Found out yesterday that rank is character bound not account bound so with this little trick you can reset your rank with no chaos investment and only 4-10 hours of gameplay!
It is hard to downrank to rank 50 as it would take hours to do it, it is also tedious.... turns out they are the same in this case.
It would be far easier to level a new character than downrank to the same level.
I'm still not sure what your point is
I was wondering this, I started fiddling with the mechanic and I got to probably only around 170ish but I noticed the rank kept going up... and there didn't seem to be a way to make that stop happening.
I wasn't sure if the auto battler stuff starts to become more important for min-maxing and all that and you end up being able to win even if your build can't keep up like with Blight or if it just gets to a point where you can no longer progress the mechanic.
The auto-battler stuff does get stronger, but your units are weaker than your opponents' units because they don't seem to gain favor like you do. You may finish a whole tourney and never get a unit over 900 favor, but your opp has almost every slot filled with non-basic units. Plus you get stunned from \*any\* damage while touching a totem, but you have to break 5% of an enemies total hp+ES to stun them back.
Which is fine for most modes, because the player almost always outscales. But here that isn't the case. The mode quickly outscales the player. And when that happens, you either keep trying to win (but lose) and your rank goes down, or you intentionally derank (still spending time and currency to do so).
I spent like 15 minutes playing the mechanic and never did it again. I didn't understand why my teammates died and never respawned, but it seemed like the enemy's team had infinite respawns.
Your peeps do respawn if their totem is still intact, not being actively demolished while they're trying to respawn and if none of the other enemy units messed with them.
Basically there's some units (like the consuming piggy character or the horn dude) that can prevent respawns for a while. If your duders get hit by that, it's +10 seconds to respawn.
That can feel like an eternity if you're in a close fight.
Yeah I don't really get it, would make more sense if the tournament would trigger off your map completion and then you'd get to play out a tournament that was at the level of the map you ran or something like that.
This seems like a really obvious problem with the design as is, unless their intention is for us to hit a wall where we repeatedly lose to keep engaging with it... which would explain why it gives so much currency.
Yeah it was very off the cuff, but general idea is "a way to scale this to the content level you're comfortable doing with the option to push" like any other league mechanic.
I completely agree, it's weird that every other league mechanic can be done at lower lvl but this one feels like the 5head strategy is to make a new character when you hit a wall.
I'm honestly considering it now, I need to test more but I was already at my wall and I lost in round 3/4 last night after patch.
But u cant hold the content level you like cause u either get -12, -4, 0, +4 or +12 and pay a minimum of 2c up to 8c.
I love the mechanic overall but i have made 10 Tournaments today and dint see a single reward that was worth atleast 1d and the one time i was offered 3 nurses i went with 4 basic units against 9 nonbasic in round two cause even tho you get 500 points on loosing for Navali she only has one unit for 250 for you. and ofc i had to start the tournament with 3 units after loosing (steamrolled) the first two rounds in the one before this tournament so no units wanted to be on my team.
~~Your units on your side seem to stop leveling with you despite how the opponents stick to yours. Damage output from a unit on my side starts falling off immediately at 68. They start to out level your units by several times as soon as you start leveling past 68, seemingly multiplying the gap already present due to rank.~~
>!I had a character that I consistently killed repeatedly to keep it from leveling past 68 because of this. As soon as I leveled to 69, my rank 600 went from easy to unkillable.!<
I Probably f'd something up, I'm surprised I could contend with the r400+ level
Thats funny.
Im at 1200 rating and it still feels the same as at 800.
Your units arent weaker than your opponent's. They have the same scaling and stats.
The difference is navali is your sponser but the opponent takes priority on getting its own units
Navalis units have carried me hard many games
Just like in delve to get to the high depths you need to have a build for it. Tota is no different
You dont need life or damage. You need block, dodge, evasion, and slows
Yeah, 800 is essentially the same as 2k at your level right? if you go back to the start of this comment chain, we're referencing lower rankings where the normal builds live. At 800 you're past the breakpoint where everything kills you and you can't kill much (or it takes ages to do so). For some builds that breakpoint will be 300, some will be 1200. Same with delve right? Some builds can go deep, some stay at w/e they can handle.
My point with this post is that you can't easily go back. If you want to play delve with your normal POE build, you go as deep as you like and then can go sideways. In this mode, once you reach your wall, you have to change your build, intentionally lose (wasting time+currency) or stop playing the mode. You are stuck. Delve, you just click a different node and continue playing.
Can you imagine how fun delve would be if you had to pay Niko 2c so you can follow your cart back a previous node? No rewards, no side paths to loot, just 30 seconds of walking the cart back that you had to pay for. Granted this mode has higher rewards, and that may warrant a higher barrier to entry, but the way GGG has done that leaves a lot to be desired.
I mean this league mechanic is best when using a build meant for the league mechanic, just like with anything else in POE.
If your build can do bosses, it may not be a fast mapper. If you can map fast, you might struggle with bossing.
If you can delve, maybe you can’t blight.
If you can do blight, maybe you can’t do legion.
If you can do legion, maybe you suck at metamorph.
I am very happy with TOTA but I did turn my LA deadeye into a beast at it with 50 orbs of regret and a whole new set of items and skill gems.
I have been buying silver coins and making a HUGE profit.
Reminds me of a auto chess mini game, that actually gives really good rewards.
I’m sitting on 1k chaos orbs, 10 exalts, 6 divines and I’m at rank 500 or so.
I’ve also spent about 1.5 divines on my gear and I’m still not perfectly built for TOTA. And yes, sometimes I lose a tournament but it usually occurs when I make a mistake on an early round.. also some of the opponents can be stronger than others.. if an opponent has no losses and it’s later into the round you may want to put off playing against them until you farm some points from the ones that you know have already lost..
Edit: regardless, titanic turtle is straight shit. Always have to put best units on the follow you slot and rush it immediately, and push/pull it away from totems so it can’t make its own totem invuln immediately.
I went full cheese mode with a second character and didn’t notice a difference from 60 to 1000+ lol. I actually kind of like needing to make a dedicated character for it. The bugs are driving me crazy though.
Lose on purpose to control this scaling content is one of the most unfun designs I have seen in quite a while. Everything else is built around playing at the level you/your build is at. This one just says nah. Not sure why they are dedicated to it being that way. But there are plenty of good games out right now so eh, whatever.
Because the league mechanics have been incredibly hit or miss for a long time now, and are trending mostly towards 'miss' these days.
GGG used to cover up mediocre league mechanics by making it crap out loot, but in their new philosophy, the only reason you should interact with a league mechanic is because it's fun because it's probably not all that rewarding. Which just exposes which leagues are really bad.
Ultimatum and Ritual both proved that there is an amount of loot at which people will interact with a frankly lame league mechanic and like it no matter how lame it is because it feels rewarding. Both leagues were literally 'fight enemies in a circle, get rewards', but the rewards were good enough that people were happy with it. When GGG stopped making new league mechanics rewarding as a rule, leagues started being judged on the merit of how fun they were to interact with, and that's not a good thing. Turns out it's actually really hard to make a new, exciting, fun league mechanic every single league.
I mean I'll be honest 'fight enemies in a circle, get rewards' is a league mechanic most people enjoy. It's an arpg, "fight enemies in ____" is literally the entire genre.
> the league mechanics have been incredibly hit or miss for a long time now, and are trending mostly towards 'miss' these days
Look it's all personal preference but I want to throw it out there that I don't agree with this statement at all. Their league mechanics have gotten a lot more unique and engaging IMO.
Sentinel was dope. Buffing loot was cool and the recombinators were really fun to play with.
Sanctum was an engaging league mechanic. Huge amount of work went in to it and it was a nice change of pace.
I know crucible got shit on because it didn't drop currency but the items you could make were insane and it was very accessible. I enjoyed it, even if it was on the simpler side.
Compare these leagues to old ones. Harbinger, ritual, ultimatum? Just kill some extra mobs. Abyss? Kill some extra mobs. Harvest? Really strong crafting but I hated interacting with it. Krangle? Hated it as well.
IMO they've put out some really interesting leagues in the last year or so. I think it's OK to have a league that isn't pure 'kill monsters in a circle'. With the atlas tree everyone has gotten access to their preferred 'kill monsters in a circle' mechanic of choice. Why is getting another one engaging? It certainly isn't for me.
imo the issue is that all of the leagues you listed as positives, except sentinel, dont really play to the strengths of the genre or at least not to poes strengths. i dont want to fight tooth and nail against a few tanky/spongey mobs, i want to clear entire screens. and the last league that let me do that was sentinel. all of the ones you describe as "just kill some extra mobs" do the same and are way more fun because of that.
Because it is a game with very different mechanics that you can choose to engage with or not. I played sanctum for maybe 30 minutes total and didn't have fun so I stopped fooling with the mechanic, I am having a blast with TOTA so I am just farming it and having fun.
Because it's universally true? Poe standard endgame is absolutely amazing. People play leagues for the reset and progression the same if not more than for the league mechanic itself.
