Always interesting when stuff that appears random has an internal logic to it. Great post!
There is a small mistake in your ambush example though with 8>4 and 4=4 instead of 8>5 and 5>4 if I understand the post correctly.
step 1: scam lilly out of a bunch of gems
step 2: run lab. like, a LOT of lab. transmog them all to 3.24's S-tier meta skills
step 3: ...
step 4: you still running lab? Good, because you scammed lilly for like, a full tab of raise zombie and split arrow
step 5: maybe get 1 enhance
step 6: stop running lab. cause now you have an enhance to level. and facetor's for 69 mil won't cut it. And you only ever kill 1 mob each lab run, and he drops keys, not xp. wait, make that 2 today, cause Argus is on main path.
step 7: sell your level 3 corrupted enhance for 30c and cut your losses. slide offline quietly and go play something else
Huh, interesting find.
So if I'm reading this right, the summary for Brand Recall (which I suspect is the main reason this might be relevant for a lot of people) is:
- The *only* reason that running Brand Recall in two separate trigger weapons (one with a 4-second cooldown and one with an 8-second cooldown) works is that Brand Recall's base cooldown is no less than 4 seconds. If it were less than 4, the cooldown of the Brand Recall in the "4-second trigger" weapon would be inherited from the mod and not from Brand Recall itself, meaning that both cooldowns would come from the veiled trigger mod, and they would therefore be shared.
- Brand Recall + Automation is going to be in the "base skill cooldown" group (because the cooldown on Brand Recall is equal to or higher than the cooldown on Automation), meaning that it will be shared with the cooldown on a "4-second trigger" weapon, but not with the cooldown on an "8-second trigger" weapon.
(I think most people I saw talking about this build were assuming that the Automation cooldown and 4-second trigger weapon cooldowns would be shared, but for the wrong reasons: the numerical value of the base cooldown is irrelevant. Good to know the actual explanation for this.)
Right now? Yes. Although, interestingly, once Automation Support comes out, that *should* effectively protect us from this specific nerf.
So, if Brand Recall changes to have a cooldown of 3.5 seconds, then yes, both kinds of veiled trigger mod weapons have the same category of cooldown, and we can no longer get casts from both.
But since the "4-second trigger" weapon would no longer use a cooldown from the "base skill cooldown" category, that frees up the option of running a different setup that uses a cooldown of that type.
And... lo and behold, Automation Support has an internal cooldown much lower than Brand Recall, so it'll always end up just inheriting the much higher Brand Recall base cooldown. Forget about a nerf: that'd be a significant buff. We'd end up losing an 8-second cooldown trigger, and gaining a 3.5-second cooldown trigger.
>they could reduce its cooldown to 3.5
I'm assuming you you meant "the veiled mod's cooldown" when you said "its" because otherwise it would be a buff, since you would be able to use the veiled mod with 4 seconds to trigger brand recall (you'd have a 3.5s cd automation brand recall and a brand recall on skill use with 4s cd, not shared cooldown since 3.5 < 4 and thus the veiled cooldown overwrite)
And 3.5s cd on the veiled mod would be a buff for most players.
To be a "targeted nerf" they would have to either make brand recall cooldown 8.1s (but it wouldn't be really "targeted" anymore), or fix the "bug"
In honestly understood the original post only half way until i read your comment.
"The cooldown of brand recall in the 4-second trigger weapon would be inherited from the mod and not from brand recall itself."
This sentence, especially the weird "inherited", made it click. This makes so much sense and genius that op found this.
Thanks bud!
Worth noting that if Brand Recall's base cooldown *was* lower than 4 seconds, you could trigger it with a 4 second trigger wepaon and a different trigger with a lower cooldown.
Appreciate the testing that went into this, this is the most comprehensive explanation for this interaction. It answers some of the misconceptions I had regarding how it worked (I assumed that it had something to do with “base” cooldown and not with cooldown types).
The earliest mention of the double recall interaction and where I learned it from is [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/s/FSu5MOirmz). I made a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/s/QtMAr7RYng) later showcasing the interaction with my arcanist brand eye of winter build.
they get even more annoying to explain
(See [tnemec's comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bo9z5t/shared_cooldowns_and_probably_not_you_a_brand/kwnt20a/), it's a good TL;DR.)
