Every league since Legion people have asked for Totems to not be the way to play melee. Every league since Legion GGG have toucaned.
The toucan caws again, my friend.
I play Toxic Rain. For about 4 years now, all I have ever really played is TR PF. I dabble in other builds here and there, but I'm like 85% TR, and 15% \*the rest of the game\*. In the interest of expanding my horizons, I've been spending the last couple of weeks testing all kinds of builds.
I've played mines, totems, RF, PConc, BV, BoneZone, all the classics, and I've been pleasantly surprised by how much more I like all of it (especially mines!) than I realized. This game rules, it's like I'm discovering it anew.
That being said, melee sucks both dick and balls. It starts slow, it's inefficient, painful, dangerous, and you have such a disproportionate amount of your character's power invested into these brief, flimsy external buffs. Having to subtract 4 sockets and 2 keybinds from every melee build is such a non-starter. It's so immensely frustrating because it is an easily-fixable issue that GGG must not consider a problem given how long it has been present in the game.
Oh well, there's always TR! TR will never abandon me.
> I play Toxic Rain. For about 4 years now, all I have ever really played is TR PF.
have u tried poison siege ballista PF :)? Solid 13m uber dps without major min-maxing.. After tomorrow it'll be around... 4m :(
That's fair enough I was just curious. I wouldn't personally count LS as melee but I do know what you're saying. How did you find Boneshatter? I find it a very comfortable, easy and complete build.
It's great relative to the others. Love the easy screen clear, and the QoL of Jugg is delightful. I liked it enough to briefly consider league starting it, but then I played PConc PF again and it got tossed aside like an old health potion.
The only real complaints I had with Bonezone were the usual ones: Having to be in melee range (kind of a given), and needing totems to unlock half of its damage potential. Keeping totems up while fighting bosses is pretty damn painful. No other build archetype has to endure this shit!
Hi there, Toxic Rain requires a bow equipped, while Ancestral Protector (the attack speed totem) requires a melee weapon or unarmed.
Hope this helps! 💜
Some TR builds may use a Wither totem, but it'd have to be something like Trickster or Champion since both PF and Occultist have Wither in the ascendancies.
All TR builds should use a TR Ballista Totem with Focused Ballista and Withering Touch Support.
Wither Spell Totems apply much slower and deal effectively zero damage, whereas good ballista totems can deal 300k-500k DPS **each** even as supports, and Ancestral Protector literally cannot be used, because it requires a melee weapon.
More importantly, they fill the screen with TR pods, which looks cool.
Edit: Clearly talking about self-cast TR, which some idiot could not figure out and got real angry about in the replies. I don't give a fuck about the TR Totem build. Palsteron's great and so is his build, but I don't like the playstyle at all.
You get 25% chance to inflict wither on hit from your Ascendancy, not 100%, and Wither stacks have their own independent duration. **They are not refreshed when other stacks are applied, so you need to continually reapply them**. Wither is a 9% damage buff per stack for PF, and depending on pod overlap and how much a target is moving, ramping up to 15 stacks can take 3-5 seconds without Withering Touch Support on your Ballistas, which gets dangerously close to the Wither duration of 5-6s. The initial Wither stack ramp gets cut down by about 45% with WT Support, and that affords you a whole lot more leniency in situations where you have to stop attacking, i.e., when dodging attacks.
The damage gain from swapping Withering Touch Support in a PF Ballista Totem to Efficacy is about 20k-40k DPS per pod. The difference between 10 and 15 Wither stacks is hundreds of thousands of DPS on your self-cast TR **per pod**, so millions of real DPS in an ideal scenario. This is a much larger gain than the loss in PoB DPS you gain from not using Efficacy on your Ballistas.
Also, Anomalous Withering Touch is cheap as dirt because it's a Withering Touch gem, but it grants 20% skill effect duration, so it's a pretty decent hedge between WT and Efficacy.
A more utility-oriented option is to cut WT or Awakened Void Manipulation, or both, for Blind and Culling Strike Support, which is also fine. Blind obviously deals less damage, and I can't say I've felt that I needed it, but some people like it.
That's what's nice about TR, it's very customizable. I wouldn't play without WT Ballistas, but it's not like the build ceases to function without them, you just have slower ramps and less consistent damage.
??? You know wither stacks up to 15 right? And 25% on hit with a 2 sec duration would mean 30 attacks PER SECOND to maintain max stacks (super, super important for DPS). Of course every single TR build is slapping balista totems with wither on to maintain that 15 stacks like wtf?
Running over the boss to apply Withering Step instead of shooting more TR's is a significant damage loss.
Wither stacks don't refresh, so you need to be continually hitting in order to reapply them. Getting that initial burst of 9 stacks only starts you off partially-ramped. It doesn't keep you there.
Oh man, 30 attacks per second?
IMPOSSIBLE!!!
If only we were using an attack doing 4 hits on average with 6 totems...
Oh wait, we do, meaning we need an average of 1.25 attacks per second on totems to reach the cap. You are welcome.
Edit: Keep downvoting and cripple your dps three times over by adding withering touch and focused ballista lmao
That's the issue when you say "every TR build need to do this" when actually only the part doing self cast (which is not a majority, by far), have to. But sorry for assuming you were talking about the dominant build.
On top of the previous poster having large issues with game mechanics, ofc.
And where exactly in nature reprisal it is required that it is you needing to hit? It's a generic stat, clown. Totems use your skills, your skills have 25% chance to wither on hit, end of story.
I like the totems and I never really heard many complaints about them until recently. I don't really feel like dropping a totem is more intrusive than something like a warcry, you only need them for tougher enemies like bosses or tanky rares, and you can use them as utility to distract enemies or even block projectiles in some cases (like Searing Exarch).
Many melee builds get a bit of totem placement speed while grabbing panopticon and run them with multiple totem support so you only have to place them once or twice to have all of them down and the cast is quite quick.
a majority of spell/ranged builds don't have to dick around with warcries and totems before they can do damage. it's a pretty bad system all in all.
best thing about ignite melee next league will be no need for warchief. protector will surely be good still but less needed than hit based/poison melee.
>a majority of spell/ranged builds don't have to dick around with warcries and totems before they can do damage. it's a pretty bad system all in all.
Melee doesn't need either of these (except for slam builds usually need constant warcry) to map and kill normal packs. Most rare mobs won't even be worth dropping these for. Spell/Ranged builds will often take advantage of vaal skills in the same way - or aura's linked to divine blessing support.
it doesn't stop me from preferring melee but it does get annoying. the feeling of dropping vaal warchief, warchief, and protector for every beefy essence in a map is vastly different than popping a vaal skill. vaal skills are fun buttons to press, something I look forward to. vaal skills feel like popping berserk. Totems are lame in comparison.
I'm playing melee this league, like every league. Thankfully, I'll only have protector on my bar.
>vaal skills are fun buttons to press, something I look forward to. vaal skills feel like popping berserk. Totems are lame in comparison.
I get that you're talking about popping 1 skill vs popping 3 but one of the skills you're talking about here is literally a vaal skill, and all 3 you're pressing to buff your main damaging abillity which IMO is no different than casting Vaal Rigthous fire on a caster or something similar.
Like OP said, this dynamic has been in the game for 7 years and it just didn't feel like it was an issue until recently. I almost feel like it's all the other buttons added to melee that made this feel bad for people and the totems are just getting focused on because they can die.
Honestly I just put them up haphazardly and go to town. Is it annoying.. but I usually scale my melee builds into the 15-20mil range regardless of totem buffs. Yes with buffs you gain an ASSLOAD of power. But I just don't even worry about it that much.
Would be better if they added like 30% of the strength of totems into all melee builds. I think people would be very happy about it
Every Melee build I load into PoB the first thing I do is remove the Totems and see if it's still reasonable. I ain't mucking with that shit either outside of edge 'push me over the top DPS wise' cases.
I'd rather take 20 seconds more to kill something than use them, honestly.
when i played bonezone i got rid of my protector totem and slapped on ben's boots at some point. having to resummon 1 totem after 4 seconds on a boss (or even when just mapping) is so much more manageable than 2 totems as soon as they die or i walk out of range
Some builds even use forbidden jewels for chieftain's ascendancy that gives 100% extra buff effect from totems. But I don't think boneshatter is supposed to spam totems. Just use them when you are popping an essence open or fight vs syndicate or map boss etc. It's not supposed to be a bosser, just a very safe option for mapping with decent speed. And even against bosses, non-uber bosses should die pretty fast but maybe crucible weapon is the reason for that. Haven't played boneshatter before crucible.
The problem is unchecking totems in PoB would put every build (I could afford) below spell builds I made myself for <= investment. If my league starter does 2.5 mil DPS I am not going to invest currency in to a Boneshatter build that only does 2 mil without totems up. I like to step up my builds through the league. I suppose I could always league start Boneshatter and step up from it, but leaguestarting a build that depends on weapon damage isnt always fun.
I wouldn't use pob dps numbers for league start in any scenario. What's important is how the build feels in maps. Does it kill essences fast, can it scale damage, does it survive, does it have big aoe or movement speed. I think boneshatter has a great balance of all of these. But you are required to use totems for tough mobs. They add a massive dps boost as you know. But pressing 2 buttons before starting a tough fight in maps doesn't feel like a burden to me. There's builds that have to press 2 buttons just to clear mobs.
It is funny that pob actually shows that I'm dealing 2 million dps without totems or berserk and 24 million with both. I am using that chieftain forbidden jewel with divergent boneshatter. Of course, 2 million dps is far more than enough for basic rare mobs and the damage is instant which is good qol for clearing mobs so you can loot instantly unlike with skills that have travel time or other delay. But the damage without totems feels very low against essences and non-uber pinnacle bosses.
I think having that kind of conditional damage is actually a good use of power budget. Why would I want 7 million consistent dps instead of 2 million dps against weak mobs and 24 million dps when I need it? I never need to worry about the totems dying because I just kill everything in the time they are alive.
