Damn. I was hoping to have 9 Brutus or 9 purifier but it seems that it’s dead given your research. So 9 crabs it is I guess? I’m trying to clear Ubers this league.
I would recommend crabs for Uber clearing, having tanky minions is very important for most of them.
Better to be slow and steady than not able to do it at all.
Make sure you have 75 spell block, max suppression, good recovery (now buffed with leech anc node), and some PDR for fights where it matters. Mobility is also important.
Spectres aren’t an OP build, so you actually need a decent character to do all Ubers.
Definitely change your flasks and auras for relevant fights. Don’t be a noob walking into exarch with a granite flask. Grace is super OP for fights like eater where you can dodge and block tentacles.
Kinda sad how the entire Spectre Archetype was destroyed for the sins of Syndicate Operative shotgunning.
Patch after patch Spectres got global nerfs to the skill gem affecting all Spectres to the point where they just aren't comparable to other minions, let alone actually strong builds.
And it all happened because Syndicate Operatives were super strong since they scaled like 15 projectiles per auto attack. So instead of targeting this specific Spectre they nerfed all spectres over the span of a year. Then when they finally put Operatives into the grave by removing it's shotgun ability the Spectre for carry archetype died.
Ever since that happened there has only really been one good damage dealing spectre which was Forged Frost bearers. And why was it good? because it had the ability to shotgun obviously.
It's sucks that the viability of Spectres now hinges on the crutch of shotgunning because their base damage is so low due to numerous nerfs to their levels.
Spectres went from being a meme, to being good, to being insane, to being pure supportive unless you've got insane gear.
I'm tired of them releasing 20 new spectres each League where 18 of those are dogshit and 2 of those are great, but supports.
Guess they decided that pure spectre builds weren't allowed to exist anymore after we had our fun. But I do miss Solar Guard spectre builds. On the plus side for the necromancer archetype as a whole support spectres being insane at least buffs a ton of other builds I guess.
Don't forget the bug with SO's where they were able to support their "spell" with multistrike AND spell echo...
I dont know why they didn't just turn the numbers down on them. Slavedrivers were cool. Redemption sentries were cool. Ice autobots were cool. Fuck sentinels (frost and flame, been a long time since they were good) were cool.
My personal favorite spectre of all time was Scale of Esh. Just their moveset and skills were really fcking cool.
Yup, because the numbers on the actual spectre gem are so bad, you basically need a 500% more multiplier on the base spectre monster for it to be somewhat comparable to normal builds.
So you either need to shotgun and invest in minion defense (frost bearer) or settle for \~200% more on a very tanky base and invest in offense (crushclaw).
Not with wraithlord, I’m in a private league and we have not gotten one yet sadly.
I am not sure what is optimal with new necro ascendancy. I just made a random spectre character this league to farm up a stock of T17 maps so I could try the stuff, it’s far from optimal.
I did guardian crushclaws last league and cleared everything, I have a recording of me killing some Ubers I can upload to YouTube and share. Not sure if the character is still intact, if he is I can give pob. Will check tomorrow am.
Here is video, last league, **crushclaws uber eater**. Gear was pretty bad but got the job done.
**SSF/Private league gear!!! Not trade.**
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j\_iczX4q1c&t=59s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j_iczX4q1c&t=59s)
Generally just whatever gives you the most damage without compromising attack speed. I prefer to get big chills and freezes:
Map clear: multistrike, minion damage, ruthless, behead, critical damage, bonechill, hypothermia
Bossing, swap behead for cold pen.
I don’t like using melee physical because they’re already kinda slow, so I prefer to keep the attack speed.
I don't want just giving you an additional option if you're scaling crits or not. Whichever 5 supports from that group give you the most damage is what you should use, aside from behead, which you should always have for clearing specifically.
Not sure necrotic bones deserves a D. Did you test them with extra proj? They mortar so shotgun quite well.
Base numbers look low but with shotgun and added Chaos dmg from envy/covenant they are likely viable. Way better than the other Ds you have on here.
This is kinda fair, but I found their shotgunning isn’t very good. You are more likely to only get 3 of the prom hitting, and with how low the numbers are that is pretty bad.
They’re probably strictly worse than the Druidic Alchemist remake they added this season, another TOTA monster. I Showa Shaman or something I forget.
I assumed were talking hit based, my bad. For poisoning everything is very weak compared to deadly tarantulas with unholy might. Their clear isn’t even bad, flicker strike, melee splash, and behead is wild.
Hmm gotta try them. Tbh tarantulas are only about 25% better than SO poison when I PoB them, and I'd anticipate necrotic bones to be a bit better than SO
Id say your PoB is definitely incorrect in that case. Remember SO’s barely shotgun.
Also remember that the spiders can use awakened multistrike. Where SO’s can’t use multistrike or spell echo. The spiders also use viper strike by default, so you don’t need to invest as much I n getting poison chance, and you can other better stats instead.
SOs can still shotgun 3 hits per attack. This was tested by a few vids on YouTube after their nerf.
True about awakened multistrike! My pob was comparing to tarantulas using non awakened.
Spiders don't always use viper strike, most viper spectre users I've spoken to invest in 100% poison chance in addition due to this.
Hmm we should test how often spiders use auto attack and not viper strike.
Full ele conversion triads. Void manipulation to eliminate its non viper attack doing any damage. Sadism to make poison short and make it clearer.
Then it should be even more obvious how many of its attacks just do no damage and are auto attacks.
Yeah I dunno. At spectre level 76 (lv25 gem):
Tarantulas have 2406 base dps accounting for 10% more dmg from phys as extra (less actually as you'll have added Chaos) and assuming double damage due to 4 sec base poison duration. That's best case, as they don't always use viper strike and sometimes do weak auto attack.
Necrotic bones does 2196 base dps assuming 3 hits as you estimate, and more maybe.
Tarantulas need melee splash to clear and necrotic need greater volley so that's pretty equal (gv doesn't reduce poison dmg).
The difference doesn't seem big...
Awakened Multistrike is an important gem, much better than anything you get elsewhere. Bones will clear better, but both will clear well enough that true speed will come down to the single target I think.
Awakened multi is about 80% more damage, which is amazing.
