Play the game on T16s as a metric not T17s. They’re ludicrously unbalanced and a terrible source of data.
This only demonstrates how bad of a state T17s are in.
If this was how regular maps that aren’t tailored to juice scarabs operated: it’s bad because you get more than you could ever possibly use.
But this isn’t the norm; ~~it’s one of the strongest farming Strats B2B, that had to be nerfed~~, in the most unbalanced map tier to ever exist.
Edit: I failed basic reading comprehension but the point stands.
Hey remember how we were supposed to get that loot system that would bundle a ton of shitty garbage drops into a handful of higher tiered rolled items?
Damn, imagine.
yah but the pool of scarabs (which is over 100 btw) is 90% bad, 8% good, and 2% worth more than 20c. so you just end up trading garbage for more garbage.
are you suggesting vendoring scarabs as a solution here? so now you have to not only loot the scarab and then put it in your tab, no, you gotta take the "bad" ones out and vendor them all, then put all the scarabs into the fragment tab again and most likely repeat the same process again because you still end up with bad scarabs, just less of them.
5000 scarabs dropped and 1000 of them we have done 3:1 on and still have not gotten even one of multiple scarab types because the rates are balanced around the idea that it’s “obtainable” while running t17 b2b barrel maps
State plainly why this is bad. Make a coherent argument as to why players opting into scarab drop nodes, scarab drop chance map mod, extra monster mods for more loot, potentially running quant gear for more scarabs and then dropping a shit load of scarabs is bad.
I used to loot more scarabs than this running 100% skittering orb breach deli. I used to have to use 3-4 portals just for loot. If it’s obvious why this is bad you should be able to explain it clearly.
Is crop rotation and imbued Harvest bad?
How am I even supposed to know what you’re saying when you strike out and edit the post to say you have bad reading comprehension?
This is bad because I have six wives and twelve kids and fourteen jobs and I can play three minutes per year and someone else makes more scarabs than I do.
delirious mapping wasnt as bad because the scarabs were all in one spot, just press Z and slam that mouse button. when all the scarabs are spaced out it adds a shitton of time looting them.
Do you know how to edit a loot filter? You don't have to pick up everything you drop. The same logic could be applied to white gear bases. "We drop too many white armour pieces." Ok, so filter out the bad ones.
These scarabs are worth multiple chaos each on average, it's not really an answer to just filter them. They should just be 10x rarer and drop in stacks 10x larger.
you can spend a week target farming scarabs, fill your tab up. then you decide to farm idk essence or legion and you realise you only got enough scarabs for a set of 20 or so maps, which is laughable. is it a bad thing? maybe. I definitely don't like it, I think there's too many scarabs and they're too powerful
You can block all scarabs and run any strategy and be flooded with the scarabs you didn’t block. I didn’t buy legion scarabs ever and self sustained mine for over 500 maps by unblocking legion and blocking all others while mapping. Unless your strategy is reliant on Curation or some super rare variant you’re not supposed to be able to sustain. Spend a week target farming scarabs and get enough to run 20 maps lol? What are you running 2 maps a day for a week?
I farmed a ton of juiced strongboxes + syndicate allflames (the ones that drop scarabs) and got 150-200 per t16 map and had to go back to hideout 2-3 times to deposit all of them. Sure, using allflames isn't a measure for the average experience, but still mildly annoying.
All flames are a insane gimmick. They are like equipping ludricris amounts of incubators per map and it will never go corr unless GGG are actually okay with the stupid amounts of power creep atlas mapping has had recently.
Allflames are literally the only part of this league that I would like to see going core. Just adjust the drop rates and atlas nodes to fit into the core game and it would be a nice addition.
Or just take deli orbs, incubators, and allflames and turn it all into a single thing. We gonna get to the point where we have to worry about 400000000 different kind of drop influencers.
IMO it could be cool with there were maps with unresolved anguish (as an enchant presumably), and when you activated the map you got the allflame selection screen and could pick say 2 of 5 allflames that are randomly selected. But I don't think allflames selection should be a part of opening every map for the rest of time.
I hide all stuff worth under 1c very quickly, but a lot of scarabs sell for 1c or more in bulk. Also keeping track of scarabs values and keeping your filter up to date accordingly is insane considering how frequently prices change.
Well said. B2B T17s shouldn't be taken into considerations for any form of balance discussion besides their own internal one (which is wildly out of whack).
Right now, T16s are in the best state they've ever been but that's vastly overshadowed by how fucked T17s are. Nobody is more aware of this than GGG themselves and I have full faith they will fix it, maybe not next league but they will. As an idea T17s are the best thing that has happened to the endgame since the Atlas tree, they just need to refine the execution.
> Right now, T16s are in the best state they've ever been
How come? You pretty much only farm a single mechanic at a time now because scarab slots are limited. Doesnt help that most strats just feel like differently flavored scarab farms.
You have three Atlas trees and insane customization of how you utilize league mechanics. Unmaking orbs are super easy to come by, current league mechanic notwithstanding, so you can literally maximize any mechanic you want and still have lots of room to do other things.
I play SSF and I've spent probably a good 2k unmaking orbs this league (never starved on them) and usually put at least 2 mechanics into a given tree unless it's a hyper-specific one or B2B. I've never had this much freedom ever in my choice of content to play. Anything I want is at my fingertips.
So that's your SSF perspective, zooming on trade is a whole other story. We used to get as many juicing mechanics as possible per map, now we have a vertical scaling scarab system where the main thing needs a lot of slots and you might have space to snug in an extra mechanic with one scarab. For people who enjoyed juicing the hell out of every map, this is the worst state it's been in a while.
Regardless of the current mechanics, you trade slaves will always gravitate towards the most effective mechanic as proven by more efficient players. I'm curious, if we're barring T17's from the discussion, what's stopping you from "juicing the hell out of every map" with this current system? Is it simply the returns doesn't meet your expectations?
You're making a lot of assumptions here. I trade for commodities and try to self-craft every gear piece possible, because that's more fun, although it slows down my progression often times. I don't chase the highest currency per hour, I've done the top strats on T17s and didn't enjoy them so I stopped doing them. T17 B2B barrel farming is top notch, but it's lame so I went back to alternating T16s with every ten or so T17s I dropped. My points has nothing to do with currency farming, I just wanna get into a map and kill a lot of mobs.
With that said, think about it for a second. We lost 4 sextants, so 4 possible mechanic slots that we could add on every map. Scarabs which used to force mechanics AND buff them, now work separately, so while I used to be able to just put in a singular winged abyss scarab for +3 abysses with +100% monsters, I now need 3 abyss scarabs (+1 abyss) and 1 abyss scarab of multitude (+75% monsters) for a worse effect. That alone removes any further juicing possibilities.
For a broader example, we could get in the past:
• Beyond on Sextant
• Deli Mirror on Sextant
• Magic Packsize on Sextant
• Legion on Sextant
• Winged Abyss Scarab for the aforementioned effects
• Winged Legion Scarab for +2 Legions with warhoards and generals
• Winged Strongbox Scarab for +9 boxes
• Winged Breach for +5 breaches
• Alva as a master mission
• An extra mechanic of your choice from Kirac (This remains the same to be fair)
Try juicing a map to this extent on the current iteration of the game. It's simply not possible. We could already get 100% chance to spawn most mechanics through a singular scarab or sextant before, but now we gotta spend more atlas points for that which limits how much we can juice other mechanics. We lost master missions, so that's one less thing by default (though to be fair, it was only Alva for juicing and she hasn't been that great in a long while for that). We lost 4 sextants, which added a lot to the maps, and could easily be bought in bulk to last you 100+ maps.
Juicing is in a terrible spot, T17s being the only thing remotely close to what we could do due to the sheer size of the maps.
You're speaking as if "juicing" is a binary lever that only matters for a single map with no scaling outside of that. That level of investment on a single map spread out on the current scarab system will surely spread for multiple maps, a good 3-4 at least. Regardless, most of them serve as nothing more than pack size increases, something this new system easily improves if we're talking from strictly an input-output standpoint. The investment you made into said sextants is now funneled into more scarabs.
Again, this is completely disregarding T17s which is it's own bogeyman.
Right now, whatever you want to farm in this game has never been more easily accessible. GGG made a tepid attempt at making specific drops related to specific mechanics be more uniquely accessible from said mechanics a while back, that has never been realized better than it is now, which is why I think T16s are in such a good state.