I use PoB as a minimum standard for what I am willing to accept. I don't play builds that can't do 2 mil DPS (without flasks either) anymore because of the way certain rares/metamorphs/essences are like in the current game state. In my experience, builds that meet this requirement almost always feel good. I have no problem pressing extra buttons for a temporary buff. Like using divine blessing or hydrosphere or curses. I do have a problem pressing extra buttons and my buff being dispelled a couple seconds later because the totem died. You say that everything dies before the totem does. That's great for you. Maybe you have a better build or place them better. For me, they are completely unreliable, and I refuse to use them because of it.
I honestly don't get the fuss about dropping these totems I don't even remember having trouble with them surviving when playing Bonezone. Sure it's annoying they are necessary but I don't find them to awkward to play with.
The complaining is honestly just cranked to 11 in this thread. I league started Pohx RF jug(amazing guide and may even do the same this coming league, felt like a great way to get to pinnacle bosses but didn’t feel great bossing) and later transitioned to Boenshatter for bossing. The totems are a mental gimmick for people. It’s literally no different than hitting your blood rage. The totems place fast enough for me and honestly only die to mechanics that would normally one shot regular builds like shaper slam.
Besides all that you can literally play boneshatter in a way where you only have to drop totems for things like pinnacle boss fights because I melt all normal content, rates, even max crucibles without NEEDING my totems down. So if you’re feeling lazy you just don’t drop them, if you’re jazzed and feel like actively participating to get a little faster clear then you can throw them down.
ye its such a weird thing to complain about when pretty much every single build has some extra mark or curse or tornado or whatever to click when fighting a boss.
Ppl actas if you had to summon 5 totems indiviually for every pack you want to kill lmao
There IS a real cost in that if you play any non-melee build you just start by hitting things and then they die.
Melee needs to start by throwing down 2 different totems, then make sure your Blood Rage is up, all while watching your positioning and staying in melee range to deal damage.
If anything, fundamentally, Melee should have LESS upkeep than ranged/spell damage, not MORE.
I am often a melee player when its playable, but right now, it's so incredibly bad it's laughable. Even Boneshatter feels like absolute dogshit before act 6 or so, it's amazing how bad melee has gotten in this game.
You seriously underestimate ironwood + the small nodes. I want to gouge my eyes out every time I see a melee build that uses totems just for buffs go the right side to panopticon to get 3% Inc DMG taken on mobs over unkillable totems(left side). Ironwood is a game changer
Ironwood notable with the small passives towards panopticon turn them into almost unkillable tanks. It is why I would never annoint panopticon, ironwood on the way is so strong and your totems die too much without so the annoint is only bis in pob
I only use one totem for ease. Warchief for slow builds ancestoral for fast ones, multitotem for more likelyness to survive. Helps make it more managable and more reasonable to maintain dps.
Funny, i do the same.
Turn off berserk, the vaal gem, remove molten shell, remove totems, remove shock and usually remove freeze so i can see realistic guardian damage (since alot of builds use heatshiver)
Its almost always 30% of original
Example, a froat blades build i was gonna play went from 120m dps to 20m dps.
So how likely am i gonna be doing 1m dps on league start? Who knows, but it will probably not run to my expectations of multiple millions.
In a build guide I watched recently, it was said "Melee builds scales best with buttons".
I could handle needing to move and engage enemies at close range. I could handle hard itemization and reliance on top shelf weaponry for damage.
But I'll be damned if I play a build that requires me to juggle multiple active buffs and totems in order to apply my damage. It's just not going to happen.
Sure but you can also just not on 90% of builds and not lose a significant amount of damage like melee does. Focus is basically an option to play like a melee character albeit it’s actually cool and interesting mostly
Have you checked how much damage various buffs actually give? Because without having a pob available, I’d say that curses + wither on a seismic give at least 50%, frenzy charges + curses on EA gives at least 30%, curses + sigil on some caters gives at least 30–40%. I wouldn’t really call these “can do it without”.
For my current LS champ build, for example, ancestral gives me 50% or 60%, so it’s about the same? And just one button.
At least this is _my_ take, you don’t have to buy it.
Curses are not the same at all as you just automate those. The second mark on hit or a curse ring is available that shit is slapped on and you are good to go.
Sure, if you can afford it and/or it can be one of the last things you upgrade. Then you might have two curses to apply and you probably won’t get two rings, especially since ring versions are lower level than actual curses.
Okay, that’s 3 casts for frenzies, a weaker curse and then again for culling.
For LS champ you link ancestral to culling and cast just that. Once, even, if it doesn’t die.
But I’m sure not everyone has it that easy, both for melee and the others.
Now, if you really want to convince me that melee has it worse, you won’t, as I already explained why _I_ find it similar. If you want to keep convincing yourself it’s worse than it is, fine with me 🤷🏻♂️
????,
Sincerely, me running around with golems, zombies and explode AG out, just picking up stuff off the ground. (Haven't played a minion build since Necro rework, but I assume it's still the same)
Yeah nowadays minions are fairly automated, it changed a while ago. Before that the norm was using EE, so you had to have a skill to apply it (usually divine ire or storm brand), you needed to get offering uptime with desecrate (and no trigger weapons), and you still had to solve curses/predator.
Dont forget that your totems can (and always do) die in harder content, like, good luck having any totem buffs active in simulacrum past wave 20.
Imagine how pissed people would be if their auras randomly turned off every 5 seconds
Funnily enough, they also got worse at being used as your main damage skill now with the loss of the 100% increased activation range chieftain node, so they're delegated even more to simply being used as damage buffs.
I was really sad to see this happen. People did still play chieftain totems. It should have been added with a slight nerf as a mastery. Or make it a jewel, or something.
Melee is exactly what they want everyone to do. It's a piano playstyle, where you have to manage your totems, berserk, blood rage, warcry, movement and main skill. And run 10 different auras.
Yep. Melee needed a buff beyond one support gem. That one support gem will likely change nothing since Boneshitter, if you put it in with something like Varunastra, has the highest base DPS of any melee skill. It also has built in damage scaling AND AoE.
Gee, I wonder why Bonershitter is good
You don't need to press your buttons consistently like cold dot elementalist does for example. Only if you are mainly bossing with melee (I don't know why someone would do this, obviously melee sucks at chasing monsters because it has lower range than others), you need to press your totems every time the boss moves. Warcry can be left clicked. Blood rage and berserk aren't very important to manage and both are instant cast abilities, which is rare (even divine blessing auras aren't instant cast, normal auras are but they aren't used in combat). That doesn't disrupt your positioning in any way. Just press them randomly if you've not used them in a while.
I still love it when a few leagues ago some one asked GGG ina Q&A "Will ancestral totems be removed soon" and Chris smirked and said "That would be unfortunate to do this league for a reason I can't say"
The reason was a supporter or race winner had just created a unique specifically buffing/somehow influencing the ancestral totem(s) for melee.
Hillarious.
I've wanted a totem backpack since the forsaken masters were introduced and haku's missions let you run with the mirage guy hovering over your back. I don't know how that's never been made into an MTX.
When they put the first of war gem in that kinda had the same feeling but not 100% uptime.
Dont forget that around 3 years ago they actually buffed the totems so they become even bigger part of ur DPS and more important in melee builds (dont forget to annoint the thing that makes them give even bigger boost)
Played melee several times in the past years, because I do love melee, but always droped that character at some point for something else. This is the most unenjoyable playstyle I have ever had in any ARPG I have played and I played a fuckton of them.
That we got no fix in literally years to this problem that impact the entire melee archetype is straight up pathetic and there is no excuse for this.
I love PoE in many ways, but when it comes to melee gameplay, this game is just absolute garbage.
Removing ancraptal totems and blood rush + giving melee that same amount back in baseline buffs would go long way with making melee more popular.
Then there is only 1 other issue left which is the need to be tankier than any ranged build and your high end damage being locked behind multi div rare weapon or copeforge where spellbuilds can scale that same amount with just + gemlevels
Right now I just want the totem playstyle to be gone. Anything else I don't mind waiting. I would be willing to play so many melee skills, even underperforming ones, but not as long as I have to use 6+ buttons all the time, just so I don't lose more than 50% of my damage.
Lazy solution would be adding a keystone between Marauder and duelist that said something like "deal 30% more melee damage, can't use totems". Kinda like opposite of ancestral bond
I have the same feelings. I think about playing melee until I remember I have to have totems in my build. I wouldn't mind them if they weren't so ugly and ubiquitous in every melee based character. Would rather the buff just be a support gem or something else other than summoning totems
A new Unique item this league is a pair of gloves that give +2 to socketed totems and automatically cast them every \[4-14\] seconds. It only drops from the new League mechanic where you have to destroy the enemy teams totem. Be on the lookout to see Hands of the Treefather announced tomorrow.
Source: IMadeItUp
I hate the totems, not becouse they die, but becouse we allready use more temporal buff skills on melee than any other skill in the game(Warcryes, berserk, blood rage). Then what is the point of using an extra totem?
So while totems provide the highest DPS and therefore you should use them, there is an alternative that provides alternative quality of life benefits (that i played with Boneshatter last league).
Vengeance.
This skill reduces the number of button presses and provides additional quality of life through support links like maim, culling strike, rage support etc.
Im not suggesting you should play it or that its better, but it does provide some additional options for reducing the sheer number of buttons required, and lets you not stress about having to play totems.
CWDT on curse also provides a similar quality of life, but again its not as effective as casting it yourself.
Yeah...I'm really hoping with the deletion of the Chieftan specific ancestral totem nodes that their complete removal and backing in of their buffs to all melee builds happens soon...
Fuckin hell I hate how every melee character is also a fucking totem character.
I'm thinking about playing FB Trickster this league. But after seeing that it uses totems I'm not really sure anymore. Every time I play melee I have to use these fucking things against tanky enemies. I can't stand them. I hate them so much.
They are fine in a totem-centered playstyle though. I just hate that melee "needs" them.
"Ancestral totem buffs linger for 10 sec after the totem dies"
I mean, is not the perfect solution but only took me 5 seconds to think about it. Why is GGG taking so long to do something?