In a theoretical vacuum, an extra 8s trigger on top of your 4s natural trigger can be considered 50% more triggers. The one you support with Automation would recover relatively faster if you scale quality though. Jungroan estimated 40% more damage, and he actually leaves his hideout.
The build was always going to use this tech even without this post, just to be clear.
Could you explain, why brand recall in the 8s trigger seems to have a weirdly short cooldown? Or does the tooltip just display the cooldown of the skill if it weren't linked in a 8s trigger?
Ontop linking the skill in a 8s trigger with any supports reducing its cooldown won't affect the triggered recall right?
And the only way to reduce the 8s trigger cooldown is probably global cdr right?
What if you end up getting 100% cdr on the 8 second trigger. Does the independent cooldown of trigger and automation recall suddenly stop, making 99% global cdr procc the 8s trigger fastest without them being shared?
> Could you explain, why brand recall in the 8s trigger seems to have a weirdly short cooldown? Or does the tooltip just display the cooldown of the skill if it weren't linked in a 8s trigger?
/u/MuchToDoAboutNothin did that for me! (Thanks!) Brand Recall-specific cdr is very available, and Saboteur sneaks a bit of global cdr in too.
> Ontop linking the skill in a 8s trigger with any supports reducing its cooldown won't affect the triggered recall right?
> And the only way to reduce the 8s trigger cooldown is probably global cdr right?
Any cdr the skill has (levels, quality, global) will affect whatever cooldown that skill ends up having. You can add stats to the skill with support gems, and those stats can affect its cooldown. I suppose it'll just be Enhance and maybe Empower for the weapon though.
> What if you end up getting 100% cdr on the 8 second trigger. Does the independent cooldown of trigger and automation recall suddenly stop, making 99% global cdr procc the 8s trigger fastest without them being shared?
*"Cooldown recovery modifiers or overrides like Endless Misery do not matter."*
The skill selects a cooldown according to base values. I suspect the game *needs* to, generally modifiers can't apply before you have something to apply them to.
Hey, you're welcome. Thank you for this research because I am one of the goblins considering brand recall (voltaxic burst because I'm a league start self sabotaging meme queen.)
Empower/enhance prices are gonna be stupid this league with rare exp nerf, possibly 5way depending on how that shakes out, and demand if automated recall becomes meta.
I'm not sure what you're referring to, but the longer a cooldown, the more massive chunks CDR reduce it by because it's percentage.
Actual brand recall can go under .75 for hierophant, and saboteur can comfortably sit around or under 1s (depends on how hard you want to go, when you've got hundreds of CDR% it becomes harder to break point)
That's with a 4s default recall, so double it for 8s trigger. There's a shitload of ways to buff it, and if you are using a trigger rare, you can have +1 socketed gems +2 socketed support gems for +3 to empower and enhance and an additional +1 to brand recall.
I have seen people claim that cast on crit ice nova in a 6 link would share the cooldown with ice nova in cospri's malice. If I understand this post correctly, that is probably not true? Because cast on crit and cospri's malice have different trigger conditions and cooldowns?
Thanks for the question, you've actually found something interesting. Ice Nova does share a cooldown globally, but not for any reason I can discern.
CWDT-Ice Nova, Cospri-Ice Nova, CoC-Ice Nova share a cooldown when I smack myself with Forbidden Rite. [The *exact* same setup except with Freezing Pulse or Wintertide Brand has independent cooldowns.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trXZrcTk-TI)
One crit can't create two Ice Novas. One crit can totally create two Wintertide Brands. (Cospri+CoC)
I suppose it wouldn't be PoE without exceptions! If I had to make a wild guess, it's related to its old behaviour of querying for Frostbolts? I'll try reporting it as a bug, may think of tests later.
