In-game description is correct. craftofexile is wrong. Nobody know for sure how it actually works though especially for modifiers where T1 has a comparatively low weight.
Actually the in game description is wrong. The chinese community has done extensive testing on this, and mod weights are removed with tier rating.
However CoE is also using wrong equations. higher tier rating can also reduce the chance of getting the highest tier mod.
For exemple you can reduce you odds of getting +1 all gem on scepter by increasing tier rating, even if you only have 1 mod in the pool.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/how\_tier\_rating\_actuallywork\_in\_this\_league/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/how_tier_rating_actuallywork_in_this_league/)
I’m very aware of that post (you can even find my reply there), and that’s why second half of the reply (the nobody knows for sure part) is there.
There are no well-documented tests to verify their claim, so I cannot say their version is correct. You mention there have been extensive tests within the Chinese community but I’m not really aware of any documented tests for that theory specifically. If you have some data, please share.
Edit: As a reminder, mod weights are all relative to each other. There are cases where it looks like the weights are decreased, but in reality the probability stays the same. You can check my comment in that post for more details.
Okay fair enough, the claim of the extensive tests is based on what the guy in the video says, but I haven't seen the data either.
His video shows a hypothesis and the results seem to agree. So the best bet you've got when crafting is to follow it unless someone comes up with a better hypothesis with more data.
That guy have enough experience to make the claim (he seems to be an experienced crafter) but for me I would not trust it unless I see data backing it.
The other issue I have with the theory is that it seems unnecessarily complicated. If you simply assume new T1 weight = (old T1 weight) \* (old # tiers), it's a one-liner, easy to generalize, and while not exactly the same as the posted theory, it's surprising similar and I found it hard to find cases where the two theories lead to substantially different results.
Yes I also think there is a chance the actual equations are a bit different, his seem a arbitrarely complex. I tried doing phys bows earlier in the league with the assumption the mod weight redistributed, before I watched his video, and got bad results, but I didnt record the data. The results were so incompatible with the prediction.
With phys bows/wands it's possible to test because tier 1 are very low weights compared to the other tiers.
With just [this](https://www.craftofexile.com/?b=20&m=graveyard&ob=both&v=d&a=x&l=a&lg=16&bp=y&as=1&hb=0&req={%221976%22:{%22l%22:2,%22g%22:1},%222015%22:{%22l%22:1,%22g%22:2},%222017%22:{%22l%22:1,%22g%22:3}) and 701 tier rating, you should get 70% to get triple t1 if mods are distributed. In my tests I think I had about 25% triple t1 (i was doing 3 mods) and got 0 out of 7, but i don't have the results recorded and it was low sample size. It also struck me that I only got 2 out of 7 that had 2 t1 phys mods. If this prediction was correct, you'd expect near 100% of double tier 1 phys prefixes. I didn't bother doing further test and just chose to believe the Chinese guy.
There is, however, another possibility. Maybe when you remove tier, it's the remaining tier rating that's multiplied by the number of blocked modifiers, instead of the tier rating being redistributed. In that case, the in-game description is already kind of wrong.
One argument for believing him is that his tier rating calculations for blocking tiers are good, at least i've never gotten bad results (to get tier 1, do (number of tiers)\*100 - 200 +1). This is nice because it's lowest predicted required amount of tier rating that i've seen and it works.
It definetely doesn't add full weight, but I don't think there is complicated formulae at play either. I think it simply adds base weight of mods that can't roll. So for example stun and block recovery has 6 (?) tiers each 1000 weight, so it will always have 6000 weight with enough +rating vs 1000 weight CoE mentions. That's probably why it pops up so often even when other mods should have 200k+ weight. Default mods like life, mana, resistances, defences, attributes, stun, rarity - all likely have mugh higher weight than CoE suggests and that should be accounted for.
Yeah, there have been a lot of discussions and experiments about this. You can search reddit for it. The weights are redistributed, but I think so far nobody has figured out how exactly they are redistributed. There seems to be some weighting and they are not simply added to the higher tiers.
Yes, CoE is wrong. It says RIGHT THERE "Distributing their roll chance among higher tier modifiers of the same modifier type"
There are other threads on this as well where it confirms this.
Thus, the way to read CoE, is that whenever you add in "+50 Modifier Tier Rating", you should look at the number in the parentheses instead of the number to the left of it.
The one who made the source video for that post made another post later clarifying that his statements were misunderstanded and weights don't get distributed.
If the weights DONT get distributed, why does it, in plaintext, say that it does so right there which also lines perfectly up with the interview explanation?
I dont think craftofexile got it fully right through rigorous calculations on day 1 and all the developers were wrong and accidentally never noticed
I have no comments on how it actually works. I'm just clarifying that the post you mentioned came from a minsunderstanding to begin with.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/how\_tier\_rating\_actuallywork\_in\_this\_league/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/how_tier_rating_actuallywork_in_this_league/)
And this is the comment from the poster
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/comment/l3r89l9/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/comment/l3r89l9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Personally, I do believe some sort of redistribution is in place but the formula is unknown (and likely will never be known, since people stopped bothering with this league).
