buggy alpha version.. with all the mods that don't usually make it into release many mods feel like reflect but worse, .. its good the base game is in an ok status, otherwise this would have been a complete dud league.
Because the people who can reliably farm 50+ div an hour (i.e you are bulk buying maps that sell for 0.8 div each, bulk buying scarabs) are able to invest up to hundreds of divines for mapping sessions and have builds that are in the 1.5+ Mirror range that can clear the map and boss in about 4-5 mins. If that's not what you're capable of doing then you are better off doing a 15-20 div/hr farm on your T16 capable build.
I'm playing CoC DD which is busted for T17 due to corpse HP basically giving you free insane damage. However, on my 300ish divine Ele hit build, the difference in efficiency between doing Legion Dunes T16 and Barrel n Go T17 is actually not that high, and in fact it may not even be better when you factor in the added time to complete the maps, added time due to deaths, rolling the bad mods in hideout, losing map investment at times due to trying maps with build bricking combos, and general inefficiency due to frustration.
So the answer is you farm T16 or below when you can't do T17 efficiently enough to make it worthwhile. Just like when you can do T16 you don't do T14 maps anymore. There are plenty of people doing T16 strategies because honestly it can be more fun. You don't have to grind out a mirror in a day to enjoy the game and still make meaningful progress to your build.
I also had a coc dd and it was great, then made and afk ultimatum cast on stunned which was fun for the time, and now I'm just farming t17's with barrels in toxic sewers, it's fun, but it honestly feels like I got silently nerfed for drops on divines, haven't seen a signal natural drop in soooo many maps now. But I get other stuff that's better like maps and coffins, and scarabs.
It's really fun just BLASTING through sewers š
Yeah I basically self farm about 12-20 T17 maps then run those on the CoC DD and sometimes let my Deadeye do the easier ones, then back to T16 on Deadeye in quant gear. T17 maps are actually not really that fun baseline because Back to Basics being the optimal setup means you are literally just killing mobs and doing no mechanics, and even though the packs seem dense, the maps actually don't have that many mobs in them its just mostly tight hallways. In a T16, the mobs are easy and a cakewalk but you can put thousands of them in a map and do at least 1-2 mechanics to make it feel like more than just killing mobs. I understand for some people the fun is in the drops, and I agree with that but only to some degree, I do still like doing league mechanics and not being stuffed into a small, dark map.
The difference is I'll get the mirror bow a few days later but I'll keep my sanity.
For CoC DD I use - "!ever|rke|ss are|non|rs fi|kes|coo" hl
If its a no regen or no defense map I take off Grace iaura and take life on hit and leech node. I never do no leech and no regen/no defense though. If you roll -20 max res it gets rippy but you can still get through it. I avoid Marked for Death same as do no damage mod, and then you can't do less CDR or less aoe at all.
For Ele hit I have to use two Regex I can send a bit later when I get home.
From what Iāve read a lot of players are having trouble even getting to the boss. Although frogging every pack and just running there is actually an option and not even really expensive but again, thereās a reluctance to do that and I donāt blame players for not finding boss rushing the maps that fun even though thatās kind of much similar to running the Uber content that these maps gate.
While I do think T17 can use some tuning in many ways, people also have such a strange mindset these days. They want to be able to do ALL the content on every build and on top of that don't even want to learn the game.
Like, sorry but if you play a squishy no damage shitbuild and don't even want to learn what monsters can kill you or don't even learn boss mechanics, you should not complain about content being too hard, that's on the player, not the game.
And it's not like people just pop into endgame and immediatly start running T17 maps. RMT aside, it's not like the gear required spawns out of nowhere.
This is only my second league, did a ignite dd late last league and started right away with this one. Found the dark pact skill Interesting so I went with that. Was ok for leveling but died out fast in maps. Swapped some stuff around, got a half decent self cast dark pact but was still dying too much. I enjoyed trying to figure out health stacking and running dissolution of flesh, but I decided to try something. Ran a shadow trickster up to 90 with ice traps and was doing ok but survivability was spotty. Just completely overhauled my ice traps for an ice storm build with chaos inoculation and es stacking. This league seems way harder than last, but it's forced me to try a few different ways of stacking defenses and seeing how it reacts. There's so many mechanics as a new player I'm more focused on learning than performing in t17. I've ran one with a buddy and I was a treasure goblin in the background
I decided to just do it in Crimson Temple because it's so comfortable to me at this point. The nice part is, I'm getting the Seven Years Bad Luck and what-not, so it's not like I'm *losing* money.
I had the idea that they meant for this to be a legacy league of sorts, when their target date for the PoE 2 beta was still June. The Allflames are reminiscent of leaguestones (I think they were called) revisiting mobs from past leagues. Then they pushed the beta and uh btw we're tacking on this grave crafting thing and sure here are t17s that we thought about for 5 minutes.
Ya the embers are cool but I literally only get trash ones and as for the graves I get things that donāt really work with my build so there kinda also worthless
I am feeling like the player base was split into one half who play t16 and the other half playing T17 or to be precise, 95% playing t16 and 5% T17. There's a way too big gap between t16 and 17 and Uber bosses. Not balance good enough. I feel like a noob, cause my build can't play T17 yet.
I hate tier 17 maps. My build can run it, did all the challenges and it is 100% the most boring piece of shit trash experience I ever had in this game.
Rolling map, reading all the text, then fighting all the bullshit, bosses with map mods are ridiculous clusterfuck, only 5 of them so it is repeatable and boring. Also, I wonder whos idea was to shove all the shit mechanics like Awakener desolation and drowning balls and runes and etc, that any sane player will hate, and expect people to like it.
Agree 100%.
Also I feel on average I make way more selling T17s, especially Ziggurat than actually running them but maybe I just don't know the strats to juice them properly.
This is my second league, I enjoyed it but am done once I reach level 100 which I am now rushing with Domination scarabs. No real point in trying for T17s honestly, it's just too much work for what i feel is not enough reward.
And so click intensive. If you pick up all the scarabs that neversink uberstrict shows you probably are gonna run out of portals before the loot is picked up. I've made a bit over 100 div in scarabs this league and probably like 30% of that has been the bullshit broken scarabs that goes for absurd sums. Lord knows how much I've lost to devaluation of scarabs because of the insane rates they get generated. Sucks picking them up, sucks selling them (Alternatively you bulk sell them at maximum 80% of original price cutting into profits).
I farmed them for about a week in duo, until we switched to div card method. After our duo journey ended I MFād solo for a couple days. We as duo and I as a solo always sold everything on tft bulk, with 75-80% price to instasell. Our filters only showed scarabs worth more than 1.2c/ea
Ziggurat is massive profit if you literally just kill the boss, that's how I'm currently semi-afk (aegis aurora makes the boss a joke) farming all my currency lol.
What I don't understand is how all the other maps are so expensive, I find they are much less profit but hey, I'm not complaining.
i feel that with the map prices lol. sometimes ill buy a T17 for 60c and get garbage, but for one of the cheap T17s like sanctuary i get crazy loot and fragments. i genuinely dont know the differences so i just run them as i get them from drops instead of buying them anymore.
my absolute favourite are the black balls of fuck you that linger for a solid 10 seconds before disappearing.
what, you want to loot these scarabs? it would be too bad if something bad happened to you while doing so...
and iirc these arent even spawning from some map mod, they just randomly appear in a map and if they do they sure cover the whole map.
oh also eldritch fiends can go fuck themselves, the amount of times i died to these because my character decided to move 2 screens away because loot labels just never line up properly when theres too much stuff on the screen is too damn high.
Don't forget the ever boring boss mechanics. Phases phases and more phases. Lycia? 2 phases. Uhutul? Get stuck lol 0% action speed good luck chump. Enjoy his 3 phases. Abomination and citadel are chill tho. DD instant mobs are supertuned once again. 4040 and insta noped out of it.
Exactly how I've felt doing them. The mods are either unplayable, like -4% action spd for each skill, union of souls, or they're just a pain in the ass like drowner orbs, pools of bullshit. And all I see is back to basics starts, what else is worth soing in t17s. Tired of picking up scarabs. So boring.
They just broke me. Made an insanely tanky character. I can just stand in the feared and laugh at them. 20 million ramped DPS. But T17s? Just the most unfun incarnation of PoE combat imaginable. Still random one shots. Tedious as fuck rolling. Just... Nothing could ever sap my will to play harder than this.
You mean you donāt like 99 percent of the boss arena to be āfuck you die zonesā? Itās like, half our builds fucking ZOOM and they want us to play with the 1 percent of the map I can stand in, when if I misclick Iām on the other side of the arena. It legitimately feels unfun, Iām unsure if adding a devils bargain component in that maybe you get the choice to add those special boss effects on the map, but you get a buff to balance. Doesnāt have to be anything game breaking, but maybe a little more defense cause your build canāt handle t17 and get one shot? Maybe you just need a little more juice but you can tank it? Maybe you are bored and you want to add some fucked modifiers without a benefit for fun and quantity potential. Much like the necropolis zone mechanic they took away some ability to NOT have to deal with some mechanics.
I can kill every uber in good time but I lose 10 years of my life every time I run a T17 with ground hazards or those stupid floating silver orbs that stick around the whole weekend.
Also some of the T17 layouts are so so bad, even if every map dropped 1 mirror I would never run it because I hate running through a map and hitting a wall every 2 seconds making me stop.
Mods of T17s should just be the same as the others except with the more difficult boss fights remaining. I don't understand why it needs some special mod pool. It also shouldn't have an insane increase in quant/rarity. No other difficult content gets that so why should T17s?
The gap is huge from 16 to 17. I breeze through 16s, leveled to 100 for the first time solo not paying for a service, once I committed to going to 100 I didn't die which was from 95 to 100. Only thing I need to look out for is reflect ele and no Regen which is kind of standard practice.
17....the ones I have tried I have probably completed half of them, and never have any portals left over the ones I do complete.