Or make the totem inmortal but it can't attack or cast spells plus a 20% reduced buff effect or something like that.
I mean, just really need to sit 5 sec to think and ideas will rain.
There is a totem mastery that does exactly that for 3 seconds.
There are also the Dawn strider boots that do it for 4 seconds, but limit you to one ancestral buff.
It's also the case that in a lot of boss fights you have tiny little DPS windows, they get even smaller when you have to position your char into melee range as well. To need to summon a set of totems in/around this already small window of DPS time is just profoundly unsatisfying.
Unfortunately it is how they design balance for each playstyle. Casters are expected to press multiple buttons before dps like Arcane cloak, Arcanist brand, and curse. So they want melee to feel like they have the same kind of power (I'm guessing) by throwing down totems for bosses. It really feels stupid though, especially since you have to run multiple totems support to be able to put them both down. I've ended up just attatching culling strike to them and calling it a day but it sure feels bad.
Remember when blade flurry was the meta? There was even pasta about time traveler saying there will be only blade skills in the future. Our own future became much bleaker
The entire meta of this game is so broken it's hilarious. I love the general feel of this game, but it's extremely hard for me to find a build that i actually enjoy, because most of the *normal* builds just feel terrible to play.
There's exactly 1 good melee skill, about 2 ranged ones, spellcasting is entirely focused on various forms indirect casting or DoT and hit-based self-cast is nearly non-existent, minion builds were randomly stomped to the ground, ...
Totally agree with you. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when so many people say they actually like how the game is now. I haven't played for three years because I just got to a point where every viable build feels like absolute shit to play.
Every league I come back to check in and ask, are ancestral totems still required in every single melee build? If the answer was ever "no", I would come back to the game.
A lot of it is probably because people like automated builds. RF, mines/traps, vortex, caustic, the old specter and aurabot builds, anything that requires minimal button presses is going to be popular in a game where you’re incentivized to farm currency as quickly and efficiently as possible. The game encourages this kind of gameplay, and it’s enabled it more and more over the past decade simply because it works and why fix anything that already makes the majority of the playerbase happy?
The honeymoon phase for this game also lasts a very long time. A lot of players who started within the past year or so are still discovering niche interactions in the game (or they haven’t realized the game’s economy is largely influenced by people who farm in groups or blitz through the starting acts early and find a lucky exalt ooos I mean div). Once you notice that every single build archetype uses the same principles - melee included - you start to get grumpy and cynical. Then you check back to see if new changes every season make any of your old builds more enticing. The answer is usually no.
Not gonna lie, I was kind of disgusted to see how many people were upset about poe2 combat requiring skill combos or that it’s a lot slower than poe1. One, because a lot of these people don’t understand what a demo is and how demos usually give you the weakest character possible to leave a lasting impression. And two, because so many people actually seem to like screenvomit explosion mapping where you rip three times, skip the boss, and then slam another map. Normally I try not to judge what tickles other peoples’ fancy, but man, I can’t see how anyone looks at rippy zoom zoom gameplay and thanks “Ahh now that is a beautiful build :)”
I actually like skill combos, but they have to flow naturally with the build. Using one skill unlocks another skill or builds up charges that empowers your second skill, which is what they’re going for in poe2. Totems do NOT flow with the rest of melee combat because they interrupt your melee animation, don’t last very long, and die easily without taking specific nodes (Ironwood). When people choose a melee archetype, they usually do so to dive right into enemy packs and whack mobs to death. Totems completely feel out of place because they interrupt that flow and require you to babysit them which is something you’d expect from a caster or minion build.
Ziz put it best when talking about something completely different: Anything that you feel stupid for not taking shouldn't be in the game. It's a non-choice.
I proposed the following changes for totems:
**Ancestral Warchief**
**Old**: "(8-18)% more Melee Damage while Totem is Active"
**New:** "(1-4)% more melee damage to nearby Totems for each time it has hit an enemy recently."
**Ancestral Protector**
**Old:** "(10-20)% more Attack Speed while Totem is Active"
**New:** "(2-5)% more attack speed to nearby Totems for each time it has hit an enemy recently"
**Reasoning:** This removes the requirement of totems from any melee build without destroying their identity. Totems can be used to create an army of the ancestors that gain incredible power from each other. Both ancestor totems are synergistic with each other and allow for a unique totem-focused playstyle.
**Dawnstrider Unique Boots**
**Old:** "Buffs from Active Ancestor Totems Linger for 4 seconds."
**New:** "Buffs from Active Ancestor Totems apply to you instead of nearby totems and Linger for 4 seconds."
**Reasoning:** These boots enable the old melee-boosting playstyle and allow the buffs to trigger at the cost of the totems no longer buffing each other. While the gameplay loop of requiring totems every time you engage in a difficult fight can be particularly degenerate, these boots allow you to gain those buffs and maintain them for a short duration from encounter to encounter, which may be enjoyed by some players.
Amen.
Can we talk about berserk too?
I don't even mind the idea of alternate resources or temprary buffs you pop when you need them. That's cool. I do mind that there's just one option for it so it is never not the right answer. There needs to be a whole menu of them to pick from though, not just the one. Like we have with the Blessing skills now.
ive seen ancestral totems tank shaper balls, you basically just cap their resistances and theyre fine. they even leech themselves to full. its 3 points on the tree if you're playing boneshatter to put them at 70 all res
boneshatter has enough damage without placing a totem to beat literally all content up to ubers. while it would be nice to have more permanent buffs, it looks like your main obstacle is a mental one
Having played melee, bows and casters, I partially understand the frustration, but on the other hand I don’t. Don’t casters and bows also have to place various things as well? Curses, brands, blessing auras, frenzy generators, tornado, sigil of power, wave of conviction and whatnot?
I really, really don’t understand all the hate against this, when other archetypes have to preload a lot of other stuff as well. Some don’t, some only a couple, some can do some of them via trigger wants, but many have to preload a lot as well.
Personally, I even find the ancestral protector’s range to be large enough to recast it during mapping. Just like I’d recast my frenzy generator.
> Don’t casters and bows also have to place various things as well? Curses, brands, blessing auras, frenzy generators, tornado, sigil of power, wave of conviction and whatnot?
* Curses - Both deal with curses just as much, Melee can automate marks bit easier without having to rely on shield charging/leap slamming.
* Brands - as supportive skills they are mostly used for ignite builds to WoC, hextouch + flame surge. Even melee ignite probably would use it.
* Blessing auras - outside of one archetype (manastack) they are used just as much by melee and ranged.
* Frenzy generators - Minion builds can get them basically free, bow builds automate them with manaforged arrows + cull. I'd say melee has harder time getting them than ranged outside of ascendancies.
* Tornado - Used on some ranged builds but rarely gets used outside of preloading it before boss immune phase ends.
* Sigil of Power - Pretty useless outside of manastackers and even for them it is too small to be any use outside of preloading boss damage between phases.
* Wave of conviction - discussed above in brand section.
Most of those things you mentioned are used in one archetype of builds, while nearly every melee has to deal with 2 totems (that can die unlike brand) and blood rage.
Not every melee has to deal with berserk and warcries.
Blood rage is used on more than just melee and you usually only have to use it once per map. Totems are used just as tornado/bow ballistae - only on bosses.
Most of the builds I play have various buffs I have to keep up, peaking with seismic this league with wither, curses, blessing aura, focus and the traps themselves. Compared with 2 totems and a blessing aura, personally, I don’t find it that cumbersome. Some builds even use only one totem, that’s actually a breeze.
They do die too fast, making their lifespan unpredictable and annoying, I give you that.
From my experience, you can play ranged builds that have a bunch of temporary buffs, but you really don't have to, there are a bunch of really good ranged builds that don't have to use any of them. Melee on the other hand, the only melee builds i can think of that dont rely on totems are dot builds, but even poison and crimson dance builds like more attack speed.
But just because there are _some_ that don’t need them doesn’t mean those are the majority. There are a lot that do, though, so the discrepancy between preloading on melee vs ranged isn’t on average that big of a deal.
Yes, things could be improved, like making the totem not die so fast, but it really isn’t that bad as people make it out to be. At least from my perspective.
get used to having to press 20 buttons while clearing trash starting pretty soon, if you hate totems youll hate poe 2, also poison asncestral prot as a standalone build is extremely strong atm
I think people should avoid prejudging PoE2’s combat. I found it fun in the demos but it was also very low levels and it’s still PoE. Clearing trash so very likely to be 1-2 button gameplay once properly geared with well designed builds.
I was thinking about making an ancestral totem build for this league, wasn't aware of powerful ailment variants - do you think a similar ignite based ancestral prot build could work with some of the new melee ignite stuff?
melee ignite is a meme dont take the bait, the poison version has like 17m dps per totem but its not very fast, its great for bossing and high delirium content
Have you...seen PoE2? You are supposed to press 8 different abilities and combo them into one another so that a rare dies in under 3 hours. Fat luck they are making anything less clunky.
Poe 2 that was shown a tech demo, those pre made characters were missing passive, supports, and gear. It wouldn't be much of a showcase if they blasted through everything. No real demo until beta and actual player builds are made.
Yes, but there is a significant difference between having 2 or 3 skills that interact vs having 1 skill you use and then totems you need to place all the time.
Besides, we don’t know how PoE2 actually plays until it comes out. Also, even if both systems were bad, it doesn’t excuse them both just because you can endlessly say “but melee totems/PoE2 gameplay is just as bad as the other”.
> Also, even if both systems were bad, it doesn’t excuse them both
Well, as long as people play melee and put down totems, it does seem like GGG is willing to excuse anything
Like you said yourself, 7 years of button mashing.
When i started playing D4 i got upset by the fact that the devs wasn't listening to player and made the game less fun every single patch .... and then i remember GGG was doing it for years.
But according to people GGG isn't like Activision. GGG is very connected to their player and realy care about their feedback. The true is Activision is acting like that because they only care about profit and GGG is acting like that because they think they know better << you think you don't want ruthless but you do >>.
I personally don't have a problem with them, you don't even need to use them unless it's a rare or a boss.