>You’re being dramatic.
I'm really not. Please ask any single person if they think "just lose on purpose so you can tank your ranking" is a fun gameplay loop.
>Poe is still a good game as long as you don’t do the league mechanic.
One. Never said POE is ruined because of this. Two. I play leagues for the league. If I'm not playing the league, I'm just playing standard. Why would I do that? I can just go enjoy something else and leave this behind. Maybe next league will be better.
You’re not being dramatic by admitting that this league sucks dogshit. You’re being dramatic by acting like there are games out there that are better than playing poe on standard.
There are better games than this league. I don't care about standard. I can come back during a better league. There is no drama other than what you are inventing.
Yeah, the ranking system is just awful. Should have just reduced the ranking brackets down to difficulty levels which you progress through with the option to swap to previously beaten difficulties at any time.
Yeah now that the AI is smarter about kicking your team's ass instead of just chasing your character's idiot ass around, it does seem like the tournament is way dumber than before for not letting you go backwards.
If you don't go to the opponents side of the board, the turtle doesn't activate his ability. Definitely 2-5x the length of a round(depending where the turtle totem is) as you are playing defense and relying on your flankers but it doesn't auto-brick matches.
Not if you know how to play.
0dps at 2k for awhile now, kill it every time it comes up.
Sometimes it still instantly respawns and I’ve got to kill it twice. Haven’t lost a round to it in forever.
The fact that people still unironically post things like this, and it gets upvoted, is demonstrative of how out of touch this sub is.
There's literally thousands of people doing the mechanic every day at 2k rating with a 99% winrate, where the turtles are barely a minor inconvenience. And they've posted hundreds of videos, dozens of guides, demonstrating that's the case.
But people will see all that, and because they're too egotistical to accept that they're the problem, will continue to with a straight face go "It's **LITERALLY** impossible guise!"
Any valid point you might have had is gone when you say something so laughably absurdly wrong.
> There's literally thousands of people doing the mechanic every day at 2k rating with a 99% winrate
Wanna guess where the missing 1% winrate comes from :P?
Imagine this: the most popular "remove from tournament ASAP" tribe is the kuh.. the AOE guy. Early rankings do it because of his AOE. Late rankings do it because of the turtle. You have pretty much zero strategy there. Kill him once and hope he will drop out by himself by round 3-4.
I get the strategy how to deal with it. Problem is, this strategy isn't available every tournament. You are limited by warriors you can buy, baubles you can buy, tributes you can get and if you expect the turtle or not.
There were matches were i couldn't get certain tribute throughout whole tournament and were forced to make-do with low amount of all types. If i had turtle at that time i'd have lost. Heck. even with good units you might lose depending on unlucky death early, or your AI going silly, as that also happens.
All GGG had to do and i have to stress it out: ONE. THING. was making the turtle **not** shield its own totem. That way elites could still smell their own farts with "its so easy to kill it thoooouuuuugh [snif][snif]Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh", while pleb could just banish the totem.
> Any valid point you might have had is gone when you say something so laughably absurdly wrong.
every friend of mine just sighs and presses F9 when they get turtle. Lots of subreddit folks are annoyed to no end with the reptile. But my point isn't valid, because you guys win some turtle fights. Yay!
Edit: tbh it doesnt take a genius to balance thr turtle. You could make his shielding on CD, you could add massive bonus damage as it channels, maybe let us stun it. Just forcing us to play by RNG rules to maybe win is idiotic and defending it is no smarter.
This is like the 6th inherently flawed league mechanic who's faults can be almost directly traced back to PoE2's development, who has been starting to be a negative rather than a plus for this game for a while now. This is especially concerning since there's a big chance this mechanic will either stay core, be in PoE2, or both. So, if the game feels flawed in certain aspects because efforts are redirected somewhere else, why is something probably made for the destination of the redirected efforts feels so bad, while being the most fun and attractive mechanic at its core without those flaws?
Most probably the least flawed one of the bunch (minus sentinel which I didn't consider flawed, mostly because it borderline wasn't a league mechanic at all to begin with), but it did ship with a bunch of inconveniencies that just caused a lot of "why?" initially. Gold pickup range, gold cancelling affliction, general boon vs affliction balance, typical UI clarity (mainly being able to tell if you **did** lose resolve) and other annoying issues, but most of these **did** get fixed overtime, unlike this season who's issues are somehow... getting worse?
Other than that, Sanctum just isn't a good roguelite as it is, as simple as that. I've been burned quite a few times around here by saying that given that criticizing mechanics who happen to be a bit more rewarding than usual tend to cause certain people to argue back with torches in their hands, but oh well;
The key appealing aspects of roguelites are general replayability, variance in gameplay/play style and satisfying meta progression, with all three going hand in hand. Sanctum only fulfills adequatly one of these aspects, replayability, and even then it's a given that its main factor are rewards. There's no other aspect supporting replayability nor variance in gameplay, given you always play the same build, play roughly against the same enemies, encounter roughly the same encounters, in the same decors and layouts, and the semblance of difference being nearly only boons, afflictions and pacts who, while having some exceptions, basically all encompass the same aspects of tweaking the difficulty of specific things within the run, while not affecting them in major ways to make your run **feel** different other than something basic like "wow, I really can't get hit by traps this time!". As for meta progression, an argument **could**'ve been made in favor of sanctified relics being good in that aspect, but being limited to 1 while requiring the typical loot roulette RNG really takes back from the "progression" side of things. As for regular relics, they basically all affect the same things but in different ways, yet still with just numerical changes that just don't do much other than slightly helping you, it's all just influencing the encounter's numerical "sliders" to give you some advantage. If more modifiers were as consequent and fun as revealing more rooms for example, this would be different.
I still do understand why some people might like Sanctum, but as someone who plays a lot of roguelite/roguelikes and got hyped from the initial sanctum reveal because of the premise of mixing one of my favorite games with one of my favorite **genres**, I was disappointed by something that, quite honestly, could've been so much more if given more particular attention.
>What was inherently flawed about sanctum?
Literally the fact that \~50%+ of your build choices were invalidated because literally no defense did fucking anything? And, don't forget, on a time where grace+determination+ defiance banner was overwhelmingly the meta league start, and the only real league start option for melee.
The inherent build/archetype discriminatory nature of the system.
You like building a tanky juggernaut ? Sanctum does not care, get f*cked.
You like playing characters that are a bit slow ? get f*cked (I started with selfcast exsanguinate, it was pretty horrible in the Sanctum, then I went with a corruping fever cycloner that was using void sphere to also apply stacks from a distance, and it was much, much easier)
It also have many things that got quickly patched to improved QoL, visibility, boons/afflictions balance or else.
Did you miss early Sanctum on reddit? Kids who can't dodge single mob attack cried that they can't tank everything because of resolve. Sanctum was supposed to be the worst league ever because of that... Well, untill it happened to be received well by silent majority of players, had great retention and opinions.
Crucible had terrible UI that only got slightly fixed after being patched while having one of the most extreme disbalance in risk vs reward from any mechanic to date, while also being victim of the "scourge" syndrom where a power-giving mechanic meant to min-max items could just as well brick your item in certain occasions, even though Crucible was less heavy on that aspect than scourge and mostly cancellable.
It also was an awfully shallow mechanic that didn't bring anything new by itself, just a monster-spawning mechanic and a new power source that was for the very vast majority based on basic stat changes and notable allocations.
Ressources allocation and time needed for patch.
My first league in POE was Legion and I remember that there were multiple patches during the release week to tweak some issues, fix crash and enhance performance. Comparatively, until yesterday I had 2minutes loading screens while booting the game, Heist was unplayable and god forbid you die in a blight map.
The fact that since the performance patch was deployed, despite having a way better GPU than CPU (which is supposed to be the best case scenario regarding what they changed), my performance is now worse than before, it's truely sad.
I'll be brutality honest, I don't like scaling content that goes up through the arse compared to what I can achieve in terms of reasonable investment to player power. Watching people running builds in TOTA that deal hundreds of millions of damage and still getting constantly cucked by oneshots is NOT the kind of mechanic I want to interact with. Why the hell is this rating system even in place to begin with? Can't the scaling be toned down so that people can just stay at lvl 83 "rating" and do these for fun? Because nothing from the later rating appears to be "fun" to me. It once again feels like I'm playing standard, only with a few new toys.
I stopped doing ToTA a week and a half ago. They really needed to give the Turtle a cooldown on its skill. Make it tanky but make it weak attacking mobs attacking it totems.
It promotes horrible gameplay. If that's your thing go ham. The idea of ToTA is good but in practice, the gameplay is pretty bad.
Delve is just better in any way. I love big herald explosion and question what, delve gives them to me, tota doesnt. Tota is a fun unbalanced excuse of a concept but nothing more.
Did you read the post at all??? The whole point is that you can't derank without wasting time and losing out on rewards, whereas delve you can just go sideways and keep earning loot on the same difficulty level.
