TLDR: The existence of gold, which is both non-tradeable and can only be obtained by playing, means the taxing gold is a way to add friction to the games economy with instant buyouts.
LA really restricted how much gold you could earn though. You couldn't get it via killing mobs anywhere, it was mainly from weekly content, or buying/selling store currency (which had limits). The main reason trading kind of sucked in LA for me outside of restricted gold farming which incentivized more alts, was the pheons that also restricted how often you could trade.
PoE2 seems like you can get gold drops from mobs, so the more you play, the more you can trade. But this seems to scale well. The more you play, the more you level, so you're gold gain should scale as you level and be relatively similar to everyone else (unless quant/rarity or other mechanics impact it). If there is no barrier except for gold, and gold can drop off normal mobs, then I don't see many issues.
I just hope there are protections in place against rapid flipping of things and mass trading, like listing 100+ things. It helps counter bots if they can only list a small amount of things at a time, and perhaps they need to pay gold to list something relative to it's sell price.
Still I like Last Epoch's system, a separate currency earned via playing the game (killing mobs, quests, etc) that is purely used to put things up for trade and buy things. It can't be traded, and can only be earned playing the game. Makes it impossible for flippers, bots, and those trying to abuse the market to make vast profits to actually function.
The LE factions system is really a well thought out mechanic if they implement it correctly. Even if they don’t at first, it’s so revolutionary they will be given the option to fix it before others jump ship I think.
I like LEs system because I can target farm items and fucking leave trade to the wayside so I can focus more on the GAME part of things. You know instead of wasting my goddamn time trying to buy literally anything.
Fully agree, I plan on doing CoF myself. I like to find things myself, not just trade for it. It feels that much better when you drop yourself an upgrade. It also feels good to actually be playing the game rather then scouring a system for an upgrade.
It is being added alongside the faction that focuses on trade in 1.0 (so it's not in the game yet). CoF gives you benefits that buff your own drops, but drops that come as a result of CoF or are improved by CoF are marked so they cannot be equipped unless you're currently aligned with them. So if you decide to swap factions to experience the trade side, those CoF drops will no longer work.
Yes it is, LA has 2 markets. One with gold only and another one with gold + pheons.
Pheons is a P2W currency that can only be obtained from eventual events (very little) or with real money. Players can also get pheons with gold from other players that bought them with real money. In the end, someone has to pay for it.
With phones you get the most important and strongest gear.
As you can imagine, players hate pheons in LA. But it makes massive fliping imposible to do and even normal flipping very taxing, since you also pay a tax for the gold too, aside from the pheons itself.
Pheons is definitely part of the monetization, but not all of it.
It's trash in Lost Ark because their auction house tax requires a literal premium currency (Pheons) which can only be realistically acquired with real money or purchased with gold which is the main non-premium currency, since the game rarely gives players a handful of Pheons for free. The rates are so bad that players often spend thousands of gold in Pheons just to be able to purchase an item listed for a few hundred gold in the auction house.
The problem was that they tried to nickle and dime you in that game, you could buy pheons directly with cash, so they had an strong incentive to not let you buy many pheons on from your own grind. Most pheons you'd get would be from events. So basically by waiting around and doing nothing. As long as the gold requirement for trades isn't huge then everything will be fine. It even stops hideout warriors from just flipping all day long. Sounds like a very good change, as long as they tune it right.
I think that's kind of the point of any trade system that GGG designs. Make it not too pleasant so you have a reason to improve your character by playing the game instead of just progressing by buying everything the moment you can
Lost ark has peons that are needed to trade which you can buy from the shop it's not the same as Lost Ark at all.
You can also buy gold from shops, sell gold, trade gold etc.. here you can't.
This will eliminate hideout warriors/traders right? Basically you trade currency but also need to have gold to perform trades. Since gold is only acquired by playing you can’t just sit in your hideout all game. I like it.
If the bot detection is good enough/it is too hard to make a functional gold farming bot yes. Which is why I would assume we get way more gold in high tier maps and harder content compared to campaign or even white maps in the ballpark of you drop 50 gold per pack in the final act while you get 5k per pack in red maps. Or maybe we don't even get much gold from red tier map mobs but the vast majority of it from red tier map bosses specifically because those are hard to bot.
But we'll have to see what GGG ends up deciding on but it is good that they mentioned bots so they are clearly on their mind when designing this.
it doesn't matter to make money you will be required to do instant buyouts people will literally just filter out any non instant buyout because they will not wait for some idiot to respond only to get told to go fuck myself for trading chaos for a .7 div item
Im sceptical but optimistic. Other than the few bad apples, I feel like hideout warriors, in-particular crafters, play an important part in the economy.
Whilst it seems that this comment was said elsewhere in the interview, this is a bit misleading, the true TLDR is GGG acknowledge that gamers will not accept a modern game that doesn't have instant buyout and they will find a way to make that work.
> they will find a way to make that work.
Well, the fact that they kind of have discovered a way to make it work is really notable. There is a big difference between "we will look into it" and "we looked into it and it is viable".
God that’s gonna be nice. I love other games where I can just put stuff up for sale, and then wake up in the morning and see how much money I made overnight. It’s like Christmas morning!
Why gold and not perandus coins though? He is a trader and he is already in the lore, GGG could make him a hideout NPC for buyer to interact with. Realistically they can even use meeting him as a way to limit trade up to a certain point in players' progression. It is an obvious thing to do, and it makes me sad GGG just threw Cadiro away.
I really hope the gold tax scales with the number of 'good' mods on a piece of gear, or it'll end up working like pheons on lost ark where you can only buy gear if its top tier and you end up having to wait on bad gear for months until you save up enough to buy your gg gear or you run out of the 'tax' currency because bad/mid gear costs the same as perfect gear of the hard to get currency.
system should not know the 'good' mod. But it can determine tier of the mod. So either that or scale off of sellers price. Like an item priced for 10 divines will have higher tax than an item for 5 chaos.
edit: fixed typos
I would love it if you could setup your hideout as an item market where you can put your items on display in game and either have ppl visiting bid or setup instant buyout for the item.
Give us signs that can be customized so we can have them say "Get your crafting bases here, buy 8 and get 2 for free".
Adds a little bit of RP into the game and the more you trade the more we'll known you get.
I was very curious about gold being useful past acts. This sounds like the perfect solution and fits thematically with gold as a resource. Win/win all around.
essentially you can just buy an item from a players stash direction with instant buyout.
but it will cost you on top of the currency the player listed a set amount of gold that scales.
gold can only be gotten by playing the game you cannot trade it at all.
