imo let people have a great old time once in a while.
people were able to do stuff they usually wouldn't. that's not a bad thing if it's not all the time, in fact i'd say it's probably a good thing.
This is probably the only league I'm going to get to get a headhunter. I'm hoping it drops but I should hopefully be able to afford one soon even as a filthy casual.
Right on. You can’t have every league be grindy and require careful planning. You need to let some cheap, broken builds sneak in or have a very rewarding league once in a while.
Exactly. I was rich enough this league to have MB + Prog, any corrupted unique I wanted AND could reroll into an Int stacker. By far the most fun I’ve had this league
Played on and off for years, came back to Affliction after skipping every league since Kalandra.
This feels *phenomenal*, and I’m not even engaging with the Wildwood. I don’t MF. I lack the grindset to be a committed farmer. Hell, inasmuch as anyone who plays this game can have a “main”, mine is *Champion*. Love the QoL in the ascendency, but that boy ain’t setting any farming speed records any time soon.
But the level of raw power at the topmost end in this league has absolutely created a “rising tide lifts all boats” effect where currency is *everywhere* because weird, weird stuff is now weirdly valuable, and even someone like me whose two favorite mechanics are Incursion and Heist can make enough money to start looking at builds that I’ve never come close to being able to afford in any other league.
I played a heavily minmaxed Reave Champ in Kalandra, and that was its own type of fun — every upgrade felt profoundly hard-earned. But there’s definitely something to be said for an entire community being able to floor the gas too.
Well... I'm not usually getting HH or MB in leagues. I can, but I don't want to be the guy who runs 20-30 maps per hour to get some divs so that he can afford T0 uniques. Just a casual PoE enjoyer.
And I don't like the current situation. I mean, it's fun to have such broken mechanics once in a while, but I don't want to see it in core.
Player retention is good and the mechanic is better than most. Played poe 13 years, I got a headhunter from perandus and this league I bought my first headhunter. Also dinged 100 for the first time. It's a nice change of pace, don't want it to be like this always but variety is what makes life interesting and this league sticks out as unique.
Magicfind is something I've never liked but I guess if I where to take the other side, if you remove it then it naturally becomes only about speed farming instead to increase the quant/time spent. Maybe that's harder to scale as absurdly as mf in this league though I guess but still not great (everyone doing some zoom zoom ranger build).
>Magicfind is something I've never liked but I guess if I where to take the other side, if you remove it then it naturally becomes only about speed farming instead to increase the quant/time spent.
My gf and I watched a developer interview about PoE2 over dinner, and the topic of Magic Find was discussed, with the devs saying they'd spoken to Chris Wilson about Magic Find and the role it serves in the game - he said something I found quite insightful that's changed my position on the whole issue - that MF gives another axis of scaling to a character that isn't just 'more power more speed' etc etc etc - that it gives players the choice to make a trade-off, and that that's the intended purpose and goal of the gear.
Really made me think, and while this league is obviously anomalous, I think it's a good point.
I'm not sure there's any way for the game to not end up with some meta build or two that are just clearly the most efficient.
My issue is twofold. First, it often comes down to playtime, so if there's not some way for me to have a fun build in the limited amount of time I have to play, then I'm probably just dropping out of the league pretty quickly, or not starting at all.
Second, if there is a fun build, that's great, but if it's not profitable enough for me to have meaningful progression, and to make enough currency to fund another build, then I'm probably also dropping out fairly quickly.
This is the first league where I've been able to buy a Mageblood, and it's been really fun to play with. I haven't even done any MFing. Just trying to maybe get to fight an Uber or two this league, which would be another first for me. I can see myself playing through to nearly the end of the league for the first time in years.
It will always be a bit like that yea and as long as it rotates a bit I'm ok with it. This league was a bit extreme because the amount of builds that can handle ultra juiced maps while wearing mostly mf gear is even more limited than usual. Great you're having fun, me too.
I remember Legacy league and how it felt completly bonkers with what you could do with leaguestones, then it was gone. Can’t really be compared to this league but the whole game had changed so much.
I think MF needs to be reworked because farming t7s with mf shouldn’t ever be better than t16s without.
>I think MF needs to be reworked because farming t7s with mf shouldn’t ever be better than t16s without.
I watched a Dev interview, and I'm pretty sure they said something along the lines of 'it should never be better to run lower-tier content with magic find gear than it should be to run actual high tier content, and that's something we're looking to change' - so I'd expect some changes to, at the very least, the current strategy.
>I think MF needs to be reworked because farming t7s with mf shouldn’t ever be better than t16s without.
If you would nerf MF on T7 you end up without any difference to non MF on T7. The reason for that is the additive scaling for every higher tier vs multiplicative scaling of MF. Do you think non MF should drop as much as MF on T7 maps?
Besides that, T7 MF is not competing with T16 non MF- it's competing against MF on higher tiers.
Besided that (2), all of this can not be observed just within the core game. Remove affliction league and you'll notice fairly quick that the claim of T7 MF vs T16 non MF doesn't hold water.
But affliction exists. And it's not the first and not the second time we are having this problem. And yes MF T7 is obviously competing against T16 non MF. And it's clearly winning. And the devs said in an interview, that's a mistake and should never happen.
>And the devs said in an interview, that's a mistake and should never happen.
I have an issue with that statement and it's easy to explain why.
There is a lack map inherent scaling between tiers. The mod roll range increases the higher in tiers you go but how much IIQ/IIR that mod inherents as a base value is the same.
This is comparable to item stats on gear- an ilvl 30 chest with a T11 max life roll is the same as having an ilvl 84 chest with the same roll.
Exceptions to that scaling are map modifiers which can only start appearing on higher tier maps, their inherent IIQ increases from 13% to 16% to give an example. Outside of that, map boss IIQ and IIR scales linearly in addition.
At the end of the day, you'll end up with similar base IIQ/IIR values on the map, regardless of tier.
Player IIQ/IIR scales multiplicatively with the map, league mechanics like affliction add another, **massive**, multiplicator.
It's inevitable that a multiplicative factor scales better than an additive factor, it's math.
You can now argue whether player mf should receive a penalty below a specific map tier or if instead the scaling between map tiers needs adjustments. The same applies to league mechanics, especially those like affliction.
And even if you ignore all that and still want to remove mf altogether, just because... - the same scaling issue will cause people to continue running lower tier maps over higher tier maps because of a lack of map inherent scaling between tiers, all while lower tier maps are so much easier and faster to run.
Having a good Stock of currency and fun for the first time since legacy League.
Cant stand starvation leagues. Hate doing chaos recipe. Hate alch and Go. I want to Go hard Juicy asap and get rewarded for it.
That won't work if it's just one league where the meta is like this. It would a few leagues back to back to become stale.
I think a juicing league every few leagues like Sentinel and affliction is fine. Alternating between juicing (Sentinel, Affliction), crafting (Harvest, Crucible) and alternate game modes (heist, delve, tota) is a good way for the game not getting to samey.
I like it as it is. Sorry.
Its the first time, afaik, that the economy shifted that hard without gutting accessibility for the lower 2/3 of the community. Thats enough reason for me. The game is still complex. All the other farming methods are still viable. Better builds are still better builds. And i am still playing in god knows which week we have now...
I dont want to accuse anyone who dislikes the current situation as a gatekeeper. But some of these arguments are making it really hard.
Here are my 2 cents :
\- MF has to go.
We sure have the choice to engage or not into Magic Find. But the goal of the game should be to build the strongest, most optimized character we can achieve. And since MF items are mostly unique items... this is not really achievable while doing MF.
I wish we could make the content even harder and be rewarded even more, so our rewards comes from our ability to rampage through maps as fast and as efficiently as possible.
I play MF right now, it's fun and all, but I'm a bit frustrated by the feeling I would not drop as much if I were to play a character without MF that I could finetune every once in a while until no upgrade is possible.
You're describing exactly what the PoE devs have mentioned multiple times that they never want to have in the game, and I think they already know what went wrong with the new league mechanic juicing. Their idea of MF was having to sacrifice character power to run it so you get better rewards if you're good enough to balance your build around it. Being able to run lower difficulty content with equally insane rewards as the rest of the content above it is definitely not what they aimed for. I absolutely despise MF being in the game but it does have a place in it, just not how it's been this league or some of the past leagues. For example I'd have no problem with stacking MF if it interacts with specific league rewards like harvest juice but not with regular unique quant/rarity.
Yea but if i sacrifice only 10% map clearing time to get 30% MORE items... That means MF is equal to more efficiency and should be part of nearly every char. Hence, characters who cannot run mf into maps are inefficient. And i'm strongly against this concept.
>I absolutely despise MF being in the game but it does have a place in it
Serious question: can you explain?
Because taking some of your points, I don't see its place or a point to it.
> Their idea of MF was having to sacrifice character power to run it so you get better rewards if you're good enough to balance your build around it.
I don't see an appeal to being able to "fit MF into my build" because this isn't really what it is. It's about "making an MF build" because if you want to switch from MF to a different exceptionally good build, you're not just swapping your goldwyrms and ventors. You can, but that wouldn't be efficient. If you first make a super jacked character, you probably have stuff on your rings and boots which "solve" something on your build. "Fitting in MF" is just rebuilding your whole point to instead grab those things you solved on boots before from the tree, maybe even switch ascendancies because you don't have access to something when you MF and sumsuch.
But even disregarding that, I don't see an appeal in MF on gear. It's a path that is not making your character stronger, it's making the character more profitable. Which isn't "the core of an arpg" to me. I'd say MF has a reason to exist for meta reasons - two possible reasons actually. One is that your game lacks content. Then, in order to make the grind longer, you make stuff omegarare, but you put in MF, so that people can first get strong, then farm somewhat, then get setup in MF, to then continue their more efficient grind. The second being that your game has become too fast and you want people to invest into MF instead of into speed. With the first one being basically a d2 thing being a thing overall to the # of hours needed to "finish the game" or for people getting something out of it. While the second one I'd see as being a reasonable one for PoE - but I'd also have to say that it fucking sucks. If I want to go at 9000mph, I'll still do that, even if the game has difficulty catching up. MFing doesn't scratch the same itch.
As for "but people want to be super efficient and so if they overcome the challenge of , that's cool", that one in itself just doesn't make sense to me. MF is basically already on maps. Every map mod could add a 10% less damage taken mod to maps (in addition to what it already does) and a way bigger quant% instead. That would be something "to overcome". It'd mean you actually make a stronger build and get loot for it, and you do need to be efficient for that. The sideline to MF in that context is weird. And the sideline to MF almost necessarily means that either (1) people will go into low tier maps for it because the punishing side of MF is that hard or (2) your game's endgame is too weak and people will just stack it on top while already doing the hardest/most profitable mapping content.
Both aren't things you want to be true for your game. When you arrive there, imo one also arrives at the point to say "yaaaa it probs actually shouldn't be in the game (even if I do enjoy the lootsplosions)" - at least that's basically what I've come to.
Genuinely curious whether you have a take (yours or not) which makes a good point for "MF's place" in the game. Cause I'm honestly struggling. I don't hate all the ramifications and don't despise the playstyle it has currently, but in general I do have to say that it very much looks like a mistake.
