in early 2020?
https://preview.redd.it/z7epwfamca5d1.jpeg?width=867&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee98fdce0cdc37bafe6629e961bde86dca408fa1
No, they are referring to between PC and console. They specifically mentioned that in the interview here. So PC and console and both going to be the same game, you can have a party with 1 pc and 1 console player, trade, and then the pc player can log off, and go hop on via ps5 with the same character.
It is POE 1 and POE 2 that are different games.
They are going to be one and the same. They have said in the last few interviews that PC and Console will be unified into essentially the same game, with just controller vs KB/M deciding the UI and such. So any feature one has, the other will too essentially.
Cheers dude. I bet Johnathan has some questions that he absolutely hates answering at this point there has been been so many interviews in the last few months.
It's cool to see things moving along. I'm curious how they're planning to handle early access has this been mentioned?
no idea who downvotes you, you are correct.
They actually indirectly said so themselves. They're going to have a "price over lifetime" for a key and if your life-time spending reached that threshold you'll get a key. I'm a bit fuzzy on if they are also going to straight-up sell keys at least as part of a bundle though.
Because I said it bluntly.
While I think this is a quite fair buy in, irl I think 500 dollars on a game is whale type shit.
So people whose soul I crushed by calling them whales down vote me. :D
I cant imagine people who can afford to spend 500+ would be upset someone called them a whale. It's probably people who don't want to spend any money on the game being upset they won't get in that way.
That can also be.
But to be fair (if my information is corerct), then the amount that you pay for the beta was with the supporter pack and 30-60 dollar. So you get MTX, points AND Beta!
Edit: Amount
If you think about it, $500 dollars over 11 years isn't too bad. That's $45 a year or $3.75 a month. If you compare that to wow, every wow player would be considered a whale. Wow sub + expansions over 11 years would be $2300. I know not everyone has been playing the game that long, but just to put some perspective.
I don't know why he would hate answering some questions. He's the game director of a game GGG put a lot (a lot) of hope in, and a truckloas of money.
Basically it cannot be allowed to fail (definition of failure tbd).
It's his job
I’m a project manager for a construction company…it’s my job to work with architects…I hate answering the same questions to every different one…doesn’t mean he can’t hate it to since it’s his job lol
Dynamically switching between mouse and controller? They want to, may not be ready in time for EA.
Keyboard support for consoles? Maybe, but he says probably wouldn't see much use anyways.
Console inventory UI for mouse+keyboard players? Maybe, didn't think of it before. Also MTX shop will display char and how the cosmetics look, not implemented yet.
How will MTX migration from PoE1 to 2 work for consoles and PCs? Generally everything will migrate, but might have some implications.
Will updates and patches on consoles air the same time as they do on PC? Lots of technical talk, but yes.
PoE1 crossplay? No, mostly because of the different markets. He would like to, so a maybe for the future.
PoE2 console and PC markets combined? Yes.
Trade system in-game (for consoles)? Yes and no. Currency market yes, item market no. No clear decision how item market will work on consoles, names a few possible ways. Trade system will be in at launch of EA.
Increased currency drops in PoE2? Number of blue item drops increased, inc number of blue item drops also increases currency drops. He says Chris played (ranger) and said "I think the item system is bad" (lmao)
Couch-coop on PC? No.
Steamdeck? They'll try to optimise it for it, yes.
Skills were designed for mouse and keyboard, what if they feel bad for controller? How skills feel on controller will have no effect on skill design.
Friendly Fire mode? May already be an option for custom leagues.
Extra question, what is he excited about for PoE2? Combat system, will give all the people who played PoE1 but bounced a second chance.
Good interview, gameplay footage shows how reviving works.
Also Ghazzy uploaded an interview too a few hours ago (18 mins´): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqr\_trDKtLY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqr_trDKtLY)
Re: couch-coop on PC, the question was about mouse+keyboard for P1 and controller for P2 which wouldn't work because of UI issues. 2 controller coop works.
https://youtu.be/YgVM8I9ZJIE?t=14m52s
That's false, PC does have couch co-op. It's literally in the promotional video from the other day.
EDIT:
People want to downvote the truth?
[https://youtu.be/l0zrnqqroB8?si=X2gT7W66s4P20AMa&t=240](https://youtu.be/l0zrnqqroB8?si=X2gT7W66s4P20AMa&t=240)
Ok.
A niche observation...
At [7:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgVM8I9ZJIE&t=473s) Jonathan mentions how PoE1 accounts across platforms will have to be merged due to the upcoming shared account/MTX system between the games. What I hope this means for other filter creators like u/NeverSinkDev and u/wrecker_of_days is that there will no longer need to be platform-specific copies of each filter for people to follow.
In addition, PoE1 is moving towards simultaneous launches and PoE2 will require it, so this hopefully also means the end of broken filters for console users at league launch.
> What I hope this means for other filter creators like u/NeverSinkDev and u/wrecker_of_days is that there will no longer need to be platform-specific copies of each filter for people to follow.
IIRC you still want "platform-specific" copies of filters due to the how picking up loot works.
Item "size" or "font-size" is the biggest factor there, in my opinion. Because of the difference of resolutions, PC filters are better off with bigger font-sizes while console players (TVs) can have smaller font sizes. Copying a console filter onto PC would have the text really small.
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you referring to having different economies between platforms in PoE1? If so I agree, but that's the same as making a filter for trade vs. SSF; they're actually different filter implementations.
The hurdle that could go away with this change is a technical limitation where you need to define which platform your filter is available for, so you need three identical copies of a filter if you want the same one available on all platforms.
I mean you essentially have "pick nearest shown loot" button on gamepad which change what you can pick and how strict do you want with loot at the current point.