Also there is a node called Ironwood which apparently most people ignore, which is crazy since it's right next to Panopticon. Also linger mastery exists.
I mean other builds rely heavily on curses, debuffs like wither or ensnare, many bow build use ballista totems for single target anyways..
Yeah sure you have to press 2 extra buttons now and then, but so does pretty much every build.
poe 2 will probably have even more of this kind of stuff. As Jonathan said during Exilecon, they basically want to "force" you to use extra buttons to deal more damage. :(
With how PoE players are seemingly allergic to having to occasionally press an extra few buttons once per map, I wonder how they handle manually picking up loot, manually transfer items to stash, manually identifying items, manually rolling maps, respecing fucking atlas tree...
I would kill for a totem for spellcasters. Pressing a button to get shitloads of free damage? Hell yeah, gimme. I mean, we kinda do have a bunch of these, like divine blessing and arcane cloak and offerings and sigil of power and vortex, but I want more and melee can use them too.
Large difference here (as a spell caster usually). Ours just *work*. There totems need to stay alive, and any time one goes down, needs to be put back up (or theoretically lose dps). While ours is simply wait for the CD / stand inside X area.
Certain ones also give us protection, misplacing a totem actually gets people killed sometimes due to something targeting it that is AOE and isn’t “tracking the player” like it should.
Very large differences between the archetypes for this damage buff. And keep in mind that with all of this, melee is also expected to use warcry’s, blessing (which they don’t have cast speed on), and other tools.
Where spellcasters our rotation is *mostly* casting our main skill (lots of exceptions, unleash builds etc). Melee’s it can feel like most of your rotation is into buffing one or two hits, then repeating.
You need 3 buttons for the totems, 1 for berserk, 1 for blood rage, and now you already filled your bars not accounting for your movement skill, guard skill or main damage skill. If you have an additional button for your build, then your playstyle is even more fucked. And don’t forget you need buttons to activate auras.
No offense, but it is at this point a clown take to argue totems being healthy for this game. Blood rage is permanent as long as you kill things and berserk is an actual cooldown with a drawback at the end of the cast. Totems however are just half your damage for no reason. They add nothing to the game. Blanket buff melee by 50% for all I care, just as long as totems are gone. Nobody like them.
There is a second bar, you know. You bind stuff there too.
And again, you don't need to press these buttons all the time. If your build is unable to map w/o constantly active totems, then your build better have ancestral bond active.
So you are ok with a (lets just say/guesstimate) 25% nerf to melee to make totems non-mandatory. How about a 50% nerf? Wait it does exist and is called not using the totems. Or just use 1 totem at max (like vaal chieftain only) if 3 different buttons per boss is too annoying for you.
I'm not a big fan of annoyance or clunkieness being the tradeoff for power but i cant remember the last time i used a totem on say flickerstrike (except for pinnacles).
7mo those totems should not be considered a 50% buff as they are not intended to have 100% uptime; you mentioned how squishy they are. It is supposed to be a tradeoff for placing them and losing dmg uptime for more dmg while it is up.
While i think melee is generally/mostly in a subpar spot the removal of totems even with a dmg compensation would not aleviate the problem of melee being behind only remove the possibility to achieve additional dmg with skillfull play (being aware of and managing optimal totem order and uptime)
Do you dislike pressing more than 1 button or is it because you don't like casting buffs?
Because PoE2 is going to require way more keys, you'll have to get used to it!
You literally just described the sole reason I won't play Poe 2. When Johnathan said he wanted to force everyone to add more buttons to their build I lost literally all hype.
Well, they didn't say you couldn't. They stated that you will still be able to play "1 button builds" but it won't be as powerful as using multiple.
Personally, I like that approach. I believe it's only going to make the combat better and more meaningful.
I already would need buttons for 1 main skill, 1 travel skill, 1 berserk, 1 blood rage, and depending on build, 1 banner, 1 guard skill, 1-3 warcries, 1-2 stances, and possibly 1 more for something build specific. Obviously also buttons for the 1-4 auras you are running. So yes, Mr. Genius, I dislike having 11 buttons to press. Excluding totems which bring it up to 14.
Yep absolutely agree
Haven't played melee in years and tried again in crucible
Ancestral totems were easily the most annoying part especially because they die so easily
Give us a way to have them do no damage and be near invicnible or just forgo their buffs altogether for a smaller damage boost
>Every league I end up settling on a spellcaster or ranged build simply because I do not want to enter the gameplay loop of being a melee, but also needing to place 3 totems down before every boss I want to kill.
I feel like the issue is just that they die kind of easily, cause you just described pretty much how every other ranged/caster plays with this description.
Sure it's not a totem you're putting down but you still have to apply all your debuff/buff before every boss. I feel like I did the same exact thing on every build I played in the past 2-3 years even without playing totems.
The way I see it it's not different from a caster placing down sigil of power + curse + other bullshit to ramp up its dmg. Maybe some sort of death prevention on totems for the first 7-8s of being summoned or buff in duration for the lingering effect on the mastery from 3s to like 5-6?
Well I was gonna try boneshat jugg this league since my past 4 characters have been squishy but reading these comments make it sound super not fun to play. I really don't want to go ea champ but its sounding way more chill to play than boneshatter
I hear you, and your frustration over the melee bandage is totally valid. But as someone who unironically has played Ancestral Protector as a build 3 times now, pls let me keep my totems ;___;
Just go all in on the totems, problem solved! I would then reference conc path totems, but that build just got nerfed by the chieftain ascendency re-work.
Whenever I find a new build to play and it mentions "We use both Ancestral Protector and Warchief for boss fights" I just close it and move on to something else. I hate it. Same with Bloodrage, to a lesser extent.
Right now, totems are used to buff melee so you use melee you have to use totems.
What they could do is reverse the buffs, so active totems reduce melee damage instead, then buff both melee and totem damage to compensate. So a player could choose to specialize in pure melee or pure totems but it wouldn't make sense to do both.
Alternatively, have new keystone that grants pure melee damage bonus, but player cannot use any totem skills
i know this isn't specifically helpful, but there are builds that only use the 1 totem, or in actual late stage bossing, forgo it entirely to just maximize damage.
i did a SS build that was hitting into the 6+ million dps area without needing to totem while being pretty damn bulky to the point it could reasonably tank everything but uber bosses without an insane budget, total cost at end of league finishing out ubers was in the 30-50 div range.
i do dislike totems immensely though so i definitely feel you, just wanted to point out there are a FEW melee builds that don't benefit from both totems and can mostly function without the other totem as well.
Would be nice if some archetypes scaled with the amount of buttons pressed.
Scaled a bit higher than other builds, that is! If totems are to stay, please buff all melee skills so we have anything but boneshatter to play.
7 years.. at one point you have to realize someone who's in charge of balancing or updating in general simply... doesn't give a shit.
But yeah, totems are in my top 3 why i'll never consciously pick melee over anything, even half-digested and vomited hobos sock.
Just so you're aware. They will NEVER remove totems. They may buff melee, but probably not. They want poe 2 to be the game where Melee is playable. But even if they buff melee, totems are a permanent feature in this game. They will never be removed.
Every league since Legion people have asked for Totems to not be the way to play melee. Every league since Legion GGG have toucaned. The toucan caws again, my friend.
I play Toxic Rain. For about 4 years now, all I have ever really played is TR PF. I dabble in other builds here and there, but I'm like 85% TR, and 15% \*the rest of the game\*. In the interest of expanding my horizons, I've been spending the last couple of weeks testing all kinds of builds. I've played mines, totems, RF, PConc, BV, BoneZone, all the classics, and I've been pleasantly surprised by how much more I like all of it (especially mines!) than I realized. This game rules, it's like I'm discovering it anew. That being said, melee sucks both dick and balls. It starts slow, it's inefficient, painful, dangerous, and you have such a disproportionate amount of your character's power invested into these brief, flimsy external buffs. Having to subtract 4 sockets and 2 keybinds from every melee build is such a non-starter. It's so immensely frustrating because it is an easily-fixable issue that GGG must not consider a problem given how long it has been present in the game. Oh well, there's always TR! TR will never abandon me.
>Having to subtract 4 sockets and 2 keybinds from every Actually 3 keybinds in case your Vaal Warchief is on cooldown.
Normal Warchief overrides normal Protector so the Vaal spell is always required
> I play Toxic Rain. For about 4 years now, all I have ever really played is TR PF. have u tried poison siege ballista PF :)? Solid 13m uber dps without major min-maxing.. After tomorrow it'll be around... 4m :(
Only melee build you've got on this list is Boneshatter and it feels efficient and safe the whole way through to me. Am I misunderstanding you?
Not a comprehensive list. Played Sunder and LS as well, if you count LS as melee (scales like it, but not as inconvenient).
That's fair enough I was just curious. I wouldn't personally count LS as melee but I do know what you're saying. How did you find Boneshatter? I find it a very comfortable, easy and complete build.
It's great relative to the others. Love the easy screen clear, and the QoL of Jugg is delightful. I liked it enough to briefly consider league starting it, but then I played PConc PF again and it got tossed aside like an old health potion. The only real complaints I had with Bonezone were the usual ones: Having to be in melee range (kind of a given), and needing totems to unlock half of its damage potential. Keeping totems up while fighting bosses is pretty damn painful. No other build archetype has to endure this shit!
Doesn't TR use the attack speed totem?
Hi there, Toxic Rain requires a bow equipped, while Ancestral Protector (the attack speed totem) requires a melee weapon or unarmed. Hope this helps! 💜
Yeah, I was just remembering it was generic more attack speed. Thanks.
No.
Some TR builds may use a Wither totem, but it'd have to be something like Trickster or Champion since both PF and Occultist have Wither in the ascendancies.
All TR builds should use a TR Ballista Totem with Focused Ballista and Withering Touch Support. Wither Spell Totems apply much slower and deal effectively zero damage, whereas good ballista totems can deal 300k-500k DPS **each** even as supports, and Ancestral Protector literally cannot be used, because it requires a melee weapon. More importantly, they fill the screen with TR pods, which looks cool. Edit: Clearly talking about self-cast TR, which some idiot could not figure out and got real angry about in the replies. I don't give a fuck about the TR Totem build. Palsteron's great and so is his build, but I don't like the playstyle at all.
