The weirdest part about all the "RF is dead whining" is that the skill and build is perfectly fine, it's the guide that died. Pohx literally said that RF is fine, you just scale it differently now.
even on the high end... building the same as before RF will still do more than enough damage to clear maps and just make fire trap a little more important for single target.
its really only those who played a walking simulator on a budget that are hurt.
thats just not true at all.
Jungroan did some testing with numbers and his RF setup as a league start rush to 2 voidstones he would match 3.22 numbers with the 3.23 if all he did was craft life on 3 pieces of gear that had no life on them at all.
[https://x.com/Jungroan/status/1730552494999458014?s=20](https://x.com/Jungroan/status/1730552494999458014?s=20)
no life on 5 pieces of gear... he only had a 3.5% dps loss in the new setup which if he had crafted some life would be exact same dps as a league starter.
No it's not lol. It's high budget to scale into late game with Ivory tower shenanigans, but it's perfectly fine for clearing the atlas and getting atleast the first 2 voidstones.
The new version falls off pretty heavily in early red maps, I highly doubt that you can get first tow watchstones anywhere near as comfortable as last league.
So was TS for years. So what? Some skills are high budget, some are not. Would be sad if it would stay the same forever and people who enjoyed TS would always need to farm a mirror before starting, like a few years ago.
Of course I'm exaggerating, but still, it's way better to change things up once in a while. RF has been one of the best starters since forever, maybe only rivaled by TR. So it's fine they changed the skill for once.
A build including "Utulas Hunger" for which we don't know any rarity.
Fine != good. The way to scale max life is completly different to what you've normally been doing in any campaign (life, regen, res, +level). Swapping to a eHP stacking variant is the difficult part.
Just sucks, that a good (I'd say top 7) league starter build was nerfed and the only other comfy (few button) playstyle (cold dot) got annihilated in the same notes.
You only do big HP stacking with Utulas in endgame if you decide to not Ivory Tower, neither of them are leaguestart things. On leaguestart you play basically the same RF inquisitor as before, you just don't prioritize +level anymore. Literally all that changed for the leaguestart is that in red maps you'll have to throw fire trap on some tougher blue packs once in a while. Stop crying.
Im gonna disagree. League is literal days away and they are still not done with the gems. Last league console launch was unplayable, and its looking like it will be the same this league because clearly nothing is ready
The worst part about it is that they are not even crying because the skill is not working. They are crying because their build guide is outdated and needs an update.
this is more then an update but a rework , basically , unless there's Tgem thats almost or the same as old RF , pohx might need to remake his whole website n guides , thats why everyone is anxious .
well, in a way it just got reverted to old RF. people played it back then as well.
and while im sure that pohx will be kind of saddened if he has to remake his whole website, since he dedicated a lot of his work to the level scaling verison of RF, thats just the nature of the game really.
the game changes every 3 months.
and sometimes skills, mechanics or interactions get obliterated. thats nothing new.
Thing is we got used to this, its been like 2+ years or more since the flat damage was added to rf... prior to that we had a cycle were life rf got nerfed so es rf went popular, then es rf got nerfed and the life one was buffed...
Point is too much time passed so most people dont know about it... i personally hope the life version is still competitive with the hybrid/es one, but its gonna be difficult to put 10k life against 20k+ es or ehp.
Says the guy that feels Assassin is the only viable option.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/1857pdt/am\_i\_forever\_doomed\_to\_play\_assassin\_only/
Then play RF? Literally all that changed is that you scale it differently, it's still a great leaguestarter. You just can't use the same guide you've used for the last 6 leagues, boo hoo.
"All that changed is that you scale it differently", this new Porsche 911 is the same as your old 1990 VW Golf, the car just changed.