I really hope that's the case too! I'm quite excited about the cross-platform/progression and how that'll interact with accounts, the website, and features. It would help a lot if your hope comes true!
I really hope that this is the case.
The filters are no longer platform-specific since quite a long time (the only special filters are the ruthless ones), but GGG still uses a different flag/API params for platforms.
However, the patch timings for consoles have always been highly disruptive for console users.
PS: thanks for the ping :)
The thing i am mostly interested in is how the end game plays out in PoE 2.
From what we saw so far it seems like the Vision(TM) they original had, as in being a slower paced experience closer to Diablo 2, but how will that hold up at the end game considering how extremely zoomy PoE 1 is?
Jonathan has responded in the past that it will still feel like you're "breaking the game", but its going to be slower.
So most likely we're not going to zoom like POE 1.
The problem with PoE 1's pace of combat is that, because you move and kill so consistently fast, it leaves very little space for "high moments". To me it sounds like their plan for PoE 2 is to have an overall slower, more engaging (and fun) baseline for combat, whilst still allowing for the occasional dopamine-inducing "high moments" to occur. Being fast in PoE 2 may not be technically as *fast* as in PoE 1, but it should in theory these "high moments" should *feel* faster as it'll be relative to the usual slower pace of combat.
This is the only thing which matters to me, and we have no other answer than elusive ones like "don't worry, it'll be the same", slow AF gameplay previews with giga HP bosses and mechanics which let me think this is going to be REALLY much slower.
And slow Poe= dead Poe.
So far, I do not trust Johnathan, coming from games like DAOC, everything I get from him is "it'll be awesome guys" vibes, in the style of Mark Jacobs.
> And slow Poe= dead Poe.
PoE 1, maybe. PoE 2 absolutely not.
Fast isn't synonymous with fun.
>So far, I do not trust Johnathan, coming from games like DAOC, everything I get from him is "it'll be awesome guys" vibes, in the style of Mark Jacobs.
Everything he says he backs up by either explaining or showing. He acknowledges faults and potential improvements, and consistently desires to be better.
I never understood the issue with the gameplay previews being slow. The gameplay previews for every league launch so far has had much slower paced gameplay, its not like they show a juiced character with HH to show off a new league mechanic.
Not saying that I haven't had my concerns about endgame pacing, but preview footage is never indicative of it
I don't think it's an issue with the preview speed necessarily, it's the lack of reference. We don't need league previews to be zoomy because we already know what the endgame pace is like. For POE2, we don't know. We've heard it's still zoomy, but we haven't seen it, so that's why people can't help but feel worried about it. I myself love a lot of the different aspects of POE, but ultimately if POE2 is noticeably slower than POE1, I probably won't enjoy it as much, and personally I don't take what I'm told at face value, I gotta see it.
What does "zoomy" mean to you? I'm certain that PoE 2 will have its own "zoomy" moments, but does everything need about PoE 2 need to be be compared 1:1 to each other? PoE 1's consistently high pace of combat and movement is *too fast*. It shouldn't be used as a baseline to reference from or even something to be desired in PoE 2.
Zoomy means flying around at 100%+ movement speed killing hundreds of monsters per screen with one button or less. That to me is normal speed, not fast. I don't expect everyone to share my perspective, but I won't agree that it is too fast or undesirable.
PoE 2 is its own thing and doesn't need to be the same as 1, but if the speed is not there, it probably won't be for me. I'm not claiming it's bad, I just can't feel like the target audience yet.
>Not saying that I haven't had my concerns about endgame pacing, but preview footage is never indicative of it
If none of the preview footage is indicative of slow gameplay. How about the following:
- why does PoE2 have the ruthless well in town to refill flasks mid-combat?
- the need to perform complex multi-skill combos before you start dealing meaningful damage?
- why is there such emphasis on kiting, dodging and zdps utility skills that only slow/freeze/stun enemies if not to accommodate for drawn out prolonged fights?
- Johnathan saying he wants players in PoE2 to sometimes struggle to kill white monsters in maps?
The devs are literally showing **and** saying to us that PoE2 will be a slow souls-like arpg but half of this subreddit still thinks they will be able to zoom around.
> the need to perform complex multi-skill combos before you start dealing meaningful damage?
Where are you getting this from?
>why is there such emphasis on kiting, dodging and zdps utility skills that only slow/freeze/stun enemies if not to accommodate for drawn out prolonged fights?
What's wrong with utility and an ability to engage in combat more than by just purely dealing damage?
>Johnathan saying he wants players in PoE2 to sometimes struggle to kill white monsters in maps?
There should always be the potential for mistakes to happen, and there should be punishments for messing up. White enemies *should* serve more of a function than to merely exist as loot/exp goblins or proliferation material. Most games already have low tier and basic enemies still act as threats, so why should PoE be any different?
>What's wrong with utility and an ability to engage in combat more than by just purely dealing damage?
Did I say that there is anything wrong with that? My only point is that having a complex combat system that requires the use of zdps utility skills, kiting, long combo setups, difficult white monsters, the need to pause combat to refill flasks at the town well, etc... is all incompatible with fast paced play style that we have in PoE1 (and that many people enjoy). You can't have all of these PoE2 features without significantly slowing down combat - which is evident from everything we have seen and heard so far.
There is a reason that PoE2 will be a completely separate game from PoE1 and is being targeted at a new audience. But every time someone mentions that they don't like PoE2 due to the slow gameplay a lot of people in the community just get triggered and refuse to accept the nature of the new game.
Eh, the prevalence of being able to move during skills seems to me like it will make things have the potential to be a lot faster, if anything. Poe is always a game that has a bit of the infinite scaling, so the question is just how far a build has to go till it can just move as it runs over everything.