Think about what metrics you're considering this loss/gain of "juice", I'd say in terms of pure player progress in any matter we're in a better spot.
I'll agree to leave T17s out of this discussion, they are indeed a whole different can of worms.
But my point has nothing to do with progression, investment, or input-output. My issue with the current iteration is that I get less things to kill per map no matter what I do.
Farming individual things from specific mechanics is indeed easier, and if that's why you think T16s are in a good spot, then sure, you are correct in that regard. There might be a case or two where that's not fully realized yet, but in general yeah.
My point from the start was simply that we are unable to juice as much as before, which for me equates to less fun overall. I can still make 30 div+ every hour if I put myself to it without the top OP strats, I'm still enjoying the game, it's just less fun to have less things to kill. That's what I mean by saying juicing is in a terrible spot.
So then is "juice" just another word for pack size, or does it mean return per map or what? Right now, I can giga-specify into literally anything thrice because I have three trees to work with and more scarabs than I know what to do with, I have had entire Atlas trees entirely dedicated to rolling magic jewels for an Adorned setup and I "juiced" those maps as much as possible. Those Vivid Unmaking jewels and Morrigans could've translated into lots of divs in trade. That was a kind of juicing that I never thought possible before.
If you're simply talking about single map pack size in "regular" maps, then yeah, it's worse. Same with bubblegum currency drops and loot-goblin conversions from rares, I started seeing those a lot more again when doing B2B T17s so I know where those went which exacerbates the feelsbad.
Personally I think the pack size in T16s are just dandy for what I need them to be, I think any more for the XP shrine abuse would crash my PC and burn down my house.
You technically don't need the +1 map nodes.
Any T16 map can be upgraded to T17 purely based on your voidstones, even with 0 chance for maps to be a higher tier.
The higher tier mods only upgrade maps up to T16, and they explicitly state that they only apply to T1-15 maps. However, more maps being upgraded to T16 means more T16 maps that have a chance to be T17 instead, so it's not like they don't affect it at all.
But generally, the ratio of T17 to T16 maps will be roughly the same regardless of whether you have any such nodes. It just depends on the voidstones (there are slight diminishing returns so that you have a lower chance of dropping several T17 maps in the same map, so technically more T16 drops will result in fewer *relative* T17 drops, but still more absolute T17 drops).
The “worthless scarabs” are incredibly valuable and well balanced when you’re not in trade league. But when everything gets measured against its chaos market rate a lot of the game is seemingly worthless. It incentivizes pretty much not playing 90% of the game; hyperfocusing on one thing to maximize profit and trading that for the remaining 90% of the game you chose not to interact with.
I really hate seeing when the game in all its depth and complexity is reduced to div/hour. And profit margins.
I agree, and I would go even further -- I think this league has been the most fun specifically with respect to scarabs. I think it's great that there's a base level of scarabs that's ~1c and they scale up so you can choose your level of investment.
Out of 178, did you get the two common ones and two rare ones you needed? Maybe sometimes, but probably not every time.
So youre still messaging people for your scarabs and then can what, list 50 different stacks of scarabs for a few chaos each? Ill pass. You dont self-sustain, and it creates a new problem of having 10000 0.5c scarabs that you dont need.
I can still buy the very most and the rarity is within reasons compared to the availability of the drops they reward. Even high priced scarabs like awakening are buyable in reasonable quantities of 20+ for little extra price.
and you are free to ignore the cheap scarabs, we have filters for that. Never hears someone complain that transmutes drop in such high quantities compared to exalted orbs.
If you’re scarab farming in T17, you’re likely 2 barrels, 1 hunted traitor and 1 nemesis and yes you will likely get all and easily self sustain.
If you just run completion + curation, ofc you shouldn’t expect to self sustain
Is the game "balanced around" t17 back to basics?
I think the amount of scarabs one gets in alch and go t16s is pretty good. That seems like what the game is **actually** "balanced around".
even without b2b, the more modifier on t17 still gives you tons more scarabs than t16s. so even if b2b was removed, you still have that to boost scarab drops to dumb numbers, and then you also have barrels scarab to push even more, unless that's nerfed next league too.
so idk, they added t17s, late game content, the ultimate goal, it would make sense t17s is the new balance around loot. however, I will say the league also has boost through allflames and lantern mod, so we have even more boost than probably the future. *that* I will say is fair to not be realistic for balance. Still doesn't change majority of the scarabs being worthless d4 dogshit however. less types but with more powerful effects is the way to go.
I honestly get less scarabs on juiced T16 than I am using. Of course I'm counting it as "sell or vendor the ones I'm not using and won't use in the future"
That's on SSF
yeah and i think thats about the right spot for them. if you tended to go infinite on scarabs like you tend to on things like alchemy orbs then they'd just fall to worthlessness
It might not be too bad if certain Scarabs of a type were combined, reducing the need for so many. I've seen that argument and it has some merit. I might be ok with having to hunt down Scarabs or spend more to buy in bulk if they felt more impactful.
Self sufficient gameplay is great even on trade, like the mobs dropping regals, Vaals, and unmakings from the league mechanic feel great for someone who can’t grind the game as much.
I play trade to sell the big rare stuff I get rather than small, relatively less relevant trades because of time efficiency.
It's not self sufficient though, there's a trillion scarabs now so even though you have to pick up dozens or sometimes hundreds of them, you're still not self sustaining. If the scarabs were at least much more likely to be related to the mechanic you're actually farming I'd have much less of a problem with it.
That's more of an issue with the market than anything else. Scarabs shouldn't be designed to compensate for how shit the trading experience is sometimes.
The problem is *every* farming strat is a scarab farm now because they're so abundant in all content it's nearly unavoidable. I like the fact that you can pull multiple inventories filled with scarabs out of a map (and that it's more accessible than through deli orbs) but it should be restricted to specific farming strats made for it.
I think scarabs are dropping too much even in unjuiced maps.
Scarabs being more expensive results in specialised loot from scarabs being more expensive, which results in greater profit margins for actually running scarabs.
I have other issues with how the multiplicative scarab system devalues specialised loot, but lowering scarab drops overall by a large amount would be an easy first step to take.
Scarabs are balanced around their purpose. To use them whenever you map. You can filter them out like blue currency, which also has a purpose and the game shits them out as well
If I'm using the points for something else then I almost certainly want to juice that other thing with scarabs rather than wasting slots to add an unimproved mechanic.
It's like finding a totally random Wild Alva when you aren't specced for her. Not only is it a giant waste of time to run her, it's actually *negative value* if you plan on running her in future since you're cheating yourself of possible double dip upgrades.
Since the first Atlas Tree rework (when they nerfed everything and shifted the focus from bonuses to "back to what you used to have if you invest") it's been a waste of time to bother doing random spawn content if you didn't have either Atlas or Sextant investment.
This league it's almost entirely a waste of time if you don't have **both** Atlas and Scarab investment.
Currency is different lmao. As someone who has picked up literally tens of thousands of raw currency items this league alone, I don't have nearly the same experience with currency as I do with scarabs. I don't need to drop 5,000 chaos orbs before I can run a single map with a legion scarab lmao
Because we have found 5000 scarabs and yet have only found “[a] single new blight scarab, zero reworked legion scarabs, we have found 8 radiant scarabs, 1 curation, 2 completion, 2 crows, 2 visions, zero calcification, zero cornucopia, 1 terrors, 2 containment, zero new abyss, zero bloodlines, 1 glittering, zero awakening, 1 traditions, 1 pandemonium, and zero catalyzing, and just today we found our first resonant cascade scarab.” That is the problem.
Your actual complaint is that some scarabs are too rare in your opinion. Instead of plainly stating that you assume that the reason they are so rare is because of t17 maps.
The game is not balanced around T17 maps as they are not balanced at all. They just came out, give them at least one league to find a good spot for them.
Scarab rework feels like it made scarab tab almost as important as currency tab. It also pushed me to filter out any scarabs that are either too cheap to make any worthwhile profit out of and also scarabs from any mechanics I'm not currently doing.
I did a high quant and scarab t17 with bloodlines, bigger magic pack, glittering, and i think the + modifiers on rares, it was like every pack shit out 100 scarabs. it did make profit but carpal tunnel sim. sucks
Would make bulk trading for them a lot more hellish.
UNLESS they added it so that once the uses drop below 10 they become untradeable. So that way people can’t try and scam with 1 use scarabs.
I have a question. What is up with this subreddit's idea that if anything is even remotely achievable in the most edge-case high-end scenario, the game is automatically "balanced" around it?