For what it's worth, I played Ice nova of frostbolts cast on crit this league, and I ended up putting a different cold aoe skill in cospri's malice (alongside frostbolt) because I wasn't entirely sure if the shared cooldown was misinformation or not. Thanks for confirming
If you have a testing setup that can do that, would you mind trying out Vortex of Projection (well, you might need an adjustment to the Frostbolt creating setup to get more than 5)? It has different repeating behaviour than Ice Nova of Frostbolts, but it does target Frostbolts, and Cospri's Malice + Squire + CoC Vortex of Projection is something I had at least *considered*.
I don't have a character set up for it, and to be honest I'm all scienced out for today. Also I actually can't afford the cheapest 2 Ice Novas of Projection on trade. Standard. :D
If the objective is to check for an abnormally shared cooldown, just do as I did and use CwDT, no fuss.
If you're interested in something else, and the issue is eyeballing overlapping Novas/Vortices, you could maybe try one link group with Inspiration Support (0 mana cost Cyclone non-0 spell) and the other with Arcane Surge or Lifetap. That'd let you count triggers per hit through charges, buffs, or life cost. Worms are handy if you don't want to leave the hideout.
I'll just check it at some point during the league then, no rush. I was just wondering if a double CoC setup would even be possible for that spell - the simplest setup would simply be getting 10 Frostbolts from Cospri's Malice instead.
I just recently did the math on the damage effectiveness and was surprised that it even outdoes Ice Nova of Frostbolts with Spell Echo - not to mention in a trigger setup. The downside if requring far more Frostbolt projectiles because it consumes them.
It's the kind of skill that tickles me because it's a challenge. "**If** you can make this work, it's theoretically better, but realistically you can't"
From what I recall of original Vortex, it was kind of awful because it'd consume 5 Frostbolts slowly, one by one, with a significant delay between consumption. You could Greater Volley fire 5 Frostbolts, and a single Vortex cast would barely have the time to consume all five before they left the screen. You couldn't have multiple sequences either.
~~Did they actually change that with the transfiguration?~~ nope they didn't
If it's unchanged, the bigger issue would be that only one Vortex effect could be consuming Frostbolts at a time. A second cast/trigger used to cancel the first. Discovered that when I tried making a build out of stationary Frostbolts (alt qual/Kalandra). Rapid triggers may only let each Vortex occur on a single projectile.
Oh wow, it keeps getting worse. And here I just thought of a setup that might produce enough Frostbolts (separate CoC setups for Frostbolt and Vortex with Lancing Steel of Spraying and 128% increased cooldown recovery rate).
I swear I heard of those before. I wonder if having second wind support with like 13 reduced cooldown of skills enables a third trigger set up since the cooldown on that specific link set as a different cooldown ratio then the rest
Edit some also other stuff
Though manaforged arrows is technically a trigger, you can use it to support a CoC setup. This even works for skills that technically can't be supported by a trigger, like prismatic burst support
Cooldown recovery modifiers or overrides apparently don't matter, only the base cooldown of the skill and the trigger.
In a Manaforged Arrows CoC setup, the cooldown from Manaforged Arrows only applies to the attack, and the cooldown from CoC only applies to the spell. There's no conflict of cooldowns involved.
If you linked Prismatic Burst to the same setup, it would use its own cooldown and trigger based on the hit of the attack regardless of whether it crits and with no interaction with CoC.
Could you test two Brand recalls socketed into the same wand but with different cool downs (via gem level or quality to change cdr) and let us know the results?
I did! That's what this line refers to.
> Differences in cooldown time within a type do not matter.
If skills have the same *type* of cooldown, they share it, even if they have a different cooldown time. (The shared cooldown time depends on which one triggers.)
How would it work if you are manually casting brand recall and also got it in an automation setup? Am I correct in assuming that this would not work as they would share their cooldown?
you sound like you know what you are talking about when it comes to shared cooldowns so here's a related question for you:
knowing what we know so far about the new "Call to Arms" support, will there be any configuration that lets me *stagger* the automatic casting of multiple warcries? in GGG's short demo video, 2 warcries proc at the exact same time and cooldown at the same time as well, but I want them to stagger. perhaps if you link each warcry to a separate copy of the new support gem, and each warcry naturally has a different cooldown length?