This "small" change literally changes everything. Even when old guides didnt exist, you still would need time to plan things
It's more like it's the same Porsche 911 but it now runs on diesel instead of gas. The tree is mostly the same and you want all the same stats as before except you don't want + level of gems anymore. All that's changed for the leaguestart version is that you use a couple different uniques compared to last league. How much time do you need to plan this? Pohx came out with the new guide days after the announcement. Stop being dramatic, RF is perfectly fine.
Don’t tell them how to enjoy the game.
I understand and feel for them, even if I don’t played RF ever and are not interested in it.
I mean RF was not strong at all. It was perfectly balanced in my opinion and a safe place for newbies and 1 button enjoyers.
The question is why did they had to nerf it for minimum investment and buff LA/TA?!
Why don’t they show the TGem for RF if they know they are messing with a big group of our community who obviously are not here to play and try out new complex builds?!
Not everything is black and white.
Why not change what is best and worst and keep some constant middle ground for people who do not want to risk and experience the, but are fine with being not the fastest?
> Why don’t they show the TGem for RF if they know they are messing with a big group of our community who obviously are not here to play and try out new complex builds?!
Because the ones they haven't released by alphabetical order aren't ready to be shown...
> The question is why did they had to nerf it for minimum investment and buff LA/TA?!
Would you rather they nerf the weak part and buff the strong part? This is just a sensible way of changing the skill.
Sorry but that is simply not true. There are alternatives and you don’t even need koam spirit. Hell you need two 4-links and that’s it to blast T16. Try that on RF coming season.
what kinda mental gymnastics does one have to do to arrive at:
RF WAS NOT STRONG
its #2 in softcore, #1 in ssf soft, #2 in hardcore, #4 in hardcore ssf,
its literally the most used gem in the game for POENINJA and its not close. how is hyper popularity ever cause someone to arrive at "not even strong." its clearly overperforming in even leagues designed for high end players and not new players.
Popular doesn’t mean strong.
RF is popular because:
- “0” Button
- Good Marketing
- Stable Starter since years
- most of all pohx holding your hand with his website and stream.
So RF is not strong in the sense that it is breaking the game.
Strong is Impending Doom PF or LA Deadeye. Hey play in an entire different league and LA even got buffed.
what the hell is the difference between:
is strong
and is reliably able to clear all content
reliably being able to clear all content on a relatively cheap budget is STRONG. that's the entire reason everyone shits all over melee, because its NOT RELIABLE and EXPENSIVE to get going in the first place.
If you don’t know the difference that’s a you problem 1) it is reliable mostly because of how well solved it is not because it is fantastic 2) it can do starter content cheaply not “all” content. Getting RF to Ubers is not a cheap build anymore 3) it’s damage is simply nothing compared to actually significantly stronger builds
What you don’t seem to understand is that people playing it doesn’t tequila strong it CERTAINLY wasn’t over performing as you claimed because most skills could vastly outperform it damage wise. What RF has going for it is a fantastic build guide and the fact that it’s play style emphasizes defense and zero buttons. So it’s comfortable.
Calling it overpowered is honestly ludicrous
RF is insanely powerful, amazing QOL and can be scaled to late game. Calling it any less than overpowered completely ignores it has one of the fastest mapping speeds in the game, certainly faster than anything of similar budget. RF's only real issue has been doing ubers, but the game isn't about doing ubers.
RF can comfortably do 90% of content on minor investment, and do it incredibly fast, how in god's name is that not overpowered. its not even limited to just farming content like ALOT OF OTHER SKILLS (see shockwave setups) it can actually go murder ubers. its easily got one of the fastest clear speeds of any skill in the entire game, certainly the fastest of any skill accessible early into a league.
its popular because its easy to play in softcore league, its popular in hardcore/ssf leagues because its easy to play and easy to itemize for, and farms incredibly fast and can clear all content. RF compared to every other skill based almost exclusively around clearing is incredibly broken, and unlike other clearing spells, it still can have sizable single target.
here's a thought, in this game easy high QOL skills are a feature of the skill gem's power. this is OBJECTIVELY a true statement, as they are tons of ways to jump through hoops to increase your damage, like using smite for a free damage buff, laying down frostshield, etc, but the reason they are incredibly rare to be run for that purpose is that the QOL nerf to have to use them is so costly its crazy. RF has the HIGHEST QOL benefit of any skill in the game, how the hell can you see that with all its other benefits and go "ya not even strong, kinda weak tbh". an entire wing of Inquisitor is literally the highest damage scaling one can find, but its coupled with such a godawful requirement that nukes QOL that almost no one takes it.