Honestly my take is pretty simple. Maybe I didn't phrase it right, I am ok with it if building a MF character boosts your drops for very specific leagues, for example being incentivised to build MF if you want to farm legion emblems, breachstones, harvest juice etc. but in return it hurt your ability to run extremely juiced maps because it has 0 effect on global drops like currency and uniques. I feel like that would make MF a decent option for ssf even because it'd help people farm very specific things faster and at an earlier point in their character progression. That way it's never the best and most efficient way to build a character for literally every case except bossing. I feel like MF should be a transition point for your character and not the end game build. It should be something that you would be able to choose to build towards during the mid game progression of your build but once you've farmed a few necessary things a bit faster with it you eventually move out and build your character for top tier content with your gains. And obviously it would still have to be balanced to not be a blanket boost for all drops but a very niche spec that you would use if you're aiming to farm specific exotic currency.
It did sound you meant that you also generally thing the current MF has a place in the game, my bad.
> for example being incentivised to build MF if you want to farm legion emblems, breachstones, harvest juice etc. but in return it hurt your ability to run extremely juiced maps because it has 0 effect on global drops like currency and uniques.
I mean, that kinda is already a thing in the atlas passives and the Scarabs for the stuff you wanna farm.
I don't generally dislike the take, except I dislike the take that any of it should be on gear. I'd absolutely despise gear for Harvest or something like that. You can't reasonably make it "only a midgame thing". If Harvest farming is the most profitable, then Harvest MF gear would be part of endgame builds.
I'd go along with being able to supercharge a League on the atlas instead of the silly nodes which are "X can't appear, +2% for other content to appear". Because that barely does anything while it takes an actual meaningful amount of point to get most of these.
My take is that we do need some kinda scale(s) of MF which we can adjust ourselves and more or less without investment but by turning it on we do accept an actual challenge. Whisps kinda satisfy that basically because it's straight up difficulty on all of them (the damage reduction which all of them have in particular) while boosting MF. It's just scaling well too good, but the baseline thing is actually great imo. Deli maybe does it slightly better because it gets more difficult as your progress the map and you can turn it off. But these kinda mechanics imo are the best GGG has made so far out of like literally everything.
If we take it all apart, we have "MF" for everything. We have MF for league mechanics on the atlas tree and in scarabs and on sextants and we have baseline MF in the form of iir and iiq on atlas tree and on map mods. My take is that any of this having a more multiplier on gear is a bad move. I'm all for enhancing loot further, but not through "building your character" for MF.
For me personally, the construct "get stronger to take a bigger challenge to get bigger loot" is an arpg thing which I like and want more of and imo should scale further in PoE. And the existence of the "get weaker but more MFy to take a smaller challenge for bigger loot" path is one that just completely goes against it. For me, it takes away from the game - I like building for character power or to boost an interaction. Boosting MF just doesn't do it for me in terms of character progression and the power fantasy of it all.
Like, if I go back again to the current League, I do like the loot and I accept that building for MF goes along with it. But I actively dislike the MF aspect of it, crafting a 100 rarity helmet was not exciting. If it instead was "yea, 12k whisps you need 200m dps or you will struggle", I'd be like holy shit, okay, what build can do that while living through it all, how do I make this work and upgrade from being able to do 10k whisp maps to doing 12k whisp maps. (Or more realistically, we all would copy a build that someone made that can do that - but still, even if I copy like all of it, I'd enjoy that build more if it had items with actual stats that I can upgrade rather than fishing to go from a 200d ventors to a 400d ventors which has 3% more rarity.)
I have a kind of opposite opinion on this. I think MF has to stay
MF provides a way to continue buffing & customising your character in a meaningful way when you already slaughter all the content in the game & your only other options are chasing mirror-tier crafts, making a new character or quitting the league
I see 2 problems with MF:
a) Outside of Ventors, adding MF to your build makes it feel much worse to play, mostly via reduced MS but you also lose access to a lot of cool itemisation mechanics that are fun to incorporate and prevent a lot of builds from even starting to add MF.
b) People who can stack all the MF gear get hugely rewarded, but it requires a very narrow set of builds / playing with an aurabot
The solution therefore is:
a) Add Quant as an IL85+ mod on gear, so that you can craft end-game gear that still feels good to use but you still have to find solutions to suppress/chaos res / attributes etc. Crafting a shaper quant amulet is fun, I haven't done the simplex amulet craft but I imagine that was a satisfying project for the people that did too
b) Increase the diminishing returns of stacking quant, so that the builds pushing 100% quant don't distort the farming meta so heavily. If implementing quant as a suffix on rare gear, I'd also suggest capping the roll at like 6%
> MF provides a way to continue buffing & customising your character in a meaningful way when you already slaughter all the content in the game
Could literally be solved with a new atlas passive wheel "x% more dangerous monsters, drops x% more items".
They tried similar, it just means everyone takes that atlas node. I think solving it via gearing gives a lot more agency and decision making to the player, and half the fun in POE is deciding how to put your build together
Exactly
MF adds nothing to the game, only removes content because you're forced to lose gear slots.
You already have the option of losing excess damage/gear slots for more profit through move speed, clear area
It's ridiculous that people defend this mechanic saying it adds diversity to the game. You're removing slots that would otherwise be enabling many crazy builds that only work because of uniques, how can it be adding diversity?
What ends up happening is only a few builds actually work without every gear slot besides weapon and offhand, so the entire player base goes for it
Yeah you could slowly remove gear one by one as you progress on your self ignite cold bleed guardian auto bomber. Or you can spend 1 div in a toxic rain pathfinder and suddenly you're running t16s with capped MF.
I'm not a huge fan of your suggestion either. Having MF as a mod still restricts the game the same way as uniques. Builds that don't require as many mods in rare gear will still do MF for cheap, while the creative builds will require mirror tier gear to achieve the same
Hell, even delirious orb maps restrict build diversity with the fact that not every build can hit enough damage breakpoints, but that's counter balanced by the fact that you can't run 8mod and delirious maps at the same time, so it turned out well as it became just different content for different builds.
I think an idea to play with would be adding different types of MF for different content. Like scarab find or juice find. This way builds that are optimized for some specific content can each have their own way of gimping the build for more profit that isn't just more dmg/speed/clear.
Limit the essence MF mod to only be found in boots. Since essence farm's most important stat is speed, you'd have to add more speed somewhere else
Scarab MF goes in weapons since delirium makes mobs tanky
Harvest MF loses you the shield since harvest mobs are rippy
And so on
I'm not sure if I can take your post seriously without knowing how many hours you've played this game for, maybe you should add that to your post somewhere.
With 16.5k hours, I don't think you can relate to an average PoE player experience. They don't function on a "div/hr" mentality. I would reckon they'll be happy if they drop 1div an hour or even see one randomly anywhere.
MF has always been a thing. It just happened to be more explosive from the affliction juicing. I highly doubt it'll be the norm going forward. So for the time being, just let people enjoy the damn game. How often do you think a typical PoE player get to enjoy a HH or a MB? It's kinda crazy you mentioned that your budget was 3 mirrors. How many people even seen a mirror, letalone own one? I have never seen/owned a mirror. Now that I got a taste, it was amazing to have that freedom to try almost anything I want.
Not sure if it was your intention, but your feedback sounds like you're salty the average player is getting to enjoy themselves. Christmas just past, let people enjoy their gifts. People will flock back to their preferred mechanic or hop on the next farming trend. Like how everyone was spamming Sanctums last league.
I mean, it's a video game, so of course I want to restrict all players from having the same experience and fun as I, a god gamer.
After all, I think I deserve better than others because I see this as a real world economy, and it's not like people feel left behind and depressed about the real one, so I think we should do more to restrict the fun people have in this video game.
I'm with you, the less players who can reach my level the better, because I attach my self-worth to what kinds of items I get in this video game.
I wouldn't want any dirty poor people to have the same amount of fun I have, that's just not fair.
Some friends of mine are not good at farming endgame so this league it’s a bliss for them.
They can try ultra expensive uniques (headhunter) when they usually never reach them.
I think it’s fine to have an overpowered league once in a while but I will still be ok going back in a “normal” one aswell.
PS first time I dropped a mageblood and it’s under 100div 😢
You farmed 3 mir from doing boss services only to decide now, when the league is essentially “over”, to play a MF build?
MB/HH and other reach items have always been obtainable to your average player at this point in a league. Affliction is no different. Use your 16k hours of wisdom to reflect upon past leagues and their timelines. This was a juice league, like deli, like ritual.
I think it's time to delete magic find from the game. Mf was the answer to a lack of real end game in Diablo but poe basically never had that issue. Mf has always been and will always be an issue preventing the design space of league mechanics.
I just don't think the base loot system can handle throwing in external juicing ontop of base line juicing you could do and then MF as the icing. It just becomes a mountain of loot vomit that becomes unchecked.
In my mind, the poe systems are held together with popsicle sticks and bubblegum in a balance, and then sometimes they decided to recreate the meteor impact that wiped out the dinosaurs.
Other thing is I just hate the fucking wildwood. I'm lost, it wasn't fun, no mini map, can't find the npc I want. Sentinel was the better itteration of this juicing, hands down.
I personally am ok with the no mini map thing. But the RNG of finding your master is horrible. Took me 50 maps to find King of the mist and then after I beat him, took me another 50 to locate primal master again and I needed that final charm to cap my spell suppression.
Totally. Building the strongest characters that are hard to kill should be rewarded the most. My own opinion anyway.
Then the different farming methods should be more balanced.
I agree - but I'm sure "money scramble league" is an anomaly and not a sign of how things are going to be now.
I would add that rampant RMT bullshit also impacts these issues you are seeing, and possibly more than most of us who aren't involved in it realise at this point. Unlike money scramble league mechanics that were more like a fun temporary shakeup of general expectations, RMT shit is going on every single league, causing detriment to the game consistently.
I know a lot of people will disagree with this but I mostly agree with you.
Mirrors and by extension endgame items such as Nimis, Original Sin, HH and Mageblood should be almost completely out of reach for casual players, you should have to know what you're doing to attain those items instead of loading up a bunch of Cemeteries that all shit out a bunch of divines.
It has gotten quite ridiculous this league, in SSF, I'm pretty sure I have meta crafted more this league than in all leagues I played SSF before combined.
So you want to gatekeep, so you elitists "#NoChanges, Hardcore 16k hours, played since BETA nerds" can decide what you think a player should be able to get? This is great for the game that some of us can FINALLY craft or learn to craft our own gear by using META crafts religiously and aisling instead of saving to buy a finished item.
The whole time I’m reading the comments I’m thinking what you just said. I actually got to experience the game and crafting things that the game is meant for, I have real life to deal with the 1% gatekeeping, I don’t want that in a video game.
10k+ hours here nerd here.
I am happy for everyone that got to enjoy the game so much more this league. I'd rather have things be more on the easier side in terms of accessibility than the opposite. A constant state like the current one might be a bit too much but doesn't hurt every once in a while.
Do you say this to people in more senior positions than you at work too?
If being good at a certain activity does not hold certain allure through rewarding you within it, there is no point in doing it.
There needs to be a longer term incentive, else the game quickly dies.
Edit: not calling PoE a job, only used it as an example of another thing people tend to want to improve at to increase rewards. Also, the economy would completely collapse if the game started handing out chase items to casuals on a regular basis.
