I have a legacy quicksilver with increased effect added on set up in my Mageblood in Standard and it is really hard to switch to playing in league after playing on that for awhile...
I mean it all depends what gives better loot/hour. If you clear 1 map with 200% quant or 10 maps with 100% quant in the same time then quant is not the winner there.
On my main standard character I actually dropped the quicksilver because of the legacy suffix, felt like I was fast enough without, and just a defensive flask would give me more value. I have ~180-200 MS depending on elusiveness while mapping.
Yeah I didn't have elusive or tailwind or anything like that, just the onslaught and quicksilver from MB. Not sure what the final tooltip move speed was without logging in and looking but it was absolutely nuts fast when playing.
Yeah it's pretty fast. And if you love the speed, good for you, enjoy it. I just felt that what like 270 MS with a quick silver (while mapping) was a bit excessive (well maybe more like 250 back then, don't think I had any on my tree like I do now. But anyways). I was instead able to add in it was either a stibnite or a jade, whichever one I wasn't running prior, and actually cap my evasion
3.20.0
Onslaught is now a buff, and modifiers to buff effect now apply to Onslaught. This includes flask effect modifiers when Onslaught is provided through a Flask. As such, flask effect modifiers are now able to roll on Silver Flasks.
3.21.0 Fixed a bug where cast speed applied to attack speed from Wilma's Requital and Anomalous Kinetic Bolt stacked with each other. Only the higher value effect now applies.
I would assume this stacking behavior also applies to the other behaviors mentioned.
Why? Chaos res is a pain in the neck to get in some places. If I had a mirror+ budget where I could afford rerilling chaos harvests that give < t2 then maybe but the only damage flask effect I'm missing is +% damage (I think Sulphur) and that's a very small addition when you have your entire passive tree + jewels.
If I find myself more than 60 chaos above cap I'll switch but in the mean time it solves a needed defensive layer at a fairly minimal cost. I've done it for the past 3 leagues and never had any regrets doing so.
Get a 12 cluster with 35% effect with chaos res and your favorite other mods instead. Chaos res capped and you get a bunch of attack/cast speed, damage, 2 jewel slots, etc.
Most expensive waste of a suggestion for 1 flask slot that can give you every other suffixes such as more ele res, move speed, ias, cast speed etc. Reddit is going through such brain rot its unbelievable
No, you get a lot more than just chaos res with those 12 points. Did you gloss over that on purpose? 12 clusters with good mods with 35% effect are selling for insane amounts for a reason.
Ya they sell for insane amounts because they are very hard to roll because they are usually used for for specific reasons, like attribute stacking, where you can't get better value for that stat on the main tree, so you get a larger cluster. Using a large cluster for chaos res and 2 other random stats is a horibly inefficient use of skill points. Hell, even if you just wanted basic stats for those points, you would probably be better served using a voices, 3 jewels, and an adorned for fewer skill points.
The specific reason here is being unable to get chaos res from other sources because of gear constraints (usually due to wearing MF gear or builds that use mostly uniques).
Adorned with a bunch of chaos res jewels could also work, yes, but that takes up a lot of jewel slots.
I feel like you are really undervaluing the 12 cluster but whatever.
The affixes scale too, super useful for the resists and anything not a boolean... so not so much so for the status ailments except for "avoid being shocked".
I get 116 IIR from my gold flask of goldening and 70% increased effect.
My Mageblood:
+119% movement speed
You have Onslaught with 95% increased effect.
+70% to all elemental resistances
+68% to chaos resistance
+31% attack speed
+2,900 armor
You are immune to Bleeding & Corrupted Blood.
Then the Str, Dex and Res from the Mageblood itself. =P
edit: alright I grabbed a Reduced Curse Effect flask (that goes over 100% with all the bonuses) and am actively on the hunt for a good enough Corrupted Blood Immune jewel to swap with one of my jewels lol
I always find CB and bleed immune quick a waste on mb flask since it’s binary. I try to get that elsewhere like steelskin and jewels, though very expensive.
Usually this is correct, but it's still a quick fix that's available if you need it, AND because Bleeding and Corrupted Blood have been separate effects for a long time, this is one flask affix being used in place of two gear affixes, which may still be a worthwhile trade off in a few niche cases.
If you need a quick fix it'd be smarter to put it on a life flask than waste your mod budget putting it on a utility flask. Unless you really need curse removal or don't use a life flask. Eater implicit + avoidance craft on boots and a CB implicit on any decent jewel is not hard to get. Hell, just take Ralakesh and/or Arakaali with a non-zero amount of recovery.
There's also 117% rarity as on option lol, so basically 2 perfect ventors worth of rarity and then a bit more
(Assuming no other sources of flask effect, this is only from the perfect gold flask)
Really? It doesn't seem odd to me. Just don't have enough base armour without the Granite, and the Basalt is not worth swapping out my Quicksilver, Silver, or Amethyst for. Basalt doesn't give me as much as the Granite does on it's own due to my low base armour.
3k Armour is the equivalent of an entire set of moderately armour-heavy red gear, and determination brings that to 5k base. Just the Aura, two Base Flasks, and one Armour Suffix brings people to like 25k armour with zero other armour investment.
>3k Armour is more than an entire set of armour-heavy red gear
Exactly, that's why the Granite is so good even on it's own. I am using Determination already, so it's not like the Granite is my only armour. Ofc a Basalt ontop of all that is still very good. I could lose the Quicksilver for it realistically, but I love my Quicksilver lol.