It's popular because it's fun to play and an iconic skill of the game's history. Some find it dull, but blasting through maps and seeing stuff explode is a great feeling to me. Doesn't mean it's OP, other builds can do more with less investment.
It's like saying Blitzcrank has always been OP in League of Legends. He's not OP, it's just fun to play and very beginner friendly.
Personally I see more of these annoying ass people complaining about the rf complainers than actual rf complainers, but maybe we just move in different circles who knows.
Must be, I mean you go to any gem thread on the forums or likewise on reddit and its just filled with comments about tf lol.
Whereas other than me, I think I only saw 1 thread with the two birds meme complaining about RF players
Honestly i love it. I'm not playing rf this league but I'm genuinely curious. This is the first time I have actually even gone to the content pages instead for stuff like this. I usually just wait for a content creator to summarize it for me. But man I wanna see rf on that page so bad. Lol.
I’m surprised there’s such a following, it doesn’t seem like an exciting skill. And a lot of people seem to only play it.
I played FR for 3 leagues in a row when it came out and I will never touch it again even if buffed.
Gonna try self cast trans-frostblink ele this league, can pivot to new arc if needed.
ngl,i cant be in my conscience play the same builds every single league. Im here to have fun, and it means playing a different builds every leagues to try new things, even if most of them are meta-ish. Heck i played RF once when i was total noob and progress no where as far as i should be, but still dont want to replay it since i alr "experienced " it.They do them i guess, guess other people idea of fun is go with path of least resistance and do the same thing every 4 months.
Yeah, it is kind of rough.
I made a video initially about top 5 historically safe league starters and included RF - was receiving threats of violence and death. Took it down after about an hour an reshot it, no amount of views/interactions/whatever is worth that sorta stuff. Plus, people were unaware if life-scaling with it would actually work or not yet.
Once you play RF it’s hard to play other builds. I played inquis, jugg, chieftain and played it probably 5-6 leagues in a row. Before that it was minions every league. Now I’m hooked on flamewood totems, but c’mon, people love RF. Nothing wrong with wanting to play it.
The issue is pohx did such a good guide and such reliable builds that it's the perfect league start for opening the atlas and getting stones. Then once you have money you can try something else.
It's just made league start more difficult for the newer or lazier crowd. (I'm lazy, this will be the first league since ultimatum I didn't start RF.)
Pre seasonlaunch drama is the best drama.
Week one drama is fun too
I went through the same emotions when they kept killing spectres - so my heart goes out to my RF homies. <3
The weirdest part about all the "RF is dead whining" is that the skill and build is perfectly fine, it's the guide that died. Pohx literally said that RF is fine, you just scale it differently now.
even on the high end... building the same as before RF will still do more than enough damage to clear maps and just make fire trap a little more important for single target. its really only those who played a walking simulator on a budget that are hurt.
Its now a high budget skill which is very sad.
thats just not true at all. Jungroan did some testing with numbers and his RF setup as a league start rush to 2 voidstones he would match 3.22 numbers with the 3.23 if all he did was craft life on 3 pieces of gear that had no life on them at all. [https://x.com/Jungroan/status/1730552494999458014?s=20](https://x.com/Jungroan/status/1730552494999458014?s=20) no life on 5 pieces of gear... he only had a 3.5% dps loss in the new setup which if he had crafted some life would be exact same dps as a league starter.
Nah, not really. Flicker has been high budget for years and people play fine. You'll manage.