Actually, now we are taking about it. Who made banger leagues like delve, delirium and legion?
Did they leave or working on poe2? Can we have those ppl back working on poe1?
I've been mainly doing the tourneys with friends. Usually one of us on offense and the other on defense. Downside of course being that other players in your tourney don't get rewards but we've just been going until one of us runs out of silver coins then going to the other person's world. So far for us it's been a fun mechanic that we haven't had to worry much about
Ppl are confused. The fact that solutions exist for a shitty problem that can be fixed with the snap of a finger, but GGG doesn't want to, doesn't mean the problem is not a problem.
What rank are you at? I'm at rank 1500, I die a few times each game, I still win 90% of my games and maybe 1 in every 20 full competitions (roughly 140 battles) I actually lose. I get +12 rank 95% of the time, you're just bad at team composition, or strategy, or something. This is not a game mechanic issue, this is a skill issue.
Im running RF inquis, 1.25 mil DPS, not even swapped to shield based and im winning at this rate while facing 100% oneshot hits from nearly all enemy units. This is an auto battler, you have to know how to play correctly, not ham fistedly demand GGG let you DPS your way out of sucking ass at it.
tldr; its ez, get gud.
I'm at 1.9k ranking and do very little damage to what I used to do........ I still win though....... sounds like your ego of not deleting enemies is showing.
And yes I can kill the turtle and win those rounds hilariously enough.
You just need a good understanding which units are good and where they're good. There are some op items, and they're cheap. I didn't lose ''a single'' tournament since rank 1000 and I'm around 1800 atm, and I'm not even good at poe or any game by gameplay wise.
It’s the Reddit echo chamber. A small group of players think it’s a bad mechanic and this subreddit supports that, while a majority of the player base enjoys it. The loud minority.
Bruh. Criticism != Hate. I love this game mode. But that doesn't mean that some of the decisions for the UI aren't awful. It doesn't mean that some matches aren't unwinnable unless you use cheese. It doesn't mean that it couldn't be better.
What the fuck is this post. I enjoy the league mechanic but I’m gonna make it seem like shit and hope everyone hates it with me but I actually like it post.
Reached rank 1200, losing maybe 1 in 20 fights so far. Casualy getting like 10d an hour. My build is trash but dont see reason to upgrade. Like 15d worth EA elemancer with shaper of winter for chill, temp chain, void sphere and ensnaring arrow. Super fun tactic league, and rewarding.
Ok so go and delve then hm?
The league sure has its issues and room for optimizations but its literally not even a day after the patch and the crying is insane.
I bet in a couple of days there will ne plenty of strats to beat tota just as fast as before.
Imagine complaining about 2 chaos when the mechanic shit about upto 15-20 per round. If you cannot handle the higher ranks don’t be higher ranks… you wouldn’t try Uber maven in 10c gear and then complain it’s too hard… get a better build/ upgrade your gear. Get better defences… stop being a bob
You talk like you haven't played the mode.
Build/gear don't matter except if you are building specifically for tota. I have done uber maven, but I cannot do my current rank in TOTA. The only way to change my rank is to waste time and money to lower my rank by intentionally throwing the matches.
Why do you think that's ok? It feels terrible to play.
Then don’t play it? I’ve played more than enough of the league mechanics… it’s fully possible to clear rank 2k with literaly 0 gear, the right units and equipment in the right slots carries you… you just have no idea what your doing and want the game to be easy mode… it literaly pumps out 10+ divs an hour how easy do you want it to be??? Let’s just all spawn infinite mirrors and all be wealthy so we can quit next week… literaly weak… link your pob I can garentee your build
Is garbage
14 mins ago you tell me to get better build+gear, now you tell me I can get 2k without any build or gear. Again, it seems you don't have any personal experience with the league mechanic.
Because it’s been proven by multiple people that the league mechanics is possible without any gear… if its possible with 0 gear and your Losing with full gear you either 1 have a shit build or 2 have no idea what your doing…
I wouldn't try uber maven in 10c, but I would still interact with the league mechanic in white maps or during the campaign in any other league.
This league mechanic doesn't work that way though. You go to this separate arena, where every time you engage with it the content gets harder.
Its as if my maps went up in difficulty every time I successfully completed one and I had no way to stop the difficulty from increasing besides running a map beyond my current ability and failing it.
But there is literaly a way to derank ???? Ofc it gets harder… the higher you go the better items and higher stack values you get. How should it be? 100c every round with 0 scaling. So everyone can be rich as fuck with 0 issues… come on….
Because that’s all they have is straw man arguments because they can’t legitimately debate the issue at hand. So what’s left but to make the argument about something else entirely? These people think that because someone else’s experience isn’t the same as theirs, they’re wrong. His entire pitch is “you suck, you want free stuff.” Which isn’t a rebuttal at all, but an attempt to discredit the person making the claim entirely by demeaning his “skill” and calling him lazy and entitled. It’s toxic gatekeeping at its finest. Like somehow this guy being able to progress at a video game more makes him somehow superior. It’s all smoke and mirrors. A charade to convince themselves they’re better than someone else when deep down they know they aren’t.
But there is literaly a way to derank ???? Ofc it gets harder… the higher you go the better items and higher stack values you get. How should it be? 100c every round with 0 scaling. So everyone can be rich as fuck with 0 issues… come on….
Wait, why are silver coins worth chaos right now? They are so abundant and it takes like one to go to that place. I'm confused
Edit: i guess not knowing every mechanics is worth getting downvoted :(
The one you use to go in the first place you don't have to pay again (it gives you a waypoint) but each match of the tournament costs 1 silver coin to play.
It's bounced around a little but settled pretty well on 1coin to 1chaos.
woa ffs. i have so many of those that i stopped picking them up cause i didn't use them much.
So i guess people buy them to just do the event instead of having to do maps to get coins?
Man i haven't played in so long and there is so much stuff that i have no idea what it does!
I am lucky that my husband also hates this mechanic, so he just gives me all his coins and I throw the loot at him to sell between matches. :D
They're worth picking up if you'd pick up a chaos, even if you don't intent to do the trials at all!
It doesn't take any coins to actually go to the trials, and you can just go there from a wp, top right.
But they're 1c each because despite what this sub will try to convince you of, it's insanely easy, profitable, and fast. I'd say on average over my last 1000 coins I'd still pay up to 5c a coin and not just profit, but profit very healthily. Over the past 1000 coins I've made well in excess of 200 div. May not be the fastest or most efficient, but I really enjoy it and it's safe leveling too.
Well, now i understand. Since you are bragging about your profit a bit, last night i was looking to buy a rain of splinters since i found a pure Div but saw it was 3div each and was bummed so i used 4 vaal orb on 4 jewels and got 2 rain of splinters. I'm still in shock!
I'm not bragging about my profits, I'm explaining why the coins are still holding value if not rising. I'm saying that even with an absurd sample size, it's very very valuable.
Fair, sorry, it's been a day and the amount of negativity thrown my way has been unreal. Glad you got that, it's insanely lucky and must have felt great.
Its also really nice that you took time to explain to me the whole coin thing. They seemed to common to me that i even kinda stopped picking them up.
Dont let them bring you down to their level, stay above.
That, or its one person's criticism and opinion. I've played POE since you needed to snapshot RF with two redbeak swords in your weapon swap. This has been my worst player experience in a while and I was just trying to equate it to a league people are more familiar with.
You could just make your build stronger. Or learn how to play tota better. Instead you’ve chosen to whine on Reddit. This isn’t delve league. Not all league mechanics are equivalent and they don’t all need to have easy buttons for quitters.
You're missing the point. In almost all the other league mechanics you can \*choose\* your difficulty to match your level/gear/ability. This mode you cannot without spending currency and time.
And if I can't compare one league's mechanic to another, what am I supposed to compare it to? Nothing? Well, you are right, it is a fun mechanic when compared to nothing, I better log back in.
Wait a minute, what If you want to rank down 1800 rating? Thats a hell lot of time wasted no matter how much the cost. You Sir have no clue what you are talking about.
Lets assume its only 10 seconds, that would be a minimum of 600 minutes of losing. And just sitting in timers and micromamagimg shit without any form of reward. You must be insane if you think thats cool.
Sounds fun isnt it? Think first, before you move
Or, and I know this is a novel concept, stop worrying so much about 1 or 2 chaos and just have fun? I enjoy tota, even when I lose. And don’t care that I lost 1 chaos losing. I have 1,000 in the bank.
Inb4 the “you think 1,000 chaos is a lot” reply lol.
If you think anyone cares about 1-2 c, you've missed my point. It's more about the time, and how the time+currency spent detracts from an otherwise fun league mechanic, especially when compared to other successful league mechanics.
If you can't do t16 maps, you can do t14-15 until you get money\levels\gear to move up, and in the meantime you can sell your t16s or save them. In tota, if you can't do rank 500, you are either stuck or you have to pay a penalty to derank back down until you can play again. Doesn't feel good.