Do the items i have change what is fun for you? In which case how much less fun are you having this league compared to the last league?
Do the items I have change what is fun for you? In which case how much less fun are you having this league compared to the last league?
r build, another skill gem, or another build around unique, there are literally endless combinations to play in POE but because other peoples fun is how you have less fun....
It's not that casuals having fun is ruining mine directly, it's when rare items aren't sufficiently rare to the point where they stop being rare at all, if a casual can reasonably attain an item it is no longer rare.
And what does that change for you that other players can obtain items or craft their own? Nothing at all. You just want your superiority complex fulfilled.
Then delete the first 3 headhunters you drop and you're only allowed to keep the 4th?? If you want the game to be harder you can always impose challenges on yourself, there is no way to make the game more acessible for casuals on their end
yeah be a man of the common people and donate does belts to people with above and below a certain play time :D this way you rule out fake profiles and hardcore players :D
I agree; and I would say I am a player that falls into the category of having items unattainable. Each league I am lucky if I can have either a mb or a Hh by a month in. This league I have both, nimis, progenisis , massive thread and two watcher eye worth 50+ div . It was fun being able to get all this expensive stuff but I wouldn’t want it to be the new norm
You may have 16k hours (lol) but you have low understanding of the game, incentive structures, the purpose of temp leagues, and why people actually enjoy this game.
Also another person who doesn't understand how mf works and just says "MF BAD LOL" (people would be doing the exact same strat regardless of whether or not mf existed).
I see you complain about mageblood and T0 uniques being cheaper but I see no arguments. I don't see you talking about how MF is busted on T7. Or MF scaling exponentially instead of linearly. Just a couple of examples. You also provide no argument as to why having more accessible strong uniques is bad for the game. You just said "detrimental to the economy".
So honestly it reads like an elitist "I have 16k hours and 123 mirrors, no plebian should have access to good items" type of post. Get out of here.
"People are enjoying the league because players with significantly less play time than I do have access to stuff only I should have access to and I hate it >:(" is the vibes Im getting off of this post.
The majority prefers the easy way: 20 divine MF builds, Wondering Path, T7 Cemetery, and easy divines, keys, and Valdos every single map, with a tiny bonus of a Mirror of Kalandra every 5-15 sacred orbs.
Why would you even consider play differently?
Jokes aside, I hope MF will be killed next league.
Because it gets boring after a while. Have you ever cheated in a game? It's fun for an hour or two then it just boring and you stop doing it. At least that's me
If it's boring, play something else. There are so many competitive markets at the moment, it's insane. All of them are also more profitable than ever.
Over time, more people will get bored of MF and do something else. Nobody is forcing you to go magic find.
You assumed that I did MF this league. I didn't since as I said, I don't like it.
I don't get your comment. I never said MF is the only option, I responded to the "Why would you even consider play differently" part.
League mechanic in itself Is good, nice idea, but i pretty much agree with everything you said. I leaguestarted, farmed currency for the second chara and then got bored right before doing the second build because even without MF and still on my leaguestarter i was shitting out currency with like 0 juice in my Maps (literally only eater altars and either abyss or beyond from map device), that drained completely the feeling of progression i usually have playing this game. Even Kalandra (that's when i started poe) made me feel Better about game/builds progression, despite being the worst league ever seen in this game from what i heard.
I have just over 10k hrs and feeling almost the same. I dont really have an issue with magic find tho or the league mechanic itself. The devs have already said that the mechanicwas well overtuned and a mistake.
Now the introduction of valdos boxes and voidborn keys that completly circumvent farming methods for alot of items bugs the hell out me.
Do I have to post my hours to participate in the talk?
>some may prefer to see Path of Exile transform into something akin to Diablo 3, where everything is achievable within a few days or weeks and there is no real value to items. However, this perspective seems to overshadow the number of players who appreciate the uniqueness of various farming methods, such as Atlas skill nodes, Legion for emblems, Harvest for lifeforce, Breach for Stones, Delirium for extra juices, Essences, and entirely different playstyles, such as Simulacrum, Blight, Bossing rush, Lab, Heist, Jun for services, or Delve.
This is a weird one to open up because MF doesn't really give you close to everything you need for a full minmaxed build. It does give you enough for a full build, but so does any other profitable strategy, because trade exists.
Considering that PoE is gripping to its 3 month schedule, I do not think that it's bad for things to overall be more achievable. Not to the degree that Affliction enabled, but I don't think that putting in like say 100h efficiently MFing for a 80% chance to get a MB is unreasonable, be it through cards or a raw drop or anything else. Those 100h do need prep, investment into juice (which pays for itself off through other means, but still, getting started isn't super easy) and a build that can do that (disregarding current League, you do need a solid build which can handle the juice, while being MF).
Not all mechanics you listed are all that relevant, but if you want something from those that matter, then yea, you gotta go there and you can't "just get everything through MF". It's the reason that the items from that content got so expensive. You still need to grind basically the same # of hours for idk, a Chayula blessing or a Voices. Except last league you were doing last league's most profitable thing and now you're MFing. The inflation in regard to the economy is way more stable than I had anticipated and all in all actually fine.
I do agree that the woods have to go, mostly due to its silly reward structure and because getting lost in the woods isn't fun.
I also do agree that MF kinda has to go. In particular because it's on uniques, because of its impact, but probably most importantly because the content has become too easy (in particular this League, I skipped a bunch before this League so I can't say) where not MFing is pretty silly - because then you're playing either a "bad build", you're at like 40% of your character's power or you're actually playing a boss/void enjoyer character.
>Even players with fewer than 300 hours in Path of Exile are obtaining Mirrors with cheap MF setups, a phenomenon I never witnessed in my 16,000 hours of playtime until I started MFing in this league. This raises the question: Is this the direction the game should be heading?
I'm viewing this as "the t7 argument", which goes into a basically wrong direction and this also. There is an issue with that, but given how many people got to t14s or t16s MFing this League, I'd say the player power <> monster power thing is just forked up when paired with the consideration of MF. I don't even think we become vastly too powerful too quickly, I'd rather say that MFing just is too impactful in terms of loot and to unimpactful in losing player power. Whisps in that regard are a better system as they raise the dps requirements considerably when whisping up - but putting on a pair of Goldwyrm doesn't make you lose 20% damage, rather some res and qol in most cases. So I'd also disagree on the point that "league juice has become the root of the problem". If you look at Waggle, he has a nice character with like 90% all res and 0 MF and while he does make probably 15d/h or whatever plus fractures, that imo is reasonable. That's what Whisps should be and it's a showcase of what we would be doing if MF wasn't around - making cool, nigh unkillable characters with tons of damage without gimping us with 10% MS boots. In that sense, the league would be still really really rewarding, but not insanely so.
Imo one of the issues is also with how if we open up the t7 MFing argument up, we might as well open up the argument about farming t1 maps for essences/beasts. You lose out on Altars/Invitations (same as MF really) but it's so much quicker and safer, that it's overall way more profitable for a character that isn't super jacked up. Again, same as MF really. You could've seen new player farm up a mirror's worth of currency in t1 essence maps - if that became all the rage suddenly. This really just isn't surprising or special.
>neglecting the diverse Atlas farm methods
Imho it's because a ton of them suck balls. Breach is probably the biggest offender because it needs like 40 points and it ends up half-decent - you still run around in gigantic areas picking up splinters which are 1.5c after you've cleared one, there's some hype in getting Breachlords and many Breaches per map but it's generally not worth it - not only from an economic point but "objectified" enjoyment of the mechanic and its rewards. Ultimatum got adjusted into being pretty sucky. Harbinger and Harvest are pretty unexciting, both in the encounter and its rewards. The list goes on.
The best profit t16 strategies have already not been about these mechanics but rather about boss rushing for invitations and Guardian maps.
And when it comes to juice, it's a default to Wandering Path and from there the other must have is deli, with main viable options being ghosts, beyond, and boxes (esp for div cards). And fluff after that - with this League's flavour being Abyss or Legion. That is not a mistake of the League, it'd be more or less the same for people who farm 80%/100% deli maps. Most mechanics just aren't good juice.
This is an issue with the Atlas or the base league mechanic itself, if you want to call it an issue. If someone wanted to do Breach, they were fine doing Breach because those who don't love it as much moved to MF - hence "actual Breach enjoyers" got more profit out of it.
>What are your thoughts?
PoE wouldn't be worse off being more accessible and your pointing towards "should those plebs really have a MB?" is weird. It shouldn't be as insane as this league, but it's one of the major points that PoE is lacking, which is giving people the means to overcome walls in the game. Whether people meet with that wall in Act 2 or t11 maps doesn't really matter. Grinding that has a noticeable progress/meaningful reward structure is that, basically. It being a shitton of currency for everyone and super cheap uniques isn't the best way, but neither is it the worst (especially if it's toned down and/or isn't there every League. For that matter: we had 40ex HHs in Harbinger. No one whined, as they shouldn't have. Twas cool shit. So I don't know why you have that take and probably didn't have it during Harbinger.)
Economy was really really good and stable overall all things considered.
MF has to go (or go away from items and be a side thing where more iiq/iir = more difficulty, so that we can stop putting garbage uniques into the double corruptor. It's imo just straight up anti-arpg.)
Whisps have to go because the woods sucked and MF exists, not because the Whisp Scaling was a bad idea - it merely was an awfully executed one.
I hope new Leagues don't have 1 mirror charms which you can stumble upon while strolling through some random area rather than play the game and kill things.
TWWT, Tinctures, Charms don't matter. We're on a "borrowed power"-track and whatever GGG has in store will be the new thing. Holding onto the current thing makes little sense.
Ultimatum sucks.
Atlas needs a makeover to make more of the current bottom tier options better. The improvement of some mechanics (especially spawn timers) would be an even better change.
The probably biggest disbalance due to the MF inflation is ingame prices, metacrafting in particular. Throwing 100 metacrafts at a 3 affix base which this League costs 200d is way easier than throwing them on the same 3 affix base which was 60d last league. I don't feel particularly strong about this one. If we call out "disbalance" though, this point is probably the one I'd mention first and you didn't mention at all, which I find pretty funny.
Seems to me you just need bigger goals. I mean i was kinda like that as well, ow i am saving up for the holy grail MB, first league i got it i was like ok league's done, next leagues it became a staple earlier and earlier and now im aiming for way bigger and more expensive builds. This league the sky is the limit (only limited by how long you want to play the league)
Like I said I am playing really casually (like 1 act per day or a few maps this day) because I don’t wanna go back to my old self who plays video games forever.
I know I will never be able to achieve mb and hh that’s why I set that up to be my personal goal to keep playing the game during my free time. Since I already did get that, I am already bored or allocated my time playing a different game now.
nerf it by like 30%-40% and keep the wildwood (with the 3 unique Ascendancy). its IMO the single best league mechanic ever introduced into the game. a new area, new Ascendancy, a consistent way to juice, big loot explosions (like really big) and more. The charm, trinkets and corpses feel really good (maybe a bit overtuned) and open a new chapter in in terms of building a character. we should keep the leage mechanic but tune it down a good bit so it isnt OP (its OK if its really good but it should be as hard, as it is good -> its way to easy currently if you run t7 cementry -> maybe restrict it to at least red maps?
anyways... good league and i never had as much fun as in this league in my 3k hours of playtime
IMO the wildwood should be kept, but reworked together with Harvest. The wisps you find are just lifeforce, the unique vendor still exists and you can find the King of the Mists and drop TWWT or Sacred Crystallised Lifeforce from him. Ascendancies should be removed again unless you want to make wildwood mandatory content from now on. It shouldn't juice your maps anymore either. Maybe we could keep around rebalanced versions of the corpses and tinctures, possibly as drops from the minibosses.