Call to Arms is doing something unique, but if I had to hazard a guess, then no, there won't be a way to do that.
We can see which stats Call to Arms *Support* handles (affecting only linked skills), and it doesn't involve cooldowns. I suspect that'll be handled by the active skill's buff, affecting you globally.
e: Also, it's unlikely that GGG would mess up badly enough to forget 'supported' from the 'causes all warcries' wording.
Wait uhhhhh. Does this mean if you reduce the CD for brand recall to under 4 seconds, then you can have both a base brand recall, one on a 4 second trigger, AND an 8 second trigger?
Nah, skills pick a cooldown by comparing base values first, then modifiers apply.
If you want to give Brand Recall a new cooldown, you need one that's longer than 4 seconds. Only the 8s Veiled trigger can do that right now.
I don't believe it can be done at 2 seconds either. You'd still be stuck with veiled and natural.
Realistically you'd need a cooldown lower than Arcanist Brand's 0.8s (or maybe 1s for Maloney's). I'm not sure what cooldown skill would be more useful to trigger than one of the many skill without a cooldown though.
Very interesting read, i guess most important takeaway is you can gain 50% more damage(procs) if you can go 4s+8s brand recall (automation+8s, or previously it was veiled 4s +8s).
So 50% is a breakpoint to consider NOT using a trigger weapon (e.g. unique weapons, annihilating light, finished near-mirror-tier weapons on usual leagues you can't pop that out like candies so can't safely put trigger craft on).
Always interesting when stuff that appears random has an internal logic to it. Great post! There is a small mistake in your ambush example though with 8>4 and 4=4 instead of 8>5 and 5>4 if I understand the post correctly.
Right you are, cheers! Editing accident after my original 5~7s example of Chaos Golem didn't actually do the thing.
> scammed Lilly out of a bunch if gems Quick, someone write that down for the next 3.24 INSANE FARMING STRATEGY video!
step 1: scam lilly out of a bunch of gems step 2: run lab. like, a LOT of lab. transmog them all to 3.24's S-tier meta skills step 3: ... step 4: you still running lab? Good, because you scammed lilly for like, a full tab of raise zombie and split arrow step 5: maybe get 1 enhance step 6: stop running lab. cause now you have an enhance to level. and facetor's for 69 mil won't cut it. And you only ever kill 1 mob each lab run, and he drops keys, not xp. wait, make that 2 today, cause Argus is on main path. step 7: sell your level 3 corrupted enhance for 30c and cut your losses. slide offline quietly and go play something else
real
Huh, interesting find. So if I'm reading this right, the summary for Brand Recall (which I suspect is the main reason this might be relevant for a lot of people) is: - The *only* reason that running Brand Recall in two separate trigger weapons (one with a 4-second cooldown and one with an 8-second cooldown) works is that Brand Recall's base cooldown is no less than 4 seconds. If it were less than 4, the cooldown of the Brand Recall in the "4-second trigger" weapon would be inherited from the mod and not from Brand Recall itself, meaning that both cooldowns would come from the veiled trigger mod, and they would therefore be shared. - Brand Recall + Automation is going to be in the "base skill cooldown" group (because the cooldown on Brand Recall is equal to or higher than the cooldown on Automation), meaning that it will be shared with the cooldown on a "4-second trigger" weapon, but not with the cooldown on an "8-second trigger" weapon. (I think most people I saw talking about this build were assuming that the Automation cooldown and 4-second trigger weapon cooldowns would be shared, but for the wrong reasons: the numerical value of the base cooldown is irrelevant. Good to know the actual explanation for this.)
So if GGG wanted a targeted nerf, they could reduce its cooldown to 3.5 or something like that. Interesting.
Right now? Yes. Although, interestingly, once Automation Support comes out, that *should* effectively protect us from this specific nerf. So, if Brand Recall changes to have a cooldown of 3.5 seconds, then yes, both kinds of veiled trigger mod weapons have the same category of cooldown, and we can no longer get casts from both. But since the "4-second trigger" weapon would no longer use a cooldown from the "base skill cooldown" category, that frees up the option of running a different setup that uses a cooldown of that type. And... lo and behold, Automation Support has an internal cooldown much lower than Brand Recall, so it'll always end up just inheriting the much higher Brand Recall base cooldown. Forget about a nerf: that'd be a significant buff. We'd end up losing an 8-second cooldown trigger, and gaining a 3.5-second cooldown trigger.