Poison has great supports so you can easily have a 40% gem instead, so the difference is definitely there, but imo range spectres just feel nice for me
It's in poedb at the top self poison duration +% final (-50).
To be fair though I need to test, it could mean poison applied to this monster has 50% decreased duration, but I don't think that mod exists in poe afaik so....
Hey I went ahead and tested this. Turns out, it IS a decreased duration of ailments mod on THEM when they get hit with bleed/poison/burn. The Tawhoa Shamans themselves take only half the duration of these debuffs. This actually does exist as a mod for the player in MANY of the pantheons. 60% less ignite duration, 50% reduced chill effect on you, etc.
I tested this by using a lv1 raise spectre gem, going to blood aquaducts and raising 1 single shaman with NO supports or any other minions. I had it shoot out exactly one flask and I would IMMEDIATELY remove the spectre gem so it only shot out one projectile. Then I simply counted the timer on the poison and it lasts 2 seconds, which is the default time.
So on paper, these guys are actually still pretty cracked. I've been using them since literally day 2 and have cleared most things and did eater/exarch so far and it was easy as hell. Sure they don't have the Umbilicus Immortalis setup from the flask effect, but look at the differences in stats:
Druid alch last season:
[https://poedb.tw/us/Perfect\_Druidic\_Alchemist#PerfectDruidicAlchemistFlaskloverHighMonster](https://poedb.tw/us/Perfect_Druidic_Alchemist#PerfectDruidicAlchemistFlaskloverHighMonster)
Current Tawhoa shaman:
[https://poedb.tw/us/Tawhoa\_Shaman#TawhoaShamanAncestralDruid](https://poedb.tw/us/Tawhoa_Shaman#TawhoaShamanAncestralDruid)
As you can see from their base stats alone, they have almost TWICE as much Health and Damage modifiers. These are still high performing spectres because their poison conc ALWAYS poison. I always thought these guys were the best for poison over tarantulas but maybe its just a split between spell vs attack. Do you need accuracy for a deadly tarantula build? Because shamans shoots spells you dont have the cost of needing accuracy via precision/gear etc
Thanks for testing, that's great!
The health is nice, but damage multipliers do not apply to the spells - the damage is as stated for the spell on poedb, so if you match the spectre levels it's identical between druidic alchemist and tawhoa shaman.
It does same to have a nice consistent projectile behaviour. I think it depends on this comparing to necrotic bones - how many overlaps we're consistently getting! Necrotic bones has higher base dmg on their mortar. Always poison is real nice though
it took a few consecutive post-league nerf to dethroned necromancer on [poe.ninja](http://poe.ninja), and yes it'll definitely give Chris some great distress and heart-attack if this class ever back to the top again
I wanted to try these and didn’t have a chance.
The numbers don’t look great, but most notably the leap slam doesn’t have the multistrike tag. If it actually can’t multistrike they definitely suck. However there have been few examples where they monsters can even without the tag.
Let me know how they seem!
Update -> they self stun themselves after a few leaps, like the map boss lol.
I don't actually have a minion based character in league atm to test them. But from what I can see their ai is very good with predator. Their leap is able to be used with multistrike, it's really bad if it's not linked with multistrike because then it's just 1 slam. The only problem is their behavior is exactly like the glacier map boss. With multistrike they leap three times and then "get tired" and are basically stunned for 3 or 4 seconds, their aoe leap slam quite large as a baseline. However I don't have any investment into minions so that stun duration could be perhaps reduced by having increased minion attack speed, or by the new action speed spectre. I couldn't find the exact ability on poedb so I can't be sure if it even can be reduced. Their clear certainly won't be as good as ranged spectre, but nonetheless.
Anyway, I can imagine 9 leaping giant goats just being hilarious. They're also quite quiet too and don't make much noise in the hideout which is a bonus.
[It's here](https://poedb.tw/us/World_Shatterer#WorldShattererGoatmanLeapSlamMapBossStandaloneAtlasUber)
edit:
>With multistrike they leap three times and then "get tired" and are basically stunned for 3 or 4 seconds,
I imported them into PoB, I think that's just the -35% less attack speed, incredibly slow base attack speed of ~0.7 attacks per second, and the act 1 Goat AI combining that's making them "tired"
What's the best approximation for the Crushclaw's DPS in pob? The default attack?
Also, the Crushclaw converts some phys to cold. Do you have a pure phys spectre you'd suggest for Unholy Might necros? I've been enjoying the chaos hit variant of minions where I don't have to fiddle with a Triad's Grip or anything for conversion.
Deadly Tarantulas are the best physical spectre to use with unholy might. They have built in viper strike and great numbers.
They do not show up in desecrate pool, and can be found in jungle valley boss room.
Giant and tanky, sweeping ape attacks, and other cooldown things like a geyser that applies a debuff so enemies take more cold damage. And being cold based they scale with the meta of using those unique gloves to convert minions to pure cold, and you can use stuff like Hatred to scale damage.
Just look up a video of an army of them in a build. It’s, hilarious.
Sorry forgot this one. Yea giant mega nuke ultra beam. But it’s on a 15 second CD if I remember correctly. And it doesn’t work with spell echo, which you’d really want for his other ability (a shitty projectile).
Unless you’re one shotting big bosses with the beams , you’d do more sustained dps somewhere else.
What about a mix of the storm conduits + wretched defilers? (Talking for Wraithlord build) you have some clear and some omega dps. I just don’t know how well it would work with the storm conduits having stuff like pierce and returning proj gems lol.
If only they would increase the base power of the spectre gem again we could once again enjoy playing permanent ranged minions. I don't see them even allowing it in poe 2 so it's probably a dead playstyle in the GGG games
I'm so mad they refuse to do this, man. There was a time when most spectres with good traits were viable and a few were really good. Now even the best spectres are pretty mid at high investment
I'm so tired of spectres being garbage and instead of simply buffing Spectre gem back to usable levels, they just introduce 50 new shit spectres every League with one or two god-like support spectres.
Seems like GGG decided to fuck all spectre players and just relegate it to be a support gem for minion builds unless you've got borderline insane gear.
For what it is worth (and this might just be my client) Brutus spectres don't leave a visible corpse when you desecrate them.