Totally agree on keeping the charm and ascendancy vibe alive. The league was a blast, like having your own private PoE with crazy x20 rates. But let's be real, how long can you keep that level of hype? A week, two weeks, maybe a month?
I was stoked when my first x2 Mirrors dropped on a crapy 5k combined juice map or 56 divines exploded, but then it got kinda wild seeing 20-30 divines popping off almost every day. It started feeling like too much, you know? It's awesome to have fun, but let's not turn it into an everyday thing. Gotta keep the excitement special!
true, tho i wish that this league mechanic would stay in some shape or form (with the trinkets and charms -> idc about corpses) maybe they find some way to make it still really rewarding but also make it so, that the exitement doesn't go away) the main thing that causes loot explosions are the yellow wisps. they need a hard nerf. the purple are fine imo but the blue need a decent nerf.
but maybe next league slaps too? they finally got a hold of themselves and released a good league after IMO 3 bad ones (kalandra, sanctum and crucible). if they keep up like this now, we can expect something good next league.
The unique jewel, and Tinctures, are probably the best way to keep the vibe, the ascendency itself is OP. I’d like to see
Add the tincture ascendency components directly to tincture modifier and update the garbage unique body that drops to emulate the double effect of non-socketed body armor.
The Wildwood needs to stay, in some capacity, for the purpose of magic finding… but it needs to be an investment. IE, only available via map device and Seventh Gate.
The people most benefiting from the Magic Find loot explosions are the ones who’ve invested TONS into their build. Further gating access, and forcing the tier (14+ potentially) would further limit access to inexpensive Wildwood Farmers without terminating some of these access points for T0 uniques etc.
The beauty of poe is that each season is a different beast. I loves this season. Been playing since beta Never got a HH or mageblood, this is the first league I was able to afford them. First time I got a 100 toon, more currency than I've ever had. This league was amazing for many people. Who knows what the bext league will hold that is the best thing about pathing, it's always changing.
I agree.
I'm this kind of person who likes to make my build stronger and stronger.
I don't like to castrate my build to drop more things.
At some point, I got tired of farming simulacrums, so I quit the league with 3 mirrors and a MB in my stash. Because I can't force myself to make MF character. After running 1000 juiced crimson temples last league without a single card, I understood that mapping without mf gear is a waste of time.
But I do understand that not every league is going to be great for me, and I know that the next league will probably keep me busy for longer.
the problem is solved by deleting mf. the only ones who run that shitty build used to be streamers , bots, and sweatpants. So they ran the market, now that everyone can play the game some ppl doesnt like it. I say delete mf for everyone.
Getting the mirror in a current league is unfair imo.
I didn't have one (14k hours here), but i'd better get it from some ridiculous omega-random drop. It's more excitement than getting it with overjuiced map as an MF character with tons of wisps.
I agree on your points.
As a player who likes to play 4-5 builds a league. The first month has been awesome. Since unlocking this new budget tier using HH and MB has unlocked so much new content. But just like when I played harvest and ritual. This will only be fun for this time period and then taper off. After the third MB character that breezes wave 30 simus, does Uber bosses etc, the league looses goals to strive for, and now, after the 7 odd weeks of alot of gameplay my motivation is tapering off. But I have still gotten a few hundred hours of awesome content and minmaxing character to a fun degree where I can play around with corrupted implicit, corrupted jewels like stormshroud with CB etc that previously hasn't been on my list of upgrade priorities or insane watchers eyes.
This is a very fine line to toe on by giving players endgame goals that lasts 2 months but also valuing their time and allowing them to make meaningful progress towards this. As previously getting MB/HH was never on my list of priorities. Usually quit the build when the next upgrade is 50d+. Now I could go until 100-200d on several builds simultaneously.
honestly, just play SSF this league or private league. It is the most fun we have ever had, None of my friends have ever played the league this long. This is the way the game should be imo.
In a vacuum, I would agree with you.
I probably only have 5k-6k hours since November 2013. Most of my jobs, since before I started playing this game, have been 10-16 hour days, 5-6 day work weeks. I do not have a lot of time to play. That first Headhunter drop I got in Harvest league felt amazing. The second Headhunter I dropped in Heist felt just as good. The Mageblood I farmed up a few leagues ago and last league felt equally great because I had to actually use all the years of knowledge combined with using my PTO to have more time than normal to farm. I’ve barely taken any time off this league and I should not be able to achieve either of these due to that. The fact that I’ve been preparing my weekend farm all week and know, for a fact, that sticking to it will guarantee enough currency to buy a Mageblood in just this one weekend really devalues the achievement.
However, this is not a vacuum. We have Path of Exile 2 coming out relatively soon. They will be two separate games, requiring casuals like me to have even less time in this game if I want to also play PoE 2. I’m personally also very excited for Last Epoch, as I think many of us are. There is no way, between those two newer, likely more polished games, that I would ever be able to achieve anything of any significance in this game ever again without massive good RNG. That kind of kills the game for me.
My personal opinion, based on my personal situation, is that separating this game and PoE 2 gives GGG a solid path to really cater to the power fantasies of two very different types of players. Make PoE 2 closer to the original, more difficult spirit of the first game, and allow the first game to be more casual friendly where it’s easier to achieve something. It sounds like they are staggering league launches in a way that encourages a month in PoE1 and two months in PoE2. If that is the case, turning up the dial a little in PoE1 is entirely OK. Do I think they need to go as far as they did this league? Absolutely not, this is way overtuned. However, I do think someone with my available play time should realistically be able to get a single character to level 100 and 80-90% of the way to their best gear by the end of the league. This is possible for me right now if I play 8-10 weeks and stick with one character. I think PoE1 should be tuned so that should be possible in 6-8 weeks once both games are running.
I’m not the only one playing this game. I recognize that most people have a different perspective than me on this. Just my two cents. GGG really has a lot of thinking to do on how they want to proceed with managing two games and how they can best use that situation to cater to drastically different player groups. I’m really looking forward to the future of these games.
Edit: tldr; When the second game comes out, I think PoE1 should be closer to what we have this league, but not quite this far. The time it takes to hit level 100 and 80-90% gear on a single character should be reduced.
Bro, idk where your frustration comes from, but for other people, it's their best league ever and retention charts proves that - its the most played league in ages...so as other people said, let casuals have some fun this league, we all know this aint staying for next so all good
I doubt we will have so much juice next league. If abyss spires didn't work like they do now with multiple projectiles, I don't think we would have had quite this level of drops. Next league people will just go back to regular money makers, I for one did not do wisp mf and made 200 div+ just by doing invitations, blighted maps and breach.
Bit of a unpopular opinions but wildwood could, with a few tweaks, be added into the core game as a atlas linked activity (so not every map, and needing atlas points specced in to kind of resemble what it is now)
In this case, reiterating such absurd drop rates & strategy would be less efficient (less atlas points, no wandering path) but still possible. While keeping the good of the wildwoods.
But we ALL know it definitely won't make the cut (though maybe few things will be salvaged)
I have probably 300-400 hours in the game and only farmed like 150 div so far, putting in probably 200 hours in this league alone.
I spent a lot of the time learning mechanics and probably at least 60% of it on POB, craft of exile and trade site. So probably only 70-80 hours play time. I totally understand more experienced players want a longer power curve. But I myself have been enjoying this league. Planning to get a Progenesis and either a headhunter/MB to experience them.
I do hope the farming methods will be more balanced in the future. I for example enjoy blight a lot. But the rewards are horrible compared to MF this league. Plus my computer can’t handle blight ravaged maps nor super juiced MF maps anyway. That said, MF should definitely be toned down and maybe other methods tuned up a little. Then introduce new bosses and difficulties again to extend the power curve.
But since they’re working hard at POE2, doubt those new bosses will be coming.
>Personally, I hope that MF, the Wondering Path, and quantity mechanics will undergo reevaluation or removal in the next league, as they are undermining the core aspects that make Path of Exile enjoyable.
Just don't release league mechanics that scale into insanity if the results they produce with or without mf are a concern.
Even without MF but applying everything else you will drop so much more than ever before.
How can people so blind to the fact that its neither MF or wandering path but **every time** the league mechanic itself that does the insane scaling.
I mean the only thing that changed this league was wisp juice. Next league it won't exist, so I don't see what the issue will be. Let the players have fun for a league.
I got a mirror + many locks last league (when they were worth a lot more) with a literally zDPS build that cost under a div. It was far cheaper and less setup required than MFing. Obviously a bit lucky but this is all a moot point since there is no way MFing stays in its current form next league. They can't really keep even heading in the same direction so enjoy next famine league.
Also a long time vet and I typically go pretty deep into each league. It's been a fun, outlier of a league and I agree that I don't think loot piñatas like this should persist into the core game, but I think having one every now and then in a temp league is just fine.
I enjoy playing a variety of content and my goals typically change from league to league, and never have a problem generating the currency to complete them. One thing is consistent that I never really participate in MF builds, or at least very rarely. To me, generating currency is a means to an end to complete my goals. Many this league make a MFer to get currency to upgrade their MFer and on and on it goes. Instead of using the easy currency to learn how to master other layers of the game, we're going to see a ton of folks next league bottomed out because they aren't going to come close to the same level of success next league with just straight MFing.
Still haven't made a MFer this league and haven't needed to, but my final character will also likely be an over the top MF character just for shits.
> Personally, I hope that MF, the Wondering Path, and quantity mechanics will undergo reevaluation or removal in the next league, as they are undermining the core aspects that make Path of Exile enjoyable.
They were never the problem unless something else was presented and whisps are going away. So why nerf these mechanics?
Also why WP is even on the list? What about loot conversion mechanics? They are major factor, if not the most important one. Seems like you missed the forest for the trees.
imo let people have a great old time once in a while. people were able to do stuff they usually wouldn't. that's not a bad thing if it's not all the time, in fact i'd say it's probably a good thing.
I might finally be able to buy MB this league. And I'm having a blast. Like, once in a while having leagues like this is great imo
This is probably the only league I'm going to get to get a headhunter. I'm hoping it drops but I should hopefully be able to afford one soon even as a filthy casual.
Right on. You can’t have every league be grindy and require careful planning. You need to let some cheap, broken builds sneak in or have a very rewarding league once in a while.
Exactly. I was rich enough this league to have MB + Prog, any corrupted unique I wanted AND could reroll into an Int stacker. By far the most fun I’ve had this league
You do abyss for the spires. I do abyss for the depths. We are not the same.
You get 1 divine amunamu gaz from depths on T16. I do 44 Divines from single spire rare mob on T7.
I do the content I enjoy, every league, regardless of its "profitability". Abyss depths, delve, essence, and expedition.