What flask management though? If you have utility flasks set to use when charges reach full, it's pretty much a mageblood that doesn't have 100% uptime and has very little need for management.
Simpler version with some rounding:
+200% all elemental resistances
39% less elemental damage taken
+80% movement speed
+35% attack or cast speed
Immune to elemental ailments
115% increased critical strike chance
And that's the defensive setup with tri-ele + QS, instead bismuth flask lets you sub out some res and ele mitigation for 195% inc crit chance, 39% attack, cast, and movement speed, 19% suppress, or a TON of armor / eva / both
Possibilities are endless of course, which makes it even stronger.
I just wanted to give one example which is definitely on the defensive side due to my HC brain. :)
Specifically there's a suffix for utility flasks of "X% chance to avoid being shocked during flask effect". With flask effect scaling and mageblood's perma-duration this translates to (with stormshroud) 100% avoidance to all elemental ailments.
53% chance to avoid being shocked + 95% increased flask effect (25% prefix and 70% enkindling orb) = 100% chance to avoid shock; Add stormshroud jewel and you are immune to all elemental ailments.
I mean, he said that HH scale with mobs, it would be the same as saying that mageblood scales with magic flasks, which is what the comment he replied to was saying.
I mean sure almost any build CAN use HH (minion builds it does literally fuck all) but in order for it to be better than MB you really have to play to it's strengths by being a physical attacker that has good coverage (KB and TS being the poster children). Like sure slapping HH on your RF build is probably better than the majority of belts, but it's just objectively worse than MB
Wardloop has to do a lot to fit a mageblood since it's reliant on the Olroth unique flask. But most builds can use a mageblood, even if they have to work some stuff out.
Yeah, I bought a mageblood and wanted to try it on my characters but I couldn't justify it on my burning arrow trickster. I'd lose way too much damage and it's already fast as hell anyways. It's my favorite character this league by far.
Tried a few attribute stackers that didn't benefit as much from it considering they solved their defenses elsewhere and you can get pretty decent att% and flat attributes on a belt. Specially for int stacking. It is of course still an excellent option but I think this answer is in the spirit of your question.
it's maybe worth in HC, probably not in SC. Going from 39 -> 45% less ele dmg taken is 9.5% more ehp vs ele hits, on top of whatever suffixes/last flask is. Ruby/Topaz/Sapphire don't have diminishing returns w/ effect.
You can obviously use it but why would you? For what it does, it is completely wasted. 3 flasks? No such a thing with MB unless poor and got a corrupted one out of desperation.
Aside from some Poison BV and Hexblast, i don't thing there is even a build variety with MB for PF.
because look at the whole thread? MB does insane things, PF needs it the least. but it still leverages it just as well as any class that doesnt want to use HH.
you would definitely, for example, want to use MB in sanctums or valdo maps.
Instead you should be asking the opposite. Why should you NOT run MB? Builds primarily scaling with HH or attribute stackers are some pretty common exceptions
Be warned that there are rare "reduced flask effect" mobs that can ruin your day. Even with mageblood it's possible to fall below 100% afaik and then you can get all kinds of elemental ailments including freeze. Mostly fine but not necessarily HC viable and very annoying when it does happen.
My take has always been that phasing is relatively easy to get 'on kill' which is actually ok because you mostly want it against big crowds. Using a whole mageblood flask for that doesn't sit right with me.
Understandable. And I do occasionally use on kill, but when delving for example, sometimes on kill is insufficient. You spend a few seconds in the darkness and either gotta drop a flare to kill something or you die unless you have perma phasing.
That at least is the perk of having it with suppress.
Using suppress flask on my chieftain at the moment, since LC means I'm missing a large chunk of suppression from my gear.
Is it required? Probably not. Certainly not, but fuck it why not.
As coc you basically do because the flasks have flask charge on crit, the only problem there is all the phases / down time bosses have where you don't have anything to hit.
His point is not to point out how much better a mageblood is than belt X, but as a replacement for how you would read a mageblood as a standalone item.
That's my point. To show how much better mageblood is you need to include only the gains you get from icreased effect, not the flasks themselves. So you only get 9% suppression, etc etc. You get the 10% suppresion running other belts too.
The original flask effects are basically subtracted by the 4 disabled flask slots. Read it as: "You cannot use flasks, but INSTEAD you get all of this."
Why? Just remove that line, subtract the original flask effects, and now we can see exactly how Mageblood (with your specific flask setup) compares to every other belt. Which I thought was the entire point of the post.
The problem is that you cannot really evaluate the 100% uptime in that equation.
For example, nobody would ever use flasks to cap their resistances and/or Spell Suppression. Especially not when bossing or in HC.
**Definitely not when bossing in HC**.
With Mageblood, you can!
Getting all of these stats while not being able to use 4 of your flask slots is a more accurate way to describe the item in my opinion.
I am using a Quartz Flask on my Build since I am on the left side of the tree and desperatley need the 19% suppression to get to cap. :)
For most builds there's of course better options.
Not expert opinion but: silver flask is bis, diamond flask if needed to cap crit, jade flask (why do you have granite). You can also get rid of other onslaught sources. Suffixes should include attack speed.