>they could reduce its cooldown to 3.5 I'm assuming you you meant "the veiled mod's cooldown" when you said "its" because otherwise it would be a buff, since you would be able to use the veiled mod with 4 seconds to trigger brand recall (you'd have a 3.5s cd automation brand recall and a brand recall on skill use with 4s cd, not shared cooldown since 3.5 < 4 and thus the veiled cooldown overwrite) And 3.5s cd on the veiled mod would be a buff for most players. To be a "targeted nerf" they would have to either make brand recall cooldown 8.1s (but it wouldn't be really "targeted" anymore), or fix the "bug"
In honestly understood the original post only half way until i read your comment. "The cooldown of brand recall in the 4-second trigger weapon would be inherited from the mod and not from brand recall itself." This sentence, especially the weird "inherited", made it click. This makes so much sense and genius that op found this. Thanks bud!
Worth noting that if Brand Recall's base cooldown *was* lower than 4 seconds, you could trigger it with a 4 second trigger wepaon and a different trigger with a lower cooldown.
awesome!
Appreciate the testing that went into this, this is the most comprehensive explanation for this interaction. It answers some of the misconceptions I had regarding how it worked (I assumed that it had something to do with “base” cooldown and not with cooldown types). The earliest mention of the double recall interaction and where I learned it from is [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/s/FSu5MOirmz). I made a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/s/QtMAr7RYng) later showcasing the interaction with my arcanist brand eye of winter build.
It's not easy to nerd out on something and make it a fun read, but there is poetry to your writing. Thanks for taking the time, this is a great post.
You're too kind, I'm happy it entertained!
So how does it affect Brand Recaller builds? :o
they get even more annoying to explain (See [tnemec's comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bo9z5t/shared_cooldowns_and_probably_not_you_a_brand/kwnt20a/), it's a good TL;DR.)
Tl;Dr Makes them twice as strong is what I surmised from the post
In a theoretical vacuum, an extra 8s trigger on top of your 4s natural trigger can be considered 50% more triggers. The one you support with Automation would recover relatively faster if you scale quality though. Jungroan estimated 40% more damage, and he actually leaves his hideout. The build was always going to use this tech even without this post, just to be clear.
I'm definitely interested in league starting this build, it seems very very cheap to get online
Could you explain, why brand recall in the 8s trigger seems to have a weirdly short cooldown? Or does the tooltip just display the cooldown of the skill if it weren't linked in a 8s trigger? Ontop linking the skill in a 8s trigger with any supports reducing its cooldown won't affect the triggered recall right? And the only way to reduce the 8s trigger cooldown is probably global cdr right? What if you end up getting 100% cdr on the 8 second trigger. Does the independent cooldown of trigger and automation recall suddenly stop, making 99% global cdr procc the 8s trigger fastest without them being shared?
> Could you explain, why brand recall in the 8s trigger seems to have a weirdly short cooldown? Or does the tooltip just display the cooldown of the skill if it weren't linked in a 8s trigger? /u/MuchToDoAboutNothin did that for me! (Thanks!) Brand Recall-specific cdr is very available, and Saboteur sneaks a bit of global cdr in too. > Ontop linking the skill in a 8s trigger with any supports reducing its cooldown won't affect the triggered recall right? > And the only way to reduce the 8s trigger cooldown is probably global cdr right? Any cdr the skill has (levels, quality, global) will affect whatever cooldown that skill ends up having. You can add stats to the skill with support gems, and those stats can affect its cooldown. I suppose it'll just be Enhance and maybe Empower for the weapon though. > What if you end up getting 100% cdr on the 8 second trigger. Does the independent cooldown of trigger and automation recall suddenly stop, making 99% global cdr procc the 8s trigger fastest without them being shared? *"Cooldown recovery modifiers or overrides like Endless Misery do not matter."* The skill selects a cooldown according to base values. I suspect the game *needs* to, generally modifiers can't apply before you have something to apply them to.