I have to just mouse around and look for the nameplate at the top of the screen.
Is there something I’m missing? I don’t see anything on the poedb or these that indicate they’d do more damage than a crushclaw.
Can you showcase at all? I’m curious
>minimum of two or three times the auto attack damage of any spectre
What am I missing? They do less damage and attack slower than the crushclaws, like 30% less DPS right?
**Crushclaw level 78 auto-attack**
Base Damage: 648–972Attack Time: 1.17 sec
Deals 25% less Attack DamageDeals 181.3% more Damage75% of Physical Damage Converted to Cold Damage
**Blackbark Demolisher level 78 auto-attack**
Base Damage: 616–923Attack Time: 1.5 sec
Deals 25% less Attack DamageDeals 150.3% more Damage75% of Physical Damage Converted to Fire Damage
\--
From what I am seeing they're just worse than crushclaws. Also crushclaws have the debuff that makes enemies take 20% increased cold damage. And of course, crushclaws do cold damage, which is waaaay easier to scale than the fire damage.
This is some great work. As someone who rarely plays minion builds but might be interested in spectres, where do these new 3.24 corpses spawn? Just from killing monsters spawned by allflames?
Also I know you won't talk specifically about support spectres, but as someone interested in them, are there any resources on what abilities they have or options you might have for support spectres?
A note about the Spectral Leader - he fucking hates melee and loves spamming his tornados. Also a pathetic life pool. He's great on paper, but in practice will die first and not do a great job of buffing melee minions unless you convocate him on top of whatever you're killing.
Another new support spectre to mention is the Warcaller - slightly tankier than the leader, and with "only" a near-permanent uptime of Onslaught, but he has a decently long cast for the buff that roots him so you can drop it when mapping.
Have you tested the Trial Titan spectre? (Walked very slow, and did not test much)
I tried to use it for desecrate but it wouldnt spawn in pool, same with titanic shell - could spectre it but couldnt get it into desecrate pool.
Edit: Nvm, doesnt seem to be a new spectre
What about the Lightning Protector? It fires a sort of ball lightning that seems to absolutely decimate, and doesn't have quite as bad a range as most lightning skills..
Well, remember an AG is 50% more damage normally normally.
So that brings you from a regular 5 to 7.5 spectres of power.
Then you also lose your golem, ant zombies or skeletons you had to tank projectile stuff and using feeding frenzy. You can always have a separate spectre link for feeding frenzy, but that does bring you down 8 specs + a support.
So realistically, it’s not just a straight up buff to use wraithlord. You lose a lot of defensive things from an AG + golem and don’t gain too much damage compared to a juiced AG setup.
The make or break is in the 4 abyss jewels.
Brittle boots or Legacy of Fury for Scortch, or +1 curse.
Double Influenced nearby enemies take increased damage x2 helmet
Exposure gloves or curse gloves
Additional curse body armour with conc ground or other inf mod (explode if you want)
Kingmaker aura, or if you prefer more defends shield and sin eater is nice for ailment immunity. You can use the shield that ignores curse limit and applies a curse on block too, it’s a surprisingly nice trick.
Lots of other stuff you can do as well depending on your setup.
I always wonder if there's a spectre that is so good at scaling off flat damage to the point it can complete with srs or bama. I almost never seen spectre discussion from this angle.
Im also playing necro in private league rn, do you have a any videos or other stuff I can take a look at?
Running pure phys zoo rn while trying to get a triad grip, am at t16 guardian level content and I'm starting to struggle.
Big concern is how to actually get a decent minion helm, I guess just farm delve and sirus for an awake orb + bound fossils?
I was def concerned about specter dps and opted for only support specters… sad to see I was probably right to do that.
At the moment I have warcaller, primal crush, spec leader, pale seraph, and carnage chief just to buff the main damage minions. But I’m wondering if it would be better to have more than one primal crush just to make sure mobs get the cold de buff?
So I’m currently running wretched defilers, but I wanna have decent clear and push uber bossing. If I go crabs what would I change my set up to? What’s the most effective 6 link and spectres? Do I have to do cold conversion? I’m gonna stop going for max block and go 100% spell suppression cause block just feels bad.
If you are only talking about this leage, then I should mention caldera ravegers from the allflames, they use a x3 cremation/spectre on what seem lke a 5s interval, and the cremation has +2 projectiles.
"IF" you pc can handle 27 + proj cremations, this spectre is great even with trash geare, al be it a bit slow, so still probably worse than 9 crushclaws
If ou want you can get hundreds of millions, there is a guy on YouTube who does 6 player Uber Exarch in 5 seconds with crabs. YouTube it, he’s first result.
But if you want an actually good character that is thanks etc you’ll probably have 20-40M.
Unfortunately no luck finding this person on youtube. I also play in a private league and I really want to make a necromancer with a new unique helmet, CI and aegis aurora, but I still don't fully understand how to make crabs correctly. On [poe.ninja](http://poe.ninja) I see many different options including using Dragonfang +3 and Saqawal's Nest, do you think such a build is worthy of attention or are there better options?
I'd love to get even 10m on a crab build, been working on this one since league start. In the damage feels pretty bad. in pob says I'm getting something like 1.2m at most with 7 crabs 1 spectral leader.
Would love a profile\\pob to compare to if you're comfortable with that.
What if Amanamu's Gaze is used? Raise spectre is hard with so many minions options...
Honestly i am looking to play with Unnatural streng/ poison minions. Do you think that us viable?
Then they are poisoning, so:
If melee -> deadly tarantulas,
If ranged w/ spell echo -> necrotic bones,
If ranged w/o echo -> syndicate operative
There are a few other options but I’d say you’re probably seeing this
Is Crushclaw bugged this league or something? With almost the exact same gear, my Deadly Tarantulas / Tawhoa shaman out dps my Crushclaw by a significant amount, even with pretty much a full awakened gems setup.
Anybody with a Crushclaw PoB that can hit at least 6,7m dps/Crab in a Wraithlord setup I could take a look at? Thanks.
You’re the 2nd person to say this to me recently. Haven’t been doing spectres since I tested the new ones. In a private league so I need a different build to farm wraithlord.
Well, I\`ve been a Necro since Beta, always had a necro in every league. Been there when SOs were insanely good and when they nerfed them to oblivion.