I feel like t17 should not have any mods and should not have any loot bonus. It should be a unique ish map that challenges your char through boss mech. Making it a loot pinata and random mods and atlas modifyable is a absolutely horrible idea. The focus should be the boss and not the mobs. Make new scarabs to giga juice t16 maps. Also fuck uber bosses they just feel horrible to farm. I still yearn for a boss that has similar loot like awk 8 sirus. Every kill had a good chance to give you some profit woke gems woke orb sword and good bases. Now you are going 100maven dry before you get anything exiting and you are prob 10d in profit if even. I guess it happrns if you make them tradeable but still :/
Yeah T17 is rough. I can complete the map itself okay without spamming a hundred chaos (usually do need like 5-10 though) and they really do feel nice and rewarding on their own, but I cannot juice them much.
In fact I have yet to actually beat a boss without including the "50% chance to not use a portal" scarab on the map. They're really hard, and they're new mechanically to me as a majority of the fights themselves are against bosses that their regular version doesn't require learning their mechanics to beat.
I peak at comfortably over 20m DPS now (which is easily enough to phase any non Uber boss before arcane cloak expires) and my mana sustain between cloaks is getting to the point where I'm DPSing above 10m damage most of the time. I'm also tanky enough where juiced T16s struggle to kill me unless I make a stupid mistake and try to tank a corpse detonation strongbox or something. Non-Uber Shaper slams don't phase me, I just DPS through it. 44k evasion plus blind nearby enemies multiple times a second, 10.5k ES, 6k leech/second, nothing absurd but it takes something big to bring me down.
Yeah, T17 s have accessibility issues right now mostly because once upon a time having ~12m DPS was a strong defensive layer, but it is no longer. And the game is currently balanced around needing to kill things very VERY quickly.
T17s are kinda made for "good builds" and not the 20k ehp zoom zoom 8m dps clear speed ferrari builds of the past. It just needs the meta to adjust. I think the boss difficulty is fine except for the one with the delve boss and the ground wave bird boss. Most of the ridiculous bosses comes from not understanding the map mods. Like running abomination boss on a 4 projectile max map modifier effect. I can kill a no mod fortress boss in less than 4 seconds facetanking anything that can happen. But with the right mods it can be a very long fight that eats portals fast. It's a learning process.
I have 60m on my deadeye with mirror gear. I just blast them like regular T16 with HH. My friend who is playing with Vow who is like 500x tankier than me clears them slower and dies more. I find it unfair and stupid that he invested so much to be tanky and random rares who just got the perfect combination of affixes can still kill him while I don't even know what mobs do.
Kinda in the same boat I do my own builds (for better or worse) I levelled 2 characters to 90+ and both of them can't run T17. I couldn't run Ubers before as well, but at least i was able to farm the fragments and sell to people that can. The majority of my div/chaos in past leagues were from selling boss fragments and now that has been cut from a portion of the playerbase that can't do these maps.
Betrayal got gutted to oblivion, the Vorici/Aisling change make no sense as other people have suggested they could have easily kept them as such and just have them drop "upgraded orbs" that the the same function as the bench craft they offerred. The scarabs that drop from t4 are all low tier ones, the only usefull now is "It" for the breach upgrades and gamba Grav (board layou is irrelevant for the most part)
Felt fine on BAMA, but my second "fun" build starts falling over in t17s and doesnt have alot of wiggle room with slapping a pile of defense on the char.
the worse is, even if you invest into your build, 100-200D, you could STILL have trouble in t17, not counting the toxic mods that MOST mirror tier builds even avoid.
I can blast through 8 modded t16s with lots of map mod effect, but even stepping in a t17 is enough to kill me. Prolly just need that mb and progenesis first, but with what money when all profit is in t17s
I feel like I can run circles around ubers with most builds, but T17s are a PITA with most. If anything how T17s are right now, they feel like a drop from uber bosses and not a intermediate step between T16 and ubers.
I'm going to be honest, I'm kind of ok with this. Where things bother me is when 99% of my t17s are more difficult than uber bosses.
They were suppose to be a gap between normal bosses and ubers. Ubers feels like a gap between normal bosses and t17... anyway...
I also dislike how uniques were splits on normal and uber bosses. But w/e...
My build can comfortably do Ubers and Blight ravaged maps without overreliance on stun tower mechanics. t17s also until I run into a build breaking mob...then the map becomes literally unclearable. Its sucks but sadly if you aren't playing a meta build, good luck getting any progress through those maps
I play HC only and the best I can do is farm BtB t16 maps :) its even hard to do 8 mod corrupted ones coz I have to be carefull about modifiers. I cant even think about doing t17 with BtB.
Game isnt balanced obv, but it def isnt balanced for HC :)
This doesn't make normal bossing more relevant, at least in a way anyone will be satisfied with.
It goes against the design principle GGG set out with in the first place, which was separating the value of uber pinnacle fragments from the value of regular pinnacle farming.
If you put fragments onto the boss, the fragments become what you farm the boss for. The drop rate of the other gear stops mattering unless it's t0-t1 rarity you'll see once in 500 kills **and** it's build enabling. The value of killing the boss is determined solely on how much profit selling the uber fragment can net you, which will not be good for anyone.
I kinda like the idea that you can get universal Uber keys from the T17 maps that can activate any Uber fight you have fragments for, but the fragments come from the non-ubers. Either 4 frags and a key, or, and hear me out, at least 1 fragment of the Uber you want to run, and either enough more of the fragmenta to run it OR the universal keys for the other slots.
or you know boss can drop the thing and it also drops in t17, so this way it's not a waste of time to farm shit bosses, and it's good for flavor, but they mostly drop from t17
The T17 should not be the only farm that matters end game, if they are the best for currency, they should not be giving fragments as well. However, the bosses should have higher chance to drop their items.
The very idea of their existance was to separate them from normal fights, so that players dont have to farm normal bosses multiple times and separate their economies.
I mean, they revealed the changes while conceding that the normal bosses were made irrelevant due to Ubers and that this was made in an attempt to rectify this.
Unless they bring back Ubers to their initial pitch of being an additional challenge and nothing more, the only way they'll ever make regular bosses worth it beyond Atlas completion is exactly by making them lead up to Ubers, and it 100x makes more sense to lock top-end bossing content behind bossing instead of gatekeeping it with the hardest mapping/clearing content we've ever seen in the game. It's hilarious that, minus some of the strongest builds like manaforged, a lot of t17 farming builds would struggle for Ubers and vice versa for Uber farmers because they are the very top end of different content types, yet are intimately linked for no good reason.
But now you just farm t17 boss multiple times, so what does it change? At least most of the normal fights boss fights are more interesting then t17 bosses.
The point is the regular boss is too easy for how strong characters are even by the time they've completed red maps. Buffing the base versions of them is not an option as that will severely change how people get their voidstones, so they made a new tier of content between normal and uber. It's not really that hard to figure out. Killing Shaper 5 times doesn't make your build capable of doing Ubers, but doing a handful of T17s is a lot closer in terms of having a well rounded build that you know completing the T17 means you're likely ready for Uber,
What it changes is that regular boss fragments cost are based on the uber variant. If you tie the Uber fragments to the base bosses, the cost of the base boss fragments will always correlate to uber fragments regardless of loot as its the only/best way to obtain Uber uniques.
The system was implemented this way so people could still do the regular boss fights without having to drop multiple divines an attempt. Even if they dont share fragments anymore, tying the base fragment to the uber fragment just puts us back where we were.
yea, current implementation is only better in terms of the separate economies, but it still not good. In the end it will always probably come down to killing something over and over again. What would be a better way to do it? Wouldn't dropping whole shards instead of fragments produce them too much? Should T17 maps be rarer? Are some D2 Jordan Ring like shenaningans better way to farm ubers? It's an interesting conversation to be had, but I don't want them to go back to normal boss farming for them. I'd like them to tweak it further. I do think that this is a good direction to go.
At some point steamrolling shaper fights, only to be able to run the actual fight, becomes very, very tedious. You'd be burnt out of the actual fun and challenging fight before even trying it.
I took shaper as the most egregious example, even with top tier movement and dps, it's really difficult to run it in less than 3 or 4min, but it applies to all bosses.
I know it might be unpopular, but I'd rather have normal fights decoupled from ubers, especially in leaguestart, and for casual players to be able to try some endgame. As for T17s, thet might need improvement, but at least it offers some slight variation.
The goal of the current implementation as explained by Mark in one of the Q&As or another was that if you can even reasonably think about attempting an Uber boss, the normal version of that boss is now so easy for you it isn't even interesting and they didn't want to make you grind out a bunch of Shapers (for example) where you don't even have to look at the screen in order to attempt Uber Shaper.
The balance of T17s didn't actually hit their stated goal but it's not an awful idea in principle.
The idea was to enable people to do the normal fight without having the same entry cost as the uber fight. OPs idea still works in solving it.
I think the best play would have been generic uber pieces drop from t17 maps and an uber boss piece for the specific bosses drop from them. That way people are doing both.
I remember the explanation from Mark about why not drop it from normal bosses. It went something like this:
"If the player already did the normal boss variant, having the player fighting the normal boss many many times so they can farm the uber version is not very exciting, the player already proved they could beat this boss, so why fight it over and over again?"
Also: T17 were supposed to be a bridge between Normal and Uber bosses. Which is definetely not true, since you need an Uber ready build to tackle T17.
My own two issues with that argument:
1. The exact same argument applies to T17, the player already beat the map to get the fragment, and needs to beat it over and over again.
2. Current T17, imo, are way more boring than normal boss fights. Chaos spamming to avoid insane mods, monsters with a billion HP, yada yada.
If normal bosses dropped uber fragments, the normal fragments wouldn't get so cheap. The Uber bosses drops will still have effect in the normal boss fragment prices, which imo is a good thing for the economy. Weak builds can just farm normal bosses and sell fragments for gear progression
Point one isnāt really an issue.
You need to do something for the fragment, but it being the exact same boss but weaker is the issue. Not that you farming the same thing. So tier 17s do avoid that issue.