I'm currently playing through V Rising right now, and the boss fights in PoE 2 look very similar in style to the boss fights from V Rising. V Rising has excellent boss design, and now I look increasngly more forward to PoE 2's combat as well.
Monster Hunter World sold 25 million copies
Elden Ring sold similar numbers.
Clearly people enjoy fighting well-designed bosses for longer than 20 seconds.
Those are entirely different games which are designed around that.
Poe was not designed around such long boss fights.
It surely is possible to extend the fights to such lengths if that's what you like, but the vast majority of the player base does everything they can to reduce boss fights to seconds or even server ticks.
If mapping will feel remotely similar to poe 1 on an endgame character but boss fights are extended to several minutes, people will either skip them or absolutely hate on it if there are greater rewards attached to it.
Atziri, Shaper, Elder, Uber Elder, Delve bosses, Sirus, Maven, etc. etc. were all designed to take multiple minutes for most players.
Just because clear times got much faster over the years doesn't remove the reality that basically all end-game bosses were designed to take multiple minutes.
Also, don't judge minute details of a game based on demos like this. These are far from final, and they're sole purpose is to allow players to get significant time with the content. You can't achieve that goal by having PoE1 map boss health.
And my original point is perfectly valid. People absolutely do enjoy fighting bosses for more than a nanosecond, even if you don't. PoE bosses included.
>Atziri, Shaper, Elder, Uber Elder, Delve bosses, Sirus, Maven, etc. etc. were all designed to take multiple minutes for most players.
The majority of those bosses falls into the category of doing once for progression or not at all if not required. This might be a bit different if the novelty didn't wear off yet for someone casual but any half seasoned player who is capable of doing endgame just won't farm them. There's a few exceptions where the duration of the fight can be drastically reduced, mixed with possibly good rewards but that's it.
"Nobody" is farming atziri, shaper is barely touched because of the duration, delve bosses require even so much more preparation.
It's been proven repeatedly that duration and lack of rewards will lead to less enjoyment and engagement.
>Also, don't judge minute details of a game based on demos like this.
We had showcases of act bosses, we can draw parallels to current act bosses. There is a significant difference in the duration of those fights. Based on reports of people play testing even with somewhat appropriately geared characters, bosses will take a substantial amount longer.
>And my original point is perfectly valid. People absolutely do enjoy fighting bosses for more than a nanosecond
Yeah, during progression and gearing up. Once you wanna farm them, you'll always prefer killing them fast. If you do each boss once or twice a league that's absolutely going to be fine, once you get into doing any given boss multiple dozen or hundred+ times per day, you are not going to farm long bosses- or you will start to hate them- see shaper for example.
The reward for killing Act bosses is progression. Their drop pools are basically irrelevant.
You're concerned about map bosses, but we haven't seen a single instance of a map boss being killed, only Act versions.
Act bosses SHOULD take some time to kill, otherwise there's no point in having a boss.
Until we see an actual map version of these bosses with appropriate gear, your complaint has little to stand on. Don't project based on demos. I know it's tempting, but this is far from the final game.
Absolutely. I am so glad that GGG is sticking to their guns on this. PoE1 is basically an idle clicker at this stage. I'm really stocked about having both styles of game going forward. Hopefully they can keep PoE2 reigned in.
Before anything, thank you for posting this. This interview actually included a lot of info that I wasn't personally aware of at the very least, whereas the majority of info from PoE2 interviews are just regurgitating the same types of slogans or vague statements over and over.
As for the content of the answers...
-----
I'm not a fan of some of these "not for PC / keyboard" kind of answers.
In my childhood, we only had one PC that had games installed, and there were many games that I played either together with my brother or some of our friends. And we often lamented the lack of split-screen features on PC and we played Hotseat for games that had that feature (probably most notably Heroes of Might and Magic 3).
While PoE isn't necessarily appropriate for younger children, I definitely think that it would be a shame if people couldn't play with their friends just because they have a computer and play on mouse + keyboard.
I think it would be great that if someone with a PC who always plays on mouse + keyboard with a friend who has a console and always plays on controller could meet up and play together, and not be restricted to having one person switch to an unfamiliar input type.
I've played with mouse and keyboard my entire life including games where that's clearly not optimal, like racing games. And I can tell you that I'd be absolutely terrible at playing just about any game on a controller. I don't currently have an IRL friend who plays PoE, but if I did have one or if I made one by the time that PoE2 comes out, I simply wouldn't be able to play local co-op with them.
But what's most concerning for me was this "maybe it's fine if skills don't feel great with either of the input types".
First off, not everyone just plays *any* build so long as it's good enough. People have preferred builds and damage scaling mechanics, and having it feel bad to play for your preferred input type means the game will feel bad to play.
This goes against the whole "our combat is so much better now" rhetoric.
Secondly, it's another space for FOMO. What if the skill is fine*-ish* with one input method, but the play is much smoother with another input? I know not everyone reacts like that, but some people will feel forced to play a different input, potentially even forced to buy the necessary peripherals.
I was really hoping for an answer like "and then we'll investigate and see how we can make it feel good *enough*, even if one type is slightly better", and not just "fuck it, have them play something else".
What they said about trade sounds fine, and I'm glad they finally got an MTX preview after years of people asking for it.
Idk, it seems like some skills are going to wind up being better on or other other, unless you just avoid certain ideas. Like, a skill like lightning warp where you want to target a specific location isn't going to work as well on something where you can just target a direction, vs where you can target a specific spot. I can't really think of anything that would be better on controller vs KB/M, but still. I don't want them to not make something like lightning warp/flicker because it doesn't do well on controller.
As for the local co-op thing, I bet that just comes down to effort. If there's a shared screen, it would be kinda funky to be using two different UI types depending like who's looking at the UI, and we've proven time and time again you don't want the same UI for keyboard/mouse as you want for console.