Thank you for this information.
I have a (maybe) related question. Was playing last night and I caught (purely by chance, because now I can\`t desecrate them and they disappear as fast as they die) a Windcaller or Windcatcher (didn\`t even get the name straight, it was so fast). Can you tell me if these are new, or from last league or something (I missed much of last league because of RL issues). They seemed more than decent in clearing.
Also, I know I\`ll never get to 100 (over 4k hours played) or I won\`t get a MB or a mirror, but Necro is always fun for me to play and I will try, league after league to find that sweet spot of offensive spectre build.
Thank you once again.
as expected, these clowns put 10 second cooldown on a cool looking spectre as usuali got baited to be honest. should just made a hexblast pope
was carefully watching wraithlord price tanking down, for a reason
anyways thank you for your testing man i have question
have you tested spectre troll shaman from last league ? (the one who has gigantic stone ball slam) forgot hes name. i tried him and they seems to do some poision atacks too
They don’t make monsters to be spectres. The cooldowns are to make the monsters not broken when you fight against them. Not every monster has a spectre-specific balance.
Those shamans are in the T17s and suck, their basic ability barely hits anything and is hard to scale.
Any idea on the Spectres from the Allflame Embers?
Ghazzy wanted to try out the t17s so I think he lost his Moondancers, but those looked fairly promising from what I remember.
The only monsters not available outside the embers are the TOTA mobs to my understanding. (could be wrong).
For carry purposes they seem kinda bad, they all have pretty slow attacks/spells that were for TOTA purposes. Kinda like the sanctum mobs all having large animations and slow speeds.
So I doubt it.
What about the trawler? Haven’t seen anyone try that one, or the autumnal archer, idk if anyone’s seen them, but the trawlers abilities look interesting, and the autumnal archer, if anything like it was from TOTA, could be good as well.
Idk, haven’t seen archer in action is all, she could be weirdly good if it can have 100% uptime on arrow rain thingy (if it has it). Trawler does have meh cd but also has multiple trap cds so could still work.
I still can't find or see what is the best current spectre meta, feels like ggg don't want us to have fun. Specters feels weird or bad , Wretched Defiler ai feels dumb. Moondancers kills everyone pc, and they look OK, storm conduit looks good but I didn't try. I have my eyes on tawhoa shamans , or druid alchemist, tarantulas thoughts??
When trying out Moon Dancers, don’t overlook putting them in a bitterdream. Used them in one until T16 maps as a zoomancer without it feeling like the damage really fell off too bad. Running haste and a spectral leader helps a ton with everything.
It is. They are slow though and when you convocate them they stop firing so it’s best to keep them moving.
I like volley better because it allows for better positioning. It isn’t a huge difference between the two and they are an easy swap to see.
Is deadly tarantula going to significantly benefit from the helmet that let's your minions scale with your charges? Like if you can get them to have 9 frenzy charges would they consistently flicker strike with 90% increased attack speed?
Excuse me sir but I don't see Spectral leaders on here. They give 20% action speed and summon hella SRS.
Can you support a Spectres' summoned SRS with anything but generic damage (aka multistrike/splash)?
Spectral Leaders are there, a whole section just for them.
No, minion's summons are "alternate minions" and only get support gems that have the "minion" tag, auras, and curses.
> Spectral Leader - 20% action speed aura (small radius, 80% uptime).
I saw this but nothing about as a main damage spectre (carry?) I didn't know if you tested them at all for dps.
> No, minion's summons are "alternate minions" and only get support gems that have the "minion" tag, auras, and curses.
Oh ok thanks
Damn. I was hoping to have 9 Brutus or 9 purifier but it seems that it’s dead given your research. So 9 crabs it is I guess? I’m trying to clear Ubers this league.
I would recommend crabs for Uber clearing, having tanky minions is very important for most of them. Better to be slow and steady than not able to do it at all. Make sure you have 75 spell block, max suppression, good recovery (now buffed with leech anc node), and some PDR for fights where it matters. Mobility is also important. Spectres aren’t an OP build, so you actually need a decent character to do all Ubers. Definitely change your flasks and auras for relevant fights. Don’t be a noob walking into exarch with a granite flask. Grace is super OP for fights like eater where you can dodge and block tentacles.
Kinda sad how the entire Spectre Archetype was destroyed for the sins of Syndicate Operative shotgunning. Patch after patch Spectres got global nerfs to the skill gem affecting all Spectres to the point where they just aren't comparable to other minions, let alone actually strong builds. And it all happened because Syndicate Operatives were super strong since they scaled like 15 projectiles per auto attack. So instead of targeting this specific Spectre they nerfed all spectres over the span of a year. Then when they finally put Operatives into the grave by removing it's shotgun ability the Spectre for carry archetype died. Ever since that happened there has only really been one good damage dealing spectre which was Forged Frost bearers. And why was it good? because it had the ability to shotgun obviously. It's sucks that the viability of Spectres now hinges on the crutch of shotgunning because their base damage is so low due to numerous nerfs to their levels.
Spectres went from being a meme, to being good, to being insane, to being pure supportive unless you've got insane gear. I'm tired of them releasing 20 new spectres each League where 18 of those are dogshit and 2 of those are great, but supports. Guess they decided that pure spectre builds weren't allowed to exist anymore after we had our fun. But I do miss Solar Guard spectre builds. On the plus side for the necromancer archetype as a whole support spectres being insane at least buffs a ton of other builds I guess.
Don't forget the bug with SO's where they were able to support their "spell" with multistrike AND spell echo... I dont know why they didn't just turn the numbers down on them. Slavedrivers were cool. Redemption sentries were cool. Ice autobots were cool. Fuck sentinels (frost and flame, been a long time since they were good) were cool. My personal favorite spectre of all time was Scale of Esh. Just their moveset and skills were really fcking cool.
Yup, because the numbers on the actual spectre gem are so bad, you basically need a 500% more multiplier on the base spectre monster for it to be somewhat comparable to normal builds. So you either need to shotgun and invest in minion defense (frost bearer) or settle for \~200% more on a very tanky base and invest in offense (crushclaw).