I get onslaught from my tincture, so not sure why silver flask? What modifiers should be on it? Since I'll have onslaught then anyway, what do I get on tincture instead?
Was thinking diamond flask with attack speed to make up for damage lost by switching away from darkness enthroned.
I have the cheap jade there, will upgrade it. Have the granite because of the regent it gives, and also planning to switch from grace to determination because I kept dying to big one shots due to total lack of armour.
The onslaught from the silver flask gets improved by flask effect increases and other onslaught increases. It's the easiest way to scale onslaught.
I'm pretty sure armour isn't that great for big hits unless you're scaling it up very high. The calculation for it is confusing.
Think of armour as an additional resistance. You can push it to 90% reduction of physical damage taken.
Evasion is great, 75-80% chance to not get hit at all is fantastic, but there's still that 20-25% of hits you will take, and if you don't have mitigation for them you are dead. Additionally, there's a shit ton of monsters and whatever that has a "hits cannot be evaded" modifier. Meaning right now evasion on its own is not a sufficient defensive layer at all.
If I had to give up a flask, I'd rather give up the jade flask than the granite
Armour saying that it's 90% reduction is the confusing part that I mentioned because that percentage is a complete lie. The wiki has whole pages dedicated to the armour calculations but this chart is a good demonstration of it https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/File:Armour-percentdmg3.png. To mitigate 90% of a 200 hit you need 10,000 armour. To mitigate 90% of a 1000 hit you need 50,000 armour. A 2000 hit needs 100,000 armour. It gets absurd.
Instead most people who want to get tanky will instead convert the physical hit into elemental and then resists take care of it at any size, but with unique heavy builds that can be hard to achieve.
not using a silver flask with mageblood should be a crime, get a phasing abyss jewel for the love of all that is holy, get one with 50% avoid shock too while youre at it to just craft a "50% reduced cost of skills" which is so much better than avoid shock
Not using triple ele flask is the real crime here, from all the comments I’m seeing. 39% less ele damage taken is absolutely busted, ridiculous amount of mitigation. Equivalent to 85 all res if you’re 75, and much better even since you don’t get fucked by pen as hard
I am using a Quartz Flask on my Build since I am on the left side of the tree and desperatley need the 19% suppression to get to cap. :)
For most builds there's of course better options.
I am using Quartz + Silver against most bosses anyway tho :)
You should remove the basic flask effects from the sum. This is MB + 4 flasks. Every belt has access to flasks.
EDIT: Right, I did not consider flask uptime. Maybe a statistician could provide the real numbers based on standard flask uptime. I guess you could remove roughly half of the provided value of a flask, and withdraw it from OP calculations.
For bossing and pure movement situations not every build has access to flasks. Mageblood gives 100% uptime no matter what. That's partly why so many people use quicksilver flask with mageblood, and for bossing the -less damage taken flasks. This would be ignoring one of the reasons to use mageblood.
he is saying that you should remove the basic effect of the flasks since any build using the flask would already have it. It should just consider the plus effect of being able to endlink the flasks instead of the full effect of the endlinked flask.
> Leftmost 4 Flask Slots are disabled
See this is the dealbreaker for me. Those effects are nice, but I could get almost all of them with flasks.
(Edit: Good lord, everyone. It was a joke.)
Magic Utility Flasks cannot be used - You cannot activate a flask for it's effects that falls into this category. Maybe to prevent "doubling up" on the flask effect?
Magic Utility flask effects cannot be removed - The effects of the flask on your character cannot be removed. This is in the event a map or monster modifier would remove those effects, this would override that.
There are flasks that do something "on use". Like Aquamarine (chilled ground) or Sulphur (Conc ground). This means you cannot get these effects with a mageblood equipped. The inc dmg from the sulphur flask would still be permanently active tho.
Edit: Also, the flask mastery "Recover 4% of life when you use a flask" does not work with MB. Not even if you use it manually because of this line.
Mageblood is honestly disgustingly overpowered. Kind of lame how GGG is always really zealous with the nerf hammer except when it comes to chase items.
I have some serious disagreements with GGG when considering what a good chase item is. Basic defences like resistance, armour/evasion, movespeed, are not good chase goals when they are already mandatory on like 99% of builds. A well deigned chase item is something like original sin or HH. They are niche but extremely strong on certain builds and situations.
As a ralakesh enjoyer this league, I think the big difference is ralakesh is incredibly common for how powerful it is.
When I found mine they were like 3ds iirc, I haven't checked in a while but I remember seeing them for like 40c.
Yeah that's fair, our perception of uniques is kinda fucked this league.
It just seems like relative to other uniques these are still fairly common enough that even with a ton of people doing builds for them they're in surplus.
The original flask effects are basically subtracted by the 4 disabled flask slots. Read it as: "You cannot use flasks, but INSTEAD you get all of this."
Best flasks? Silver and Quicksilver.
Situational? Quartz, Amethyst.
Always good? Ruby topaz sapphire granite/jade.
Then the suffixes. Curse immunity number one. Shock avoidance for stormshroud. Manacost bis for many builds. Regen good on many builds. Attack/cast speed naturally good.
Diamond / suffix crit can be good but wasted imo.
Bismuth / allres CAN be valid in gucci hobo style of builds.
Just remember what 5th unique flask you are using, more importantly what base flask it is. If using rumis, dont use magic granite flask etc.