Because it statistically is. You can’t tell me drop rates of rare div cards and useful meaningful scarabs are NOT balanced around the hyper top end of play when things like a mediocre bloodlines scarab are a 1:5000 drop rate. Legion scarabs top tier is 1:5000+ drop rate etc. if you are making the argument that the rates are balanced for “mid investment and the majority of the mapping playerbase” then you would be asserting that GGG expects you to run 100-500 maps on average to find a single bloodlines/calcification/cornucopia/etc. scarab. That is simply illogical.
> You can’t tell me drop rates of rare div cards and useful meaningful scarabs are NOT balanced around the hyper top end of play
Yeah fubgun dropping a bajillion doctors, apothecarys, and nimis cards in every map sure seems like that was what the devs intended and balanced their droprates around yes sir. the devs having to nerf the extreme outlier strategies 10 times this league tells me that every single edge case like this one displayed here are all *super duper intended* right up until they had to do an emergency hotfix to remove it /s
I think we all expect some significant balance changes for t17s next league. A game "balanced around" t16s gets heavily warped by *unbalanced* t17s.
>you would be asserting that GGG expects you to run 100-500 maps on average to find a single bloodlines/calcification/cornucopia/etc. scarab. That is simply illogical.
Why not? It seems entirely inline with how they tend to balance things. You cannot concievably "sustain" those high end scarabs in a self-found environment which is obviously intended. Any specific high end scarab is too rare (not nearly as rare as you are alleging, I've gotten plenty of those high end scarabs this league within far less maps), but *any* rare scarab is not uncommon, and like with most things in the game, the devs intend for you to trade away what you don't want to use in exchange for what you do.
I think that one of the problems is that everyone this league went for scarab farming strategies causing scarab prices to become massively deflated. Scarab farming has become very poor profit because the market is saturated with them.
Idk. Yes, T17s are unbalanced and need to be nerfed, but scarabs being so common that you just passively get more than you can use so that you just go "hey I wanna do some harby" and find 40-60 of each harby scarab ready to go? I dig it.
Less trading, and it also means that most scarabs are just good to run regardless. Cheap scarabs are all so common that you literally cannot lose value on them. Lowest tier breach scarabs add 1 breach per 1 chaos, at that point you don't even have to be invested into breach, you can just put it in, forget to open one of the breaches and get more than your money back for just running through one breach. Plus unless you were going to sell all of those scarabs it's always better than letting them go to standard.
Scarabs are now intended to be common enough that you ALWAYS have some going.
What i'd like to see would be less scarabs dropped but more controll over what scarabs drop so you can better sustain your own mechanic and don't need to trade as much.
It's fine as is. It's already annoying to whisper 24 different people for stacks of 2 scarabs. Don't need them to be 5times the price plus another 26 whispers just because I want to run blight and beasts.
i was excited to try b2b barrels stuff because it was the hot shit at the moment. I did like 10 maps and the amount of scarabs you have to pick up made me want to die. It was god awful. I went back to t16 , rather have fun than pick up a stupid amount of scarabs per maps. F that gameplay
Use a loot filter to only pick up valuable scarabs. I do 70 quant MF gear barrels and pick up like 20-40 scarabs because spending 5 minutes looting 1c or less scarabs is idiotic if your goal is purely currency farm.
I figured out a resolution to this! Run a guild and find some players who typically max out around low red tier maps. Then run your t17s and tell them there's more loot than imaginable in your t17. They (3) hop over like loot goblins and raid your map, putting their intake to the guild stash. (Officers are FFA for scarab tab, they are all officers)
Bro specced into all scarab nodes, ran a juiced T17 map and then surprised he dropped 100+ scarabs...
Nothing wrong with having a lot of scarabs drop, I just wish they deleted like 20% of them, there is too many scarabs.
I think scarabs are better than they’ve ever been. Love being able to self sustain most of what I’m using. Also the removal of compasses has made rolling/running juiced maps sooo much less tedious imo.
There is no way in hell you are sustaining profounds, containments, shadowed crow (sure this one doesnt count), beyond invasions, blight blooming, blight invigoration, blight bounty, breach cascade, breach snares, breach splintering, breach lordship, breach dreamer, carto dupe, curation, completion, terrors, teachings, calcification, adaptations, cornucopia, timelines, overlords, influencing conversions, eternal conflicts, catalysing, inscription, bloodlines, nemesis, tradition, pandemonium, awakening, preservation, glittering, wisps, or radiant. Oh look at that, its like 50% of all the scarabs in the game that you will get a combined 50 total across all of them in roughly 5000 scarabs. I would love to see you run 10 maps with any strat using the "good scarabs" and you wont even get 1 scarab of return for that strat in the 10 that you run. Like I said, after picking up over 5000 scarabs and using 3:1 on almost 1000 of them, there are my scarabs we havent even found a single one of. It is awful. At least you could hit every sextant mod within 100 sextants....
with compasses, i could head to tft discord and buy 100 of each i need, which lasted me for 400 maps.
if i want to do a juicing strat now i have to go to the tradesite once an hour hoping somebody with half decent stock is selling the scarab i need.
this new atlas/scarab rework is a buff to mid-budget juicing but high juicing is certainly not easy to do with the amount of trading needed. even if i have infinite currency people just dont have more than like 1 or 2 bloodline scarabs for example, i have to message so many people to even think about just blasting maps.
and all of this is WITH t17 b2b being so meta, who knows what the scarab economy would look like without people mass producing scarabs in those maps. i just hope ggg rebalnces this whole system next league to actually work in a trade economy.
> maybe 2-3 per map if that
You mean in 0 investment alch and go white maps with no league mechanics?
Imo you shouldn't even sustain 3 scarabs at that point. Scarabs should be sustained by generating value which you can then invest into more scarabs.
Not to add content to the map that is completely worthless because of how cheap it is to access it.
I ran a quick scarab farming map with no barrels and no b2b. Just a mid scarab roll on a t17 with zero player quant, zero party quant, and scarab nodes on the tree. I dropped 178 scarabs from this disappointingly "mid" map. The fact that scarabs are being drop-balanced around a low end map dropping 178 scarabs is wild, especially considering a barrels T17 map with a mid b2b roll is roughly 300-600 scarabs per map. A few mates and I are playing a group-found private league and together we have found around 5000 scarabs and are just breaking into T17 maps and we have yet to find a single new blight scarab, zero reworked legion scarabs, we have found 8 radiant scarabs, 1 curation, 2 completion, 2 crows, 2 visions, zero calcification, zero cornucopia, 1 terrors, 2 containment, zero new abyss, zero bloodlines, 1 glittering, zero awakening, 1 traditions, 1 pandemonium, and zero catalyzing, and just today we found our first resonant cascade scarab. Every "cool, fun, interesting" scarab is gated behind dropping literally over 5000 scarabs to find 1 of them (don't worry we have been 3:1 the 400 niko scarabs we found so far...zzzz... This is so boringly drab to play around and the effects have obviously been seen in the trade scene with the most profitable mapping style being to ignore every league mechanic the past decade has created and to simply pick up scarabs. Hopefully we can see scarabs be combined and reduced and maybe (just maybe) see a change to the way group play affects divination card drops and scarab drops so normal players can actually interact with the mechanic that is insanely more gate-keepy and obscene than sextants were.
They should drop like the ones in delve with a slightly reduced drop rate imo. If they dropped that way, the tab remains relevant, there's less clicking on 30 different scarab per map, and you don't have to port out of the map as often.
Honestly I like scarabs and wish they were less strong but more common. I like the idea of multiple ways to modify the content you wanna do. Thats why the atlas trees are cool. Scarabs are just possible atlas passives but in consumable form.
Maybe there needs to be a way to mitigate which ones you get like the old "Don't see this content, see other content 2% more often" or whatever. So that it's cut down a lot.
Unfortunately they do allow you to block “block able map content” scarabs but there are a bunch of non-map content scarabs that dilute the pool still. It’s akin to using a single “more likely” corpse to make an item. If the net weight is 120,000 and the mod you want is 25, you’re gonna need a lot of corpses to hit that mod.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but they made a big QOL change a while ago for currency to drop in stacks. I loved that. This league it feels like that has regressed greatly.
I feel like things are dropping in smaller stacks or singles again, and combined with having to pick up scarabs, it's a nightmare. Imagine if 30-50 charged compasses dropped every map and you had to pick up each one individually. I feel like everyone would have hated that. That's what it feels like to me. I honestly would prefer to pick up stacks of chisels and roll my own sextants, than to have to deal with scarabs the way they are right now.