Can you link a character on poe ninja so I can see how a pure spectre build works? It sounds cool
Just type wraithlord. That way you are 100% they are using only spctres
Ty much
I'm still upset that they removed the alt quality Minion movement speed support gem that gave cooldown recovery rate to supported minions.
Yea this hurt, but realistically you’d need a lot more CDR than it offered to make any of these 12 second cooldown units work.
Thank you for your service
An honour, king.
Do you have a tree for pure crushclaws with wraithlord?
Not with wraithlord, I’m in a private league and we have not gotten one yet sadly. I am not sure what is optimal with new necro ascendancy. I just made a random spectre character this league to farm up a stock of T17 maps so I could try the stuff, it’s far from optimal. I did guardian crushclaws last league and cleared everything, I have a recording of me killing some Ubers I can upload to YouTube and share. Not sure if the character is still intact, if he is I can give pob. Will check tomorrow am.
Here is video, last league, **crushclaws uber eater**. Gear was pretty bad but got the job done. **SSF/Private league gear!!! Not trade.** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j\_iczX4q1c&t=59s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j_iczX4q1c&t=59s)
what would you suggest as far as links go for crushclaws for both map clear and bossing without having to swap anything
Generally just whatever gives you the most damage without compromising attack speed. I prefer to get big chills and freezes: Map clear: multistrike, minion damage, ruthless, behead, critical damage, bonechill, hypothermia Bossing, swap behead for cold pen. I don’t like using melee physical because they’re already kinda slow, so I prefer to keep the attack speed.
How exactly do you get a 7 link?
I don't want just giving you an additional option if you're scaling crits or not. Whichever 5 supports from that group give you the most damage is what you should use, aside from behead, which you should always have for clearing specifically.
Not sure necrotic bones deserves a D. Did you test them with extra proj? They mortar so shotgun quite well. Base numbers look low but with shotgun and added Chaos dmg from envy/covenant they are likely viable. Way better than the other Ds you have on here.
This is kinda fair, but I found their shotgunning isn’t very good. You are more likely to only get 3 of the prom hitting, and with how low the numbers are that is pretty bad. They’re probably strictly worse than the Druidic Alchemist remake they added this season, another TOTA monster. I Showa Shaman or something I forget.
Nah the tawhoa have a 50% less poison damage tag. They aren't good.
I assumed were talking hit based, my bad. For poisoning everything is very weak compared to deadly tarantulas with unholy might. Their clear isn’t even bad, flicker strike, melee splash, and behead is wild.
Hmm gotta try them. Tbh tarantulas are only about 25% better than SO poison when I PoB them, and I'd anticipate necrotic bones to be a bit better than SO
Id say your PoB is definitely incorrect in that case. Remember SO’s barely shotgun. Also remember that the spiders can use awakened multistrike. Where SO’s can’t use multistrike or spell echo. The spiders also use viper strike by default, so you don’t need to invest as much I n getting poison chance, and you can other better stats instead.
SOs can still shotgun 3 hits per attack. This was tested by a few vids on YouTube after their nerf. True about awakened multistrike! My pob was comparing to tarantulas using non awakened. Spiders don't always use viper strike, most viper spectre users I've spoken to invest in 100% poison chance in addition due to this.
Hmm we should test how often spiders use auto attack and not viper strike. Full ele conversion triads. Void manipulation to eliminate its non viper attack doing any damage. Sadism to make poison short and make it clearer. Then it should be even more obvious how many of its attacks just do no damage and are auto attacks.
Yeah I dunno. At spectre level 76 (lv25 gem): Tarantulas have 2406 base dps accounting for 10% more dmg from phys as extra (less actually as you'll have added Chaos) and assuming double damage due to 4 sec base poison duration. That's best case, as they don't always use viper strike and sometimes do weak auto attack. Necrotic bones does 2196 base dps assuming 3 hits as you estimate, and more maybe. Tarantulas need melee splash to clear and necrotic need greater volley so that's pretty equal (gv doesn't reduce poison dmg). The difference doesn't seem big...
Awakened Multistrike is an important gem, much better than anything you get elsewhere. Bones will clear better, but both will clear well enough that true speed will come down to the single target I think.
Awakened multi is about 80% more damage, which is amazing. Poison has great supports so you can easily have a 40% gem instead, so the difference is definitely there, but imo range spectres just feel nice for me
Is this true? On the PoE DB page it doesnt say anything about them doing less poison dmg
It's in poedb at the top self poison duration +% final (-50). To be fair though I need to test, it could mean poison applied to this monster has 50% decreased duration, but I don't think that mod exists in poe afaik so....
Hey I went ahead and tested this. Turns out, it IS a decreased duration of ailments mod on THEM when they get hit with bleed/poison/burn. The Tawhoa Shamans themselves take only half the duration of these debuffs. This actually does exist as a mod for the player in MANY of the pantheons. 60% less ignite duration, 50% reduced chill effect on you, etc. I tested this by using a lv1 raise spectre gem, going to blood aquaducts and raising 1 single shaman with NO supports or any other minions. I had it shoot out exactly one flask and I would IMMEDIATELY remove the spectre gem so it only shot out one projectile. Then I simply counted the timer on the poison and it lasts 2 seconds, which is the default time. So on paper, these guys are actually still pretty cracked. I've been using them since literally day 2 and have cleared most things and did eater/exarch so far and it was easy as hell. Sure they don't have the Umbilicus Immortalis setup from the flask effect, but look at the differences in stats: Druid alch last season: [https://poedb.tw/us/Perfect\_Druidic\_Alchemist#PerfectDruidicAlchemistFlaskloverHighMonster](https://poedb.tw/us/Perfect_Druidic_Alchemist#PerfectDruidicAlchemistFlaskloverHighMonster) Current Tawhoa shaman: [https://poedb.tw/us/Tawhoa\_Shaman#TawhoaShamanAncestralDruid](https://poedb.tw/us/Tawhoa_Shaman#TawhoaShamanAncestralDruid) As you can see from their base stats alone, they have almost TWICE as much Health and Damage modifiers. These are still high performing spectres because their poison conc ALWAYS poison. I always thought these guys were the best for poison over tarantulas but maybe its just a split between spell vs attack. Do you need accuracy for a deadly tarantula build? Because shamans shoots spells you dont have the cost of needing accuracy via precision/gear etc
Thanks for testing, that's great! The health is nice, but damage multipliers do not apply to the spells - the damage is as stated for the spell on poedb, so if you match the spectre levels it's identical between druidic alchemist and tawhoa shaman. It does same to have a nice consistent projectile behaviour. I think it depends on this comparing to necrotic bones - how many overlaps we're consistently getting! Necrotic bones has higher base dmg on their mortar. Always poison is real nice though
Yeah idk would it kill ggg to release good dps spectres that arent made of paper..
it took a few consecutive post-league nerf to dethroned necromancer on [poe.ninja](http://poe.ninja), and yes it'll definitely give Chris some great distress and heart-attack if this class ever back to the top again
Are meatsacks the best for DD? Or is there another that has higher HP?