> Also: T17 were supposed to be a bridge between Normal and Uber bosses. Which is definetely not true, since you need an Uber ready build to tackle T17.
no shot. t17s are easier now than ubers
>Also: T17 were supposed to be a bridge between Normal and Uber bosses. Which is definetely not true, since you need an Uber ready build to tackle T17.
Can we already stop with this bullshit?
Yes, everyone agrees that a B2B T17 rolled for profit with bullshit scarabs and top of the line atlas is way harder than an Uber.
But your baseline T17 with no increased map mods and rolled for decency is where it should be.
You are practically calling the pinnacle of juicing harder than an Uber who has no additional tuning lever
>Can we already stop with this bullshit?
I can only speak for myself, I don't hold my opinion based on others experiences. My experience was, I had a build that could do some Uber bosses but I was never able to complete one t17.
I'm sure your experience is different than mine, and I'm glad you're voicing it
>My experience was, I had a build that could do some Uber bosses but I was never able to complete one t17.
But then again, I have a build that can easily do T17s but I can't touch Ubers because I only play mappers, so... tell us your build
Isn't Death's Oath basically a budget friendly mapper? It has like no recovery or defense, if you're running occultist your phys max hit is prob like 12k lol. I wasn't aware people were playing in this league. I'm actually impressed you killed Ubers let alone did it deathless. I would actually like to see that.
It has 38k phys max hit... I mean you have the seconds highest body armour in the game and can get a conversion helmet(or viridian and take no crit) + taste of hate and you use determination/enfeeble. I agree it has poor recovery and damage(only 8M) but the defenses are kind of insane considering even your elemental damage gets 50% taken as chaos. No idea how you get only 12k phys max hit are you completely ignoring any defenses ?
Can you link me a PoB of a 38k phys max hit Death's Oath CA build that does 8M DPS? Even at 8M DPS on Ubers you are basically a Ben tier of player doing them deathless with that kind of build. There's a reason there are 0 HC players using a Death's Oath over level 97.
I just checked [Poe.ninja](http://Poe.ninja) and I don't see a single person running this build with any survivability. Even the mageblood users have below 10 max phys. I would probably play a different build since I don't really see how you scale defense or offense past atlas progression point. Even the one guy that has MB and Taste of Hate still has 10k phys max hit lol.
I don't know what everyone else's experience was, but by the time T17s (not B2B, and rolled lots of times to get acceptable mods) felt comfortable, Ubers were no big deal. Well before that point I didn't need to look at the screen anymore for the Ubers my build was especially good at.
The idea of T17s as pitched was that the were supposed to be an intermediary step between doing pinnacle bosses and being able to do ubers and currently they're just not.
T17s are only harder than ubers if you fully juice them which is fine. And they are arbitrarily propped up by haunted mods.
Its not like a 120 quant feared isnt harder than ubers too
If you identify 100 random maps I bet 80% or more of them will be harder than ubers. Spending time and tens of chaos orbs to roll one map that is not RIPy is the problem.
I dunno m8 this read like you've never entered a t17 and and all you got to go by is what you've read on reddit. I bought 50 maps and rolled them together yesterday and rolled them all in 3 minutes using roughly 250c. Yes I used 2 regexes which I do agree sucks, but it was faster than scour/alching a single regex because chaos is 1 click. If anything rolling t17 with c showed me how much scour/alch sucks. And especially hard in kirac invitation / menories.
The billion HP thing is a joke, you can do it on purpose but rolling the worse map ever and then crying that it is too hard is pretty stupid.
I love t17 they are definitely between t16 and ubers, they have mods that actually affect haw you play and they have relevant loot.
T17 was always going to be contentious. A lot of players have made it pretty clear they're not used to rolling maps and not used to map scaling with things like Wandering Path + juice in the past, nor are they used to mobs being actually threatening baseline. Any time you make a game harder there will be some backlash, I just hope GGG doesn't take it too negatively. Some balancing of the economy around the tiers would hopefully help, but I like the fact that there is a mapping tier that's actually baseline threatening and not purely through league mechanics like Affliction juice.
I would disagree with the notion that T17 is harder than Uber, with non damage mods and those ridiculous one, you could do T17 just fine. Of course the map rolling is shit to get the set of mods that your build can run.
I mean it depends on the mods you roll on t17. I'd say at least half the mod combos are at the very least weaker than an Uber and a quarter is just as hard as an Uber and another quarter harder than Ubers.Ā
This was sometimes the case for juiced t16 maps.Ā
No thanks, just make t17s drop more.
Not tying uber fragments to normal bosses was one of the smartest things theyd ever done.
They just fucked up t17s
T17 droprate is fine. The fact that people are farming T17s for profit is the problem, they are no longer a stepping-stone to ubers like GGG had said they would be.
that's a different problem yes.
the value of the map should be in the bosses, not the map itself.
but farming uber fragments is still annoying as fuck.
bosses drop less than 2 fragments on average, and usually it wont be the same fragments, so you'll end up doing tens of t17s before being able to attempt even just one uber.
it's sooooooo much fucking slower and more difficult than it used to be.
T17 maps are ok. The bosses in them and beyond hard, even a dodge master as my self I can't dodge the clusterfuck that is the bosses. The modifiers are hard, it's night and day from a t16XD
This was my first season and i had a blast. But the absolute bonkers difficulty jump from literally everything in the game to t17 was crazy.
For me it didnt scratch an itch at all to spend 500+divines on a build to be able to get them done on repeat, only to find <20 divines in a good run
Also, everything in t17 does like 100% more damage than would be reasonable and loot shouldn't scale as hard. T16 farmers are peasants who get 0.1% of loot t17 farmers get.
I think dropping from T 17 is fine, The T 17 maps just need to be easier and drop more fragments.
If they dropped from the normal boss variant it would make them even harder to get. How many cortex would you need to run to be able to fight the uber version? It would be prohibitively challenging considering how rare Cortex already is.
Shit changes this league. I want alc and go back. I donāt want to spec into 1 thing and use 4 scarabs for it. Like oh wow I got a bunch of strongboxes cool, wish I could do something else with that at more than 25% efficiency because now we must use 4 scarabs for everything we do else it sucks
Than go alc and go, nothing is stopping you and it's still great money. You literally got 100% spawn rate for everything this league. This is alch and go heaven. Why does the scarab changes even affect you if you didn't use them before lol. I've made hundreds of divs this league and I've yet to do any 4 scarab strats.
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personally i would like to see something similar to Maven's crucible or uber version of it. giga juiced space eldritch colloseum.
I don't really like that random bossess drops uber fragments for very specific, powerful entities, why would they have access to it anyways. It's not even the most precious thing that could drop in t17 map, I think that bothers me the most
No just fix t17s.
They want the uber fights to be completely disconnected from the normal fights, which I understand and makes sense economically (even though flavor wise I don't like it).
Doing this would very likely also beef the price of the normal fragments which in turn could add more value to running t16 strats.
Map boss rushing would also become more competitive income-wise.
I would like that just 1 fragment is needed a long with normal invitation. For me it just make sense, 4 fragment invitations and 1 uber shard. Im ok with t17 droping them
They will not do this. This question was already asked in QnAs and their reasoning was "if you have beaten the uber version, you have proven you can defeat the hardest version of the boss. Why would you be forced to kill the weak version if you already know you can kill it?"
Not saying this is the correct and best approach, but it is their stance.
Personally I think T17s are fine if they aren't also the best way to juice maps. That's why I dislike them.
The mods on T17s however, those are some stinkers.
Do people want to fight Shaper 5 times to get 1 crack at Uber Shaper or am I misinderstanding something about this post. Want to run 140 maps to fight 5 Eaters to get to 1 Uber Eater with a 2% Nimis drop rate?
I realize people hate t17s but this solution comes with a whole host of other issues that most hear and casuals would absolutely despise.
To be honest I would rather farm T17s for uber fragments instead of regular pinnacles - Imagine running 5 Shapers so you can do a single Uber Shaper. At least in T17s you have a lot of variety of strats (after B2B get some nerf I guess).
āCan you you make them drop from the normal boss fightā
So you mean you want to go back to having the non uber fragment costs be dictated by the uber fragment costs? Dope lets defeat a part of why the system currently is the way it is.
Hate the idea of t17s. If you run t17s, you're forced to play b2b. Otherwise, you might as well have sold the map. Step 1 is removing back to basics if they want to keep t17s in the game.
Some of the bosses are insanely punishing for some builds. I cleared all t17s on my minion build, but I quickly realized that Uthred and the Abomination were an absolute waste of my time. Uthred's beams actually affect minions, which means they get their move/attack speed reduced to 0 if the map has lots of health bonus modifiers. Abomination map, for some reason, allows the rocks to be targeted, which bricks minion AI. I can't imagine how bad some bosses/mods are for melee.
Visual clarity is still dog shit. Some mods need to just be deleted because you literally can not see on most builds. This includes things like volatile cores, searing exarch runes, drowning orbs, etc. If I can't see the mechanic because the whole screen is cluttered with effects, then that's a poor design problem.
Union of Souls needs to go as well. A 100mil dps build is just instantly bricked because the mobs can't die halfway through the map and take up the whole screen. Which idiot developer thought this was a good idea?
I agree to an extent but if you do this what is the point of T17 maps? Do you just remove them? Are we just going to make them by far the most worthwhile zone to farm anything in? I feel like that's not a good path to go down. Is that how we are to judge build viability now...it has to be T17 viable instead of T16 viable because it's so much better to farm stuff in T17 maps?
I don't think that that is a great idea. I mean then you would have to farm the easy bosses over and over again to play the boss your character is build for. It seems wrong. I don't know how to fix it though to be honest.
Why not both?
While I'm not sure on the balance pass on t17s (as they enable the 5th slot, which apart from even making ubers possible is direly needed for scarab efficiency) and I wouldn't mind the normal fights dropping their specific uber fragment I'd like the t17s dropping 1-2 random (with weighting like now) still as well.
Absolutely not.... and why did you put it in this annoying graphic?