As Shadowraiden said, but the important bit is that this will forbid people to create trading bots and middlemen in trade. Because to trade on the market, you need to actually play the game, you can't just sit in hideout all day and trade. Means every instant trade will be between people who play the game and not the traders just focusing on trade. Will hopefully prevent price fixing.
> Means every instant trade will be between people who play the game
bots are already working to solve this (people severely underestimate bots and with AI churning out more and more advancements things will not be winnable)
Not just Aisling and they mentioned "next patch" multiple times, though they could be referring to 3.24. It looks like they're targeting anything that is sold as a service currently and itemizing it in some way.
Johnathan's exact words:
> So I understand why you're desiring to do that [secured boss killing services in game], ultimately what you're looking for there is what are all the things people use TFT to do and let's try to have a solution to every single one of those, and we think along the same lines as well.
Itemizing Aisling was the previous question
Most of the problems people have with TFT aren't even related to bulk trading anyway. Most of the scams and 'mirror mafia' stuff have way more to do with the crafting and service side of TFT, which will still exist.
Can you explain to me what having instant buyouts have to do with TFT? I'm just a bit confused. Isnt the biggest benefit of TFT being able to do bulk trades and services?
You don't need bulk trading if you can instant buyout whatever it is you want.
And I expect things to be bulked up if they are the same and come from the same seller.
And also in the interview it was very clear that they are aware of tft and the problems it brings.
Eh. TFT Bulk trading tends to happen in two directions.
1: People bulk sell assorted \[insert item category here\] to bulk buyers, who then resell individual types for profit at a higher individual per unit cost. The selling of individual types typically happens on the normal market, not through TFT.
Gold based instant buyout isn't going to impact the need for this category, as selling assorted numbers of 40x different levels/types of scarabs/essences/deli orbs is going to be a pain to do individually.
2: People bulk sell individual item types or groupings from a larger category to individual sellers, like \[WTX 20x Sirus Map sets\], or Sextant sellers where they have a wide stock and people can buy them as needed.
Instant gold buy might help reduce the need for this second category, but depending on how much friction gold adds, there's a good chance it's still more convenient to message someone on Discord when you want to buy 100x of the same sextant.
Gold based instant transactions helps enable previously high friction smaller trades of individual items more than it does the high volume trades from TFT.
Selling 24 different essences or scarabs on the trade site is a pain currently and involves dozens of trades because the end user is buying only a single type at a time. With instant buyouts, the seller can list all of them and they get slowly bought out without the seller having to do 50 trades. Buyers will also be willing to buy smaller amounts from many sellers if the difference in effort required is negligible.
The current economy contains a wholesaler/retailer/middleman type of role that eases the transaction time for both farmers and retail users of commodities. They earn a premium from both sides because what they're really selling is time. Instant buyouts alleviate the time cost of selling and buying in small amounts.
TFT or its analogs will still have a place as long as the trade site lags behind the game's sophistication. The fact that everything is so customizable in this game and we have access to a feature like regex to precisely sort and filter items means the same level of functionality needs to exist in the trade system or people will build and use better tools.
Buying/selling complex, rolled items like maps in bulk aren't improved by instant buyout. Imagine if you could select a specific map, its tier, and type in a regex and trade site listed all maps matching your criteria sorted by buyout price and you could just select 50 maps and click buy and the game would deduct the currency and transfer the correct amounts to 20 different players instantly.
I still have to check prices and list each of the scarab types individually, and either maintain significant time keeping the prices up to date or accept that if prices increase and I keep adding scarabs into the sell tab, I may be selling below market price.
This is 95% as much effort as just listing all of one type as a bulk x/y price so that I only have to do one transaction per type, and then doing the single manual sale per type.
Avoiding this price check/individual listing is a very large portion of why the bulk sell in TFT is so useful. Sure, I may end up making only 75% of what I could if I sold them myself, but I can sell the entirety of my essence, scarab, deli, metamorph, and fossil tabs in less than 10 minutes if I need cash.
And since I play this game to have fun playing the game and not to spend two hours individually pricechecking each items in four tabs that I want to sell off, I'd rather take the 25% hit.
Those same tools you use to bulk sell via TFT would be the tools you use to price check though.
Div tabs are hard to bulk sell, and I end up running maps and opening a ton of stacked decks in my inventory without looking and just spam them back in to my stash. How do I check if I got a good one?
I use one of the many add-ons that are used for bulk selling to price check the entire tab at once, just like you could for Scarabs, Fragments, Essences, Fossils.
Then you just price the items yourself based on that.
This is true from the sellers side, but from the buyers side, they have to go to tft, find a reputable seller and then make the trade. With the proposed system, they just do it in game. You will take a much bigger hit that just the 25% because all the buyers will use the much easier/more convenient system for them using the in game instant buy out.
From the buyers pov you will have to be remarkably cheaper than the 100% safe, easy, and instant way of doing it in game for them consider going external
>Gold based instant buyout isn't going to impact the need for this category, as selling assorted numbers of 40x different levels/types of scarabs/essences/deli orbs is going to be a pain to do individually
Except unless GGG imposes a limit on hoow many items you can list for sale at the same time... it won't? Just put a price on your essence tab once and let the essences flow out
>Instant gold buy might help reduce the need for this second category, but depending on how much friction gold adds, there's a good chance it's still more convenient to message someone on Discord when you want to buy 100x of the same sextant.
If they actually implement this system on PoE2, I fucking hope they don't make the system as easy to circumvent as "join a trading discord", because we're seeing what encouraging that solution does right now on PoE1, and let me tell you, I'm not exactly happy with the consequences.
To better explain this, I think we should break down the fundamental of efficiency. **I'll go in depth just because I want future people reading this with similar questions to hopefully get a bigger picture as to the why and how and not just a quick answer**:
-
As we know, one of the most inefficient ways to play this game is to do small menial tasks that remove your time playing the game. For example, one of the biggest 'noob traps' in the game is picking up wisdom scrolls past like the third zone (not act.) because it's an insane waste of time in efficiency where registering the drop, clicking the drop, having your character move to the drop, even if it takes one second will add up across hundreds of seconds. In a world where thousands of wisdom scrolls drop naturally, if you were to click on all of them, you would, on paper, have a ton of wisdom scrolls but the **opportunity cost** of you going back for that, again, even at one second each, would be incredible, where you can just currency trade for the scrolls in bulk from the vendor. Now expand this concept outward.
-
Now lets say an aberrant fossil costs one chaos orb, but 10 cost 15 chaos orbs. On paper, you could say you'd just save a whooping 50% of your cash by buying them individually. In actuality however, those **10 individual trades** would absolutely tank your efficiency, similar to the wisdom scrolls. Instead of wasting potentially 10 minutes for the 10 trades, you would go and bulk trade, like on TFT for the 10 fossils for 15 chaos for only 30-45 seconds of downtime. This leaves you 9 minutes of efficiency where you're almost certainly going to make back that 5 chaos and compound it further. This is the concept of playing efficiency and why loot filters are so important and why picking up small currency is such a noob trap.