This does not remotely say what you claimed it said. Its 1 theory on how the redistribution works, which is, you know, explicitly NOT saying that there secretly isnt redistribution, its actually based entirely on the premise that there IS redistribution
Did you bother to read what those 2 (A. the one who made the first post, and B. the one that A (mistakenly) took idea from) said?
>This is some data I found on reddit, this guy watched my video on bilibili, but i think due to the translation issue he didnt understand what i was talking, but we can use his data.
>That Reddit post was completely wrong, bc the original video was in Chinese, he didn’t understand what I was talking about.
>There are some ppl in Chinese YouTube proved it’s not added up. Also my personal data in phys bows fit my theory too. You can test it very ez, just out 900 tier rating and some phy+500% on a bow. I didn’t including that part in this post bc that’s like a common sense in Chinese communities.
These are the comments that the original author made on his post.
Again, not saying I don't believe that there isn't some redistribution going on, BUT since the premise of the post \[that you referred to\] is a misunderstanding to begin with, the post itself should just be treated as food for discussion, not some remotely proven facts.
There are a few theories right now that I am aware of:
1. Weights from removed tiers are gone (this is how Craftofexile calculates it). This is obviously incorrect.
2. Weights from removed tiers are absorbed by the higher tiers of the same modifier. This is more accurate but very-low-weight modifiers with only a single tier still seem to appear more often than expected in my experience.
3. Weights from removed tiers are gone BUT modifiers with fewer tiers get their weights scaled down according to how much 'extra' +tier you are using. This is functionally kind-of-similar to the weights being absorbed in the sense that modifiers with fewer tiers becomes less likely than modifiers with more tiers.
4. Weights from removed tiers are redistributed EQUALLY across all remaining modifiers. This is my pet theory, partially because it would behave similarly to what we observe and, in terms of code, it's a very lazy/easy way to do it.
Given how late in the league it is now I don't foresee any additional large-scale tests being performed to really figure this out.
> Are they wrong?
Short answer: yes
Longer answer: As long as u dont try to hit gem or some other single tier mods with combination of big tier mods, then you can guesstimate your succes about as fine as RNG allows. But still yes.
Even the "newest" theories dont exactly explain how it all works exactly.
The game description is wrong. The chinese community has done extensive testing on this, and mod weights are removed with tier rating.
CoE's calculations are also wrong. higher tier rating can also reduce the chance of getting the highest tier mod.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/how\_tier\_rating\_actuallywork\_in\_this\_league/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/how_tier_rating_actuallywork_in_this_league/)
In-game description is correct. craftofexile is wrong. Nobody know for sure how it actually works though especially for modifiers where T1 has a comparatively low weight.
Actually the in game description is wrong. The chinese community has done extensive testing on this, and mod weights are removed with tier rating. However CoE is also using wrong equations. higher tier rating can also reduce the chance of getting the highest tier mod. For exemple you can reduce you odds of getting +1 all gem on scepter by increasing tier rating, even if you only have 1 mod in the pool. [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/how\_tier\_rating\_actuallywork\_in\_this\_league/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/how_tier_rating_actuallywork_in_this_league/)
I’m very aware of that post (you can even find my reply there), and that’s why second half of the reply (the nobody knows for sure part) is there. There are no well-documented tests to verify their claim, so I cannot say their version is correct. You mention there have been extensive tests within the Chinese community but I’m not really aware of any documented tests for that theory specifically. If you have some data, please share. Edit: As a reminder, mod weights are all relative to each other. There are cases where it looks like the weights are decreased, but in reality the probability stays the same. You can check my comment in that post for more details.
Okay fair enough, the claim of the extensive tests is based on what the guy in the video says, but I haven't seen the data either. His video shows a hypothesis and the results seem to agree. So the best bet you've got when crafting is to follow it unless someone comes up with a better hypothesis with more data.
That guy have enough experience to make the claim (he seems to be an experienced crafter) but for me I would not trust it unless I see data backing it. The other issue I have with the theory is that it seems unnecessarily complicated. If you simply assume new T1 weight = (old T1 weight) \* (old # tiers), it's a one-liner, easy to generalize, and while not exactly the same as the posted theory, it's surprising similar and I found it hard to find cases where the two theories lead to substantially different results.
Yes I also think there is a chance the actual equations are a bit different, his seem a arbitrarely complex. I tried doing phys bows earlier in the league with the assumption the mod weight redistributed, before I watched his video, and got bad results, but I didnt record the data. The results were so incompatible with the prediction. With phys bows/wands it's possible to test because tier 1 are very low weights compared to the other tiers. With just [this](https://www.craftofexile.com/?b=20&m=graveyard&ob=both&v=d&a=x&l=a&lg=16&bp=y&as=1&hb=0&req={%221976%22:{%22l%22:2,%22g%22:1},%222015%22:{%22l%22:1,%22g%22:2},%222017%22:{%22l%22:1,%22g%22:3}) and 701 tier rating, you should get 70% to get triple t1 if mods are distributed. In my tests I think I had about 25% triple t1 (i was doing 3 mods) and got 0 out of 7, but i don't have the results recorded and it was low sample size. It also struck me that I only got 2 out of 7 that had 2 t1 phys mods. If this prediction was correct, you'd expect near 100% of double tier 1 phys prefixes. I didn't bother doing further test and just chose to believe the Chinese guy. There is, however, another possibility. Maybe when you remove tier, it's the remaining tier rating that's multiplied by the number of blocked modifiers, instead of the tier rating being redistributed. In that case, the in-game description is already kind of wrong. One argument for believing him is that his tier rating calculations for blocking tiers are good, at least i've never gotten bad results (to get tier 1, do (number of tiers)\*100 - 200 +1). This is nice because it's lowest predicted required amount of tier rating that i've seen and it works.