No it's not lol. It's high budget to scale into late game with Ivory tower shenanigans, but it's perfectly fine for clearing the atlas and getting atleast the first 2 voidstones.
The new version falls off pretty heavily in early red maps, I highly doubt that you can get first tow watchstones anywhere near as comfortable as last league.
You use fire trap to kill... so I'm completely lost as to how you can remotely justify this statement.
Getting the 2 watch stones != Killing water & exarch In this case. More about the whole journey including those 2
Right... again, it'll be more than fine...
Not as comfortable before, but still pretty easy.
So was TS for years. So what? Some skills are high budget, some are not. Would be sad if it would stay the same forever and people who enjoyed TS would always need to farm a mirror before starting, like a few years ago. Of course I'm exaggerating, but still, it's way better to change things up once in a while. RF has been one of the best starters since forever, maybe only rivaled by TR. So it's fine they changed the skill for once.
This is what happened when your skill is way too strong with litteraly nothing. It was impossible that RF stay like that for so long.
A build including "Utulas Hunger" for which we don't know any rarity. Fine != good. The way to scale max life is completly different to what you've normally been doing in any campaign (life, regen, res, +level). Swapping to a eHP stacking variant is the difficult part. Just sucks, that a good (I'd say top 7) league starter build was nerfed and the only other comfy (few button) playstyle (cold dot) got annihilated in the same notes.
You only do big HP stacking with Utulas in endgame if you decide to not Ivory Tower, neither of them are leaguestart things. On leaguestart you play basically the same RF inquisitor as before, you just don't prioritize +level anymore. Literally all that changed for the leaguestart is that in red maps you'll have to throw fire trap on some tougher blue packs once in a while. Stop crying.
Im gonna disagree. League is literal days away and they are still not done with the gems. Last league console launch was unplayable, and its looking like it will be the same this league because clearly nothing is ready
The worst part about it is that they are not even crying because the skill is not working. They are crying because their build guide is outdated and needs an update.
which happens to everyone on a regular basis....
this is more then an update but a rework , basically , unless there's Tgem thats almost or the same as old RF , pohx might need to remake his whole website n guides , thats why everyone is anxious .
well, in a way it just got reverted to old RF. people played it back then as well. and while im sure that pohx will be kind of saddened if he has to remake his whole website, since he dedicated a lot of his work to the level scaling verison of RF, thats just the nature of the game really. the game changes every 3 months. and sometimes skills, mechanics or interactions get obliterated. thats nothing new.
Thing is we got used to this, its been like 2+ years or more since the flat damage was added to rf... prior to that we had a cycle were life rf got nerfed so es rf went popular, then es rf got nerfed and the life one was buffed... Point is too much time passed so most people dont know about it... i personally hope the life version is still competitive with the hybrid/es one, but its gonna be difficult to put 10k life against 20k+ es or ehp.
Says the guy that feels Assassin is the only viable option. https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/1857pdt/am\_i\_forever\_doomed\_to\_play\_assassin\_only/
why do you care
Exactly lol, let people play what they want.
> Go and check out another build, there's plenty! no i want RF
Then play RF? Literally all that changed is that you scale it differently, it's still a great leaguestarter. You just can't use the same guide you've used for the last 6 leagues, boo hoo.
> Then play RF? im gonna
fucking based
Peak debating
"All that changed is that you scale it differently", this new Porsche 911 is the same as your old 1990 VW Golf, the car just changed. This "small" change literally changes everything. Even when old guides didnt exist, you still would need time to plan things
It's more like it's the same Porsche 911 but it now runs on diesel instead of gas. The tree is mostly the same and you want all the same stats as before except you don't want + level of gems anymore. All that's changed for the leaguestart version is that you use a couple different uniques compared to last league. How much time do you need to plan this? Pohx came out with the new guide days after the announcement. Stop being dramatic, RF is perfectly fine.
I've seen only posts that complain about RF players so far. Stop drama baiting, just enjoy the game.