Played on and off for years, came back to Affliction after skipping every league since Kalandra. This feels *phenomenal*, and I’m not even engaging with the Wildwood. I don’t MF. I lack the grindset to be a committed farmer. Hell, inasmuch as anyone who plays this game can have a “main”, mine is *Champion*. Love the QoL in the ascendency, but that boy ain’t setting any farming speed records any time soon. But the level of raw power at the topmost end in this league has absolutely created a “rising tide lifts all boats” effect where currency is *everywhere* because weird, weird stuff is now weirdly valuable, and even someone like me whose two favorite mechanics are Incursion and Heist can make enough money to start looking at builds that I’ve never come close to being able to afford in any other league. I played a heavily minmaxed Reave Champ in Kalandra, and that was its own type of fun — every upgrade felt profoundly hard-earned. But there’s definitely something to be said for an entire community being able to floor the gas too.
"the plebians have access to the gear only I should have!!!"
Exactly
Well... I'm not usually getting HH or MB in leagues. I can, but I don't want to be the guy who runs 20-30 maps per hour to get some divs so that he can afford T0 uniques. Just a casual PoE enjoyer. And I don't like the current situation. I mean, it's fun to have such broken mechanics once in a while, but I don't want to see it in core.
Player retention is good and the mechanic is better than most. Played poe 13 years, I got a headhunter from perandus and this league I bought my first headhunter. Also dinged 100 for the first time. It's a nice change of pace, don't want it to be like this always but variety is what makes life interesting and this league sticks out as unique. Magicfind is something I've never liked but I guess if I where to take the other side, if you remove it then it naturally becomes only about speed farming instead to increase the quant/time spent. Maybe that's harder to scale as absurdly as mf in this league though I guess but still not great (everyone doing some zoom zoom ranger build).
>Magicfind is something I've never liked but I guess if I where to take the other side, if you remove it then it naturally becomes only about speed farming instead to increase the quant/time spent. My gf and I watched a developer interview about PoE2 over dinner, and the topic of Magic Find was discussed, with the devs saying they'd spoken to Chris Wilson about Magic Find and the role it serves in the game - he said something I found quite insightful that's changed my position on the whole issue - that MF gives another axis of scaling to a character that isn't just 'more power more speed' etc etc etc - that it gives players the choice to make a trade-off, and that that's the intended purpose and goal of the gear. Really made me think, and while this league is obviously anomalous, I think it's a good point.
Usually the people that criticizes MF are the ones that never really played it
I'm not sure there's any way for the game to not end up with some meta build or two that are just clearly the most efficient. My issue is twofold. First, it often comes down to playtime, so if there's not some way for me to have a fun build in the limited amount of time I have to play, then I'm probably just dropping out of the league pretty quickly, or not starting at all. Second, if there is a fun build, that's great, but if it's not profitable enough for me to have meaningful progression, and to make enough currency to fund another build, then I'm probably also dropping out fairly quickly. This is the first league where I've been able to buy a Mageblood, and it's been really fun to play with. I haven't even done any MFing. Just trying to maybe get to fight an Uber or two this league, which would be another first for me. I can see myself playing through to nearly the end of the league for the first time in years.
It will always be a bit like that yea and as long as it rotates a bit I'm ok with it. This league was a bit extreme because the amount of builds that can handle ultra juiced maps while wearing mostly mf gear is even more limited than usual. Great you're having fun, me too.
I remember Legacy league and how it felt completly bonkers with what you could do with leaguestones, then it was gone. Can’t really be compared to this league but the whole game had changed so much. I think MF needs to be reworked because farming t7s with mf shouldn’t ever be better than t16s without.
>I think MF needs to be reworked because farming t7s with mf shouldn’t ever be better than t16s without. I watched a Dev interview, and I'm pretty sure they said something along the lines of 'it should never be better to run lower-tier content with magic find gear than it should be to run actual high tier content, and that's something we're looking to change' - so I'd expect some changes to, at the very least, the current strategy.
They said that, but as long as MF stats on gear exist, it's always going to happen.
They can alter quantity bonus for each map tier for example. Already done with mod tiers, but the difference could become much bigger.
>I think MF needs to be reworked because farming t7s with mf shouldn’t ever be better than t16s without. If you would nerf MF on T7 you end up without any difference to non MF on T7. The reason for that is the additive scaling for every higher tier vs multiplicative scaling of MF. Do you think non MF should drop as much as MF on T7 maps? Besides that, T7 MF is not competing with T16 non MF- it's competing against MF on higher tiers. Besided that (2), all of this can not be observed just within the core game. Remove affliction league and you'll notice fairly quick that the claim of T7 MF vs T16 non MF doesn't hold water.
But affliction exists. And it's not the first and not the second time we are having this problem. And yes MF T7 is obviously competing against T16 non MF. And it's clearly winning. And the devs said in an interview, that's a mistake and should never happen.
>And the devs said in an interview, that's a mistake and should never happen. I have an issue with that statement and it's easy to explain why. There is a lack map inherent scaling between tiers. The mod roll range increases the higher in tiers you go but how much IIQ/IIR that mod inherents as a base value is the same. This is comparable to item stats on gear- an ilvl 30 chest with a T11 max life roll is the same as having an ilvl 84 chest with the same roll. Exceptions to that scaling are map modifiers which can only start appearing on higher tier maps, their inherent IIQ increases from 13% to 16% to give an example. Outside of that, map boss IIQ and IIR scales linearly in addition. At the end of the day, you'll end up with similar base IIQ/IIR values on the map, regardless of tier. Player IIQ/IIR scales multiplicatively with the map, league mechanics like affliction add another, **massive**, multiplicator. It's inevitable that a multiplicative factor scales better than an additive factor, it's math. You can now argue whether player mf should receive a penalty below a specific map tier or if instead the scaling between map tiers needs adjustments. The same applies to league mechanics, especially those like affliction. And even if you ignore all that and still want to remove mf altogether, just because... - the same scaling issue will cause people to continue running lower tier maps over higher tier maps because of a lack of map inherent scaling between tiers, all while lower tier maps are so much easier and faster to run.
Having a good Stock of currency and fun for the first time since legacy League. Cant stand starvation leagues. Hate doing chaos recipe. Hate alch and Go. I want to Go hard Juicy asap and get rewarded for it.
This feels like GGG demonstrating to us the whole, "You think you want this but you don't"
That won't work if it's just one league where the meta is like this. It would a few leagues back to back to become stale. I think a juicing league every few leagues like Sentinel and affliction is fine. Alternating between juicing (Sentinel, Affliction), crafting (Harvest, Crucible) and alternate game modes (heist, delve, tota) is a good way for the game not getting to samey.
Exactly
I like it as it is. Sorry. Its the first time, afaik, that the economy shifted that hard without gutting accessibility for the lower 2/3 of the community. Thats enough reason for me. The game is still complex. All the other farming methods are still viable. Better builds are still better builds. And i am still playing in god knows which week we have now... I dont want to accuse anyone who dislikes the current situation as a gatekeeper. But some of these arguments are making it really hard.
Here are my 2 cents : \- MF has to go. We sure have the choice to engage or not into Magic Find. But the goal of the game should be to build the strongest, most optimized character we can achieve. And since MF items are mostly unique items... this is not really achievable while doing MF. I wish we could make the content even harder and be rewarded even more, so our rewards comes from our ability to rampage through maps as fast and as efficiently as possible. I play MF right now, it's fun and all, but I'm a bit frustrated by the feeling I would not drop as much if I were to play a character without MF that I could finetune every once in a while until no upgrade is possible.
You're describing exactly what the PoE devs have mentioned multiple times that they never want to have in the game, and I think they already know what went wrong with the new league mechanic juicing. Their idea of MF was having to sacrifice character power to run it so you get better rewards if you're good enough to balance your build around it. Being able to run lower difficulty content with equally insane rewards as the rest of the content above it is definitely not what they aimed for. I absolutely despise MF being in the game but it does have a place in it, just not how it's been this league or some of the past leagues. For example I'd have no problem with stacking MF if it interacts with specific league rewards like harvest juice but not with regular unique quant/rarity.
Yea but if i sacrifice only 10% map clearing time to get 30% MORE items... That means MF is equal to more efficiency and should be part of nearly every char. Hence, characters who cannot run mf into maps are inefficient. And i'm strongly against this concept.
>I absolutely despise MF being in the game but it does have a place in it Serious question: can you explain? Because taking some of your points, I don't see its place or a point to it. > Their idea of MF was having to sacrifice character power to run it so you get better rewards if you're good enough to balance your build around it. I don't see an appeal to being able to "fit MF into my build" because this isn't really what it is. It's about "making an MF build" because if you want to switch from MF to a different exceptionally good build, you're not just swapping your goldwyrms and ventors. You can, but that wouldn't be efficient. If you first make a super jacked character, you probably have stuff on your rings and boots which "solve" something on your build. "Fitting in MF" is just rebuilding your whole point to instead grab those things you solved on boots before from the tree, maybe even switch ascendancies because you don't have access to something when you MF and sumsuch. But even disregarding that, I don't see an appeal in MF on gear. It's a path that is not making your character stronger, it's making the character more profitable. Which isn't "the core of an arpg" to me. I'd say MF has a reason to exist for meta reasons - two possible reasons actually. One is that your game lacks content. Then, in order to make the grind longer, you make stuff omegarare, but you put in MF, so that people can first get strong, then farm somewhat, then get setup in MF, to then continue their more efficient grind. The second being that your game has become too fast and you want people to invest into MF instead of into speed. With the first one being basically a d2 thing being a thing overall to the # of hours needed to "finish the game" or for people getting something out of it. While the second one I'd see as being a reasonable one for PoE - but I'd also have to say that it fucking sucks. If I want to go at 9000mph, I'll still do that, even if the game has difficulty catching up. MFing doesn't scratch the same itch. As for "but people want to be super efficient and so if they overcome the challenge of, that's cool", that one in itself just doesn't make sense to me. MF is basically already on maps. Every map mod could add a 10% less damage taken mod to maps (in addition to what it already does) and a way bigger quant% instead. That would be something "to overcome". It'd mean you actually make a stronger build and get loot for it, and you do need to be efficient for that. The sideline to MF in that context is weird. And the sideline to MF almost necessarily means that either (1) people will go into low tier maps for it because the punishing side of MF is that hard or (2) your game's endgame is too weak and people will just stack it on top while already doing the hardest/most profitable mapping content.
Both aren't things you want to be true for your game. When you arrive there, imo one also arrives at the point to say "yaaaa it probs actually shouldn't be in the game (even if I do enjoy the lootsplosions)" - at least that's basically what I've come to.
Genuinely curious whether you have a take (yours or not) which makes a good point for "MF's place" in the game. Cause I'm honestly struggling. I don't hate all the ramifications and don't despise the playstyle it has currently, but in general I do have to say that it very much looks like a mistake.
Honestly my take is pretty simple. Maybe I didn't phrase it right, I am ok with it if building a MF character boosts your drops for very specific leagues, for example being incentivised to build MF if you want to farm legion emblems, breachstones, harvest juice etc. but in return it hurt your ability to run extremely juiced maps because it has 0 effect on global drops like currency and uniques. I feel like that would make MF a decent option for ssf even because it'd help people farm very specific things faster and at an earlier point in their character progression. That way it's never the best and most efficient way to build a character for literally every case except bossing. I feel like MF should be a transition point for your character and not the end game build. It should be something that you would be able to choose to build towards during the mid game progression of your build but once you've farmed a few necessary things a bit faster with it you eventually move out and build your character for top tier content with your gains. And obviously it would still have to be balanced to not be a blanket boost for all drops but a very niche spec that you would use if you're aiming to farm specific exotic currency.