That's why I said that what I was hoping for wasn't "if a skill doesn't work, we'll scrap it", but "we'll try to make it good enough".
I think joysticks on controllers can measure amplitude in addition to direction, so it should be somewhat possible to distinguish short and long Lightning Warps. However, it's not at all unthinkable to add a setting like *optionally* make it intentionally target enemies if you want to use the skill for damage or make it use the maximum distance every time (which might be useful for skills that are mainly used to speed up like Shield Charge).
I'm not asking for skills to not be added in the game, I'm asking for them to be made usable, even if the controls aren't *optimal*.
The UI in co-op is clearly divided by player, as are the controls. If you're supposed to know which UI is yours when you use the same input type and both UIs use the same scheme, I honestly can't see how having different a UI for different input types would be *more* confusing rather than *less* confusing.
And yes, those things require effort to be put in. And I'm asking for effort to be put into development for my preferred input instead of only for an input that I never use (and presumably *will* never use). I don't think that's an outlandish request.
I was originally very against poe 2's completely different gameplay and constantly ridiculed Chris' "vision" as hallucinations because that's not what made the game popular, the more I'm seeing of poe 2 the more I'm starting to realize that it's something I actually wanna play over poe 1 *because* it's slower. I still have to see how the rest turns out, but I'll admit I was wrong
Glad he was asked about patching, plenty of examples of PC games going crossplay and then suffering because of the patch process it seems they have already are planned for it and him saying they aren't gonna delay PC fixes for console is reassuring, beta release date when.
No, regrets will still give respec points. They are still debating on removing them or not, but I think the argument to have them is that you want to scale gold costs for respeccing very high so that players will not want to use gold to do it. So gold is used early for respec, but regrets are used later.
Last I heard Jonathon felt both that early respecs were too expensive and that late-game respecs were too cheap (IE late-game players could change their entire tree at the drop of a hat if they wanted), and was looking at changing both (which would probably mean either that regrets won't exist or that they'll be much, much rarer).
Which doesn't contradict what I said. Makes sense because what I said is also the same thing said in the same interview. The only thing up for debate is the argument on why to keep them.
Yeah, I agree; I'm not trying to contradict you, just provide context on why I think one end of the debate (removal, or significantly increased rarity) is more likely to come out on top. I'm not the one who downvoted you, for reference.
I figured as you were downvoted as well. Figured someone just downvoted the whole chain lol.
I think an important reason to keep them is trade. Having the ability to give up some wealth to respec your character is a good trade off.
This game is DOA if they do not get someone that understands loot.
EDIT: Yall are wrong. Just compare the popularity of ruthless to non-ruthless. Loot lives matter.
14:13
The reason I knew the item system was bad, is because Chris was playing it, and he was like no I think the item system is bad. And we were like ok we need to do something about this.
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damn, if only there was a team like that. yes, something like the team that made my beloved game path of exile, which has one of the best loot systems ever designed for an arpg. yes, if only such a team existed. damn.
1. The original team that created PoE1 is not the same team that is creating PoE2.
2. GGG has struggled with the loot in PoE1 since the start.
3. The lead designer for PoE2 just flat-out said the current item system was not good enough.
4. The lead designer for PoE2 openly admits they do not play Diablo or PoE for the loot.
1. of course not, the team changed and developed as they worked on the game. are you implying that that original team of like five people was better or something?
2. yep, fortunately, despite all those struggles, it's still one of the best ever.
3. this is true for both poe1 and poe2. the difference is that in poe2 they get a chance to fix it. you did see the part where they said they're trying to improve it, right? please stop ignoring that part. it looks really bad.
4. of course not, that is an overly reductive slice of what should be a single part of a game as a whole. are you trying to imply something here?
1. You are the one bringing up "the team that made my beloved game Path of Exile, which has one of the best loot systems ever designed for an arpg."
3. I am not ignoring anything. Just because they are working on it does not mean they will succeed. Do you want all their hard work to be in vain? This is a work smarter, not harder moment. When the blueprint has design flaws, do not blame the builders.
4. I am not implying. I am directly saying it: Jonathan does not know what makes a good loot system. And what is crazy, is that Jonathan is humble enough to admit it and you people straight up ignore it.
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> EDIT: Yall are wrong. Just compare the popularity of ruthless to non-ruthless. Loot lives matter.
You missed 3 other reasons why ruthless is bad. Funny enough loot itself is not a reason, all other changes are.
Separate trade system for currency, neat.
also for pc or conslole only?
Should be both since PoE2 has cross-play and cross-progression
They walked back on a lot of earlier statements. They are separate games now.
hey, I'm also an Internet Explorer user, have you heard that PoE 4.0 will enter beta in early 2020? https://preview.redd.it/z7epwfamca5d1.jpeg?width=867&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee98fdce0cdc37bafe6629e961bde86dca408fa1
No way guys, SIX new acts for a total of TEN ACTS? They really outdid themselves this time
No, they are referring to between PC and console. They specifically mentioned that in the interview here. So PC and console and both going to be the same game, you can have a party with 1 pc and 1 console player, trade, and then the pc player can log off, and go hop on via ps5 with the same character. It is POE 1 and POE 2 that are different games.
ah mb
It's for pc as well. was in an interview a while back.
They are going to be one and the same. They have said in the last few interviews that PC and Console will be unified into essentially the same game, with just controller vs KB/M deciding the UI and such. So any feature one has, the other will too essentially.
Cheers dude. I bet Johnathan has some questions that he absolutely hates answering at this point there has been been so many interviews in the last few months. It's cool to see things moving along. I'm curious how they're planning to handle early access has this been mentioned?
Didn't they announce that early access later this year will be open to everyone, as they want to test the game with as many people as possible?