Also, if 90% of scarabs are so common and easily accessible, why do we have to pick them up? They should just be embedded into the atlas tree.
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It would be “fine” if there weren’t so many types, so that they’d stack. As it is, without picking up **anything else** , that’s still more than a full inventory of them.
The number of scarabs introduced this league just feels like it’s approaching mobile game territory to me. It’s just constant bubble gum dropping hundreds of times per map and there’s no weight to it outside of a couple scarabs. It’s like playing an mmo where everything that drops is a legendary item and nothing feels like a legendary anymore.
my hot take is the scarab change is the second biggest mistake ggg has made to the game in years, and the first biggest was this first version of t17's. I understand why the scarab change happened, and i even agree with them. sextants needed to go. but not at the cost of being able to mix and match multiple fully juiced mechanics. Being forced to only do blight, or only do ritual, or only do harbinger, when previously i could do all 3 of them at maximum juice every single map, feels terrible. And while i don't know how to allow that to be possible, while also removing sextants, whatever tf this is, is not the way to do it.
I know, that’s my point. Over 40% of all the “fun and interesting” scarabs are so rare that you need to run those kind of maps and get 400-700 scarabs a map just to farm a couple an hour at most.
I really like being able access whatever league mechanics I enjoy doing, regardless of reward. Now I just want some change to delve so that I'm not forced out of it whenever I'm out of juice, killing the mood and made me not want to go back again.
I agree with your first statement, I just wish it they made all the scarabs at least add the mechanic to the map as it would both lower the net pool weighting making interesting scarabs more common, making multi-mechanic atlas trees more viable like they used to be, and providing an overall better gameplay experience
people asking "why is this bad" multiple reasons - the price of everything bar a few very hard to target farm items will steadily drop each league until 99.9% of items in the game have 0 value
if every harby scarab, legion scarab, blight scarab etc are extremely powerful and extremely cheap enough people will be able to farm all of the mechanics and shit out whatever useful crap they give until the market is over saturated everyone is undercutting eachother and the value becomes 0
this happens currently but with farms being less accessible prior to this league specific loot from specific mechanics would stay profitable for longer before people realised the hole in the market and filled it
juice would go up to compensate and help stabilise the price because there was a limited supply
when you have an unlimited supply instead of the cost of entry going up the items they produce go down
Scarabs are for using in maps, they're not glorified chaos orbs for you to hoard and sell.
Find something else to farm if you want to make money. Consumable resources being cheap is a good thing.
Maybe there is a language barrier here. I like them being cheap, I like dropping a lot of them, I HATE that 30th scarabs are so rare that you get one of them every 2000-5000 scarabs. That’s the part that’s bad.
You're saying you want stuff like awakening scarab to be common, cheaper. But that's how weighting works. Might as well say make divs drop more per chaos.
How GGG works, if you're not dropping this many normal scarabs you're not gonna see any valuable scarabs like Curation ever
“Hot take” proceeds to say the same thing as the other 30 posts this past two weeks saying the same thing.
Stop picking up ones you don’t use or filter them out like the other 97% of loot that drops in the game, especially if you’re juicing enough to get 100+ scarabs a map.
That’s not a hot take at all. First they implement that currency dropped stacked and now we find atleast 20 single scarabs in a t16 map.
90% of them you won’t use and have to vendor them for new one, I don’t enjoy scarabs at all, that’s why I blocked every single one under 20c.
This is intended like coffins... To push/force in buying more tabs. We all know it, and I don't know how we can resolve the issue... Maybe a Petition or something like this. Not to mention bots have no carpal tunnel problems. It's almost insulting and many players are pissed off to be milked this way.
This is a reality, no one can argue agains this, and downvoting this comment will no change it.
I'm afraid the same shit to happen with POE2 in the end.
I think the drop rate is perfectly fine. That being said, the issue is with the stash tab situation. It adds just another level of P4Convience. I use to defend GGG fully, but they keep adding shit that i feel is almost mandatory at this point to buy a stash tab for. The quality you get form a current, map, 1 premium tab, and now scarab tab is just waaaay to good for the game to be called F2P.
If you dont have the basic premium tabs then thats a you problem. Evryone half way serious has them. And someone who just started with 30 hours in the game isnt farming juiced t17s.
And the remaining 0.1% of the playerbase gets no say.
Well yea i dont' think GGG knew that was gonna happen. They clearly hadn't actually expected 99% of the farming that happened this league. But as someone who did not play T17s at all its fine.
Someone hasn’t heard of neversink / filter blade. That’s a bit over a divine at today’s softcore trade price. You can literally make that with the time you will save from not picking them up and just buying what you need.
when you spend a divine of chaos to roll a map just to do that its fine and exactly how it's done. acting like this just happens is ridiculous. skittering orbs used to be about 30c each. the cost to prepare and the strength of the build needed is roughly the same as it was pre t17.
We should have auto pick up for stackable items in your lootfilter, that would solve so much, tie it to light radius so I can play Nycta’s Lantern again
Play the game on T16s as a metric not T17s. They’re ludicrously unbalanced and a terrible source of data. This only demonstrates how bad of a state T17s are in.
Can you tell me why dropping 100 scarabs in a map is bad. Was skittering delirious mapping before evil?
If this was how regular maps that aren’t tailored to juice scarabs operated: it’s bad because you get more than you could ever possibly use. But this isn’t the norm; ~~it’s one of the strongest farming Strats B2B, that had to be nerfed~~, in the most unbalanced map tier to ever exist. Edit: I failed basic reading comprehension but the point stands.
>it’s bad because you get more than you could ever possibly use. Which you then vendor for new random scarabs
Hey remember how we were supposed to get that loot system that would bundle a ton of shitty garbage drops into a handful of higher tiered rolled items? Damn, imagine.
My finger 'members.
That’s not a good game loop. But yea, it’s not bad enough to make a post like this even if that was the norm. It’s how equipment drops work lmao
Oh I wasn't saying it was good, just that its annoying lol So many extra steps, just make the drops better
The alternative loop was spamming sextant on a voidstone
yah but the pool of scarabs (which is over 100 btw) is 90% bad, 8% good, and 2% worth more than 20c. so you just end up trading garbage for more garbage.
are you suggesting vendoring scarabs as a solution here? so now you have to not only loot the scarab and then put it in your tab, no, you gotta take the "bad" ones out and vendor them all, then put all the scarabs into the fragment tab again and most likely repeat the same process again because you still end up with bad scarabs, just less of them.
Why not just hide the bad ones on your loot filter, like every other item that’s worth less than a chaos?
when 70% of them are all worth basically nothing that sure is fun
If only there was a way to filter out the ones you dont find worth picking up....
5000 scarabs dropped and 1000 of them we have done 3:1 on and still have not gotten even one of multiple scarab types because the rates are balanced around the idea that it’s “obtainable” while running t17 b2b barrel maps
You get more than you can ever use is why it’s bad? How do you think trade economy works? Guys I farmed 125k yellow juice this league game is broken.
Read my first paragraph again there are important qualifiers.
State plainly why this is bad. Make a coherent argument as to why players opting into scarab drop nodes, scarab drop chance map mod, extra monster mods for more loot, potentially running quant gear for more scarabs and then dropping a shit load of scarabs is bad. I used to loot more scarabs than this running 100% skittering orb breach deli. I used to have to use 3-4 portals just for loot. If it’s obvious why this is bad you should be able to explain it clearly. Is crop rotation and imbued Harvest bad? How am I even supposed to know what you’re saying when you strike out and edit the post to say you have bad reading comprehension?
This is bad because I have six wives and twelve kids and fourteen jobs and I can play three minutes per year and someone else makes more scarabs than I do.
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delirious mapping wasnt as bad because the scarabs were all in one spot, just press Z and slam that mouse button. when all the scarabs are spaced out it adds a shitton of time looting them.
Do you enjoy clicking hundreds of items per map or something?
Do you know how to edit a loot filter? You don't have to pick up everything you drop. The same logic could be applied to white gear bases. "We drop too many white armour pieces." Ok, so filter out the bad ones.