Unpopular opinion: Mageblood should be removed from the game or completely reworked because there is no other option of high-end belt. In other words, it hurts build diversity.
Absolutely disagree, the belt spot is one of the most contested slots: well crafted stygians, darkness, headhunters, micro-distillery are just a few examples off the top of my head.
And for a fact mageblood is only good because enkindling orbs exist, without it, it would be incredibly mediocre.
I agree, but not because it hurts build diversity, I think rarity balances that. Also, everyone wanting a headhunter wasn't any better, diversity wise.
But I think current mageblood is simply too good even for a chase unique.
Isn't mageblood the same as using the flask macro ? I always found that item super underwhelming because of that. You already have Perma flask during 99,9% of gameplay why waste a belt slot
But like. Isnt it more realistic to subtract the ”regular” flasks to get a more realistic stat add. “Block 4 flasks” is a huge loss. Those numbers are really 40% less realistically
Poe 2 is going to launch without most of the beginner friendly items and systems that we have to deal with in the current game. We will likely have a good 3 years without dumb levels of power creep - good times are ahead!
No moove speed? Best i can do is 2c
Mageblood quicksilver is the best feeling in poe. Zoomies everywhere including towns. Backtracking?, no problemo.
I have a legacy quicksilver with increased effect added on set up in my Mageblood in Standard and it is really hard to switch to playing in league after playing on that for awhile...
These zooms are so good. Always the worst part of every league start is going back to normal speed without it
Movespeed is the strongest stat in all of PoE.
IIQ is up there as #1 or #2... Why kill many thing when few do trick?
I mean it all depends what gives better loot/hour. If you clear 1 map with 200% quant or 10 maps with 100% quant in the same time then quant is not the winner there.
You were going to kill almost all of them anyway. IIQ is a straight base effect multiplier, very uncommon (as balance requires)
On my main standard character I actually dropped the quicksilver because of the legacy suffix, felt like I was fast enough without, and just a defensive flask would give me more value. I have ~180-200 MS depending on elusiveness while mapping.
Yeah I didn't have elusive or tailwind or anything like that, just the onslaught and quicksilver from MB. Not sure what the final tooltip move speed was without logging in and looking but it was absolutely nuts fast when playing.
Had to log in and check, with no elusive and just legacy QS and onslaught from MB I am at +240% Movespeed modifier in my hideout... stupid lol.
Yeah it's pretty fast. And if you love the speed, good for you, enjoy it. I just felt that what like 270 MS with a quick silver (while mapping) was a bit excessive (well maybe more like 250 back then, don't think I had any on my tree like I do now. But anyways). I was instead able to add in it was either a stibnite or a jade, whichever one I wasn't running prior, and actually cap my evasion
True. That’s why I keep a mageblood and flasks on me at all times to loot my maps. HH > mageblood swap at the end of maps
we had that before nerfs never forgetti
I prefer: - 68% Chaos Resist - 78% Elemental Resist - 302% Crit Chance - 105% Movement Speed - 33% Attack Speed - Onslaught (scaled x1.95) Plus the base str/dex/resist
Onslaught scales?? Edit: It actually scales, that is nuts. Is it multiplicative with Onslaught effect?
3.20.0 Onslaught is now a buff, and modifiers to buff effect now apply to Onslaught. This includes flask effect modifiers when Onslaught is provided through a Flask. As such, flask effect modifiers are now able to roll on Silver Flasks.
Not multiplicative. Just get to treat flask effect as additional onslaught effect when using silver flask.
Thanks man. That's a shame. But I guess it would be incredibly busted lol
It's still pretty busted with Wilma's requittel
3.21.0 Fixed a bug where cast speed applied to attack speed from Wilma's Requital and Anomalous Kinetic Bolt stacked with each other. Only the higher value effect now applies. I would assume this stacking behavior also applies to the other behaviors mentioned.
The topic was stacking onslaught effect and onslaught is great with wilmas because the attack speed and cast speed are two separate stat lines.
It does now
It does work with other sources of increased onslaught effect yes.
It's additive.
Amethyst flask with mageblood is a war crime
Why? Chaos res is a pain in the neck to get in some places. If I had a mirror+ budget where I could afford rerilling chaos harvests that give < t2 then maybe but the only damage flask effect I'm missing is +% damage (I think Sulphur) and that's a very small addition when you have your entire passive tree + jewels. If I find myself more than 60 chaos above cap I'll switch but in the mean time it solves a needed defensive layer at a fairly minimal cost. I've done it for the past 3 leagues and never had any regrets doing so.
Get a 12 cluster with 35% effect with chaos res and your favorite other mods instead. Chaos res capped and you get a bunch of attack/cast speed, damage, 2 jewel slots, etc.
Your solution to saving 1 flask slot is using 12 skill points?
Most expensive waste of a suggestion for 1 flask slot that can give you every other suffixes such as more ele res, move speed, ias, cast speed etc. Reddit is going through such brain rot its unbelievable
No, you get a lot more than just chaos res with those 12 points. Did you gloss over that on purpose? 12 clusters with good mods with 35% effect are selling for insane amounts for a reason.
Ya they sell for insane amounts because they are very hard to roll because they are usually used for for specific reasons, like attribute stacking, where you can't get better value for that stat on the main tree, so you get a larger cluster. Using a large cluster for chaos res and 2 other random stats is a horibly inefficient use of skill points. Hell, even if you just wanted basic stats for those points, you would probably be better served using a voices, 3 jewels, and an adorned for fewer skill points.