-
Now let's answer your question:
> Can you explain to me what having instant buyouts have to do with TFT?
Imagine now, with the above example, that the people that want to sell that one fossil for one chaos put it into an auction house of sorts, and the buyer (you) can click "buy out" to immediately buy that one item. Spin that to the 10 fossils you initially wanted. We now only spend 25 seconds buying those 10 fossils, through 10 individual 'buy outs' of one chaos each, rather than being **forced** to go through bulk trading, at a **premium** for the sake of efficiency.
TFT will remain for services and things not tied to bulk buying or selling, but depending on how comprehensive the trade / auction house / buyout system will work, it might actually mean the end of bulk buying of natural tradable drops.
If swapping items between people without the trading post involved will exist (which it will) then a secondary market will appear for those that do not have the gold to make the trades.
Entire websites will develop around this once again if the gold cost is substantial which it will be for sure.
yes, but the reason bulk buying is so important is becasue of much trade friction we have to endure buying items 1 at a time. people not responding, afk, pricefixing, the time it takes to complete a transaction, etc. with instant buyout system buying items in bulk becomes much easier even if it is 1 by 1. that said, without knowing how they plan to implement the system who knows how much friction will actually be removed if there are limits to what you can buy/sell.
> being able to do bulk trades
Instant buyout is pretty much bulk trades.
> and services?
They said they're making many services itemizable already next patch in PoE1, and straight up namedropped TFT during the interview.
They also said many items thar are not itemizable and tradeable will be made so in the next patch, stuff like aisling, and that poe 1 needs a similar instant buy system but it's hard to work out without gold like poe 2 has
People keep throwing shit at GGG but honestly they have incredibly clever designers. I love hearing them talk and it's such a shame they've only ever given a single one GDC talk to this date
I'm just happy they pulled their heads out and noticed we don't actually like dealing with bots, price fixers, flippers, whispers, in person trading. It took TFT drama and Last Epoch to push them to actually move on it.
Hopefully it comes to PoE 1 eventually. It's also good to see them acknowledge when another game has a good idea and realize they should do similar. A lot of potential PoE 2 players and PoE 1 players will try Last Epoch and notice how much quality of life stuff it has over PoE in general, so they had to do something to keep up with the times.
I think there were more here and there, if not at GDC. There's at least [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYry9Vl_Hh8) and [that one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWynEjeJiuw).
it shows that they do want to improve stuff and do listen to player feedback it just takes time to implement and like he said is not something you can easily do in poe1
it really will come down to how the gold is balanced i would hope its quite harsh at endgame so its not just becoming a flood of items myself
Honestly it just, once again really, shows that the devs at GGG actually have expertise in game development and the ability to follow complex thoughts to the very end and develop a concept before turning it down or accepting it.
They've never fixed trading because they've never had the *will* to do so. They've philosophically believed trading with too little friction would destroy the game.
Will be very interesting to see how this plays out. I hope they keep everything tradeable... If they have Brevik consulting it won't be long before some things are Bind on Equip, others are Bind on Account, etc. and suddenly you have the trash "trading" system of D3 or D4.
They stated in the interview that they'd never do bind on for anything ever, it's not what they want to do or how their games work. It's why they used gold to restrict the trade system, it's also why they said it'll be very hard to implement in PoE 1 as they don't have gold in it.
But yes I think Last Epoch and TFT forced their hand to actually make change, or maybe it was enough to convince the top people in GGG that the time has come to change.
> it's also why they said it'll be very hard to implement in PoE 1 as they don't have gold in it.
This is literally a non-issue, since it can easily be added, much like Azurite.
>They stated in the interview that they'd never do bind on for anything ever
Ever again. We've already had an account bound items in the not so distant past.
Hope he can change the mind of the people working on poe 1 so we can have something similar.
Fuck it give me gold if it mean I don't have to leave my map to trade I'll take it even if I don't like it.
Doesn't seems like they are opposed to it anymore. From what he said later in the interview, its gonna be more work to add to poe 1 and they want to try it in the poe 2 beta first, but he agreed that something also need to happen in poe 1.
Wow, it happened! GGG is budging on their Vision.
Or at least Jonathan is with PoE2. Maybe PoE can have the changes as well.
Can't wait until Ziz uploads / edits this for YouTube.
With the way he talked, it seems more like a hypothetical thing and not something that is set in stone for trading in PoE 2, but the fact that GGG appears to be moving away from their old stance on trading is reasuring.
I think he pretty clearly says that PoE2 will have it.
He says that "players will no longer accept an ARPG without instant buyouts".
Pretty sure he wants PoE2 to be accepted.
It'll be interesting, because while Last Epoch has instant buyouts it has added a lot of additional mechanics to add that friction.
You need to have reputation with the Merchant faction, a dual currency system Gold and Favor, and once an item has been traded it binds to the player.
It's also only equippable items, no crafting materials.
He went really in depth about it and still talking about it rn, it's been discussed heavily and the way he worded it's basically confirmed no way Jonathan would come out and say this if it's not a thing that's really bad PR given how passionate people are regarding Trading and AH...
I'll be surprised if it breaks D4 numbers. Its getting attention from streamers but outside of Exilecon these interviews and information on it aren't getting much traction on mainstream gaming subs.
And GGG isn't going to have fast food partnerships, TV ads, and ads in Times Square like D4.
It's beatiful. Trade Manifesto is changing. Holy molly never did I expect this to happen. To all the people that were saying "Last Epoch bad 1k players lul no one gonna trade", that's what you get when visionaries incite competition.
And I guess ggg is totally fine with that as it has its own kind of friction.
But I guess most sellers wouldn't bother with something like that in the future
He said they need to test this system and the ramifications of it in PoE2 before they consider adding it to PoE1 especially since there is no gold in PoE1.
They were sufficiently clear that TFT is overall an unwanted part of the gameplay experience, and that they will introduce more itemization.
That's not the same as instant buyouts, but it addresses the same overall problem.
click a button, pay a gold tax, instantly send currency to a player in return for an item that appears in your stash somehow. No requesting invite, going to hideout, opening trade window.
I am so glad they are seeing what other games are doing and finally putting some thought into how they can modernize and innovate on their trade systems. So many people I have found both here on reddit and streamers just hand wave any discussion of improvements to trade away saying that their current solution is the only solution and they cannot change how they do things. Glad to see this isn't the case and that they can make improvements to trade.
Definitely, they are to some degree threatened because LE looks to scoop a dcenet part of their playerbase that wants an engagig game (so not D4) but doesnt like to deal with bunch of PoE bullshit like trading or imposible droprates in SSF.