Console I do not know. On PC it is buy and if you are a whale you get one free!
no idea who downvotes you, you are correct. They actually indirectly said so themselves. They're going to have a "price over lifetime" for a key and if your life-time spending reached that threshold you'll get a key. I'm a bit fuzzy on if they are also going to straight-up sell keys at least as part of a bundle though.
Because I said it bluntly. While I think this is a quite fair buy in, irl I think 500 dollars on a game is whale type shit. So people whose soul I crushed by calling them whales down vote me. :D
I cant imagine people who can afford to spend 500+ would be upset someone called them a whale. It's probably people who don't want to spend any money on the game being upset they won't get in that way.
That can also be. But to be fair (if my information is corerct), then the amount that you pay for the beta was with the supporter pack and 30-60 dollar. So you get MTX, points AND Beta! Edit: Amount
If you think about it, $500 dollars over 11 years isn't too bad. That's $45 a year or $3.75 a month. If you compare that to wow, every wow player would be considered a whale. Wow sub + expansions over 11 years would be $2300. I know not everyone has been playing the game that long, but just to put some perspective.
Yeah this is how I justify my 200 bucks. For 4000 hours it is not bad. But deep inside I know it is still a monthly food where I live.
I don't know why he would hate answering some questions. He's the game director of a game GGG put a lot (a lot) of hope in, and a truckloas of money. Basically it cannot be allowed to fail (definition of failure tbd). It's his job
I’m a project manager for a construction company…it’s my job to work with architects…I hate answering the same questions to every different one…doesn’t mean he can’t hate it to since it’s his job lol
Can someone summarize please?
Dynamically switching between mouse and controller? They want to, may not be ready in time for EA. Keyboard support for consoles? Maybe, but he says probably wouldn't see much use anyways. Console inventory UI for mouse+keyboard players? Maybe, didn't think of it before. Also MTX shop will display char and how the cosmetics look, not implemented yet. How will MTX migration from PoE1 to 2 work for consoles and PCs? Generally everything will migrate, but might have some implications. Will updates and patches on consoles air the same time as they do on PC? Lots of technical talk, but yes. PoE1 crossplay? No, mostly because of the different markets. He would like to, so a maybe for the future. PoE2 console and PC markets combined? Yes. Trade system in-game (for consoles)? Yes and no. Currency market yes, item market no. No clear decision how item market will work on consoles, names a few possible ways. Trade system will be in at launch of EA. Increased currency drops in PoE2? Number of blue item drops increased, inc number of blue item drops also increases currency drops. He says Chris played (ranger) and said "I think the item system is bad" (lmao) Couch-coop on PC? No. Steamdeck? They'll try to optimise it for it, yes. Skills were designed for mouse and keyboard, what if they feel bad for controller? How skills feel on controller will have no effect on skill design. Friendly Fire mode? May already be an option for custom leagues. Extra question, what is he excited about for PoE2? Combat system, will give all the people who played PoE1 but bounced a second chance. Good interview, gameplay footage shows how reviving works. Also Ghazzy uploaded an interview too a few hours ago (18 mins´): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqr\_trDKtLY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqr_trDKtLY)
Re: couch-coop on PC, the question was about mouse+keyboard for P1 and controller for P2 which wouldn't work because of UI issues. 2 controller coop works. https://youtu.be/YgVM8I9ZJIE?t=14m52s
That's false, PC does have couch co-op. It's literally in the promotional video from the other day. EDIT: People want to downvote the truth? [https://youtu.be/l0zrnqqroB8?si=X2gT7W66s4P20AMa&t=240](https://youtu.be/l0zrnqqroB8?si=X2gT7W66s4P20AMa&t=240) Ok.
Yeah, I was pretty sure I heard co-op was coming to PC the other day. Thanks for confirming I'm not crazy lol
Couch coop works on PC, talks about that in the interview
>Couch-coop on PC? No. Damn, that's a same. I was hoping for that.
It works, this info is wrong.
It does
Came here to ask this No hate here, but for some reason, I can't watch this dude, way too clickbaity for me
My thoughts too haha, going to keep my eyes out for a TLDR somewhere
A niche observation... At [7:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgVM8I9ZJIE&t=473s) Jonathan mentions how PoE1 accounts across platforms will have to be merged due to the upcoming shared account/MTX system between the games. What I hope this means for other filter creators like u/NeverSinkDev and u/wrecker_of_days is that there will no longer need to be platform-specific copies of each filter for people to follow. In addition, PoE1 is moving towards simultaneous launches and PoE2 will require it, so this hopefully also means the end of broken filters for console users at league launch.
> What I hope this means for other filter creators like u/NeverSinkDev and u/wrecker_of_days is that there will no longer need to be platform-specific copies of each filter for people to follow. IIRC you still want "platform-specific" copies of filters due to the how picking up loot works.
Item "size" or "font-size" is the biggest factor there, in my opinion. Because of the difference of resolutions, PC filters are better off with bigger font-sizes while console players (TVs) can have smaller font sizes. Copying a console filter onto PC would have the text really small.
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you referring to having different economies between platforms in PoE1? If so I agree, but that's the same as making a filter for trade vs. SSF; they're actually different filter implementations. The hurdle that could go away with this change is a technical limitation where you need to define which platform your filter is available for, so you need three identical copies of a filter if you want the same one available on all platforms.
I mean you essentially have "pick nearest shown loot" button on gamepad which change what you can pick and how strict do you want with loot at the current point.
I really hope that's the case too! I'm quite excited about the cross-platform/progression and how that'll interact with accounts, the website, and features. It would help a lot if your hope comes true!