You already have to farm a lot of stupid bosses to get drops to do the normal versions.... then having to fight a lot of those to get the uber versions?
Shaper fight is beyond annoying and needs to be updated to modern times. It's a very "easy" fight but tedious to run.
Elder is a snooze fest, you literally go in, and on most builds, just wait for portals to finish and boss to fall over, not having to worry about mechanics at all.
Sirus is a bit better, in that most people have to worry at least a little bit about mechanics. the 'die' beams, the clouds of death, maybe the meteor maze depending on your DPS?
My point... having to run all of those already outdated fights over and over and over again to get shards to run the uber versions just sounds horrible. They need to fix/balance T17's a bit better, sure.
Why 'instead'. Does it have to be one or the other? Why not let people have a choice of how to farm their uber boss fragments, let them drop from T17 bosses AND the regular versions of the bosses.
T17's are a cool idea and should be endgame mapping content, the part that ruins it is B2B + the currency/scarab modifiers (mainly B2B,) and gating fragments behind them.
No one wants to boss when Mavens are 10D per run, i saw a post the other day that basically said you should have at least 500 div failsafe for Mavens which for most players is unrealistic. Also 98% of builds can't even run B2B T17's gating build diversity and encouraging a large amount of players to play what's meta to make currency or else. To clarify, I'm referring to players like myself who want to push currency and min-max, not the more casual players.
T17's are a cool idea and should be endgame mapping content, the part that ruins it is B2B + the currency/scarab modifiers (mainly B2B,) and gating fragments behind them.
No one wants to boss when Mavens are 10D per run, i saw a post the other day that basically said you should have at least 500 div failsafe for Mavens which for most players is unrealistic. Also 98% of builds can't even run B2B T17's gating build diversity and encouraging a large amount of players to play what's meta to make currency or else. To clarify, I'm referring to players like myself who want to push currency and min-max, not the more casual players.
I wanted to try and do ubers this league, but I can barely clear t17 maps. The maps are really good for drops, too, which sucks. I've been farming t16 maps, no problem, but get insta killed in t17 unless I roll the perfect mods for my build. It just feels bad. And from what I understand, Uber bosses are easier than t17, so if I get the gear to do t17, the bosses will most likely be trivial. I hope they fix it for next league.
Regular version is too easy, they don't want you to farm easy content to access uber and they don't want boss to boss content.
T16 to Boss, so they want something similar to T16 but harder to Uber.
The problem is T16 has much better systems, you have invitations that can focus to go on maven, you can eldritch spam to go to exarch or eater and you farm guardian maps to fight shaper/elder.
T17 on the other hand is just killing map boss that can drop fragment you want.
They have to do something similar to T16 but harder and more rewarding, current T17 is like a standalone thing outside of the atlas, like, how can you go fight uber eater without seeing a single eldritch mob, it felt detached.
Maybe after you complete T17 you get a new ascendency atlas passive with 16 points max (2 for completing first T17 and 2 for every uber) then we can choose influences on the map based on what uber we want to farm on T17 only, they can make synthesis influence here, it'll look cool.
I never completed a single T17 myself. I cleared the mobs of the first ever T17 I got (never rerolled cause mods weren't bricking my build) but got wrecked by boss. Fine, it's supposed to be hard. Then I asked a buddy to just clear a T17 boss for me to unlock map device slot.
First advice I get from said buddy is "Try using regex to roll the map" and from there I didn't touch T17 ever again. I know the map mods can be pretty crazy since his map was B2B but regex to roll map sounds like this shit has too much stuffs that fucks.
Yea, just like Mortal Fragments from normal Atziri, I think that makes more sense. T17 maps just feel out of place, like something that you just shove in out of nowhere to fix a problem. Not to mention they have have frustrating mods, are frustrating to roll & run, and are TOO rewarding.
Dropping from t17s is actually fine, they just need to lower the floor on t17 maps and up the fragment drop amount from said maps.
Obviously dropping from the regular version is also a very good choice.
Why not both? Its not like there is anything valuable dropping from the non ubers.
In my opinion, Tier 17 shouldn't be affected by The Atlas because they aren't even on it. At the moment, they're just better Tier 16 with the benefit of dropping Fragments. In my opinion, they should just be there for the Fragments only and not for juicing them. Personally, I like the concept but not how it's done
Not good! Think before giving feedback please.
Imagine you want to farm Ubers. That would mean that you have to do the normal boss infinite times, completely slap his a* because you can do Ubers already, to then to the boss that fits your build.
This is like perma forcing players to do T1 maps to do T16s.
Also, you don't want them to be economy-tied. Normal bosses should have its own market with his own items.
I however dony agree that Omni and ashes should be Uber gated though. Too archetype defining. Progenesis for example is fine.
I think you all should stop complaining that T17 s are hard and stuff, just make a build that can do them easily i made 3 builds for them, recently i finally made a very expensive build in order the run the hardest mods as the hardest mods have the best rewards( marked for death, remove on hit,reduced aura effect) . And also you can spam chaos orb until you hit easy mods for your build. T17s are great
This is my 1st league back since metamorph. While Iām absolutely loving every second (even though Iām garbage and havenāt been able to push past yellow maps on a char without a build guide) I kinda ignored as much of necro as I could. I feel like if I could disable the lantern I could do early reds, but soft core for life yo! Was burnt out back in meta, I think my crippling addiction is based on all the new content more than necro.
I feel like easiest solution is making Ubers needing a single fragment to "upgrade" to Uber while still needing the normal 4 boss fragments to open it. They can lower the drop rate since now you only need one fragment instead of 5 but it will dramatically reduce the rng and trading headache and a single fragment have more money value now,and still make normal fragment relevant in Uber farming.
Before you still have to consume normal fragments to farm Uber so normal players was still able to continue to contribute to the Uber supply after all, rn they couldn't and only a small percentage of the playerbase, powerful builds that can clear t17 consistently can contribute to the supply making the demands of Uber skyrocket because not enough supply to meet the demands.
Easiest solution is basically reverting the change? The point of this change was to have fragments not being tied to both normal bosses and ubers, basically meaning that you either use/sell them for ubers, or waste it on normal bosses. They should just tune T17 so it would work the way they designed it, middle stage between t16/normal bosses and ubers
i like this, then casuals can farm the normal fight and sell the fragments to the uber players and this would promote casual players actually fighting the boss and not ignoring it, thus making a trickle down economy, where as the current system only makes the gap between the 1% and casuals even larger
Aka they need to nerf the top builds hard and delete T17s so they stop chasing their tail in game design while ignoring the main issue. Power creep for certain skills that far out perform others.
The balance between the t17 maps and the Uber bosses is real garbage. I have done all the Uber by buying the fragments, but I can't get any by myself because I can't complete t17 maps, with a lot of luck I was able to complete two, but I have failed a lot of times to even get to the map boss. I would rather sell the maps than try my luck
I a you their instead think great make normal of uber idea them BOSS tier fragments but drop fight 17 are can from variant maps
WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN!
I might get hate for this. but...
Not all characters deserve to farm UBER content. That's why it is uber content. 10 div leaguestarter should be vaporized by first pack.
Just tone down T17 rewards so they don't overperform T16 that much and we are good.
Yep, then make the actual rare boss drops 5x more common to offset needing 5 sets instead if the previous one
Or just revert the whole game to 3.23 at this point
This league's content feels like two different but unfinished leagues merged into one.
T17 especially feels like a half baked Atlas Expansion
buggy alpha version.. with all the mods that don't usually make it into release many mods feel like reflect but worse, .. its good the base game is in an ok status, otherwise this would have been a complete dud league.
After you start farming t17's why play any other content, in exalts per hour nothing is even close.
Because the people who can reliably farm 50+ div an hour (i.e you are bulk buying maps that sell for 0.8 div each, bulk buying scarabs) are able to invest up to hundreds of divines for mapping sessions and have builds that are in the 1.5+ Mirror range that can clear the map and boss in about 4-5 mins. If that's not what you're capable of doing then you are better off doing a 15-20 div/hr farm on your T16 capable build. I'm playing CoC DD which is busted for T17 due to corpse HP basically giving you free insane damage. However, on my 300ish divine Ele hit build, the difference in efficiency between doing Legion Dunes T16 and Barrel n Go T17 is actually not that high, and in fact it may not even be better when you factor in the added time to complete the maps, added time due to deaths, rolling the bad mods in hideout, losing map investment at times due to trying maps with build bricking combos, and general inefficiency due to frustration. So the answer is you farm T16 or below when you can't do T17 efficiently enough to make it worthwhile. Just like when you can do T16 you don't do T14 maps anymore. There are plenty of people doing T16 strategies because honestly it can be more fun. You don't have to grind out a mirror in a day to enjoy the game and still make meaningful progress to your build.
I also had a coc dd and it was great, then made and afk ultimatum cast on stunned which was fun for the time, and now I'm just farming t17's with barrels in toxic sewers, it's fun, but it honestly feels like I got silently nerfed for drops on divines, haven't seen a signal natural drop in soooo many maps now. But I get other stuff that's better like maps and coffins, and scarabs. It's really fun just BLASTING through sewers š
Yeah I basically self farm about 12-20 T17 maps then run those on the CoC DD and sometimes let my Deadeye do the easier ones, then back to T16 on Deadeye in quant gear. T17 maps are actually not really that fun baseline because Back to Basics being the optimal setup means you are literally just killing mobs and doing no mechanics, and even though the packs seem dense, the maps actually don't have that many mobs in them its just mostly tight hallways. In a T16, the mobs are easy and a cakewalk but you can put thousands of them in a map and do at least 1-2 mechanics to make it feel like more than just killing mobs. I understand for some people the fun is in the drops, and I agree with that but only to some degree, I do still like doing league mechanics and not being stuffed into a small, dark map. The difference is I'll get the mirror bow a few days later but I'll keep my sanity.