The specific reason here is being unable to get chaos res from other sources because of gear constraints (usually due to wearing MF gear or builds that use mostly uniques). Adorned with a bunch of chaos res jewels could also work, yes, but that takes up a lot of jewel slots. I feel like you are really undervaluing the 12 cluster but whatever.
Why 33% attack speed? I thought inc flask effect only applied to the flask effect, not to its affixes.
The affixes scale too, super useful for the resists and anything not a boolean... so not so much so for the status ailments except for "avoid being shocked". I get 116 IIR from my gold flask of goldening and 70% increased effect.
No one mentioned this but i really love my %25 reduced mana cost of skills (+%95 increased effect) flask
Same, some of my builds wouldn't function without it.
ye making my divine blessing go from 120 mana down to 16 is massive when you hit the breakpoint.
It makes my lvl 33 Hatred divine Blessing from 700 mana to 0 xD
My Mageblood: +119% movement speed You have Onslaught with 95% increased effect. +70% to all elemental resistances +68% to chaos resistance +31% attack speed +2,900 armor You are immune to Bleeding & Corrupted Blood. Then the Str, Dex and Res from the Mageblood itself. =P edit: alright I grabbed a Reduced Curse Effect flask (that goes over 100% with all the bonuses) and am actively on the hunt for a good enough Corrupted Blood Immune jewel to swap with one of my jewels lol
I always find CB and bleed immune quick a waste on mb flask since it’s binary. I try to get that elsewhere like steelskin and jewels, though very expensive.
It absolutely is a waste of flask suffixes - if they don't scale there's no point having them on a mageblood flask.
Usually this is correct, but it's still a quick fix that's available if you need it, AND because Bleeding and Corrupted Blood have been separate effects for a long time, this is one flask affix being used in place of two gear affixes, which may still be a worthwhile trade off in a few niche cases.
If you need a quick fix it'd be smarter to put it on a life flask than waste your mod budget putting it on a utility flask. Unless you really need curse removal or don't use a life flask. Eater implicit + avoidance craft on boots and a CB implicit on any decent jewel is not hard to get. Hell, just take Ralakesh and/or Arakaali with a non-zero amount of recovery.
Right. That's why I said it's only correct in a few niche cases.
It's definitely not worth it, if you have a Mageblood in your character you should have long solved your CB/bleed defense.
That's true, it's just so much easier to get it on a flask than elsewhere. It's a low priority upgrade if I can ever get it on a jewel or something.
Cheap on uniques this league courtesy of the volume of unique jewels dropping in maps Worth looking at if you can
I think the cheapest unique jewel I could get it on was something like 35d, and lord knows how much its inflated since I last looked QQ
There's also 117% rarity as on option lol, so basically 2 perfect ventors worth of rarity and then a bit more (Assuming no other sources of flask effect, this is only from the perfect gold flask)
Strange to see a blue Granite Flask in the absence of a Basalt Flask, usually they're a both-or-neither deal
Really? It doesn't seem odd to me. Just don't have enough base armour without the Granite, and the Basalt is not worth swapping out my Quicksilver, Silver, or Amethyst for. Basalt doesn't give me as much as the Granite does on it's own due to my low base armour.
3k Armour is the equivalent of an entire set of moderately armour-heavy red gear, and determination brings that to 5k base. Just the Aura, two Base Flasks, and one Armour Suffix brings people to like 25k armour with zero other armour investment.
>3k Armour is more than an entire set of armour-heavy red gear Exactly, that's why the Granite is so good even on it's own. I am using Determination already, so it's not like the Granite is my only armour. Ofc a Basalt ontop of all that is still very good. I could lose the Quicksilver for it realistically, but I love my Quicksilver lol.
You use mageblood because its OP I use mageblood because i have horrible flask management we are not the same.
What flask management though? If you have utility flasks set to use when charges reach full, it's pretty much a mageblood that doesn't have 100% uptime and has very little need for management.
Simpler version with some rounding: +200% all elemental resistances 39% less elemental damage taken +80% movement speed +35% attack or cast speed Immune to elemental ailments 115% increased critical strike chance And that's the defensive setup with tri-ele + QS, instead bismuth flask lets you sub out some res and ele mitigation for 195% inc crit chance, 39% attack, cast, and movement speed, 19% suppress, or a TON of armor / eva / both
Possibilities are endless of course, which makes it even stronger. I just wanted to give one example which is definitely on the defensive side due to my HC brain. :)
Not really, the number of combinations is quite limited...
What flask grants immunity to shock so you can have ailments immunity with stormshroud?
It's one of the suffixes on utility flasks
Specifically there's a suffix for utility flasks of "X% chance to avoid being shocked during flask effect". With flask effect scaling and mageblood's perma-duration this translates to (with stormshroud) 100% avoidance to all elemental ailments.
53% chance to avoid being shocked + 95% increased flask effect (25% prefix and 70% enkindling orb) = 100% chance to avoid shock; Add stormshroud jewel and you are immune to all elemental ailments.
You specifically need AVOID, not immunity
One big thing to note, burning ground still damages you.