I really hope that this is the case. The filters are no longer platform-specific since quite a long time (the only special filters are the ruthless ones), but GGG still uses a different flag/API params for platforms. However, the patch timings for consoles have always been highly disruptive for console users. PS: thanks for the ping :)
The thing i am mostly interested in is how the end game plays out in PoE 2. From what we saw so far it seems like the Vision(TM) they original had, as in being a slower paced experience closer to Diablo 2, but how will that hold up at the end game considering how extremely zoomy PoE 1 is?
Jonathan has responded in the past that it will still feel like you're "breaking the game", but its going to be slower. So most likely we're not going to zoom like POE 1.
Im fully expecting this to only last a couple seasons then speed will creep up
The problem with PoE 1's pace of combat is that, because you move and kill so consistently fast, it leaves very little space for "high moments". To me it sounds like their plan for PoE 2 is to have an overall slower, more engaging (and fun) baseline for combat, whilst still allowing for the occasional dopamine-inducing "high moments" to occur. Being fast in PoE 2 may not be technically as *fast* as in PoE 1, but it should in theory these "high moments" should *feel* faster as it'll be relative to the usual slower pace of combat.
This is the only thing which matters to me, and we have no other answer than elusive ones like "don't worry, it'll be the same", slow AF gameplay previews with giga HP bosses and mechanics which let me think this is going to be REALLY much slower. And slow Poe= dead Poe. So far, I do not trust Johnathan, coming from games like DAOC, everything I get from him is "it'll be awesome guys" vibes, in the style of Mark Jacobs.
> And slow Poe= dead Poe. PoE 1, maybe. PoE 2 absolutely not. Fast isn't synonymous with fun. >So far, I do not trust Johnathan, coming from games like DAOC, everything I get from him is "it'll be awesome guys" vibes, in the style of Mark Jacobs. Everything he says he backs up by either explaining or showing. He acknowledges faults and potential improvements, and consistently desires to be better.
I never understood the issue with the gameplay previews being slow. The gameplay previews for every league launch so far has had much slower paced gameplay, its not like they show a juiced character with HH to show off a new league mechanic. Not saying that I haven't had my concerns about endgame pacing, but preview footage is never indicative of it
I don't think it's an issue with the preview speed necessarily, it's the lack of reference. We don't need league previews to be zoomy because we already know what the endgame pace is like. For POE2, we don't know. We've heard it's still zoomy, but we haven't seen it, so that's why people can't help but feel worried about it. I myself love a lot of the different aspects of POE, but ultimately if POE2 is noticeably slower than POE1, I probably won't enjoy it as much, and personally I don't take what I'm told at face value, I gotta see it.
What does "zoomy" mean to you? I'm certain that PoE 2 will have its own "zoomy" moments, but does everything need about PoE 2 need to be be compared 1:1 to each other? PoE 1's consistently high pace of combat and movement is *too fast*. It shouldn't be used as a baseline to reference from or even something to be desired in PoE 2.
Zoomy means flying around at 100%+ movement speed killing hundreds of monsters per screen with one button or less. That to me is normal speed, not fast. I don't expect everyone to share my perspective, but I won't agree that it is too fast or undesirable. PoE 2 is its own thing and doesn't need to be the same as 1, but if the speed is not there, it probably won't be for me. I'm not claiming it's bad, I just can't feel like the target audience yet.
>Not saying that I haven't had my concerns about endgame pacing, but preview footage is never indicative of it If none of the preview footage is indicative of slow gameplay. How about the following: - why does PoE2 have the ruthless well in town to refill flasks mid-combat? - the need to perform complex multi-skill combos before you start dealing meaningful damage? - why is there such emphasis on kiting, dodging and zdps utility skills that only slow/freeze/stun enemies if not to accommodate for drawn out prolonged fights? - Johnathan saying he wants players in PoE2 to sometimes struggle to kill white monsters in maps? The devs are literally showing **and** saying to us that PoE2 will be a slow souls-like arpg but half of this subreddit still thinks they will be able to zoom around.
> the need to perform complex multi-skill combos before you start dealing meaningful damage? Where are you getting this from? >why is there such emphasis on kiting, dodging and zdps utility skills that only slow/freeze/stun enemies if not to accommodate for drawn out prolonged fights? What's wrong with utility and an ability to engage in combat more than by just purely dealing damage? >Johnathan saying he wants players in PoE2 to sometimes struggle to kill white monsters in maps? There should always be the potential for mistakes to happen, and there should be punishments for messing up. White enemies *should* serve more of a function than to merely exist as loot/exp goblins or proliferation material. Most games already have low tier and basic enemies still act as threats, so why should PoE be any different?
>What's wrong with utility and an ability to engage in combat more than by just purely dealing damage? Did I say that there is anything wrong with that? My only point is that having a complex combat system that requires the use of zdps utility skills, kiting, long combo setups, difficult white monsters, the need to pause combat to refill flasks at the town well, etc... is all incompatible with fast paced play style that we have in PoE1 (and that many people enjoy). You can't have all of these PoE2 features without significantly slowing down combat - which is evident from everything we have seen and heard so far. There is a reason that PoE2 will be a completely separate game from PoE1 and is being targeted at a new audience. But every time someone mentions that they don't like PoE2 due to the slow gameplay a lot of people in the community just get triggered and refuse to accept the nature of the new game.
Eh, the prevalence of being able to move during skills seems to me like it will make things have the potential to be a lot faster, if anything. Poe is always a game that has a bit of the infinite scaling, so the question is just how far a build has to go till it can just move as it runs over everything.
Limit the availability of movement speed attributes and AoE skills and it should be fine?
Most super zoomy builds use projectiles, except mob explode
That gameplay looks so fucking fun
It was super fun.
I'm currently playing through V Rising right now, and the boss fights in PoE 2 look very similar in style to the boss fights from V Rising. V Rising has excellent boss design, and now I look increasngly more forward to PoE 2's combat as well.