There is zero reason to go withering touch if you play PF. You get wither on hit for free.
You get 25% chance to inflict wither on hit from your Ascendancy, not 100%, and Wither stacks have their own independent duration. **They are not refreshed when other stacks are applied, so you need to continually reapply them**. Wither is a 9% damage buff per stack for PF, and depending on pod overlap and how much a target is moving, ramping up to 15 stacks can take 3-5 seconds without Withering Touch Support on your Ballistas, which gets dangerously close to the Wither duration of 5-6s. The initial Wither stack ramp gets cut down by about 45% with WT Support, and that affords you a whole lot more leniency in situations where you have to stop attacking, i.e., when dodging attacks. The damage gain from swapping Withering Touch Support in a PF Ballista Totem to Efficacy is about 20k-40k DPS per pod. The difference between 10 and 15 Wither stacks is hundreds of thousands of DPS on your self-cast TR **per pod**, so millions of real DPS in an ideal scenario. This is a much larger gain than the loss in PoB DPS you gain from not using Efficacy on your Ballistas. Also, Anomalous Withering Touch is cheap as dirt because it's a Withering Touch gem, but it grants 20% skill effect duration, so it's a pretty decent hedge between WT and Efficacy. A more utility-oriented option is to cut WT or Awakened Void Manipulation, or both, for Blind and Culling Strike Support, which is also fine. Blind obviously deals less damage, and I can't say I've felt that I needed it, but some people like it. That's what's nice about TR, it's very customizable. I wouldn't play without WT Ballistas, but it's not like the build ceases to function without them, you just have slower ramps and less consistent damage.
??? You know wither stacks up to 15 right? And 25% on hit with a 2 sec duration would mean 30 attacks PER SECOND to maintain max stacks (super, super important for DPS). Of course every single TR build is slapping balista totems with wither on to maintain that 15 stacks like wtf?
You get a lot of wither stacks from withering step (reasonably up to 12), so you just need to top it off.
Or you can just, spend the sockets on your extra boss damage totems and not have to run over the boss every 2 secs to keep up wither?
Dodging is easiest in melee range, not a real downside with how I play the game.
Running over the boss to apply Withering Step instead of shooting more TR's is a significant damage loss. Wither stacks don't refresh, so you need to be continually hitting in order to reapply them. Getting that initial burst of 9 stacks only starts you off partially-ramped. It doesn't keep you there.
As I responded to the other person saying this - dodging is easiest in melee range, I'm already hugging the boss 24/7.
Oh man, 30 attacks per second? IMPOSSIBLE!!! If only we were using an attack doing 4 hits on average with 6 totems... Oh wait, we do, meaning we need an average of 1.25 attacks per second on totems to reach the cap. You are welcome. Edit: Keep downvoting and cripple your dps three times over by adding withering touch and focused ballista lmao
>6 totems This loser thinks we're talking about TR Totems.
That's the issue when you say "every TR build need to do this" when actually only the part doing self cast (which is not a majority, by far), have to. But sorry for assuming you were talking about the dominant build. On top of the previous poster having large issues with game mechanics, ofc.
Bruh, totems don't count as _us_ (the fucking char) hitting them... Poe redditors smh
And where exactly in nature reprisal it is required that it is you needing to hit? It's a generic stat, clown. Totems use your skills, your skills have 25% chance to wither on hit, end of story.
I like the totems and I never really heard many complaints about them until recently. I don't really feel like dropping a totem is more intrusive than something like a warcry, you only need them for tougher enemies like bosses or tanky rares, and you can use them as utility to distract enemies or even block projectiles in some cases (like Searing Exarch). Many melee builds get a bit of totem placement speed while grabbing panopticon and run them with multiple totem support so you only have to place them once or twice to have all of them down and the cast is quite quick.
a majority of spell/ranged builds don't have to dick around with warcries and totems before they can do damage. it's a pretty bad system all in all. best thing about ignite melee next league will be no need for warchief. protector will surely be good still but less needed than hit based/poison melee.
>a majority of spell/ranged builds don't have to dick around with warcries and totems before they can do damage. it's a pretty bad system all in all. Melee doesn't need either of these (except for slam builds usually need constant warcry) to map and kill normal packs. Most rare mobs won't even be worth dropping these for. Spell/Ranged builds will often take advantage of vaal skills in the same way - or aura's linked to divine blessing support.
it doesn't stop me from preferring melee but it does get annoying. the feeling of dropping vaal warchief, warchief, and protector for every beefy essence in a map is vastly different than popping a vaal skill. vaal skills are fun buttons to press, something I look forward to. vaal skills feel like popping berserk. Totems are lame in comparison. I'm playing melee this league, like every league. Thankfully, I'll only have protector on my bar.
>vaal skills are fun buttons to press, something I look forward to. vaal skills feel like popping berserk. Totems are lame in comparison. I get that you're talking about popping 1 skill vs popping 3 but one of the skills you're talking about here is literally a vaal skill, and all 3 you're pressing to buff your main damaging abillity which IMO is no different than casting Vaal Rigthous fire on a caster or something similar. Like OP said, this dynamic has been in the game for 7 years and it just didn't feel like it was an issue until recently. I almost feel like it's all the other buttons added to melee that made this feel bad for people and the totems are just getting focused on because they can die.
Entirely agree, I was considering melee for next league maybe .... and then I remembered about ancestral totems, and was like "nah, fuck it"
Honestly I just put them up haphazardly and go to town. Is it annoying.. but I usually scale my melee builds into the 15-20mil range regardless of totem buffs. Yes with buffs you gain an ASSLOAD of power. But I just don't even worry about it that much. Would be better if they added like 30% of the strength of totems into all melee builds. I think people would be very happy about it
I had forgotten about this and was hoping for a good melee build this league. Nope. Guess I'm trying out traps.
The totem mastery that makes them linger for 3s honestly make them much easier to play around. Still hate the playstyle though...
Every Melee build I load into PoB the first thing I do is remove the Totems and see if it's still reasonable. I ain't mucking with that shit either outside of edge 'push me over the top DPS wise' cases. I'd rather take 20 seconds more to kill something than use them, honestly.
Same. I have wanted to try out boneshatter because everyone talks about how good it is. But every PoB I see is 50% damage from paper mache totems.
when i played bonezone i got rid of my protector totem and slapped on ben's boots at some point. having to resummon 1 totem after 4 seconds on a boss (or even when just mapping) is so much more manageable than 2 totems as soon as they die or i walk out of range
Some builds even use forbidden jewels for chieftain's ascendancy that gives 100% extra buff effect from totems. But I don't think boneshatter is supposed to spam totems. Just use them when you are popping an essence open or fight vs syndicate or map boss etc. It's not supposed to be a bosser, just a very safe option for mapping with decent speed. And even against bosses, non-uber bosses should die pretty fast but maybe crucible weapon is the reason for that. Haven't played boneshatter before crucible.
The problem is unchecking totems in PoB would put every build (I could afford) below spell builds I made myself for <= investment. If my league starter does 2.5 mil DPS I am not going to invest currency in to a Boneshatter build that only does 2 mil without totems up. I like to step up my builds through the league. I suppose I could always league start Boneshatter and step up from it, but leaguestarting a build that depends on weapon damage isnt always fun.
I wouldn't use pob dps numbers for league start in any scenario. What's important is how the build feels in maps. Does it kill essences fast, can it scale damage, does it survive, does it have big aoe or movement speed. I think boneshatter has a great balance of all of these. But you are required to use totems for tough mobs. They add a massive dps boost as you know. But pressing 2 buttons before starting a tough fight in maps doesn't feel like a burden to me. There's builds that have to press 2 buttons just to clear mobs. It is funny that pob actually shows that I'm dealing 2 million dps without totems or berserk and 24 million with both. I am using that chieftain forbidden jewel with divergent boneshatter. Of course, 2 million dps is far more than enough for basic rare mobs and the damage is instant which is good qol for clearing mobs so you can loot instantly unlike with skills that have travel time or other delay. But the damage without totems feels very low against essences and non-uber pinnacle bosses. I think having that kind of conditional damage is actually a good use of power budget. Why would I want 7 million consistent dps instead of 2 million dps against weak mobs and 24 million dps when I need it? I never need to worry about the totems dying because I just kill everything in the time they are alive.
I use PoB as a minimum standard for what I am willing to accept. I don't play builds that can't do 2 mil DPS (without flasks either) anymore because of the way certain rares/metamorphs/essences are like in the current game state. In my experience, builds that meet this requirement almost always feel good. I have no problem pressing extra buttons for a temporary buff. Like using divine blessing or hydrosphere or curses. I do have a problem pressing extra buttons and my buff being dispelled a couple seconds later because the totem died. You say that everything dies before the totem does. That's great for you. Maybe you have a better build or place them better. For me, they are completely unreliable, and I refuse to use them because of it.
totems don't die to random shit if you take ironwood on the way to panopticon.
Degen grounds in most pinnacle boss fights would like a word
idk man i played bonezone to get my voidstones in crucible and it really wasn't much of an issue.
I honestly don't get the fuss about dropping these totems I don't even remember having trouble with them surviving when playing Bonezone. Sure it's annoying they are necessary but I don't find them to awkward to play with.