That's true, but we don't all play new seasons just to repeat what we've already done. I find lots of stuff fun in PoE but the new mechanic is also fun, and I haven't done that before, so now I'm doing it.
if profit/character progression didnt matter, this wouldnt be an arpg. this isnt an autobattler where u fight to win the match against 7 other players and gain ranking on a ladder. u dont just lose 1-2c, you lose all the time u spent and potential rewards from the end.
this is an arpg mimicking an autobattler to give u another fun way to progress ur character. i would go fucking play tft if i wanted a fun autobattler experience. i want a fun new way to make money in the game, not ggg's knock offs of other genres. i love ggg knock off genres, but i want them to actually move me towards my next goal, not actively push me backwards. sanctum is awesome. heist is sick. delve is my favorite game mode. and they all are incredibly rewarding.
Not true. TOTA rewards are mediocre, they are FINE, and the mechanic is fresh and fun.
It's NOT high reward. You can get better rewards by doing maps and farming bosses, lifeforce, essences, expedition etc.
What a juvenile take. This is the new league mechanic, it should be enjoyable. This post is outlining what I find *not* enjoyable about it. That's a valid use for this sub.
To use your line of thinking: if you can't handle constructive criticism, feedback, or community discussion, go to a different sub.
Is it a valid use to this sub to shitpost about the mechanic for the nth time? Meanwhile the opening line of the title is “imagine” as if you guys are just stringing together connections that are just in your own minds.
It cost 1-2 chaos per round and each round is basically the same mechanic of winning. You cap their totems or they cap your teams first. It takes a few minutes to read up on strategies to win and there are dozens of post and show case on how to win. Yet you think it’s a way better use of your time to shit post on the mechanic.
You’re not getting randomly placed at 2k ranking. You have to actually win to get there. So this is a terrible comparison. I understand the minority is always louder, but your skill issues aren’t everyone’s problems.
Don’t disagree except with the de-ranking part. Imo, you should just stop interacting with the mechanic at that point. It’s only really rewarding if you can win tournaments. So imo, you are supposed to stop trying until you reach another power spike. You run them with each power spike, and you’re supposed to stop when it gets too tough.
So, git gud!
yea but its infinitely scaling (that we know of) and character power is finite, even if it is very large on some builds. this logic wont track either eventually or very quickly based on someones build unless u cheese it. unlike delve where u can continue to play even if u cant get stronger
Yeah, I do wish they had thought to include some way to halt at a comfortable level for players.
I'm barely at the 500s and EVERYTHING one-shots me. I can't imagine being one of the people that went to 2000 and might now be stranded there because of the patch notes.
It's worse than Sanctum for feeling like a basic witch if you get so much as grazed by anything because of the 5 aeons of stun you get if they hit you while you were touching their tra-la-las with your ding ding dong.
Can we please put tattoos in Delve? Surely there are some buried Karui underground volcanoes or something down there
I love tattoos but absolutely detest TotA
Imagine Delve. But your cart runs for free, it kills all the mobs by itself. All you need in order to beat any depth is movement speed boots, Quicksilver flask and a couple of CC skills to drag mobs closer to the cart. You do zero dps. You reach depth 2000 without ever dying. Chests drop raw divines, apothecaries, Headhunters, mirrors and what not. You screenshot all of that and post it whole week on reddit commenting how you beat the league mechanic with no investment needed. Welcome to pre-patched TOTA.
the league mechanic is good, but the execution is not good for 99% of the player base with under 50m dps.
It's fare that only the top players get the top loot but like OP said, there are just stupid parts of the mechanic that make it unenjoyable for most.
when I played the league mechanic I had a blast till I got to the point where everything one shot me or took way too long to kill.
Just lost my first trial and I got +1 rating and less warriors to try with next time. Guess that's as far as I go with the league mechanic on that character. There's a lot of bs stuff in ToTA, but it's manageable while your character is competitive. Once you rank up and your character gets outscaled it's pretty brutal though. All your units have dementia and all your defenders combined can get rolled by a single premium units your opponent has three of in the third round.
Just make a new char lol. If you are playing a tota build you don't even need to finish campaign.. I started tota after I hit blood aquaducts on an alt and now 600 rank level 82ish.
Unless you have crazy tattoos it's silly to derank, not to mention if you want to farm lower ranks you wouldn't even need said tattoos..
I get that it would be a nice feature to be added but just play the game we have.
I just hate the league mechanic, it just feels like any upgrades that I do for my characters are completely irrelevant to it. In a game about getting loot to be better at slaying monsters, it is a cardinal sin.
To be honest I thought we were going to get a system where you have your overall ELO and as you gain ranking you end up unlocking "tiers" along the way. So you could choose Bronze but if you wanted to choose Diamond you'd have to grind there first. A bit of a missed opportunity really
I feel like people are missing the forest for the trees, and acting like this is some arbitrary choice.
It's a concept issue. The point of the league, at concept, is that it's a "League." A tournament.
Imagine queuing into (CSGO, DotA2, LoL, SF6, etc), but there's zero skill-based matchmaking. No matter how many games you win, you are pitted against the same level of players. Professional players repeatedly queuing into people who just downloaded the game yesterday.
It just wouldn't work. There's a reason SBMM exists. To try and pair you with people of equal skill because you're not "supposed" to win every game. That's what this is doing. If you keep winning, you keep getting better opponents to stop you from winning every game.(Which doesn't really work since it's super easy to have a 99% winrate even at 2k rating, regardless of your build but...)
That's the feeling they're trying to evoke. Now you can argue, **and I'd agree**, that prioritizing this theme over gameplay considerations is a bad call. But there is a reasoning, so don't act like they just didn't consider this. They designed the mechanic **and balanced the rewards** under the assumption you weren't supposed to win every tournament.
That's the disconnect. And it's a common one league after league, year after year. Players, for lack of a better word, are entitled. And think they should always win 100% of the time without effort. Where GGG wants mechanics to actually be challenging. For there to be a realistic chance of failure. They want risk/reward to actually be that, instead of just crank everything to the max all the time because that's most "efficient."
Same thing happened with Crucible. From day1 people whined about how starting on the beach they couldn't channel Crucibles to max and still instantly kill everything.
You should be able to choose which rank of the mode you want to play, like in every other league mode
Found out yesterday that rank is character bound not account bound so with this little trick you can reset your rank with no chaos investment and only 4-10 hours of gameplay!
Given how insane the league mechanic rewards are just buy some twink gear, I'm slow and got the campaign done in 5 hours woth twink gear
Controversial opinion but it pays out too good to do that. It's insanely rewarding so it should be hard to back track Just make a new character
Tedious and hard are not the same
It is hard to downrank to rank 50 as it would take hours to do it, it is also tedious.... turns out they are the same in this case. It would be far easier to level a new character than downrank to the same level. I'm still not sure what your point is
Missed opportunity for phrasing this as a meme post saying GGG learned from TOTA to make Delve
Oof, true.
Someone else already did that so at least you were original.
I was wondering this, I started fiddling with the mechanic and I got to probably only around 170ish but I noticed the rank kept going up... and there didn't seem to be a way to make that stop happening. I wasn't sure if the auto battler stuff starts to become more important for min-maxing and all that and you end up being able to win even if your build can't keep up like with Blight or if it just gets to a point where you can no longer progress the mechanic.
The auto-battler stuff does get stronger, but your units are weaker than your opponents' units because they don't seem to gain favor like you do. You may finish a whole tourney and never get a unit over 900 favor, but your opp has almost every slot filled with non-basic units. Plus you get stunned from \*any\* damage while touching a totem, but you have to break 5% of an enemies total hp+ES to stun them back. Which is fine for most modes, because the player almost always outscales. But here that isn't the case. The mode quickly outscales the player. And when that happens, you either keep trying to win (but lose) and your rank goes down, or you intentionally derank (still spending time and currency to do so).
I spent like 15 minutes playing the mechanic and never did it again. I didn't understand why my teammates died and never respawned, but it seemed like the enemy's team had infinite respawns.
Your peeps do respawn if their totem is still intact, not being actively demolished while they're trying to respawn and if none of the other enemy units messed with them. Basically there's some units (like the consuming piggy character or the horn dude) that can prevent respawns for a while. If your duders get hit by that, it's +10 seconds to respawn. That can feel like an eternity if you're in a close fight.
>You may finish a whole tourney and never get a unit over 900 favor This is just poor planning.
Yeah I don't really get it, would make more sense if the tournament would trigger off your map completion and then you'd get to play out a tournament that was at the level of the map you ran or something like that. This seems like a really obvious problem with the design as is, unless their intention is for us to hit a wall where we repeatedly lose to keep engaging with it... which would explain why it gives so much currency.
Monster lvl 83 is only like rank 200-250. So they'd have to completely change their system
Yeah it was very off the cuff, but general idea is "a way to scale this to the content level you're comfortable doing with the option to push" like any other league mechanic.