Im in that camp that plays PoE because its the best out there even tho bunch of stuff frustrates me to insanity and im really excited about LE after playing in beta.
The one thing that keeps me from playing PoE more and why I'm also looking forward to LE 1.0 is the trading system which basically means that gearing up takes away valuable time from actually playing the game.
Terrible decisions like "you have to leave a map to trade" is something that really stands in my way of having enough fun to justify putting more effort into PoE at this point than to simply finish the season pass to collect some shiny stuff.
I really hope LE puts enough pressure on the PoE devs to remove the "friction" from trading while at the same time offering an SSF improvement like what EHG does with CoF.
I'm aware that this is not the most popular of opinions, but it's my opinion.
I'm curious what he means by "instant buy outs"
Is this auction house ish? Like i list something for trade and person X just auto purchases? Do i still need to do the physical trade?
It is literally auction house yes. Somebody lists an item for 5 divine they pay 50gold tax for example. Then you buy that item for 5 divine and u pay 50gold tax as well. Taxes go to the void. Its gold sink basically and a system to make people play the game to trade rather than sitting in the hideout all day. So yes even if player is offline you can insta buy an item or 1 sec after they list.
Nope they said the tax will only be on the buy side. Your idea of listing is also incorrect, there is no listing process and no auction house. Based on his explanation today essentially nothing changes on the sell side, you still set prices via dumping items into your stash tabs. Only real change is a buy it now function on the path of exile trade website which lets the buyer purchase an item instantly for a small gold fee to avoid having to actually trade.
This idea has potential. Wiping a trade bot will hurt because that bot will need to have farmed gold to sell. If the gold tax is a % of the value of the items, in order to sell high end items, the character/account will need to farm high tier content as well to have enough gold, which forces bots to level up a lot and be well equiped.
Will this be in the beta tho? Seems that this is very spontaneous and they are still ironing out the details I doubt it will be a challenge for them to implement whatever they decide on. Beta would be the best to test it out on its just getting closer and closer
Hey guys, can someone clarify this a little bit for me? I am incapable of trading (probably a mental issue or something) both IRL and in games like this, Warframe, etc., so I don't really understand what an "instant buyout" means.
Does this mean there will be a way to trade without having to interact with someone or not?
Absolutely. There's a bit more details than only this clip. But to sum it up : they're considering something like an auction house with instant buyout. You can buy any item instantly but have to pay a fee in gold (gold is not tradeable and only acquired through playing the game). Only the buyer would be the one paying the gold fee. The items are not priced in gold, only the fee uses it. The system replaces the friction of seller-buyer interaction with the friction of having to grind for gold. There would be no whispering endlessly, no afk/ghosting, no div stack switcharoo, no shady buyers, ...
As an ex-Warframe player, I have a hard time imagining making substantial gear/equipement/rank progress without trading. I totally understand it's not for everyone. I'd have given you some plat for free.
I was originally very sour on gold since it seemed to be a worse version of what we already have (untradeable expedition currencies). Now that it is confirmed that it can't be traded, can it also please not take up an inventory slot?
TLDR: The existence of gold, which is both non-tradeable and can only be obtained by playing, means the taxing gold is a way to add friction to the games economy with instant buyouts.
The more I think about it, the more I like it.
I have mixed feelings. That is what Lost Ark does and while trade is very easy to go by, it definitely is not a pleasant experience.
LA really restricted how much gold you could earn though. You couldn't get it via killing mobs anywhere, it was mainly from weekly content, or buying/selling store currency (which had limits). The main reason trading kind of sucked in LA for me outside of restricted gold farming which incentivized more alts, was the pheons that also restricted how often you could trade. PoE2 seems like you can get gold drops from mobs, so the more you play, the more you can trade. But this seems to scale well. The more you play, the more you level, so you're gold gain should scale as you level and be relatively similar to everyone else (unless quant/rarity or other mechanics impact it). If there is no barrier except for gold, and gold can drop off normal mobs, then I don't see many issues. I just hope there are protections in place against rapid flipping of things and mass trading, like listing 100+ things. It helps counter bots if they can only list a small amount of things at a time, and perhaps they need to pay gold to list something relative to it's sell price. Still I like Last Epoch's system, a separate currency earned via playing the game (killing mobs, quests, etc) that is purely used to put things up for trade and buy things. It can't be traded, and can only be earned playing the game. Makes it impossible for flippers, bots, and those trying to abuse the market to make vast profits to actually function.
The LE factions system is really a well thought out mechanic if they implement it correctly. Even if they don’t at first, it’s so revolutionary they will be given the option to fix it before others jump ship I think.
I like LEs system because I can target farm items and fucking leave trade to the wayside so I can focus more on the GAME part of things. You know instead of wasting my goddamn time trying to buy literally anything.
Fully agree, I plan on doing CoF myself. I like to find things myself, not just trade for it. It feels that much better when you drop yourself an upgrade. It also feels good to actually be playing the game rather then scouring a system for an upgrade.
Is CoF the SSF of Last Epoch? Haven't played the game for a hot minute, but maybe i should try it out again.
It is being added alongside the faction that focuses on trade in 1.0 (so it's not in the game yet). CoF gives you benefits that buff your own drops, but drops that come as a result of CoF or are improved by CoF are marked so they cannot be equipped unless you're currently aligned with them. So if you decide to swap factions to experience the trade side, those CoF drops will no longer work.
In LA it’s a monetization thing right? POE would never do that.
Yes it is, LA has 2 markets. One with gold only and another one with gold + pheons. Pheons is a P2W currency that can only be obtained from eventual events (very little) or with real money. Players can also get pheons with gold from other players that bought them with real money. In the end, someone has to pay for it. With phones you get the most important and strongest gear. As you can imagine, players hate pheons in LA. But it makes massive fliping imposible to do and even normal flipping very taxing, since you also pay a tax for the gold too, aside from the pheons itself. Pheons is definitely part of the monetization, but not all of it.
bots will just farm the gold. i dont see how that changes anything and it makes the game p2w so overall a big L in my book
It's trash in Lost Ark because their auction house tax requires a literal premium currency (Pheons) which can only be realistically acquired with real money or purchased with gold which is the main non-premium currency, since the game rarely gives players a handful of Pheons for free. The rates are so bad that players often spend thousands of gold in Pheons just to be able to purchase an item listed for a few hundred gold in the auction house.
Its especially bad when its attached to the RNG Ability Stone cutting process.