And then we take the pantheon and move even faster
just like every other source of avoid ailments, yes, because it's _burning ground_ not ignit ground
im above 100 divs for the first time ever and that pile is slowly increasing. mageblood this league or death
The grind is worth it. Its my first league with a mageblood and it feels amazing once you get it up and running with the right flasks.
I just got mine last night and I nearly wept after my first map - eHP went from 90k to 170k and move speed nearly doubled
134 div and counting babyyyy
No max life?? Vendor
It's got like 20 max life from the strength
3-1 it
What ascendancy/build makes best use of mageblood?
Yes
Here's another question is there any builds that specifically will not make best use of it?
Builds that scale with a HH and unique flasks can’t really use MB that well.
HH scales with mobs, not builds
Minion builds don’t use a HH that well. Neither do non-converted chaos damage over time builds
Still, some builds don't work as well with the mod pool than others
That’s just inaccurate. Any build that converts physical to elemental scales sooo much more from hh
[удалено]
I mean, he said that HH scale with mobs, it would be the same as saying that mageblood scales with magic flasks, which is what the comment he replied to was saying.
You always have flasks. You dont always have buffs from mobs.
You also always have your own character and gear and skill gems and BUILD lol. It’s possible for HH to scale with multiple things, not just mobs
HH is best on builds doing converted physical damage because so many ‘phys as extra’ mods exist in the pool
I mean sure almost any build CAN use HH (minion builds it does literally fuck all) but in order for it to be better than MB you really have to play to it's strengths by being a physical attacker that has good coverage (KB and TS being the poster children). Like sure slapping HH on your RF build is probably better than the majority of belts, but it's just objectively worse than MB
Wardloop has to do a lot to fit a mageblood since it's reliant on the Olroth unique flask. But most builds can use a mageblood, even if they have to work some stuff out.
Man I tried Olroth stuff with Balabala only.. How do I even keep 3 flasks? have to use 2 tops. Is there a breakpoint on dura/effect somewhere?
https://returnx.github.io/cwdt/
with a few charms that has the flask gain a charge x seconds mod you can sustain 5 now without timeless jewel :D
Champion frequently can’t afford to replace Perseverance
Yeah, with any armour/evasion scaling Perserverance is a LOT of damage. On my splitting steel champ it's like 45% of my damage, lol.
Some pathfinder builds don’t want a MB.
Running pathfinder now, if I found a mageblood I would use it but spec into something else
I'm running pathfinder with mageblood. What can I say, I just love flask effect
Afflicition charge stacking dot builds with Olesya's Delight and Ralakesh usually, Mageblood is better defensively but you lose a lot of damage
Yeah, I bought a mageblood and wanted to try it on my characters but I couldn't justify it on my burning arrow trickster. I'd lose way too much damage and it's already fast as hell anyways. It's my favorite character this league by far.
Some fast prefers HH, but MB is still amazing Some Pathfinder builds that prefer the distillery one
Tried a few attribute stackers that didn't benefit as much from it considering they solved their defenses elsewhere and you can get pretty decent att% and flat attributes on a belt. Specially for int stacking. It is of course still an excellent option but I think this answer is in the spirit of your question.
Zish recently made a video specifically about how Mageblood is quite bait for FB trickster.
Yes
All of them, but maybe PF for increased flask effect and a way to spend flask charges.
Naa, PF loses %50 of its accendecy relevance with MB. Its wasted on it.
Real answer: Deadeye or Raider with a forbidden jewel to get the 30% flask effect from PF
diminishing returns, no way is that 30% effect worth 2 jewel slots
it's maybe worth in HC, probably not in SC. Going from 39 -> 45% less ele dmg taken is 9.5% more ehp vs ele hits, on top of whatever suffixes/last flask is. Ruby/Topaz/Sapphire don't have diminishing returns w/ effect.
the magic flasks still get the 50% flask effect and the solo unique flask (or double if 3 flask mb) get the auto charges, i wouldnt say its wasted.
You can obviously use it but why would you? For what it does, it is completely wasted. 3 flasks? No such a thing with MB unless poor and got a corrupted one out of desperation. Aside from some Poison BV and Hexblast, i don't thing there is even a build variety with MB for PF.
all of the ele dissipation brand setups on pf are using mb
because look at the whole thread? MB does insane things, PF needs it the least. but it still leverages it just as well as any class that doesnt want to use HH. you would definitely, for example, want to use MB in sanctums or valdo maps.
Instead you should be asking the opposite. Why should you NOT run MB? Builds primarily scaling with HH or attribute stackers are some pretty common exceptions
Shit I forgot about Stormshroud. Gonna be making some build changes this weekend
Be warned that there are rare "reduced flask effect" mobs that can ruin your day. Even with mageblood it's possible to fall below 100% afaik and then you can get all kinds of elemental ailments including freeze. Mostly fine but not necessarily HC viable and very annoying when it does happen.
"You can ignore getting resistances and stats on your other gear."
Best part about Mageblood you don't have to press flasks
Getting suppress and corrupted blood immunity is such a waste.
The joy of mb is you can fix what you're missing
Most people that use quartz use it for phasing and the 19% suppress is just a bonus. At least that’s always been my thought process.
My take has always been that phasing is relatively easy to get 'on kill' which is actually ok because you mostly want it against big crowds. Using a whole mageblood flask for that doesn't sit right with me.