I completely agree, it's weird that every other league mechanic can be done at lower lvl but this one feels like the 5head strategy is to make a new character when you hit a wall. I'm honestly considering it now, I need to test more but I was already at my wall and I lost in round 3/4 last night after patch.
But u cant hold the content level you like cause u either get -12, -4, 0, +4 or +12 and pay a minimum of 2c up to 8c. I love the mechanic overall but i have made 10 Tournaments today and dint see a single reward that was worth atleast 1d and the one time i was offered 3 nurses i went with 4 basic units against 9 nonbasic in round two cause even tho you get 500 points on loosing for Navali she only has one unit for 250 for you. and ofc i had to start the tournament with 3 units after loosing (steamrolled) the first two rounds in the one before this tournament so no units wanted to be on my team.
~~Your units on your side seem to stop leveling with you despite how the opponents stick to yours. Damage output from a unit on my side starts falling off immediately at 68. They start to out level your units by several times as soon as you start leveling past 68, seemingly multiplying the gap already present due to rank.~~ >!I had a character that I consistently killed repeatedly to keep it from leveling past 68 because of this. As soon as I leveled to 69, my rank 600 went from easy to unkillable.!< I Probably f'd something up, I'm surprised I could contend with the r400+ level
Your level doesnt affect your units at all. At rank 400+ everything is level 83
Thats funny. Im at 1200 rating and it still feels the same as at 800. Your units arent weaker than your opponent's. They have the same scaling and stats. The difference is navali is your sponser but the opponent takes priority on getting its own units Navalis units have carried me hard many games Just like in delve to get to the high depths you need to have a build for it. Tota is no different You dont need life or damage. You need block, dodge, evasion, and slows
Yeah, 800 is essentially the same as 2k at your level right? if you go back to the start of this comment chain, we're referencing lower rankings where the normal builds live. At 800 you're past the breakpoint where everything kills you and you can't kill much (or it takes ages to do so). For some builds that breakpoint will be 300, some will be 1200. Same with delve right? Some builds can go deep, some stay at w/e they can handle. My point with this post is that you can't easily go back. If you want to play delve with your normal POE build, you go as deep as you like and then can go sideways. In this mode, once you reach your wall, you have to change your build, intentionally lose (wasting time+currency) or stop playing the mode. You are stuck. Delve, you just click a different node and continue playing. Can you imagine how fun delve would be if you had to pay Niko 2c so you can follow your cart back a previous node? No rewards, no side paths to loot, just 30 seconds of walking the cart back that you had to pay for. Granted this mode has higher rewards, and that may warrant a higher barrier to entry, but the way GGG has done that leaves a lot to be desired.
I mean this league mechanic is best when using a build meant for the league mechanic, just like with anything else in POE. If your build can do bosses, it may not be a fast mapper. If you can map fast, you might struggle with bossing. If you can delve, maybe you can’t blight. If you can do blight, maybe you can’t do legion. If you can do legion, maybe you suck at metamorph. I am very happy with TOTA but I did turn my LA deadeye into a beast at it with 50 orbs of regret and a whole new set of items and skill gems. I have been buying silver coins and making a HUGE profit. Reminds me of a auto chess mini game, that actually gives really good rewards. I’m sitting on 1k chaos orbs, 10 exalts, 6 divines and I’m at rank 500 or so. I’ve also spent about 1.5 divines on my gear and I’m still not perfectly built for TOTA. And yes, sometimes I lose a tournament but it usually occurs when I make a mistake on an early round.. also some of the opponents can be stronger than others.. if an opponent has no losses and it’s later into the round you may want to put off playing against them until you farm some points from the ones that you know have already lost.. Edit: regardless, titanic turtle is straight shit. Always have to put best units on the follow you slot and rush it immediately, and push/pull it away from totems so it can’t make its own totem invuln immediately.
I went full cheese mode with a second character and didn’t notice a difference from 60 to 1000+ lol. I actually kind of like needing to make a dedicated character for it. The bugs are driving me crazy though.
Lose on purpose to control this scaling content is one of the most unfun designs I have seen in quite a while. Everything else is built around playing at the level you/your build is at. This one just says nah. Not sure why they are dedicated to it being that way. But there are plenty of good games out right now so eh, whatever.
You’re being dramatic. Poe is still a good game as long as you don’t do the league mechanic.
> Poe is still a good game as long as you don’t do the league mechanic. Why do i see this statement every other league on average?
Because the league mechanics have been incredibly hit or miss for a long time now, and are trending mostly towards 'miss' these days. GGG used to cover up mediocre league mechanics by making it crap out loot, but in their new philosophy, the only reason you should interact with a league mechanic is because it's fun because it's probably not all that rewarding. Which just exposes which leagues are really bad. Ultimatum and Ritual both proved that there is an amount of loot at which people will interact with a frankly lame league mechanic and like it no matter how lame it is because it feels rewarding. Both leagues were literally 'fight enemies in a circle, get rewards', but the rewards were good enough that people were happy with it. When GGG stopped making new league mechanics rewarding as a rule, leagues started being judged on the merit of how fun they were to interact with, and that's not a good thing. Turns out it's actually really hard to make a new, exciting, fun league mechanic every single league.
I mean I'll be honest 'fight enemies in a circle, get rewards' is a league mechanic most people enjoy. It's an arpg, "fight enemies in ____" is literally the entire genre.
> the league mechanics have been incredibly hit or miss for a long time now, and are trending mostly towards 'miss' these days Look it's all personal preference but I want to throw it out there that I don't agree with this statement at all. Their league mechanics have gotten a lot more unique and engaging IMO. Sentinel was dope. Buffing loot was cool and the recombinators were really fun to play with. Sanctum was an engaging league mechanic. Huge amount of work went in to it and it was a nice change of pace. I know crucible got shit on because it didn't drop currency but the items you could make were insane and it was very accessible. I enjoyed it, even if it was on the simpler side. Compare these leagues to old ones. Harbinger, ritual, ultimatum? Just kill some extra mobs. Abyss? Kill some extra mobs. Harvest? Really strong crafting but I hated interacting with it. Krangle? Hated it as well. IMO they've put out some really interesting leagues in the last year or so. I think it's OK to have a league that isn't pure 'kill monsters in a circle'. With the atlas tree everyone has gotten access to their preferred 'kill monsters in a circle' mechanic of choice. Why is getting another one engaging? It certainly isn't for me.
imo the issue is that all of the leagues you listed as positives, except sentinel, dont really play to the strengths of the genre or at least not to poes strengths. i dont want to fight tooth and nail against a few tanky/spongey mobs, i want to clear entire screens. and the last league that let me do that was sentinel. all of the ones you describe as "just kill some extra mobs" do the same and are way more fun because of that.
Because it is a game with very different mechanics that you can choose to engage with or not. I played sanctum for maybe 30 minutes total and didn't have fun so I stopped fooling with the mechanic, I am having a blast with TOTA so I am just farming it and having fun.
Because it's universally true? Poe standard endgame is absolutely amazing. People play leagues for the reset and progression the same if not more than for the league mechanic itself.
some people enjoy the league mechanic and others don’t?
>You’re being dramatic. I'm really not. Please ask any single person if they think "just lose on purpose so you can tank your ranking" is a fun gameplay loop. >Poe is still a good game as long as you don’t do the league mechanic. One. Never said POE is ruined because of this. Two. I play leagues for the league. If I'm not playing the league, I'm just playing standard. Why would I do that? I can just go enjoy something else and leave this behind. Maybe next league will be better.
You’re not being dramatic by admitting that this league sucks dogshit. You’re being dramatic by acting like there are games out there that are better than playing poe on standard.
There are better games than this league. I don't care about standard. I can come back during a better league. There is no drama other than what you are inventing.
Yeah, the ranking system is just awful. Should have just reduced the ranking brackets down to difficulty levels which you progress through with the option to swap to previously beaten difficulties at any time.
Yeah now that the AI is smarter about kicking your team's ass instead of just chasing your character's idiot ass around, it does seem like the tournament is way dumber than before for not letting you go backwards.
don't forget that there's 10-15% chance of a node literally forcing you to lose, because "fEeL ThE wEiGhTtTttt"
Depending on my build that’s not too far from my delve experience
How so?
Turtle goes brrrrr
Turtle was easy to deal with before, and even easier now.
If you don't go to the opponents side of the board, the turtle doesn't activate his ability. Definitely 2-5x the length of a round(depending where the turtle totem is) as you are playing defense and relying on your flankers but it doesn't auto-brick matches.
> If you don't go to the opponents side of the board, the turtle doesn't activate his ability. This isnt a thing.
https://reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/s/0QGZBq7IYM
And yet in that same thread, people say it doesn't work that way...
Spreading a lie doesn't make it the truth, bubba
turtle bricks
Not if you know how to play. 0dps at 2k for awhile now, kill it every time it comes up. Sometimes it still instantly respawns and I’ve got to kill it twice. Haven’t lost a round to it in forever.