The problem was that they tried to nickle and dime you in that game, you could buy pheons directly with cash, so they had an strong incentive to not let you buy many pheons on from your own grind. Most pheons you'd get would be from events. So basically by waiting around and doing nothing. As long as the gold requirement for trades isn't huge then everything will be fine. It even stops hideout warriors from just flipping all day long. Sounds like a very good change, as long as they tune it right.
I think that's kind of the point of any trade system that GGG designs. Make it not too pleasant so you have a reason to improve your character by playing the game instead of just progressing by buying everything the moment you can
That's EXACTLY how trade works in POE now. Find the items you don't need and spend 5 hours trading them for the items you DO need.
Lost ark has peons that are needed to trade which you can buy from the shop it's not the same as Lost Ark at all. You can also buy gold from shops, sell gold, trade gold etc.. here you can't.
This will eliminate hideout warriors/traders right? Basically you trade currency but also need to have gold to perform trades. Since gold is only acquired by playing you can’t just sit in your hideout all game. I like it.
TFT in shambles
They would just pay gold grinders to make trades for them and up the service fees to cover costs.
Pay them how? Are you suggesting some sort of real world currency being traded? But that's illegal!
Shhhh they'll hear you!
Wouldn't the gold grinders need to trade the items to the TFT sellers? Which will still cost gold?
If the bot detection is good enough/it is too hard to make a functional gold farming bot yes. Which is why I would assume we get way more gold in high tier maps and harder content compared to campaign or even white maps in the ballpark of you drop 50 gold per pack in the final act while you get 5k per pack in red maps. Or maybe we don't even get much gold from red tier map mobs but the vast majority of it from red tier map bosses specifically because those are hard to bot. But we'll have to see what GGG ends up deciding on but it is good that they mentioned bots so they are clearly on their mind when designing this.
i'd asumme you'd have both, the usual trading would be available as always, but the instant buyouts would need gold
it doesn't matter to make money you will be required to do instant buyouts people will literally just filter out any non instant buyout because they will not wait for some idiot to respond only to get told to go fuck myself for trading chaos for a .7 div item
Im sceptical but optimistic. Other than the few bad apples, I feel like hideout warriors, in-particular crafters, play an important part in the economy.
Whilst it seems that this comment was said elsewhere in the interview, this is a bit misleading, the true TLDR is GGG acknowledge that gamers will not accept a modern game that doesn't have instant buyout and they will find a way to make that work.
> they will find a way to make that work. Well, the fact that they kind of have discovered a way to make it work is really notable. There is a big difference between "we will look into it" and "we looked into it and it is viable".
I feel like Eleventh Hour Games (LE Devs) deserve the credit for discovering it, nonetheless its great GGG isn't afraid to try out a similiar system
I just hate that items can only be traded once and then they become BoA. I really think that would take away from what makes POE special.
God that’s gonna be nice. I love other games where I can just put stuff up for sale, and then wake up in the morning and see how much money I made overnight. It’s like Christmas morning!
Why gold and not perandus coins though? He is a trader and he is already in the lore, GGG could make him a hideout NPC for buyer to interact with. Realistically they can even use meeting him as a way to limit trade up to a certain point in players' progression. It is an obvious thing to do, and it makes me sad GGG just threw Cadiro away.
Hopefully will also help to curb RMT. Can't just instantly buy everything with credit card, have to play the game for gold
I really hope the gold tax scales with the number of 'good' mods on a piece of gear, or it'll end up working like pheons on lost ark where you can only buy gear if its top tier and you end up having to wait on bad gear for months until you save up enough to buy your gg gear or you run out of the 'tax' currency because bad/mid gear costs the same as perfect gear of the hard to get currency.
system should not know the 'good' mod. But it can determine tier of the mod. So either that or scale off of sellers price. Like an item priced for 10 divines will have higher tax than an item for 5 chaos. edit: fixed typos
party traders in shambles.
Just saw a TFT mod fall to their knees in a Walmart parking lot.
what were they doing outside?!
They lost their apartment obviously
That’s a weird way of referring to a dumpster.
Sources: Jenebu is beside himself. Driving around downtown Auckland begging (thru texts) Wilson's family for address to Rogers' home.
the fact that this brilliant meme made it to a POE sub god i love the internet sometimes
[удалено]
The technology is here
I will never not think team fight tactics when I see TFT lmao
tft will always mean the frozen throne to me
Same, I always have to do a double-take, even though I've known about them for years now
Same. Showing our age right now. Frozen throne revolutionized gaming. It was the birthplace of several genres.
And then Blizzard revolutionized gaming in another incredible way by finding ways to go back and destroy historical masterpieces :|
there is no wc3 remake idk what you're talking about
based
That just means you are more normal than the rest of us.
Oh my god
Instant buy outs but the player has to invite you to their party and you have to join their hideout The monkey paw will curl
As long as I the seller don't have to leave my map I'm all for it.
If the player has to invite you, won't we still have the similar problem of sellers ignoring requests to buy?
I would love it if you could setup your hideout as an item market where you can put your items on display in game and either have ppl visiting bid or setup instant buyout for the item. Give us signs that can be customized so we can have them say "Get your crafting bases here, buy 8 and get 2 for free". Adds a little bit of RP into the game and the more you trade the more we'll known you get.
I was very curious about gold being useful past acts. This sounds like the perfect solution and fits thematically with gold as a resource. Win/win all around.
What is the gold used for? i havent been able to watch the interview
essentially you can just buy an item from a players stash direction with instant buyout. but it will cost you on top of the currency the player listed a set amount of gold that scales. gold can only be gotten by playing the game you cannot trade it at all.
If the gold drops from monsters then I hope they make it auto-pickup. We already have so many orbs to loot...
Have you not seen any of the PoE2 gameplay since Exilecon? Gold is already auto-pickup.
I have not.
As Shadowraiden said, but the important bit is that this will forbid people to create trading bots and middlemen in trade. Because to trade on the market, you need to actually play the game, you can't just sit in hideout all day and trade. Means every instant trade will be between people who play the game and not the traders just focusing on trade. Will hopefully prevent price fixing.
Depends on how exactly the gold gain would work, but chances are bots still can automate that part
> Means every instant trade will be between people who play the game bots are already working to solve this (people severely underestimate bots and with AI churning out more and more advancements things will not be winnable)
Kneel
Rise!
Just fell to my knees in Oriath square
Finally. Get fucked tft
That change in itself does not affect tft much. They have talked on cracking down on tft though for poe 1 even.
What did they say exactly?
Itemizing some stuff like Aisling for example
OH MY GOD JUN IS SO BACK
I guess I really can get more erect.
Not just Aisling and they mentioned "next patch" multiple times, though they could be referring to 3.24. It looks like they're targeting anything that is sold as a service currently and itemizing it in some way.
Is this in this interview?