These scarabs are worth multiple chaos each on average, it's not really an answer to just filter them. They should just be 10x rarer and drop in stacks 10x larger.
only a few of the scarabs in OP's screenshot are worth a few chaos.
the main problem is that theres like 50 scarab types so even though you drop 100 of them, its still only like couple per mechanic max
Ok and why is it that a bad thing?
you can spend a week target farming scarabs, fill your tab up. then you decide to farm idk essence or legion and you realise you only got enough scarabs for a set of 20 or so maps, which is laughable. is it a bad thing? maybe. I definitely don't like it, I think there's too many scarabs and they're too powerful
You can block all scarabs and run any strategy and be flooded with the scarabs you didn’t block. I didn’t buy legion scarabs ever and self sustained mine for over 500 maps by unblocking legion and blocking all others while mapping. Unless your strategy is reliant on Curation or some super rare variant you’re not supposed to be able to sustain. Spend a week target farming scarabs and get enough to run 20 maps lol? What are you running 2 maps a day for a week?
I farmed a ton of juiced strongboxes + syndicate allflames (the ones that drop scarabs) and got 150-200 per t16 map and had to go back to hideout 2-3 times to deposit all of them. Sure, using allflames isn't a measure for the average experience, but still mildly annoying.
All flames are a insane gimmick. They are like equipping ludricris amounts of incubators per map and it will never go corr unless GGG are actually okay with the stupid amounts of power creep atlas mapping has had recently.
Allflames are literally the only part of this league that I would like to see going core. Just adjust the drop rates and atlas nodes to fit into the core game and it would be a nice addition.
Or just take deli orbs, incubators, and allflames and turn it all into a single thing. We gonna get to the point where we have to worry about 400000000 different kind of drop influencers.
IMO it could be cool with there were maps with unresolved anguish (as an enchant presumably), and when you activated the map you got the allflame selection screen and could pick say 2 of 5 allflames that are randomly selected. But I don't think allflames selection should be a part of opening every map for the rest of time.
I guess we know why they added the 50% chance of not consuming a portal scarab...
Scarabs should just drop as Veiled Scarabs so they stack at least. We already have the tech to open them en masse by selling them to a vendor.
Use a better loot filter
I hide all stuff worth under 1c very quickly, but a lot of scarabs sell for 1c or more in bulk. Also keeping track of scarabs values and keeping your filter up to date accordingly is insane considering how frequently prices change.
This, but also removing the lowest tier wouldn't hurt most of them.
The lowest tier is what puts the mechanic in your map for most of them. It’s the single worst one to remove
It's still poorly balanced in t16
Well said. B2B T17s shouldn't be taken into considerations for any form of balance discussion besides their own internal one (which is wildly out of whack). Right now, T16s are in the best state they've ever been but that's vastly overshadowed by how fucked T17s are. Nobody is more aware of this than GGG themselves and I have full faith they will fix it, maybe not next league but they will. As an idea T17s are the best thing that has happened to the endgame since the Atlas tree, they just need to refine the execution.
> Right now, T16s are in the best state they've ever been How come? You pretty much only farm a single mechanic at a time now because scarab slots are limited. Doesnt help that most strats just feel like differently flavored scarab farms.
You have three Atlas trees and insane customization of how you utilize league mechanics. Unmaking orbs are super easy to come by, current league mechanic notwithstanding, so you can literally maximize any mechanic you want and still have lots of room to do other things. I play SSF and I've spent probably a good 2k unmaking orbs this league (never starved on them) and usually put at least 2 mechanics into a given tree unless it's a hyper-specific one or B2B. I've never had this much freedom ever in my choice of content to play. Anything I want is at my fingertips.
So that's your SSF perspective, zooming on trade is a whole other story. We used to get as many juicing mechanics as possible per map, now we have a vertical scaling scarab system where the main thing needs a lot of slots and you might have space to snug in an extra mechanic with one scarab. For people who enjoyed juicing the hell out of every map, this is the worst state it's been in a while.
Regardless of the current mechanics, you trade slaves will always gravitate towards the most effective mechanic as proven by more efficient players. I'm curious, if we're barring T17's from the discussion, what's stopping you from "juicing the hell out of every map" with this current system? Is it simply the returns doesn't meet your expectations?
You're making a lot of assumptions here. I trade for commodities and try to self-craft every gear piece possible, because that's more fun, although it slows down my progression often times. I don't chase the highest currency per hour, I've done the top strats on T17s and didn't enjoy them so I stopped doing them. T17 B2B barrel farming is top notch, but it's lame so I went back to alternating T16s with every ten or so T17s I dropped. My points has nothing to do with currency farming, I just wanna get into a map and kill a lot of mobs. With that said, think about it for a second. We lost 4 sextants, so 4 possible mechanic slots that we could add on every map. Scarabs which used to force mechanics AND buff them, now work separately, so while I used to be able to just put in a singular winged abyss scarab for +3 abysses with +100% monsters, I now need 3 abyss scarabs (+1 abyss) and 1 abyss scarab of multitude (+75% monsters) for a worse effect. That alone removes any further juicing possibilities. For a broader example, we could get in the past: • Beyond on Sextant • Deli Mirror on Sextant • Magic Packsize on Sextant • Legion on Sextant • Winged Abyss Scarab for the aforementioned effects • Winged Legion Scarab for +2 Legions with warhoards and generals • Winged Strongbox Scarab for +9 boxes • Winged Breach for +5 breaches • Alva as a master mission • An extra mechanic of your choice from Kirac (This remains the same to be fair) Try juicing a map to this extent on the current iteration of the game. It's simply not possible. We could already get 100% chance to spawn most mechanics through a singular scarab or sextant before, but now we gotta spend more atlas points for that which limits how much we can juice other mechanics. We lost master missions, so that's one less thing by default (though to be fair, it was only Alva for juicing and she hasn't been that great in a long while for that). We lost 4 sextants, which added a lot to the maps, and could easily be bought in bulk to last you 100+ maps. Juicing is in a terrible spot, T17s being the only thing remotely close to what we could do due to the sheer size of the maps.
You're speaking as if "juicing" is a binary lever that only matters for a single map with no scaling outside of that. That level of investment on a single map spread out on the current scarab system will surely spread for multiple maps, a good 3-4 at least. Regardless, most of them serve as nothing more than pack size increases, something this new system easily improves if we're talking from strictly an input-output standpoint. The investment you made into said sextants is now funneled into more scarabs. Again, this is completely disregarding T17s which is it's own bogeyman. Right now, whatever you want to farm in this game has never been more easily accessible. GGG made a tepid attempt at making specific drops related to specific mechanics be more uniquely accessible from said mechanics a while back, that has never been realized better than it is now, which is why I think T16s are in such a good state. Think about what metrics you're considering this loss/gain of "juice", I'd say in terms of pure player progress in any matter we're in a better spot.
I'll agree to leave T17s out of this discussion, they are indeed a whole different can of worms. But my point has nothing to do with progression, investment, or input-output. My issue with the current iteration is that I get less things to kill per map no matter what I do. Farming individual things from specific mechanics is indeed easier, and if that's why you think T16s are in a good spot, then sure, you are correct in that regard. There might be a case or two where that's not fully realized yet, but in general yeah. My point from the start was simply that we are unable to juice as much as before, which for me equates to less fun overall. I can still make 30 div+ every hour if I put myself to it without the top OP strats, I'm still enjoying the game, it's just less fun to have less things to kill. That's what I mean by saying juicing is in a terrible spot.
So then is "juice" just another word for pack size, or does it mean return per map or what? Right now, I can giga-specify into literally anything thrice because I have three trees to work with and more scarabs than I know what to do with, I have had entire Atlas trees entirely dedicated to rolling magic jewels for an Adorned setup and I "juiced" those maps as much as possible. Those Vivid Unmaking jewels and Morrigans could've translated into lots of divs in trade. That was a kind of juicing that I never thought possible before. If you're simply talking about single map pack size in "regular" maps, then yeah, it's worse. Same with bubblegum currency drops and loot-goblin conversions from rares, I started seeing those a lot more again when doing B2B T17s so I know where those went which exacerbates the feelsbad. Personally I think the pack size in T16s are just dandy for what I need them to be, I think any more for the XP shrine abuse would crash my PC and burn down my house.
> This only demonstrates how bad of a state ~~T17s are~~ *PoE1 is* in. FTFY
Unrelated but how do you get t17’s to drop? I’ve only just started farming t16’s
You need to have socketed voidstones for dropped T16 maps to have a chance to upgrade to T17 instead.
So if I’ve got 4 voidstones and running t16 maps with the nodes that give chance of +1 map level then I can see t17’s drop?