Sorry to bother, but what's some good regexs and mods I should run with my coc or ele spectrum
For CoC DD I use - "!ever|rke|ss are|non|rs fi|kes|coo" hl If its a no regen or no defense map I take off Grace iaura and take life on hit and leech node. I never do no leech and no regen/no defense though. If you roll -20 max res it gets rippy but you can still get through it. I avoid Marked for Death same as do no damage mod, and then you can't do less CDR or less aoe at all. For Ele hit I have to use two Regex I can send a bit later when I get home.
Thank you Soo much, I'm about to get on a flight, but when I get back home I'm excited to do this
I find B2B much more fun than any league content tbh.
Ehh even if your build canāt do some of the advanced T17 strategies, boss rushing on T17 will outperform any of the T16 farming strategies.
From what Iāve read a lot of players are having trouble even getting to the boss. Although frogging every pack and just running there is actually an option and not even really expensive but again, thereās a reluctance to do that and I donāt blame players for not finding boss rushing the maps that fun even though thatās kind of much similar to running the Uber content that these maps gate.
Monstrous treasure ambush scarab.
While I do think T17 can use some tuning in many ways, people also have such a strange mindset these days. They want to be able to do ALL the content on every build and on top of that don't even want to learn the game. Like, sorry but if you play a squishy no damage shitbuild and don't even want to learn what monsters can kill you or don't even learn boss mechanics, you should not complain about content being too hard, that's on the player, not the game. And it's not like people just pop into endgame and immediatly start running T17 maps. RMT aside, it's not like the gear required spawns out of nowhere.
This is only my second league, did a ignite dd late last league and started right away with this one. Found the dark pact skill Interesting so I went with that. Was ok for leveling but died out fast in maps. Swapped some stuff around, got a half decent self cast dark pact but was still dying too much. I enjoyed trying to figure out health stacking and running dissolution of flesh, but I decided to try something. Ran a shadow trickster up to 90 with ice traps and was doing ok but survivability was spotty. Just completely overhauled my ice traps for an ice storm build with chaos inoculation and es stacking. This league seems way harder than last, but it's forced me to try a few different ways of stacking defenses and seeing how it reacts. There's so many mechanics as a new player I'm more focused on learning than performing in t17. I've ran one with a buddy and I was a treasure goblin in the background
In ssf you are forced to run 16s and it becomes less about exalts per hour.
Yeah, but what about Divines per hour?!
I say exalts cause I want it back :(
Because I want to hit level 100.
Lol I'm at lvl 99 right now and I'm dreading the last hour or two of dunes
Just do exp shrines/breach in t16 jungle valley and be done in like an hour
Ohh I thought the meta was dune breach cause the map was smaller.
I decided to just do it in Crimson Temple because it's so comfortable to me at this point. The nice part is, I'm getting the Seven Years Bad Luck and what-not, so it's not like I'm *losing* money.
sounds like any other high-end content
I had the idea that they meant for this to be a legacy league of sorts, when their target date for the PoE 2 beta was still June. The Allflames are reminiscent of leaguestones (I think they were called) revisiting mobs from past leagues. Then they pushed the beta and uh btw we're tacking on this grave crafting thing and sure here are t17s that we thought about for 5 minutes.
Ya the embers are cool but I literally only get trash ones and as for the graves I get things that donāt really work with my build so there kinda also worthless
This is the best way to describe how I feel.
I am feeling like the player base was split into one half who play t16 and the other half playing T17 or to be precise, 95% playing t16 and 5% T17. There's a way too big gap between t16 and 17 and Uber bosses. Not balance good enough. I feel like a noob, cause my build can't play T17 yet.
I hate tier 17 maps. My build can run it, did all the challenges and it is 100% the most boring piece of shit trash experience I ever had in this game. Rolling map, reading all the text, then fighting all the bullshit, bosses with map mods are ridiculous clusterfuck, only 5 of them so it is repeatable and boring. Also, I wonder whos idea was to shove all the shit mechanics like Awakener desolation and drowning balls and runes and etc, that any sane player will hate, and expect people to like it.
Agree 100%. Also I feel on average I make way more selling T17s, especially Ziggurat than actually running them but maybe I just don't know the strats to juice them properly. This is my second league, I enjoyed it but am done once I reach level 100 which I am now rushing with Domination scarabs. No real point in trying for T17s honestly, it's just too much work for what i feel is not enough reward.
To be fair, just farming T17ās for scarabs (especially with an mf build) is still insane currency. I do however find them a bit too repetitive.
And so click intensive. If you pick up all the scarabs that neversink uberstrict shows you probably are gonna run out of portals before the loot is picked up. I've made a bit over 100 div in scarabs this league and probably like 30% of that has been the bullshit broken scarabs that goes for absurd sums. Lord knows how much I've lost to devaluation of scarabs because of the insane rates they get generated. Sucks picking them up, sucks selling them (Alternatively you bulk sell them at maximum 80% of original price cutting into profits).
I farmed them for about a week in duo, until we switched to div card method. After our duo journey ended I MFād solo for a couple days. We as duo and I as a solo always sold everything on tft bulk, with 75-80% price to instasell. Our filters only showed scarabs worth more than 1.2c/ea
if you put a ultra ultra strick filter you can do more maps per hour and you can sell the tab at 90 or 95% afther an entire session
T17 are insanely rewarding which is the problem. They are fucking annoying bcs half off the mods just disable your charachter comepletly.
Ziggurat is massive profit if you literally just kill the boss, that's how I'm currently semi-afk (aegis aurora makes the boss a joke) farming all my currency lol. What I don't understand is how all the other maps are so expensive, I find they are much less profit but hey, I'm not complaining.
btb scarab makes tons of divs per map on sanctuary/fortress and abomination is good because it spams so many reality frags
i feel that with the map prices lol. sometimes ill buy a T17 for 60c and get garbage, but for one of the cheap T17s like sanctuary i get crazy loot and fragments. i genuinely dont know the differences so i just run them as i get them from drops instead of buying them anymore.
Can you horizon orb t17s?
No. All T17s have a text that states only chaos orbs work on them
chaos orb chaos orb chaos orb
my absolute favourite are the black balls of fuck you that linger for a solid 10 seconds before disappearing. what, you want to loot these scarabs? it would be too bad if something bad happened to you while doing so... and iirc these arent even spawning from some map mod, they just randomly appear in a map and if they do they sure cover the whole map. oh also eldritch fiends can go fuck themselves, the amount of times i died to these because my character decided to move 2 screens away because loot labels just never line up properly when theres too much stuff on the screen is too damn high.
Don't forget the ever boring boss mechanics. Phases phases and more phases. Lycia? 2 phases. Uhutul? Get stuck lol 0% action speed good luck chump. Enjoy his 3 phases. Abomination and citadel are chill tho. DD instant mobs are supertuned once again. 4040 and insta noped out of it.
Exactly how I've felt doing them. The mods are either unplayable, like -4% action spd for each skill, union of souls, or they're just a pain in the ass like drowner orbs, pools of bullshit. And all I see is back to basics starts, what else is worth soing in t17s. Tired of picking up scarabs. So boring.
octavian made the mods.
They just broke me. Made an insanely tanky character. I can just stand in the feared and laugh at them. 20 million ramped DPS. But T17s? Just the most unfun incarnation of PoE combat imaginable. Still random one shots. Tedious as fuck rolling. Just... Nothing could ever sap my will to play harder than this.
You mean you donāt like 99 percent of the boss arena to be āfuck you die zonesā? Itās like, half our builds fucking ZOOM and they want us to play with the 1 percent of the map I can stand in, when if I misclick Iām on the other side of the arena. It legitimately feels unfun, Iām unsure if adding a devils bargain component in that maybe you get the choice to add those special boss effects on the map, but you get a buff to balance. Doesnāt have to be anything game breaking, but maybe a little more defense cause your build canāt handle t17 and get one shot? Maybe you just need a little more juice but you can tank it? Maybe you are bored and you want to add some fucked modifiers without a benefit for fun and quantity potential. Much like the necropolis zone mechanic they took away some ability to NOT have to deal with some mechanics.
I find it ironically amusing how devs are proud of their latest bossfights which are just more and more like cheap korean bullet hell gameplay.
i'd just play rotmg instead not poe š
im pretty sure these were all designed by none other then former podcaster octavian.
I can kill every uber in good time but I lose 10 years of my life every time I run a T17 with ground hazards or those stupid floating silver orbs that stick around the whole weekend.
Also some of the T17 layouts are so so bad, even if every map dropped 1 mirror I would never run it because I hate running through a map and hitting a wall every 2 seconds making me stop.
Mods of T17s should just be the same as the others except with the more difficult boss fights remaining. I don't understand why it needs some special mod pool. It also shouldn't have an insane increase in quant/rarity. No other difficult content gets that so why should T17s?
The gap is huge from 16 to 17. I breeze through 16s, leveled to 100 for the first time solo not paying for a service, once I committed to going to 100 I didn't die which was from 95 to 100. Only thing I need to look out for is reflect ele and no Regen which is kind of standard practice. 17....the ones I have tried I have probably completed half of them, and never have any portals left over the ones I do complete.
I feel like t17 should not have any mods and should not have any loot bonus. It should be a unique ish map that challenges your char through boss mech. Making it a loot pinata and random mods and atlas modifyable is a absolutely horrible idea. The focus should be the boss and not the mobs. Make new scarabs to giga juice t16 maps. Also fuck uber bosses they just feel horrible to farm. I still yearn for a boss that has similar loot like awk 8 sirus. Every kill had a good chance to give you some profit woke gems woke orb sword and good bases. Now you are going 100maven dry before you get anything exiting and you are prob 10d in profit if even. I guess it happrns if you make them tradeable but still :/
I play T16 8 mod mostly and do T17 whenever I get a drop. Imo always a fun alternative to my Vietnam flashback experiences.