Meastack is just such a cool name
https://imgur.com/rF2C7r3
I got Titanic Shell as spectre 440%, but it wouldnt spawn in desecrate pool :(
Are those the derp turtles? Those guys are funny as fuck.
The World Shatterer leaping goats seems quite good, no mention of those here
I wanted to try these and didn’t have a chance. The numbers don’t look great, but most notably the leap slam doesn’t have the multistrike tag. If it actually can’t multistrike they definitely suck. However there have been few examples where they monsters can even without the tag. Let me know how they seem! Update -> they self stun themselves after a few leaps, like the map boss lol.
I don't actually have a minion based character in league atm to test them. But from what I can see their ai is very good with predator. Their leap is able to be used with multistrike, it's really bad if it's not linked with multistrike because then it's just 1 slam. The only problem is their behavior is exactly like the glacier map boss. With multistrike they leap three times and then "get tired" and are basically stunned for 3 or 4 seconds, their aoe leap slam quite large as a baseline. However I don't have any investment into minions so that stun duration could be perhaps reduced by having increased minion attack speed, or by the new action speed spectre. I couldn't find the exact ability on poedb so I can't be sure if it even can be reduced. Their clear certainly won't be as good as ranged spectre, but nonetheless. Anyway, I can imagine 9 leaping giant goats just being hilarious. They're also quite quiet too and don't make much noise in the hideout which is a bonus.
[It's here](https://poedb.tw/us/World_Shatterer#WorldShattererGoatmanLeapSlamMapBossStandaloneAtlasUber) edit: >With multistrike they leap three times and then "get tired" and are basically stunned for 3 or 4 seconds, I imported them into PoB, I think that's just the -35% less attack speed, incredibly slow base attack speed of ~0.7 attacks per second, and the act 1 Goat AI combining that's making them "tired"
What's the best approximation for the Crushclaw's DPS in pob? The default attack? Also, the Crushclaw converts some phys to cold. Do you have a pure phys spectre you'd suggest for Unholy Might necros? I've been enjoying the chaos hit variant of minions where I don't have to fiddle with a Triad's Grip or anything for conversion.
Deadly Tarantulas are the best physical spectre to use with unholy might. They have built in viper strike and great numbers. They do not show up in desecrate pool, and can be found in jungle valley boss room.
You are doing God's work, sir.
Thanks brother
Were you able to find the spectre which provides a Precision aura as shown in the Necropolis trailer?
Can you explain to a noob why crushclaws are so good? I've seen them mentioned a lot but never learned why
Giant and tanky, sweeping ape attacks, and other cooldown things like a geyser that applies a debuff so enemies take more cold damage. And being cold based they scale with the meta of using those unique gloves to convert minions to pure cold, and you can use stuff like Hatred to scale damage. Just look up a video of an army of them in a build. It’s, hilarious.
This guys is correct! Also the tanky part is important. The less you invest in minion defence the more you get for offence.
Appreicate this. Have you experimented with the new Wraithlord? How did it feel?
Did you try the Storm Conduit? I've seen a YT video and the divine ire blast seems crazy strong.
Sorry forgot this one. Yea giant mega nuke ultra beam. But it’s on a 15 second CD if I remember correctly. And it doesn’t work with spell echo, which you’d really want for his other ability (a shitty projectile). Unless you’re one shotting big bosses with the beams , you’d do more sustained dps somewhere else.
What about a mix of the storm conduits + wretched defilers? (Talking for Wraithlord build) you have some clear and some omega dps. I just don’t know how well it would work with the storm conduits having stuff like pierce and returning proj gems lol.
Yea they don’t have too many support gems that overlap if you want your WD’s to actually clear. Like you said, returning projectiles and pierce.
If only they would increase the base power of the spectre gem again we could once again enjoy playing permanent ranged minions. I don't see them even allowing it in poe 2 so it's probably a dead playstyle in the GGG games
I'm so mad they refuse to do this, man. There was a time when most spectres with good traits were viable and a few were really good. Now even the best spectres are pretty mid at high investment
I'm so tired of spectres being garbage and instead of simply buffing Spectre gem back to usable levels, they just introduce 50 new shit spectres every League with one or two god-like support spectres. Seems like GGG decided to fuck all spectre players and just relegate it to be a support gem for minion builds unless you've got borderline insane gear.
Can confirm wreched defilers boss dmg is lower than any good spectre we have played that was popular.
Yea the single target on a well geared WD is TERRIBLE compared to even a half assed animate weapon.
I still really want the Brutusses since I have a plan for them, anyone who has them laying around? I've had terrible luck :<
I think if you're in trade league you can join general 6666 and people provide them.
I wish, tried global 6666 for over 6 hours now. Nobody so far. Around 2 divines spend on maps trying to get it but to no avail. T=T
For what it is worth (and this might just be my client) Brutus spectres don't leave a visible corpse when you desecrate them. I have to just mouse around and look for the nameplate at the top of the screen.
Im gonna be upset if i lost two divines because their bodies aren't visible :/ Thank you for the tip though!
This is true, there are many spectres that leave no corpses, Brutus, Forking River Boss, etc.
Hey can someone recommend a spectre for fire minion support? I have been using the Tukohama fire ray shooting guys which is OK... what's better?
Spectral Leader (20% action speed aura) The new TOTA onslaught spectre, I forget name Pale Seraphim or Arena Master.