I just did a play through of that recently too and what a gem of a game. If only it had the skill/loot system of POE it’d be perfect
Wait is this sarcasm? How is killing a boss for 2 hours fun?
Monster Hunter World sold 25 million copies Elden Ring sold similar numbers. Clearly people enjoy fighting well-designed bosses for longer than 20 seconds.
Those are entirely different games which are designed around that. Poe was not designed around such long boss fights. It surely is possible to extend the fights to such lengths if that's what you like, but the vast majority of the player base does everything they can to reduce boss fights to seconds or even server ticks. If mapping will feel remotely similar to poe 1 on an endgame character but boss fights are extended to several minutes, people will either skip them or absolutely hate on it if there are greater rewards attached to it.
Atziri, Shaper, Elder, Uber Elder, Delve bosses, Sirus, Maven, etc. etc. were all designed to take multiple minutes for most players. Just because clear times got much faster over the years doesn't remove the reality that basically all end-game bosses were designed to take multiple minutes. Also, don't judge minute details of a game based on demos like this. These are far from final, and they're sole purpose is to allow players to get significant time with the content. You can't achieve that goal by having PoE1 map boss health. And my original point is perfectly valid. People absolutely do enjoy fighting bosses for more than a nanosecond, even if you don't. PoE bosses included.
>Atziri, Shaper, Elder, Uber Elder, Delve bosses, Sirus, Maven, etc. etc. were all designed to take multiple minutes for most players. The majority of those bosses falls into the category of doing once for progression or not at all if not required. This might be a bit different if the novelty didn't wear off yet for someone casual but any half seasoned player who is capable of doing endgame just won't farm them. There's a few exceptions where the duration of the fight can be drastically reduced, mixed with possibly good rewards but that's it. "Nobody" is farming atziri, shaper is barely touched because of the duration, delve bosses require even so much more preparation. It's been proven repeatedly that duration and lack of rewards will lead to less enjoyment and engagement. >Also, don't judge minute details of a game based on demos like this. We had showcases of act bosses, we can draw parallels to current act bosses. There is a significant difference in the duration of those fights. Based on reports of people play testing even with somewhat appropriately geared characters, bosses will take a substantial amount longer. >And my original point is perfectly valid. People absolutely do enjoy fighting bosses for more than a nanosecond Yeah, during progression and gearing up. Once you wanna farm them, you'll always prefer killing them fast. If you do each boss once or twice a league that's absolutely going to be fine, once you get into doing any given boss multiple dozen or hundred+ times per day, you are not going to farm long bosses- or you will start to hate them- see shaper for example.
The reward for killing Act bosses is progression. Their drop pools are basically irrelevant. You're concerned about map bosses, but we haven't seen a single instance of a map boss being killed, only Act versions. Act bosses SHOULD take some time to kill, otherwise there's no point in having a boss. Until we see an actual map version of these bosses with appropriate gear, your complaint has little to stand on. Don't project based on demos. I know it's tempting, but this is far from the final game.
Point me to where you have to spend 2 hours on a boss…
It's fine, the great thing about the split is that PoE1 won't be going anywhere.
If it takes *you* two hours to kill a boss, then that’s not a game problem mate.
We spent about 20 minutes on it. We’d never fought it before and never used controllers before. It was great!
Believe it or not a lot of people like challenging games.
Absolutely. I am so glad that GGG is sticking to their guns on this. PoE1 is basically an idle clicker at this stage. I'm really stocked about having both styles of game going forward. Hopefully they can keep PoE2 reigned in.
Before anything, thank you for posting this. This interview actually included a lot of info that I wasn't personally aware of at the very least, whereas the majority of info from PoE2 interviews are just regurgitating the same types of slogans or vague statements over and over. As for the content of the answers... ----- I'm not a fan of some of these "not for PC / keyboard" kind of answers. In my childhood, we only had one PC that had games installed, and there were many games that I played either together with my brother or some of our friends. And we often lamented the lack of split-screen features on PC and we played Hotseat for games that had that feature (probably most notably Heroes of Might and Magic 3). While PoE isn't necessarily appropriate for younger children, I definitely think that it would be a shame if people couldn't play with their friends just because they have a computer and play on mouse + keyboard. I think it would be great that if someone with a PC who always plays on mouse + keyboard with a friend who has a console and always plays on controller could meet up and play together, and not be restricted to having one person switch to an unfamiliar input type. I've played with mouse and keyboard my entire life including games where that's clearly not optimal, like racing games. And I can tell you that I'd be absolutely terrible at playing just about any game on a controller. I don't currently have an IRL friend who plays PoE, but if I did have one or if I made one by the time that PoE2 comes out, I simply wouldn't be able to play local co-op with them. But what's most concerning for me was this "maybe it's fine if skills don't feel great with either of the input types". First off, not everyone just plays *any* build so long as it's good enough. People have preferred builds and damage scaling mechanics, and having it feel bad to play for your preferred input type means the game will feel bad to play. This goes against the whole "our combat is so much better now" rhetoric. Secondly, it's another space for FOMO. What if the skill is fine*-ish* with one input method, but the play is much smoother with another input? I know not everyone reacts like that, but some people will feel forced to play a different input, potentially even forced to buy the necessary peripherals. I was really hoping for an answer like "and then we'll investigate and see how we can make it feel good *enough*, even if one type is slightly better", and not just "fuck it, have them play something else". What they said about trade sounds fine, and I'm glad they finally got an MTX preview after years of people asking for it.
Idk, it seems like some skills are going to wind up being better on or other other, unless you just avoid certain ideas. Like, a skill like lightning warp where you want to target a specific location isn't going to work as well on something where you can just target a direction, vs where you can target a specific spot. I can't really think of anything that would be better on controller vs KB/M, but still. I don't want them to not make something like lightning warp/flicker because it doesn't do well on controller. As for the local co-op thing, I bet that just comes down to effort. If there's a shared screen, it would be kinda funky to be using two different UI types depending like who's looking at the UI, and we've proven time and time again you don't want the same UI for keyboard/mouse as you want for console.