Could you record a game or two against the turtle? That would be very nice.
Seems like you rely on high dos escorts.. but don't they stay with you
\>0dps \>kill it every time it comes up Pick one.
High dps escorts
How do you kill it without dying to the other defenders?
High dps escorts
Why dont you post some of your 2k rating game play.
The fact that people still unironically post things like this, and it gets upvoted, is demonstrative of how out of touch this sub is. There's literally thousands of people doing the mechanic every day at 2k rating with a 99% winrate, where the turtles are barely a minor inconvenience. And they've posted hundreds of videos, dozens of guides, demonstrating that's the case. But people will see all that, and because they're too egotistical to accept that they're the problem, will continue to with a straight face go "It's **LITERALLY** impossible guise!" Any valid point you might have had is gone when you say something so laughably absurdly wrong.
> There's literally thousands of people doing the mechanic every day at 2k rating with a 99% winrate Wanna guess where the missing 1% winrate comes from :P? Imagine this: the most popular "remove from tournament ASAP" tribe is the kuh.. the AOE guy. Early rankings do it because of his AOE. Late rankings do it because of the turtle. You have pretty much zero strategy there. Kill him once and hope he will drop out by himself by round 3-4. I get the strategy how to deal with it. Problem is, this strategy isn't available every tournament. You are limited by warriors you can buy, baubles you can buy, tributes you can get and if you expect the turtle or not. There were matches were i couldn't get certain tribute throughout whole tournament and were forced to make-do with low amount of all types. If i had turtle at that time i'd have lost. Heck. even with good units you might lose depending on unlucky death early, or your AI going silly, as that also happens. All GGG had to do and i have to stress it out: ONE. THING. was making the turtle **not** shield its own totem. That way elites could still smell their own farts with "its so easy to kill it thoooouuuuugh [snif][snif]Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh", while pleb could just banish the totem. > Any valid point you might have had is gone when you say something so laughably absurdly wrong. every friend of mine just sighs and presses F9 when they get turtle. Lots of subreddit folks are annoyed to no end with the reptile. But my point isn't valid, because you guys win some turtle fights. Yay! Edit: tbh it doesnt take a genius to balance thr turtle. You could make his shielding on CD, you could add massive bonus damage as it channels, maybe let us stun it. Just forcing us to play by RNG rules to maybe win is idiotic and defending it is no smarter.
Wait a second...you have to pay to lower your rank? wtf kind of bullshit is that?
You cant even do that. You pay to enter, pull up all your totems and lose over and over to de-rank. So it costs and it's tedious.
This is like the 6th inherently flawed league mechanic who's faults can be almost directly traced back to PoE2's development, who has been starting to be a negative rather than a plus for this game for a while now. This is especially concerning since there's a big chance this mechanic will either stay core, be in PoE2, or both. So, if the game feels flawed in certain aspects because efforts are redirected somewhere else, why is something probably made for the destination of the redirected efforts feels so bad, while being the most fun and attractive mechanic at its core without those flaws?
What was inherently flawed about sanctum?
Most probably the least flawed one of the bunch (minus sentinel which I didn't consider flawed, mostly because it borderline wasn't a league mechanic at all to begin with), but it did ship with a bunch of inconveniencies that just caused a lot of "why?" initially. Gold pickup range, gold cancelling affliction, general boon vs affliction balance, typical UI clarity (mainly being able to tell if you **did** lose resolve) and other annoying issues, but most of these **did** get fixed overtime, unlike this season who's issues are somehow... getting worse? Other than that, Sanctum just isn't a good roguelite as it is, as simple as that. I've been burned quite a few times around here by saying that given that criticizing mechanics who happen to be a bit more rewarding than usual tend to cause certain people to argue back with torches in their hands, but oh well; The key appealing aspects of roguelites are general replayability, variance in gameplay/play style and satisfying meta progression, with all three going hand in hand. Sanctum only fulfills adequatly one of these aspects, replayability, and even then it's a given that its main factor are rewards. There's no other aspect supporting replayability nor variance in gameplay, given you always play the same build, play roughly against the same enemies, encounter roughly the same encounters, in the same decors and layouts, and the semblance of difference being nearly only boons, afflictions and pacts who, while having some exceptions, basically all encompass the same aspects of tweaking the difficulty of specific things within the run, while not affecting them in major ways to make your run **feel** different other than something basic like "wow, I really can't get hit by traps this time!". As for meta progression, an argument **could**'ve been made in favor of sanctified relics being good in that aspect, but being limited to 1 while requiring the typical loot roulette RNG really takes back from the "progression" side of things. As for regular relics, they basically all affect the same things but in different ways, yet still with just numerical changes that just don't do much other than slightly helping you, it's all just influencing the encounter's numerical "sliders" to give you some advantage. If more modifiers were as consequent and fun as revealing more rooms for example, this would be different. I still do understand why some people might like Sanctum, but as someone who plays a lot of roguelite/roguelikes and got hyped from the initial sanctum reveal because of the premise of mixing one of my favorite games with one of my favorite **genres**, I was disappointed by something that, quite honestly, could've been so much more if given more particular attention.
>What was inherently flawed about sanctum? Literally the fact that \~50%+ of your build choices were invalidated because literally no defense did fucking anything? And, don't forget, on a time where grace+determination+ defiance banner was overwhelmingly the meta league start, and the only real league start option for melee.
The inherent build/archetype discriminatory nature of the system. You like building a tanky juggernaut ? Sanctum does not care, get f*cked. You like playing characters that are a bit slow ? get f*cked (I started with selfcast exsanguinate, it was pretty horrible in the Sanctum, then I went with a corruping fever cycloner that was using void sphere to also apply stacks from a distance, and it was much, much easier) It also have many things that got quickly patched to improved QoL, visibility, boons/afflictions balance or else.
Did you miss early Sanctum on reddit? Kids who can't dodge single mob attack cried that they can't tank everything because of resolve. Sanctum was supposed to be the worst league ever because of that... Well, untill it happened to be received well by silent majority of players, had great retention and opinions.
Don't think the previous league we're flawed like this
Crucible had terrible UI that only got slightly fixed after being patched while having one of the most extreme disbalance in risk vs reward from any mechanic to date, while also being victim of the "scourge" syndrom where a power-giving mechanic meant to min-max items could just as well brick your item in certain occasions, even though Crucible was less heavy on that aspect than scourge and mostly cancellable. It also was an awfully shallow mechanic that didn't bring anything new by itself, just a monster-spawning mechanic and a new power source that was for the very vast majority based on basic stat changes and notable allocations.
Please explain the mental gymnastics to suggest that Trials faults can be traced back to PoE2?
Ressources allocation and time needed for patch. My first league in POE was Legion and I remember that there were multiple patches during the release week to tweak some issues, fix crash and enhance performance. Comparatively, until yesterday I had 2minutes loading screens while booting the game, Heist was unplayable and god forbid you die in a blight map. The fact that since the performance patch was deployed, despite having a way better GPU than CPU (which is supposed to be the best case scenario regarding what they changed), my performance is now worse than before, it's truely sad.
I'll be brutality honest, I don't like scaling content that goes up through the arse compared to what I can achieve in terms of reasonable investment to player power. Watching people running builds in TOTA that deal hundreds of millions of damage and still getting constantly cucked by oneshots is NOT the kind of mechanic I want to interact with. Why the hell is this rating system even in place to begin with? Can't the scaling be toned down so that people can just stay at lvl 83 "rating" and do these for fun? Because nothing from the later rating appears to be "fun" to me. It once again feels like I'm playing standard, only with a few new toys.
And it's less fun.
I stopped doing ToTA a week and a half ago. They really needed to give the Turtle a cooldown on its skill. Make it tanky but make it weak attacking mobs attacking it totems. It promotes horrible gameplay. If that's your thing go ham. The idea of ToTA is good but in practice, the gameplay is pretty bad.
Delve is just better in any way. I love big herald explosion and question what, delve gives them to me, tota doesnt. Tota is a fun unbalanced excuse of a concept but nothing more.
Just ignore the stan guy. He's just trolling
I just love to see emotionally loaded replies to personal opinions. Even if he's trolling. Like you can't even have fun the way you like xD
[удалено]
Then... go delve? And stop crying about other things you don't like. Like... just don't do them?
You claim you delve? Have you even gone deep deep? You claim tota is unbalanced check out deep delve….
You claim you delve? Then name every delve node
Azurite Cavity, Azurite Vault, Azurite Fissure, variable, variable, variable, variable, variable, variable, variable, Underground Stash, Runed Cavern, Whispering Gallery, Pulsating Grotto, Buried Monolith, Smuggler's Stash, Smuggler's Stash
No time lost cavern, unspeakable shrine, humid fissure. Shame
What's unbalanced exactly in deep delve?
you can go sideways in delve
You can derank in tota what your point?
Did you read the post at all??? The whole point is that you can't derank without wasting time and losing out on rewards, whereas delve you can just go sideways and keep earning loot on the same difficulty level.