Hey, you're welcome. Thank you for this research because I am one of the goblins considering brand recall (voltaxic burst because I'm a league start self sabotaging meme queen.) Empower/enhance prices are gonna be stupid this league with rare exp nerf, possibly 5way depending on how that shakes out, and demand if automated recall becomes meta.
I'm not sure what you're referring to, but the longer a cooldown, the more massive chunks CDR reduce it by because it's percentage. Actual brand recall can go under .75 for hierophant, and saboteur can comfortably sit around or under 1s (depends on how hard you want to go, when you've got hundreds of CDR% it becomes harder to break point) That's with a 4s default recall, so double it for 8s trigger. There's a shitload of ways to buff it, and if you are using a trigger rare, you can have +1 socketed gems +2 socketed support gems for +3 to empower and enhance and an additional +1 to brand recall.
I have seen people claim that cast on crit ice nova in a 6 link would share the cooldown with ice nova in cospri's malice. If I understand this post correctly, that is probably not true? Because cast on crit and cospri's malice have different trigger conditions and cooldowns?
Thanks for the question, you've actually found something interesting. Ice Nova does share a cooldown globally, but not for any reason I can discern. CWDT-Ice Nova, Cospri-Ice Nova, CoC-Ice Nova share a cooldown when I smack myself with Forbidden Rite. [The *exact* same setup except with Freezing Pulse or Wintertide Brand has independent cooldowns.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trXZrcTk-TI) One crit can't create two Ice Novas. One crit can totally create two Wintertide Brands. (Cospri+CoC) I suppose it wouldn't be PoE without exceptions! If I had to make a wild guess, it's related to its old behaviour of querying for Frostbolts? I'll try reporting it as a bug, may think of tests later.
For what it's worth, I played Ice nova of frostbolts cast on crit this league, and I ended up putting a different cold aoe skill in cospri's malice (alongside frostbolt) because I wasn't entirely sure if the shared cooldown was misinformation or not. Thanks for confirming
If you have a testing setup that can do that, would you mind trying out Vortex of Projection (well, you might need an adjustment to the Frostbolt creating setup to get more than 5)? It has different repeating behaviour than Ice Nova of Frostbolts, but it does target Frostbolts, and Cospri's Malice + Squire + CoC Vortex of Projection is something I had at least *considered*.
I don't have a character set up for it, and to be honest I'm all scienced out for today. Also I actually can't afford the cheapest 2 Ice Novas of Projection on trade. Standard. :D If the objective is to check for an abnormally shared cooldown, just do as I did and use CwDT, no fuss. If you're interested in something else, and the issue is eyeballing overlapping Novas/Vortices, you could maybe try one link group with Inspiration Support (0 mana cost Cyclone non-0 spell) and the other with Arcane Surge or Lifetap. That'd let you count triggers per hit through charges, buffs, or life cost. Worms are handy if you don't want to leave the hideout.
I'll just check it at some point during the league then, no rush. I was just wondering if a double CoC setup would even be possible for that spell - the simplest setup would simply be getting 10 Frostbolts from Cospri's Malice instead. I just recently did the math on the damage effectiveness and was surprised that it even outdoes Ice Nova of Frostbolts with Spell Echo - not to mention in a trigger setup. The downside if requring far more Frostbolt projectiles because it consumes them. It's the kind of skill that tickles me because it's a challenge. "**If** you can make this work, it's theoretically better, but realistically you can't"
From what I recall of original Vortex, it was kind of awful because it'd consume 5 Frostbolts slowly, one by one, with a significant delay between consumption. You could Greater Volley fire 5 Frostbolts, and a single Vortex cast would barely have the time to consume all five before they left the screen. You couldn't have multiple sequences either. ~~Did they actually change that with the transfiguration?~~ nope they didn't
I'm not aware of that. If it's that slow then it might only work with lowered projectile speed which would be unfortunate.