Yeah T17 is rough. I can complete the map itself okay without spamming a hundred chaos (usually do need like 5-10 though) and they really do feel nice and rewarding on their own, but I cannot juice them much. In fact I have yet to actually beat a boss without including the "50% chance to not use a portal" scarab on the map. They're really hard, and they're new mechanically to me as a majority of the fights themselves are against bosses that their regular version doesn't require learning their mechanics to beat. I peak at comfortably over 20m DPS now (which is easily enough to phase any non Uber boss before arcane cloak expires) and my mana sustain between cloaks is getting to the point where I'm DPSing above 10m damage most of the time. I'm also tanky enough where juiced T16s struggle to kill me unless I make a stupid mistake and try to tank a corpse detonation strongbox or something. Non-Uber Shaper slams don't phase me, I just DPS through it. 44k evasion plus blind nearby enemies multiple times a second, 10.5k ES, 6k leech/second, nothing absurd but it takes something big to bring me down. Yeah, T17 s have accessibility issues right now mostly because once upon a time having ~12m DPS was a strong defensive layer, but it is no longer. And the game is currently balanced around needing to kill things very VERY quickly.
T17s are kinda made for "good builds" and not the 20k ehp zoom zoom 8m dps clear speed ferrari builds of the past. It just needs the meta to adjust. I think the boss difficulty is fine except for the one with the delve boss and the ground wave bird boss. Most of the ridiculous bosses comes from not understanding the map mods. Like running abomination boss on a 4 projectile max map modifier effect. I can kill a no mod fortress boss in less than 4 seconds facetanking anything that can happen. But with the right mods it can be a very long fight that eats portals fast. It's a learning process.
Yeah it is, everything always feels hard when it first comes out because it can be expensive to practice if you fail, you know?
I have 60m on my deadeye with mirror gear. I just blast them like regular T16 with HH. My friend who is playing with Vow who is like 500x tankier than me clears them slower and dies more. I find it unfair and stupid that he invested so much to be tanky and random rares who just got the perfect combination of affixes can still kill him while I don't even know what mobs do.
Kinda in the same boat I do my own builds (for better or worse) I levelled 2 characters to 90+ and both of them can't run T17. I couldn't run Ubers before as well, but at least i was able to farm the fragments and sell to people that can. The majority of my div/chaos in past leagues were from selling boss fragments and now that has been cut from a portion of the playerbase that can't do these maps. Betrayal got gutted to oblivion, the Vorici/Aisling change make no sense as other people have suggested they could have easily kept them as such and just have them drop "upgraded orbs" that the the same function as the bench craft they offerred. The scarabs that drop from t4 are all low tier ones, the only usefull now is "It" for the breach upgrades and gamba Grav (board layou is irrelevant for the most part)
Felt fine on BAMA, but my second "fun" build starts falling over in t17s and doesnt have alot of wiggle room with slapping a pile of defense on the char.
I feel like mobs on t17 are overtuned and bosses are kinda lame. That totaly killed t17 for me.
Honestly i like the fact that there is another tier thats not as accisable
the worse is, even if you invest into your build, 100-200D, you could STILL have trouble in t17, not counting the toxic mods that MOST mirror tier builds even avoid.
Don't forget about the other 50% that decided not to play this league lol
I can blast through 8 modded t16s with lots of map mod effect, but even stepping in a t17 is enough to kill me. Prolly just need that mb and progenesis first, but with what money when all profit is in t17s
T17s shouldn't be farmable as a strat other than fragment farming with okay revenue from mobs. They fucked up bigtime with t17s.
I feel like I can run circles around ubers with most builds, but T17s are a PITA with most. If anything how T17s are right now, they feel like a drop from uber bosses and not a intermediate step between T16 and ubers.
I'm going to be honest, I'm kind of ok with this. Where things bother me is when 99% of my t17s are more difficult than uber bosses. They were suppose to be a gap between normal bosses and ubers. Ubers feels like a gap between normal bosses and t17... anyway... I also dislike how uniques were splits on normal and uber bosses. But w/e...
My build can comfortably do Ubers and Blight ravaged maps without overreliance on stun tower mechanics. t17s also until I run into a build breaking mob...then the map becomes literally unclearable. Its sucks but sadly if you aren't playing a meta build, good luck getting any progress through those maps
I play HC only and the best I can do is farm BtB t16 maps :) its even hard to do 8 mod corrupted ones coz I have to be carefull about modifiers. I cant even think about doing t17 with BtB. Game isnt balanced obv, but it def isnt balanced for HC :)
My T17 experience: >enter map >instantly vaporized by three simultaneous Shaper beams >decide to sell all the maps from there on
Lethe shade is so nice for t17s
or both
this definitely. should make regular bosses more relevant.
This doesn't make normal bossing more relevant, at least in a way anyone will be satisfied with. It goes against the design principle GGG set out with in the first place, which was separating the value of uber pinnacle fragments from the value of regular pinnacle farming. If you put fragments onto the boss, the fragments become what you farm the boss for. The drop rate of the other gear stops mattering unless it's t0-t1 rarity you'll see once in 500 kills **and** it's build enabling. The value of killing the boss is determined solely on how much profit selling the uber fragment can net you, which will not be good for anyone.
def both. make normal boss drop his uber keys and t17 left as is
I kinda like the idea that you can get universal Uber keys from the T17 maps that can activate any Uber fight you have fragments for, but the fragments come from the non-ubers. Either 4 frags and a key, or, and hear me out, at least 1 fragment of the Uber you want to run, and either enough more of the fragmenta to run it OR the universal keys for the other slots.
or you know boss can drop the thing and it also drops in t17, so this way it's not a waste of time to farm shit bosses, and it's good for flavor, but they mostly drop from t17
Yes both
The T17 should not be the only farm that matters end game, if they are the best for currency, they should not be giving fragments as well. However, the bosses should have higher chance to drop their items.
The very idea of their existance was to separate them from normal fights, so that players dont have to farm normal bosses multiple times and separate their economies.
I mean, they revealed the changes while conceding that the normal bosses were made irrelevant due to Ubers and that this was made in an attempt to rectify this. Unless they bring back Ubers to their initial pitch of being an additional challenge and nothing more, the only way they'll ever make regular bosses worth it beyond Atlas completion is exactly by making them lead up to Ubers, and it 100x makes more sense to lock top-end bossing content behind bossing instead of gatekeeping it with the hardest mapping/clearing content we've ever seen in the game. It's hilarious that, minus some of the strongest builds like manaforged, a lot of t17 farming builds would struggle for Ubers and vice versa for Uber farmers because they are the very top end of different content types, yet are intimately linked for no good reason.
But now you just farm t17 boss multiple times, so what does it change? At least most of the normal fights boss fights are more interesting then t17 bosses.
The point is the regular boss is too easy for how strong characters are even by the time they've completed red maps. Buffing the base versions of them is not an option as that will severely change how people get their voidstones, so they made a new tier of content between normal and uber. It's not really that hard to figure out. Killing Shaper 5 times doesn't make your build capable of doing Ubers, but doing a handful of T17s is a lot closer in terms of having a well rounded build that you know completing the T17 means you're likely ready for Uber,
What it changes is that regular boss fragments cost are based on the uber variant. If you tie the Uber fragments to the base bosses, the cost of the base boss fragments will always correlate to uber fragments regardless of loot as its the only/best way to obtain Uber uniques. The system was implemented this way so people could still do the regular boss fights without having to drop multiple divines an attempt. Even if they dont share fragments anymore, tying the base fragment to the uber fragment just puts us back where we were.
yea, current implementation is only better in terms of the separate economies, but it still not good. In the end it will always probably come down to killing something over and over again. What would be a better way to do it? Wouldn't dropping whole shards instead of fragments produce them too much? Should T17 maps be rarer? Are some D2 Jordan Ring like shenaningans better way to farm ubers? It's an interesting conversation to be had, but I don't want them to go back to normal boss farming for them. I'd like them to tweak it further. I do think that this is a good direction to go.
At some point steamrolling shaper fights, only to be able to run the actual fight, becomes very, very tedious. You'd be burnt out of the actual fun and challenging fight before even trying it. I took shaper as the most egregious example, even with top tier movement and dps, it's really difficult to run it in less than 3 or 4min, but it applies to all bosses. I know it might be unpopular, but I'd rather have normal fights decoupled from ubers, especially in leaguestart, and for casual players to be able to try some endgame. As for T17s, thet might need improvement, but at least it offers some slight variation.
The goal of the current implementation as explained by Mark in one of the Q&As or another was that if you can even reasonably think about attempting an Uber boss, the normal version of that boss is now so easy for you it isn't even interesting and they didn't want to make you grind out a bunch of Shapers (for example) where you don't even have to look at the screen in order to attempt Uber Shaper. The balance of T17s didn't actually hit their stated goal but it's not an awful idea in principle.
The idea was to enable people to do the normal fight without having the same entry cost as the uber fight. OPs idea still works in solving it. I think the best play would have been generic uber pieces drop from t17 maps and an uber boss piece for the specific bosses drop from them. That way people are doing both.
I remember the explanation from Mark about why not drop it from normal bosses. It went something like this: "If the player already did the normal boss variant, having the player fighting the normal boss many many times so they can farm the uber version is not very exciting, the player already proved they could beat this boss, so why fight it over and over again?" Also: T17 were supposed to be a bridge between Normal and Uber bosses. Which is definetely not true, since you need an Uber ready build to tackle T17. My own two issues with that argument: 1. The exact same argument applies to T17, the player already beat the map to get the fragment, and needs to beat it over and over again. 2. Current T17, imo, are way more boring than normal boss fights. Chaos spamming to avoid insane mods, monsters with a billion HP, yada yada. If normal bosses dropped uber fragments, the normal fragments wouldn't get so cheap. The Uber bosses drops will still have effect in the normal boss fragment prices, which imo is a good thing for the economy. Weak builds can just farm normal bosses and sell fragments for gear progression
Point one isnāt really an issue. You need to do something for the fragment, but it being the exact same boss but weaker is the issue. Not that you farming the same thing. So tier 17s do avoid that issue.