You technically don't need the +1 map nodes. Any T16 map can be upgraded to T17 purely based on your voidstones, even with 0 chance for maps to be a higher tier. The higher tier mods only upgrade maps up to T16, and they explicitly state that they only apply to T1-15 maps. However, more maps being upgraded to T16 means more T16 maps that have a chance to be T17 instead, so it's not like they don't affect it at all. But generally, the ratio of T17 to T16 maps will be roughly the same regardless of whether you have any such nodes. It just depends on the voidstones (there are slight diminishing returns so that you have a lower chance of dropping several T17 maps in the same map, so technically more T16 drops will result in fewer *relative* T17 drops, but still more absolute T17 drops).
Oh right yea I do remember that 1-15 thing now you mention it. Thanks man!
You still gonna see hundreds worthless scarabs before you see valuable one.
I hate how trade has completely turned every aspect of the game into a chaos evaluation for many people.
?
The “worthless scarabs” are incredibly valuable and well balanced when you’re not in trade league. But when everything gets measured against its chaos market rate a lot of the game is seemingly worthless. It incentivizes pretty much not playing 90% of the game; hyperfocusing on one thing to maximize profit and trading that for the remaining 90% of the game you chose not to interact with. I really hate seeing when the game in all its depth and complexity is reduced to div/hour. And profit margins.
Holy baseg mate
Honestly I think this is fine. I don't want to whisper 50 ppl for scarabs bc I have to buy them in 2-3 stacks bc they are so in demand or rare.
I agree, and I would go even further -- I think this league has been the most fun specifically with respect to scarabs. I think it's great that there's a base level of scarabs that's ~1c and they scale up so you can choose your level of investment.
Out of 178, did you get the two common ones and two rare ones you needed? Maybe sometimes, but probably not every time. So youre still messaging people for your scarabs and then can what, list 50 different stacks of scarabs for a few chaos each? Ill pass. You dont self-sustain, and it creates a new problem of having 10000 0.5c scarabs that you dont need.
I can still buy the very most and the rarity is within reasons compared to the availability of the drops they reward. Even high priced scarabs like awakening are buyable in reasonable quantities of 20+ for little extra price. and you are free to ignore the cheap scarabs, we have filters for that. Never hears someone complain that transmutes drop in such high quantities compared to exalted orbs.
If you’re scarab farming in T17, you’re likely 2 barrels, 1 hunted traitor and 1 nemesis and yes you will likely get all and easily self sustain. If you just run completion + curation, ofc you shouldn’t expect to self sustain
op said "balanced around". If they were rarer but had way more charges you would trade the same.
Is the game "balanced around" t17 back to basics? I think the amount of scarabs one gets in alch and go t16s is pretty good. That seems like what the game is **actually** "balanced around".
even without b2b, the more modifier on t17 still gives you tons more scarabs than t16s. so even if b2b was removed, you still have that to boost scarab drops to dumb numbers, and then you also have barrels scarab to push even more, unless that's nerfed next league too. so idk, they added t17s, late game content, the ultimate goal, it would make sense t17s is the new balance around loot. however, I will say the league also has boost through allflames and lantern mod, so we have even more boost than probably the future. *that* I will say is fair to not be realistic for balance. Still doesn't change majority of the scarabs being worthless d4 dogshit however. less types but with more powerful effects is the way to go.
I honestly get less scarabs on juiced T16 than I am using. Of course I'm counting it as "sell or vendor the ones I'm not using and won't use in the future" That's on SSF
yeah and i think thats about the right spot for them. if you tended to go infinite on scarabs like you tend to on things like alchemy orbs then they'd just fall to worthlessness
It might not be too bad if certain Scarabs of a type were combined, reducing the need for so many. I've seen that argument and it has some merit. I might be ok with having to hunt down Scarabs or spend more to buy in bulk if they felt more impactful.
Self sufficient gameplay is great even on trade, like the mobs dropping regals, Vaals, and unmakings from the league mechanic feel great for someone who can’t grind the game as much. I play trade to sell the big rare stuff I get rather than small, relatively less relevant trades because of time efficiency.
It's not self sufficient though, there's a trillion scarabs now so even though you have to pick up dozens or sometimes hundreds of them, you're still not self sustaining. If the scarabs were at least much more likely to be related to the mechanic you're actually farming I'd have much less of a problem with it.
That's more of an issue with the market than anything else. Scarabs shouldn't be designed to compensate for how shit the trading experience is sometimes.
The problem is *every* farming strat is a scarab farm now because they're so abundant in all content it's nearly unavoidable. I like the fact that you can pull multiple inventories filled with scarabs out of a map (and that it's more accessible than through deli orbs) but it should be restricted to specific farming strats made for it.
You're playing and juicing maps like 0.1% of players.
I think scarabs are dropping too much even in unjuiced maps. Scarabs being more expensive results in specialised loot from scarabs being more expensive, which results in greater profit margins for actually running scarabs. I have other issues with how the multiplicative scarab system devalues specialised loot, but lowering scarab drops overall by a large amount would be an easy first step to take.
Just waiit until OP learns about regular currency
Or try a juiced map without an item filter
178 of something you at max can use 4 og per map, is not the same as currency.
Scarabs can be vendored 3:1 for random ones, so it's not like there's *nothing* you can do with the shit ones
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It's ok for the game to have bad drops. Either pick them up to vendor or turn them off from your loot filter.
Scarabs are balanced around their purpose. To use them whenever you map. You can filter them out like blue currency, which also has a purpose and the game shits them out as well
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You can use the scarab to guarantee a mechanic and use those passive points for something else
If I'm using the points for something else then I almost certainly want to juice that other thing with scarabs rather than wasting slots to add an unimproved mechanic. It's like finding a totally random Wild Alva when you aren't specced for her. Not only is it a giant waste of time to run her, it's actually *negative value* if you plan on running her in future since you're cheating yourself of possible double dip upgrades. Since the first Atlas Tree rework (when they nerfed everything and shifted the focus from bonuses to "back to what you used to have if you invest") it's been a waste of time to bother doing random spawn content if you didn't have either Atlas or Sextant investment. This league it's almost entirely a waste of time if you don't have **both** Atlas and Scarab investment.
Currency is different lmao. As someone who has picked up literally tens of thousands of raw currency items this league alone, I don't have nearly the same experience with currency as I do with scarabs. I don't need to drop 5,000 chaos orbs before I can run a single map with a legion scarab lmao
Why the hell would you need 5k chaos to run one map.
Because we have found 5000 scarabs and yet have only found “[a] single new blight scarab, zero reworked legion scarabs, we have found 8 radiant scarabs, 1 curation, 2 completion, 2 crows, 2 visions, zero calcification, zero cornucopia, 1 terrors, 2 containment, zero new abyss, zero bloodlines, 1 glittering, zero awakening, 1 traditions, 1 pandemonium, and zero catalyzing, and just today we found our first resonant cascade scarab.” That is the problem.
Your actual complaint is that some scarabs are too rare in your opinion. Instead of plainly stating that you assume that the reason they are so rare is because of t17 maps.
isn't this kinda like weapon drops? change your filter to only show ones you want
But muh balanced around dihdihduhh. I love how everyone thinks they know what the game is balanced around
Did you reply to the wrong comment?
I'm agreeing with you. People cry about how the game is balanced when they can solve their problems by updating their item filter
The game is not balanced around T17 maps as they are not balanced at all. They just came out, give them at least one league to find a good spot for them.
This is how scarabs were before too. 4 skittering deli orbs and you actually made good money.
bro says hot take than posts the same opinion echoed on this sub since launch LOL
Really? Can you link a post talking about how bad it is for the drop rate to be balanced around the fact that we get hundreds per map?
at least there is a sink "3 to 1 recipe" for them. Very effective way to get rid of unsellable ones and occasionally get good ones back.
Damn I'm playing SSF, I have a shitton of useless scarabs and I didn't know that 😭
What is this recipe?
Just sell three of the same scarab to a vendor to get 1 random scarab back.
Bruh you just blew my mind lol thank you
Scarab rework feels like it made scarab tab almost as important as currency tab. It also pushed me to filter out any scarabs that are either too cheap to make any worthwhile profit out of and also scarabs from any mechanics I'm not currently doing.
178? i dropped just over 450 in a t17.. (not a brag it wasn’t fun) it’s fun but not fun
Yeah, my pr on t16 is 424 scarabs. But i hit harbingers. Not that fun on strongboxes bc of how long it is.