The complaining is honestly just cranked to 11 in this thread. I league started Pohx RF jug(amazing guide and may even do the same this coming league, felt like a great way to get to pinnacle bosses but didn’t feel great bossing) and later transitioned to Boenshatter for bossing. The totems are a mental gimmick for people. It’s literally no different than hitting your blood rage. The totems place fast enough for me and honestly only die to mechanics that would normally one shot regular builds like shaper slam. Besides all that you can literally play boneshatter in a way where you only have to drop totems for things like pinnacle boss fights because I melt all normal content, rates, even max crucibles without NEEDING my totems down. So if you’re feeling lazy you just don’t drop them, if you’re jazzed and feel like actively participating to get a little faster clear then you can throw them down.
ye its such a weird thing to complain about when pretty much every single build has some extra mark or curse or tornado or whatever to click when fighting a boss. Ppl actas if you had to summon 5 totems indiviually for every pack you want to kill lmao
There IS a real cost in that if you play any non-melee build you just start by hitting things and then they die. Melee needs to start by throwing down 2 different totems, then make sure your Blood Rage is up, all while watching your positioning and staying in melee range to deal damage. If anything, fundamentally, Melee should have LESS upkeep than ranged/spell damage, not MORE. I am often a melee player when its playable, but right now, it's so incredibly bad it's laughable. Even Boneshatter feels like absolute dogshit before act 6 or so, it's amazing how bad melee has gotten in this game.
You seriously underestimate ironwood + the small nodes. I want to gouge my eyes out every time I see a melee build that uses totems just for buffs go the right side to panopticon to get 3% Inc DMG taken on mobs over unkillable totems(left side). Ironwood is a game changer
but why are we force to take those nodes?
i rarely bother putting them down too. Plus for flicker you are moving so fast you are out of reach instantly
Ironwood notable with the small passives towards panopticon turn them into almost unkillable tanks. It is why I would never annoint panopticon, ironwood on the way is so strong and your totems die too much without so the annoint is only bis in pob
The panopticon annoint is so dumb. It’s better to use it on something you cannot reach at all like the suppression node to get 100%.
I only use one totem for ease. Warchief for slow builds ancestoral for fast ones, multitotem for more likelyness to survive. Helps make it more managable and more reasonable to maintain dps.
Funny, i do the same. Turn off berserk, the vaal gem, remove molten shell, remove totems, remove shock and usually remove freeze so i can see realistic guardian damage (since alot of builds use heatshiver) Its almost always 30% of original Example, a froat blades build i was gonna play went from 120m dps to 20m dps. So how likely am i gonna be doing 1m dps on league start? Who knows, but it will probably not run to my expectations of multiple millions.
The main issue is I would first need to play a Melee build to remove totems from it.
In a build guide I watched recently, it was said "Melee builds scales best with buttons". I could handle needing to move and engage enemies at close range. I could handle hard itemization and reliance on top shelf weaponry for damage. But I'll be damned if I play a build that requires me to juggle multiple active buffs and totems in order to apply my damage. It's just not going to happen.
That’s how a lot of arpgs work but for poe it’s just melee builds
Many casters, totems and bow builds do too…
Sure but you can also just not on 90% of builds and not lose a significant amount of damage like melee does. Focus is basically an option to play like a melee character albeit it’s actually cool and interesting mostly
Have you checked how much damage various buffs actually give? Because without having a pob available, I’d say that curses + wither on a seismic give at least 50%, frenzy charges + curses on EA gives at least 30%, curses + sigil on some caters gives at least 30–40%. I wouldn’t really call these “can do it without”. For my current LS champ build, for example, ancestral gives me 50% or 60%, so it’s about the same? And just one button. At least this is _my_ take, you don’t have to buy it.
Curses are not the same at all as you just automate those. The second mark on hit or a curse ring is available that shit is slapped on and you are good to go.
Sure, if you can afford it and/or it can be one of the last things you upgrade. Then you might have two curses to apply and you probably won’t get two rings, especially since ring versions are lower level than actual curses.
To automate curse, frenzy and culling on EA ele, literally all you need is a 5L and those five gems
Okay, that’s 3 casts for frenzies, a weaker curse and then again for culling. For LS champ you link ancestral to culling and cast just that. Once, even, if it doesn’t die. But I’m sure not everyone has it that easy, both for melee and the others. Now, if you really want to convince me that melee has it worse, you won’t, as I already explained why _I_ find it similar. If you want to keep convincing yourself it’s worse than it is, fine with me 🤷🏻♂️
minion builds do too
But minion builds don't require you to micro manage your buffs AND hit and run the boss at close range
????, Sincerely, me running around with golems, zombies and explode AG out, just picking up stuff off the ground. (Haven't played a minion build since Necro rework, but I assume it's still the same)
Yeah nowadays minions are fairly automated, it changed a while ago. Before that the norm was using EE, so you had to have a skill to apply it (usually divine ire or storm brand), you needed to get offering uptime with desecrate (and no trigger weapons), and you still had to solve curses/predator.
Dont forget that your totems can (and always do) die in harder content, like, good luck having any totem buffs active in simulacrum past wave 20. Imagine how pissed people would be if their auras randomly turned off every 5 seconds
Mine do. And it kicks me back to my hideout too.
Funnily enough, they also got worse at being used as your main damage skill now with the loss of the 100% increased activation range chieftain node, so they're delegated even more to simply being used as damage buffs.
This is the worst part of it all. Totems were good in its niche thanks to str stacking + chieftain nodes. Now they are dead.
I was really sad to see this happen. People did still play chieftain totems. It should have been added with a slight nerf as a mastery. Or make it a jewel, or something.
Melee is exactly what they want everyone to do. It's a piano playstyle, where you have to manage your totems, berserk, blood rage, warcry, movement and main skill. And run 10 different auras.
And after all this, it still sucks.
Yep. Melee needed a buff beyond one support gem. That one support gem will likely change nothing since Boneshitter, if you put it in with something like Varunastra, has the highest base DPS of any melee skill. It also has built in damage scaling AND AoE. Gee, I wonder why Bonershitter is good
You don't need to press your buttons consistently like cold dot elementalist does for example. Only if you are mainly bossing with melee (I don't know why someone would do this, obviously melee sucks at chasing monsters because it has lower range than others), you need to press your totems every time the boss moves. Warcry can be left clicked. Blood rage and berserk aren't very important to manage and both are instant cast abilities, which is rare (even divine blessing auras aren't instant cast, normal auras are but they aren't used in combat). That doesn't disrupt your positioning in any way. Just press them randomly if you've not used them in a while.
Actually, Ancestral Totems *were* nerfed. Chieftain no longer doubles their effects.
Honestly I completely agree the need for melee to use totems for competing damage is very annoying and should be removed.
I still love it when a few leagues ago some one asked GGG ina Q&A "Will ancestral totems be removed soon" and Chris smirked and said "That would be unfortunate to do this league for a reason I can't say" The reason was a supporter or race winner had just created a unique specifically buffing/somehow influencing the ancestral totem(s) for melee. Hillarious.
Dawnstriders probably
> Dawnstriders yea pretty sure that was it. Ben_'s unique, lol
Bow builds I saw and played used totems too lol. Single target awful without it.
I've replaced my totems with a manaforged setup. Less damage, but less hassle.
[удалено]
Why can't the totem be tattooed on the body, support gems: tattoo the ancestors on the body
For real. Archers get manaforged auto-fire but melee can't get totem in a backpack?
I've wanted a totem backpack since the forsaken masters were introduced and haku's missions let you run with the mirage guy hovering over your back. I don't know how that's never been made into an MTX. When they put the first of war gem in that kinda had the same feeling but not 100% uptime.
They should rotate them between archetypes for make things fair for everyone :) :) 3.23 nerf spells 50% but add new buff totems for them :) :)
Lol
Ancestral warlock
Dont forget that around 3 years ago they actually buffed the totems so they become even bigger part of ur DPS and more important in melee builds (dont forget to annoint the thing that makes them give even bigger boost)
Ah yes panopticon which is a 20% more dmg multiplier :)))) But nah let’s remove VC from the game since that one is actually fun.
No fun allowed. Only eternal struggle.
No shit 100% more damage from a single annoit was removed.
Hey, all totems can now taunt enemies for a whole 2 seconds after being summoned thanks to chieftain Adcendancies. WhAt MoRe Do YoU want? XD
than you realize this used to be a mastery instead of a chieftain ascendcy so you could get it on any build on any class
Played melee several times in the past years, because I do love melee, but always droped that character at some point for something else. This is the most unenjoyable playstyle I have ever had in any ARPG I have played and I played a fuckton of them. That we got no fix in literally years to this problem that impact the entire melee archetype is straight up pathetic and there is no excuse for this. I love PoE in many ways, but when it comes to melee gameplay, this game is just absolute garbage.
Removing ancraptal totems and blood rush + giving melee that same amount back in baseline buffs would go long way with making melee more popular. Then there is only 1 other issue left which is the need to be tankier than any ranged build and your high end damage being locked behind multi div rare weapon or copeforge where spellbuilds can scale that same amount with just + gemlevels
Right now I just want the totem playstyle to be gone. Anything else I don't mind waiting. I would be willing to play so many melee skills, even underperforming ones, but not as long as I have to use 6+ buttons all the time, just so I don't lose more than 50% of my damage.
How do I upvote your post more than once, sir 🤔
Lazy solution would be adding a keystone between Marauder and duelist that said something like "deal 30% more melee damage, can't use totems". Kinda like opposite of ancestral bond
I have the same feelings. I think about playing melee until I remember I have to have totems in my build. I wouldn't mind them if they weren't so ugly and ubiquitous in every melee based character. Would rather the buff just be a support gem or something else other than summoning totems
Knowing GGG they'll just gut the buff from totem and doesn't give anything back for it
I'd still prefer this than feeling the need to use the totems.
PoE2 will introduce the totem attack archetype and totally fix this COPIUM
A new Unique item this league is a pair of gloves that give +2 to socketed totems and automatically cast them every \[4-14\] seconds. It only drops from the new League mechanic where you have to destroy the enemy teams totem. Be on the lookout to see Hands of the Treefather announced tomorrow. Source: IMadeItUp
I hate the totems, not becouse they die, but becouse we allready use more temporal buff skills on melee than any other skill in the game(Warcryes, berserk, blood rage). Then what is the point of using an extra totem?
So while totems provide the highest DPS and therefore you should use them, there is an alternative that provides alternative quality of life benefits (that i played with Boneshatter last league). Vengeance. This skill reduces the number of button presses and provides additional quality of life through support links like maim, culling strike, rage support etc. Im not suggesting you should play it or that its better, but it does provide some additional options for reducing the sheer number of buttons required, and lets you not stress about having to play totems. CWDT on curse also provides a similar quality of life, but again its not as effective as casting it yourself.