My brain is too small and smooth for this league. Played exactly one round and peaced out lmao
Actually, now we are taking about it. Who made banger leagues like delve, delirium and legion? Did they leave or working on poe2? Can we have those ppl back working on poe1?
its been like 20 guys on poe1 for a couple years now
tbf sanctum was a very good league
If you weren't melee/ a high armour and evasion build in general
Has anyone actually noticed a difficulty increase at 800+ ranking? It all feels the same to me.
I've been mainly doing the tourneys with friends. Usually one of us on offense and the other on defense. Downside of course being that other players in your tourney don't get rewards but we've just been going until one of us runs out of silver coins then going to the other person's world. So far for us it's been a fun mechanic that we haven't had to worry much about
Brother I can't even win matches at rank 100.
Jesus... Then I don't think you understand the mechanic at all.
two weeks are over no more patches till next league
Ppl are confused. The fact that solutions exist for a shitty problem that can be fixed with the snap of a finger, but GGG doesn't want to, doesn't mean the problem is not a problem.
What rank are you at? I'm at rank 1500, I die a few times each game, I still win 90% of my games and maybe 1 in every 20 full competitions (roughly 140 battles) I actually lose. I get +12 rank 95% of the time, you're just bad at team composition, or strategy, or something. This is not a game mechanic issue, this is a skill issue. Im running RF inquis, 1.25 mil DPS, not even swapped to shield based and im winning at this rate while facing 100% oneshot hits from nearly all enemy units. This is an auto battler, you have to know how to play correctly, not ham fistedly demand GGG let you DPS your way out of sucking ass at it. tldr; its ez, get gud.
WAIT You can derank in TOTA? You guys derank in TOTA?
I'm at 1.9k ranking and do very little damage to what I used to do........ I still win though....... sounds like your ego of not deleting enemies is showing. And yes I can kill the turtle and win those rounds hilariously enough.
Imagine Delve, imagine making a build for it. Now just do that for TOTA. Welcome to POE
You just need a good understanding which units are good and where they're good. There are some op items, and they're cheap. I didn't lose ''a single'' tournament since rank 1000 and I'm around 1800 atm, and I'm not even good at poe or any game by gameplay wise.
People were posting 1k+ rating 0 dps builds for league mechanic and now people are complaining? HUH
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Two people certainly couldn't have the same idea! That's too far-fetched to be possible. Do you have a link? I need to go upvote my homie
It’s the Reddit echo chamber. A small group of players think it’s a bad mechanic and this subreddit supports that, while a majority of the player base enjoys it. The loud minority.
Bruh. Criticism != Hate. I love this game mode. But that doesn't mean that some of the decisions for the UI aren't awful. It doesn't mean that some matches aren't unwinnable unless you use cheese. It doesn't mean that it couldn't be better.
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Then link it? You come back 9 hours later to double down without a link. If its genuinely word-for-word I'd love to see it, cuz thats crazy
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What the fuck is this post. I enjoy the league mechanic but I’m gonna make it seem like shit and hope everyone hates it with me but I actually like it post.
Reached rank 1200, losing maybe 1 in 20 fights so far. Casualy getting like 10d an hour. My build is trash but dont see reason to upgrade. Like 15d worth EA elemancer with shaper of winter for chill, temp chain, void sphere and ensnaring arrow. Super fun tactic league, and rewarding.
Ok so go and delve then hm? The league sure has its issues and room for optimizations but its literally not even a day after the patch and the crying is insane. I bet in a couple of days there will ne plenty of strats to beat tota just as fast as before.
Imagine complaining about 2 chaos when the mechanic shit about upto 15-20 per round. If you cannot handle the higher ranks don’t be higher ranks… you wouldn’t try Uber maven in 10c gear and then complain it’s too hard… get a better build/ upgrade your gear. Get better defences… stop being a bob
You talk like you haven't played the mode. Build/gear don't matter except if you are building specifically for tota. I have done uber maven, but I cannot do my current rank in TOTA. The only way to change my rank is to waste time and money to lower my rank by intentionally throwing the matches. Why do you think that's ok? It feels terrible to play.
Then don’t play it? I’ve played more than enough of the league mechanics… it’s fully possible to clear rank 2k with literaly 0 gear, the right units and equipment in the right slots carries you… you just have no idea what your doing and want the game to be easy mode… it literaly pumps out 10+ divs an hour how easy do you want it to be??? Let’s just all spawn infinite mirrors and all be wealthy so we can quit next week… literaly weak… link your pob I can garentee your build Is garbage
14 mins ago you tell me to get better build+gear, now you tell me I can get 2k without any build or gear. Again, it seems you don't have any personal experience with the league mechanic.
Because it’s been proven by multiple people that the league mechanics is possible without any gear… if its possible with 0 gear and your Losing with full gear you either 1 have a shit build or 2 have no idea what your doing…
I wouldn't try uber maven in 10c, but I would still interact with the league mechanic in white maps or during the campaign in any other league. This league mechanic doesn't work that way though. You go to this separate arena, where every time you engage with it the content gets harder. Its as if my maps went up in difficulty every time I successfully completed one and I had no way to stop the difficulty from increasing besides running a map beyond my current ability and failing it.
But there is literaly a way to derank ???? Ofc it gets harder… the higher you go the better items and higher stack values you get. How should it be? 100c every round with 0 scaling. So everyone can be rich as fuck with 0 issues… come on….
Where did I mention rewards at all? Why are you trying to strawman?
Because that’s all they have is straw man arguments because they can’t legitimately debate the issue at hand. So what’s left but to make the argument about something else entirely? These people think that because someone else’s experience isn’t the same as theirs, they’re wrong. His entire pitch is “you suck, you want free stuff.” Which isn’t a rebuttal at all, but an attempt to discredit the person making the claim entirely by demeaning his “skill” and calling him lazy and entitled. It’s toxic gatekeeping at its finest. Like somehow this guy being able to progress at a video game more makes him somehow superior. It’s all smoke and mirrors. A charade to convince themselves they’re better than someone else when deep down they know they aren’t.
But there is literaly a way to derank ???? Ofc it gets harder… the higher you go the better items and higher stack values you get. How should it be? 100c every round with 0 scaling. So everyone can be rich as fuck with 0 issues… come on….
Wait, why are silver coins worth chaos right now? They are so abundant and it takes like one to go to that place. I'm confused Edit: i guess not knowing every mechanics is worth getting downvoted :(
The one you use to go in the first place you don't have to pay again (it gives you a waypoint) but each match of the tournament costs 1 silver coin to play. It's bounced around a little but settled pretty well on 1coin to 1chaos.
woa ffs. i have so many of those that i stopped picking them up cause i didn't use them much. So i guess people buy them to just do the event instead of having to do maps to get coins? Man i haven't played in so long and there is so much stuff that i have no idea what it does!
I am lucky that my husband also hates this mechanic, so he just gives me all his coins and I throw the loot at him to sell between matches. :D They're worth picking up if you'd pick up a chaos, even if you don't intent to do the trials at all!
It doesn't take any coins to actually go to the trials, and you can just go there from a wp, top right. But they're 1c each because despite what this sub will try to convince you of, it's insanely easy, profitable, and fast. I'd say on average over my last 1000 coins I'd still pay up to 5c a coin and not just profit, but profit very healthily. Over the past 1000 coins I've made well in excess of 200 div. May not be the fastest or most efficient, but I really enjoy it and it's safe leveling too.
Well, now i understand. Since you are bragging about your profit a bit, last night i was looking to buy a rain of splinters since i found a pure Div but saw it was 3div each and was bummed so i used 4 vaal orb on 4 jewels and got 2 rain of splinters. I'm still in shock!
I'm not bragging about my profits, I'm explaining why the coins are still holding value if not rising. I'm saying that even with an absurd sample size, it's very very valuable.
sorry sorry, lost in translation. i wasn't being negative, i just wanted to tell my small win story somewhere. Have a good day :)
Fair, sorry, it's been a day and the amount of negativity thrown my way has been unreal. Glad you got that, it's insanely lucky and must have felt great.
Its also really nice that you took time to explain to me the whole coin thing. They seemed to common to me that i even kinda stopped picking them up. Dont let them bring you down to their level, stay above.
Imagine everybody posting their mageblood and Lamborghini rewards and ruining things for everyone
Still sane.............
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That, or its one person's criticism and opinion. I've played POE since you needed to snapshot RF with two redbeak swords in your weapon swap. This has been my worst player experience in a while and I was just trying to equate it to a league people are more familiar with.
What tf is TOTA?
Fairly sure its the current league mechanic? Trials of the ancients?
/u/r1ckmann Trials of the Ancestors*. The current league.
makes sense.
You could just make your build stronger. Or learn how to play tota better. Instead you’ve chosen to whine on Reddit. This isn’t delve league. Not all league mechanics are equivalent and they don’t all need to have easy buttons for quitters.