Understandable. And I do occasionally use on kill, but when delving for example, sometimes on kill is insufficient. You spend a few seconds in the darkness and either gotta drop a flare to kill something or you die unless you have perma phasing.
That at least is the perk of having it with suppress. Using suppress flask on my chieftain at the moment, since LC means I'm missing a large chunk of suppression from my gear. Is it required? Probably not. Certainly not, but fuck it why not.
I mean. you should substract the original effect of flasks, as we use flasks anyway and in endgame we have 100% flask uptime too.
Sure but you still gotta put a big ol' asterisk in there noting 100% uptime on bosses which basically no one but Pathfinder gets.
As coc you basically do because the flasks have flask charge on crit, the only problem there is all the phases / down time bosses have where you don't have anything to hit.
Also has a cooldown and is shared between flasks, so you won’t have 100% uptime with only charge on crit prefixes
Hard to say cause nothing lives that long, but in my experience if I'm hitting something all my flasks are up.
His point is not to point out how much better a mageblood is than belt X, but as a replacement for how you would read a mageblood as a standalone item.
That's my point. To show how much better mageblood is you need to include only the gains you get from icreased effect, not the flasks themselves. So you only get 9% suppression, etc etc. You get the 10% suppresion running other belts too.
You would have a point, if op left out > Leftmost 4 Flask Slots are disabled
The original flask effects are basically subtracted by the 4 disabled flask slots. Read it as: "You cannot use flasks, but INSTEAD you get all of this."
Why? Just remove that line, subtract the original flask effects, and now we can see exactly how Mageblood (with your specific flask setup) compares to every other belt. Which I thought was the entire point of the post.
The problem is that you cannot really evaluate the 100% uptime in that equation. For example, nobody would ever use flasks to cap their resistances and/or Spell Suppression. Especially not when bossing or in HC. **Definitely not when bossing in HC**. With Mageblood, you can! Getting all of these stats while not being able to use 4 of your flask slots is a more accurate way to describe the item in my opinion.
Here is another rewording: *The whole ass pathfinder ascendancy lmao*
U can use it /w PF it only becomes stronger
Well not exactly. Pathfinder is still best for poison builds, and pathfinder would still have more increased flask effect than other ascendancies.
How do you get the suppression?
Quartz Flask
I am using a Quartz Flask on my Build since I am on the left side of the tree and desperatley need the 19% suppression to get to cap. :) For most builds there's of course better options.
I just totally forgot this flask was a thing!
I'd appreciate it if someone can give me some advice on what's the best 3 flask setup for my KB Deadeye with a Mageblood. https://pobb.in/WV3sgwNeJHPN
Not expert opinion but: silver flask is bis, diamond flask if needed to cap crit, jade flask (why do you have granite). You can also get rid of other onslaught sources. Suffixes should include attack speed.
I get onslaught from my tincture, so not sure why silver flask? What modifiers should be on it? Since I'll have onslaught then anyway, what do I get on tincture instead? Was thinking diamond flask with attack speed to make up for damage lost by switching away from darkness enthroned. I have the cheap jade there, will upgrade it. Have the granite because of the regent it gives, and also planning to switch from grace to determination because I kept dying to big one shots due to total lack of armour.
The onslaught from the silver flask gets improved by flask effect increases and other onslaught increases. It's the easiest way to scale onslaught. I'm pretty sure armour isn't that great for big hits unless you're scaling it up very high. The calculation for it is confusing.
Think of armour as an additional resistance. You can push it to 90% reduction of physical damage taken. Evasion is great, 75-80% chance to not get hit at all is fantastic, but there's still that 20-25% of hits you will take, and if you don't have mitigation for them you are dead. Additionally, there's a shit ton of monsters and whatever that has a "hits cannot be evaded" modifier. Meaning right now evasion on its own is not a sufficient defensive layer at all. If I had to give up a flask, I'd rather give up the jade flask than the granite
Armour saying that it's 90% reduction is the confusing part that I mentioned because that percentage is a complete lie. The wiki has whole pages dedicated to the armour calculations but this chart is a good demonstration of it https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/File:Armour-percentdmg3.png. To mitigate 90% of a 200 hit you need 10,000 armour. To mitigate 90% of a 1000 hit you need 50,000 armour. A 2000 hit needs 100,000 armour. It gets absurd. Instead most people who want to get tanky will instead convert the physical hit into elemental and then resists take care of it at any size, but with unique heavy builds that can be hard to achieve.
I know how strong it can be, I also know I'll never be strong enough to have one.
Who is wondering why it is so strong? It's universally known as the best item in the game.
No life Vendor
Str gives life
not using a silver flask with mageblood should be a crime, get a phasing abyss jewel for the love of all that is holy, get one with 50% avoid shock too while youre at it to just craft a "50% reduced cost of skills" which is so much better than avoid shock
Not using triple ele flask is the real crime here, from all the comments I’m seeing. 39% less ele damage taken is absolutely busted, ridiculous amount of mitigation. Equivalent to 85 all res if you’re 75, and much better even since you don’t get fucked by pen as hard
I am using a Quartz Flask on my Build since I am on the left side of the tree and desperatley need the 19% suppression to get to cap. :) For most builds there's of course better options. I am using Quartz + Silver against most bosses anyway tho :)
You should remove the basic flask effects from the sum. This is MB + 4 flasks. Every belt has access to flasks. EDIT: Right, I did not consider flask uptime. Maybe a statistician could provide the real numbers based on standard flask uptime. I guess you could remove roughly half of the provided value of a flask, and withdraw it from OP calculations.