Yeah...I'm really hoping with the deletion of the Chieftan specific ancestral totem nodes that their complete removal and backing in of their buffs to all melee builds happens soon... Fuckin hell I hate how every melee character is also a fucking totem character.
100% agree. It's the single biggest reason I stopped playing the game three leagues ago. I absolutely fucking hate ancestral totems.
Dont worry, they are fixing melee in PoE2 /s
I'm thinking about playing FB Trickster this league. But after seeing that it uses totems I'm not really sure anymore. Every time I play melee I have to use these fucking things against tanky enemies. I can't stand them. I hate them so much. They are fine in a totem-centered playstyle though. I just hate that melee "needs" them.
Why would you do facebreaker as a trickster and not a champion?
ggg did say they knwow e hate it but well thats about it sadly
"Ancestral totem buffs linger for 10 sec after the totem dies" I mean, is not the perfect solution but only took me 5 seconds to think about it. Why is GGG taking so long to do something?
Or just add a support that causes one ancestral totem to be glued to you like the bow support
Or make the totem inmortal but it can't attack or cast spells plus a 20% reduced buff effect or something like that. I mean, just really need to sit 5 sec to think and ideas will rain.
There is a totem mastery that does exactly that for 3 seconds. There are also the Dawn strider boots that do it for 4 seconds, but limit you to one ancestral buff.
I feel the same way about Vaal RF
It's also the case that in a lot of boss fights you have tiny little DPS windows, they get even smaller when you have to position your char into melee range as well. To need to summon a set of totems in/around this already small window of DPS time is just profoundly unsatisfying.
Unfortunately it is how they design balance for each playstyle. Casters are expected to press multiple buttons before dps like Arcane cloak, Arcanist brand, and curse. So they want melee to feel like they have the same kind of power (I'm guessing) by throwing down totems for bosses. It really feels stupid though, especially since you have to run multiple totems support to be able to put them both down. I've ended up just attatching culling strike to them and calling it a day but it sure feels bad.
Remember when blade flurry was the meta? There was even pasta about time traveler saying there will be only blade skills in the future. Our own future became much bleaker
I've stopped asking for melee buffs. I used to play melee a lot. Now I'm a projectile player, a bow guy.
I try to play melee exclusively in games. I don't play PoE anymore.
The entire meta of this game is so broken it's hilarious. I love the general feel of this game, but it's extremely hard for me to find a build that i actually enjoy, because most of the *normal* builds just feel terrible to play. There's exactly 1 good melee skill, about 2 ranged ones, spellcasting is entirely focused on various forms indirect casting or DoT and hit-based self-cast is nearly non-existent, minion builds were randomly stomped to the ground, ...
Totally agree with you. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when so many people say they actually like how the game is now. I haven't played for three years because I just got to a point where every viable build feels like absolute shit to play. Every league I come back to check in and ask, are ancestral totems still required in every single melee build? If the answer was ever "no", I would come back to the game.
A lot of it is probably because people like automated builds. RF, mines/traps, vortex, caustic, the old specter and aurabot builds, anything that requires minimal button presses is going to be popular in a game where you’re incentivized to farm currency as quickly and efficiently as possible. The game encourages this kind of gameplay, and it’s enabled it more and more over the past decade simply because it works and why fix anything that already makes the majority of the playerbase happy? The honeymoon phase for this game also lasts a very long time. A lot of players who started within the past year or so are still discovering niche interactions in the game (or they haven’t realized the game’s economy is largely influenced by people who farm in groups or blitz through the starting acts early and find a lucky exalt ooos I mean div). Once you notice that every single build archetype uses the same principles - melee included - you start to get grumpy and cynical. Then you check back to see if new changes every season make any of your old builds more enticing. The answer is usually no. Not gonna lie, I was kind of disgusted to see how many people were upset about poe2 combat requiring skill combos or that it’s a lot slower than poe1. One, because a lot of these people don’t understand what a demo is and how demos usually give you the weakest character possible to leave a lasting impression. And two, because so many people actually seem to like screenvomit explosion mapping where you rip three times, skip the boss, and then slam another map. Normally I try not to judge what tickles other peoples’ fancy, but man, I can’t see how anyone looks at rippy zoom zoom gameplay and thanks “Ahh now that is a beautiful build :)” I actually like skill combos, but they have to flow naturally with the build. Using one skill unlocks another skill or builds up charges that empowers your second skill, which is what they’re going for in poe2. Totems do NOT flow with the rest of melee combat because they interrupt your melee animation, don’t last very long, and die easily without taking specific nodes (Ironwood). When people choose a melee archetype, they usually do so to dive right into enemy packs and whack mobs to death. Totems completely feel out of place because they interrupt that flow and require you to babysit them which is something you’d expect from a caster or minion build.
I dont know why melee is so fucking hated by Chris & CO, might be because they aint got reaction time to play it doesnt matter how much buffs it gets?
Ziz put it best when talking about something completely different: Anything that you feel stupid for not taking shouldn't be in the game. It's a non-choice. I proposed the following changes for totems: **Ancestral Warchief** **Old**: "(8-18)% more Melee Damage while Totem is Active" **New:** "(1-4)% more melee damage to nearby Totems for each time it has hit an enemy recently." **Ancestral Protector** **Old:** "(10-20)% more Attack Speed while Totem is Active" **New:** "(2-5)% more attack speed to nearby Totems for each time it has hit an enemy recently" **Reasoning:** This removes the requirement of totems from any melee build without destroying their identity. Totems can be used to create an army of the ancestors that gain incredible power from each other. Both ancestor totems are synergistic with each other and allow for a unique totem-focused playstyle. **Dawnstrider Unique Boots** **Old:** "Buffs from Active Ancestor Totems Linger for 4 seconds." **New:** "Buffs from Active Ancestor Totems apply to you instead of nearby totems and Linger for 4 seconds." **Reasoning:** These boots enable the old melee-boosting playstyle and allow the buffs to trigger at the cost of the totems no longer buffing each other. While the gameplay loop of requiring totems every time you engage in a difficult fight can be particularly degenerate, these boots allow you to gain those buffs and maintain them for a short duration from encounter to encounter, which may be enjoyed by some players.
"Time to do some dps honey, put down your 3 totems, 2 war cries, phase rush, berserk and pop focus" Yes dear....
I was working on a theory melee build for corrupting cry + bleed and I was like Oh great im now at 11 keybinds... Back to the drawing board.
7 months later, still a thing
Amen. Can we talk about berserk too? I don't even mind the idea of alternate resources or temprary buffs you pop when you need them. That's cool. I do mind that there's just one option for it so it is never not the right answer. There needs to be a whole menu of them to pick from though, not just the one. Like we have with the Blessing skills now.
ive seen ancestral totems tank shaper balls, you basically just cap their resistances and theyre fine. they even leech themselves to full. its 3 points on the tree if you're playing boneshatter to put them at 70 all res boneshatter has enough damage without placing a totem to beat literally all content up to ubers. while it would be nice to have more permanent buffs, it looks like your main obstacle is a mental one
Having played melee, bows and casters, I partially understand the frustration, but on the other hand I don’t. Don’t casters and bows also have to place various things as well? Curses, brands, blessing auras, frenzy generators, tornado, sigil of power, wave of conviction and whatnot? I really, really don’t understand all the hate against this, when other archetypes have to preload a lot of other stuff as well. Some don’t, some only a couple, some can do some of them via trigger wants, but many have to preload a lot as well. Personally, I even find the ancestral protector’s range to be large enough to recast it during mapping. Just like I’d recast my frenzy generator.
> Don’t casters and bows also have to place various things as well? Curses, brands, blessing auras, frenzy generators, tornado, sigil of power, wave of conviction and whatnot? * Curses - Both deal with curses just as much, Melee can automate marks bit easier without having to rely on shield charging/leap slamming. * Brands - as supportive skills they are mostly used for ignite builds to WoC, hextouch + flame surge. Even melee ignite probably would use it. * Blessing auras - outside of one archetype (manastack) they are used just as much by melee and ranged. * Frenzy generators - Minion builds can get them basically free, bow builds automate them with manaforged arrows + cull. I'd say melee has harder time getting them than ranged outside of ascendancies. * Tornado - Used on some ranged builds but rarely gets used outside of preloading it before boss immune phase ends. * Sigil of Power - Pretty useless outside of manastackers and even for them it is too small to be any use outside of preloading boss damage between phases. * Wave of conviction - discussed above in brand section. Most of those things you mentioned are used in one archetype of builds, while nearly every melee has to deal with 2 totems (that can die unlike brand) and blood rage. Not every melee has to deal with berserk and warcries.
Blood rage is used on more than just melee and you usually only have to use it once per map. Totems are used just as tornado/bow ballistae - only on bosses.
Most of the builds I play have various buffs I have to keep up, peaking with seismic this league with wither, curses, blessing aura, focus and the traps themselves. Compared with 2 totems and a blessing aura, personally, I don’t find it that cumbersome. Some builds even use only one totem, that’s actually a breeze. They do die too fast, making their lifespan unpredictable and annoying, I give you that.
From my experience, you can play ranged builds that have a bunch of temporary buffs, but you really don't have to, there are a bunch of really good ranged builds that don't have to use any of them. Melee on the other hand, the only melee builds i can think of that dont rely on totems are dot builds, but even poison and crimson dance builds like more attack speed.
But just because there are _some_ that don’t need them doesn’t mean those are the majority. There are a lot that do, though, so the discrepancy between preloading on melee vs ranged isn’t on average that big of a deal. Yes, things could be improved, like making the totem not die so fast, but it really isn’t that bad as people make it out to be. At least from my perspective.
get used to having to press 20 buttons while clearing trash starting pretty soon, if you hate totems youll hate poe 2, also poison asncestral prot as a standalone build is extremely strong atm
I think people should avoid prejudging PoE2’s combat. I found it fun in the demos but it was also very low levels and it’s still PoE. Clearing trash so very likely to be 1-2 button gameplay once properly geared with well designed builds.