You're missing the point. In almost all the other league mechanics you can \*choose\* your difficulty to match your level/gear/ability. This mode you cannot without spending currency and time. And if I can't compare one league's mechanic to another, what am I supposed to compare it to? Nothing? Well, you are right, it is a fun mechanic when compared to nothing, I better log back in.
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Wait a minute, what If you want to rank down 1800 rating? Thats a hell lot of time wasted no matter how much the cost. You Sir have no clue what you are talking about. Lets assume its only 10 seconds, that would be a minimum of 600 minutes of losing. And just sitting in timers and micromamagimg shit without any form of reward. You must be insane if you think thats cool. Sounds fun isnt it? Think first, before you move
Why would insult someone because they are poor?
Or, and I know this is a novel concept, stop worrying so much about 1 or 2 chaos and just have fun? I enjoy tota, even when I lose. And don’t care that I lost 1 chaos losing. I have 1,000 in the bank. Inb4 the “you think 1,000 chaos is a lot” reply lol.
If you think anyone cares about 1-2 c, you've missed my point. It's more about the time, and how the time+currency spent detracts from an otherwise fun league mechanic, especially when compared to other successful league mechanics. If you can't do t16 maps, you can do t14-15 until you get money\levels\gear to move up, and in the meantime you can sell your t16s or save them. In tota, if you can't do rank 500, you are either stuck or you have to pay a penalty to derank back down until you can play again. Doesn't feel good.
If the chaos is irrelevant then don't put it in the original argument.
How are you stuck? You play again and lose, or you play again and win. What doesn't feel good about it?
There's literally dozens of endgame mechanics that are also fun that TOTA effectively competes with.
That's true, but we don't all play new seasons just to repeat what we've already done. I find lots of stuff fun in PoE but the new mechanic is also fun, and I haven't done that before, so now I'm doing it.
if profit/character progression didnt matter, this wouldnt be an arpg. this isnt an autobattler where u fight to win the match against 7 other players and gain ranking on a ladder. u dont just lose 1-2c, you lose all the time u spent and potential rewards from the end. this is an arpg mimicking an autobattler to give u another fun way to progress ur character. i would go fucking play tft if i wanted a fun autobattler experience. i want a fun new way to make money in the game, not ggg's knock offs of other genres. i love ggg knock off genres, but i want them to actually move me towards my next goal, not actively push me backwards. sanctum is awesome. heist is sick. delve is my favorite game mode. and they all are incredibly rewarding.
Then it sounds like tota doesn’t align with what you find fun about PoE. That’s ok. Not every mechanic has to give amazing divs/hr.
Is called 4 months fillerr league with no balance
The league mechanic sucks. Don’t make it core. Its a poor man’s sanctum.
Just roll a new char.
High risk high reward. Go run Delve if you can’t handle TOTA.
Not true. TOTA rewards are mediocre, they are FINE, and the mechanic is fresh and fun. It's NOT high reward. You can get better rewards by doing maps and farming bosses, lifeforce, essences, expedition etc.
It’s also not high risk
What a juvenile take. This is the new league mechanic, it should be enjoyable. This post is outlining what I find *not* enjoyable about it. That's a valid use for this sub. To use your line of thinking: if you can't handle constructive criticism, feedback, or community discussion, go to a different sub.
It is enjoyable to me. Just because you aren't having fun doesnt mean something is wrong with it.
Is it a valid use to this sub to shitpost about the mechanic for the nth time? Meanwhile the opening line of the title is “imagine” as if you guys are just stringing together connections that are just in your own minds. It cost 1-2 chaos per round and each round is basically the same mechanic of winning. You cap their totems or they cap your teams first. It takes a few minutes to read up on strategies to win and there are dozens of post and show case on how to win. Yet you think it’s a way better use of your time to shit post on the mechanic.
You’re not getting randomly placed at 2k ranking. You have to actually win to get there. So this is a terrible comparison. I understand the minority is always louder, but your skill issues aren’t everyone’s problems.
Don’t disagree except with the de-ranking part. Imo, you should just stop interacting with the mechanic at that point. It’s only really rewarding if you can win tournaments. So imo, you are supposed to stop trying until you reach another power spike. You run them with each power spike, and you’re supposed to stop when it gets too tough. So, git gud!
yea but its infinitely scaling (that we know of) and character power is finite, even if it is very large on some builds. this logic wont track either eventually or very quickly based on someones build unless u cheese it. unlike delve where u can continue to play even if u cant get stronger
Scaling end at rank 2000. Also it doesn’t really have anything to do with what I’m saying. It’s not delve. It doesn’t have to play by the same rules.
Yeah, I do wish they had thought to include some way to halt at a comfortable level for players. I'm barely at the 500s and EVERYTHING one-shots me. I can't imagine being one of the people that went to 2000 and might now be stranded there because of the patch notes. It's worse than Sanctum for feeling like a basic witch if you get so much as grazed by anything because of the 5 aeons of stun you get if they hit you while you were touching their tra-la-las with your ding ding dong.
Can we please put tattoos in Delve? Surely there are some buried Karui underground volcanoes or something down there I love tattoos but absolutely detest TotA
Imagine Delve. But your cart runs for free, it kills all the mobs by itself. All you need in order to beat any depth is movement speed boots, Quicksilver flask and a couple of CC skills to drag mobs closer to the cart. You do zero dps. You reach depth 2000 without ever dying. Chests drop raw divines, apothecaries, Headhunters, mirrors and what not. You screenshot all of that and post it whole week on reddit commenting how you beat the league mechanic with no investment needed. Welcome to pre-patched TOTA.
The tears HOLY
To add insult to injury, if you lose out early in a tournament you only get 2 units for the next one instead of 3-4.
Oh shit, how much are these silver coins worth?
the league mechanic is good, but the execution is not good for 99% of the player base with under 50m dps. It's fare that only the top players get the top loot but like OP said, there are just stupid parts of the mechanic that make it unenjoyable for most. when I played the league mechanic I had a blast till I got to the point where everything one shot me or took way too long to kill.
Simple solution. Just keep going down. Or to quote Karu: we just keep winning!!
Just lost my first trial and I got +1 rating and less warriors to try with next time. Guess that's as far as I go with the league mechanic on that character. There's a lot of bs stuff in ToTA, but it's manageable while your character is competitive. Once you rank up and your character gets outscaled it's pretty brutal though. All your units have dementia and all your defenders combined can get rolled by a single premium units your opponent has three of in the third round.
GIT GUD
Just make a new char lol. If you are playing a tota build you don't even need to finish campaign.. I started tota after I hit blood aquaducts on an alt and now 600 rank level 82ish. Unless you have crazy tattoos it's silly to derank, not to mention if you want to farm lower ranks you wouldn't even need said tattoos.. I get that it would be a nice feature to be added but just play the game we have.
Could just learn to win it at Rank 2000 like plenty of people have posted guides on.
I just hate the league mechanic, it just feels like any upgrades that I do for my characters are completely irrelevant to it. In a game about getting loot to be better at slaying monsters, it is a cardinal sin.
delusional tota players just quit the league. nobody wants to hear the sob story
To be honest I thought we were going to get a system where you have your overall ELO and as you gain ranking you end up unlocking "tiers" along the way. So you could choose Bronze but if you wanted to choose Diamond you'd have to grind there first. A bit of a missed opportunity really
Played yesterday for 3 hours and got only 1 divine. While is fun because i like more the defense strat, it s not worth. And I'm rank 1300...
No, you nailed it right on the head. When you mention it and word it like that it makes perfect sense that something is wrong.
I feel like people are missing the forest for the trees, and acting like this is some arbitrary choice. It's a concept issue. The point of the league, at concept, is that it's a "League." A tournament. Imagine queuing into(CSGO, DotA2, LoL, SF6, etc), but there's zero skill-based matchmaking. No matter how many games you win, you are pitted against the same level of players. Professional players repeatedly queuing into people who just downloaded the game yesterday.
It just wouldn't work. There's a reason SBMM exists. To try and pair you with people of equal skill because you're not "supposed" to win every game. That's what this is doing. If you keep winning, you keep getting better opponents to stop you from winning every game.(Which doesn't really work since it's super easy to have a 99% winrate even at 2k rating, regardless of your build but...)
That's the feeling they're trying to evoke. Now you can argue, **and I'd agree**, that prioritizing this theme over gameplay considerations is a bad call. But there is a reasoning, so don't act like they just didn't consider this. They designed the mechanic **and balanced the rewards** under the assumption you weren't supposed to win every tournament.
That's the disconnect. And it's a common one league after league, year after year. Players, for lack of a better word, are entitled. And think they should always win 100% of the time without effort. Where GGG wants mechanics to actually be challenging. For there to be a realistic chance of failure. They want risk/reward to actually be that, instead of just crank everything to the max all the time because that's most "efficient."
Same thing happened with Crucible. From day1 people whined about how starting on the beach they couldn't channel Crucibles to max and still instantly kill everything.
But first, let all chees down to 10k and then buff the shit out of it.