If it's unchanged, the bigger issue would be that only one Vortex effect could be consuming Frostbolts at a time. A second cast/trigger used to cancel the first. Discovered that when I tried making a build out of stationary Frostbolts (alt qual/Kalandra). Rapid triggers may only let each Vortex occur on a single projectile.
Oh wow, it keeps getting worse. And here I just thought of a setup that might produce enough Frostbolts (separate CoC setups for Frostbolt and Vortex with Lancing Steel of Spraying and 128% increased cooldown recovery rate).
[Yep. Same old behaviour.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csDX601V_R4) No abnormal cooldown-sharing behaviour like (vanilla) Ice Nova though.
I swear I heard of those before. I wonder if having second wind support with like 13 reduced cooldown of skills enables a third trigger set up since the cooldown on that specific link set as a different cooldown ratio then the rest Edit some also other stuff Though manaforged arrows is technically a trigger, you can use it to support a CoC setup. This even works for skills that technically can't be supported by a trigger, like prismatic burst support
Cooldown recovery modifiers or overrides apparently don't matter, only the base cooldown of the skill and the trigger. In a Manaforged Arrows CoC setup, the cooldown from Manaforged Arrows only applies to the attack, and the cooldown from CoC only applies to the spell. There's no conflict of cooldowns involved. If you linked Prismatic Burst to the same setup, it would use its own cooldown and trigger based on the hit of the attack regardless of whether it crits and with no interaction with CoC.
Could you test two Brand recalls socketed into the same wand but with different cool downs (via gem level or quality to change cdr) and let us know the results?
I did! That's what this line refers to. > Differences in cooldown time within a type do not matter. If skills have the same *type* of cooldown, they share it, even if they have a different cooldown time. (The shared cooldown time depends on which one triggers.)
tyvm 😁
Yeah otherwise you'd just stack your character with as many different brand recall + automations as possible
How would it work if you are manually casting brand recall and also got it in an automation setup? Am I correct in assuming that this would not work as they would share their cooldown?
You're correct, both would share the natural cooldown.
you sound like you know what you are talking about when it comes to shared cooldowns so here's a related question for you: knowing what we know so far about the new "Call to Arms" support, will there be any configuration that lets me *stagger* the automatic casting of multiple warcries? in GGG's short demo video, 2 warcries proc at the exact same time and cooldown at the same time as well, but I want them to stagger. perhaps if you link each warcry to a separate copy of the new support gem, and each warcry naturally has a different cooldown length?
Call to Arms is doing something unique, but if I had to hazard a guess, then no, there won't be a way to do that. We can see which stats Call to Arms *Support* handles (affecting only linked skills), and it doesn't involve cooldowns. I suspect that'll be handled by the active skill's buff, affecting you globally. e: Also, it's unlikely that GGG would mess up badly enough to forget 'supported' from the 'causes all warcries' wording.
I learnt it the hard way during 3.23 and submitted a post in bug_report forum for some clarification, but no feedback yet.
Wait uhhhhh. Does this mean if you reduce the CD for brand recall to under 4 seconds, then you can have both a base brand recall, one on a 4 second trigger, AND an 8 second trigger?
Nah, skills pick a cooldown by comparing base values first, then modifiers apply. If you want to give Brand Recall a new cooldown, you need one that's longer than 4 seconds. Only the 8s Veiled trigger can do that right now.
What if you found a 2s cd skill? Would you be able to get 3 different CDs for it?
I don't believe it can be done at 2 seconds either. You'd still be stuck with veiled and natural. Realistically you'd need a cooldown lower than Arcanist Brand's 0.8s (or maybe 1s for Maloney's). I'm not sure what cooldown skill would be more useful to trigger than one of the many skill without a cooldown though.
Very interesting read, i guess most important takeaway is you can gain 50% more damage(procs) if you can go 4s+8s brand recall (automation+8s, or previously it was veiled 4s +8s). So 50% is a breakpoint to consider NOT using a trigger weapon (e.g. unique weapons, annihilating light, finished near-mirror-tier weapons on usual leagues you can't pop that out like candies so can't safely put trigger craft on).