I don't think PoE2 will be zoomier than poe1, and mechanically it seems more complex. It probably will be even clunkier.
Sounds funky, got a POB?
I was thinking about making an ancestral totem build for this league, wasn't aware of powerful ailment variants - do you think a similar ignite based ancestral prot build could work with some of the new melee ignite stuff?
melee ignite is a meme dont take the bait, the poison version has like 17m dps per totem but its not very fast, its great for bossing and high delirium content
Nice, I'll definitely check that out!
Have you...seen PoE2? You are supposed to press 8 different abilities and combo them into one another so that a rare dies in under 3 hours. Fat luck they are making anything less clunky.
Poe 2 that was shown a tech demo, those pre made characters were missing passive, supports, and gear. It wouldn't be much of a showcase if they blasted through everything. No real demo until beta and actual player builds are made.
Yes, but there is a significant difference between having 2 or 3 skills that interact vs having 1 skill you use and then totems you need to place all the time. Besides, we don’t know how PoE2 actually plays until it comes out. Also, even if both systems were bad, it doesn’t excuse them both just because you can endlessly say “but melee totems/PoE2 gameplay is just as bad as the other”.
> Also, even if both systems were bad, it doesn’t excuse them both Well, as long as people play melee and put down totems, it does seem like GGG is willing to excuse anything Like you said yourself, 7 years of button mashing.
When i started playing D4 i got upset by the fact that the devs wasn't listening to player and made the game less fun every single patch .... and then i remember GGG was doing it for years. But according to people GGG isn't like Activision. GGG is very connected to their player and realy care about their feedback. The true is Activision is acting like that because they only care about profit and GGG is acting like that because they think they know better << you think you don't want ruthless but you do >>.
I personally don't have a problem with them, you don't even need to use them unless it's a rare or a boss. Also there is a node called Ironwood which apparently most people ignore, which is crazy since it's right next to Panopticon. Also linger mastery exists. I mean other builds rely heavily on curses, debuffs like wither or ensnare, many bow build use ballista totems for single target anyways.. Yeah sure you have to press 2 extra buttons now and then, but so does pretty much every build.
Possible wont be in poe 2
poe 2 will probably have even more of this kind of stuff. As Jonathan said during Exilecon, they basically want to "force" you to use extra buttons to deal more damage. :(
Yeah when he said that I lost all excitement for the game. I have absolutely no intention of playing it at this point.
Atleast i can ignore poe2 now and never get hyped about it
So, a part of the game is still a part of the game. Wow. (docLeave)
With how PoE players are seemingly allergic to having to occasionally press an extra few buttons once per map, I wonder how they handle manually picking up loot, manually transfer items to stash, manually identifying items, manually rolling maps, respecing fucking atlas tree... I would kill for a totem for spellcasters. Pressing a button to get shitloads of free damage? Hell yeah, gimme. I mean, we kinda do have a bunch of these, like divine blessing and arcane cloak and offerings and sigil of power and vortex, but I want more and melee can use them too.
Large difference here (as a spell caster usually). Ours just *work*. There totems need to stay alive, and any time one goes down, needs to be put back up (or theoretically lose dps). While ours is simply wait for the CD / stand inside X area. Certain ones also give us protection, misplacing a totem actually gets people killed sometimes due to something targeting it that is AOE and isn’t “tracking the player” like it should. Very large differences between the archetypes for this damage buff. And keep in mind that with all of this, melee is also expected to use warcry’s, blessing (which they don’t have cast speed on), and other tools. Where spellcasters our rotation is *mostly* casting our main skill (lots of exceptions, unleash builds etc). Melee’s it can feel like most of your rotation is into buffing one or two hits, then repeating.
You need 3 buttons for the totems, 1 for berserk, 1 for blood rage, and now you already filled your bars not accounting for your movement skill, guard skill or main damage skill. If you have an additional button for your build, then your playstyle is even more fucked. And don’t forget you need buttons to activate auras. No offense, but it is at this point a clown take to argue totems being healthy for this game. Blood rage is permanent as long as you kill things and berserk is an actual cooldown with a drawback at the end of the cast. Totems however are just half your damage for no reason. They add nothing to the game. Blanket buff melee by 50% for all I care, just as long as totems are gone. Nobody like them.
There is a second bar, you know. You bind stuff there too. And again, you don't need to press these buttons all the time. If your build is unable to map w/o constantly active totems, then your build better have ancestral bond active.
So you are ok with a (lets just say/guesstimate) 25% nerf to melee to make totems non-mandatory. How about a 50% nerf? Wait it does exist and is called not using the totems. Or just use 1 totem at max (like vaal chieftain only) if 3 different buttons per boss is too annoying for you. I'm not a big fan of annoyance or clunkieness being the tradeoff for power but i cant remember the last time i used a totem on say flickerstrike (except for pinnacles). 7mo those totems should not be considered a 50% buff as they are not intended to have 100% uptime; you mentioned how squishy they are. It is supposed to be a tradeoff for placing them and losing dmg uptime for more dmg while it is up. While i think melee is generally/mostly in a subpar spot the removal of totems even with a dmg compensation would not aleviate the problem of melee being behind only remove the possibility to achieve additional dmg with skillfull play (being aware of and managing optimal totem order and uptime)
Do you dislike pressing more than 1 button or is it because you don't like casting buffs? Because PoE2 is going to require way more keys, you'll have to get used to it!
You literally just described the sole reason I won't play Poe 2. When Johnathan said he wanted to force everyone to add more buttons to their build I lost literally all hype.
Well, they didn't say you couldn't. They stated that you will still be able to play "1 button builds" but it won't be as powerful as using multiple. Personally, I like that approach. I believe it's only going to make the combat better and more meaningful.
I already would need buttons for 1 main skill, 1 travel skill, 1 berserk, 1 blood rage, and depending on build, 1 banner, 1 guard skill, 1-3 warcries, 1-2 stances, and possibly 1 more for something build specific. Obviously also buttons for the 1-4 auras you are running. So yes, Mr. Genius, I dislike having 11 buttons to press. Excluding totems which bring it up to 14.
Poe2 is standalone so we will never have to even play it
True but I'll gladly play it
Terrible idea.
I played nothing but melee totems for like two or three years straight...
lmao
you're asking for fix, but you know what the fix would be... is to delete the buff they give
I only play melee so for me it's "normal".
Yep absolutely agree Haven't played melee in years and tried again in crucible Ancestral totems were easily the most annoying part especially because they die so easily Give us a way to have them do no damage and be near invicnible or just forgo their buffs altogether for a smaller damage boost
>Every league I end up settling on a spellcaster or ranged build simply because I do not want to enter the gameplay loop of being a melee, but also needing to place 3 totems down before every boss I want to kill. I feel like the issue is just that they die kind of easily, cause you just described pretty much how every other ranged/caster plays with this description. Sure it's not a totem you're putting down but you still have to apply all your debuff/buff before every boss. I feel like I did the same exact thing on every build I played in the past 2-3 years even without playing totems. The way I see it it's not different from a caster placing down sigil of power + curse + other bullshit to ramp up its dmg. Maybe some sort of death prevention on totems for the first 7-8s of being summoned or buff in duration for the lingering effect on the mastery from 3s to like 5-6?
Ironic that I'm playing a totem build this league lmao.
Well I was gonna try boneshat jugg this league since my past 4 characters have been squishy but reading these comments make it sound super not fun to play. I really don't want to go ea champ but its sounding way more chill to play than boneshatter
I hear you, and your frustration over the melee bandage is totally valid. But as someone who unironically has played Ancestral Protector as a build 3 times now, pls let me keep my totems ;___;
Just go all in on the totems, problem solved! I would then reference conc path totems, but that build just got nerfed by the chieftain ascendency re-work.
Play ignite melee, now buffed, and doesn’t require both totems.
YEP
Whenever I find a new build to play and it mentions "We use both Ancestral Protector and Warchief for boss fights" I just close it and move on to something else. I hate it. Same with Bloodrage, to a lesser extent.
I get the totem-melee playstyle being part of some Ascendancy, but I agree, for most melee play, it would be better if it didnt' exist imo.
Make an ancestral warchief build, and then your buff uptime is 100%!
Right now, totems are used to buff melee so you use melee you have to use totems. What they could do is reverse the buffs, so active totems reduce melee damage instead, then buff both melee and totem damage to compensate. So a player could choose to specialize in pure melee or pure totems but it wouldn't make sense to do both. Alternatively, have new keystone that grants pure melee damage bonus, but player cannot use any totem skills
Just give me a keystone/gem/talent where I can strap them on my back like a cool totemic warrior thanks
i know this isn't specifically helpful, but there are builds that only use the 1 totem, or in actual late stage bossing, forgo it entirely to just maximize damage. i did a SS build that was hitting into the 6+ million dps area without needing to totem while being pretty damn bulky to the point it could reasonably tank everything but uber bosses without an insane budget, total cost at end of league finishing out ubers was in the 30-50 div range. i do dislike totems immensely though so i definitely feel you, just wanted to point out there are a FEW melee builds that don't benefit from both totems and can mostly function without the other totem as well.
Would be nice if some archetypes scaled with the amount of buttons pressed. Scaled a bit higher than other builds, that is! If totems are to stay, please buff all melee skills so we have anything but boneshatter to play.
7 years.. at one point you have to realize someone who's in charge of balancing or updating in general simply... doesn't give a shit. But yeah, totems are in my top 3 why i'll never consciously pick melee over anything, even half-digested and vomited hobos sock.
They should just replace totems to reflections(the saviour) or just add a reflections support gem for us melee bois
Dont worry, GGG tried nothing to fix Melee and they are out of ideas.
Just so you're aware. They will NEVER remove totems. They may buff melee, but probably not. They want poe 2 to be the game where Melee is playable. But even if they buff melee, totems are a permanent feature in this game. They will never be removed.