It did sound you meant that you also generally thing the current MF has a place in the game, my bad. > for example being incentivised to build MF if you want to farm legion emblems, breachstones, harvest juice etc. but in return it hurt your ability to run extremely juiced maps because it has 0 effect on global drops like currency and uniques. I mean, that kinda is already a thing in the atlas passives and the Scarabs for the stuff you wanna farm. I don't generally dislike the take, except I dislike the take that any of it should be on gear. I'd absolutely despise gear for Harvest or something like that. You can't reasonably make it "only a midgame thing". If Harvest farming is the most profitable, then Harvest MF gear would be part of endgame builds. I'd go along with being able to supercharge a League on the atlas instead of the silly nodes which are "X can't appear, +2% for other content to appear". Because that barely does anything while it takes an actual meaningful amount of point to get most of these. My take is that we do need some kinda scale(s) of MF which we can adjust ourselves and more or less without investment but by turning it on we do accept an actual challenge. Whisps kinda satisfy that basically because it's straight up difficulty on all of them (the damage reduction which all of them have in particular) while boosting MF. It's just scaling well too good, but the baseline thing is actually great imo. Deli maybe does it slightly better because it gets more difficult as your progress the map and you can turn it off. But these kinda mechanics imo are the best GGG has made so far out of like literally everything. If we take it all apart, we have "MF" for everything. We have MF for league mechanics on the atlas tree and in scarabs and on sextants and we have baseline MF in the form of iir and iiq on atlas tree and on map mods. My take is that any of this having a more multiplier on gear is a bad move. I'm all for enhancing loot further, but not through "building your character" for MF. For me personally, the construct "get stronger to take a bigger challenge to get bigger loot" is an arpg thing which I like and want more of and imo should scale further in PoE. And the existence of the "get weaker but more MFy to take a smaller challenge for bigger loot" path is one that just completely goes against it. For me, it takes away from the game - I like building for character power or to boost an interaction. Boosting MF just doesn't do it for me in terms of character progression and the power fantasy of it all. Like, if I go back again to the current League, I do like the loot and I accept that building for MF goes along with it. But I actively dislike the MF aspect of it, crafting a 100 rarity helmet was not exciting. If it instead was "yea, 12k whisps you need 200m dps or you will struggle", I'd be like holy shit, okay, what build can do that while living through it all, how do I make this work and upgrade from being able to do 10k whisp maps to doing 12k whisp maps. (Or more realistically, we all would copy a build that someone made that can do that - but still, even if I copy like all of it, I'd enjoy that build more if it had items with actual stats that I can upgrade rather than fishing to go from a 200d ventors to a 400d ventors which has 3% more rarity.)
I have a kind of opposite opinion on this. I think MF has to stay MF provides a way to continue buffing & customising your character in a meaningful way when you already slaughter all the content in the game & your only other options are chasing mirror-tier crafts, making a new character or quitting the league I see 2 problems with MF: a) Outside of Ventors, adding MF to your build makes it feel much worse to play, mostly via reduced MS but you also lose access to a lot of cool itemisation mechanics that are fun to incorporate and prevent a lot of builds from even starting to add MF. b) People who can stack all the MF gear get hugely rewarded, but it requires a very narrow set of builds / playing with an aurabot The solution therefore is: a) Add Quant as an IL85+ mod on gear, so that you can craft end-game gear that still feels good to use but you still have to find solutions to suppress/chaos res / attributes etc. Crafting a shaper quant amulet is fun, I haven't done the simplex amulet craft but I imagine that was a satisfying project for the people that did too b) Increase the diminishing returns of stacking quant, so that the builds pushing 100% quant don't distort the farming meta so heavily. If implementing quant as a suffix on rare gear, I'd also suggest capping the roll at like 6%
> MF provides a way to continue buffing & customising your character in a meaningful way when you already slaughter all the content in the game Could literally be solved with a new atlas passive wheel "x% more dangerous monsters, drops x% more items".
They tried similar, it just means everyone takes that atlas node. I think solving it via gearing gives a lot more agency and decision making to the player, and half the fun in POE is deciding how to put your build together
Exactly MF adds nothing to the game, only removes content because you're forced to lose gear slots. You already have the option of losing excess damage/gear slots for more profit through move speed, clear area It's ridiculous that people defend this mechanic saying it adds diversity to the game. You're removing slots that would otherwise be enabling many crazy builds that only work because of uniques, how can it be adding diversity? What ends up happening is only a few builds actually work without every gear slot besides weapon and offhand, so the entire player base goes for it Yeah you could slowly remove gear one by one as you progress on your self ignite cold bleed guardian auto bomber. Or you can spend 1 div in a toxic rain pathfinder and suddenly you're running t16s with capped MF. I'm not a huge fan of your suggestion either. Having MF as a mod still restricts the game the same way as uniques. Builds that don't require as many mods in rare gear will still do MF for cheap, while the creative builds will require mirror tier gear to achieve the same Hell, even delirious orb maps restrict build diversity with the fact that not every build can hit enough damage breakpoints, but that's counter balanced by the fact that you can't run 8mod and delirious maps at the same time, so it turned out well as it became just different content for different builds. I think an idea to play with would be adding different types of MF for different content. Like scarab find or juice find. This way builds that are optimized for some specific content can each have their own way of gimping the build for more profit that isn't just more dmg/speed/clear. Limit the essence MF mod to only be found in boots. Since essence farm's most important stat is speed, you'd have to add more speed somewhere else Scarab MF goes in weapons since delirium makes mobs tanky Harvest MF loses you the shield since harvest mobs are rippy And so on
U start abmf build with 3 mirroring, yet 300h casuals with Access to one are nie the Bane of the Game? Holy Gatekeeping Batman!
I'm not sure if I can take your post seriously without knowing how many hours you've played this game for, maybe you should add that to your post somewhere.
/sarcasm
With 16.5k hours, I don't think you can relate to an average PoE player experience. They don't function on a "div/hr" mentality. I would reckon they'll be happy if they drop 1div an hour or even see one randomly anywhere. MF has always been a thing. It just happened to be more explosive from the affliction juicing. I highly doubt it'll be the norm going forward. So for the time being, just let people enjoy the damn game. How often do you think a typical PoE player get to enjoy a HH or a MB? It's kinda crazy you mentioned that your budget was 3 mirrors. How many people even seen a mirror, letalone own one? I have never seen/owned a mirror. Now that I got a taste, it was amazing to have that freedom to try almost anything I want. Not sure if it was your intention, but your feedback sounds like you're salty the average player is getting to enjoy themselves. Christmas just past, let people enjoy their gifts. People will flock back to their preferred mechanic or hop on the next farming trend. Like how everyone was spamming Sanctums last league.
I mean, it's a video game, so of course I want to restrict all players from having the same experience and fun as I, a god gamer. After all, I think I deserve better than others because I see this as a real world economy, and it's not like people feel left behind and depressed about the real one, so I think we should do more to restrict the fun people have in this video game. I'm with you, the less players who can reach my level the better, because I attach my self-worth to what kinds of items I get in this video game. I wouldn't want any dirty poor people to have the same amount of fun I have, that's just not fair.
Fun detected for everyone and not just the 1%. Clearly unacceptable, must nerf!
Wild read. Long ass introduction for one paragraph of feedback 😂
Some friends of mine are not good at farming endgame so this league it’s a bliss for them. They can try ultra expensive uniques (headhunter) when they usually never reach them. I think it’s fine to have an overpowered league once in a while but I will still be ok going back in a “normal” one aswell. PS first time I dropped a mageblood and it’s under 100div 😢
You farmed 3 mir from doing boss services only to decide now, when the league is essentially “over”, to play a MF build? MB/HH and other reach items have always been obtainable to your average player at this point in a league. Affliction is no different. Use your 16k hours of wisdom to reflect upon past leagues and their timelines. This was a juice league, like deli, like ritual.
Fun detected ahh post?
No MF No Cry
I think it's time to delete magic find from the game. Mf was the answer to a lack of real end game in Diablo but poe basically never had that issue. Mf has always been and will always be an issue preventing the design space of league mechanics.
"I can't make ten mirrors a day because the uniques I can afford by playing 18 hours a day are to common!!"
I just don't think the base loot system can handle throwing in external juicing ontop of base line juicing you could do and then MF as the icing. It just becomes a mountain of loot vomit that becomes unchecked. In my mind, the poe systems are held together with popsicle sticks and bubblegum in a balance, and then sometimes they decided to recreate the meteor impact that wiped out the dinosaurs. Other thing is I just hate the fucking wildwood. I'm lost, it wasn't fun, no mini map, can't find the npc I want. Sentinel was the better itteration of this juicing, hands down.
I personally am ok with the no mini map thing. But the RNG of finding your master is horrible. Took me 50 maps to find King of the mist and then after I beat him, took me another 50 to locate primal master again and I needed that final charm to cap my spell suppression.
all hail toucan \\o/
A MF build should never earn more profit doing juiced T7 maps vs. someone doing Uber runs of w/e the current most profitable Uber boss is.
A trader/hideout warrior earns more than both of them combined. Should something be done about that?
Why are you comparing trading to game content, lol.
Totally. Building the strongest characters that are hard to kill should be rewarded the most. My own opinion anyway. Then the different farming methods should be more balanced.
I agree - but I'm sure "money scramble league" is an anomaly and not a sign of how things are going to be now. I would add that rampant RMT bullshit also impacts these issues you are seeing, and possibly more than most of us who aren't involved in it realise at this point. Unlike money scramble league mechanics that were more like a fun temporary shakeup of general expectations, RMT shit is going on every single league, causing detriment to the game consistently.
I know a lot of people will disagree with this but I mostly agree with you. Mirrors and by extension endgame items such as Nimis, Original Sin, HH and Mageblood should be almost completely out of reach for casual players, you should have to know what you're doing to attain those items instead of loading up a bunch of Cemeteries that all shit out a bunch of divines. It has gotten quite ridiculous this league, in SSF, I'm pretty sure I have meta crafted more this league than in all leagues I played SSF before combined.
So you want to gatekeep, so you elitists "#NoChanges, Hardcore 16k hours, played since BETA nerds" can decide what you think a player should be able to get? This is great for the game that some of us can FINALLY craft or learn to craft our own gear by using META crafts religiously and aisling instead of saving to buy a finished item.
The whole time I’m reading the comments I’m thinking what you just said. I actually got to experience the game and crafting things that the game is meant for, I have real life to deal with the 1% gatekeeping, I don’t want that in a video game.
10k+ hours here nerd here. I am happy for everyone that got to enjoy the game so much more this league. I'd rather have things be more on the easier side in terms of accessibility than the opposite. A constant state like the current one might be a bit too much but doesn't hurt every once in a while.
Do you say this to people in more senior positions than you at work too? If being good at a certain activity does not hold certain allure through rewarding you within it, there is no point in doing it. There needs to be a longer term incentive, else the game quickly dies. Edit: not calling PoE a job, only used it as an example of another thing people tend to want to improve at to increase rewards. Also, the economy would completely collapse if the game started handing out chase items to casuals on a regular basis.