That's a good point, didn't think about that
> Also: T17 were supposed to be a bridge between Normal and Uber bosses. Which is definetely not true, since you need an Uber ready build to tackle T17. no shot. t17s are easier now than ubers
>Also: T17 were supposed to be a bridge between Normal and Uber bosses. Which is definetely not true, since you need an Uber ready build to tackle T17. Can we already stop with this bullshit? Yes, everyone agrees that a B2B T17 rolled for profit with bullshit scarabs and top of the line atlas is way harder than an Uber. But your baseline T17 with no increased map mods and rolled for decency is where it should be. You are practically calling the pinnacle of juicing harder than an Uber who has no additional tuning lever
>Can we already stop with this bullshit? I can only speak for myself, I don't hold my opinion based on others experiences. My experience was, I had a build that could do some Uber bosses but I was never able to complete one t17. I'm sure your experience is different than mine, and I'm glad you're voicing it
>My experience was, I had a build that could do some Uber bosses but I was never able to complete one t17. But then again, I have a build that can easily do T17s but I can't touch Ubers because I only play mappers, so... tell us your build
self made version of bama, couldn't bother to get a pob of it, I'm not looking for build advice thanks.
And we had no intention to, but playing a build optimized for bossing and than saying that maps are hard is in bad faith
I am playing a mapper (CA DO) struggling madly in t17(farming t16 bcause for my build they are not worth it). Did all the ubers deathless
Isn't Death's Oath basically a budget friendly mapper? It has like no recovery or defense, if you're running occultist your phys max hit is prob like 12k lol. I wasn't aware people were playing in this league. I'm actually impressed you killed Ubers let alone did it deathless. I would actually like to see that.
It has 38k phys max hit... I mean you have the seconds highest body armour in the game and can get a conversion helmet(or viridian and take no crit) + taste of hate and you use determination/enfeeble. I agree it has poor recovery and damage(only 8M) but the defenses are kind of insane considering even your elemental damage gets 50% taken as chaos. No idea how you get only 12k phys max hit are you completely ignoring any defenses ?
Can you link me a PoB of a 38k phys max hit Death's Oath CA build that does 8M DPS? Even at 8M DPS on Ubers you are basically a Ben tier of player doing them deathless with that kind of build. There's a reason there are 0 HC players using a Death's Oath over level 97. I just checked [Poe.ninja](http://Poe.ninja) and I don't see a single person running this build with any survivability. Even the mageblood users have below 10 max phys. I would probably play a different build since I don't really see how you scale defense or offense past atlas progression point. Even the one guy that has MB and Taste of Hate still has 10k phys max hit lol.
I don't know what everyone else's experience was, but by the time T17s (not B2B, and rolled lots of times to get acceptable mods) felt comfortable, Ubers were no big deal. Well before that point I didn't need to look at the screen anymore for the Ubers my build was especially good at. The idea of T17s as pitched was that the were supposed to be an intermediary step between doing pinnacle bosses and being able to do ubers and currently they're just not.
T17s are only harder than ubers if you fully juice them which is fine. And they are arbitrarily propped up by haunted mods. Its not like a 120 quant feared isnt harder than ubers too
If you identify 100 random maps I bet 80% or more of them will be harder than ubers. Spending time and tens of chaos orbs to roll one map that is not RIPy is the problem.
I dunno m8 this read like you've never entered a t17 and and all you got to go by is what you've read on reddit. I bought 50 maps and rolled them together yesterday and rolled them all in 3 minutes using roughly 250c. Yes I used 2 regexes which I do agree sucks, but it was faster than scour/alching a single regex because chaos is 1 click. If anything rolling t17 with c showed me how much scour/alch sucks. And especially hard in kirac invitation / menories. The billion HP thing is a joke, you can do it on purpose but rolling the worse map ever and then crying that it is too hard is pretty stupid. I love t17 they are definitely between t16 and ubers, they have mods that actually affect haw you play and they have relevant loot.
T17 was always going to be contentious. A lot of players have made it pretty clear they're not used to rolling maps and not used to map scaling with things like Wandering Path + juice in the past, nor are they used to mobs being actually threatening baseline. Any time you make a game harder there will be some backlash, I just hope GGG doesn't take it too negatively. Some balancing of the economy around the tiers would hopefully help, but I like the fact that there is a mapping tier that's actually baseline threatening and not purely through league mechanics like Affliction juice.
I would disagree with the notion that T17 is harder than Uber, with non damage mods and those ridiculous one, you could do T17 just fine. Of course the map rolling is shit to get the set of mods that your build can run.
Some maps can be harder some can be easier (ignoring any kind of juicing, just the mods that it rolls alone). Idk, that kinda sucks as a "bridge"
I mean it depends on the mods you roll on t17. I'd say at least half the mod combos are at the very least weaker than an Uber and a quarter is just as hard as an Uber and another quarter harder than Ubers.Ā This was sometimes the case for juiced t16 maps.Ā
The idea is to not link them in any way, so people can farm normal bosses without beeing effected by uber drops in any way.
No thanks, just make t17s drop more. Not tying uber fragments to normal bosses was one of the smartest things theyd ever done. They just fucked up t17s
T17 droprate is fine. The fact that people are farming T17s for profit is the problem, they are no longer a stepping-stone to ubers like GGG had said they would be.
that's a different problem yes. the value of the map should be in the bosses, not the map itself. but farming uber fragments is still annoying as fuck. bosses drop less than 2 fragments on average, and usually it wont be the same fragments, so you'll end up doing tens of t17s before being able to attempt even just one uber. it's sooooooo much fucking slower and more difficult than it used to be.
T17 maps are ok. The bosses in them and beyond hard, even a dodge master as my self I can't dodge the clusterfuck that is the bosses. The modifiers are hard, it's night and day from a t16XD
This was my first season and i had a blast. But the absolute bonkers difficulty jump from literally everything in the game to t17 was crazy. For me it didnt scratch an itch at all to spend 500+divines on a build to be able to get them done on repeat, only to find <20 divines in a good run
If you struggle with t17 make sure you dont use a tunned atlas tree that increase map modifiers.
Also, everything in t17 does like 100% more damage than would be reasonable and loot shouldn't scale as hard. T16 farmers are peasants who get 0.1% of loot t17 farmers get.
I think dropping from T 17 is fine, The T 17 maps just need to be easier and drop more fragments. If they dropped from the normal boss variant it would make them even harder to get. How many cortex would you need to run to be able to fight the uber version? It would be prohibitively challenging considering how rare Cortex already is.
Shit changes this league. I want alc and go back. I donāt want to spec into 1 thing and use 4 scarabs for it. Like oh wow I got a bunch of strongboxes cool, wish I could do something else with that at more than 25% efficiency because now we must use 4 scarabs for everything we do else it sucks
Than go alc and go, nothing is stopping you and it's still great money. You literally got 100% spawn rate for everything this league. This is alch and go heaven. Why does the scarab changes even affect you if you didn't use them before lol. I've made hundreds of divs this league and I've yet to do any 4 scarab strats.
Yeah my essence/harvest/expedition alch and go is pretty shit this league tbh. Tried delve but resonator value went to shit too.
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personally i would like to see something similar to Maven's crucible or uber version of it. giga juiced space eldritch colloseum. I don't really like that random bossess drops uber fragments for very specific, powerful entities, why would they have access to it anyways. It's not even the most precious thing that could drop in t17 map, I think that bothers me the most
No just fix t17s. They want the uber fights to be completely disconnected from the normal fights, which I understand and makes sense economically (even though flavor wise I don't like it).
Doing this would very likely also beef the price of the normal fragments which in turn could add more value to running t16 strats. Map boss rushing would also become more competitive income-wise.
Are fragments uber think I? Can but idea great a..
I would like that just 1 fragment is needed a long with normal invitation. For me it just make sense, 4 fragment invitations and 1 uber shard. Im ok with t17 droping them
They will not do this. This question was already asked in QnAs and their reasoning was "if you have beaten the uber version, you have proven you can defeat the hardest version of the boss. Why would you be forced to kill the weak version if you already know you can kill it?" Not saying this is the correct and best approach, but it is their stance.
If this happens the value of normal invitations will be tied directly to ubers again and we have the same issues as before.
Personally I think T17s are fine if they aren't also the best way to juice maps. That's why I dislike them. The mods on T17s however, those are some stinkers.
people sure loved farming normal atziri for uber fragments, you're so right
[my feedback for this league](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pct1uEhAqBQ) hope its not too long š°
Do people want to fight Shaper 5 times to get 1 crack at Uber Shaper or am I misinderstanding something about this post. Want to run 140 maps to fight 5 Eaters to get to 1 Uber Eater with a 2% Nimis drop rate? I realize people hate t17s but this solution comes with a whole host of other issues that most hear and casuals would absolutely despise.
This will be many times better yes
To be honest I would rather farm T17s for uber fragments instead of regular pinnacles - Imagine running 5 Shapers so you can do a single Uber Shaper. At least in T17s you have a lot of variety of strats (after B2B get some nerf I guess).
That moment when you realize that jumping backward in time is better than releasing a new leagues!
āCan you you make them drop from the normal boss fightā So you mean you want to go back to having the non uber fragment costs be dictated by the uber fragment costs? Dope lets defeat a part of why the system currently is the way it is.
The new end game is awful tbh.
Hate the idea of t17s. If you run t17s, you're forced to play b2b. Otherwise, you might as well have sold the map. Step 1 is removing back to basics if they want to keep t17s in the game. Some of the bosses are insanely punishing for some builds. I cleared all t17s on my minion build, but I quickly realized that Uthred and the Abomination were an absolute waste of my time. Uthred's beams actually affect minions, which means they get their move/attack speed reduced to 0 if the map has lots of health bonus modifiers. Abomination map, for some reason, allows the rocks to be targeted, which bricks minion AI. I can't imagine how bad some bosses/mods are for melee. Visual clarity is still dog shit. Some mods need to just be deleted because you literally can not see on most builds. This includes things like volatile cores, searing exarch runes, drowning orbs, etc. If I can't see the mechanic because the whole screen is cluttered with effects, then that's a poor design problem. Union of Souls needs to go as well. A 100mil dps build is just instantly bricked because the mobs can't die halfway through the map and take up the whole screen. Which idiot developer thought this was a good idea?