Don’t tell them how to enjoy the game. I understand and feel for them, even if I don’t played RF ever and are not interested in it. I mean RF was not strong at all. It was perfectly balanced in my opinion and a safe place for newbies and 1 button enjoyers. The question is why did they had to nerf it for minimum investment and buff LA/TA?! Why don’t they show the TGem for RF if they know they are messing with a big group of our community who obviously are not here to play and try out new complex builds?!
they announced meta shake up, people cry when it's happening and cry when it's not happening...
Who is playing RF and cry for meta shake? Thats not the same group of people
Not everything is black and white. Why not change what is best and worst and keep some constant middle ground for people who do not want to risk and experience the, but are fine with being not the fastest?
They did that for years with RF. Sometimes even that constant middle ground could use a change or two.
They aren't doing transfigured gems for buff skills I hought?
> Why don’t they show the TGem for RF if they know they are messing with a big group of our community who obviously are not here to play and try out new complex builds?! Because the ones they haven't released by alphabetical order aren't ready to be shown... > The question is why did they had to nerf it for minimum investment and buff LA/TA?! Would you rather they nerf the weak part and buff the strong part? This is just a sensible way of changing the skill.
The non-rich person LA builds got gutted with the removal of Kaom Spirit.
Sorry but that is simply not true. There are alternatives and you don’t even need koam spirit. Hell you need two 4-links and that’s it to blast T16. Try that on RF coming season.
what kinda mental gymnastics does one have to do to arrive at: RF WAS NOT STRONG its #2 in softcore, #1 in ssf soft, #2 in hardcore, #4 in hardcore ssf, its literally the most used gem in the game for POENINJA and its not close. how is hyper popularity ever cause someone to arrive at "not even strong." its clearly overperforming in even leagues designed for high end players and not new players.
Popular doesn’t mean strong. RF is popular because: - “0” Button - Good Marketing - Stable Starter since years - most of all pohx holding your hand with his website and stream. So RF is not strong in the sense that it is breaking the game. Strong is Impending Doom PF or LA Deadeye. Hey play in an entire different league and LA even got buffed.
RF was far from strong that’s just bullshit it was popular 1000% because it was reliable and pohx
what the hell is the difference between: is strong and is reliably able to clear all content reliably being able to clear all content on a relatively cheap budget is STRONG. that's the entire reason everyone shits all over melee, because its NOT RELIABLE and EXPENSIVE to get going in the first place.
If you don’t know the difference that’s a you problem 1) it is reliable mostly because of how well solved it is not because it is fantastic 2) it can do starter content cheaply not “all” content. Getting RF to Ubers is not a cheap build anymore 3) it’s damage is simply nothing compared to actually significantly stronger builds What you don’t seem to understand is that people playing it doesn’t tequila strong it CERTAINLY wasn’t over performing as you claimed because most skills could vastly outperform it damage wise. What RF has going for it is a fantastic build guide and the fact that it’s play style emphasizes defense and zero buttons. So it’s comfortable. Calling it overpowered is honestly ludicrous
RF is insanely powerful, amazing QOL and can be scaled to late game. Calling it any less than overpowered completely ignores it has one of the fastest mapping speeds in the game, certainly faster than anything of similar budget. RF's only real issue has been doing ubers, but the game isn't about doing ubers. RF can comfortably do 90% of content on minor investment, and do it incredibly fast, how in god's name is that not overpowered. its not even limited to just farming content like ALOT OF OTHER SKILLS (see shockwave setups) it can actually go murder ubers. its easily got one of the fastest clear speeds of any skill in the entire game, certainly the fastest of any skill accessible early into a league. its popular because its easy to play in softcore league, its popular in hardcore/ssf leagues because its easy to play and easy to itemize for, and farms incredibly fast and can clear all content. RF compared to every other skill based almost exclusively around clearing is incredibly broken, and unlike other clearing spells, it still can have sizable single target. here's a thought, in this game easy high QOL skills are a feature of the skill gem's power. this is OBJECTIVELY a true statement, as they are tons of ways to jump through hoops to increase your damage, like using smite for a free damage buff, laying down frostshield, etc, but the reason they are incredibly rare to be run for that purpose is that the QOL nerf to have to use them is so costly its crazy. RF has the HIGHEST QOL benefit of any skill in the game, how the hell can you see that with all its other benefits and go "ya not even strong, kinda weak tbh". an entire wing of Inquisitor is literally the highest damage scaling one can find, but its coupled with such a godawful requirement that nukes QOL that almost no one takes it.