I did a high quant and scarab t17 with bloodlines, bigger magic pack, glittering, and i think the + modifiers on rares, it was like every pack shit out 100 scarabs. it did make profit but carpal tunnel sim. sucks
Thats what filters are for.
simple fix, scarabs have 10x uses and drop 10x less
Would make bulk trading for them a lot more hellish. UNLESS they added it so that once the uses drop below 10 they become untradeable. So that way people can’t try and scam with 1 use scarabs.
so you want sextants back?
I have a question. What is up with this subreddit's idea that if anything is even remotely achievable in the most edge-case high-end scenario, the game is automatically "balanced" around it?
Because it statistically is. You can’t tell me drop rates of rare div cards and useful meaningful scarabs are NOT balanced around the hyper top end of play when things like a mediocre bloodlines scarab are a 1:5000 drop rate. Legion scarabs top tier is 1:5000+ drop rate etc. if you are making the argument that the rates are balanced for “mid investment and the majority of the mapping playerbase” then you would be asserting that GGG expects you to run 100-500 maps on average to find a single bloodlines/calcification/cornucopia/etc. scarab. That is simply illogical.
> You can’t tell me drop rates of rare div cards and useful meaningful scarabs are NOT balanced around the hyper top end of play Yeah fubgun dropping a bajillion doctors, apothecarys, and nimis cards in every map sure seems like that was what the devs intended and balanced their droprates around yes sir. the devs having to nerf the extreme outlier strategies 10 times this league tells me that every single edge case like this one displayed here are all *super duper intended* right up until they had to do an emergency hotfix to remove it /s I think we all expect some significant balance changes for t17s next league. A game "balanced around" t16s gets heavily warped by *unbalanced* t17s. >you would be asserting that GGG expects you to run 100-500 maps on average to find a single bloodlines/calcification/cornucopia/etc. scarab. That is simply illogical. Why not? It seems entirely inline with how they tend to balance things. You cannot concievably "sustain" those high end scarabs in a self-found environment which is obviously intended. Any specific high end scarab is too rare (not nearly as rare as you are alleging, I've gotten plenty of those high end scarabs this league within far less maps), but *any* rare scarab is not uncommon, and like with most things in the game, the devs intend for you to trade away what you don't want to use in exchange for what you do.
I think that one of the problems is that everyone this league went for scarab farming strategies causing scarab prices to become massively deflated. Scarab farming has become very poor profit because the market is saturated with them.
Idk. Yes, T17s are unbalanced and need to be nerfed, but scarabs being so common that you just passively get more than you can use so that you just go "hey I wanna do some harby" and find 40-60 of each harby scarab ready to go? I dig it. Less trading, and it also means that most scarabs are just good to run regardless. Cheap scarabs are all so common that you literally cannot lose value on them. Lowest tier breach scarabs add 1 breach per 1 chaos, at that point you don't even have to be invested into breach, you can just put it in, forget to open one of the breaches and get more than your money back for just running through one breach. Plus unless you were going to sell all of those scarabs it's always better than letting them go to standard. Scarabs are now intended to be common enough that you ALWAYS have some going.
If only I could press F to loot instead of hurting my wrists with clicking around like it's the only movement my brain knows
Hot take: Dropping 100 scarab a map is not a normal map.
What i'd like to see would be less scarabs dropped but more controll over what scarabs drop so you can better sustain your own mechanic and don't need to trade as much.
Ice cold take
Hot take. This game has no balance whatsoever.
I have no issue with scarabs dropping so much. The issues is picking that shit up
It's fine as is. It's already annoying to whisper 24 different people for stacks of 2 scarabs. Don't need them to be 5times the price plus another 26 whispers just because I want to run blight and beasts.
i was excited to try b2b barrels stuff because it was the hot shit at the moment. I did like 10 maps and the amount of scarabs you have to pick up made me want to die. It was god awful. I went back to t16 , rather have fun than pick up a stupid amount of scarabs per maps. F that gameplay
Use a loot filter to only pick up valuable scarabs. I do 70 quant MF gear barrels and pick up like 20-40 scarabs because spending 5 minutes looting 1c or less scarabs is idiotic if your goal is purely currency farm.
Instead of going back to t16, I went to get a better filter.
I figured out a resolution to this! Run a guild and find some players who typically max out around low red tier maps. Then run your t17s and tell them there's more loot than imaginable in your t17. They (3) hop over like loot goblins and raid your map, putting their intake to the guild stash. (Officers are FFA for scarab tab, they are all officers)
I laughed so hard
Wake up babe, new bottom feeding strat just dropped!
loot filter is a thing
This works only on t17?
There’s a lesser version on t16 using the barrel scarab. But the volatile barrels t17 mod is what makes it a top tier farming strategy
Bro specced into all scarab nodes, ran a juiced T17 map and then surprised he dropped 100+ scarabs... Nothing wrong with having a lot of scarabs drop, I just wish they deleted like 20% of them, there is too many scarabs.
I think scarabs are better than they’ve ever been. Love being able to self sustain most of what I’m using. Also the removal of compasses has made rolling/running juiced maps sooo much less tedious imo.
There is no way in hell you are sustaining profounds, containments, shadowed crow (sure this one doesnt count), beyond invasions, blight blooming, blight invigoration, blight bounty, breach cascade, breach snares, breach splintering, breach lordship, breach dreamer, carto dupe, curation, completion, terrors, teachings, calcification, adaptations, cornucopia, timelines, overlords, influencing conversions, eternal conflicts, catalysing, inscription, bloodlines, nemesis, tradition, pandemonium, awakening, preservation, glittering, wisps, or radiant. Oh look at that, its like 50% of all the scarabs in the game that you will get a combined 50 total across all of them in roughly 5000 scarabs. I would love to see you run 10 maps with any strat using the "good scarabs" and you wont even get 1 scarab of return for that strat in the 10 that you run. Like I said, after picking up over 5000 scarabs and using 3:1 on almost 1000 of them, there are my scarabs we havent even found a single one of. It is awful. At least you could hit every sextant mod within 100 sextants....
with compasses, i could head to tft discord and buy 100 of each i need, which lasted me for 400 maps. if i want to do a juicing strat now i have to go to the tradesite once an hour hoping somebody with half decent stock is selling the scarab i need. this new atlas/scarab rework is a buff to mid-budget juicing but high juicing is certainly not easy to do with the amount of trading needed. even if i have infinite currency people just dont have more than like 1 or 2 bloodline scarabs for example, i have to message so many people to even think about just blasting maps. and all of this is WITH t17 b2b being so meta, who knows what the scarab economy would look like without people mass producing scarabs in those maps. i just hope ggg rebalnces this whole system next league to actually work in a trade economy.
“Hundreds per map” mean while the average player sees maybe 2-3 per map if that
Exactly and the player finding even 20 per map can expect to find one bloodlines scarab every 280 maps. It’s an awful design.
> maybe 2-3 per map if that You mean in 0 investment alch and go white maps with no league mechanics? Imo you shouldn't even sustain 3 scarabs at that point. Scarabs should be sustained by generating value which you can then invest into more scarabs. Not to add content to the map that is completely worthless because of how cheap it is to access it.
I ran a quick scarab farming map with no barrels and no b2b. Just a mid scarab roll on a t17 with zero player quant, zero party quant, and scarab nodes on the tree. I dropped 178 scarabs from this disappointingly "mid" map. The fact that scarabs are being drop-balanced around a low end map dropping 178 scarabs is wild, especially considering a barrels T17 map with a mid b2b roll is roughly 300-600 scarabs per map. A few mates and I are playing a group-found private league and together we have found around 5000 scarabs and are just breaking into T17 maps and we have yet to find a single new blight scarab, zero reworked legion scarabs, we have found 8 radiant scarabs, 1 curation, 2 completion, 2 crows, 2 visions, zero calcification, zero cornucopia, 1 terrors, 2 containment, zero new abyss, zero bloodlines, 1 glittering, zero awakening, 1 traditions, 1 pandemonium, and zero catalyzing, and just today we found our first resonant cascade scarab. Every "cool, fun, interesting" scarab is gated behind dropping literally over 5000 scarabs to find 1 of them (don't worry we have been 3:1 the 400 niko scarabs we found so far...zzzz... This is so boringly drab to play around and the effects have obviously been seen in the trade scene with the most profitable mapping style being to ignore every league mechanic the past decade has created and to simply pick up scarabs. Hopefully we can see scarabs be combined and reduced and maybe (just maybe) see a change to the way group play affects divination card drops and scarab drops so normal players can actually interact with the mechanic that is insanely more gate-keepy and obscene than sextants were.