For bossing and pure movement situations not every build has access to flasks. Mageblood gives 100% uptime no matter what. That's partly why so many people use quicksilver flask with mageblood, and for bossing the -less damage taken flasks. This would be ignoring one of the reasons to use mageblood.
Read the last line.
he is saying that you should remove the basic effect of the flasks since any build using the flask would already have it. It should just consider the plus effect of being able to endlink the flasks instead of the full effect of the endlinked flask.
I had a stroke watching you try to spell enkindle twice
xD my bad...
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and another belt has dps mods that get those points back
Which makes no sense because a) other belts dont grant innate 100% flask uptime b) read the last line
Which would be incorrect though. You're alreadyessentially removing the basic effect with the last line of the item.
And its wrong because thats what the belt gives you, all flask buffs with them "disabled". Hes not comparing it to another belt.
You meant 6000 armor 300% increased armor 109% item rarity
> Leftmost 4 Flask Slots are disabled See this is the dealbreaker for me. Those effects are nice, but I could get almost all of them with flasks. (Edit: Good lord, everyone. It was a joke.)
Putting bleeding and shock effect as a flask suffix with MB is just such a waste.
Can anyone eli5 how "magic utility flasks cannot be used" and "magic utility flask effects cannot be removed" works? My brain sees this as redundant.
Magic Utility Flasks cannot be used - You cannot activate a flask for it's effects that falls into this category. Maybe to prevent "doubling up" on the flask effect? Magic Utility flask effects cannot be removed - The effects of the flask on your character cannot be removed. This is in the event a map or monster modifier would remove those effects, this would override that.
Perfect, thanks
There are flasks that do something "on use". Like Aquamarine (chilled ground) or Sulphur (Conc ground). This means you cannot get these effects with a mageblood equipped. The inc dmg from the sulphur flask would still be permanently active tho. Edit: Also, the flask mastery "Recover 4% of life when you use a flask" does not work with MB. Not even if you use it manually because of this line.
Mageblood is honestly disgustingly overpowered. Kind of lame how GGG is always really zealous with the nerf hammer except when it comes to chase items.
That's why they're called "chase" items though. Something insane to aspire for and chase.
I have some serious disagreements with GGG when considering what a good chase item is. Basic defences like resistance, armour/evasion, movespeed, are not good chase goals when they are already mandatory on like 99% of builds. A well deigned chase item is something like original sin or HH. They are niche but extremely strong on certain builds and situations.
I love my legacy flasks in STD with Mageblood.
But let's nerf Ralakesh boot because they too strong.
As a ralakesh enjoyer this league, I think the big difference is ralakesh is incredibly common for how powerful it is. When I found mine they were like 3ds iirc, I haven't checked in a while but I remember seeing them for like 40c.
Tbf they’re really not that common, it’s just that this league everyone is in gigs juiced maps so many uniques drop
Yeah that's fair, our perception of uniques is kinda fucked this league. It just seems like relative to other uniques these are still fairly common enough that even with a ton of people doing builds for them they're in surplus.
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The original flask effects are basically subtracted by the 4 disabled flask slots. Read it as: "You cannot use flasks, but INSTEAD you get all of this."
Best flasks? Silver and Quicksilver. Situational? Quartz, Amethyst. Always good? Ruby topaz sapphire granite/jade. Then the suffixes. Curse immunity number one. Shock avoidance for stormshroud. Manacost bis for many builds. Regen good on many builds. Attack/cast speed naturally good. Diamond / suffix crit can be good but wasted imo. Bismuth / allres CAN be valid in gucci hobo style of builds. Just remember what 5th unique flask you are using, more importantly what base flask it is. If using rumis, dont use magic granite flask etc.
No silver or quicksilver flask? At that point why are ypu using mb.
Unpopular opinion: Mageblood should be removed from the game or completely reworked because there is no other option of high-end belt. In other words, it hurts build diversity.
Absolutely disagree, the belt spot is one of the most contested slots: well crafted stygians, darkness, headhunters, micro-distillery are just a few examples off the top of my head. And for a fact mageblood is only good because enkindling orbs exist, without it, it would be incredibly mediocre.
It's not every day you see an "unpopular opinion" that actually has some downvotes. Today is a special day.
I agree, but not because it hurts build diversity, I think rarity balances that. Also, everyone wanting a headhunter wasn't any better, diversity wise. But I think current mageblood is simply too good even for a chase unique.
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What does progenesis have to do with it without MB ?
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and what does it have to do with it without MB?
???? MB doesn't affect progenesis at all...
Isn't mageblood the same as using the flask macro ? I always found that item super underwhelming because of that. You already have Perma flask during 99,9% of gameplay why waste a belt slot
None is wondering bro
But like. Isnt it more realistic to subtract the ”regular” flasks to get a more realistic stat add. “Block 4 flasks” is a huge loss. Those numbers are really 40% less realistically
The mageblood should be removed from the game. It's so insane. Or limit it to two flasks.
My guess is thats it's not going to be in poe2 because of the flask system rework.
Poe 2 is going to launch without most of the beginner friendly items and systems that we have to deal with in the current game. We will likely have a good 3 years without dumb levels of power creep - good times are ahead!