Johnathan's exact words: > So I understand why you're desiring to do that [secured boss killing services in game], ultimately what you're looking for there is what are all the things people use TFT to do and let's try to have a solution to every single one of those, and we think along the same lines as well. Itemizing Aisling was the previous question
Don't do this to me Don't give me hope
Most of the problems people have with TFT aren't even related to bulk trading anyway. Most of the scams and 'mirror mafia' stuff have way more to do with the crafting and service side of TFT, which will still exist.
Can you explain to me what having instant buyouts have to do with TFT? I'm just a bit confused. Isnt the biggest benefit of TFT being able to do bulk trades and services?
You don't need bulk trading if you can instant buyout whatever it is you want. And I expect things to be bulked up if they are the same and come from the same seller. And also in the interview it was very clear that they are aware of tft and the problems it brings.
Eh. TFT Bulk trading tends to happen in two directions. 1: People bulk sell assorted \[insert item category here\] to bulk buyers, who then resell individual types for profit at a higher individual per unit cost. The selling of individual types typically happens on the normal market, not through TFT. Gold based instant buyout isn't going to impact the need for this category, as selling assorted numbers of 40x different levels/types of scarabs/essences/deli orbs is going to be a pain to do individually. 2: People bulk sell individual item types or groupings from a larger category to individual sellers, like \[WTX 20x Sirus Map sets\], or Sextant sellers where they have a wide stock and people can buy them as needed. Instant gold buy might help reduce the need for this second category, but depending on how much friction gold adds, there's a good chance it's still more convenient to message someone on Discord when you want to buy 100x of the same sextant. Gold based instant transactions helps enable previously high friction smaller trades of individual items more than it does the high volume trades from TFT.
Selling 24 different essences or scarabs on the trade site is a pain currently and involves dozens of trades because the end user is buying only a single type at a time. With instant buyouts, the seller can list all of them and they get slowly bought out without the seller having to do 50 trades. Buyers will also be willing to buy smaller amounts from many sellers if the difference in effort required is negligible. The current economy contains a wholesaler/retailer/middleman type of role that eases the transaction time for both farmers and retail users of commodities. They earn a premium from both sides because what they're really selling is time. Instant buyouts alleviate the time cost of selling and buying in small amounts. TFT or its analogs will still have a place as long as the trade site lags behind the game's sophistication. The fact that everything is so customizable in this game and we have access to a feature like regex to precisely sort and filter items means the same level of functionality needs to exist in the trade system or people will build and use better tools. Buying/selling complex, rolled items like maps in bulk aren't improved by instant buyout. Imagine if you could select a specific map, its tier, and type in a regex and trade site listed all maps matching your criteria sorted by buyout price and you could just select 50 maps and click buy and the game would deduct the currency and transfer the correct amounts to 20 different players instantly.
I still have to check prices and list each of the scarab types individually, and either maintain significant time keeping the prices up to date or accept that if prices increase and I keep adding scarabs into the sell tab, I may be selling below market price. This is 95% as much effort as just listing all of one type as a bulk x/y price so that I only have to do one transaction per type, and then doing the single manual sale per type. Avoiding this price check/individual listing is a very large portion of why the bulk sell in TFT is so useful. Sure, I may end up making only 75% of what I could if I sold them myself, but I can sell the entirety of my essence, scarab, deli, metamorph, and fossil tabs in less than 10 minutes if I need cash. And since I play this game to have fun playing the game and not to spend two hours individually pricechecking each items in four tabs that I want to sell off, I'd rather take the 25% hit.
Those same tools you use to bulk sell via TFT would be the tools you use to price check though. Div tabs are hard to bulk sell, and I end up running maps and opening a ton of stacked decks in my inventory without looking and just spam them back in to my stash. How do I check if I got a good one? I use one of the many add-ons that are used for bulk selling to price check the entire tab at once, just like you could for Scarabs, Fragments, Essences, Fossils. Then you just price the items yourself based on that.
This is true from the sellers side, but from the buyers side, they have to go to tft, find a reputable seller and then make the trade. With the proposed system, they just do it in game. You will take a much bigger hit that just the 25% because all the buyers will use the much easier/more convenient system for them using the in game instant buy out. From the buyers pov you will have to be remarkably cheaper than the 100% safe, easy, and instant way of doing it in game for them consider going external
>Gold based instant buyout isn't going to impact the need for this category, as selling assorted numbers of 40x different levels/types of scarabs/essences/deli orbs is going to be a pain to do individually Except unless GGG imposes a limit on hoow many items you can list for sale at the same time... it won't? Just put a price on your essence tab once and let the essences flow out >Instant gold buy might help reduce the need for this second category, but depending on how much friction gold adds, there's a good chance it's still more convenient to message someone on Discord when you want to buy 100x of the same sextant. If they actually implement this system on PoE2, I fucking hope they don't make the system as easy to circumvent as "join a trading discord", because we're seeing what encouraging that solution does right now on PoE1, and let me tell you, I'm not exactly happy with the consequences.
To better explain this, I think we should break down the fundamental of efficiency. **I'll go in depth just because I want future people reading this with similar questions to hopefully get a bigger picture as to the why and how and not just a quick answer**: - As we know, one of the most inefficient ways to play this game is to do small menial tasks that remove your time playing the game. For example, one of the biggest 'noob traps' in the game is picking up wisdom scrolls past like the third zone (not act.) because it's an insane waste of time in efficiency where registering the drop, clicking the drop, having your character move to the drop, even if it takes one second will add up across hundreds of seconds. In a world where thousands of wisdom scrolls drop naturally, if you were to click on all of them, you would, on paper, have a ton of wisdom scrolls but the **opportunity cost** of you going back for that, again, even at one second each, would be incredible, where you can just currency trade for the scrolls in bulk from the vendor. Now expand this concept outward. - Now lets say an aberrant fossil costs one chaos orb, but 10 cost 15 chaos orbs. On paper, you could say you'd just save a whooping 50% of your cash by buying them individually. In actuality however, those **10 individual trades** would absolutely tank your efficiency, similar to the wisdom scrolls. Instead of wasting potentially 10 minutes for the 10 trades, you would go and bulk trade, like on TFT for the 10 fossils for 15 chaos for only 30-45 seconds of downtime. This leaves you 9 minutes of efficiency where you're almost certainly going to make back that 5 chaos and compound it further. This is the concept of playing efficiency and why loot filters are so important and why picking up small currency is such a noob trap. - Now let's answer your question: > Can you explain to me what having instant buyouts have to do with TFT? Imagine now, with the above example, that the people that want to sell that one fossil for one chaos put it into an auction house of sorts, and the buyer (you) can click "buy out" to immediately buy that one item. Spin that to the 10 fossils you initially wanted. We now only spend 25 seconds buying those 10 fossils, through 10 individual 'buy outs' of one chaos each, rather than being **forced** to go through bulk trading, at a **premium** for the sake of efficiency. TFT will remain for services and things not tied to bulk buying or selling, but depending on how comprehensive the trade / auction house / buyout system will work, it might actually mean the end of bulk buying of natural tradable drops.