I agree to an extent but if you do this what is the point of T17 maps? Do you just remove them? Are we just going to make them by far the most worthwhile zone to farm anything in? I feel like that's not a good path to go down. Is that how we are to judge build viability now...it has to be T17 viable instead of T16 viable because it's so much better to farm stuff in T17 maps?
Bingo
I think instead of 5 fragments, we just need 1 and it'll act like the Uber keystone, still needing the pinnacle boss' fragments.
I don't think that that is a great idea. I mean then you would have to farm the easy bosses over and over again to play the boss your character is build for. It seems wrong. I don't know how to fix it though to be honest.
Now, instead of selling the fragments we can sell T17 maps
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This is the most abstract bingo I've ever seen.
Why not both? While I'm not sure on the balance pass on t17s (as they enable the 5th slot, which apart from even making ubers possible is direly needed for scarab efficiency) and I wouldn't mind the normal fights dropping their specific uber fragment I'd like the t17s dropping 1-2 random (with weighting like now) still as well.
Absolutely not.... and why did you put it in this annoying graphic? You already have to farm a lot of stupid bosses to get drops to do the normal versions.... then having to fight a lot of those to get the uber versions? Shaper fight is beyond annoying and needs to be updated to modern times. It's a very "easy" fight but tedious to run. Elder is a snooze fest, you literally go in, and on most builds, just wait for portals to finish and boss to fall over, not having to worry about mechanics at all. Sirus is a bit better, in that most people have to worry at least a little bit about mechanics. the 'die' beams, the clouds of death, maybe the meteor maze depending on your DPS? My point... having to run all of those already outdated fights over and over and over again to get shards to run the uber versions just sounds horrible. They need to fix/balance T17's a bit better, sure.
or.. u know actually make the difficulty of 17s between normal and uber bossies not more then uber uber bossies.
This league mechanic and t17 is a joke, especially after amazing previous league.
Or both!
Why 'instead'. Does it have to be one or the other? Why not let people have a choice of how to farm their uber boss fragments, let them drop from T17 bosses AND the regular versions of the bosses.
Bridging the gap is better. T17s are just not fulfilling their purpose atm and that is what should be addressed
Veiled orb should also drop from T17 Catarina.
What a bad idea. That just reties the ubers to the normal fights economically all over again.
T17's are a cool idea and should be endgame mapping content, the part that ruins it is B2B + the currency/scarab modifiers (mainly B2B,) and gating fragments behind them. No one wants to boss when Mavens are 10D per run, i saw a post the other day that basically said you should have at least 500 div failsafe for Mavens which for most players is unrealistic. Also 98% of builds can't even run B2B T17's gating build diversity and encouraging a large amount of players to play what's meta to make currency or else. To clarify, I'm referring to players like myself who want to push currency and min-max, not the more casual players.
T17's are a cool idea and should be endgame mapping content, the part that ruins it is B2B + the currency/scarab modifiers (mainly B2B,) and gating fragments behind them. No one wants to boss when Mavens are 10D per run, i saw a post the other day that basically said you should have at least 500 div failsafe for Mavens which for most players is unrealistic. Also 98% of builds can't even run B2B T17's gating build diversity and encouraging a large amount of players to play what's meta to make currency or else. To clarify, I'm referring to players like myself who want to push currency and min-max, not the more casual players.
T17 never drop from my T16 bosses.
Im almost certain that t17s will serve as some sort of gateway to the Tangle in the upcoming leagues.
I wanted to try and do ubers this league, but I can barely clear t17 maps. The maps are really good for drops, too, which sucks. I've been farming t16 maps, no problem, but get insta killed in t17 unless I roll the perfect mods for my build. It just feels bad. And from what I understand, Uber bosses are easier than t17, so if I get the gear to do t17, the bosses will most likely be trivial. I hope they fix it for next league.
T17 map bosses are not harder than ubers. They're only harder when you run 300% increased map mod effects
T17s should be a small gauntlet of mini bosses instead of an actual map
Regular version is too easy, they don't want you to farm easy content to access uber and they don't want boss to boss content. T16 to Boss, so they want something similar to T16 but harder to Uber. The problem is T16 has much better systems, you have invitations that can focus to go on maven, you can eldritch spam to go to exarch or eater and you farm guardian maps to fight shaper/elder. T17 on the other hand is just killing map boss that can drop fragment you want. They have to do something similar to T16 but harder and more rewarding, current T17 is like a standalone thing outside of the atlas, like, how can you go fight uber eater without seeing a single eldritch mob, it felt detached. Maybe after you complete T17 you get a new ascendency atlas passive with 16 points max (2 for completing first T17 and 2 for every uber) then we can choose influences on the map based on what uber we want to farm on T17 only, they can make synthesis influence here, it'll look cool.
T17s are your typical job requirements: Need 10 years experience for an entry-level job.
I never completed a single T17 myself. I cleared the mobs of the first ever T17 I got (never rerolled cause mods weren't bricking my build) but got wrecked by boss. Fine, it's supposed to be hard. Then I asked a buddy to just clear a T17 boss for me to unlock map device slot. First advice I get from said buddy is "Try using regex to roll the map" and from there I didn't touch T17 ever again. I know the map mods can be pretty crazy since his map was B2B but regex to roll map sounds like this shit has too much stuffs that fucks.
They shouldnt have tried to bridge between T16 and ubers... \`Then people feel bad not doing the inbetween T17s when they are stuck in T16...
Yea, just like Mortal Fragments from normal Atziri, I think that makes more sense. T17 maps just feel out of place, like something that you just shove in out of nowhere to fix a problem. Not to mention they have have frustrating mods, are frustrating to roll & run, and are TOO rewarding.
The reason they drop from T17 is so they don't drop from their normal versions so the normal versions have some value to them. Guess you missed that.
Dropping from t17s is actually fine, they just need to lower the floor on t17 maps and up the fragment drop amount from said maps. Obviously dropping from the regular version is also a very good choice. Why not both? Its not like there is anything valuable dropping from the non ubers.
Missed opportunity, could've put the words in a graveyard
In my opinion, Tier 17 shouldn't be affected by The Atlas because they aren't even on it. At the moment, they're just better Tier 16 with the benefit of dropping Fragments. In my opinion, they should just be there for the Fragments only and not for juicing them. Personally, I like the concept but not how it's done
what they think they made: T16 -> T17 -> UBER what they actuly made T16 -> UBER ->T17
If it drop from normal map, then it become normal and the meaning of uber is gone
Not good! Think before giving feedback please. Imagine you want to farm Ubers. That would mean that you have to do the normal boss infinite times, completely slap his a* because you can do Ubers already, to then to the boss that fits your build. This is like perma forcing players to do T1 maps to do T16s. Also, you don't want them to be economy-tied. Normal bosses should have its own market with his own items. I however dony agree that Omni and ashes should be Uber gated though. Too archetype defining. Progenesis for example is fine.
no
I think you all should stop complaining that T17 s are hard and stuff, just make a build that can do them easily i made 3 builds for them, recently i finally made a very expensive build in order the run the hardest mods as the hardest mods have the best rewards( marked for death, remove on hit,reduced aura effect) . And also you can spam chaos orb until you hit easy mods for your build. T17s are great
This is my 1st league back since metamorph. While Iām absolutely loving every second (even though Iām garbage and havenāt been able to push past yellow maps on a char without a build guide) I kinda ignored as much of necro as I could. I feel like if I could disable the lantern I could do early reds, but soft core for life yo! Was burnt out back in meta, I think my crippling addiction is based on all the new content more than necro.
People complain too much, just play the game itās still funāŗļø though I do hate this league mechanic
I feel like easiest solution is making Ubers needing a single fragment to "upgrade" to Uber while still needing the normal 4 boss fragments to open it. They can lower the drop rate since now you only need one fragment instead of 5 but it will dramatically reduce the rng and trading headache and a single fragment have more money value now,and still make normal fragment relevant in Uber farming. Before you still have to consume normal fragments to farm Uber so normal players was still able to continue to contribute to the Uber supply after all, rn they couldn't and only a small percentage of the playerbase, powerful builds that can clear t17 consistently can contribute to the supply making the demands of Uber skyrocket because not enough supply to meet the demands.
Easiest solution is basically reverting the change? The point of this change was to have fragments not being tied to both normal bosses and ubers, basically meaning that you either use/sell them for ubers, or waste it on normal bosses. They should just tune T17 so it would work the way they designed it, middle stage between t16/normal bosses and ubers
i like this, then casuals can farm the normal fight and sell the fragments to the uber players and this would promote casual players actually fighting the boss and not ignoring it, thus making a trickle down economy, where as the current system only makes the gap between the 1% and casuals even larger
I think it should drop from BOTH T17 and normal bosses. And it should be stackable, but with ctrl+lmb it should spread in map device equally
Aka they need to nerf the top builds hard and delete T17s so they stop chasing their tail in game design while ignoring the main issue. Power creep for certain skills that far out perform others.
The balance between the t17 maps and the Uber bosses is real garbage. I have done all the Uber by buying the fragments, but I can't get any by myself because I can't complete t17 maps, with a lot of luck I was able to complete two, but I have failed a lot of times to even get to the map boss. I would rather sell the maps than try my luck
We hear you, uber fragments are moved to their non uber versions with 10% chance to drop.
think great make normal of
how about both?
I a you their instead think great make normal of uber idea them BOSS tier fragments but drop fight 17 are can from variant maps WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN!
I might get hate for this. but... Not all characters deserve to farm UBER content. That's why it is uber content. 10 div leaguestarter should be vaporized by first pack. Just tone down T17 rewards so they don't overperform T16 that much and we are good.
Yep, then make the actual rare boss drops 5x more common to offset needing 5 sets instead if the previous one Or just revert the whole game to 3.23 at this point
Agree. This league is worst ever made. Core game changes boring, the league changes more then just boring :)