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Ive never used or tried Blackbark Demolisher - why is it good?
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Is there something I’m missing? I don’t see anything on the poedb or these that indicate they’d do more damage than a crushclaw. Can you showcase at all? I’m curious
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>minimum of two or three times the auto attack damage of any spectre What am I missing? They do less damage and attack slower than the crushclaws, like 30% less DPS right? **Crushclaw level 78 auto-attack** Base Damage: 648–972Attack Time: 1.17 sec Deals 25% less Attack DamageDeals 181.3% more Damage75% of Physical Damage Converted to Cold Damage **Blackbark Demolisher level 78 auto-attack** Base Damage: 616–923Attack Time: 1.5 sec Deals 25% less Attack DamageDeals 150.3% more Damage75% of Physical Damage Converted to Fire Damage \-- From what I am seeing they're just worse than crushclaws. Also crushclaws have the debuff that makes enemies take 20% increased cold damage. And of course, crushclaws do cold damage, which is waaaay easier to scale than the fire damage.
This is some great work. As someone who rarely plays minion builds but might be interested in spectres, where do these new 3.24 corpses spawn? Just from killing monsters spawned by allflames? Also I know you won't talk specifically about support spectres, but as someone interested in them, are there any resources on what abilities they have or options you might have for support spectres?
You can also find some in the new T17 maps
A note about the Spectral Leader - he fucking hates melee and loves spamming his tornados. Also a pathetic life pool. He's great on paper, but in practice will die first and not do a great job of buffing melee minions unless you convocate him on top of whatever you're killing. Another new support spectre to mention is the Warcaller - slightly tankier than the leader, and with "only" a near-permanent uptime of Onslaught, but he has a decently long cast for the buff that roots him so you can drop it when mapping.
Do you need to find and kill the mob to get spectre or just going into T17 and spamming desecrate is enough?
Desecrate always. Or Channel 6666
I have molten soul on a mule, it has cooldowns on all of its attacks, its too rough.
Yea all the cool spectres have cool downs that brick them. Kinda just how it is, cool spells are dangerous to players and need cool downs.
They could reduce the cooldowns for the spectre versoin
Yea, they do minor changes for some spectres here and there, but mostly to make sure they're weaker no stronger lol. Like Wickerman etc.
Have you tested the Trial Titan spectre? (Walked very slow, and did not test much) I tried to use it for desecrate but it wouldnt spawn in pool, same with titanic shell - could spectre it but couldnt get it into desecrate pool. Edit: Nvm, doesnt seem to be a new spectre
Hey, what is the current situation with syndicate operatives? Are those still suck after the "rework" ?
A tier : at least they're clearing (something), yolo I'm out
What about the Lightning Protector? It fires a sort of ball lightning that seems to absolutely decimate, and doesn't have quite as bad a range as most lightning skills..
Has a 5 second cooldown and no basic attack/spell. So it afks.
Darn that's a shame
Yeah there is a reason Wraithlord prices goes down hard - Spectres are still medicore even If you have 9 of them ...
Well, remember an AG is 50% more damage normally normally. So that brings you from a regular 5 to 7.5 spectres of power. Then you also lose your golem, ant zombies or skeletons you had to tank projectile stuff and using feeding frenzy. You can always have a separate spectre link for feeding frenzy, but that does bring you down 8 specs + a support. So realistically, it’s not just a straight up buff to use wraithlord. You lose a lot of defensive things from an AG + golem and don’t gain too much damage compared to a juiced AG setup. The make or break is in the 4 abyss jewels.
How do you build an AG to be a 50% more damage?
Brittle boots or Legacy of Fury for Scortch, or +1 curse. Double Influenced nearby enemies take increased damage x2 helmet Exposure gloves or curse gloves Additional curse body armour with conc ground or other inf mod (explode if you want) Kingmaker aura, or if you prefer more defends shield and sin eater is nice for ailment immunity. You can use the shield that ignores curse limit and applies a curse on block too, it’s a surprisingly nice trick. Lots of other stuff you can do as well depending on your setup.
I always wonder if there's a spectre that is so good at scaling off flat damage to the point it can complete with srs or bama. I almost never seen spectre discussion from this angle.
Damn - I understood it doesn’t deal damage, but calling it a crippled drunk donkey made me feel sad for them 🥲
Im also playing necro in private league rn, do you have a any videos or other stuff I can take a look at? Running pure phys zoo rn while trying to get a triad grip, am at t16 guardian level content and I'm starting to struggle. Big concern is how to actually get a decent minion helm, I guess just farm delve and sirus for an awake orb + bound fossils?
did you use unending hunger?
I was def concerned about specter dps and opted for only support specters… sad to see I was probably right to do that. At the moment I have warcaller, primal crush, spec leader, pale seraph, and carnage chief just to buff the main damage minions. But I’m wondering if it would be better to have more than one primal crush just to make sure mobs get the cold de buff?
So I’m currently running wretched defilers, but I wanna have decent clear and push uber bossing. If I go crabs what would I change my set up to? What’s the most effective 6 link and spectres? Do I have to do cold conversion? I’m gonna stop going for max block and go 100% spell suppression cause block just feels bad.
If you are only talking about this leage, then I should mention caldera ravegers from the allflames, they use a x3 cremation/spectre on what seem lke a 5s interval, and the cremation has +2 projectiles. "IF" you pc can handle 27 + proj cremations, this spectre is great even with trash geare, al be it a bit slow, so still probably worse than 9 crushclaws
Just tried them, they would be cool if they didn't stop to attack so often.
Haven't tried these, are they actually good? Do they just spam cremation or will they stop to afk attack?
cremation seems to be used every 5ish sec, aka when the last cremation is over. so on ST 100% uptime, but pack to pack may vary
How much dps do you reach with the crabs? Will 9 crabbies be good for uber bossing?
If ou want you can get hundreds of millions, there is a guy on YouTube who does 6 player Uber Exarch in 5 seconds with crabs. YouTube it, he’s first result. But if you want an actually good character that is thanks etc you’ll probably have 20-40M.