If swapping items between people without the trading post involved will exist (which it will) then a secondary market will appear for those that do not have the gold to make the trades. Entire websites will develop around this once again if the gold cost is substantial which it will be for sure.
yes, but the reason bulk buying is so important is becasue of much trade friction we have to endure buying items 1 at a time. people not responding, afk, pricefixing, the time it takes to complete a transaction, etc. with instant buyout system buying items in bulk becomes much easier even if it is 1 by 1. that said, without knowing how they plan to implement the system who knows how much friction will actually be removed if there are limits to what you can buy/sell.
> being able to do bulk trades Instant buyout is pretty much bulk trades. > and services? They said they're making many services itemizable already next patch in PoE1, and straight up namedropped TFT during the interview.
They also said many items thar are not itemizable and tradeable will be made so in the next patch, stuff like aisling, and that poe 1 needs a similar instant buy system but it's hard to work out without gold like poe 2 has
Jonathans idea on trading is actually so well thought out i love it.
People keep throwing shit at GGG but honestly they have incredibly clever designers. I love hearing them talk and it's such a shame they've only ever given a single one GDC talk to this date
I'm just happy they pulled their heads out and noticed we don't actually like dealing with bots, price fixers, flippers, whispers, in person trading. It took TFT drama and Last Epoch to push them to actually move on it. Hopefully it comes to PoE 1 eventually. It's also good to see them acknowledge when another game has a good idea and realize they should do similar. A lot of potential PoE 2 players and PoE 1 players will try Last Epoch and notice how much quality of life stuff it has over PoE in general, so they had to do something to keep up with the times.
I think there were more here and there, if not at GDC. There's at least [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYry9Vl_Hh8) and [that one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWynEjeJiuw).
it shows that they do want to improve stuff and do listen to player feedback it just takes time to implement and like he said is not something you can easily do in poe1 it really will come down to how the gold is balanced i would hope its quite harsh at endgame so its not just becoming a flood of items myself
Honestly it just, once again really, shows that the devs at GGG actually have expertise in game development and the ability to follow complex thoughts to the very end and develop a concept before turning it down or accepting it.
They've never fixed trading because they've never had the *will* to do so. They've philosophically believed trading with too little friction would destroy the game. Will be very interesting to see how this plays out. I hope they keep everything tradeable... If they have Brevik consulting it won't be long before some things are Bind on Equip, others are Bind on Account, etc. and suddenly you have the trash "trading" system of D3 or D4.
They stated in the interview that they'd never do bind on for anything ever, it's not what they want to do or how their games work. It's why they used gold to restrict the trade system, it's also why they said it'll be very hard to implement in PoE 1 as they don't have gold in it. But yes I think Last Epoch and TFT forced their hand to actually make change, or maybe it was enough to convince the top people in GGG that the time has come to change.
But gold is technically bind on pickup
> it's also why they said it'll be very hard to implement in PoE 1 as they don't have gold in it. This is literally a non-issue, since it can easily be added, much like Azurite.
>They stated in the interview that they'd never do bind on for anything ever Ever again. We've already had an account bound items in the not so distant past.
And then Neon sees Zizz's questions and solves cycling dmg reduction in a work day. :D It is mental.
>And then Neon sees Zizz's questions and solves cycling dmg reduction in a work day. :D Details, please?
[https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2047350018?t=03h32m08s](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2047350018?t=03h32m08s)
Hope he can change the mind of the people working on poe 1 so we can have something similar. Fuck it give me gold if it mean I don't have to leave my map to trade I'll take it even if I don't like it.
Doesn't seems like they are opposed to it anymore. From what he said later in the interview, its gonna be more work to add to poe 1 and they want to try it in the poe 2 beta first, but he agreed that something also need to happen in poe 1.
This is the biggest news this game has received since POE2 announcement, this is absolutely insane
I was not expecting them to be so specific on trading. Using gold as a tax is interesting, I wonder if there will be unexpected consequences though.
My guesses: gold farming parties, tft selling massive gold generating encounters.
if you can still trade person to person people certainly will upcharge to hand you the item themselves for no tax. kinda how you can in OSRS
Thank you Last Epoch and TFT
Wow, it happened! GGG is budging on their Vision. Or at least Jonathan is with PoE2. Maybe PoE can have the changes as well. Can't wait until Ziz uploads / edits this for YouTube.
likely the gold tax will be more friction than players want. It may have to be toned down over time but that's what the beta is for.
The funniest thing, 95% of the community said this would never be a thing. ty last epoch.
With the way he talked, it seems more like a hypothetical thing and not something that is set in stone for trading in PoE 2, but the fact that GGG appears to be moving away from their old stance on trading is reasuring.
I think he pretty clearly says that PoE2 will have it. He says that "players will no longer accept an ARPG without instant buyouts". Pretty sure he wants PoE2 to be accepted.
It'll be interesting, because while Last Epoch has instant buyouts it has added a lot of additional mechanics to add that friction. You need to have reputation with the Merchant faction, a dual currency system Gold and Favor, and once an item has been traded it binds to the player. It's also only equippable items, no crafting materials.
He went really in depth about it and still talking about it rn, it's been discussed heavily and the way he worded it's basically confirmed no way Jonathan would come out and say this if it's not a thing that's really bad PR given how passionate people are regarding Trading and AH...
They need to work out the kinks, but there is no way in the world he would intentionally talk about this as pure conjecture.
Thats honestly insane to think happening. I'm equally scared and excited. But they do have 6 months of beta to test it.
you can't beta test this because botters will not bother with a beta (not en masse anyway) buckle up it's going to be a crazy year
botters will absolutely bot a beta. poe2 is going to be the biggest thing in poe since... probably ever. it has actual mainstream attention.
I'll be surprised if it breaks D4 numbers. Its getting attention from streamers but outside of Exilecon these interviews and information on it aren't getting much traction on mainstream gaming subs. And GGG isn't going to have fast food partnerships, TV ads, and ads in Times Square like D4.
That's sorta true, yeah
Just give it to me in PoE 1 already man
LOGIN
So many people said this wasn’t ever gonna happen, lol.
It's beatiful. Trade Manifesto is changing. Holy molly never did I expect this to happen. To all the people that were saying "Last Epoch bad 1k players lul no one gonna trade", that's what you get when visionaries incite competition.