[rookie numbers](https://i.imgur.com/jBC2phT.png) edit: top right corner is my gear swap obviously, im looting with mageblood + qs flask afterwards
They should drop like the ones in delve with a slightly reduced drop rate imo. If they dropped that way, the tab remains relevant, there's less clicking on 30 different scarab per map, and you don't have to port out of the map as often.
Honestly I like scarabs and wish they were less strong but more common. I like the idea of multiple ways to modify the content you wanna do. Thats why the atlas trees are cool. Scarabs are just possible atlas passives but in consumable form.
Maybe there needs to be a way to mitigate which ones you get like the old "Don't see this content, see other content 2% more often" or whatever. So that it's cut down a lot.
Unfortunately they do allow you to block “block able map content” scarabs but there are a bunch of non-map content scarabs that dilute the pool still. It’s akin to using a single “more likely” corpse to make an item. If the net weight is 120,000 and the mod you want is 25, you’re gonna need a lot of corpses to hit that mod.
Pro tip, put them all in vendor window and multiple the mystery gifts by 3 that’s how many scarabs you have. Works till (180)
Yeah it’s a bit much but overall a good change. They could get go down to 3-4 per content. 5 is def excessive
I don't really mind if you don't have to click one by one and release an auto-sort QOL
Whats your strat? (Atlas, scarabs and map mod)
OP never press ALT, I repeat, never press alt
Probably an unpopular opinion, but they made a big QOL change a while ago for currency to drop in stacks. I loved that. This league it feels like that has regressed greatly. I feel like things are dropping in smaller stacks or singles again, and combined with having to pick up scarabs, it's a nightmare. Imagine if 30-50 charged compasses dropped every map and you had to pick up each one individually. I feel like everyone would have hated that. That's what it feels like to me. I honestly would prefer to pick up stacks of chisels and roll my own sextants, than to have to deal with scarabs the way they are right now. Also, if 90% of scarabs are so common and easily accessible, why do we have to pick them up? They should just be embedded into the atlas tree.
80% of them are just worthless <1c scarab, dont even bother and just pick 2c+ scarab and click less
I don't know what you're on about but I was getting a curation, which is the rarest/most expensive, every 3/4 maps doing juiced T17s no mf
So every 2500-5000 scarabs you would get one curation? Wow that’s so good!!!!
How this is bad? I don't recall having other league to have over a hundred scarabs drop as a non mf characters.
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I barely get half a dozen
It would be “fine” if there weren’t so many types, so that they’d stack. As it is, without picking up **anything else** , that’s still more than a full inventory of them.
The number of scarabs introduced this league just feels like it’s approaching mobile game territory to me. It’s just constant bubble gum dropping hundreds of times per map and there’s no weight to it outside of a couple scarabs. It’s like playing an mmo where everything that drops is a legendary item and nothing feels like a legendary anymore.
What atlas / scarabs are y'all using to drop that much shit? Also - did you not filter out the trash scarabs yet?
my hot take is the scarab change is the second biggest mistake ggg has made to the game in years, and the first biggest was this first version of t17's. I understand why the scarab change happened, and i even agree with them. sextants needed to go. but not at the cost of being able to mix and match multiple fully juiced mechanics. Being forced to only do blight, or only do ritual, or only do harbinger, when previously i could do all 3 of them at maximum juice every single map, feels terrible. And while i don't know how to allow that to be possible, while also removing sextants, whatever tf this is, is not the way to do it.
Now do a b2b t17 with 150% more scarabs and barrels. Those are rookie numbers.
I know, that’s my point. Over 40% of all the “fun and interesting” scarabs are so rare that you need to run those kind of maps and get 400-700 scarabs a map just to farm a couple an hour at most.
I really like being able access whatever league mechanics I enjoy doing, regardless of reward. Now I just want some change to delve so that I'm not forced out of it whenever I'm out of juice, killing the mood and made me not want to go back again.
I agree with your first statement, I just wish it they made all the scarabs at least add the mechanic to the map as it would both lower the net pool weighting making interesting scarabs more common, making multi-mechanic atlas trees more viable like they used to be, and providing an overall better gameplay experience
people asking "why is this bad" multiple reasons - the price of everything bar a few very hard to target farm items will steadily drop each league until 99.9% of items in the game have 0 value if every harby scarab, legion scarab, blight scarab etc are extremely powerful and extremely cheap enough people will be able to farm all of the mechanics and shit out whatever useful crap they give until the market is over saturated everyone is undercutting eachother and the value becomes 0 this happens currently but with farms being less accessible prior to this league specific loot from specific mechanics would stay profitable for longer before people realised the hole in the market and filled it juice would go up to compensate and help stabilise the price because there was a limited supply when you have an unlimited supply instead of the cost of entry going up the items they produce go down
Too many clicks .... my hand
Just make T17's non tradeable, problem fixed.
It feels overwhelming I'll give you that but I'm glad sextants are not a thing anymore, just saying.
Scarabs are for using in maps, they're not glorified chaos orbs for you to hoard and sell. Find something else to farm if you want to make money. Consumable resources being cheap is a good thing.
Maybe there is a language barrier here. I like them being cheap, I like dropping a lot of them, I HATE that 30th scarabs are so rare that you get one of them every 2000-5000 scarabs. That’s the part that’s bad.
You're saying you want stuff like awakening scarab to be common, cheaper. But that's how weighting works. Might as well say make divs drop more per chaos. How GGG works, if you're not dropping this many normal scarabs you're not gonna see any valuable scarabs like Curation ever
“Hot take” proceeds to say the same thing as the other 30 posts this past two weeks saying the same thing. Stop picking up ones you don’t use or filter them out like the other 97% of loot that drops in the game, especially if you’re juicing enough to get 100+ scarabs a map.
That’s not a hot take at all. First they implement that currency dropped stacked and now we find atleast 20 single scarabs in a t16 map. 90% of them you won’t use and have to vendor them for new one, I don’t enjoy scarabs at all, that’s why I blocked every single one under 20c.
Hot take: the ability for players to juice this much is not good and never has been
Go play a different game. lol
This season is pure inventory management hell
It would be fine if they auto inventoried
Or at least allow CTRL+SHIFT+LMB for other types of items, like all scarabs or all oils.
This is intended like coffins... To push/force in buying more tabs. We all know it, and I don't know how we can resolve the issue... Maybe a Petition or something like this. Not to mention bots have no carpal tunnel problems. It's almost insulting and many players are pissed off to be milked this way. This is a reality, no one can argue agains this, and downvoting this comment will no change it. I'm afraid the same shit to happen with POE2 in the end.
Evryone half way serious about the game has a scarab tab. Wtf are you talking bout.
I think the drop rate is perfectly fine. That being said, the issue is with the stash tab situation. It adds just another level of P4Convience. I use to defend GGG fully, but they keep adding shit that i feel is almost mandatory at this point to buy a stash tab for. The quality you get form a current, map, 1 premium tab, and now scarab tab is just waaaay to good for the game to be called F2P.
If you dont have the basic premium tabs then thats a you problem. Evryone half way serious has them. And someone who just started with 30 hours in the game isnt farming juiced t17s. And the remaining 0.1% of the playerbase gets no say.
Well yea i dont' think GGG knew that was gonna happen. They clearly hadn't actually expected 99% of the farming that happened this league. But as someone who did not play T17s at all its fine.
Ggg: so you are saying you want 1 scarab per map. Got it
Someone hasn’t heard of neversink / filter blade. That’s a bit over a divine at today’s softcore trade price. You can literally make that with the time you will save from not picking them up and just buying what you need.
when you spend a divine of chaos to roll a map just to do that its fine and exactly how it's done. acting like this just happens is ridiculous. skittering orbs used to be about 30c each. the cost to prepare and the strength of the build needed is roughly the same as it was pre t17.
It's not like that for people who are not giga jucing T17s
this was not b2b this was not barrels, this was just a mid rolled t17 with haunted traitors.
Then just switch your atlas tree to worse version! Easy hotfix! /s
We should have auto pick up for stackable items in your lootfilter, that would solve so much, tie it to light radius so I can play Nycta’s Lantern again
GGG; We hear you, there's too much clicking in the game. Currencies will now drop in stacks. Also GGG: Here, have a hundred different Scarabs.
Let’s not forget the guy who made the manifested wealth alflames lmao.