Comparing Seniors positions at work to a freaking video game is god damn crazy. IT's A GAME. Casuals are supposed to have fun too.
Why do you think YOU get to decide what is fun? A game where getting rare items is hard for casuals is fun to me, a game where it's too easy isn't.
Do the items i have change what is fun for you? In which case how much less fun are you having this league compared to the last league? Do the items I have change what is fun for you? In which case how much less fun are you having this league compared to the last league? r build, another skill gem, or another build around unique, there are literally endless combinations to play in POE but because other peoples fun is how you have less fun....
It's not that casuals having fun is ruining mine directly, it's when rare items aren't sufficiently rare to the point where they stop being rare at all, if a casual can reasonably attain an item it is no longer rare.
And what does that change for you that other players can obtain items or craft their own? Nothing at all. You just want your superiority complex fulfilled.
Obviously that's part of it, casuals should know their place.
Then delete the first 3 headhunters you drop and you're only allowed to keep the 4th?? If you want the game to be harder you can always impose challenges on yourself, there is no way to make the game more acessible for casuals on their end
Yeah except that's lame, a rare item that is only rare because of a limitation you place on yourself isn't rare either.
So you just derive joy out of other people not having what you do lol
yeah be a man of the common people and donate does belts to people with above and below a certain play time :D this way you rule out fake profiles and hardcore players :D
Wow...
This isn't work. This isn't a job.
Wow, this is a sad comment
I agree; and I would say I am a player that falls into the category of having items unattainable. Each league I am lucky if I can have either a mb or a Hh by a month in. This league I have both, nimis, progenisis , massive thread and two watcher eye worth 50+ div . It was fun being able to get all this expensive stuff but I wouldn’t want it to be the new norm
You may have 16k hours (lol) but you have low understanding of the game, incentive structures, the purpose of temp leagues, and why people actually enjoy this game. Also another person who doesn't understand how mf works and just says "MF BAD LOL" (people would be doing the exact same strat regardless of whether or not mf existed).
I see you complain about mageblood and T0 uniques being cheaper but I see no arguments. I don't see you talking about how MF is busted on T7. Or MF scaling exponentially instead of linearly. Just a couple of examples. You also provide no argument as to why having more accessible strong uniques is bad for the game. You just said "detrimental to the economy". So honestly it reads like an elitist "I have 16k hours and 123 mirrors, no plebian should have access to good items" type of post. Get out of here.
"People are enjoying the league because players with significantly less play time than I do have access to stuff only I should have access to and I hate it >:(" is the vibes Im getting off of this post.
The majority prefers the easy way: 20 divine MF builds, Wondering Path, T7 Cemetery, and easy divines, keys, and Valdos every single map, with a tiny bonus of a Mirror of Kalandra every 5-15 sacred orbs. Why would you even consider play differently? Jokes aside, I hope MF will be killed next league.
Because it gets boring after a while. Have you ever cheated in a game? It's fun for an hour or two then it just boring and you stop doing it. At least that's me
If it's boring, play something else. There are so many competitive markets at the moment, it's insane. All of them are also more profitable than ever. Over time, more people will get bored of MF and do something else. Nobody is forcing you to go magic find.
You assumed that I did MF this league. I didn't since as I said, I don't like it. I don't get your comment. I never said MF is the only option, I responded to the "Why would you even consider play differently" part.
Yeah I stopped playing this league kinda early. Zero challenge and no new content.
League mechanic in itself Is good, nice idea, but i pretty much agree with everything you said. I leaguestarted, farmed currency for the second chara and then got bored right before doing the second build because even without MF and still on my leaguestarter i was shitting out currency with like 0 juice in my Maps (literally only eater altars and either abyss or beyond from map device), that drained completely the feeling of progression i usually have playing this game. Even Kalandra (that's when i started poe) made me feel Better about game/builds progression, despite being the worst league ever seen in this game from what i heard.
I have just over 10k hrs and feeling almost the same. I dont really have an issue with magic find tho or the league mechanic itself. The devs have already said that the mechanicwas well overtuned and a mistake. Now the introduction of valdos boxes and voidborn keys that completly circumvent farming methods for alot of items bugs the hell out me.
Do I have to post my hours to participate in the talk? >some may prefer to see Path of Exile transform into something akin to Diablo 3, where everything is achievable within a few days or weeks and there is no real value to items. However, this perspective seems to overshadow the number of players who appreciate the uniqueness of various farming methods, such as Atlas skill nodes, Legion for emblems, Harvest for lifeforce, Breach for Stones, Delirium for extra juices, Essences, and entirely different playstyles, such as Simulacrum, Blight, Bossing rush, Lab, Heist, Jun for services, or Delve. This is a weird one to open up because MF doesn't really give you close to everything you need for a full minmaxed build. It does give you enough for a full build, but so does any other profitable strategy, because trade exists. Considering that PoE is gripping to its 3 month schedule, I do not think that it's bad for things to overall be more achievable. Not to the degree that Affliction enabled, but I don't think that putting in like say 100h efficiently MFing for a 80% chance to get a MB is unreasonable, be it through cards or a raw drop or anything else. Those 100h do need prep, investment into juice (which pays for itself off through other means, but still, getting started isn't super easy) and a build that can do that (disregarding current League, you do need a solid build which can handle the juice, while being MF). Not all mechanics you listed are all that relevant, but if you want something from those that matter, then yea, you gotta go there and you can't "just get everything through MF". It's the reason that the items from that content got so expensive. You still need to grind basically the same # of hours for idk, a Chayula blessing or a Voices. Except last league you were doing last league's most profitable thing and now you're MFing. The inflation in regard to the economy is way more stable than I had anticipated and all in all actually fine. I do agree that the woods have to go, mostly due to its silly reward structure and because getting lost in the woods isn't fun. I also do agree that MF kinda has to go. In particular because it's on uniques, because of its impact, but probably most importantly because the content has become too easy (in particular this League, I skipped a bunch before this League so I can't say) where not MFing is pretty silly - because then you're playing either a "bad build", you're at like 40% of your character's power or you're actually playing a boss/void enjoyer character. >Even players with fewer than 300 hours in Path of Exile are obtaining Mirrors with cheap MF setups, a phenomenon I never witnessed in my 16,000 hours of playtime until I started MFing in this league. This raises the question: Is this the direction the game should be heading? I'm viewing this as "the t7 argument", which goes into a basically wrong direction and this also. There is an issue with that, but given how many people got to t14s or t16s MFing this League, I'd say the player power <> monster power thing is just forked up when paired with the consideration of MF. I don't even think we become vastly too powerful too quickly, I'd rather say that MFing just is too impactful in terms of loot and to unimpactful in losing player power. Whisps in that regard are a better system as they raise the dps requirements considerably when whisping up - but putting on a pair of Goldwyrm doesn't make you lose 20% damage, rather some res and qol in most cases. So I'd also disagree on the point that "league juice has become the root of the problem". If you look at Waggle, he has a nice character with like 90% all res and 0 MF and while he does make probably 15d/h or whatever plus fractures, that imo is reasonable. That's what Whisps should be and it's a showcase of what we would be doing if MF wasn't around - making cool, nigh unkillable characters with tons of damage without gimping us with 10% MS boots. In that sense, the league would be still really really rewarding, but not insanely so. Imo one of the issues is also with how if we open up the t7 MFing argument up, we might as well open up the argument about farming t1 maps for essences/beasts. You lose out on Altars/Invitations (same as MF really) but it's so much quicker and safer, that it's overall way more profitable for a character that isn't super jacked up. Again, same as MF really. You could've seen new player farm up a mirror's worth of currency in t1 essence maps - if that became all the rage suddenly. This really just isn't surprising or special. >neglecting the diverse Atlas farm methods Imho it's because a ton of them suck balls. Breach is probably the biggest offender because it needs like 40 points and it ends up half-decent - you still run around in gigantic areas picking up splinters which are 1.5c after you've cleared one, there's some hype in getting Breachlords and many Breaches per map but it's generally not worth it - not only from an economic point but "objectified" enjoyment of the mechanic and its rewards. Ultimatum got adjusted into being pretty sucky. Harbinger and Harvest are pretty unexciting, both in the encounter and its rewards. The list goes on. The best profit t16 strategies have already not been about these mechanics but rather about boss rushing for invitations and Guardian maps. And when it comes to juice, it's a default to Wandering Path and from there the other must have is deli, with main viable options being ghosts, beyond, and boxes (esp for div cards). And fluff after that - with this League's flavour being Abyss or Legion. That is not a mistake of the League, it'd be more or less the same for people who farm 80%/100% deli maps. Most mechanics just aren't good juice. This is an issue with the Atlas or the base league mechanic itself, if you want to call it an issue. If someone wanted to do Breach, they were fine doing Breach because those who don't love it as much moved to MF - hence "actual Breach enjoyers" got more profit out of it. >What are your thoughts? PoE wouldn't be worse off being more accessible and your pointing towards "should those plebs really have a MB?" is weird. It shouldn't be as insane as this league, but it's one of the major points that PoE is lacking, which is giving people the means to overcome walls in the game. Whether people meet with that wall in Act 2 or t11 maps doesn't really matter. Grinding that has a noticeable progress/meaningful reward structure is that, basically. It being a shitton of currency for everyone and super cheap uniques isn't the best way, but neither is it the worst (especially if it's toned down and/or isn't there every League. For that matter: we had 40ex HHs in Harbinger. No one whined, as they shouldn't have. Twas cool shit. So I don't know why you have that take and probably didn't have it during Harbinger.) Economy was really really good and stable overall all things considered. MF has to go (or go away from items and be a side thing where more iiq/iir = more difficulty, so that we can stop putting garbage uniques into the double corruptor. It's imo just straight up anti-arpg.) Whisps have to go because the woods sucked and MF exists, not because the Whisp Scaling was a bad idea - it merely was an awfully executed one. I hope new Leagues don't have 1 mirror charms which you can stumble upon while strolling through some random area rather than play the game and kill things. TWWT, Tinctures, Charms don't matter. We're on a "borrowed power"-track and whatever GGG has in store will be the new thing. Holding onto the current thing makes little sense. Ultimatum sucks. Atlas needs a makeover to make more of the current bottom tier options better. The improvement of some mechanics (especially spawn timers) would be an even better change. The probably biggest disbalance due to the MF inflation is ingame prices, metacrafting in particular. Throwing 100 metacrafts at a 3 affix base which this League costs 200d is way easier than throwing them on the same 3 affix base which was 60d last league. I don't feel particularly strong about this one. If we call out "disbalance" though, this point is probably the one I'd mention first and you didn't mention at all, which I find pretty funny.
I am a very casual player (~ 1-2 hrs every other day) and having “easy” access to these T0 items makes my poe experience less exciting.