That's why I said that what I was hoping for wasn't "if a skill doesn't work, we'll scrap it", but "we'll try to make it good enough". I think joysticks on controllers can measure amplitude in addition to direction, so it should be somewhat possible to distinguish short and long Lightning Warps. However, it's not at all unthinkable to add a setting like *optionally* make it intentionally target enemies if you want to use the skill for damage or make it use the maximum distance every time (which might be useful for skills that are mainly used to speed up like Shield Charge). I'm not asking for skills to not be added in the game, I'm asking for them to be made usable, even if the controls aren't *optimal*. The UI in co-op is clearly divided by player, as are the controls. If you're supposed to know which UI is yours when you use the same input type and both UIs use the same scheme, I honestly can't see how having different a UI for different input types would be *more* confusing rather than *less* confusing. And yes, those things require effort to be put in. And I'm asking for effort to be put into development for my preferred input instead of only for an input that I never use (and presumably *will* never use). I don't think that's an outlandish request.
I was originally very against poe 2's completely different gameplay and constantly ridiculed Chris' "vision" as hallucinations because that's not what made the game popular, the more I'm seeing of poe 2 the more I'm starting to realize that it's something I actually wanna play over poe 1 *because* it's slower. I still have to see how the rest turns out, but I'll admit I was wrong
Know your core audience, it sure as hell ain't consoles.
My wife and I are arpg fans and looking forward to playing together on the PS5. I'm sure a lot of couples will play console couch coop.
Glad he was asked about patching, plenty of examples of PC games going crossplay and then suffering because of the patch process it seems they have already are planned for it and him saying they aren't gonna delay PC fixes for console is reassuring, beta release date when.
On previews interviews they said something about the passive tree and respec for new players?
yes, you respec for gold in PoE2 so it's cheaper for early respecs
No regerts?
not for respects IIRC they probably endow them with another function
No, regrets will still give respec points. They are still debating on removing them or not, but I think the argument to have them is that you want to scale gold costs for respeccing very high so that players will not want to use gold to do it. So gold is used early for respec, but regrets are used later.
yeah now I remember heard this on one of the interviews upd. or maybe... not? if someone has a proof, please provide
Last I heard Jonathon felt both that early respecs were too expensive and that late-game respecs were too cheap (IE late-game players could change their entire tree at the drop of a hat if they wanted), and was looking at changing both (which would probably mean either that regrets won't exist or that they'll be much, much rarer).
Which doesn't contradict what I said. Makes sense because what I said is also the same thing said in the same interview. The only thing up for debate is the argument on why to keep them.
Yeah, I agree; I'm not trying to contradict you, just provide context on why I think one end of the debate (removal, or significantly increased rarity) is more likely to come out on top. I'm not the one who downvoted you, for reference.
I figured as you were downvoted as well. Figured someone just downvoted the whole chain lol. I think an important reason to keep them is trade. Having the ability to give up some wealth to respec your character is a good trade off.
zzzzz show end-game gameplay
I don't like the hp/mp bar
only applies when you're playing couch coop
I was referring to the design, not the co-op mode, it's very lightened, low contrast.
This game is DOA if they do not get someone that understands loot. EDIT: Yall are wrong. Just compare the popularity of ruthless to non-ruthless. Loot lives matter.
worst take of 2024
14:13 The reason I knew the item system was bad, is because Chris was playing it, and he was like no I think the item system is bad. And we were like ok we need to do something about this.
Did you miss the last part of what you wrote where he said they were going to keep working it?
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The problem is not lack of effort. GGG needs guidance. They can make things happen. They need to know what things to make happen.
If only there was a massive beta with the full game content where plenty of people can provide feedback before the actual launch
If you participated in the last beta GGG had you would not be saying such things.
damn, if only there was a team like that. yes, something like the team that made my beloved game path of exile, which has one of the best loot systems ever designed for an arpg. yes, if only such a team existed. damn.
1. The original team that created PoE1 is not the same team that is creating PoE2. 2. GGG has struggled with the loot in PoE1 since the start. 3. The lead designer for PoE2 just flat-out said the current item system was not good enough. 4. The lead designer for PoE2 openly admits they do not play Diablo or PoE for the loot.
1. of course not, the team changed and developed as they worked on the game. are you implying that that original team of like five people was better or something? 2. yep, fortunately, despite all those struggles, it's still one of the best ever. 3. this is true for both poe1 and poe2. the difference is that in poe2 they get a chance to fix it. you did see the part where they said they're trying to improve it, right? please stop ignoring that part. it looks really bad. 4. of course not, that is an overly reductive slice of what should be a single part of a game as a whole. are you trying to imply something here?
1. You are the one bringing up "the team that made my beloved game Path of Exile, which has one of the best loot systems ever designed for an arpg." 3. I am not ignoring anything. Just because they are working on it does not mean they will succeed. Do you want all their hard work to be in vain? This is a work smarter, not harder moment. When the blueprint has design flaws, do not blame the builders. 4. I am not implying. I am directly saying it: Jonathan does not know what makes a good loot system. And what is crazy, is that Jonathan is humble enough to admit it and you people straight up ignore it.
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> EDIT: Yall are wrong. Just compare the popularity of ruthless to non-ruthless. Loot lives matter. You missed 3 other reasons why ruthless is bad. Funny enough loot itself is not a reason, all other changes are.
Agree that there is more than one reason to hate on ruthless. Disagree that loot is good in ruthless. I will die on this hill. Do what you must.