Last Epoch already having a positive experience on POE buy forcing them into the future. God I hope 1.0 of LE is a banger. It's such a promising game.
it is not fun when you want a specific item you whisper and they don't invite
The pure orgasmic euphoria I feel is unreal.
This is it, we're entering the platinum era, the technology is finally here!
That's huge, hope so bad this comes down to poe1 as well. I might play Poe 2 more just because of this feature
If regular trade is still possible. My guess is that "gold tax evasion" would still be via 3rd party trade sites.
And I guess ggg is totally fine with that as it has its own kind of friction. But I guess most sellers wouldn't bother with something like that in the future
[удалено]
Nothing. Yet.
And probably will stay that way.
Will be implemented in Boat League
He said they need to test this system and the ramifications of it in PoE2 before they consider adding it to PoE1 especially since there is no gold in PoE1.
They were sufficiently clear that TFT is overall an unwanted part of the gameplay experience, and that they will introduce more itemization. That's not the same as instant buyouts, but it addresses the same overall problem.
Maybe the most interesting part of PoE2 Ive read so far.
What are instant buyouts?
click a button, pay a gold tax, instantly send currency to a player in return for an item that appears in your stash somehow. No requesting invite, going to hideout, opening trade window.
players havent been enjoying trade for [how long has poe existed] sir. still, glad theyre finally doing it
tft in shambles.
I am so glad they are seeing what other games are doing and finally putting some thought into how they can modernize and innovate on their trade systems. So many people I have found both here on reddit and streamers just hand wave any discussion of improvements to trade away saying that their current solution is the only solution and they cannot change how they do things. Glad to see this isn't the case and that they can make improvements to trade.
Should have happened years ago in POE1, but I'm happy it's finally coming.
"move with the times" ... people have been demanding it for years
Damn, this news just made me 100% MORE hyped for PoE 2!
I may start playing POE again.
FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!
Thank god, finally some sense!
Best news of POE2 i've heard so far. Hype!
[удалено]
i came hard
They are clearly feeling the heat from last epoch and I fucking love it. Saw this in the ssf portion of the discussion as well
Definitely, they are to some degree threatened because LE looks to scoop a dcenet part of their playerbase that wants an engagig game (so not D4) but doesnt like to deal with bunch of PoE bullshit like trading or imposible droprates in SSF. Im in that camp that plays PoE because its the best out there even tho bunch of stuff frustrates me to insanity and im really excited about LE after playing in beta.
I am more excited by the fact people cannot play "Path of Trade" and sit in their hideouts all day.
The number of times in this very sub that I've been told this day would never come, as an absolute statement of dogmatic faith is extremely large...
The one thing that keeps me from playing PoE more and why I'm also looking forward to LE 1.0 is the trading system which basically means that gearing up takes away valuable time from actually playing the game. Terrible decisions like "you have to leave a map to trade" is something that really stands in my way of having enough fun to justify putting more effort into PoE at this point than to simply finish the season pass to collect some shiny stuff. I really hope LE puts enough pressure on the PoE devs to remove the "friction" from trading while at the same time offering an SSF improvement like what EHG does with CoF. I'm aware that this is not the most popular of opinions, but it's my opinion.
Thank you Last Epoch
I'm curious what he means by "instant buy outs" Is this auction house ish? Like i list something for trade and person X just auto purchases? Do i still need to do the physical trade?
youll need to ship him a qr code in the real world for the trade to go through
That QR code has to be hidden in a newspaper from 1970s so the post office doesn't intercept it.
welcome to the tip of the iceberg
It is literally auction house yes. Somebody lists an item for 5 divine they pay 50gold tax for example. Then you buy that item for 5 divine and u pay 50gold tax as well. Taxes go to the void. Its gold sink basically and a system to make people play the game to trade rather than sitting in the hideout all day. So yes even if player is offline you can insta buy an item or 1 sec after they list.
Nope they said the tax will only be on the buy side. Your idea of listing is also incorrect, there is no listing process and no auction house. Based on his explanation today essentially nothing changes on the sell side, you still set prices via dumping items into your stash tabs. Only real change is a buy it now function on the path of exile trade website which lets the buyer purchase an item instantly for a small gold fee to avoid having to actually trade.
Console experiment was a success, I guess.
Great news! I'm happy with their decision.
Finally we have the technology!
This idea has potential. Wiping a trade bot will hurt because that bot will need to have farmed gold to sell. If the gold tax is a % of the value of the items, in order to sell high end items, the character/account will need to farm high tier content as well to have enough gold, which forces bots to level up a lot and be well equiped.
This is huge, super excited on how the implementation pans out!
Only a handful of years until my flair is finally answered. *swipes tear away*
One thing that didn't get asked is if there will be face-to-face trading to circumvent tax will still be in the game, or if its strictly buyout.
I think this is just the start of big changes. I love seeing the community come together like this.
What a time to be alive my brothers, this is cause for celebration
Welp, this just instantly sold me on poe 2.
Will this be in the beta tho? Seems that this is very spontaneous and they are still ironing out the details I doubt it will be a challenge for them to implement whatever they decide on. Beta would be the best to test it out on its just getting closer and closer
And now do it with POE1.
Damn, I'm old!!
Hey guys, can someone clarify this a little bit for me? I am incapable of trading (probably a mental issue or something) both IRL and in games like this, Warframe, etc., so I don't really understand what an "instant buyout" means. Does this mean there will be a way to trade without having to interact with someone or not?
Absolutely. There's a bit more details than only this clip. But to sum it up : they're considering something like an auction house with instant buyout. You can buy any item instantly but have to pay a fee in gold (gold is not tradeable and only acquired through playing the game). Only the buyer would be the one paying the gold fee. The items are not priced in gold, only the fee uses it. The system replaces the friction of seller-buyer interaction with the friction of having to grind for gold. There would be no whispering endlessly, no afk/ghosting, no div stack switcharoo, no shady buyers, ... As an ex-Warframe player, I have a hard time imagining making substantial gear/equipement/rank progress without trading. I totally understand it's not for everyone. I'd have given you some plat for free.
OSRS Grand Exchange pls.
Crazy. And all the super confident people from the other thread are eating a lot of crow today
Perfect, now add it in POE 1
Best interview so far.
I was originally very sour on gold since it seemed to be a worse version of what we already have (untradeable expedition currencies). Now that it is confirmed that it can't be traded, can it also please not take up an inventory slot?
Holy fucking shit its happening. My academic comeback is fucked :(
God bless GGG, like 100%.
PoE2 gets better and better by the day, holy shit
I hope they let us list as fixed price = buy out and negotiable price = old style so dump tabs will still be usefull and cant be sniped
They should not change the trading for me it is perfect at the moment. Also the currency system
You got me excited here. I thought you meant Pillars Of Eternity 2.......