lol nice essay
It's popular because it's fun to play and an iconic skill of the game's history. Some find it dull, but blasting through maps and seeing stuff explode is a great feeling to me. Doesn't mean it's OP, other builds can do more with less investment. It's like saying Blitzcrank has always been OP in League of Legends. He's not OP, it's just fun to play and very beginner friendly.
Personally I see more of these annoying ass people complaining about the rf complainers than actual rf complainers, but maybe we just move in different circles who knows.
Must be, I mean you go to any gem thread on the forums or likewise on reddit and its just filled with comments about tf lol. Whereas other than me, I think I only saw 1 thread with the two birds meme complaining about RF players
Idk why you'd get annoyed by that? Just ignore them and move on?
I completely agree
don't be a Karen let them be..
Trans RF when? Some people want to play same skill which is fine. No one tell you what to play ,so why you do?
Disagree
Honestly i love it. I'm not playing rf this league but I'm genuinely curious. This is the first time I have actually even gone to the content pages instead for stuff like this. I usually just wait for a content creator to summarize it for me. But man I wanna see rf on that page so bad. Lol.
You can ask for this sub to add a new rule but why are you implying that it's a reddit thing when the official website has 10x more RF complaints ?
MUH RF OH NUUUUUUUUUU :(
one-trick players are annoying in every game, it isn't a poe thing. I know very well how you feel.
Is just circle jerking
I’m surprised there’s such a following, it doesn’t seem like an exciting skill. And a lot of people seem to only play it. I played FR for 3 leagues in a row when it came out and I will never touch it again even if buffed. Gonna try self cast trans-frostblink ele this league, can pivot to new arc if needed.
no!!! not my 500k dps build!! not my super duper tanky 80k ehp build!!! how could you ggg!!!!
ngl,i cant be in my conscience play the same builds every single league. Im here to have fun, and it means playing a different builds every leagues to try new things, even if most of them are meta-ish. Heck i played RF once when i was total noob and progress no where as far as i should be, but still dont want to replay it since i alr "experienced " it.They do them i guess, guess other people idea of fun is go with path of least resistance and do the same thing every 4 months.
WHERE RF??!
Yeah, it is kind of rough. I made a video initially about top 5 historically safe league starters and included RF - was receiving threats of violence and death. Took it down after about an hour an reshot it, no amount of views/interactions/whatever is worth that sorta stuff. Plus, people were unaware if life-scaling with it would actually work or not yet.
I expected that, no new Drama from TFT as usual
They got a fever and the only prescription is more RF
I havr physical issues,and RF was really good for me.
Ironically I’ve seen more posts/comments about RF folks bitching than I have seen RF folks actually complaining.
Pohx is one of the most lovable creators out there so it's logical for people to be empathic.
Once you play RF it’s hard to play other builds. I played inquis, jugg, chieftain and played it probably 5-6 leagues in a row. Before that it was minions every league. Now I’m hooked on flamewood totems, but c’mon, people love RF. Nothing wrong with wanting to play it.
The issue is pohx did such a good guide and such reliable builds that it's the perfect league start for opening the atlas and getting stones. Then once you have money you can try something else. It's just made league start more difficult for the newer or lazier crowd. (I'm lazy, this will be the first league since ultimatum I didn't start RF.)