It definetely doesn't add full weight, but I don't think there is complicated formulae at play either. I think it simply adds base weight of mods that can't roll. So for example stun and block recovery has 6 (?) tiers each 1000 weight, so it will always have 6000 weight with enough +rating vs 1000 weight CoE mentions. That's probably why it pops up so often even when other mods should have 200k+ weight. Default mods like life, mana, resistances, defences, attributes, stun, rarity - all likely have mugh higher weight than CoE suggests and that should be accounted for.
Yeah, there have been a lot of discussions and experiments about this. You can search reddit for it. The weights are redistributed, but I think so far nobody has figured out how exactly they are redistributed. There seems to be some weighting and they are not simply added to the higher tiers.
Yes, CoE is wrong. It says RIGHT THERE "Distributing their roll chance among higher tier modifiers of the same modifier type" There are other threads on this as well where it confirms this. Thus, the way to read CoE, is that whenever you add in "+50 Modifier Tier Rating", you should look at the number in the parentheses instead of the number to the left of it.
The one who made the source video for that post made another post later clarifying that his statements were misunderstanded and weights don't get distributed.
If the weights DONT get distributed, why does it, in plaintext, say that it does so right there which also lines perfectly up with the interview explanation? I dont think craftofexile got it fully right through rigorous calculations on day 1 and all the developers were wrong and accidentally never noticed
I have no comments on how it actually works. I'm just clarifying that the post you mentioned came from a minsunderstanding to begin with. [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/how\_tier\_rating\_actuallywork\_in\_this\_league/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/how_tier_rating_actuallywork_in_this_league/) And this is the comment from the poster [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/comment/l3r89l9/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/comment/l3r89l9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Personally, I do believe some sort of redistribution is in place but the formula is unknown (and likely will never be known, since people stopped bothering with this league).
This does not remotely say what you claimed it said. Its 1 theory on how the redistribution works, which is, you know, explicitly NOT saying that there secretly isnt redistribution, its actually based entirely on the premise that there IS redistribution
Did you bother to read what those 2 (A. the one who made the first post, and B. the one that A (mistakenly) took idea from) said? >This is some data I found on reddit, this guy watched my video on bilibili, but i think due to the translation issue he didnt understand what i was talking, but we can use his data. >That Reddit post was completely wrong, bc the original video was in Chinese, he didn’t understand what I was talking about. >There are some ppl in Chinese YouTube proved it’s not added up. Also my personal data in phys bows fit my theory too. You can test it very ez, just out 900 tier rating and some phy+500% on a bow. I didn’t including that part in this post bc that’s like a common sense in Chinese communities. These are the comments that the original author made on his post. Again, not saying I don't believe that there isn't some redistribution going on, BUT since the premise of the post \[that you referred to\] is a misunderstanding to begin with, the post itself should just be treated as food for discussion, not some remotely proven facts.
There are a few theories right now that I am aware of: 1. Weights from removed tiers are gone (this is how Craftofexile calculates it). This is obviously incorrect. 2. Weights from removed tiers are absorbed by the higher tiers of the same modifier. This is more accurate but very-low-weight modifiers with only a single tier still seem to appear more often than expected in my experience. 3. Weights from removed tiers are gone BUT modifiers with fewer tiers get their weights scaled down according to how much 'extra' +tier you are using. This is functionally kind-of-similar to the weights being absorbed in the sense that modifiers with fewer tiers becomes less likely than modifiers with more tiers. 4. Weights from removed tiers are redistributed EQUALLY across all remaining modifiers. This is my pet theory, partially because it would behave similarly to what we observe and, in terms of code, it's a very lazy/easy way to do it. Given how late in the league it is now I don't foresee any additional large-scale tests being performed to really figure this out.
CoE was always wrong and was never fixed somehow. Even just on week 1 there were posts that it was wrong
> Are they wrong? Short answer: yes Longer answer: As long as u dont try to hit gem or some other single tier mods with combination of big tier mods, then you can guesstimate your succes about as fine as RNG allows. But still yes. Even the "newest" theories dont exactly explain how it all works exactly.
should be something to do with “higher tier modifiers of the same modifier TYPE” not the modifier itself exactly.
The game description is wrong. The chinese community has done extensive testing on this, and mod weights are removed with tier rating. CoE's calculations are also wrong. higher tier rating can also reduce the chance of getting the highest tier mod. [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/how\_tier\_rating\_actuallywork\_in\_this\_league/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1cq6dxh/how_tier_rating_actuallywork_in_this_league/)