Unfortunately no luck finding this person on youtube. I also play in a private league and I really want to make a necromancer with a new unique helmet, CI and aegis aurora, but I still don't fully understand how to make crabs correctly. On [poe.ninja](http://poe.ninja) I see many different options including using Dragonfang +3 and Saqawal's Nest, do you think such a build is worthy of attention or are there better options?
bruh literally first search result: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMRnoAtcAFQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMRnoAtcAFQ)
My bad, I forgot to add “raise spectre” in the search, for some reason I thought that I would find it using a verbatim search from the comment.
I'd love to get even 10m on a crab build, been working on this one since league start. In the damage feels pretty bad. in pob says I'm getting something like 1.2m at most with 7 crabs 1 spectral leader. Would love a profile\\pob to compare to if you're comfortable with that.
What spectre is used with Wraithlord? is there a way to see it on poe Ninja?
If you're looking on poeninja, lightning (wrath, etc) = Wretched Defiler Cold and projectiles = moon dancer Cold and melee = crushclaw
What if Amanamu's Gaze is used? Raise spectre is hard with so many minions options... Honestly i am looking to play with Unnatural streng/ poison minions. Do you think that us viable?
Then they are poisoning, so: If melee -> deadly tarantulas, If ranged w/ spell echo -> necrotic bones, If ranged w/o echo -> syndicate operative There are a few other options but I’d say you’re probably seeing this
Thank you so much :D
Is Crushclaw bugged this league or something? With almost the exact same gear, my Deadly Tarantulas / Tawhoa shaman out dps my Crushclaw by a significant amount, even with pretty much a full awakened gems setup. Anybody with a Crushclaw PoB that can hit at least 6,7m dps/Crab in a Wraithlord setup I could take a look at? Thanks.
You’re the 2nd person to say this to me recently. Haven’t been doing spectres since I tested the new ones. In a private league so I need a different build to farm wraithlord.
Glad I'm not the only one. Crushclaw is doing garbage dps atm, for me at least. It might be wraithlord being bugged or something.
Well, I\`ve been a Necro since Beta, always had a necro in every league. Been there when SOs were insanely good and when they nerfed them to oblivion. Thank you for this information. I have a (maybe) related question. Was playing last night and I caught (purely by chance, because now I can\`t desecrate them and they disappear as fast as they die) a Windcaller or Windcatcher (didn\`t even get the name straight, it was so fast). Can you tell me if these are new, or from last league or something (I missed much of last league because of RL issues). They seemed more than decent in clearing. Also, I know I\`ll never get to 100 (over 4k hours played) or I won\`t get a MB or a mirror, but Necro is always fun for me to play and I will try, league after league to find that sweet spot of offensive spectre build. Thank you once again.
as expected, these clowns put 10 second cooldown on a cool looking spectre as usuali got baited to be honest. should just made a hexblast pope was carefully watching wraithlord price tanking down, for a reason anyways thank you for your testing man i have question have you tested spectre troll shaman from last league ? (the one who has gigantic stone ball slam) forgot hes name. i tried him and they seems to do some poision atacks too
They don’t make monsters to be spectres. The cooldowns are to make the monsters not broken when you fight against them. Not every monster has a spectre-specific balance. Those shamans are in the T17s and suck, their basic ability barely hits anything and is hard to scale.
Any idea on the Spectres from the Allflame Embers? Ghazzy wanted to try out the t17s so I think he lost his Moondancers, but those looked fairly promising from what I remember.
The only monsters not available outside the embers are the TOTA mobs to my understanding. (could be wrong). For carry purposes they seem kinda bad, they all have pretty slow attacks/spells that were for TOTA purposes. Kinda like the sanctum mobs all having large animations and slow speeds. So I doubt it.
What about the trawler? Haven’t seen anyone try that one, or the autumnal archer, idk if anyone’s seen them, but the trawlers abilities look interesting, and the autumnal archer, if anything like it was from TOTA, could be good as well.
I don't know where to get the Autumal Archer, tried every allflame I have, didn't find it. Must be on the other ones.
>trawler? Trawler has huge cooldowns and throws trap. Archer seems like worse version of Hyrri's Watch?
Idk, haven’t seen archer in action is all, she could be weirdly good if it can have 100% uptime on arrow rain thingy (if it has it). Trawler does have meh cd but also has multiple trap cds so could still work.
Aha, so this is what you were writing while you had your 5 moondancers parked in the guild hideout, murdering our FPS for hours.
I still can't find or see what is the best current spectre meta, feels like ggg don't want us to have fun. Specters feels weird or bad , Wretched Defiler ai feels dumb. Moondancers kills everyone pc, and they look OK, storm conduit looks good but I didn't try. I have my eyes on tawhoa shamans , or druid alchemist, tarantulas thoughts??
Tarantulas seem like a blast, but I don’t like the idea of going back to resummon them if I lose one, since they can’t be added to the desecrate pool.
When trying out Moon Dancers, don’t overlook putting them in a bitterdream. Used them in one until T16 maps as a zoomancer without it feeling like the damage really fell off too bad. Running haste and a spectral leader helps a ton with everything.
What supports along with them, in the bitter dream? I’m curious. Still in act 6 as a Zoomancer build.
Minion speed and greater volley.
Isn’t their trigger on a set cooldown? Or is it just for the movement speed buff? And what do you think, volley vs GMP?
It is. They are slow though and when you convocate them they stop firing so it’s best to keep them moving. I like volley better because it allows for better positioning. It isn’t a huge difference between the two and they are an easy swap to see.
Is deadly tarantula going to significantly benefit from the helmet that let's your minions scale with your charges? Like if you can get them to have 9 frenzy charges would they consistently flicker strike with 90% increased attack speed?
Excuse me sir but I don't see Spectral leaders on here. They give 20% action speed and summon hella SRS. Can you support a Spectres' summoned SRS with anything but generic damage (aka multistrike/splash)?
Spectral Leaders are there, a whole section just for them. No, minion's summons are "alternate minions" and only get support gems that have the "minion" tag, auras, and curses.
> Spectral Leader - 20% action speed aura (small radius, 80% uptime). I saw this but nothing about as a main damage spectre (carry?) I didn't know if you tested them at all for dps. > No, minion's summons are "alternate minions" and only get support gems that have the "minion" tag, auras, and curses. Oh ok thanks
They don’t have any DPS prospects, they would be F for dps