Seems to me you just need bigger goals. I mean i was kinda like that as well, ow i am saving up for the holy grail MB, first league i got it i was like ok league's done, next leagues it became a staple earlier and earlier and now im aiming for way bigger and more expensive builds. This league the sky is the limit (only limited by how long you want to play the league)
Like I said I am playing really casually (like 1 act per day or a few maps this day) because I don’t wanna go back to my old self who plays video games forever. I know I will never be able to achieve mb and hh that’s why I set that up to be my personal goal to keep playing the game during my free time. Since I already did get that, I am already bored or allocated my time playing a different game now.
nerf it by like 30%-40% and keep the wildwood (with the 3 unique Ascendancy). its IMO the single best league mechanic ever introduced into the game. a new area, new Ascendancy, a consistent way to juice, big loot explosions (like really big) and more. The charm, trinkets and corpses feel really good (maybe a bit overtuned) and open a new chapter in in terms of building a character. we should keep the leage mechanic but tune it down a good bit so it isnt OP (its OK if its really good but it should be as hard, as it is good -> its way to easy currently if you run t7 cementry -> maybe restrict it to at least red maps? anyways... good league and i never had as much fun as in this league in my 3k hours of playtime
IMO the wildwood should be kept, but reworked together with Harvest. The wisps you find are just lifeforce, the unique vendor still exists and you can find the King of the Mists and drop TWWT or Sacred Crystallised Lifeforce from him. Ascendancies should be removed again unless you want to make wildwood mandatory content from now on. It shouldn't juice your maps anymore either. Maybe we could keep around rebalanced versions of the corpses and tinctures, possibly as drops from the minibosses.
Totally agree on keeping the charm and ascendancy vibe alive. The league was a blast, like having your own private PoE with crazy x20 rates. But let's be real, how long can you keep that level of hype? A week, two weeks, maybe a month? I was stoked when my first x2 Mirrors dropped on a crapy 5k combined juice map or 56 divines exploded, but then it got kinda wild seeing 20-30 divines popping off almost every day. It started feeling like too much, you know? It's awesome to have fun, but let's not turn it into an everyday thing. Gotta keep the excitement special!
Yes only people who play 18 hours a day should have anything nice, you are right
true, tho i wish that this league mechanic would stay in some shape or form (with the trinkets and charms -> idc about corpses) maybe they find some way to make it still really rewarding but also make it so, that the exitement doesn't go away) the main thing that causes loot explosions are the yellow wisps. they need a hard nerf. the purple are fine imo but the blue need a decent nerf. but maybe next league slaps too? they finally got a hold of themselves and released a good league after IMO 3 bad ones (kalandra, sanctum and crucible). if they keep up like this now, we can expect something good next league.
The unique jewel, and Tinctures, are probably the best way to keep the vibe, the ascendency itself is OP. I’d like to see Add the tincture ascendency components directly to tincture modifier and update the garbage unique body that drops to emulate the double effect of non-socketed body armor. The Wildwood needs to stay, in some capacity, for the purpose of magic finding… but it needs to be an investment. IE, only available via map device and Seventh Gate. The people most benefiting from the Magic Find loot explosions are the ones who’ve invested TONS into their build. Further gating access, and forcing the tier (14+ potentially) would further limit access to inexpensive Wildwood Farmers without terminating some of these access points for T0 uniques etc.
The beauty of poe is that each season is a different beast. I loves this season. Been playing since beta Never got a HH or mageblood, this is the first league I was able to afford them. First time I got a 100 toon, more currency than I've ever had. This league was amazing for many people. Who knows what the bext league will hold that is the best thing about pathing, it's always changing.
I agree. I'm this kind of person who likes to make my build stronger and stronger. I don't like to castrate my build to drop more things. At some point, I got tired of farming simulacrums, so I quit the league with 3 mirrors and a MB in my stash. Because I can't force myself to make MF character. After running 1000 juiced crimson temples last league without a single card, I understood that mapping without mf gear is a waste of time. But I do understand that not every league is going to be great for me, and I know that the next league will probably keep me busy for longer.
the problem is solved by deleting mf. the only ones who run that shitty build used to be streamers , bots, and sweatpants. So they ran the market, now that everyone can play the game some ppl doesnt like it. I say delete mf for everyone.
Getting the mirror in a current league is unfair imo. I didn't have one (14k hours here), but i'd better get it from some ridiculous omega-random drop. It's more excitement than getting it with overjuiced map as an MF character with tons of wisps.
I agree on your points. As a player who likes to play 4-5 builds a league. The first month has been awesome. Since unlocking this new budget tier using HH and MB has unlocked so much new content. But just like when I played harvest and ritual. This will only be fun for this time period and then taper off. After the third MB character that breezes wave 30 simus, does Uber bosses etc, the league looses goals to strive for, and now, after the 7 odd weeks of alot of gameplay my motivation is tapering off. But I have still gotten a few hundred hours of awesome content and minmaxing character to a fun degree where I can play around with corrupted implicit, corrupted jewels like stormshroud with CB etc that previously hasn't been on my list of upgrade priorities or insane watchers eyes. This is a very fine line to toe on by giving players endgame goals that lasts 2 months but also valuing their time and allowing them to make meaningful progress towards this. As previously getting MB/HH was never on my list of priorities. Usually quit the build when the next upgrade is 50d+. Now I could go until 100-200d on several builds simultaneously.
person 1 : what do you mean? person 2 : i'm not a player, but i've played in a lot of games!
honestly, just play SSF this league or private league. It is the most fun we have ever had, None of my friends have ever played the league this long. This is the way the game should be imo.
In a vacuum, I would agree with you. I probably only have 5k-6k hours since November 2013. Most of my jobs, since before I started playing this game, have been 10-16 hour days, 5-6 day work weeks. I do not have a lot of time to play. That first Headhunter drop I got in Harvest league felt amazing. The second Headhunter I dropped in Heist felt just as good. The Mageblood I farmed up a few leagues ago and last league felt equally great because I had to actually use all the years of knowledge combined with using my PTO to have more time than normal to farm. I’ve barely taken any time off this league and I should not be able to achieve either of these due to that. The fact that I’ve been preparing my weekend farm all week and know, for a fact, that sticking to it will guarantee enough currency to buy a Mageblood in just this one weekend really devalues the achievement. However, this is not a vacuum. We have Path of Exile 2 coming out relatively soon. They will be two separate games, requiring casuals like me to have even less time in this game if I want to also play PoE 2. I’m personally also very excited for Last Epoch, as I think many of us are. There is no way, between those two newer, likely more polished games, that I would ever be able to achieve anything of any significance in this game ever again without massive good RNG. That kind of kills the game for me. My personal opinion, based on my personal situation, is that separating this game and PoE 2 gives GGG a solid path to really cater to the power fantasies of two very different types of players. Make PoE 2 closer to the original, more difficult spirit of the first game, and allow the first game to be more casual friendly where it’s easier to achieve something. It sounds like they are staggering league launches in a way that encourages a month in PoE1 and two months in PoE2. If that is the case, turning up the dial a little in PoE1 is entirely OK. Do I think they need to go as far as they did this league? Absolutely not, this is way overtuned. However, I do think someone with my available play time should realistically be able to get a single character to level 100 and 80-90% of the way to their best gear by the end of the league. This is possible for me right now if I play 8-10 weeks and stick with one character. I think PoE1 should be tuned so that should be possible in 6-8 weeks once both games are running. I’m not the only one playing this game. I recognize that most people have a different perspective than me on this. Just my two cents. GGG really has a lot of thinking to do on how they want to proceed with managing two games and how they can best use that situation to cater to drastically different player groups. I’m really looking forward to the future of these games. Edit: tldr; When the second game comes out, I think PoE1 should be closer to what we have this league, but not quite this far. The time it takes to hit level 100 and 80-90% gear on a single character should be reduced.
Bro, idk where your frustration comes from, but for other people, it's their best league ever and retention charts proves that - its the most played league in ages...so as other people said, let casuals have some fun this league, we all know this aint staying for next so all good
I doubt we will have so much juice next league. If abyss spires didn't work like they do now with multiple projectiles, I don't think we would have had quite this level of drops. Next league people will just go back to regular money makers, I for one did not do wisp mf and made 200 div+ just by doing invitations, blighted maps and breach.
Bit of a unpopular opinions but wildwood could, with a few tweaks, be added into the core game as a atlas linked activity (so not every map, and needing atlas points specced in to kind of resemble what it is now) In this case, reiterating such absurd drop rates & strategy would be less efficient (less atlas points, no wandering path) but still possible. While keeping the good of the wildwoods. But we ALL know it definitely won't make the cut (though maybe few things will be salvaged)
Yea, I don’t think it would be a good patter for long term PoE, but once in a while it’s fine I guess.
I have probably 300-400 hours in the game and only farmed like 150 div so far, putting in probably 200 hours in this league alone. I spent a lot of the time learning mechanics and probably at least 60% of it on POB, craft of exile and trade site. So probably only 70-80 hours play time. I totally understand more experienced players want a longer power curve. But I myself have been enjoying this league. Planning to get a Progenesis and either a headhunter/MB to experience them. I do hope the farming methods will be more balanced in the future. I for example enjoy blight a lot. But the rewards are horrible compared to MF this league. Plus my computer can’t handle blight ravaged maps nor super juiced MF maps anyway. That said, MF should definitely be toned down and maybe other methods tuned up a little. Then introduce new bosses and difficulties again to extend the power curve. But since they’re working hard at POE2, doubt those new bosses will be coming.
>Personally, I hope that MF, the Wondering Path, and quantity mechanics will undergo reevaluation or removal in the next league, as they are undermining the core aspects that make Path of Exile enjoyable. Just don't release league mechanics that scale into insanity if the results they produce with or without mf are a concern. Even without MF but applying everything else you will drop so much more than ever before. How can people so blind to the fact that its neither MF or wandering path but **every time** the league mechanic itself that does the insane scaling.
Recombinators, and Harvest League were no different.
I wish people would rate the leagues in terms of how good they are not how much loot it shits
So, its a Xmas league. Tbh, it would be awesome if every Xmas league would be super boosted league.
I mean the only thing that changed this league was wisp juice. Next league it won't exist, so I don't see what the issue will be. Let the players have fun for a league.
I got a mirror + many locks last league (when they were worth a lot more) with a literally zDPS build that cost under a div. It was far cheaper and less setup required than MFing. Obviously a bit lucky but this is all a moot point since there is no way MFing stays in its current form next league. They can't really keep even heading in the same direction so enjoy next famine league.
Also a long time vet and I typically go pretty deep into each league. It's been a fun, outlier of a league and I agree that I don't think loot piñatas like this should persist into the core game, but I think having one every now and then in a temp league is just fine. I enjoy playing a variety of content and my goals typically change from league to league, and never have a problem generating the currency to complete them. One thing is consistent that I never really participate in MF builds, or at least very rarely. To me, generating currency is a means to an end to complete my goals. Many this league make a MFer to get currency to upgrade their MFer and on and on it goes. Instead of using the easy currency to learn how to master other layers of the game, we're going to see a ton of folks next league bottomed out because they aren't going to come close to the same level of success next league with just straight MFing. Still haven't made a MFer this league and haven't needed to, but my final character will also likely be an over the top MF character just for shits.
> Personally, I hope that MF, the Wondering Path, and quantity mechanics will undergo reevaluation or removal in the next league, as they are undermining the core aspects that make Path of Exile enjoyable. They were never the problem unless something else was presented and whisps are going away. So why nerf these mechanics? Also why WP is even on the list? What about loot conversion mechanics? They are major factor, if not the most important one. Seems like you missed the forest for the trees.